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shopify today. shopify.com/promo. It's January

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the 11th, 1944. Just before

0:50

9am. We're in Verona. In

0:52

the grounds of Fort San

0:54

Procole. Across the

0:56

lawn through the snow, five

0:59

men are let out. They're

1:01

dressed in crumpled suits and

1:03

overcoats, the clothes they were

1:06

arrested in. The air is

1:08

cold, bone chilling, breath billows

1:10

in the air. Before the

1:12

high-grass verge of the fort

1:15

shooting range, five wooden school

1:17

chairs have been spaced a

1:19

few feet apart. Opposite as

1:22

a platoon of black shirt

1:24

militia men. each with a

1:26

rifle at the ready. There's

1:29

also an SS cameraman on

1:31

hand, there to record things

1:33

for posterity. There is one

1:36

final indignity. The prisoners are

1:38

made to sit with their

1:40

chest against the backrest, facing

1:43

away from the firing squad.

1:45

It's the death designated for

1:47

a traitor, to be shot

1:50

in the back. Last cigarettes

1:52

are lit. Last cigarettes are

1:54

lit. A

1:57

priest moves along the line.

1:59

Some with hands bound, pass

2:02

final letters. It's hard to

2:04

know whether the shivering is

2:07

fear or just the cold.

2:09

Since their show trial

2:11

concluded yesterday, most have

2:13

accepted their fate. Though

2:15

one has held out

2:18

hope. Praying that family

2:20

ties will spare him

2:22

the bullet. He is

2:24

Count Galliazzo Chiano. The

2:26

Duché's own son-in-law. Someone

2:29

till recently regarded

2:31

as his heir apparent apparent.

2:34

Despite the pleas of

2:36

his wife, Eda, Mussolini's

2:38

daughter, the pardon never

2:40

comes. Mussolini has a

2:42

greater loyalty. He's doing

2:44

this for his friend

2:46

Adolf Hitler. Tied to

2:49

the chair, Chiano refuses

2:51

a blindfold. As the

2:53

riflemen draw their bolts,

2:55

he performs one last

2:57

defiant. spinning

3:00

around, looking his

3:03

executioners in the eye, he

3:05

issues a cry, Vivalitalia.

3:08

From the Noiser network,

3:10

this is the final

3:12

part of the Mussolini

3:15

story. And this is

3:17

real dictators. This is

3:20

the final part of

3:22

the Mussolini story. And

3:24

this is real dictators.

3:37

Wind back to July 1943 and

3:39

it's hard to keep pace with events

3:41

in Italy. Allied troops have

3:43

landed in Sicily. Amid aerial

3:45

bombing and a fast-surrendering

3:48

army, the country is in

3:50

turmoil. Mussolini's attempt to reassert

3:53

his authority has backfired

3:55

spectacularly. The fascist Grand Council,

3:58

he convenes, ends up... voting

4:00

amount of office. That same

4:02

day, July 25th, a shell

4:05

shock Duchy visits the king

4:07

to tender his resignation, only

4:09

to be arrested, bundled away

4:11

in an ambulance. On the

4:13

streets of Italy, rumors spread.

4:16

Then, at 1045 p.m. comes

4:18

the radio announcement. His Majesty

4:20

the King Emperor has accepted

4:22

the resignation from the office

4:25

of head of the government.

4:27

His Excellency Cavalieri Benito Mussolini

4:29

and nominated as head of

4:31

the government and Cavalieri, Marshal

4:33

of Italy, Pietro Badolio. Confirmation

4:36

of Mussolini's fall turns to

4:38

open celebration across the land.

4:40

Professor John Foote, all over

4:42

Italy, when the news breaks,

4:45

smashing out fascist symbols as

4:47

a kind of overturning moment

4:49

of liberation, fascistsian, not seen

4:51

on the streets on the

4:53

streets on the streets on

4:56

the streets. It's an incredible...

4:58

At the moment, of course,

5:00

it's a bit premature, because

5:02

the war will go on

5:05

for another two years. On

5:07

the streets, a chant goes

5:09

up. Benito Effenito. As Mussolini

5:11

is being driven away, he's

5:13

oblivious to the opening move

5:16

of Bedolio's new government. It

5:18

is formally abolishing the Italian

5:20

fascist party. Within 48 hours

5:22

of Mussolini's arrest, the movement

5:25

he found it is no

5:27

more. Professor

5:29

Helen Rush. Suddenly, as soon

5:31

as people think that he's

5:34

gone for good, they're tearing

5:36

down fasties, emblems, they're ripping

5:38

off their PNF badges and

5:41

stamping them underfoot, they're threatening

5:43

people who are still wearing

5:45

the party badge that they'll

5:48

stuff it down their throat.

5:50

It's amazing how within such

5:52

a short space of time,

5:55

you can go from this

5:57

absolute worship worship worship. to

5:59

just growing him under the

6:01

bus. Age 71, but Dolio seems

6:04

a reasonable pick

6:06

as the new leader. A career

6:08

soldier, an esteemed general

6:10

loyal to the crown. A man

6:13

who fell out with Mussolini

6:15

over the disastrous invasion

6:18

of Greece. But his

6:20

CV comes with ugly

6:22

stains. Professor Nicholas

6:24

of Shonezi. Well, I

6:27

think that we should in him

6:29

his full title, the Duke of

6:31

Addis Baba, which is what he

6:33

got for conquering Ethiopia. He was,

6:35

along with Graziani, the

6:37

biggest of the Butchas.

6:39

They used terror concentration

6:41

camps, genocide, gassings. It

6:43

is truly amazing, actually.

6:46

But Doglio is never tried as

6:48

a war criminal for his crimes

6:50

in either Libya or Ethiopia, because,

6:53

you know, he's suddenly one of

6:55

our boys. and suspense the

6:57

rest of his light in

6:59

contented retreat. Away in

7:01

Germany, news of Mussolini's

7:04

overthrow rocks Hitler. He

7:06

also wonders what might

7:08

happen if the German people

7:10

or the generals turned against

7:12

him. Eight German divisions

7:14

are already in Italy

7:17

underfield Marshall Kessel Ring.

7:19

He will accelerate the flood

7:22

of troops. As Hitler

7:24

grapples with the collapse

7:26

of the Russian front, Italy

7:29

will become an unwelcome

7:31

drain on resources. So

7:33

where the hell is Mussolini?

7:35

For the moment, no one knows.

7:37

There is good reason for

7:40

the secrecy. Il Duchy is now

7:42

a valuable bargaining

7:44

chip. To the allies, he can

7:46

be leveraged, proof that Italy

7:48

has turned a new leaf. Though

7:51

we are far from that

7:53

scenario yet, sewing further confusion,

7:56

Badolio addresses the nation.

8:00

The war goes on and Italy

8:02

remains faithful to its word. He

8:04

pledges for the moment to keep

8:07

fighting alongside Germany. Whatever the outcome,

8:09

Mussolini is a big prize. There

8:11

are plenty of angry Italians too

8:14

who'd like to get their hands

8:16

on him. And it's anyone's guess

8:18

what the Germans might be plotting.

8:21

Dr. Lisa Pine. Hitler said Mussolini,

8:23

my friend and our loyal comrade

8:26

in arms, was betrayed yesterday by

8:28

his king and arrested by his

8:30

own countrymen. I cannot and will

8:33

not leave Italy's greatest son in

8:35

the lurch. He went on to

8:38

say that Italy under a new

8:40

government would desert Germany and he

8:42

would keep faith with his old

8:45

ally and his dear friend and

8:47

that he didn't want him to

8:50

be handed over to the allies.

8:53

Straight from his arrest, Mussolini

8:56

is taken to a Caribbean

8:58

barracks. The next day he's

9:00

put in a car with

9:02

blacked-out windows and driven down

9:05

the coast to Guyta. There

9:07

he's put aboard a naval

9:09

Corvette and taken out to

9:11

sea. Plans change by the

9:13

minute. The prison island of

9:15

Ventantini is approached then bypassed.

9:17

They head instead for Ponsa,

9:19

70 miles off Naples. Mussolini

9:22

puts ashore on July the

9:25

29th, his 60th birthday. But

9:27

the downside of having developed

9:29

a cult of personality is

9:32

that everyone knows who you

9:34

are. Word is already out.

9:36

After a week, Mussolini is

9:39

relocated. It's a perilous passage

9:41

across the Iranian Sea. The

9:43

Allied navies are out in

9:46

force. But the ship docks

9:48

at another island. La Madelena.

9:51

off the coast of Sardinia.

9:53

In this rocky outpost Mussolini

9:55

fancies himself a Napoleon. First

9:58

and Elba, now a St.

10:00

Helena. He's put up in

10:02

a comfortable villa overlooking the

10:05

sea. There he has wild

10:07

nightmares and they concern a

10:09

giant ape. Before the war

10:12

Mussolini had been captivated by

10:14

the film King Kong. He

10:17

has visions now of being

10:19

captured by the Americans and

10:21

exhibited in a cage at

10:24

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u s a.com The

12:00

fighting becomes more and more

12:02

intense. The Germans are waiting

12:04

for them during the coastal

12:07

assault on Salerno. But three

12:09

weeks later, the allies take

12:11

Naples. On September the 8th,

12:13

1943, at the Palazzo Venetia,

12:15

but Doleo calls a cabinet

12:18

meeting. He announces what has

12:20

been expected for six weeks.

12:22

A decision delayed due to

12:24

the foot dragging of the

12:26

king. He has sought an

12:29

armistice. Italy is out of

12:31

the war. It's an amazing

12:33

moment, and it's very important

12:35

for the Second World War,

12:37

because on the key allies

12:40

of Germany leaves, I mean,

12:42

overnight, kind of exits, and

12:44

it changes the whole balance

12:46

of world history. Italy has

12:48

not yet determined its path.

12:51

This is the home of

12:53

Machiavelli after all. They've long

12:55

survived by playing the great

12:57

powers off against each other.

12:59

Unfortunately. Unfortunately. The result is

13:02

chaos. Professor Joshua Arthur's. With

13:04

the Grand Council of Fascism,

13:06

this is really a vote

13:08

of the higher ups to

13:10

save their own skins, to

13:13

try to maneuver out of

13:15

the war in such a

13:17

way that they can maintain

13:19

their own position by jettisoning

13:21

him. And then the king

13:24

makes much the same calculus,

13:26

that Italy can be steered

13:28

out of the war, without

13:30

having to capitulate to the

13:32

allies. They seem to think

13:35

that the Germans will just

13:37

go home and all of

13:39

this proves disastrously wrong. In

13:41

his bunker in East Prussia,

13:43

Hitler summons his commanders. Two

13:46

military missions are set in

13:48

motion. The first, Operation Axis,

13:50

initiates the full German military

13:52

occupation of Italy. And the

13:54

second, Operation Oak, while it's

13:57

old cloak and dagger. So,

14:02

It's September the 12th, 1943,

14:04

just after 2 p.m. We're

14:06

high in the upper mines,

14:08

the range of mountains that

14:10

runs down the spine of

14:12

Italy. The Grand Sasso, literally,

14:14

Great Rock, is a huge

14:16

jagged hump rising to 10,000

14:18

feet. Two hours north of

14:20

Rome, it's close enough for

14:23

the capitals well healed to

14:25

enjoy little skiing. At least

14:27

they did so before the

14:29

war. Atop the

14:31

Grand Sasso-Sits a resort hotel,

14:33

now empty, the Campo Imperitori.

14:36

The construction of the complex

14:38

is incomplete. The architect designed

14:41

a trio of buildings in

14:43

the shape of three letters.

14:46

D.V.X. Latin for Duchy. A

14:48

name to be visible from

14:51

the heavens. But only the

14:53

D was finished. And in

14:56

it, today, sits Benito Mussolini.

14:59

Duchy in the D of

15:01

Docks. The hotel seems the

15:04

perfect place to keep him

15:06

now. Remote, accessible only by

15:08

a funicular railway, protected by

15:11

armed guards. As the hotels

15:13

only guessed, Mussolini is given

15:16

the best suite in the

15:18

house, waited on as if

15:21

he'd never been overthrown. From

15:23

his armchair he looks out.

15:26

contemplating the spectacular view when

15:28

suddenly out of nowhere an

15:31

aircraft sweeps down its wingtip

15:33

skimming mere feet from the

15:36

glass it's silent a glider

15:38

it skids across the grassy

15:41

slope coming to an abrupt

15:43

stop on its wings a

15:45

black crosses on its tail

15:48

a swastika and out of

15:50

its hold Poor German paratroopers.

15:53

They clamber. up the screen,

15:55

machine guns at the ready.

15:58

They've even brought a film

16:00

crew with them. Their lead

16:03

man waves at Mussolini telling

16:05

him to get back. With

16:08

the defending Calabenieri putting their

16:10

hands up, the paratroop was

16:13

burst into the hotel. A

16:15

minute later, standing before Mussolini

16:17

is an officer, six feet

16:20

four, square jawed, and with

16:22

a dueling scar running down

16:25

his cheek. He introduces himself

16:27

as Lieutenant Colonel Otso Scruzani,

16:30

and he has come, he

16:32

says, on the direct orders

16:35

of Adolf Hitler. He is

16:37

here to set Il Duché

16:40

free. Duché, the Fure has

16:42

sent me as a token

16:45

of his loyal friendship, to

16:47

which Mussolini replied, I knew

16:50

that my friend Adolf Hitler

16:52

would not have abandoned me.

16:56

Outside a small single-engine

16:58

aircraft bumps along to

17:00

land near the glider.

17:02

It keeps its engine

17:04

running as it turns

17:06

back into the wind.

17:08

The hotel staff line

17:10

up to bid Mussolini

17:12

farewell. His guards even

17:15

pose for photos with

17:17

their attackers. In Germany,

17:19

the Grand Sasso raid

17:21

will be presented in

17:23

newsreels as a daring

17:25

commando operation. a high-octane

17:27

action thriller. It is,

17:29

in fact, entirely stage-managed.

17:31

It's one of the

17:33

great set pieces of

17:36

dramaturgy in World War

17:38

II. It's not actually

17:40

led by Pearl Scorsaney.

17:42

There's another one in

17:44

charge, but Scorsaney takes

17:46

the credit because he's

17:48

such a kind of

17:50

Gothic figure with his

17:52

dueling scars and so

17:54

forth. And later actually

17:57

paradoxically in the 1950s

17:59

finds a renaissance employed

18:01

by Israel's Mosshead, which

18:03

is an unusual... We

18:05

say Kuremu for an

18:07

SS kernel. The pilot

18:09

gestures frantically. They must

18:11

go. He also insists

18:13

there's only room for

18:15

one passenger. But Skorzani

18:18

has promised to deliver

18:20

Mussolini personally. He's coming

18:22

along for the ride.

18:24

The pilot opens the

18:26

throttle. The run-up is

18:28

ridiculously short. Engine straining.

18:30

The plane plunges over

18:32

the edge. The pilot

18:34

heaves back on the

18:36

stick. But with skill,

18:39

he brings the nose

18:41

up. Into the Apennine

18:43

sky. Mussolini is spirited

18:45

away. winging his way

18:47

to Rastenberg, East Prussia,

18:49

with a big romantic

18:51

reunion with the Fura.

18:53

On September the 14th,

18:55

1943, his Juncker's 52

18:57

comes in low over

19:00

the thick pine forests.

19:02

Save for the chunk

19:04

carved out of it

19:06

for Hitler's wolf's lair,

19:08

HQ. It seems to

19:10

stretch on forever. As

19:12

Mussolini comes down the

19:14

steps, and excited Hitler

19:16

is waiting for him.

19:19

dressed in a long

19:21

leather trench coat. Though

19:23

it's hard not to

19:25

betray his dismay. In

19:27

his truly shocked by

19:29

Mussolini's appearance, he's so

19:31

haggard, he's so awful.

19:33

In the morning sunshine,

19:35

they hug. But, once

19:37

settled in the bunker,

19:40

Hitler gets down to

19:42

business. He urges Mussolini

19:44

to take revenge on

19:46

the Bedouio regime as

19:48

soon and as painfully

19:50

as possible. And especially

19:52

on those... cowards of

19:54

the grand council who

19:56

voted him out of

19:58

office. Mussolini

20:01

has a confession. He's not

20:03

sure he's got the stomach

20:05

for this anymore. Hitler admonishes

20:07

him. What is this sort

20:09

of fascism that melts with

20:12

the snow before the sun? He's

20:14

got a plan, he says, and

20:16

it must be put

20:18

into immediate effect. He will

20:21

reinstall Mussolini. Fascism will live

20:23

on. And if he doesn't go

20:25

along with it, asks Mussolini.

20:27

Hitler tells him, he'll live

20:29

on. that he will have

20:31

to treat Italy like any

20:34

occupied territory. It

20:36

will not be pleasant.

20:39

Mussolini has flown back

20:41

to Munich. There on

20:44

September the 18th, he

20:46

takes to the radio.

20:48

Blackshirts, Italian men

20:50

and women, after a long

20:53

silence, my voice comes

20:55

to you once again. and

20:57

I'm certain you recognize it.

21:00

Padolio's government is

21:02

illegitimate, he continues. The

21:04

king acted unlawfully. He

21:06

proclaims instead the establishment

21:09

of an Italian social

21:11

republic. So the Italian social

21:13

republic is declared it

21:16

presents itself as the

21:18

fullest realization of the

21:20

fascist vision, that for

21:22

the past 20 years...

21:24

Mussolini had to compromise

21:26

with the king, with

21:28

the establishment, and now

21:30

by declaring a republic,

21:33

fascism was liberating itself

21:35

from those constraints. That

21:37

finally, the fascist revolution

21:39

would be completed. The

21:41

news of Mussolini's return, plus

21:43

the German troop surge, will

21:45

have an immediate effect.

21:51

The king in the meantime is

21:53

fled Rome, abandoning Rome to

21:55

Hitler basically, which is another

21:57

terrible betrayal of the Italian

21:59

people. He's pissed off to

22:01

the south, leaving the capital

22:04

city, basically undefended. There's a

22:06

bit of resistance, but not

22:08

much. Hitler's field marshal, Kessery,

22:11

takes Rome in two days.

22:13

In its aftermath, 650,000 Italian

22:15

soldiers will become POUS. From

22:17

exile in Malta on October

22:20

the 13th, Badolio formally declares

22:22

that Italy will now take

22:24

up arms with the allies

22:27

against the Axis against the

22:29

Axis. And they changed sides,

22:31

which is very complex, of

22:34

course, for the Italian armed

22:36

services, some of whom choose

22:38

to fight for the Germans,

22:41

but Italy changes sides in

22:43

the middle of World War

22:45

II. 11 days after his

22:48

rescue, Mussolini is back in

22:50

his new republic's capital. Not

22:53

Rome, as he hoped, but

22:55

Salo. a small town in

22:58

Lombardy in the north of

23:00

Italy, tucked away on the

23:03

shores of Lake Garda. To

23:05

claim that Mussolini is now

23:07

in charge of a new

23:10

independent Italy, is to vastly

23:12

overstate the case. His domain

23:15

will amount only to the

23:17

bits that the Germans let

23:20

him control. Nominally everything north

23:22

of Rome, though that will

23:25

start to contract as the

23:27

Allies advance. Mussolini declares boldly.

23:30

I am not here to

23:32

renounce even a square meter

23:34

of state territory. Where the

23:37

Italian flag flew, the Italian

23:39

flag will return. But that

23:42

too is a fantasy. Parts

23:44

of the Northeast have already

23:47

given over to direct Wehrmacht

23:49

military command. Italy's Balkan and

23:52

Greek territories are also signed

23:54

over. Really, this sallow republic

23:57

or the Italian social republic

23:59

was effectively a puppet state.

24:01

of Nazi Germany. This relationship

24:04

between Mussolini and has turned

24:06

completely on its head, and

24:09

now Mussolini's entirely dependent on

24:11

Hitler, not only for having

24:14

rescued him, but also for

24:16

him to continue in Italy.

24:19

The Republic may have nominal

24:21

offices in Verona, but Mussolini

24:24

is effectively working from home.

24:26

From the villa Feltrinelli in

24:29

the Lakeside Village of Gagnano,

24:31

he will spend his time

24:33

here under virtual house arrest.

24:36

The SS monitoring is every

24:38

move, every phone call, albeit

24:41

in a luxury residence, set

24:43

amid the pine trees, with

24:46

exquisite views over the lake.

24:48

He is basically a prisoner

24:51

of the German's very pampered

24:53

prison. It's a beautiful part

24:56

of Italy, Lake Garda. The

24:58

views are magical. But he

25:00

is a prisoner in effect,

25:03

while having all the symbols

25:05

on our office. It's actually

25:08

just a costume drama row.

25:10

He is a bird in

25:13

a gilded cage. Mussolini's family

25:15

has returned to him. The

25:18

Germans have even found a

25:20

nearby house for Clara Patachi.

25:23

But as for being the

25:25

Duchy again... He has some

25:27

old loyalists in place. General

25:30

Graziani as his defense minister.

25:32

Alessandro Pavolini is his party

25:35

secretary. The Rasputin, like Nikola

25:37

Bombachi, is his enforcer. There

25:40

are also twenty-odd thousand blackshirts

25:42

of yomped north. But it's

25:45

all a charade. Mussolini, it's

25:47

joked, is the gowlighter of

25:50

Lombardy. A sawdust Caesar. A

25:52

series of childlike drawings scrawled

25:55

throughout a country estate. A

25:57

prize horse wandering... the Moors

25:59

without an owner. To the

26:02

regular observer, these are merely

26:04

strange anomalies. But for the

26:07

master detective, Sherlock Holmes, they

26:09

are the first pieces of

26:12

an elaborate puzzle. I'm Hugh

26:14

Bonneville. Join me every Thursday

26:17

for Sherlock Holmes' short stories.

26:19

I'll be reading a selection

26:22

of the super sleuth's most

26:24

baffling cases, all brought to

26:26

life in their original masterful

26:29

form. The game

26:31

is afoot and you're invited

26:33

to join the chase. From

26:35

the Noiser network, this is

26:37

Sherlock Holmes Short Stories. Search

26:39

for Sherlock Holmes Short Stories

26:41

wherever you get your podcasts.

26:43

Or listen at noiser.com. As

26:46

ever in Italy, even in

26:48

these remote parts, chaos swirls

26:50

around. And you got this

26:52

very complicated moment where Italy

26:54

is basically divided. Part of

26:56

it is still fighting with

26:58

the Germans. Part of it

27:00

is fighting with the Allies.

27:02

Many people are not doing

27:04

either. And it's a civil

27:06

war and a war at

27:08

the same time. It does

27:10

Italy even exist? What is

27:12

Italy in 1943? Nobody knows.

27:14

The social republic, its main

27:16

function, and I think it

27:18

needs to be taken seriously,

27:21

was as a repressive instrument.

27:23

Its role in assisting the

27:25

Germans in rounding up Italian

27:27

Jews and in fighting anti-fascist

27:29

partisans. There's another

27:31

order of business, or rather

27:33

unfinished business, to which Mussolini

27:36

must attend. Those 19 members

27:38

of the fascist Grand Council

27:41

who brought him down. Dino

27:43

Grandi has fled to Spain.

27:45

General Deveki has gone into

27:48

hiding. Others live under allied

27:50

military protection. And then, there

27:53

is Galiatsubchiano. Fearing arrest. by

27:55

the Badolio regime, Chiano had

27:58

tried to flee the country.

28:00

Nively, he trusted the Germans

28:02

and their assurances of a

28:05

safe passage to Spain, for

28:07

himself, wife, Eda, and their

28:10

three children. But he was

28:12

conned. The plane they boarded

28:15

flew them straight to Munich,

28:17

right into the belly of

28:19

the beast. There, after Mussolini's

28:22

rescue, He held a meeting

28:24

with his father-in-law in which

28:27

the Duchy seemed on the

28:29

path to forgiveness. But his

28:32

mother-in-law, Rakeli, is not inclined

28:34

to be merciful. No is

28:36

Adolf Hitler. China was returned

28:39

to the Italian social republic

28:41

and delivered straight to the

28:44

Gestapo. I mean,

28:46

the soap opera starts

28:48

with Giano's own, voted

28:50

the Grand Council. Giano is

28:53

his heir apparent, his

28:55

son-in-law, and seems to

28:57

be best positioned to take

28:59

over, and he's amongst those

29:02

who sighed against Mussolini.

29:04

There is this general

29:06

bloodletting purging the ranks of

29:08

everyone who betrayed him.

29:10

Jovani Marinelli, Carl Paresky,

29:12

Luciano Gottardi, Tullio Chenetti, and

29:15

General Emilio de Bono. Over

29:17

two days from January

29:19

8th, 1944, they will

29:21

be put on trial to

29:24

Procheso di Verona, held

29:26

in a courtroom in

29:28

the Castile Vecchio, tried on

29:30

a charge of treason, of

29:33

plotting with the enemy.

29:35

They find it laughable

29:37

at first. 77-year-old Debona reminds

29:39

the court that he's been

29:42

an honorable soldier his

29:44

entire life. How could

29:46

it be a plot? asks

29:48

Channer, if Mussolini himself

29:50

had been handed the

29:52

motion in advance. But the

29:55

eight-man tribe... of hardcore fascists

29:57

reaches its foregone conclusion.

29:59

With the exception of

30:01

Chanetti, who gets a life

30:04

sentence on the strength

30:06

of a written apology,

30:08

they are each condemned to

30:10

death. Those still at large

30:13

are sentenced in absentia.

30:15

And so, on the

30:17

morning of January the 11th,

30:19

the five men are led

30:22

from the scalsy prison

30:24

and into the snow

30:26

of Saint Prokola. It's a

30:28

clumsy execution. The militia

30:30

men are poor shots.

30:32

Chano, only wounded, lies bleeding,

30:35

gasping for breath. An officer

30:37

takes out his pistol,

30:39

finishing him off with

30:41

a bullet to the head.

30:44

One report claims Chiano's

30:46

last words as not

30:48

Vivalitalia, but Mamma Mia. Afterwards,

30:50

Yilduche shrugs. So far as

30:53

I'm concerned, he says,

30:55

Chano has been dead

30:57

for ages. Professor

31:03

Julie Albanese. It shows the

31:06

violence of this state or

31:08

ship who is able to

31:10

do anything to anybody in

31:13

a way and the fact

31:15

that most of the people

31:17

near Mussolini are in favor

31:20

of killing his son-in-law, starting

31:22

with his wife. I mean,

31:24

it is a word which

31:27

is violent in the end,

31:29

a word in which our

31:31

accounts more than human relationship.

31:34

which is heading to its

31:36

end and the project. So

31:38

the Verona is a symbol

31:41

of this. China was foreign

31:43

minister and son-in-law, like, you

31:45

know, the perfect double fascist.

31:48

You'd actually married into the

31:50

Masith family. You couldn't get

31:52

more powerful than that. Their

31:55

shots, you know, tied to

31:57

chairs, like traitors, they're not

31:59

even given proper sort of

32:01

dignified executions. It's pretty horrible.

32:04

And you know, that's the

32:06

last days of fascism becomes

32:08

more and more and more...

32:11

more nasty and vindicated. China

32:13

will leave an important legacy.

32:15

Its diaries, smuggled out of

32:18

the country by Eda, they

32:20

will, after the war, give

32:22

invaluable insight into the inner

32:25

sanctum of Benito Mussolini. Sieno

32:27

was the most prominent figure

32:29

of the regime. He was

32:32

also, in many ways, one

32:34

of the most skeptical. But

32:36

like all of them, he

32:39

was pulled forward by the

32:41

tumult of Italian and fascism's

32:43

capacity for self-deception. But we

32:46

really are in the world

32:48

of Jacob and tragedy, the

32:50

world of Shakespeare and tragedy,

32:53

when the final Daniel Ma

32:55

is the entire stage is

32:57

covered in bodies. The U.S.S.

33:00

Fifth Army enters Rome on

33:02

June 4th, 1944. It's the

33:04

first Axis capital to fall.

33:07

In a fit of depression,

33:09

Hitler takes to his bed.

33:11

His staff will have difficulty

33:13

rousing him 48 hours later,

33:16

when in the early hours

33:18

of June 6th, D-Day, Allied

33:20

forces begin landing in Normandy.

33:23

For the furor, the news

33:25

will only get worse. Axis

33:27

partners Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and

33:30

Finland are all throwing in

33:32

the tower. Germany will have

33:34

no choice now but to

33:37

abandon Italy and withdraw its

33:39

armies to defend the fatherland.

33:41

On July 20th 1944 Mussolini

33:44

has flown up for another

33:46

meeting at the wolf's lair.

33:48

His plane touches down amid

33:51

a scene of panic. There

33:53

are SS men running back

33:55

and forth, vehicles driving here

33:58

and there, ominously. From the

34:00

center of the forest compound,

34:02

a pall of black smoke

34:05

is rising. As he's driven

34:07

through the perimeter, past the

34:09

fences and checkpoints, Mussolini is

34:12

given some devastating news. There

34:14

has been an attempt on the

34:16

Fura's life. A bomb had gone

34:18

off, placed in a briefcase under

34:20

a mat table, as his officers

34:22

gathered around it. It's okay, Mussolini

34:24

is assured. Hitler has

34:27

been extraordinarily lucky. In

34:29

fact, in a strange twist of

34:31

fate, it was Mussolini who

34:34

saved him. It was news of

34:36

Il Duchas' arrival that caused

34:38

the morning strategy meeting to

34:41

be brought forward. The plotters

34:43

were rushed. The meeting with

34:46

the Fura is surreal. He looks

34:48

like a character from a cartoon.

34:50

He has a blackened

34:52

face, no eyebrows. His trousers

34:55

are in shreds. He

34:57

seems delirious, euphoric, clearly

34:59

drugged up. Hitler shows

35:01

Mussolini the plans he has for

35:03

a new set of wonder weapons,

35:06

rockets and such like, that are

35:08

going to change the course of the

35:10

war just you see. Mussolini

35:12

never want to be outdone.

35:14

He tells him about an

35:16

Italian scientist who has invented

35:18

a death ray. As he leaves,

35:20

Hitler grabs Mussolini by the arm.

35:22

He tells him, please believe me

35:24

when I tell you that you

35:27

are my only friend. In

35:34

Italy, Kesselring is now fighting

35:36

a rearguard action, holding

35:38

the new Gothic line north of

35:40

Florence. The Germans were now flooding

35:43

through North Italy, tying it

35:45

down, controlling it, and they

35:47

couldn't be dislodged. Of

35:49

course, they're remarkably brutal

35:51

to the Italian partisans.

35:54

The reason the memory of Mussolini

35:56

is execrable in naught Italy,

35:58

but North South, is because

36:00

of what the Germans were

36:03

doing. They were massacring hostages,

36:05

villages, and so on. They're

36:07

not just going after the

36:10

partisans. But they did what

36:12

the Germans did everywhere, brutal

36:14

reprisals against the civilian populations.

36:17

That, of course, just fueled

36:19

partisan rage. But the days

36:22

of the German occupation, and

36:24

with it, the Sallow Republic,

36:26

outnumbered. The partisans are

36:29

getting their act together. Coming now

36:31

under a committee of national liberation

36:33

for Northern Italy. So there are

36:36

disparate partisan groups. Some are formed

36:38

as early as September 1943 with

36:40

the Italian surrender and soldiers taking

36:43

to the hills to avoid capture

36:45

by the Germans. It includes young

36:48

men fleeing labor round-ups in the

36:50

Salo Republic, peasants who have taken

36:52

to the hills. And at times

36:55

they work hand in hand, but

36:57

there's also at times conflicts over

36:59

what the ultimate goal of resistance

37:02

is. Is it just to free

37:04

Italy of the Germans, to defeat

37:07

fascism, or is it to wage

37:09

a revolutionary class war and create

37:11

a new Italy after the war?

37:14

In his villa on the lake,

37:16

Mussolini carries on in a state

37:18

of delusion. still calling cabinet meetings

37:21

to discuss collective farming and economic

37:23

reforms. In his downtime he reads,

37:25

plays his violin or takes a

37:28

turn on the tennis court, where

37:30

his opponents are instructed to let

37:33

him win. He's holding up there

37:35

without too much power on the

37:37

lake, really waiting for the end,

37:40

because it's inevitable at that time.

37:42

And he's much more realistic than

37:44

hither in that sense. He knows

37:47

the end is coming and it's

37:49

preparing for it. He's doing things

37:52

like... taking money out of bank

37:54

accounts. I mean, the Italian fascism

37:56

basically drained the Bank of Italy

37:59

and stole enormous amounts of money

38:01

for itself. It was a very

38:03

corrupt regime. I have a documentary

38:06

evidence of Mussolini taking cash from

38:08

the Central Bank and giving it

38:11

to his sons in the last

38:13

days. A visitor to the Villa

38:15

Feltrinelli is a journalist named Madeline

38:18

Moliere. She had been bowled over

38:20

by the Duché in his prime.

38:22

He confesses to her. Seven years

38:25

ago I was an interesting person.

38:27

Now, I'm little more than a

38:29

corpse. My star has fallen. My

38:32

star has fallen. I have no

38:34

fight left in me. I await

38:37

the end of the tragedy. So

38:39

he knows the end is nigh,

38:41

he knows it's near, he knows

38:44

there is no elegant way of

38:46

getting out. Under this his last

38:48

chapter, which he's got to both

38:51

write and read, his last performance

38:53

in the theatre which he has

38:56

to both perform and watch. I

38:58

mean, I guess that he knows

39:00

that he is towards the end.

39:03

I guess he knows and everybody

39:05

knows near him. Then I don't

39:07

know which is the degree, which

39:10

you pretend the things are not

39:12

like this. By spring 1945 it's

39:14

game over for the Germans in

39:17

Italy. On April the 16th Mussolini

39:19

calls his last cabinet meeting. He's

39:22

advised to cut his losses, to

39:24

get out, leave the country. Nearby

39:27

Switzerland is the obvious choice.

39:29

From there he can get

39:32

to Spain. There is talk

39:34

of Argentina, even Polynesia. But

39:36

now, says Mussolini, he is

39:39

going to take a loyal

39:41

army of 3,000 blackshirts and

39:43

head to Valtalina in the

39:45

northeast. And there, like the

39:48

Spartans, they will make their

39:50

final heroic stand. But before

39:52

that, he's going back to

39:55

his spiritual home. Milan. He

39:57

bids rakili. and his family

39:59

goodbye. Then, under a close

40:01

SS escort, he heads off.

40:04

It's a strange few days

40:06

in Milan. All across Northern

40:08

Italy the cities are falling,

40:11

Genoa, Triesta, Bologna. With Allied

40:13

armies just 60 miles away,

40:15

there Mussolini sits in the

40:17

Palazzo Montforti. acting like the

40:20

big cheese he used to

40:22

be. But, with a partisan

40:24

uprising set for April the

40:26

25th, the local German commander

40:29

informs Mussolini that he's evacuating.

40:31

He is arranged for some

40:33

vehicles to get them all

40:36

out of there. That night

40:38

they head north, skirting the

40:40

shores of Lake Como. Mussolini

40:42

is still unclear as to

40:45

whether he's going to perform

40:47

his last heroic stand, or

40:49

make a bolt for Switzerland.

40:52

One thing for sure, he's

40:54

going to be doing it

40:56

on a budget. In the

40:58

baggage train had been a

41:01

truck full of gold bars,

41:03

looted from the treasury. The

41:05

wealth with which he'd hoped

41:08

to set up anew. Amid

41:10

the chaos, the truck has

41:12

been plundered. The booty no

41:14

more. So this regime, who

41:17

spoke of justice order, this

41:19

man were... taking money from

41:21

wherever and using public money

41:23

for very private reason and

41:26

reaching them in an horrible

41:28

way while they were in

41:30

government and while they were

41:33

pretending to work for a

41:35

nicer or for a more

41:37

just word. What is that?

41:39

All is not yet lost.

41:42

Word comes that German vehicles

41:44

are now being given an

41:46

amnesty, being allowed safe passage

41:49

through the partisan checkpoints. Though

41:51

a warning it's not a

41:53

luxury being afforded to any

41:55

Italian fascists who might be

41:58

caught in their company There

42:01

is a German-armored column of

42:03

40 vehicles in the area

42:05

Mussolini is told. It's retreating

42:08

to Innsbruck. He and his

42:10

entourage must go with them,

42:12

take their chances. Within hours,

42:14

Mussolini finds himself inside a

42:16

Wehrmacht-armored car. Patachi joins the

42:18

convoy too, in an Alpha-Roméo

42:20

driven by her brother Marcello.

42:23

The car has Spanish diplomatic

42:25

plates. They will pose as

42:27

members of Spain's Milan Milan

42:29

consulate. 7am,

42:37

on April 27th, 1944, just

42:40

past the village of Menagio.

42:42

The column which has been

42:44

rumbling along the narrow winding

42:47

road comes to an abrupt

42:49

halt, up ahead as a

42:52

roadblock, a felled tree and

42:54

a pile of boulders. With

42:56

the lake on one side

42:59

and a rock face on

43:01

the other, there's no way

43:04

round it. They're sitting ducks.

43:06

From up above. and seemingly

43:09

all around them, shots ring

43:11

out. The Germans return fire,

43:13

but they're shooting at ghosts.

43:16

The column's commander of tenant

43:18

Farmier waves his arms, ceasefire.

43:21

He can see men now

43:23

moving behind the barricade. Partisans.

43:25

Quickly he fashions a white

43:28

flag. He edges along the

43:30

road. Two partisans come out

43:33

and do the same. Falmay

43:35

reminds them of the deal,

43:38

that German vehicles should be

43:40

given safe passage. The partisans

43:42

seem unsure. It's a long

43:45

and tense wait, over six

43:47

hours, during which time Falmay

43:50

is taken away to speak

43:52

with the local commander. To

43:54

great relief, he returns. They

43:57

are to be let through.

43:59

First, they must follow the

44:02

partisans to the village of

44:04

Dongo for their vehicles to

44:07

be inspected. Back in the

44:09

armored car, Mussolini is handed

44:11

in Infantiumen's greatcoat to throw

44:14

over his militia uniform and

44:16

the German army helmet. He's

44:19

whisked back to one of

44:21

the troop trucks, given a

44:24

machine gun and told the

44:26

climb in to sit all

44:28

the way inside. Unfortunately, at

44:31

this moment, at this moment,

44:33

Clada Patachi starts screaming at

44:36

the top of her voice,

44:38

banging on the side, accusing

44:40

her lover of abandoning her.

44:43

To those spying on the

44:45

convoy from the hillsides, the

44:48

histrionics have been noted. At

44:50

3 p.m. the column of

44:53

vehicles pulled into the dongo

44:55

village square, tantalizingly only six

44:57

miles from the Swiss border.

45:00

Moving down the lines of

45:02

infantry trucks. A partisan finds

45:05

in the fourth one, a

45:07

soldier dressed oddly, hunched forward,

45:09

with a machine gun pressed

45:12

between his knees, and he's

45:14

wearing sunglasses. The Germans protest.

45:17

He's just drunk, sleeping it

45:19

off, leaving B. But the

45:22

partisan has an inkling. The

45:24

brigade commander is called over.

45:26

A man named Urbano Lazzaro.

45:29

He climbs aboard. Are you

45:31

Italian?" he asks the soldier.

45:34

The soldier looks up. Yes,

45:36

I am. Blat's out of

45:38

smiles, momentarily lapsing into the

45:41

old formality. Excellency. We were

45:43

expecting you. Benito Mussolini has

45:46

marched across the cobbles to

45:48

the mayor's office. Patachi, meanwhile,

45:51

failing. with her Spanish rules

45:53

is having trouble convincing anyone

45:55

she's not the Duchy's mistress.

45:58

News travels fast. The HQ

46:00

of the Liberation Committee is

46:03

suddenly inundated with messages from

46:05

the American OSS. They are

46:07

reminded of the armistice agreement

46:10

that was signed between Badolio

46:12

and Eisenhower, specifically its clause

46:15

29, that Benito Mussolini... His

46:17

main fascist associates and all

46:20

persons suspected of having committed

46:22

crimes of war will be

46:24

immediately arrested and handed over

46:27

to the United Nations forces.

46:29

But this is too big

46:32

a prize to give up.

46:34

It's rather a case of

46:36

the victims recognizing their tormentor.

46:39

One of the partisans recognizes

46:41

the disguised Mussolini and what

46:44

of course happens is the

46:46

allies. and the Italian government,

46:49

it still has an official

46:51

government, are all petitioned to

46:53

get him to put him

46:56

on trial. Some members of

46:58

the Liberation Committee remain intent

47:01

on doing things by the

47:03

book. Others are going to

47:06

take matters into their own

47:08

hands. The race is now

47:10

aren't to get to Mussolini

47:13

first. A

47:20

car screeches towards Lake

47:23

Como. It contains a

47:25

hardline communist partisan who

47:27

goes by the alias

47:29

Colonel Valerio. Along the

47:31

way he and his

47:33

accomplices of common-deara removals

47:35

van. Mussolini seems relaxed

47:37

in captivity. It's as

47:39

if a weight has

47:41

been lifted. He laughs

47:43

and jokes with his

47:45

captus. That night he

47:48

and Patachia had taken

47:50

to a farmhouse. in

47:52

Giulino di Metzegra. 15

47:54

Italians from the convoy

47:56

have also been brought

47:58

nearby, plus Patachi's brother.

48:00

The tensions soon return.

48:02

Sleep is fitful. They're

48:04

aware of heated conversations

48:06

downstairs, that their partisan

48:08

captors might not be all

48:11

on the same page. For the rest

48:13

of the day, all they can do

48:15

is lie around and wait. At

48:17

4 p.m. on the 28th,

48:19

Balleria reaches the house. Pulling

48:21

rank, he brushes past the

48:24

guards and goes up the

48:26

stairs. Mussolini and Patachi. dozing

48:28

on and off on the

48:30

bed, stare up at this

48:32

striking tall man in the

48:35

long brown trench coat. They

48:37

should gather themselves, he tells

48:39

them. He has orders to

48:41

bring the Duchy back to Milan,

48:44

though not, he neglects to add,

48:46

alive. Whoever Valerio is,

48:48

most probably a man

48:50

named Walter Odysio of

48:52

the Freedom Volunteer Corps,

48:54

he appears used to

48:56

giving orders. Mussolini

48:58

and Patachio led outside by

49:01

Valerio's men and hustled through

49:03

the village square, then bundled

49:05

into a car and driven

49:08

away with armed men perched

49:10

on the wheel arches and running

49:12

boards. It speeds along for

49:14

a short distance. At four ten

49:17

p.m. it stops at the entrance

49:19

to a country house, the

49:21

Villebel Monte. Mussolini and

49:23

Patachia told to get out

49:26

and stand by the wall. It's

49:28

no use, sighed Mussolini. It's

49:30

the end. He simply opens

49:33

his shirt and tells them to

49:35

aim for his chest. Though Patachi

49:37

is not going to go down

49:39

without a fight. Screaming, you cannot

49:42

kill us like this. She rushes

49:44

Valerio and grabs the barrel

49:46

of his machine gun. He pulls

49:48

the trigger, but it jams three

49:51

times. It will not be the

49:53

case with the automatic weapon

49:55

he snatches from his colleague. Within

50:06

an instant, Mussolini and Patachi

50:08

are lying on the ground.

50:10

There was a faint smile

50:12

on the duchy's lips, a

50:15

hint of breathing still. Balleria

50:17

puts another bullet in the

50:19

duchy for good measure. Being

50:21

killed with the uniform of

50:23

an SS is the worst

50:26

end that anybody could imagine

50:28

for a man like him.

50:30

And it's really the manifestation

50:32

of what's fascist was, I

50:34

would say. Also, the relationship

50:37

with Lara Petaci was a

50:39

sign of it, not only

50:41

for the fact that she

50:43

was the lover in a

50:45

regime that pretended that family

50:48

was the most important thing,

50:50

but also because she was

50:52

a constant source of corruption.

50:54

I think that the execution

50:56

has a lot to do

50:59

with the partisans. wanting to

51:01

cement their control, and their

51:03

legitimacy is really the future

51:05

leadership of Italy, rather than

51:07

as subservient to the allies,

51:10

who were presumably then going

51:12

to put Mussolini on some

51:14

kind of international tribunal. The

51:16

bodies are slung in the

51:18

back of the removal's truck,

51:21

along with the other executed

51:23

loyalists. Before the shots were

51:25

fired. The family living in

51:28

the villa claimed they heard

51:30

the assassin give some kind

51:32

of speech, as if Mussolini

51:35

were being read a death

51:37

sentence. Some say it had

51:39

been approved back in Milan,

51:42

others right there in the

51:44

mayor's office, but no one

51:46

will ever know. It was

51:49

very important for them to

51:51

show the populace that they

51:53

were in charge. and also

51:56

that in a sense Italians

51:58

had liberated themselves, that instead

52:00

of viewing the liberation of

52:03

Italy as an Anglo-American, that

52:05

there was a symbolic dimension

52:07

to it where the resistance

52:10

claimed moral legitimacy and political

52:12

legitimacy by filling that vacuum

52:14

when the Germans fled. The

52:17

lorry is driven through the

52:19

night to Milan, and there,

52:21

as we know from the

52:24

opening scene of this story,

52:26

in the early hours of

52:28

Sunday, the bodies will be

52:31

deposited. in the Piazzale d'Oreto,

52:33

dumped on the very same

52:35

spot that Mussolini's goons on

52:38

behalf of the SS, performed

52:40

a summary execution of 15

52:42

partisans. That morning as the

52:45

crowd brutalized the bodies, there

52:47

seems an air of disbelief.

52:49

Can this really be the

52:52

great Hiluche? Of

52:54

the fascists to have gone

52:56

to ground is a man

52:58

named Achilles Tarachi. He had

53:01

worked his way up to

53:03

becoming Mussolini's propagandist, his chief

53:05

spin doctor. Since the collapse

53:07

of the regime, he's been

53:09

living in Cognito in the

53:11

city. Starachi's curse is that

53:13

he's also a fitness fanatic.

53:15

And that morning, in his

53:17

shorts and tennis shoes, he

53:20

decides to go for a

53:22

run. curious as to the

53:24

commotion in the square, he

53:26

jogs past, only for someone

53:28

to recognise him too. Before

53:30

he knows it, he's being

53:32

dragged over to identify Mussolini's

53:34

corpse. A look of shock

53:37

on his face is all

53:39

that's required. Within minutes, he

53:41

too has been shot, and

53:43

will be strung up next

53:45

to his old boss and

53:47

his mistress. Alongside Pavolini, Bombachi.

53:49

and an activist in Jelomini.

53:51

His last words, accompanied by

53:53

a defiant fascist salute, are

53:56

Viva Ill-Du. So he was

53:58

hated as well because he

54:00

was always the man next

54:02

to Mussolini in all the

54:04

photos. Everyone used their act,

54:06

so it probably wasn't a

54:08

good idea to go for

54:10

a joke that day. The

54:12

pictures of Mussolini hanging from

54:15

the girder of the filling

54:17

station will be wired around

54:19

the world. Front page news

54:21

everywhere. It's one of the

54:23

most amazing moments that the

54:25

Second World War, a lot

54:27

of journalists made their careers

54:29

on that. And the image

54:31

of Mussini hung up by

54:34

his feet is this incredible,

54:36

obvious moment of end. End

54:38

of him, end of the

54:40

regime, overturning of power, return

54:42

of democracy, but in quite

54:44

a brutal way. Also, he's

54:46

still the center of attention.

54:48

Everyone's still looking at him,

54:50

but he's dead. In his

54:53

bunker under the Reich chancellery,

54:55

the news stuns Hitler. Having

54:58

learned what happened to Mussolini,

55:00

Hitler took the decision to

55:03

commit suicide himself not to

55:05

leave his fate in the

55:08

hands of anyone who might

55:10

get their hands on him

55:13

and Ava Brown too. Once

55:15

the bodies are taken down,

55:18

they will lay in the

55:20

mortuary to be snapped by

55:22

a US army photographer. He

55:25

arranges Mussolini and Patachi with

55:27

a little more dignity. From

55:30

there they will be taken

55:32

away to be buried in

55:35

unmarked graves. in the city's

55:37

Mosoko Cemetery. Pradapio, Italy, the

55:40

present day. Mussolini's birthplace is

55:42

now his resting place. After

55:44

his body was dug up

55:47

and stolen, on more than

55:49

one occasion, it was in

55:52

1957, interred here at the

55:54

family's marble crypt. with

55:57

candles burning before a bust

55:59

of Il Duchy. and surrounded

56:01

by fascist regalia. It's become

56:04

a shrine. The souvenir shops,

56:06

meanwhile, sell all manner of

56:08

Musso merge. Someone bought me

56:10

a bottle of Mussolini wine,

56:13

which had its face on

56:15

it. You buy all kinds

56:17

of Mussolini tat. It's a

56:19

really fascinating place to go,

56:22

but it is quite unnerving

56:24

when you see people openly

56:26

with fascist tattoos or fascist

56:28

t-shirts walking around the town.

56:31

It's not just here. but

56:33

right across Italy that Mussolini

56:35

still casts his shadow. There

56:37

are traces of him in

56:40

the fascist era architecture, in

56:42

the black shirt thuggery of

56:44

the football altris, and of

56:46

course, in Italian politics. Members

56:49

of the Mussolini dynasty to

56:51

this day sit in the

56:53

Italian and European parliaments. The

56:55

spirit of Il Duchy conjured

56:58

as a figure of authority,

57:00

a reformer. rather than a

57:02

murderous dictator. It is a

57:04

common refrain that Mussolini also

57:07

did some good things. This

57:09

is something you still hear

57:11

in Italy a lot today,

57:13

and people who say that

57:15

tend to cite the modernization

57:18

of the country under his

57:20

rule. A lot of that

57:22

modernization was explicitly done in

57:24

the aid of fascism's ultimate

57:27

goal, which was war and

57:29

conquest. It's, I think, important

57:31

to recognize that Mussolini did

57:33

kill many people. He killed

57:36

hundreds of thousands, even potentially

57:38

millions of Ethiopians, of Yugoslavs,

57:40

of Greeks, Albanians, that while

57:42

we don't have an Italian

57:45

Auschwitz, that's not to say

57:47

that the fascist war was

57:49

benign. It's extraordinary, given the

57:51

absolute... cruelty of the Germans

57:54

in those areas of Italy

57:56

they occupied. But the legacy

57:58

and image of Mussolini is

58:00

not separated. It is also

58:03

representative of the power of

58:05

Mussolini's propaganda. The notion that

58:07

there was a good sight

58:09

in that he was human,

58:12

Mussolini the lover, Mussolini the

58:14

musician, Mussolini the lover of

58:16

grand opera, although Stephen Fry

58:18

takes the view that the

58:21

only countries which had fascism

58:23

were countries with a tradition

58:25

of grand opera, which he

58:27

must be true. Whatever

58:36

way you approach him, the

58:38

fact is that Mussolini will

58:40

be forever linked to Adolf

58:43

Hitler. But in a perverse

58:45

way this has led to

58:48

an easier ride. That in

58:50

the League of Comparative Evil,

58:52

pound for pound, efares rather

58:55

better. Yes, this is also

58:57

part of the way in

58:59

which in Italy the figure

59:02

of Mussolini and the experience

59:04

of Italians was perceived. But

59:06

for me it is both

59:09

a very problematic way of

59:11

looking at this issue, and

59:14

in a way it downplays

59:16

the role that Italian fascism

59:18

add in changing deeply the

59:21

European political context. In a

59:23

way, we cannot say what

59:25

would have been of Europe

59:28

if Mussolini had took power

59:30

in 1922. And we are

59:32

certain of the fact that

59:35

it greatly influenced many other

59:37

right-wing party and many other

59:39

right-wing leaders in the 20s

59:42

and 30s included Adolf Hitler.

59:44

I think it's important to

59:47

say that in terms of

59:49

their reputation, Hitler is obviously

59:51

war. never rehabilitated and nor

59:54

should it have been. But

59:56

by contrast, Mussolini's was a

59:58

little bit more ambivalent. And

1:00:01

you have in Germany this

1:00:03

attitude towards not, towards the

1:00:05

holler. where the idea has

1:00:08

been for so long never

1:00:10

again. And I feel that

1:00:13

in Italy, maybe there was

1:00:15

never that drive to really

1:00:17

confront what had gone on

1:00:20

in the same way. Italy

1:00:22

doesn't really have a museum

1:00:24

of fascism. If you go

1:00:27

around Berlin, there's tons of

1:00:29

museums of fascism, of Nazism,

1:00:31

tons of memory. the anti-Semitic

1:00:34

stuff, but with fashion itself

1:00:36

it still seems to be

1:00:39

a real taboo to deal

1:00:41

with it and to talk

1:00:43

about it and to historicize

1:00:46

it properly. And if you

1:00:48

don't historicize it it still

1:00:50

can be acceptable. When we

1:00:53

make comparisons between contemporary political

1:00:55

figures and the fascists of

1:00:57

the past, almost routinely the

1:01:00

comparison is made with Hitler.

1:01:02

with a genocile maniac, and

1:01:05

any comparison with Hitler ends

1:01:07

up making the other person

1:01:09

look considerably more benign. But

1:01:12

Hitler in some ways was

1:01:14

the exception, and Mussolini was

1:01:16

the archetype. We can learn

1:01:19

a lot about the nature

1:01:21

of authoritarian power, the use

1:01:23

of political violence, the use

1:01:26

of propaganda, the construction of

1:01:28

occulta personality. We can illuminate

1:01:30

what they're all about by

1:01:33

holding them up against Mussolini

1:01:35

more effectively. Had he made

1:01:38

different decisions, it said, Mussolini

1:01:40

could have died peacefully in

1:01:42

his bed, just like General

1:01:45

Franco. But who knows? Mussolini

1:01:47

through fascism through fascism. was

1:01:49

the godfather of ultra-nationalism, the

1:01:52

architect of the totalitarian state.

1:01:54

Without him, there would have

1:01:56

been no Franco. Moreover...