0:00

When a company says it's going carbon-neutral,

0:02

it's a start Microsoft

0:04

which is been carbon-neutral since 2012

0:07

is on track to be carbon-negative by

0:09

20:30 by 2050,

0:11

they aim to remove from the all the

0:13

carbonated minutes if they were founded in nineteen seventy

0:15

five part of its commitment

0:17

to sustainability, Microsoft also

0:19

runs a 1 billion dollar climate in the fund

0:22

that invests both in new Climate Technologies and

0:24

solutions. And in the companies putting them

0:26

into action. Later, this episode

0:28

you'll hear about one of these companies call block

0:30

power. Stay tuned and learn more

0:32

at a vox dot com innovation.

0:40

It's recode daily. I'm

0:41

Adam Clark Estes.

0:45

seems like every day researchers

0:48

governments the un relief

0:50

everyone who's just paying attention and worried

0:53

about the future of the planets is sounding

0:55

the alarm bells about climate change

0:57

the

0:57

devastating impacts of human caused

0:59

climate change are happening now

1:02

if we don't act immediately scientists

1:04

say the consequences will be catastrophic

1:06

heatwave rouse extreme

1:09

precipitation even fire

1:11

delay

1:16

meanwhile thanks to a confluence of factors

1:19

including the weird pandemic

1:21

economy we've been living through a

1:23

growing number of people are investing

1:25

are investing currency only

1:28

problem is crypto mining uses

1:30

a lot of energy which

1:32

means more greenhouse gases lunar

1:35

plan

1:40

the atomic energy descriptive require we're

1:43

talking on the scale of countries

1:47

the last year a bitcoin users

1:50

around ninety one kerala

1:52

hours of electricity every year which

1:54

is more than it used

1:56

by the nation of finland

2:00

that's deal the nature of who covers tech and

2:02

climate for vox he joins

2:04

us now to talk about why crypto

2:06

contribute to climate change and

2:08

whether whether can go green

2:13

radio yeah

2:15

i'm sure everyone interested in tech

2:18

is heard of version of this question before

2:20

but why does crypto currency

2:22

specifically bitcoin

2:25

you've got so much energy the

2:27

short answer is that

2:29

bitcoin users a

2:31

protocol called proof of as

2:34

, means that in order to mine

2:36

bitcoin you need shows you done work

2:38

and the way you so you don't work is

2:40

by putting in energy people just

2:42

had sign up and a math problems for

2:44

the religious doing is passing in it and

2:47

number on top ten whatever

2:49

computer guess is that number first will

2:51

win the prize of a bitcoin bitcoin

2:54

way works as if you have more computers had

2:56

morteza payment number in mind bitcoin

2:59

and to put computers anymore energy

3:01

and same of as more people get

3:03

into by playing game the energy

3:05

just needed to compete

3:07

i'm imagining that is laptops plugged into

3:09

a wall where exactly does all this mining

3:12

occurred who's doing and how do they make

3:14

money

3:14

the purpose built specialized say

3:16

part machines and there have sitting and

3:18

watching look like new server from rak

3:21

of and rak fear is that purchased

3:24

professors , moon becoming becoming

3:27

the idea is that the more bitcoin

3:29

that me mind using unit of

3:31

energy the fire the so

3:33

have a more efficient peter on

3:36

will peter using less energy to

3:38

get market come in and so

3:40

you'll be more like

3:45

presumably there some people out there

3:47

who are are too curious

3:49

but some are concerned about climate change

3:51

so they might avoid

3:53

bitcoin on some moral grounds

3:55

right yeah definitely yeah definitely there's have

3:57

a real argument gets a time

4:00

are there any efforts underway to make bitcoin

4:03

less damaging to the planet or i guess

4:05

, version that question is is

4:07

there another crypto currencies that is little more

4:10

earth friendly their other crypto currencies

4:12

which work on different model

4:15

i could basically different code base which

4:17

works the concept of proof stake stake

4:19

which only prefer work don't need to put work

4:22

and energy and to and a

4:24

crypto currency out where you do instead essentially

4:27

sort like raffle you buy into

4:29

the crypto currency you you buy some

4:31

the script a currency using and established

4:33

fiat currency like dollars

4:36

and in more that

4:38

crypto currency you hold just

4:40

like rafol the more tests you have to win

4:42

more that progressive is every few minutes algorithm

4:44

is choosing someone to get more of that

4:50

the mistake uses a lot less energy

4:53

than prefer worked as because you don't have all these

4:55

computers they're just sitting around sucking

4:57

up energy trying to mine bitcoin the

4:59

kind of for energy this needed to

5:01

run proof of stake system isn't and

5:03

ninety nine point nine percent less

5:06

energy than a proof of or system

5:09

so in other crypto currency if iran which the second

5:11

largest to currency after bitcoin is

5:13

considering mood was mistake for exactly this reason

5:15

because it would use about

5:17

anti of maybe a small town as opposed to

5:20

a country

5:21

still sounds like lot energy what about

5:23

better hardware

5:25

the sitting the people in the bitcoin was like talk

5:27

about intel recently designed

5:29

ship specifically meant for customizing called

5:31

bonanza mine and the ideas

5:33

as can be super energy efficient so useless

5:35

energy bitcoin

5:37

mining overall will become less

5:40

bad for the climate from live if

5:42

you have more energy efficient ship is the

5:45

incentive isn't really to use less energy

5:47

so much as to mine bore bitcoin for the same

5:49

amount of energy so will get

5:51

isn't really energy saving someone's his his mining

5:54

efficiency it's sort like having

5:57

the drilled a better it really interact in august

5:59

and list drilling you're just gonna get more

6:02

time into gold out the rock in

6:04

other words if the whole

6:06

point is kind of solving this magic ways

6:08

in which like

6:09

the where you put accounts as little bit like playing the

6:11

lottery you're trying to to guess number

6:14

is the tip is better at doing that

6:16

it doesn't mean that it's gonna use less

6:18

energy necessarily it's just gonna get

6:21

more bitcoin for same amount of energy exactly

6:24

and justina again and again know mean crypto

6:26

tips have been getting more energy efficient

6:28

year over year but dinner to use it

6:30

has been going up and as because it just

6:32

makes more sense to put in more energy and get more pecorino

6:35

anarchy

6:36

getting harder right it would there be financial

6:39

incentives to try to keep the

6:41

cost of electricity doubter the

6:43

amount of energy being used down because

6:45

like you said it's going to be harder and harder

6:48

to squeeze more the coin

6:50

out of it's rock the

6:52

particle the bitcoin runs on essentially that

6:54

the math equation the people at to talk about is designed

6:56

to get harder and harder as more

6:58

people into the system so you

7:00

have to start putting more energy into it to

7:02

get bitcoin out a it just means

7:04

that the sufficiency just won't lead to

7:07

any less energy consumption guess he

7:09

now new supreme more work together or

7:12

time

7:13

though this energy use problem is

7:15

not getting better in fact probably gonna

7:17

get worse so out to

7:19

evangelist say that they're gonna had to deal

7:21

with this answer to address the environmental

7:23

impact

7:25

yeah crypto in rental this like to talk

7:27

about using renewable energy they

7:29

actually say that believe one person

7:31

told me that crypto energy use as

7:33

a feature and not a bug because

7:36

all of that energy use is just demand

7:38

basically and so if you have demand for energy

7:40

you can afford , scale

7:42

up renewable energy projects like solar

7:44

wind projects and say we have a guaranteed

7:47

customer for you and they claim

7:49

that crypto can also be used to buy access

7:51

energy from the grid that comes from renewable energy

7:54

currently we have the occasional

7:56

issues where there's too much renewable energy

7:58

and not enough demand and region that wasting

8:00

that renewable energy and so the

8:02

crypto boosters i to say said the scattergun to

8:04

solve the problem that i

8:07

just don't think that's the best use of the energy

8:09

to me on this is kind of like taking

8:11

a tylenol after your broken bone the

8:13

pain my go away from go fair fight the phone

8:16

sodomy broken and hear the broken bone

8:18

is that crypto use so much energy in

8:20

first place

8:22

okay well guess it's time to

8:24

measure the elephant in the room

8:27

crypto general and bitcoin as well

8:29

have been absolutely crashing

8:31

in value the day trip their prices

8:33

crumble as recession fears wow

8:35

what price of bitcoin collapse powers

8:37

five thousand dollars or fifteen

8:39

percent in just a twenty four hour period

8:41

equipped those market value has halved

8:44

since it's peak light last year is

8:46

this crash gonna have a big impact

8:48

on energy consumption

8:51

that's a good question i think the answer comes

8:53

down to how big the crashes gonna be if

8:55

this crashes a short term thing

8:57

than probably not but i think the crash

9:00

continuous of the crash gets worse

9:02

i can definitely see it having

9:04

an impact of energy consumption because

9:06

as becomes less financially

9:09

viable to stay in the crypto business

9:11

people might be forced out business with to start

9:14

rethinking their investments and deciding okay

9:16

now or putting money into

9:18

the energy and resources

9:20

needed to keep up crypto mining operation

9:22

that cadet only lead to lead reduction

9:24

in the energy consumption overtime

9:27

crypto crash aside based

9:29

all this how likely do you really think it is that

9:31

crypto is going to be able to go green you mention

9:34

it proof of stake approach

9:36

instead of the proof of work approach theory i'm

9:39

supposed to do with the summer do think we're

9:41

going see real progress in yeah that's

9:43

a tough on a serious can have an outlier

9:45

like the been saying for years that they want us to speak

9:47

mistake and they've been having all kinds of hurdles

9:50

realistically crypto mining companies politically by

9:52

claiming companies have lot invested

9:54

in

10:02

it also out and arguments about

10:04

benefit to preserve state with work and

10:06

which one is better for security

10:09

there's kinds of moral and ethical reasons

10:11

that people have on both sides as proof

10:13

of work and stick i'll buy

10:15

i don't really foresee any kind of

10:17

future and miss bitcoin least has cancer spurs

10:19

death realistically

10:25

ideal thanks joining us think summit

10:32

this episode was produced and mixed

10:34

by john errands i madam for

10:36

justice than so awesome

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this

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is advertiser content from microsoft

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