0:28

I lost everything , though , once I

0:30

got hooked on drugs

0:32

, on meth yeah .

0:33

So That'll

0:37

do it . That'll do it .

0:39

That was my poison of choice for

0:42

a long time , and

0:45

then , yeah

0:47

, that'll do it , that's right .

0:53

That'll all right . I

0:57

want to adjust your headphones , and you

0:59

know what ? Why did that guy push ?

1:01

it all the way .

1:03

Well , that way

1:09

you want

1:12

this to , about a fist away from your mouth

1:14

.

1:14

Okay , a fist , okay , there

1:16

we go .

1:17

It's where you're comfortable . You can touch

1:19

it and move it around when you're comfortable

1:21

. All right , can

1:25

you hear me ?

1:26

okay , yes On

1:28

the cord , Chris .

1:29

Yeah , pick up your foot there you go , there

1:32

we go . Yeah , sorry , I

1:34

don't have very good wire

1:37

control . Okay , just

1:42

a second .

1:54

Well , one thing is you're

2:00

fortunate you got away from that when you did

2:02

, because you

2:04

know I'm here . I mean , you know , with

2:06

all the NA meetings there

2:10

are people , so many people

2:12

, dying from fentanyl overdoses , buying

2:14

meth . Oh

2:16

wow , it's crazy . Yeah , that

2:19

seems like a setup to me . You

2:22

know you're not cutting this product with something

2:25

entirely different . It

2:27

seems like it's a

2:29

setup .

2:33

All right , we're rolling already , so we

2:37

just basically hop right into

2:40

it . Eddie , Thanks for coming being here

2:42

.

2:42

Appreciate it . Thanks for inviting me .

2:44

Yeah , I

2:47

do . You know how long you've been sober Sure

2:50

, how many days you have .

2:54

I do .

2:56

I know because I had a marine mind off yesterday as

2:58

soon as I open this app .

2:59

Yeah yeah . One

3:03

thousand three hundred thirty

3:05

five days , five hours

3:07

, thirty four minutes and thirty one seconds

3:09

.

3:10

Nice , that's

3:12

. Did you ever

3:14

think you'd get that far ?

3:16

Absolutely not . No , I

3:19

thought that I was

3:21

going to be a lifer to the lifestyle that

3:23

I was addicted to , and I

3:25

never . When I was in it , I didn't

3:27

see any , any

3:29

light at the end of the tunnel , didn't

3:32

think I'd be where I'm at today , and

3:35

I never thought I would accomplish some of the things I've

3:38

accomplished just in the last few years .

3:41

Yeah , it's hard to see past the Whatever

3:46

you're abusing and I'm . It's

3:48

cool that you said you're addicted to

3:51

the lifestyle , Wasn't

3:53

it wasn't one particular , you know

3:56

substance . Mm , hmm . It's a

3:58

, I don't know

4:01

. I guess it's . I don't know if it's

4:03

the hunt of it or I

4:06

guess , all encompassing everything that happens

4:09

when you are using .

4:10

Yeah , yeah , and it's

4:12

hard to say it's just , it's

4:14

the rush , I

4:17

mean the impulsiveness

4:20

of you know , you

4:23

know , just living that way , I guess , just living that

4:25

kind of lifestyle , for sure , yeah

4:27

, what was your drug

4:29

of choice ? Um , my

4:32

drug of choice , it

4:35

very , it kind of changed over

4:37

the course of my 10

4:41

years in addiction basically started

4:44

off , I got in a car accident in 2009

4:47

. Um , I

4:49

went to the doctor . I got prescribed pain

4:51

pain killers . Um

4:54

, uh , and I was on

4:56

Norcos for about Six

4:59

or seven years . Um

5:01

, yeah , and I mean , did I

5:03

really need them that long ? No , was I

5:05

was .

5:06

I did .

5:06

I really was . I really in as

5:09

much pain as I convinced my doctor that I was in ? No

5:11

, not really .

5:13

Like I was just thinking

5:15

. You know the constipation , oh

5:18

God . Oh

5:20

God , for seven years , yeah

5:22

, yeah .

5:25

Um , it never . I

5:27

didn't struggle with constipation , so

5:30

that's a good thing , uh , but

5:33

, um , yeah , so about

5:35

seven years of of um

5:38

, you know , my drug dealer

5:40

was my doctor and uh

5:42

, and he

5:44

ended up . So it , you know , started

5:46

. I don't know where it came from , but somehow it came up in

5:49

our conversation . I even know what fentanyl

5:51

was . Um , I

5:53

didn't . This is probably in about 2014

5:57

or 15 . So it wasn't like really being

6:00

sold on the streets like it is now . Yeah . Um

6:02

, but he started prescribing me these fentanyl

6:04

patches and , uh

6:07

, I remember putting one on

6:09

and was like I said you know , I'm not

6:11

even going to use this . I mean , it didn't even really do anything

6:13

. So I started piling them up in my

6:15

uh , one of my cabinets

6:18

at my house and , um

6:21

, for about probably four or five months , I

6:23

just thought they're kind of stacked up yeah . Um

6:26

one of my buddies came over and um

6:29

he , he was

6:31

uh . He was selling me

6:33

pills and I was uh , cause of course

6:35

, I was running out early and you know , I had a bi-extra

6:38

one . So I started talking about

6:40

fentanyl and he's he's

6:42

uh , he had the he . I started talking

6:44

about the fentanyl patches that have . He's like , oh

6:46

, dude , you can , you can smoke those and you can get

6:48

high off of them . And I was like what , really ? I was like

6:50

huh , and I was like I'm not going

6:52

to do that . That's , that's crazy . You know I'm not

6:54

like so and

6:57

he's like , yeah , can I have one ? I was like , yeah

6:59

, sure , and I gave him one and he kind of like showed

7:01

me like what he meant and he did it and then he started

7:04

nodding off and I'm like , hey , like no

7:06

, you , you know , you can't be smoking

7:08

this like this at my house . That's crazy . It was like

7:10

you need to go do that somewhere else . I'm not going to

7:12

. You know , you can't .

7:13

Yeah , we don't allow drug use and

7:16

overdose of my house .

7:17

So you know it was like so , um

7:20

, you know , about a week went

7:22

by and I started getting

7:24

curious and I started wondering

7:26

and I wouldn't pull them , started pulling them out

7:28

, smoking them one by one .

7:31

So that's crazy how

7:33

he planted that bad seed

7:35

. Yeah . That's all it took and

7:37

you're telling you drew the line . We

7:39

always talk about you . You draw the line , you're knocking

7:41

across and then you end up crossing it .

7:44

Yeah , exactly yeah , um

7:46

, yeah , and I

7:48

crossed it , man , I and I was , I

7:51

mean I was scared too . I

7:53

mean I seen what it ? you know he , he started nodding

7:55

off the way he did right in front of me is like I I

7:58

never did that when I took Norco's . It

8:00

kind of gave me the energy or

8:02

, you know , I don't know , felt like it did anyways

8:05

. Um , so

8:07

yeah , that's where things started getting

8:09

um a little more

8:11

intense in my addiction . And

8:14

then I wasn't just running out of , uh

8:16

, my Norco's anymore early and buying

8:18

more Norco's . I was also running out of my fentanyl

8:21

patches early . I had to come up , I mean

8:23

. But I was really good at manipulating

8:25

my doctor , like I mean , I was

8:27

not in pain , so , um

8:29

, the the average patches they give

8:31

you are 10 and I got them into . I got

8:33

them to prescribe me like 15 every

8:36

month versus a 10 . So I had , I don't

8:38

know I just that manipulation . It's

8:40

, you know , all a part of that disease

8:43

. Um , that

8:45

keeps us going . Um

8:47

, so I

8:50

, you know , now I'm running out of fentanyl patches

8:52

, buying fentanyl patches , and those

8:54

were not cheap . Those were probably $50

8:57

a patch , something like that . Really

8:59

. It's expensive . So

9:01

, spending a lot of money Um each

9:04

month to feed my addiction , um

9:07

, and that

9:09

kind of came to uh

9:11

, I realized I came to a realization

9:14

that , man , I can't afford this . This is , this

9:16

is a lot of money . Um , I

9:18

got sober . I went to um

9:21

uh an IO

9:23

, an outpatient it's about patient treatment center

9:25

here in town Um and

9:27

I got sober . I was sober for about

9:29

uh six

9:32

months and

9:36

um on uh

9:38

December

9:40

30th 2016,

9:44

. I relapsed . I went back

9:46

to my doctor and been there in six

9:48

months , um , I

9:50

, uh I

9:54

got him to prescribe me the same amount

9:56

. You know I was sober for six months , so I'm

9:58

you know he gave me 180 Norcos

10:00

and 15 patches and

10:02

uh went home Didn't

10:04

tell my wife that my ex-wife at the time

10:07

, um I

10:09

waited for her to go to bed and I went out

10:11

over into our closet and I pulled out

10:14

the patches and uh I started

10:16

smoking them and uh

10:18

next thing , you know , I'm unconscious on the bathroom floor

10:20

. Uh , I wake

10:22

up and I have uh two

10:24

paramedics over me so I'd overdosed

10:26

. Um , she said that I

10:29

was uh , I was

10:31

blue , I wasn't moving , I wasn't breathing

10:33

. Um , she cracked my rib , um

10:36

and while she was doing

10:38

CPR on me , so

10:40

wow , yeah

10:42

, yeah , it's always

10:44

brought up in the meetings .

10:46

how you go from , like

10:50

you , wherever you pick , whatever you

10:52

stopped at , you always pick right back

10:54

off . We're , you know , right

10:57

there at that spot or even

10:59

more advanced and you definitely seem

11:02

like you advanced yeah . You know , but

11:04

you were also . Your tolerance was

11:06

probably wasn't there either .

11:08

Your body wasn't used to it ?

11:09

Yeah , uh , that's

11:12

crazy . Did it stop for you then

11:14

?

11:15

No , no . So , um

11:18

, the

11:20

I went , went to the hospital . My

11:22

uh , my wife ended up leaving , that

11:26

was so I was . Uh , the paramedics

11:28

came and they arrived at like 1030 . Got

11:30

me into the hospital . I was Narcan three times , um

11:35

, and the

11:38

next , about five o'clock

11:40

in the morning , my ex-wife she left the hospital , went home . My

11:43

mom came and stayed at the hospital and eight

11:45

or nine o'clock my mom , they released me . My

11:47

mom drives me back home . Um

11:49

, I was , I was , I was , I was , I was , I was , I was , I was , I was , I was , I was , I was , I

11:53

was , I was , I was in a hospital . Um , I remember walking through the front door

11:55

of my house and I shut

11:57

the door . I'm walking to my bedroom . Um

12:00

, my mom , you know , she just dropped me off . So I'm

12:02

walking to my bedroom and I

12:04

put my hands in my pocket and I've got a

12:07

pin and a lighter in one pocket and

12:09

I have foil with fentanyl on it in the other pocket

12:11

. So , um , I

12:14

walk in , I'm walking and I'm taking

12:16

a hit at the same time , opening the bedroom

12:18

door with my elbow

12:20

and walking into my

12:22

bedroom . And my wife . She

12:26

said that she just woke up and

12:28

as she heard me walk through the door and

12:31

my eyes just rolled in the back of my head and I'm out

12:33

again and

12:35

CPR again went

12:38

to the

12:41

. They took me to the KMC

12:43

, they took me to 3B Yep

12:47

. So that

12:49

time one of my friends

12:52

at the time he

12:55

was a BPD officer he came to the call

12:57

because he

12:59

heard where it was at . So

13:01

that time I woke up at KMC

13:04

with him standing over me saying you

13:06

can get out in three days . Yeah

13:14

, I kind of laugh about it now , but I was pissed

13:16

off about it . Yeah , and

13:20

I'm thankful . I mean , I'm very

13:22

thankful that I am where I am today and

13:25

that I lived , and

13:28

I actually wasn't as thankful

13:31

now as I am now for it , because then

13:33

I wasn't , because

13:35

my addiction just got worse from

13:38

there moving forward .

13:39

It kept getting worse .

13:41

Yep kept getting worse . For

13:44

a couple months , still

13:48

battled with my addiction with fentanyl

13:50

and

13:54

Norcos , and I got to the I

13:57

.

13:58

Is your doctor , knowing all this

14:00

, still prescribing ?

14:03

He's still prescribing . He was still yeah . Yeah

14:08

, I mean , I didn't tell him . I

14:10

don't know if they , if you would .

14:12

Yeah , you would think that you're a medical . You

14:15

know if you're in the hospital , but if unless I didn't

14:17

.

14:17

I don't know if maybe . I they would

14:19

have had to get some kind of release probably

14:22

for me to release it . I'm sure

14:24

I probably wouldn't have done it so

14:28

, but

14:30

yeah , for I continued to battle

14:34

that for a few months and then I

14:36

started to quit , or I tried

14:38

to quit on my own , or I kind of did , or

14:42

I was sober for like three days , I was

14:44

going through withdrawals is what it was , and I

14:46

was at work working nights one night and I walk

14:48

into we

14:51

had a lab at the place that I used to work at

14:53

, where I was working nights at , and there

14:56

was a guy in there and he had a line of

14:58

meth lined

15:00

out and

15:03

he got startled because

15:05

I walked in and then he's like , hey , you want

15:07

some ? And I mean we're , we

15:09

worked together for a long time , so I knew him and

15:12

I don't know it .

15:13

Just , I wasn't

15:16

expecting that , but you

15:18

know I was like screw it , yeah

15:20

, yeah

15:22

is

15:24

that your first time trying street drugs

15:27

, or did you switch over from

15:31

the fentanyl patches to

15:33

street .

15:34

So I mean I had done coke a

15:36

few times here and there at

15:38

parties and stuff , so I mean

15:40

I'd and I'd smoked weed a little

15:42

bit in high school and so I

15:46

was about 18 , I don't

15:48

know , around 18 or 19 . I had

15:50

stopped . But as

15:53

far as meth , yeah , that

15:55

was my first time using

15:57

meth .

15:59

What was your initial ? Was

16:01

it like you

16:03

know why was I messing around with fentanyl this whole

16:06

time ? I love

16:08

meth or was it just like I don't like this meth

16:10

stuff ?

16:12

Well , I was kind of going through the

16:15

withdrawals and I was trying to get

16:17

off of the fentanyl so I thought , well

16:21

, I've had . I've

16:23

read that you know the withdrawal

16:25

. You know you don't really withdraw from meth like you

16:27

do from opiates . So I was like I'll

16:29

just start doing some meth and

16:32

get through these opiate withdrawals

16:34

and then you know , I'll just kick the meth

16:36

.

16:37

Yeah , that's it .

16:40

Yeah , that was my plan .

16:42

The stupid disease man .

16:44

That was my plan . Yeah

16:49

, so yeah .

16:52

Did you continue on with meth in four

16:54

while ?

16:55

Three and a half years later it's about six

16:57

months later from that first

16:59

line I had . In that first

17:01

six months I

17:03

had lost

17:05

my house , I

17:08

lost my job that I had for

17:11

11 and a half years and

17:16

I was , and

17:18

I lost my marriage . So yeah

17:21

, Wow sounds about right

17:24

, and that was within like the first

17:26

six months , and then it took me another three

17:28

years to get my head straight

17:30

enough to actually , you

17:33

know , get sober . So yeah

17:36

.

17:38

What was the ? What was the thing

17:40

that ? Well , let me go back

17:42

. I wanted to ask you what , how

17:44

bad was that ? You said you were in a real bad accident

17:47

. It's a car accident . What

17:49

did you hurt ?

17:50

No , Um , my , my

17:53

back . I got T-boned . I

17:56

was a passenger and we got T-boned by

17:58

a drunk driver and

18:00

I mean my

18:02

back was . I

18:05

was in pain at first , Like

18:07

I was hurt , and I went to the doctor because I was in pain

18:09

, you know , and and

18:12

during . So during the accident

18:15

, my spine

18:17

separated because of

18:19

like the whiplash , Because of like the whiplash

18:21

, and it pinched my

18:24

cervical cord . That goes down the or

18:27

my cervical cord , right , yeah , that

18:30

goes down your spine and it , when it's there's spinal

18:32

fluid in it , when it snapped back together , pinched

18:34

it and created a bubble or something

18:37

inside . So I have a bubble inside the spinal

18:39

then inside of my spinal cord . So , I

18:41

don't know , that's a and

18:43

that's where a lot of the pain was

18:46

coming from at first . But it kind

18:48

of everything kind of went away and I

18:50

stopped feeling , you know , and I stopped having pain

18:52

. I don't know when it stopped

18:54

, but yeah

18:57

.

18:58

Now , what did

19:03

you ever use ? Opiates

19:08

in street form ?

19:10

I did yes , so

19:12

a couple of times I

19:15

used heroin and then I used

19:18

. So once I had

19:20

lost everything and I was out on the street , on

19:24

the streets using

19:26

meth , I'd came across heroin

19:28

and I tried it and

19:30

I came across fentanyl

19:33

in the pill form and

19:35

I'd smoked those . So yeah

19:37

, I mean they were around , I

19:41

didn't it

19:46

was . It scared me , but

19:49

so I didn't . I don't know , I

19:51

just I

19:54

did it . I just tried it a few times , but

19:56

yeah .

19:57

How long were you out on the street ?

20:02

About two and a half or three years

20:04

.

20:05

Wow , yeah , that's a long time

20:07

.

20:09

Living out of my car , out of trap

20:13

houses and a

20:17

little bit of my mom's house

20:20

. But I tried not to say that much because

20:22

I just I

20:25

felt real guilty and I didn't want her to see me like

20:27

that and what I was going through , yeah .

20:31

Wow , what

20:33

was , what

20:35

was something ? Or when

20:37

you look back at that time that you were out in

20:39

the street , is it all

20:41

just like a big blur to you ? Or

20:43

were there points and times where you was

20:48

there because

20:51

you know when we ran the addiction or

20:54

alcohol abuse , was

20:56

it ? You know ? You think you're okay

20:58

, you know , like you said , you start crossing your own

21:00

lines that you won't do this

21:02

, that you won't do that . Did you know

21:05

that you were pretty messed up when you were

21:07

out in the street ? Or were you thinking that ? You

21:09

know , this is just there

21:13

was .

21:13

Yeah , I mean , I knew that I was , I

21:16

knew that I there

21:21

was , I

21:26

did know that I was messed up , but

21:28

at first , like

21:30

you know , starting off , like I didn't think I was that bad

21:32

, yeah , and the more I would say

21:35

that I would start . You know , over

21:37

this period of three years , you know , eventually

21:39

it started clicking like dude . You keep

21:41

saying that it's not , you're not that bad

21:43

, and you know , you can't , you

21:46

know , feed

21:48

yourself . You can't , you don't have a place to live , you

21:50

can't get a job , you can't you know you start

21:52

looking at the evidence . Yeah , I start kind of looking at

21:54

exactly yeah , what

21:56

I

21:59

was gonna ask you , what ?

22:04

what led you to to finally

22:06

, because how many times did you overdo ?

22:11

Twice . Yeah , there

22:13

was a third time too . Somewhere

22:18

right around I was , and

22:20

that was on fit . That was street fentanyl

22:22

that I had got and

22:26

I don't . I

22:29

don't remember what when that happened

22:31

, but I know that it happened . I was at , yeah

22:35

.

22:38

So was what led you to finally

22:41

get clean ? Were you just tired of the streets ? Was

22:43

it ? Was there a particular

22:45

? Because for a

22:47

lot of the people , a lot

22:49

of times that I talk to when

22:52

they come on the podcast , is there's

22:54

like a certain moment where they get fed

22:56

up but there's

22:58

a big event a lot of times

23:00

around that . Was there any big event

23:03

for ?

23:03

you when you reach that . You get to that

23:05

point . You know they talk about

23:07

the gift of desperation . Yeah . You

23:10

know , when you hit that , you're like you know what ? I

23:13

just ? You've been in that rut for so damn

23:15

long . You're like I just need to , I need to

23:17

. Something needs to change .

23:19

Yeah .

23:20

You know you're so used to because

23:23

you figure out how to survive . You know you're hanging

23:25

around , you find people and you learn things and this

23:28

is , you know , this is the life . But

23:30

you know , fortunately for you

23:32

, you had 11 and a half years of success

23:34

so at some point that

23:38

started to kind of probably

23:40

kind of you

23:42

know you're getting these reminders of man

23:45

. You know I'm not sure I like

23:47

this . Sometimes it . You know it takes it

23:49

took me a long time , years , to

23:52

finally be like . You know this is

23:55

not working .

23:56

Yeah , so yeah , and

23:58

that's it . You know just those reminders

24:01

along the way thinking back while I was

24:03

in my addiction about you know that

24:06

you

24:08

know just some of this . I

24:10

mean I don't know that , I mean

24:13

I guess like I don't know if I was successful

24:16

, but I know that I knew that I

24:18

could be in a better position

24:20

than I was

24:23

. And you know you're out there

24:25

on the street and you know you find these ways to survive

24:28

. You know these hustles

24:30

. Everybody's a hustler on the street . You

24:32

know , all of a sudden then they just they've got these hustles

24:34

and in my mind I'm thinking

24:36

I was like dude , this is doing

24:38

way too much . Like it's

24:41

easier to go to a go , get

24:44

a job and work for eight hours than it is to

24:46

go , you know to

24:48

plan out a .

24:49

You know get all this trouble . There's a lot

24:51

of work involved .

24:52

Yeah , there's a lot of planning , a lot of work

24:54

and I'm like , dude , this is not

24:56

worth a lot of stress on me because I wasn't really

24:58

, like you know , I guess , raised

25:00

like that I guess in a sense . But

25:04

so

25:06

I mean , yeah , just those little moments . Also , you

25:09

know , I have kids , I have a family that

25:11

you know I care

25:13

for and I love , and you

25:15

know , and I had all this shame and

25:17

guilt built up inside me and I didn't really

25:19

know how to deal with it . So

25:22

, you know , it's just

25:25

me trying to problem solve , like , how can I fix

25:27

this ? How can I , you know , I

25:29

guess you know fix the

25:31

things that I've done ? And I came , come

25:36

to the realization that I wasn't gonna be able to fix anything

25:38

while I was still using , because

25:40

I had tried that and that wasn't working

25:42

. So the

25:45

next best thing was to get sober .

25:48

And so how did you ? What was your

25:50

first big move , your first big step to

25:52

get that ?

25:55

So there

25:58

was one step that

26:00

I took where

26:03

I just kind of cut

26:05

cold turkey and I

26:07

was sober for about a week and I was

26:09

going to go . I

26:11

went to an interview , I had an interview and

26:14

that didn't

26:16

really work . So right

26:19

after that I had

26:21

the big first step that I really

26:24

took to get sober was to leave

26:26

California and to leave the

26:28

where I was at because it was to

26:30

leave Bakersfield really and

26:33

I left to South Carolina . My

26:36

dad had just retired out there a few

26:39

years before I had moved out there , and

26:41

so I had a place to go . My

26:44

dad and I I mean , we get

26:47

along on

26:50

a good day . I guess I know that he

26:52

really didn't want me to come out there . Were you

26:54

straight with him .

26:55

Did you tell him about ?

26:56

your circumstances . Yeah , he did . I don't

26:58

know that he , yeah , that

27:00

he really I don't

27:02

know if he wanted to really help me or not , but

27:04

I just kind of was like I kind of

27:06

I don't know . I kind of just showed

27:08

up and rather

27:12

he was . I knew he would help me if I showed

27:14

up , but I

27:16

know he wasn't happy with what the situation

27:19

I was in . I don't think he had a lot of trust in

27:21

me that I was actually gonna do what I was

27:23

gonna say I was gonna do , because I have brothers and

27:26

sisters that have went through

27:28

addiction and also , and

27:33

so they , you know , my parents understand

27:35

, you know some of the

27:38

symptoms of addiction the manipulation

27:40

, the lying . I'll do it this time

27:43

, you know , this time

27:45

I'm for reals . This time , you know , I'm

27:47

gonna do it this time , kind of .

27:48

Yeah and Bullshit

27:51

. Yeah yeah . Did

27:53

your parents struggle with any of that ?

27:57

No , my mom never did . My

28:00

mom's side of the family there's . There

28:03

is no , really

28:05

no addiction that I can think of . My

28:07

dad's side I had some uncles that didn't . My

28:10

dad didn't .

28:13

So you didn't grow up around it at all .

28:15

Other than my brothers and sisters .

28:18

How many brothers and sisters you have .

28:20

I've got . I've

28:23

got three sisters and

28:26

a

28:28

brother and a step brother .

28:32

You would think . Seeing other people

28:34

struggle and all the crap that they go through , you would

28:36

think that would be . You know

28:38

a lesson Like that's not

28:40

what I'm gonna do but

28:43

you end up right in the fold .

28:45

But you don't think that it's gonna happen to you

28:47

. It's not , it's , it's that

28:50

that'll never happen to me . You know

28:52

type of attitude .

28:54

Well , you , know , my parents were both , you

28:56

know , addicts , so

28:58

it was that

29:02

that that disease was just laying

29:04

dormant . It was just something , you know . You

29:07

know the the at the right time , you know whatever

29:09

it was . And then just

29:11

to come along and and

29:14

spark it up whenever

29:16

that was . And I

29:19

went in reverse , I missed

29:22

around with some weed . Alcohol was , even

29:24

though my dad was now alcoholic . I never really

29:26

it didn't become my thing

29:28

, you know . But

29:31

I started with with

29:35

, with meth . That

29:37

that was my geez

29:39

. I've said it on this program . I did it

29:41

and I was like you know

29:43

I could , I could now I could

29:46

tell you that everything changed in that moment . I

29:48

was like this is just everything

29:50

I want , you know , in

29:53

a , in a a little plastic

29:55

bag , you know . And

29:57

then I went to . When

30:00

I stopped , I went to

30:02

through a residential rehab and then

30:04

I had four

30:06

years clean and

30:09

I had hurt my neck

30:11

and I started

30:13

, and then a doctor prescribed me Vicanin and

30:15

then it was 10 years

30:17

of addiction to . You

30:19

know , all the opiates

30:21

in the circle , you know , just

30:24

getting more and more powerful , and then the

30:26

fentanyl patches . I used to bust

30:28

my fentanyl pouch patches and I used

30:30

to rub that shit on my gums and under my

30:32

tongue . Someone told me I could do that and

30:35

and then I

30:38

went and I went to the . It

30:40

was just got so bad , I got desperate , went to the methadone

30:43

clinic and I was on methadone for a year

30:45

. I tapered , they tapered

30:47

me , and then I went back

30:50

to meth , you know so

30:52

, as I circled back and I was like shit

30:54

, you know so

30:56

kind of a revolving door

30:59

there of sorts . But

31:01

you know it

31:04

was in my family and then I worry about

31:06

my kids , you know . So

31:08

, you know .

31:10

Yeah , do you think , though and I'm

31:12

just asking this do you think , had

31:16

you not been exposed to

31:19

it via your doctor because you got injured

31:21

, that you would ever come across an issue

31:23

like that ?

31:27

I don't know .

31:28

It's hard to say but a lot of what ifs , but

31:30

you know it's just those receptors , man , once

31:33

the opiate hits

31:35

.

31:35

That's what it was viking in the Because

31:38

he told me oh , take a couple

31:40

of them , you're a big guy . So I took two vikin' in and

31:42

it reminded me of that

31:44

buzz I got from doin' meth and

31:48

it was like , oh , this is great , and

31:50

it's prescribed by a doctor . Then I had three doctors

31:52

and I've

31:54

said that on this program , all unbeknownst to

31:56

each other , all writein' me prescriptions

31:58

all the time Before

32:02

they tightened everything up . It

32:04

was terrible , you know it's , but

32:07

yeah , I mean , you

32:11

tell me , you're telling us your doctor is just

32:13

like it's candy . You

32:15

just get six months and then he

32:17

hits you with 180

32:20

Norco and 15

32:22

patches and says have a nice day . You're

32:24

like hell . Yeah , you know .

32:27

I mean it was the same . It was goin'

32:29

there once a month and

32:32

he would ask what's your pain level

32:34

? And I always said nine . You

32:36

know Cause ? I'm not 10 , cause I'm not ? Cryin'

32:38

, but I was always a nine , and it was just

32:40

like I mean , come on , I

32:42

mean just like the way I said it , you know , Just nine

32:44

. Like it's like .

32:45

every time it's the same it's

32:48

almost like the when

32:51

they brought out the medical weed

32:53

cannabis , you , you you , you , you

32:55

you you , you , you , you , you , you

32:58

facetime them and you know they you . What

33:01

do you , what do you hurtin' on

33:03

this ? And I was like , well , I'm gonna say this . Okay

33:05

, you know , it was less

33:07

than two minutes .

33:08

That was the bridge from opiates

33:10

to meth . For me , medical marijuana

33:13

.

33:13

So where marijuana is

33:15

a gateway drug for you .

33:18

For an addict . I believe it is . Yeah , you

33:20

know , I just think it is . It can

33:23

be A soaking alcohol . Yeah

33:25

, you know , it's

33:27

a bridge to something . You know , if

33:29

you have an addicts , you know the

33:32

mind , you know I

33:34

mean you couldn't be addicted to anything .

33:36

I know people that are addicted to weed , and so

33:38

yeah , that seems to

33:40

be the hardest thing to get to get

33:42

off of for a lot of people now . Oh , I

33:44

see .

33:45

We've seen people in our meetings struggle with

33:47

coming off of marijuana . And

33:49

it's like back when I was smoke

33:52

, when I back in my you know adolescence smoking

33:54

weed and stuff you could just quit smoking .

33:56

Yeah .

33:57

Because the potency wasn't there like it is now . It's

34:00

so potent now that it's .

34:02

Oh yeah .

34:03

You get locked into a true addiction

34:05

with that Sweating it out

34:07

. I've seen people Vomiting

34:11

, you know , from withdrawals and stuff . You know

34:14

no appetite , losing sleep , you

34:16

know . And you've seen it , it's just terrible

34:18

. It's crazy . Who would have ever thought it's

34:20

right up there with and

34:23

all the addictive substances ?

34:26

To kind of go back to your question . You

34:29

know , if my doctor never prescribed me

34:31

that would I've , you know , used meth

34:33

, or you know , and

34:35

I just I kind of had to think back like to that

34:37

. Around that time when I started getting , when I started taking

34:40

it , you know I was really against meth

34:43

, like like that was like one thing

34:45

, like I was like I'm never going to do , I would never , because

34:47

I seen what it did to my , my brothers and my sister . So

34:50

you know , I had an idea of how bad it was

34:53

and what you know people go through whenever

34:55

they're using it . So

34:58

I mean , there's

35:01

a good chance that maybe I would have never

35:03

experimented

35:05

with meth . You

35:08

drew it online . Yeah , well , I

35:10

did . But I did use meth because

35:12

I was going through withdrawals and I was trying to get off of

35:14

opiates you know that was my , my

35:17

trick that I was going to use to

35:20

get off , but at the same time , you know

35:22

I was I don't know , I still can't

35:24

really say , but

35:26

yeah .

35:27

You think of the timing of that too ? You walked in on that

35:29

dude doing it . You just

35:31

right from you know , right place

35:33

at the time , and then it's like , oh

35:35

sure if it'll help me stop

35:38

feeling like shit because I

35:40

know opiates withdrawals are awful .

35:42

Yeah , and that's what I was . I mean , I was , you

35:44

know , I was going through like I would stop . I

35:48

was a couple of months period . You

35:50

know , wherever I walked in and

35:52

there was and it was offered to me was I

35:54

was going like it was . I was a couple of

35:56

months into like I would stop

35:58

and I would make it for a few days and I would , you know

36:00

, relapse it , I would stop , and then , you know . So

36:03

it was just kind of like this really up and down , but

36:06

yeah , it was like perfect timing that that happened

36:08

.

36:11

I'm sorry no , I'm good .

36:12

I was gonna say so . Did you when

36:14

you went and stayed with your father

36:17

? Did you get

36:19

any type of like , any clinical

36:22

support or any type of medical

36:24

help to with

36:26

your addiction , or did you just ?

36:28

I did not . So

36:31

right

36:33

before I had lost my job I'd went to

36:35

two

36:39

residential treatment centers and I had left

36:41

both of them early

36:43

, two weeks early . And

36:46

I went to another IOP

36:48

program

36:51

and I left about a month

36:53

and a half in and

36:56

that was like right before I lost , right

36:59

before I had lost my job . And

37:04

then so then

37:06

I went on that three year spurt

37:08

of using meth and not having anything

37:11

. And then when I went

37:14

to my dad's in South Carolina it

37:16

was during COVID . There

37:19

wasn't very many resources available

37:23

at that time . I remember trying to call

37:25

like AA and NA

37:27

. They had online stuff , but

37:29

at that time I

37:32

wasn't online .

37:34

I did AA through

37:36

COVID too . Didn't work

37:38

.

37:39

Oh , I did NA on Zoom

37:41

.

37:42

Yeah , that's why I always ask you about

37:44

how you do , because

37:48

you're one of the most

37:51

dedicated guys to your meetings

37:53

that you attend and

37:55

you do everything through Zoom .

37:57

Yeah , 95%

38:01

, maybe even more . I go to the

38:03

, we

38:05

go to the occasional . We try to go

38:07

at least twice a month to aspire

38:09

and then hit the . But the

38:12

alumni meetings are , you know , we do

38:14

check-ins , so

38:17

it's that's . It still

38:19

has therapeutic value , but

38:21

it

38:24

just it works if you they always

38:26

say it works , if you work it , if

38:29

you do

38:31

work , the program it'll

38:35

work . You know , zoom meetings

38:38

alone aren't going to do

38:40

anything .

38:42

Yeah , just you know there's a comprehensive approach . Well

38:44

, we discussed that the other day . You know , meetings

38:46

alone doesn't help .

38:47

It's gotta be comprehensive . You gotta you

38:50

know you gotta dig deep . You gotta do

38:52

things like I'm not saying for everybody

38:55

, you know you gotta get some

38:57

kind of program in your life that's gonna

38:59

cover everything , whatever that

39:01

is .

39:03

Yeah at least for me . Yeah , what

39:06

was that like for you , eddie , cause you

39:09

? You didn't go to a program

39:11

out there , did you ?

39:12

So when I was in South Carolina

39:14

and I was doing , you know , trying to find a program

39:16

, it so happens , you know

39:18

, and I and

39:22

I don't , I don't , I mean it gets religious

39:24

on you guys , right now but okay

39:28

. So before I'd got

39:30

sober , I was not , you know

39:32

, religious . I didn't go to church or anything . I'm

39:35

in South Carolina at the time . There's

39:38

the Bible Belt , the Bible Belt . Yeah

39:40

, my dad was telling me that you know , you're in the Bible

39:42

, you're in the Bible Belt . I'm like what do you know ? What does

39:44

that mean ? You know , and like so , my , my

39:47

girlfriend at the time . She went with

39:49

me . She left with me to South

39:51

Carolina , so we both went and

39:55

she asked me she's like , she's like , do you believe

39:57

in God ? And I'm like I

40:00

don't know Something kind of clicked . You know , I

40:02

noticed like I was really hesitant

40:04

on responding

40:06

to her and

40:09

that was probably worth thinking

40:11

. That's where my life

40:13

started to change . I

40:16

say like I didn't do a

40:19

12 step program , I did a one step program

40:21

that was turning my life over to Jesus . That's

40:23

great . And I started going to church

40:25

. I got , and

40:28

my parents have gone to church , so

40:32

we started watching their church online from

40:35

South Carolina and

40:38

yeah , and

40:41

that's ever since

40:43

I've been sober . Since I , since

40:45

, within like the first week of being in South

40:47

Carolina , I have either

40:51

attended church via Zoom until

40:53

we actually found a church . And

40:55

when we after South Carolina

40:57

, my wife she's my wife now so

41:00

my wife and I moved to Nebraska and we

41:02

found a church there . We actually

41:04

flew out here and I got

41:06

baptized at my parents' church

41:08

down here on Discovery Church in the White Lane

41:10

. So , yeah

41:17

, the pastor over there Pastor

41:19

Jason he's . You know . His big thing was , like you know

41:22

, wake up in the morning and spend

41:24

five minutes through the word , five minutes in prayer and

41:27

five minutes in worship , and I've been

41:29

doing that pretty much every day . That's

41:31

great . Yeah .

41:35

That's good . My mom

41:37

is a one-stepper and she's been

41:39

. She's been clean for over 30

41:41

years , oh wow . And so

41:44

as her husband , my stepfather , he's

41:46

the same thing one-stepper . He

41:50

turned his life over in a little church

41:52

up in the mountains and that was it Same

41:55

. He's got over 30 years and

41:57

so some

42:00

people it works . You know what I'm

42:02

saying , but for

42:05

me that's where it started . for

42:07

me was

42:09

a spiritual journey and it worked

42:11

, but

42:14

I completely , I

42:16

lost sight of everything

42:19

. I just you know , because I

42:21

wasn't married at the time , I was young . And

42:23

then I got married , and then profession , and

42:25

then kids , and then everything else , and then

42:27

God was non-existent in my life , and

42:30

so I can't say that I ever

42:32

put God first in my life ever again

42:35

until this moment , until

42:37

until .

42:39

Yeah , I think I'm a little like you in that

42:41

, because I Wanted

42:45

to . Yeah , but I

42:47

grew up in a Christian household and

42:50

I went to a Christian

42:52

high school and

42:56

it's always

42:58

been something that's always

43:00

been there . But

43:03

I

43:05

don't know if it's , I

43:08

don't know if it's just the connection that we

43:10

have , but within those rooms

43:13

or those meetings that we have , they

43:16

, that's where I've

43:19

never felt closer to God than

43:22

today , even

43:24

when I was in church

43:26

itself and I don't know if

43:28

it was . You know , it's

43:31

really just probably me and

43:33

my perspective on things

43:36

and not wanting

43:38

to give up control , and now that

43:40

I have , you know , there is space now for

43:42

God . Mm-hmm . But but

43:47

yeah , you know what

43:49

was that ? Intrigues me what you said

43:51

about you were hesitant

43:55

to tell your girlfriend

43:57

at the time , your wife now

43:59

. But that

44:01

, the God question , what

44:04

was it about that ? Was it because you just

44:06

didn't know , because

44:08

it doesn't sound like you had other

44:10

than your parents kind of going ? You

44:12

really didn't have any idea was it ?

44:15

I just didn't . I didn't really have any belief

44:17

in God . I

44:19

was very . I

44:22

just I didn't believe in God . And

44:24

I think that when she asked

44:26

me and I hesitated

44:28

, and I noticed

44:30

like I hesitated and I was , I started

44:32

questioning , like I realized

44:35

I was actually I

44:38

for some reason I felt like afraid to say

44:40

that I didn't believe in God . When she asked

44:42

me and and

44:46

it just kind of I

44:49

never had been afraid to

44:51

have that conversation on why I didn't

44:53

believe , because I would have all these great

44:55

reasons why God didn't exist .

44:57

So you were very against . So you had

44:59

an idea of God which was there was

45:01

no God .

45:02

Yeah .

45:03

But it yeah , okay .

45:05

Well , that makes sense , because now

45:07

you're you know , but

45:10

again the timing was perfect . The

45:12

person you love just happens to be she's

45:14

asking you a loving question . You

45:16

know what I'm saying . She's like do you believe in God ? And

45:18

you're like it's

45:20

a great question . And for you to sit

45:22

there and you know you're

45:25

like she planted some , there's some

45:27

, there's some good seed there . She threw that in

45:29

there . You know , it was a simple question

45:31

, that's it . You know

45:33

, and you

45:35

know it's one

45:37

of the . It's one of the steps . We came to believe

45:40

that a power greater than ourselves ourselves

45:42

could restore us to sanity . You

45:44

know it's not an instantaneous thing . You

45:47

know it's gotta . It's gotta be the

45:49

soil . You know the old , all the . You

45:52

know the , the

45:54

symbolism and stuff . Yeah , some

45:57

seed was thrown on some some good

45:59

soil there , because you were at

46:01

this point . I think you were so desperate . You're just like . You

46:03

know I need something . You know , and

46:06

that was yeah , that was

46:08

that .

46:08

desperation is a requirement .

46:10

Yeah , I also think that , coming

46:12

through my like I

46:15

thinking back , like there was

46:17

also like that realization , like that

46:21

I was putting

46:23

, that I had put drugs

46:26

, I was putting meth so far above everything

46:29

else in my life that I was actually like worshiping

46:31

, you know , meth like a God

46:33

, like you know . So it was like that

46:36

had so much control over me . There

46:38

has to be something else that can counteract

46:40

that .

46:41

Yeah , I , and

46:44

I think that's where the room for me Cape

46:46

and was , because I realized that

46:48

that alcohol was

46:50

my God Definitely was . I

46:52

thought about it . I couldn't , you

46:54

know I , I worshiped

46:57

alcohol the

47:00

way that God wanted me to worship him . You

47:03

know the it was my first

47:05

thought . It was okay

47:09

, where am I gonna get some

47:11

more at ? Where ? How

47:13

am I gonna get the money to get it ? You

47:15

know , that's the type of effort

47:18

. That's why , when , when I , when

47:21

people talk about excuses , you

47:24

know , in groups and stuff like that , about , you

47:26

know , not making meetings or not , you know

47:28

not not putting their best foot , not

47:31

putting that full effort into it , I

47:33

mean , you did it for for your

47:36

drug of choice , why would

47:38

you not give yourself the chance to

47:41

? You know that that was something

47:43

, that that was an eye-opening moment

47:45

for me was like man

47:48

, I gotta do recovery . The

47:51

way that I , the way that

47:53

I drank , you know , and that was

47:55

all the time , didn't matter

47:57

if I was sick , didn't matter if my

47:59

kids were sick , didn't matter if I had

48:01

to , you know , take my kids somewhere

48:03

. It , I mean it didn't matter . So

48:06

that's the

48:08

type of effort that

48:11

I need to put forward . Maybe

48:13

not for everybody , but

48:15

that I have to put forward

48:17

in in being , in

48:20

recovery , you know , and

48:22

having that connection , that

48:24

, that conscious

48:26

, intentional connection

48:29

with God , you know , not just

48:31

you know , because

48:34

something that's always stuck with me , you

48:36

know . I heard somebody say this a while back

48:38

and it

48:40

was . It

48:42

was never like it was that time that

48:44

it was hard for you to explain

48:47

that if you believed in God or not . For

48:50

me it's never been hard , it's always been yeah , I

48:52

believe in God . So , you know , it

48:54

was all I was always . That was never

48:56

an issue for me . You know , I

48:59

could be drunk and tell you yeah , you know

49:01

, I love God , you know . But

49:05

somebody had said

49:07

, I heard a pastor say one time he

49:09

says you know , even

49:12

the devil believes in God , you

49:14

know , so there's nothing without

49:17

the belief is not , is

49:22

I don't want to say irrelevant

49:24

, but it kind of is . It's

49:27

your effort to choose

49:33

him as a God and to

49:35

worship him the way . You

49:38

know , I worshiped alcohol , you

49:41

know .

49:43

And to continuously

49:45

build that relationship with him . Right

49:47

, yeah .

49:49

Yeah , that's it . It's

49:51

an active , evolving , it's

49:54

not stagnant , it's a you do , your

49:56

, your , your praise and prayer , and

49:58

you said it at the meeting . The last meeting I attended

50:01

with y'all it was . You said what you

50:03

do in your quiet time , in your private time , before

50:05

, yeah , anybody

50:07

gets to see your door , whatever that's . That's

50:11

what it counts , you know , and that's when I do it

50:13

. I'm up at five in the morning and

50:15

. I'm sending these

50:17

guys messages five by five , thirty I'm

50:20

sure I I annoy the crap out of them .

50:22

Oh . Blocked

50:27

me no , I get it there . I get it

50:29

when I wake up but I

50:31

am I .

50:32

Put my praise music on . Yeah , as

50:35

soon as I get to the kitchen , it's on . Even

50:37

before that , though I am as Soon

50:40

as I am conscious I've trained myself

50:43

to start surrendering , yeah

50:46

honestly yeah that is . That is when I

50:48

start surrendering . Good morning , Good morning . I mean , I'm I'm

50:50

taking a leak and I'm like good morning

50:52

Lord . Yeah you know , honestly , I'm not even

50:54

joking . No , yeah , I feel you , and so

50:56

, because I got to do that , I got it . That

50:59

is number one , that's that's where it's got to be , and

51:01

then I start doing my readings and

51:04

so then I start , and then I start , I start

51:07

sharing , you know , and that's

51:09

I . This morning everybody was up nice and

51:11

early and I quietly excuse myself . I

51:14

was like , and they know , they're like , all right , see you

51:17

when you know , see you want , because they know that that's

51:19

that's what's working for me

51:21

and they want to keep that there , you know so

51:23

.

51:25

What ? What does that look like for you , eddie ? I know you

51:27

say that you do that , but

51:30

I know it's different for everybody . Like you

51:32

said , you know he gets up and he's

51:34

using the rational I'm same way , I'm

51:36

a shower prayer . You know I'm a

51:39

laying down on my pillow .

51:40

still , yeah , say

51:44

when I first started doing this it's so funny

51:46

like I would do . I would literally

51:49

be like waking up out of bed , like I

51:51

would instantly start to start to pray . You know

51:53

like and it happened so

51:55

many like , it happened for a while . Like

51:57

I mean , just you know where I was just like halfway

51:59

asleep , but like waking up and I was started

52:01

praying , thanking God , for you know everything

52:04

and you know I wouldn't . You know you

52:06

know , nothing I have is mine . It's all you know . Just

52:08

like you know , given thanks and and

52:11

grace and and I was

52:13

like man , is this , is this like

52:16

, is this ? Can I do be doing it ? Because I

52:18

like I would fall . Sometimes I'd fall back to sleep .

52:27

You know , because that looks different for

52:29

you know , you have kids , I have kids . Yeah

52:32

you have to work , I have to work . You know

52:34

it's just everybody's got their lives and

52:37

it's not like you Because

52:40

I know that for me , when I thought

52:42

about having a connection

52:44

with God , you know , my , my dad

52:46

was real Intentional

52:50

about it . One thing that he was , you

52:53

know , is every morning he would

52:55

, he would get

52:57

to breakfast because that's where he would do his , his

53:00

reading at every morning , and

53:02

he would do it intentionally

53:05

, you know . You know , and I always

53:07

Look down

53:09

on myself or thought , you know

53:11

, shameful in some way

53:13

, because I didn't do it like the way

53:15

like the way he does it , or like you

53:17

, the way you see in a movie ? You know , everybody

53:19

gets up . Yeah , you know everybody

53:21

holds hand and everybody prays . You know

53:24

what does that look like for

53:26

for an everyday person

53:28

? You know that . That that

53:30

you know , because I'm not , I'm

53:33

not my dad , I can't do those

53:35

, I can't . I Just

53:38

don't have that that regimented

53:40

Like the way he

53:42

does . Yeah , but for me it's

53:45

, you know , it's on

53:47

the pillow , it's in the shower , it's , but

53:50

I think I think where

53:52

we were , I missed the connection

53:54

. It's , it's

53:57

what I do now and it's it's

53:59

, like you said , as soon as you wake up . It's

54:02

from then on . Mm-hmm . It's from then

54:04

on . It's not Just

54:07

a morning thing , yeah right , it's not just

54:09

a yeah , it's

54:11

, it's a constant .

54:13

You know , giving it up , giving it up , giving

54:15

it up it takes , it takes practice , yeah

54:18

, and you got to keep working at

54:20

it . Yeah , it's like everything else , it's

54:22

like a muscle . Yeah , you got to build it and

54:24

you build that relationship

54:26

and then , but from what I've learned

54:28

is God will meet you

54:30

there , you know . You know , as long as

54:32

you're putting in the , the

54:35

whole hearted effort , you know

54:37

you're gonna , you're gonna know

54:39

he's there . You know I had

54:42

a question for you . I'm sorry . We , you

54:45

know , you

54:47

know I'm not trying to chase anybody , that's , you

54:49

know , away from watching this podcast

54:51

. You know , if they're , you know , no , no , absolutely no

54:53

, no , god .

54:55

But you know , yeah , but .

54:57

I , but I , this is what I believe and I

54:59

believe it works . When you were out

55:01

there , did you run into

55:03

any Messengers

55:05

when you were on the street ? You know , because

55:07

I've I've seen a couple

55:10

people . I was never myself In

55:13

that predicament , but I have talked to some

55:15

people that were

55:18

. I talked . I ran to

55:20

a guy at a Taco Bell and I

55:22

, just I , I offered him some cash . You

55:25

know a couple . I had a couple bucks . I was like here , he's all . No

55:28

, he's , I'm okay , and I go

55:30

, you're okay . He's like , yeah , I choose to be out here

55:32

, man , he's I . I love my life out on the street

55:34

, you know , and he was , he was sober

55:36

and you know , I looked at him a little more

55:39

and he was , you know , he wasn't in rags

55:41

or anything , he was . You know , he was dressed okay , you

55:43

know , but he was . I Didn't

55:46

. I don't know if he was a godly person or not

55:48

, he just had that countenance . You know , you

55:50

look about him like he was just that piece with with

55:53

whatever he was doing . So , you

55:55

know , I was just wondering if maybe you come across someone

55:57

out there that was Not

56:01

doing any of the stuff that was going

56:03

on around you .

56:04

Not that I can . I can but

56:07

remember , particularly Not

56:10

the top of my head .

56:12

Yeah , yeah , was there any other

56:14

influence on on you

56:18

seeking out to God that you

56:20

that you I Mean

56:23

other than obviously you're in the Bible

56:25

Belt and your girlfriend's asking the

56:27

question ? Was there anybody

56:30

early on that ?

56:33

that I Know

56:36

that my

56:43

mom has my mom

56:45

since I've been sober . She

56:47

told me that she keeps

56:49

a prayer list and that

56:52

you know she's you

56:55

know , and that she prays , that you know of course I'm

56:57

on there and that she's been praying for me

56:59

for years , that God would work a miracle

57:01

and that

57:03

I would come in to believe

57:05

in them and that I Would

57:08

start making better choices in my life

57:10

. So when she told me

57:12

that and this was after I'd gotten

57:14

saved and and baptized

57:17

, and you know , she showed me this

57:19

prayer list it just that kind of like

57:21

. It kind of gave

57:23

me , like it , the chills kind of inside

57:25

. It was like dang like she and she's showed

57:27

me some other other prayer lists that she's had

57:30

and she said if she's she makes , she'll

57:32

make these prayer lists every year and

57:34

Almost all the all the prayers

57:37

that she's prayed for , these prayer lists

57:39

of you know happened to these

57:41

people and it's I don't know . It's kind of yeah

57:43

, so I had people praying

57:46

for me .

57:46

I know that what's a

57:48

Other than yourself

57:50

? And in , in , in your , in

57:53

, your , in your . I know we're talking about

57:55

recovery .

57:56

Yeah .

57:57

But is there anything else that

58:00

you have seen happen because of God's

58:02

work ? Anything

58:05

major I

58:10

mean him getting you to where you're

58:12

at now is a big is , is

58:14

a big deal . But I'm just wondering

58:17

if there's , if you're seeing that and in

58:19

other areas I mean

58:23

just the

58:25

, the person that I am now .

58:27

I mean , you

58:30

know , I , I'm

58:32

a completely different person today

58:34

than I Was in the past

58:36

. I mean , there's been so many different

58:39

things in my life that have changed

58:41

and have

58:44

Fallen

58:47

in place , I guess since I've been sober

58:49

. I feel like , like

58:53

you know , there's a lot of miracles

58:55

that have happened in my life and

58:57

I , you know , and I Just

58:59

me sitting here today is a miracle

59:02

. You know , to . You know

59:04

, some of the stuff that I had went through I mean , there

59:06

was some there's . You

59:08

know there's a lot of stuff that happened that I went through

59:10

when I was out on the street Hi , on meth

59:12

, like that I'm . I still sit here and I

59:14

don't even know , like that you know why

59:16

I'm still alive . You know , like I'm

59:19

talking about involving guns and you

59:21

know , in just some

59:23

Crazy situations

59:25

that I was in , you know , yeah

59:30

.

59:31

Definitely had it . When

59:33

? When did you discover , or

59:35

when ? When did you realize that or

59:38

when did you hear you're calling

59:41

that that this was

59:43

what you wanted to do

59:45

to help people that were in it ? You

59:47

know similar circumstances .

59:49

Um , I think , when

59:56

I was a year sober

59:58

and I

1:00:00

right about a year , I had this , this

1:00:04

, really these strong cravings

1:00:06

. You know , the pause kicked in and

1:00:10

I was Right

1:00:12

at one year sober , like within

1:00:15

a couple days from my soap , my clean date

1:00:17

, and I I

1:00:19

was telling my wife , or told her , like I want

1:00:21

to go use , like I want to go , like I was like on

1:00:24

the edge , like I wanted to get , I wanted to go look

1:00:26

for drugs , like I was like let's go , like we can find

1:00:28

it I know I can find it and

1:00:30

I was ready to just

1:00:32

throw everything that I had accomplished up

1:00:34

into that point out the window . And , and

1:00:38

, um , luckily

1:00:40

, you know , my wife was like you know , you

1:00:42

need to calm down . Like you need a

1:00:45

, you need a . You know that's not

1:00:47

what we're , you know we're that's not a good

1:00:49

idea , we're not gonna do that . So I

1:00:54

had found a substance abuse counselor

1:00:56

to go To

1:00:59

go talk to when I

1:01:01

we were living in Nebraska and I

1:01:03

wouldn't sit down and talked with him and you

1:01:06

know , he kind of helped me through some stuff

1:01:08

and and he

1:01:10

was a , he was

1:01:12

a Christian guy and and we'd

1:01:15

sat down and talked and he

1:01:18

started talking about how he became

1:01:20

a counselor or substance abuse counselor and

1:01:22

that kind of just laid

1:01:24

on that . That Started

1:01:27

setting on my heart and like and I've always wanted

1:01:29

to , even when I was out there using

1:01:31

on the streets , you know I I

1:01:33

had . I Feel

1:01:36

like I kind of came from a little bit of a different

1:01:38

background than a lot of the people not

1:01:40

that I'm any different or I don't think that

1:01:43

, but just you know I've really some

1:01:46

of those people hadn't had the chance . A

1:01:48

Lot

1:01:51

of people that I was out there on the

1:01:53

street using meth with didn't ever have

1:01:56

a chance at life and I felt like they deserved

1:01:58

a chance at life and

1:02:01

they didn't . They don't know what they're

1:02:03

, they're missing out

1:02:05

on . I guess I feel like there's something

1:02:08

more that they can be you know better for

1:02:10

their life . I feel like they deserve a chance at happiness . I've

1:02:12

seen so many broken people and and

1:02:15

hurt people that were just filling

1:02:17

in these voids with meth and

1:02:21

you know I

1:02:23

wanted , I wanted to try to help them

1:02:25

. You know I feel like they , you know

1:02:27

, maybe at least deserve a

1:02:29

chance . You know , just through some of the conversations

1:02:31

I had with certain people that I had ran into . So

1:02:36

I always kind of had that , and then even

1:02:38

on the street like we can't help anybody where you're high

1:02:40

you know , so

1:02:42

Give me to help yourself . Yeah

1:02:45

.

1:02:46

It's funny , we talked about the one year when

1:02:49

people start approaching the one

1:02:52

year Clean yeah , for you

1:02:54

it's two and I .

1:02:56

I didn't have much struggle during

1:02:58

the one year . I didn't really Struggle

1:03:01

did , I know no

1:03:03

, but you said that you made the comment

1:03:06

that it always happens on your and you're like

1:03:08

your , year two For

1:03:10

you .

1:03:12

Oh .

1:03:12

Yeah relapse .

1:03:13

Thank you , thank you .

1:03:15

Yes , which

1:03:17

just passed right .

1:03:19

Yeah , because I'd always Put

1:03:22

, just put the brakes on my addiction

1:03:24

you know , whatever the circumstances

1:03:26

were , so two years was

1:03:28

always the , you know the

1:03:30

, and always this this part of the

1:03:32

year . So I remember I talked about a little

1:03:34

bit in that meeting . Yeah and so when

1:03:36

I came to two years , you , even my family

1:03:39

, they're like Two years

1:03:41

, you know , you know what's gonna

1:03:43

happen yeah yeah , you know , but they weren't

1:03:45

. I think they were a little more relaxed this

1:03:47

time around because they knew .

1:03:50

They see you work in a program . Yeah

1:03:52

and so , but the one

1:03:54

year I've never even

1:03:56

it makes sense now because

1:03:58

you know one year

1:04:01

is when , yeah , everything was

1:04:03

really very chaotic in

1:04:05

a person's life , probably , whatever

1:04:07

that was , whatever the you know yeah

1:04:10

, I , I almost feel I

1:04:13

guess it's a little bit off the topic but

1:04:15

I always feel a little guilty

1:04:18

when I'm in a what , I'm

1:04:20

in the room , sometimes with

1:04:22

people that are just you

1:04:27

know , the first couple of months or days or whatever

1:04:29

, because I don't Really

1:04:33

feel Like

1:04:35

I have much too . My

1:04:38

life is so good .

1:04:40

Yeah .

1:04:40

I , you know that I don't have

1:04:42

. You know , it's

1:04:47

almost which is supposed to be

1:04:49

that way . It's what I'm supposed to not have

1:04:51

, those same issues that they're having anymore

1:04:54

. You know I'm supposed to

1:04:56

be getting figuring out how to live

1:04:58

a better life , but you

1:05:01

know I , you

1:05:04

know I almost sometimes feel

1:05:06

like I have nothing to say , because

1:05:08

I , because I but you do

1:05:10

, I listen to you talk .

1:05:11

Yeah , you know you're you're

1:05:14

, you're living your program

1:05:16

. I mean you're of service , you're

1:05:18

going to the meetings , still you're doing

1:05:21

all these things and I see you , you

1:05:23

know , I see you come in with

1:05:25

your , you know your wisdom , you

1:05:28

know I listen , I'm like , yeah , that's great , you

1:05:31

know you're you

1:05:34

and just your presence . You know , because

1:05:37

you've got so many , how many

1:05:39

days do you have now ? Anyway , 624

1:05:42

there you go , yeah , 600

1:05:44

, yeah .

1:05:44

When the guy with day one , day one

1:05:46

, wondering what the hell am I doing here , looks

1:05:49

at the guy with 624 days

1:05:51

yeah it's like , okay , well

1:05:53

, maybe I'm in the right spot , you

1:05:55

know yeah , and I look at him

1:05:58

and I think , man , I'm in the right spot

1:06:00

. Yeah , you know .

1:06:01

Yeah , we , yeah because

1:06:03

the guy sitting behind me

1:06:05

at the last meeting had a day

1:06:07

. This is my first meeting

1:06:10

day , you know . And then , on the way I

1:06:12

was talking , to Terry

1:06:14

, yeah he's been on this program . So I

1:06:17

was like man . You remember day one . He's

1:06:19

like , oh god , he thought he was gonna

1:06:22

die . I thought I was . It

1:06:24

was like you know . So , yeah , that , and

1:06:26

that's that's the

1:06:28

reminder . You know it's just the

1:06:32

. You know it's

1:06:36

the reminder . That's nothing , nothing's changed . You

1:06:38

know , everything is still garbage

1:06:41

right back in that life . You

1:06:43

know that's that's a nice

1:06:45

reminder . You know , even the guys

1:06:47

that are 30 , 60

1:06:50

, 90 days , all the way up to , you know

1:06:52

, right , 1300 days

1:06:54

, or I can't , I can't , but this

1:06:56

is great .

1:06:57

You know , these are my examples , you know

1:06:59

at you know , being

1:07:02

that you do have a lot of time , what

1:07:04

is you

1:07:07

said ? The prayer and and the

1:07:09

meditation and and getting in

1:07:13

the company of God every morning is

1:07:15

what's is what's helped you mm-hmm

1:07:17

is there anything else that you use

1:07:19

, or any like

1:07:23

tools that you use when

1:07:25

you ? you know , I know that it's it's

1:07:27

probably not happening all the time that you're getting

1:07:29

cravings now , but the one

1:07:32

that thought does cross your mind , you

1:07:34

know , or can you talk about

1:07:37

if it does and

1:07:39

how it does . And then what ? What

1:07:41

do you do to to ? To

1:07:44

turn that around yeah

1:07:46

.

1:07:46

So you know , of course there's , you know

1:07:48

, I

1:07:51

think the the most like I

1:07:53

, the only time I really get trip , my cravings

1:07:56

get triggered , but that

1:07:59

I can at least think of anytime recently has

1:08:01

been like having like a drug dream

1:08:03

and kind of waking up a little bit triggered

1:08:05

some . I don't always , you

1:08:07

know , I don't know , but it's not

1:08:09

like anything intense , it's just

1:08:11

, you know , just kind of like what was that about ? yeah

1:08:13

kind of like move on . But

1:08:16

I don't really get super

1:08:19

triggered anymore . But

1:08:24

I mean

1:08:26

I , other than battling a lot of stress

1:08:28

, you know , sometimes like at my mind

1:08:30

, tends to obsess over things or

1:08:33

or just

1:08:35

, you know , run rapid

1:08:37

. I guess I just try

1:08:40

to think positive

1:08:42

. I guess I use positive self talk

1:08:44

a lot and

1:08:47

I I think

1:08:49

if I didn't try to , if I didn't

1:08:51

have positive conversations with myself

1:08:53

all the time , I would definitely

1:08:56

start , I would

1:08:58

maybe get triggered more , my mind would

1:09:00

start going to places that you know it

1:09:02

shouldn't be . I guess I don't know if that

1:09:04

makes sense .

1:09:05

Yeah , yeah , do you see

1:09:07

that the disease manifests

1:09:10

itself in other ways in your

1:09:12

life ? You know , like not purely

1:09:14

just drug you like , you know the self-obsession

1:09:17

, the , the , you

1:09:19

know , self loathing , the self , any of those you

1:09:22

know ? Do you see that and identify ? Those characteristics

1:09:25

yeah those kids and say , oh damn , there's the addiction

1:09:27

um

1:09:29

is it yummy in

1:09:31

the defects ?

1:09:32

so this is one thing you know . So I mentioned

1:09:35

I haven't done the 12 steps , but I've thought

1:09:37

like man , it'd be nice to have a sponsor because I need somebody

1:09:39

outside looking at me yeah calling

1:09:41

out my character defects , because I , you

1:09:43

know , we can't really judge

1:09:46

those on our own . I mean , we can if

1:09:48

we read about them , learn about them . We can and and I

1:09:51

think that I , I think

1:09:53

that I've learned enough about the different

1:09:55

, you know different types of character defects , that

1:09:57

I've tried to correct those with myself

1:09:59

. But I

1:10:02

don't know , like you

1:10:05

know , I still feel like it I would . It would be nice

1:10:07

to have somebody else kind of you

1:10:09

know to hang out with and kind of get to know a little

1:10:11

bit better . That could you know

1:10:14

, tell me , like , if you

1:10:16

know I'm on the right track , at least I guess . But

1:10:19

as far as you know my addiction

1:10:21

manifesting other things , I mean

1:10:24

, I go to school , I'm still going to

1:10:26

college , I've I don't

1:10:28

know that I've I've just really

1:10:31

managed to like

1:10:33

I have a really tight

1:10:36

schedule I guess between school

1:10:38

, you know , church

1:10:40

work and

1:10:44

seeing my kids spending

1:10:46

time with family , studying

1:10:48

, I don't know , I haven't really

1:10:50

seen it

1:10:53

manifest into like gambling

1:10:56

or you know any other really

1:10:58

area

1:11:00

or anything .

1:11:01

Yeah , not that I can think of stepwork

1:11:04

would be good because I

1:11:07

need direction . Yeah , and I

1:11:09

didn't know . I , you know , I consider

1:11:11

myself an educated man and stuff , and but

1:11:15

until I and

1:11:18

that was our , our topic of discussion

1:11:21

in our meeting today was calling

1:11:24

a defect a defect , and

1:11:26

so it mentioned a sponsor

1:11:28

. And so a sponsor , you know it's

1:11:30

, he's unbiased , you

1:11:32

know he's there and he's gonna say , yeah

1:11:35

, he's gonna be honest with you because he's got

1:11:38

, you know , why wouldn't he be ? And but

1:11:41

yeah , I mean , even in the steps it's , we

1:11:43

ask God to remove all these defects of character

1:11:45

, whatever those are , you know . And

1:11:49

then you know they have a lot of . You

1:11:54

know , I'm not , I'm not pointing to any fellowship directly

1:11:56

, but you know specifically

1:11:59

, though there are those when

1:12:01

you look into some

1:12:05

of the fellowships or some of the

1:12:07

program or the 12-step programs . They call

1:12:09

them fellowships . But

1:12:11

yeah , they dissect that and

1:12:14

I mean I mean it

1:12:17

might be , it might be worth looking into

1:12:19

yeah . I mean there's . You know

1:12:21

there's a million sponsors out there and you can find anybody

1:12:23

that would . You know you're not , you're

1:12:25

not . You know , you're not a newbie yeah

1:12:28

, got some . You got some clean time under

1:12:30

your belt and I think

1:12:32

that any sponsor would you'd be , you'd

1:12:35

be , you know you'd

1:12:38

bless them yeah you know , just because

1:12:40

they'd be like , oh heck , yeah , this is . You know I can

1:12:42

work with this . Yeah , you know you're not all fresh

1:12:44

and yeah

1:12:47

, yeah , really you know . Well , you know

1:12:49

I'm a drug counselor . Hey , counselors needs or

1:12:57

therapists .

1:12:58

Needs that the C therapists too .

1:12:59

So yeah , I mean I know , but I think

1:13:02

you know , yeah , I would . I would say that would probably

1:13:04

be a good move because , like he was saying

1:13:07

, you know about tools and stuff . You

1:13:09

know . That would be . That would be

1:13:11

great and I think you'd be .

1:13:13

I think it would probably take

1:13:15

you to another level in recovery benefit

1:13:17

me yeah , yeah , yeah , cuz I think like I

1:13:20

don't know

1:13:24

if I know how to say this correctly , but you

1:13:26

know , god is the . I've

1:13:30

learned that if

1:13:33

I'm not worshiping God

1:13:35

, I'm worshiping something else , and so

1:13:37

we talked about that a little bit and God

1:13:39

being a center part of my life

1:13:41

. But having

1:13:45

having

1:13:47

people around me that

1:13:50

can say and

1:13:53

help me recognize things

1:13:55

is a

1:13:57

I think , is a big

1:14:00

, is a big help , and

1:14:02

I've I've

1:14:04

I've only experienced

1:14:06

good things down this road yeah

1:14:08

it's not like with drugs , where it's , you

1:14:12

know , maybe your first hit and it's good

1:14:14

and then that's it , you know . Next thing

1:14:16

, you know , you're just chasing and chasing and

1:14:19

you know you lose everything

1:14:21

yeah , you're not losing everything , yeah

1:14:24

, losing everything this way , yeah , yeah , yeah

1:14:26

. I mean you

1:14:28

, if anything . I think that

1:14:30

like , at least for me , you know

1:14:32

it's , it's definitely worth

1:14:35

. You know that's what I was gonna

1:14:37

ask you to do . So do you have a

1:14:39

mentor , even in the church , or anything

1:14:42

that ?

1:14:42

so I go to talk to . I do go to Bible

1:14:44

studies every Monday night

1:14:47

. I don't . I don't have a mentor

1:14:49

, but you know , I

1:14:51

mean I do , I'd go to Bible studies , and that's you

1:14:54

know yeah , but , and I pass through

1:14:56

your clothes or anything no

1:14:59

, no , and I I

1:15:02

other than so like my mentorship

1:15:06

or my mentoring that I get right

1:15:08

now is out of self-help books , yeah

1:15:14

, and I kind of would like to have

1:15:16

you know someone that's actually there , that sure

1:15:18

I can talk to you .

1:15:19

That can you know yeah

1:15:22

it , yeah

1:15:25

, I think it . I don't , I don't think

1:15:27

it'll hurt anything . I think

1:15:29

it's . I think it's a good

1:15:31

thing . What ? What was

1:15:33

life when you were a

1:15:35

kid ? How did you , how

1:15:37

were you brought up , how were you ?

1:15:38

raised . I

1:15:41

was raised , I

1:15:43

mean , had a fairly good childhood

1:15:45

. I was born

1:15:48

in Fresno . My

1:15:50

parents divorced when I was two . My

1:15:52

mom moved here to Bakersfield and

1:15:56

you know I moved here with

1:15:58

her and and so

1:16:03

but I had , you know , I had a fairly

1:16:05

good childhood . My mom was , you know

1:16:07

, loving , caring , I had

1:16:09

. My stepdad has been in my life since

1:16:12

I was about two or three , I think

1:16:14

it was three when

1:16:16

he came into the picture . You

1:16:18

know , I have a pretty

1:16:21

good idea of how like a

1:16:23

family

1:16:26

should kind of be , I guess . Or

1:16:28

as far as not being toxic

1:16:30

, my mom and my stepdad never

1:16:33

had alcohol in the house . They never

1:16:35

drank . They were never . I've never

1:16:37

seen my mom drunk . My

1:16:40

dad he

1:16:43

did drink and he he did party

1:16:45

. You know , and that's another

1:16:47

thing you know I say like , and my parents never

1:16:49

use drugs . I'm gonna say my dad was

1:16:52

probably an alcoholic and I just

1:16:54

wasn't there enough or round him enough

1:16:56

to really know that , but

1:17:00

I'm pretty sure that he was . He

1:17:03

wasn't , I mean he was .

1:17:06

He wasn't really in my life

1:17:08

a lot , but he

1:17:11

was there and supportive whenever he could be , I

1:17:13

guess did that affect

1:17:15

you in any way now

1:17:17

looking back now in retrospect

1:17:20

, or having your stepdad there kind

1:17:23

of take that .

1:17:25

I think having my stepdad there definitely

1:17:28

kind of filled that , that

1:17:30

fatherly role that my dad wasn't really

1:17:32

present for . But

1:17:36

I think that there's

1:17:39

, you know I , you

1:17:41

know , I don't know , yeah

1:17:48

, I

1:17:51

don't know , I don't as far as I'm sure it affected

1:17:53

me in some way . Yeah , I'm sure

1:17:55

that there was , there

1:18:00

was definitely , you know I , I

1:18:03

don't know , just I'm sure there was , there

1:18:05

was stuff that that did affect

1:18:08

me by my parents , you know , not being together , but

1:18:14

what is

1:18:16

you

1:18:18

get to do this all the time ?

1:18:20

but I'll ask it anyways what is something

1:18:22

you would tell somebody who

1:18:24

is on the cusp , thinks

1:18:27

they have a problem , knows they have a problem

1:18:30

and wants

1:18:32

to quit ?

1:18:57

if they were on the cuffs on the fence , I

1:19:00

mean , I would probably

1:19:03

sit down and ask him

1:19:07

to you know , alright , let's weigh the pros

1:19:09

and cons , you know , and try to figure

1:19:11

out , like what you know

1:19:13

, you know

1:19:15

what direction they're wanting to go in with

1:19:17

their life . Some people aren't ready . You know

1:19:20

, no matter how ready you want them to be and

1:19:24

you know it's , it's , it's

1:19:27

you can , only you can't really push

1:19:29

them . You've gotta , you know

1:19:31

, you gotta show them the evidence and

1:19:33

they can see it . And they can either be like

1:19:35

well , using

1:19:38

drugs is still more beneficial

1:19:40

to me right now , or using alcohol just

1:19:42

seems a lot more fun than it's

1:19:44

stuff isn't that bad , you know , it's not

1:19:46

that bad yet . So it's kind of like

1:19:48

it's

1:19:52

kind of trying to show them like

1:19:54

where they're at in their life and like , hey

1:19:56

, you know it's , you know , probably

1:19:58

time for you to get sober , or it is , you know

1:20:01

. And at the end

1:20:03

of the day it's kind of up to them yeah

1:20:07

, I agree with you , know

1:20:09

it's .

1:20:12

You know , because some people you

1:20:15

know , like that guy that lives on the street that

1:20:18

you're talking about , you know there's

1:20:22

people like that . They're okay

1:20:24

with not having anything they're okay

1:20:27

and that's not , that's not a

1:20:29

bad thing . But

1:20:33

you know , I know

1:20:36

just for myself , the the

1:20:38

life that I have

1:20:41

today , and let

1:20:43

me say that I

1:20:45

nothing's not much

1:20:47

has changed in my

1:20:49

home aspect . So I didn't

1:20:51

, I didn't lose everything . I

1:20:54

didn't lose my wife , I didn't lose my kids . I

1:20:56

was pretty damn close but I didn't and

1:20:59

the

1:21:01

way I say that , because the

1:21:04

only thing that has changed is

1:21:06

me , you know , that

1:21:08

is my

1:21:11

perspective , is my , and

1:21:13

I had to want that to in

1:21:15

order for that to happen yeah you

1:21:17

know the I had to dig

1:21:20

deep and find out why

1:21:24

I was running to that

1:21:26

alcohol

1:21:28

and drugs and that particular lifestyle

1:21:31

that it that that

1:21:34

I , you know . I had

1:21:36

to get fed up with it

1:21:38

. Your rock bottom is different than his

1:21:40

rock bottom , for sure my rock bottom sure

1:21:42

.

1:21:43

I heard someone say in the meeting today . He

1:21:45

said I came to the point in my life when

1:21:48

I decided to put down the

1:21:50

shovel and ask someone for a ladder to

1:21:53

get himself out of the hole . You know , so

1:21:56

that's just . It's

1:21:58

different for everybody . Yeah , it's

1:22:01

, it's . It will take

1:22:03

a beating . We will get our butts kicked

1:22:05

for a very long time if we're , if

1:22:08

we're allowed to , or if we , if we come

1:22:10

back from it .

1:22:11

Yeah , you know , if we're that lucky , yeah , we're

1:22:13

that lucky yeah , but we will .

1:22:16

We will take a beating man . We were resilient

1:22:18

. Addicts are resilient .

1:22:19

Oh yeah unfortunately we , I had

1:22:22

, I had . I

1:22:24

had to tell you this , because when

1:22:26

you first came in the

1:22:29

first day or so that I saw you there

1:22:31

, he was your first day too

1:22:33

.

1:22:33

It was .

1:22:35

I Thought

1:22:37

you were a pastor . I was like , oh shoot , they brought

1:22:39

a pastor in for church . I

1:22:42

was like pastor Eddie . So

1:22:44

now , that's a kind of so Whenever

1:22:47

I talked to my wife and I tell her what she says

1:22:49

with who did it today ? And I was all pastor

1:22:51

Eddie . But

1:22:56

Teddy was in here

1:22:58

Last

1:23:02

week or week before . He was our

1:23:04

last podcast and

1:23:06

you know

1:23:08

, you just never know Like

1:23:10

you , I would , I , I don't

1:23:13

picture you in that type

1:23:15

of situation of , you

1:23:17

know , being on the street for three years and

1:23:19

like Teddy , you know , he , he

1:23:23

, you know he talked about being

1:23:25

locked up , you know , and he was locked

1:23:27

up for three years , you know

1:23:29

, and he's just like it's nothing

1:23:31

, you know . And then he's

1:23:33

overdosed what ? Four or five times , you

1:23:36

know , and I just never , you

1:23:39

know . So it's amazing that People

1:23:42

that have gone through so much Like

1:23:44

you because I remember

1:23:46

my uncles and my aunts

1:23:48

, when they they were , they

1:23:51

used heroin and

1:23:54

they were just a

1:23:57

heroin addict , they were never coming out

1:23:59

of it . They had already , they've accepted

1:24:01

it , they've , you

1:24:05

know , said , okay , that's the way my life's gonna

1:24:07

be . So to see guys like you

1:24:09

, guys like Teddy , to

1:24:12

come out of it , with your three overdoses

1:24:14

, with the living on the street , with , you

1:24:16

know , losing everything , to

1:24:21

see that it's not so much that you

1:24:23

came out of it , but to see that you saw

1:24:25

hope . You

1:24:27

know that you saw a Glimmer

1:24:32

of hope , or or , and maybe that

1:24:35

was just that you just didn't want to live that

1:24:37

way anymore or whatever , but

1:24:39

you had seen that along the way and it's

1:24:42

good to . It's good to see guys like

1:24:44

you , guys like Teddy to

1:24:46

Chris , of course , and other guys you know

1:24:48

, girls to you know , come out

1:24:50

of it , because you know I've had

1:24:52

a lot of people on and now

1:24:54

and it's , you

1:24:57

know , people have gone through some stuff . You

1:24:59

know , like you said , resilient because

1:25:02

they put themselves through a lot

1:25:04

of to where you know

1:25:06

what

1:25:08

is your hope ? I mean you've lost everything . You

1:25:11

know , you , you , you , you

1:25:15

know for me I

1:25:17

guess it's so hard for me to see , because I didn't lose

1:25:20

everything you know that that I

1:25:22

think it . I think that's why it's so amazing

1:25:24

to me to see guys like you . Guys

1:25:27

like like Teddy is because

1:25:29

you know for you

1:25:31

to be the position that you were in and just

1:25:33

still Say you know what , I'm digging

1:25:35

myself out of this hole . I'm

1:25:38

gonna stop , you know . Don't

1:25:40

dirt on myself .

1:25:42

I've got a girl in my meeting . I love her with

1:25:44

all my heart . She's one of my , my best friends

1:25:47

, and she lived in a tent . You

1:25:49

know she was . She was doing

1:25:51

heroin in the tent and she's

1:25:53

young , she's your age and she's beautiful

1:25:55

. Now she's the drug counselor . Oh

1:25:58

yeah . So she's got a yeah

1:26:00

, she's got her story and I've

1:26:02

heard of , I've heard , I hear them People

1:26:04

come back . Man , that's another part of the resilience

1:26:07

man is , if you know , if you , if

1:26:09

you are determined to get it together like

1:26:12

that and you and you , you know , find the

1:26:14

help you need . You

1:26:16

know she's , you

1:26:19

know I love her man , you know

1:26:21

I'll see you're at the convention coming

1:26:23

up in February , but she doesn't

1:26:25

live in town . But yeah

1:26:29

, it's just amazing . You know the . It's

1:26:31

one of those human conditions to survive . You

1:26:33

know , if you realize you're not going

1:26:35

to survive in your current state

1:26:38

of being , you know you find

1:26:40

another way that works . If that's what

1:26:42

your determination is , you know you're gonna

1:26:44

gonna find a way to live . You

1:26:47

know , and I can tell you right now that

1:26:49

we always say this you know someone

1:26:52

that's , you know , shooting dope

1:26:54

, whatever that you know , whatever their poison is

1:26:56

or Probably knows , they

1:26:58

have a problem . You know , probably

1:27:00

they're not gonna sit there and go . This is , you

1:27:03

know , they may have accepted it , you know , as

1:27:05

their problem and , like you're saying , your family members

1:27:07

are like this is it ? I'm a heroin addict . You

1:27:10

know , this is how I'm gonna die . But other people , something

1:27:13

talks to the , you know Right

1:27:17

, is able to to break through

1:27:19

the addiction for a minute and say this is there's

1:27:22

a better way . This is not normal for you , you

1:27:24

know yeah because we're not I . Can't

1:27:27

see him . I can't see you being

1:27:29

on the street , living out of your car , doing the things you

1:27:31

you told me you did

1:27:34

. I can't see it , you're , you're

1:27:36

. You're Eddie the the counselor

1:27:39

. You're the counselor at the place we go you

1:27:41

know I would never have known that . You know , I

1:27:44

can't see this guy , you know , putting

1:27:47

, putting a bottle before his family

1:27:49

. I know what he , how he loves his family , you

1:27:51

know . And then the stuff I've done and the people , yeah

1:27:54

yeah , and that's the thing you know

1:27:56

.

1:27:56

The disease doesn't , doesn't discriminate . No

1:27:58

you know , it doesn't care who you are , how

1:28:00

much you make . You know no

1:28:02

. Where you live . As a

1:28:04

matter of fact , the house that

1:28:06

I bought when I was 21 right was

1:28:08

right down here , off Panama and Bonavista . Oh

1:28:10

really yeah . Two-story really nice

1:28:12

house Lost it

1:28:15

yeah . So

1:28:17

yeah , yeah

1:28:19

.

1:28:21

It takes what it takes , not so much .

1:28:23

Yeah , yeah , yeah

1:28:26

, you mentioned , you know you

1:28:28

know some someone could be slamming dope

1:28:30

. You know they know they have a problem and and that's

1:28:33

kind of you know that's . You

1:28:37

know you got to kind of understand the

1:28:39

differences between , you know , admitting

1:28:41

that you're a problem and accepting it

1:28:43

. You know I'm meeting it , you're , you're

1:28:46

admitting it . You know , intellectually

1:28:48

, you know , yeah , I've got a problem . So

1:28:50

what you know , I know I have a problem , you can

1:28:52

tell me I have a problem . I know I have a problem kind of thing you know

1:28:54

, tell anybody I have a problem but I'm still gonna use . But

1:28:58

you know , until you accept that you have a problem

1:29:00

, you know

1:29:02

that that comes from inside . And

1:29:04

whenever you accept it , you

1:29:06

you realize that you have a problem

1:29:09

and that you need to do something about it .

1:29:12

So yeah , because it seems like at that

1:29:14

point they've just accepted this

1:29:16

is how life is gonna be for me , mm-hmm

1:29:21

. That's why that's one

1:29:23

of the things , one of the issues I I take

1:29:25

issue . One of the things I take issue with is that I Wasn't

1:29:28

working a program for so many years and now that

1:29:30

I'm working a program , it's it's

1:29:33

like this is just great . I

1:29:35

have everything I need to

1:29:37

survive and Keep

1:29:39

this addiction arrested , and

1:29:42

I can't understand why People

1:29:44

relapse from this point . You

1:29:46

know I was a chronic relapser but I didn't

1:29:48

have a program , but that was before I

1:29:50

knew I had a chronic disease too . So

1:29:53

now that I know all these , all

1:29:55

that , I know I have a heart

1:29:57

. I understand it happens , I know

1:30:00

why it happens , but and

1:30:03

I have people that I love dearly , some

1:30:05

of my closest people in my meetings that

1:30:08

relapse . They come back , oh , day one man , and

1:30:11

it's like oh , you know , we had a

1:30:13

guy with , with 12

1:30:15

years , relapse , but

1:30:17

he'll tell you what the holes were and is . I

1:30:19

think I was sharing that at that other meeting , the

1:30:23

last men's meeting , but it was . He

1:30:26

knew exactly what his problem was . His priorities

1:30:28

were not in his program . His

1:30:30

priorities were yeah you got

1:30:32

other things you know sex and

1:30:34

women and other things were that

1:30:37

. You know that was his dick , his addiction in

1:30:39

another form but and

1:30:42

it caused him to relapse . He relapsed up

1:30:44

here before he , you know , relapsed . Yeah

1:30:46

, it always happens mentally , and so

1:30:48

you know it's

1:30:50

just . You

1:30:53

know , I don't know , yeah , I sometimes

1:30:55

it's just me now and

1:30:58

I'm not being arrogant , yeah , it's not my ego

1:31:00

, I'm not saying oh , I'm not , you know .

1:31:02

You're so far removed from it .

1:31:04

You have the knowledge now because I quoted

1:31:06

you directly in a meeting . I said I Don't

1:31:10

know what a Some

1:31:12

tragedy in my life whether it happened

1:31:14

to my wife or my kids or something terrible

1:31:16

, you know , financially ruined some

1:31:18

, some catastrophic event in my life

1:31:20

Is gonna drive

1:31:22

me to do , you know , drive

1:31:25

me backwards , to using . I'd

1:31:27

like to think I'm prepared . Yeah you know

1:31:29

, I'd like to think that all this work

1:31:31

I've been putting into my program is gonna would

1:31:34

prepare me for something Such

1:31:36

an advantage , you know but you don't know

1:31:38

, until it happens .

1:31:40

You know , then , hopefully , just hopefully , you have

1:31:42

that well , the most recently

1:31:44

was my , my grandmother's death .

1:31:45

Yeah , you know that , but

1:31:47

the program proved itself . Yeah

1:31:49

, you know . So you

1:31:52

know . I just Well . I

1:31:54

don't know .

1:31:55

Do you have anything else you want to add ?

1:31:58

No , I'm so happy we had this conversation

1:32:00

today .

1:32:01

man , you blessed me really , I really appreciate you guys

1:32:03

inviting me out .

1:32:03

Yeah , thank you for coming and

1:32:05

.

1:32:08

What about the ? The question what would

1:32:10

you tell your younger self ?

1:32:12

Oh yeah , what would you tell your younger self

1:32:14

? And

1:32:17

you don't have to go back to when you were a kid

1:32:19

, but maybe when life

1:32:21

was good . You're working at that

1:32:24

11 year job

1:32:26

and and before drugs

1:32:28

started happening and the accident

1:32:30

, and you had your wife , did

1:32:32

you have kids at the time ? Mm-hmm kids

1:32:35

and your own little family

1:32:37

. Things were on the up .

1:32:44

I would tell myself to to

1:32:47

Go

1:32:49

to church and start working on building a relationship

1:32:51

with God .

1:32:55

Yeah , yeah

1:32:59

, that's a that's a tough question

1:33:02

. I don't . I Still

1:33:04

don't know what I could tell myself to get myself

1:33:06

to listen , listen . Yeah , to

1:33:08

listen Well , yeah

1:33:11

you know , but

1:33:14

you

1:33:16

know I . I would

1:33:18

hope that If

1:33:21

a relapse does happen , that

1:33:26

any knowledge that I gain now Will

1:33:30

Curb it right away

1:33:32

. Yeah you know . But then

1:33:34

, like you , you know yeah

1:33:37

, it was fentanyl , but still you

1:33:40

know , you , you , you

1:33:43

relapse and then you

1:33:45

overdose twice in

1:33:47

a matter of hours . You

1:33:50

know back to back , you

1:33:52

know . So you

1:33:54

are lucky to be here , yeah , so

1:33:57

All right guys . Well

1:33:59

, there's nothing else then . Appreciate

1:34:01

it . And thanks for I

1:34:04

really like having you in the groups . Been

1:34:07

God

1:34:09

send To everybody there

1:34:11

. You know , I think I

1:34:14

hear nothing but good things from Everybody

1:34:17

who attends , and that's with alumni

1:34:20

and and new people . So

1:34:22

I think I think you're doing a good job

1:34:24

and we appreciate you . Man

1:34:26

, Thanks for taking the time out . I

1:34:29

Know it's a job , but you know

1:34:31

you are you

1:34:34

. You can tell it's not just a job for you

1:34:36

, you know you . You seem to

1:34:39

Really try to

1:34:41

get down to some root causes

1:34:43

, even if it Takes

1:34:46

us forever to go to break or whatever . Appreciate

1:34:49

it , we do

1:34:52

really awesome .

1:34:53

Thank you .

1:34:54

All right , thank you , all right I .