0:00

Call them change makers,

0:02

call them rule breakers. We

0:04

call them redefiners. Join us in

0:06

conversation with daring leaders who

0:08

are creating extraordinary impact and driving

0:10

change from around the globe. Each

0:13

episode gives you a fresh perspective

0:15

on your leadership and career journey.

0:17

I'm Hoda Tahun, a leadership advisor

0:19

at Russell Reynolds. I'm Clark

0:21

Murphy, the former chief executive

0:23

officer and a leadership advisor.

0:25

And this is redefiners. Hello,

0:29

everyone, and welcome back to redefiners.

0:31

This is our first episode

0:33

in 2025 and the kickoff for

0:35

season five. I'm Simon

0:37

Kingston. Hoda is unable

0:39

to join me, sadly, today,

0:41

so I'll be flying solo on

0:43

today's episode, which, for reasons that will

0:45

become clear, is slightly terrifying. However

0:49

you celebrated them, I hope you all

0:51

had wonderful holidays and have a fantastic

0:53

start to the new year so far. Before

0:56

we get started today, just a quick

0:58

reminder to our listeners that you

1:00

can find all the episodes of redefiners

1:02

and the Leadership Lounge on YouTube. And

1:05

if you're currently watching redefiners on

1:07

YouTube, just hit the subscribe button

1:09

below so you don't miss an

1:11

episode. For our audio

1:13

listeners, don't forget to rate

1:15

redefiners wherever you get your

1:17

podcasts. We really want to hear your feedback. Today

1:20

we've got what is, in

1:22

many respects, a unique conversation. We're

1:24

going to talk to somebody who

1:26

knows firsthand what it takes to

1:28

hire and develop the best

1:31

in -class leaders, both

1:33

CEOs and of the C -suite, across

1:36

a whole range of industries and

1:38

someone who is himself a

1:40

true redefiner. He's redefining the

1:42

executive search industry because our

1:44

guest today is none other

1:46

than our own Russell Reynolds,

1:49

chief executive, Constantine Alexandriakis.

1:52

Constantine also serves on the

1:54

firm's board of directors. Prior

1:57

to taking on the CEO role, Constantine...

1:59

held numerous leadership roles across

2:02

the firm, latterly as

2:04

head of the Americas region. Now

2:06

in addition to leading the firm, he

2:08

continues to advise a host of

2:10

boards and CEOs for both public

2:13

and private companies on

2:15

the most significant leadership

2:17

issues they face. But he's also

2:19

practiced what he's preaching at a

2:21

corporate level in the provision

2:23

of advice on leadership development

2:26

and assessment and assessment. to

2:28

those leaders too. And he

2:30

has expertise in corporate governance

2:32

and board effectiveness and succession

2:34

planning, as we'll be discussing

2:37

in the course of the next

2:39

30 minutes. Constantine, welcome to

2:41

redefine us. Thank you, Simon. Great to

2:43

be here. Now, people will understand as

2:45

we enter a bonus season just how

2:47

unfair it is for me to be

2:50

left on my own with the boss,

2:52

having this conversation and Hoda owes me

2:54

for abandoning me for abandoning me in

2:56

this situation. But before we kick off

2:58

and get into the serious meat of

3:01

what we're going to talk about, can

3:03

you tell us a little bit about

3:05

your formation? Not so much as

3:07

a leader, but as a constant

3:09

team. And as a clue to what

3:12

might be interesting, perhaps as you

3:14

unpack that and your early formative

3:16

experiences, maybe you could

3:18

explain to our listeners the

3:21

Philotimo concept. happy to

3:23

Simon and you know I think

3:25

you might be able to tell

3:27

from my name that there's there's

3:29

a there's a Greek heavy Greek

3:32

influence there and both my parents

3:34

were raised in Greece my mother

3:36

was born in Egypt and but

3:38

raised in Greece my father was

3:41

born on the island of Crete

3:43

and they you know, lived

3:45

very interesting early lives and

3:47

kind of difficult lives at

3:49

that time. The Greeks were

3:51

kind of exiled from Egypt

3:53

when she was a young

3:55

child and they were refugees

3:57

in Greece and my father.

3:59

lost his father and his grandfather in

4:02

the Second World War. They were executed

4:04

by the Nazis when their village was

4:06

invaded. So I mention that because I

4:08

think part of my formative elements and

4:11

literally DNA has been around the importance

4:13

of family and... helping your neighbor and

4:15

doing good for others, which my parents

4:17

had to experience as they grew up

4:19

in those environments and as they came

4:21

to the United States for for education

4:24

and subsequently becoming university professors. So one

4:26

of the things I was raised on

4:28

was this concept of the Greek word

4:30

filotimo, which if you Google it, you'll

4:32

see there's no real translation, but the

4:35

meaning of it is around helping others,

4:37

giving of yourself, generosity, kindness, and treating

4:39

others with respect. And that's a key

4:41

element of the Greek culture. It's a

4:43

key element of the culture that I

4:46

was kind of raised with and it's

4:48

a key element of how I like

4:50

to work with colleagues and lead our

4:52

organizations and our clients. And that idea

4:54

of deep cultural formation is fascinating because

4:57

it comes through that sense of solidarity

4:59

that was clearly bred into you from

5:01

a very early stage. We'll get into

5:03

this a bit later perhaps, but to

5:05

what extent can that be... taught and

5:07

replicated in a business context? Or are

5:10

you born and raised with it? It's

5:12

a good question. I mean, I think

5:14

everyone, no matter what culture you're raised

5:16

in, there are values associated with that,

5:18

positive values, and ways of interacting with

5:21

fellow human beings that shape one as

5:23

they go through school and life experiences,

5:25

right? I think that the way that's

5:27

translated into organizations is through organizational culture.

5:29

and every organization. And most

5:32

organizations have a

5:34

culture and it's a

5:36

combination of the

5:38

shared values of the

5:40

people in that

5:43

organization and the sort

5:45

of the emotions

5:47

and the way that

5:49

community is formed

5:51

in that organization, the

5:53

way work gets

5:56

done in that organization.

5:58

So, and I

6:00

don't think any of

6:02

those things, Simon,

6:04

if I'm answering your

6:07

question correctly are

6:09

static. I think they're

6:11

pretty dynamic and

6:13

they can certainly evolve

6:15

as organizations evolve

6:18

and they certainly evolve

6:20

as the people

6:22

within that organization change

6:24

or as different

6:26

people come into that

6:29

organization, but also

6:31

as those individuals grow

6:33

and evolve their

6:35

leadership styles, evolve their

6:37

ways of working.

6:39

So, I think for

6:42

anybody, it's a

6:44

pretty dynamic experience throughout

6:46

their careers and

6:48

for any organization, it's

6:50

a pretty dynamic

6:53

activity. Well, I think we're going to

6:55

loop back to that both as it relates to

6:57

us here at Russell Reynolds and the wider industry,

6:59

but reverting for a second to you, from

7:02

that really rich family background,

7:04

how do you think your

7:06

time in law school shaped you?

7:08

What did it give you that you then

7:10

took into your career? Law school

7:12

was interesting. Law school is,

7:14

academically, it's a very challenging

7:16

experience, but it's also, it

7:18

really helps you think. I

7:21

think in my career, it's

7:23

helped me cut through information

7:25

or issues or topics. You

7:27

learn that in law school.

7:29

How do you figure out

7:31

what the key pieces of

7:33

information are in a cluttered

7:35

set of data and information,

7:37

and how do you build

7:39

results on those key pieces

7:41

of information? So

7:43

it's actually probably,

7:45

it's probably both

7:48

a benefit and

7:50

a curse. The

7:52

benefit is that

7:54

training allowed me

7:56

to really learn

7:58

how to get

8:01

to the bottom

8:03

of things and

8:05

to kind of

8:07

slice away the

8:09

noise and get

8:11

to the heart

8:13

of problem solving.

8:16

The curse is

8:18

probably... that sometimes it can help

8:20

me get to that in a

8:22

way that may not look at

8:24

all the noise in the system

8:26

and I've had this sort of,

8:29

I've needed to learn how to

8:31

balance that. And that was going

8:33

to be a question I had

8:35

because I think among colleagues you're

8:37

really respected for the clarity of

8:39

your analytical capability that almost forensic

8:41

legal training coming through perhaps. Is

8:44

that how you see yourself as

8:46

a leader, as somebody who leads

8:48

through persuasion and force of argument?

8:50

No. I could see that stereotyping

8:52

out there, but no, I see

8:54

myself more as somebody who kind

8:57

of listens, considers, and then tries

8:59

to help the team get to

9:01

the conclusion. Although I will say

9:03

that that... style has definitely evolved

9:05

through many years of different jobs,

9:07

different levels of responsibility, and so

9:09

on. I'm sure you've read Ty

9:12

Wiggins' book, The New CEO. He

9:14

talks a lot about the CEO

9:16

transition and how does one sort

9:18

of... evolved their approach in a

9:20

completely different job, which is what

9:22

being a CEO is. So I

9:25

think there are a lot of

9:27

parallels in how he describes that

9:29

with the journey that I've been

9:31

on and I know the journeys

9:33

that many other peers have been

9:35

on. And let's talk about that.

9:37

You became our CEO in 2022,

9:40

unlike some of the other people

9:42

we've interviewed on redefiners. It wasn't

9:44

in the context of an emergency.

9:46

It wasn't suddenly. It was planned.

9:48

And with that in mind, I

9:50

mean, how did you think about

9:53

the things that you chose to

9:55

do and the things you chose

9:57

not to do early on in

9:59

your time of CEO? Look, I

10:01

was, as you sort of said,

10:03

it's, I was very... lucky to

10:05

come into a role where the

10:08

firm was very successful. doing great

10:10

work for its clients day in

10:12

day out around the world, and

10:14

the situation was more of a

10:16

build on the greatness versus do

10:18

a turnaround or a transformation. But

10:21

the complicating factor, which I think

10:23

is true for many CEOs today,

10:25

is the challenges, the macro challenges

10:27

outside our doors were multiplying at

10:29

a significant pace, whether it

10:31

was global geopolitical unrest, which

10:34

had been, you know, not

10:36

really been an issue for

10:38

many many years. Social upheaval,

10:41

rapidly advancing technological opportunities and

10:43

challenges were and are moving

10:45

very quickly and advancing. And

10:48

any enterprise today needs to

10:50

hit those head-on. So to

10:53

answer your question, what I...

10:55

What I did quickly was

10:57

I felt like we needed

11:00

to hit the ground running. And as

11:02

a result, I had the benefit of

11:04

having a six month transition period. But

11:06

during that time, before it was even

11:08

in roll, with the team, we kind

11:11

of designed what the team structure, senior

11:13

leadership team structure would be going forward

11:15

and named it and put it in

11:17

place so that January 1st, we were

11:19

off and running. So that's, that was

11:22

a big thing of what I did

11:24

when I came into the role. I

11:26

wasn't gonna. wait for a year to

11:28

kind of evaluate and decide. I've been

11:30

in leadership for a while and

11:33

kind of have a good sense

11:35

of where we should take things

11:37

next from a leadership team structure

11:39

perspective. I think what I didn't

11:41

do, which was the other part

11:44

of your question, was really want

11:46

to upset the Apple card in

11:48

terms of how we serve clients

11:50

and how our clients saw us.

11:52

I wanted any leadership change at

11:54

Russell Reynolds to be really seamless

11:56

to our clients. So that was

11:58

that was that was. were important.

12:00

And knowing the organization, as

12:02

you did, were there any surprises

12:05

when you became CEO, were

12:07

the things that you hadn't

12:09

anticipated about the farm, about the

12:11

task that awaited you as CEO?

12:13

The surprises were the number of

12:15

surprises that there were. And it

12:18

wasn't really surprises so much about

12:20

the organization, but it was surprises

12:22

about the job, which is especially

12:25

surprising when you've been a consultant

12:27

to CEOs and boards about... CEO

12:29

topics for many years, but one

12:31

of the CEOs quoted in Thai

12:34

books as it perfectly. I think

12:36

many of us, and I've heard this

12:38

from other CEOs, I'll mention that in

12:41

a second, but many of us thought

12:43

of the CEO role as a bigger

12:45

job than our previous role, but the

12:47

reality is that it's not a bigger

12:49

job. It's a completely different job. The

12:52

way you think about things, the way

12:54

you get things done, the things that

12:56

you get done, those are all... very

12:58

different and you know perhaps not evenly

13:01

that was a surprise for me but

13:03

it's also something I've heard from many

13:05

many other CEOs across industries who came

13:07

into the role from not having been

13:10

a CEO before so that was a

13:12

big surprise and that led to many

13:14

other surprises in terms of the types

13:16

of things I chose to spend my

13:18

time on how I did that. the

13:20

ways of getting things done. We also

13:22

had the benefit of being a brand

13:24

new leadership team, but also there were

13:27

difficulties with that in that many of

13:29

those people hadn't led before at that

13:31

level. So we were all sort of

13:33

learning on the job. And if you were

13:35

to pick out a couple of those, the

13:37

differences in the way you are a CEO

13:39

now from how you began and how you

13:42

expected, what are some of those things in

13:44

terms of how you do what you do? Well,

13:46

I think the biggest thing was, and,

13:48

you know, there's, there's, there's quite a

13:50

bit of literature about this, but I,

13:52

I think it's mostly false, which is that,

13:54

which is that there's, there's a, there's

13:57

a lot of thinking out there that

13:59

says that the, the most successful

14:01

CEOs are the ones

14:03

that drive execution of

14:05

the strategy. And I

14:07

think the concept may be

14:09

accurate, but those CEOs aren't

14:11

really driving execution. What I've

14:14

learned is that those CEOs

14:16

are sort of inspiring others

14:19

to drive. execution. That was

14:21

a big learning for me

14:23

and I think it's especially

14:26

hard for, and I've heard

14:28

this from CEOs who came

14:31

through operational roles into the

14:33

CEO role or similar capabilities,

14:35

you have to completely shift

14:38

your thinking, your communication

14:40

toolkits and the way

14:42

you interact with your

14:44

leadership team to kind

14:46

of enact that. the kind of

14:49

business that we are. I mean,

14:51

ultimately, our product is the advice,

14:53

the expertise that we offer to our

14:55

clients. So we are the quintessential

14:58

people business. What in your

15:00

experience is distinctive about

15:02

leading that kind of

15:04

businesses, distinct from a

15:06

manufacturing business or another

15:08

sector? I don't know. I may, Simon, I

15:10

may just disagree with this question.

15:13

I think, you know, 10 years

15:15

ago, our business, which is... Most

15:17

of its assets are people, people

15:19

and proprietary information, but people at

15:21

the heart of it certainly is

15:23

a people business, but I think

15:26

in the last decade or so, manufacturing

15:28

businesses, other sort of

15:30

hard asset businesses. though the

15:32

importance of people and the

15:35

importance of Human capital in

15:37

those organizations to actually differentiate

15:39

them and drive growth I

15:41

think is increased I think

15:43

to a large degree all

15:45

of us have become people

15:47

businesses in the last decade

15:49

but certainly a professional services

15:51

firm like ours has people

15:54

at its core more so

15:56

than other organizations that have

15:58

other assets that they that

16:00

they work with. But I

16:02

think the tenets of that

16:04

are the same as another

16:06

businesses where people may not

16:08

be the only key to

16:10

it, which is we are

16:13

nothing without our people. Our

16:15

people are what drive our

16:17

culture, which is one of

16:19

our greatest assets. And the

16:21

reality is that. Those people need

16:23

to be nurtured every day by

16:25

me, by the leadership team, by

16:27

their peers. Every day the issues

16:30

are different, but the level of

16:32

nurturing, the level of support, the

16:34

level of trust building, the level

16:36

of community, the level of fun,

16:38

all those things needs daily nurturing.

16:40

But I would say again, I

16:42

don't think that's necessarily unique to

16:44

a business like ours. I think

16:46

it's unique across all types of

16:49

organizations. You've been at Russell Reynolds now

16:51

for... nearly 20 years. It's not nearly. You

16:53

said nearly at first it's it's exactly 20.

16:55

Exactly 20 years. What I was going on

16:57

say, because I have to bear mind you

16:59

on my boss, you joined in your early

17:02

teens. Yes. And of course in that time,

17:04

as we mentioned right at the

17:06

beginning, you've led searches for some of

17:08

our most prestigious clients and at the

17:11

most senior levels, but you've also pioneered

17:13

some of the other things that we

17:15

do as leadership advisors and assessment

17:18

in Russell Reynolds was something that

17:20

you helped create. Can you talk about

17:22

why that was important to you then

17:24

and why it's so central to the

17:27

farm strategy now? Well, I'd

17:29

say assessment is a piece

17:31

of it, but our industry,

17:33

which for many, many years,

17:35

we're a 55-year-old business, was

17:37

characterized by executive recruiting, executive

17:39

search. head hunting in some

17:41

societies is evolving. And it's

17:43

evolving because our clients want

17:46

more things from us and

17:48

different things from us than

17:50

they've wanted in the past.

17:52

They don't just want the

17:54

person to be found and

17:56

put into the seat. They want

17:58

us to help retain. They want us

18:00

to help improve the effectiveness of

18:02

their leadership teams, of their boards of

18:04

directors. They want us to help

18:07

them develop their succession pipeline. And

18:09

as a result, we're having

18:11

to redefine our industry. And we're

18:13

actually kind of defining a

18:15

new category, which includes the search

18:17

pieces of what we do,

18:19

which will always be important. And

18:22

these other things around search

18:24

that are also increasingly important to

18:26

our clients. And that category

18:28

is the leadership advisory category, which

18:30

has sort of been nascent

18:32

or dormant or whatever you want

18:34

to call for many years.

18:36

But our legacy search category is

18:38

moving into that new category

18:41

of leadership advisory. And our

18:43

objective as Russell Reynolds

18:45

is to define that category

18:47

and to be viewed

18:49

as the best firm in

18:51

that category. And as part of

18:53

that, there must be a

18:55

shift in some ways from a

18:57

focus on individual leaders to teams

18:59

of leaders. Clearly, we are never

19:01

going to abandon that focus on the

19:03

most senior leaders, but groups of

19:05

people that we help to identify,

19:07

to develop, to plan succession for.

19:09

Can you talk a little bit

19:11

about that, about best in class

19:13

groups of leaders? Yeah, I want

19:15

to say there's a shift in

19:18

focus, but it's an add on

19:20

focus. Yeah, and our

19:22

business for many years has

19:24

been focused on the individual and

19:26

still is and will be.

19:28

But the additional focus of how

19:30

those individuals interact within an

19:32

organization on a leadership team, on

19:35

a board of directors is

19:37

certainly something that our clients are

19:39

asking us about increasingly. And

19:41

just realistically, the way a leadership

19:43

team works together has always

19:45

been important. But when you

19:47

think about some of the

19:49

technology that is starting to

19:51

appear as an opportunity for

19:53

companies to really advance their

19:55

businesses, generative AI is not

19:57

technology that sits in a

20:00

particular. part of the company, it's a

20:02

tool across the entire organization that

20:04

can really enable teams and especially

20:06

leadership teams to think about the

20:09

business in new ways and how

20:11

work it's done within that business,

20:13

what the opportunities are, how quickly

20:15

you get to those opportunities. We've

20:18

worked through our CEO, AI labs

20:20

with CEOs around the world on

20:22

this topic and all of them

20:24

say that. leadership teams need to

20:26

kind of transform how they work

20:29

from a collection of vertical silos

20:31

to truly working together horizontally across

20:33

the enterprise in order to really

20:35

take advantage of the new opportunities

20:38

that technology presents today. We'll be

20:40

right back with Constantine Alexandrakas, but

20:42

first we'll hear from Aaron Zolner,

20:44

a managing director in our New

20:47

York office. Aaron will outline our

20:49

latest research on the skills that

20:51

leaders need in a fast-changing world.

20:53

We all know the world is

20:56

changing, but what does that mean

20:58

for leadership? It's clear many executives

21:00

are struggling to keep pace with

21:02

growing complexity. Across the world, turnover

21:05

is in an all-time high, and

21:07

tenures at an all-time low. Clearly,

21:09

the skills that have traditionally helped

21:11

leaders ascend to the C suite

21:13

are no longer enough to help

21:16

them stay there. So how does

21:18

leadership need to evolve? In our

21:20

research, we reveal the seven capabilities

21:22

that leaders will need to navigate

21:25

an ever more uncertain world. and

21:27

unlock their full potential. Find out

21:29

what these skills are, and more

21:31

importantly, how to develop them in

21:34

our paper via the link in

21:36

the show notes, or visit Russell

21:38

reynolds.com. And now back to our

21:40

conversation with Constantine. We had the

21:43

opportunity to participate in one of

21:45

those AI labs for the social

21:47

impact sector, and it was fascinating

21:49

both the potential for transformation, but

21:52

also. to be with a group

21:54

of leaders who were humble enough

21:56

to be learning together at once.

21:58

in a way what they didn't

22:00

know to each other and discovering

22:03

the potential of that technology

22:05

amongst other things together was

22:08

a really fascinating part. I think

22:10

of the access that we have

22:12

providing those sorts of advisory services

22:14

to people who are shaping the

22:17

way the world is led. It's

22:19

always fascinating to get into a

22:21

group of peers and hear the

22:23

frustration, the vulnerability, especially on a

22:25

topic like AI which for the

22:28

past couple of years has

22:30

been everywhere has almost become

22:32

a cliche but now we're

22:34

in a period of really

22:36

entering what does it actually

22:38

mean how can organizations really

22:40

thoughtfully leverage it and where

22:42

is it going to take

22:44

organizations companies and industries going

22:46

forward and there are no

22:49

easy answers to any of

22:51

that and CEOs and other

22:53

leaders really appreciate being able

22:55

to get together and brainstorm

22:57

that in a way that

22:59

helps them move the ball

23:01

just a little bit forward

23:03

each time. And you talked

23:05

compellingly about that evolution

23:07

of our firm into our

23:10

leadership advisory business. When we

23:12

think about the other parts of

23:14

the body Russell Reynolds, what

23:16

else have we added? You talked

23:18

about Ty Wiggins' book and the...

23:21

CEO transition insights

23:23

that he's helping us bring

23:25

to clients. What are the

23:27

other the other tools that we've

23:30

added as we make that

23:32

move ourselves to being truly

23:35

the leadership advisory fund that

23:37

we want to be? So our

23:39

mentor is one where we've

23:42

partnered with esteemed and storied

23:44

retired CEOs and CFOs in

23:46

many parts of the world

23:48

to bring them together with

23:50

newer CEOs or CFOs who

23:52

might need a mentor who's

23:54

walked in their shoes and

23:56

can serve as a sounding

23:58

board for them. Artemis is

24:00

another effort where CEOs have

24:03

nominated the female leaders from

24:05

their organization who are potential

24:07

future CEO successors have nominated

24:10

them to be part of

24:12

a one-year program that's a

24:14

development program for future CEOs

24:16

designed by women for women

24:19

and has has really brought

24:21

to the market something that

24:23

has not existed before. Our

24:26

top team effectiveness consulting work

24:28

is helping leadership teams large

24:30

and small really improve the

24:32

way they work together and

24:34

how they support their organizational

24:37

needs. There are many other

24:39

examples like that, but those

24:41

are just those are three of them.

24:43

Next week, the leaders of the world

24:45

or many of them are going to

24:47

be meeting in Davos and amidst

24:50

a cacophony of challenges and

24:52

disruption and volatility. in

24:54

the world. This question is,

24:56

it's not so much cheeky as unfair,

24:59

because if you knew the answer to it,

25:01

you wouldn't need to go. But what do

25:03

you think is going to be on the

25:05

agenda? What do you think is going

25:07

to be foremost in the minds of

25:09

that group of leaders? I don't think

25:11

the topics are going to be too

25:13

surprising if I had to kind of

25:16

predict what the informal

25:18

conversations are going to be.

25:20

I think geopolitics and alliances, terror

25:22

regimes. the impact of new leaders

25:24

in various countries around the world.

25:26

I also think what's been true

25:28

the last couple years will

25:31

probably be true again in

25:33

terms of technology innovation, the

25:35

opportunities that come with it,

25:37

and both the opportunity and

25:40

challenge related to generative AI

25:42

integration and digital transformation will

25:44

be important. And this one

25:46

might be the most important

25:48

one of all, this sort

25:51

of notion of trust across

25:53

organizations, across entities, trust in

25:55

one's government, trust across societies,

25:57

cross border trust. That's, that's.

26:00

probably one that is

26:02

also going to be talked

26:04

about a lot, not only

26:06

from a societal and government

26:08

perspective, but also as organizations

26:10

come together with their customers,

26:12

how do we reinforce trust

26:14

in a time of geopolitical

26:16

uncertainty and diplomatic roadblocks in

26:18

certain parts of the world? Because

26:21

that links in a way to

26:23

this idea that we live in

26:25

an era not just of misinformation,

26:27

but also active disinformation in some

26:29

places. What's your advice to senior

26:31

leaders about how far they can

26:33

go to a gender trust that

26:35

is beyond their immediate business? Because

26:38

on redefine, have you heard kind

26:40

of two very distinct views when

26:42

we've talked to senior leaders about

26:44

social issues and whether they should

26:46

be engaged with them? Some say yes, we

26:48

have to be because it's a basic principle

26:51

of doing business, others say no, stick

26:53

to your swim lane. Given that, as

26:56

you say, trust may be the rarest

26:58

and most valuable of assets in

27:00

the current environment, what would your advice

27:02

be to leaders about how far they

27:04

should go to try and engender it?

27:07

I don't necessarily have the answer to

27:09

that, but I do have a sense

27:11

from having talked about it with many

27:13

leaders around the world. So there's

27:15

trust inside your organization and

27:18

there's trust as you say

27:20

outside in your communities in

27:22

the customers you serve and

27:25

beyond. I think at the end

27:27

of the day each of us through

27:29

our actions build trust indirectly

27:31

and yes there's this. debate

27:33

all the time about how

27:35

vocal should leaders be about

27:37

social issues and issues outside

27:39

the walls of their organizations.

27:41

At the end of the

27:43

day, if you're demonstrating your

27:45

values within your organization, you're

27:47

demonstrating your values to your

27:49

customers and to your communities,

27:52

that says almost as much

27:54

as any specific proclamations you

27:56

might make. And that's an important element

27:58

I think of. how socially

28:00

responsible organizations function.

28:03

One of the other things you mentioned is

28:05

the geopolitical one and the sense that we

28:07

live in a slightly fracturing world

28:09

at the moment. One of the things that

28:11

leads to is kind of hyper-regionalization,

28:14

a move away from global norms

28:16

and global assumptions about how businesses

28:19

and governments interact with each

28:21

other. Does it seem like that to

28:23

you at Russell Reynolds? I mean, how do

28:25

you think about our business, which is a

28:27

global one, but... where we operate in

28:29

markets that can sometimes seem to

28:31

be moving apart quite

28:33

dramatically, politically. What's

28:35

been the approach that you've taken

28:38

to thinking about that and what

28:40

it means for our strategy

28:42

and how we empower leaders in

28:44

the regions of the business? Look,

28:46

I think we're lucky. I think

28:48

I just get a warm and

28:51

fuzzy feeling every time. I walk

28:53

into a Russell Reynolds office around

28:55

the world, whether it's in Melbourne,

28:57

Australia, or Warsaw, Poland, or Dallas,

28:59

Texas. We're lucky because we have

29:02

a very strong culture and a

29:04

very strong common sense of purpose

29:06

in terms of improving the way

29:08

the world is led and dedication

29:11

to our clients. And we're lucky

29:13

in that that is something that

29:15

is replicated around the world

29:17

consistently. And as I said,

29:20

I love getting that feeling

29:22

every time I go to

29:24

one of our distant locations

29:26

and meet with colleagues there

29:29

and meet with clients there.

29:31

But I think what you're

29:33

asking is how does that

29:35

get impacted by the world

29:37

and countries perhaps drifting apart

29:40

in geopolitical ways? The reality

29:42

is I don't think we've been

29:44

impacted because our culture binds

29:46

us. We do always have

29:48

to drive good communication across

29:50

borders, across continents, in order

29:52

to make sure that we're

29:54

sharing information, we're sharing stories

29:56

about our clients, we're sharing

29:59

ways to help. clients, we're

30:01

sharing successes of our teams and

30:03

new ideas that our teams have

30:05

generated so that we can apply

30:07

those to other clients in other places.

30:09

But I think when you

30:11

have a strong culture, you

30:13

can stand together regardless of

30:15

some of the geopolitical nuance that

30:18

is floating around you. Now, is that

30:20

something that... becomes particularly difficult

30:22

as those geopolitical pressures grow and

30:25

get into something that we we

30:27

may not have encountered yet possibly,

30:29

which is why as a leadership

30:32

team we have to be nimble

30:34

and we have to be always

30:37

be ready to to react and

30:39

support our teams through anything unexpected

30:41

that happens. Constantine is our

30:44

regular list as we'll know. We ask

30:46

every guest on the podcast to

30:48

tell us about there. redefine our

30:51

moment, an experience or

30:53

a decision that shaped them

30:55

critically. What was yours? Before

30:58

I came to Russell Reynolds

31:00

Simon, I was a management

31:02

consultant and was

31:04

pretty young and inexperienced,

31:06

but was trained by

31:08

some great senior consultants

31:10

and was given a

31:12

lot of responsibility early

31:15

on to contribute to...

31:17

significant efforts at clients. And

31:19

there was this one project

31:21

we were working on helping

31:23

the CEO of a business

31:25

reorganize his team and his

31:28

organization and kind of plot

31:30

a new strategy for the

31:32

group together with a leadership

31:34

team. And I remember vividly

31:36

sitting in his office down

31:38

in Oklahoma. late one evening

31:40

and he was kind of

31:42

laying out some of his

31:44

plans and I took the

31:46

leap of faith and told him

31:49

that I thought he was completely

31:51

wrong and that he needed

31:53

to be thinking about things

31:55

in a different way and

31:57

sort of described that and

32:00

He was pretty taken aback for

32:02

a moment and then sort of

32:04

quickly pivoted in the direction that

32:07

I had suggested. It's a redefiner

32:09

moment for me because until then

32:11

I had, you know, kind of

32:14

felt like I was a... a

32:16

cog in a wheel and a

32:18

helper. At that moment, I think

32:20

I really started to become a

32:23

true advisor and kind of shed

32:25

any inhibitions I had about speaking

32:27

my mind to clients if I

32:30

truly believe then had the data

32:32

for believing that the direction they

32:34

were taking could use another perspective.

32:36

So I think for me that

32:38

that kind of had a lot

32:41

to do with the course I

32:43

took since then. We like to

32:45

end these podcasts with a

32:47

series of rapid fire questions. So I'm

32:49

going to ask these and ask you

32:51

to answer as quickly as you can.

32:54

Are you ready? These are optional,

32:56

right? You can refuse to answer.

32:58

I'm ready. I'm ready, Simon. Let's

33:00

do it. Come on. Since this

33:02

is the first episode of the

33:04

New Year, what are you most

33:06

looking forward to in 2025, Constantine?

33:08

I'm looking forward to, you

33:10

said rapid fire, right? I'm

33:13

looking forward to spending time

33:15

with our people and with

33:17

our clients. And I think

33:20

you've answered this one already,

33:22

but to remind everyone,

33:24

what was your first job?

33:27

My first job. I was

33:29

a cashier at the Winn-Dixie

33:31

in South Miami. Do you know

33:33

what a Winn-Dixie is, Simon? I

33:35

have no idea what a Winn-Dixie

33:37

is. Oh my God, Winn-Dixie is

33:39

amazing. It's a supermarket chain, mostly

33:42

in the South, and I was

33:44

a cashier, and it was just

33:46

when scanning items at the cash

33:48

register had come up, so I

33:51

didn't have to learn how to

33:53

key in everything, but it was

33:55

great customer service job. Looking back

33:57

on your leadership path, possibly,

34:00

you'd learned sooner apart from

34:02

scanning? Everything. I wish I'd

34:04

learned everything sooner. I mean, I'm

34:06

still learning. I think that's a

34:08

key part of, I think, all

34:11

of our journeys. What do I

34:13

wish I had learned sooner? I

34:15

think communication is so key to

34:17

leadership. And I think, as I

34:19

said, I'm still learning how to

34:21

be a good communicator, but I

34:24

wish, you know, I see some

34:26

great communicators and wish I had

34:28

been able to learn how to

34:30

communicate effectively earlier in my career

34:32

for sure. What's one question you

34:34

often ask when hiring people? You're

34:37

asking me for my secrets. It's, well

34:39

I love the misperception question.

34:41

What's a misperception about you?

34:43

What is one subject you'd like to

34:46

learn more about? Maybe because of

34:48

my upbringing, I'm a sort of

34:50

archaeology history buff, so I'd love

34:53

to spend more time really learning

34:55

more about ancient civilizations and ancient

34:58

history and I've never formally been

35:00

on a dig, but I'd love

35:02

to do that at some point.

35:05

I can recommend a very good

35:07

history festival. Final

35:09

question, what advice would you

35:12

give to someone with seasweet

35:14

aspirations? I would say... Don't

35:16

worry about your aspirations.

35:18

Focus on doing great

35:20

work, living by your

35:23

values, delivering innovative ways

35:25

of doing things for

35:27

your customers and your

35:29

colleagues, and always bring

35:31

a little fallotimo on

35:33

everything you do. Constantine,

35:36

thank you for those

35:38

responses. And as I think back

35:40

over the last 30 minutes, there

35:42

are a few themes that emerge.

35:44

one that runs as a golden thread

35:46

through a lot of this is that

35:48

sense of solidarity that sense

35:50

of fallotimo as you described

35:52

it right at the beginning the

35:54

culture that's so important to

35:56

you in your family background and

35:59

that you bring to the way in which

36:01

you think about leadership for yourself and for

36:03

others. The communication of that

36:05

was also something that you

36:07

talked about consistently. As

36:09

well as the evolution of

36:11

our business, a move

36:13

away from a focus on a

36:16

transactional approach to executive search to

36:18

something that is a much more

36:20

holistic support for leadership,

36:22

decision making, development,

36:24

both for individuals

36:26

who lead businesses and

36:28

other organizations and for teams

36:30

of leaders. And that was fascinating

36:32

to hear how that evolution

36:34

is continuing, but I was

36:36

also really struck by

36:38

your rejection of my question

36:41

about whether leading a people business

36:43

is somehow different in type

36:45

from leading other kinds

36:47

of businesses. In your view,

36:49

to paraphrase, we're all

36:51

leadership businesses now and a

36:53

really important insight into the way you lead

36:55

and the way some of the

36:57

most significant leaders we advise lead.

37:00

So thank you. I think you have

37:03

lived up to the advisory standard

37:05

that we set ourselves in the advice

37:07

that you've given to our listeners

37:09

today. Thank you for finding the time

37:11

and joining us on Redefiners. Thank

37:13

you, Simon. It's a privilege to be

37:15

here. Thanks

37:19

for joining us on this

37:21

episode of Redefiners. For more

37:23

compelling insights from leaders across industries

37:25

and around the world, listen

37:27

to Redefiners wherever you get your podcasts.

37:29

And to learn more or to

37:31

get in contact with us, visit our

37:33

website at RussellRenals.com, find us on

37:35

LinkedIn, and follow us on X, formerly

37:37

known as Twitter, at RRA on

37:39

leadership.