0:00

Call them change makers. Call

0:02

them rule breakers. We

0:04

call them redefiners. Hello

0:06

everybody, welcome back to

0:08

redefiners. It's Clark Murphy

0:11

with Russell Reynolds Associates.

0:13

We've got a special jolt of

0:15

caffeine today because we're recording live

0:18

off the floor of the NASDAQ

0:20

Exchange. If you want some energy,

0:22

you've got to come here. It's

0:25

amazing. For those who aren't familiar,

0:27

the exchange was the first electronic

0:29

exchange founded in 1971 and is

0:32

home to the listings of some

0:34

of those high energy companies like

0:36

Nevada, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Meta. So

0:39

you've got the picture. But of

0:41

course the exchange is just one

0:43

of their businesses and we're going to talk

0:45

about that a little bit later on. Before

0:48

we get started, just a reminder to our

0:50

listeners, if you are watching this on

0:52

YouTube, you can go down and hit the

0:54

subscribe button. And for those of you who

0:56

are listening. We would love for you to

0:59

give us some feedback on any questions you

1:01

have, what you think of it, and keep

1:03

listening wherever you get your podcasts. So

1:05

a lot of the work we do at

1:08

Russell Reynolds Associates with

1:10

CEOs and board members is talking

1:12

about the themes today of innovation,

1:14

pace of change, culture, talent, making

1:17

sure you're relevant, but keeping

1:19

the roots of a great culture. We're joined

1:21

today with a CEO who is doing

1:23

that at pace and scale as we

1:25

speak. And we're joined today by a Dean

1:27

of Friedman, who's the chair and CEO

1:29

of NASDAQ. Earlier served as president,

1:31

also CFO. She left briefly

1:33

at one point to be the chief

1:36

financial officer of the Carlisle group, and

1:38

in fact took them public as the

1:40

CFO. And so she seen the listings

1:42

from both sides of the scoreboard. Earlier

1:44

she was at NASDAQ running their

1:46

data products business, and she's done

1:49

a variety of things, starting by joining

1:51

the company as an intern out of

1:53

business school. Adena welcome to Redefiners. Thanks for

1:55

joining us. It's great to be here Clark. Thank

1:58

you so much. This is fantastic. Well, it's good to be in

2:00

the same place at the same time. I have to

2:02

laugh. You and I may be some of the

2:04

rare people that have spent 30 years

2:06

on and off with the same company.

2:08

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. So maybe we start

2:10

there having started as an intern, become

2:12

CEO. You started as an intern, became

2:14

CEO. Tell us about the journey and

2:16

maybe some of the milestones that help you

2:19

be the leader. you are today? It is a

2:21

fun story because I got so lucky. I

2:23

mean, how often do you get to go

2:25

and join a company right out of college

2:27

or right out of university and then suddenly

2:29

end up spending your whole career here? My,

2:32

my, by the way, my father did that.

2:34

So he also joined Tierra Price throughout a

2:36

business school and spent his entire career there.

2:38

So I did see that. I think that

2:41

probably did influence me a little bit. There

2:43

you go. But I started as an intern

2:45

because I wanted to be in the financial

2:47

industry, but I wanted to be a product

2:49

manager. When I was in business school,

2:51

I loved product management, but I

2:54

also liked finance. And I had

2:56

this rare opportunity to come an

2:58

intern at NASDAQ. to write product

3:00

plans for their trading products. And

3:02

NASA was at an interesting time,

3:04

because they were owned by the

3:06

National Association of Securities Dealers. So

3:08

they were owned by a membership

3:10

not-for-profit organization, but they were for-profit

3:12

business inside that shop. So they

3:14

were starting to understand, like, they

3:16

were trying to figure out, how

3:18

do we build commercial muscles around

3:20

these trading products or data products, the

3:23

things that they owned, and start to

3:25

think differently about being a product. you

3:27

know how to write product plans? And

3:29

I was like, oh sure, I had

3:32

no idea. So, but I got in

3:34

there, I learned it quickly, I helped

3:36

them write some product plans, and then

3:38

they hired me on permanently, and ultimately

3:41

I became a product manager in the

3:43

trading division. And then they reorganized NASDAQ

3:45

into three divisions. They peeled the data

3:47

business out of the trading business, and

3:50

they took a big risk on me when I

3:52

was about 30, 31 years old, and they made

3:54

me the head of the data business. on the

3:56

back of being that product

3:59

manager. you know, one defining moment.

4:01

I think that then we had a

4:03

new CEO come in in 2003 and

4:05

he was very different. He came from

4:08

the technology industry, he was not coming

4:10

from the banking side, he was coming

4:12

from the software side, and it was

4:14

fantastic because he really changed the way

4:16

that we thought about our business, but

4:19

it was all about our product. So

4:21

I think that definitely played to my

4:23

strength. He then made me head of

4:25

strategy and head of data and then

4:27

ultimately CFO. I then went to Carlisle,

4:29

came back as president, and then became

4:31

CEO eight years ago. So it's been

4:34

a wonderful journey here. I've been really,

4:36

really fortunate. So NASDAQ, particularly

4:38

for those overseas that don't know the company

4:40

as well, has redefined itself under

4:42

that CEO and under you, and it's

4:44

really a technology company with multiple

4:46

divisions. Can you just give an overview

4:49

of the company and the divisions? So

4:51

we are a technology provider to

4:53

the entire financial industry. We start

4:55

with our own markets and our

4:58

own markets are incredible, and we

5:00

have incredible technology that underpin our

5:02

markets. But we made a decision

5:04

a long time ago to also

5:06

want to provide that technology to

5:08

other markets. So we now provide.

5:11

core critical infrastructure technology to 130

5:13

market places around the world. So

5:15

we are really, we underpin a

5:17

lot of markets in terms of

5:19

trading, clearing, settlement technology. We also

5:22

provide a whole suite, a very

5:24

complete suite of trade operations as

5:26

well as risk management and anti-financial

5:28

crime technology to banks and brokers

5:30

all over the world. We have

5:32

38, 100 customers who leverage our

5:34

technology for that purpose. And then

5:37

we also provide amazing data analytics

5:39

that helps. corporate and investors find

5:41

each other more successfully and build

5:43

investment strategies around our index business

5:45

in ways that really help redefine

5:47

the investor experience. So we have

5:49

data analytics, we have software, and then

5:52

we have our core markets, and that's how

5:54

we've kind of organized us. We are ultimately,

5:56

though, the foundation of us as a market.

5:58

You know, we have these great. corporate relationships,

6:00

investor relationships, broker-dealer relationships. And we

6:03

really center around three themes, liquidity.

6:05

How do we drive more liquidity

6:07

across markets in the world and

6:09

into our markets? How do we

6:11

drive more transparency? How do we

6:13

make the entire financial system more

6:15

transparent? And then third, of course,

6:17

is integrity. How do we drive

6:20

integrity across the financial system? And

6:22

all three of those key themes

6:24

are really the underpinning of us

6:26

as a market. So not many people. or

6:28

head of strategy and become the

6:30

chief executive. Where the company is

6:32

today, is this the strategy that you helped

6:34

develop or has it evolved since you

6:37

had a strategy? I would say that

6:39

this strategy has been, there have been

6:41

pieces of the strategy that it developed

6:43

when I was head of strategy, bringing

6:45

it all together into this comprehensive. I

6:47

was the dramatic way of thinking about our

6:50

business and really driving at scale us

6:52

as a technology provider to the entire

6:54

industry has been much more the journey

6:56

as a CEO. Got it. But we

6:58

certainly, there were definitely pieces of

7:00

this strategy that were already coming

7:02

up through the organization as head

7:05

of strategy. As you reflect on your

7:07

own career, we ask everybody, was there

7:09

a redefining or defining moment for you?

7:11

There actually was a defining moment for

7:13

me and it's not going to be,

7:15

I had, you know, a couple key

7:17

moments in my career, like becoming the head

7:19

of data, becoming the head of strategy,

7:21

and then joining Carlisle. I would say

7:23

those three things, and of course, becoming

7:25

CEO. But there was a project that

7:27

I want to talk about because there

7:30

was this project that allowed me to

7:32

exercise a lot of muscles that allowed

7:34

me to develop myself as a leader,

7:36

accomplish something really important for the company,

7:38

and build trust with the CEO. who

7:40

was Bob Rifield. So he was new

7:42

as CEO. And so this was in

7:44

2003. He'd come into NASDAQ. He was

7:46

making a lot of change inside the

7:49

company. And then we had kind of

7:51

this external force that came in and

7:53

said, that really made it so that

7:55

we had to rethink how we closed

7:57

the market every day. So up until

7:59

this moment. we closed the market every day

8:01

by just taking the last trade that was

8:03

reported to the market and then we would

8:06

just shut the system and say we're done

8:08

and the problem with that is it really

8:10

was a very gameable way to close the

8:12

market right and as indexers were coming up

8:15

and becoming more prevalent and mutual funds at

8:17

that time were so big they were using

8:19

that closing price as the price that determined

8:21

the value of their fund or the value

8:23

of the index and that was making it

8:25

so that trillions and trillions of dollars

8:27

were dependent on that price to be

8:29

the right price, like to really be

8:31

a good reflection of the market. And

8:34

the result of that was we just

8:36

weren't keeping up at the times. And

8:38

so we said, okay, it's time for

8:40

us to build an auction to close

8:42

the market. But we'd never built an

8:44

auction before at NASAC, ever. And today,

8:46

of course, auctions are a huge part of

8:48

markets. But at the time, we had none.

8:50

And I raised my hand and I said,

8:52

Bob, I really want to work on this

8:55

project. But I really wanted it. So

8:57

skepticism in that moment, perhaps? Well,

8:59

it was more like, well, and

9:01

look, this is actually a huge

9:03

transparency opportunity. We're going to build

9:05

data. It's going to be a

9:07

critical component of this. Please, can

9:09

I take this project? And he

9:12

gave it to me. And there

9:14

was a big, there was a

9:16

big time commitment, meaning we had

9:18

to get it done within a

9:20

certain period of time. And at

9:22

that time, it was a huge

9:24

event. And a couple years earlier, we

9:26

had actually had a chance, we had had

9:28

a problem on that day. And so we

9:31

knew that we had to execute this thing

9:33

flawlessly, and we needed to get it live,

9:35

and we needed to get it proven before

9:37

that day occurred. So it was, you know,

9:39

it was an opportunity for me to build

9:41

a team, to take an idea and turn it

9:44

into reality, to figure out how to code

9:46

it, to engage the industry, the buy side,

9:48

and the sell side, to figure out how

9:50

does this work for everyone. to have the

9:52

best talent inside of NASA come with me to

9:54

help define what this looks like. I had incredible

9:57

people on the team working with us and then

9:59

we had to it, and deploy it,

10:01

and deploy it at scale. So,

10:03

flash forward to the Russell Rebalance,

10:05

the big day. And I remember

10:07

I was in our Marker Watch

10:09

Division, which is where we kind

10:11

of watched everything happen as we

10:14

get to the close, and we

10:16

actually had, I believe, 500 million

10:18

shares trade in the close that

10:20

day, in the closing auction, and

10:22

it happened in two seconds,

10:24

right? And it was both pins and

10:27

needles, excitement, you know, anxiety, and it

10:29

was just wonderful and it worked so

10:31

well. And I think that that whole

10:33

project got me much closer to Bob,

10:36

got me much closer to the entire

10:38

technology division, really helped me develop my

10:40

skills as a leader in an influencer

10:42

and engage the industry. And so at

10:45

that moment, Bob then made me the

10:47

head of strategy right after that. Yeah,

10:49

that was my defining moment. So safe

10:51

to say. You were out of your comfort

10:53

zone. Very much so. A lot

10:55

of stakeholders. Yes. For better or

10:57

worse, a lot of visibility. A

10:59

lot of visibility and pressure. And

11:02

a fair bit of both institutional and

11:04

career risk. Yeah, because if it did

11:06

not go well, that would have been

11:08

good. In Bob's first year, it was a

11:11

big, I had to succeed. I often say

11:13

to people, take the most

11:15

difficult project, no one remembers

11:17

the easy ones. Exactly, that's

11:20

exactly right. Another thing that people

11:22

may not realize is NASDAQ is

11:24

a serial acquirer of business. You do

11:26

a lot of deals here. You've done

11:28

a lot of deals. Doing a deal

11:30

at Carlisle, doing a deal at NASDAQ, very

11:33

different. How might you juxtapose

11:35

doing deals in different environments?

11:38

Well, it's interesting because

11:40

they have different purposes. So in

11:42

NASDAQ, if we're choosing to bring

11:44

a company to become part of

11:46

NASDAQ, it's a forever decision. And

11:48

so it's a very different framework to

11:51

use to determine whether that company

11:53

is the right fit for you.

11:55

Because number one, you start with

11:57

the strategy. First, you should have a

11:59

strategy. as a company. And then you start

12:01

to say, okay, to me, emanate should be a

12:03

means to an end, not an end itself,

12:06

right? So you're saying, here's my strategy, and

12:08

you take your shareholders on the journey to

12:10

say, here's how we want to define our

12:12

future. Here's how this company fits into that

12:14

future, how they can add to your capabilities,

12:16

add to your distribution, get to put you

12:19

into a new market, whatever it is that's

12:21

really defined within the strategy. Then you say,

12:23

okay, well, how financially does this fit into

12:25

the picture of NASAC as well? You know,

12:27

does one plus one equal more than two?

12:30

And that's super important, but it's both

12:32

in the near term and the long

12:34

term, because in the near term, the

12:36

shareholders are expecting a return that's within

12:38

the framework of their own return environment,

12:40

but then also you have to know

12:43

10 years, 20 years later that you've

12:45

got this business that's really defining the

12:47

future of the company. So that's the

12:49

way. we view M&A within being an

12:51

operating company, buying another operating company. Inside

12:54

of a private equity firm, they have

12:56

a very defined process. And for them,

12:58

as soon as they're thinking about buying

13:00

a company, it's not a strategic decision

13:02

necessarily. It's a financial decision. They also

13:05

have a very defined exit time frame.

13:07

So usually they try to say, well,

13:09

what can we do with this company

13:11

over five years? And then the most

13:13

important question is, how do we exit? So

13:16

they are not a forever owner. They're

13:18

a redefining owner, right? They're taking this

13:20

company, redefining it, turning it into something

13:22

better than it was, and then making

13:24

sure that they know how to land

13:26

it somewhere else, either in the public

13:29

markets or with another buyer. That's a

13:31

very different investment thesis. But when I

13:33

was at Carlisle and I watched them

13:35

and I actually had to evaluate all

13:37

the internal rates of return on every

13:39

single investment at Carlisle. It really was

13:42

great for me to see the discipline

13:44

that they took on that financial analysis

13:46

and what they used as their framework. So

13:48

I was able to bring a lot of

13:50

those that thinking back to NASDAQ, but with

13:52

a different context. It was on the floor.

13:54

The company just went public, sale point.

13:56

Pretty exciting to see. Excellent. The

13:58

amount of private... capital being

14:00

put to work is tremendous. Public listings

14:03

have always been the joy of the

14:05

destination. How do you look at companies

14:07

wanting to remain private and those that

14:10

need to go public for a variety

14:12

of reasons? Or want to go public.

14:14

Or want to go public. Or want

14:16

to go public. Yes. OK. So I

14:19

actually, first I would just frame it

14:21

out. So there was a study that

14:23

was done. And in 2023, there was

14:25

$112 trillion in the public markets. and

14:28

$15 trillion in the private markets. So

14:30

the public markets still are an enormous,

14:32

enormous driver of wealth creation, economic growth,

14:35

and frankly, just drivers of the economy.

14:37

But the private markets are growing a

14:39

lot faster. So I think there was

14:41

like 3% growth in the public capital,

14:44

15% growth in the private capital. So

14:46

it's a different trajectory. So I do

14:48

think it's important to point that out.

14:50

But the fact of the matter is,

14:53

companies have a lot more choice today.

14:55

and they can be, they can stay

14:57

private longer, the private equity industry and

15:00

the VC industry are changing their fund

15:02

structures to make it so that they

15:04

can keep private companies longer. Right, long-term

15:06

platforms, right, yes, permanent capital vehicles, other

15:09

things. And so it's going to be

15:11

increasingly important that we demonstrate why being

15:13

a public company is actually the next,

15:15

the best next step for a company.

15:18

I look at it not as a

15:20

destination, but as a next step. So,

15:22

and I think I've said this to

15:24

you before, Clark, I know I said

15:27

it when I was at Carlisle. You

15:29

know, going from being a private company

15:31

to a public company is like going

15:34

from driving on a country road where

15:36

you're winding your way through. You know

15:38

where your destination is, but you don't

15:40

quite know how you're going to get

15:43

there, and you might take a turn

15:45

or two along the way. But you

15:47

can also pick your speed, you don't

15:49

really have, you know, there's a lot

15:52

of different elements to driving on a

15:54

driving on a driving on a country,

15:56

driving on a country, driving on a

15:59

country, driving on a country, driving on

16:01

a country, driving on a country, and

16:03

you have a lot more rules, you're

16:05

going a lot faster, you have to

16:08

make sure you're looking left and right,

16:10

you have to know, you probably have

16:12

a better sense of what that next

16:14

turn is going to be. So I

16:17

think that that's just a different. of

16:19

running your company, but being a public

16:21

company can make you go faster. It

16:23

gives your clients a sense of permanence

16:26

in terms of who you are as

16:28

a company. Are you going to be

16:30

there to serve me over the next

16:33

10 years, not just the next five?

16:35

When we've bought companies out of private

16:37

equity and brought them into NASDAQ, the

16:39

clients are so happy because they know

16:42

they have a forever owner. And we're

16:44

there to drive the business over the

16:46

long term. We can make 10-year decisions

16:48

for that business. So there's a lot

16:51

of benefit to being in a public

16:53

company, but there's also a lot of

16:55

obligation. And we have to look at

16:58

that and say, is the obligation getting

17:00

kind of out of whack with the

17:02

benefits? And that's where we have to

17:04

engage regulators, legislators, and make sure they

17:07

understand. You can't just pile a bunch

17:09

of obligations on just by the fact

17:11

they're public companies. You have to focus

17:13

his obligations on what shareholders really need

17:16

to know in order to make an

17:18

informed decision. And we're working on that

17:20

right now. I think there's an opportunity

17:22

to recalibrate that right now. We'll be

17:25

right back with the Dean of Friedman,

17:27

but first, let's hear from Tristan Jervis,

17:29

a leadership advisor specializing in AI transformation.

17:32

Tristan will discuss the four critical steps

17:34

CEOs can take to build AI-powered organizations.

17:36

The common misconception many leaders harbor is

17:38

that AI transformation is only a tech

17:41

challenge. It's not. At its core it's

17:43

a leadership challenge, one that demands new

17:45

capabilities, mindsets and approaches. Our research shows

17:47

that while 54% of leaders rate technological

17:50

change as a top five threat to

17:52

organizational health, only 45% feel confident in

17:54

their organization's ability to effectively transform. To

17:57

successfully navigate this transformation CEOs need to

17:59

take four critical actions. One, assess the

18:01

AI readiness of your leadership team. Two,

18:03

unlock your existing leaders' AI potential. Three,

18:06

find AI transformation ready leaders. and four

18:08

plan for an AI-powered future. The stakes

18:10

couldn't be higher. Organizations that successfully navigate

18:12

this transformation will unlock efficiencies, innovation, and

18:15

competitive advantage. Those that falter risk irrelevance.

18:17

To learn more about how you can

18:19

lead effective AI transformation and the key

18:22

actions to take, find our full report

18:24

in the show notes or by visiting

18:26

rra.com. And now back

18:28

to our conversation with Edina. Recalibrates a

18:30

great word. 2025, it's a year of

18:33

change all over the world. And the

18:35

pace, whether it's technology, geopolitics, balance sheets,

18:37

etc. Earlier this month, McKenzie said this

18:39

is probably the greatest moment of uncertainty

18:42

for investors. Council on Foreign Relations says

18:44

geopolitical conflict, likelihood high, impact, impact, And

18:46

we look at the JP Morgan Health

18:49

Care Conference, they talked about investing with

18:51

uncertainty, resilience, and outlook and perseverance. Change,

18:53

change, change, change. You also talked about

18:55

2025 as a moment of change. You're

18:58

in the markets business. You live the

19:00

markets. How do you look at change

19:02

and what's going on in the short

19:04

to medium term future? We're at this

19:07

inflection point in the economy, in the

19:09

world, but in technology. And also in

19:11

the world, meaning the broader climate and

19:13

other things that are happening, the externalities

19:16

that we're facing. So we've done some

19:18

work with some firms that have estimated

19:20

that there's probably eight. 80 trillion dollar

19:23

investment that needs to be made in

19:25

order to really bring every society and

19:27

every economy forward to face the realities

19:29

of the world that we're living in

19:32

today. So that can be climate change

19:34

and an energy transition and unleashing the

19:36

power of technology. and AI, the redefining

19:38

what will AI really mean for every

19:41

business, for every part of society, but

19:43

there's an enormous amount of opportunity to

19:45

unleash if we can find the capital

19:47

to deploy. And that's of course what

19:50

capital markets do. And it's also what

19:52

the broader banking system and VC investors,

19:54

investment, that's what we're here to do,

19:57

is to really put capital to work

19:59

in these defining moments to catalyze growth

20:01

or to catalyze change. And at the

20:03

same time, we have to recognize the

20:06

fact that we have another moment, which

20:08

is we have been putting more and

20:10

more obligations on those companies and banks

20:12

and brokers that are the ones that

20:15

are going to be the drivers of

20:17

that change, and we have to rethink

20:19

that. So we do think that this

20:21

notion of smart regulation, reframing what regulations

20:24

there to achieve, outcome-oriented, getting rid of

20:26

regulations that are no longer relevant, changing

20:28

the mindset of the regulators from... tick

20:31

the box input-driven regulation to output, what

20:33

am I actually trying to drive towards

20:35

regulation, will unleash an enormous amount of

20:37

capital into the system. So we actually

20:40

did this study with the banks. And

20:42

we said, even if you could just

20:44

take down the risk and compliance function

20:46

of the global banks by 10 to

20:49

20 percent, it actually allows them to

20:51

retain... 25 to 50 billion more in

20:53

earnings. And if they then leverage that

20:56

and go out to and drive that

20:58

into the market, that's $500 billion to

21:00

a trillion of incremental capital that they

21:02

could bring into the markets just by

21:05

making them more efficient. So that's the

21:07

use of technology, changing the regulatory framework,

21:09

and then unleashing that technology to allow

21:11

us to deploy more capital into the

21:14

market. So it's a pretty exciting moment,

21:16

but it's a moment where we have

21:18

to grasp it, and we have to

21:20

take hold of it. Okay. So let's

21:23

talking about graspingapping it. Those are complex

21:25

stakeholders. You push too hard, you got

21:27

a real problem, you don't push hard

21:30

enough, a trillion dollars doesn't get to

21:32

the markets. As a leader, how do

21:34

you think about multiple stakeholders and when

21:36

to push... when to listen, others want

21:39

to learn how you think about multi-stakeholder

21:41

engagement. Well I think first you have

21:43

to listen. Yeah, I agree. So what

21:45

are their problems, what are their needs,

21:48

how are they navigating those problems, but

21:50

also what new capabilities can be brought

21:52

to change the trajectory of how they

21:54

manage those problems? The second is and

21:57

then you listen to your employees and

21:59

you listen to... You listen to regulators

22:01

and you listen to legislators. It's super

22:04

important to engage the ecosystem to understand,

22:06

to understand them, so that you can

22:08

understand their motivations, their incentives, their worries,

22:10

all of that. And you then bring

22:13

that back in and say, okay, well,

22:15

how do we then frame out a

22:17

solution? And we are a solutions provider.

22:19

And we do sit at the center

22:22

of the capital market, certainly, and now

22:24

the broader system. How can we then

22:26

leverage that technology change the way that

22:28

they think about that regulatory obligation? You

22:31

know, hopefully help steer, but recognizing we're

22:33

an influencer. In some cases, we're a

22:35

driver. When it comes to technology and

22:38

what we can control, we're driving that

22:40

down, we're driving the industry down a

22:42

road. But we also have to recognize

22:44

that they deal with stakeholders too. See

22:47

if you drive too fast and you

22:49

drive too hard, tissue rejection. Right. So

22:51

you have to kind of think about

22:53

how do you pace it, how do

22:56

you explain it, how do you communicate

22:58

it, how do you then find those

23:00

first steps that make them trust you

23:02

and then start to go a little

23:05

faster. Your history, NASDAQ's history, is a

23:07

disruptor from the day you started the

23:09

exchange. And now you're a listener, your

23:12

global partner to governments and regulators. Can

23:14

you still be a disruptor? Are you

23:16

still a disruptor as an institution? And

23:18

you have fin text and you have

23:21

private equity firms and you have banks

23:23

who are actually trying to compete with

23:25

you, how do you stay ahead and

23:27

are you a disruptor still? Well first

23:30

I would say on that last point

23:32

in terms of those firms that are

23:34

trying to compete. They're also our largest

23:36

client. I know. So, but recognize like,

23:39

there's, binary thinking doesn't work in the

23:41

financial industry. You know, there's, there's a

23:43

lot of shades of gray between, you

23:46

know, they're a competitor versus they're a

23:48

client versus they're a partner or, you

23:50

know. there's a lot of opportunity for

23:52

you to partner with firms that might

23:55

compete in one space and partner another.

23:57

So we are very much a view

23:59

of let's be multi-dimensional and lots of

24:01

enemies. Yeah, or we call it co-opetition.

24:04

So I like that better because it's

24:06

a little more optimistic. But at the

24:08

same time, so that's just something to

24:10

point out. But as a disruptor, so

24:13

we were truly a disruptor when Azek

24:15

started in 1971. All trading occurred in

24:17

a manual format in one building. And

24:20

so, and with some firms piped in,

24:22

we said, okay, so how do you,

24:24

there's two ways we disrupted. Number one,

24:26

how do you allow more companies to

24:29

tap public investors if they're not profitable?

24:31

So we changed the listing rules and

24:33

allowed unprofitable companies to come public. Never

24:35

had been happened before. So that was

24:38

like a hard line that the markets

24:40

had, and we said, let's change that.

24:42

So that's number one. And that unleashed

24:44

the ability for all these tech companies.

24:47

innovators to come to market and seek

24:49

public capital. The second was how do

24:51

you engage more of the what we

24:54

call democratize access to the public markets

24:56

by becoming a network? Instead of having

24:58

it in a building, use technology, and

25:00

use network technology to go out and

25:03

allow anyone in the country to connect

25:05

into our exchange. and operate within the

25:07

market successfully. And we did, it was

25:09

technologically really, really groundbreaking. So that was

25:12

how we started, but we didn't have

25:14

anything to lose, right? We were just,

25:16

there's a difference in how you disrupt

25:18

when you were just a startup and

25:21

you're just trying to disrupt and you're

25:23

nothing really to lose. Today, we are

25:25

the steward of the capital markets around

25:28

the world. So we have a lot

25:30

of responsibility and obligation on resilience. So

25:32

being hyper resilient is just table stakesakes

25:34

for us. But you can still disrupt

25:37

on top of that. So what we

25:39

thought about is, for instance, markets have

25:41

always operated inside of data centers. Every

25:43

market around the world operates inside their

25:46

own data centers or defined data centers.

25:48

How do we disrupt that and say,

25:50

cloud technology is the future of the

25:53

world? How are we going to make

25:55

sure we can operate in the future

25:57

of the world? How do you take

25:59

markets from a fixed data-centric world to

26:02

a cloud world? And we re-wrote our

26:04

entire trade life cycle technology, microservice architect,

26:06

a cloud native. And we then partnered

26:08

with a cloud provider AWS to say,

26:11

how do we actually bring first cloud

26:13

technology into our data center, but then

26:15

also pushes much of our workloads out

26:17

of our data center into cloud? So

26:20

we've been doing that for many years.

26:22

And now with AI, we're well positioned

26:24

to play offense on AI. We had

26:27

a new AI-driven order type that came

26:29

into the markets last year. It's actually

26:31

more than doubled the volume in that

26:33

in that particular order type. We've launched

26:36

Gen AI copilits across our solutions in

26:38

the software space. And so because we've

26:40

been willing to frankly take a risk,

26:42

help our clients take risks, we're now

26:45

deploying that, by the way, that trade

26:47

life cycle technology across the markets in

26:49

the world, we're moving markets to cloud,

26:51

it's super cool. It actually is allowing

26:54

us to be not a disruptor, but

26:56

a leader, I would say, in helping

26:58

them manage to the future. And that's

27:01

how we see our role today. So

27:03

as you manage to the future, and

27:05

you're a product manager by background, it's

27:07

when you can you can see the

27:10

passion. But managing for the future means

27:12

having the best talent, particularly in a

27:14

tech-driven business. People grow up here, and

27:16

I know from our business, they are

27:19

really well respected. How do you keep

27:21

talent? What's the culture of we want

27:23

to win? We want to be here.

27:25

We want you to stay here for

27:28

decades, not years. How do you look

27:30

at talent in the tech world? Yeah,

27:32

well, first we are extremely fortunate to

27:35

have a lot of long tenured. Yes.

27:37

talent here and it's it's really special

27:39

so I think the first thing is

27:41

we are a mission-driven company and we

27:44

want people who believe so we say

27:46

we want missionaries not mercenaries right so

27:48

we want people who really believe in

27:50

the mission of what NASA does in

27:53

terms of economic progress being the trusted

27:55

fabric to the world's financial system is

27:57

our vision. And we want everyone to

27:59

believe in that and be a part

28:02

of that. And so they, and we

28:04

live it every day. So they do

28:06

feel that they're part of something important.

28:09

The second thing is we have global

28:11

talent. So we are not wedded to

28:13

a country or a city. We have

28:15

talent across the US. across all of

28:18

the world. We have talent in I

28:20

think more than 50 countries, but we

28:22

have defined centers of excellence around the

28:24

world that allow us to draw talent

28:27

from around the world, and that I

28:29

think is obviously hugely beneficial, and we

28:31

know how to do that at scale.

28:33

And then I think that also we

28:36

really believe in that culture of bringing

28:38

diverse points of view and diverse backgrounds

28:40

together in a performance culture and allowing

28:43

people to stand up and come up

28:45

with ideas and and and be a

28:47

challenger but also in a respectful way

28:49

let's make sure we channel that into

28:52

decisions and we go forward as a

28:54

team so that's kind of the culture

28:56

we also bring here too. I love

28:58

the missionaries versus mercenaries but you yourself

29:01

you've always been an athlete I think

29:03

you're a ticondo black belt black belt

29:05

right you've also been famous for sitting

29:07

on the third baseline of your family

29:10

members playing baseball games quite successfully How

29:12

do you keep the competitive edge? Culturally,

29:14

you are competitive. I've seen it. But

29:17

we're mission driven because people are trying

29:19

to find the balance and it's hard.

29:21

Yeah. So I think everything starts with

29:23

the client. I have always said that

29:26

if you only look to the left

29:28

and the right and you look at

29:30

what your competitors are doing, you're not

29:32

actually... reaching your own your full potential

29:35

because they may not be very good

29:37

what they do. Right, right, right. Let's

29:39

hope so if you're going to win,

29:41

right. So the first thing you have

29:44

to start with is the client. If

29:46

you really understand the client deeply and

29:48

you understand what their challenges are, what

29:51

their needs are, they may not need

29:53

to know exactly what they need or

29:55

how they need to achieve it, but

29:57

they do know what their challenges are

30:00

and what their needs are. And if

30:02

you listen to those deeply, and then

30:04

you are there to help them meet

30:06

those needs, exceed those needs, make sure

30:09

that you're driving those capabilities into the

30:11

future with them, a lot of the

30:13

rest of it kind of takes care

30:15

of itself. Now, we are hyper competitive

30:18

though, and we want to win every

30:20

single deal, every listing. every new client,

30:22

but we do make sure that people

30:25

understand it's in a constructive environment, meaning

30:27

we want to win everything. If we

30:29

don't win, what can we learn from

30:31

it? We don't beat people down for

30:34

it. We just say, what can we

30:36

learn from that to get better? How

30:38

do we talk to the client? Find

30:40

out why we lost? Because it's actually,

30:43

again, comes back to the client. You

30:45

know, what is it that we should

30:47

be, we should be the rethinking? So

30:50

you just have to make sure you

30:52

never get complacent about what your capabilities

30:54

are. You travel a lot. You speak

30:56

a lot at conferences. We just talked

30:59

about staying at the edge of technology

31:01

and innovation, cloud AI. How do you

31:03

learn? How do you professionally keep pushing

31:05

yourself intellectually or strategically? Well, I love

31:08

to learn and I learn by talking

31:10

to people. I mean, I certainly, you

31:12

know, listen to podcasts and other things

31:14

like that I read, but I find

31:17

that my most effective way of learning

31:19

is learning from the experience of others.

31:21

And I do get super lucky because

31:24

I have this incredible community of clients

31:26

who are the greatest innovators of our

31:28

day, right? So I get to go

31:30

talk to them. I'll see them at

31:33

conferences or events or they might come

31:35

here and I'll have a moment just

31:37

to ask, what's your, you know, what

31:39

are you working on? And how are

31:42

you thinking about things differently? And they

31:44

will engage with us because we are

31:46

a partner to them and they see

31:48

us as a partner. But I then

31:51

also go to a couple of events

31:53

a year where I don't have any

31:55

of my clients there. So, and I

31:58

get invited to this one that's just

32:00

amazing. And it's all about the future

32:02

of technology. But I'm talking about like

32:04

20 years into the future of the

32:07

future. Real future. academics and people. And

32:09

people who are thinking very differently. go

32:11

there and listen and learn and I

32:13

take copious notes and then I come

32:16

back to the team and I see

32:18

this is what I learned so we

32:20

try to do I try to do

32:22

that at least once or twice a

32:25

year to go somewhere where I'm not

32:27

actually meeting with clients I'm just learning

32:29

and that makes a huge difference it's

32:32

so energizing too. All jokes aside you

32:34

have worked here almost your entire career.

32:36

There's a thought today I have four

32:38

children in there mid to late 20s

32:41

who asked do I need to move

32:43

to be successful. And there is more

32:45

movement in Gen Z and millennials. Your

32:47

advice for maximizing career opportunity. I heard

32:50

one that I asked for it, which

32:52

not everyone asks for it. But what

32:54

do you say about someone who stays

32:56

in one company a long time or

32:59

how long for young leaders to move

33:01

ahead? Well, I think first it's important

33:03

to when you're choosing to go to

33:06

a company, you're not just going for

33:08

the job. that you're walking into, but

33:10

you're going for the opportunity that could

33:12

be there. And so you have to

33:15

understand the company you're going into. Do

33:17

you believe in what they do? Do

33:19

you like the people around you? Have

33:21

you done enough research to know if

33:24

they have opportunity in front of them?

33:26

Are you there to fix something? Are

33:28

you there to drive something? Are you

33:30

there to make change? But recognizing that

33:33

there's an opportunity that you're walking into,

33:35

so what is an opportunity in front

33:37

of you? And so once you're there.

33:40

The first thing to do is do

33:42

a great job on your job. Yeah,

33:44

I agree. So that's the first thing.

33:46

A lot of other, everything else kind

33:49

of. It makes everything easier if you're

33:51

doing a great job what you do.

33:53

The second thing to do is to

33:55

think, okay, in five years, where would

33:58

I want to be in this company?

34:00

So don't think about where you want

34:02

to be somewhere else. Where would you

34:04

want to be in this company? And

34:07

if you see jobs that you find

34:09

really compelling in five years that you

34:11

would want to have, then figure out

34:14

a path to get there. Talk to

34:16

your manager, talk to your peers, understand

34:18

what skills you need to develop, to

34:20

position yourself to be in that role

34:23

in five years. And then 10 years,

34:25

and then 20. But if you look

34:27

forward in five years and you're in

34:29

a company and you go, I don't

34:32

want any of those jobs, I don't

34:34

find any of them compelling, I don't

34:36

see a path, but you just don't

34:38

want it. That's when you start to

34:41

say, well, maybe this isn't where I

34:43

should be. And I should start to

34:45

look elsewhere. But recognize that don't do

34:48

it out of myopic view of you.

34:50

Look at it as an expansive view

34:52

of, okay, maybe I don't know what

34:54

those other jobs are. Let me learn

34:57

about them before I come to a

34:59

conclusion I do or don't want them.

35:01

You know, make sure you're curious enough

35:03

to really think ahead, define your goals,

35:06

but at least have them. And then

35:08

no, you're going to find that there's

35:10

going to be a point at which

35:12

you go, yeah, either that goal isn't

35:15

achievable or attainable or I don't want

35:17

it. And so I've got to have

35:19

to go and find it somewhere else.

35:22

And that's when you start to look

35:24

around. I think the learning and the

35:26

curiosity and the looking ahead, I completely

35:28

agree. So we end every podcast with

35:31

some rapid fire questions. Okay. Don't even

35:33

think about it. Just need the answer.

35:35

You're going off the training room. organization.

35:37

The Washington commander. Yeah, mine too. Oh,

35:40

who? You can tell who grew up

35:42

outside Washington, DC, in this crowd. What

35:44

is the fact about you or a

35:47

talent that not many people would know?

35:49

Well, when I was in college, I

35:51

learned how to fly. Oh, there you

35:53

go. Yeah, I became a private pilot

35:56

in college. Get back to the wrist-taking.

35:58

Exactly. I loved it. Yep. Is there

36:00

a mantra or slogan? that sums you

36:02

up or how you think about making

36:05

decisions? Well, okay, so not how I

36:07

make decisions, but one thing I have

36:09

in my office on a big piece

36:11

of wood is knock on wood. So

36:14

I'm a big believer, and if you're

36:16

gonna say a statement, you better knock

36:18

on wood, make a little superstitious. So

36:21

I'm hugely superstitious. All of our kids

36:23

have now learned that they every time

36:25

I say something knock on wood, it's

36:27

hysterical. It's hysterical. I have a lot

36:30

of other superstitions that have the the

36:32

biggest impact on you. Well, ultimately, honestly,

36:34

I can say that my father probably

36:36

had the biggest impact on me, but

36:39

if I look out and look at

36:41

the mentors, I had more than one,

36:43

but I would put Bob Rifeld as

36:45

both the sponsor and a mentor who

36:48

had a huge impact on me. Best

36:50

piece of advice they may have given

36:52

you? Okay, so what I really liked

36:55

about working with Bob is every year

36:57

he would give me a performance review,

36:59

and every year he'd say, you know

37:01

what you're good at, let me tell

37:04

you can get better at. Okay, so

37:06

what I really liked about that was

37:08

he knew I had confidence in myself

37:10

to understand what I was doing well.

37:13

And if I didn't have confidence, he

37:15

put it, he would have told me,

37:17

I think. But he was always focused

37:19

on how I could get better. And

37:22

he did it in such a way

37:24

that it made me want to listen.

37:26

And that is the best thing he

37:29

could have done for me, because I

37:31

did become a better executive, and with

37:33

every lesson he shared. So listen, thank

37:35

you for being here. Actually, I should

37:38

say thank you for letting us be

37:40

here. Appreciate it. A lot of lessons

37:42

learned here. I think what struck me

37:44

the most was this is a defining

37:47

moment to put capital to work. The

37:49

ability to unleash, whether it's 500 million

37:51

or several trillion in the stakeholder management

37:53

of regulators and markets, is fascinating. NASDAQ

37:56

at the center of those markets has

37:58

unique window. to listen and to learn.

38:00

And in fact, your, your. key moment

38:03

about listening to stakeholders makes NASDAQ better

38:05

at what it does. Co-opitition, we're going

38:07

to take that home, I'm going to

38:09

borrow that one, I must say. Please

38:12

do. It's far better than some of

38:14

the alternatives. The other is, which I

38:16

think we should all think about, is

38:18

a forever owner. There aren't many forever

38:21

owners. We've worked with lots of families

38:23

around the world and some companies that

38:25

say they're long term, but they're not

38:27

forever owners, which is a distinct competitive

38:30

advantage advantage. Transparency in markets, liquidity, these

38:32

are the things that keep markets moving.

38:34

In a moment of uncertainty, the fact

38:37

that NASDAQ's committed to that gives a

38:39

lot of people an easier way to

38:41

sleep because there is so much uncertainty.

38:43

And finally, thinking ahead as an individual

38:46

leader and executive, do you want to

38:48

be there in five years or not

38:50

there? And are you learning in taking

38:52

the toughest assignment you can? for visibility,

38:55

for risk-taking, for success, but also for

38:57

many people, men and women ask for

38:59

it, because it may not be given

39:01

to you if you don't ask. So

39:04

lots to learn from. Thank you for

39:06

having us here. I really appreciate it.

39:08

Thanks. Tharka is great to be here,

39:11

so thank you. Take care.