0:01

He's like, you know, my biblical

0:03

worldview says that, you know, what

0:05

you do for your vocation, you're

0:07

living, what you're uniquely gifted at,

0:09

could be your ministry. I said,

0:11

no, ministry means pastor, church. He's

0:13

like, no, it doesn't. It means

0:15

God calls you to, you can

0:18

go and at the time, I

0:20

think the average church with 75

0:22

people, is that you can speak

0:24

to 75 people a week, and

0:26

I'm not saying that's bad, because

0:28

people are definitely call to do

0:30

that. and speak to 75 million

0:32

people. That's Dwayne Barnhart talking about how

0:34

God led him to work in Hollywood

0:37

as a television director and producer. Dwayne

0:39

believes that God can use us in

0:41

all kinds of work endeavors. Of course,

0:44

Paul in the New Testament was a

0:46

tentmaker by vocation while he was also

0:48

sharing the message of salvation through Christ.

0:51

And we can all do that in

0:53

the place where God has planted us.

0:55

And that's what we'll be discussing on

0:58

today's refocus with Jim Daly, a podcast

1:00

production from Focus on the Family.

1:02

On refocus I get to have

1:04

interesting conversations with various influencers in

1:06

the culture who can help us

1:08

to grow spiritually. That's our goal.

1:10

And it helps us to see

1:12

the world through a different lens

1:14

than what we might be accustomed

1:16

to. This discussion with Dwayne Barnhart

1:18

is no exception. I so enjoyed

1:20

hearing his story of how someone

1:22

made the effort to share Christ

1:24

with him and how God led

1:26

him into Hollywood, a difficult place

1:29

to work as a believer, and

1:31

how he's made it part

1:33

of his mission to encourage

1:35

men to live with integrity.

1:37

He's the executive vice president

1:39

at Coral Ridge Ministries, founder

1:41

and creative producer with the

1:43

GTB Studios, and has recently

1:45

launched a men's lifestyle brand

1:47

called Vintage Gentleman. Let's listen

1:49

in now on my recent

1:51

conversation with Dwayne Barnhart on

1:53

Refocus with Jim Daley. Dwayne,

1:55

thanks for joining me on

1:57

Refocus. It's great to have

1:59

you. Man, it is an honor

2:01

to be here. I, you know, I

2:03

look through your list of guests. You

2:05

have Osganis, Rosaria Butterfield, Dennis Quaid. And

2:08

Dwayne. Hey, Dwayne, right there with the

2:10

rest of them. No worries about that.

2:12

Yeah, Dennis was fun. He was, he's

2:14

such an easy guy to talk with.

2:16

Yeah. And a guy you could sit

2:19

and have a meal with and just

2:21

be regular guys. Yeah. Well, I'm used

2:23

to being behind the camera. I actually

2:25

got a chance to direct Dennis. Oh,

2:27

really. Few years ago. Yeah. Oh, that's

2:29

cool. You've had an interesting career. Yeah,

2:32

from an early age. I was too,

2:34

by the way, you couldn't have told

2:36

me that I wasn't going to be

2:38

an NFL football player. Things have changed

2:40

a lot since I play, though. How

2:43

did that interest begin? What got you

2:45

moving toward, I guess you just say

2:47

entertainment? Yeah. Well, you know, you hear

2:49

people say, you know, talk about calling

2:51

and vocation and work and all these

2:54

things. And I can tell you that

2:56

just based on my experience, there's no

2:58

doubt that I'm living in the calling

3:00

that God created me for, created to

3:02

create a to create. And I say

3:04

that because it was very unconventional how

3:07

I, you know, ended up in the

3:09

industry. So, you know, I remember, this

3:11

is kind of a full circle story

3:13

when I was in elementary school, fourth

3:15

or fifth grade, and this is when

3:18

I was drawing, you know, when the

3:20

teacher said write a report, it was,

3:22

I'm going to be an NFL football

3:24

player. Of course. So my mom took

3:26

me to this, and I don't know,

3:28

still don't know why I should ask

3:31

her. D. James Kennedy, Coleridge, President Richard

3:33

Fort Lauderdale. Yeah, we had a guest

3:35

speaker in, and so we for some

3:37

reason went, and it was a filmmaker.

3:39

And he showed his little film, a

3:42

short film, and he talked about the

3:44

importance of utilizing this media to share

3:46

the gospel. And at that age, I

3:48

didn't have any aspirations to be a

3:50

filmmaker. I didn't really understand it all.

3:52

So fast forward, I thought I was

3:55

going to be in the, you know,

3:57

family business, but in high school. I

3:59

still didn't know what I was to

4:01

do and I took an aptitude test.

4:03

And I'm actually, yeah, I had to

4:06

shoot. Yeah. And I didn't have any

4:08

editing software, so I had to shoot,

4:10

scene by scene, and fade to black.

4:12

So I had to edit as I

4:14

was filming. And I made movies. And

4:17

so when I ended up in college,

4:19

I still didn't know what I was

4:21

to do and I took an aptitude

4:23

test. And this is so weird, because

4:25

I still have the aptitude test. Oh.

4:27

Oh, that's good. Yeah, and so I

4:30

asked the counselor, I'm like, well, I

4:32

don't know what to do. And he's

4:34

like, well, let's look through your results

4:36

here. And I'll fast forward it because

4:38

we went through a few things, but

4:41

he said, I think you should be

4:43

a filmmaker. I said, really? It's pretty

4:45

declarative for a counselor. I mean, yeah,

4:47

normally they say, you know, you should

4:49

look at the arts and then let

4:51

you find your way. And then this

4:54

idea, Hollywood, especially back then, we didn't

4:56

have cell phones and all of the

4:58

media, so the other side of the

5:00

country was, that could have, may have

5:02

been China, it was like so far

5:05

away, you know, I mean, it's like,

5:07

Hollywood. But you moved to LA. I

5:09

eventually did. Did you go to school

5:11

and then move or did you go

5:13

scout it, then come back? What happened?

5:15

So unfortunately, I got to caught up

5:18

in the fun part in the fun

5:20

part. you're not too much fun. You're

5:22

not having to much fun. I'm not

5:24

paying for this anymore. So I ended

5:26

up dropping out to college. Okay. Found

5:29

myself in Fort Lauderdale pursuing a career

5:31

in the stock market. Like you talk

5:33

about the complete opposite. Not only did

5:35

that because my brother was like, I

5:37

got a friend. Yeah. So I actually

5:39

took this series seven. Yeah. That's not

5:42

my jam. Yeah. And I had this

5:44

person I ran into said he should

5:46

be an actor. So I started acting.

5:48

on tables. Yeah, right, right, exactly, that's

5:50

what you do. And I weigh your

5:53

tables and I act. and I became

5:55

a union actor and I ended up

5:57

going out to LA and picked up

5:59

by a couple of gigs. Yeah, I

6:01

got on a television show and was

6:04

being written in and this whole thing.

6:06

And then God. Yeah, it was pretty

6:08

good. And I thought my life was,

6:10

but I wasn't a believer. I wasn't

6:12

walking with the Lord. Okay. So I

6:14

came back to Florida to save money

6:17

and God save me. Wow. And there

6:19

was this radical. Change my life now

6:21

in that situation. That's got to be

6:23

a little that's like a head jerk

6:25

experience I mean you think you're going

6:28

this way I mean you're living your

6:30

life probably doing things now you look

6:32

back on you wished you hadn't done

6:34

I get that but then You know,

6:36

wow, the Lord gets a hold of

6:38

you. Did you just talk about that

6:41

for a minute? I mean, you're how

6:43

old? 24? 25. Actually, 24, 25. Yeah.

6:45

Right in that space. That's where a

6:47

lot of young men particularly, pick up

6:49

that relationship with the Lord. If it's

6:52

going to happen, it's usually happening right

6:54

in that space. You know, you've done

6:56

a few things that you regret and

6:58

now you're thinking, okay, I need to

7:00

be more serious about my life. was

7:02

not on the plan. So it was

7:05

shocking to say, well, what happened was

7:07

there was another actor that I used

7:09

to run into at auditions. And one

7:11

day, I had heard he became a

7:13

Jesus freak. And so one day I'm

7:16

at an audition and so one day

7:18

I'm at an audition and had a

7:20

big bay window and I could see

7:22

him from way down the road walking

7:24

up and I was like, oh man,

7:27

I don't want to talk to this

7:29

guy. He's a Jesus freak, you know.

7:31

So I did the old, you know.

7:33

And I'm holding them hiding behind him.

7:35

I hear Dwayne and I was like,

7:37

oh, I saw me. And I peek

7:40

over the top and I thought, oh,

7:42

I'll shut him up. I go, hey,

7:44

buddy, heard your Jesus freak. I might

7:46

just lay down. Just right at it.

7:48

Well, he goes, yeah, pretty much and

7:51

took all my ammo away. Yeah, yeah.

7:53

I had nothing left. I was like,

7:55

oh, well, what's happening? with a smile

7:57

on your face. He was relentless. I

7:59

wasn't smiling. It's only your eternal salvation.

8:01

I mean, I mean, it's just that,

8:04

you know. But at that point, I

8:06

didn't see that. I was thinking this

8:08

is a nuisance. I'll become a Christian

8:10

sometime when I'm wearing down the road.

8:12

Yeah. When I'm ready. Boy, that's a

8:15

word. That's powerful. Right? Okay, so he

8:17

was relentless. What happened. Just kept calling

8:19

me, man. I was like always invitingitinging.

8:21

Bible studies. Bible studies. And then one

8:23

day he called me, this is the

8:25

truth, it was a, I think it

8:28

was a Saturday, and he's like, hey,

8:30

we go to church. And this is,

8:32

again, there was no caller idea, it

8:34

was a landline, and I was so

8:36

mad, I custom. And I was like,

8:39

you got to stop freaking calling me,

8:41

man. Like, seriously, like, this is annoying.

8:43

I'm going to the club. Thirdly, I'm

8:45

already getting my pre-game going. And church

8:47

is tomorrow. There's no, no, this church

8:50

has a Saturday service. I'm like, what

8:52

kind of church is that? Saturday service.

8:54

He's coaching upon my Saturday. Right. And

8:56

he's like, and there's a band. And

8:58

by the way, I know you don't

9:00

go out until 11 o'clock at night.

9:03

So the church is at six, go

9:05

to church, I'll go to church. He

9:07

goes. Okay, deal. Wow. I hung up

9:09

the phone. I went over to my

9:11

cousin I was roommates with. Hey, you

9:14

wanna go to church? I heard they

9:16

thought pretty girls there. He's like, sure?

9:18

You need some moral support. More support.

9:20

So we go to church. I get

9:22

dressed up in a three-piece suit and

9:24

this is a Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale.

9:27

Everybody's in Birkenstocks and a barn hair

9:29

bands and that, you know. I'm like,

9:31

where am I? But my cousin ended

9:33

up going forward at this altar call.

9:35

I'm wrecked. I'm trying to hide it.

9:38

So I put my head down and

9:40

might, but I couldn't get the shoulders

9:42

to stop because I was like bawling.

9:44

And my buddy touched me and I

9:46

was on my shoulder and he's like,

9:48

you okay. And I was having this

9:51

like, wow, almost devil angel thing, like

9:53

get out of here. But this is

9:55

where you're supposed to find peace, like,

9:57

okay, but you need to leave. So

9:59

you know that, the old term, the

10:02

hound to heaven? Yeah. For a week,

10:04

the hound to heaven pursued me relentlessly.

10:06

I was running. Like I was negotiating,

10:08

I was trying to get out of

10:10

this. It was that thick. That spiritual

10:13

sense. I cried. I cried for a

10:15

while straight. like I couldn't stop crying

10:17

and finally one night I didn't answer

10:19

an altar call I was in my

10:21

bedroom and I not in an arrogant

10:23

way I I just lifted my hands

10:26

on my eye. I don't know what

10:28

you want from me God I don't

10:30

know what to do but I can't

10:32

do this anymore so take my life

10:34

and before I knew what the protocol

10:37

was like you know you repent of

10:39

your sin you confess and all these

10:41

it was just coming out of me

10:43

yeah and so that that eventually led

10:45

you to moody Bible Institute, right? So

10:47

how much time passed from that dramatic

10:50

night to you enrolling at Moody? It

10:52

was only a couple of years. I

10:54

mean, it felt like a fast track.

10:56

When I say 180, it was always

10:58

running hard, one direction, and I just

11:01

ran equally, maybe even more. Yeah. So

11:03

you end up at Moody, that, wow,

11:05

that's an experience. It was an extension

11:07

course. I had gone through the internship

11:09

for the pastorate. I had now been

11:11

serving in leadership. I was teaching new

11:14

believers, new believers classes classes, classes. I

11:16

mean these these pastors are telling me

11:18

I'm a pastor so I guess I'm

11:20

a pastor and so I had gotten

11:22

a job this is funny because one

11:25

of the elders had a production company

11:27

okay and I ended up getting a

11:29

job there and the job I got

11:31

was to raise money for the production

11:33

you're right I stunk at it I

11:36

thought I'd be good because you're doing

11:38

actor I just read a script I

11:40

can't write a check for 20 grand

11:42

yeah yeah exactly well God just kept

11:44

closing those doors and even other guys

11:46

who were helping me, they've never seen,

11:49

I don't know what's going on. Let

11:51

me ask you this question, a theological

11:53

question, really. In that moment, I mean,

11:55

looking back, I had experiences like that,

11:57

a door would close, a door would

12:00

open. You kind of think you understand

12:02

it at that point. But sometimes it's

12:04

not that clear. Looking back on that,

12:06

is it that obvious to you now

12:08

going, okay, the Lord was letting me

12:10

go down this corridor, not this one?

12:13

That's what I'm saying, like you hear

12:15

people talk about calling this. This is,

12:17

for me, undeniable. When I got the

12:19

job, the boss ended up liking me,

12:21

but I got my pink slip. He's

12:24

like, you're like, this is the guy

12:26

at church. He's an elder at the

12:28

church. And I ended up getting paired

12:30

up with him eventually to do the

12:32

internship for the pastorate. So we were

12:34

both pursuing the pastorate. But he gave

12:37

me the pink slip. He's like, I

12:39

don't want to fire you, but I

12:41

can't, you can't, you're obviously not good

12:43

at this. I had to agree. He

12:45

goes, can you write. He's like, I'm

12:48

trying to give, I'm throwing you a

12:50

line here, would just take it. Can

12:52

you write? I said, oh, sure. Yes.

12:54

He goes, if you go over to

12:56

production right now, write a script, get

12:58

it approved by the client, you'll, you

13:01

can stay here, but you'll be in

13:03

production. Wow. I said, okay. So I

13:05

get on dot matrix and it's DOS.

13:07

And I type away, I write a

13:09

script, I write a script, I fax

13:12

it to the client. And within an

13:14

hour, facts is back, signed. So I

13:16

walk up, knock on the boss's door,

13:18

walk in, I said, here, and he's

13:20

like, what are you doing? I said,

13:23

you tell me write a script? He

13:25

goes, yeah, I told you write a

13:27

script, but you got to write a

13:29

script, but you got to get approved.

13:31

I go, well, it's approved. He's like,

13:33

well, it's approved. He's like, well, it's

13:36

a two week process. And now he's

13:38

like a two week process. And I

13:40

walked in and I said, hey, thanks

13:42

for the opportunity. What are you talking

13:44

about? I said, my desk is empty.

13:47

He goes, yeah, because you're in production.

13:49

Get over there. Start working. And that's

13:51

how I started my production. Where did

13:53

that journey take you? What were those

13:55

next couple of years like? Or how

13:57

long did you do that? I had

14:00

been doing that for a couple of

14:02

years when I started enrolling. in the

14:04

Moody Extension course, and it was really

14:06

the professor, Dr. Robert Emmons, who was

14:08

teaching Isaiah, was an Isaiah class, and

14:11

he, for whatever reason, took interest

14:13

in me, and was always curious,

14:15

like, why, you know, why are

14:18

you here? What's happening?

14:20

I told him, I'm called to be

14:22

a pastor, and he's like, oh,

14:24

well, what do you do for work?

14:26

And I said, can you stay after

14:29

class? I said, yeah. And so, um, by

14:31

the way, I was so theologically

14:33

wise and deep. I mean,

14:35

I was already like four years old

14:37

in the Lord, three. No, I knew

14:40

deep things. And I would like tell

14:42

him all my deep knowledge and he

14:44

would give me a book and I

14:47

would open it and read it. It'd

14:49

be the opposite of what I tell.

14:51

Yeah. He was asked me to stay.

14:54

He goes, listen, I'm. I'm not of

14:56

the camp where we say God, you know,

14:58

I'm going to say God said. He's like,

15:00

but I have this impression and I feel

15:02

like I would be wrong for me not

15:04

to tell you, but I don't know why

15:06

you're here. There's a pastor being cranked out

15:08

every day. I'm putting out pastors all the

15:11

time. And he mentioned this world

15:13

biblical worldview and I didn't even

15:15

know what that meant yet. He's

15:17

like, you know, my biblical worldview

15:19

says that, you know, what you

15:21

do for your vocation, you're living,

15:23

what you're uniquely gifted at could

15:25

be your ministry. And I

15:27

was like, no, ministry means pastor, church.

15:29

He's like, no, it doesn't. It means

15:32

God calls you to, you can go

15:34

and at the time, I think the

15:36

average church was 75 people, is that

15:38

you can speak to 75 people a

15:40

week. And I'm not saying that's bad,

15:42

because people are definitely call to do.

15:44

be in Hollywood and speak to 75 million

15:47

people. Yes. And I was like, who is

15:49

this man coming against God's anointed? I

15:51

prayed against him going home. I was

15:53

still offended. Yeah, no, it's, you know,

15:56

it's great advice. I remember when I

15:58

was working in the business world. because

16:00

I did my undergrad in business,

16:02

my NBA, study at Wased University

16:04

in Japan, came back, went to

16:06

work for international paper, which is

16:08

a big Fortune 500. And I

16:10

was working out of the Bay

16:12

Area while Jean was going to

16:14

UC Davis. She was doing pre-vet.

16:16

What a cute little couple, right?

16:18

She was going to be the

16:20

veterinarian. I was going to be

16:22

a successful business guy. But I

16:24

remember some great advice when this

16:26

opportunity with focus popped up. I

16:28

remember talking. with a mentor of

16:30

mine, Jerry Lawson, who did our

16:32

marriage counseling, pre-marriage counseling. And so

16:34

I called him and he was

16:36

a big hitter in the insurance

16:38

business and his challenge was similar

16:40

to what your friend told you.

16:42

You know, we've got plenty of

16:44

Christians and Christian work. We need

16:46

more Christians in secular work. And

16:48

I think you should really think

16:50

about staying where you're at so

16:52

you can influence the business world.

16:54

That really, it gave me a

16:56

pause. Obviously I went a different

16:58

direction, but it was similar advice.

17:00

And looking back now, are you

17:02

glad so far that you chose

17:04

to stick with entertainment? Absolutely. I

17:06

was reading Spurgeon's book lecture to

17:08

my students. And that's when I

17:10

realize I'm definitely not a pastor.

17:12

Like a shepherd, a teacher, you

17:14

know, there's different callings, but maybe

17:16

teacher, but definitely a pastor is

17:18

a very specific calling. Like you

17:20

have to be the guy who

17:22

gets to call it three in

17:24

the morning and you're just like,

17:26

I want to serve this person.

17:28

Right. I mean, that's part of

17:31

it. Martin Luther was a big

17:33

influence for you. What, what, in

17:35

his writings, what caught your attention

17:37

in this regard? You know he

17:39

was speaking and then somebody came

17:41

up to him afterwards and said,

17:43

you know, I'm a Christian now.

17:45

What do I do in Martin

17:47

Luther said, well, what do you

17:49

do for a living? He said,

17:51

well, I'm a cobbler. He goes,

17:53

okay, we'll go make a good

17:55

shoe and sell it for a

17:57

fair price. Right. And then he

17:59

went on to say, that doesn't

18:01

mean go in so little crosses

18:03

on your shoe. craftsmanship and quality

18:05

and excellence. So go do that.

18:07

I think that's great. I think

18:09

we have lost that because we've

18:11

so professionalized segments of the church,

18:13

you know, and it's not bad,

18:15

but I remember a good friend

18:17

who used to work here to

18:19

focus on the family, Charlie Jarvis,

18:21

brilliant guy, and he talked about

18:23

the door of London, and this

18:25

is from, you know, 1500, 1600s,

18:27

1600s, and it was the minister

18:29

of bread, the minister of meat,

18:31

the minister of poultry, and the

18:33

point of it was that... Everybody

18:35

looks at their vocation as a

18:37

ministry, and that's the point you're

18:39

making with the cobbler. We have

18:41

so gotten away from that, haven't

18:43

we? I think so. I think

18:45

so. And for me, I've always

18:47

lived working the parallel, so I've

18:49

always stayed on Main Street, but

18:51

also doing faith content simultaneously, outside

18:53

of the time where divorce hit

18:55

my home, and that I took

18:57

a... Paws from ministry for obviously

18:59

well, and that's painful and that's

19:01

not the kind of the target

19:03

of our discussion today But yeah,

19:05

you know, I think people do

19:07

go through that and that's part

19:09

of the experience for all kinds

19:11

of reasons And we get that

19:13

but the Lord's there for everybody

19:15

You know, he's there to pick

19:17

up the pieces. Obviously here folks

19:19

on the family, we're striving to

19:21

keep every marriage together. Make parents

19:23

as healthy as they can be,

19:25

so they can parent their kids.

19:27

Let me continue with the story

19:29

though. Hollywood doesn't seem to be

19:31

the place where Christian attitudes are

19:33

appreciated. At least that's the impression

19:35

we get. I do know a

19:37

lot of Christians that are working

19:39

in Hollywood on scripts and other

19:41

things, and they say it is

19:43

a battle, but they're glad to

19:45

be there just like you. Why

19:47

are you glad to be there?

19:49

You just kind of said it,

19:51

but I'm going to hit you.

19:53

Yeah, yeah. Well, you can't even

19:55

be really a conservative, much less

19:57

have a faith component to your

19:59

life. So it's very difficult. Like

20:01

I know people who have been

20:03

fired literally for... voting. That's terrible.

20:05

Yeah, that's so anti-American really. It

20:07

is. It's voting for the wrong

20:10

Canada, but not just voting. Well,

20:12

and you know, Canada doesn't always

20:14

line up with God either. Correct.

20:16

But the whole point is just

20:18

an attitude of, you know, your,

20:20

whether your political position lines up.

20:22

more with, you know, life and

20:24

marriage and the traditional definitions that

20:26

we get from scripture. What confounds

20:28

me is that people are so

20:30

intolerant of it, especially those that

20:32

carry the label of tolerant. They're

20:34

extremely intolerant when it comes to

20:36

this. The most intolerant. Yeah, and

20:38

you get it every day in

20:40

Hollywood. For sure. And that's why

20:42

I always say, vote, policy, not

20:44

person. But in that context, I

20:46

mean, how do you stay buoyant?

20:48

How do you stay up? You

20:50

know, core group having good friends,

20:52

good fellowship, a good church, community,

20:54

all of those things are super

20:56

important. I've met some of the

20:58

best Christian friends I have in

21:00

Los Angeles. Believe it or not,

21:02

you know, born and raised. One

21:04

of my, I call my Westie

21:06

Bestie, this guy, Davy Muxlow, you

21:08

know, USC grad, entrepreneur, made him.

21:10

He invented Ram Board, which is

21:12

his floor covering. He ended up

21:14

selling the company. He's been retired

21:16

since his early 40s. But man,

21:18

what a great legacy his family

21:20

has like Christian legacy, his grandpa

21:22

and dad and him and his

21:24

kids. There's a few stories like

21:26

that out there. Yeah, and I'm

21:28

solid believers and that always, I

21:30

always looked, you know, somewhat, you

21:32

know. covering the wrong way. Like,

21:34

oh, man, I want that. I

21:36

wish I had that because my

21:38

parents were divorced and I didn't

21:40

have that. But I see the

21:42

legacy in his life and then

21:44

people around him. And I had

21:46

friends who were specifically working. I

21:48

stayed out of the studio system

21:50

for the reason that I didn't

21:52

feel like my conscious will allow

21:54

me to do certain things. And

21:56

I have friends who did stay

21:58

in the studio system until they

22:00

couldn't. And one buddy was a

22:02

VP at Fox Studios. some point

22:04

he he remembers like telling his

22:06

secretary no calls you know cancel

22:08

my meetings he closes the door

22:10

and he's having a real crisis

22:12

because they wanted to promote this

22:14

one particular show that was very

22:16

anti-crisis and he ended up having

22:18

to you know he called his

22:20

wife said I don't I don't

22:22

think I can do this anymore

22:24

and she's like yeah why so

22:26

leave and he needed that but

22:28

he needed that yeah no that's

22:30

fair and so he ended up

22:32

leaving and then recently like last

22:34

year of a friend of mine

22:36

who was a part of starting

22:38

the Disney character voices Rick Dempsey

22:40

had been there for 35 years

22:42

Disney studios one of the founding

22:44

members, senior vice president. He called

22:46

me, he's like, I'm done. I

22:49

can't do it. I'm taking early

22:51

retirement. Well, and that's happened to

22:53

a lot of Disney execs. Yeah.

22:55

We know a few that, you

22:57

know, are believers and it's been

22:59

difficult for them to work in

23:01

that environment. But I mean, again,

23:03

that's the kind of the prejudice

23:05

that exists in some of those

23:07

what are now referred to as

23:09

the woke companies, right? Yeah. Well,

23:11

again, like. That parallel, I, early

23:13

days Google, so the digital world

23:15

started to come in, traditional media,

23:17

and then new media, digital media,

23:19

and Google had launched, they were

23:21

launching the Google ad marketplace, and

23:23

I had a friend who sold

23:25

his company to Google, so I

23:27

got grafted in to help create

23:29

and launch this Google ad marketplace.

23:31

So I did a lot of

23:33

work with Google. I created just.

23:35

hundreds of radio spots and eventually

23:37

television spots that Google would distribute.

23:39

I had a contract with YouTube

23:41

as a content provider. And then

23:43

I worked with a lot of

23:45

the top, you know, probably some

23:47

of the most well-known global brands,

23:49

whether it was Godiva chocolate, Southwest

23:51

Airlines, AT&T, Panasonic, Mandon Oriental. work

23:53

with some vineyards out in Napa,

23:55

like different places. Yeah, that's so

23:57

good. Let me bring us back

23:59

for a minute because hopefully some

24:01

young men are listening and young

24:03

women too, but... We're really talking

24:05

as we get deeper into the

24:07

content about how to help men,

24:09

young men particularly. But this idea

24:11

that you can actually be a

24:13

Christian and have a secular vocation,

24:15

I mean it seems to be

24:17

obvious, but because the world is

24:19

separating at such rapid speed right

24:21

now, separating in a context of

24:23

over political issues, spiritual issues, etc.

24:25

that it almost feels like it's

24:27

impossible to maintain that good witness.

24:29

But you think of early Rome.

24:31

There was no friend of Christianity.

24:33

Those tensions have mostly always existed

24:35

for the church, anywhere it's found.

24:37

What are some of those basic

24:39

concepts for a 25, 30-year-old young

24:41

man to be firm in his

24:43

faith in an environment where you

24:45

have to make choices? kind of

24:47

like mishak, shadrak, and a bindigo.

24:49

I mean, I'm not gonna bend

24:51

my knee. Yeah. And eat your

24:53

meat. I'll eat the vegetables, but

24:55

not the meat. I mean, it's

24:57

amazing that that story is in

24:59

there for a reason. Yeah. But

25:01

how do you apply that with

25:03

diligence every day? I mean, it

25:05

really is a matter of conscience.

25:07

You have to have a close

25:09

relation with the Lord. You have

25:11

to have conviction. Got to know

25:13

the word. You got to be

25:15

a man of character, a virtue,

25:17

a virtue, a virtue, virtue, virtue,

25:19

virtue, or a woman, or a

25:21

woman. And you have to live

25:23

those out, that has to be

25:25

your identity. Yeah. And you will

25:28

eventually, I'm sure, depending on where

25:30

you go in the entertainment world,

25:32

you're gonna be confronted with things

25:34

that are gonna, you're gonna have

25:36

to make a decision. Were you

25:38

able to. Have those conversations spiritually

25:40

speaking with the non-believing crew and

25:42

people around you? Were you at

25:44

ease with that? And what did

25:46

that look like? Yeah, there's a

25:48

couple ways. So also being in

25:50

Hollywood, I was working with Ray

25:52

Comfort and Kirk Cameron on a

25:54

show called The Way of the

25:56

Master. So I was producing, you

25:58

know, we did 52 episodes of

26:00

this series. And so that was

26:02

a very Christian effort. that I

26:04

was doing at the same time

26:06

of these other things. And so

26:08

in that world, I would intentionally

26:10

hire, you know, non-believing crew to

26:12

come and experience. Yeah, you know,

26:14

for two reasons. Unfortunately, they were

26:16

largely more creative for some reason.

26:18

Like we've, that's another thing about

26:20

excellence in Christianity and creativity that

26:22

that needs to be addressed. But

26:24

the secular world in these liberal

26:26

non-believing. You know crew were so

26:28

creative and so I'd bring them

26:30

in and we would have really

26:32

lively discussions during meal times You

26:34

know whether no matter what meal

26:36

it was The content was very

26:38

Christian. So it wasn't a difficult

26:40

You know started the conversation and

26:42

they're like hey, you know, he

26:44

said this and what do you

26:46

mean by that and and then

26:48

you know, of course We tried

26:50

to maintain it from the politics

26:52

talk because that was that would

26:54

get down different rabbit holes, but

26:56

just just sharing why we believe

26:58

what we believe. Yeah, you and

27:00

Kurt Cameron, in fact, you're on

27:02

some street corner in L.A. and

27:04

across some gang members or something.

27:06

Yeah, we were on that. Yeah,

27:08

so part of that show we

27:10

would go out regularly and do

27:12

man on the street, so they

27:14

would they would share faith like

27:16

to strangers. Okay, we would capture

27:18

that. And somebody spots what looks

27:20

like gang members. And so Kirk

27:22

walks up and starts a conversation.

27:24

And yeah, it was pretty heated.

27:26

At one point, one of the

27:28

bigger guys seemed like he was

27:30

on substance, you know, started cutting

27:32

into the conversation Kirk was having

27:34

with another one of the guys

27:36

speaking. He's like, God didn't say

27:38

that. And he's like interrupting and

27:40

like getting a little bit aggressive.

27:42

And so it was uncomfortable to

27:44

say the least, but we got

27:46

through that shot now, five years

27:48

later, one of the team members

27:50

spotted that big guy. Street preaching.

27:52

He had your... moment. Yeah. It's

27:54

like the Lord and the hounds

27:56

of heaven. That's exactly what happened

27:58

and he was clean cut and

28:00

he was on the streets of

28:02

Hollywood Boulevard and he's sharing his

28:04

faith and said yeah man that

28:07

was me. He confirmed it was

28:09

him that was doing that back

28:11

then. You know looking back on

28:13

that friend that was relentless. Do

28:15

you have any reservation about his

28:17

approach or what? I mean. I

28:19

always say, again, like way the

28:21

master was very specific at how

28:23

to share your faith. I like

28:25

to believe that, you know, you

28:27

have to be spirit led. It's

28:29

good to have the tools and components

28:31

and, you know, know what you believe and

28:33

why you believe it and be able to

28:35

give an account for that. But I think

28:37

you have to be spirit led as well

28:40

because I have been in circumstances

28:42

where I felt compelled to share clearly,

28:44

unapologetically. what could

28:46

seem like even forcefully. And

28:48

then I've been compelled to share

28:50

in a different way when I've seen

28:53

God work in both of those

28:55

different tool out of the tool

28:57

chest. Yeah, absolutely. Because you know,

28:59

we want to make it, you know, a

29:01

formula and it's not a formula. The

29:04

God says I'm the one who saves

29:06

and we get to be a part

29:08

of that if we're open and

29:10

willing. Yeah. So eventually you do

29:12

your. tour of duty in Hollywood and

29:14

then that ends up coming to a

29:16

close and you go back to Florida?

29:18

Yeah, so we were homeschooling and it

29:21

was really difficult homeschooling in California

29:23

at the time. We had to

29:25

start our own school, our own

29:27

academy. We had to have legal

29:29

counsel on retainer and and there

29:31

was just no support group. Like

29:33

there was one Christian school at

29:36

the road that had just thought

29:38

about starting a program for homeschooling. So

29:40

there was nothing. Right. out there. And

29:42

we would visit Florida every year and

29:44

Florida just seemed like, oh my goodness,

29:46

we have, you know, this dolphin football

29:48

player is going to speak to our

29:51

kids today for track of, you know,

29:53

like what? Oh, we have there's scientists

29:55

coming from NASA. And you're like, wait

29:57

a second, I can't even get this.

29:59

Nothing. So my... What a different environment.

30:01

Yeah, and so that became attractive for

30:04

the kids and my then wife who

30:06

was teaching them. And so a couple

30:08

of years of that we decided that

30:10

it would be best for the family.

30:13

to be in Florida now. I've never

30:15

stopped to this day. I'm still working

30:17

in Los Angeles. Okay, so you do

30:20

a big commute or what? I spend

30:22

time there. Yeah, back in Florida. And

30:24

you did hit a family crisis. You

30:26

mentioned that lightly. What did you learn

30:29

through that process? And describe it in

30:31

your awards. Yeah. I mean, it upended

30:33

my life. I mean, again, that wasn't,

30:36

we didn't use the D word in

30:38

our house. Yeah. And the kids reminded

30:40

reminded us of that. My then wife,

30:42

wife, I think, you know, physiologically, chemically,

30:45

hormoneally, there's change that happened to your

30:47

body, have four kids, she's small frame,

30:49

insomnia, depression, and then she's not wanting

30:52

to walk to the Lord and kind

30:54

of just like I'm getting rid of

30:56

all the men in my life. God,

30:58

my father, heavenly father, my earthly father,

31:01

she pushed aside, and then her husband.

31:03

Wow. And so that was, that was

31:05

tough. Kids all were shipwrecked. And for,

31:07

I was shipwrecked, I mean, I had

31:10

good theology, but this is where theology

31:12

is tested. Like theology, meaning your view

31:14

of God, well, my view of God

31:17

was challenged. And then what I realized

31:19

was my identity was not rooted in

31:21

what it should be. So my identity

31:23

was made up of all externals. My

31:26

husband, I'm a father, I do ministry

31:28

work, I do television, I'm a filmmaker,

31:30

I'm a storyteller, that was my identity,

31:33

it was all external. What I learned

31:35

through this was true identity is internal.

31:37

It's character, it's virtue, it's unique giftings,

31:39

who God, who's God called you to

31:42

be. We need to find, and that's

31:44

the problem with men I'm finding largely

31:46

is that we, it's easy to identify

31:49

with the things we do, we build

31:51

things, we burn them down, those are

31:53

our successes, our... that's what we tend

31:55

to make our identity but it's really

31:58

who we are inside. Why do you

32:00

think young men and you know I

32:02

don't want to press into that more

32:05

it's a divorce it happened and you're

32:07

moving through it and I'm sure you

32:09

felt God's presence in a lot of

32:11

different ways but it's a valley yeah

32:14

life has valleys and I get that

32:16

why do you think young men today

32:18

are suffering you know Jordan Peterson talks

32:20

about Elon Musk talks about it there's

32:23

just a sense that young men particularly

32:25

are just flailing. There's no real direction

32:27

for them, role models are few. What's

32:30

happening spiritually for young men in this

32:32

culture today? Well, I mean, we're bombarded

32:34

with a narrative and that narrative is

32:36

anti-Christian. You know, a lot of people

32:39

want to make it political and make

32:41

it all these other things, but at

32:43

the end of the day, they're trying

32:46

to get rid of Christianity because that's

32:48

what our country was founded on these

32:50

principles. There's no doubt in my mind.

32:52

Well, and you tie that to masculinity

32:55

or? Absolutely. So we'd stop teaching men

32:57

how to be men, you know. responsibility,

32:59

all the good stuff. Yeah, 100% and

33:02

tool sets that go with that. How

33:04

to think, I mean, look at Isaac

33:06

Watts wrote a book in 1800 about

33:08

the use of logic and deduction. I

33:11

mean, if we were using logic and

33:13

deduction in today's conversations, I mean, I

33:15

think we would be coming to some

33:17

different. Yeah, results, you know, that's really

33:20

good. You know, we had the privilege

33:22

this summer, the boys, Gene and I,

33:24

so my boys are 24 and 22.

33:27

They went through classical education. So we

33:29

went through Italy and we went to

33:31

all the museums and we went to

33:33

all the museums and it was awesome

33:36

because their classical education came alive. I

33:38

mean, we were pulling them through the

33:40

museum. You imagine the parents going, yeah,

33:43

come on boys, we got to go.

33:45

But dad, I want to see this

33:47

painting this painting. philosophy and Troy took

33:49

me through every image in that painting

33:52

and said here's what is being depicted

33:54

here you know Socrates is pointing up

33:56

because he was the only philosopher that

33:59

believe there was a higher being, a

34:01

God, and they depicted him pointing up

34:03

in the painting to describe that. And,

34:05

you know, just wonderful stuff like that.

34:08

And the reason I'm mentioning this is

34:10

just that attitude of knowledge we're in

34:12

the ruins of the forum in Rome.

34:14

That's where the Senate would meet. And

34:17

we're looking at the aqueducts that are,

34:19

much of that is still standing, you

34:21

know, 2,000 years later. And Troy said

34:24

to me. It's amazing that human beings

34:26

once thought the way these people thought

34:28

what happened to us. Wow. Yeah. What

34:30

a statement. In terms of virtue and

34:33

you know there were horrible things going

34:35

on in the Roman Empire not to

34:37

oversell it but there were some amazing

34:40

attributes about character and virtue and values

34:42

and things like that. Christianity thankfully did

34:44

the nice overlay on all that. But

34:46

those are things that even my young

34:49

son picked up on there. Well you

34:51

look at art and architecture and everything

34:53

else that... Oh the excellence that was

34:56

done. We can't even recreate them. Can't

34:58

get close in the debates they would

35:00

have and you know they depicted some

35:02

of those. Vintage Gentleman. That's that's something

35:05

you're into now. I want you to

35:07

describe it but you emphasize a return

35:09

to traditional manhood. So let's talk about

35:12

where the name came from and what

35:14

is vintage gentleman. Sounds good. Yeah. Well

35:16

here's what it's not. It doesn't mean

35:18

old dude. Even though I'm a kind

35:21

of an old dude, vintage gentleman actually...

35:23

No, I'm kind of an old dude.

35:25

You're still in the middle season. Well,

35:27

if I live to be 110 maybe.

35:30

Okay. Which I, you know, if God

35:32

sees fit. Anyway, vintage gentleman was actually,

35:34

the idea came from a quote from

35:37

Oz Guinness. We've mentioned Oz. We've mentioned

35:39

Oz. that sometimes in order for society

35:41

to move forward we have to go

35:43

back and it left an indelible impression

35:46

on me. I thought, wow, that is

35:48

so true. He was talking about the

35:50

founding documents. But I think about, like,

35:53

we all have an authority, whether you're

35:55

a Christian or not, there's an authority

35:57

or somewhere you get your information from.

35:59

For me, it's the Bible, that is

36:02

my authority. And so the vintage gentleman,

36:04

the vintage part is the going back.

36:06

To the traditional manhood, masculinity. virtue character,

36:09

the going forward parts of the gentleman

36:11

part, something that I think we're missing

36:13

in today's culture is a gentleman. So

36:15

that's where it came from. Sometimes in

36:18

order to move forward we have to

36:20

go back. You know what's so fun

36:22

as a dad, again my boy's being

36:24

in their 20s, one of my sons

36:27

dating somebody and I happened to meet

36:29

her and my son and as we

36:31

left the parking lot of... wherever we

36:34

bumped into each other, he goes and

36:36

opens the door for her. And I'm

36:38

going, oh my goodness, he did listen.

36:40

Yeah. I thought it was amazing. It

36:43

is amazing. And for a 24-year-old to

36:45

go over and open the door for

36:47

his young lady, I thought that was

36:50

kind of fun. Yeah, and she probably

36:52

didn't even know what he was doing.

36:54

Oh, you know, I didn't, I didn't

36:56

want to dwell. Yeah. I didn't want

36:59

to pry, but I just thought it

37:01

was a great little illustration of that.

37:03

You speak more to what it does.

37:06

What is vintage gentleman doing? Yeah. What

37:08

are you trying to accomplish? That's my

37:10

craft. That's what I do. That's what

37:12

filmmaking, media, content creation. It's all about

37:15

stories. So vintage gentlemen is a media

37:17

company. It's a men's lifestyle brand. There's

37:19

products and stuff that go with it

37:22

as well. But the idea is, if

37:24

we share stories, kind of like what

37:26

we're doing today, You share your story,

37:28

your background, your experiences. I'm gonna inevitably

37:31

learn something from you potentially. Now if

37:33

it's something deep, like I was talking

37:35

with Scott earlier about divorce, like we

37:37

can share that together and help each

37:40

other walk through that. So no matter

37:42

where you are in life, we're interviewing

37:44

men and women, by the way, it's

37:47

not just, we're not just folks. on

37:49

having men tell stories. We want women

37:51

to tell stories because women know what

37:53

they want in a man as well.

37:56

Yeah, right. And so, and we're telling

37:58

stories about people who have built great

38:00

things and maybe burnt some great things,

38:03

you know, some wins, some losses, failure

38:05

successes. We're also doing other pieces of

38:07

content. So we'll have a podcast. We'll

38:09

have a how-to video series, which I'll

38:12

be dead before we can exhaust that

38:14

because it'll be, and this is men

38:16

of all ages. how to change a

38:19

tire, how to tie a tie, how

38:21

to tie a tie, how to ask

38:23

a girl a date, how to open

38:25

a door for a girl out here,

38:28

right? I like this. Name it. we're

38:30

going to make a how-to video. I

38:32

think there's an appetite that's growing for

38:34

this. Again, I point to Jordan Peterson,

38:37

who's talking about this, that masculinity is

38:39

not something the culture should run from,

38:41

it's what it should run to. And

38:44

you know, I often think of, oh,

38:46

all the characters, King David. What a

38:48

guy to go sit in the corner

38:50

of heaven with and talk about what

38:53

it means to be a man. Of

38:55

course he failed. He stumbled. That's the

38:57

first thing somebody thought of when somebody

39:00

thought of when I said King David.

39:02

with all of that he still had

39:04

a heart for the things of God.

39:06

Yeah, why? What qualified him for that?

39:09

You start thinking about courage, reliance upon

39:11

the Lord, a brutal self-examination, you know,

39:13

sometimes with the help of a friend,

39:16

Nathan. Yeah. But at least he was

39:18

always saying, I am that man. Yeah.

39:20

I'm the stumbler. I'm the center. And

39:22

again, it's a great attribute of manliness

39:25

to be able to own up to

39:27

what you did wrong. Right. And today,

39:29

it's so scarce. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

39:32

look at all the falling pastures we

39:34

have right now, affairs and everything else.

39:36

I've lived through two of those in

39:38

my own. Yeah. And, you know, somewhere

39:41

that, hopefully that good Christian godly masculinity

39:43

will resurface and it'll be a profound

39:45

revelation to the culture and hopefully a

39:47

revival. That's, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you

39:50

know, masculine manhood is not a one

39:52

size fits all scenario. We have different

39:54

interests and likes and unique abilities and

39:57

giftings. You know, um, Brant Hansen, we

39:59

were talking about earlier. Yeah, good friend

40:01

Brant. Yeah, he's been on the broadcast

40:03

many times. Yeah. So I was cracking

40:06

up because I, when I met him,

40:08

I was sharing vintage gentlemen and I

40:10

didn't realize there was a lot of

40:13

things that were resonating with him. Because

40:15

I had talked about like, what is

40:17

a great definition of courage. definitions that

40:19

I thought of to show up just

40:22

you're showing up whether you like it

40:24

or not you're you might be nervous

40:26

you might not be feel like you're

40:29

equipped whatever but to show up is

40:31

a good definition anyway and we talked

40:33

about a bunch of things and I

40:35

said to him that it's not a

40:38

one-size-fits-all I like I like riding my

40:40

my Indian motorcycle you know I used

40:42

to it till I wrecked mine yeah

40:44

that will change things broken ankle oh

40:47

it's terrible I'm sorry but that's okay

40:49

it recovered yeah good But I dive,

40:51

I like to hunt, I serve, I

40:54

do these things. But I look at

40:56

Brant's book and the funny thing is

40:58

he used to show up in his

41:00

subtitle, but he also used this phrase,

41:03

avid endorsement. Endoresman. Yeah. And so when

41:05

we were talking like that. He goes,

41:07

I don't like to shoot guns. He's

41:10

like, in fact, I have a. Yeah.

41:12

neurological issue and his eyes, if you

41:14

talk to him, they twitch. He's like,

41:16

my buddies went to take me out

41:19

to the skeet range and shoot and

41:21

I'm like, I'm not going to be

41:23

able to do this. And he goes,

41:26

sure enough, 50 out of 50, I

41:28

missed. He's like, I was prophetic in

41:30

that. I told him I would. But

41:32

we all laughed afterwards and had a

41:35

great time. And it was a great

41:37

time of hanging out in community and

41:39

fellowship. How would you describe it? Well.

41:42

I describe it like this, one of

41:44

my favorite all-time movies is Brave Heart.

41:46

Oh, me too. Okay, so what does

41:48

that say about us? Yeah, right. So

41:51

go right down the line, Brave Heart,

41:53

Patriot? Of course. Mel Gibson, he's hitting

41:55

it. He's crushing it. But you look

41:57

at Wallace, and you know, on one

42:00

hand, he fell in love. He had...

42:02

this gentle side that he loved this

42:04

woman, he marries her, he's thinking about

42:07

her, he's courting her, he spoke multiple

42:09

languages, he was educated, but

42:11

then when push came to shove

42:13

and they took his wife's life,

42:15

he became a master of war

42:17

and ability to take life.

42:19

Right. And so as Jordan Peterson,

42:22

you mentioned a couple of times,

42:24

he talks about the dangerous man,

42:27

you know. that we want dangerous men

42:29

around and not dangerous in the

42:31

sense of what some might say

42:33

it's dangerous in the sense that

42:35

I think of it like this

42:37

meekness the word meekness right some

42:39

people think that that means weakness

42:42

it sounds like weakness right but

42:44

the actual definition is power under

42:46

control right how many times do we

42:48

sit around and talk about being

42:50

me, oh man, like, I'll give you an

42:53

example, if we were in a group of

42:55

guys, a lot of times we'll hear like,

42:57

oh man, I crushed it, I got sales

42:59

today, oh man, I can't believe you'd, you

43:02

got all the fish when you were fishing,

43:04

all these accomplishments, so how many times do

43:06

we sit around and talk about it in

43:09

the sense of Galatians, like man, you were

43:11

so faithful today. The way you love that

43:13

person, oh, you were super patient,

43:15

but isn't that. the fruit how we're

43:17

supposed to be known to be that would

43:19

be good but it doesn't happen so why

43:22

can't we why can't we talk about empathy

43:24

and all of these things well in that

43:26

context too is so much is made of

43:28

how a feminine church is it's not a

43:31

place for guys we don't feel that comfortable

43:33

there yeah that's not good either I mean

43:35

that's the kind of place we would have

43:37

more fun in Yeah, man, you crushed it,

43:39

you blew it. I think one of the

43:42

things that I find interesting, because I golf

43:44

with a lot of buddies, I got this

43:46

group and this group, and what's so

43:48

funny is how we chide and tease each

43:50

other. I don't know that our wives would

43:53

survive in that environment. You know, we shank

43:55

a shot. Oh, man, you are pathetic. Yeah,

43:57

where were you aiming on that shot, right?

43:59

Seriously. But we get up and teed

44:02

off the next time with the

44:04

same group and we're still making

44:06

fun of each other. But there's

44:08

something that develops camaraderie with a

44:10

male expression where we like that.

44:12

I mean, I think if you're

44:14

healthy, you're in a good spot

44:16

with that where we can tease

44:18

each other and we can. That's

44:20

sitting around the campfire with King

44:22

David, I think. Yeah. That's more

44:24

of that attribute. I'm sure he

44:26

laid into guys in a fun

44:28

way. fruits of the spirit. I'm

44:30

not I'm not saying do one

44:32

more than the other. It's all

44:34

of it. It's not and or

44:36

it's all right. It's not a

44:38

menu that you order from. No,

44:40

no, but we should be encouraging

44:42

each other and that's what vintage

44:44

gentlemen is. We're building community. That's

44:46

so cool. I mean, I read

44:48

a statistic. I think it was

44:50

Ugov put out a statistic that

44:52

said a study show that 60%

44:54

of men have expressed this deep

44:56

sense of loneliness. Yeah. And that

44:58

only 38% of those guys would

45:01

even be willing to talk about

45:03

it. So, and you know, if

45:05

you have any kind of relation

45:07

to any boomers or any grandparents,

45:09

as men, we weren't raised feeling

45:11

like we can talk about these

45:13

things. Right. So let's break that

45:15

down. In regards to loneliness, you

45:17

have a powerful story about a

45:19

business guy that you had dinner

45:21

with. This guy had the world

45:23

by the tail, but... He said

45:25

some things to you that really

45:27

caught your attention. Yeah, so I

45:29

was being introduced to him as

45:31

the first time I met him

45:33

in person. With vintage gentlemen, we're

45:35

building community, right? So I'm thinking

45:37

about how to pull men into

45:39

this community and this was a

45:41

dinner opportunity to speak to this

45:43

gentleman. But I didn't expect what

45:45

happened throughout the conversation. I thought

45:47

we were going to talk about

45:49

his son who was a race

45:51

car driver. It was a really

45:53

cool story. Yeah. It's always fun

45:55

to hang around race car drivers.

45:58

Yeah, yeah it is really cool.

46:00

Formula One. But I. to give

46:02

him opportunity to share his story,

46:04

so I asked him some questions

46:06

about his life and his background

46:08

and his career. And multiple times

46:10

as he was describing his life,

46:12

I kept seeing tears welling up

46:14

in his eyes. And I thought

46:16

at first, like his analogies or

46:18

maybe I'm misreading this, but fourth

46:20

or fifth time, I thought, wow,

46:22

this guy's emotional. And he spoke

46:24

for what we thought was a

46:26

one-hour dinner turn into three hours.

46:28

And he just poured out, poured

46:30

out. And this guy knows famous

46:32

people, you know, he's super wealthy,

46:34

he's a Palm Beach, New York

46:36

guy, like endless funds. You would

46:38

think this guy has it all

46:40

together. And he's got great friends,

46:42

famous friends. At the end of

46:44

the conversation, three hours later, we

46:46

say our goodbyes, and he said,

46:48

Duane, I really appreciate you being

46:50

here tonight. I am. I'm lonely

46:52

and I don't have a lot

46:54

of friends and it just nailed

46:57

me. Yeah. I mean, how can

46:59

a guy like this? Like I

47:01

know a ton of people that

47:03

should feel that way who don't

47:05

have half the stuff this guy

47:07

has as far as monetary. Yeah.

47:09

But sounds like proverbs. Yeah, right.

47:11

Really does. Yeah. And so that's,

47:13

again, it showed me the need

47:15

for what we're doing. We're trying

47:17

to build community and offering just

47:19

a ear. You don't even have

47:21

to, that's what I'm saying. Like

47:23

as people stand up and say,

47:25

I'm gonna do this, put on

47:27

this persona of being a gentleman,

47:29

that just means you're willing. You

47:31

just lend your ear. That's good.

47:33

You know, Dwayne, as we, you

47:35

know, near the end of this

47:37

discussion, wrap up, I'm thinking a

47:39

couple things come to mind. One

47:41

is the lack of. I don't

47:43

know, communion within men. Men, we

47:45

always talk about ourselves as being

47:47

loners. We're the hunters, you know,

47:49

we go out, we hunt alone.

47:51

We're not the gatherers of the

47:54

wheat. Barley kind of thing. But

47:56

in that context, it's so desperately

47:58

needed this male companionship. What are

48:00

a couple things we could do

48:02

in churches or in our fellowship

48:04

with other men to exhibit that

48:06

to draw younger men into that,

48:08

the 20-somethings, because they want it?

48:10

We're all capable. It starts with

48:12

us. You know, it starts with

48:14

you as an individual being willing

48:16

and being vulnerable, which is a

48:18

bad word. If you're vulnerable and

48:20

you're authentic, you will attract guys

48:22

who desperately want that and need

48:24

it. Just don't know where to

48:26

find it and you can build

48:28

community. It's starting your church. Starting

48:30

your church. Talk to your pastor

48:32

that. I'd like to do this.

48:34

Many groups and even small group

48:36

Bible said, some of my closest

48:38

buddies are. are fairly new. I

48:40

didn't think I need another Bible

48:42

so, but I got involved in

48:44

this small group, just four guys.

48:46

Every Wednesday morning at seven, we're

48:48

reading the Bible together and talking

48:50

about life. You know, something that

48:53

really kind of haunts me. I

48:55

had Tucker Carlson at an event

48:57

and we were talking, I was

48:59

doing a Q&A with him. And

49:01

he was talking about what's going

49:03

on in public schools when it

49:05

comes to the egregious over exhausting

49:07

kind of LGBTQQ. particularly transgender stuff

49:09

at the time that you know

49:11

that's blazing hot and schools being

49:13

either willingly or forced to do

49:15

things that really do manipulate children

49:17

that are far too young to

49:19

be into this. He goes, I

49:21

see the moms, we're the dads

49:23

standing outside those schools saying we're

49:25

going to tear the school down

49:27

piece by piece unless you stop

49:29

manipulating our children. That is an

49:31

interesting idea. Where is that masculinity?

49:33

To show up in the public

49:35

square and say enough is enough,

49:37

we get pushed, we get pushed,

49:39

not just Christians, but people that

49:41

don't want that in your fourth,

49:43

fifth graders' faith. And most people

49:45

would agree with that. That five

49:47

to ten percent segment that may

49:49

agree with it is such a

49:52

minority and it's an unhealthy perspective.

49:54

Where are the men to stand

49:56

up and say, wait a minute,

49:58

we're not going to do that.

50:00

It's kind of like we've lost

50:02

our ability and our masculinity to

50:04

confront the culture. Yeah, well we

50:06

need more leaders. guys who are

50:08

well to step up. I think

50:10

it's happening. Yeah, no, it's happening.

50:12

I just read a statistic that

50:14

for the first time in decades,

50:16

I don't know how many decades,

50:18

there's more male attendance in church

50:20

than there is female for the

50:22

first time in decades. Huh, that's

50:24

interesting. But what that says to

50:26

me is guys like who are

50:28

leaders who have a good background

50:30

and diverse. skill sets need to

50:32

step up now and think about

50:34

mentoring and leading and shepherding this

50:36

new community of guys who are

50:38

probably in there that don't really

50:40

know what to do. Let's end

50:42

with this. You had a friend

50:44

that died of a heart attack.

50:46

It was pretty profound for you.

50:49

Yeah. Well, actually, he had a

50:51

friend that had a heart attack

50:53

and was... He did not die.

50:55

He was on his deathbed. He

50:57

had 30 days of live. They

50:59

had the balloon... pumping his heart

51:01

for him. Okay. And so he

51:03

was on a wait list for

51:05

for a transplant. If the transplant

51:07

didn't come, he would be it.

51:09

Right. That would be it. So

51:11

he had to say his goodbye

51:13

to his wife and kids. He

51:15

had to get his affairs in

51:17

order. So it's a it was

51:19

pretty, you know, dramatic and traumatic.

51:21

And what kind of focuses your

51:23

thinking? Yes, Spurgeon said often be

51:25

around the dead and dying. And

51:27

the reason is because it tends

51:29

to refocus usher. Absolutely, yeah, right.

51:31

But it's true. When you're facing

51:33

mortality, something changes or should. It

51:35

should change. And so that happened,

51:37

you know, watching my dear friend

51:39

say goodbye to his family just

51:41

crush me. And I thought, if

51:43

I have the grace to be

51:45

on my deathbed where I can

51:48

say goodbye to my... kids, am

51:50

I going to say, go watch

51:52

that, could I have a chocolate

51:54

commercial? So good. Now, I'm not

51:56

saying that's wrong, because there are

51:58

people who, that's what they do,

52:00

and they're great at it, and

52:02

they're filled out. It's not who

52:04

you are. It's not who God

52:06

created meat. Like, I wanted something

52:08

more, and I think about, like,

52:10

I want to impart something that

52:12

can last, and that's those, why

52:14

vintage gentlemen. The culmination of those

52:16

moments made me think, okay, what

52:18

can I build that would impart

52:20

to my kids what I believe

52:22

that's beyond just, you know, doing

52:24

good craftsmanship, but speaks to the

52:26

core values and character and virtues.

52:28

How do people connect with vintage

52:30

gentlemen? So we're gonna hard launch,

52:32

we're soft launch right now, so

52:34

there's a little bit of stuff

52:36

happening. It's a vent gent.com. We

52:38

have a collaboration with Palm Beach

52:40

Atlantic University. We're doing a live

52:42

podcast there once a month where

52:44

the bachelor program that fits the

52:47

guest, the kids will come, we'll

52:49

do a live Q&A with them,

52:51

we're doing a film contest with

52:53

the school. There's all kinds of

52:55

really fun things happening. We're doing

52:57

a master class. I talked about.

52:59

They'll use a logic. We put

53:01

together a master class on logic.

53:03

And we're doing these how-to videos.

53:05

Well, this is good. I'm going

53:07

to have to get my boys

53:09

in there. Oh, man. I'd love

53:11

for you to be a vintage

53:13

gentleman with me. Yeah, that'd be

53:15

fun. Thanks so much. This has

53:17

been really interesting. And thanks for

53:19

what you're doing for the next

53:21

generation of gentlemen. Thank you. Thank

53:23

you. Wow, I mean I enjoyed

53:25

my time in studio with Duane

53:27

Barnhart. I wasn't sure, you know,

53:29

what's vintage gentleman? That was so

53:31

much fun and a great conversation.

53:33

I hope it's helped you to

53:35

think differently about your career and

53:37

the influence you can have for

53:39

Christ right where you are. And

53:41

I also appreciated Duane's encouragement for

53:44

men in particular to think about

53:46

your identity and purpose and what

53:48

legacy you're going to leave behind.

53:50

Just the other day I was

53:52

talking to my son who's 22.

53:54

and Troy and I were chatting

53:56

on the patio about the one

53:58

life that we have and I

54:00

really encouraged him to think how

54:02

does he want to spend it

54:04

what does he want to give

54:06

his life toward and is that

54:08

helping people at one time he

54:10

wanted to be a history teacher

54:12

so we've been talking about that

54:14

but that's the kind of guidance

54:16

we need as older men to

54:18

provide not only our sons and

54:20

daughters but those younger men that

54:22

we can mentor around us as

54:24

a man of God or a

54:26

woman of God I hope you'll

54:28

be intentional about looking for opportunities

54:30

to tell others about God's amazing

54:32

love and his plan for each

54:35

one of us. We can impact

54:37

the culture for Christ one person

54:39

at a time. That's how it

54:41

works. and do it in a

54:43

non-threatening, caring way as we listen

54:45

for God's leading and take time

54:47

to hear about other people's lives

54:49

and get to know them. That's

54:52

the refocus message. If you want

54:54

to stand with me in spreading

54:56

God's love, grace, and truth, would

54:58

you support refocus if these conversations

55:00

on the podcast are strengthening your

55:02

Christian faith? Please make a gift

55:05

to reach others for Christ and

55:07

to help us. bring these interesting

55:09

guests onto the podcast. Dwayne mentioned

55:12

some people we've talked to recently,

55:14

Ozganis, Rosaria Butterfield, the former lesbian,

55:16

Dennis Quay, the actor, and we'll

55:19

link to all those interviews. We'll

55:21

also provide a link to vintage

55:23

gentlemen, so you can find out

55:25

more about that. And we'll have

55:28

helpful articles about serving God in

55:30

your career. You're gonna find all

55:32

of that in the episode notes.

55:34

Let's turn now to the inbox

55:36

segment. Here's a voicemail from Robert.

55:39

Hey Jim, this is Robert. So I've

55:41

got a question man. Well, I admit,

55:43

I'm not very intentional about sharing

55:45

my faith at work. I don't

55:47

want to overstep any boundaries while

55:50

I'm on the job. But I

55:52

do want to share my faith. What's

55:54

a non-invasive way that I can

55:56

begin a conversation about God

55:58

with my co-workers? Robert, I

56:00

so appreciate that. When I graduated college, I

56:02

eventually ended up working at International Paper. And

56:04

you know, it was a big... plant there

56:07

in the East Bay of San Francisco. And

56:09

I tried to live my faith. It was

56:11

uncomfortable to share with everybody. I didn't go

56:13

around from cubicle to cubicle or out in

56:15

the plant in the printing press area then

56:17

just talk about the Lord left right and

56:19

center. But I tried to live my life

56:21

in such a way that people saw something

56:23

different. What was interesting about that when I

56:26

announced I was leaving actually come to work

56:28

at focus on the family in 1989. I

56:30

remember how many people came up to me

56:32

and said. we knew you were different because

56:34

they learned I was going to go to

56:36

work at focus on the family. They said,

56:38

I thought you were a Christian. And so.

56:40

I think I achieved living it well and

56:43

probably what I needed to be more mindful

56:45

of as a 28, 29 year old was,

56:47

you know, taking more opportunity to say something

56:49

a little more forcefully. Probably one of the

56:51

most humorous things was I remember going out

56:53

to lunch, a business lunch with customers and

56:55

other people. And these are all older guys

56:57

and they're ordering genontonics and things at the

57:00

table at lunch. And of course I got

57:02

a nice tea just to be straight. And

57:04

I remember saying before we ate. lunch. You

57:06

guys mind if I pray for us? There's

57:08

like six or seven guys at this lunch

57:10

and they kind of put their cigarettes out

57:12

and looked at me and said, sure, go

57:14

ahead. And it was so funny, very uncomfortable,

57:17

but you know what? Everybody respected it. There

57:19

was not a single bad word that was

57:21

said about it and I think it opened

57:23

the door for some better conversations. So just

57:25

go with that moment. When you feel the

57:27

Lord say something to you like do this,

57:29

don't hold back. Be faithful to what that

57:31

voice which I believe is the Holy Spirit

57:33

is the Holy Spirit is telling you. And

57:36

Robert, thank you for that question. And because

57:38

I answered it here on the podcast, I'm

57:40

going to send you a copy of my

57:42

book, Refocus, Living a Life that reflects God's

57:44

heart. Now if you have a question for

57:46

me, send me a voicemail by clicking on

57:48

the tab in the show notes. I'd love

57:50

to hear from you. And thanks for listening

57:53

to... refocus with Jim Daley.

57:55

Please tell your friends

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Christ Christ the face

58:16

of adversity. He'll He'll help

58:18

you to have respectful

58:20

conversations with those who

58:22

hold a different a different

58:24

That's on Monday, on Monday

58:26

November 18th on the with Jim

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with Jim Daley. Put

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