0:02

The road to recovery. You might be cruising down it a friend or family

0:08

member lost on it, or the road is well still under construction. Relevant

0:17

Recovery Radio. He's about getting to that destination of normal health, mind or

0:23

strength. Now Relevant Recovery Radio here to give you the keys. Heather and

0:30

Donnie Moser. Hello, Welcome to Relevant Recovery Radio. I'm your host for

0:35

today, Donnie Moser. Heather is out. She evidently went on the road

0:41

chasing Dave Ramsey trying to show him how to do finance. So we'll see

0:44

what happens when she gets back. She has a financial guru. Welcome to

0:51

the show. Today. We are brought to you by the Matthews Hope Detox

0:54

and Recovery Program. Matthews Hope is a unique detox for substance abuse disorder where

1:00

they are located inside of the Saint Joseph's Hospital downtown Houston. They are a

1:07

ten to fourteen day d talks followed up with twenty four months of free aftercare

1:12

and recovery coaching. So, if you are a loved one or an unloved

1:19

one, because let's face it, at times I was an unloved one,

1:23

need information about Matthew's Hope. Please give them a call at eight four four

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and Hope. That is eight four four two six three four six seven three,

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or you can visit the website at dub dub dub dot mh d RP

1:42

dot org for more information. You can listen to us as well on KPRC

1:47

AM nine fifty Sundays at one pm Central. If you are picking us up,

1:52

maybe from a podcast, whatever, and you're wanting to hear us live

1:55

on Sundays, you can pick us up on the iHeartRadio app. KPRC nine

1:59

fifty has a channel where you can listen to is live and as I'm always

2:02

saying at the end of our show, they uploaded every Sunday and to our

2:07

podcast on iHeartRadio, which is the relevant recovery radio. Please do follow us

2:14

on Facebook or Instagram. Heather controls that I have no idea what you're saying,

2:20

what you're looking at, or what you're doing. I avoid social media

2:23

like the plague. I just don't have the ability, So please do reach

2:28

out. If you ever have questions, comments, you want us to cover a specific topic on the show, we would love to hear about it.

2:36

So today in studio, I have one of my closest friends in the world.

2:40

I would like to introduce you to Jason. Good afternoon. I mean,

2:46

I'm happy to be here. This is the invitation. This is Jason's

2:50

first time to do radio, right for sure. Yeah, so this is

2:53

I have to be honest, like, I actually have never listened to the show. Oh that's fantastic. Just want to be full disclosure. Yeah,

3:00

no, no, so one of my closest friends who's never listened to the

3:02

show. If that's not I love that. I honestly love that. Yeah.

3:07

Yeah, So today we're gonna talk a bit about your recovery journey kind

3:15

of what you're going through this and that. But first let's start off with

3:22

you and your girl. Got a new baby, yes, eight month old

3:25

urge nine months now, nine months. That just happened. Yeah, her

3:29

name's Hunter, beautiful baby girl. Yeah, blessing, you know, handful

3:32

bit of blessing. Yep, lives here. They live here in Houston.

3:36

And yeah, it's been a really cool. Our relationship with sort of the

3:40

journey we've been on together has been pretty fun and amazing. Definitely. Yeah.

3:45

And one of the things that we frequently talk about, which we'll probably

3:49

talk about here today. A little bit is that we compare notes at work.

3:53

How is our spiritual walk? And do we leave it at the door

3:55

when we walk into work? Quite often I do very challenging, very challenging.

4:01

So is this your first time sober? Negative? No, I've been.

4:06

I've been in and out since I was nineteen so and then and how

4:10

do you today? I am thirty nine, about to be forty Okay,

4:14

you know, so it's been a twenty year journey, correct, seventeen years

4:18

of the battle. So if I look back to when it really started to

4:24

what I'm doing now, and since I cleaned up in the last two years,

4:28

yeah, and you are a little over two years sober, correct,

4:31

Okay? All right? Which I want to hit on that today because there

4:34

is a stark difference in my mind between year one year two, you know

4:43

for sure. I mean, well, obviously the early sobriety is challenging.

4:46

It has its own challenges, especially when you're originally going through the steps.

4:50

So for me, it was the first you know, forty five days.

4:54

I mean, we went hard, and you know, getting to the immense

4:57

process and making some of those amends and and going through just trying to repair

5:02

the damage, you know. Yeah, that's what I remember the most.

5:06

The rest of it was, to be honest with I didn't I didn't think

5:11

I was gonna make it. Yeah, there was in my mind zero percent

5:15

chance that I was going to stay sober. Well, I mean, and after that long of a journey, let me ask you this. Did you

5:20

have a rough upbringing. No, I mean one of your parents killed the

5:25

other parents. Were you ever trafficked or anything crazy? No. I had

5:30

a beautiful childhood, you know, I mean, one of one of the earliest. And this is one thing I was gonna to point out when I'm

5:35

talking about like my story and what has happened. I just think we remember,

5:41

you know, having a beautiful childhod everything that's perfect. We were living

5:43

overseas, you know, my old man did very well, so we had

5:46

everything we needed, just happy family to in my eyes, right, and

5:50

then just completely sidelined with the divorce of my parents, right. So I

5:56

remember that distinctly. I remember feeling all these negative emotions end and just telling

6:00

myself, you know what, I'm not gonna deal. I'm not going to

6:02

worry about it. I'm just gonna do me and we're gonna live life.

6:05

Whatever makes me feel good. Was that like I'm gonna check out or I'm

6:09

just not gonna worry about it, a little bit of both, okay,

6:11

you know, And so that for me, it just when I look back,

6:15

it's like that's kind of the start of me just doing whatever I wanted to do to feel good. And yeah, I mean obviously it led to

6:23

like the drugs and alcohol. Well, and what I love to point out

6:27

and the reason I asked that, of course, I know you're upbringing we've

6:29

talked about it is there seems to be this idea that alcoholism or drug addiction

6:35

is brought on by some sort of a trauma. No, I mean not

6:40

for me. I mean it was years and years later that that things got

6:43

serious. Right, It's just you know, I know for me, it

6:46

was about you know, that mental obsession and the allergy. Like I recognized

6:49

that in my early drinking, Like the first time I ever even came across

6:54

alcohol, I had the ability to it was you know, we were on

6:58

a spring break. My mom went to the grocery store left half a glass

7:00

of wine. And it wasn't like I just tried it and stopped, is

7:04

I just kept chugging yeah, and so what we have found is that in

7:10

the fellowship there may be some people that had a trauma. We're not saying

7:14

it doesn't happen, but we're not able to look at alcoholism and drug addiction

7:20

as in, here's where it started, this is what happened to you.

7:24

It's just that about nine percent of the global population has this gene, has

7:28

this thing. There's nothing specific, nothing, So I love it. So

7:33

what we want to cover today's we're gonna cover a little bit of your early

7:38

tries at this and going into your sobriety and yeah, it's gonna be a

7:42

great story today. Don't go in. We'll be right back while we hunt

7:45

for Heather. Welcome back to Relevant Recovery Radio with your host Donnie Moser.

8:05

Heather is out today. I thought she was chasing Dave Ramsey down to teach

8:13

him about finances and financial responsibility. But it turns out she's chasing somebody down

8:18

for having to change her calendar. Evidently she had to make a challenge calendar

8:22

change. She doesn't like to do that, and she's changed. I don't

8:26

know, it's weird. It's always something going on with her, right Just

8:30

yeah, yeah, for those who don't know why I'm joking about that.

8:33

Heather. Once she puts something in her calendar, it's as if the finger

8:37

of God has come down and etched it into stone. Do not change her

8:43

schedule. I mean, I like that philosophy, all right, So let's

8:50

pick it back up. So you had a great upbringing, parents are good,

8:54

everything was good. You just you got this illness, right, yea,

9:00

tell me briefly about your first attempts at sobriety and what do you think

9:05

where do you think you you missed it or misstepped or what happened? What

9:09

do you think the deal was? For sure? So, I mean that

9:13

actually is a good story because I went into my first treatment center assuming that

9:16

I was just a drug addict. Right. So my cousin introduced me to

9:20

delatted morphine at like nineteen. I've heard that Delatted is delotted full. It's

9:26

amazing actually, but obviously there are some downfalls, right, physical addiction was

9:33

one of them. It's it's an opiate, right, yes, okay,

9:37

it's a synthetic heroine basically, okay, And so like that was my first

9:41

real experience with detals, you know, and it happened very quickly. For

9:46

me. So my uncle came intown it's all the state that I was in,

9:48

and took me to rehab immediately. But when I went there, the

9:52

idea was, Okay, I just got to get rid of the drugs,

9:54

like that's the problem. It's not my drinking that's the issue, right, This is just a physical addiction to a pill. I need to get that,

10:00

get through it and move on. Correct And the same my family had

10:03

the same idea, right, my dad the first time I saw him on

10:05

family weekend, he was like, you're still gonna be able to drink,

10:07

right, yeah? Sure? Yeah. And so we went and stayed at

10:11

a hotel and this family weekend in a break while I was technically in treatment.

10:16

And the reason I'm telling this story you'll get the point here in a

10:20

second. But I went to get some cigarettes and they told me the didn't have cigarettes at the hotel, so I had to go down to this bar.

10:24

So I went down to the bar, I got cigarettes, and immediately,

10:28

you know, this girl asked me if I want a shot and game

10:30

on? Right, and so, because because alcohol wasn't the problem exact,

10:33

yeah, yeah, And so I'd take a couple of shots and that's the

10:37

last thing tatnicly I remember until the next morning. I got woken up by

10:39

the cops. Apparently I just blacked out there, couldn't find my way back

10:43

to the hotel, and was just jiggling handles in this apartment complex to get

10:46

a place to sleep. So I one was open. I went in,

10:48

stripped down to my boxers, passed out on his couch. But it wasn't

10:52

your place, It's not my place, and so anyway, the cops waked

10:56

me on the next day. The reason I bring that story up is because

10:58

at the time I didn't think I was an alcoholic, right, So that

11:01

was the first real experience where I was like, this is potentially an issue,

11:05

right, so yeah, so it really woke me up to realize like,

11:09

hey, this might be an issue. But I still didn't accept it. You know, I was just like, oh, I hadn't drank in

11:13

a while, you know, I got blackout because my tolerance was low,

11:16

right, right, right. It's it's hard to have that realization. So

11:20

as human beings, we have this core idea that I can just beat this,

11:26

right, I can do it. Yeah, And you go into that

11:30

thinking, Okay, the problem is a physical addiction, of these opiates,

11:33

but alcohol good with Yeah, I'd just like to have a good time.

11:37

Yeah, you know, I drink like other people. You know, it's

11:41

social and it's acceptable and you can control it. You know. The pills

11:45

were too much, right, right, So it was a all holistic you

11:48

know, don't no dairy, no wheat, no sugar, you know,

11:50

because diet, diet'll fix it, really hippie, you know, rehab six

11:58

weeks. I went through it, and you know, stayed sober for maybe

12:01

well, obviously I didn't because I drank during while I wasn't try I had

12:05

to go back to treatment. Actually after that, we never bought it up. And I had like a big scratch on my face anyway. Do you

12:11

think it was because you just weren't convinced. I wasn't ready, man,

12:15

I got just I was nineteen or twenty at the time, probably twenty now,

12:20

it's probably twenty at the time, and uh, there was just no way I was ready for that. I mean, I get it. I

12:24

went to rehab for a year when I was fifteen, fifteen and a half.

12:28

Yeah, nineteen eighty seven. I wasn't an alcoholic yet. My parents

12:35

just didn't know what to do. With me. I mean I wasn't drinking

12:37

every day at that point, you know, binge drinking. It was you

12:41

know, access was an issue. Yeah. So so you get out,

12:45

So what aid you at this time of approximate twenty Yeah, so what what

12:48

what comes next for you? So I got out of that treatment center immediately

12:54

started you know, drinking and using again when I had the opportunity, within

12:58

like six months. So then I ended up going to another rehability state run

13:03

in Flagstaff, Arizona, thirty day twenty eight day program. Once again,

13:11

I was just doing it to kind of appease the people around me and get

13:15

the heat off you. Yeah, and immediately, like I met met a

13:18

girl when I was in treatment. One thing led to another. The night

13:22

I got out, we were rehab Romances are a real thing, consistent in

13:28

my story as well, you know, And the insanity is is that rehab

13:31

romances are real even if one of those people are both of them are married.

13:33

This is just what happens out there. So yes, so that happened.

13:39

And you know, I didn't really use much during that time, in

13:41

some cocaine here and there, but it was mainly just drinking. I never

13:46

liked cocaine, but it smelled really good. Well you could continue to drink

13:50

too. That that was my thing. Yeah, And you know, in

13:52

my mind because you know, I was you know, an IVY user early.

13:56

So as long as I wasn't you know, banging it, life was

14:00

good. You know. Yeah, it was under control. But so the

14:03

different ways we will find the control is so if I'm not putting it in

14:05

a needle, I'm just snorting it totally okay, yeah, completely different.

14:11

Yeah, So that was my mentality, and you know, yeah, I

14:15

mean that's what was the result of that run. Well, I ended up

14:18

moving to Breckon Ridge with my uncle to get into a fractional on timeshare.

14:22

So it's what we call it. Was it a true geographical or just an

14:26

opportunity, It's an opportunity. Like at the time, I still had no

14:30

desire to stop. Really okay, so you're just moving, Yeah, we're

14:33

just moving. And I remember we were in Breckon Ridge for about a month

14:37

or so, which, by the way, from what I hear, I don't know a lot about the area, Keystone, breck and Ridge, all

14:41

of the resorts. Not a place to try and control it. No,

14:48

No, I mean it was especially all the tourists coming in for the week.

14:52

You know, I worked in the resorting industry, so it was,

14:54

hey, where do we go party? Yeah, well I'm going here. You're essentially being paid to party, correct. Correct? And I was a

15:00

concierge, so I only worked like three to nine pm shifts and well it

15:05

doesn't it sounds rough. It was tough for sure, so uh, you

15:11

know, my lifestyle was chaos. And eventually, you know, we were

15:18

moving from the resort to a condo in brecon Ridge and my uncle went to

15:22

pick up a suitcase and I had stuffed it with bottles. So he's like,

15:26

you need to go to a meeting. You know. Now, is this the same uncle that saw you messed up around twenty correct? So he

15:33

had been sober for about fourteen years at the time. Oh wow, So

15:35

he recognizes, he knows you, he knows the potential, like he's seen

15:41

so he's trying to help. What was your response to that? I said,

15:45

you know, I'll go to a meeting, you know, And I actually went and you know, met a guy at my age and uh,

15:52

you know, started working a twelve step program and uh, you know,

15:56

obviously completely half assed, but you know, we did start, you know,

16:02

working through the steps and working you know, a program of some sort.

16:07

You know what, how committed were you, How convinced were you at

16:11

the time, and we went through it. We never really did inventory.

16:15

We just talked about all this stuff. So we were talking recovery. But

16:18

really what we were doing is we were chasing women. We would go out

16:21

to the bar stay sober, and it was actually semi easier. So you're

16:26

goind of going through the motions of going through the steps. Correct, And

16:30

I just happened to have a sober frame my age, and you know,

16:32

we hung out and party but not drinking, right, So we were staying

16:36

sober. But we were just taking advantage of you the situation you got away

16:41

from the alcohol and found another outlet. Correct, Okay, all right,

16:45

and you but you still weren't really convinced that you were, like, I

16:48

don't have an option left? Or were you getting there? No? I

16:51

still thought I had options, right. I thought it was a good idea that I statesber, because you know, I felt like I had more control

16:56

over my life and like direction and obviously, uh, you know, I

17:00

was clear minded, which was good. But at the time, you know,

17:06

temptation was all over. And what what age were you at this point?

17:08

What? Oh, so this happened fairly quick. Oh this was okay,

17:15

This wasn't like years later. This was okay. So you're talking two

17:21

rehabs in a couple of years. Okay, yeah, so it was quick.

17:23

And so how long did this up and down last? That lasted about

17:27

five years? About five years, five twenty six and then hit the fan

17:36

again? Oh wow? Okay, well listen, don't go anywhere. We're

17:40

gonna be right back and hear the rest of uh Jason's up and ups and

17:44

downs. We'll also see if we can get a where's Heather report on this

17:48

Relevant Recovery Radio. Be right back. Oh yeah, welcome back to Relevant

18:07

Recovery Radio. The beauty of Heather not being here is that I can come

18:11

into my intro anyway I want, and I get no dirty looks across the

18:15

console. This is so fantastic. I think Will is enjoying the show better

18:19

today, our producer Will. So, I just want to remind everybody that

18:25

we are here. We are sponsored by the Matthews Hope Foundation. If you

18:30

or a loved one are suffering from substance abuse, disorder, you think they

18:33

maybe you think they need some help. Anything you need when it comes to

18:37

substance abuse disorder, give them a call at eight four four and Hope or

18:42

that's eight four four two six three four six seven three. You can also

18:48

get them at dub dub dub dot mh d RP dot org. That's Matthews

18:55

Hope DTOX Recovery Program dot org and they'll they'll help you out. So now

19:03

we're looking at some huge struggle early in your life, Jason, Like,

19:07

there's by the time you're twenty in your first rehab twenty two and their second

19:11

rehab. I mean, you're you're displaying an inability to drink like a normal

19:17

person fairly early. Yeah, I mean I knew it was an issue. I just still thought that, you know, I could tone it down,

19:23

moderate, you know whatever, stay off the hard stuff, whatever excuses I

19:26

can come up with. And you know, during that time and Breckerds those

19:30

five years, things progressively got worse to the point where I was back doing

19:34

the same old things, and eventually it came to a head. So I

19:41

took off and went to a treatment center and asked meen it's Carbondale, Colorado,

19:45

basically twelve step program ninety days, all male, which is important at

19:49

the time. Now I'm imagining a rehab an Aspen. I was playing tennis,

19:55

horseback riding, massages first. I mean, yes, we got to

20:00

snowboard three days a week. I picked it for a particular reason. Yeah,

20:03

I mean, listen, if I gotta go to rehab and I gotta

20:07

stop drinking a drug in I'm gonna need some comfort, We're gonna do it right, So amazing place, right it was. I don't know if I

20:15

can name names on here? Is that sure? You just Jaywalker Lodge,

20:18

Phenomenal. They don't sponsor us, so you can say what you want.

20:22

Phenomenal Treatment Center and they focus on steps on one, two, and three

20:26

the whole nine days you're there, And I got a lot out of it. Ended up, you know, building a great community there and call it

20:33

in Carbondale with a bunch of solid guys that we're doing the same thing.

20:37

You know, we got to do a lot of rock climb and mountain biking,

20:41

you know, snowboarding, all kinds of stuff. Did that start to

20:45

introduce you to the importance of fellowship and having that friendship with like minded people

20:49

that was the beginning of me understanding of the community aspects of recovery. And

20:55

to be honest, like, I stayed sober for two and a half years, and it was solely based on the commune. Right. I had no

21:00

real recovery. You know, I was sober and I had worked the stabs

21:04

you or what we call white knuckling it. Correct, Like, once I

21:07

got through the stabs, I never did Step twelve. Right, So I

21:11

ended up just going and doing my thing. You know. Yes, guys

21:14

asked me to just smaunch to them, but we went mountain biking, rock

21:17

climbing and talking to recovery. Yeah, there was no opening a book.

21:19

You're you're sort of like a pseudotherapist, correct. They come to you the

21:23

problems, You talk to him about it and give us some advice. And

21:26

my my favorite thing to tell sponsors at the time was due as I say,

21:30

not as I do, because I was doing a lot of things you should not be doing. Oh I love that, and uh yeah, so

21:36

you know, two and a half years and you know, quickly, my

21:40

my uncle got diagnosed with cancer. Wow, you know, so uh we

21:45

actually brought him here to Houston and MDI Anderson to get treated and within three

21:48

months it was game over. Oh wow, and I had to see you

21:52

know, I watched the entire thing, you know, sober, sober,

21:55

so you got to be there for it. Yes, you know, I'm grateful for that. And the reason I bring that up is it kind of

22:02

destroyed my relationship with like religion, and because if there was a God,

22:07

how could he take him correct? Like he was one of the best guys I ever met, and watching him I suffering was rough. That has to

22:14

be so, you know, I went back to work in breckon Riis after

22:17

that, and within a short period of time back to the same whole thing.

22:22

Because what we find in the fellowship in the twelve step world is that

22:26

when things are good, you know, if I'm just hanging out, if

22:32

I'm just going to meetings or I'm just fellowshipping, I'm not really using the

22:37

tools. I'm not really doing the spiritual walk per se. Right, when

22:42

we hit these certain trials and low spots of life, we have no tools

22:47

to get through it sober. Yeah, And that's basically what happened. Right.

22:52

So I went back to working Breck and Rags. I didn't stay connected with the guys I got sober with. I wasn't going to meetings. I

22:56

had zero recovery of my life. He was just chasing money, the ego,

23:00

the pride of stuff, you know, the things that I thought at

23:03

the time were important, and you know, just very superficial, you know,

23:11

shallow and And what I would say to somebody in the twelve step world

23:15

if they were to tell me that, like, it sounds like you had

23:18

no choice, right, zero defense, yeah, zero defense against the first

23:23

drink, zero defense against the first rail of cocaine, whatever it is.

23:26

And then once I put that in my body, I have little no control

23:30

over the amount I'm going to take because I have an allergy to that stuff.

23:33

And the allergy is I want more. And the first time was you

23:37

know percent back. So how long and what does it look like before you

23:41

got sober this time? This time? Probably that was i'd say eight years.

23:49

Maybe did you go on an eight year run or was there any clean

23:52

points in there? There were some clean points, right, So I tried

23:57

cleaning myself up at one point, and you know, went back to Carbondale

24:03

and lived with you know, a friend of mine that I got sober with,

24:07

you know, stayed for a year or so, and then I was

24:11

chasing money and chasing a job. I had to get a job, right,

24:15

So I took a job in Arizona and took off yea, the same

24:19

field, and you know, I went back to the same old thing.

24:23

You know, once again. I showed up. I went to a few

24:26

meetings here and there, but you know, eventually it was just you know,

24:29

work and women and you know stuff. That was what drove I always

24:34

tell guys that I sponsored, when we sit down for the first time,

24:37

I always tell them, you're gonna go one of two directions. You're gonna

24:41

go right and you're going to chase fixing your finance, romance relationships. Or

24:48

you're gonna go left and you're gonna go all in on the twelve steps.

24:52

You were going to go all in on the program of recovery. And if

24:55

you go right, you will fail right or you'll get so miserable it really

25:00

drinking is a better idea. It just depends on how long. Oh it

25:03

can be a while, right, or you're gonna go left. You're gonna

25:07

go toward the twelve step fellowship, toward the program, work every bit of

25:11

it. And the reality is is that I get a relationship with God out

25:14

of that, and God takes care of everything on the right. Yeah,

25:17

and there are a lot of benefits, you know, in my opinion, where it's just you know, repairing some of the wreckage and changing some of

25:22

your character defects and paying attention to the ego of the pride, you know,

25:26

all those things that keep us, you know, drunk and hot.

25:30

I remember meeting you when you first got sober this time, and there was

25:36

some certain like hardline knows in your world, and that was pretty much anything

25:41

that has taken you out in the past you didn't want anything to do with.

25:45

Yeah, well, your first days of recording, you weren't dating,

25:48

talking to women, being around women. You weren't. I mean, you

25:51

were serious. And tell me about this. So tell me about You've been

25:53

through a rocky road for nineteen years, almost twenty years. What does it

25:59

look like this time? Why this time? Why was so many attempts before?

26:03

What stuck? So it kind of starts with me coming back into the

26:07

rooms and that whole story, you know, because at that point I was

26:11

completely lost. I knew that I was going to die or go to prison,

26:14

you know, and I wanted to I kind of wanted both of them. I was happy with both of them, like a relief at that point,

26:18

right, you know in short story is you know I had the run

26:22

in with the police, that I should have been doing life in prison and

26:26

somehow miraculously didn't. So looking back at like a lot of these scenarios in

26:33

my life where for me it was the end of the road, like I

26:37

should have died, I should have gone in prison, and I didn't. And there's a number of those situations. So like you start to realize that

26:42

you're here for a better for a bigger purpose, you have to write at

26:45

least that's the way I looked at it, because I was so low.

26:48

Like to me, there was zero out. I was done well. And

26:52

the other thing I want to highlight is that your twenty year run, right,

26:55

you're twenty year in and out, You're twenty year up and down, your twenty year in and out of addiction, in and out of alcoholism.

27:00

You led a successful life outside looking in, Yes, you weren't under a

27:06

bridge, you weren't homeless, you weren't I mean, you had you owned

27:08

a company one time. You had all of these things going on, right,

27:11

and so you know what I mean like, yeah, So I remember

27:18

a conversation with my my old man one day when things got really bad and

27:21

I called him up and I was having like a panic attack, all anxiety,

27:25

and I'm telling him what's going on. He's like, why you know?

27:29

You have the business, you have, the girl, you have, the house, you have all. He's listing all these superficial, you know

27:33

things, and I'm just like, I don't know, I don't know what

27:37

to tell you, right, none of it's working. Yeah, And I

27:41

think what we have found in the fellowship and found on our journey is that

27:45

you have real validation and you have counterfeit. And what I've found is that

27:48

there is absolutely nothing in my external world that can give me valid real validation.

27:56

It's all counterfeit. The only thing I can get is from that power

28:00

greater than myself, which we call God. Yeah. All right, so

28:06

you got sober. So when we get back, I want to talk about quickly your journey to sobriety, but I want to get into kind of what's

28:14

happened to you in the last two years and where you're at, and what

28:17

are the high points the low points, you know, what that looks like,

28:22

sounds good. What did you go to a rehab this time or did

28:25

you go? I did? You did? And it this time? You

28:27

were ready though it wasn't the treatments it, but yes, I was ready.

28:32

You know, I love it. Yeah, it's funny. Heather has

28:34

the same kind of story. I think she went to five rehabs before she

28:37

finally got sober. And when you ask or like, what's what what was

28:41

different? Most people say, I don't know. I really don't know,

28:45

but something was and I was ready and I accepted it, beating and broken.

28:49

Yep, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with Relevant Recovery Radio.

29:04

Oh yeah, yeah, we're back. Yeah, welcome back to Relevant

29:07

Recovery Radio. Donnie Moser in studio, Heather is out heathering around town.

29:15

I don't really know what you know. Here's the thing I love to make

29:17

fun of her and and in studio with me is Jason, one of my closest friends in the Twelve Step Fellowship and just in life. I Jason.

29:25

Hello. I give Heather a hard time, but she's one of the most

29:33

solid people I know, so I should probably I won't say this while she's

29:37

in studio. Yeah, yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't.

29:40

I don't want her to get a big head. But she is honestly one of the most solid people I know. She removed seventy seven thousand dollars on

29:48

my credit that you're using my money, but still she managed it and had

29:51

it done in two years. She's trying to help me with my Yeah.

29:55

Yeah, I find that women are really really solid in in a lot of

29:59

areas that they don't get credit for, just budgeting in general budgeting, or

30:03

being a solid foundation of faith, a rock to lene on, you know.

30:07

But anyways, and actually I make a lot of fun of her,

30:11

But I think she's doing a fifth step right now. No, No,

30:15

let's look at the fact we record on Friday one p other beach. She's

30:19

shirking her work responsibilities to do twelve step work. You know what, you

30:23

know what, I take it back everything I said. It's terrible. She's

30:26

trying to stay recovering. Oh you know, no, but she's Yeah,

30:30

so that's why she's out today. Actually, so we had somebody come up

30:33

to us recently and say, was was the FBI really investigating Heather over something

30:37

I had made a joke about. I should probably be careful with that nice.

30:42

Yeah, all right, So what does your getting sober look like?

30:51

So, I mean, obviously this time around it was very different, right

30:53

because I was at the point where to me, there was no out,

30:56

Like I didn't think I was gonna survive. I mean I told my members

31:00

to walk away, you know. I was like, this is going to

31:03

end badly. You were done for sure. And I just had zero faith

31:06

that I was gonna say sober, you know. And while I was in

31:10

treatment, I started reading obviously The Big Book and Refuge Recovery, and a

31:15

lot of philosophy and just random things like seeking yes and really putting some effort

31:21

into it. And and I was so miserable at the time. My thinking

31:25

my philosophy was what's the worst that could happen? You know, I get

31:29

sober, life gets better? Terrible, right, So you know, I

31:33

read a couple of books, and one in particular, I was talking about

31:36

you know, having you know, your your recovery twelve step program, you

31:41

know, some therapy and you know, uh in his philosophy was Buddhist principles,

31:48

right, but so a spiritual, spiritual suspect and that just made a

31:52

lot of sense to me. So it's not just you know the recovery program.

31:56

It's also therapy and some type of spirituality. Right, Well, me

32:00

and our literature says that the twelve step fellowship you and I belonged to is

32:04

not for everything. There's a certain thing that it helps, but there's certain

32:07

times and we need outside help. Yeah, And it was just that moment

32:09

that clicked for me, right, even though that's in a lot of different

32:13

books, it just happened to be in that moment. I was receptive to it, just like your guys were open. Your ears were open, just

32:19

like I knew allergy and obsession for ten years, but it never really made

32:22

sense to me because I didn't get it right. So regardless, I mean,

32:27

at that point, I was just ready to do anything. And just

32:30

like you and I talked about earlier, it's like you met me and I

32:34

was staying away from women, you know, I had to stay certain number

32:37

of meetings. I wanted to work the program quickly and thoroughly, and I

32:42

was one hundred percent yep, just like with most things in my life,

32:45

Like if I'm committed and something I want to do, it's game on.

32:47

Right, We're going one hundred miles an hour in one direction. And that's

32:52

something i'd try and pay attention to you as well, because I do want

32:54

to have some balance. But what you did early on was one hundred percent

32:59

game on in direction at that board, this twelve step fellowship. At that

33:02

time, that was all I focused on. Yeah, and you know during

33:07

that year. I mean, Jesus, what happened during that year? I

33:10

mean your first year sober. It's you know, it's funny. I'm so,

33:14

I'm ten years in and I heard somebody say this to me, not

33:17

to me. I think they were speaking a few years ago, and I

33:22

was thinking in my head, like, I don't that doesn't compute. But

33:24

what he said was, you know, when I was five years sober,

33:27

all I wanted to be was ten years sober. And now I'm ten years

33:30

sober, and all I want is that first year again. I could see

33:34

that. I mean, your first year if you're all in, yeah,

33:37

it means your fellowship and you're like, you have a whole new host of

33:39

friends. It's fun. Well, and also I didn't have a job,

33:43

you know, so that's good time. So I could do really whatever I

33:46

wanted it. And I focused on, you know, going to meetings,

33:50

staying connected. I did you know, a bunch of conventions and and try

33:52

to get connected there and get service commitments, and just always had something going

33:58

on, sponsoring everything, you know, with dinner, coffee after a meeting.

34:01

I was sponsoring people. Yeah, So my schedule was just packed with

34:06

all kind of stuff and I always had something to do. You know.

34:12

Within a few months, I think it was six months in is when I

34:15

had to finally get a job, or it really the job came to me because I was at the time, I was like, I don't need to

34:20

work. I don't need to be in sales. I don't need to you

34:22

know, have that that drama and the ego and the pride that comes with

34:27

you know, those types of jobs. Worried about the stress. Yeah,

34:29

and I wanted to focus on my recovery, and you know, this opportunity

34:34

to presented itself, like so many things in my life that are just like

34:37

the little miracles that you know, smalling away, right, And it felt

34:40

right like I knew right off the bat that it was the right decision to

34:45

make. And I was starting to make a change. And I still talk to other people, right, So everything I was doing at that time,

34:50

I was running it by multiple people to get other you know, insight,

34:52

and so you were not only open to the complete We have this triangle in

34:58

our programs, circle triangle and around the trying it says recovery, unity,

35:00

and service. You were all in on that. You were open to all

35:05

of it, but you were also open to taking input from others who had

35:08

experience. I had to because I knew like my thought process was way off.

35:14

So, you know, I spent that first year just trying to really

35:19

connect with you know, the spiritual side of the program. You know,

35:22

I had been through the staffs, I'm working with others, so I wanted

35:24

to stay connected with the guys that I was trying to work with and just

35:31

trying to maximize and really find like a foundation, right, So I wanted

35:36

to put all the actions and work I put into like a standards, not

35:43

like a schedule, but just make sure I was doing all those things and

35:45

had like a foundation from my recovery. Something we noticed right away. So

35:50

Heather and I frequently have pool parties. We have gatherings at the house,

35:53

pot luck. Everybody come on. It's usually from two or three in the

35:58

afternoon until two in the morning. People come hang out everybody's so well.

36:01

Most of the time people are sober. We always have that one person that

36:05

thinks nobody's gonna know they're getting messed up. We are professionals, for sure.

36:09

You and Heather could spot an opiate from a mile away if somebody's doing

36:13

it, and I could spot drunk from a mile away. And it's like,

36:15

you know, it's funny. But anyways, you were there every time, Yeah, like we could set our watch bat like you have consistently as

36:22

unless something's going on. You were always at these gatherings of what we call

36:27

the family. Yeah, And it was I needed that, you know,

36:30

I needed to really connect with the people that I was getting sober with and

36:35

find so find the people that had more time than me, just to kind

36:39

of get some insight and understand, you know, the challenges that we face,

36:44

you know, and I'm trying to think of the things over the years. I mean, there were a couple of amends that I had to make

36:49

that I really didn't want to. You know, I still have some family

36:52

issues that we're working out on, you know, and just dealing with those

36:57

things as well as trying to start my life over, and that's kind of

37:00

the challenge is finding that balance between you know, your recovery and like your

37:06

personal life and your work. And I don't know that that balance has ever

37:12

found. It's an illusion, right, but it's still something that you have

37:15

to pay attention. You got to calibrate. Yeah, so the first year alcohol has gone, I got this whole new family, this whole new group,

37:21

this everything, My life is great. What about year two? So

37:24

year two, oh man, year two for me was having a child.

37:30

Yeah, and you know, finding a happy, healthy relationship that was you

37:37

know, not not not negative. Right, So most of my relationships the

37:45

past had all sorts of complications and problems and red flags and just weren't healthy

37:52

relationships. Definitely not your girl today, No, no, And that's you

37:57

know, one of the many blessings you know, I've last over the last

38:00

couple of years, is just finding that situation. God sends us a helper because we need it. You get what you need in the moment, right,

38:05

And of course I'm I am praying and meditating and asking for help.

38:08

And it seems like every time I get into a situation where like that stress

38:15

or that pressure is on and I'm asking for help, I get what I

38:17

need. Regardless of whether it's exactly what I'm thinking or what I wanted it.

38:21

It's just if I'm looking back, those things were given to me eventually,

38:24

right, you know. And I think in the year two you start

38:27

running into the internal stuff. Right. The beginning year is hey, great,

38:30

alcohol is gone. But then you start running into the internal Yeah,

38:35

and you're still I guess that first year you're kind of on that pink cloud

38:37

and they like, everything's good. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful.

38:40

I'm gonna have to bring you back again. Don't forget Matthew's hope eight four

38:45

four two six three four six seven three. Those who stand for nothing will

38:49

fall for anything. Hashtag god though,