0:00

Hey, Renne Gates listeners, this is Craig

0:02

Robinson. You may know my sister,

0:04

one of my favorite people, Michelle

0:06

Obama. I'm dropping into your feeds

0:08

with something special. It's a new

0:11

show from our friends at Higher

0:13

Ground, hosted by me and my

0:15

sister, V. Michelle Obama. On

0:17

IMO, Michelle and I bring

0:19

our unique experiences and candid

0:22

perspectives to a range of

0:24

personal dilemmas, from the everyday

0:26

to the existential. Each week we're

0:28

joined by a guest to

0:31

tackle audience questions with practical

0:33

advice, relatable anecdotes, and plenty

0:35

of laughs. Questions range

0:37

from dating and relationships to

0:40

parenting and financial planning.

0:42

In this episode, my sister and

0:44

I share stories about being there

0:46

for each other throughout our lives,

0:48

from first crushes and challenging college

0:50

years, to landing at the White

0:52

House, and later losing our mom.

0:54

For six decades, we've been each

0:56

other's most trusted council, and now

0:58

we want to be that council

1:01

for you. Okay, here comes the

1:03

preview, and do not miss our

1:05

friend Bruce Springsteen, coming up later

1:07

this season, talking all about making

1:10

amends with your parents. You can

1:12

find that and more episodes of

1:14

IMO wherever you get podcasts. A

1:16

lot of people have questions. They

1:19

want to know, especially when they

1:21

see somebody. of note with a

1:23

platform who, you know, by every

1:25

measure, looks successful. The first

1:28

question is how. I think

1:30

this podcast, first and

1:32

foremost, gives us an

1:35

opportunity to hear from folks. You

1:37

know, we're going to be

1:39

taking questions from listeners who

1:41

are going through some things

1:44

and just need a little

1:46

advice. They want to hear from...

1:48

People in conversations and folks are

1:50

looking for a place where they can

1:53

just they they can hear stories You

1:55

know, I mean what I realize is

1:57

like by sharing some of these

1:59

stories It always taps into

2:01

something from somebody else. People,

2:04

you know, they want to

2:06

hear some honest kind of

2:08

conversation about how people are

2:11

working it through. And we

2:13

don't have all the answers, you

2:15

know. I mean, this show isn't

2:17

about us being experts at anything

2:20

other than the lives that we've

2:22

lived. But what we do have

2:24

are a lot of opinions. Hence

2:26

the name. In my

2:29

opinion, IMO. This episode

2:31

is brought to you

2:33

by Rivian and Pinesall.

2:36

Well, I'm Craig Robinson

2:38

and you all know

2:41

my sister, Michelle Obama,

2:43

and we're doing this

2:46

podcast together and it's

2:49

really exciting to be

2:51

working with you on

2:54

this project. You know, some

2:56

people react like, you're doing a

2:58

podcast with your brother. Why would

3:00

you do that? I know, really.

3:03

But our dynamic is so, in

3:05

my view, unique. I think there

3:07

are plenty of siblings who have

3:10

great relationships, but you know, I

3:12

think when we think back to

3:14

where that came from, we think

3:16

about, I think about just the

3:19

physical. closeness that we had. I

3:21

mean, we weren't wealthy. And dad

3:23

was working class. We lived in

3:25

the same apartment our whole lives

3:28

and had to grow into that.

3:30

And as a result, you and me,

3:32

we were physically close

3:34

growing up. Remember when

3:36

we used to share a bedroom?

3:39

Of course, that was our life

3:41

growing up. We shared the same

3:43

room until you went to high

3:45

school, right? That's right. Well,

3:47

let's first just call how

3:49

small the apartment we lived

3:51

in. You know, it seemed

3:53

like it was huge, but

3:55

it was essentially two bedrooms,

3:57

right? No, it was one bedroom.

3:59

Well that little offshoot bedroom that

4:01

mom and dad stayed in. You

4:04

would consider that a bedroom. But that

4:06

was the only bedroom. The room we

4:08

were in was actually the living room

4:10

and the living room that we, what

4:12

we called the living room, was actually

4:14

the dining room. Huh, okay. All right, so

4:16

that's how small it was. We had to

4:18

turn it into something else. But the

4:20

biggest room was always ours. Yes. And

4:23

we were little little, like baby little,

4:25

like baby little. like five and three.

4:27

The twin beds were head to

4:30

head with like an end table

4:32

in between. And we had matching

4:34

spreads? That mom made. That mom

4:36

made. They were these big bold

4:39

stripes and the twin beds were

4:41

up against the wall and she

4:43

had the concept of creating like

4:46

these little patting boards. Yes.

4:48

You know she was so crafty

4:50

so she created these phone pads

4:52

that she hung along the side

4:55

to make them decorative but to

4:57

also provide us with a little

4:59

cushion right against the wall which

5:01

was we thought was so cool

5:03

I remember you had a bed

5:05

guard because you were so little

5:07

yeah you still probably should have

5:10

been in a crib maybe so

5:12

but yeah I do remember you guys

5:14

would tell me I'd fall out of

5:16

the bed start crying get put

5:18

back in the bed and I wouldn't

5:20

remember anything about it. You wouldn't

5:23

remember any of it and everybody

5:25

else would be wide awake and

5:27

you'd be snoring. I didn't snore.

5:29

Now you make it stuff. But

5:32

then from there, from there, we went

5:34

to, and I'm trying to remember

5:36

what age when our grandfather

5:38

Southside built us this tea.

5:40

Partition wall so then we

5:42

had our own bedrooms in that

5:45

same room Yes, so it went

5:47

from a one room one big

5:49

room into three small rooms Yeah,

5:51

your bedroom was on the right

5:53

mine was on the left and

5:56

then we had a common area

5:58

in the front where mom once

6:00

again, crafty, built us desks on

6:02

each side where we could do

6:05

our homework. Yeah, yeah. I mean,

6:07

that was some poverty crafting, right?

6:09

That's like Martha Stewart on a

6:12

budget. But that wall was just,

6:14

we were still sleeping head to

6:16

head, but just on the other

6:19

side of a wall. And it

6:21

was special to me because that's,

6:23

I feel like that's where. our

6:25

real relationship began because it's like

6:28

we would talk for hours you

6:30

know we go to bed we're

6:32

supposed to be asleep and we'd

6:35

stay up all night just talking

6:37

through that little partition. We thought

6:39

it was all night but because

6:42

we had to go to bed

6:44

at 730 it was probably like

6:46

830 that we but we talked

6:49

till about 10 o'clock and mom

6:51

would finally come in there. If

6:53

you all don't go to bed,

6:55

go to sleep. But it was

6:58

really sweet because I remember being

7:00

able to talk to you even

7:02

at that young age about anything,

7:05

what happened during the day, you

7:07

know, the little drama on the

7:09

outside world, you know, just, and

7:12

just laughing all night long. About

7:14

nothing, making up silly games, you

7:16

know, it started that young. Well,

7:19

what's really ironic is that we

7:21

were talking about how... small our

7:23

place was. Growing up our house.

7:25

Yeah. And then look where we're

7:28

doing this taping in this big,

7:30

beautiful air B&B. Got a little

7:32

more room here. No, who would

7:35

have thought we'd be able to

7:37

be in a snazzy place like

7:39

this? You know, art, but this

7:42

podcast is going to be about.

7:44

you and you and I trying

7:46

to let people in on some

7:49

of the lessons that we learned

7:51

as kids and growing up and

7:53

you know from mom and dad

7:55

but also from different teachers and

7:58

coaches and things we learned along

8:00

the way and let me ask

8:02

you this what is one of

8:05

the lessons that you learned from

8:07

mom and dad that really sticks

8:09

out to you? Well when I

8:12

think about what we're talking about

8:14

now our relationship as brother and

8:16

sister why you know we're we're

8:19

so excited about doing this podcast

8:21

not because we we love to

8:23

talk and we love we got

8:26

lots of opinions but you know,

8:28

especially since mom passed, you know,

8:30

this is a joint project that

8:32

you and me have. And I

8:35

think it's the first time we've

8:37

actually worked together and helping people

8:39

to understand where does that foundation

8:42

come from where you and I

8:44

feel so comfortable with each other

8:46

and we have our whole lives

8:49

where we can not only work

8:51

together. but share what has helped

8:53

to make us close. I think

8:56

about not just our bedroom space

8:58

in that little bitty first department

9:00

on Euclid Avenue, but I think

9:02

about the kitchen table, because the

9:05

kitchen was the other gathering place.

9:07

And in our house, you know,

9:09

we as young people with our

9:12

parents, what they did for us

9:14

was they invited us to sit

9:16

with them at the table and

9:19

talk. And I think very early

9:21

on, because our parents had the

9:23

wisdom to understand how wise kids

9:26

could be and how important their

9:28

voices were and how much fun

9:30

it was to not just have

9:32

kids just seen and not heard.

9:35

And our household, our parents wanted

9:37

to not just see us, but

9:39

they wanted to hear us. They

9:42

wanted to hear our ideas. They

9:44

wanted to hear our opinions. Our

9:46

parents offered us both the first

9:49

table where we gained confidence in

9:51

our voices, where we felt like...

9:53

who we were, what we thought,

9:56

how we felt was important, and

9:58

not because it was important to

10:00

the rest of the world, but

10:02

it was important to them. You

10:05

know, and I think that's a

10:07

piece of wisdom in terms of

10:09

parenting that I try to share,

10:12

I try to implement in my

10:14

own life, but our parents wanted

10:16

to hear from us. They loved

10:19

our thoughts and ideas and they

10:21

encouraged us to say what was

10:23

on our mind, do it respectfully

10:26

for sure. But that, you know,

10:28

a lot of kids don't grow

10:30

up like that. They sure don't.

10:33

And, you know, I'm always asked

10:35

how mom and dad came to

10:37

be the type of parents. that

10:39

they were that would be the

10:42

type to let their kids come

10:44

into the kitchen table and share

10:46

in the conversation rather than being

10:49

lectured to. And I always remember

10:51

mom always when we would always

10:53

ask mom, how do you know

10:56

something? She was like, well, I

10:58

don't know everything. I don't know

11:00

what to tell you. Yeah, she

11:03

was never afraid to tell us

11:05

when she wasn't sure. She wasn't

11:07

sure. And she said, let me.

11:09

Think about it and get back

11:12

to you and that was one

11:14

of the most powerful things as

11:16

a parent like you don't you're

11:19

not supposed to know everything you

11:21

don't have to know everything and

11:23

it's better to say you don't

11:26

know than to make up something

11:28

or lie or get yourself caught

11:30

in a position where Your kids

11:33

come back to you and say

11:35

you gave me bad advice and

11:37

a lot of parents are you

11:39

a lot of parents think that

11:42

a part of being The parent

11:44

is to be the one with

11:46

all the knowledge with all the

11:49

answers and because our our parents

11:51

didn't do that It also gave

11:53

us permission and taught us that

11:56

Like in life you are in

11:58

a learning process all the time

12:00

all the time. And it's okay

12:03

to be wrong. And it's okay

12:05

to stumble. Mom and dad were

12:07

also very good talking to us

12:09

not just about their successes, but

12:12

about their failures. What they did

12:14

wrong, what they got wrong in

12:16

life. And I see that time

12:19

and time again, parents feel like

12:21

they need a shield of all

12:23

knowingness. in order for their kids

12:26

to respect them or in order

12:28

to keep them safe. It's like,

12:30

let me not share with you

12:33

how I messed up a few

12:35

times. And I never felt the

12:37

pressure of their judgment or their

12:40

expectation in our lives. And it's

12:42

funny you say that because it

12:44

this reminds me of my favorite

12:46

lesson from them. When you talk

12:49

about there's never any judgment. The

12:51

only time mom and dad would

12:53

really be upset with us is

12:56

if we said well So-and-so said

12:58

I should be doing this and

13:00

how about that word so-and-so? Yeah,

13:03

that's a big problem. Who are

13:05

these so-and-so? Yeah, it's just so-and-so

13:07

is always a little trifling. That's

13:10

all I remember about so-and-so. So-and-so

13:12

is trouble. If you hung out

13:14

with so-and-so. You were going to

13:16

get in trouble. That's the only

13:19

way you were going to ruin

13:21

your life is following and behind

13:23

so and so. And mom would

13:26

be so, we meet so and

13:28

so. Well, but my point is,

13:30

if you ever came in the

13:33

house and said one of your

13:35

friends, somebody outside of the family

13:37

said, you should do something or

13:40

you should be something or how

13:42

about let's try this and you

13:44

followed in behind them. And that

13:46

was your rationale. That is when

13:49

you caught it. Yeah, yeah. And

13:51

not thinking for yourself. Not thinking

13:53

for yourself and having enough confidence

13:56

in your decision-making process to make

13:58

decisions. for yourself and not because

14:00

somebody wanted you to. Well, you

14:03

know, I wanted to wear bell-bottom

14:05

jeans because everybody else is wearing

14:07

them. That was the wrong answer.

14:10

That was the way to not

14:12

get your bell-bottom jeans. If you

14:14

could come up with a reason

14:16

why you wanted them, then you'd

14:19

have some bell-bottom jeans. But if

14:21

you said, I'm not doing this

14:23

because of somebody out in the

14:26

streets, forget it. Well, you know,

14:28

you also make me think that,

14:30

you know, another thing that I

14:33

think Mom and Dare was so

14:35

wise about was because in order

14:37

for them to push us to

14:40

use our own judgment, they empowered

14:42

us to make decisions and be

14:44

responsible very early in life. And

14:47

that meant. think for yourself but

14:49

in order to do that they

14:51

had to sort of hand us

14:53

our lives pretty young and I'm

14:56

not saying that they went off

14:58

to work and left us alone

15:00

but I've said this before you

15:03

know very early on mom was

15:05

like you're going to kindergarten now

15:07

here's an alarm clock here's how

15:10

to set it get yourself up

15:12

Because as she said, you're going

15:14

to school for you, not for

15:17

me. She's like, I had my

15:19

education and I don't believe that

15:21

if you care about yours, that

15:23

you need your mom to be

15:26

waking you up every morning. So

15:28

from the time we started kindergarten,

15:30

you know, now she was up.

15:33

It wasn't like she was sleeping

15:35

in. She was just listening to

15:37

hear us. Get ourselves up, start

15:40

getting dressed when we got a

15:42

little older, even start our own

15:44

breakfast. And in the era of

15:47

helicopter parenting, where people are waking

15:49

up their kids, even calling them

15:51

from college, mom and dad were

15:53

the opposite of that. And in

15:56

doing so, they were telling us,

15:58

I trust you, even at five.

16:00

or seven, you have the capability

16:03

of like taking care of yourself.

16:05

You know, and you know, I

16:07

love you, but I gotta get

16:10

you ready for the life you're

16:12

gonna have as an adult. And

16:14

that means that if I'm what,

16:17

if you can't even wake yourself

16:19

up and get yourself to kindergarten,

16:21

you know, that's how mom and

16:23

dad would think about it. It's

16:26

like, so they showed us that

16:28

we were capable and guess what

16:30

happened. We rose to. That expectation

16:33

that was like I and probably

16:35

to this day. I don't do

16:37

late. Oh, not not in the

16:40

Robinson household, you know, we don't

16:42

do on time as late on

16:44

time early as early as on

16:47

time. That's phrase Robinson. This is

16:49

a guy who was, you know,

16:51

for him to be on time,

16:54

he had to prepare because it

16:56

was hard for him to get

16:58

around and get dressed. Had a

17:00

disability. Yeah. The fact that he

17:03

had a disability didn't make him

17:05

have an excuse for anything, particularly

17:07

being late, so much so mom

17:10

used to be mad at him

17:12

because he would get ready so

17:14

early. He'd keep pushing the time

17:17

of departure for a family outing.

17:19

It's like, well, we're going to

17:21

leave at three and he's sitting

17:24

there at two, going, well, where

17:26

is everybody? And it's like, you

17:28

said three. And I would get

17:30

ready earlier just to keep him

17:33

company. Well, Barack, you know, he

17:35

had to adjust to what on

17:37

time was. Because he was on

17:40

that island time. Well, but you

17:42

know, I've got this husband who's

17:44

like, when it's time to leave,

17:47

it's three o'clock, he's getting up

17:49

and going to the bathroom. And

17:51

I was like, dude. dude like

17:54

three a three a-caught departure means

17:56

you've done all that you know

17:58

it's like don't start looking for

18:00

your glasses you know at the

18:03

three o'clock departure but he's improved

18:05

over over 30 years of marriage

18:07

but that was a you know

18:10

that was you must adjust and

18:12

Malie and Sasha with they're doing

18:14

anything with me they are early

18:17

right so they've they've learned how

18:19

to snap to it but that

18:21

was you know those kind of

18:24

lessons from parents when you think

18:26

you're helping your kid you know

18:28

because you're worried about them failing

18:30

you don't want them to be

18:33

late you don't want them to

18:35

get a not so great grade

18:37

on their project that you start

18:40

stepping in and and facilitating way

18:42

more and not letting kids like

18:44

hit bumps, you're delaying their, I

18:47

think their ability to understand that

18:49

their lives are theirs. And you

18:51

also are sending them a subliminal

18:54

message that they're not capable. That

18:56

they're not good enough, right. Yeah,

18:58

right, right. Mom and dad didn't

19:01

do that to us. No. But

19:03

I started thinking too, I was

19:05

just thinking of another story, we're

19:07

flip-flopping around, but when I think

19:10

about our relationship, you know, the

19:12

other thing that I liked and

19:14

I try to do with my

19:17

kids is like, we were close,

19:19

we were close physically, emotionally, all

19:21

of that, but we were not

19:24

co-dependent. Right. And we weren't allowed

19:26

to be. Right. a nurturer. You

19:28

were a natural on your own,

19:31

a warrior, a guardian. You took

19:33

on just temperamentally extra worries and

19:35

responsibilities. Mom understood that she couldn't

19:37

in any way imply to you

19:40

that you were responsible for me

19:42

because you would have taken that

19:44

on and gone off the deep

19:47

end with it. Right, I would

19:49

have been your caretaker rather than

19:51

your brother. In grammar school. And

19:54

I think that's another thing sometimes

19:56

parents do with siblings. Like you

19:58

make one responsible for the other.

20:01

Now you've got a kid trying

20:03

to... a parent. And that leads

20:05

to nothing but resentment on both

20:07

parts. You know, if you were

20:10

trying to parent me, that would

20:12

have replaced the special relationship that

20:14

is my brother. You know, which

20:17

is something very different. I didn't

20:19

need a father. I needed a

20:21

big brother. And so you were

20:24

fully free to be that for

20:26

me and I wasn't your burden.

20:35

Well, you know, another story I

20:37

think about is how mom and

20:39

dad trained us to work hard.

20:42

Do you remember the chores? Oh,

20:44

yeah, we had chores very early

20:46

on, very early on. That's another

20:49

thing, I think, you know. One

20:51

of the best things that our

20:53

parents did for us is real

20:55

work. Real work around the house.

20:58

And what I mean by real

21:00

work is I had, my chores

21:02

were to clean the bathroom. I

21:05

clean the bathroom. What are you

21:07

talking about? We alternated weeks. Okay,

21:09

because I loved cleaning the bathroom.

21:12

And I didn't. but I had

21:14

to do it. Mom wanted us

21:16

both to know how to have

21:19

a clean bathroom. But my every

21:21

week, every weekend job was cleaning

21:23

those stairs. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

21:25

We had 14 stairs. Notice, I

21:28

remember how many there were. Yeah,

21:30

you had to. Yeah, that went

21:32

from, went from our apartment down

21:35

to our aunt, great aunt Robbie's

21:37

apartment. And this is what I

21:39

remember about Saturday morning. Remember that

21:42

10 pot that we used to

21:44

have? We had a 10 pot,

21:46

a pot now that you used

21:48

to be on the stove, which

21:51

was now used for cleaning, and

21:53

you put a little soap, dish

21:55

soap in it, and then you

21:58

put pot. And I have to

22:00

say that I to still to

22:02

this day when I'm mopping If

22:05

we don't have that pine oil

22:07

smell, that's it. That's it. And

22:09

here we are in adulthood and

22:11

they're a partner of ours on

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partner. How about it? So when

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22:21

visit pinesal.com and find out where

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salt. This episode is brought to

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you by Rivian and their fully

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to rest and recover. Learn more

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or help someone apply for the

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fund at fairfloo.com/right to recover I'm

24:39

so happy that we're doing this

24:41

together and this show in and

24:43

of itself is is just bringing

24:46

me down memory lane, but Let's

24:48

talk about some times when we

24:50

had to actually since you were

24:53

talking about looking out for each

24:55

other when we had to lean

24:57

on each other for advice. And

24:59

I'll start because I remember talking

25:02

to you before I talked to

25:04

mom about going into coaching. Oh

25:06

yeah, that's right. And I want

25:09

to tell you a story about

25:11

when I leaned on you and

25:13

I want to tell a story

25:16

about when I didn't lean on

25:18

you. I was, well, I should.

25:20

tell the story chronologically because when

25:22

I didn't lean on you happened

25:25

before I leaned on you just

25:27

in this example was when I

25:29

was going through my first my

25:32

first of course my only divorce

25:34

and I didn't tell you about

25:36

it yeah and the reason I

25:39

didn't tell my sister about it

25:41

or my mom or anybody close

25:43

to me or the just the

25:46

challenges you guys were facing were

25:48

facing was because I know my

25:50

sister and I said if I

25:52

tell her about this, she's never

25:55

going to get over it. And

25:57

if we ever got back together,

25:59

it wasn't going to be good

26:02

for my first wife. So I

26:04

was trying to hold off telling

26:06

everybody. But the first person I

26:09

did tell was Mish and she

26:11

was so mad that I hadn't

26:13

told her and so disappointed that

26:15

I vowed that I would never

26:18

not tell her. hold anything from

26:20

you because I had never done

26:22

that ever and haven't done it

26:25

since. Well, because it was also

26:27

interesting because I could see that

26:29

something was going on that there

26:32

was a disconnect because we were

26:34

we were close. I mean, we,

26:36

you know, as we had our

26:38

periods in life where we would

26:41

come together, be apart. you know,

26:43

life would bring us together. We

26:45

wound up going to the same

26:48

college. We didn't go to the

26:50

same high school because you went

26:52

to an all-boy school and I

26:55

went to a magnet high school.

26:57

And Whitney Young wasn't open. It

26:59

wasn't. You probably would have gone,

27:01

but it was a brand new

27:04

school and because you were a

27:06

student athlete, you needed a good

27:08

solid basketball program and they hadn't

27:11

developed it at Whitney Young. So,

27:13

so we weren't in the same

27:15

high school. And that was a

27:18

good thing because we had. times

27:20

in our lives when we were

27:22

in the same school, sort of

27:24

in the same orbit, and then

27:27

we weren't. And then I followed

27:29

you to Princeton, you know, where

27:31

you were two years ahead of

27:34

me and big man on campus

27:36

there too because he was all

27:38

ivy on the basketball team and

27:41

you know all this sort of

27:43

stuff so everybody knew Craig I

27:45

was always Craig Robinson's little sister

27:47

that that I you know I'm

27:50

I'm I'm I'm really enjoying the

27:52

payback of Craig Robinson now being

27:54

Michelle Obama's brother boy times have

27:57

changed but I grew up as

27:59

Craigslist sister I was like yeah

28:01

yeah But I do other things

28:04

too. It's more fun being Michelle

28:06

Obama's big brother, much more fun.

28:08

But even in those moments when

28:11

we were in the same orbit,

28:13

we were close, but again, in

28:15

the same way, not overly dependent,

28:17

we had our own friends, we

28:20

had, you know, you know if

28:22

I was dating somebody, because that

28:24

was the other thing, dating like

28:27

big man on campus and college.

28:29

I think you scared off a

28:31

lot of potential. You would have

28:34

had way more dates. You had

28:36

way more dates once I graduated.

28:38

Yes, I did. I think people

28:40

didn't want to piss off cray.

28:43

And it wasn't like I was

28:45

trying to mark any territory or

28:47

anything. It was just, you know,

28:50

your presence. It's just walk around

28:52

people getting nervous. And then you

28:54

graduate, then you go off and

28:57

you play basketball. You have a

28:59

whole another experience. You moved to

29:01

Manchester, England and play. in Europe

29:03

for a couple of years and

29:06

so you're coming and going and

29:08

then you get married and I

29:10

was very close with you and

29:13

your first wife we were not

29:15

inseparable but it was a close

29:17

family we did things together and

29:20

then Avery was born and we

29:22

were always right there we were

29:24

very tight-knit family and then I

29:26

met Barack and you know then

29:29

we got married and we bought

29:31

a condo right down the street

29:33

from your condos. Like three buildings

29:36

down. Three buildings down in Hyde

29:38

Park in Chicago. So that was

29:40

a period when we were around

29:43

each other a lot. And when

29:45

You see your brother and you

29:47

think his or your sibling or

29:49

somebody you care about and you

29:52

think everything is good, you know,

29:54

and you're rooting for them and

29:56

then you learn that things are

29:59

falling apart because you think, I

30:01

thought I saw some things that

30:03

were red flags, but I would

30:06

always be like, how you doing?

30:08

And your reply would be, we're

30:10

great, we're good. Fine, you know,

30:12

and after that, once it all

30:15

unraveled, I said your definition of

30:17

fine. I was like, don't ever

30:19

tell me that you're good, because

30:22

I'm not going to trust that,

30:24

you know? Because it would have

30:26

been, like, even though you think

30:29

I wouldn't have been able to

30:31

handle it, I would have gotten

30:33

myself together to give you sound

30:36

advice and be able to stay

30:38

neutral. But I felt like the

30:40

dude I depend on the most

30:42

who I could tell anything couldn't,

30:45

didn't feel like he could come

30:47

to me when he was dealing

30:49

with something really hard in his

30:52

life, which is his marriage falling

30:54

apart. That was a mistake. That

30:56

was a mistake and I've learned

30:59

since then, but I talked about

31:01

you all the time to people

31:03

because now that you're an icon,

31:05

people are like, what's your sister

31:08

like? I was like, listen, this

31:10

woman used to take care of

31:12

me from the time when all

31:15

the way back to when you

31:17

used to play the piano for

31:19

me before games. people before my

31:22

high school basketball games my elementary

31:24

school sister would play the piano

31:26

so I could take a nap

31:28

and you'd play even after I

31:31

went to sleep you kept playing

31:33

teaching me how to dance oh

31:35

yes you needed help before I

31:38

would go to the prom because

31:40

he was just he was on

31:42

the court and he hadn't learned

31:45

like some basic moves so it's

31:47

like dude your first dance you've

31:49

got to so we put on

31:51

the record player and I gave

31:54

you a couple moves that you

31:56

are still doing today. That's all

31:58

you got. It's good though. It's

32:01

who you're staying in the pocket.

32:03

Stay in there. But what I

32:05

think about when I think about

32:08

us relying on each other, when

32:10

I made the move from corporate

32:12

America to become a coach. And

32:14

the reason that was such a

32:17

big deal was, you know, I

32:19

was a bond trader, salesperson in

32:21

investment banking and finance and big

32:24

time job, really. good living and

32:26

I was contemplating stopping that to

32:28

go be an assistant coach on

32:31

a basketball team. It's basically saying

32:33

I'm going to go from being

32:35

a millionaire to working for nothing.

32:37

Which seemed to be our overall

32:40

MO, both you and me. But

32:42

yeah, yeah, that was a big

32:44

leap. Yeah. To walk away from

32:47

a very secure, lucrative career and

32:49

pursue something that you love. And

32:51

you talked about how my love

32:54

for teaching. Like I always thought

32:56

I was going to be a

32:58

teacher. I never thought I would

33:01

be a coach or an investment

33:03

banker or even a basketball player.

33:05

I thought I'd be a teacher

33:07

or a cop or a fireman.

33:10

You know, that was what we

33:12

were exposed to. And you talked

33:14

about how much you knew I

33:17

loved teaching. I loved helping kids.

33:19

And then you threw out what

33:21

dad would say. Because dad had

33:24

passed by then. He had passed

33:26

by then and he said, you

33:28

said. he would say if you

33:30

could find something you'd love to

33:33

do you're not working a day

33:35

in your life and that gave

33:37

me the courage to go into

33:40

my partners that in that I

33:42

worked with and tell him hey

33:44

I'm hanging it up and I'm

33:47

going to yeah I'm going to

33:49

be a coach and everybody thought

33:51

I was having a nervous breakdown

33:53

yeah because this was after the

33:56

divorce stuff so it's like he's

33:58

having a crisis yeah yeah Even

34:00

in that I don't think you

34:03

realize that you gave me the

34:05

courage to do the same thing

34:07

eventually because watching you make some

34:10

major changes in your life and

34:12

you know walk away from what

34:14

people said you were supposed to

34:16

do rather than looking internally and

34:19

really figuring out who you were.

34:21

I was going through this the

34:23

same thing because I was working

34:26

at a corporate law firm, you

34:28

know, making great money. You imagine

34:30

our parents, mom, working class people,

34:33

I mean, we were earning more

34:35

than both of our parents' salaries

34:37

combined starting out in our first

34:39

second years, you know, really making

34:42

the most of this amazing education

34:44

that our parents helped us acquire

34:46

doing what we were supposed to

34:49

do, going to the best schools

34:51

and getting the corporate jobs. owning

34:53

the cars, I had a sob,

34:56

you had that red Porsche. I

34:58

mean, we were, we were the

35:00

black successful people, and so were

35:02

all the people that we were

35:05

surrounded by. But no one told

35:07

us that some of those pursuits

35:09

could be soul-sucking, you know? Because

35:12

first of all, our parents didn't

35:14

know. It's like, you're a lawyer,

35:16

a corporate lawyer, that's great. You're

35:19

in finance and that's what all

35:21

the fat cats want to do.

35:23

But it was interesting how both

35:26

of us entered those careers who

35:28

were successful, but something was missing.

35:30

And when I saw you make

35:32

that leap with kids and alimony

35:35

and all the responsibility, it made

35:37

me... stop and think about who

35:39

I wanted to be. And whether

35:42

I was pursuing what I thought

35:44

I was supposed to pursue or

35:46

whether I was being true to

35:49

what I cared about. And Barack

35:51

came into the picture and he

35:53

was, as I call a swerver,

35:55

never really even thought about the

35:58

need to pursue. some high-powered career

36:00

even though he was Harvard-educated blah

36:02

blah blah it was all about

36:05

what were we giving and it

36:07

so you help me make that

36:09

leap and it's it's a scary

36:12

leap to walk away with debt

36:14

because we still have student loan

36:16

debt yeah and walk away from

36:18

guaranteed money and basically start over

36:21

in brand new careers But that's

36:23

the beauty of having a big

36:25

brother who's paving the way. Yeah.

36:28

And, you know, in more recent

36:30

times, I mean, it feels like

36:32

I can call and talk to

36:35

you about anything. I mean, you

36:37

know, we talk about the kids

36:39

now. See, I have the younger

36:41

kids now. So now you're on

36:44

marriage number two. I'm a marriage

36:46

number two and I'm a... charter

36:48

member of the ODC the old

36:51

dad's club and although you look

36:53

good I do I do I

36:55

do but you know just being

36:58

able to call you up and

37:00

and have an opportunity to gain

37:02

from your wisdom it's just really

37:04

it's nice it's it's it's nice

37:07

it's it's it's nice it's it's

37:09

it's nice it's it's nice well

37:11

I couldn't have gotten through eight

37:14

years without my big brother. That's

37:16

another sort of unusual aspect to

37:18

our lives, our relationship, was this

37:21

whole, you know, being married to

37:23

the President of the United States

37:25

thing that none of us kind

37:27

of banked on. I mean, we

37:30

knew Barack was smart and, you

37:32

know, ambitious, but, you know, you

37:34

talked me into supporting his run.

37:37

I did. And he was smart

37:39

enough to know that he needed

37:41

to come to you and sell

37:44

you on the idea. So tell

37:46

folks, what did he say and

37:48

what you said to me? So,

37:51

because I was definitely like no.

37:53

No, no way this is crazy.

37:55

We've done enough crazy stuff. That's

37:57

right. That's right. And you know,

38:00

everything happens so fast because Barack

38:02

went from a state senator to

38:04

a US senator and next thing

38:07

you know, people were saying, this

38:09

guy should run for president. And

38:11

you were like, uh-uh, no, not

38:14

doing it. You had grown up

38:16

with Frasier Robinson. You wanted your

38:18

girls to have sort of a

38:20

similar upbringing with the... father who

38:23

would come home from work and

38:25

play catch and take him to

38:27

the park and do all these

38:30

things. And, um, Barat came to

38:32

me and he's like, you know,

38:34

I can't convince your sister to

38:37

go along with us. And I'm

38:39

like, well, go along with what?

38:41

It's like, I think I'm gonna

38:43

run for president. And I was

38:46

like, what? I wouldn't go along

38:48

with him. And I said to

38:50

him. I said, listen. What you

38:53

have to do is First of

38:55

all let me talk to her

38:57

You don't talk to her. Let

39:00

me talk to her No, it

39:02

was it wasn't it wasn't that

39:04

I said you know I said

39:06

if if we can get mom

39:09

on the Our mom Marian Robin

39:11

said we can get her on

39:13

board for this which she was

39:16

not on board for it we

39:18

might have a chance to get

39:20

Michon. And then I said, let

39:23

me talk to Mich and that's

39:25

when I came and talked to

39:27

you and just gave you your

39:29

advice that you had given me

39:32

back pretty much about following your

39:34

passion and doing the things you

39:36

love. But I think the thing

39:39

that pushed it over the top

39:41

was I convinced you to not

39:43

penalize him for being really good.

39:46

at what he does. And that

39:48

would be like a... who was

39:50

fighting to get to the NBA

39:52

and he makes it and because

39:55

the travel is messed up his

39:57

wife says no I don't want

39:59

you to do it and it's

40:02

just what wouldn't be fair and

40:04

I talked to you and mom

40:06

at the same time and both

40:09

of you sat there reasonably mad

40:11

and said I was right and

40:13

then I said to everybody in

40:16

our family that this is like

40:18

not a This is not just

40:20

you all doing it. This means

40:22

all of us are doing it.

40:25

Because of the scrutiny you guys

40:27

would be under, the work you're

40:29

going to have to do, it's

40:32

going to take a village to

40:34

do this whole thing. And that

40:36

was pretty much the discussion that

40:39

we had that got this whole

40:41

thing started. And that meant that

40:43

you put your money where your

40:45

mouth was. I mean, over the

40:48

course of the campaign, the mini

40:50

campaigns, our time in the White

40:52

House. I could count on you

40:55

to be there when I needed

40:57

you. You know, I mean you

40:59

campaigned with us, you campaigned for

41:02

us, you know, if anything got

41:04

tight, if I was feeling a

41:06

certain way, my team, especially Mel,

41:08

my chief of staff who's been

41:11

with me forever, she knew who

41:13

to call. She would, you know,

41:15

she, and she, Melissa loves you

41:18

more than I do. It's like

41:20

a lot of times, Melissa will

41:22

be like, I meet Greg, and

41:25

she'd call you, and I'm a

41:27

running. always a breath of fresh

41:29

air. I mean there's just something

41:31

about having your your foundation in

41:34

check, you know, like being able

41:36

to touch base with home in

41:38

the middle of something hard and

41:41

scary and uncertain. And you did

41:43

that and did that for the

41:45

girls because they needed their uncle

41:48

and their cousins and and I

41:50

wanted them to our Avery and

41:52

Leslie sadly Austin and Aaron were

41:54

so young, the poor things, they

41:57

were there. but they don't remember

41:59

any of it. They're like, why

42:01

didn't we go to that White

42:04

House? It's like, you were there.

42:06

Dude, you were there. You were

42:08

there. You were just four. You

42:11

know what? They remember the turkey

42:13

parting. That was the last thing.

42:15

Yeah. Every year, we'd have the

42:17

turkey pardoning. And that was the

42:20

last thing. Yeah. Every year, we'd

42:22

have the turkey pardoning. And it

42:24

was cute when they were little,

42:27

but as they got older. You

42:29

could see on their faces in

42:31

the shots. Just poke my eyes

42:34

out. Just right now, just get

42:36

me out of here. I'm standing

42:38

with my father telling these stupid

42:41

jokes, you know, next to a

42:43

turkey. So by the time we

42:45

got to the last year, the

42:47

last turkey pardoning, they were done.

42:50

They were just like, I'm out.

42:52

I'm not going. So in subs,

42:54

Austin and Aaron, who were, how

42:57

were they at the time? Oh,

42:59

six and four, maybe. Like they

43:01

were like, call me up. I'm

43:04

in, coach, I'm ready. I'm ready

43:06

to stand next to Uncle Baroque.

43:08

And they loved his stupid jokes.

43:10

They loved his jokes. You know,

43:13

he felt like a new man.

43:15

He's like, I got a new

43:17

crew in. They were fascinated. Why

43:20

their daughters were like, you are

43:22

sad, dad. you know, Austin and

43:24

Aaron came in. So they remember

43:27

that because that was like the

43:29

last chance when they started having

43:31

memories. Of course, nothing was better

43:33

than having Thanksgiving dinner at the

43:36

White House. So yeah. So we

43:38

just absolutely loved being a part

43:40

of that whole thing. This

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44:04

the prep that's required of

44:06

a colonoscopy. When I was

44:08

a coach, my players had

44:10

a team of people helping

44:12

them with their physical well-being.

44:14

They had so many tools

44:16

to make sure every member

44:18

of the team was on

44:20

top of their health and

44:22

wellness. But what I want

44:24

our listeners to know is

44:26

that even if you eat

44:28

well and have a healthy

44:30

lifestyle, that does not mean

44:32

you are low risk for

44:34

colon cancer. The Kologar test

44:36

is the only FDA-approved non-invasive

44:38

option that looks for both

44:40

altered DNA and blood in

44:42

your stool, which can indicate

44:44

the presence of abnormal cells.

44:46

The good news is that

44:48

when caught at the early

44:50

stages, colon cancer is survivable

44:52

in 90% of people. So

44:54

screening and early detection are

44:57

crucial. With zero downtime, no

44:59

special preparation and a screening

45:01

test that's delivered right to

45:03

your door, we shouldn't let

45:05

our health take a back

45:07

seat. So if you're 45

45:09

or older and at average

45:11

risk, ask your health care

45:13

provider about screening for colon

45:15

cancer with the Kologar test.

45:17

You can also request a

45:19

Kologar prescription today at Kologar.com/podcast.

45:21

The Kologar test is intended

45:23

to screen adults 45 and

45:25

older at average risk for

45:27

colorectal cancer. Do not use

45:29

a cologar test if you

45:31

have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel

45:33

disease, and certain hereditary syndromes,

45:35

or a personal or family

45:37

history of colorectal cancer. The

45:39

cologar test is not a

45:41

replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk

45:43

patients. Cologard test performance in

45:45

adults ages 45 to 49

45:47

is estimated based on a

45:49

large clinical study of patients

45:51

50 and older. False positives

45:53

and false negatives can occur.

45:55

Cologard is available by Prescription

45:57

Only. This episode of IMO

45:59

is sponsored by Chase Home

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the process with confidence. This

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brings me back to a

46:24

time when we grew up.

46:26

living upstairs from my aunt

46:28

in a two-family home that

46:30

she owned and we rented.

46:32

And it was a wonderful

46:34

time, but being a renter,

46:36

we had to be extremely

46:38

careful of what we did.

46:40

For example, we had to

46:42

be quiet at a certain

46:44

time, we couldn't play on

46:46

the front lawn, my sister

46:48

couldn't have a dog, and

46:50

we didn't realize the importance

46:52

of... being a homeowner until

46:54

we got late in life.

46:56

We always would talk to

46:58

our dad about why we

47:00

don't own a home and

47:02

he talked about being house

47:04

poor. Little did we know

47:06

that home ownership was a

47:08

great way to build equity.

47:10

My sister and I ended

47:12

up buying our own homes

47:14

later in life and we

47:16

used that to help pay

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for our kids college. And

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that is a way where

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47:52

know, it just we started talking

47:54

about this at the outset, why

47:56

we're doing the show. You know,

47:59

um, host White House and. and

48:01

writing the books and doing book

48:03

tours. You know, we just, you

48:06

know, speaking at leadership conferences, things

48:08

you do. As a coach, you

48:10

realize that what we have, even

48:13

in our lack of resources, you

48:15

know, in our household growing up,

48:17

we had people who would share

48:20

their opinions, give us advice. We

48:22

had. mentors and we were used

48:24

to mentoring and being mentored and

48:27

I realize that a lot of

48:29

people don't have that you know

48:31

they don't they don't have a

48:34

safe place to come sometimes right

48:36

where they feel comfortable being vulnerable

48:38

and asking hard questions or they

48:41

don't have people in their lives

48:43

they trust they they they are

48:46

lone wolves or maybe they have

48:48

contentious relationships where they're estranged from

48:50

the people they could rely on.

48:53

So a lot of people out

48:55

there are looking for guidance. A

48:57

lot of people have questions. They

49:00

want to know especially when they

49:02

see somebody of note with a

49:04

platform who, you know, by every

49:07

measure, looks successful. The first question

49:09

is how? How did you do

49:11

this? Tell me more. So I

49:14

can only access so many people

49:16

through books or tours or at...

49:18

you know, limited leadership conferences. So

49:21

I think this podcast, first and

49:23

foremost, gives us an opportunity to

49:25

hear from folks. You know, we're

49:28

going to be taking, you know,

49:30

questions from listeners who are going

49:32

through some things and just need

49:35

a little advice. They want to

49:37

hear from people in conversations. And

49:40

folks are looking for a place

49:42

where they can just, they can

49:44

hear stories, you know, What I

49:47

realize is like by sharing some

49:49

of these stories, you know, it

49:51

It always taps into something from

49:54

somebody else. People, you know, they

49:56

wanna hear some honest kind of

49:58

conversation about how people are working

50:01

it through. And we don't have

50:03

all the answers, you know. I

50:05

mean, this show isn't about us

50:08

being experts at anything other than

50:10

the lives that we've lived. But

50:12

what we do have are a

50:15

lot of opinions. Hence the name.

50:17

In my opinion, IMO. And what

50:19

better person to do this with

50:22

than my big brother who, you

50:24

know, I know how you think,

50:26

I know why you think it?

50:29

You were funny as all get

50:31

out. I trust you implicitly, but

50:34

I'm also excited that we're going

50:36

to involve other people around our

50:38

table that we've got friends and,

50:41

you know, other leaders out there

50:43

and people we've met over the

50:45

scope of our lifetimes who, you

50:48

know, have their own podcast or

50:50

living their own lives who are

50:52

going to come in and engage

50:55

because we have our opinions but

50:57

so do a lot of other

50:59

people and I hope the show

51:02

you know encourages people to have

51:04

conversations about what they're afraid about

51:06

don't do what you know the

51:09

one time you didn't lean on

51:11

me you know right you know

51:13

at a time when you needed

51:16

it because you were afraid of

51:18

what I would think or what

51:20

you know We want to encourage

51:23

the listeners, that's what we need

51:25

in this time. We need kitchen

51:28

tables where we can just sit

51:30

down and share opinions, share experiences.

51:32

That's where the wisdom comes from.

51:35

So I'm excited to be engaged

51:37

in some of those conversations with

51:39

you. How are you thinking about

51:42

this? I couldn't agree with you

51:44

more. I have over these years.

51:46

And we talked about this a

51:49

little earlier about being, our parents

51:51

being, before there was the term

51:53

lifetime, lifetime learn. Right? That's what

51:56

they were. And it's been so

51:58

helpful for me and my adult

52:00

life and our adult lives. I

52:03

just want to be able to

52:05

share what we can with folks

52:07

who weren't as fortunate to have

52:10

Frazier and Robinson as parents. And

52:12

then I have just watched you

52:14

grow into this person who has

52:17

a platform where people you touch

52:19

people. people listen to you and

52:22

it's just an honor to be

52:24

sitting here next to you and

52:26

being able to share that with

52:29

the rest of the world and

52:31

hopefully it'll be fun it'll be

52:33

fun you know because we we

52:36

may not have all the answers

52:38

but we got plenty of opinions

52:40

we sure do we sure do

52:43

well it's it's it's it's gonna

52:45

be a joy to have an

52:47

excuse to hang with my big

52:50

brother So we're going to want,

52:52

we want you to hang with

52:54

us tough. So, and feel free

52:57

to engage with us. Subscribe, follow

52:59

us on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify,

53:01

Audible, and wherever you get your

53:04

podcast, look us up, and send

53:06

us some questions. We'd love to

53:08

get questions from you folks and

53:11

try and answer them. I plan

53:13

on learning something too in this.

53:16

So for sure, lifelong learners. Like

53:18

we hope to learn from our

53:20

guests. We hope to learn from

53:23

our listeners. And I can't wait

53:25

until we start getting feedback from

53:27

people to hear what's missing. What

53:30

more can we talk about? What

53:32

areas can we touch on? But

53:34

again, we are not the experts.

53:37

This is just our opinion and

53:39

everybody's got one. And it's important.

53:41

You know, it's important to have

53:44

an opinion in life. and

53:46

put it out

53:48

there. out there. So I'm

53:51

excited. So am I.

53:53

It'll be a

53:55

lot of fun.

53:58

of Thank you

54:00

for coming on

54:03

this journey with

54:05

me, journey with for

54:07

having me. for having me.

54:10

Yeah.