0:00

saying goodbye to the father of

0:02

the city's famous river architecture

0:05

tours. I'm Sasha Ann Simons, and

0:07

this is Reset. If

0:20

you've ever taken an architecture boat tour

0:22

on the Chicago River, You have

0:24

Bob Irving to thank for that. Back

0:26

in the 1980s, he helped create

0:29

the city's very first river cruises dedicated

0:31

to telling the story of Chicago's

0:33

skyline. They're now a must -do

0:35

for tourists and locals alike. Bob

0:37

Irving died earlier this month at the

0:39

age of 93. So to

0:41

honor him, we reflected on his

0:43

life, his vision, and the River

0:45

Tour legacy that's become one of

0:47

Chicago's most beloved traditions. We

0:50

spoke with Jeffrey Baer, WTTW

0:52

host and architecture boat cruise

0:54

docent, Laurie Peterson, who's

0:56

editor of the American Institute of

0:58

Architects Guide to Chicago, and

1:00

Linda Miller, who's president of Friends

1:02

of Historic Second Church. I

1:04

asked our panel what comes to mind

1:06

when they think about Bob Irving and

1:08

Linda kicked it off. Bob

1:11

was one of a

1:13

kind. He

1:15

was incredibly

1:17

erudite, knowledgeable, devoted

1:20

to Chicago and Chicago's

1:22

architecture. Snarky. Well,

1:26

yeah, I wasn't going to say that. Geez,

1:29

Jeffrey. No,

1:32

he did. He had

1:34

a little witty, but

1:36

it could be a little

1:38

irreverent. Yeah. But

1:40

engaging, engaging. I knew him

1:42

as a docent at Second

1:45

Presbyterian Church, Chicago's

1:47

only national historical landmark church.

1:50

And he just, he engaged.

1:52

the crowd that he was

1:54

touring. He, people hung on

1:56

his every word and he

1:58

would, well, we'll talk a little

2:00

bit about his things, but

2:03

he really had a way of

2:05

sharing his knowledge of Chicago

2:07

architecture with everybody. And the most lasting

2:09

piece of that is the architecture

2:11

boat tour. What are your most immediate

2:13

memories of Bob, Laurie? Well,

2:15

we were both docents at Charlie

2:17

Persky House, which is a house museum

2:19

on the Gold Coast on Aster

2:22

Street, designed by Louis Sullivan with Frank

2:24

Lloyd Wright as his Chief Draftsman.

2:26

Oh, wow. So I'm

2:28

open in 1892. The docent

2:30

program opened in... 96

2:32

and Bob was in the first

2:34

core of docents for that house as

2:36

he was in the first core

2:38

of docents for Glesner House down on

2:40

Prairie Avenue which is one of

2:42

Chicago's first two city landmarks. Wow. Glesner

2:45

and Clark House were the first

2:47

two so he had a I don't

2:49

know if the word passionate came

2:51

up, but he was passionate about Chicago.

2:53

He's adopted city. He was from

2:55

New York, but he was passionate about

2:57

Chicago and about sharing his knowledge

2:59

about Chicago and the river tours, the

3:01

most famous, but also house museums and

3:03

the church. So he was docents

3:05

at three interior spaces, you know,

3:07

two houses in a church as

3:09

well as the river, which is

3:11

of course the best known. Definitely

3:13

a fixture. Now, I know what

3:15

kind of impression he made on you,

3:17

Jeffrey. Tell us more about

3:19

when you first met him. Well,

3:21

so I've been a docent, or a

3:23

docent is a fancy word for tour guide. Unpaid.

3:27

Unpaid. Volunteer

3:29

tour guide, yes. I've

3:31

been doing that longer than I've

3:33

been at WTTW. I learned

3:35

the River Tour in 1988. Oh,

3:38

wow. And Bob had started

3:40

it about

3:42

six years before

3:44

that. So he

3:46

trained you? Yeah. And I mean,

3:48

the origin story of the River Tour is amazing.

3:50

So the River Tour, as you've heard, is

3:52

this, as you said. Yes. I mean, if there's

3:54

one thing that you're supposed to do when

3:56

you come to Chicago, it's the River Tour. Well,

3:58

in 1983, he

4:01

was just asked to give a

4:03

River Tour for a convention. He

4:07

had already been leading sort of walking tours

4:09

along the river and So they got

4:11

a boat, but the boat was too big

4:14

to go under the bridges So they arranged

4:16

to raise the bridges so the boat could

4:18

go under and they and it was

4:20

you know The people boarding the boat which

4:22

saw like Chicago rats, you know I mean

4:24

the river was the river was sketchy

4:26

back then, you know It wasn't the river

4:28

that we're seeing today. Yeah, and so they

4:30

got to the end of the where they

4:32

were gonna turn around And they hadn't

4:34

made any arrangements to raise the bridges to

4:36

come back. So everybody had

4:38

to get off the boat

4:40

and take taxicabs. You know, walking

4:42

through this kind of abandoned field

4:45

with more Chicago rats, you know, to

4:47

get back where they were going. I

4:49

mean, that's the unromantic start of the

4:51

river cruise. But I think, and I

4:53

don't know who said, hey, we should

4:55

do this regularly, probably Bob. But,

4:58

you know, so then he

5:00

started teaching the River Tour

5:02

to other docents like me.

5:04

He was very intimidating. Really?

5:07

He had been a... And

5:09

he knew a lot. He

5:11

was a professor, right? He

5:13

was very professorial. And,

5:16

you know, he clears voice. And

5:18

he would say things like, I'm

5:20

trying to learn the tour, right? And

5:22

he'd say, well, of course, as

5:24

you're seeing on your left, this building

5:26

with axial symmetry, which of course

5:28

means that the intermediate cordus lines are

5:30

symmetrical on both sides. Of course,

5:33

you can see the recessed spandrels are

5:35

different from the peers. Of course.

5:37

Of course. Of course. Because everybody knows

5:39

that. Yeah. And I'm like, of

5:41

course. Really? So

5:44

he was quite the fellow.

5:46

Oh my goodness, that's hilarious. A

5:49

River Cruise is exactly what I did.

5:51

I moved to Chicago in early 2021

5:53

when we were in the height of

5:55

the pandemic and not touching each other

5:57

or going anywhere, barely looking at

5:59

each other. And various variants were

6:01

popping up. And it was the first thing

6:03

that we could do safely to get to

6:05

know the city. I got this. big job,

6:07

and that's like, I didn't get to know

6:09

this place, but I want to get to

6:11

know these buildings. First thing I did was

6:13

a river cruise. Linda, why do you

6:15

think it's become such a beloved Chicago tradition? Well,

6:18

Chicago's architecture, right? Beautiful.

6:20

We are the city of architecture. So

6:23

you get to see it from the river

6:25

in a way that you can't see

6:27

it anywhere else, any way else. The other

6:29

thing that Bob said about it was, This

6:31

is the perfect way to do

6:33

the tour because you don't have to

6:35

walk people around. They get to

6:37

sit and enjoy themselves and not exert

6:39

themselves and hear about all the

6:41

wonderful architecture. How

6:44

did Bob's passion for architecture and

6:46

storytelling shine through on those tours?

6:48

I know we just got a

6:50

wonderful example from Jeffrey, but what

6:52

did it look like in your

6:54

view, Laurie? Well, I think he

6:56

was great at explaining things to the

6:58

layperson. I mean, I think when he

7:00

was trying to train docents, he obviously

7:02

was intimidating them. His standard was high.

7:05

But yes, he was a natural

7:07

born storyteller. And his voice

7:09

came through and everything. He also

7:11

wrote the loop essay for

7:13

the AI Guide to Chicago. In

7:15

two pages, explain the history

7:17

of the loop, which is not

7:19

easy to do. But he's

7:21

one of those. where

7:23

you read what he wrote and

7:25

you hear his voice reading it. You

7:27

know, there are few people that

7:29

when they write things, you just hear

7:32

them speaking. You can hear them.

7:34

Lee Bay is the same way when I,

7:36

Lee Bay's book, I hear Lee Bay talking when

7:38

I read Southern Exposure. And that's

7:40

the way it was with Bob. He had very

7:42

distinctive voice, not only his English accent, but -

7:44

Which they say was put on, right? Yes,

7:46

because he was from the Bronx. He was from

7:48

the Bronx. Where did that come from? He

7:51

sounds like quite the character. He never really

7:53

admitted it. From English literature,

7:56

which was his PhD was

7:58

in English. Interesting. I

8:00

want to start walking around

8:03

with an accent. Yeah, whatever accent

8:05

you want to adopt is,

8:07

it's just Chicago. Yes. So

8:09

I want to hear more, Jeffrey, about

8:11

that training experience. So the other thing

8:13

about Bob is, Which I

8:15

hope has come through is humor. Yeah, he

8:18

was a professor and he was intimidating

8:20

and he was a little pompous But he

8:22

was when I said snarky before you

8:24

know that he was Humorous and to this

8:26

day the biggest laugh I get on

8:28

my tour and I'd still do River to

8:30

tours from time to time. The biggest

8:32

laugh I get is the line I stole

8:34

from Bob. You got to tell us.

8:36

Yeah. Well, so, you know, you tell that

8:38

one of the things we do on

8:40

the river tours, we tell the whole story

8:42

of the reversal of the Chicago River.

8:44

So our river used to flow into Lake

8:46

Michigan, but we were also throwing all

8:48

our sewage in the river and our drinking

8:50

water comes from Lake Michigan. So in

8:52

1900, they finally dug this big canal and

8:54

they reversed the flow of the river

8:56

to send our sewage down the Mississippi, which

8:58

Bob would say. So now our sewage

9:00

goes past St. Louis. pause,

9:02

pause, a taste of

9:04

Chicago. And that

9:06

always gets a huge laugh on, I mean,

9:08

he would describe - I mean, did he

9:11

know that you were carrying this joke on?

9:13

I don't know. I don't know if he

9:15

knows that I stole his joke, but I,

9:17

you know, we all steal from each other.

9:19

I mean, he just, he would, yeah, there

9:21

would be like various, you know, one building,

9:23

he described as a phallus in one of

9:25

his early tours. There was a

9:27

sculpture that he said looked like a big

9:29

Tootsie roll on its, you know, He

9:32

was, he loved, I

9:34

mean, clearly loved, he knew

9:36

how to get, how to land a

9:38

line with the audience. He just made

9:40

architecture sound really, really interesting, right? Right.

9:42

And Linda, you were, I mean, not

9:44

just both docents, but like Bob was

9:47

a friend. Right, he was a friend.

9:50

And I think, I

9:53

spent, having dinners with him and

9:55

lunches with him this last year before

9:57

he died. And he was still

9:59

the same person at 93. He was

10:01

no longer a docent, but

10:04

he still could get around pretty

10:06

well. But still

10:08

that same woody, erudite. guy

10:10

with the British accent, talking

10:12

about what he was reading,

10:14

which these days was mostly

10:16

the newspaper, but we had

10:18

conversations about that. And

10:21

he was still the same guy

10:23

up until the very end. I had

10:25

lunch with him a couple of days

10:27

before he died, and he was carrying

10:29

on in the same way. Yeah, so. Yeah,

10:33

that's good. So you saw him recently? I

10:35

did. Yeah. How about you, Laurie? I

10:38

had dinner with him probably about

10:41

a year ago, and yeah,

10:43

he was very funny

10:45

and always very engaging.

10:48

So right to the very end, still

10:50

making folks laugh. Well, think about the

10:52

impact, really. I mean, think about the

10:54

river tour, and all the other boat

10:56

companies have knocked off the Chicago Architecture

10:58

Center river crews, you know, so they're

11:00

all the boat tour companies do it,

11:02

and they call their tour guides dozens.

11:05

I love that. I

11:08

mean, he made a notable decision

11:10

to choose the river instead of the

11:12

lakefront back then. Absolutely. And I

11:15

remember the very first time I took,

11:17

well, you just said when you

11:19

moved to Chicago, you know, the perspective

11:21

from the river. It's like

11:23

watching a movie because the boat

11:25

is moving along and the buildings constantly

11:27

change as they move, as you

11:29

move, but they, you know, I mean,

11:31

it's, and they're sort of sort

11:33

of soaring over your head. It's, it's

11:35

phenomenal. Can I tell you, I

11:37

still haven't been on the lake side

11:39

of things. I've done the river

11:41

like a few times, but still have

11:43

not touched the lake properly. So

11:45

yeah, maybe it was Bob. Right.

11:47

Maybe it's the influence of Bob. I'm channeling

11:50

Bob. Chicago's Skyline,

11:53

it's changed a lot over

11:55

the decades. How do you

11:57

think Bob would feel about the city today? Oh,

12:01

Lori from the architecture,

12:04

American Institute of Architecture. I'd love to hear

12:06

from you all. I think he still

12:08

loved it and I think he would love

12:10

the fact that a lot of buildings,

12:12

I think when he was first active, you

12:14

know, in the 60s and 70s when

12:16

he came here, that was really, it was

12:18

the very beginning of preservation and most

12:20

buildings were still just being knocked down. with

12:22

only a small group of people putting

12:24

up a fight. And now

12:26

when you try and knock down an important building, you have

12:28

a lot of people up in arms about it, and

12:31

it gets a lot of publicity. And

12:33

yeah, people might not know

12:35

that the CAC, Chicago Architecture Center,

12:38

does these river cruises. It

12:40

really started as a group of

12:42

concerned architects and people it

12:44

started to save Glesner House, this

12:46

house museum, and they

12:48

created, it was called the Chicago

12:50

School of Architecture Foundation. And

12:53

then it got shortened to Chicago Architecture

12:55

Foundation, and it's changed to Chicago Architecture Center.

12:58

So the genesis of this group that

13:00

does tours that attract people from

13:02

all over the world was saving this

13:05

unloved, unwanted historic house designed

13:07

by Henry Hobson Richardson, a

13:09

very, very important house. But

13:11

now everyone realizes what an

13:13

important house it is. But

13:15

Bob really came to Chicago in

13:17

early days when the knock

13:19

it down theory really was

13:21

the reigning philosophy. And he

13:23

was part of a very

13:25

dedicated small group of people.

13:28

Really at the forefront

13:30

of preserving Chicago's

13:32

architectural heritage. What

13:34

do you hope people remember

13:36

most about Bob Irving and just

13:38

the work that he started

13:40

in this city, Linda? Well,

13:43

I hope that they realize that

13:45

he is the author of the

13:47

Chicago Riverboat Tour. And

13:49

then think about him as

13:51

this wonderful champion of

13:54

Chicago's architecture. And

13:56

I think of, you know, when I go

13:58

to someplace, I want to have a really

14:00

good dose. Think of all

14:02

the people who enjoyed his

14:04

tours at Glesner House, at Charlie

14:06

Persky House, at Clark House,

14:08

and that Second Presbyterian Church. I

14:10

mean, he touched the lives

14:12

and increased their knowledge of Chicago's

14:15

architecture, thousands and thousands of

14:17

people. Let's keep that going. amazing.

14:19

Yeah, let's keep it going.

14:21

Jeffrey? Well, I'm just thinking

14:23

I was just at docent training for

14:25

this year, the River Tour. I

14:27

don't know how many. there feels like

14:29

there's hundreds of people now who are training

14:31

to do the river tour. Yeah. That

14:34

you can trace that all the way back

14:36

to this to Bob and really what

14:38

you said about the changes. I

14:40

really thought about this as Laurie was

14:42

talking. I mean the river was like sort

14:44

of the back alley of Chicago when he

14:46

started doing it. Right. There was no I

14:48

mean the river walk. There was no river

14:51

walk. So I think I don't know,

14:53

but I would think Bob would be amazed.

14:55

Yeah, look at us now. Yes, exactly. Look

14:57

at us now. We'll leave it there. That's

14:59

Jeffrey Baer, Laurie Peterson, and Linda Miller. Thank

15:01

you all so much. Rest in peace,

15:03

Bob. It

15:11

was mixed by Ari Mejia. If

15:13

you like conversations like this one that

15:15

spotlight the history and beauty of

15:18

Chicago architecture, scroll back in the feed

15:20

and check out our What's That

15:22

Building series, where we explore the city's

15:24

storied towers, skyscrapers, and other structures

15:26

with expert Dennis Rodkin. I'm Sasha Ann

15:28

Simons. We'll meet again soon.