0:01

So, properties have been written

0:03

off as low-brow TV for women.

0:05

But daytime dramas are an important

0:07

part of pop culture and took

0:10

on bold storylines such as abortion

0:12

and AIDS before prime time. On

0:14

this season of Making Stories Without

0:17

End from W.B.E.Z. Chicago, learned about

0:19

the Chicago woman who started it

0:21

all and why these stories endure.

0:24

Listen wherever you get your

0:26

podcast. This

0:30

W-B-E-Z podcast is supported by

0:32

you Chicago's Crown Family School

0:35

of Social Work Policy and

0:37

Practice. Their master's degree in

0:39

social sector leadership and non-profit

0:41

management is designed for professionals

0:43

to examine today's social issues,

0:46

whether starting, changing, or advancing

0:48

in their career. Graduates emerge

0:50

as leaders who can make

0:52

an impact in the social

0:54

sector. Applications open through June

0:57

1st at Crown School. Uchchicago.EDU

0:59

slash SSL. Hey everyone, it's Sasha

1:01

Ann Simons. I'm excited to share

1:03

a new series we just launched

1:06

at WBEZ, Making, Stories Without End.

1:08

This limited series podcast takes a

1:10

deep dive into the history and

1:12

lasting impact of daytime dramas, which

1:15

started right here in Chicago. These

1:17

shows didn't just entertain. They shaped

1:19

conversations around culture and society in

1:21

ways that still resonate today. I

1:24

hope you enjoy the first episode

1:26

and don't forget to subscribe to

1:28

making stories without end wherever you

1:30

get your podcasts. I've been a

1:33

reporter for a long time. And for

1:35

much of my career here in

1:37

my hometown of Chicago, I reported

1:39

on race. I've done stories on

1:41

housing, segregation, food injustice, economic

1:44

development. It's been so fulfilling,

1:46

but something you likely don't know

1:48

about me and maybe don't expect. I

1:50

am a huge soap opera fan. And

1:53

I mean huge. You might be thinking,

1:55

so what? Soaps are known for

1:57

the absurd people returning from the...

2:00

amnesia is a popular plot

2:02

device, possession by the devil.

2:04

Sometimes the acting is overwrought,

2:06

chocolate up to all the

2:08

lines that must be memorized.

2:10

There are no reruns, therefore

2:12

stories without end, 250 episodes

2:14

a year. I argue that

2:17

there is a deeper picture

2:19

of the daytime drama, an

2:21

important part of American television

2:23

history and popular culture. Not

2:25

to mention the social issues

2:27

Soaps tackled before other shows.

2:29

Abortion, divorce, and queer representation

2:31

have been front-furners stories with

2:33

flushed-out characters and storylines played

2:35

out over months. Not just

2:38

one very special episode. Soap

2:40

operas are a part of

2:42

families and childhoods. We age

2:44

with those characters and families

2:46

who've been around for decades.

2:48

Those bonds are strong. I

2:50

want you, dear listener, to

2:52

join me on this journey

2:54

where I argue that Soaps

2:56

have not gotten the credit

2:58

they deserve. They're dismissed as

3:01

low brown entertainment for women.

3:03

Yet, as you'll learn throughout

3:05

this season of making Stories

3:07

Without End, Soaps are the

3:09

foundation for American television storytelling

3:11

and served as a financial

3:13

powerhouse to the networks for

3:15

decades. Without soaps, we wouldn't

3:17

have dramas, reality shows. Without

3:19

soaps, we wouldn't have many

3:22

of the TV tropes in

3:24

shows we love to stream

3:26

and binge watch. Cliff hangers,

3:28

cereals, vixens, all come from

3:30

soaps. On top of all

3:32

that, I want to introduce

3:34

you to the Chicago woman

3:36

who doesn't get near enough

3:38

credit for developing storytelling for

3:40

the small screen. So settle

3:43

in while I take you

3:45

to the fictional Midwestern towns

3:47

of Salem. Genoa City, Oakdale,

3:49

and Springfield. My soap origin

3:51

love story begins with

3:53

our babysitter, Mrs. Rhymes.

3:56

I've been watching Soaps

3:59

and I was at

4:01

least five years old.

4:04

Specifically, all my children.

4:07

We were an ABC

4:09

home. I learned the

4:12

word blackmail from watching

4:14

subs when I asked

4:17

Mrs. Rhymes what the

4:20

word meant. We bonded

4:22

over all my children,

4:25

one life to live.

4:31

My paternal grandmother loved guiding light

4:33

on CVS, so that's how I

4:35

got exposed. I also watched with

4:37

my mother, and that's typical. Ewers

4:39

watched with their mothers and their

4:41

grandmothers. I was that kid who

4:44

asked for my nap time to

4:46

be changed so I wouldn't miss

4:48

all my children. Then in elementary

4:50

school, Mrs. Rines would give me

4:52

soap updates when I got off

4:55

the school bus. I wondered if

4:57

any of this ever concerned my

4:59

mother. No. I

5:01

guess I was pretty lenient with

5:03

you. You just seemed like you

5:06

were mature and just kind of

5:08

knew what you wanted and you

5:11

could understand or whatever. It just

5:13

never really, it never bothered me

5:15

and it didn't seem like it

5:18

really affected you. And I think

5:20

a lot of times that stuff

5:22

is something you don't understand anyway.

5:25

Right. I didn't understand blackmail. But

5:27

this pretty much tracks for my

5:29

mother. She never restricted what I

5:32

could read either. Didn't blink when

5:34

I picked up The Exorcist in

5:36

fifth grade. Or Tony Morrison's The

5:39

Bluest Eye in sixth grade. So

5:41

I was all in on subcontent.

5:44

On Chicago's urban radio station WGCI,

5:46

a comedian who created a character

5:48

named Tyrone gave an all my

5:51

children juicy recap daily at 3.30

5:53

p. My mother and I looked

5:55

forward to these short updates in

5:58

the 1980s. Speaking of radio. This

6:00

is the medium that Soaps got

6:02

their start in. But before we

6:05

get to that, I want to

6:07

tell you a little broadcasting history.

6:09

I'm talking to you on a

6:12

podcast, just like Radio did a

6:14

hundred years ago. It's intimate. It

6:17

captures an audience. During America's radio

6:19

boom, it became commonplace to sit

6:21

around a radio every evening with

6:24

the family and listen. That's owed

6:26

in large part to the minstrel

6:28

show, Amos and Andy. Now listen

6:31

Amos, you just stick to me

6:33

and you'll be rich. What would

6:35

you think if you'd wake up

6:38

some morning and put your hand

6:40

in your pants on it? Two

6:43

white minister performers debuted the show

6:45

in 1928 for the NBC affiliate

6:47

owned by the Chicago Daily News.

6:50

Amos and Andy became broadcasting's first

6:52

mass phenomenon. The actors spoke in

6:54

stereotypical dialect. They were black face

6:57

performers. without the paint because they

6:59

didn't need to, it was radio.

7:01

But radio programmers were faced with

7:04

a conundrum. The first way feminist

7:06

movement just came to a close.

7:08

Women achieved the right to vote,

7:11

and programmers needed to figure out

7:13

how to appeal to them. They

7:16

wouldn't dare move to earlier programming.

7:18

Early radio was in the evening

7:20

because executives were concerned housewives would

7:23

not be able to concentrate on

7:25

a program while doing their chores.

7:27

So General Mills created the character

7:30

Betty Crocker to give daily hints

7:32

on how to shop and care

7:34

for the home more efficiently. She's

7:37

as important as they come. You

7:39

can't understand the history of soap

7:41

operas in this country without knowing

7:44

Erna. She would revolutionize television with

7:46

a new form. Erna Phillips is

7:49

such a great character in her

7:51

own right. Elena Levant is a

7:53

professor in media cinema and digital

7:56

study. at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

7:58

Like me, she's a huge soap

8:00

fan. Levine turned fandom into scholarship.

8:03

She's the author of the book,

8:05

Her Stories, Daytime Soap Opera in

8:07

U.S. Television History. Erna was born

8:10

and raised in Chicago. She attended

8:12

Northwestern University, the University of Illinois,

8:14

and the University of Wisconsin. Before

8:17

becoming the pioneering powerhouse behind soap

8:19

operas on the radio, she taught

8:22

speech in Dayton, Ohio. She started

8:24

out. wanting to be an actress.

8:26

Various people told her she was

8:29

too plain and unattractive to have

8:31

that kind of role, but radio

8:33

had just come along and she

8:36

started working in radio and she

8:38

was working at WGM. She's from

8:40

Chicago and they asked her would

8:43

she create a daily kind of

8:45

narrative scripted show for women who

8:47

were working in the home during

8:50

the day and that was when

8:52

she created painted dreams and she

8:55

wrote it as well as well

8:57

as performed in it. Painted Dreams

8:59

aired five days a week on

9:02

WGM radio. With that daily scripted

9:04

show, Erna birthed a genre known

9:06

as the daytime serial. She wanted

9:09

Painted Dreams to air nationwide, but

9:11

she clashed with WGM. She got

9:13

in a fight with them about

9:16

the ownership of the show because

9:18

she wanted it to go nationwide,

9:20

and she ended up leaving and

9:23

creating a show at WMAQ called

9:25

Today's Children, which was basically a

9:28

remake of painted dreams. It was

9:30

kind of the same characters. That

9:32

was in 1932. Today's children. An

9:35

outstanding value. Never before a General

9:37

Mills offer like this. Daytime serials

9:39

were live and often featured theater

9:42

actors. has sensed spunkies growing bewilderment

9:44

and discontent at living in this

9:46

house with her, while his father

9:49

stays at a hotel. The complexities

9:51

of the situation... They have a

9:54

narrator who is usually... a male

9:56

voice, I mean it was always

9:58

a male voice in radio, who

10:01

would sort of tell you what

10:03

the characters were thinking or feeling

10:05

or experiencing, which is very different

10:08

from the way that television soap

10:10

opera works. The story lines, however,

10:12

were women centered. In her unpublished

10:15

autobiography, Erner talked about forgetting her

10:17

fantasies and approaching reality, painted dreams

10:19

and today's children were based on

10:22

people she knew. At first, she

10:24

was drawn to the classic childhood

10:27

fantasy of, and they lived happily

10:29

ever after. But then, she realized

10:31

she needed to do reality, and

10:34

not fantasy. Commercial goods companies took

10:36

notice and realized the cereal could

10:38

be a conduit to their customers.

10:41

So the radio cereals tended to

10:43

be 15 minutes a day in

10:45

terms of episode length. So they

10:48

would often package a bunch of

10:50

them together, usually four in an

10:52

hour. They were sponsored by... domestic

10:55

goods kinds of manufacturers, companies like

10:57

Proctor and Gamble, Colgate, Palm olive,

11:00

and those companies saw their purpose

11:02

really as advertising their products. And

11:04

so even though the episodes were

11:07

15 minutes long, probably at least

11:09

five of those minutes was spent

11:11

on these commercial announcements, that would

11:14

usually be at the beginning and

11:16

the end, sometimes in the middle

11:18

as well. The stories were centered

11:21

around families, sometimes around an individual

11:23

woman who was the kind of

11:25

center of the storyline, and Either

11:28

she herself would have all kinds

11:30

of trials and problems or she

11:33

would be kind of the wise

11:35

mothering figure to sometimes literally her

11:37

own children, often adult young adult

11:40

children, and sometimes to a kind

11:42

of larger community who would sort

11:44

of come to her for guidance

11:47

and help. So soap operas got

11:49

their names because soap companies sponsored

11:51

them. Although, Erna never used the

11:54

term soap opera in her autobiography.

11:56

She preferred serial and once said

11:58

that the heart of the serial

12:01

is the exchange of feeling and

12:03

memories between two characters and that

12:06

any incident should not affect the

12:08

handful of characters but the whole

12:10

community. Over her four-decade career, Erna

12:13

wrote or created more than a

12:15

dozen daytime serials, a stunning amount.

12:17

Many old radio soaps are hard

12:20

to find and finding interviews of

12:22

her is even harder. I stumbled

12:24

on this, a very scratchy 1947

12:27

radio interview on the show Bob

12:29

Elson on the century. Erna responded

12:32

to his question about what average

12:34

daytime listeners want. Well I think

12:36

they like to see reflected more

12:39

or less their own problems, their

12:41

own conflicts, their own heartache, their

12:43

hopes and their own dreams. Like

12:46

we don't want everything happiness. Well

12:48

everything isn't happiness is it? When

12:55

we come back, Erna Phillips takes

12:57

the city and the country by

12:59

storm. This

13:08

W-B-E-Z podcast is supported by Yu

13:10

Chicago's Crown Family School of Social

13:12

Work Policy and Practice. Their master's

13:15

degree in social sector leadership and

13:17

non-profit management is designed for professionals

13:19

to examine today's social issues, whether

13:22

starting, changing, or advancing in their

13:24

career. Graduates emerge as leaders who

13:27

can make an impact in the

13:29

social sector. Applications open through June

13:31

1st at Crown School. Yu Chicago.EDU

13:34

slash SSL. W-B-E-Z is supported by

13:36

Chicago Humanities presenting its Spring Festival

13:38

on April 27th in Lakeview with

13:41

historians Heather Cox Richardson and Timothy

13:43

Snyder Jonathan Blitzer on immigration University

13:46

of Chicago professor Agnes Collard on

13:48

Socrates and documentaries unblocked Englewood by

13:50

Chicago's Tanika Lewis Johnson and beyond

13:53

closure on the 2013 Chicago public

13:55

school closures. Tickets and more conversations

13:57

on arts, culture, and current affairs

14:00

at Chicago humanities.org. urna Phillips did

14:02

not initially set out to appeal

14:05

to women. She was just writing

14:07

and writing what she knew, but

14:09

her essential characters had a great

14:12

appeal to women listeners. Let's be

14:14

clear, men listened to, as a

14:16

matter of fact, there are still

14:19

plenty of male fans of the

14:21

genre. Soap's scholar Elena Levine says

14:23

Erna was invested in traditional family

14:26

structures. In a lot of ways,

14:28

her shows told stories that were

14:31

somewhat traditional, conservative about those kinds

14:33

of relationships and people. But of

14:35

course, soap operas have to have

14:38

a lot of drama. And so

14:40

they would always be trouble in

14:42

those marriages and in those families.

14:45

But her really driving goal was

14:47

to sort of always return to

14:50

those sort of conventional nuclear family

14:52

structures and to... see the value

14:54

in them. I'm one of 10

14:57

children, the youngest of 10 children.

14:59

I see. And I had a

15:01

very wonderful mother and who had

15:04

a very wonderful character called Mother

15:06

Monaghan. Uh-huh. I'm free to dream.

15:09

She later became Mother Moran of

15:11

today's children. Ernest said she did

15:13

not consider herself well-versed in politics,

15:16

but was acutely aware that President

15:18

Roosevelt's New Deal was one of

15:20

the great reform movements. That captivated

15:23

her, so Mother Moran was a

15:25

member of the civic of the

15:27

civic club. a local political group.

15:30

She did not portray her as

15:32

an activist, but as a woman

15:35

who was informed and interested in

15:37

politics. Andrew Wyatt is a soap

15:39

historian based in Chicago. He has

15:42

studied how daytime serials became known

15:44

as soaps. The term soap opera

15:46

was popularized in the 1940s. Otherwise,

15:49

up until then, people usually call

15:51

them Washboard Weepers, Vishpian dramas, suffering

15:54

sawas, as. What was it? A

15:56

mat named melodromas? I think there

15:58

was one of... stories. By the

16:01

1950s Wyatt says a New Yorker

16:03

article criticizing Soaps began the Martin

16:05

Day stigma against the genre. It's

16:08

unclear if that bothered Erna. Erna

16:10

always said it was just like

16:13

daytime dramas or as she put

16:15

it, cereals are like ancient Greek

16:17

dramas where you have characters who

16:20

are not all bad or all

16:22

good. They all have their high

16:24

points, their low points, but you

16:27

understand where they're coming from. And

16:29

another thing too is that, you

16:31

know, let's face it, they can

16:34

be a little melodramatic, the cereals,

16:36

and at the same time, they're

16:39

not all that different from ancient

16:41

Greek drama. At one time early

16:43

on, Chicago was the Mecca for

16:46

the daytime serial. It dominated most

16:48

of daytime radio. 50. That's right,

16:50

5-0 were on the air and

16:53

most originated from Chicago. Three of

16:55

Ernest shows were consistently rated in

16:58

the top 10, and one was

17:00

usually number one. She was writing

17:02

high on her success. She earned

17:05

good money, negotiated with the big

17:07

boys in a male-dominated entertainment field.

17:09

Erner was a true businesswoman. But

17:12

foes saw dollar signs. She wrote

17:14

in her autobiography about a man

17:17

who sued her, claiming half-ownership of

17:19

one of her shows. His attorney

17:21

had clout. He was a boss

17:24

in the notorious Chicago Democratic machine.

17:26

She lost, but it didn't keep

17:28

her from writing. One thing to

17:31

keep in mind about her is

17:33

that she never actually learned to

17:35

type, despite writing millions of words

17:38

a year. Erna dictated her scripts

17:40

rapidly. Ken Corday's father, Ted Corday,

17:43

worked for Erna as a director.

17:45

The two of them created Days

17:47

of Our Lives in 1965. As

17:50

a child, I remember her coming

17:52

to New York annually to meet

17:54

with the Procter and Gamble people.

17:57

all the way from Chicago. Ernie

17:59

was brilliant. Now he is executive

18:02

producer of Days of Our Lives.

18:04

Her imagination. more than her life

18:06

experiences created her shows. And she

18:09

was very helpful with me sometimes

18:11

with short stories I had to

18:13

write in school. I would call

18:16

her and say, you know, what

18:18

do I do here, Erna? And

18:21

she'd say, oh, here's A, B,

18:23

C. And there was the story

18:25

for me. Tell me about why

18:28

did you know to call her

18:30

for your school assignments? My father

18:32

told me too. He said, well,

18:35

Ernest, the writer, not me. Call

18:37

Ernest and tell you're writing a

18:39

story about a pigeon or an

18:42

orange or, you know, gosh, knows

18:44

what. And I'd give her the

18:47

beginning in the middle. She'd give

18:49

me the rest of it in

18:51

the end. Ernest was a pioneer

18:54

in her personal life, too. She

18:56

never married and adopted two children.

18:58

Pretty bold in the 1940s. She

19:01

moved to the West Coast but

19:03

felt people looked down on Midwesterners,

19:06

so she returned to Chicago. Erna

19:08

toggled back and forth over whether

19:10

she even wanted to be married.

19:13

She dated, she had an affair,

19:15

but at the end of the

19:17

day, she loved her independence. Some

19:20

of that tension spilled over into

19:22

her writing, Andrew Wyatt says. She

19:25

was trying to explore how divorce,

19:27

in a woman, raising a child,

19:29

you need both parents, or a

19:32

masculine in a... feminine force. But

19:34

that was definitely from a lot

19:36

of trauma, like the fact that

19:39

she lost her father at the

19:41

age of eight, which did a

19:43

number on her, but she always

19:46

wrote very strong women nevertheless, and

19:48

she always wrote very strong men.

19:51

But she was concerned because she

19:53

really felt that the bulwark of

19:55

America was a strong family. Erna

19:58

believed, full-hearted lead that if every

20:00

household had loving parents demonstrate unconditional

20:02

love were always there for their

20:05

kids There will probably be no

20:07

problems in next generation because she

20:10

really felt that Bad behavior and

20:12

adults started at home always. You

20:14

know, that's what she was getting

20:17

at. You know, she did stand

20:19

up to men, though. You know,

20:21

you wouldn't call her a feminist,

20:24

but she was very stubborn nevertheless.

20:26

When we come back, Erna Phillips

20:29

goes to television. Elena Levine says,

20:31

among her quirks, Erna was also

20:33

reportedly a hypochondriac. She had various

20:36

kinds of mental and physical health

20:38

issues, became kind of... obsessed with

20:40

medicine and doctors. And I think

20:43

a lot of the kind of

20:45

medical and hospital-based storylines in soap

20:47

opera then and through till the

20:50

present are kind of thanks to

20:52

her sort of interest in that

20:55

world. In 1937, Erna created The

20:57

Guiding Light. She said it was

20:59

at first a tribute to two

21:02

nurses who she felt were responsible

21:04

for saving her life when she

21:06

was desperately ill. She lived a

21:09

few blocks away from the People's

21:11

Church in Chicago. That church, by

21:14

the way, is still around today.

21:16

The pastor was Preston Bradley. Erna

21:18

was inspired by the non-denominational church.

21:21

She created a show focused on

21:23

a man named Reverend Rutledge, who

21:25

was sort of just that sort

21:28

of... moral authority figure for a

21:30

community. And again, the radio serials

21:33

often had these figures. Sometimes they

21:35

were women, sometimes they were men.

21:37

And he was definitely that kind

21:40

of figure. And I think both

21:42

he and perhaps the church that

21:44

he was part of were supposed

21:47

to literally be the guiding lights

21:49

for the people around them to

21:51

help them sort of see the

21:54

way towards a just and happy

21:56

existence. And so a lot of.

21:59

The show initially was about the

22:01

community and the people in the

22:03

community and the kinds of troubles

22:06

they had and the way that

22:08

he tried to help them. On

22:10

the guiding light, Erna named the

22:13

working class neighborhood. five points. A

22:15

melting pot of white ethnics, Italian,

22:18

German, Irish, Jewish, and Swedish families.

22:20

Here's an episode in 1940 call

22:22

Charles and Rose have dinner. I

22:25

don't think that I know how

22:27

to be dishonor. Really? Then you,

22:29

when you must have answers to

22:32

those questions. Rose, after our last

22:34

meeting, I made up my mind

22:37

that I wouldn't, but I couldn't

22:39

phone you with you. And you

22:41

did. In her autobiography, Erner wrote

22:44

how she was solely responsible for

22:46

introducing something that came to annoy

22:48

her and probably annoyed many listeners

22:51

and viewers. Oregon Music as background.

22:53

That came to be because Mary,

22:55

Ruthage's daughter, was an organist at

22:58

his church. With the guiding light,

23:00

she created characters that came from

23:03

widely different social, cultural, and economic

23:05

backgrounds. The guiding light is significant

23:07

because it's the only radio soap

23:10

to transition to television. The network

23:12

was CBS. The year was 1952.

23:14

And now the Guiding Lights, created

23:17

by Erna Phillips. It was canceled

23:19

in 2009. But it's important to

23:22

note that the soap tackled social

23:24

issues like no other program of

23:26

its time and paved the way

23:29

for Erna Phillips' proteges in Chicago.

23:31

That's on the next episode of

23:33

Making Stories Without End. Stories Without

23:36

End is a production of W.B.C.

23:38

Chicago and part of the NPR

23:41

network. I'm your host and writer

23:43

Natalie Moore. The show was produced

23:45

by Hina Shavastova, edited by Arielvan

23:48

Cleve. It's mixed by Haley Blumquist.

23:50

We had music and production assistants

23:52

from Justin Bull and... Miska. Thanks

23:55

Thanks to Brendan

23:57

Bannesack. Our Our executive

23:59

producer is Tracy

24:02

Brown. Brown. Special

24:04

thanks to Radio Eccles Audio

24:07

and the University

24:09

of Wisconsin Wisconsin-Madison Archives.