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summer. Shannon

1:21

Gilbert. If it wasn't

1:24

for her, Rex Heurmann might still be

1:26

a free man. For

1:49

12 years, Suffolk County Police prevented the

1:51

release of this 911 call,

1:53

which Shannon made in her final hours.

2:00

No, no, stop it, please.

2:03

Stop it, please. Please stop it.

2:05

Please stop it, no, please. Stop it.

2:08

Please stop it, no. We fix that. We

2:10

fix that, please. You stop it, please. Stop

2:13

it, please. Please stop

2:15

it, please. What are you guys doing to me?

2:17

What are you doing to me? Stop it. Please

2:20

get ready. Law

2:23

enforcement has classified her death

2:25

as undetermined. Without

2:28

an investigation, their prevailing theory is

2:30

that she died accidentally without foul

2:32

play. Shannon was murdered. There

2:34

is virtually no

2:37

doubt. We

2:39

launch our deep dive episodes with a look

2:41

at the case that started it all and

2:44

ask one simple question. Is

2:47

there enough here to have this case re-examined?

2:51

No. From

3:04

I.D. and Joke Productions, this

3:07

is Unraveled, Long

3:10

Island Serial Killer. Captivated.

3:16

To have your attention held by

3:18

something extremely interesting, synonyms include

3:20

fascinated, consumed, and yes, obsessed.

3:24

It's the most accurate word I

3:26

could use to describe how this story has monopolized

3:29

my life for the last 14

3:31

years and that of the true crime world. Investigators

3:34

are once again seriously searching the site of a

3:36

gruesome find, three more bodies than

3:39

a possible serial killer case. Police have

3:41

found the bodies of eight women along a stretch of

3:43

road on Long Island. 10 bodies

3:45

uncovered. And whoever's responsible

3:47

is still out there. Being

3:51

born and raised on Long Island, I was

3:53

living in Los Angeles. when

4:00

the victims were discovered along Ocean Parkway. And

4:03

yet the impact was just as great as if I

4:05

was still there. When a

4:07

grade school friend got arrested and his

4:09

battle with a then Suffolk County Police

4:11

Chief, James Burke, kicked off, it occupied

4:13

many of my days and nights. Yo,

4:16

yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, life

4:18

is first. Like 9, 15, I'm hoping that I

4:20

would just be able to call you. I'm just

4:22

like really pissed off right now. Got my whole

4:24

case. What followed

4:26

were jailhouse calls, intense research, and

4:28

an investigation into a dark world

4:31

on Long Island that I had

4:33

been lucky to escape. For

4:36

the last seven years, I've actively worked

4:38

to shine a spotlight on the injustice

4:40

these women endured. And

4:42

almost a year ago, with the arrest of

4:44

Rex Huerman, we finally got some light in

4:46

the story. Now

4:48

to the big story this morning, the arrest

4:51

in the Gilgal Beach murders case on Long

4:53

Island. After more than a decade,

4:55

it's the break that investigators and families

4:57

have been waiting for. The

4:59

accused Gilgal Beach serial killer Rex

5:01

Huerman. He's appearing in court on

5:03

Long Island. As we

5:06

start a series of deep dive episodes into some

5:08

of the most compelling aspects of the Long Island

5:10

serial killer case, I'm excited to touch on some

5:12

of the things that I've learned but haven't been

5:14

able to share. If you

5:16

haven't listened to our earliest episodes, the ones

5:19

we produced back in 2020, you're

5:21

doing yourself a disservice. The

5:23

history of this case is sordid, twisted,

5:26

and it must be fully understood to

5:28

really grasp the enormity of this case. If

5:31

you're not knowledgeable about Suffolk County, you

5:33

think it's the Hamptons. It's not. It's

5:36

the Amityville horror. That

5:38

easily could have been me. There

5:40

are girls that are not lucky. I was

5:42

really lucky. The FBI was

5:44

not involved in the Gilgal Beach investigation. They

5:47

had been removed by then, Chief Burke.

5:50

Somebody's just keeping the cover up going. We're

5:54

going to do deep dives into Rex

5:56

Huerman. The victims. Other serial killers that

5:58

may be related. as well as

6:00

the players involved in this saga. But

6:03

first, we begin where it all

6:05

started with Shannon Gilbert, Joseph Brewer,

6:07

and Michael Pack. I'm

6:10

not interested in reiterating what's already been

6:12

done. My focus today is

6:14

very simple. What do the

6:16

911 calls tell us about what happened on that

6:18

fateful night in May of 2010? What

6:21

proof is there that drugs may have been involved,

6:24

if any? Where is the

6:26

money? And why were no charges ever filed?

6:29

And we'll look into the alleged connections

6:31

between Shannon and Rex Heuermann. In

6:35

the early morning hours of

6:38

May 1st, 2010, Shannon

6:41

Gilbert, a sex worker, traveled from New

6:44

York City with her driver, Michael Pack,

6:46

to the exclusive community of Oak Beach

6:48

on Long Island. She had

6:50

an appointment with a client named Joseph Brewer. Shannon

6:53

ended up making a 23-minute 911 call that night, running

6:58

away from the Brewer house before vanishing into

7:00

the night. Ah!

7:09

You are here, kids. But

7:12

Shannon's mom, Mary, would not go quietly, and

7:14

her fight for her daughter led an off-duty

7:16

Suffolk County Police Department officer to take a

7:18

search dog out to a stretch of land

7:21

along Ocean Parkway near Oak Beach. And

7:23

the rest is history. The

7:27

Gilgo Four victims were found first in December of

7:29

2010. Six

7:31

more victims were discovered in April of

7:33

2011. And then finally, Shannon

7:36

was located in December of 2011. If it

7:38

wasn't for Shannon, we

7:41

may never have known of a Long Island serial

7:43

killer at all. The Suffolk County Police Department was

7:45

never resolute on Shannon's death. Her

7:48

cause of death was

7:50

undetermined, or referred to as death

7:52

by misadventure. The theory they

7:55

hold is that, for whatever reason, Shannon

7:58

ran into the marsh at the edge

8:00

of Oak Beach. Beach and died there.

8:02

The elements from wind, water, and beyond

8:05

left little to be found other than

8:07

slightly scattered skeletal remains. While

8:09

the Suffolk County Police Department does have a

8:11

page for Shannon on the Long Island Serial

8:13

Killer website, they never seem to believe that

8:15

she was murdered. And with

8:17

the arrest of Rex Youerman, Shannon's case

8:20

is slipping from the conversation. But should

8:22

it? Where do you think

8:24

Suffolk County Police Department right now places

8:27

the Shannon-Gilbert case in terms

8:29

of priority? Low priority to

8:32

none. And do you feel

8:34

like it's always been that way? I believe

8:36

it's always been that way. That's John

8:38

Ray, attorney for the estate of Shannon

8:41

Gilbert. What do you think happened

8:43

to Shannon? Shannon was murdered. There

8:46

is virtually no

8:48

doubt. For

8:51

years, John Ray has been investigating the

8:53

disappearance and death of Shannon Gilbert. He's

8:56

conducted hours of depositions, collected boxes

8:58

of evidence, and led a decade-long

9:00

court battle to get her 911

9:02

call and others from the evening

9:04

she disappeared released to the public.

9:07

For John Ray and for Shannon's family, the

9:09

goal is very simple. Have

9:11

the official manner of death change to

9:13

homicide. And get a fresh

9:15

set of eyes from Suffolk County Police Department

9:18

to re-examine the evidence. But

9:20

is it a wild goose chase? The

9:23

leading theory amongst law enforcement is that

9:26

Shannon voluntarily came to Brewer's house to

9:28

engage in a sex work transaction and

9:30

may have consumed drugs that possibly had

9:33

a negative effect on her. They

9:35

infer that in a state of paranoia,

9:38

she called 911, fled

9:40

the residence, ran through

9:42

the exclusive community, fled from

9:44

her driver, knocked on several

9:46

doors for help, but kept running until

9:48

she disappeared. Believing that

9:50

her state of consciousness may have been impacted

9:52

by drugs, she then removed her

9:54

clothes and ran into the bramble where she

9:56

somehow died without any foul play. Plausible

9:59

for Shannon. But is there evidence

10:01

that would prove this theory false? Let's

10:03

start with the money. I've

10:06

interviewed scores of sex

10:08

workers. It is axiomatic

10:10

in that trade that

10:12

a sex worker does not

10:14

engage in a tryst without being paid.

10:18

They don't wait until the end

10:20

for their money. Yet, there's not

10:22

a scintilla of evidence as to

10:24

what Shannon was paid, when, and Pat

10:27

denies that he

10:29

ever saw any money exchanged and he does so

10:31

under oath. And yet,

10:33

it was a three-hour crisp that was

10:35

arranged. That's not possible.

10:37

When Shannon's pocketbook is found, there's money

10:40

in it, but it's a modest amount

10:42

of money. Burr admits under oath

10:44

that he did have sex with her. Yet,

10:46

no money was exchanged. That's

10:48

not possible. It does

10:51

seem unlikely that Shannon, who was engaging in sex

10:53

work, would go all the way out to Long

10:55

Island, an hour and a half drive from New

10:57

York City, spend three hours with a client, and

10:59

yet no money is exchanged. In

11:02

fact, in his deposition, Michael Pack talks about Shannon

11:04

getting the call from Brewer that night and was

11:06

asked what the agreement was. Pack

11:09

states, quote, I think it was 500 for

11:11

two hours, end quote. So,

11:14

was money exchanged or not? Pack

11:16

usually got paid at the end of the night,

11:18

so when he left Oak Beach after not finding

11:20

Shannon, it's believable he could have given up on

11:22

his cut of the money. Did

11:24

Shannon spend three hours with Brewer without

11:26

getting paid first? Could be. Did

11:29

everything go south before the transaction and

11:31

money exchange was completed? Possibly.

11:33

And then there's door number three,

11:36

the possibility that a fear of

11:38

incrimination stopped either Pack or Brewer

11:40

from admitting to the transaction. Hiring

11:43

sex workers was and still is illegal

11:45

in New York state. Of

11:47

course, even if there was money exchanged,

11:50

that doesn't necessarily mean there's complicity in

11:52

her death. So

11:54

what about drugs? Was Shannon provided with any

11:56

drugs? Were they able

11:58

to detect whether there were... drugs in

12:00

Shannon's system? There were

12:02

no discernible drugs in Shannon's

12:04

system in the small amount of

12:07

skin and hair that

12:09

was left on her body. Most of

12:12

it was skeleton. But you

12:15

can't detect ordinarily the presence of a drug

12:17

in a hair sample or a skin sample

12:19

if the drugs were just ingested a few

12:21

hours before or a day before. You have

12:23

to wait for it to work its way

12:25

into those things. And so they couldn't

12:28

test for whether she had used a drug

12:30

that night or not. But what they could

12:32

test for was whether or not she had

12:34

ordinarily drugs in her system as in cocaine,

12:37

heroin, and the like. Morphines.

12:40

None of them were found. So

12:42

the idea that Shannon had a drug addiction is

12:45

just not true. Do you

12:47

recall what Pack said during his

12:49

deposition about whether or not he'd

12:51

ever seen Shannon doing drugs? Anything like that?

12:54

Yeah, he claimed that Shannon would do drugs

12:57

with customers, which most of the sex workers do.

12:59

It's part of the deal. But she

13:02

wasn't a regular drug user. Brewer

13:04

says no drugs were exchanged

13:06

or done by either of them

13:08

that night. He testifies. Pack testifies

13:10

he saw no drugs and

13:12

had no involvement in drugs at night

13:14

as well. Now, do you want to

13:17

believe them? That's up to you. I don't know. In

13:20

the deposition, her driver, Michael Pack, was

13:22

directly asked if he ever saw Shannon

13:24

do drugs. And here's what he said.

13:27

Quote, I never saw her do any drugs.

13:29

I never saw her smoke marijuana or any

13:31

drugs. I just saw her drinking

13:33

alcohol. I don't even know if it was alcohol,

13:36

but I'm guessing. End quote. It's

13:38

alleged that Shannon and Brewer left Oak Beach

13:40

that night together a couple of hours

13:42

before the 911 call. And

13:44

there has been speculation that they went to

13:46

procure drugs. But Brewer and

13:49

Pack explained that trip differently to John Ray. There

13:52

had been a call to CVS

13:54

Pharmacy from Shannon's phone round about

13:56

3 o'clock. Pack claimed that Shannon

13:58

called Pack and asked to drive

14:00

her to CVS at that time of the morning.

14:03

He refused, so Brewer took her. Brewer,

14:06

and she left, we have no proof of

14:09

when they left. We have no

14:11

evidence when they came back. Brewer

14:14

claims that they drove to CVS Pharmacy,

14:17

drove around in the parking lot, and

14:19

then left and never went inside. He

14:22

testified that Shannon called

14:25

and wanted to buy

14:27

some fluids, you know, creams, you

14:29

know, KY kind of thing. If

14:32

she were doing her normal work, she

14:34

brings a bag with her, and she did have a

14:36

bag, and in the bag is when they bring their

14:38

implements. And those implements always include

14:41

KY cream or something like it. So

14:43

for her to need to go and

14:45

buy KY cream

14:47

in the middle of the, or

14:49

early morning hours, is absurd. Something else,

14:51

in other words, was really going on,

14:54

and nobody's telling the truth about what it

14:57

was. The late night outing

14:59

adds to the mystery of this case, as John

15:01

Ray points out. From

15:03

what I understand with sex workers, when

15:05

the man ejaculates, that's the

15:07

end of the tryst. Whether it takes

15:09

10 minutes or an hour, that's

15:11

the end of the tryst, and everybody goes

15:14

home. So apparently that's

15:16

not what happened here, and Brewer claims

15:18

that he got oral sex from her

15:21

earlier on in the night. So

15:25

what are they doing for the rest of the time? Fair

15:29

question. Shannon and Brewer were

15:31

not friends. From what we know, he was

15:33

a first-time client. And the drive

15:35

back to the city was a long one. Why

15:37

would Shannon want to hang out, especially

15:39

if drugs were not involved, as claimed by

15:42

Brewer? And if drugs

15:44

weren't part of the night, how do we

15:46

explain Shannon's behavior, other than something in that

15:48

house really scaring her? Next,

15:52

let's go to the 911 tapes and

15:55

see if we can find some answers. On

16:07

Friday, May 13, 2022, 12 years after Shannon Gilbert went missing, Suffolk County

16:10

Police finally

16:18

released that 911 call that she

16:20

made on that fateful night. It

16:22

was John Ray, attorney for the Shannon Gilbert

16:24

estate that led the charge. Here's

16:27

John from a couple of years ago, when he

16:29

first got the right to listen to the calls

16:31

long before the public release. I

16:33

asked for those 911 calls to

16:36

be given to us. The police said that they wouldn't

16:38

give them up because there was

16:40

an active investigation going on. So

16:43

I had to go to court to subpoena them.

16:46

And immediately the county said,

16:49

you're not getting the tapes. And we had to fight it

16:51

out. And that fight took

16:53

years. I won the litigation to get them

16:55

the police department refused for

16:57

years to give them up. They finally

16:59

had to, they did. The

17:02

refusal just added to the mystery and cover

17:04

up theories. I'd also

17:06

like to point out that the tapes were released to

17:08

the public after District Attorney

17:10

Ray Tierney took office and after

17:12

Rodney Harrison was appointed as police

17:14

commissioner. And with the

17:17

benefit of hindsight, we now also know

17:19

that they had already identified Rex Heuerman

17:21

as a suspect in the murders of

17:23

the Gilgo Four. Perhaps that

17:25

bolstered their belief that Shannon's death

17:27

was unrelated to the other victims

17:29

found along Ocean Parkway. Regardless,

17:32

we now have the tapes. Part

17:35

of the mystery surrounding these tapes was a

17:37

2012 letter that then

17:39

Suffolk County detective Vincent Stephens

17:42

sent to Newsday claiming

17:44

that he'd heard the 23 minute tape. In

17:47

essence, he stated there was much to

17:49

do about nothing. We

17:51

spoke to him before the tapes were released. You

17:54

can hear that conversation in episode six. And

17:57

he stood by his assessment of the 911 call. So

18:00

let's see if you think his statements hold up.

18:03

Quote, the 911 operator tried

18:05

several times to get Gilbert's

18:07

location. At one point, she mentioned

18:10

she was near Jones Beach. End quote. All

18:32

right, let me connect to the state police. Stay on the

18:34

line. Quote, in

18:36

the house at Oak Beach, Gilbert was not

18:38

about to be murdered. Her demeanor on the

18:40

tape was calm. End quote. State

18:43

police. Yeah, there's somebody after me.

18:46

I'm sorry? There's somebody after me. Where

18:48

are you? There's somebody after

18:50

me. Quote, Gilbert never

18:53

said she was at Oak Beach. It's

18:55

hard to respond to a call when the person

18:57

calling doesn't know where he or she is. Where

19:01

are you, ma'am? I don't know. You're

19:04

driving right now? No, I'm inside

19:07

the house. I'm sorry?

19:09

I'm inside the house. What

19:11

house? I don't know. Can you truth

19:13

why I am? I'm sorry? You

19:15

can't truth why I am. No,

19:17

I can't. Quote, you can

19:20

hear male voices on the tape and they

19:22

are calm. End quote. Please,

19:24

can you show the door? No,

19:27

time to show. Please. Please.

19:32

Please, bro. So

19:35

that way, please. Come

19:38

on, let's go. Come on, we're all outside. I'm just like, fuck,

19:42

we're outside all the way. All

19:44

the fuck, we're all outside. Fuck. No, please.

19:48

We're all so fucked. Please, come on.

19:51

Please. Come on. Why?

19:57

Why? County, are you on the...

20:01

quote at no time during this call

20:03

was she desperate end quote quote

20:30

from what I heard on the

20:32

call Gilbert was not

20:35

speaking as if she were in danger end

20:38

quote here

20:48

are a few more sound ups where Shannon

20:50

clearly feels like she's in danger where

21:01

are you I

21:05

want to tell me it's

21:27

unclear whether she'd screamed while she was still in

21:29

the house or if she left by then

21:32

but she starts running through the Oak Beach neighborhood

21:46

a few minutes later about point two miles

21:48

from the Brewer house Shannon then gets to

21:51

Gus Coletti's house you can

21:53

hear her knocking it's in the early

21:55

morning hours and you hear him open the door and

21:57

talk to her she's out of breath Cameron...

22:03

Michael... Shannon.

22:11

Pokin' cook. tLch...

22:26

She's very fancy. Huh?

22:31

Hello? Hello?

22:38

You... You're cute. You

22:41

are cute. I

22:44

can hear you now. Don't keep yourself out of

22:46

it. Where you going? Wait

22:52

a minute. Where you going? Where you going?

22:55

Once Shannon runs off, Gus calls 911. Here's

22:59

that call. So I'm a little

23:01

bitch in the association. There's

23:03

a young girl about 14 years old

23:05

running around here screaming. And there's some guy trying

23:07

to follow her. What's the address, Theo? I'm that

23:09

s***. Alright, you have a

23:12

description of the girl or the boy? The girl

23:14

is about 14 years old, got

23:16

blond hair, very small. The

23:18

boy, I can't tell, he was into like

23:21

a suburban. What color?

23:24

Uh, black. Did

23:26

you happen to get a plate number or anything? No, I didn't. According

23:29

to the police, Michael Pack did drive a

23:32

black SUV that night. Meanwhile,

23:34

Shannon runs down another street, about

23:37

350 yards towards the water to

23:39

yet another house. Possibly where she

23:41

sees a light on. At 5.30am,

23:44

Barbara Brennan calls 911. Listen

23:47

carefully, you can hear Shannon knocking.

23:50

Suffolk Police, 875, what is

23:52

the location of your emergency?

23:55

Uh, 40. S***, some woman

23:57

is knocking at my door. What town are

23:59

you in? Oak Beach Association.

24:01

She says she's in danger.

24:04

Do you know her or no? No, I don't. I'm

24:07

not letting her in. She's banging

24:09

on your door now? Yes. Did

24:11

she say what kind of danger? No. Oh.

24:15

And we live in a dated community, and I have

24:17

an elderly mother here. All

24:19

right, I'll get somebody right over there, okay? Okay,

24:21

thank you. After that, 911 operators

24:24

never hear from Shannon again. Hello?

24:31

She didn't steal it, but that's

24:34

what it sounded like. Shannon

24:48

wouldn't be found for more than a year and a half

24:50

later. And she was less than 400 yards

24:53

or four football fields away. I'm

24:56

not sure why the Suffolk County Police Department

24:58

would downplay the importance of these calls for

25:00

12 years. Even

25:02

if Shannon died as a theorize

25:04

she did, these calls beg further

25:06

examination. The two words

25:09

that Shannon says the most on this call

25:11

are why and please. Why?

25:14

Why? Please. Please.

25:17

Please. Why? Please.

25:20

Please, bro. Stop it,

25:23

please. But

25:25

while that may have some stipulate that Shannon

25:27

could be out of it, maybe she's under

25:29

the influence of something, there are plenty of

25:31

moments where she seems very lucid. What's

25:34

your name? Shannon Gilbert.

25:38

What's your name? Shannon

25:41

Gilbert. I

25:44

wanted to get Dr. Angela Arnold's take on it. Dr.

25:47

Arnold is a psychiatrist with decades

25:49

of experience, specializing in women's mental

25:51

health. I had not

25:53

heard the 911 calls until I asked her to listen to

25:55

them for the purpose of this interview. was

26:00

trying to get help and she

26:03

made the assumption that

26:05

they could find out where she was because

26:08

it was obvious she had no idea where

26:10

she was. So that was scary. She

26:12

ran to another person's house,

26:15

then she left that house, then she went to

26:18

the woman's house. So I can't

26:20

believe that she was out of it

26:23

to a point that she didn't know what

26:25

she was doing, to go and knock on

26:27

people's doors and ask for help. So I

26:30

feel like she was fearful for her life

26:32

at that point, right? Was

26:34

that a rational fear or

26:36

was it paranoia? If

26:38

we're asking if it was paranoia,

26:41

the follow-up to that was

26:43

the paranoia induced by something.

26:47

I would assume that when she got there, she

26:49

was going there for a job to make money, right?

26:52

You've got to imagine that when she

26:54

got there, she was okay, but something

26:56

happened to make her very, very nervous.

26:58

And that's why she called 911. She

27:02

said, they're coming to get me. And she

27:04

was very quiet about it. And

27:07

then she wouldn't say anything for a

27:09

while. Alexis, I don't believe it was

27:11

paranoia. Did you note anything else

27:14

about the men you heard in the

27:16

background? I found it very

27:18

difficult to hear them, but

27:20

there was a familiarity between them

27:23

that bothered me. And

27:25

that was very obvious to me. Did

27:27

they seem calm to you? Did they seem like

27:31

they were trying to help? No, I

27:33

didn't get the feeling they were trying to help her. I

27:36

got the feeling they were discussing what

27:38

they were going to do. Michael Pack,

27:40

Joseph Brewer. Their story that the police

27:43

claim to buy was that

27:46

they were both trying to get

27:48

her out of this house, calm

27:51

her down, get her back in the car so they

27:53

could leave. That's sort of what

27:56

they claim they were communicating

27:58

about. Their story. puts

28:01

just enough doubt in everybody's mind,

28:04

doesn't it? It's just a good enough

28:06

story to put enough doubt in our

28:08

minds. I don't believe it.

28:10

I believe she's the victim of so many

28:13

things in this case. I

28:15

can't put my finger on whether she was

28:17

killed or if she fell down running away

28:19

from them and died, but the fact that

28:21

she was unclothed, that tends to lead me

28:24

more to believe that somebody killed her. The

28:29

911 call is not as clear cut as the

28:31

Suffolk County Police Department would like us to think

28:33

that it is, especially since

28:35

we do not have evidence of drugs

28:37

being present during the encounter. So

28:42

when did the police get involved? Were

28:45

packed and Brewer thoroughly investigated? And

28:47

why were charges never filed? Next,

28:50

we hear from Brewer, go through

28:52

the depositions, and also take a

28:55

closer look at a supposed Shannon

28:57

Gilbert Rex Euerman connection. Whereas

29:09

many of the ocean Parkway victims

29:11

vanished, sometimes months before they were

29:14

reported missing, Shannon Gilbert was

29:16

on everyone's radar immediately. She

29:18

knocked on two doors with each resident making

29:21

their own 911 calls and

29:23

her family, especially her mom Mary, became

29:26

actively involved in the search for her

29:28

within days. However,

29:31

Michael Pack, her driver, and

29:33

Joseph Brewer, the client, seemingly

29:35

stayed quiet. That

29:37

was until February of

29:40

2022, when Joseph Brewer went on

29:42

a local talk radio show called Breaking

29:44

It Down with Frank McKay on 103.9

29:46

LI News Radio. Releasing

29:52

this in context, this interview took

29:54

place after District Attorney Ray Tierney

29:56

took office, but before the 911

29:58

tapes were released. released to the

30:00

public. We wouldn't

30:02

categorize this interview as particularly

30:04

hard-hitting, but Frank McKay

30:06

was able to get some interesting new tidbits,

30:09

including this soundbite from Joseph Brewer, about

30:11

how he found out Shannon was actually

30:13

missing. The next morning I got

30:16

a phone call. Somebody asked for Shannon. I

30:18

said, oh no, you got the wrong number. And

30:20

I said, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait,

30:22

Shannon, Shannon Gilbert, the girl that was here

30:24

last night. I said, oh, oh, oh, that

30:26

guy said, oh, well, she left. And also

30:29

in the voice of the other end of the

30:31

phone said, no, no, she didn't

30:33

leave. She ran away from my car, was banging

30:35

on the doors. I immediately called 911.

30:38

An officer came down South County

30:40

and they didn't want to file

30:42

a missing person's report. Throughout

30:45

this interview, Joseph Brewer maintains his

30:47

innocence, proclaims his empathy for

30:49

the victim's families, and insists

30:51

he cooperated with police every step of

30:54

the way. I volunteered everything.

30:56

They had full, you

30:58

know, freedom to my house, my car, everything, DNA.

31:01

Did you think about lawyering up? I said, no,

31:03

you're my lawyers to the police because they wanted

31:05

the same thing I want. They wanted the truth.

31:08

I know I didn't hurt anybody. I want

31:10

to say I feel so sorry for these

31:13

families and the parents of these girls. And

31:15

I would do anything to help them get

31:17

answers. While

31:21

Joseph Brewer may not have lawyered up when police

31:24

got involved in 2010, by the time he sat

31:27

for his deposition with John Ray on October

31:29

20th of 2014, he

31:32

very much was represented by counsel. In

31:35

fact, to almost all questions related

31:37

to his interactions with Shannon Gilbert,

31:39

Brewer responded with, quote, on advice of

31:42

my attorney, I plead the fifth, end

31:44

quote. Of course, he

31:46

could be pleading the fifth solely because the

31:48

actual act of soliciting Shannon for sex is

31:51

a crime. Most of

31:53

Brewer's interview with Frank McKay was focused

31:55

on Peter Hackett, the other resident in

31:57

Oak Beach, whose actions propelled him to

31:59

the top. of the suspect list. Joseph

32:02

Brewer sounds like he very much

32:04

believes Peter Hackett should have been,

32:06

or should now, be further investigated.

32:09

And anyone who has spent even a little

32:11

bit of time reading up on the Shannon

32:13

Gilbert case will be familiar with the name

32:16

Peter Hackett. Honestly, we could

32:18

probably do an entire episode on him

32:20

alone. Is Peter Hackett a

32:22

killer who couldn't help but draw attention to

32:24

himself? Or is Peter Hackett

32:27

a bumbling neighborhood busybody who

32:29

just couldn't help but stick his nose

32:31

in the situation that merely made him

32:33

look guilty? Perhaps that's a

32:35

topic for a future deep dive. If

32:39

you get a chance to listen to the rest

32:41

of the Frank McKay interview with Joseph Brewer, and

32:43

if you have any thoughts on him or his

32:46

Peter Hackett theories, I would love to hear them.

32:49

For this episode, we wanna focus on whether the

32:51

911 calls and the

32:53

two individuals we know for sure had

32:55

contact with Shannon that night, deserve further

32:58

examination. Here is my

33:00

follow-up interview with attorney John Ray. Pack

33:03

claims after he drives around for a

33:05

short time looking for Shannon and he

33:07

doesn't see her, so

33:09

then he decides to leave. He

33:11

never called to look for Shannon. There's

33:13

no record whatsoever that he ever called

33:15

to look for her. The

33:17

only reason he's back involved in Shannon's case

33:19

the very next day is because

33:22

Alie Diaz, who

33:25

is Shannon's boyfriend, calls

33:27

Pack and says, where is my girlfriend?

33:32

Shannon's boyfriend was the first to question

33:34

where she was. That

33:37

question ultimately prompted the search that led

33:40

to the discovery of the victims associated

33:42

with the Long Island Serial Killer case.

33:45

Unfortunately, this was the same

33:48

man who years before her

33:50

disappearance, beat her in a domestic

33:52

violence incident to the point that

33:54

she needed a plate surgically inserted into her

33:56

face. That leads me

33:58

to a big observation. that I want to make

34:01

here. Shannon was clearly

34:03

in distress on these 911 calls, and

34:06

all Brewer seemed to care about was getting her

34:08

out of his house. Pack

34:10

was responsible for driving Shannon out to

34:12

Long Island, over an hour from

34:14

where she called home. And knowing

34:16

she's panicked, screaming and running in the

34:19

neighborhood, he just leaves. In

34:22

terms of the search for Shannon, it's heartbreaking

34:24

that the only person looking for her at

34:26

that point is her boyfriend who

34:28

broke her jaw. The

34:30

marsh next to Oak Beach is about 27 acres, and

34:34

search teams missed Shannon. It

34:36

wasn't until seven months later when

34:39

an off-duty officer and a service dog

34:41

stumbled upon the remains of the Gilgo

34:43

Four. After that, law

34:45

enforcement increased their efforts and ultimately

34:47

recovered Shannon over a year later.

34:50

More with John Rae. Is

34:53

it possible that Joe Brewer is

34:55

just like, not a great

34:57

guy? Obviously, no consideration

35:00

for Shannon, but there's no foul play.

35:03

He certainly is a

35:05

part of the entire incident

35:08

because he brought her there. He

35:10

arranged for the tryst. He's

35:13

the one who had sex with her, and

35:15

he's the one that tried to

35:17

drive her away, according to the

35:20

voices on tape, to drive

35:22

her away from his house. Don't you

35:24

think that it should have

35:26

been the duty of the police over

35:29

all these years to have investigated

35:31

these questions and obtained answers to

35:33

them? Why do you think neither

35:36

of them were charged with anything in relation

35:38

to this evening? Both

35:40

of them could easily have been

35:42

charged with felonies. They could have

35:44

been turned over to the FBI

35:46

because the sex trafficking

35:48

for that evening took Shannon from

35:51

Jersey City, another state, to

35:53

Manhattan, and then out to Oak Beach.

35:56

So they crossed state lines for the purpose

35:58

of engaging in prostitution. They could

36:00

have been hit with federal crimes, the feds could have

36:02

been called in. They weren't, we

36:05

know why, because Chief Burke would not

36:07

allow the investigation to go forward. He

36:09

rewarded it at every stage.

36:12

These two men could have been

36:14

arrested by the Suffolk County Police

36:17

Department for engaging in prostitution and

36:19

soliciting and actually selling the girl.

36:22

And that's particularly true in

36:24

Pack's case because he was already

36:27

a convicted human trafficker and

36:29

had done time in federal prison for

36:31

it. So it's absurd that

36:33

they weren't arrested and no

36:35

good reason is given for it. Pack

36:38

was convicted about seven years earlier of

36:40

a felony charge, misuse of a passport,

36:43

in connection with flying an undocumented

36:45

individual from China into the United

36:47

States. He claims he

36:49

was young and naive and thought that

36:51

he was only accompanying them as a

36:54

translator. True or false, we

36:56

only have his word on that. I

36:59

did reach out to the then Chief

37:01

of Detectives, Dominic Verone, to see if

37:03

he had any insight as to why

37:05

there wouldn't have been any charges filed

37:07

either against Michael Pack or Joseph Brewer.

37:10

He texted back, quote, your

37:13

question would best be answered by a

37:15

prosecutor. They would have had knowledge

37:17

as to whether there was enough evidence to make

37:19

those charges. It would be difficult

37:21

without Shannon. It would

37:23

also have not been prudent until Shannon's

37:25

body was found. An autopsy

37:27

was conducted and investigators were fairly

37:30

certain that Brewer or Pack had

37:32

not murdered Shannon, end quote. And

37:36

that does make sense. Prosecutors

37:38

like to make sure that they have the

37:40

evidence they need to make the biggest charges

37:42

stick before they would consider lesser charges. That

37:46

said, we also know that when

37:48

Shannon was found, a couple of

37:51

weeks later, James Burke became the

37:53

chief of police and has now

37:55

revealed co-conspirator was District Attorney Thomas

37:58

Spoda. I'm and

40:00

saw Rex Herman leave. We

40:02

covered that in a previous episode. But

40:05

at a symposium, John Ray shared

40:07

another possible clue, one

40:10

of Shannon Gilbert's diary excerpts. The

40:12

only one that had any significance in

40:15

respect to this case that we could find was

40:18

one name written on a single

40:20

page, and it was Chris,

40:22

and it was a line crossed through Chris,

40:25

and right next to it was written the word

40:27

massapequa. So of all the places

40:30

on Long Island that she could make notes

40:32

about, it's massapequa. I

40:34

think it is true that Huyman

40:37

used the name Chris, and

40:40

his stepson is

40:42

named Chris. We know that he

40:44

used common names when he used fake names

40:46

to solicit sex workers. As

40:49

far as that diary entry, that's

40:51

a Chris massapequa, I don't

40:53

know if it was dated, but how does

40:55

that entry line up with

40:58

the motel scenario in

41:00

which you have an affidavit from a

41:03

witness detailing with the cab driver? Could

41:06

that diary entry have led to her

41:09

going out there? Yes, it

41:11

could have. The diary is not

41:13

a very lengthy diary. It

41:15

doesn't seem to cover a very long period of time.

41:17

It's kind of like a book

41:20

of notes of the names of

41:22

Johns in various places and

41:24

phone numbers and the like. The

41:27

time period when the driver

41:29

says that, the taxi driver says

41:32

that Shannon was in that motel

41:34

with Huyman ranges from September

41:37

or October to

41:39

December of the year of

41:41

2009. So

41:43

only months before she disappears in May

41:45

of 2010. So

41:47

it kind of fits in the narrative. After

41:54

14 years on this case, I

41:56

can't tell you with 100% certainty whether or not not

42:00

Shannon was murdered, or by whom. But

42:04

I can tell you that this case

42:06

was not properly investigated, and

42:08

Shannon's family deserves answers. Theories

42:11

are not enough. It's time

42:13

for fresh eyes. It's

42:15

time for someone in authority to give Shannon

42:18

the attention she deserves. She

42:20

was abandoned by everyone during her final

42:22

hours. She's been dismissed

42:24

by those in power even after her death.

42:27

Let's you write by her and get some

42:29

answers. Next

42:34

week, we deep dive into the digital

42:36

evidence associated with the case. Rex

42:39

Heurmann's text messages, web searches, and

42:41

more. We unravel

42:43

the cat and mouse game between Rex and

42:45

investigators. You

42:47

won't believe how hard he tried to

42:49

stay off law enforcement's radar. Unraveled

42:54

is produced by Joke Productions 4ID. The

42:58

executive producers and writers of

43:00

this podcast are Joke Fincion,

43:02

Biagio Messina, and myself, Alexis

43:04

Linkletter. Executive producer for ID

43:06

is Annie Mangoni. Our editor

43:09

is Caitlin Cleveland. Lisa

43:11

Rybakoff is our associate producer. The

43:14

music and score that you've heard in this podcast

43:16

is by Biagio Messina. Subscribe on

43:18

Apple podcasts or wherever you get

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your podcasts. It helps a

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lot when you subscribe, rate, and review the podcasts

43:25

that you enjoy listening to. Thank

43:27

you for listening, and thank you for your support.