0:00

And you've got some pieces of

0:02

the administration that have a very

0:04

clear message about what they intend

0:06

to accomplish by bringing world

0:09

leaders to the table to get

0:11

a deal down, which intellectually you

0:13

look at and you say, okay, well

0:15

what they're trying to do is

0:17

get to zero, where you just actually

0:19

have free and fair trade, which is

0:21

something that right left and center

0:24

has talked about for years. And

0:27

then, but it doesn't, there's other pieces

0:29

that are like, no, no, tariffs are

0:31

good, they make us rich and they

0:33

should be in here in perpetuity.

0:35

And it's not just us losing

0:38

this in translation, it's actually

0:40

happening within the administration.

0:42

We will unleash the

0:44

power of American innovation,

0:46

we will soon be

0:48

on the verge of

0:50

finding the cures to

0:53

cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and

0:55

many other diseases. The

0:57

cure for cancer is

0:59

closer than ever. But

1:01

the Biden-Pill penalty is

1:03

forcing researchers to abandon

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millions of lives. Only

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it. He'll ignite a

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golden age of innovation

1:16

to defeat cancer once

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and for all. Tell

1:20

Congress and the

1:23

Biden-Pill penalty. Good

1:27

Tuesday to you and welcome back

1:30

to the ruthless variety program

1:32

I'm Josh Holmes along with

1:34

comfortable smug Michael Duncan John

1:37

Ashbrook left to great across

1:39

your radio dial That things

1:41

are going great. Yeah, right

1:43

fellas? Yeah, everything's awesome. All

1:45

I hear yeah, everybody's excited

1:47

or the market would agree

1:49

with you. Listen we told

1:51

you long ago that not

1:53

everything would be Apple Pie and moms

1:56

and baseball that at some

1:58

point there would be Rocky

2:00

Sholes and some of that has

2:02

come to fruition here over the

2:04

last week. Last time we talked

2:06

to you we were unveiling what

2:09

was Liberation Day and that what

2:11

that was basically was a bunch

2:13

of tariffs that this administration was

2:15

levying across the world it was

2:17

something that Donald Trump has talked

2:19

about since the mid-80s essentially shouldn't

2:22

have been a lot of secrets.

2:24

for the outside world about what

2:26

his view of tariffs were and

2:28

free trade and everything else. But

2:30

I think the extent of it was

2:32

something that, well, it's got some

2:35

people by surprise, notably some people

2:37

on Wall Street. And so we've

2:39

gotten into a little bit of

2:41

a quandary here from a economic

2:43

standpoint, and by extension, a political

2:45

standpoint. We've got a really big

2:47

show. for you here. We're going

2:49

to go into all of that.

2:52

We're going to talk a little

2:54

bit about some of the things

2:56

that have been unveiled. We're going to

2:58

try to have some dark humor with

3:00

you all about what we've experienced here

3:02

over the last four or five days,

3:05

but we've got a guest that honestly

3:07

I think contextualizes so much of this

3:09

stuff. in a way that I hadn't

3:11

thought about and that is super important.

3:14

Doug Bergam is with the Secretary of

3:16

Interior. You might ask yourself like, he's

3:18

not the Treasury Secretary, he's not the

3:20

Commerce Secretary, he's not in charge of

3:23

the terrorists. Wait to hear what he

3:25

has to say about his view of

3:27

how it sort of integrates with his

3:29

portfolio and everything else. It may actually

3:32

give you some perspective. You're surely not

3:34

going to get that on like the

3:36

cable news and the, you know, either

3:38

the fanfare. bods or the critics. I

3:40

mean this is this is deep thinking.

3:42

Yeah, I mean like it turns out

3:44

when you sell, you know, to Microsoft

3:46

for a billion dollars, your tech company,

3:48

you're actually pretty smart. You know, right?

3:51

He's, like, the guy knows everything. He's

3:53

got a brilliant business mind and he

3:55

understands the playing field better than most

3:57

and just a treat to have him

3:59

on. Yeah, a good friend of

4:01

the program. We've eaten Rattlesnake with

4:03

him. We've had all kinds of

4:06

experience with him, and now he's

4:08

here to explain all of this

4:10

in a whole lot more on

4:12

the back half of the show.

4:15

But on the front half, we're

4:17

going to talk a little bit

4:19

about this tariff situation. And I

4:21

think one of the things that

4:23

is sort of, gives you a

4:26

little pause. in comparison to where

4:28

we were on last Thursday's show.

4:30

We had a big preview of

4:32

what the administration was talking about

4:35

in terms of reciprocal tariffs. And

4:37

the argument made a lot of

4:39

sense, I think to all of

4:41

us, in various degrees, about the

4:43

world getting free rides off of

4:46

the United States and all the

4:48

way back through the Marshall Plan

4:50

to hear. having a whole bunch

4:52

of countries that are disinterested in

4:55

revisiting all of that. And that

4:57

made a ton of sense. And

4:59

so in the rollout, we sort

5:01

of anticipated that. Turns out, reciprocals

5:03

may be a bad, well, like

5:06

in concept, it makes a ton

5:08

of sense, but in practice as

5:10

they rolled it out, it was

5:12

more than just the tariff policy.

5:15

It was trade deficits. which again

5:17

we've heard Donald Trump talk about

5:19

since 1984 on public airwaves about

5:21

how that's a real concern I

5:23

don't disagree that it's a real

5:26

concern but it's not the same

5:28

thing in a lot of ways

5:30

and they rolled this thing out

5:32

and it was a a we're

5:35

terrifying some things that we'll get

5:37

into that well shall we say

5:39

they don't have a lot of

5:41

capability of having the same kind

5:43

of a trade market as a

5:46

country of a country of 330

5:48

small odd million people who happen

5:50

to have the most vibrant economy

5:52

in the world. And how you

5:55

treat that versus how you treat

5:57

somebody who's trying to penalize basically

5:59

the American public by tossing up

6:01

25. percent or 50 percent or

6:03

just prohibiting American products from coming

6:06

in as much of Europe does

6:08

with audios and that kind of

6:10

thing is a different by my

6:12

calculation is a different thing and

6:15

I think part of the problem

6:17

is from my perspective of why

6:19

we're seeing this big market tumult

6:21

and I'm not this is not

6:23

my area of expertise but I

6:26

know they like certainty part of

6:28

the problem with is you're not

6:30

getting like the same story. We

6:32

heard the reciprocal and then we

6:35

had this. And then you've got

6:37

some pieces of the administration that

6:39

have a very clear message about

6:41

what they intend to accomplish by

6:43

bringing world leaders to the table

6:46

to get a deal down, which

6:48

intellectually you look at and you

6:50

say, okay, well what they're trying

6:52

to do is get to zero.

6:55

We just actually have free and

6:57

fair trade, which is something that

6:59

right left and center has talked

7:01

about for years. And then, but

7:03

it doesn't, there's other pieces that

7:06

are like, no, no, tariffs are

7:08

good, they make us rich and

7:10

they should be in here in

7:12

perpetuity. And it's not just us

7:15

losing this in translation, it's actually

7:17

happening within the administration. And like

7:19

one of the clips I want

7:21

to play off the top that

7:23

I think sort of illustrates some

7:26

of this tumult. Clip one, we

7:28

have Peter Navarro. who is a

7:30

senior advisor to the president. He

7:32

was the trade guy last time

7:35

around. A huge influence within the

7:37

administration, but has a very protectionist

7:39

view. And as always has, written

7:41

books about that. It stands in

7:43

some contrast to what we were

7:46

hearing from other people, but he

7:48

gets into like a little spat

7:50

with Elon Musk, which I find

7:52

interesting. Clip one, please. Can we

7:55

go back to Elon Musk for

7:57

a second? Because I'm glad that

7:59

you brought that up. He also

8:01

took a shot at you personally

8:03

on X, and he's going against

8:06

the administration with respect to the

8:08

terror of policy. The president has

8:10

said in the coming months he

8:12

may leave the administration. Peter, is

8:15

there a rift internally? No, I

8:17

mean, look, Elon, look, Elon, when

8:19

he's in his doge line, is

8:21

great. But we understand what's going

8:23

on here. Do we just have

8:26

to understand? Elon sells cars. And

8:28

he's in Texas assembling cars that

8:30

have big parts of that car

8:32

from Mexico, China. Batteries come from

8:35

Japan or China. The electronics come

8:37

from Japan or China. The electronics

8:39

come from Taiwan. and he simply

8:41

protecting his own interests as any

8:43

business person would do. We're more

8:46

concerned about Detroit building Cadillac with

8:48

American engines. Okay, so the precursor

8:50

to all of that was a

8:52

tweet. If we can put up

8:55

graphic four. This is Peter Navarro

8:57

explaining. the tariffs in contrary to

8:59

the paid fake expert class that

9:01

is usually on corporate media. Peter

9:03

Navarro is a PhD in economics

9:06

and Harvard. He's also not going

9:08

to lie to you about what's

9:10

happening to a globalist agenda. Notice

9:12

how he uses. So Elon responded

9:15

to that which is what gave

9:17

rise to that question on Fox

9:19

Biz. where he says a PhD

9:21

in Econ from Harvard is a

9:23

bad thing, not a good thing,

9:26

results in the ego brains one

9:28

problem. All right, look, I think

9:30

that the larger piece of this

9:32

is you've got some cabinet secretaries

9:35

and economic advisors within the Trump

9:37

administration who have gone out of

9:39

their way to suggest the reciprocal

9:41

part of this thing is a

9:43

big deal. And this is what

9:46

we're trying to sell to the

9:48

American people that were basically, these

9:50

people are unwilling to do business

9:52

with the United States because they

9:55

never been forced to because they

9:57

never think we're going to take

9:59

the actual economic risk in order

10:01

to make them come to the

10:03

table. We've done this and so

10:06

now it's deal time. There's enough.

10:08

piece that is the Peter Navarro

10:10

piece that is saying no like

10:12

tariffs are good and like I

10:15

know I've got a definitive opinion

10:17

between those two schools of thought

10:19

but don't you think just in

10:21

and of itself that is part

10:23

and parcel of some of the

10:26

confusion and uncertainty that you're seeing

10:28

in the marketplace? So I think

10:30

it's really interesting there's the Peter

10:32

Navarro component of this introduces this

10:35

kind of wrinkle in this discussion

10:37

where Navarro kind of has a

10:39

philosophical belief of tariffs are intrinsically

10:41

good right and the question is

10:43

between is a tariff intrinsically good

10:46

or is a tariff a mechanism

10:48

used to influence behavior right you

10:50

know what I mean like like

10:52

Is a tariff by itself a

10:55

positive or is it tariff something

10:57

you're going to do to get

10:59

an outcome that is positive? I

11:01

think is the difference here. And

11:03

I think that kind of has,

11:06

that explains a lot of the

11:08

way that these tariffs were put

11:10

up. For example, can we show

11:12

a graphic one, the whole mathematical

11:15

formula which got a lot of

11:17

attention here? This is the formula

11:19

that the administration allegedly used to

11:21

calculate what tariffs go on what

11:23

country. A lot of Greek characters

11:26

for those who are in audio.

11:28

And yeah, a lot of it

11:30

is extraneous. Like, you know, you

11:32

don't need to multiply four times

11:35

one-fourth because I mean, whenever you

11:37

multiply times a reciprocal, you're just

11:39

going to end up with one.

11:41

So it's extraneous. But anyways, this

11:43

whole thing is just expressing the

11:46

idea of... The amount of tariffs

11:48

that were slapped on individual countries

11:50

is essentially just an expression of

11:52

a differential between how much they

11:55

buy from us and how much

11:57

we buy from them, right? Look,

11:59

for those of you who have

12:01

a tough time, and again, the

12:03

last math class I took was

12:06

called math. What we're saying here

12:08

is a country of 330 plus

12:10

million people in the largest, most

12:12

dynamic economy in the United States

12:15

has to have the same import-export

12:17

ratio as a country of 3

12:19

million people. dollar value of goods

12:21

and services. Bilateral trade deficits don't

12:23

tell the entire story. Right, but

12:26

that's basically what you're trying to

12:28

say by what they've reduced this

12:30

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trade policy... and you're using tariffs

13:01

as a mechanism, is the idea

13:03

to create a level playing field,

13:06

which is what you accomplish with

13:08

the idea that we discussed of

13:10

a reciprocal tariffs. If a country

13:12

is terrifying you at 1.5%, you

13:14

say, okay, we'll tariff you 1.5%.

13:17

We want an equal playing ground.

13:19

As opposed to if you have

13:21

like a country with the population

13:23

of like, you know, let's say

13:26

5,000 penguins, right, where you had

13:28

some person put in. You know,

13:30

who may have sold goods and

13:32

services to the United States and

13:34

all of a sudden it's like,

13:37

well the penguins aren't spending that

13:39

much on us. Which is actually

13:41

a real real example if we

13:43

can put up graphic too. meme

13:46

that's been going around is part

13:48

of heard in McDonald Islands which

13:50

is uninhabited from my understanding it's

13:52

a sort of a property I

13:54

guess of Australia in some ways

13:57

but it's uninhabited we've tariffed them

13:59

individually apparently the only inhabitants are

14:01

of penguins and so the meme

14:03

coming around is peace was never

14:06

an option well the penguin with

14:08

a sword. aspect to this is

14:10

the circuit breakers tripped on their

14:12

markets and I think there was

14:14

a hard stop on all trading

14:17

on that island because of what

14:19

happened. So don't discount that. I

14:21

think it's only fair, you know,

14:23

Donald Trump has spent a lot

14:26

of money at McDonald's, it's about

14:28

time he gets something back. Look,

14:30

the idea of reciprocal tariffs I

14:32

thought would accomplish two things. I

14:34

think number one it allows United

14:37

States of America to... renegotiate on

14:39

behalf of the American worker and

14:41

all of these markets and I

14:43

think that's a great thing and

14:46

we should do that. And I

14:48

think also we need more industrial

14:50

capacity in the United States and

14:52

I think COVID revealed that for

14:54

all of us in so many

14:57

ways. And I feel like in

14:59

what they did here with these

15:01

terrorists which weren't exactly reciprocal, they're

15:03

based upon a trade deficit, it

15:06

sort of obfuscated what should be

15:08

a very clear message from the

15:10

administration. You know, I mean there's

15:12

some situations in which It doesn't

15:14

make as much sense. Where you

15:17

look at like Japan and that

15:19

situation, it's like, well, shit. You

15:21

know where Toyota has the largest

15:23

manufacturing plant in the world? Yeah,

15:26

Kentucky. Georgetown, Kentucky. You know? You

15:28

know? Or like Vietnam. People are

15:30

looking at Vietnam. They're like, wow,

15:32

Vietnam is really large. Terror if

15:34

we're putting on them. Well, that's

15:37

because like a place like China

15:39

uses Vietnam as a third party

15:41

to dump steel into the United

15:43

States market. Right. And it's like.

15:46

It feels like by not doing

15:48

the reciprocal. tariff we're trying to

15:50

solve other problems in trade with

15:52

this tariff that isn't related to

15:54

some reciprocity and it's like I

15:57

know it's a problem like I

15:59

know the Vietnam situation is a

16:01

problem you want you want you

16:03

want to know why is because

16:06

they actually open an investigation into

16:08

dumping from China a couple months

16:10

ago why because they're anticipating this

16:12

it's like there's ways to solve

16:14

these problems beyond just like the

16:17

tariff issue if that makes sense.

16:19

No, it does make ish. Look,

16:21

it makes a lot of sense

16:23

in the context of solving problems,

16:26

if that's the goal, to solve

16:28

problems, which goes back to last

16:30

Thursday's episode. We were talking about

16:32

the reciprocal nature of all this,

16:34

and you know, whether it's reciprocal

16:37

or not, assuming the goal is

16:39

to solve a problem, terrific. I

16:41

just I'm having a tough time

16:43

getting a clear like Burgam today

16:46

I think does and you got

16:48

to hold on to the end

16:50

of this. I think he does

16:52

the best job of explaining that

16:54

I've heard about what the ultimate

16:57

goal is here in a forward-looking

16:59

way because look there's a lot

17:01

of people you're sitting around this

17:03

country listening to this podcast you're

17:06

more informed than most because you're

17:08

listening to us and you're wondering

17:10

like is it really our goal?

17:12

to try to turn like Dallas

17:14

and Vegas and Houston and Miami

17:17

into Youngstown Ohio 1950 and like

17:19

the obvious answer is no to

17:21

that but there is a much

17:23

of what the messaging has come

17:26

out up to this point they

17:28

would lead you to believe that

17:30

that's sort of in the Well

17:32

I think there's a difference between

17:34

trying to return to 1950 Youngstown

17:37

Ohio which will never happen and

17:39

trying to re-energize a manufacturing sector

17:41

in this country that is hungry

17:43

to go to work. Well yeah

17:46

because the issue there is is

17:48

in addition to the revolution that's

17:50

happening there's an automation revolution that's

17:52

happening so even if you you

17:54

resource jobs to the United States

17:57

in the manufacturing sector which we

17:59

need to do it's going to

18:01

look different yeah it's not just

18:03

going to be an assembly line

18:06

of people screwing on the tops

18:08

of toothpaste yeah it's just not

18:10

but there's also but there's also

18:12

a lot more to manufacturing screwing

18:14

on the top I know toothpaste

18:17

which a robot can do somebody's

18:19

got to make the parts for

18:21

the robots and maybe eventually there

18:23

will be robots making the parts

18:26

for the robots, but somebody's got

18:28

to make the parts for these

18:30

industrial processes. And there are a

18:32

whole host of small shops around

18:34

this country that have people who

18:37

are skilled and ready to be

18:39

able to make those parts and

18:41

would do a much better job

18:43

making those parts than someone overseas.

18:46

And I do think that that

18:48

part of manufacturing in our country

18:50

is ready to go and has

18:52

been overlooked by the mainstream media

18:54

and overlooked by Democrats and everybody

18:57

else. And so I understand that

18:59

we will never get back to

19:01

the 1950s, but I do think

19:03

that there are people who are

19:06

ready to use their hands to

19:08

work. And I think it can

19:10

happen. Well, if you want to

19:12

make an apples to apples comparison,

19:14

you know, you don't have to

19:17

go to Youngstown, Ohio, 1950s. You

19:19

can talk about Ohio, 2025, where

19:21

endural just opened a manufacturing plant

19:23

in Ohio. Exactly. Because American manufacturing

19:26

is the best on earth. There's

19:28

a demand. There's a skilled labor

19:30

force to do it. And you

19:32

just build it here in America.

19:34

I guess America needs to have

19:37

an to defend ourselves? Answer is,

19:39

well, we can defend ourselves. You

19:41

build the plant here in the

19:43

US. It can be done. Instead

19:46

of trying to depend on, well,

19:48

like, we have a current problem

19:50

in this country where we had

19:52

parts, screws, fins made in China

19:54

that we're getting for our weapons

19:57

that we're using for our military.

19:59

That's being fixed right now. We

20:01

had a guest last month who

20:03

was talking about revitalizing America. industrial

20:06

base which is happening right now.

20:08

The question is... Do tariffs get

20:10

us there? That's like using tools

20:12

for trade to try like it

20:14

seems like somewhere the idea got

20:17

muddled in between trying to level

20:19

the playing field with also the

20:21

idea of but also we have

20:23

a trade imbalance you know? Yeah

20:26

which in and of itself is

20:28

is difficult because look this is

20:30

an ideological discussion that I grew

20:32

up with. in the beginning of

20:34

my political career, where there were

20:37

many Democrats who argued with a

20:39

straight face, they sounded absolutely the

20:41

same as Peter Navarro. Like literally

20:43

there wasn't a sentence or a

20:46

word different than what Peter Navarro

20:48

is saying. And basically their thought

20:50

process was, as long as we

20:52

just stop all international commerce into

20:54

the United States, we can revitalize

20:57

the manufacturing base in the United

20:59

States to service our own, which

21:01

is great. Right? In and of

21:03

itself, is it an improvement from

21:06

where we're at? Maybe from a

21:08

very strict jobs in manufacturing in

21:10

the United States point of view.

21:12

The larger perspective is we've had

21:14

a global economy for quite some

21:17

time. And if you're looking at

21:19

GDP growth from this country, which

21:21

is powers our impact on the

21:23

world. And much of our commerce

21:26

and economic power globally, I mean

21:28

the power that in the reverence

21:30

that the world has for the

21:32

United States is the fact that

21:34

we are the largest economy. But

21:37

the reason for that is because

21:39

we do an enormous amount of

21:41

commerce around the world. And if

21:43

you just erect barriers to that

21:46

commerce, you inhibit growth at some

21:48

level. Now I'm not saying... very

21:51

clearly that we ought to run a

21:53

domestic economic policy around what it is

21:55

the markets in multinational corporations. think we

21:58

ought to do because clearly that's not

22:00

the right answer. But you also can't

22:02

be blind to the fact that the

22:05

world does commerce with itself and whether

22:07

or not the United States chooses to

22:09

participate or not certainly isn't going to

22:12

change what the EU does for commerce.

22:14

They need goods they can't have. Much

22:16

of this goes back to like an

22:19

energy discussion that we had about the

22:21

Ukraine war in Germany and Russia and

22:23

everything you can't get it from the

22:26

United States. You're going to get it

22:28

from somewhere because you have a demand-side

22:30

problem Right they can get soybeans and

22:33

they can get they can get stuff

22:35

from Brazil and South America if they

22:37

need to replace what they're getting from

22:40

here And it's like you don't have

22:42

to actually be a political scientist to

22:44

figure out that when you supply a

22:47

necessity to certain parts of the world

22:49

you have some leverage And that's one

22:51

of the reasons why energy in and

22:54

of itself which I understand is sort

22:56

of carved out of this discussion in

22:58

a lot of ways But why it's

23:01

a national security imperative? Because of America

23:03

supplies it, that's an advantage. Well, there's

23:05

a lot of other goods that we're

23:08

in that process of. I think the

23:10

question is trying to find the equilibrium

23:12

here for what America can export and

23:15

find a deal that we can actually

23:17

get into markets that we're prohibited from

23:19

being in now at the same time

23:22

that we can take in goods and

23:24

services that other countries do at a

23:26

lower cost that are better for us.

23:29

that don't jeopardize our own economy and

23:31

our own workforce. Right? I mean, that's

23:33

basically the whole substance of the argument.

23:36

I totally agree with you. And I

23:38

think that there is, I think what

23:40

you're saying also that's very smart is

23:43

that there's so many more inputs that

23:45

are barriers to success for American domestic

23:47

companies beyond just tariffs and trade. There's

23:50

a cost of labor. There's a cost

23:52

of health care. There is a cost

23:54

of energy. There is the cost of

23:57

regulations. And what I'm talking about is

23:59

removing those barriers to prevent. domestic companies

24:01

from accessing our own market. That's a

24:04

great point. And I think that like,

24:06

one of the things, and I'm not

24:08

trying to say that everything they're doing

24:10

with these tariffs is exactly right. I

24:13

think that the idea is good because

24:15

they are trying to rebalance the global

24:17

marketplace in a way. But I do

24:20

think that, you know, just a guy

24:22

grown up in Ohio and you know,

24:24

you guys all, you know, Midwestern guys,

24:27

smugs, a brilliant financial mine. Like the...

24:29

There are barriers that have been erected

24:31

to American businesses trying to service American

24:34

customers. I get that dude, but like,

24:36

you know, you drive up 94 out

24:38

of Detroit and you see like... You

24:41

know you leave downtown you see gross

24:43

point and it's beautiful and there's lots

24:45

of big homes Then you see for

24:48

like 10 miles the skeleton of what

24:50

used to be like the most amazing

24:52

city in the United States of America

24:55

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And like times change

24:57

and times change and and it wasn't

24:59

because of regulations and stuffs we outsourced

25:02

the auto industry in so many ways

25:04

and we had a workforce that was

25:06

an affordable and people had to figure

25:09

out out and I understand it so

25:11

I guess what I guess what I

25:13

say My question, I don't have the

25:16

answer to this, this is fucking complicated.

25:18

It's complicated shit. But like, you know,

25:20

how do you build an economy for

25:23

tomorrow that has a role for re-industrialization

25:25

of the United States of America that

25:27

allows, you know, a part of our

25:30

country to work in that environment? I

25:32

just think it's going to have to

25:34

be some component of our economy of

25:37

the future. It just has to be.

25:39

And I think COVID revealed that. Yeah,

25:41

look, I think that's right. And let

25:44

me wrap this and then we'll get

25:46

to our question and all of that,

25:48

but it's part of a larger economic

25:51

story that this administration is trying to

25:53

tell. Clearly the tax reform piece is

25:55

a huge part of it. That made

25:58

a lot of progress over the weekend.

26:00

The United States Senate passing the joint

26:02

House Senate budget, which allows you to

26:05

go forward with a process called reconciliation.

26:07

Now the House's job all week this

26:09

week to try to figure out how

26:12

to get that over the finish line.

26:14

The import of that particular process, given

26:16

the backdrop of what we're doing with

26:19

the global economy, could not be higher.

26:21

Right. And so you hear I've got

26:23

zero patience. I mean zero. Four Republicans

26:26

are like, yeah, but it doesn't do.

26:28

Yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah.

26:30

Okay, well, you're gonna have to figure

26:33

out how to provide some tax certainty

26:35

for businesses to plan. Totally. When they're

26:37

in the entirety of their marketplace is

26:40

uncertain. You gotta have at least one

26:42

side of the ledger that's making sense

26:44

to people. And I'm just not open

26:47

for business with people being like, well,

26:49

it doesn't do this, it doesn't do

26:51

that, it doesn't do it. Look, we

26:54

saw what happened in 2017, Trump passed

26:56

tax cuts, economy went through the moon,

26:58

everybody was, the wages went up, everything,

27:01

we know what that does. That's great.

27:03

I'm just saying that was a good

27:05

economic environment because Trump basically created it.

27:08

We are now in a transition deal

27:10

where if you're going to actually get...

27:12

Any portion of what the Trump administration

27:15

views as an onshoring of jobs and

27:17

manufacturing you as Congress need to get

27:19

that shit done a sap I mean

27:22

a sap Because that is any it's

27:24

never been more important. So anyway that

27:26

that process is start at the end

27:29

of the last week It's going through

27:31

this week with the house and you're

27:33

gonna hear a whole bunch of people

27:36

about how it doesn't do this doesn't

27:38

do that bullshit Like, it doesn't, I

27:40

don't care, you can come back and

27:43

make the case to 435 members of

27:45

Congress on another day about what it

27:47

is that your ideal situation looks like.

27:50

like they need to provide the Trump

27:52

administration the backdrop of some kind of

27:54

certainty on the tax side yesterday yeah

27:57

with this situation so anyway listen that

27:59

that's our our view it's a little

28:01

heavy but honestly do it if you

28:04

were yeah please you do not hear

28:06

this at all from the administration because

28:08

they would not say this but there

28:11

is some ridiculous messaging that you see

28:13

out here where people are saying like

28:15

stock market's not real. You know, just

28:18

like zeros and ones or something. There's

28:20

a reason you don't hear that from

28:22

the administration is because that's not a

28:25

good argument for them. It's not good,

28:27

dude. I don't know who you thought

28:29

there is trying to put out this.

28:32

I'm seeing this shit on the internet,

28:34

dude. It's like you're talking about real

28:36

people with real retirements. It's like, it's

28:39

like, it's the worst, these are the

28:41

worst moments for X influence. Right. I

28:43

mean, I mean, this is for people

28:46

who's for people who are people who

28:48

are people who are very much invested

28:50

in the partisan side of politics and

28:53

they're very interested in like carrying the

28:55

cause through their arguments. There's no time

28:57

that you would look dumber on a

29:00

moment-by-moment basis than getting out over your

29:02

skis and trying to give analysis of

29:04

what it is that's happening now and

29:07

that's a perfect example like oh they

29:09

have no the stock market doesn't matter.

29:11

Oh that's cool. Doesn't matter. I tell

29:14

that every pension in the entire country.

29:16

I mean, it shouldn't be our entire

29:18

policy focus is like, well, we can't

29:21

do something against upset Wall Street, but

29:23

you also have to recognize and like

29:25

be a person who's like aware of

29:28

the situation around you to not be

29:30

like, hey, your retirement account doesn't matter.

29:32

It's like, how would you possibly think

29:34

that's an okay thing to say on

29:37

the internet to everybody? Like, just some

29:39

people are so dumb. Yeah. I mean

29:41

look I think at the end of

29:44

the day if this thing gets if

29:46

there's a tax component and and Trump

29:48

can do deals here and that's where

29:51

we came into this last week if

29:53

that is true you could very easily

29:55

see by late summer in the fall

29:58

a fundamentally different economic environment that is

30:00

like rapid fire growth. You could see

30:02

that and it's fantastic and given what

30:05

this guy has done in pulling a

30:07

rabbit out of a hat both politically

30:09

and from a policy perspective since he's

30:12

come down the golden escalator I'm willing

30:14

to give him the benefit of the

30:16

doubt. I'm giving him a shot here.

30:19

A hundred percent. Right. Everybody trying to

30:21

tell you the market doesn't matter. when

30:23

that day comes is going to be

30:26

like look at the market. Yeah. You

30:28

got to have, but you got to

30:30

have some credibility along the way. And

30:33

I have got, I've had for my

30:35

entire professional career, a lot of trepidation

30:37

about this side of the ledger in

30:40

terms of tariffs and in terms of

30:42

isolationism and all. Like I just don't,

30:44

I don't buy it. I just don't,

30:47

I think that's 1950's view. If, as

30:49

you're going to hear from our guest.

30:51

It is a mechanism to get to

30:54

a new manufacturing sector in the United

30:56

States that is forward-looking and futures. That's

30:58

a compelling case to me. People have

31:01

been hungry for that. That's a compelling

31:03

case and one I can get beyond.

31:05

So anyway, our question of the day

31:08

for all of you. Do you trust

31:10

Trump on this tariff policy? It's a

31:12

good question. It's just a bottom line

31:15

deal. You heard what we had to

31:17

say, interested in your thoughts, we're going

31:19

to read it all, you got to

31:22

like and subscribe, and if you do,

31:24

we're going to go through absolutely all

31:26

of it. We'll get to your comments

31:29

from last Thursday's episodes right after this.

31:32

Did you know original Medicare loses

31:34

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Advantage, and ensures get the best

31:57

care. while protecting your hard-earned tax

31:59

dollars. Okay, so you'll recall last

32:01

Thursday was the preview of Liberation

32:03

Day, as the Trump administration discussed

32:05

it. We took your comments on

32:07

that with a question of will

32:09

reciprocal tariffs work. Interesting thoughts, thank

32:11

you for liking and subscribing to

32:13

do this, we always start with

32:15

a voice. The first comment comes

32:18

from that guy 19 and that

32:20

guy writes, these tariffs are not

32:22

reciprocal. They're numbers attached to whatever

32:24

tariff they have on us divided

32:26

by our trade deficit with them.

32:28

In most cases, it ends up

32:30

putting a 10x tariff on them

32:32

compared to ours. It is in

32:34

no means reciprocal. If it works

32:36

by lowering whatever tariff they have

32:38

on us, and then we reciprocate

32:41

fine but if not it's going

32:43

to be a huge tax on

32:45

Americans I think that just shows

32:47

you the breadth of opinions from

32:49

our audience yeah I mean look

32:51

that guy 19 he's got the

32:53

same opinion right I mean it's

32:55

not all four of us but

32:57

what he just articulated I think

32:59

is exactly how I feel about

33:01

it smart smart stuff comment two

33:03

dunks from the silent generation They

33:06

write, because of liberal economic policies

33:08

and regulations in the U.S., we

33:10

have lost manufacturing to countries like

33:12

China and Vietnam. This makes us

33:14

dependent on other countries and destabilizes

33:16

national security. During a crisis, we

33:18

may be solely dependent on our

33:20

enemy to produce goods. This is

33:22

why the USA is trying to

33:24

bring back manufacturing to America, which

33:26

will create more and better paying

33:29

jobs and at the same time

33:31

reduce costs of transportation and lower

33:33

taxes for the companies coming back.

33:35

In fact, that no terrorists will

33:37

be levied is also a great

33:39

incentive. This is the reason for

33:41

the tariffs. They have been asymmetrical

33:43

for far too long. We allowed

33:45

them to be asymmetrical after World

33:47

War II because the USA was

33:49

booming and the rest of the

33:52

world... world was in poor economic

33:54

health. Now, however, is it time

33:56

for reciprocal tariffs? We do unto

33:58

you what you do unto us.

34:00

What could be more fair? I

34:02

do like this. I do think

34:04

asymmetrical tariffs are a problem and

34:06

I do. I do like this

34:08

guy's perspective. Very smart stuff as

34:10

always. Uh, comment three, please, smudge.

34:12

This comes from Ron O'K. Rhonda

34:15

writes, it sounds like the tendency

34:17

of a lot of administrations to

34:19

not want to address the issue

34:21

of tariffs is very similar to

34:23

a lot of administration's, to not

34:25

want to address the issue of

34:27

tariffs is very similar to a

34:29

lot of administrations, not wanting to

34:31

touch in town programs. I think

34:33

that's a great comparison. On this

34:35

episode and I said it last

34:38

week, which is like... you know

34:40

we shouldn't you know pursue public

34:42

policy because it's you know we're

34:44

scared Wall Street's going to be

34:46

scared and that keeps us from

34:48

doing what we think is is

34:50

right and I think that is

34:52

like entitlements where it's like there

34:54

may be short-term political cost to

34:56

what we're trying to do and

34:58

you know we're obviously seeing that

35:00

right now with the terrorists with

35:03

the market going down as a

35:05

result but at the end of

35:07

the day It's different to say

35:09

tariffs are objectively a good thing

35:11

and we should have them in

35:13

perpetuity versus saying what I think

35:15

most of us here would agree

35:17

is that tariffs as a negotiation

35:19

to get others to reduce their

35:21

tariffs or to renegotiate other aspects

35:23

of trade is much better. That

35:26

appreciate that like Thomas Sol is

35:28

pretty fucking smart. Like Adam Smith

35:30

is pretty fucking smart. You know

35:32

Frederick Hike is pretty smart and

35:34

trade is a good idea and

35:36

we should do it. Yes. Yeah.

35:38

Yeah. No. I think. And that

35:40

like comment sort of underscores our

35:42

whole discussion here, right? Which is

35:44

if it's a means to an

35:46

end. Yeah. If it's a means

35:49

to an end. Okay, like that's

35:51

that's fine. Let's just straighten out

35:53

some of the messaging here. So

35:55

we're all on the same page

35:57

about what it is that we're

35:59

doing. provide some certainty, maybe a

36:01

deal or two. Got some deals.

36:03

Maybe a deal or two would help

36:05

straighten some things out. I mean, I

36:08

think the bottom line is in a

36:10

very deeply divided country. You're going to

36:12

have 49% that unbelievably voted for

36:15

Kamla Harris. Like somebody that

36:17

knew demonstrably could not do the

36:19

job as President of the United States.

36:21

After they voted for Joe Biden, who

36:24

we now know. absolutely couldn't

36:26

do the job as president of

36:28

the United States, who like picture

36:30

in their head, you know, bozo

36:32

the clown sitting at the fricking

36:35

controls, just sort of like willy-nilly

36:37

operating this thing. But that's the

36:39

reality we have in this country.

36:41

And you've got to do something

36:43

to disabuse that. Like that, I

36:45

know it's ridiculous and I know

36:48

that when you win the majority,

36:50

it doesn't matter because you make

36:52

policy and those guys just have

36:54

to make whatever. But that

36:56

bleeds into this larger discourse

36:58

that you're seeing across the

37:01

country. And let me just say, like

37:03

from a political standpoint,

37:05

going into last week, we

37:07

had a discussion about Venezuelan

37:10

gang deportations, securing the border,

37:12

men and women's sports,

37:14

taxes. All things on a 70-30

37:16

side of the ledger, how many things

37:19

this week matter? Like, do you think

37:21

you can have a discussion

37:23

about judicial, like, activism

37:25

this week? Does anybody think

37:28

that that's gonna have resonance

37:30

beyond a partisan 15, 10, 7% of

37:32

the American public who's like, nothing that

37:35

anybody in the Republican side can do

37:37

is wrong and everything the other side

37:39

of the other side of the, beyond

37:41

that? Like does anybody want to entertain

37:44

judges discussions? To your point this whole

37:46

subject has blotted out the sun. It's

37:48

blotted out the sun so you got

37:50

to take care of it. And the

37:53

thing is is like if you look

37:55

at the history of successful administrations and

37:57

I would rate this the first term.

37:59

of the Trump administration is

38:02

an incredibly successful term

38:04

because of this. They created

38:06

an economic optimism within

38:09

the United States where you're

38:11

open to other parts of

38:13

the discussion. Like the biggest

38:15

problem that Democrats have when they

38:17

run government is they do so

38:19

many economically dumb-ass things

38:22

that they're bigger things that

38:24

you can entertain like climate

38:26

change. You only entertain something

38:28

like climate change if your

38:31

401k looks fucking awesome. Like

38:33

you're not interested at all.

38:35

Yeah, luxury beliefs. In the

38:38

temperature of the world, if you're

38:40

going bankrupt. You're not.

38:42

Economic stuff rules out

38:44

everything else. So like, this is now

38:47

the thing. that's okay like the other stuff

38:49

needs to happen too because at the end

38:51

of that this story it'd be great to

38:53

point back on a bunch of accomplishments

38:55

that you've done on a parallel track

38:57

I'm just saying it's no longer driving

38:59

the train yeah like this one is

39:01

driving the train which is important to

39:03

remember anyway that's like my 10th

39:05

cent. Yeah, makes sense. Political lecture.

39:08

When we come back, Doug Burgam,

39:10

Secretary of the Interior, this guy

39:12

does a better job than any

39:14

of us can do on explaining

39:16

both tariffs, what we're doing on

39:18

energy, public lands, and everything else.

39:21

It is just terrific and we

39:23

love him to death. Comes back

39:25

right after this. Hardworking Americans know

39:27

when it's time to roll

39:30

up our sleeves and get

39:32

the job done. Now is

39:35

the time to unleash our

39:37

nation's energy, to create jobs,

39:40

secure our future, and make

39:42

life better, more affordable, and

39:44

full of opportunity for all

39:47

Americans. That's the power of

39:49

America's oil and natural gas.

39:52

Learn more at Lights on

39:54

energy.org, paid for by the

39:57

American Petroleum Institute.

39:59

know very well that

40:01

one of our favorite guests

40:03

on this program going back

40:06

several years now. Secretary

40:08

of the Interior Doug Burgam,

40:10

how are you sir? I'm

40:12

great and I want to say

40:14

that this is the most fabiously overdressed

40:16

I've ever felt on a podcast. the

40:19

zip up, you got the uniform on,

40:21

you guys looking great. We're keeping it

40:23

real. I know, I know, I know

40:25

if you had told me, I mean,

40:27

left this thing behind. I never wore

40:30

a suit when I was governor. Well,

40:32

you have to keep, you have to

40:34

keep up appearances now. I

40:36

mean, you're like a, you know, it's

40:38

a big, big job. Well, I got,

40:40

I got asked when I, shortly after

40:43

we came governor, they said, you don't

40:45

wear a tie. I think you're being

40:47

disrespectful. If I thought wearing a tie would

40:49

make me a better governor, I'd wear two

40:51

ties. At the same time. Very good answer.

40:53

Very good answer. But here I am. I'm

40:56

wearing one tie today. But great to be

40:58

with all of you guys. Great to be

41:00

with you. This has been a long time

41:02

coming. Obviously we're huge fans of yours and

41:05

been talking to you since we, I mean,

41:07

we ate Rattlesnake with this gentleman. Yeah. Which

41:09

was an experience by the way. I

41:11

never knew I loved Ralph Nick

41:13

Nachos. That was a terrific thing

41:16

to learn. It was awesome. I

41:18

mean, it's been a long way

41:20

since the fair in Iowa, right?

41:22

Yes, it is. And then today

41:24

I think we're going to get

41:26

a chance to break some news

41:28

on some more wildlife species today.

41:30

I think we will. We will.

41:32

And I think it's a dire

41:34

situation. I actually think so. You

41:36

may not. You may not. We

41:38

may have differing opinions. But we'll

41:41

get to that in a second.

41:43

Listen, let's talk about the job for

41:45

a second. Secretary of Interior,

41:47

broad portfolio. It's not just

41:49

sort of a land manager as,

41:51

you know, having a democratic administration.

41:53

It's basically like a Bureau of

41:55

Indian Affairs and then how you

41:58

figure out how to shut down. any

42:00

sort of domestic energy production and

42:02

things like that. Under Republican administration,

42:04

much different portfolio. And you've got

42:07

your hands and it seems like

42:09

almost everything at this point. Well,

42:11

we're thinking about renaming at the

42:13

Department of the exterior because it

42:16

is so massively and basically all

42:18

of it has to do with

42:20

the public and the outdoor resources

42:23

of America. And if it was

42:25

a standalone company, it would have

42:27

the largest balance sheet in the

42:30

world. 500 million acres of surface

42:32

land, public lands. 500 million acres

42:35

700 million acres of subsurface and

42:37

2.5 billion of offshore because the

42:39

interior includes has a trust responsibility

42:42

for all of our territories so

42:44

we're talking everything from the US

42:46

Virgin Islands to American Samoa and

42:48

the South Pacific is part of

42:51

the interior 14 time zones that

42:53

we have and it's an incredible

42:55

job you I mean US Fish

42:57

and Wildlife Bureau of Reclamation were

43:00

the number two hydro power producer

43:02

in America. The irrigation from the

43:04

Bureau of Reclamation, Arizona and California

43:06

wouldn't exist as states today without

43:09

the foresight over a hundred years

43:11

ago of people like Theodore Roosevelt,

43:13

the National Park System, U.S. Fish

43:15

and Wildlife, the Bureau of Land

43:18

Management, where a lot of that

43:20

land is located, and it just

43:22

goes on and on, multiple offshore

43:24

agencies, and of course, Bureau of

43:26

Indian Affairs, 574 federally recognized tribes,

43:29

and also the Bureau of Indian

43:31

Ed, is not in the Department

43:33

of Education. There's 125,000 school kids

43:35

that go to school on tribal

43:37

lands as part of the Bureau

43:39

of Indian Education. So this is

43:42

the opportunities exist. This is like

43:44

being in a foxhole surrounded and

43:46

every day you get up and

43:48

you can attack in any direction

43:50

and there's big opportunities. The good

43:52

news is all the staff at

43:54

Interior was able to rewrite the

43:56

entire website on a paragraph that

43:59

he just recited. Listen, you know,

44:01

people said, being the governor of

44:03

a Western natural resource state, you

44:05

have, they said, you've done all

44:07

this before. And I'm like, I

44:09

went down the list and I

44:11

said, yeah, everything except. Offshore drilling

44:13

we don't have we didn't have

44:15

North Dakota weird we didn't have

44:17

any 12 billion dollar rigs a

44:20

hundred miles offshore That's one energy

44:22

production North Dakota doesn't do that's

44:24

it. But ironically a bit of

44:26

a passion project. Yeah for this

44:28

guy. Yeah, no, I'm learning a

44:30

lot about offshore and it's it's it's

44:32

16% of US oil and gas comes

44:34

from offshore and that number could be

44:36

a lot higher but you talked about

44:39

I mean the Biden administration basically their

44:41

whole game plan was to try to

44:43

shut down the development whether it's timber

44:45

whether it was grazing whether it was

44:47

oil and gas with critical minerals the

44:49

whole thing was you know humans aren't

44:52

going to be part of the landscape

44:54

we're going to shut down all of

44:56

this development and then somehow chasing this

44:58

you know climate extremism ideology none of

45:00

that reduced the demand for any of

45:03

them, didn't reduce the demand for timber,

45:05

didn't reduce the demand for critical minerals,

45:07

critical minerals were going up because of

45:09

the, you know, technology. The demand was

45:12

rising in many cases. All we're doing

45:14

was shifting supply to our adversaries and

45:16

their adversaries were funding wars with their,

45:19

the revenue coming off the sale of

45:21

like the oil and gas and Russia

45:23

and Iran funding 24 terror groups with

45:26

that. I mean, they, so that was

45:28

a... that was not helping us, it

45:30

was helping our adversaries, and then

45:32

our adversaries don't have an EPA.

45:34

They don't have an EPA. They're

45:36

not following any rules. I mean,

45:39

if you're doing open-pit mining with

45:41

child labor, with no reclamation, yeah,

45:43

your cost to China, you know,

45:45

might be lower, and then you

45:47

flood the market with critical minerals

45:49

and, you know, crush anybody that's

45:52

trying to do mining in our

45:54

nation. So we've gone on a

45:56

long path of really... turning

45:58

our back on what for the

46:00

benefit and the enjoyment of the American

46:02

people. That's literally, you know, sort of

46:05

etched in the creation of the public

46:07

lands. But the benefit includes, because if

46:09

you have the largest balance sheet in

46:11

the world, then Interior has the worst

46:13

returns of any fund. Any land means

46:16

like... Yeah, like negative a million. Yeah.

46:18

No, it's, I mean, it's a, and

46:20

everybody knows the national debt. 36 and

46:22

a half trillion dollars. We get pounded

46:24

in every four years. Here's our debt

46:27

that we have. I've been trying to

46:29

find out, where's the asset side of

46:31

the sheet? There's not, I cannot find

46:33

in Washington the asset side of the

46:36

balance sheet, because it doesn't exist really,

46:38

people can speculate, but we don't have

46:40

a good accounting of what all of

46:42

these millions of acres are worth, what

46:44

are our national parks worth? I mean,

46:47

what are the last best place? I

46:49

mean, if you add it all that

46:51

up, it's got to be double or

46:53

triple or more than what our debt

46:55

is, I mean, P&L, I say weird

46:58

because we do weird accounting. If you

47:00

have a 10-year software as a service

47:02

as a contract, they roll it into

47:04

year one and stick it all in

47:07

the budget in year one and then

47:09

everybody goes, oh, we can't buy software

47:11

as a service, it's too expensive. When

47:13

it would actually be less cash going

47:15

out the door over the next 10

47:18

years of a contract. that's what my

47:20

that's my term of weird but it's

47:22

a you don't have to worry about

47:24

gap accounting because they don't have shareholders

47:26

they're just taking money from taxpayers and

47:29

they're like we'll be fine exactly for

47:31

the longest time it's just been yeah

47:33

this is why I was so pleased

47:35

when you and Chris Wright were essentially

47:37

brought in to help get this country

47:40

back on track because all the tremendous

47:42

and abundant natural resources we've had in

47:44

this country We've been told that it's

47:46

like you can't touch that. No, you're

47:49

going to destroy the planet if you

47:51

use any of the natural resources we

47:53

have. You have to import it from

47:55

Russia and do it on slave wages

47:57

and fund wars against us. It's unbelievable.

48:00

But the amount of work that you

48:02

both have already got started is tremendous.

48:04

You already see it reflected in cheaper

48:06

prices at the pumps. What are the...

48:08

most significant things you think have already

48:11

been accomplished. Well, I think one of

48:13

the things along the lines of this

48:15

balance sheet ideas, if you had a

48:17

balance sheet, then when President Biden in

48:20

the last weeks of his office does

48:22

an executive order with a stroke of

48:24

pen and says, I'm going to take

48:26

625 million acres of offshore minerals and

48:28

we're just going to take it off

48:31

the balance sheet. We're taking it off

48:33

the table. It can't be touched. And

48:35

then... people write about it, there was

48:37

never a financial number attached to that

48:39

in any story I saw, but what

48:42

was the number? Did he just wipe

48:44

out 10 trillion? I don't know, what

48:46

was it? I mean, there should have

48:48

been like Biden wipes out, you know,

48:51

10 trillion from your children and your

48:53

children's children's future, whatever, because we all

48:55

get told, oh, that, you know, the

48:57

36 trillion dollars of debt, this is

48:59

how much is yours, how much is

49:02

yours, right? Why don't we tell them

49:04

all that their percentage of the public

49:06

lands is three or four or five

49:08

times larger than the debt? Yeah. I

49:10

mean, what would that do to the

49:13

long-term, the 10-year interest rate if we

49:15

actually published a balance sheet that said

49:17

that our debt was a fraction of

49:19

our assets? That's incredible. I hope we

49:22

gave back around 1%. Yeah, that'd be

49:24

a great way to get started on

49:26

it. Yeah, well, and we're not anywhere

49:28

close to 1%. I mean, if the

49:30

interior balance sheet was balance sheet, you

49:33

know, you know, And last year in

49:35

the Biden administration, during four years of

49:37

declining revenue, they got it down to

49:39

18 billion. So we're 150th away from,

49:41

we're 150th of 1%. So it's all

49:44

upside, okay? We can, I think we

49:46

can get a little more return out

49:48

of this for the, and that's part

49:50

of, so again, part of the why

49:53

this mission is so fun, because we're,

49:55

you know, American prosperity. and then world

49:57

peace. Those are the two things I

49:59

get to work on every day. Yeah,

50:01

that ain't bad. No, that ain't bad.

50:04

It's a good to do list. Yeah.

50:06

To Smug's point about what you've already

50:08

accomplished, you know, two months and you're

50:10

already taking advantage of opportunities off. particularly

50:12

in the Gulf of America, opening up

50:15

new leases. I wonder if you could

50:17

talk a little bit about that. Yeah,

50:19

well, and to be able to, you

50:21

know, set up a lease sale, the

50:24

first thing we had to do was

50:26

undo the banning of the 625 million

50:28

acres. So President Trump, executive order, those

50:30

executive orders, everyone he's done includes, like

50:32

on paragraph two or three, this. cabinet

50:35

secretary shall in 15 days. I mean,

50:37

it's very explicit in those EO's what

50:39

he wants his leadership team to be

50:41

driving against. And I mean, Pete Higgs

50:43

have got one that was 60 days.

50:46

I'm like, Pete, how'd you get 60

50:48

days? I mean, I'm all 15. So

50:50

anyway, we have, we have, we missed

50:52

a weekend at Maralago or something. So

50:55

we have, so we have, so he's,

50:57

he's, he's providing direction, and then he's,

50:59

you know, you know, providing explicit accountability

51:01

measures and then he's empowering us to

51:03

go do it. I mean that's what

51:06

you want in a leader and so

51:08

that part's been great but we so

51:10

we unbanned the ban we got the

51:12

equivalent of a third of the lower

51:14

48 back on the table again we

51:17

did that about six weeks ago and

51:19

then last week we announced that we're

51:21

having the first lease sale and people

51:23

that aren't the oil and gas industry

51:25

wouldn't understand but when there's a lease

51:28

sale it's an auction. People bid, companies

51:30

bid and when they win the bid.

51:32

Guess what they do. They write a

51:34

check to the federal government. They pay

51:37

you. Not for the minerals, they pay

51:39

you for the opportunity to develop the

51:41

minerals. Then they go build like a

51:43

12 billion dollar offshore platform. They take

51:45

all the risk, they hire all the

51:48

people, they do all the smart geologic

51:50

work, and then they start producing, and

51:52

when they produce, then we get a

51:54

percentage of the royalties, we, the federal

51:56

government, we get paid as being a

51:59

partnership for the minerals, and then some

52:01

of those are directed towards things like

52:03

coastal restoration. I mean, most of the

52:05

conservation that's happening around the... Gulf of

52:08

America is paid for by the oil

52:10

industry. You kill that thing, you kill

52:12

offshore, and you kill all the revenue

52:14

that goes into all the projects that

52:16

people would. love to have, whether it's

52:19

fish and wildlife or reserves. So anyway,

52:21

it's a business and we're in the

52:23

business and those companies that are doing

52:25

that, they're our customers. If they're writing

52:27

a check to us, I treat them

52:30

in North Dakota, I treated them as

52:32

customers and we're treating them as customers

52:34

and we're treating them as customers and

52:36

we're treating them as customers now and

52:39

we're treating them as customers now and

52:41

that's as opposed to we're treating them

52:43

as the enemy. They don't stop doing

52:45

it someplace that is. less and better

52:47

for adversaries and worse for Americans. So

52:50

we're in we because we do it

52:52

cleaner safer smarter healthier here than anywhere

52:54

else people should insist they should be

52:56

insisting the public should be insisting that

52:58

all the energy is developed in the

53:01

United States no question if you care

53:03

about the planet you would insist it

53:05

but in previous administration adopted sort of

53:07

a mentality where they shut all those

53:10

things down and then had things like

53:12

electric vehicle mandates where we had to

53:14

offshore basically the entire production of all

53:16

of it and ensure that we are

53:18

entirely reliant on adversaries. As you said,

53:21

I mean this is like the... China

53:23

controls 85% of the refining of rare

53:25

earth minerals that the EV strategy was

53:27

built upon. I mean, you know, if

53:29

you're on team EV you were under

53:32

the Biden administration, you're on team China.

53:34

Yeah. What percentage of the Chinese... energy

53:36

budget goes to restoring American coastline. I

53:38

just got a curiosity. I'll tell you

53:41

what they are doing. They did build,

53:43

they built in the last year, they

53:45

brought on line 94 gigawatts of coal-powered

53:47

electricity. Okay, 1 gigawatt powers Denver. Okay,

53:49

94 gigawatts, that's more than, I mean,

53:52

it's 94 Denver's, or if you take

53:54

California plus New York, California and New

53:56

York don't generate for their state 94

53:58

gigawatts, and you know, so the last

54:00

hundred years of electrification to build out

54:03

the systems for California, New York, China

54:05

did that in a year. that's who

54:07

we're competing against. And they're spending hundreds

54:09

of billions on hydroelectric, and they're building

54:12

30 nuclear plants, and all of that

54:14

is because the war for who's gonna

54:16

win, the battle for AI supremacy, which

54:18

is effectively the World War III that

54:20

we're going into, it's gonna be fought

54:23

and won by who leads in AI.

54:25

They understand that AI, the constraint isn't

54:27

the software, the constraint is the electricity.

54:29

And we could win it on the

54:31

tech. because we've got better tech and

54:34

we could lose it because we haven't

54:36

figured out a way in this country

54:38

to build electricity enough of it fast

54:40

enough and that's what Chris Wright and

54:43

I are working on every day that's

54:45

that's why President Trump signed the energy

54:47

emergency is as much about the electricity

54:49

is it's about the price of the

54:51

pump I mean it's like we've got

54:54

to get going on electrical generations so

54:56

nice to hear somebody who's got this

54:58

thing all sort of like a business

55:00

guy who sort of understands how this

55:02

stuff works yeah the previous administration was

55:05

essentially just focused on cutting America off

55:07

from its own resources and I don't

55:09

know it might be because the president's

55:11

son is is going a meeting with

55:13

these countries that We're buying energy from

55:16

and losing the AI work too, but

55:18

it's just refreshing to see that someone

55:20

who understands the problems that this country

55:22

is facing, President Trump is put in

55:25

charge of fixing this. It's tremendous. Yeah,

55:27

we're going to take a quick break

55:29

when we come back with the Interior

55:31

Secretary Bergham, which I like, I just

55:33

like the ring. Secretary Bergham. I feel

55:36

like, you know, we're sort of, I

55:38

feel like a part of it at

55:40

this point. We've come so far. We've

55:42

watched all of this. Anyway, listen, everybody

55:44

this week, concern, thoughtful, at least top

55:47

of mind about a new tariff policy

55:49

coming out. There's a big role for

55:51

what it is that you do within

55:53

the context of that. Let's just get

55:56

your broad thoughts about where we're at

55:58

with the tariff policy. Well, I'd say

56:00

that what people are focused on. is

56:02

the short term and they're focused on

56:04

a market reaction, this kind of seems

56:07

what everybody's been focused on the last

56:09

few days, as opposed to the underlying

56:11

transformational shift that's occurring. And this is

56:13

pretty typical. Markets often miss the big

56:15

shifts and they react short term. And

56:18

in the perspective I would bring is

56:20

not really as Secretary of Interior,

56:22

but from the mid 90s till the,

56:24

December of 2016, the day before I

56:27

was sworn in as governor, was when

56:29

I resigned as a from my last

56:31

public company board, a chairman of software

56:34

company. So for 20 years, I was

56:36

at... always at least on one,

56:38

sometimes two, because as CEO, chairman,

56:40

corporate officer, or public companies. So

56:43

going through 20 years of quarterly

56:45

earnings, one of the things that

56:47

I learned during that time is

56:50

you don't build great companies and

56:52

you don't have great outcomes if

56:54

you're focused on the stock price

56:56

tomorrow. And particularly when we're competing

56:59

at someone like China who's thinking,

57:01

you know, a hundred years out,

57:03

and then we're going to make

57:06

decisions. global exchanges, they all had priced

57:08

into their model that they were going

57:10

to continue to be able to sell

57:12

into the world's largest market that U.S.

57:14

unimpeded, well they protected their own markets.

57:16

So if anybody's, you know, got crocodile

57:18

tears for the overseas markets, you know,

57:21

having a down day, yeah, they're having

57:23

a down day because we've just leveled

57:25

the playing field. I mean, that's like,

57:27

that should be like expected as opposed

57:29

to, I'm shocked. Like, no, I mean,

57:31

it was built into their business models,

57:33

some people that you know develop more

57:36

onshore and less offshore they're going to

57:38

have different reactions they're going to have to

57:40

adjust some of their business models and I

57:42

get that people are feeling like it came

57:44

it came too quickly and they weren't expecting

57:46

it President Trump's been talking about this thing

57:49

not for for weeks or months or years

57:51

you've been talking about it for decades and

57:53

and you go you know go back and

57:55

watch the clips from the 1980 he's been

57:57

talking about this so it is a readjust

58:00

because we in what's going to happen

58:02

and I think now we're over 50

58:04

countries have called and said whoa who

58:06

we'd like to renegotiate I mean April

58:09

2nd wasn't the end. It was the beginning.

58:11

It was the beginning of a bunch of negotiations

58:13

where all these trade deals that people would do,

58:15

we'd go around and we'd never get anywhere. We'd

58:17

still end up with a thing where our market

58:19

was open and their market was closed. And so

58:21

it's very simple. I mean people have an opportunity

58:24

to level the playing field, drop their tariffs, and

58:26

do that. And then the other thing I would

58:28

point out, which is that there's been very little

58:30

discussion, but energy is not in any of any

58:32

of any of these. There's no tariffs

58:34

on energy flowing or going I mean

58:36

and as it should be because you

58:39

know we're that's important to point out

58:41

it's very important because it's a huge

58:43

part of the economy and it's part

58:45

of what we plan on doing is

58:47

selling more energy to our friends and

58:49

allies and we're not there's no tariffs

58:51

on any energy that might be coming

58:53

from our neighbor to the North Canada

58:55

that's you know they've got certain production

58:57

that's useful for our refineries we buy

58:59

it from them we you know sell

59:01

our stuff to the Europeans I mean

59:03

The energy markets are one places where

59:05

we're doing a lot of value added

59:07

here in the US. You know, we

59:10

sell refined products around the world. You

59:12

know, it's one of the industries that

59:14

was smart enough and innovative enough that

59:16

we didn't kill it. Like we killed

59:18

mining, you know, we killed timber, we're,

59:21

you know, we're trying to kill agriculture

59:23

half the time. I mean, manufacturing, we

59:25

killed an offshore, all those things. So

59:27

the one industry that's functioning at quite

59:29

a high level, which is all the

59:31

energy industries, you know, that stuff is

59:34

excluded, but nobody's talking about that,

59:36

but that was a smart move

59:38

by President Trump to exclude that,

59:40

and that's, and so I think

59:42

the bottom line on this thing,

59:44

the smart money is... is like

59:46

wow this is a huge opportunity

59:48

there's a a complete readjusting and

59:51

a leveling of the playing field

59:53

these tariff barriers everyone's like oh

59:55

they're going up no they actually

59:57

could be coming down and and

59:59

he's also President Trump's been super clear,

1:00:01

which is if you got a manufacturing plant,

1:00:03

if you're Toyota, if you're Dusan, if you're

1:00:05

any of these companies that are, you know,

1:00:07

Japan, Korea, Germany, if you build your car

1:00:10

here, there's no tariff on that. There's no

1:00:12

tariff on something that's manufactured here. Which is

1:00:14

the whole point. Which is, you know, this

1:00:16

gets manufactured because we learned during COVID how

1:00:18

vulnerable we were to all these supply chains.

1:00:20

That was eye opening. Yeah, and now the

1:00:22

general public actually knows what a

1:00:25

supply chain is, and they understand

1:00:27

how radically we went too far

1:00:29

to become completely dependent on our

1:00:32

adversaries for many of these supply

1:00:34

chains. So this is a reordering

1:00:36

of that, and again, I'm long-term

1:00:39

very bullish, and when you take

1:00:41

a look at the trillions of dollars

1:00:43

of capital that's coming into this country,

1:00:46

it's going to be fantastic. And then

1:00:48

when they say... Wow, well what are

1:00:50

we going to do about labor?

1:00:52

Well, because, you know, because we've got

1:00:54

people that are, you know, cutting or

1:00:57

sewing or stitching shoes or something in

1:00:59

some foreign country at a low labor

1:01:01

price. Well, this is the time. This

1:01:03

is, you know, we're going to, AI

1:01:05

is going to drive robotics. It's going

1:01:07

to drive efficiency. The people working in

1:01:09

a factory in the US are not

1:01:11

going to be at a sewing machine.

1:01:13

You know, they're going to be programming

1:01:15

or working with a roboticotic. uh... sewing machine

1:01:17

i mean that i mean that's like

1:01:19

right there but we the future is

1:01:21

right at our fingertips uh... and the

1:01:23

idea that if seventy saying oh we're

1:01:25

gonna lose access to you know low-cost

1:01:27

cheap foreign labor You know, they're living

1:01:30

in the old economy. The AI revolution's

1:01:32

coming and it's coming here rapidly. And

1:01:34

this is a big advantage for the

1:01:37

US. We've got, we have 10 million

1:01:39

jobs open in our country. China has

1:01:41

got quite high unemployment among 18 to

1:01:44

25 year olds, even with college degrees.

1:01:46

And the AI revolution happening in their

1:01:48

country puts, you know, the automation, that

1:01:51

puts their people even more out of

1:01:53

work. Here, it just brings us back

1:01:55

into having less labor pressure on pricing

1:01:58

up. because we'd finally have. I

1:02:00

mean, you know, like a paying job.

1:02:02

Yeah, like in North Dakota, I get

1:02:04

this in North Dakota, we had the

1:02:06

lowest unemployment in the country, like most

1:02:08

months. It was like less than 2%,

1:02:10

you know, 2%, it's like there was,

1:02:12

you know, tens of thousands

1:02:14

of jobs open for like anybody that

1:02:16

you know any group of people that

1:02:18

might have been looking for a job

1:02:20

you know that creates pressure on labor

1:02:22

going up and instead we're like well

1:02:25

how are we going to solve this

1:02:27

what we need is more automation so

1:02:29

you go to place like North Dakota

1:02:31

that doesn't have natural in migration the

1:02:33

level of automation you see it have

1:02:35

natural in migration the level of automation

1:02:37

you see in a company's there instead

1:02:40

of like oh I need ten welders

1:02:42

no you got one guy that's running

1:02:44

a but that's where innovation and technology

1:02:46

comes together and it's really a remaking.

1:02:48

So when we're onshoring, we're not trying

1:02:50

to bring... You're not doing 1950. No,

1:02:52

we're not bringing, we're not, the reason

1:02:54

we left was to get access to

1:02:57

low-cost labor. When it comes back, these,

1:02:59

these, the factories are going to be

1:03:01

so sophisticated and so capable. That's what

1:03:03

anybody's building today and that's what advanced

1:03:05

manufacturing is. And by the way, with

1:03:07

these AI data centers that are going

1:03:09

in that are enormous electrical power users,

1:03:12

we're manufacturing intelligence. This is the highest

1:03:14

value for a kilowatt hour in human

1:03:16

history and humankind, just because it's one

1:03:18

thing like run the lights in the

1:03:20

lights in the studio or cook your

1:03:22

dinner. It's another thing to manufacture. generalized

1:03:24

intelligence, which takes a lot of power.

1:03:27

It takes a lot of power, but

1:03:29

it also creates terms out of value.

1:03:31

I mean, the next versions that are

1:03:33

coming out program better than... that literally

1:03:35

everybody but the very top I've heard

1:03:37

some of the top programmers in the

1:03:39

country say there may be 50 people

1:03:42

left that actually can program or 50

1:03:44

mathematicians you're talking about you know point

1:03:46

zero zero one of the humans left

1:03:48

that are actually better than this so

1:03:50

now you've got a low-cost thing that

1:03:52

can program it can do math that

1:03:54

speaks you know 27 languages and it's

1:03:57

like virtually free and that can be

1:03:59

an assistant for anybody that's working in

1:04:01

a factory or working in an office?

1:04:03

I mean, it's remarkable over at the

1:04:05

concept. It's such a breath of fresh

1:04:07

air to hear you talk about this,

1:04:09

because so many people have been wrapped

1:04:11

around the axle with the idea that

1:04:14

somehow their view and not really totally

1:04:16

understanding or maybe being a critic of

1:04:18

President Trump. They're like, I want to

1:04:20

go back to Youngstown, Ohio, Ohio, 1950.

1:04:22

And it's not that. I mean, what

1:04:24

you're talking about here is the next

1:04:26

generation. of an economic boom in the

1:04:29

United States and why this is

1:04:31

a critical piece to it. Like

1:04:33

I think that is a piece

1:04:35

that has been missing. 100% yeah

1:04:37

I mean like the critics that

1:04:39

you see especially online and from

1:04:41

the left we're trying to insinuate

1:04:43

this is trying to create sweatshops

1:04:45

in America where you look at

1:04:47

examples like how Tesla manufactures a

1:04:50

car compared to how cars were

1:04:52

manufactured 20 years ago their outputs

1:04:54

like five or ten times the

1:04:56

old have massive robots that they're doing

1:04:58

building the cars. It's just in the

1:05:00

same way technology if America can remain

1:05:02

the leader in that technology just can

1:05:04

be an efficiency multiplier. Totally. Duncan you

1:05:07

have some? Well I think it goes

1:05:09

back to his earlier point though is

1:05:11

like you only get those efficiencies with

1:05:13

the technologies that you dominate when it

1:05:15

comes to energy production in this country.

1:05:17

And that's why these two things are

1:05:19

so linked and why it's so important

1:05:21

you know that they got a guy like you doing

1:05:23

what you're doing. reassuring these jobs. It's

1:05:25

like you need to be able to turn

1:05:28

the lights on. You need all of this

1:05:30

power for all of those large language models

1:05:32

in order to run all of those programs

1:05:34

constantly, constantly. Like, you know. We always say energy

1:05:36

security is national security, thanks to you.

1:05:38

But it really is true, especially when

1:05:40

it comes to the innovation, comes with

1:05:42

AI. Yep. And the beautiful thing about

1:05:44

everything Duncan said is right. I mean,

1:05:46

the battle's going to come down to

1:05:48

electricity, but we have this, we do

1:05:50

have issues with our grid. We have

1:05:52

grid stability issues, but when we were,

1:05:54

when the whole climate extremism, let's do

1:05:56

solar and wind, which is intermittent, unreliable,

1:05:58

unreliable, unaffordable, very expensive. to stick it

1:06:00

all in a place like North Dakota

1:06:03

and then we got to build the

1:06:05

thousands of miles of transmission lines I

1:06:07

mean good luck doing that I mean

1:06:10

you know because you know I say

1:06:12

pipeline you say protest I say transmission

1:06:14

line you know you say you know

1:06:16

you say protest I mean it's like

1:06:19

durable is your next election yeah building

1:06:21

linear infrastructure became almost impossible in this

1:06:23

country under the Biden administration but And

1:06:25

I've been through a few pipeline protests

1:06:28

myself, as you know, as governor, but

1:06:30

we have, but if you build a

1:06:32

data center in a place that's got

1:06:34

stranded natural gas, where you're manufacturing intelligence,

1:06:37

stranded natural gas, so you got low-cost

1:06:39

energy, build it in a place that's

1:06:41

a little colder, that's good, because that's

1:06:43

part of the cost, is cooling them

1:06:46

down, so head north, my friends. And

1:06:48

you do those two things, and then

1:06:50

your output, you're manufactured intelligence? it goes

1:06:52

to market on a fiber optic cable.

1:06:55

I mean, nobody's protesting those yet. Maybe

1:06:57

we'll see the first one next year.

1:06:59

Don't give any ideas. Like, no, like,

1:07:01

if this cable can't go in this

1:07:04

interstate right away. Listen, I think that's

1:07:06

one of the best explanations that I've

1:07:08

heard over all of this stuff and

1:07:11

sort of knitting together what it is

1:07:13

that you're doing in your day job

1:07:15

with this broader economic policy. Can we

1:07:17

do some fun stuff? Like our guys,

1:07:20

we like to laugh. This is cutting-edge

1:07:22

technology. I mean, this is where you're

1:07:24

going. I mean, this is like the

1:07:26

future. I'm concerned. The future is the

1:07:29

past. The dire wolf. Yes. Now, this

1:07:31

is like a long extinct wolf that

1:07:33

my understanding is native to your native

1:07:35

lands in some ways in North Dakota

1:07:38

that is grossly larger than your average

1:07:40

wolf. Can we put up graphic three?

1:07:42

Okay, so so how cool is this

1:07:44

so that's a human six foot tall

1:07:47

human That's a dire wolf. It's three

1:07:49

and a half. It's seven feet long.

1:07:51

Yeah for just the listeners. They have

1:07:53

the gray wolf at two and a

1:07:56

half feet about six feet long the

1:07:58

dire wolf three and a half feet

1:08:00

Seven feet long and they compare it

1:08:03

to a six foot tall human. You

1:08:05

can you can literally ride that thing

1:08:07

in a battle. All right so this

1:08:09

thing has been extinct but there's an

1:08:12

outfit called colossal biosciences which does this

1:08:14

sort of thing that I'm a little

1:08:16

concerned with and I'd like the secretary

1:08:18

to give me a reason why I

1:08:21

should feel more comfortable about a seven-foot

1:08:23

long wolf that they've now basically through

1:08:25

the miracle of science brought back to

1:08:27

our planet. what they have and this

1:08:30

is this is a breakthrough the explorers

1:08:32

club based in New York global they

1:08:34

give they give out a premier recognition

1:08:36

essentially a flag like for first man

1:08:39

on the moon first person on the

1:08:41

moon you know first person to the

1:08:43

depths of the ocean they're actually giving

1:08:45

this a flag I mean the floors

1:08:48

club this is this is like a

1:08:50

breakthrough you recreated the dire. Yeah, the

1:08:52

extinction because the technology that they've created

1:08:54

could be applied across all endangered species

1:08:57

and and we've got an issue I

1:08:59

mean so this this is we have

1:09:01

an issue which is political issue around

1:09:04

the endangered species which that that list

1:09:06

lives inside of the Department of Exterior

1:09:08

slash interior yeah okay so and and

1:09:10

I and I've learned I've learned in

1:09:13

my new role that the the endangered

1:09:15

species act is a little bit like

1:09:17

the hotel California once you're in you

1:09:19

are never you never leave you never

1:09:22

leave okay you're on that thing 97%

1:09:24

of the species that have gone on

1:09:26

that list have never come off you're

1:09:28

in it until you every last cow

1:09:31

in the Midwest. And then the gray

1:09:33

wolf could come off or something. And

1:09:35

then we'll visit, then we'll invent a

1:09:37

larger wolf. Yeah. Or then we have,

1:09:40

you know, the grizzly bear, which they

1:09:42

keep moving the goalposts, you know, if

1:09:44

we have a thousand, now we have

1:09:46

two thousand. Well, maybe this is an

1:09:49

alternative to the endangered species. Well, it

1:09:51

is. It is. Because I think the

1:09:53

only thing I'd like to see become

1:09:56

extinct is the endangered species list itself.

1:09:58

go away because now you've got a

1:10:00

way because part of where you know

1:10:02

when you need biodiversity if you get

1:10:05

down to the end of species life

1:10:07

and we've got you know less than

1:10:09

a couple hundred they're in zoos you

1:10:11

may not have the biological diversity these

1:10:14

these these colossal as a technology where

1:10:16

they can engineer to be able to

1:10:18

create more foundation stock if you will

1:10:20

without changing the you know it actually

1:10:23

improves the health of the species so

1:10:25

there's hope now for any anybody that's

1:10:27

on the endangered species list ought to

1:10:29

be cheering because like Wow, there's now

1:10:32

a way where we literally don't never

1:10:34

have to worry again about anybody on

1:10:36

that list ever actually going extinct. Could

1:10:38

we get some of these dire wolves

1:10:41

down to like East Texas to maybe

1:10:43

take on the feral hogs? Yeah. I

1:10:45

think it could be a cage match.

1:10:47

It'd be great. I'd be like, I

1:10:50

love to. Would pay to see that

1:10:52

for sure. We could call that fight.

1:10:54

Yeah. But this and I think again,

1:10:57

part of what we have to think

1:10:59

were. where what do you call it

1:11:01

science fiction meets reality but you know

1:11:03

a game of Thrones played a huge

1:11:06

role in this thing and the company

1:11:08

that has this really sophisticated technology the

1:11:10

first person who wasn't part of the

1:11:12

scientific team that got to see a

1:11:15

dire wolf puppy was George Martin who

1:11:17

created they brought him up they brought

1:11:19

him up and I think he I

1:11:21

think you think he sat they had

1:11:24

the they had the throne he sat

1:11:26

in the throne with the. See that

1:11:28

is smart marketing. So I have one

1:11:30

I've won't ask any any cried I'm

1:11:33

told to I have one ask on

1:11:35

this. Congratulations the dire wolf. But can

1:11:37

we prioritize like I want if we're

1:11:39

gonna bring back animals can they be

1:11:42

delicious ones? Yeah. No. I would like

1:11:44

something they can be. Can we get

1:11:46

some of those? I don't know. I

1:11:49

don't know how the dodo bird or

1:11:51

is a. It was on their list.

1:11:53

It's like number two on the list.

1:11:55

And part of I know this is

1:11:58

because in a beautiful, clean, lignite, coal

1:12:00

field in North Dakota, where we do

1:12:02

some of the top reclamation in the

1:12:04

world, they were. With the big thing

1:12:07

there's like what's this big white thing

1:12:09

was a woolly mammoth no kid came

1:12:11

out of the ground and it's about

1:12:13

the same age these we're not talking

1:12:16

dinosaur 55 million dire wolf and woolly

1:12:18

mammoth were around during the last ice

1:12:20

age so like only 12,000 five hundred

1:12:22

years ago and they're genetically super similar

1:12:25

to the wolf's ear. They're genetically, a

1:12:27

woolly mammoth is like an elephant, elephant

1:12:29

DNA plus fur. And one of the

1:12:31

things, your listeners could go online, there

1:12:34

is, there is, they, as a prototype

1:12:36

in the lab, they created a woolly.

1:12:38

Mouse. Oh, yeah, no, we can get

1:12:40

this. So that was the same guy.

1:12:43

So they're, they're, so anyway, but they're,

1:12:45

the woolly mammoth is within sight. So,

1:12:47

you know, in a, in a future

1:12:50

near you, you could be coming to

1:12:52

the North Dakota badlands, staying at like

1:12:54

an Ammon resort, looking over the badlands,

1:12:56

and then have dire wolves and woolly

1:12:59

mammoths out there, and maybe we could,

1:13:01

don't come before the, Theodore Roosevelt Museum

1:13:03

opens because I mean I'd put those

1:13:05

on the grounds as well. I mean

1:13:08

that would be terrific. Yeah if you're

1:13:10

thinking about like an appetizer plate in

1:13:12

the main lobby. And think the rattlesnakes

1:13:14

would be excited about this too. They

1:13:17

wouldn't have to be all that they

1:13:19

could have like billboards like you know

1:13:21

eat more beef like the rattlesnakes would

1:13:23

be eat more eat more woolly mammoth.

1:13:26

Any time Burgam comes to town the

1:13:28

rattlesnakes not happy. But I'm glad you

1:13:30

may comfortably you may comfortably comfortably comfortably.

1:13:32

slid in the mention of the TR

1:13:35

library. That was very comfortable. You know,

1:13:37

yeah, and it's still on. It's going

1:13:39

to be over four days now. There's

1:13:41

so much demand. You guys may have

1:13:44

to plan for four days over the,

1:13:46

over the 4th of July time in

1:13:48

2026. He's like, bad news is your

1:13:51

wife's going to leave you. Good news

1:13:53

is, great show. My wife was like,

1:13:55

maybe we should take our kids up

1:13:57

there. Oh, there we go. Yeah, she

1:14:00

is, she's all about it. She's all

1:14:02

about it. talked about it last weekend.

1:14:04

That's a better story. She was like

1:14:06

we have to go. Yeah, it's going

1:14:09

to be amazing. And I'm not I'm

1:14:11

not trying to jump anything but the

1:14:13

that area near the theater Roosevelt National

1:14:15

Park the only park named after a

1:14:18

person not a place is an official

1:14:20

dark skies area. So two words drone

1:14:22

show. Yes. And then you want to

1:14:24

if it's hyphenate I'm not sure if

1:14:27

it's a third or forwards but mind

1:14:29

blowing drone drone show. I mean, no,

1:14:31

no, but seriously, think of, think of,

1:14:33

think of, at the end of the

1:14:36

TR riding across the sky on horseback

1:14:38

with the American flag. I mean your

1:14:40

kids would be like, it would be

1:14:43

an experience they would never forget. You

1:14:45

can't eat it. I think America should

1:14:47

just send Bergum out with like Willie

1:14:49

Lohman style. Yeah. Like a suitcase and

1:14:52

just go country to country. Be like,

1:14:54

well wait till you hear about this.

1:14:56

Yeah. I mean I buy anything this

1:14:58

guy's selling. The last thing I want

1:15:01

to get to. I know it's the

1:15:03

real reason you wanted to work in

1:15:05

this administration or any administration. NDS you.

1:15:07

Yeah, very exciting. A big deal. Yeah,

1:15:10

they're going to be here. They're going

1:15:12

to be here on, actually tomorrow. And

1:15:14

it's, and it's, and it's exciting. And

1:15:16

not the first time they've been here,

1:15:19

but great. The President Trump's invited on

1:15:21

the N. S.U. Bison, just to make

1:15:23

sure for all your listeners, it's spelled

1:15:25

B-I-S-O-N. It's pronounced B-I-Z-O-N. Yeah. No, I

1:15:28

mean, no, no, no, it's like there's

1:15:30

like there's like there's like there's like

1:15:32

there's like there's like there's like there's

1:15:34

like there's like there's like there's like

1:15:37

there's like there's like there's, it's, it's,

1:15:39

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

1:15:41

it's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's,

1:15:44

there's, there's, there's, there's, Yeah, plural for

1:15:46

fish is fish. Plural for bison is

1:15:48

bison. Bison. Well, they've captured their tenth

1:15:50

national FCS title. They did. And how

1:15:53

sweet it was against our neighbors from

1:15:55

Montana. When you get to beat up

1:15:57

on an arch rival, your neighbor, that's

1:15:59

pretty fun. It was a heck of

1:16:02

a game. I mean, Cam Miller, the

1:16:04

quarterback that North Dakota State has, is

1:16:06

incredible. He also. like out dual sudure

1:16:08

Sanders in week one when they played

1:16:11

Colorado I know I remember that yes

1:16:13

I mean people don't understand how much

1:16:15

talent there is no it's been that

1:16:17

way for a long time in fact

1:16:20

ten times and I was at that

1:16:22

game in Colorado Catherine I were on

1:16:24

the field on the field and it's

1:16:26

going back and forth and it comes

1:16:29

down to the last play and it's

1:16:31

a hail Mary and our guy catches

1:16:33

it and we're on the field so

1:16:36

we couldn't see the angle we saw

1:16:38

him catch it and go down and

1:16:40

go down and he landed like on

1:16:42

the the half-yard line. Yeah. I mean,

1:16:45

I mean, I mean, as opposed to

1:16:47

in the end zone, because we would

1:16:49

have won the game on the last

1:16:51

play of the game. So that was

1:16:54

that was a thriller too. But, you

1:16:56

know, it touched on Tommy, the quarterback

1:16:58

for Montana State, incredible athlete. And they

1:17:00

were favored in that championship game. They

1:17:03

were. They were. And of course, well,

1:17:05

you put a bison up against a

1:17:07

bobcat. I don't know what the outcome

1:17:09

is going to be. I mean, one

1:17:12

way is a ton and runs 35

1:17:14

miles an hour. I mean, it's a,

1:17:16

the other one isn't. Can't do either

1:17:18

of those two things. Yeah. So it

1:17:21

was, but it was great. It's a

1:17:23

great rivalry with our, with my neighbor.

1:17:25

Governor Gienforte too. So it's good. Gienforte,

1:17:27

Danes, like I hope you took some

1:17:30

stuff off of him for that win.

1:17:32

Yeah, well we and we had, and

1:17:34

we, we do, we do bets, you

1:17:37

know, back and forth on some of

1:17:39

these things and I was, you know,

1:17:41

betting them about, you know, why don't

1:17:43

we bet, you know, buys and steaks?

1:17:46

Because we eat everything. I love it.

1:17:48

Listen, thank you so much for doing

1:17:50

what you're doing. And I mean that

1:17:52

sincerely. Since the moment we met you,

1:17:55

we thought, oh gosh, there's not a

1:17:57

whole lot of more people you want

1:17:59

in government and sacrifice and the considerable

1:18:01

sacrifice that you have to go about

1:18:04

the business of doing it. But you

1:18:06

see the world broadly, a lot of

1:18:08

life experiences, including right at home in

1:18:10

North Dakota, that gives you. is sort

1:18:13

of an element of perspective on what

1:18:15

you're doing now and I know it's

1:18:17

a lot of work but thanks a

1:18:19

bunch really really honestly appreciate it. Well

1:18:22

great being with all of you and

1:18:24

you guys do a fantastic job too

1:18:26

and you have fun doing it and

1:18:29

it's thanks for everything you're doing to

1:18:31

help America understand what's going on in

1:18:33

this administration because we're absolutely putting America

1:18:35

first. Thank you. Thank you. And I

1:18:38

mean just an absolute treat to have

1:18:40

him here on the variety program and

1:18:42

the detail that he used to describe

1:18:44

the tariffs and everything that we're talking

1:18:47

about here today is something I haven't

1:18:49

heard on television and here on the

1:18:51

ruthless variety program you hear it. What

1:18:53

I love about the way he describes

1:18:56

the tariffs and re-industrializing the United States,

1:18:58

which I think we sort of alluded

1:19:00

to in our first segment, was... you

1:19:02

know, jobs that we bring back to

1:19:05

the United States, it ain't going to

1:19:07

look like 1950. It's like you're actually

1:19:09

going to be bringing back jobs that

1:19:11

are going to be good paying, high

1:19:14

paying jobs in the future of technology

1:19:16

with automation and with robots doing a

1:19:18

lot of work. I mean, that's just

1:19:20

the reality is that parallel to this

1:19:23

re-envision of the American economy, we're also

1:19:25

going through this boom with AI and

1:19:27

automation. And like, if you're going to

1:19:30

look... you know, 50 years from now,

1:19:32

but what the American economy is going

1:19:34

to look like in 1850. I also

1:19:36

like the game plan, right? So it...

1:19:39

The game plan that he lays out

1:19:41

here is yes, you want to onshore

1:19:43

more of these jobs We want to

1:19:45

onshore more manufacturing no question about it

1:19:48

But it does look different for all

1:19:50

the reasons that you you explain that

1:19:52

it's AI and that these manufacturing plants

1:19:54

are going to be far more productive

1:19:57

and people are going to have different

1:19:59

kinds of jobs in servicing base, but

1:20:01

also that it takes a lot of

1:20:03

energy, which is why We have prioritized

1:20:06

domestic energy supply that the rest of

1:20:08

the world cannot compete with. If you

1:20:10

have an advantage, fuck and use it.

1:20:12

And that to me is like, I

1:20:15

get it. I immediately get it. Because

1:20:17

if this thing was just that easy,

1:20:19

just about having people, China would be

1:20:22

forever fine. Right? Right? Yeah. But the

1:20:24

fact that you have people with certain

1:20:26

expertise that you want to try to

1:20:28

reinvigorate in an economic standpoint that requires

1:20:31

X. that the rest of the world

1:20:33

can't supply, well now you got something.

1:20:35

Right. It's not about having the most

1:20:37

people, it's about being the most productive.

1:20:40

Yeah, it looks like an industrial revolution

1:20:42

2.0, rather than just sort of like

1:20:44

a wouldn't it be nice if we

1:20:46

had a Youngstown Ohio again? Yeah. Right?

1:20:49

That's a holistic approach. Yeah. And that,

1:20:51

I just, he's the only one that's

1:20:53

been able to explain that to me

1:20:55

in any real way. Like I've liked

1:20:58

the elements of what the other secretaries

1:21:00

have said and I've got, I pieced

1:21:02

it all together, but I keep getting

1:21:04

kind of hung up on components of

1:21:07

it. He's sort of painted a picture

1:21:09

for me. It's terrific. Yeah, and our

1:21:11

listeners are lucky to get that. Yeah,

1:21:13

totally, really, really, really good. Okay. Okay.

1:21:16

It just puts you in a good

1:21:19

mood. It does. I will say that

1:21:21

the one piece of crowning the next

1:21:23

biggest hack in all political journalism that

1:21:25

a Little bit of a tough point

1:21:28

for the ruthless Friday program is that

1:21:30

we haven't been able to play King

1:21:32

of the Hill Yeah we don't want

1:21:34

to prejudice the jury here and there's

1:21:37

a lot to work with. So folks

1:21:39

we are on the final four if

1:21:41

you are as you are hearing this

1:21:44

voting is wrapping up you have to

1:21:46

vote Go to X go to my

1:21:48

profiles pinned right there to vote. We've

1:21:50

got the final four right in front

1:21:53

of us The matchups are kind of

1:21:55

get graphic five, please We've got Nicole

1:21:57

Wallace versus joy read. I mean these

1:21:59

are some serious matchups now to have

1:22:02

the four biggest hacks. And then, graphic

1:22:04

six, please. We've got Jake Tapper versus

1:22:06

Margaret Brennan. Like, this is now, I

1:22:08

mean, this is more than a final

1:22:11

four. These are titans of the hack

1:22:13

industry. Blue Bloods. Yeah, I mean, it

1:22:15

really is. And there's some surprises here,

1:22:17

like I didn't see Five Seed Tapper

1:22:20

coming into the final four. I certainly

1:22:22

didn't see Joy Reed getting some past

1:22:24

some of the other CBS heft that

1:22:26

we had in this competition. And now

1:22:29

they're going against people who I think

1:22:31

we predicted to be in the final

1:22:33

four, right? Nicole Wallace, Margaret Breton, everybody's

1:22:35

talking about this Brennan squad, but as

1:22:38

we saw in the final four... Duke

1:22:40

got beat. They did. Anything can happen.

1:22:42

Anything can happen? They did, but I

1:22:45

don't think that's going to happen here.

1:22:47

I think Margaret Brennan is a PTP

1:22:49

or baby. I think she's going to

1:22:51

win. A diaper dandy too, by the

1:22:54

way. I think this is her first

1:22:56

time. This really is a diper dandy.

1:22:58

Yeah. She's going to beat the old

1:23:00

guard and tapper. And then I bet

1:23:03

she faces Joy Reed in the final,

1:23:05

and I bet she just slaughters Joy

1:23:07

Reed. That's my guess. Well, she's got

1:23:09

to kind of be hoping for that

1:23:12

sort of match up with read out

1:23:14

of the media now, having lost her

1:23:16

job. There's less to work with contemporaneous.

1:23:18

If you have like a big seed

1:23:21

and a lot of momentum going in,

1:23:23

what you don't like is somebody you

1:23:25

can make up ground that is like

1:23:27

a Nicole Wallace. Like a recency bias.

1:23:30

Right. But she's now available for that.

1:23:32

Right. Right. Yeah. If I'm Brennan, I

1:23:34

really want to face Troy Reed. to

1:23:36

your point. It's like if Nicole Wallace

1:23:39

is up there doing some brainworm shake

1:23:41

on National Television. Right, exactly. So it's

1:23:43

really anyone's game, but you gotta go

1:23:46

to comfortably smugs account on X and

1:23:48

vote right now. I think voting will

1:23:50

close it like 1 p.m. 2 p.m.

1:23:52

Eastern time. And then we'll have our

1:23:55

championship. And you'll have the championship match

1:23:57

up. Absolutely love it. And thanks to

1:23:59

Burgam for bringing up the old dire...

1:24:01

Wolf. Yeah, by the way. I mean

1:24:04

that thing scares the shit out of

1:24:06

me. Turns out like he's like instrumental

1:24:08

in creating new animals. I fully support

1:24:10

it. Bring it back. Sounds like a

1:24:13

Michael Crichton novel. It's just not something

1:24:15

we're comfortable with. At least some of

1:24:17

us. We'll have to figure out what

1:24:19

the banana pool is for the... I

1:24:22

think it's a 30 out 6. To

1:24:24

be honest with you. I'm not sure

1:24:26

that does the job. Well I didn't

1:24:28

get a chance to ask him, I

1:24:31

wanted to ask him, how do you...

1:24:33

kill a dire wolf and I just

1:24:35

really think it's a rifle when it's

1:24:37

not painted. The only way to kill

1:24:40

a dire wolf is a couple thousand

1:24:42

years of breeding that turns them into

1:24:44

a husky. Into a regular dog. Oh,

1:24:47

it might be right. All right, so

1:24:49

remember our question today. Do you trust

1:24:51

Trump on tariffs? Do you think that

1:24:53

this is part of the plan that's

1:24:56

gonna work? Interested to hear your thoughts.

1:24:58

Subscribe and like to the YouTube channel

1:25:00

while you're at it. This has been

1:25:02

fun. We'll be back at you Thursday

1:25:05

with that smug. I think we've done

1:25:07

it. I think so. Banger of an

1:25:09

episode. Gentlemen, thank you so much, Secretary

1:25:11

Bergham. Always one of our favorite guest.

1:25:14

Thank you to the listeners. Go to

1:25:16

that YouTube, like and subscribe if you

1:25:18

have not yet. So, until next time,

1:25:20

minions, keep the faith, hold the mind

1:25:23

and on the lips. We'll see you

1:25:25

Thursday. Stay ruthless!