0:00

I don't think that there is anybody

0:02

who better defines a generation

0:04

of morally and intellectually bankrupt

0:06

Americans better than Taylor Lorenz. Inviting

0:08

them. And I don't mean that

0:11

in terms of an under information.

0:13

I don't mean it in terms

0:15

of like, oh, you know, people

0:17

just don't follow the news. They

0:19

don't actually think critically about things.

0:21

They don't have access to education.

0:24

They're all, it was so they're

0:26

just like on iPads or whatever.

0:28

It's the opposite. It's people like

0:30

Taylor Lorenzo went to a Swiss

0:32

boarding school, leftist beyond the map,

0:34

who try to interact in a

0:37

public way to make themselves famous

0:39

and then seem like they have

0:41

some sort of a handle on

0:43

information and facts. We will unleash

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Mighty Good Tuesday to you.

1:33

Welcome back to the ruthless

1:35

variety program. A lot going

1:37

on around here. Listen, fellas,

1:39

you'll hate to hear it.

1:41

But it turns out that

1:43

our corporate media, our

1:45

mainstream media, quote unquote,

1:48

has still not gotten a sense

1:50

of where the American people are

1:52

on an awful lot of

1:54

things. You're kidding. No. No,

1:57

it's difficult. It's hard news

1:59

to handle. We're coming off a

2:01

hack madness turn. It's like we

2:03

just had a tournament about how

2:05

to arrange these folks are and

2:07

they're like, not deranged enough. Not

2:09

deranged enough. I feel like every

2:11

time we have hack madness, there's

2:13

somebody who is upset. that they

2:15

weren't in a final four or

2:17

an elite eight so they make

2:19

a real run it's almost like

2:22

to prove us like they belonged

2:24

and and to our listeners that

2:26

they should have been voted for

2:28

because like the last week has

2:30

really been something yeah and not

2:32

just what but like I think

2:34

in our episode we discussed the

2:36

championship and how Margaret Brennan congratulations

2:38

hack of the year how we're

2:40

like notable you know folks who

2:42

had fallen off from being like

2:44

dynasties or perennial contenders and we're

2:46

like till Loreens you know She's

2:48

like, didn't get involved. That's what

2:50

champions do. That's what champions do.

2:53

They see what Margaret Brennan accomplished

2:55

this season and they're like, I

2:57

have to work my ass off

2:59

if I want to get there.

3:01

And clearly, it's what they're up

3:03

to. It's one thing to just

3:05

totally misrepresent a Trump administration. And

3:07

that's a day-to-day occurrence. We're sort

3:09

of like accustomed to all of

3:11

that. But much more pernicious is

3:13

this like constant sort of validation

3:15

of violence in society. We've seen

3:17

it. We saw it during the

3:19

Hamas protests on campus. We saw

3:21

it during the George Floyd protests

3:24

across the city that somehow everybody

3:26

else had to sit inside with

3:28

a mask, but you know. when

3:30

everybody's out burning down the cities

3:32

that that was a it was

3:34

a right a fundamental American right

3:36

that in fact cured COVID didn't

3:38

apparently it was it was the

3:40

burning of police stations well that's

3:42

the thing is you know the

3:44

CDC said you can't catch COVID

3:46

if you're riding you know that's

3:48

like the one way to perfect

3:50

Any infection? But remember what the

3:52

left said and the lead up

3:55

to these to this year basically

3:57

is words are violence, but actual

3:59

violence is not bad. No, right,

4:01

right. I mean, it's a little

4:03

bit of a, you know, imbalance

4:05

on that. But you know, I

4:07

mean, yeah. hypocrisy Be damned here

4:09

we are and and we're gonna

4:11

go through a whole bunch of

4:13

that we got a great show

4:15

though hell the show we're gonna

4:17

get not only to Two really

4:19

conspicuous incidents of media Just trash

4:21

media stuff that we'll get to

4:23

on the front end. We're also

4:26

gonna talk some variety and then

4:28

we have an interview today that

4:30

is fantastic all of you know

4:32

we're into sports Fellas like sports,

4:34

we watch sports, we used to

4:36

play sports, although, you know, I

4:38

have my reservations about grown adults

4:40

who have children playing competitive sports.

4:42

You can play golf and you

4:44

can play tennis. But like my

4:46

view is, that's it. Well, it's

4:48

it's it's tough. I mean, it's

4:50

really tough to play competitive sports

4:52

the way you did when you're

4:54

a kid and not injure yourself.

4:56

So you're walking into the office

4:59

on a Monday with an ankle

5:01

brace or knee brace and everybody's

5:03

like what happened? And you're like,

5:05

oh no, I was playing basketball

5:07

all day Saturday and all day

5:09

Sunday and you're like. What did

5:11

your wife say about that? Yeah.

5:13

Well, it also kind of like

5:15

dovetails with this conversation that we've

5:17

had about grown adults taking up

5:19

like kids parks and stuff like

5:21

that or like reserving time on

5:23

baseball fields to play softball when

5:25

you're 55 years old. Like dude,

5:27

give it up. Yeah. I understand.

5:30

That's what makes you tick like

5:32

find something. You know, one of

5:34

the legends of radio Jim Rome

5:36

used to have a softball guy.

5:38

Great bit on softball guys. Yeah.

5:40

Yeah, oh totally. Also, I just

5:42

wanted to say, Johnny and I,

5:44

last weekend, were able to be

5:46

a part of a golf tournament

5:48

that went to a good cause.

5:50

We were raising money for stuff,

5:52

but we went down and participated

5:54

with a bunch of good dudes

5:56

in a golf tournament that I

5:58

happened to win. Well, my team

6:01

won and they were named the

6:03

murder donkeys. Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, they

6:05

won. That's terrific. They beat my

6:07

team, which was called the White

6:09

House Press Corps. At least the

6:11

White House Press Corps took another

6:14

L, right? But you know what?

6:16

It was close. We had the

6:18

lead going into the last day, and

6:20

they came away with it. Good stuff.

6:22

Yeah, well, he had a couple of

6:25

sandbaggers from Furman University, which we

6:27

hadn't. like world-class humans, but both

6:29

of them listed handicaps that were

6:31

like, you know, like 10 or

6:33

so. And for those of you

6:36

who are golf enthusiasts, you know,

6:38

it's kind of an average, you

6:40

golf a lot, but it's like

6:42

in the average of what golfers

6:45

do who participate an

6:47

awful lot. And both of these guys shot

6:49

in like the low 70s. consistently

6:51

throughout which leads me to believe

6:54

as somebody was opposing their team

6:56

that there was a little bit

6:58

of a handicapped sandbag yeah involved

7:00

like maybe 10 plus strokes for

7:03

sure there was no sandbagging but

7:05

despite all of that the murder

7:07

donkeys overcame it and ultimately dealt

7:09

Ashbrook's team a loss and I'm

7:11

happy I'm proud of that I

7:14

feel I feel very very good

7:16

and I'm glad that everybody else

7:18

is on board with the murder

7:20

donkeys Listen, the NCAA commissioners are

7:22

here. We had the opportunity

7:24

to do something that we don't

7:26

normally do, which is trot up

7:28

to Capitol Hill as the commissioners

7:31

of the SEC, the Big Ten,

7:33

ACC, and the Big Twelve. He's

7:35

like some of the most powerful

7:37

people in all of sports.

7:40

went up to Capitol Hill to advocate

7:42

for nil reform. They want a federal

7:44

solution for name, image, and likeness. For

7:46

those of you who are college sports

7:48

fans, you know that this is sort

7:50

of thrown a little bit of a

7:52

wrench into things in terms of what

7:54

you are accustomed to seeing on the

7:57

field with your teams and whatnot. That

7:59

and the transfer. and all of it,

8:01

they're talking about it. And as a

8:03

sports fan, like this is something that

8:05

you ought to pay attention to because

8:08

they rarely do get people like this

8:10

on Capitol Hill discussing in unison, because

8:12

they're competitive with each other, right? But

8:15

in unison, talking about how to reform

8:17

collegiate sports in a meaningful way, and

8:19

they need some federal help to do

8:21

it, you've heard us talk to Tommy

8:24

Tuberville. old ball coach about a lot

8:26

of that. We talked to Tom Green,

8:28

another old ball coach about some of

8:31

that. So you know it's an interest

8:33

of ours, but for those of you

8:35

who are sports fans, you're not going

8:37

to want to miss that at the

8:40

back end of here. Because it's a

8:42

good interview. Yeah, it is. And it's

8:44

such an important conversation because this is

8:47

an inflection point in college sports and

8:49

all of these states have different rules

8:51

and they need a federal standard. And,

8:53

you know, Congress is not an easy

8:56

place to get anything done. But they

8:58

had a plan that they'll talk about

9:00

later on in the show about how

9:03

they think they can achieve a standard.

9:05

Other than Smug insisting that the ACC

9:07

guy makes the moves against... UNC. They

9:09

should be held accountable. As an NC

9:12

state guy. You know, other than that,

9:14

I thought it was a pretty productive

9:16

conversation. It was just fascinating. I don't

9:19

think you even need to be necessarily

9:21

like a sports fan or college sports

9:23

fan. to get a lot out of

9:25

it because it is just extremely fast.

9:28

It's rare that you get an issue

9:30

brought before Congress from a group who

9:32

isn't asking for like taxpayer money or

9:35

anything. They're like, we just want to

9:37

make sure we have a standard set

9:39

of regulations for everyone to compete by

9:41

and to protect students and make sure

9:44

everything is just taking care of without

9:46

like 900 different jurisdictions. Makes a lot

9:48

of sense. Yeah, they're trying to. protect

9:51

the integrity basically of their respective conferences

9:53

and how sports goes when it starts

9:55

to look a little professional. And so

9:57

it's a fascinating conversation. We also have

10:00

Caitlin Sutherland here from the Americans for...

10:02

public trust. She's somebody you've heard from

10:04

a couple of times on the program

10:07

already. We turned to her when we

10:09

start looking into some of this like

10:11

anti-corruption stuff that's going on. Her specialty

10:14

and what they've done so well is

10:16

rooting out foreign funding of political apparatus

10:18

on the left-hand side. We've discussed this,

10:20

the like left-wing dark money issue, specifically

10:23

the international type, and like

10:25

Elon's even started. weighing in on

10:28

this and becoming aware of this problem

10:30

because like Hans Zirkweiss, we've

10:32

named checked him a million times on the

10:34

show, is a Swiss national who's pouring

10:36

money into left-wing causes in America.

10:38

It's not just George Soros. This

10:40

has become like the thing for

10:42

them to do is just... pump

10:44

money into left-wing causes great to

10:46

have someone who can who can

10:48

fill in our audience on that

10:50

totally and somebody is doing something

10:52

about it which is terrific anyway

10:54

let's get into the main thrust

10:56

of the program and that is

10:58

the incredible media takes that we've

11:01

had about a couple of events

11:03

that have happened uh... here in

11:05

the last week the first one you

11:07

may have seen uh... and read about

11:09

the arsonist that took down the

11:11

governor's mansion in Pennsylvania

11:13

where Governor Shapiro, Josh

11:15

Shapiro, resides. Now his name

11:17

rings a bell obviously because he

11:20

was on the short list for

11:22

Kamala Harris as a VP and

11:24

hilariously they didn't choose him. He

11:26

was probably the most talented Democrat

11:29

in the country at some, you

11:31

know, at least speaks to. I'm not

11:33

saying that he is a moderate by

11:35

any stretch of the imagination because he's

11:38

not, but he at least speaks to

11:40

a center left coalition in a way

11:42

that like Tim Wals does not. Yeah, no,

11:44

and he obviously has more talent than

11:46

Tim Wals, but it's amazing to me

11:48

how this guy tries to present up

11:51

his moderate and then you look and

11:53

see the things he does in the

11:55

state of Pennsylvania. It's left, left, left,

11:57

left, left, left. It's like how most...

12:00

Democrats have gone in the

12:02

last decade or so. Yeah,

12:04

well anyway, apropos of not

12:06

that, his poor situation there

12:08

is it was incredible. So

12:10

the governor's mansion in Pennsylvania

12:12

was attacked violently by a

12:14

deranged individual who broke windows

12:17

to get access to the

12:19

governor's mansion and proceeded to

12:21

set multiple fires that destroyed

12:23

an unbelievable It was serious.

12:25

This was not like just,

12:27

you know, oh, some room

12:29

burned or small, this was

12:32

very, like seeing photos from

12:34

this, it was a very

12:36

serious fire. Yeah, it's incredibly

12:38

serious. His family, his family

12:40

were home at the time,

12:42

which begs the question, how

12:44

is it that this could

12:46

ever happen? I mean, we

12:49

are living in a world

12:51

where there were two assassination

12:53

attempts on Donald Trump's life

12:55

in the last campaign. We

12:57

have seen information flow be

12:59

perverted in this country to

13:01

a point where he's radicalized

13:03

people beyond belief. And we

13:06

think a huge culprit of

13:08

that is the sort of

13:10

traditional media that is providing

13:12

a whole bunch of incentive

13:14

structure for people to sort

13:16

of excuse violent acts out

13:18

of political concerns. You don't

13:21

agree with somebody's politics. We'll

13:23

treat that a little less

13:25

significantly than we do if

13:27

you agree with our politics,

13:29

essentially. That's exactly what they

13:31

do. And so what happened

13:33

was that they arrested, ultimately

13:35

made an arrest of the

13:38

arsonist, a guy named Cody

13:40

Ballmer who's accused of the

13:42

firebombing of Governor Shapiro's home.

13:44

If you can put up

13:46

graphic one, please. So this

13:48

cap posted this thing on

13:50

social media. It was shared

13:53

from a radical leftist, what

13:55

is it, girl, what is

13:57

it? The name of this

13:59

group is Riot Girls, that

14:01

he was a part of

14:03

their group, I guess, on

14:05

Facebook, and that is what

14:07

they are. for the folks who are just listening,

14:10

it's like a, what are those needle points, I guess

14:12

you call them? Yeah, cross stitch. Cross stitch? There's your

14:14

first sign. Yeah, it's a Molotov that says, be the

14:16

light you want to see in the world, which is,

14:18

like, the Molotov is essentially the universal symbol of left-wing

14:20

politics at this point. Like, like, anarchist left, type point

14:22

of views, like the stuff that you saw on college

14:25

campuses during their Hamas. protests. Right. As if you needed

14:27

any more evidence that this guy was a lunatic because

14:29

he's starting a fire to the

14:31

governor's mansion in Pennsylvania, one look

14:33

at that cross stitch and one

14:36

piece of information that he's a chart,

14:38

he's a part of something called riot

14:40

girls, you know that he's touched. Which

14:43

is, it says, it's a quote, underground

14:45

feminist punk movement. Okay. So that guy's

14:47

getting that thing in his feed. Right.

14:49

So it gives you a good indication

14:52

of the mental. health of this

14:54

individual as if the act itself

14:56

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Anchor to learn more. Well, anyway,

15:32

he had shared at a couple

15:35

of points multiple left-wing anti-capitalist posts

15:37

on his fast, on his Facebook

15:39

page. according to the New York

15:41

Post, and his home appears to

15:44

have been foreclosed on last year

15:46

according to court documents. Balmer appears

15:48

to have expressed far-left beliefs on

15:50

social media in recent years and

15:53

attacked both Trump and Joe Biden. So

15:55

this isn't like some sort of partisan

15:57

leftist, this is like anarchist left stuff.

16:00

which as you see from like

16:02

the riot girls or whatever

16:04

it is like increasingly like this

16:06

is like AOC's politics you

16:08

know like the whole like Joe

16:10

Biden isn't left enough and

16:12

as you're seeing here they're saying

16:14

Shapiro's not left enough like

16:16

they've kind of the leftist kind

16:18

of built this problem of

16:20

their own of where they have

16:22

radicalized and encouraged further and

16:24

further left -wing views that this

16:27

is what happens well and recall

16:29

I mean there are two

16:31

primary reasons why Governor Shapiro was

16:33

not given the nod in

16:35

addition to what Democrats say where

16:37

they say like oh she

16:39

just didn't jive with them like

16:41

nonsense the two primary issues

16:43

that that were obvious to anybody

16:45

who was watching is that

16:47

at the time there is a

16:49

huge constituency within the Democratic

16:51

Party that didn't like the Jewish

16:53

perspective particularly as it pertained

16:56

to Hamas and there is a

16:58

constituency within the Democratic Party

17:00

that is large and they don't

17:02

want to admit it but

17:04

it's large that just doesn't appreciate

17:06

that the second piece is

17:08

that this is somebody who actually

17:10

thinks at some level that

17:12

a capitalist market -based economy is

17:14

at least good for him to

17:16

tax which you know but

17:18

but it it's the system that

17:20

we have here and he

17:23

hasn't wholesale rejected the idea of

17:25

a market -based economy which you

17:27

know for business owners and

17:29

whatnot in Pennsylvania is giving people

17:31

at least some comfort that

17:33

he's not trying to like socialize

17:35

the entire free market of

17:37

Pennsylvania which again not good enough

17:39

for the far left. Rent

17:41

your earlier point about how the

17:43

mainstream media sort of encourages

17:45

this or entertains it on your

17:47

first point about anti -semitic movement

17:50

inside the Democratic Party. Remember

17:52

the code that they used to

17:54

use against Shapiro in the

17:56

mainstream press is oh Kamala will

17:58

have a Michigan problem. She

18:00

won't be able to get all

18:02

the votes she needs in Michigan.

18:04

And why were they saying that?

18:06

Because a bunch of people... Because

18:08

a dearborn Michigan. Exactly. And so

18:11

they were talking around it to

18:13

try to protect this left-wing base

18:15

so Democrats... Yeah, it became a

18:17

tactical discussion. Like imagine having a

18:19

national... We covered this... to like

18:21

all lengths during the course of the

18:23

campaign but it was amazing how the

18:26

media didn't cover this is the fact

18:28

that there was a huge constituent base

18:30

constituency that Joe Biden had a problem

18:32

with before they made the switch that

18:34

had everything to do like being pro-homas

18:37

which is a wild I mean they're

18:39

literally in a terror organization has been

18:41

designated as such by the American government

18:43

but there was a pro-homas constituency that

18:45

showed up in all these college campuses

18:47

across the country and we saw them

18:50

demonstrated whatever. And the Democrats thought

18:52

that that was so significant, that

18:54

it was the lead contributor to why

18:56

it was that Joe Biden's poll numbers were

18:58

lagging. It wasn't the fact that he couldn't

19:00

put two sentences together. They were fine with

19:03

that. They knew that that's the base. Yeah,

19:05

it wasn't that he couldn't show up before

19:07

9am or after 5. It wasn't that he

19:09

couldn't do more than two events. a year,

19:11

a day, it was why the

19:13

progressive left was reluctant to support

19:16

him was this very issue. And

19:18

so every time it came up,

19:21

you're exactly right. Some actually said,

19:23

well, there's a Michigan problem with

19:25

Josh Shapiro. Michigan problem means we

19:28

have a huge constituency within the

19:30

Democratic Party. predominantly in places like

19:32

Dearborn Michigan that are just anti-Semitic.

19:35

Right? The media talks about them

19:37

like it's seniors in Florida or

19:40

soccer moms or something like that.

19:42

And what does that lead to? I mean we've

19:44

got a whole host of clips from the

19:46

media going nuts on this stuff. Like it's

19:48

just a demo to be to be dealt

19:50

with. I mean imagine the inverse of this

19:52

like 10 or 12 and they try to

19:54

do this to Donald Trump over the last

19:56

eight years too but it's like the way

19:58

media describes like white supremacy. as if it's

20:01

part of a coalition that

20:03

Republicans have ever courted. Like

20:05

of course not. Of course

20:07

not. The difference is, it

20:09

is the same thing off

20:11

the other side, but they

20:13

treated as though it's like

20:15

a, well, it's a coalition

20:17

that you need to build.

20:19

Right. Exactly. No, we understand

20:21

that they actually want wish

20:23

death and associate themselves with

20:25

a movement that thinks the

20:27

existence. Right. Of Jewish people

20:29

in the Israeli state is

20:32

a problem. They're just NASCAR

20:34

dads. No, I mean, it's

20:36

true. It's true. But that's

20:38

the way this was talked

20:40

about. Anyway, all of this

20:42

is a precursor to where

20:44

we're set with this nonsensical

20:46

idiot, taking this incredibly ridiculous

20:48

action of lighting the governor's

20:50

house on fire. Also, how

20:52

does NBC news cover it?

20:54

Clip one, please. Bummer faces

20:56

charges of attempted murder, terrorism,

20:58

aggravated arson, and aggravated assault,

21:00

according to court documents. Past

21:03

social media posts from Bummer

21:05

showing him critical of the

21:07

Biden administration, writing in one

21:09

post, Biden supporters shouldn't exist.

21:11

Mm-hmm. There it is. And

21:13

this is the thing that

21:15

they do, these bastards. They're

21:17

trying to infer that, or

21:19

they're trying to make the

21:21

audience think, oh, wait, he

21:23

was just, he was anti-biden,

21:25

which must mean he's a

21:27

Trump guy. Yeah, it's it's

21:29

it's by omission. And the

21:31

thing is that they went

21:34

through those so this is

21:36

very important. They went through

21:38

the social media posts of

21:40

this this crazy guy. And

21:42

the takeaway that they want

21:44

the public to see is

21:46

he was anti Joe Biden.

21:48

However, that image that we

21:50

showed you earlier of like

21:52

the Molotov and how it

21:54

belonged to this radical feminist

21:56

group. Guess who also independently

21:58

verified that? It was NBC

22:00

News. So they know. They

22:02

know that this guy was

22:05

a left-wing nut job, but

22:07

they present it to the

22:09

nightly news to their audiences.

22:11

anti Joe Biden. Which wants

22:13

you to think, oh, it's

22:15

a right wing lunatic. No,

22:17

in fact, it's not the

22:19

case. Wolf, do we have

22:21

any other graphics or anything

22:23

else about this guy stuff?

22:25

All right, well, I mean,

22:27

look, it goes on. Like,

22:29

he's a certifiable psychopath. Clearly.

22:31

I mean, this is somebody

22:33

who is. a crazy person.

22:36

His politics are basically just

22:38

an anarchist, but he has

22:40

associated himself with left-wing stuff,

22:42

which has come at the

22:44

Biden administration from a leftist

22:46

position. And here you go.

22:48

NBC News. Well, it's inferring

22:50

bi omission. that somehow this

22:52

is a Trump supporter. Right.

22:54

I mean, great job guys.

22:56

Come on. Listen, it's not

22:58

to be outdone. In our

23:00

next segment, you're not going

23:02

to believe what we have

23:04

seen here. It was on

23:07

CNN by one of the

23:09

favorites here in the ruthless

23:11

variety program. Taylor Lorenz, outright

23:13

glorifying left-wing violence in a

23:15

way that is like jarring.

23:17

I mean, really jarring. We're

23:19

going to get to it

23:21

right after this. Now is

23:23

the time to unleash our

23:25

nation's energy, to create jobs,

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Americans. That's the power of

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America's oil and natural gas.

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Learn more at Lightson energy.org,

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paid for by the American

23:42

Petroleum Institute. And we're talking

23:44

about the way that the

23:46

left not just out of

23:48

political shading and a presentation

23:50

as we've seen just horribly

23:52

over the last, in none

23:54

of this, they learn zero

23:56

lessons. I mean, the politics

23:58

be damned. The larger... concern

24:00

that we have here in

24:02

the ruthless variety program is

24:04

the the piece the violent piece

24:07

that they just subtly shade into

24:09

justification we cover that a

24:12

little bit in segment one

24:14

but wait until you see what

24:16

we've got here there was a

24:19

CNN clip a mis-info nation

24:21

which in and of itself like

24:23

think about that show. Miss Inferno,

24:25

do you think that that's about

24:27

like COVID masks? Do you think

24:29

that, do you have any, right?

24:31

I mean, it is. It's about

24:33

the experts who signed, you know,

24:35

a letter saying that. Hunter Biden's

24:38

laptop is Russian disinformation. Yeah, just

24:40

about that. Do you think that's

24:42

what they cover? They're holding them

24:44

accountable? No, no. Something tells me

24:46

that's not what it's about. Yeah.

24:48

They're going to bring noted experts

24:50

on disinfo and not in the

24:52

way that you think people like

24:54

Taylor Lorenz. This show is hosted by

24:56

Donio Sullivan. I don't know him from

24:58

the Man on the Moon, but my understanding

25:00

is that this is, well, he's not somebody

25:03

who's on our on our team anyway. and wait

25:05

to see this clip, clip two please.

25:07

These millionaire media pundits

25:09

on TV clutching their pearls about

25:11

someone standing a murderer when this

25:14

is this is the United States

25:16

of America as if we don't

25:18

lionize criminals, as if we don't

25:20

have you know, we don't stand

25:22

murderers of all sorts and we

25:25

can give them Netflix shows. So

25:27

you're going to see women especially

25:29

that feel like, oh my God,

25:31

right, like here's this man who...

25:33

who's a revolutionary, who's famous, who's

25:36

handsome, who's young, who's smart, he's

25:38

a person that seems like this

25:40

morally good man, which is

25:42

hard to find. Yeah, I

25:44

just realized women will literally

25:46

date an assassin before they

25:49

swipe right on me, that's

25:51

where we are. And they're

25:53

so funny, forgot us, they're

25:55

talking about Luigi, the murderer.

25:57

Yeah. So this is, I mean,

25:59

it's... It's mind blowing to see,

26:01

this is on CNN, folks, this

26:03

is on CNN, they're having a

26:06

fun little conversation where Tilla Lawrence

26:08

is like, so you've got this

26:10

like handsome, intelligent, what did she

26:12

describe him as, like morally righteous

26:14

individual? We're talking about Luigi the

26:16

guy who murders people in broad

26:18

daylight. So this is the first

26:21

time I've seen this clip and

26:23

the other thing that caught my

26:25

attention was how she led into

26:27

it by saying, this is the

26:29

United States of America, we talk

26:31

about criminals as if that's good.

26:33

And it's just like, are you

26:35

kidding me lady? This guy, he

26:38

murdered a guy in cold blood.

26:40

The guy was from Iowa. Maybe

26:42

you don't like his company, but

26:44

he shot the guy in the

26:46

back. We had small kids, small

26:48

children. It's the most fucking cowardly

26:50

thing that anybody has done on

26:53

national television in a very, very

26:55

long time. And she's saying that

26:57

he's a hero. It's outrageous, dude.

26:59

It's so insane. And also hypocritical.

27:01

I mean, you can talk about

27:03

how she's like these millionaire media

27:05

pundits. Folks, Tilla Loreens attended attended

27:07

attended a 10 a year Swiss

27:10

boarding school like when she's trying

27:12

to talk. about like the rich

27:14

in this country, it's time to

27:16

hold them accountable. I agree, her,

27:18

number one. But to give airtime

27:20

to someone to be like, here's

27:22

the thing, and for her to

27:25

be the like expert that's brought

27:27

on to the show Miss Infonation,

27:29

right? And her opinion is like,

27:31

in America, we give shows to

27:33

serial killers on Netflix. It's like,

27:35

you may have missed the memo.

27:37

The purpose of the show isn't.

27:40

glorifying on this to be like

27:42

this crazy serial killer. Like you

27:44

think this, if you watch the

27:46

science of the land, you're like,

27:48

wow, serial killers are glorious, you

27:50

really, you know, there's a lot

27:52

of issues for you right there

27:54

at that point. True crime isn't

27:57

about identifying with the mass murderer.

27:59

You're not supposed to listen to

28:01

a true crime podcast and be

28:03

like, wow, this is cool. I

28:05

like this is thinking to themselves

28:07

like. Could I miss the tell-tale

28:09

signs of... psychopath. Right. Like could

28:12

this kind of thing happen in

28:14

my society? Like I can't possibly

28:16

identify with such a mania. She's

28:18

like, no, that's who we are.

28:20

We love them. We love the

28:22

people who kill all of these

28:24

people. I don't think that there

28:26

is anybody, let's get to CNN

28:29

in a second. I don't think

28:31

that there is anybody who better

28:33

defines a generation of morally and

28:35

intellectually bankrupt Americans better than Taylor

28:37

Lorenz. And I don't mean that

28:39

in terms of an under information.

28:41

I don't mean it in terms

28:44

of like, oh, you know, people

28:46

just don't follow the news, they

28:48

don't actually think critically about things,

28:50

they don't have access to education,

28:52

so they're just like on iPads

28:54

or whatever. It's the opposite. It's

28:56

people like Taylor Lorenzo who went

28:59

to a Swiss boarding school or

29:01

leftist beyond the map who try

29:03

to interact in a public way

29:05

to make themselves famous and then

29:07

seem like they have some sort

29:09

of a handle on information and

29:11

facts in society. And then they

29:13

go out and say shit like

29:16

that. And the idea that the

29:18

United States at any point is

29:20

comfortable with assassinating. a young CEO

29:22

is a father of young children

29:24

in broad daylight because the guys

29:26

he's hot and he is fun

29:28

and then she goes on to

29:31

say that he's you know essentially

29:33

morally good yeah she said you

29:35

know morally righteous guy I mean

29:37

just the whole idea behind it

29:39

I think is in and of

29:41

itself this this pervasive piece of

29:43

new media culture that we got

29:45

to get a handle on because

29:48

if you took our first story

29:50

that's a cat who was insane.

29:52

Clearly had mental health issues or

29:54

you wouldn't do shit like that,

29:56

but also struggling in life, probably

29:58

like disconnected from a larger society

30:00

and was interacting. with people who

30:03

provide credibility for insanity. This is

30:05

someone who has worked at the New

30:07

York Times, the Washington

30:09

Post, recently left the Washington

30:11

Post because they thought they

30:14

had larger economic opportunities

30:16

doing their own thing

30:18

and distributing all that

30:20

amongst the American people,

30:22

and then showing up as a

30:24

guest to speak with authority. Yeah.

30:26

About how the American people view an

30:29

assassin. Right. Of a father of

30:31

young children. I mean, this is,

30:33

how do you give air to shit

30:35

like this? Well, I think it shows

30:37

you everything that you were just talking

30:39

about. I think it also shows you

30:41

the disconnect between the elites in this

30:43

country and regular people out there in

30:45

the Midwest who are trying to make

30:47

a living. Even if you're a Democrat

30:50

in the Midwest, even if you voted

30:52

for Joe Biden, even if you voted

30:54

for Joe Biden. Under no circumstances are

30:56

you like, yeah it was a good

30:58

idea that that guy shot the guy

31:00

in the back? No circumstances. Somebody like

31:02

Taylor Lorenz is so rich and so

31:04

out of touch with normal people that

31:07

she thinks everybody is just someone to

31:09

be manipulated. We just do a Netflix

31:11

show, we manipulate them. We get them

31:14

the way we want them to vote

31:16

for Democrats and the most liberal thing

31:18

available. I'm telling you that normal people

31:20

listen to that and they're like, turn

31:23

it off. Yet. I say yet in

31:25

the sense of I think there's

31:27

a huge reason why we had

31:29

the first story lead into this

31:31

story, which is like you see

31:33

this left wing nut job go and

31:35

try to burn down the house

31:37

where Shapiro and his family are.

31:40

You see right there, Tilla Loren's

31:42

being like, this guy who killed

31:44

a CEO is morally good. It's

31:46

all kind of and that the

31:49

media specifically in that first

31:51

story didn't identify, oh, this guy's

31:53

a left-wing lunatic. They imply that

31:55

he's a Trump supporter. They're trying

31:57

to push the left-wing public further.

32:00

further left closer to radicalization you

32:02

see like the it's almost like

32:04

you know cause and effect right

32:06

there front of your eyes you

32:08

see NBC news presenting this information

32:11

of wow we don't know how

32:13

this guy just you know decided

32:15

to do this crazy attack no

32:17

idea and then you see on

32:19

CNN they're like tell us why

32:22

it's cool to shoot people what

32:24

does that what could that possibly

32:26

accomplish but to incentivize a certifiably

32:28

crazy person that there is fame

32:30

and glory in a life that

32:32

is otherwise completely devoid of it.

32:35

Right? I mean this is a

32:37

guy, Louisa, he grew up in

32:39

a privileged background and went to

32:41

school and was like, you know,

32:43

at elements in his life, like

32:46

relatively well adjusted, had some kind

32:48

of a... What appears to be

32:50

a mental health breakdown went off

32:52

the left-hand side of the map

32:54

and decided that murder in cold

32:57

blood a father of a young

32:59

family who ran a health care

33:01

company of which he knows very

33:03

little about other than he thinks

33:05

they're evil Right and and like

33:08

I just don't understand how he

33:10

giving voice to that at any

33:12

level provides important context to the

33:14

American people that this is News

33:16

and information you can use. No,

33:19

dude, it's such a good point.

33:21

And you think about major media

33:23

organizations like the Associated Press. They

33:25

take it upon themselves. We're not

33:27

going to call it Golf of

33:30

America. We're going to call it

33:32

Golf of Mexico. We're not going

33:34

to name these certain criminals. We're

33:36

going to do it our own

33:38

way. Yet. When it comes to

33:41

this guy, his name is in

33:43

there, his cause is in there.

33:45

Every little detail that supports the

33:47

left-wing agenda is exactly what they're

33:49

pushing. And I'm telling you, the

33:52

media is responsible for so much

33:54

more ill in our society than

33:56

they would ever admit to. And

33:58

it just persists. One thing when

34:00

we talk about it every day

34:02

about political framing,

34:04

it's another when you're

34:07

talking about actual violence.

34:09

Not to be outdone, third

34:11

story, CBS. So on 60

34:13

Minutes, they did this thing,

34:15

which we found absolutely hilarious

34:18

at some level. CBS is

34:20

talking about Mayan culture. And

34:22

they're trying to explain

34:24

historically what certain

34:26

things in. the Mayan area and the

34:29

Mayans did and like how are

34:31

all these things. Can we put

34:33

up graphic to please? We see how

34:35

the issue of sacrifice exists in both

34:37

cultures. It was a practice.

34:39

It's not that they were

34:42

violent. It was their way

34:44

of connecting with the celestial

34:46

bodies. What they're talking about

34:48

here in that quote. was

34:50

that they found the

34:53

ruins of an altar

34:55

that was used for

34:57

human sacrifice. Child sacrifice

35:00

specifically. And children specifically.

35:02

And their idea of

35:04

like cultural tolerance at

35:06

some level is so

35:08

predominant that they

35:11

have now green flagged. child

35:13

sacrifice because we don't understand

35:15

what it was that they were

35:17

trying to express. So they're kind

35:19

of like bringing back the Ralph

35:21

Northam playbook where they were like,

35:23

well listen, the child was provided comfort,

35:26

it wasn't violent, it was just sacrificing

35:28

the child after it was born, right?

35:30

This was an alter use for child

35:33

sacrifice that CBS News is like, experts

35:35

say it wasn't violent. You just got

35:37

to kill the kid and throw him

35:40

down a parent. It's a normal thing.

35:42

They're like, here's the facts. It was

35:44

an altar. And they did sacrifice. And it

35:46

was a way of connecting to their larger

35:48

culture and their gods and all of

35:50

that kind of thing. So did they

35:52

get an expert in archaeology or just

35:55

like someone from Planned Parenthood to be

35:57

like, you know what? Sometimes it's just

35:59

child sacrifice folks. It's insane and

36:01

it shows you why CBS

36:03

was overrepresented in this year's

36:05

hack madness. Yeah, it's insane.

36:07

But again, it goes just

36:09

to wrap this segment up

36:11

before we get into our

36:13

question of the day. It's

36:15

this moral relativism. It's this

36:17

bankruptcy of intellectual understanding of

36:19

his cultural embrace that we

36:21

all used to have in

36:23

the United States about our

36:26

values set. That you can somehow. try

36:28

to make the attack on Governor Shapiro's

36:30

governor's mansion a partisan

36:32

issue and shade by omission who

36:35

was responsible for it when you

36:37

know damn well because you're the

36:39

organization that uncovered it that this

36:41

was a crazy person who was

36:43

probably a left-wing anarchist, if anything.

36:45

It's the kind of thing that

36:47

you do by putting somebody like

36:50

Taylor Lorenz on the air who

36:52

can justify and glorify an assassin

36:54

of a father of young children.

36:56

It's the kind of thing that

36:59

you can do when you look

37:01

at ancient cultures and you're like,

37:03

yeah, they were pretty good. The

37:06

child sacrifices. You had to be

37:08

there. Yeah, it basically had to

37:10

be there. You know, like... If

37:13

you're doing that stuff consistently, it

37:15

is much more pervasive and much

37:17

more dangerous culturally than just simply

37:20

framing a political argument in a

37:22

negative way. Like this thing has

37:24

gotten really off the rails. Out

37:27

of hand. It has gotten. So our

37:29

question today is, how much of

37:31

political violence do you think? And

37:33

we've seen everything from shootings to,

37:36

you know, to Tesla. attacks to

37:38

all of these things that by

37:40

the way, there are far fewer

37:42

incidents that were associated in years

37:45

past that they made the number

37:47

one terror threat. Remember the Biden

37:49

administration? The number one terror threat

37:51

was domestic and it was right

37:54

wing white men. Remember they just

37:56

said that. They just straight up

37:58

said that far fewer incidents, fewer

38:01

and further between, harder to connect

38:03

than what it is that we're

38:05

talking about in the course of

38:08

six days. Right? And yet, this

38:10

is all just sort of information

38:12

news you can use. Incredible. So

38:15

how, our question of the day

38:17

for all of you is how

38:19

much does the media bear responsibility

38:22

for self- radicalizing? these crazy people

38:24

into left-wing attacks that they at

38:26

some point think are justified because

38:28

they're not commonly condemned in the

38:31

same way that all violence should

38:33

be. Right? I mean, it's a

38:35

good question. Great question. It's a

38:38

good question. When we come back,

38:40

we're going to get to your

38:42

comments from last episode. Who in

38:45

the new media should we have

38:47

on Ruthless? Remember, we like the

38:49

band. We like to party with

38:52

everybody. We bring everybody in Annaly

38:54

Winters. Great, big hit. Yeah. And

38:56

fellow podcast for Ted Cruz last

38:59

week. Yeah. There's an immediate. People

39:01

loved it. All of that coming

39:03

up right up right up for

39:06

this. from your car insurance to

39:08

your hospital bill. It's lawsuit abuse.

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Privileous lawsuits are costing every American

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suing President Trump. Not for justice,

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affordable usa.com. Paid by Make America

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Affordable Again. Okay,

39:57

so our question of the day.

39:59

and last Thursday after we had

40:01

a big new media day of

40:03

interviews that we had. By the

40:05

way, check that episode out. It

40:07

was pretty solid. Pretty solid. But

40:09

our question is, like, who else

40:11

in the new, like, who else in the

40:14

conservative side would you like to hear,

40:16

sit with the fellows and play a set?

40:18

Essentially. Your comments, remember you get a

40:20

like and subscribe in order for us to

40:22

read them, but when you do, we read

40:25

all of them and we pick a

40:27

few that we think are particularly interesting and

40:29

to do that we always start with

40:31

a voice. Okay, first one comes from Bright

40:33

Hawk. And Brighthawk writes, at 68 I'm

40:35

sliding down the foreside of the

40:38

hill of your listener demo with

40:40

people that I hear on podcasts

40:42

that I think would be good

40:44

on your show or Mary Catherine

40:46

Hamm. You can't have her on

40:48

enough. Yeah, I love that. Yeah,

40:50

Guy Benson, Duane Patterson, General Easy

40:52

Mober. long-time producer of the Hugh

40:54

Hewitt show, love that guy. Jim

40:57

Garrity, James Lilax, Hoveger, Vic Mattis,

40:59

Matt Cottonetti, Ed Morrissey, former Congressman

41:01

John Campbell, Kurt Schlichter, you can't

41:03

have him enough. Bethany Mandel, Salina Zito,

41:05

Byron York, just to name a few,

41:08

do any of them qualify as new

41:10

media? I don't know, but there you

41:12

go. It's so cool, you know what?

41:14

It's so cool about that. It's so

41:17

cool about that. Many of our listeners,

41:19

you know, you try to gather information

41:21

from a number of places and when

41:24

you see this sort of list of

41:26

people that, you know, we know very

41:28

well, many of whom have

41:30

been on the program before,

41:32

you understand how people are

41:35

just self-educating themselves on really

41:37

smart people that produce really

41:39

smart things, all good suggestions,

41:41

we will get to all of them, great

41:44

stuff. Smuggles, what have we got for

41:46

too? This one comes from Mel Varama.

41:48

They write next interview, Mike Rowe.

41:50

On their new listener, Hugh Hood, thank you

41:52

so much for that. Old enough to have

41:54

been laughing for the first 20 minutes. Proud

41:56

of my Senator Ted Cruz, the best. That's

41:59

awesome. So good. By the way, did

42:01

you see the hugest sign with Fox?

42:03

Excellent. You know I did not see

42:05

that. That is awesome. Just sign a

42:08

deal with Fox. Very, very good. For

42:10

both our good friends over at Fox

42:12

and for Hugh Hewitt, we think is

42:15

one of the most intellectually gifted. Oh

42:17

yeah. He's awesome. Of any conservative. I

42:19

mean, this is, you're talking about 10

42:22

to 10 type analysis. He's so good.

42:24

Perfect fit over there. That is just

42:26

an awesome deal. And do you guys

42:29

know where he's from. Oh boy, we're

42:31

gonna do this, it's an Ohio thing.

42:33

You had to do that. He happens

42:36

to be from Ohio, of course. Yeah,

42:38

but he's a Browns fan. That's okay,

42:40

we come together under certain circumstances. Oh,

42:43

it's really good. All right, so we

42:45

gotta get to some Friday. Would you

42:47

like to do some variety? I love

42:49

it. Smuggles, you picked one. Yes. That

42:52

I thought was particularly interested. I'd like

42:54

to eat your framing on it because

42:56

I don't know where this is going.

42:59

Uh, go right ahead. So this story

43:01

is, it says, mother arrested and held

43:03

in cell for, quote, confiscating child's iPad.

43:06

It says here, history teacher Vanessa Brown,

43:08

50, spent seven and a half hours

43:10

in a custody cell on March 26th

43:13

this year, following a claim she had,

43:15

quote, stolen two iPadsads, which were traced

43:17

to her mother's house in Surrey, yet

43:20

it transpired that the two devices belonged

43:22

to her daughters. And Miss Brown had

43:24

merely confiscated them to encourage them to

43:27

focus on their school work. A factory

43:29

police now acknowledged, she says, quote, I

43:31

find it quite traumatic. And even talking

43:34

about this now, at no point did

43:36

they, meaning the officers, think to themselves,

43:38

oh, this is a little bit of

43:40

an overreaction for a moment, confiscating temporarily

43:43

her iPads. popping over to her mums

43:45

to have a coffee. Just a complete

43:47

overreaction. That's her take on it. So

43:50

this is IBC, an outfit in the

43:52

UK, that is apparently come across a

43:54

story where a mom was arrested for

43:57

taking iPads. from her children. Yep. That's,

43:59

that's legit the way this thing went

44:01

down. So that is, that is what

44:04

happened. Some people say, might say that

44:06

that is a little too harsh by

44:08

the authorities, but Smug, you have been

44:11

very clear that there's too much iPad

44:13

involvement. So that, that kind of, you

44:15

know, you get my take on this,

44:18

is they should keep her locked up.

44:20

You give your kids iPads, what do

44:22

you think's going to have? You know?

44:25

All society has had to start dealing

44:27

with the kids that you've the kids

44:29

that you've raised that you've raised. via

44:31

iPad, right? Like nowadays, you see a

44:34

kid flipping out, whether it's in a

44:36

restaurant, whether it's on a plane. What

44:38

is the solution? Parents always attempt now.

44:41

They'll either hand them an iPad, or

44:43

the kids already got an iPad, and

44:45

they're like, I don't know what to

44:48

do. I'm out of ideas. I tried

44:50

everything. I gave the kid an iPad.

44:52

So you're saying because she initially gave

44:55

them iPads, not that she attempted to

44:57

take them away. is a jailable offense.

44:59

So here's the thing is you made

45:02

the monster and now you're like, oh

45:04

wow, how could this happen to me?

45:06

Do you ever feel like it's almost

45:09

like an S&L like 90s skit on

45:11

weekend update when we deal with these

45:13

kind of things? You like sit back

45:15

and you're like, and now for your

45:18

take. And he's like the conservative case

45:20

for drowning a puppy in the airport.

45:22

But I mean, this is, this is

45:25

so central to so many issues that

45:27

we have today. Parents have completely outsourced

45:29

their responsibility for almost a generation now

45:32

at this point to the iPad, where

45:34

they're like, hand a kid in iPad,

45:36

that'll solve the problem. I don't know

45:39

what I'm doing. I don't know how

45:41

to make a kid stop flipping out.

45:43

I don't know how to keep a

45:46

kid occupied. The child's brain is now

45:48

used to just like flashing lights and

45:50

going ham while they hold this. iPad,

45:53

they demand to be like fully stimulated

45:55

and going crazy at all times. So

45:57

like the child's growing up thinking the

46:00

purpose of my parents is to ensure

46:02

I'm entertained the entire time I'm awake.

46:04

Do you have any problem with

46:06

the fact that the cop's initial

46:08

reaction all of this was on

46:10

the children's side? I'm fine with

46:13

that. By any means necessary, punish

46:15

iPad parents. I don't care what

46:17

the offense is. Walk them up. Make

46:19

parents terrified of giving their kids

46:21

iPadsads. And then you know what

46:24

happens? All of a sudden society

46:26

starts healing. Oh, it's quite

46:28

a take. It's quite a

46:31

take. Did you know original

46:33

Medicare loses billions of taxpayer dollars

46:35

each year to waste fraud and

46:37

abuse? In fact improper payments to

46:40

hospitals and doctors are twice as

46:42

likely in original Medicare than in

46:44

Medicare Advantage. Alternatively Medicare Advantage offers

46:47

seniors more benefits at lower costs

46:49

promotes better health outcomes and saves

46:51

taxpayers $144 billion over 10

46:53

years through coordinated care. It's time

46:55

to protect Medicare Advantage and ensure

46:58

seniors get the best care while

47:00

protecting your heart earned tax. dollars.

47:02

We wanted to lead into

47:04

our conversation with the commissioners

47:06

of the SEC, the Big

47:08

Ten, the Big Twelve, and

47:10

the ACC. Most powerful commissioners

47:12

and all of collegiate athletics

47:14

with a little like precursor

47:16

for why it is that

47:18

all these people are up

47:20

here. You may have read about a

47:22

Tennessee quarterback completely. Guys a star. about

47:24

a huge star last year, propelled Tennessee

47:27

to the top of the national discussion,

47:29

nearly made the college football player. In

47:31

fact, they did make the college football

47:34

player from the expanded field. They weren't

47:36

at the top. But someone, they felt

47:38

like they were building the team around.

47:41

And the reports are that this guy

47:43

was basically offered a couple of million

47:45

dollar nil contract. And he wanted to

47:48

renegotiate after a good season. Which essentially

47:50

means that collegiate athletics is a annual

47:52

free agency. For all of these people

47:54

a guy makes a commitment as you

47:57

will hear the kind of dollars that

47:59

are allocated for somebody just in terms of

48:01

their education, their housing, their medical attention, all

48:03

of those things, hundreds of thousands of dollars

48:05

by a university making a commitment to a

48:07

kid like this, but he has a good

48:09

season, he wants to get back in it.

48:11

He wants to find a different value. Not

48:15

going to an outside corporate

48:17

entity to see if name,

48:19

image, and likeness are something

48:21

they can get impaid more,

48:23

which is the Supreme Court

48:25

decision that has rendered this

48:27

conversation relevant to collegiate athletics.

48:29

When they do that, what

48:31

the Supreme Court was talking

48:33

about essentially was ensuring that

48:35

kids who sell jerseys, kids

48:37

who have like a shoe

48:39

contract, kids who corporations want

48:41

to put in ads can

48:43

be compensated for their name,

48:45

their image, and likeness. Now

48:47

that has been perverted, and

48:49

all of these programs basically

48:52

tried to figure out how

48:54

to supplement anybody, any money that

48:56

you could get on an

48:58

open market for marketing a successful

49:01

player with some kind of

49:03

an income that would attract them

49:05

to come to their school

49:07

over somebody else's school. And you've

49:09

seen a bunch of different

49:11

states kind of like try to

49:13

come up with their own

49:15

incentives for people donating to these

49:17

collectives that ultimately pay these

49:19

players. And it's become a real

49:21

conundrum. Like basically if you're

49:23

a fan of most colleges and

49:25

university sports, you've seen players

49:27

that have been household names all

49:29

of a sudden end up

49:31

playing for arrival over the next

49:34

year because someone paid them

49:36

more or somebody, they have this

49:38

transfer portal you can get

49:40

out and they can essentially get

49:42

more from the school. Well,

49:44

these guys are all concerned about

49:46

this. And they think that

49:48

there is a real problem in

49:50

terms of A, perverting the

49:52

original intent of name, image, and

49:54

likeness, compensation, and ensuring that

49:56

there's a standard across their conferences

49:58

where all teams are basically

50:00

playing at the same competition level.

50:02

You're not creating state like. legislation

50:04

that incentivizes North Carolina over South Carolina or Florida or Florida

50:07

or Alabama or vice versa. And

50:09

so they took the really

50:11

unprecedented action of sitting down

50:13

with us for a long-form

50:15

conversation about all of this

50:17

stuff. I found it completely

50:19

fascinating fellows. It's amazing. Also

50:22

fascinating to me that conference

50:24

chairman at this point are like Fortune

50:26

50 CEOs. That's right. I mean in

50:28

and of themselves if the guy showed up

50:30

and they were running like Apple you wouldn't

50:33

be blown away by now. Not at all.

50:35

You know what I mean? So much talent.

50:37

It's got a resume that seems like

50:39

they would belong like they can run you

50:42

and it just shows you the power structure

50:44

and how that's changed. These are all television

50:46

contracts. They own the enforcement within collegiate

50:49

athletics now in a way that the NCAA

50:51

always used to do. And they were careful

50:53

not to like... imply that or shade

50:55

on the NCAA. But the fact that

50:57

they were there, the four of

51:00

them together who inherently compete not

51:02

just for titles and whatever, but

51:04

actual schools to go as realignment

51:07

has happened over the last few

51:09

years, is a pretty, I don't

51:11

know, it's a pretty incredible thing.

51:14

Anyway, take a look. You don't see the

51:16

fellows on Capitol Hill every day,

51:18

so when we are, you got

51:20

some very special guests. These guys

51:22

are the specialists of special

51:25

guests. The commissioners of the

51:27

four largest athletic conferences in

51:30

college athletics, welcome Jim Phillips

51:32

of the ACC. Listen, Big

51:35

Ten guy. We've got some Big

51:37

Ten guys. Tony Petite, welcome. Thank

51:39

you. Brett, you'll mark, thank you

51:41

so much. Thank you. It's been

51:44

fun to chat. And Greg Sankey,

51:46

SEC, we see you everywhere. The

51:48

SEC is... It just means more.

51:50

I take that as a win

51:53

right there. He's got the tagline

51:55

down. Well listen, gentlemen, any time

51:57

we get the four of you...

52:00

in one room agreeing on something. It

52:02

must be a big deal. I know

52:04

you all work well together. Typically conferences,

52:06

you have a competitive nature, but you're

52:08

all up on Capitol Hill. What's this

52:10

all about? Well, there's 500,000 student athletes

52:12

that are depending on us now and

52:15

in the future, and I think to

52:17

maybe level set this a little bit,

52:19

besides the GI Bill, no other group

52:21

has benefited more from scholarships and support.

52:23

than student athletes have. Access and affordability

52:25

to higher education has meant a lot

52:27

to these young men and women. And

52:30

as you look at the life of

52:32

a student athlete for all of us,

52:34

it's about making sure we continue to

52:36

create and modernize their experiences, provide benefits

52:38

for them to excel, and make sure

52:40

that they have a voice relative to

52:42

where we're going. Among many things that

52:45

we're trying to get accomplished, one of

52:47

the main things is to try to

52:49

get some federal help on some legislation

52:51

that will really help us sustain and

52:53

excel this enterprise, that means a lot.

52:55

Yeah, and so this is all basically

52:57

downstream of nil decision. You've had a

53:00

whole bunch of developments in this space

53:02

where student athletes compensated for name, image,

53:04

and likeness. Seems like a evolving topic

53:06

in the sort of infancy of this.

53:08

whole deal your job obviously is to

53:10

preside over the health and well-being of

53:12

not only your conferences but your student

53:15

athletes it's changing pretty quick and that

53:17

I mean this is this is for

53:19

everybody yeah look I think the settlement

53:21

that we hope will be approved shortly

53:23

you know allows us to use a

53:25

word that Jim just said modernize what

53:27

we're doing you know I think a

53:30

few years ago I'm relatively new to

53:32

the space two years in You know,

53:34

the idea of direct revenue sharing with

53:36

student athletes was probably something that wouldn't

53:38

have been thought of. You know, the

53:40

NIL stuff is still relatively new, as

53:42

you pointed out. So all of that's

53:45

happening. I think the help we need

53:47

here is to... who allow us to

53:49

take a system that we know is

53:51

better for student athletes. Everybody's committed to

53:53

it and try to get some protection

53:55

to actually operate it and go across.

53:57

And I think one thing people have

54:00

to also remember is that we do

54:02

compete across. And so we need rules

54:04

for everybody. And so we need rules

54:06

for everybody. And what's good for our

54:08

state has to be good for Carolina.

54:10

And you know, we show up in

54:13

these national championships, you know, the roster

54:15

is how you build them, how you

54:17

compete for players, because we compete for

54:19

student athletes, we compete for student athletes,

54:21

we compete on the field on the

54:23

field. you know, states are motivated to

54:25

provide competitive advantages and that's just a

54:28

whole nother, you know, problem we've been

54:30

dealing with the last few years. Like,

54:32

we've got to get some sort of

54:34

stability to actually operate something that we

54:36

know is going to be better for

54:38

student athletes. So I think that's the

54:40

big picture idea here is that this

54:43

is such a new, I mean, it's

54:45

like a new frontier of name, energy

54:47

likeness for student athletes that basically you're

54:49

trying to establish a universal set of

54:51

rules that the... General Idea here? I

54:53

think that at the end of the

54:55

day it's stability for our schools and

54:58

our student athletes and putting some parameters

55:00

around what you're seeing out there today.

55:02

You know, as Tony said, you know,

55:04

I've been here relatively a short period

55:06

of time as well, came from professional

55:08

sports. The one thing about professional sports

55:10

is that you have teams in every

55:13

market, but they're governed by the same

55:15

rules. And we don't have that right

55:17

now. Yes, tell me about that. I

55:19

mean, a bunch of states doing different

55:21

different things. So one of the things

55:23

that we're looking for on our trip

55:25

here is, you know, how do we

55:28

get federal preemption of some of those

55:30

state laws? So there's uniformity and standardization

55:32

across the ecosystem. So there's an even

55:34

playing field, if you will, for all

55:36

of our schools. Listen, we want to

55:38

compete, but we want to compete fairly.

55:40

Yeah, no, I think that's right. And

55:43

one of the interesting components to this,

55:45

when you mention 34 different states, 34

55:47

different rules, you're very clearly not governing

55:49

what people can be paid and when

55:51

they can be paid, you want the

55:53

same set of rules that each school

55:55

can operate under, Craig, is that sort

55:58

of? Yeah, the simple way to think

56:00

of... is what our student athletes deserve.

56:02

We boil it down to the essential

56:04

element of the participant. And so a young

56:06

person, having just left the final four,

56:08

wants to know it tip off, the

56:11

people in the other uniform are

56:13

held to the same standards that they're

56:15

being held to at the current time.

56:17

When you're lining up across from

56:19

the line of scrimmage in a football

56:22

game, same thing. And this is what

56:24

young people tell us all the time.

56:26

I want to know that. like competitors

56:28

are held to the same standards. And

56:30

if we're going to do this on

56:32

a state-by-state basis, if you bring to

56:35

the logical conclusion, the notion that each

56:37

state has its own rules, we don't

56:39

have national championships. We essentially have high

56:41

school type championships at the college level.

56:43

and the ability to have a college

56:45

football playoff a final four college world

56:48

series is predicated on national standards so

56:50

when you start to think through

56:52

the change that's happened it's around

56:54

name image and likeness and economic

56:56

activity it's gone further into seasons

56:58

of eligibility how eligibility is defined

57:01

how long you can stay on

57:03

the field which then impacts high

57:05

school entry points it actually limits

57:07

those sense experience and expertise or

57:09

valued along with maturity, and the

57:11

older player is seen as having

57:13

an important place on a

57:15

roster over an 18-year-old show to

57:17

combine those together, and we're seeing

57:19

the erosion of opportunity. Well, on

57:22

one hand, there are new economic

57:24

opportunities. Those are now, because of

57:26

court decisions, being extended to those

57:28

already in the cohort, already

57:31

participating. And so how do

57:33

those new opportunities come in?

57:35

You take all that, our

57:37

student athletes deserve better than

57:39

this patchwork of state laws.

57:41

They deserve better than not

57:43

having any real consumer protection.

57:45

People who are agents

57:47

or presenting contracts, there's

57:49

no oversight. From an

57:51

educational perspective, okay, it's

57:54

great that people can transfer. What

57:56

are the outcome-based issues

57:58

that we're going to see? down the

58:00

road where we have seen inherent

58:02

educational value around college athletics. And

58:04

young people, student athletes as they've

58:06

commonly been described, are asking for

58:08

something that's much more consistent, the

58:11

environment. They like the benefits that

58:13

have been provided by schools and

58:15

the economic opportunities, but they question

58:17

the fundamental equity around this being

58:19

driven based on state borders. Thank

58:21

you. How do you think, you

58:23

know, in your perfect world? if

58:25

you've got federal legislation that unified

58:27

all the rules across all the

58:29

states, how would that impact the

58:31

current system of outside donor-led collectives

58:33

that are helping raise money for

58:35

these NIL deals? You know, student

58:38

athletes in the new model are

58:40

going to have multiple abilities to

58:42

earn, they'll participate in rev share,

58:44

right? And each institutional will decide

58:46

how much it wants to spend

58:48

on what athletes, on what sports,

58:50

how they want to support it,

58:52

so those are local decisions? I

58:54

think you'll see some consistency across

58:56

schools in that area. The second

58:58

thing is student athletes can pursue

59:00

their own NIL rights. Those can

59:02

come from third-party deals. It can

59:04

come from a fact that people

59:07

are associated with the university. But

59:09

at the end of a day,

59:11

we've got to really understand what

59:13

NIL is. We've called a lot

59:15

of things NIL that happen to

59:17

NIL. Let's just really be honest

59:19

about that. So we've got to

59:21

get to the point where NIL

59:23

really is that, where a student

59:25

athlete, either locally, either locally, regionally,

59:27

regionally, regionally, or nationally, or nationally,

59:29

or nationally, or nationally, or nationally,

59:31

or nationally, or nationally, or nationally,

59:33

in some cases, in some cases,

59:36

the tournament the last few weeks.

59:38

You've seen those athletes that are

59:40

in those national commercials. It's not

59:42

a lot of them, but there

59:44

are some. And so they absolutely

59:46

be able to pursue those rights.

59:48

Where it gets really tricky is

59:50

when you have related parties. And

59:52

that doesn't exist in the pro

59:54

model. The pro model doesn't have

59:56

fans who are trying to get

59:58

professional athletes more money. And so

1:00:00

we've got to be respectful. These

1:00:03

are people that support our universities.

1:00:05

They're great supporters of everything that

1:00:07

happens on campus, but you've got

1:00:09

to make an I'll. to look

1:00:11

at deals and say is that

1:00:13

a fair market deal? Is that

1:00:15

really for the student athletes? NIL

1:00:17

rights, the work they're doing on

1:00:19

behalf of a company or a

1:00:21

business or a product, is that

1:00:23

fair? And we need that system

1:00:25

so that we don't end up

1:00:27

in a system where money's flowing

1:00:29

to student athletes and it's a

1:00:32

way to get around the rep

1:00:34

share and all the things we're

1:00:36

trying to build. And that gets

1:00:38

racked back to what Greg was

1:00:40

talking about, then competitive balance and

1:00:42

everything else. So we've just got

1:00:44

to make NIL be NIL. And

1:00:46

that's a great thing for student

1:00:48

athletes. There's lots of opportunities. There's

1:00:50

lots of opportunities. Right, so you

1:00:52

get the chance to have Repshare,

1:00:54

you get the chance to earn

1:00:56

NIL based on your own performance,

1:00:58

where you are, how good you

1:01:01

are, how people, how much people

1:01:03

know you, your social media following,

1:01:05

and you get this tremendous thing.

1:01:07

This is your scholarship, all those

1:01:09

things. Those are the three big

1:01:11

buckets, it's pretty powerful. It is,

1:01:13

and one of the things that,

1:01:15

you know, we've just forgotten about,

1:01:17

which needs to be mentioned is

1:01:19

we've had such great advancements to

1:01:21

the experiences of our student athletes.

1:01:23

when you talk about guaranteed scholarships,

1:01:25

and then as they conclude eligibility,

1:01:28

a chance for them to go

1:01:30

back to school, right? While they're

1:01:32

with you, medical care, dental care,

1:01:34

I care, right, sports nutrition, sports

1:01:36

psychology, equipment, you know, unlimited meals,

1:01:38

all of those types of things

1:01:40

have gone from. one a day

1:01:42

meals or you know as a

1:01:44

bagel a stack or a meal

1:01:46

depending on when you serve it.

1:01:48

I mean that's where this thing

1:01:50

started 15 or 20 years ago

1:01:52

and the student athletes have benefited

1:01:54

from that their experiences. This is

1:01:57

the next iteration and this is

1:01:59

that modernization of compensating student athletes

1:02:01

and we saw what Judge Wilkins

1:02:03

kind of initial reaction on Monday.

1:02:05

about feeling pretty good about the

1:02:07

settlement piece of it. And I

1:02:09

think for all of us, we

1:02:11

all believe student athletes should be

1:02:13

compensated beyond the scholarship and the

1:02:15

benefits they yet, but don't underestimate.

1:02:17

We all have our... numbers, a

1:02:19

kid in the ACC is averaging

1:02:21

about $277,000 worth of benefits even

1:02:23

prior to... Before a nil deal.

1:02:26

So that's part of, you know,

1:02:28

kind of what we feel that

1:02:30

this idea of... Absolutely, this idea

1:02:32

of access and affordability to hire

1:02:34

at... Not only is it affordable...

1:02:36

and student out there are getting

1:02:38

access, but they're also able to

1:02:40

now take care of themselves and

1:02:42

their families. You guys are all

1:02:44

up here on Capitol Hill, a

1:02:46

very notoriously difficult place to get

1:02:48

anything done. And this is a

1:02:50

pressing problem, and I'm just wondering

1:02:52

what would happen if Congress isn't

1:02:55

able to accomplish a national standard.

1:02:57

I can just say one thing.

1:02:59

You know, again, being relatively new

1:03:01

in the space. The common denominator...

1:03:03

on the hill is everyone's had

1:03:05

a great college experience. They know

1:03:07

the benefits of collegiate athletics. They

1:03:09

know it's at the center of

1:03:11

the entire ecosystem. It drives everything

1:03:13

for these institutions. So I think

1:03:15

there's a huge appetite to try

1:03:17

to get something done and I'm

1:03:19

very encouraged by it. I think

1:03:22

from our perspective we just have

1:03:24

to build consensus. And it's going

1:03:26

to be give and take. And

1:03:28

it'll be a compromise. But I

1:03:30

firmly believe we're going to get

1:03:32

there. If you go back to

1:03:34

the question of what if there

1:03:36

isn't action, which is a potential,

1:03:38

you know, this is six years

1:03:40

of visits for me, I think

1:03:42

we've educated and informed well, but

1:03:44

there's a divide. And that's not

1:03:46

a secret, like I didn't just

1:03:48

break news. And those divides will

1:03:51

become, are over, you know, kind

1:03:53

of clear and consistent issues. Really.

1:03:55

contractual protections, kind of guarantees of

1:03:57

benefits, which that last one we're

1:03:59

happy to provide. But let me

1:04:01

just quickly. So what do we

1:04:03

need? We need preemption of the

1:04:05

state laws, return to a national

1:04:07

standard. Like that's a reasonable ask.

1:04:09

The second is, to Tony's point

1:04:11

earlier, let's define what name and

1:04:13

likeness activity actually represents. That's done

1:04:15

through the proposed settlement, whether it's

1:04:17

approved or not, at least there's

1:04:20

a structure that's offered. And by

1:04:22

the way, if you go to

1:04:24

look at like the NBA and

1:04:26

NFL with hundreds of players, there

1:04:28

are few relatively speaking with meaningful

1:04:30

national, quote, name image and likeness

1:04:32

deals, right? Then you go to

1:04:34

the third piece and say, well,

1:04:36

you know, there's some skepticism about

1:04:38

trusting athletic programs with providing the

1:04:40

kind of support. Now, first of

1:04:42

all, it's competitive, so people are

1:04:44

incentivized to provide great nutritional support,

1:04:47

medical care, concierge mental wellness care,

1:04:49

the benefits that Jim just spoke

1:04:51

of. So, well, we'll include that.

1:04:53

Student athletes in high, high numbers

1:04:55

say I don't want to be

1:04:57

employees because when you look at

1:04:59

the benefits provided that aren't subject

1:05:01

to taxation for one, that would

1:05:03

be a significant change in many

1:05:05

of their lives who won't have

1:05:07

this name and his likeness benefit.

1:05:09

So we need to be careful

1:05:11

about kind of blanket descriptions. If

1:05:13

things don't happen, so if it

1:05:16

just stays as it is, that

1:05:18

means we're going to legislate at

1:05:20

the state level and we'll have,

1:05:22

you know, Brett said 34, it's

1:05:24

going to be 50 different approaches

1:05:26

eventually. and it will be a

1:05:28

race to eliminate any oversight or

1:05:30

regulation. How do you have national

1:05:32

competition? How does the big 12

1:05:34

and the SEC have non-conference games?

1:05:36

How do you come together for

1:05:38

national championships? There's a consistent vision

1:05:40

that's uniquely American. This doesn't exist

1:05:42

any place else. That's why it's

1:05:45

a bit harder for us to

1:05:47

work through. So let's put away

1:05:49

some of the old... labels about

1:05:51

exploitation, lack of support, people being

1:05:53

dismissed for an injury. Those aren't

1:05:55

the realities today. But the threat

1:05:57

is, if it's simply ungoverned and

1:05:59

unregulated, and the NCAA can't do

1:06:01

that... some of the state legislation

1:06:03

would prevent conferences from adopting common

1:06:05

sense oversight, then what we're left

1:06:08

with is anything goes. And

1:06:10

some of the behavior now would

1:06:12

suggest that's what some campuses

1:06:14

prefer. But the idea of

1:06:16

mutuality that's worked really well.

1:06:19

needs to be front and center

1:06:21

because simply acting independently doesn't

1:06:23

facilitate this great American tradition

1:06:25

that we need to protect

1:06:27

and that's part of our

1:06:29

responsibility that's part of the

1:06:31

ask and so the threat

1:06:33

goes right to that tradition

1:06:35

can it function in a fully

1:06:38

unregulated marketplace if you

1:06:40

will particularly when we've seen

1:06:42

what maybe over regulation means

1:06:44

by a private entity lawsuit

1:06:46

after lawsuit after lawsuit. And then

1:06:48

we've seen the frustration and

1:06:51

the competitive interest that relate

1:06:53

to legislation after legislation at

1:06:55

the state level. And I hope that

1:06:57

people hear the message that, sure, we're

1:07:00

going to have economic activity, meaning institutions

1:07:02

agree to follow the rules, we've lost

1:07:04

that, and we need a set of

1:07:06

national standards that can be understood. overseeing

1:07:09

and then accountability when someone steps outside

1:07:11

the boundary lines. What I'm hearing from

1:07:14

all of you, and this is an

1:07:16

interesting from just a fan's perspective, and

1:07:18

the great critique of the modern era

1:07:20

of nil and transfer portals, is that you

1:07:23

get into this have and have not

1:07:25

construct that you are talking about, Greg,

1:07:27

and that there are some conferences

1:07:29

and some teams obviously with larger

1:07:32

fan bases that have more enthusiasm,

1:07:34

more recent success. maybe a shoe

1:07:36

store that happens to be in their

1:07:38

backyard. Those kind of things that help

1:07:40

sort of add to one institution that

1:07:42

I think what I'm hearing from you is

1:07:44

without a consistent set of rules

1:07:46

that everybody has to live under. It's

1:07:49

going to get a lot worse. Well think

1:07:51

about the differences between pro and

1:07:53

college sports and I think there are

1:07:55

many. I think we're a poor replacement

1:07:57

for what the NBA and NFL does.

1:07:59

of it is different, but let's not

1:08:02

reduce this to just some full-on minor

1:08:04

league reality, despite the labels that are

1:08:06

provided. There is something different. Our campuses

1:08:08

don't move. They're not sold. There aren't

1:08:11

different owners. We also, in my league,

1:08:13

have responsibility for 22 championships. Was that

1:08:15

an humble break? The NFL has one.

1:08:17

Major League Baseball has one sport to

1:08:20

deal with. I think we all take

1:08:22

that responsibility seriously. And within that inventory

1:08:24

for us of 22 and it goes

1:08:27

up into the 30s for some of

1:08:29

my colleagues is embedded our Olympic development

1:08:31

and our Olympic support program. And if

1:08:33

the pressure is just to win in

1:08:36

those revenue-producing entities and then invest all

1:08:38

of the money around that talent acquisition,

1:08:40

the elimination of... 22 down to something

1:08:42

else is real. That's a really good

1:08:45

point. It's real. And when you alter

1:08:47

greatly, which we're doing now, what we're

1:08:49

trying to do it with boundaries, the

1:08:51

economics of college sports, you alter in

1:08:54

a very significant way the Olympic development

1:08:56

and Olympic support program in this country.

1:08:58

And that has even bigger implications beyond

1:09:01

our campuses and our conversation today to

1:09:03

the geopolitical atmosphere. These are our realities

1:09:05

that make this an incredibly complex situation

1:09:07

where the external pressures are sports responsibilities,

1:09:10

the educational expectations, and the lifelong impacts

1:09:12

that exist when you move a young

1:09:14

person from adolescence to adulthood on a

1:09:16

college campus through college athletics. We all

1:09:19

see what the CFP does. We just

1:09:21

came off the NCAA basketball championship. Congratulations

1:09:23

to... to Greg down there on Florida.

1:09:25

But I hugged him. I was just

1:09:28

going to say. This is first text.

1:09:30

You know, there's nearly 200,000 student athletes

1:09:32

at the division one level, right? 85%

1:09:34

of those teams and 75% of those

1:09:37

student athletes aren't in the sports of

1:09:39

football and basketball. They're part of that

1:09:41

Olympic development program. And we're all really

1:09:44

proud of what our campuses and our

1:09:46

conferences do as far as being a

1:09:48

pipeline to the Olympic team. We can't

1:09:50

lose that. because we don't have our

1:09:53

house in order, we don't have federal

1:09:55

legislation. And that's why I think we're

1:09:57

all optimistic on both sides of the

1:09:59

aisle and you guys cover it very

1:10:02

well and there's some really distinct differences

1:10:04

where they're not going to come together.

1:10:06

I'll be very difficult to that we

1:10:08

feel like we've gotten some very good

1:10:11

traction that you when you look at

1:10:13

this reasonably and you look at again

1:10:15

500,000 young men and women are depending

1:10:17

on this. It's important for them to

1:10:20

come together and that's what our hope

1:10:22

is today. It's interesting, I mean we're

1:10:24

also talking about just, you all made

1:10:27

reference to defining name, image, and likeness

1:10:29

as it is defined of being compensated

1:10:31

for your name, image, and likeness, that

1:10:33

we got a decision from the Supreme

1:10:36

Court on. Clearly initially when this sort

1:10:38

of opened the floodgates, there was a

1:10:40

rush from every competitive school to try

1:10:42

to create a marketplace, basically. Where it

1:10:45

athletes weren't. initially, I mean some, maybe

1:10:47

few, but as you imagine, even in

1:10:49

the NBA, not name, image, and likeness,

1:10:51

contracts aren't everywhere, but there was a

1:10:54

rush to create a local marketplace, basically,

1:10:56

for compensation, for recruits, for all that

1:10:58

kind of thing, going to happen in

1:11:01

any sort of competitive marketplace, let alone

1:11:03

sports, which is immensely popular across the

1:11:05

country, is that your view that what

1:11:07

you're trying to accomplish here at some

1:11:10

level is, A, protect the student athlete.

1:11:12

but B also get back to that

1:11:14

sort of marketplace and not have a

1:11:16

rush to serve. to create a, you

1:11:19

know, who's got the biggest history? It

1:11:21

was an artificial marketplace. It was pay-for-play.

1:11:23

Let's call it what it is. And

1:11:25

I think in this new age of

1:11:28

collegiate athletics and this moving forward through

1:11:30

settlement, we got to put some parameters

1:11:32

around that. Tony spoke about it momentarily

1:11:34

ago. Good commercial NIL. Big brands elevating

1:11:37

and amplifying. and glamourizing our student athletes.

1:11:39

We advocate for that. Yeah. And moving

1:11:41

forward, we'd love to see more of

1:11:44

it. Yeah. But it has to, it

1:11:46

has to meet the guardrails that we're

1:11:48

going to put in place to avoid

1:11:50

this artificial marketplace which was pay-for-play. Yeah,

1:11:53

because it's interesting, right? I mean, if

1:11:55

you take nil, I mean, some of

1:11:57

the highest gross grossing nil athletes in

1:11:59

a traditional marketplace aren't in the power.

1:12:02

the major revenue sport. I mean, Livy

1:12:04

Dunn and LSU, for example, perfect example,

1:12:06

in a Nebraska volleyball team, another example.

1:12:08

I mean, there are components to popular

1:12:11

athletes where there's a marketplace, but it

1:12:13

may not be the revenue sports that

1:12:15

everybody thinks it is. And yet, there's

1:12:18

sort of a rush to get obviously

1:12:20

the best athlete in. So you've got

1:12:22

to create this marketplace. And this, in

1:12:24

your view, would help what seems like

1:12:27

from a fans perspective. a divide of

1:12:29

haves and have-nots, who's willing to push

1:12:31

the edge of the envelope, try to

1:12:33

get the best basketball or football team

1:12:36

on the field. Feel right? Yeah, but

1:12:38

go ahead. Yeah, you're right, but it's

1:12:40

all comers, and that's the structure that

1:12:42

we're trying to create, that you don't

1:12:45

have to be in the powerful conference

1:12:47

to step forward and say you want

1:12:49

to participate in revenue share with student

1:12:51

athletes. Right. And that's what our hope

1:12:54

is. Our hope is that this thing

1:12:56

trickles down throughout Division I, not just

1:12:58

at the top conferences. Those are campus

1:13:01

by campus decisions. So the mandate isn't,

1:13:03

you have to, it is an opt-in.

1:13:05

kind of program. Yeah, and look in

1:13:07

student athletes are still going to choose

1:13:10

to go there's a transactional piece of

1:13:12

this you can't you know you can't

1:13:14

understate that but at the same time

1:13:16

you know for some of the elite

1:13:19

players where they play the history of

1:13:21

that institution putting athletes into professional ranks

1:13:23

certain position groups do better at certain

1:13:25

places yeah before an ill that was

1:13:28

a history of college athletics like we

1:13:30

all understand that each of our leagues

1:13:32

has brands that you know, that sort

1:13:34

of step out and have, you know,

1:13:37

more history and, you know, a longer

1:13:39

legacy of competitive success that exists, kids

1:13:41

still care about that. The transaction system,

1:13:44

you know, influences it, but I still

1:13:46

think that, you know, kids are going

1:13:48

to make decisions like, look, it should

1:13:50

matter who your coaches and who you

1:13:53

relate to, who your position coaches, who

1:13:55

comes into your home to speak with

1:13:57

you and your family, and like, those

1:13:59

things matter also. And maybe where you

1:14:02

get your degree from. You know with

1:14:04

all the transferring kids obviously have the

1:14:06

right to move and no one's suggesting

1:14:08

that that's the wrong thing at all

1:14:11

But you know creating a system with

1:14:13

more rationality may give kids a chance

1:14:15

to pause a little bit Go a

1:14:18

little bit deeper and building relationship. Maybe

1:14:20

one coach leaves They'll wait a little

1:14:22

longer when the next coach gets there

1:14:24

to see if they can build a

1:14:27

relationship before they decide to do something

1:14:29

different sets have you thought about any

1:14:31

changes to that you know transfer portal

1:14:33

process? Maybe some sort of you know

1:14:36

cap on the number of transfers at

1:14:38

school could take in in a given

1:14:40

year just because like what I worry

1:14:42

about as a fan is and you

1:14:45

know talking to coaches and stuff is

1:14:47

what's great about the sport and what's

1:14:49

so you know thrilling about being involved

1:14:51

in it is the development of the

1:14:54

player in building that relationship and seeing

1:14:56

them start you know as a freshman

1:14:58

who needs a lot of support and

1:15:01

seeing them become a great athlete you

1:15:03

know and I worry in the transfer

1:15:05

portal era. Do you lose some of

1:15:07

that with no with no you're presiding

1:15:10

over a very difficult time in that?

1:15:12

I don't think how many is going

1:15:14

to be something that regular I think

1:15:16

that gets to be really complicated to

1:15:19

certain students But he would put but

1:15:21

he would put the emphasis back on

1:15:23

the schools to say if I'm going

1:15:25

to bring somebody on they're going to

1:15:28

get on the field. I think we're

1:15:30

more focused to be really glad. I

1:15:32

know you guys can jump in but

1:15:34

I think we're focused on when I

1:15:37

think what you've seen just recently in

1:15:39

basketball you saw it in football like

1:15:41

you know how state going deep going

1:15:44

deep going deep going deep going deep

1:15:46

into the basketball you saw it in

1:15:48

football like you know how state going

1:15:50

deep into the CFP to be like.

1:15:53

had a really tough decision. He was

1:15:55

a Pennsylvania ticket, he wanted to stay,

1:15:57

you know, and he was trying to

1:15:59

figure out, because he started, he knew

1:16:02

that the quarterback was going to come

1:16:04

back, and so he's trying to figure

1:16:06

out what am I doing next year.

1:16:08

That's a tremendous amount of pressure on

1:16:11

a young person, to walk away from

1:16:13

something he was a part of, and

1:16:15

he wasn't, just a part of, he

1:16:18

wasn't, just a backup, he wasn't, he

1:16:20

wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't,

1:16:22

he was a backup, he was a

1:16:24

backup, he wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't,

1:16:27

he wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't, he

1:16:29

wasn't, he was a, he was a,

1:16:31

he was a, he was a, he

1:16:33

was a, he was a, he was

1:16:36

a, he was a, he was a,

1:16:38

he was a, he was a, he

1:16:40

was a, he was, he was, he

1:16:42

was, he was, he was, he was,

1:16:45

he Like, there's no professional league that

1:16:47

I'm aware of that has free agency

1:16:49

in the middle of their poker season.

1:16:51

Right. So, that's what you want to

1:16:54

call the portal. Like, let's, like, so

1:16:56

I think a lot of this that's

1:16:58

changing is all of the calendars have

1:17:01

to be rethought. Like, what's the right

1:17:03

year? We're also putting incredible burdens on

1:17:05

our assistant coaches. They're coaching deep into

1:17:07

seasons. Then they're being asked to recruit,

1:17:10

like. You know, their lifestyles are not

1:17:12

easy. I know people think, well, this

1:17:14

is a glamorous life and your coaching

1:17:16

is what they want to do. Yeah,

1:17:19

a lot of them are obviously passionate

1:17:21

about it. But we're putting a lot

1:17:23

of burdens on them. It's 365. Yeah,

1:17:25

it's not. It's not fair. It's not

1:17:28

healthy. Can you mention earlier? I think

1:17:30

organically, it's going to slow down with

1:17:32

settlement. I really do. And let's not

1:17:34

forget that when every time you go

1:17:37

into the portal, you go into the

1:17:39

portal, you lose credits, you lose credits.

1:17:41

You lose credits. But with a cap

1:17:44

system in place and some of the

1:17:46

other guardrails, if you will, that will

1:17:48

help to define this new age of

1:17:50

collegiate athletics, I do think it's going

1:17:53

to slow down. And there'll be a

1:17:55

more vested interest in staying at the

1:17:57

institution you're at. Let's inform the perspective

1:17:59

around transfers. Well, part of the challenge

1:18:02

in answering your question, first is we

1:18:04

think about it every day, I think all

1:18:06

of us, because you're just a

1:18:08

phone call away from the next story

1:18:10

complaint question about it. Second

1:18:13

is, there have been court

1:18:15

activity that limits some of

1:18:17

that ability. Certainly, the frequency

1:18:19

issue has been litigated

1:18:21

at least once. When you transfer,

1:18:23

there are some specific education impacts.

1:18:26

So I sound like to get

1:18:28

off my long guy right now.

1:18:30

The time to graduation, based on

1:18:33

research over years, extends. Your GPA

1:18:35

or the quality of

1:18:37

that educational experience,

1:18:39

declines. Across the spectrum,

1:18:42

if you're a 4.0, the

1:18:44

likelihood after transfer, you're not

1:18:46

a 4.0, the number of

1:18:49

credits, and your ability to enter

1:18:51

a major and be eligible

1:18:53

to play may be altered after

1:18:56

the transfer. So pursuing that

1:18:58

which you want. may be very different

1:19:00

to prepare you for the

1:19:03

next stage in life. And the

1:19:05

third is the likelihood of

1:19:07

graduation decline. So length, quality,

1:19:10

and likelihood. So should that be

1:19:12

regulated by educational

1:19:14

enterprises, our campuses, and

1:19:17

our conferences? Seemingly,

1:19:19

yes. Now let's define what that

1:19:21

means. And part of that is

1:19:23

the when. When you think about

1:19:25

the complexity of the problem, Tony's

1:19:27

right, there's no pro league that

1:19:29

has free agency during its championship.

1:19:32

But most teams are not in

1:19:34

the championship hunt. And so

1:19:36

you take the basketball tournament with

1:19:38

350 plus division one members, 68

1:19:41

make the tournaments for men's women's

1:19:43

basketball. That means there's roughly 300

1:19:45

teams that are dormant. Maybe they're

1:19:47

in the MIT, maybe not, but

1:19:50

it ends quite quickly. the

1:19:52

back room conversation, the secret phone calls

1:19:54

the third party influences. We have to

1:19:56

combat that as well. That's where some

1:19:59

of this... I'm not looking for

1:20:01

the next big government project in

1:20:03

this era of efficiency, right? Some

1:20:05

rules would be nice. But the

1:20:07

ability to set the rules, not

1:20:09

be continually litigated for common sense

1:20:12

realities. That's why I think informing

1:20:14

what happens upon transfer is real.

1:20:16

And that informs then what do

1:20:18

you do about it, which would

1:20:20

indicate, to my colleague's point, when

1:20:22

the activity takes place to make

1:20:25

it a healthy system and really

1:20:27

a transparent system. The second would

1:20:29

be to make sure that the

1:20:31

frequency with which it can occur

1:20:33

actually supports the kind of educational

1:20:36

outcomes to which we're held responsible,

1:20:38

because there's a prediction. We're not

1:20:40

that many years away from the

1:20:42

stories. Well, look at these graduation

1:20:44

rates. These schools aren't committed to

1:20:46

education. We are, but you need

1:20:49

some structure to facilitate that education.

1:20:51

Otherwise, the competitive pressures are overwhelmed

1:20:53

without the governance that's appropriate. So

1:20:55

that kind of like leads to

1:20:57

my question where... Looking at this

1:20:59

by establishing a national set of

1:21:02

laws, it's like a win for

1:21:04

students, it's a win for schools,

1:21:06

it's a win for conferences, for

1:21:08

athletics, for fans, what is really

1:21:10

the hindrance leading to this chaos

1:21:12

that you currently have of like

1:21:15

34 different sets of rules? Is

1:21:17

it just a lack of awareness

1:21:19

among federal legislators of not knowing

1:21:21

that this is something that needs

1:21:23

to be done? I'll jump in

1:21:25

first and my colleagues can add.

1:21:28

First of all, everybody in college

1:21:30

sports should raise their hand and

1:21:32

say we were slow to change.

1:21:34

There is a system that was

1:21:36

seen as working pretty well, not

1:21:38

perfectly, but as we sit here

1:21:41

on Capitol Hill, just pick the

1:21:43

system that works perfectly, right? I

1:21:45

mean, everything is... It's a human

1:21:47

endeavor. Right for criticism. So the

1:21:49

economics change, the expectations change, the

1:21:51

pressures change, the willingness of state

1:21:54

leaders to engage, change. and we'll

1:21:56

use the NCAA, College Athletics, slow

1:21:58

to adapt. Okay, so there's the

1:22:00

confessional. You just wallow in that

1:22:02

or you say. Let's pursue something

1:22:05

different. And so now we're trying

1:22:07

to make what would have been

1:22:09

in the NCAA time frame, decades

1:22:11

of change in a matter of

1:22:13

months. And our authority is limited

1:22:15

by the different laws that have

1:22:18

been enacted and by the litigation.

1:22:20

So let's go back to are

1:22:22

there common sense elements that could

1:22:24

be part... of something that's introduced

1:22:26

in pursuit. I think we've done

1:22:28

that. And what's the impediment? It's,

1:22:31

yeah, there's some cynicism. You guys

1:22:33

should do this yourselves. Well, that

1:22:35

is becoming limited based on the

1:22:37

external realities. There's a lot going

1:22:39

on in the federal government. And

1:22:41

respectfully, I absolutely agree. But this

1:22:44

doesn't exist any place else. And

1:22:46

the downstream implications on... policy issues

1:22:48

around the Olympics, those are real.

1:22:50

Well, those are real. Here's what,

1:22:52

just picking up on this, here's

1:22:54

what I find so fascinating, having

1:22:57

been a collegiate, a consumer of

1:22:59

all collegiate athletics. I mean, I

1:23:01

love it all, all of us

1:23:03

do. We've been huge fans for

1:23:05

years. But growing up, it was

1:23:07

all sort of an NCAA top-down

1:23:10

regulation, right? All four of you

1:23:12

guys, your resumes read like you

1:23:14

could run, you know, Fortune 50

1:23:16

companies. and you're headed conferences. And

1:23:18

the way that I look at

1:23:21

this now, it's so interesting that

1:23:23

you all are the ones that

1:23:25

are up here driving it at

1:23:27

a conference level. Now I understand

1:23:29

that the revenue now and a

1:23:31

huge part of college athletics is

1:23:34

governed by you individually in your

1:23:36

respective conferences and collectively on what

1:23:38

you can agree on. It feels

1:23:40

like the NCAA that we grew

1:23:42

up with that was always the

1:23:44

sort of top down. They're not

1:23:47

as big of the piece of

1:23:49

the solution. I don't want to

1:23:51

put words in your mouth on

1:23:53

this. And I know you certainly

1:23:55

don't want to take shots at

1:23:57

a governing body. But am I

1:24:00

misreading that? I mean, it's interesting

1:24:02

that the four of you are

1:24:04

the ones that are leading. this

1:24:06

charge? We're not adversarial at all.

1:24:08

I think we're respectful of change

1:24:10

and that's hard at a national

1:24:13

level. So when I referenced earlier

1:24:15

there are 360 plus division one

1:24:17

members. 360 colleges and universities. Our

1:24:19

four conferences represent the high high

1:24:21

consistently competitive end. There are economics

1:24:23

associated that. There are expectations. There

1:24:26

are pressures. There are expectations. There

1:24:28

are pressures. There are That's very

1:24:30

different than many, many of the

1:24:32

others who are in it for

1:24:34

enrollment management purposes or the branding

1:24:36

of being division one within their

1:24:39

state legislature that provides some conversation

1:24:41

and opportunities. And so trying to

1:24:43

make decisions in big rooms filled

1:24:45

with people doesn't work very well.

1:24:47

And that's part of the change.

1:24:50

On the other hand... What the

1:24:52

NCA does, like I've never seen

1:24:54

any of those 360 schools, even

1:24:56

if they're frustrated about eligibility issues

1:24:58

or infractions issues, they never decline

1:25:00

an invitation to participate in an

1:25:03

NCA championship. I've not seen that.

1:25:05

And when the trophies are handed

1:25:07

out and it's got the NCA

1:25:09

logo on it, they're holding it

1:25:11

out by just witnessed out myself.

1:25:13

Yeah, one shiny moment is pretty

1:25:16

catchy too. Yeah. So that's part

1:25:18

of the difficulty of can we

1:25:20

keep the big tent. But the

1:25:22

T on the end of that,

1:25:24

it's not the big tent, the

1:25:26

big tent. But again, it's going

1:25:29

to be the big 50 something.

1:25:31

People, totally, and coast to coast.

1:25:33

People are fine about that. I'm

1:25:35

just humbled me in two time

1:25:37

zones. I'll have two times. I'll

1:25:39

have two guys wrong. You've got

1:25:42

New York and LA. But can

1:25:44

we make it work? Can we

1:25:46

make it work? But I think

1:25:48

we have a different leadership responsibility

1:25:50

than maybe 15 or 20 years.

1:25:52

I think you can see us

1:25:55

take a little bit more active

1:25:57

position in rulemaking and enforcement, specifically

1:25:59

around settlement. Yeah. I would just

1:26:01

say, I think your question is

1:26:03

a really good one, because optic...

1:26:05

are important. And listen, the NCAA

1:26:08

hasn't made all the right decisions,

1:26:10

but we're part of the NCAA.

1:26:12

And we've been responsible for a

1:26:14

lot in some of those decisions

1:26:16

that haven't really gone well. I

1:26:19

mean, they try to serve the

1:26:21

membership. I will say this with

1:26:23

President Baker. He's done a really

1:26:25

good job of staying connected with

1:26:27

us, and we meet with him

1:26:29

regularly. And in the end, I

1:26:32

just think for the four of

1:26:34

us, because of... the brands that

1:26:36

we have, the schools, the market,

1:26:38

that we have a responsibility to

1:26:40

the greater good of college sports,

1:26:42

to create something that has a

1:26:45

sustainable future in it, not just

1:26:47

for the biggest brands, but for

1:26:49

the entire enterprise. Is it impossible

1:26:51

to imagine? more conference consolidation. I

1:26:53

mean you four here getting a

1:26:55

lot of work on it before

1:26:58

they came in here. Well my

1:27:00

next question is going to make

1:27:02

them fight. Well that's why we

1:27:04

want to wrap it up. A

1:27:06

lot of rumors about Big East

1:27:08

A C C a couple coaches

1:27:11

out there really want those two

1:27:13

to combine you know I mean

1:27:15

all four you guys work very

1:27:17

well together. Is it impossible? I

1:27:19

mean we talked about that a

1:27:21

little bit early. Brett we did

1:27:24

and I understand that we've come

1:27:26

to an understanding about targeting calls

1:27:28

and we did football playoffs. We

1:27:30

did. The difference between targeting and

1:27:32

almost targeting. Those are those are

1:27:34

all the officials by the way.

1:27:37

Is it impossible to imagine? Is

1:27:39

it impossible to imagine additional consolidation

1:27:41

in college? I've sent a memo

1:27:43

to my president saying I hope

1:27:45

everyone stays where they are. That

1:27:48

may be easy for me. We

1:27:50

have a pretty unique circumstance now

1:27:52

with our 16 and I was

1:27:54

in a meeting last week where

1:27:56

the issue came up from a

1:27:58

smaller campus. leader, smaller conference campus

1:28:01

leader, and I said, look, I'm

1:28:03

supposed to be the one losing

1:28:05

sleep over this, and I lose

1:28:07

none. You're losing all of

1:28:09

it. There are just realities,

1:28:11

there are economic realities, there

1:28:14

are practical realities about just

1:28:16

expanding in numbers. There are

1:28:18

traditions. You know, and when we talked

1:28:21

about more, one of our Chancellor said,

1:28:23

we know who we are, our fans know who

1:28:25

we are. Why would we just make

1:28:27

a leap? Now that's us. Others may

1:28:29

have different views, but it's not something

1:28:32

that occupies the majority of my time.

1:28:34

What we're doing with transfers? I told

1:28:36

you is every day. But we deal

1:28:38

around legal settlement, how we interact with

1:28:40

states, and how we interact with Congress.

1:28:43

Those occupy a lot more of my

1:28:45

thinking in time than does some next

1:28:47

level expansion. I would just echo Greg

1:28:49

sentiments. I mean, from a big 12

1:28:52

perspective, we love the composition and makeup.

1:28:54

Obviously we went through realignment. We've got

1:28:56

eight new members over the last two years.

1:28:58

We love the direction of where we're going

1:29:00

as a conference. And to Greg's

1:29:02

point again, we're focused on some

1:29:05

of the bigger issues around collegiate

1:29:07

athletics and making sure that we

1:29:09

can all prosper together moving forward.

1:29:11

Tony? Same. Yeah, I would say the same. I

1:29:13

think this past year, we had integration

1:29:15

of the four new members for the

1:29:18

first time and scheduling and all the

1:29:20

challenges. And you go 28 sports deeps

1:29:22

like we do. But this last year

1:29:24

has been, it's been settlement operations, it's

1:29:27

been trying to get this settlement right

1:29:29

to get ready for the hearing that we

1:29:31

had the other day to build rules. We're

1:29:33

taking on a whole new ecosystem, like in

1:29:35

terms of like how we're going to operate, how

1:29:37

we're going to operate together, like rulemaking, everything

1:29:39

is going on, it's completely changing. So that's

1:29:42

been a big piece of what the last

1:29:44

year has been, getting that right while we've

1:29:46

had inside our conference, making sure that we've

1:29:48

been. You know, scheduling, you know, from the

1:29:50

way we think about it is sort of

1:29:53

a living thing. You've got to look at

1:29:55

how you schedule and get feedback from coaches

1:29:57

and players and I'm, you know, we'll get together in May

1:29:59

as a... I'm sure I'll get a

1:30:01

lot of feedback. I'm sure about

1:30:03

how we scheduled and what we

1:30:06

got right and what we need

1:30:08

to do better. That's just, you

1:30:10

know, that's just part of what

1:30:12

it is. But we're really focused

1:30:14

on what we have right now

1:30:16

and this next world and operating

1:30:18

this next world for the institutions

1:30:21

as best we can. Well, you

1:30:23

gentlemen are very impressive. Really appreciate

1:30:25

the time that you've given us

1:30:27

here today. You got a big

1:30:29

road. I mean, it's tough to

1:30:31

sell these guys on anything. I

1:30:34

just thought that was so interesting

1:30:36

and it's very clear that college

1:30:38

athletics is standing at the edge

1:30:40

of a cliff and beneath them

1:30:42

is total chaos and the only

1:30:44

way to get to the other

1:30:46

side is for Congress to build

1:30:49

a bridge. It looks like national

1:30:51

standards and these guys are clearly

1:30:53

devoted to trying to get some

1:30:55

sort of national standard. I really

1:30:57

hope Congress can figure it out.

1:30:59

It's interesting because I mean the

1:31:01

first time that this was presented

1:31:04

to me I was like what

1:31:06

the hell does a federal government

1:31:08

have to do with collegiate athletics?

1:31:10

And I just like why don't

1:31:12

you clean up the mess yourself?

1:31:14

Right. You created a situation where

1:31:16

you were basically like railroading famous

1:31:19

and very talented athletes into just

1:31:21

paying the school for their own

1:31:23

name, image, and likeness with no

1:31:25

compensation whatsoever. That created a system

1:31:27

where it all went, you know,

1:31:29

haywire. But ultimately when they all

1:31:31

came back together, it was like

1:31:34

a, it was like the worst

1:31:36

form of a booster system. Right.

1:31:38

You know, where it's like all

1:31:40

this behind the scenes sort of

1:31:42

nonsense. But now you hear more

1:31:44

about it and you realize that

1:31:47

like state legislatures are changing law,

1:31:49

like tax laws. with trying to

1:31:51

incentivize certain schools in certain states

1:31:53

over their competition in the same

1:31:55

conference in another school in another

1:31:57

state it kind of got to

1:31:59

get involved at some level. It

1:32:02

has the capacity of ruining collegiate

1:32:04

athletics. So I don't know if

1:32:06

like exactly their deal is exactly

1:32:08

what needs to happen but I

1:32:10

totally agree that something needs to

1:32:12

happen because this is I mean

1:32:14

it's a big money deal. We

1:32:17

just watched March Madness. Yeah, right.

1:32:19

That's a hard to ignore thing.

1:32:21

The college football playoff. Hard to

1:32:23

ignore. Right. Big business. Right. Kind

1:32:25