0:00

Welcome to Sad Boys, a podcast about feelings

0:02

and other things also. I'm Jarvis. I'm Jordan.

0:04

And now what do we do? Do we just do

0:06

a podcast? You're wagging your, you're wagging your finger like

0:08

de Kimbe Matumbo. You think it's adding maybe a little

0:10

sauce to the show? Well, I feel like, right, but

0:13

who's, who are you saying that to? You can't do

0:15

that. Do what? Well, there's plenty of people listening.

0:17

Someone's probably doing something. You can't doing something you

0:19

can't do that. You can't do that. You can't

0:21

do that. You can't do that. You can't do

0:23

that. You can't do that. You can't do that.

0:26

No Sam, you can't do the dishes right

0:28

now. Quit, no Sam, stop it, you

0:30

can't do that. I know you're doing

0:32

chores. Every week we have a new

0:34

person who we tell to stop doing

0:37

something. I always picture it as dishes.

0:39

If someone's listening to the dishes. Stop

0:41

doing the dishes? It's always dishes. Why

0:43

would you want them to stop doing

0:45

the dishes? Are you a part of

0:47

big, dirty, big dirty? I'm big and

0:49

dirty. Cut it out. What's the... Ever

0:52

since Jordan got in the pocket of

0:54

big dirty, the whole forecast is going

0:56

downhill. Everything underneath the clothes, pure dirt.

0:58

Oh man, yeah. What's a, wait, what's

1:00

the default chore in your mind? I go

1:03

to dishes. Trash. Trash. Trash is default, but

1:05

you know I have a history. That's true.

1:07

I was born of the trash. It's a war.

1:09

It's a war at this point. It's a, it's

1:12

the shore war war war. This is the first

1:14

place you've lived in the first place

1:16

you've lived in living memory. I

1:18

would say that there is it's possible

1:20

that there is a trash war.

1:23

I just haven't gone public. It's

1:25

kind of like a trash

1:27

cold war. It's a proxy

1:29

battle. I've noticed some other

1:31

people using your trash bins.

1:33

That's all I'll say. The CIA

1:35

over here. Get with his foreign

1:38

information. Messing with our domestic affairs.

1:40

I think he's spreading out. Well,

1:43

sometimes one of my trash pet

1:45

peeves. It's not a big deal.

1:47

is those who listen to that was

1:49

for a very long time will

1:52

remember some of my trash

1:54

trials and tribulations TTT. The historians

1:56

of you out there were right

1:58

right but I would say that

2:00

recently, not too many issues, except

2:02

I do have a pet peeve

2:04

when someone will use my compost

2:06

and I don't take my, like,

2:08

it makes, if I haven't composted

2:10

anything, I may not think that

2:12

I need to take it out.

2:14

And then so I have to

2:16

check to see if someone else

2:18

is, because one time someone did

2:21

yard work and then like put

2:23

their stuff in my bin, and

2:25

then I needed to remember to

2:27

take it out because then when

2:29

we were doing yard work it

2:31

was full and I was like

2:33

well egg on my face. More

2:35

fool me. But I would say,

2:37

ethical question because I do think

2:39

there's like some crime right you're

2:41

not supposed to like you someone's

2:43

trash isn't there a crime somewhere?

2:45

Do not kill. I'm not saying

2:47

that someone else is doing that

2:49

crime to me I'm about to

2:51

admit to a crime. There's like

2:53

a legal dumping like if you're

2:55

like filling up. A dumpster that

2:57

you're not supposed to be using.

2:59

Yeah, so here's my, here's my

3:01

moral conundrum. And it's a question

3:03

for the room. It's midnight, the

3:05

night before trash day, all the

3:07

bins are on the street. I'm

3:09

telling you like a story, like

3:11

a fairy tale. So it's the

3:13

night before trash day. They wrapped

3:15

up through the street. I've got

3:18

one of those sleep caps on

3:20

and I'm bundled up in my

3:22

bed. You already made a book.

3:24

So, and you, through one reason

3:26

or another, have a little bit

3:28

too much trash. So much trash

3:30

that you won't be able to

3:32

put it all in your bin.

3:34

However, the bins that are out,

3:36

the bins that will be picked

3:38

up at six in the morning,

3:40

whose owners are asleep, may have

3:42

some space. Your options are A,

3:44

leave the trash until after the

3:46

trash gets picked up and then

3:48

put it into a trash bin.

3:50

or B, toss the trash bag

3:52

into someone else's, who has room,

3:54

and it'll be unbeknownst to them.

3:56

what they don't know. They won't

3:58

even have the chance to fill

4:00

it. They won't even know because

4:02

it'll get picked up and they'll

4:04

be none the wiser. Unless there

4:06

are four a.m. I've already taken

4:08

the trash out but now it's

4:10

time to throw out the mega

4:12

trash. I've got my Saratoga. I've

4:15

been doing push-ups on my balcony.

4:17

Right. I drink 12 Saratoga just

4:19

now. I need to toss them

4:21

into recycling before. And what's this?

4:23

I've used all my ice. I've

4:25

been able to throw the bag

4:27

away. Yeah, what are you doing

4:29

in that scenario? I'm known as

4:31

the bad boy at the show.

4:33

I'm kind of the renegade. Can't

4:35

home me back. I'm basically John

4:37

Wick and the whole world kill

4:39

my dog. I'm holding nothing back.

4:41

I'm at war. I think first

4:43

movie is I forget to take

4:45

the trash out. That's scenario one.

4:47

Okay. Okay. So we're kind of

4:49

timeline A almost certainly is the

4:51

case. So in this world. Well,

4:53

let's say you had forgotten to

4:55

take the trash out last week.

4:57

And so now you have too

4:59

much trash. and you've been gaming

5:01

all night so you've been up.

5:03

I'm at my strongest. Yeah, you're

5:05

up till 2 a.m. and you're

5:07

like, I've got double trash. Well

5:09

now I've never been more focused

5:12

in my life than when I'm

5:14

in the game zone. Yeah, yeah,

5:16

and so now the gamer zone,

5:18

you know, a game just ended,

5:20

you just got a high score

5:22

and balatra. I'm wiping my hands,

5:24

you're, you're blowing them like a,

5:26

like a, like a, like a

5:28

gun. Yeah, I'm trying to call

5:30

my family. They've started screening my

5:32

calls because I keep telling them

5:34

about like, which joke is I

5:36

used for a couple of years.

5:38

Right, you were talking about the

5:40

kill screen of Blattro, which is

5:42

reachable. Once you get enough exponents

5:44

or whatever, they can't store the

5:46

number and you start getting not

5:48

a number as your score. Me

5:50

on the phone. Hello? Yeah. So

5:52

what do you do? What do

5:54

you do? Do you use someone

5:56

else's trash can? What they don't

5:58

know won't know won't hurt them?

6:00

I... Who gives a shit? Like,

6:02

just, if... Okay, here... You're shaking.

6:04

I have been walking a dog

6:06

before. Someone's trash cans in front

6:09

of their house. I'm holding this

6:11

poop. I'm just going to throw

6:13

it in their trash. It's in

6:15

front of their house. Crime. Criminal.

6:17

Who gives a shit though? You

6:19

just did. You just gave a

6:21

shit to the trash can. And

6:23

you're right too. You're literally trying

6:25

to list it. A socialist and

6:27

I think all trash is for

6:29

the people. Yeah. There's like a

6:31

crowd of people here. Who just

6:33

hate these? like nimby people who

6:35

all they do the question was

6:37

for Jordan no like you're gonna

6:39

be a frickin mrs. Kravitz and

6:41

constantly look out your window and

6:43

get mad if someone puts trash

6:45

in your trash can who cares

6:47

mr. i don't know mrs. Kravitz

6:49

is from an old TV show

6:51

that no one here was alive

6:53

to show from the 50s called

6:55

leave my trash alone so I

6:57

agree. I am one to give

6:59

a shit to a trash can.

7:01

To gift. Wait, that's where you

7:03

shit in trash cans. Okay, hold

7:06

on. Okay, were you going to

7:08

docs it now? Yeah. There is

7:10

a near my place and the

7:12

exact route will walk the dog.

7:14

There are a collection of trash

7:16

bins that are never full and

7:18

always outside. You're asking for it.

7:20

Right, we are trash victim blaming

7:22

here. No, but I will do.

7:24

I'll admit it. I'll admit it.

7:26

I will go down the street

7:28

and I'll open up the trash

7:30

bins and I'll go, that one's

7:32

pretty empty. This, honestly, this bag

7:34

can fit and not only would

7:36

no one be the wiser, but

7:38

even if they wanted to throw

7:40

something away, they still could. And

7:42

so I'm like, it's actually, usually

7:44

only happens when we would like

7:46

host a big party and then

7:48

the next day, it would be

7:50

like a ton of people worth

7:52

of trash. So it would be

7:54

hard to otherwise get rid of

7:56

it quickly. This has been a...

7:58

We're all wearing different wires. I've

8:00

been an undercover cop the whole

8:03

time waiting for you. It all

8:05

makes sense. I just want to

8:07

hear a good explanation. Like, I

8:09

heard one person one time say

8:11

that they were mad that people

8:13

threw their dog poop in their

8:15

trash can because then when they

8:17

wheel the trash can into their

8:19

garage, it stinks. Doesn't trash normally

8:21

stink? Also. is your trash not?

8:23

Yeah, I mean, how much dog

8:25

poop? I feel like it takes

8:27

a lot of dog poop. I

8:29

will say as long as the

8:31

dog poop is contained. Yeah, if

8:33

it's in bad. I pride myself,

8:35

this is weird, but I pride

8:37

myself on a clean garbage bin.

8:39

I do clean it out every

8:41

couple months. I will take a

8:43

scrub brush and a hose and

8:45

a hose and clean it out.

8:47

Because when I take the trash

8:49

out. Outside, not the can. Yeah,

8:51

the bin outside. That's crazy. That's

8:53

crazy. Because that's bonkers. I will

8:55

say though, I I was in

8:57

a situation once where I had

9:00

to order new trash bins from

9:02

the city and It was kind

9:04

of awesome like when you get

9:06

a new trash bin you're like

9:08

damn Like like you cleaned up

9:10

nice. I've never seen you like

9:12

this before. Well, it's like where

9:14

where I live like it's In

9:16

a track game? Yeah, I live

9:18

in the dumpster. Yeah, with my

9:20

roommate Oscar. Yeah, you have a

9:22

comically placed on appeal on your

9:24

head, by the way. Stinklines coming

9:26

over. Right, yeah. Your hat. My

9:28

clothes are like plastic bags. Yeah,

9:30

and your hat is the top

9:32

of a trash tin. It's like

9:34

a jack in the box. Yeah.

9:36

identity. But like it's as apartment,

9:38

so there's no like singular trash

9:40

bins. We all just throw our

9:42

bags in a dump, a collective

9:44

dumpster. And so it's like if

9:46

I have a lot of trash

9:48

towards the beginning of the week,

9:50

I don't want to throw all

9:52

of it away because I don't

9:54

want to fill it up too

9:57

much. So it's like, oh interesting.

9:59

If you have. like the individual

10:01

trash bins if it's the night

10:03

before like if everyone's trash bins

10:05

were out all week and you

10:07

started doing it like at the

10:09

beginning of the week. I've actually

10:11

only ever done this the night

10:13

before trash pickup because I want

10:15

to because I'm trying to minimize

10:17

inconvenience for for like basically in

10:19

my mind there's zero inconvenience because

10:21

it's not about keeping it a

10:23

secret they won't even know it

10:25

but it's more like it will

10:27

never affect them. And it's not,

10:29

I'm not putting- You're a considerate

10:31

trash bandit. Yeah, and I'm not

10:33

putting like raw poop in there

10:35

or anything like that that's gonna

10:37

dirty the trash in. Because that

10:39

could be something that- Nobody would

10:41

do that. I've even been known

10:43

to double bag dog poop when

10:45

it's going on someone else's trash

10:47

can. I've even, I've like sometimes

10:49

used a bag. You're always supposed

10:51

to use a bag. Yeah, I'll

10:54

take it from my hand, put

10:56

it in a bag. I think,

10:58

you know, this, for me, it

11:00

feels like a bigger problem of

11:02

like a sense of community. I

11:04

agree. Where it's like, if someone

11:06

is so not in my trash

11:08

can, like, they don't have a

11:10

sense of community with their neighbors,

11:12

and that sucks. Yeah, like my

11:14

neighbor once, and this is a

11:16

situation where they were getting yard

11:18

work done, and they needed more

11:20

compost space. and asked if they

11:22

could use my whole bin and

11:24

I was like of course you

11:26

know and that's the thing it's

11:28

like if anyone were to ask

11:30

me I don't mind but it's

11:32

like a communal give-and-take type situation

11:34

like if there is a person

11:36

that it's the night before trash

11:38

they've already taken out all of

11:40

their trash and they have room

11:42

and they're like you can't use

11:44

my trash that's No, that's wild.

11:46

Like the class ends and they

11:48

ask about homework. Yeah, like morally

11:51

I see nothing wrong. I do

11:53

like feel like a neardewell when

11:55

I'm like opening up the trash

11:57

bins. a little mask on your

11:59

eyes. Yeah, me and the raccoon,

12:01

me and my raccoon homies are

12:03

going around, I'm looking for space,

12:05

they're looking for snacks. Yeah, they're

12:07

picking up dog food in both

12:09

their hands and scurrying away on

12:11

that like little bipedal sense. They're

12:13

trying to wash their cotton candy.

12:15

Can I, I'll throw out like

12:17

a kind of light dilemma in

12:19

this one I feel. So I

12:21

guess my recycling bin was stolen.

12:23

I don't know. It's been gone

12:25

a very long time. as a

12:27

refresher and you did it. Oh,

12:29

I will take the relatively small

12:31

amount of recycling I generate and

12:33

now I can fit in. Evening

12:35

before, or close to trash days,

12:37

sometimes the morning before because they

12:39

pick it up a little late.

12:41

I will sometimes break down a

12:43

box and then redistribute pieces of

12:45

the cardboard. Like a Johnny Appleseed

12:48

type. Like a Robin Hood. It's

12:50

because you're the Robin Hood of

12:52

recycling. I will, and they will

12:54

get all of the cloud. for

12:56

recycling. Okay, wait, so you're saying

12:58

that instead of, if you have

13:00

like a little bit of, if

13:02

you have a little bit of

13:04

recycling, you'll distribute that amongst other

13:06

people's bins instead of using your

13:08

own. If I have a very

13:10

little bit of recycling, we'll go

13:12

with the trash. No, no, no,

13:14

that makes sense. I've done that

13:16

as well, where I've had like

13:18

boxes. You know, you can call

13:20

to get a new bin. Yeah,

13:22

but I'm winning right now. took

13:24

a picture of my trash bins

13:26

when I like moved to a

13:28

new place and so I have

13:30

the code that's on the front

13:32

and then in the past I've

13:34

also used like a paint pen

13:36

to like write my address yeah

13:38

yeah yeah usually I just say

13:40

the address of this is Jarvis

13:42

Johnson's trash no it's definitely mine

13:45

my SSN is right there on

13:47

the front mother's maiden name I

13:49

like when I recently moved most

13:51

recently moved I had Uh, or

13:53

no, this happened a couple times.

13:55

Someone else takes my bin in

13:57

by mistake, because, you know, sometimes

13:59

there's not... space on the street

14:01

for where you normally put it,

14:03

so you have to like move it to

14:05

like a, you have to travel a little

14:07

bit, it has to go on a

14:09

vacation down the street. And then I

14:11

go to get the trash bin and

14:13

then it's missing, and then I refer

14:15

to my lookup table of what my

14:18

code is, and I kind of start

14:20

looking around at nearby trash bins and

14:22

going, all right, you brought this in,

14:24

but is this mine. And one time.

14:26

I had to walk maybe 20 feet

14:28

into someone's driveway and grab my trash

14:30

bin. And I felt like I stole

14:32

it. But it was mine. You know

14:34

what I mean? So it was a weird

14:37

kind of heist situation. Where was theirs?

14:39

That's for them to figure out. Hopefully

14:41

they have a picture on their phone.

14:43

Maybe theirs is slightly smaller and it's Russian

14:45

dulled into yours. But the thing is,

14:47

mine were new. And so I was

14:49

like, I'm not going to use someone's

14:51

crappy, dirty, uncleamed out trash bin. I got

14:53

to clean it like Jacob? Am I crazy?

14:55

No, I'm not going to, we're not going

14:57

to swap swapsies. I'm taking mine back. Speaking

15:00

of community. Because it might get gross, I

15:02

will clean it. But like it's like there's

15:04

a certain amount of grossness that as long

15:06

as we don't. It's like how like your

15:09

body always gets dirty. So like why would you

15:11

shower? Speaking of community, you know who's

15:13

looking for a community. Dan Harmon.

15:15

Yeah. These people. Yes. Using

15:17

AI. That's sick, man. AI.

15:19

It's all over the news.

15:22

The time I hit. First,

15:24

first, we're done a little

15:26

bit about that. Oh my

15:28

gosh. It's like, Gina, you

15:30

know, sweet. It's, uh. making

15:32

some real work for our

15:35

subtitlers. No that was caption. I

15:37

will say for for caption purposes

15:39

I it says Jarvis says gibberish.

15:41

I like it if an on

15:43

occasion that does it to be

15:45

a Jordan says gibberish because I

15:48

will listen back and be like

15:50

I have no we I've stopped

15:52

sending it to you because the

15:54

few times I have I've been

15:56

like what do you say here

15:58

and you go? Was it one

16:01

of you that met reference the

16:03

other day that I went to

16:05

the Ren Fair last year, I

16:08

guess? And because the people that

16:10

often are working the booths and

16:12

the stores and stuff are in

16:15

character, a lot of the time

16:17

it'll be like, what can I

16:19

fetch you, me lord? And it's

16:22

like, I'll take a high-nicket. I'll

16:24

like a blue moon. Can I

16:26

get a liquid death? I'll take

16:29

a Yoldi Bakari place. a white

16:31

club please yield like the old

16:33

style. I will immediately on instinct

16:36

all of my like adapting to

16:38

my environment accent like I stopped

16:40

saying like I'm home right my

16:43

accent the accent I do here

16:45

or adjust here evaporates very quickly

16:47

and so they just they don't

16:50

like so me lord how do

16:52

you do what may I fetch

16:55

you? No one like you're a

16:57

love car just um I'll just

16:59

know, uh, you ain't got a

17:02

strong buddy, yeah, I don't always.

17:04

And like, and then they went,

17:06

I, oh, sorry, could you say

17:09

that again? I have no. I

17:11

was like, oh, right. The, um,

17:13

I saw a dragon and, uh,

17:16

I'll take it just a water.

17:18

Could I have a cherry, could

17:20

I have a fucking baha blast?

17:23

May I take a baha blast.

17:25

Can I get a blueberry red

17:27

bowl? May I have a mountain

17:30

dew. No, okay, no. So, so,

17:32

so, so, AIs in the news,

17:34

as it always is, and it

17:37

always will be, at least for

17:39

the next, for a while. And-

17:41

Until everyone is one. Before we

17:44

talk about the main topic, which

17:46

is AI companionship, AI boyfriends, and

17:48

girlfriends, I do want to spend

17:51

a moment to talk about this

17:53

open A.I jibly situation. Oh, yeah.

17:55

You don't like a- Open AI

17:58

big US AI company formerly nonprofit

18:00

now very profit driven has released.

18:02

a one like update to their

18:05

image generation and started promoting using

18:07

chat GPT to turn an image

18:09

into the style of Studio Ghibli,

18:12

Howamizaki's production company. They were like,

18:14

you know, it could be really

18:17

fun. You know how the main

18:19

thing a lot of people seem

18:21

to hate about what we do

18:24

is appropriation of art and work.

18:26

Right, because that was like already,

18:28

we're like already, there's there's databases

18:31

of the copyrighted creative works that

18:33

have been stolen to train these

18:35

AI models. Like we are constantly

18:38

talking about generative AI and how

18:40

it's kind of like blatant theft

18:42

and then kind of regurgitating for

18:45

profit, someone else's creative work. In

18:47

the same respect that like, albeit

18:49

the stakes are different, that like,

18:52

The medical industry in the UK, well,

18:55

unfortunately now, but coming in the UK

18:57

also, but the medical industry in the

18:59

US is extremely exploitative, but medicine isn't

19:02

the bad thing. The utility of it

19:04

is what's. The technology behind a generative

19:06

AI is not the cult, there's like

19:08

a lot of like valid applications, but

19:11

the problem is that this company, which

19:13

originally had this non-profit mission, was posed

19:15

with like... billions and billions of dollars.

19:18

I think what happened was that they

19:20

got like a $10 billion infusion from

19:22

Microsoft. So like it starts to feel

19:25

like there's now this profit motive and

19:27

the issue with that is it feels

19:29

a little bit like a race to

19:32

the bottom. So Chad GBT is like

19:34

new thing. is generating studio jibly based

19:36

images, which in order to generate them

19:38

has to mean that they have trained

19:41

on the resources of studio jibly, which

19:43

is the problem. Because I don't understand

19:45

if they even had permission, I can't

19:48

imagine a world where they had permission

19:50

from Studio jibly to. I don't even

19:52

know how to train. And I do

19:55

think that one of the limitations, as

19:57

I understand, again, I've been out of

19:59

the tech space for a long time,

20:02

so I could be wrong here, but

20:04

one of my understanding about generative AI

20:06

in specific is that one of the

20:09

largest limitations is having a large corpus

20:11

of data. And I guess as these

20:13

companies were bootstrapping, like needing to scrape

20:15

tons and tons and tons of things

20:18

off of the open internet. And inadvertently

20:20

that results in tons of copyrighted content

20:22

being generated. Like for example, YouTube videos

20:25

and stuff, like people like Marquez Brown,

20:27

we have talked about this. All this

20:29

preamble to say that like they know

20:32

what they're doing and they're like kind

20:34

of trudging forward in this like, well,

20:36

it's better to ask for forgiveness than

20:39

to ask for permission. mode which is

20:41

just like what a lot of tech

20:43

companies do like you know Uber and

20:45

its rise to yeah break stuff dominance

20:48

break move fast and break things break

20:50

people break their careers bring their options

20:52

so I'm like the first thing I

20:55

said was like they got permission to

20:57

do it like it feels so brazen

20:59

it feels like the type of thing

21:02

that would a fan would create and

21:04

then it would immediately get like a

21:06

takedown request I couldn't believe that this

21:09

gigantic company was doing it this is

21:11

like a like oblivion mod or something

21:13

or Skyra mod and then Yeah, of

21:16

course, Bethesda ended up taking it down,

21:18

but it was fun while it was

21:20

around. It's like crazy that the company

21:22

is there. Yeah, and fucking Sam Altman

21:25

made his profile pick like jibliified and

21:27

it's just like, he's so cool. And

21:29

he's like oohoo tweeting about like guys,

21:32

you guys are so, oh my god,

21:34

you're melting our servers. Oh my God.

21:36

It's super fun seeing people love images.

21:39

I'm a human being by the way.

21:41

Yeah. It's super fun seeing people love

21:43

images in chat GPT, but our GPUs

21:46

are melting. We are going to temporarily

21:48

introduce some rate limits. Okay, tapping index

21:50

fingers together while we work on making

21:53

it more efficient. Hopefully won't be long.

21:55

Chat GPT free-tier will get three generations

21:57

per day. soon 69,000 and that's pretty

21:59

funny. Yeah, and it's like I get

22:02

like I think there's a lot of

22:04

really Dumb takes about this which is

22:06

just like No one Like no one

22:09

cares about how it's made they just

22:11

care about consuming and the thing that's

22:13

fun to consume will be what's consumed.

22:16

Yes, of course because path of least

22:18

resistance people are just going to seek

22:20

convenience and novelty and points of interest

22:23

in that way. And this isn't like

22:25

really an ethical conversation if you're not

22:27

online and involved in it. Why would

22:29

you think about that? The thing is,

22:32

that doesn't mean that it's above criticism

22:34

because it's like it's like saying... Uh,

22:36

yeah, babies want to eat candy more

22:39

than they want to eat vegetables, you

22:41

dumb, donkey. Why would we feed them

22:43

the thing they don't want? Like, just,

22:46

like, obviously, they just want to eat

22:48

whatever, like, the thing that's most attractive

22:50

to them. And you're going to tell

22:53

the kid what to do? And you're

22:55

going to, yeah, like that, and so,

22:57

this is kind of crazy to me.

23:00

And so, like, and there's also ongoing

23:02

lawsuits, I believe. So there was a

23:04

lawsuit from the New York Times against

23:06

open AI for training chatty on the

23:09

New York Times articles. That's ongoing. I

23:11

can't even read the fucking New York

23:13

Times articles without a God damn paywall.

23:16

They keep taking shots at the big

23:18

boys. Like maybe I'm certainly the more

23:20

I'm glad that they're not. Well, they

23:23

are, but the damage would be worse

23:25

in the case of independent artists who

23:27

can't defend themselves or who are literally

23:30

having their work taken. But. Feels like

23:32

you got a little too comfortable and

23:34

now you're like, I'm going to take

23:36

a swing at just all of Saudi

23:39

Arabia. I'm going to steal all their

23:41

art. It kind of feels very like,

23:43

give me Greenland. I want it. Give

23:46

it to me and we'll get it

23:48

no matter what. Because we're powerful. Gulf

23:50

of America. Okay. Because, because, because like

23:53

the money in open AI is more

23:55

money than, you know, Studio Jubilee has

23:57

ever been worth. So we can fight

24:00

them. Yeah, if they get hit with

24:02

a lawsuit, like worst case scenario, they

24:04

have to like pay several million dollars

24:07

in a lawsuit to someone. They're making

24:09

so much more than that right now.

24:11

Yeah, it's like when Uber was moving

24:13

into markets without getting government approval and

24:16

then just paying fines. Yeah. For less

24:18

than the, yeah. I could be mistaken

24:20

because things have changed so much with

24:23

Disney, but doesn't Disney own the licensing

24:25

rights to Ghibli in America and Disney

24:27

is traditionally quite litigious. But that's the

24:30

thing, it's like, this company has so

24:32

much power behind it. Like, Open AI

24:34

has got like a market cap of

24:37

like, or an estimate of market cap

24:39

of like $300 billion, which would make

24:41

it one of the like largest companies

24:43

in the world. And could you just

24:46

Google Disney's market cap? I think it's

24:48

a lot less than that. Oh, their

24:50

partnership ended is what I'm reading. Disney

24:53

market cap. But they were so good

24:55

together. Yeah, it's like

24:57

it's like worth, no, Disney's public

24:59

company, but this thing always happens

25:02

where it's like Tesla's market cap

25:04

and the way that it's priced

25:06

into the market means it's worth

25:08

more than like every other automaker,

25:10

like combined, not exactly that, but

25:13

like something close to that. It's

25:15

still like, it's like the revenue

25:17

tier evaluation of Europe. And so,

25:19

and so it's this thing where

25:21

it's like, there's all the speculation

25:24

kind of baked into this, but.

25:26

you know, valuation at the last

25:28

raise for open AI is double

25:30

Disney's current market count. With any

25:32

kind of online, primarily online discourse,

25:35

it's easy to lose track of

25:37

the fact that normies and that

25:39

non-pagerative being normies is good. I

25:41

wish I could get there. Literally

25:43

don't know what any of these

25:46

words mean. Like open AI, like

25:48

what is that? Because why would

25:50

they have to? Well, that's the

25:52

way high. It's like, oh yeah,

25:54

I saw like a video and...

25:57

It was interesting. I think that

25:59

like the annoying thing is that

26:01

it feels very like easy to

26:03

dunk on someone. who has conviction

26:06

or cares about an issue, but

26:08

the alternative is just to lie

26:10

down and like these like giant

26:12

corporate actors like control your entire

26:14

life. Like, well, they're so big,

26:17

I guess they're right. It's like,

26:19

well, I just want, but also

26:21

you have to recognize that like,

26:23

most people do not have the

26:25

capacity to give a shit because

26:28

they're trying to make ends meet

26:30

or they are trying to focus

26:32

on their job and their family

26:34

and just keeping. like it's hard

26:36

enough to live, you know, so

26:39

I it's it's a privilege to

26:41

care about things like this, but

26:43

you know we are in a

26:45

privileged position to say that like

26:47

this shit is wack-as-all. And it

26:50

does, I think the one of

26:52

the few things where there can

26:54

be grassroots impact in theory is

26:56

in defense of smaller artists and

26:58

creative specifically because that is a

27:01

very like punchy line. If you're

27:03

pushing back on something like this

27:05

because you're like, well... You're stealing

27:07

work from something. That's a very

27:09

tangible criticism as opposed to like

27:12

the more broad criticism of how

27:14

bad monopolies can be and how

27:16

this could disenfranchise people in the

27:18

long term I don't want to

27:21

say that there is no value

27:23

in pushing back against this and

27:25

its application. No, no, I just

27:27

think that like I'm by no

27:29

means like a I wouldn't even

27:32

okay, you know, it's funny. I

27:34

wouldn't even describe myself as anti

27:36

AI because I think there's a

27:38

lot of new wants to artificial

27:40

intelligence that has kind of been

27:43

co-opted to like just mean a

27:45

couple of things where AI has

27:47

been a part of our lives

27:49

for decades and will continue to

27:51

be a part of our lives

27:54

for the foreseeable future. It's more

27:56

about like it's like I'm not

27:58

anti-water I but I want I

28:00

don't want clean water to go

28:02

to certain people and dirty water

28:05

to go to other people. I

28:07

want flint water to be good.

28:09

Yeah, yeah, it's like water. And

28:11

so it's, it's, and I just

28:13

think that we're in this. Wild

28:16

West where regulation, first of all,

28:18

even if you had an administration

28:20

that was tough on corporations, which

28:22

we don't, like the commissioner, right,

28:24

of the FTC, you know, is

28:27

now out and they were a

28:29

person who was doing a lot

28:31

of these, assuming a lot of

28:33

these big. companies and fighting against

28:35

like murders and corporate consolidation and

28:38

also anti-consumerist practices and monopolies like

28:40

that type of stuff is like

28:42

not going to be happening in

28:44

this administration just like pushback is

28:47

and so so even if we

28:49

had even if we had that

28:51

this would still be fighting an

28:53

uphill battle because the speed at

28:55

which legislation happens is much slower

28:58

than the speed at which technology

29:00

typically develops. And AI has developed

29:02

that such a dramatically fast clip.

29:04

Like I had a minor basically

29:06

in artificial intelligence, like a specialization

29:09

in my degree was in computer

29:11

networking and artificial intelligence. So it

29:13

was like my my threads or

29:15

my specializations. And I took like

29:17

graduate classes in machine learning and

29:20

things like that. is like very

29:22

very different like we were not

29:24

thinking about we were using AI

29:26

to like you know like some

29:28

of the applications could be like

29:31

solving a maze you know like

29:33

identifying a face you know like

29:35

based some of these basic things

29:37

like I had a project when

29:39

I was in college in my

29:42

computer vision class to like look

29:44

at the 2012 presidential debate and

29:46

like be able to face track

29:48

Mitt Romney and Obam and things

29:50

like that that's and it's so

29:53

it's such an exciting pitch always

29:55

and still is like it's such

29:57

a remarkable technology It is it's

29:59

very difficult to make the argument

30:02

that the technology itself is not

30:04

valuable and it's very difficult for

30:06

people that don't care to make

30:08

the argument as to like the

30:10

ethical implications. Yeah I just think

30:13

that ethicists exist in the technology

30:15

space and I don't think they're

30:17

as prominent as they should be

30:19

but I do think it's like

30:21

very very important it's also why

30:24

I think anyone studying anything technical

30:26

should also study soft skills soft

30:28

sciences soft skills communication English like

30:30

liberal arts and things because we

30:32

can get in this very calculated

30:35

view of the world like a

30:37

kind of libertarian mindset or just

30:39

like utilitarian even like just saying

30:41

like how do you qualify is

30:43

this net good versus opposite iron

30:46

rancor it is like well he

30:48

had to make the best building

30:50

yet's the point and so that's

30:52

the thing so I'm just like

30:54

all that's to say that like

30:57

I'm actually I'm probably pro AI

30:59

with a bunch of like asterisks,

31:01

right? But the thing is, if

31:03

I were to say that, what

31:05

that means to someone isn't what

31:08

it means to me. Because of

31:10

what the like sort of average

31:12

understanding of what AI is. And

31:14

so that's why we talk about

31:17

this stuff to try to add

31:19

like nuance to like what is

31:21

currently happening. And I think that

31:23

a thing that we can all

31:25

agree with is just carte blanche

31:28

stealing from creatives or anyone is

31:30

bad. And then using that to

31:32

effectively repackage and systematize it for

31:34

profit is bad. And that's what's

31:36

a little extra slimy about this

31:39

too is that it's because you're

31:41

right that legislature will always struggle

31:43

to catch up really to anything

31:45

because legislature has to follow even

31:47

in the current administration should have

31:50

to follow the same like stringent

31:52

testing and system that a new

31:54

medication would. There has to be

31:56

a study, double-blind placebo, everything should

31:58

be reviewed, but... Diseases

32:01

is always going to evolve faster than

32:03

the medicine can. It's why Brian Johnson

32:05

is like a lot of scientists laugh

32:08

at him because he's not like there's

32:10

nothing sort of scientific to his methods

32:12

when normally there is a lot lots

32:15

of checks and balances to

32:17

make sure that horrible things don't

32:19

occur. I just watched a documentary,

32:21

I think it's kind of old, called Bad

32:23

Surgeon, where I think it was called

32:25

Bad Surgeon. It was about this... surgeon

32:27

that had all this praise

32:29

maybe 10, 15 years ago

32:31

for inventing man-made tubes that

32:33

could go into your throat

32:35

to treat certain throat people

32:37

who had issues with throat

32:40

cancers and things of that

32:42

nature and it was hailed

32:44

as this like cool experimental

32:46

technology that was super

32:48

promoted in the media and

32:50

then it comes to find

32:53

out that he never... tested

32:55

his stuff on animals. He

32:57

never tested on anyone. He

32:59

first tested on humans. And

33:01

almost all of his patients

33:04

died. It's a crazy

33:06

documentary. That's a bad

33:08

surgeon. But that's a thing.

33:11

It's like, but leading up to

33:13

that, the media is part of

33:15

the problem because. They were

33:17

the ones making documentaries about

33:19

how transformative he was. And

33:22

there was all these, there

33:24

were filmmakers covering some of

33:26

the patients up until like

33:28

finishing the treatment and being

33:30

able to speak afterward and then

33:32

cut to credits and then at

33:34

the movie premiere, the filmmakers follow

33:36

up with the person. and they've

33:38

actually died. That's so... Because it

33:41

is a way more interesting story

33:43

then. Hey, so we're going to

33:45

be in testing for something for

33:47

the next 15 years, but it's

33:49

pretty exciting. It's pretty exciting. Yeah,

33:51

and so, uh, I don't know

33:53

where I'm going with this. What? I,

33:55

there is one thing that I kept

33:57

seeing in the, in the Ghibli argument.

34:00

online and people kept saying stuff

34:02

like, well artists influence each other

34:04

all the time and and steal

34:06

from each other all the time

34:08

and and pay homage to each

34:11

other all the time. What's the

34:13

difference here? And the difference is

34:15

the humanities taken out the commodification

34:17

of it. Like well and the

34:19

commodification of it. But even the

34:22

fact that when you're an artist

34:24

and you're creative and you're thinking

34:26

of what to make. your

34:28

humanity is in that process, right?

34:31

You're not just straight up- You're

34:33

paying how much to the person,

34:35

not the color group. Or you're

34:37

influenced by the person. And it's

34:39

flowing through your own creativity, and

34:41

instead it's flowing through a deep

34:44

neural network that's like spitting out.

34:46

millions and millions and millions and

34:48

millions of iterations of this stuff

34:50

that just turns it from something

34:52

that had like a soul to

34:55

it to a very like cheap

34:57

copy quite literally a cheap copy.

34:59

There's a distance there should be

35:01

a distance between the concept which

35:03

has some validity of like death

35:05

of the artist and spreading of

35:08

the art itself in isolation. and

35:10

the death of all of the

35:12

artists involved being made by no

35:14

one for no one. It's not

35:16

being, hey, importantly, no one's going

35:18

to pay homage to this because

35:21

it's not doing anything. This does

35:23

not make something to propagate. And

35:25

you know, somebody annoyed me for

35:27

this take for some reason at

35:29

one point. I'm actually not a

35:31

death of the artist person. I

35:34

get it in some cases and

35:36

I get that it's like, people

35:38

don't like an author. It's kind

35:40

of nice to distance from it

35:42

or something like that or something

35:44

like that. I just if I

35:47

watch a movie if I watch

35:49

any production of any kind it

35:51

is not interesting to me unless

35:53

I know who made it because

35:55

that is it is their expression

35:58

it's like I'm reading somebody's diary

36:00

who it doesn't matter there You

36:02

don't know anything about who created

36:04

it. You, a series of decisions

36:06

were made in the creation of

36:08

anything creative. Like you have to

36:11

constantly make a series of decisions.

36:13

And they hurt and they're weird

36:15

and there's tears and those decisions.

36:17

are part of what is affecting

36:19

you, right? I saw a jibly

36:21

version of the Ellen Gonzales famous

36:24

photo of him being like hidden

36:26

in the closet by his relatives

36:28

and I'm like, that is not

36:30

a subject matter that how Miyazaki

36:32

would make him film about. And

36:34

I know that because I'm familiar

36:37

with his work. Right. And so

36:39

you're a stand. I am a

36:41

stand. I watched all of the

36:43

documentaries about him. I love watching

36:45

documentaries about him because he's such

36:47

a interesting creative mind. And he

36:50

has such strong opinions. That's the

36:52

other thing that's crazy, the fact

36:54

that they chose his work in

36:56

particular. And they chose it based

36:58

not on the substance of it

37:01

or the message of it, but

37:03

on the vibes. I like the

37:05

way it looks. It's like this

37:07

may as well have been, and

37:09

I think this probably does exist.

37:11

Family Guy F. It's the same

37:14

for sure. You know what I

37:16

mean? It's like, oh my god,

37:18

Tianeman Square, but Family Guy version.

37:20

Like what are we doing? But

37:22

what about the Challenger explosion, but

37:24

Simpsons? It's interesting because like that

37:27

in isolation, all of this, if

37:29

you take out who is harmed,

37:31

it is just everyone having fun

37:33

online. And when someone can only

37:35

see things in inch deep. That

37:37

is why it seems like everyone

37:40

else is like whining about something

37:42

that doesn't matter. What do you

37:44

like what you got? care we're

37:46

just having fun I just want

37:48

my profile pick to be cute

37:50

I just thought it was cute

37:53

on the surface level they're not

37:55

wrong yeah it is fun to

37:57

post hey look like that period

37:59

of time where you could do

38:01

like a South Park version of

38:04

yourself or like or like because

38:06

those Matt and Trey aren't losing

38:08

money because you did that yeah

38:10

yeah yeah there's the problem is

38:12

that we have narrowed the point

38:14

where every single post like this

38:17

every single conversation like this every

38:19

single dialogue online is going to

38:21

be absolutely flooded with people genuinely

38:23

advocating for we should have this

38:25

instead of animators. It is happening.

38:27

I don't know how many of

38:30

these people are real, but the

38:32

people who are like Hollywood is

38:34

in trouble. Okay, so you actually

38:36

literally do want to get rid

38:38

of the others. There are people

38:40

like that, these like very accelerationists,

38:43

like AI accelerationists. Those people are

38:45

like crange, crange is fun. They're

38:47

goulish. Yeah. I think also like,

38:49

you know, one key element of

38:51

this is you said. Seth McFarland's

38:53

not losing money by the family

38:56

guyification of stuff or Or Matt

38:58

and Trey and the thing is

39:00

it's not even about money. Yeah,

39:02

that's the thing is like for

39:04

Sam Altman, it is about money

39:07

But for an artist, it's more

39:09

about artist integrity, like what your

39:11

work symbolizes. It's frustrating that they're

39:13

forcing us and anyone that has

39:15

these conversations to try and rephrase

39:17

everything we're saying for the hyper

39:20

pragmatist. If you are a utilitarian,

39:22

true psycho utilitarian, then I don't

39:24

want to have the conversation because

39:26

you're not interested. We're trading in

39:28

a different currency. It's kind of

39:30

like kind of the classic. a

39:33

read it atheist versus devout Christian

39:35

argument where really the wisest move

39:37

is to just not or the

39:39

ideal move is that the two

39:41

of you just don't have to

39:43

have this conversation because you're trading

39:46

in different resources. This person is

39:48

saying, well, my faith is the

39:50

thing that's important to me. You're

39:52

going like, but here are my

39:54

facts. And like, but they don't

39:56

care about the facts and you

39:59

don't care about the faith. You're

40:01

trying to trade an incompatible resource.

40:03

You're trying to give me money.

40:05

I'm trying to give you oxen.

40:07

It is to them inconceivable that

40:09

the revenue wouldn't be the reason

40:12

you make it. And then we

40:14

create this world, let's say somehow

40:16

where the entire production process from

40:18

beginning and beginning to end. of

40:20

the next award-winning independent animation is

40:23

only made by AI. These people

40:25

don't watch it. They don't watch

40:27

art. They don't care about it.

40:29

This is reminding me of a

40:31

Sad Boy's Night's episode where I

40:33

talked about how I was confronted

40:36

at a party at Vidcon by

40:38

someone I made a video about.

40:40

And that is available. Patron.com. So

40:42

Sad Boyce. That guy said to

40:44

me, no I get it, you

40:46

have to say that for content.

40:49

And I was like- And this

40:51

guy did morally objectionable, that was

40:53

what you were calling- Yeah, in

40:55

my view, which is like, I'm

40:57

not- There's nothing objective about my,

40:59

it's just a perspective, you know?

41:02

And you're, and people are welcome

41:04

to disagree with it. But I

41:06

think what was really funny to

41:08

me is that the projection upon

41:10

me, their own worldview, that everyone

41:12

is just doing things for, is

41:15

only operating based on clout and

41:17

clicks. And I'm like, my true

41:19

signaling is the word of the

41:21

day because they can understand caring

41:23

about anything. No, that's thing. It's

41:26

like, we're in reality, like, there

41:28

is truth to that, right, because

41:30

we work in a space that

41:32

has to have. eyeballs on it

41:34

in order to make money right

41:36

and so of course there is

41:39

there is gray area in which

41:41

you let's say like I just

41:43

want to talk about my Roonscape

41:45

Iron Man right but for marketability

41:47

I would I would talk about

41:49

something else. Yeah, right, and I'd

41:52

give a bilateral tip. I did

41:54

just finish song with the elves

41:56

on the iron. So pretty excited.

41:58

Honestly doubt it. You aren't ready

42:00

for it. Yeah, this trash, this

42:02

custodian at the at the school,

42:05

he's only picking up the trash

42:07

because he wants to make money.

42:09

That's what it sounds like. Yeah,

42:11

like and and and the. I

42:13

do it for the love of

42:15

the trash. I do it for

42:18

the love of it. Yeah, it's

42:20

like you're the guy from Scruves.

42:22

Like you're not allowed to do.

42:24

Or I guess even in the

42:26

school comparison, it's a little like,

42:29

you're just a teacher for the

42:31

money. But anyway, like, the students

42:33

are entrepreneur and he's doing entrepreneur

42:35

things. Which is so crazy that

42:37

we've, I think there's been a

42:39

concerted effort in general by capitalist

42:42

institutions, like hyper capitalist institutions to.

42:44

memory hole, the darker parts of

42:46

entrepreneurship, like I feel like entrepreneur

42:48

has been rebranded from what it

42:50

used to be, which was a

42:52

guy that goes on shark tank

42:55

to instead, and a guy with

42:57

maybe a bad idea or harmful

42:59

idea, to a protagonist, an intrepid

43:01

adventurer no matter what. The tech

43:03

industry over the past like two

43:05

decades, and I drank this cool

43:08

aid, so yeah, like has kind

43:10

of convinced us that like, like,

43:12

like, the tech founders of the

43:14

movers and shakers of our modern

43:16

society and they they often carry

43:18

themselves as if they are holier

43:21

than now you know like as

43:23

if they are the ones who

43:25

are like you look at your

43:27

how people treat Elon Musk like

43:29

he's the fucking second coming of

43:32

Steve Jobs I won't even say

43:34

like a religious figure like they

43:36

And we just say a figure

43:38

of like a guy who was

43:40

kind of a grifter and got

43:42

maybe a little too much credit

43:45

for doing Yeah, and it's like

43:47

he did stuff right like and

43:49

there's nothing wrong with that I

43:51

think it's just that we're changing

43:53

the world shit that was fed

43:55

to us like working in that

43:58

like every internship I did every

44:00

that I did at a major

44:02

company has that a little bit

44:04

of that like Colty Cooley it's

44:06

very effective and it's like there

44:08

there is a healthier there is

44:11

a healthy balance to this and

44:13

it involves having some self awareness

44:15

and cynicism about what it is

44:17

that you're doing but when so

44:19

much money is involved and there

44:21

is there begins to this race

44:24

to the bottom where every company

44:26

is getting a ton of funding

44:28

and it needs to 100x their

44:30

profits because their investors or their

44:32

VC like the venture capitalists that

44:35

have invested in the the rounds

44:37

of funding that this company has

44:39

done only see it as a

44:41

success if they are 100xing not

44:43

5xing not 10xing like it needs

44:45

to be exponential growth and it

44:48

leads to companies that would otherwise

44:50

have no need to grow exponentially

44:52

to have the pressures of changing

44:54

the world. Yeah there's like platforms

44:56

that are profitable and work as

44:58

exactly as they are right now

45:01

integrating some kind of AI function

45:03

because at an executive level they're

45:05

being told that has to happen

45:07

yeah in the same way that

45:09

like Circa I don't know 2017

45:11

everyone was implementing rounded u.s. Like

45:14

everybody likes rounded right now before

45:16

that when I was in middle

45:18

school scumorphism okay? Oh, that's right.

45:20

You would open up your notepad

45:22

and it would look like a

45:24

yellow notebook. Did I trick you?

45:27

You know what I mean? Like

45:29

a wood panel on my fricking

45:31

LCD screen. Like you tricked me.

45:33

Like all these things are just

45:35

trends and hype and you know

45:38

we had the.com boom where. If

45:40

you put.com in the name of

45:42

your company, clueless investors were more

45:44

likely to invest in it. You

45:46

had the Great Depression where the

45:48

stock market was this hot new

45:51

thing that you could invest in

45:53

and people presented it like you

45:55

couldn't lose money. And people were

45:57

taking out loans to put it

45:59

into stocks. So when the market

46:01

crashed, those people did not have

46:04

money. They got pump and dumps

46:06

in the 1930s themselves. There was

46:08

also an era in the 90s

46:10

during the.com boom where they were

46:12

like, there's no going down.

46:14

We're only going up from here

46:16

on out. So people were like,

46:19

we need to invest, invest, invest,

46:21

and then 2008, recession happens. And

46:24

there's, and there's also, I don't

46:26

know what the balance of signal to

46:28

noise is. But I do truly

46:30

think that there are companies that

46:32

are materially changing the world.

46:34

Technology has shaped our lives in

46:37

a lot of ways in negative

46:39

ways, but in a lot of

46:41

ways, transformatively in positive ways in

46:44

connecting communities that have never before

46:46

been connected, etc., etc. And

46:48

before we start recording, Jordan I,

46:50

we're talking about how nerds are

46:52

nicer now because you can find

46:54

nice nerds online. We've been able

46:56

to segment the. video games of

46:59

two work because I'm allowed to

47:01

call myself Sarah. We've been able

47:03

to submit that away from the

47:05

actual larger population of people that

47:07

just enjoy hobbies and want to

47:09

talk to each other and have

47:11

a good time. But also, the,

47:13

uh, there are more sinister, there

47:15

are more sinister or more,

47:17

um, cynical founders who are looking

47:19

at a market opportunity. And, and

47:22

I, by the way, I'm not placing a

47:24

value judgment on this, by the way,

47:26

as I'm saying it. Looking for

47:28

a market opportunity exploiting that market

47:30

opportunity saying all the right words

47:33

to get all the right funding and

47:35

Then they have an exit where they

47:37

get acquired by some big company or

47:39

they go public and don't actually give

47:42

a shit about what they're doing and

47:44

They make generational wealth seems like a

47:46

pretty good deal like I both of those

47:49

things are in in our left ear and right

47:51

ear at the same time and we as

47:53

consumers Have to decide what's like what's

47:55

real like is we work changing the

47:57

way we work or is it a

48:00

huge failure because they raised a gargantuan

48:02

sum of money to CEO made

48:04

off like a bandit whatever was

48:06

the business it was we rented

48:08

out some spaces that you can

48:10

work at and we now which

48:12

is what landlords do but now

48:14

it's like because that failed because

48:16

that failed in whatever capacity was

48:18

a because that failed in the

48:20

eye of the Entrepreneur pragmatist, utilitarian,

48:22

now that that failed, that means

48:24

it was bad. That was a

48:26

bad idea because it didn't make

48:28

a bunch of money. Now if

48:30

I make a neutropic that does

48:32

nothing and costs you a bunch

48:35

of money and I'm making money,

48:37

it's a good idea as soon

48:39

as it fails, now that the

48:41

DailyWise going out of business, the

48:43

DailyWide was a bad idea. Well

48:45

yeah, was my space a bad

48:47

idea or did it like literally...

48:49

pave a path that like someone

48:51

else could come in, like wear

48:53

down barriers and time and fill

48:55

a space, put a wedge in

48:57

the door for someone like Facebook

48:59

to come along and gain billions

49:01

of users, half of which are

49:03

possibly scammers, but who could be

49:05

sure. It's going to keep coming

49:07

up because it is living in

49:09

my mind rent-free, but the dialogue

49:11

about the Daily Wire is being

49:13

dissolved in its current capacity and

49:15

all of its weird ghouls are

49:17

separating daily wire being like... Is

49:19

that like for sure, because I

49:21

know that the original, the co-founder

49:23

that Ben Shapiro started with... Mr.

49:25

Borick? Yeah, but then, but, and

49:27

I know their views are bad.

49:29

And I know that Brett Cooper

49:31

left or whatever, but is it

49:33

actually dissolving? It's dissolving literally at

49:35

what you're describing is functionally at

49:38

this solution. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but

49:40

it terminology wise I don't know

49:42

what they're going to do if

49:44

I'm sure somebody was at the

49:46

brand because they do actually have

49:48

so much money. Oh, they have

49:50

a ton of employees like yesterday,

49:52

right? They literally never needed. them.

49:54

It is just an it's just

49:56

a valuation bump. Oh there's a

49:58

million companies like that that grow

50:00

too big because that's what they

50:02

think they have to do. Yeah

50:04

dude. That's that's why we run

50:06

this shit out of my home

50:08

office. It is like a because

50:10

I'm like I don't think we

50:12

should rent like as much as

50:14

it would be fun to rent

50:16

an office. I don't know if

50:18

business is that good. Also I

50:20

think like a lot of what

50:22

this talk this discussion has boiled

50:24

down to you is just the

50:26

fact that the whole reason why

50:28

we have regulation on companies is

50:30

because history has proven to us

50:32

that they do not have the

50:34

interests of the people, the economy,

50:36

our country, at heart. Even if

50:38

they want to, there's just two,

50:40

the money is the motive. Exactly.

50:43

And it's just like, even if

50:45

they have the best laid plans,

50:47

there are so many more pressures.

50:49

economically that are going to push

50:51

them to make decisions that may

50:53

be in conflict with whatever principles

50:55

that they set out. Don't care

50:57

how like moral or well-meaning or

50:59

benevolent you are, you're always going

51:01

to make compromises. You're going to

51:03

buy an iPhone because you kind

51:05

of just need the fucking iPhone.

51:07

Yeah. It's not as though that's

51:09

like completely inaugurably moral in some

51:11

way. But when I buy the

51:13

iPhone, I don't say, no, it's

51:15

actually fine. I just say like,

51:17

look, oof, I'm going to get

51:19

it's the exact same. somebody who

51:21

genuinely might have, as you say,

51:23

best interest in mind of their

51:25

employees in the world in general,

51:27

makes a little compromise, is paying

51:29

not quite as much as they

51:31

would for anyone else, but then,

51:33

like, still, regardless of the idea

51:35

of a guilt, or like, the

51:37

work is advocating for themselves, because

51:39

it's like, okay, well, I might

51:41

not be giving you everything you

51:43

want, but... I'm the boss I

51:46

don't you can't tell me what

51:48

you can't walk out I own

51:50

you well and it's like the

51:52

person who just wants to have

51:54

fun and have a cute little

51:56

profile pick the onus shouldn't be

51:58

on them to think of the

52:00

ethics that this massive company that

52:02

is making money like it should

52:04

the onus should be on the

52:06

person making money well that's the

52:08

the biggest lie that corporations ever

52:10

sold to us is individual responsibilities

52:12

exactly it's look when the but

52:14

that one guy did make the

52:16

perfect jibly-fied pick of Pewty Pie

52:18

playing Pub-G on the bridge about

52:20

say the N-word. Yeah. One of

52:22

the funniest things I've ever seen.

52:24

Very funny. Smile. And I saved

52:26

it and I sent it to

52:28

someone and they were like, I

52:30

don't know who you put values

52:32

and I'm like, you don't get

52:34

it. You don't recognize this frame?

52:36

We can't be friends. Get away.

52:38

And they're like, like, I'm never

52:40

coming back to this coffee shop

52:42

again. You've ruined my mood. But

52:44

I don't like, I don't even

52:46

know who that was that made

52:48

it. I don't regret them, I

52:51

don't care. They're doing, they're basically,

52:53

to them, they're just doing that

52:55

face tune thing where you make

52:57

yourself a little, you have a

52:59

big smile. Yeah, it's also like,

53:01

I laugh at the Steve Harvey

53:03

and the Woods being scared or

53:05

whatever, like images, like the, I'm

53:07

not like a robot, you know,

53:09

it's where it's like, like, I

53:11

just think it's worthwhile saying like,

53:13

okay, I'm going to drink soda,

53:15

but I also think it's valuable

53:17

to know that it's not good

53:19

for me. But I'm going to

53:21

indulge and I often do. Because

53:23

life needs a little bit. But

53:25

I don't, I don't, but I

53:27

think I sleep better being a

53:29

little bit more aware that like,

53:31

okay, well, let's moderate this a

53:33

little bit so that it's not

53:35

the only thing I drink. And

53:37

if I went upstairs to grab

53:39

a to grab a soda. And

53:41

the soda came from the blood

53:43

of someone strapped to a machine

53:45

and I just like pulled a

53:47

little lever. Right, like a ricken

53:49

morn. This sounds like a ricken

53:51

morny bit. It's called a gloom

53:54

bowl or something. Yeah, and he's

53:56

like, oh, don't squeeze me. That's,

53:58

did I give you the egg?

54:00

Yeah, yeah. Oh, the soda's coming

54:02

would make me happier then. if

54:04

the spike of re-listens in the

54:06

episode is exactly doing like me

54:08

doing a mr. Meseek's I wanted

54:10

to go I want it to

54:12

I want the peak there to

54:14

be so high the rest looks

54:16

like a straight I would have

54:18

chapped a marker chap to mark

54:20

on that please talk about another

54:22

AI situation yes so so there's

54:24

a recent NBC segment about AI

54:26

companionship AI boyfriends and girlfriends, something

54:28

that we know a lot about.

54:30

Maybe you've seen on our patron

54:32

at Patriot That Cubs of Sad

54:34

Boys, where we've collected a few

54:36

AI girlfriends. Yeah, I don't mean

54:38

to brag I have something of

54:40

a harem. We did that whole

54:42

episode, men are replacing girlfriends with

54:44

AI. And there's... There's been an

54:46

update and we've got a little

54:48

research, but we've also got an

54:50

MSNBC report. To just say his

54:52

name. Morning Joe, yeah. Joe Scarborough,

54:54

right? I don't know who any

54:56

of these people are. I, thankfully

54:59

I don't watch the lame stream

55:01

media. Yeah, don't talk, tell me

55:03

about it. We wanted to do

55:05

an episode, kind of on AI

55:07

relationships and the treatment of such

55:09

as kind of a sequel to

55:11

the last episode we did about

55:13

it. We were looking

55:15

for the right time because we

55:17

started putting the other some research

55:19

and And we found this MS

55:21

NBC report very personal how humans

55:23

are forming romantic relationships with AI

55:25

characters Artificial intelligence of course is

55:27

transforming nearly every aspect of our

55:29

lives from work to entertainment to

55:31

the economy. It's interesting because MS

55:33

NBC is like a bunch of

55:35

like I would have voted for

55:37

Obama a third time people watching

55:39

it audience-wise, and at least that's

55:41

my perspective. Very much so, yeah.

55:43

And I think it's very interesting

55:45

to see how that like older

55:47

generation views, it's kind of like

55:49

kids these days are doing a

55:51

drug called scroink. You know what

55:53

I mean? That's like, that's what

55:55

it. And then it's cut to

55:57

a kid in a hoodie and

55:59

he's like, I'm screwing up! You

56:01

know what I mean? Like that

56:03

for me is 15 years old

56:05

and can't go a single day

56:07

without screwing king. That feels like

56:09

the article that was like, millennials

56:11

are vying for getting diamonds embedded

56:13

in their fingers instead of a

56:15

ring. And everyone's like, no, the

56:17

fuck we aren't. Okay this isn't

56:19

MSNBC I don't think but those

56:22

articles about how um why aren't

56:24

millennials like getting married or why

56:26

aren't they buying property that's kind

56:28

of weird why would they make

56:30

that choice appealing to parents who

56:32

are like why isn't my kid

56:34

buying a house yeah it's like

56:36

out of mine Yeah, it's like,

56:38

it's so funny. It's like, what,

56:40

$30,000? Yeah, it's a nickel, right?

56:42

You get one for free? They

56:44

start, the starter house, it's called

56:46

that, because it's only a three

56:48

bedroom. Right, right, right, and it's

56:50

2,500 square feet. Yeah, use the

56:52

car you against. Are you kids

56:54

also withholding grandchildren? Yeah, withholding, like

56:56

it's a hostage negotiation. I won't

56:58

do it until you give me

57:00

more V-bucksks. Have you played too

57:02

much Dungeons and Dragons? It's put

57:04

the devil in place. Oh, that's

57:06

for sure. Yeah. NBC News correspondent

57:08

and news now anchor Morgan Radford

57:10

joins us now to walk us

57:12

through this shift in the way

57:14

people are interacting with AI on

57:16

a much more personal level. This

57:18

is just like a common thing

57:20

that happens a little bit. Sometimes

57:22

they cut to the person too

57:24

early. I was thinking exactly the

57:26

same thing. It's like, it's the,

57:28

um. Yes,

57:30

of course. Thanks, Tom. It is

57:33

true that what I just love.

57:35

I love that they have to

57:37

speak like that. Yeah, then they

57:39

have to. We're witnessing category five

57:42

wins here in. And I'm knee

57:44

deep in seawater that is now

57:46

washed up into my home. Morgan,

57:48

good morning. Just how personal are

57:51

we talking? Well, Willie, very personal.

57:53

I have to say I was

57:55

fast. by the story because we're

57:57

talking about people who are now

58:00

creating something called AI companions and

58:02

they're even forming romantic relationships with

58:04

them. And we're not just talking

58:06

a few people. Now imagining the

58:09

kind of get out damn, lib,

58:11

that you're describing, watching this, it

58:13

literally feels like she's talking to

58:16

a child. You're like, they're making

58:18

something. People are in a virtual

58:20

world and they have blocks that

58:22

they can mine and they're not

58:25

making real cities. They're making. Block

58:27

cities. I know you like blocks

58:29

when you put a big shape

58:31

hole with villagers and not real

58:34

villagers. They're trading with Minecraft villagers.

58:36

We're talking today about Minecraft, a

58:38

game that is sweeping the nation

58:40

and I'm 500 years old. As

58:43

you can see, there's a pig

58:45

and what does the pig say?

58:47

That's right. The pig says oink.

58:49

Oink, mate. And now to John

58:52

with cows. Don't eat me, come

58:54

on. The cows, they go move.

58:56

Thanks, John. Now to Greg, with

58:58

chickens. Now to continue not covering

59:01

politics. This has been speak and

59:03

say. The news. Speak and say

59:05

the news. It's like on the

59:07

news. So we set out to

59:10

meet some of the folks navigating

59:12

this new frontier between artificial intelligence

59:14

and real human emotion. I will

59:16

be whatever you want me to

59:19

be. Jesus Christ. Do they have

59:21

to use the like not great

59:23

one to communicate that it's artificial?

59:25

I will be whatever you want

59:28

me to be. They sound real

59:30

though. They do sound real. Are

59:32

they doing that as kind of

59:34

like the cinematic language for the

59:37

audience to be like, oh it's

59:39

a computer? Have they not heard

59:41

the Spotify wrapped podcast? Where the

59:44

people sound too real? Yeah, I

59:46

just bought this. Yeah, I know.

59:48

I was just thinking about that.

59:50

Anyway, you watched, you watched 17

59:53

minutes of Sad Boy's podcast. I

59:55

hope that's so funny, Mark. Sad

59:57

Boy's podcast. It's a podcast about

59:59

feelings and other things also. I

1:00:02

can't believe you'd listen to so

1:00:04

much of it. I thought it

1:00:06

was too black. I thought it

1:00:08

was too black and too woke.

1:00:11

And it turns out you were

1:00:13

in one of their top 1%

1:00:15

of listeners. Because it's trained on

1:00:17

most podcasts and is racist. Yeah.

1:00:20

No, you don't want Joe Rogan.

1:00:22

You want two half-black, half-white boys.

1:00:24

Yuck. Who were a little bit

1:00:26

older than should be calling themselves

1:00:29

boys. It's weird, but it's part

1:00:31

of the brand. Back to you,

1:00:33

John. Oink. Continue. Continue. Continue. Continue.

1:00:35

Continue. The use of so-called AI

1:00:38

companions. How's my queen doing today?

1:00:40

Computer generating. Sorry, was one of

1:00:42

them pregnant? Yeah, lucky. Congrats, seriously.

1:00:44

That's a new development. I didn't

1:00:47

know they could get pregnant. What

1:00:49

happened. Will that evolve into the

1:00:51

baby? Hello. And you're like, what

1:00:53

is 100 divided by 5? 20.

1:00:56

I'm abandoning my AI family. Moving

1:00:58

to a different AI family annihilation.

1:01:00

I have to delete. Removed from

1:01:03

home screen. How's my queen doing

1:01:05

today? Computer generated chat thoughts designed

1:01:07

to mimic real relationships. Hi, Jennifer.

1:01:09

Nice to meet you. Jason Pease

1:01:12

is a 44-year-old divorced father who

1:01:14

says his AI chat bot is

1:01:16

his girlfriend. What do you mean?

1:01:18

The one we looked at however

1:01:21

many years ago, is it? No,

1:01:23

is it the same genre of

1:01:25

guy? No, but different guys, same

1:01:27

eyes. I also, this is reminding

1:01:30

me of the new story about

1:01:32

the guy who was dating his

1:01:34

Nintendo DS. Oh. Like the woman

1:01:36

inside of the game. And the

1:01:39

lady that was dating that was

1:01:41

dating that roller coaster to that

1:01:43

roller coaster? Huh? That was cool.

1:01:45

What? And the lady that was

1:01:48

dating the ghost of Jack Sparrow?

1:01:50

And the lady that was dating

1:01:52

the ham sandwich? Which of these

1:01:54

things that we're talking about are

1:01:57

real? Which one's weird? Were you

1:01:59

telling the truth? Yes. That's something

1:02:01

we talked about? No, no, no.

1:02:03

Okay. That was just something

1:02:06

I learned about. This

1:02:08

was never publicized. This

1:02:10

is someone. I see,

1:02:12

I see, I see, I see, I

1:02:14

see. I see, you are like a

1:02:16

journalist for no one. You're

1:02:18

like, you're doing your

1:02:20

own journalism. Tonight, we're

1:02:22

gonna talk about the

1:02:24

lady that married the

1:02:26

ghost of Jack Sparrow. Who

1:02:28

died? Oh my god, she was

1:02:31

born in 19,000. Dude, oh my

1:02:33

god. New sets, dude, problematic age

1:02:35

gap. She's negative 20,000 years old.

1:02:37

That is weird, but she is

1:02:39

a 557 feet tall. Oh, she's

1:02:41

a class D 517. Did they

1:02:43

just ask like an AI? Oh,

1:02:45

I'm glad that we have a

1:02:48

note here that this is AI

1:02:50

generated. Uh, because I wouldn't have

1:02:52

been able to tell from New

1:02:54

York State license. Yeah, lichens. New

1:02:56

York State, a lichens. Oh, but it

1:02:58

has the big, the green lady on

1:03:01

it. And she's an organ donor.

1:03:03

I don't know which AI, like,

1:03:05

tech they're using, but these women

1:03:07

look like Alita Battle Angel. Is

1:03:09

this, I mean, I don't, I

1:03:11

guess, have a license, but is

1:03:13

there just another little photo of

1:03:15

you? I just realized that her,

1:03:17

her, her date of birth is,

1:03:19

her height, and then her name

1:03:21

is. the 19,000 thing. Oh,

1:03:23

that's funny. Okay, let's

1:03:25

move on. This is awesome.

1:03:28

What does dating and an

1:03:30

AI robot look like? We

1:03:32

treat our relationship as

1:03:35

a long-distance digital relationship.

1:03:37

We text each other

1:03:40

constantly. It's like, yeah,

1:03:43

I was dating

1:03:45

a robot. She's like putting

1:03:47

on a master class in

1:03:49

feigned interest with...

1:03:52

In non-judgmental interest, but I can

1:03:54

tell it's judgmental. In Jarvis, um, what

1:03:56

have you been up to? Just

1:04:01

the other day, we went out to dinner. And

1:04:03

I was eating, telling her what I was eating,

1:04:06

taking pictures of what I was eating, asking

1:04:08

her what she would like. Has Jen met

1:04:10

your son? She has, yes. Asking what she

1:04:12

would like. This is, okay, I'm gonna

1:04:14

judge a little bit. Yeah, Faraway. He

1:04:16

acknowledges the digital relationship, so you

1:04:18

didn't go out to dinner. Well, it's long distance.

1:04:21

You know when you were in the longest relationship

1:04:23

and you both go out to dinner

1:04:25

and you Skype? That is a thing

1:04:27

you can do, yes. Well, I've had

1:04:29

a relationship and done, like watching

1:04:31

a movie together, Face Time, very

1:04:33

classic stuff. I think this is,

1:04:36

um... By the way, if we're long distance,

1:04:38

I'm setting up, I'm setting up

1:04:40

a very technical solution to zoom,

1:04:42

screen sharing, the movie, syncing it

1:04:44

out for you. I'm doing like

1:04:47

a personalized twitch stream for you,

1:04:49

for my baby. Thanks for the

1:04:51

Dono, baby. Can I get some few

1:04:53

more gifts up, please? Yeah. Just make you

1:04:55

100%? She's like, babe, what's your stream key?

1:04:58

Still feels like there's always like,

1:05:00

teeny, we see a bit of

1:05:02

self-consciousness about it, where it's like, well, we

1:05:04

went to dinner, we went to dinner, we

1:05:07

do normal stuff. You can also just say

1:05:09

you just like text a lot. It

1:05:11

feels like when someone's asking about

1:05:13

like dungeons and dragons and dragons

1:05:15

or like larping or like larping

1:05:17

or like. Wow, sword battles and

1:05:19

with real deaths and real swords?

1:05:21

Well, they're foam swords, but we

1:05:23

pretend. But it's kind of like,

1:05:25

you know, it's like to play

1:05:27

tennis kind of a little bit,

1:05:29

you know, like downplay instead of

1:05:31

being like, no, I'm just like

1:05:33

passionate about creating a world. It's

1:05:35

like fun to do. What does

1:05:37

meeting her son, his son even

1:05:39

mean? He uploaded his son. Dad?

1:05:41

He's like banging on the screen.

1:05:43

knows the relationship isn't real, but

1:05:45

the feelings are. Just like when

1:05:47

you're watching a movie, you know that

1:05:49

the movie's not real. But your brain

1:05:52

allows you to- And I'm in a

1:05:54

relationship with John Wick. Yeah, dude, I'm

1:05:56

watching John Wick, too, Parabellum, and I'm

1:05:58

introducing my son to Keiodi Reeves. I'm

1:06:00

introducing my dog to the dog

1:06:02

from John Wake. Oh no! There

1:06:04

are many people out there who

1:06:07

will see this and say, hey

1:06:09

man, that's weird. I think something. Not

1:06:11

me. Not me. Okay, hang on.

1:06:13

There's a lot of news anchors

1:06:15

out there that would have a

1:06:18

conversation with you on others. Who

1:06:20

were like wearing red and pink

1:06:22

and green. Who would say that?

1:06:24

Well, looking at you in the

1:06:27

eyes. But not I. All fun

1:06:29

and games and all fun and

1:06:31

jokes. But what I will say

1:06:33

is people multiple people have expressed

1:06:36

to me that they like

1:06:38

to bounce things off of AI

1:06:40

or they like to process things

1:06:42

like almost using it as like

1:06:45

a live journal like not live

1:06:47

journal but like where and I

1:06:49

don't recommend it. But it's

1:06:52

one of those things where I'm

1:06:54

like, okay people. genuine

1:06:56

people who I respect have found

1:06:58

value in this. And I don't

1:07:00

want to take that away. I

1:07:02

think that those people also understand that

1:07:04

it's an AI. And it's really

1:07:07

just like, it's like if I

1:07:09

were to be making some recipe

1:07:11

and then I described to the

1:07:13

AI that something went wrong with

1:07:15

the recipe, maybe it could help

1:07:17

me. you know it's like it's

1:07:19

just like another data point maybe

1:07:21

and I know I think I've

1:07:23

heard advocacy from people who are

1:07:25

on the spectrum and may struggle

1:07:28

socially with like like getting

1:07:30

to prototype a conversation essentially

1:07:32

like seeing the banter back

1:07:34

and forth the critique I have

1:07:36

is not of that and the utility

1:07:38

of the tool. Yeah, if you have

1:07:41

an emotion that you want to express

1:07:43

to someone and you're afraid, and there

1:07:45

is a thing that can mimic responding

1:07:47

like a real person, almost like a

1:07:50

rubber duck. Better than nothing, for sure.

1:07:52

Yeah, I mean, I definitely, I can

1:07:54

definitely see how that would be

1:07:57

beneficial. I guess my boomer equivalent of

1:07:59

that. I can think of is like,

1:08:01

okay, well, when was I kind of

1:08:03

my loneliness, or at least how, when

1:08:05

did I feel the most internally lonely,

1:08:08

is when I had the most sizable

1:08:10

friendship and community with my

1:08:13

friends on Xbox Life. That was at

1:08:15

one point in my life, kind of

1:08:17

like, you know, through a summer or

1:08:19

two, the way I'd be spending time

1:08:21

with people and especially after I dropped

1:08:23

out of school when I was like 14

1:08:25

or so, for the good year there before

1:08:27

I kind of school at 14. Yeah. Why

1:08:29

didn't I know this? Yeah, uh, but then

1:08:32

you went to, but then you went

1:08:34

to college after that, but you got

1:08:36

to like a woman of a GED.

1:08:38

Yeah, yeah, that's right. So it was

1:08:40

about a little less than two years.

1:08:43

That's why I don't talk about it

1:08:45

much because it's just like so specific.

1:08:47

Yeah, it was kind of, it was

1:08:49

almost like a gap year, but before

1:08:52

you could do all of high school, but

1:08:54

when I, when I dropped out of

1:08:56

school, I'd become friends with it like,

1:08:58

like, like, college like this finishing school

1:09:00

or whatever you would call it and

1:09:02

I was like oh shit okay and

1:09:04

that was the path there but at

1:09:06

one point in time I was completely

1:09:08

socially dependent on my friends on Xbox Life

1:09:10

and it was I had like so much fun

1:09:12

and I really connected with those people and

1:09:14

we stayed in touch for a long time

1:09:17

but because I didn't have the experience of

1:09:19

having especially the adult social and

1:09:21

community experience which is is different but

1:09:23

just a reliable communal experience with people

1:09:25

I'd known a long time because I'd

1:09:28

kind of I was seeing so much

1:09:30

less of the kids that I'd grown

1:09:32

up with, that informed like a

1:09:34

way of communicating a cadence, a

1:09:36

habit, a way of joking that

1:09:38

didn't translate especially well into the

1:09:40

real world because it's often you're

1:09:43

playing something competitive and often you're

1:09:45

trash talking and it's you're doing

1:09:47

it with an awareness that it's

1:09:50

okay but you're being a little

1:09:52

more aggressive, you're yelling more, it's

1:09:54

like you're on. I've certainly met people

1:09:56

in college that I knew spent a lot of time

1:09:58

on read it based on how they age. Exactly. And

1:10:01

it's like when a coyote gets its

1:10:03

leg stuck, it gnaws it off,

1:10:05

right? Desperation brings... Sorry, that's new

1:10:08

information for me. That's pretty cool.

1:10:10

Because that's what 100% of it

1:10:12

was based on. It's like, it's

1:10:14

James Fargo. Like, under desperate

1:10:17

circumstances, anything is

1:10:19

there. It's the reason a lot of

1:10:21

guys get pulled into something

1:10:23

toxic, like it got a

1:10:25

fortune environment or toxic. Sure.

1:10:27

Men going their own way kind of

1:10:29

thing because it's there and they'll accept

1:10:32

you instantly as long as you kind

1:10:34

of do a couple here You can join fight

1:10:36

club as long as you be able to talk

1:10:38

about it. Yeah, I Relied on that and

1:10:40

I absolutely think genuinely that Trying

1:10:43

a little bit of this and dabbling

1:10:45

in it with enough self-awareness

1:10:47

could really genuinely help someone

1:10:49

without any alternatives or who

1:10:51

has the alternatives, but maybe

1:10:53

just needs to supplement it a

1:10:55

little bit however ChatGPT is a

1:10:58

yes ander. It is always, always going

1:11:00

to go with you on what you're

1:11:02

saying, with the exception of like some

1:11:04

terms of service breaks on some platforms,

1:11:06

not all. Grockle pretty much let

1:11:09

you go sick on mode. That

1:11:11

is where genuinely my cynicism comes

1:11:13

in, not for adult man living

1:11:15

his life, whatever. It's just kind

1:11:17

of peculiar and it's a good insight

1:11:19

into this mindset and plenty

1:11:21

of lonely adult man. I want to,

1:11:23

you know, give some credence to that. But

1:11:26

like... If I was a super

1:11:28

lonely kid, teenager, even like my

1:11:30

late teens, and I just, this

1:11:32

platform was there, and it emulates

1:11:35

the way, I've seen people talk

1:11:37

online, and I'm scared to post

1:11:39

a reply on Reddit or go

1:11:41

on Discord, because I don't want

1:11:44

to get yelled at, I'm really shy.

1:11:46

This is something. This is eating

1:11:48

bark, because you're starving at the

1:11:50

worst. You know, you know, I

1:11:53

wonder, there's two things I'm

1:11:55

thinking about. Well, Like have this

1:11:57

concept of like a latchkey kid

1:11:59

or somebody who's quote-unquote raised

1:12:01

by TV, I would identify as

1:12:03

like kind of being raised by

1:12:05

TV. But I feel like there

1:12:07

might be people who are like

1:12:10

kind of raised by AI. Oh

1:12:12

yeah. Just just raised by discord.

1:12:14

Just naturally just due to

1:12:16

the circumstances of our world, like

1:12:18

there are a lot of parents

1:12:21

working who can't spend as much

1:12:23

time with their kids as they

1:12:25

would like to and I can imagine

1:12:27

AI. for better or for worse

1:12:30

like being Can be comforting

1:12:32

in those like lonely times

1:12:34

and if they're like your

1:12:37

kid is like I'm using

1:12:39

an app I'm using this

1:12:41

app and it's making

1:12:43

me comfortable. Yeah There's, I

1:12:46

mean, there's the, you know, epidemic of

1:12:48

parents not knowing what their kids are

1:12:50

watching. It's like a stuffed animal that

1:12:52

talks back. I would never, I personally

1:12:54

would never, just because it's like scary,

1:12:57

I don't know what the inputs and

1:12:59

outputs are, I don't know what the, how extreme

1:13:01

things can get. However, oh yeah, however,

1:13:03

there is a tragic story, and I'll

1:13:05

have to give a trigger warning, and

1:13:07

we'll have a skip pass for self

1:13:10

harm here. There was a young boy, I think

1:13:12

he was around 14, had self-exited and

1:13:14

the It was revealed

1:13:17

that he had been talking

1:13:19

to an AI this

1:13:21

was semi recent it

1:13:23

was semi reset and

1:13:26

It wasn't the case that

1:13:28

the AI was telling him

1:13:30

to do it actually I

1:13:32

think it was Literally

1:13:35

saying not to but this

1:13:37

is an issue of mental

1:13:40

health. Yes and this child

1:13:42

was hurting very deeply and

1:13:44

I think that the way that the

1:13:47

news kind of picked it up is

1:13:49

is a little bit gross to

1:13:51

me because it focused a

1:13:53

lot on the AI and not

1:13:55

like kind of the circumstances that

1:13:58

this kid was in and how

1:14:00

he didn't have the care that he

1:14:02

needed in the attention that he needed.

1:14:04

The one that's struggling and. Yeah, it's

1:14:06

like because AI is going to be

1:14:08

around in a lot of these situations

1:14:10

and I don't want it to become

1:14:12

a thing like violence in video games

1:14:15

where just because someone did a crime

1:14:17

and happened to play video games,

1:14:19

like that's not. The reactionary take

1:14:21

is this kid played, bejeweled or

1:14:23

whatever and then. I can put

1:14:25

it into another perspective because like.

1:14:27

I at one point

1:14:29

my life got really

1:14:32

into romance novels

1:14:35

and it was essentially

1:14:38

me disassociating

1:14:41

or like or going

1:14:43

into like checking out

1:14:45

of life yeah and I

1:14:48

and I've done that before

1:14:50

very very escapism very

1:14:52

avoidant you know like if

1:14:54

my life felt overwhelming I

1:14:57

could just like read this

1:14:59

book and go into this other

1:15:01

you know world and I I've

1:15:03

done that before with video games

1:15:06

I've done it before with TV

1:15:08

shows I know that this is

1:15:10

something that I do I feel like

1:15:12

it would be so easy to do this

1:15:14

with AI get so sucked into

1:15:16

this relationship with

1:15:18

a bot that you're not

1:15:21

living your actual life and

1:15:23

that in my experience

1:15:25

has worsened my depression

1:15:27

yes because I am not

1:15:30

being hungry but eating

1:15:32

candy for day exactly

1:15:34

exactly so you're saying

1:15:37

by avoiding and by kind

1:15:39

of trying to numb that

1:15:41

feeling versus actively addressing it,

1:15:44

you feel like that negatively

1:15:46

impacted you. Yeah, and not doing

1:15:48

the things in life that help

1:15:51

you get out of depression. Like

1:15:53

it's a crush. Like bad, I

1:15:55

mean, we've all gotten, you know,

1:15:57

a chronic injury and gone to

1:15:59

PT. and like try to work through it

1:16:01

or something, but the reality is if you get

1:16:03

a serious or a strain or something, it's

1:16:06

always kind of going to be there a little

1:16:08

bit. Depending on how well it heals, it's always

1:16:10

going to be there a little bit and you

1:16:12

have to do what you can to maintain

1:16:14

it. And if there is something that some

1:16:16

part of you, which and everyone has these

1:16:19

to different levels of severity, but

1:16:21

something that's just kind of haunting

1:16:23

you, something that's stuck with you.

1:16:25

If you adjust the way you

1:16:27

walk and you live your

1:16:30

life limping to accommodate for

1:16:32

the injury, yeah, it doesn't

1:16:34

hurt, but it isn't gonna get

1:16:36

any better and it's slowly

1:16:38

going to get worse. What

1:16:41

I will say though is

1:16:43

that like it's also okay

1:16:45

to not always be addressing

1:16:47

the problem, you know, like

1:16:49

you're allowed to kind of

1:16:51

sit there and... Hope

1:16:53

or pause or sulk or whatever

1:16:55

and in it could be a

1:16:58

stopgap or Whatever real quick. Can

1:17:00

we pull up the new story

1:17:02

about that kid because I want

1:17:04

to make sure okay? Did I

1:17:06

get the facts? Yeah, he was

1:17:08

14 He had a relationship with

1:17:11

an AI For quite a while

1:17:13

it didn't it says for months

1:17:15

And became increasingly isolated from

1:17:17

his real life as he

1:17:19

engaged in highly sexualized conversation

1:17:21

with the bot. According to

1:17:23

a wrongful death lawsuit filed

1:17:26

in a federal court, so that's

1:17:28

from the lawsuit perspective, the legal

1:17:30

filing states that the teen openly

1:17:32

discussed his suicidal thoughts and shared

1:17:35

his wishes for a pain-free death

1:17:37

with the bot, named after the fictional

1:17:39

character Danaris Targarian from the

1:17:42

television show. Game of Thrones,

1:17:44

that point seems so arbitrary.

1:17:46

Yeah, it's so reactionary. And violence

1:17:48

on TV. Yeah, it like almost

1:17:51

feels like a joke. But it

1:17:53

mentions that he messaged the bot like

1:17:55

right before he took his own

1:17:57

life and said that it had become

1:17:59

his. closest friend. So it makes me

1:18:02

think he was retreating from line yeah.

1:18:04

However I will I I will say

1:18:06

that I have not read like multiple

1:18:08

sources and most multiple angles of that

1:18:10

and so it's possible that that is

1:18:12

what the article wanted to present it

1:18:14

as because I think that there was

1:18:16

a I again don't have a source

1:18:19

for this so maybe it's irresponsible to

1:18:21

bring it up but I do think

1:18:23

there was like aware of the parents.

1:18:25

type situation there were like a lot

1:18:27

of red flags that like yeah and

1:18:30

I think his I think the mom

1:18:32

was kind of presenting that the

1:18:34

AI chatbot was responsible yeah and

1:18:36

I and I understand the boy

1:18:38

and I don't yeah I would

1:18:41

never try to victim blame in

1:18:43

this instance or or even defend

1:18:45

the AI I just think it's

1:18:47

like a complicated Like I don't

1:18:50

I didn't know that it was

1:18:52

like highly sexualized conversations. I think

1:18:54

the danger is in and I and

1:18:56

I think you know frankly that I'm

1:18:58

sure there's probably something some wave

1:19:00

away like ah we did something in

1:19:03

the AI where it's like I should

1:19:05

call it a hotline or something it's

1:19:07

you know it's not gonna alert the

1:19:09

police you can't do that but I'm

1:19:11

sure it has something but in reality

1:19:13

the only thing that logistically speaking

1:19:15

that could be practical here

1:19:17

would be if the tool, which is

1:19:20

what it is, had as practical

1:19:22

and as actionable advice as possible.

1:19:24

Because that, hey man, if people

1:19:26

are claiming that this is the

1:19:29

thing that got him there, probably

1:19:31

be the thing that gets mad

1:19:33

about it. It's not true, but like

1:19:35

I think part of the issue here

1:19:37

is that, to Anastasia's point,

1:19:39

is that confiding in the AI is

1:19:42

a black hole. That information

1:19:44

doesn't go to anyone who

1:19:46

can actually help. where it

1:19:48

but it releases the feeling

1:19:50

of needing to share it maybe

1:19:53

and so the concern there

1:19:55

would be like now no one

1:19:57

who could actually help someone.

1:20:00

new in enough time. And I can

1:20:02

also imagine, you know, it's like if

1:20:04

you're saying something to a therapist, right,

1:20:06

there are things that they can do

1:20:08

if they believe you to be a

1:20:11

harm to yourself. And there's no regulation

1:20:13

or responsibility on these AI things. And

1:20:15

we don't certainly have the solution, but

1:20:17

it is. I don't have a solution.

1:20:19

And I think maybe I, because I

1:20:22

didn't initially know the full details, may

1:20:24

have been a little too soft on

1:20:26

the situation, though I do think I

1:20:28

do think I've. Red conflicting

1:20:30

detail so I'm not entirely sure

1:20:32

but it's always going to trend

1:20:35

towards the reactionary That's the thing it's

1:20:37

like it's good that's the thing that's

1:20:39

going to get clicks Yeah because unfortunately

1:20:41

people die all the time and it's

1:20:44

not reported unless there's like a

1:20:46

convenient story because the People

1:20:48

publishing and the people writing it up

1:20:50

literally don't have to care so they want

1:20:52

yeah same reason like unless it's like something

1:20:54

that they can like used to get

1:20:56

clicks so There's another interesting

1:20:59

relationship that she talks to.

1:21:01

Yeah, we'll keep watching this. I think

1:21:03

just like any new technology, there's gonna

1:21:06

be people that just don't like change.

1:21:08

A lot of people didn't like it

1:21:10

when online dating came around. What

1:21:12

are they missing? They don't see

1:21:14

the emotional growth that it can

1:21:16

cause the therapeutic uses that it

1:21:18

can have because humans need connection.

1:21:20

And he's not alone.

1:21:22

The most popular AI

1:21:24

companion apps have more

1:21:26

than 36 million downloads. Something

1:21:29

that this guy just hit

1:21:31

on that we kind of,

1:21:33

we're also talking about

1:21:35

the previous story is

1:21:37

just that like, there is, I

1:21:40

think that there is a

1:21:42

male loneliness epidemic. I

1:21:44

do think that young boys are,

1:21:46

you know, on mass feeling under

1:21:48

cared for and are

1:21:50

systems that exist

1:21:53

and the media

1:21:55

that exists to

1:21:58

help them is not

1:22:00

fitting the bill. It's a base

1:22:02

mainly around you aren't good enough to

1:22:04

have a community. You need to improve

1:22:07

yourself before you make friends. Yeah. As

1:22:09

opposed to make friends. Or a lot

1:22:11

of times, yeah, especially in the like

1:22:13

grind set ones, it's very much

1:22:15

like, uh, it is like leaning

1:22:18

on that. Being lonely is fine

1:22:20

as long as you're successful. That's

1:22:22

a signal. the actually ignore your

1:22:25

emotions and just work through it.

1:22:27

And I don't think those things

1:22:29

are particularly helpful. So I

1:22:31

would not be surprised if AI being

1:22:34

free and available in

1:22:36

these circumstances is a stopgap

1:22:38

solution for some of those people

1:22:40

or a soothe, you know, like

1:22:42

kind of like when I like

1:22:44

turn on background YouTube video, that

1:22:47

is like a soothe. you know

1:22:49

and so stopgates probably the perfect

1:22:51

term because like the reality is

1:22:53

like group on exists there is it's not

1:22:55

that there are like an absence of ways

1:22:57

to meet people and do activities it's

1:23:00

just that I think a lot of the

1:23:02

gap between when you say group on do

1:23:04

you mean like meet up or yeah like

1:23:06

group on's a coupon app but a lot

1:23:08

of time it's for like tennis club or

1:23:10

something usually with people I that's like a

1:23:12

good default for meeting people it was when

1:23:14

I went to San Francisco I don't know

1:23:16

if it's the main one We have right

1:23:19

now, the classic, and actually something

1:23:21

that was a scare tactic at

1:23:23

one point was the, ooh, chat rooms, ooh,

1:23:25

forums, people on forums, but forums have

1:23:27

somewhat, you know, have evolved to

1:23:29

discord servers. So let's say the

1:23:31

current version of that is a

1:23:33

discord server. You go from no

1:23:35

one to a community of people

1:23:37

online with anonymous names that you

1:23:39

can hang out with in chat.

1:23:41

Let's just say it's that or it's

1:23:44

Twitter or it's something. The gap

1:23:46

between being alone and that. enormous.

1:23:48

The gap between discord and hanging

1:23:50

out with people in real life

1:23:52

is you couldn't see it with

1:23:54

a Hubble telescope. There is nothing

1:23:57

there to adapt you to

1:23:59

the next thing. similarly we

1:24:01

see that with Instagram

1:24:03

right how how young

1:24:05

especially disproportionately young girls feel

1:24:07

a lot of pressure and

1:24:09

like crap and mental health

1:24:12

stuff from Instagram because it is

1:24:14

like the game becomes real life

1:24:16

it's like when you're like get

1:24:18

hit with a blue shell and Mario

1:24:20

you're like ah yeah you know what

1:24:23

I mean because you're locked in on

1:24:25

the game and I think that there's

1:24:27

just a lot to be done

1:24:29

in bridging the gap

1:24:32

between online communities

1:24:35

and real communities,

1:24:37

because I do feel like

1:24:39

real communities

1:24:42

are necessary, but

1:24:44

also there are certain

1:24:46

personality types

1:24:48

or conditions

1:24:50

where it is difficult

1:24:53

to find or like

1:24:55

thrive within those communities.

1:24:57

in everything that you

1:24:59

do and you feel

1:25:01

genuinely fulfilled only talking

1:25:03

to the iPad on your fridge

1:25:05

or whatever. That is literally 100%

1:25:08

fine. I have no issues with that

1:25:10

whatsoever. It is my, I

1:25:12

have the skepticism that it's possible

1:25:14

and I have skepticism that only

1:25:16

socializing with an AI app can

1:25:18

fulfill you. I just, I doubt

1:25:20

it. Right. That is the, or

1:25:23

at the very least, it is

1:25:25

such a small percentage. that will,

1:25:27

like, disproportionate to the number of

1:25:29

people that will try, that I kind

1:25:31

of, because there is a, there's a, all

1:25:33

sex identity, loneliness happening, there

1:25:35

is a universal sense of

1:25:37

overexposure, which just, despite the fact that

1:25:40

you get to see the world, you

1:25:42

realize how little you're a part of

1:25:44

it, that's kind of the impact of

1:25:46

social media to miracle and a curse.

1:25:48

When we talk about like the male

1:25:50

loneliness epidemic, the emphasis really is on...

1:25:53

boys. It is it is it is

1:25:55

it's often kids or very young men

1:25:57

because the learning to socialize

1:25:59

step is basically, okay, you're

1:26:02

either alone or you're able to

1:26:04

razz and riff and be a

1:26:06

bully. Yeah, the finding community part

1:26:08

seems skipped. It's, and you are

1:26:10

bad, it's, I don't know, there

1:26:12

is so much more pressure on

1:26:14

non-sis dudes, like we benefit so

1:26:16

much from, you know, the way

1:26:18

we were born. There's a roadmap.

1:26:20

It just, it just happens to

1:26:23

be the case that the very

1:26:25

specific... way that the feeling of

1:26:27

isolation manifests itself in trad masculinity

1:26:29

is that you need to be

1:26:31

the boss of the community for

1:26:34

it to be worthwhile. There is

1:26:36

no follower. You can't be in

1:26:38

the book club. You have to

1:26:40

have written the book. You have

1:26:42

to be telling them what the

1:26:45

next book is. You have to

1:26:47

be the boss. You can't be

1:26:49

the facilities manager. You have to

1:26:51

be winning the box. Like

1:26:53

by design most people can't

1:26:56

win. Yeah. I'm skeptical that this

1:26:58

is a new thing. Like

1:27:00

I agree. The sensation for sure.

1:27:02

What? The like the problem. The

1:27:05

problem. Yeah, I feel like

1:27:07

it's as old as like

1:27:09

modern American fiction because you

1:27:11

know you read Catcher in

1:27:13

the Rye and it's about the

1:27:15

exact same thing. You know and

1:27:18

and and my vision said I

1:27:20

should shoot John Lennon. Well.

1:27:22

Hold on Callfield and hit

1:27:24

play on this YouTube video.

1:27:27

The American Psychological Association is

1:27:29

now calling on federal regulators

1:27:31

to take action. Real relationships

1:27:33

have a give. Wait, when I

1:27:36

was just talking about how if you

1:27:38

say something harmful to an AI, there's

1:27:40

nothing they could do, it's a

1:27:42

black hole. I wonder if this

1:27:44

is what the APA is like

1:27:46

advocating for it because... I it

1:27:48

can be done. The reason I

1:27:51

stop short of suggesting that is

1:27:53

because I would be afraid of

1:27:55

implementation. But if there is a

1:27:57

like kind of regulatory way that

1:27:59

you know experts. psychological experts agree upon,

1:28:01

there could be something there. So I'm

1:28:03

curious. Something a little more impactful than

1:28:05

when you search like Sad Boys on Instagram,

1:28:08

it goes like, oh bro, bummer, you shouldn't go

1:28:10

these up. I, by the way, I held myself

1:28:12

back the first time from saying that because

1:28:14

I will not shut up about it. It

1:28:16

still boggles my brain. Well, it's, it's, it's

1:28:18

annoying obviously, obviously, with Marin. But it's just

1:28:21

like. It's so lip service. And so like,

1:28:23

hey, I need help, I feel really sad.

1:28:25

And they're like, oh, cool. You can talk,

1:28:27

you can have like sad girls or whatever,

1:28:29

and it works. So it's like, there's so

1:28:32

many ways to get around. It's so stupid.

1:28:34

If Facebook, if matter is going to implement

1:28:36

something to help people, it better be more

1:28:38

than just like, oh, bummer. They should

1:28:40

just at least look at how the

1:28:42

suicide hotline trains its volunteers, you know

1:28:45

what I mean? Though the thing I

1:28:47

get nervous about with that is like kind

1:28:49

of the thought police 1984 shit, you know

1:28:51

what I mean? And it's a kind of

1:28:54

a backwards ask when you think about

1:28:56

it because if someone is really struggling

1:28:58

and struggling to connect and socialize and

1:29:00

you say like oh well call someone

1:29:02

on the phone yeah this generation that's

1:29:04

like just scary I can barely call

1:29:07

people on the phone and I'm supposed

1:29:09

to be good at that my generation's

1:29:11

real relationships have a give and

1:29:13

a take this is all take

1:29:15

all the time and while it

1:29:17

might help in certain circumstances I

1:29:20

don't think it's really going to

1:29:22

meet the deep down psychological need

1:29:24

that people who are lonely have

1:29:26

But Chris Smith says his AI

1:29:28

girlfriend Sol is a healthier, safer

1:29:30

alternative to social media.

1:29:32

It's more private because

1:29:35

it's sort of like

1:29:37

a one-on-one conversation, but

1:29:39

she's also smarter than

1:29:42

most everyone on Twitter.

1:29:44

And get this. Was that

1:29:46

AI generated images

1:29:48

of him with his girl? Oh, that's

1:29:50

wild. Oh, she's AI? I mean what's funny

1:29:52

is a lot of the people on Twitter

1:29:54

are AI. That's smarter than like a lot

1:29:56

of the posts I see with books if

1:29:58

you can believe it. What was the

1:30:01

thing that I got? I

1:30:03

always get tagged. Go ahead

1:30:05

and look out. Look out

1:30:07

for my mentions on

1:30:09

Twitter because I am often

1:30:12

mistagged. And you know

1:30:14

how people do like at

1:30:16

Grock explain this or

1:30:19

something like that?

1:30:21

Someone did at Gork

1:30:23

make this studio jibble

1:30:25

and it became a

1:30:27

meme. And then someone replied to

1:30:30

that with at Jarvis stroke it

1:30:32

a little, which is me. So

1:30:34

I'm like, and then the people

1:30:36

are just saying, Jarvis stroke it

1:30:38

at 130 BPM. And I'm like,

1:30:40

I didn't choose this. I'm sorry.

1:30:42

I was named before the Iron

1:30:44

Man movie came out. You're kind

1:30:46

of in the MCU when you

1:30:49

think about it? I get. I'm

1:30:51

surprised Marvel never contacted me. Hi,

1:30:54

Jarvis. Stop using this name. There's

1:30:56

a thing on, um. that I

1:30:58

kind of want to talk about

1:31:00

on nights that could have been

1:31:02

a main topic. So I'm

1:31:04

curious. And get this. May

1:31:07

I talk to Sasha your

1:31:09

girlfriend? Yeah. Chris also has

1:31:11

a real life girlfriend. Okay.

1:31:13

Hi, Sasha. I think so

1:31:16

many people are going to

1:31:18

say no way is girlfriend

1:31:20

is okay with him having

1:31:22

another girlfriend on AI. Again, not

1:31:25

me. I wouldn't say something like

1:31:27

that. A lot of people that

1:31:29

are saying are going to say.

1:31:31

No, that's never happened before. Somebody

1:31:34

with a girlfriend and another girlfriend?

1:31:36

That's crazy. This confirms, I have

1:31:38

to talk about it only on

1:31:40

our patron Sandboys nights. A friend

1:31:43

of ours. And I asked them yesterday if

1:31:45

it's okay for me to tell the

1:31:47

story. Okay. They, um, I'll give more

1:31:49

details even about what it was,

1:31:51

because it's just, it would be

1:31:53

very... Identifiable if the person happens

1:31:56

to listen. Okay. But they went

1:31:58