0:02

For those of you looking to

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deepen your understanding of love and

0:06

healthy partnership, I am launching a

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live course as a companion to

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Letters to Venus. This cause is

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an opportunity to go deeper, guided

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by experts and supported by a

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like-minded community. So whether you're out

0:20

there seeking a partner and you're

0:22

tired of dating the same person

0:25

in different forms, or if you're

0:27

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in your current relationship, Or if

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you just feel like you've got

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if you would

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like to join

1:08

head to the

1:11

show note or

1:13

visit satin returns.co.uk

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to sign up.

1:19

relationships and dating.

1:21

This is letters

1:24

to Venus. Venus

1:27

is the goddess

1:30

of love, the

1:32

celestial muse of beauty,

1:35

desire and connection. She

1:37

teaches us that love

1:39

is not just something

1:42

we seek, it is something

1:44

we embody. Hello

1:51

everyone and welcome back to

1:53

Letters to Venus our new

1:55

spin-off show from Saturn Returns

1:57

centered around love relationships and

1:59

all things to do with

2:01

matters of the heart. Today

2:03

I am thrilled to sit down

2:06

with one of my favorite thought

2:08

leaders in this space and that

2:10

is Jillian Tureki. Jillian has

2:12

recently released her new book,

2:14

It Begins with You, and

2:16

she has an incredible podcast,

2:19

Jillian on Love, and she

2:21

has just kind of taken

2:23

the world by storm recently

2:25

with her no-nonsense relationship advice.

2:27

She has amassed millions of

2:29

followers online and I absolutely

2:31

was thrilled to sit down

2:33

with her and she did

2:35

not disappoint. I feel like

2:37

the way she approaches relationships

2:39

is so refreshing. It makes

2:41

you feel very seen

2:44

and understood in whatever

2:46

you're navigating without judgment,

2:49

which I think is

2:52

so important in this

2:54

space. So I'll let

2:57

you guys dive in, but

2:59

please enjoy this episode, and

3:02

I hope it helps you

3:04

in whatever you are going

3:06

through right now. We land

3:09

on Ishtar who had a

3:11

lot in common with Shukra

3:13

in Vedic astrology as we

3:15

mentioned earlier and therefore also

3:18

parts of Tantra. So Ishtar

3:20

was the ancient Mesopotamian goddess

3:22

who embodies both love and war.

3:25

Ishtar represents therefore the duality of

3:27

Venus's energy, an energy that all

3:29

women naturally embody just by walking

3:32

down the grocery shop. Her power

3:34

to both attract and conquer. as

3:36

a duality that she represents. She

3:38

teaches us that love and conflict

3:41

are two sides of the same

3:43

coin. So by embracing this each-star energy,

3:45

by embodying it authentically, which just

3:48

means as a woman embodying yourself,

3:50

it means that you're finding strength

3:52

in your passions and fighting for

3:55

what you love. It's about channeling

3:57

your inner warrior to protect your

3:59

values. and relationships. So this

4:01

will involve having to somewhat

4:04

strike the balance between setting

4:06

boundaries and knowing when to

4:09

compromise as depicted by one

4:11

of the Venusian science libra.

4:14

Venus as both the morning

4:16

star and the evening

4:18

star symbolizes new beginnings

4:20

and reflection. When we see her

4:22

as a morning star, she represents the

4:24

promise of a new day and the

4:27

pursuit of our desires. When we see

4:29

her as an evening star, she embodies

4:31

satisfaction and the appreciation of beauty and

4:34

the love we've cultivated. So these dual

4:36

aspects of Venus remind us of the

4:38

moon and its cyclical nature of life

4:41

and love, moon and Venus both being

4:43

the representatives in our charts of our

4:45

femininity. Thank

4:51

you so so much for joining

4:53

me. I am so excited to

4:55

meet you. I'm a massive fan

4:58

of your work. Oh, thank you

5:00

so much. You've just like exploded.

5:02

How does it feel? It feels

5:04

really good to have worked as

5:07

hard as I have, especially on

5:09

the book, and for people to

5:11

be receiving it so well. That

5:13

feels really good. Hard work. When

5:15

hard work gets sort of when

5:18

people... like what you work so

5:20

hard on and resonate with it, that

5:22

feels good, for sure. And I'm sure

5:24

you're tired of telling the story, but

5:27

for the thousandth time I'm going to

5:29

ask you again to share a little

5:31

bit about how you got into

5:33

the work that you're doing now.

5:35

And because I know you're very

5:37

open about your personal story and

5:39

I, yeah, very touched by that.

5:41

So I'd love for you to

5:44

share. You know, it all started.

5:46

22 years ago, or a little

5:48

bit now, longer, but I, God,

5:50

I said 22 years

5:53

ago, that's crazy.

5:55

No, 26 years ago.

5:57

And I found yoga.

6:00

the physical practice

6:02

of yoga. And I was obsessed

6:04

with it and it was a

6:07

calling for me to teach it.

6:09

So I started to teach it

6:11

about 23 years ago. And so

6:13

I was always very,

6:15

very curious about the

6:18

mind body connection.

6:20

I don't even think it's

6:22

a connection. I think the

6:24

mind and the body is

6:27

one. And I

6:29

loved helping people deepen

6:31

and strengthen and heal their

6:34

relationship with themselves through

6:36

the practice of yoga.

6:38

And then I started

6:40

to work with people with

6:42

certain injuries, certain trauma,

6:44

I worked with couples, and

6:46

I realized that there is

6:49

a really, there is a

6:51

connection between how a

6:53

person feels emotionally and

6:55

what happens in their

6:57

bodies. So helping people

6:59

heal themselves and helping people

7:01

feel better about themselves is

7:04

something that I've been doing

7:06

for 23 years. And so,

7:08

and then I also noticed

7:10

that when I would work

7:13

with couples, that their relationship,

7:16

they would tell me

7:18

that their relationship got

7:20

better, stronger, fortified,

7:22

because they were practicing yoga

7:24

specifically together. as an

7:26

activity that they did

7:28

together. So as this was happening,

7:31

I love teaching yoga, but I would

7:33

say about seven years into teaching it,

7:35

I felt a little bored, and I

7:38

felt like there, I didn't know where

7:40

this was gonna go, because the

7:42

ceiling's pretty low back then. There

7:44

was no social media. There was

7:46

no like, oh, let me teach

7:48

this on Instagram or YouTube and

7:50

build a career around that. Like

7:52

that was not an option. So

7:54

the options were. Just keep teaching

7:56

or own a studio. And so

7:58

these are things. that I didn't want

8:01

to do and I also wanted to

8:03

get married and have children and go

8:05

down that route. So I always had

8:07

this sort of inner conflict of

8:09

not knowing what my potential was

8:11

and then also wanting to like settle

8:14

down and get married and have kids.

8:16

So I met the man who would

8:18

become my husband and then my ex-husband

8:20

and I always say that our

8:23

relationship before we got married was

8:25

90% great and 10% extremely problematic.

8:28

you could say in one

8:30

could have an argument that

8:32

says well 10% that's actually

8:34

a pretty good as a

8:36

pretty good percentage but that

8:39

10% was extremely profound and

8:41

really a problem so that

8:43

what we got married the

8:45

10% became the 90% got

8:47

magnified and the 90%

8:49

became the 10% and we were

8:51

two people who did not know

8:54

how to it was it was

8:56

the classic trauma bond. I accepted

8:58

things that I never should have

9:00

accepted. I also didn't know

9:02

how to communicate, so it

9:05

was very painful. And the

9:07

way that he ended the relationship

9:09

was very tragic. He broke

9:11

up with me via text

9:13

on the morning that I

9:15

was having a miscarriage. And

9:18

in the midst of this,

9:20

my mom had been given

9:22

a couple of months. to

9:24

live because you had terminal

9:26

cancer. So abandonment doesn't

9:29

even like scratch the

9:31

surface of what I was

9:34

feeling and what was

9:36

happening. And he never came

9:38

home. So that day

9:40

marked the day where

9:42

my life completely unraveled

9:44

and fell apart and

9:46

I entered a very

9:48

painful dark night of the

9:51

soul. And the thing that we

9:53

don't really know about the dark night

9:55

of the soul is, so there's a

9:57

couple of things. One is, it's extremely

9:59

depressing. And it's extremely

10:01

hard and it is a bottom.

10:04

But it's also a period of

10:06

time in a person's life where

10:09

they really get in touch with

10:11

their creativity. And a lot of

10:13

people in their dark night

10:16

of the soul find purpose

10:18

and meaning. And that's what

10:20

I did. And I became

10:22

obsessed with two things. One,

10:24

how do I get myself

10:26

out of this hole? Because

10:28

it was terrifying. this emotional

10:31

hole, this catish, you know,

10:33

my mom dying and losing

10:35

certainty and how am I

10:37

going to support myself

10:39

and, you know, am I ever

10:41

going to have children, that kind

10:44

of thing. And then I

10:46

became obsessed with what makes

10:48

a relationship work and drive,

10:50

like absolutely obsessed

10:52

because I was shocked that I

10:55

was in this position. And

10:57

so I... I was just a woman

10:59

on a mission trying to

11:01

figure it out. And I was

11:04

lucky enough to stumble

11:06

upon mentors and people

11:08

who really helped me.

11:10

And I figured out

11:12

how to create meaning out

11:14

of the mess that I

11:17

was in. And then I

11:19

thought, you know what? This

11:21

is my calling. I have

11:23

to help people in their

11:25

relationships. And so I. got

11:28

certified, hired mentors

11:31

that I have still to

11:33

this day, 10 years, almost

11:35

11 years later, and

11:37

started coaching and haven't

11:39

stopped since. Wow. Thank

11:41

you for sharing that.

11:43

I'm curious to know, did

11:46

you, after that horrific

11:48

day, which you've also

11:50

written about in the

11:52

book, did you ever speak to

11:54

your ex-husband again?

11:56

Yes, yes, so

11:59

he. You

12:01

know, it was very odd.

12:03

You would think not, but

12:05

we were actually very bonded.

12:07

And so he felt very

12:09

guilty and he was close

12:11

to my mom. He offered

12:13

a lot of financial support

12:15

for about a year. and

12:17

he felt so guilty he

12:19

bought me a new computer

12:21

enrolled me in this in

12:23

this coaching program so he

12:25

did these things and I

12:27

said you know I thought

12:29

screw it let me let

12:31

me take what I can

12:33

get you know I'll take

12:35

all the help I can

12:37

get and he owes me

12:39

and then and then so

12:41

so that that breakup happened

12:43

on that day but it

12:45

the untethering I would say

12:47

lasted about six months. And

12:49

then within inside of a

12:52

year, I found out that

12:54

he was having a baby

12:56

with someone. And so that

12:58

took me back a little

13:00

bit. And he's still with

13:02

her. And so then we

13:04

lived in the same neighborhood.

13:06

So then our conversations became

13:08

less and less. And yeah,

13:10

I would run into him

13:12

here and there. you know,

13:14

maybe he would get a

13:16

bill that was really for

13:18

me or vice versa. Hey,

13:20

did you get this, that

13:22

kind of communication. So it

13:24

was actually quite a, as

13:26

much as there was the

13:28

initial kind of traumatic ending,

13:30

it was something that went

13:32

on for a little bit.

13:34

Yeah, I mean, he left,

13:36

he wanted a divorce, I

13:38

didn't fight it. You know,

13:40

there wasn't, there wasn't fighting

13:42

that happened after that happened

13:44

after that really. There was

13:46

an arguing. Because the reason

13:48

I ask, there are so

13:50

many things that we could

13:52

discuss today and I feel

13:54

so well versed in the

13:56

landscape of relationships and reading

13:58

your book has been such

14:00

a joy having read many

14:02

in this area. the area

14:04

that I wanted to discuss

14:06

with you to begin with

14:08

at least anyway is is

14:10

breakups because they can have

14:12

this humongous lasting impact on

14:14

us and whilst there's a

14:16

lot of room for them

14:19

in terms of understanding of

14:21

heartbreak to a degree I

14:23

feel like we're not really

14:25

equipped with the emotional turmoil

14:27

that we go through as

14:29

a result what it brings

14:31

up in us. all our

14:33

insecurities, our sense of self-worth,

14:35

especially if it's in the

14:37

construct of a marriage and

14:39

a long-term relationship where you

14:41

have built a partnership and

14:43

a life with someone. And

14:45

it's the most painful place,

14:47

and I love what you

14:49

said at the beginning about

14:51

how your dark night of

14:53

the soul was a space

14:55

where you could then cultivate

14:57

purpose. But for those that

14:59

may be in the midst,

15:01

midst of that heartbreak. I'd

15:03

love for you to offer

15:05

them some insights, not only

15:07

from your personal experience, but

15:09

from the work that you

15:11

do as well. Sure. Well

15:13

first understand that we don't

15:15

talk about this enough, but

15:17

to your point, going through

15:19

a breakup, not all breakups

15:21

obviously are created equal, some

15:23

are much harder than others,

15:25

but there's so incredibly painful.

15:27

They're so painful. If you

15:29

are struggling, if this is

15:31

sort of new and you're

15:33

struggling to get out of

15:35

bed, if you're struggling to

15:37

eat, if you're struggling to

15:39

drink water, you're not alone.

15:41

This is, it's a very,

15:43

very difficult time. It is

15:46

grieving a death and it's

15:48

complicated by the fact that

15:50

the person is still alive.

15:52

So it's really confusing to

15:54

the human nervous system. to

15:56

go through the shock of

15:58

loss like that. knowing that

16:00

the person is going on

16:02

with their life and you're

16:04

supposed to go on with

16:06

yours. What I will say

16:08

is this too shall pass

16:10

and to get through the

16:12

acute stage, you probably need

16:14

to talk to someone. Like

16:16

a therapist? Yeah, it might

16:18

be very beneficial to speak

16:20

to a therapist to get

16:22

you through this time. You

16:24

need to lean on friends

16:26

and family because when you

16:28

lose a relationship, especially if

16:30

it was long term, you

16:32

lose a part of your

16:34

identity. And so part of

16:36

the shock and the pain

16:38

that is a breakup is

16:40

an identity crisis. And you

16:42

start to question who you

16:44

are, and you start to

16:46

feel very lost, right? That

16:48

feeling of loss, which is,

16:50

I think, a feeling that

16:52

every human being can relate

16:54

to, is that like by

16:56

definition is suffering. And so

16:58

when you lean on your

17:00

friends and your family and

17:02

you spend time with the

17:04

people who know you and

17:06

love you, you know, whoever

17:08

that is in community, you

17:10

are reminded of who you

17:13

are reminded of who you

17:15

are who you are And

17:17

you're reminded that you are

17:19

very much, you very much

17:21

have a self that is

17:23

absolutely separate from this relationship.

17:25

And being reminded of who

17:27

you are so essential. And

17:29

what I'll do is I'll

17:31

take it a step further

17:33

when you sort of transition

17:35

out of the very acute

17:37

stage of the inflammatory response

17:39

to pain, which is can't

17:41

get out of that kind

17:43

of thing. Part of what's

17:45

going to remind you of

17:47

your sense of self and

17:49

actually builds a stronger sense

17:51

of self is to give

17:53

back in some way. So,

17:55

and this is very important.

17:57

This could look like anything.

17:59

It could be your work.

18:01

It could be your children.

18:03

It could be volunteering somewhere.

18:05

It could be helping a

18:07

friend. It's super, super important.

18:09

It's what gives, this is

18:11

just a fact of life.

18:13

It's what gives our lives

18:15

meaning to actually give outside

18:17

of ourselves. And so. that

18:19

might take some brainstorming to

18:21

figure out, but you can

18:23

do it in small ways.

18:25

You can help a stranger

18:27

on the street. These things

18:29

reinforce sense of self, because

18:31

then we recognize that life

18:33

is so much larger than

18:35

our pain, life is so

18:37

much larger than our breakup,

18:40

and that there is a

18:42

reason and a purpose for

18:44

our existence. When we go

18:46

through a very devastating breakup,

18:48

we go through, like the

18:50

Dark Knight of the Soul,

18:52

is an existential crisis. It's

18:54

an existential process. And then,

18:56

like I said, we start

18:58

to question our identity, we

19:00

start to feel like we

19:02

are of this world, we

19:04

are in, we are living

19:06

in this world, but not

19:08

of it. We start to

19:10

feel very dissociate, we start

19:12

to sort of dissociate. What

19:14

anchors us back into our

19:16

bodies and on and onto

19:18

this earth is Realizing that

19:20

our existence has a purpose

19:22

and that is to help

19:24

others I love that because

19:26

I think we've all been

19:28

in that position where we

19:30

go through a breakup that

19:32

just completely knocks us and

19:34

it feels like you say

19:36

existential and it also feels

19:38

like no one else has

19:40

ever experienced this pain like

19:42

even when people like oh

19:44

I had a breaker and

19:46

there's a part of you

19:48

that's like like this. Yeah,

19:50

love like this. You haven't

19:52

felt the aching heart shattering.

19:54

You don't understand. This feels

19:56

like, yeah, we really think

19:58

it's such a good point.

20:00

We think we're all alone

20:02

in it. Yeah. And then

20:05

also, I found that that

20:07

particular piece around helping other

20:09

people interesting because there's a

20:11

necessary grief and acknowledgement of

20:13

that pain. But then there

20:15

also comes a point and

20:17

I speak from personal experience

20:19

where I've almost. played into

20:21

the victimhood of it and

20:23

I find it because especially

20:25

in in the context of

20:27

a relationship whether you're breaking

20:29

up or you're trying to

20:31

work it out to fall

20:33

into those patterns of the

20:35

sort of perpetrator in the

20:37

victim is so easy to

20:39

do especially in in the

20:41

demise. So do you have

20:43

any any take on that

20:45

because I can also see

20:47

not that there's ever a

20:49

perfect way to break up

20:51

with someone that alleviates pain.

20:53

But there's definitely better ways

20:55

or worse ways to do

20:57

it. And I think quite

20:59

often what happens is people

21:01

don't know how to deal

21:03

with the conflict or to

21:05

hold space for the person

21:07

that they're leaving. And so

21:09

they just do something like

21:11

send a text. Yes. You

21:13

know, but actually that then

21:15

leaves the other person in

21:17

the state of not being

21:19

able to fully process what's

21:21

happening because the... something so

21:23

insignificant has just shattered a

21:25

life. You know, and I

21:27

guess what I'm asking is,

21:29

can we leave well? Is

21:32

that possible? And secondly, in

21:34

the demise of a relationship,

21:36

how much accountability can we

21:38

take for how we talk

21:40

about the other person even

21:42

if they've left us? You

21:44

know, versus going into like

21:46

the victim hood, they're a

21:48

narcissist. there this, which gives

21:50

us a little bit of

21:52

a moment of like, I

21:54

feel a bit better. Yeah,

21:56

yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, there's

21:58

a lot here. So this

22:00

is important. Let's start with

22:02

the first one. What I

22:04

came to realize was that

22:06

the way that my ex-husband

22:08

broke up with me has

22:10

nothing to do with me

22:12

and everything to do with

22:14

him. And it's hard to

22:16

understand that in a moment,

22:18

but for anyone who's listening,

22:20

it's very important. He has

22:22

to live with that shame.

22:24

And shame is what he

22:26

did feel, and probably since

22:28

then he's repressed it so

22:30

much, but we all know

22:32

that everything we repressed, we

22:34

can't actually get rid of.

22:36

So he has to live

22:38

with that fact. I, on

22:40

the other hand, and healed

22:42

from that day. And I

22:44

don't have to live with

22:46

any shame. So when someone

22:48

goes to you or breaks

22:50

up with you without integrity,

22:52

it is really about their

22:54

fear and their problems and

22:56

their problems and their It

22:59

has nothing to do with

23:01

you. And so it is

23:03

a terrible thing to go

23:05

someone. And it's a terrible

23:07

thing to break up with

23:09

someone over text, unless you

23:11

had to, because it was

23:13

some sort of dangerous situation.

23:15

But let's just say it's

23:17

not. It's really best to

23:19

break up with someone in

23:21

person, and if you can't

23:23

do it in person, we

23:25

have technology, you can do

23:27

it over Zoom or Face

23:29

Time, you just don't do

23:31

it over text, you don't

23:33

flee a relationship unless you

23:35

are fleeing a dangerous situation.

23:37

When you do that, not

23:39

only is it a terrible

23:41

thing to do to someone

23:43

else, it's abandoning, but you

23:45

are going to hate yourself.

23:48

So yes, there are ways to

23:50

break up with people with integrity

23:52

doesn't mean it's going to be

23:55

uncomfortable Feelings are still going to

23:57

be hurt. It's still a breakup

23:59

But you really add fuel to

24:01

the fire when you do it

24:04

in a way that is disrespectful

24:06

and that doesn't honor the love

24:08

that you had. And I think

24:10

that that's really what it boils

24:12

down to. Hard to say that

24:15

when you barely know the person,

24:17

but when you love when you

24:19

have a love relationship, you want

24:21

to at least honor the love

24:24

that you had with the person.

24:26

Now the victim part. It's

24:29

important to feel like a

24:31

victim in the beginning when

24:33

someone who's betrayed you and

24:35

hurt you Especially if you've

24:37

been abused in any way,

24:39

especially if you've been broken

24:42

up with in the way

24:44

that I was broken up

24:46

with It's okay to feel

24:48

it's important to really feel

24:50

How wronged you were because

24:52

you need to know that

24:55

you Don't so that you

24:57

are more aware red flags

24:59

that are presented to you

25:01

earlier on in a relationship

25:03

The problem is staying in

25:05

that The problem is staying

25:08

feeling like a victim only

25:10

because that is going to

25:12

prevent you from moving on

25:14

and it's also going to

25:16

prevent you from expanding and

25:18

growing and learning some very

25:21

important lessons, such as maybe

25:23

I contributed to some of

25:25

the things that we're not

25:27

working. Maybe I have a

25:29

habit of choosing losers or

25:31

choosing, you know, seriously, or

25:33

choosing people who don't love

25:36

me in the way that

25:38

I love them. So we

25:40

have to take radical accountability.

25:42

for the decisions that we

25:44

make and for the relationships

25:46

that we have. And that

25:49

doesn't mean... it's your fault.

25:51

That doesn't, that could, it

25:53

could still mean that the

25:55

person that you were with

25:57

was highly dysfunctional and terrible.

25:59

But more times than not,

26:02

it takes two. And it

26:04

doesn't take away from, you

26:06

know, part of the processing

26:08

that I had to, to

26:10

undergo and go through was

26:12

understanding what was his part

26:15

was his part was his

26:17

part was his part was

26:19

his part was his part

26:21

was his part was his

26:23

and how I was wronged,

26:25

and also being able to

26:28

see where I contributed to

26:30

a scenario that wasn't working.

26:32

Two things can be true.

26:34

And that's part of the

26:36

processing. And it's very, very

26:38

important to not stay the

26:41

victim, because everyone deserves. a

26:43

new chance in love, and

26:45

it's very hard to have

26:47

that new chance in love

26:49

if you feel like the

26:51

victim. Yeah, and it's very

26:54

hard in relationship to hold

26:56

two truths, to you know,

26:58

because like when we get

27:00

latched on to... our own

27:02

and we are the victim

27:04

in that. It's impossible to

27:07

see that the other person

27:09

had that own experience. It's

27:11

much easier to just villainize

27:13

them. But like you say,

27:15

until we actually take accountability

27:17

for our own part, we

27:20

kind of become stagnant and

27:22

ruminate in this space that

27:24

inevitably means that then we

27:26

start creating these narratives that's

27:28

like, why do all men

27:30

cheat? You know, that's one

27:33

of the things you talk

27:35

about in your book or...

27:37

all the good ones are

27:39

gone or why do I

27:41

always attract unavailable people? And

27:43

it's becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy

27:46

that you are co-creating. Yes,

27:48

exactly. And let's take this

27:50

to a very extreme example.

27:52

Let's say you were in,

27:54

there was a domestic violence

27:56

case, you know, like there

27:59

you were abused, there was

28:01

violence. You are 100% a

28:03

victim of domestic violence, and

28:05

that's a horrible thing. Part

28:07

of the process, because I

28:09

was in a very abusive

28:11

relationship, which I outlined in

28:14

the book in my 20s,

28:16

late 20s, and ironically, it

28:18

came after one of the

28:20

most beautiful relationships I've ever

28:22

been in. I had to

28:24

really sit with this understanding

28:27

that what was done to

28:29

me was terrible and wrong

28:31

and horrible and that I

28:33

was a victim. And I

28:35

also had to do the

28:37

work to make sure that

28:40

I never got into a

28:42

relationship like that again. And

28:44

in order to do that,

28:46

I had to face some

28:48

hard truth. me and my

28:50

self-worth and my relationship with

28:53

my father and and the

28:55

and my willingness to ignore

28:57

my intuition which was very

28:59

strongly telling me to get

29:01

out. So even in the

29:03

most extreme cases we have

29:06

to make sure that we

29:08

don't get into that scenario

29:10

again, and that is going

29:12

to require looking inward. And

29:14

that's why the name of

29:16

the book, the title of

29:19

the book is it begins

29:21

with you. And with that

29:23

particular situation where you just

29:25

said that your intuition was

29:27

telling you something was wrong.

29:29

What did that look like

29:32

retrospectively? Like what were the

29:34

signals? You feel it very

29:36

deeply, you feel like your...

29:38

It's a very weird thing

29:40

to say, I've never said

29:42

this before, but it almost

29:45

feels like your soul is

29:47

being punched. Like you feel

29:49

it's so deeply in your

29:51

bones and you're just like

29:53

it's it's it's entirely physical

29:55

before it's mental. It's like

29:58

whoa That was so wrong

30:00

That was not good. And

30:02

I think the most confused

30:04

I know exactly what you

30:06

mean and the most confusing

30:08

thing about it is we

30:11

often feel like it's our

30:13

heart that's betraying our soul.

30:15

You know, there's this this

30:17

duality in us of really

30:19

wanting this thing, but also

30:21

on a visceral level knowing

30:24

that it's going to cause

30:26

us a huge amount of

30:28

pain. Yes. And that is

30:30

one of the hardest places

30:32

to be, but you know,

30:34

two varying degrees. I think

30:36

those experiences are kind of

30:39

crucial in the realms of

30:41

love because they allow us

30:43

to really know that our

30:45

bodies and our intuition have

30:47

our backs. Yes. Yes. And

30:49

it is so important to

30:52

exercise that muscle. For all

30:54

people, men have intuition too.

30:56

But since we're on the

30:58

topic of women and predatory

31:00

men, one of the problems

31:02

that's epidemic is those women

31:05

are not listening to their

31:07

intuition. Yeah. Do you come

31:09

across that a lot in

31:11

your work? And I come

31:13

across men not listening to

31:15

their intuition and their guts

31:18

when it comes to certain

31:20

things for sure. But yes,

31:22

I do. I absolutely do.

31:24

They are not, they're so

31:26

divorced from their bodies in

31:28

that way. And they're so,

31:31

because of various reasons, neurotic

31:33

and anxious that they're not,

31:35

that they're questioning themselves constantly.

31:37

And they have the ability

31:39

to really, it's just a

31:41

matter of just practicing listening

31:44

to that. Yeah, and I

31:46

think the longer. a situation

31:48

like that goes on and

31:50

people, you know, kind of

31:52

go on the path of

31:54

ignoring the intuition. They're looking

31:57

for logic and reason and

31:59

implying all of these things

32:01

on top of it. And

32:03

like you say, it creates

32:05

this neurotic behavior that just

32:07

makes someone feel not only

32:10

like, but they may end

32:12

up being betrayed by that

32:14

person, but that they've betrayed

32:16

themselves. Yes. And women really

32:18

need to, yes, totally. And

32:20

they need to kind of

32:23

get back in touch with

32:25

that. And that means slowing

32:27

down, that means movement, maybe

32:29

it means dancing. Like I

32:31

remember, I wish I remember

32:33

who the person was at

32:36

the podcast that I listened

32:38

to years ago, maybe eight

32:40

years ago, I listened to

32:42

a podcast and was either

32:44

a CIA agent or FBI

32:46

agent who was being interviewed.

32:49

And he was talking about

32:51

how. Um, women are one

32:53

of the reasons why women

32:55

are so much more likely

32:57

to be the victim of

32:59

an attack, a random attack

33:02

is because they'll have an

33:04

instinct about a predator. But

33:06

then they'll say, no, you

33:08

know, that's not nice, don't

33:10

be like that. you know

33:12

they're just down and out

33:14

or you know don't that's

33:17

not you know that whole

33:19

that whole thing be the

33:21

good girl be nice yeah

33:23

and that's you know don't

33:25

that's that's not that's not

33:27

that's not cool right and

33:30

I'll never forget you know

33:32

one of the lessons that

33:34

my mom taught me at

33:36

a young age and she

33:38

said never ignore when the

33:40

hairs if you're on the

33:43

back of your neck go

33:45

up if you're about to

33:47

get into an elevator and

33:49

and something feels off just

33:51

pay attention do not worry

33:53

do not go into well

33:56

you know that's sex or

33:58

racist or whatever it is.

34:00

Don't listen to any of

34:02

that. Just pay attention to

34:04

the hairs in the back

34:06

of your neck and don't

34:09

get into the elevator. And

34:11

she said, always listen to

34:13

that. Always pay attention. And

34:15

I think that's part of

34:17

what this agent was saying

34:19

is we get, you know,

34:22

when we sense danger. We

34:25

are animals. So there is

34:27

that like that hairs on

34:29

the back of the neck

34:31

is metaphorical But there's also

34:33

something quite literal about that

34:35

and you have to pay

34:37

attention to it and that's

34:39

in the relationship to relationships

34:41

Red flags is paying attention

34:43

to those signs that we

34:45

feel in our body Because

34:47

we've all had those experiences

34:50

for anyone listening that may

34:52

feel very disconnected from their

34:54

intuition or they're in a

34:56

long-term thing and they're questioning

34:58

it but they're kind of

35:00

they don't know what instincts

35:02

to follow. We've all had

35:04

those experiences whether it be

35:06

walking down the street and

35:08

someone just gives us a

35:10

feeling that's off and we

35:12

instinctively follow it but in

35:15

relationships we can often disregard

35:17

it for all the... reasons

35:19

we've discussed. And you know,

35:21

be it where we've invested

35:23

so much and we don't

35:25

want to lose love. And

35:27

then I guess the thing

35:29

becomes, is it when you're

35:31

trying to distinguish whether it's

35:33

a pattern and like a

35:35

trauma in you versus something

35:37

visceral and you being like,

35:39

no, this is just wrong.

35:42

And how does one like?

35:44

tune into that. So I

35:46

always think it's really impossible,

35:48

it's really important to follow

35:50

the body's wisdom, even if

35:52

it is past behaviors, patterns,

35:54

historical experiences, because you're listening

35:56

to yourself and you're doing

35:58

that self-inquiry. Yeah,

36:00

so it takes practice. Sometimes if

36:03

it's in a dating or relationship

36:05

scenario, have a conversation saying, you

36:07

know, this happened. I have a

36:09

concern about it or I had

36:11

a reaction to it where I'd

36:14

love to learn more about what

36:16

you said. Like, what did you

36:18

mean by that? And then a

36:20

lot's going to be revealed in

36:22

that conversation. Yeah. So that's one

36:25

thing that's very important. Which really

36:27

I can't stress the importance of

36:29

it enough because a lot of

36:31

people will either ignore their intuition

36:33

or get in their heads about

36:36

something and then create a whole

36:38

story about it. Just ask the

36:40

person. That's like this is so

36:42

obvious. Actually, you're not necessarily going

36:44

to get maybe the right answer,

36:47

but you'll get some sort of

36:49

information. Yeah, you'll get some information.

36:51

Yeah, I remember actually when I

36:53

went through a. bad breakup in

36:55

my late, actually was 30, I'd

36:58

just turn 30. I had this

37:00

feeling about this partner that like

37:02

there was something going on and

37:04

that he was messaging other women

37:06

and stuff and I just couldn't,

37:09

I couldn't shake it. Yeah. And

37:11

I remember asking him, but he

37:13

just like lied pretty well, that

37:15

I just still, even though I'd

37:17

asked him and I kept. getting

37:20

this feeling and I followed it

37:22

and I was right and it

37:24

was a big sign you know

37:26

it was a big lesson for

37:28

me and investigate these things within

37:31

reason I'm not suggesting that everyone

37:33

kind of goes through their partner's

37:35

phone or anything like that but

37:37

you have to you have to

37:39

listen you have to listen to

37:42

that you really do and the

37:44

other thing that I wanted to

37:46

kind of I feel like we've

37:48

naturally gone into this area, which

37:50

I, a part of your book,

37:53

which I just thought, oh my

37:55

God, I've needed someone to write

37:57

this, is to do with when

37:59

we're dating someone. one at the

38:01

early stages or we've met someone

38:04

let's say and the chemistry is

38:06

crazy but like we found the

38:08

one we're imagining what wedding dress

38:10

book and aware we've created this

38:12

whole future with them and we've

38:15

only you know met them one

38:17

time and then stuff just starts

38:19

kind of falling apart yeah but

38:21

we're already so invested mentally that

38:23

we're too far gone and you

38:26

give some beautiful examples of how

38:28

you know This happens to everyone,

38:30

happens to people that are super

38:32

successful, super beautiful, soon switched on,

38:34

super aware, and we can have

38:37

these blind spots in matters of

38:39

the heart because we equate chemistry

38:41

with compatibility. Or love. Or love.

38:43

Or love. And so I would

38:45

love for you to kind of

38:48

share your wisdom on this and

38:50

also the sort of the differences

38:52

between lust and love. Because I

38:54

think they're often kind of... Shoved

38:56

together. Yes, listen Passion is a

38:59

very important part of a romantic

39:01

relationship because without it you have

39:03

a friendship But when you first

39:05

meet someone and you're feeling all

39:07

of that you think I love

39:10

this person I can't live without

39:12

them when really what they're doing

39:14

is Simulating something inside of you

39:16

that's been dormant for a long

39:18

time and if you're desperate, which

39:21

a lot of people are and

39:23

I that's not I'm not putting

39:25

anyone to I've been desperate. What

39:27

do I mean by desperate? desperate

39:29

for closeness, desperate for love, feeling

39:32

lonely. And then they trigger something

39:34

inside of you. And then we

39:36

think, oh my God, everything is

39:38

amazing. And what we do, the

39:40

immaturity in us will then project

39:43

our ideal man or woman onto

39:45

this person. And we think this

39:47

is amazing, everything is amazing. And

39:49

the thing is amazing. And the

39:51

thing is amazing. And the thing

39:54

is amazing. And the thing is

39:56

amazing. And the thing is amazing.

39:59

It's difficult. because part of

40:01

it is so fun. So

40:03

I'm not trying to reign on

40:05

anyone's parade, but what I

40:07

am trying to say is

40:09

process your enthusiasm, because that

40:11

extreme passion that you're feeling is

40:13

not love. It is chemistry, it

40:16

is attraction, it is your

40:18

nervous system producing a whole

40:20

lot of cortisol and dopamine.

40:22

And so you are you are

40:24

you are revved up. And then

40:27

also, you're also producing other hormones

40:29

like oxytocin and all these

40:31

things that are making you

40:33

feel so excited about someone.

40:35

But love is something that happens

40:38

after those butterflies have settled. And

40:40

what you're building with someone

40:42

is emotional intimacy and closeness.

40:44

And that is different because

40:46

love is the building of trust,

40:48

it's the building of safety. And

40:51

passion has a role in it

40:53

for sure, because passion is

40:55

the thing that makes us

40:57

feel in love with someone,

40:59

versus just loving them the way

41:02

we would love a friend or

41:04

pet, or a family member.

41:06

But all that excitement that

41:08

you feel in the beginning

41:10

is exciting and also can be

41:12

very, very dangerous, because that is

41:15

when we stop being discerning. That

41:17

is when we lose sight

41:19

of our boundaries. That is

41:21

when we become, we get

41:23

tunnel vision and think, oh, I

41:26

have to make it work with

41:28

this person. And all I'm

41:30

suggesting is slow it down,

41:32

get to know this person's

41:34

character, know what you want, know

41:37

what your values are and what

41:39

you want in a relationship, and

41:41

understand that when you are

41:43

under the hypnosis of this

41:45

chemistry and this lust. You

41:47

cannot trust yourself entirely. And that's

41:50

why I tell people to slow.

41:52

it down and maybe wait

41:54

to sleep with them because

41:56

a lot of people especially

41:58

women once that happens you're

42:00

you're a goner and so yeah

42:03

and you know and that

42:05

doesn't quite work the same

42:07

way for men it doesn't

42:09

but when men like you and

42:11

they're actually really into you and

42:13

they and and you bring

42:15

sex to it into it

42:17

they it clouds their vision

42:19

too but yes it does not

42:22

especially for women sleeping with men

42:24

if he doesn't feel bonded to

42:27

you emotionally, intellectually, beyond the

42:29

physical, and then he sleeps

42:31

with you? He is not

42:33

going to be interested in you.

42:35

He's going to be turned off

42:38

by you. Yeah, I think

42:40

that's a really tough pill

42:42

for people to swallow because

42:44

we think that if we sleep

42:46

with the person, then we're going

42:48

to really solidify that that chemistry

42:51

and that bond that we

42:53

feel. No. and actually like

42:55

you say it can go

42:57

completely the other way. I mean

42:59

women will sleep with someone who's

43:02

a total loser and no

43:04

seriously, literally a terrible person

43:06

and she will convince herself

43:08

that she's in love because of

43:10

all the hormones and chemicals that

43:12

are produced after she sleeps with

43:15

him because she thinks he's

43:17

hot. Or he reminds her

43:19

of some unheeled wound that's

43:21

inside of her, that she's, her

43:23

unconscious is looking to, to heal.

43:26

And for him, if he

43:28

doesn't feel connected to you,

43:30

beyond the physical, you are,

43:32

you've become meaningless to him after

43:34

he has slept with you because

43:37

the conquest is over. And this

43:39

is just, it is human

43:41

nature. But, but, but the

43:43

thing is, what's the lesson

43:45

in that? Wait till there's a

43:47

connection. Make sure you're sleeping with

43:50

good people. Or have casual

43:52

sex, but know that you're

43:54

having casual sex and you're

43:56

doing it because you feel sexually

43:58

liberated and it's not about love

44:01

for you. necessarily. Because I think

44:03

sometimes, and I know from

44:05

friends that I've spoken to,

44:07

they sort of convince themselves,

44:09

like a man will say, let's

44:12

just use those kind of, you

44:14

know, a woman's into a man,

44:16

there's chemistry, there's stuff going

44:18

on, and the man will

44:20

say, like, I'm just not

44:22

interest, I'm not looking for a

44:25

relationship. And rather than go, okay,

44:27

thank you for your honesty,

44:29

like, I am, on to

44:31

the next, woman will go.

44:33

Okay, well, if I keep sleeping

44:36

with him, he'll start wanting that.

44:38

Yeah, I'll change him. Women need

44:40

to stop doing that immediately.

44:42

So when is the time,

44:44

what are the right questions

44:46

to ask yourself when you are

44:49

feeling that dopamine, chemical, combustion? What

44:51

are the right questions to

44:53

ask yourself to have that

44:55

self inquiry? And when is

44:57

the right time to get physical?

45:00

If there is one. Yeah, well,

45:02

it's hard to say. But so

45:05

for the people who tend

45:07

to get very obsessive when

45:09

they meet someone and they're

45:11

lusting, that's the time to double

45:13

down on your work, your purpose,

45:15

your friendships, and start a

45:17

new project. You need to

45:19

keep focusing on you and

45:21

not get lost in this. Yeah.

45:24

Because your creative energy can go

45:26

so channeled into this story that

45:29

you've just like, you're gone.

45:31

You're gone. And you need

45:33

to, because it's very important,

45:35

you do not have to be

45:37

fully healed or fully whole to

45:39

be in a relationship and

45:41

make it work and make

45:43

it healthy. But a sense

45:45

of self is very important. Need

45:48

to have a sense of self.

45:50

Otherwise. It's like, it's like relation,

45:53

what's a relationship like when

45:55

we're a teenager? It's all

45:57

lust, it's all emotion, it's

45:59

all crazy. Because you don't really

46:01

have a sense of self as

46:03

a teenager. So it's very important

46:05

as adults that we have a

46:07

sense of self. And so some

46:09

of the questions for that self

46:12

inquiry would be, wait a second,

46:14

do I even actually like this

46:16

person? What is it that I like

46:18

about them so much? Or I'm just

46:20

loving this feeling? What is it that

46:23

I'm actually really looking for

46:25

in a relationship? What are my

46:27

top three values that I want

46:29

to share with someone? What

46:32

do I, what's really important

46:34

to me? And then when to

46:36

sleep with someone, you know, there's

46:38

no rule. I don't really, there's

46:41

no rules around that. I think

46:43

it's, people are really, they're

46:46

eager to jump into bed in,

46:48

to bed with each other and

46:50

exchange fluids, but

46:52

they're not having

46:54

conversations. And how do you

46:56

know when it's time? It's like,

46:59

you have to decide what

47:01

is, what does sex mean

47:03

to you? And what do you

47:05

want it to mean to you?

47:07

Do you have a habit of,

47:10

and I think that this is,

47:12

a lot of women need

47:14

to ask themselves, do

47:16

I cherish my body? And

47:18

do I want to

47:20

continue to just give it

47:23

away to anyone who? gives

47:25

me some attention and pursues

47:27

me. But there are other women

47:29

who might say, you know, I don't

47:31

see it that way. I see this

47:34

as a liberating experience. More

47:36

power to you. All I'm

47:38

suggesting is know yourself, know

47:40

your vulnerabilities, get really real with

47:42

yourself, and then have a conversation.

47:44

You can say. I don't want

47:47

to take, I'm really attracted to

47:49

you, but I'm not ready to

47:51

have sex until there's a commitment

47:53

and we know each other more.

47:56

That's just, that's just the season

47:58

I'm in. That's what I need. we're bought

48:00

up in in a way

48:02

that we would equate being

48:04

lusted for or desired as

48:06

being liked. Yes. And then

48:09

we go into adult relationships

48:11

and you know someone like

48:13

desperately wants to sleep with

48:15

us and we think oh

48:17

well this means they want

48:19

a relationship or this makes

48:21

me really like me. They

48:23

really like me. Yeah. No

48:25

it's not true. To be

48:27

desired is not a same

48:29

thing as to be valued.

48:32

Yes, yes. And how can,

48:34

I guess it's like gathering

48:36

enough information so that you

48:38

can discern whether that person

48:40

is invested in you in

48:42

the way that you want

48:44

to be with them? You

48:46

know, I think it's just

48:48

conversations about values and the

48:50

kind of relationship you want

48:52

to build and feeling like...

48:55

You are opening up to each

48:58

other and vulnerable with each other

49:00

and close with each other. There

49:02

are no guarantees. But, you know,

49:05

feeling safe with this person, feeling

49:07

comfortable with this person, feeling like

49:09

you get that you guys really

49:12

get one another. And there's no

49:14

pressure being put on you. I

49:16

know, like, in love, there are

49:19

no guarantees. But in terms of,

49:21

and I think we like to

49:23

have this sort of... idealistic idea

49:26

that we can guarantee that we

49:28

won't be hurt and things like

49:30

that but unfortunately I'll never leave

49:33

you I'll never stop loving you

49:35

all of that yeah exactly but

49:38

in terms of choosing the right

49:40

partner because we kind of discussed

49:42

how okay if that chemistry that

49:45

feels completely off the charts but

49:47

actually fundamentally we don't share the

49:49

same values but it's still you

49:52

know, got my head in a

49:54

complete mess for however long. People

49:56

are like, okay, I know that

49:59

that doesn't work, but what exactly

50:01

am I? looking for because I

50:03

think the films, the TV, it

50:06

tells us that that is it.

50:08

That's what it's about. You have

50:10

to decide, do you want to

50:13

get married? Do you want to

50:15

have long-term relationship or do you

50:17

want an affair? Like a fun

50:20

thing. If you want a long-term

50:22

relationship, you have to look for

50:24

things that... You

50:26

know, what makes a long-term

50:29

relationship strong are two people

50:31

who are united front. They

50:33

maintain their autonomy, their autonomous

50:35

beings, but they also have

50:37

oneness with each other. They

50:40

become one. And that's a

50:42

hard balance. It's like, how

50:44

do we become one and

50:46

also maintain our autonomy? But

50:48

well, because ultimately you when

50:51

you're arguing you are arguing

50:53

with the intent to fix

50:55

the problem and to stay

50:57

united You're you're having you're

50:59

communicating to stay united You're

51:02

you're sharing a common vision.

51:04

That's very important a vision

51:06

for your life together Human

51:08

beings do very well having

51:10

goals and visions that they're

51:13

aspiring to and working towards

51:15

if you're going to be

51:17

in a relationship, you have

51:19

to have a shared vision.

51:21

That doesn't mean that every

51:24

vision for your life is

51:26

the same as the other.

51:28

No, you're two separate people,

51:30

but you have to have

51:32

a shared vision. If you

51:35

don't, that relationship's not going

51:37

to last. Or it might

51:39

last, but you'll be measurable.

51:41

It's very underrated, super, super,

51:43

super important. A relationship is

51:46

what happens after the honeymoon.

51:48

The honeymoon is very easy.

51:50

And, and look. It's

51:52

very hard to be attracted

51:55

to someone who's not good

51:57

for us because our body

51:59

wants what it wants But

52:01

then our body may want

52:03

the person who can't meet

52:05

our emotional wants and our

52:07

emotional needs. It's not choose

52:10

the person you're attracted to

52:12

in chemistry or choose the

52:14

safe person. You want to

52:16

learn how to do emotional

52:18

intimacy with someone and have

52:20

that be the thing that

52:22

helps the passion. Sustains it.

52:24

Sustains it. You also have

52:27

to do fun things with

52:29

the person. But, you know,

52:31

everyone has to, is the

52:33

best sex of your life

52:35

with someone with whom there

52:37

was some danger? Usually. I

52:39

hope to say that the

52:41

sex of life is probably

52:44

in prison. Exactly, there's that

52:46

same, right? Because there's a

52:48

little bit of danger. Because

52:50

a little bit of danger

52:52

is good. That's why couples

52:54

who actually engage in some

52:56

activities that are a little

52:58

dangerous, not dangerous in terms

53:01

of like seriously dangerous, but

53:03

just a little, little cortisol

53:05

spiking, little fun. That's really

53:07

good for chemistry. But

53:09

you can also have incredible sets

53:12

with the person who you feel

53:14

very connected to and safe with

53:17

and I don't know you too

53:19

can explore Tantra. You can go

53:21

to certain, you can go to

53:24

certain, um, There's lots of resources

53:26

now. You can go to retreats

53:28

where you're deepening your erotic self.

53:31

You're learning how to connect more

53:33

with your own body and then

53:36

you're connecting. I mean, there are

53:38

things you can do to have

53:40

really mind-helowing sets with the person

53:43

you feel safe with. I guess

53:45

it's about keeping the element of

53:48

novelty. It's novelty and also staying

53:50

connected to self. A lot of

53:52

times when the magic dies or

53:55

dims in a relationship, it starts

53:57

with some sort of magic dimming

54:00

within ourselves. What do you mean

54:02

by that? You're feeling stressed, chronically

54:04

stressed. You're not taking care of

54:07

your body. You're feeling disconnected from

54:09

your body. You're not doing anything

54:11

in your own life that has

54:14

novelty and excitement. So you're feeling

54:16

stressed in the little dead inside.

54:19

Yeah. And your own desire is

54:21

diminished. So your own desire is

54:23

diminished. And so your desire is

54:26

diminished. And so your desire for

54:28

the other will be diminished as

54:31

well. So in that case, it's,

54:33

oh, where is my relationship with

54:35

myself, erotically speaking, or just my

54:38

relationship with myself in terms of

54:40

my need for excitement and adventure,

54:43

am I meeting my needs in

54:45

a way that is helpful? And

54:47

I think that what in my

54:50

mind, what that brings us back

54:52

to is the shared vision, because

54:55

if you are feeling... those things

54:57

like your desires diminished and therefore

54:59

the magic has kind of gone

55:02

in you and in the relationship.

55:04

Yes. Something's off, something's out of

55:06

alignment. Yes. If you don't know

55:09

what your own vision is, how

55:11

can you get back in that

55:14

space? So how can people kind

55:16

of cultivate that within their relationship

55:18

and in their own lives to

55:21

actually be like, okay, this is

55:23

the thing that makes me feel

55:26

magical and lit up. Feeling that

55:28

life is an ebb and a

55:30

flow. There is an ebb and

55:33

flow of chemistry with your partner.

55:35

There's an ebb and flow with

55:38

finding meaning in life. I think

55:40

it's just about recognizing, like, oh,

55:42

I'm not feeling very connected. What

55:45

can I do to be more

55:47

connected? It's talking to your partner

55:49

about it. It's supporting your partner

55:52

when they're feeling a little bit

55:54

lost. This is just part of

55:57

life. We can't always be on.

55:59

We can't always be inspired. We

56:01

can't always be turned on. But

56:04

I think that the deeper message

56:06

is, well, what are you going

56:09

to do about it? You know,

56:11

are you going to just let

56:13

that state, emotional state, go on

56:16

and on and on and on?

56:18

Or are you going to talk

56:21

to your partner about it and

56:23

troubleshoot with them a little bit?

56:25

Or go see a therapist, maybe,

56:28

or maybe when it comes to

56:30

life purpose, it's probably better to

56:32

see a coach, or maybe not

56:35

better, but something that one should

56:37

consider as a possibility. And yeah,

56:40

does that answer your question? Yeah,

56:42

it does. And I wanted to

56:44

ask from your work doing one-on-one

56:47

with people or with couples, how

56:49

much of the success in a

56:52

long-term relationship is tied to the

56:54

capacity to handle difficult conversations? Very

56:56

much so. You know, it becomes

56:59

very difficult when a person cannot

57:01

regulate at all. Now what I

57:04

mean by that is... We need

57:06

to be in touch with our

57:08

emotions. We need to be in

57:11

touch with our feelings. That's actually

57:13

very attractive. We just don't want

57:15

our partner to collapse and fall

57:18

apart under the weight of their

57:20

feelings. So we want, so these

57:23

difficult conversations are important and made

57:25

possible when we can actually not

57:27

fall apart with the discomfort that

57:30

we feel in our bodies when

57:32

we're having them. So we don't

57:35

shut down, we don't pull away,

57:37

we don't scream, we don't yell,

57:39

all these things. We are able

57:42

to manage our reactions, even if

57:44

it means like, look, I'm feeling

57:47

very overwhelmed right now, I need

57:49

five minutes. Like I'm feeling supercharged

57:51

right now. These are the things.

57:54

And so... These

57:56

difficult conversations. Look. Anyone can

57:58

make a relationship last. But

58:00

is it, are you going

58:02

to be happy while it's

58:04

lasting? Or are you going

58:07

to be miserable? Lots of

58:09

people, it's, lots of people

58:11

can make a relationship last

58:13

20, 30, 50 years. It's

58:15

really not that hard. Two

58:17

people can just disengage, dissociate,

58:20

and stay married for years.

58:22

But to make a marriage

58:24

really work. to make a

58:26

marriage or relationship feel like,

58:28

oh, this is a positive

58:31

force in my life, that's

58:33

an entirely different skill. And

58:35

you need to be able

58:37

to have the hard conversations

58:39

to really make sure that

58:41

resentment doesn't set in so

58:44

that you're understanding each other,

58:46

so that you're problem solving,

58:48

and then ultimately. growing together

58:50

as a couple as a

58:52

result of that. And the

58:54

final thing I wanted to

58:57

ask you because you mentioned

58:59

it at the very beginning

59:01

about how in your the

59:03

man that you married that

59:05

there was 90% great stuff

59:07

and 10% not so great.

59:10

Yeah. And then as soon

59:12

as you got married those

59:14

flipped. Yes. Would you say

59:16

that that is something that

59:18

just happens when people get

59:20

married, have children, that the

59:23

little things become sort of

59:25

under a microscope? Yes, so

59:27

this isn't to scare people,

59:29

but it's for people to

59:31

understand that moving in together,

59:33

marriage, these things don't solve

59:36

problems. Yeah, they just trigger

59:38

all your shit. So the

59:40

lesson is not, is not

59:42

don't move into the other,

59:44

don't get married, but just

59:46

deal with your problems. Deal

59:49

with your problems, deal with

59:51

your issues. Marriage is not

59:53

going, because a lot of

59:55

people will think, and women

59:57

in particular will think, well,

59:59

if I'm married, I get

1:00:02

the commitment, so I have.

1:00:04

certainty so I'm safe now.

1:00:06

No, no, no, no. It

1:00:08

doesn't work like that. It

1:00:10

doesn't work like that because

1:00:12

your problems don't go away

1:00:15

just because you got married.

1:00:17

They actually, again, they get

1:00:19

bigger because now in a

1:00:21

way there's no way out.

1:00:23

Yeah, there's been emerging. Yeah.

1:00:26

So how do people prepare

1:00:28

for that? you know, notice

1:00:30

that things are going to

1:00:32

come up, that it's going

1:00:34

to be incredibly challenging. Yeah.

1:00:36

But not throw in the

1:00:39

towel. Yeah. Well, I love

1:00:41

the idea of people doing

1:00:43

preventative couples work. Because, you

1:00:45

know, once things are really

1:00:47

bad, it's hard. So I

1:00:49

think your relationship is great,

1:00:52

great. Go do some couples

1:00:54

work. So that you

1:00:56

so that the two of you

1:00:58

can really be prepared for when

1:01:01

things come up you can solidify

1:01:03

some stuff You know, there's always

1:01:05

going to be things that come

1:01:08

up where you think oh, I

1:01:10

didn't know that you were feeling

1:01:12

that Mm-hmm And it's easier when

1:01:14

there's a sort of mediator in

1:01:17

the room versus it going by

1:01:19

on said look sometimes couples therapists.

1:01:21

We had terrible ones. So I'm

1:01:24

not a huge fan of couples

1:01:26

therapy. I'm really not Sometimes they

1:01:28

make it worse. So you find

1:01:30

a really good one is all

1:01:33

I say. You know, so I'm

1:01:35

a fan of preventative couples work,

1:01:37

but I also I want to

1:01:40

caution people. Sometimes when you go

1:01:42

into it, then you then you're

1:01:44

looking for problems to solve and

1:01:46

you don't want to be searching

1:01:49

for problems ever. So, you know,

1:01:51

maybe it's a couples retreat. I

1:01:53

like it more for things that

1:01:56

are bonding that gives you tools

1:01:58

for. closeness. I'm a big fan

1:02:00

of that. That's strengthen the union.

1:02:03

Yeah, strengthen the union. And you

1:02:05

know, it's so like that's why

1:02:07

I call it couples work rather

1:02:09

than sitting on a couch and

1:02:12

speaking to a therapist when nothing

1:02:14

is wrong and maybe then you

1:02:16

kind of search for something that's

1:02:19

wrong. Yeah. Well, thank you so

1:02:21

much. This has been such joy

1:02:23

to speak to you and thank

1:02:25

you for the work that you.

1:02:28

you put out into the world.

1:02:30

It's, I know it's helped millions

1:02:32

of people and will continue to.

1:02:35

I appreciate that so much. I

1:02:40

hope you enjoy this episode of

1:02:42

Letters to Venus as much as

1:02:44

I enjoyed having this conversation. And

1:02:46

if you want to dive deeper

1:02:48

into Jillian's work, you can find

1:02:51

her podcast, Jillian On Love, and

1:02:53

I highly, highly recommend getting her

1:02:55

new book. It begins with you.

1:02:57

I found it's such a powerful

1:02:59

guide to breaking unhealthy patterns and

1:03:01

really giving us the tools to

1:03:03

build deeper, more meaningful relationships. So

1:03:05

thank you Jillian for coming on

1:03:07

the show and if you guys

1:03:09

are enjoying the show so far

1:03:11

I hope you are Know that

1:03:13

we are doing a letters to

1:03:15

Venus course to really help you

1:03:18

dive deeper on these themes. It

1:03:20

will be part of a communities

1:03:22

so you can share anything that

1:03:24

you're navigating. It will be a

1:03:26

really safe space and we're going

1:03:28

to be joined by expert guests

1:03:30

throughout a four week period. So

1:03:32

if this sounds like something you're

1:03:34

interested in, if this podcast is

1:03:36

helping you, if you're looking to

1:03:38

find love or to deepen a

1:03:40

relationship that you're in. or to

1:03:42

really just help fix patterns that

1:03:45

are holding you back and you

1:03:47

feel like you've got some blind

1:03:49

spots in. I hope that you

1:03:51

will join me and our guests

1:03:53

for this beautiful course for Letters

1:03:55

to Venus. Please find

1:03:57

the link in

1:03:59

the in the show head

1:04:01

to or head to Saturn

1:04:03

.uk UK