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1:08

Hello everyone and welcome to

1:10

Saturn Returns with me, Kaggy

1:12

Dunlop. This is a podcast

1:15

that aims to bring clarity

1:17

during transitional times

1:19

where there can be confusion

1:21

and doubt. Oh my goodness, I

1:23

am so happy to introduce you

1:25

to a dear dear friend of

1:27

mine. If you guys read the

1:29

Saturn Returns book, which by the

1:31

way I always forget to plug,

1:33

so if you haven't, I have

1:35

a book, please go and get

1:37

it. I talk about friendship a

1:39

lot in it, I talk about

1:41

relationships a lot in it, and

1:43

I reference Tally as the longest

1:45

relationship I've ever had because she

1:47

and I, who was the guest

1:50

on this show today, have been

1:52

best friends since we were... I think

1:54

we met when we were about

1:56

12, maybe a little bit younger,

1:58

I could be wrong, grew up

2:00

in that... all of white together

2:03

every summer. Tally was like the

2:05

leader of the pack and she's

2:07

always been the most popular funny

2:10

girl and you will see why

2:12

in this conversation. And we were

2:14

inseparable from about 14 to our

2:17

early 20s and then it was

2:19

kind of like, and we discussed

2:21

it in this conversation I think

2:24

when I was going into my

2:26

late. 20s and like going through

2:28

this transition and kind of this

2:30

self-inflicted exiles I call it just

2:33

before I kind of went through

2:35

my Saturn return. A lot of

2:37

my friendships shifted and I know

2:40

you guys have experienced that and

2:42

what I try and always encourage

2:44

you to remember is like if

2:47

a friendship is based on something

2:49

really solid it will come back

2:51

in a different form and I

2:54

feel like me and Talio perfect

2:56

example of that, like we went

2:58

in our different directions and now

3:01

we've kind of come back together

3:03

with so much love and appreciation

3:05

for each other and each other's

3:07

paths and what we're pursuing in

3:10

life and career. She's been so

3:12

helpful to me around my pregnancy

3:14

and like helping me with you

3:17

know what I need, what I

3:19

don't need and because she knows

3:21

me so well and every version

3:24

of me that has ever existed.

3:26

It is something, it is a

3:28

friendship that I will value forever.

3:31

And I'm so pleased to introduce

3:33

you to her because she's got

3:35

a fantastic business called Pinky Studios

3:38

that... basically does custom poetry for

3:40

people and it's she's so talented

3:42

and we always did poetry we

3:45

always did role play with each

3:47

other we used to just I

3:49

mean this goes to show how

3:51

old we are because this is

3:54

well before social media we we

3:56

would literally lie in bed for

3:58

hours just like pretending to be

4:01

different characters to each other and

4:03

then we be on the phone

4:05

for hours we would write a

4:08

poem and like let's go write

4:10

a poem and call each other

4:12

and read it out. It was

4:15

such a magical childhood that I

4:17

had with Tally because we always

4:19

had that creative streak and that

4:22

sort of performing streak in common

4:24

and seeing her craft this beautiful

4:26

career that is so unique to

4:28

her skill is just... Oh, it's

4:31

just heartwarming. It's so magical to

4:33

see. And what joy she brings

4:35

to people's lives that she writes

4:38

poems for because she can do

4:40

it literally standing on her head

4:42

and she has a way of

4:45

taking people's story and alcomising it

4:47

into something so beautiful and unique

4:49

and a piece of art that

4:52

they will treasure forever. So if

4:54

you guys have anything going on

4:56

where you think you think you

4:59

might... need a poem, whether that's

5:01

a speech you have to do

5:03

at a wedding or someone's birthday

5:06

or a baby being born, whatever

5:08

it might be, it's for any

5:10

occasion. I highly suggest checking out

5:12

her work because, yeah, it's such

5:15

a gift to the world. So

5:17

thank you Tally for being here

5:19

you are and doing what you

5:22

do. And I hope you guys

5:24

enjoy this conversation because it's all

5:26

about... really about like friendship coming

5:29

back together and the bond that

5:31

we have and we discuss some

5:33

quite funny things because like I

5:36

said Tally probably knows me better

5:38

than most people even the parts

5:40

that I would prefer. So I

5:43

hope you enjoy this and find

5:45

it amazing and thank you Tally

5:47

and if you guys want to

5:49

check out her. Pinky Studio, go

5:52

to Pinky Studio.co. UK. Tallyhacket,

6:00

welcome to the Saturday. That's my name

6:02

anymore. Oh my god, of course, it

6:05

isn't. Well, to me, you'll always be

6:07

Tallyhacket. No, to me, I'll always be

6:09

Tallyhacket. I cried when I changed my

6:12

name. Did you? Alex came into our

6:14

room and I was like, hysterically crying

6:16

on the Gov. UK passport application. And

6:19

he was like, you don't have to

6:21

change your name. I was like, I

6:23

do. I do. How? Hello. Hello, Cag.

6:25

And welcome to The Satter Returned Podcast.

6:28

I feel like we should have been

6:30

doing this. We were like 12 years

6:32

old. Oh my God, what was that

6:35

thing I sent you the other day?

6:37

I always get to serve these memes

6:39

of people now, like teenagers now, doing

6:42

their really sexy dance routines, and then

6:44

it flashed back to what we were

6:46

like. doing our, I would love to

6:49

dig up that footage of us doing

6:51

our dancing. I think for the sake

6:53

of this episode I'm going to have

6:56

to find some of, at least the

6:58

photographs that we took, do you remember

7:00

when it had that thing that feature

7:02

where it like walked your faces and

7:05

then we loved it, but we didn't

7:07

care, there was no like makeup, it

7:09

was all very innocent. But that's because

7:12

no one was really seeing it. I

7:14

guess we could have always work. I

7:16

think I need to delete my photo.

7:19

But for the audience that doesn't know,

7:21

I mean, this is just going to

7:23

be very conversational and this is a

7:26

kind of trip down memory lane for

7:28

us because as I referred you in

7:30

the book as my oldest relationship. I

7:32

cried when I read that. It's like

7:35

about platonic love. It's amazing. I read

7:37

your book. If you remember, I got

7:39

it and I read it in like

7:42

three hours, you were like, you're okay.

7:44

Yeah, six coffees. Yeah, but that meant

7:46

so much to me. Yeah, it's amazing.

7:49

I loved it. But you've been such

7:51

a huge chapter of my life, and

7:53

so I kind of wanted to have

7:56

you on to not only talk about

7:58

what you're doing now, but also of

8:00

like the journey that we've been through

8:03

together as friends, because it's such a

8:05

big topic that. people don't really know

8:07

how to talk about, especially when things

8:09

change and life moves you in different

8:12

directions and then kind of how it

8:14

comes. We've been through a lot together.

8:16

We've been through a lot, so which

8:19

we take it back to the beginning.

8:21

Where we met. Yes. How old were

8:23

we? We must have been really little

8:26

at school, at primary school. So we

8:28

both went to Prospect House. Yeah. In

8:30

Putney. I would have been. You were

8:33

very sweet, little. little funny little thing

8:35

but you know like in a film

8:37

where they sort of have like quite

8:40

a big slow up but in a

8:42

you were never you were beautiful sweet

8:44

little thing but you know you're even

8:46

your beautiful sweet little thing but you

8:49

know you're even your dad said that

8:51

your teeth look like they've been hammered

8:53

in by a drunk blind man and

8:57

you had this eye patch and

8:59

these glasses and your hair. You

9:01

always describe it with glass. It

9:03

just makes it better. Was it

9:05

just the eye patch? It was

9:07

just the eye patch but the

9:09

eye patch had little stickers on

9:11

it. It did. And then you

9:13

had this sort of like hair

9:15

that was... sort of like little

9:17

wispy pubes coming out. You were

9:19

just, it was just, you were

9:21

so sweet. You know, you were

9:23

very lovable and cute, but you,

9:25

but you, you had a glow

9:27

up. I had a lot of

9:29

ailments when I was little. Yeah.

9:31

Had I also did I get

9:33

the skin thing on my arm

9:35

and then I was obviously really,

9:37

really, really small. Yeah. And you

9:39

had that funny walk. But all

9:41

the rest is true. Whereas you

9:43

were always very. cool, popular. So

9:45

we weren't friends at Prospect House,

9:47

but I was not friends with

9:49

everyone. No, no, we became friends

9:51

in CV. Yeah, then we became

9:53

friends in CV in the Isle

9:55

of Wight, which is somewhere we

9:57

both grew up going together, you

9:59

know, like you go away for

10:01

your summer holidays. That's where we

10:03

would go. And it was magic.

10:05

It was metallic. Till the boys

10:07

and sex got involved. Yeah, but

10:09

it was butter. That was very

10:11

late though, really. Especially for you,

10:13

Christ. Real late bloomer. But it

10:15

was because we just kind of

10:17

cruised around on our micro scooters.

10:19

On our micro scooters. No bones.

10:21

No one cared where we were.

10:23

every single person on the Isle

10:25

of Wight's house phone number and

10:27

say I'm not going to say

10:29

it. Most of your mom stops

10:31

getting some prank calls. That's probably

10:33

what we would have been doing.

10:35

Frank calling people. God. Yeah we

10:37

had an amazing time. We learned

10:39

to sounds a bit much doesn't

10:41

it but we did do some

10:43

we had to have summer jobs.

10:45

Our moms were very good and

10:47

instilling that and us good work.

10:49

He thought and we would work.

10:51

I mean it now sounds a

10:53

bit very posh but at the

10:55

local. And we lasted... Was it

10:57

a day or two? When did

10:59

we get fired? I'd give us

11:01

two. We all said, you fired

11:03

15-year-olds. This is basically our first

11:05

job, pretty much. This is our

11:07

first job, because then we worked

11:09

at cows thereafter, which was an

11:11

absolute disaster. We were assistant instructors.

11:13

Honestly, I think they paid us

11:15

50 peer a day. We were

11:17

so thrilled. And there was a

11:19

staff briefing the morning... the day

11:21

after we just started, it was

11:23

day two. and this man stood

11:25

up and said well unfortunately we've

11:27

got some very bad news because

11:29

there's been a report a few

11:31

complaints from some of the members

11:33

saying there were two girls going

11:36

through the moorings which is like

11:38

where all the boats are kept

11:40

on like a tiny little dinggy

11:42

with an engine at the back

11:44

I was one at the front

11:46

holding onto a rope pretending to

11:48

last through the rope screaming and

11:50

the other one was at the

11:52

bat definitely me at the bat

11:54

driving going through the moorings way

11:56

too fast and I looked at

11:58

cag and I was like that

12:00

was us and he's like caggy

12:02

and tallie. are fired and I

12:04

remember walking out on our moms

12:06

being so upset and it was

12:08

it was a really big deal.

12:10

But actually considering all the things

12:12

we've done that was not that

12:14

bad. That wasn't worthy of being

12:16

fired over it. Yeah but I

12:18

think you know we all do

12:20

make mistakes when we're younger. We've

12:22

made many. Some of them are

12:24

way too excited to say. Especially

12:26

on my part. Maybe I don't

12:28

know where you're going to go

12:30

with that. No, I'm just not.

12:32

I'm just going to start talking

12:34

because otherwise I think we'll probably

12:36

get cancelled. But in terms of

12:38

sort of seeing childhood growth through

12:40

different stages, because those were like

12:42

towards the end of our teenage

12:44

years. And we didn't go to

12:46

the same secondary school, but we'd

12:48

speak on the phone. A huge

12:50

life point for you was your

12:52

parents getting divorced. Yeah. That was

12:54

massive. And we used to speak

12:56

on the phone every night. And

12:58

so much of what I do

13:00

now stems from, and what you

13:02

know, with your, you obviously write

13:04

beautiful poetry. And we used to

13:06

do this thing where we'd ring

13:08

each other and then I'd say,

13:10

right, okay, call you back in

13:12

three minutes, let's see what we

13:14

can write. And then we put

13:16

the phone down, obviously like a

13:18

big house phone, write a poem,

13:20

call each other back, and read

13:22

it to each other. I think

13:24

I still have some of them,

13:26

I need to find them, and

13:28

dig them, but. That was like

13:30

one of the first ones that

13:32

I wrote. That was really cute.

13:34

Yeah, I should, I should, I

13:36

should share it. But yeah, there's

13:38

been so many massive, you know,

13:40

life things that we've been together.

13:42

It's so nice when you have

13:44

a friend who, you know, it's

13:46

like really to watch each other

13:48

properly grow up from that funny

13:50

little. patch, I patch girl. But

13:52

also I think we've always shared,

13:54

which probably we didn't appreciate or

13:56

realize at the time, that sort

13:58

of creative expression. I mean we

14:00

used to spend not only doing

14:02

the poetry and everything but we

14:04

We used to lie in bed

14:06

for hours. Just playing these different

14:08

characters. We used to do role

14:10

play. Oh my god, we'd do

14:12

like acting scenes. Lots of it

14:14

in sea view. Arguing. I'd be

14:16

the angry husband and he'd be

14:18

the exhausted wife. We did. We

14:20

used to lie in bed for

14:23

hours. Yeah, we did it. Just

14:25

playing these different characters. Yeah but

14:27

I wouldn't have wanted to be

14:29

anywhere else like we have such

14:31

a beautiful friendship that really fulfilled

14:33

so many aspects and the creative

14:35

ways we stimulate each other was

14:37

actually amazing. And it meant that

14:39

we had endless fun. Also imagine

14:41

if we this we were in

14:43

it's in the time now we'd

14:45

probably be lying in bed on

14:47

TikTok. I do keep thinking about,

14:49

I keep getting also served all

14:51

these videos of people who do

14:53

things on Tikto and on only

14:55

fans who sell like pictures of

14:57

their feet. Apparently Lily Allen's making

14:59

like 14. She's got really nice

15:01

feet. But I'm meant to, but

15:03

like, she's got nice feet. You

15:05

thought about it. Have I? There

15:07

was a point I remember having

15:09

dinner with a girlfriend and she

15:11

told me that people sell their

15:13

dirty underwear and made a lot

15:15

of money and I was like,

15:17

why, okay, interesting. And then I

15:19

thought actually spoke to friends the

15:21

other night when I was coming

15:23

home from dinner about the other

15:25

girl who farts into jars. And

15:27

she's absolutely cleaned up. I've heard

15:29

about someone that sweats into vials.

15:31

Oh yes, that's what I might,

15:33

yeah, I've heard that as well.

15:35

But the farting into jars, so

15:37

I thought I could be called

15:39

Guff guff gal. Guff, Guff, Guff,

15:41

Guff, And I could fart in

15:43

jars and we were talking about

15:45

how it would work and whether

15:47

you sort of get the jar

15:49

and then you have, obviously it's

15:51

really obvious this is your home,

15:53

so we'd have to hang, I

15:55

don't know why I'd be doing

15:57

it. here, but we'd hang some

15:59

material there and then we'd get

16:01

the jar. And then my friend

16:03

said, would the camera be at

16:05

the bottom of the jar? And

16:07

I was like, what? So you

16:09

can see the fart come out.

16:11

Surely it'll be at the side.

16:13

Anyway, yeah, sorry, so I'm going

16:15

to start farting into yours if

16:17

we'll all fail with the poetry.

16:19

That's my next stop. But you've

16:21

had an amazing career pivot. Yeah.

16:23

Would you be able to, because

16:25

I think for our audience like

16:27

people, like who the fuck is

16:29

this guy? No, no, but as

16:31

often people are like, I really

16:33

want to change what I'm doing.

16:35

I'm hating my job. I had

16:37

this idea and what I always

16:39

find so beautiful about what you

16:41

do and I try and encourage

16:43

people to do the same. I

16:45

was like, go back to what.

16:47

What you enjoy when you're young.

16:49

Definitely. And that's like what you've

16:51

done. Yeah. Turn it into this

16:53

incredible business, which is just so

16:55

you. And it makes people so

16:57

happy. Yeah, it's so nice. I'm

16:59

basically make people cry with happiness

17:01

for a living, which is pretty

17:03

lovely. Would you be able to

17:05

explain it? So, obviously, and I

17:07

love writing and I love... words

17:10

and storytelling. And storytelling, yeah. I'm

17:12

a good storyteller. I love like

17:14

a fun, upbeat, happy story and

17:16

some loles. I was a PA

17:18

for ages. I ran like children's.

17:20

Actually, I'm not even talking about

17:22

that because I was a whole

17:24

other Chandra, but yeah, I was

17:26

a PA I had lots of

17:28

various jobs and I just hadn't

17:30

really found my thing. I was

17:32

really happy and everything was great,

17:34

but I wrote poems for people

17:36

for... birthdays and weddings and everyone

17:38

would say, oh Tally do you

17:40

want to go to your poems

17:42

my 30th and can you do

17:44

a speech? And you know I

17:46

just did it because I loved

17:48

it. It's like my thing. And

17:50

Alex was like, oh it's so

17:52

you know it's so amazing that

17:54

you've got this sort of talent

17:56

and it's lovely. But it was

17:58

never really like... I just never

18:00

thought about it of actually making

18:02

it into something, a career. My

18:04

sister-in-law Tori, who's a life coach,

18:06

who's amazing, she was like, what

18:08

are you doing? Just make this

18:10

into a business. Write poems for

18:12

people. And obviously, you know, impostor

18:14

syndrome, which I think maybe it's

18:16

worth for women, I'm sure it

18:18

must be. But I was obviously

18:20

like, shouldn't be ridiculous. I couldn't

18:22

do it. Oh my God, no.

18:24

And anyway, I sort of pushed

18:26

the fuck it button and it

18:28

is it takes massive balls and

18:30

it's really risky and Especially going

18:32

from something where you're making money

18:34

to then sort of taking you

18:36

know I kept the other job

18:38

I was doing and sort of

18:40

started slowly And I was really

18:42

lucky in that it worked and

18:44

I do I do feel like

18:46

there's so like when I first

18:48

I didn't really tell anyone I

18:50

was doing it and I made

18:52

the Instagram and I was like,

18:54

fuck it, and everyone, loads of

18:56

people shared genuinely because they've seen

18:58

me do a permit, a party,

19:00

or they heard me read a

19:02

permit, my brother's wedding, or whatever

19:04

it may be. And I remember

19:06

someone saying in a world where

19:08

there is so much AI, this

19:10

feels like a really human business.

19:12

And I think for me that

19:14

was such, that release spurred me

19:16

on because we like that. Yeah,

19:18

I'm really good at poems, I

19:20

am. But I also think it's

19:22

like that human connection, like I

19:24

understand relationships, you know, I understand

19:26

people, and I think that I

19:28

love getting to know each client

19:30

and I'll have a call with

19:32

them and it's amazing and we

19:34

chat and we laugh and I

19:36

feel like I'm naming forever and

19:38

then I'll write them a questionnaire

19:40

and they fill it in and

19:42

then I'll write the poem from

19:44

that. But it's all the poems

19:46

are full of, you know, I

19:48

do do sad ones for funerals

19:50

for funerals and... awful things but

19:52

most of them even those ones

19:54

to be honest are just full

19:56

of love and happy memories and

19:59

special moments and Yeah, I

20:01

love it. I feel really lucky

20:03

that I love what I do.

20:05

I wanted to share something with

20:07

you that's made a huge difference

20:09

to my sleep quality, natural mat.

20:11

If you're anything like me, you

20:13

care about what goes into your

20:15

sleep environment. After all, it's where

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21:22

it's also such a unique ability to,

21:24

because it sounds like everyone that you've

21:26

worked with has had the same response,

21:29

whereas it's like it feels like it's

21:31

what they wish they could have written.

21:33

Because it feels so personal. Well, so

21:36

many people, actually it's so funny, will,

21:38

which is, thank God, I have zero

21:40

ego and all I want is them

21:43

to just love their poems and enjoy

21:45

it. But it's there, as you know,

21:47

they're paying me to do it. But

21:49

a lot of people will read them

21:52

out. will say they wrote them because

21:54

it's so unfathomable that anybody could have

21:56

written something about that person that everyone

21:59

in that room knows and loves. that

22:01

feels so spot on. Of quirks and

22:03

stories and stories. I love doing ones

22:06

which are like mix of like very

22:08

funny and happy and upbeat and sentimental

22:10

but also with a massive vein running

22:13

through of I love you like this

22:15

is a big moment whatever it may

22:17

be and I want to tell you

22:20

in a either really public way or

22:22

read it to you just the two

22:24

of you but either way it's really

22:27

magic. I shared one the other day

22:29

that I actually thought about you when

22:31

I wrote it because it was like

22:34

the it was about platonic love because

22:36

I sort of thought I knew that

22:38

I actually think I just got off

22:40

the phone to my mom and she

22:43

was talking about how friendships change as

22:45

you get older and which is obviously

22:47

so true. But yeah, so it goes

22:50

to the friends who lift you, shake

22:52

you, and guide you every day who

22:54

no matter the circumstances know exactly what

22:57

to what to say. They know your

22:59

joys, your sorrows, and want to just

23:01

pause. There's no contract here, no promises,

23:04

or get outclaws. It's empathy, support, and

23:06

endless care for all you do. Just

23:08

pure platonic love, quietly helping you through.

23:11

And that's what I'm trying to do,

23:13

is share. more personal stuff that I've

23:15

written because also I don't I don't

23:18

share the poems that I write for

23:20

clients because they're so personal and they're

23:22

theirs. Yeah. And I think sharing stuff

23:25

like that is so powerful because it's

23:27

also universal and I think the platonic

23:29

love piece people don't speak about enough

23:31

not only how profound it can be

23:34

but also painful it can be when

23:36

things do change because I know that

23:38

we've gone through. We were inseparable four

23:41

of our teen years. And then I

23:43

guess it was probably not until like,

23:45

maybe when I moved to LA or

23:48

something, that I'm distant, so you know.

23:50

Yeah, and then for a bit we

23:52

went in kind of different directions. But

23:55

there was always like, there's always an

23:57

unsaid, a pain in that. Oh my

23:59

God, totally. No one talks about it.

24:02

No, it's not like. And it's kind

24:04

of, you just want to say, let

24:06

everything's fine. We're just doing different things

24:09

at the moment, but I love you

24:11

and this is never going to change.

24:13

But it's funny, isn't it? Because it

24:16

kind of happens and time goes, like,

24:18

I have to say, I was, you

24:20

become so much more acutelyly aware, aware

24:22

of time. as you get older for

24:25

sure and obviously you know I'm sure

24:27

for everyone it's the same but for

24:29

me particularly since having children I am

24:32

watching these little people like grow in

24:34

front of your eyes I am literally

24:36

like oh my god like it's it's

24:39

I'm like there's nearly done it's just

24:41

it's it's wild what and how precious

24:43

it yeah and I just so conscious

24:46

of being mindful and it's like being

24:48

in the moment being in the moment

24:50

in the moment and And there's a

24:53

lot of sort of pressure to be

24:55

present. I feel like it's everywhere. I

24:57

go on again on Instagram and I

25:00

was like, you will only have this

25:02

day, one day in your life. It's

25:04

like, I'm literally like, fuck. Oh my

25:07

God, better do something amazing. Which actually

25:09

is a bit much, isn't it? Because

25:11

it's actually the little moments that are

25:14

the best. Not the massive ones. Well,

25:16

I go too, but you know, not

25:18

all the time. Fark could be exhausted.

25:20

pinky and that's thriving. I love it.

25:23

My creative cop is full but I'm

25:25

always thinking of ways that I can

25:27

do more and I love people and

25:30

speaking to people and I definitely feel

25:32

like you know when you feel like

25:34

you have so much to give and

25:37

kind of at that point I feel

25:39

like I'm on a bit of a...

25:41

Because also you've always had so much

25:44

to give. And I feel like you've,

25:46

I've been sad to say you've only

25:48

really a... yourself more recently to start

25:51

giving it and I think now that

25:53

the gates have opened you like oh

25:55

wow yeah so much more yeah and

25:58

like you say as well having that

26:00

awareness of time yeah yeah I need

26:02

to get on with it but it's

26:05

funny because I wouldn't change anything because

26:07

everything's led to this which is probably

26:09

the same for you I read something

26:11

the other day that's listing all these

26:14

amazing successful people who started their careers

26:16

or did the first thing that they

26:18

did you know in their... 30s, 40s,

26:21

50s, 50s, 60s. And actually, I think

26:23

there's so much pressure when we're younger

26:25

to be like, well, what are you

26:28

going to be? What are you going

26:30

to do? And actually, it's kind of

26:32

fun if you don't know, because I

26:35

definitely only found my groove at 35.

26:37

And that's not even old. I think

26:39

also people, there's this narrative that when

26:42

you have kids, things are going to

26:44

narrow. And I'm sure in many ways

26:46

they do, but what I love about.

26:49

Your story is had kids and then

26:51

you've been like actually. Yeah, I was

26:53

literally pregnant with Goldie and I had

26:56

a call with this Obviously, I'm not

26:58

like the most woo-woo person, but I

27:00

definitely am so I have channy because

27:02

of you Like I definitely like my

27:05

Saturn returns like I've got more into

27:07

all the astrological side of everything because

27:09

of you and I actually think it's

27:12

super super interesting and so much of

27:14

it makes sense you can't really I'm

27:16

sort of surrounded to it and I'm

27:19

like, yeah, well, it's probably because of

27:21

the fucking mean, isn't it? Whereas before

27:23

I would not be as open to

27:26

it, which I think is really great.

27:28

But I had a call with a,

27:30

sort of like a reader, a healer.

27:33

I don't know what her death, what

27:35

she is is. Anyway, and when I

27:37

was pregnant with Goldie and she, I

27:40

said I'm thinking of starting this business

27:42

and I just, I just need someone

27:44

to tell me to do it. and

27:47

she everything she said about me and

27:49

about the business she even told me

27:51

she said you're having a girl and

27:53

I didn't know. And I said, have

27:56

you ever got it wrong? She said,

27:58

yeah, once. I was like, okay, fine,

28:00

it's not, you know, it might not

28:03

be a girl. I knew in my

28:05

gut it was a girl anyway, but,

28:07

and everything she said has been so

28:10

spot on. And she was the one

28:12

who was like, never filter yourself. You

28:14

have to, it's your true self that

28:17

is gonna be what gets you, you

28:19

know, you know, places within your career.

28:21

But I do think sometimes you need

28:24

someone to give you that little push.

28:26

But as someone that's always had a

28:28

huge amount of validation from everyone you've

28:31

ever met that you are wonderful and

28:33

funny and that people adore you, what

28:35

do you think held you back from,

28:38

I guess, being your true self in

28:40

that kind of way? Me. Like the

28:42

only person holding me back was me.

28:44

And I don't know. Maybe it's because

28:47

I didn't think I deserved it. I

28:49

deserved it. You know I think I

28:51

definitely have been on a bit of

28:54

a journey this year. I started doing

28:56

Pilates three times a week. I go

28:58

to an amazing place in barns called

29:01

Life Body and then I'll roll up

29:03

my mat and do a briny dairy

29:05

class and that looking after myself and

29:08

I think having children and knowing what

29:10

kind of role model I would like

29:12

to be and for them yeah has

29:15

had like quite a big and this

29:17

lady who I spoke to when I

29:19

was pregnant that you know this sort

29:22

of psychic lady she said that your

29:24

daughter's this baby's coming to like teach

29:26

you something massive and show you like

29:29

it's a she's a lesson and I

29:31

really feel like she has been which

29:33

sounds probably a bit mad like a

29:35

mirror for you yeah like to sort

29:38

of and I've really changed my life

29:40

this year sort of with my health

29:42

and with how I live and how

29:45

much I'm now a massive walker like

29:47

I've changed my mindset but I worked

29:49

with a coach. a guy called Matt

29:52

Lowry. That was a consciousness and I

29:54

made it the beginning of the year

29:56

when I decided I wanted to make

29:59

these changes. And that's been... probably the

30:01

best thing I've ever done. He's incredible

30:03

and it's changed my whole mindset, like

30:06

so much of it is mindset. I

30:08

think I was always so worried about

30:10

like the diet and like doing the

30:13

keto and whatever. And then actually I

30:15

changed my mindset and everything sort of

30:17

kind of falling into place. Like I

30:20

get to do Pilates, I get to

30:22

walk. Like how lucky am I like,

30:24

it's not like, oh God. Gotta go

30:27

to a fucking class. Like it's not

30:29

like that at all. And it sounds

30:31

like the smallest thing, but it's really

30:33

amazing. And in terms of the woo-woo

30:36

stuff, that you're like, find okay. No,

30:38

I sort of went off on that

30:40

tangent and funny. It's like, what did,

30:43

because obviously you've known me so better

30:45

than anyone. Now I sort of feel

30:47

like perhaps I've had. a bit more

30:50

of like a, would we call it

30:52

a spiritual awakening? It sounds a bit

30:54

intense, but now I've sort of experienced

30:57

it. I now understand it a lot

30:59

more, like where you are at. And

31:01

I definitely think like having watched you,

31:04

like, you know, even your relationship with

31:06

yourself, your relationship with your boyfriend, like

31:08

the way you manage yourself. is very

31:11

different pre you becoming a bit woo-woo.

31:13

That's a nice way of putting it.

31:15

It is a nice way of putting

31:18

it, isn't it? Yeah. You're like, okay.

31:20

Got some really good flashbacks here by,

31:22

but save your... I mean, to kind

31:24

of add a bit of context, I

31:27

think you were the one that coined

31:29

the name Katrina for me. Which was

31:31

my alter ego when I'd be drinking.

31:34

It's just like, it was so funny

31:36

because you, and I know lots of

31:38

people who... have this and haven't done

31:41

what you've done and kind of haven't

31:43

recognized that perhaps when it gets to

31:45

a certain point like it's not good.

31:48

But we'd be, you know, we would

31:50

go out and we'd drink together and

31:52

you'd get to this point and I'd

31:55

look at you and I'd be like,

31:57

oh no, because you would look through

31:59

me. Like you would not see me

32:02

and actually in retrospect it's like, you

32:04

know, it's like we're so lucky that

32:06

you didn't get in any trouble or

32:09

you didn't get hurt or... It's really

32:11

scary. It's really scary. It's really scary.

32:13

And like... And like... And not everybody

32:15

has that when they drink. No, no,

32:18

not at all, not at all, but

32:20

you would it was lights are out

32:22

lights are on and no one's home

32:25

and I would talk to you and

32:27

you would honestly not you'd be looking

32:29

over there and you sort of go

32:32

a bit cross-eyed and which is fine

32:34

and it was just I don't know

32:36

it was it yeah it wasn't right

32:39

was it no it wasn't right and

32:41

I think that because I remember that

32:43

because the thing is it was so

32:46

difficult as is for any situation when

32:48

anyone stops drinking is that you were

32:50

really fun to a certain point yeah

32:53

and I think that's where it's tricky

32:55

yeah and I remember being like this

32:57

isn't right but obviously there's so many

33:00

people around you being like no cag

33:02

you're so fun like come and have

33:04

another drink and then your I was

33:06

there being like oh God, who's going

33:09

to be the one fighting team. Me

33:11

in getting you in a cab to

33:13

go back to your dad's and where

33:16

we'd always stay. You couldn't remember your

33:18

ping pong to your taxi. We'd have

33:20

taxis coming to your poor dad's house

33:23

ringing the doorbell the next day. I

33:25

dropped your daughter and her friend. They

33:27

didn't have any money. No, it was

33:30

awful. So I guess it was like

33:32

blackouts, right? But it was walking, talking,

33:34

fully animated. But that's what was so

33:37

weird is that you were so weird.

33:39

You actually almost seemed barred not being

33:42

with it and looking a bit not

33:44

with it. You seemed kind of fine.

33:46

Like you would totally press, like you

33:48

were physically, you weren't like falling, you

33:50

didn't get pissed. That's what was so

33:52

weird. Wasn't sloppy. No. Never. Which is

33:54

very strange. Yeah. And I guess that's

33:56

probably the... biggest contributor that brought me

33:59

to that point where I was like

34:01

I really needed to just I call

34:03

it like a period of self-inflicted exile

34:05

where you're like I need to just

34:07

remove myself because I also don't you

34:09

you wouldn't feel good like hung over

34:11

like it mentally yeah I'd be a

34:13

bit hung over and I'd be like

34:16

oh we're kind of a burger shock

34:18

and you'd be like sort of in

34:20

turmoil for weeks yeah yeah yeah so

34:22

I think really actually looking at your

34:24

sort of woo journey it was the

34:26

best thing ever for you. But at

34:28

the time, what do you think? I

34:30

think when you started like talking about

34:33

the moon and stuff, I was, I

34:35

was... The thing is, I think knowledge

34:37

is power and I don't think I

34:39

really knew, I was a bit kind

34:41

of like, okay. But I can't. She's

34:43

like, I come over and she's like,

34:45

all her crystals out and I'd be

34:48

like, Christ, did she gonna sacrifice me?

34:50

What's going on? But it was also

34:52

very... different. It was really different because

34:54

you were quite early like now I

34:56

think there's so much of it around

34:58

you know lots of people are really

35:00

in tune with the universe like now

35:02

I'm literally like right look for a

35:05

sign let for a sign and my

35:07

step my sister-in-law don't forget is you

35:09

know she's a health coach and she's

35:11

you know she's very into like everything

35:13

astrology and crystals and you know so

35:15

I think that That opened my mind

35:17

a bit. I do think people are

35:19

scared of what they don't understand and

35:22

what they don't know. It's not like

35:24

a rude thing. It's not like I

35:26

was thinking, oh God, like I just

35:28

kind of was, I didn't really get

35:30

it. But you were early for all

35:32

of it. And now obviously it's, there's

35:34

so, you know, you've raised so much

35:36

awareness talking about everything and and the

35:39

Saturn returns is like fascinating. And then

35:41

in terms of our friendship, because obviously

35:43

I think during that period it kind

35:45

of like we went off on different

35:47

cars, but then I have so many

35:49

people message me saying, you know, asking

35:51

to have more episodes or questions around

35:53

platonic love and friendship and stuff. Yeah,

35:56

I do. And I always reference us

35:58

because I... I do truly believe that

36:00

when there's that like love that is

36:02

not really to do with who you're

36:04

growing up with or where you're at

36:06

school, it's like... No, no. Wherever we

36:08

go to in the world, whoever we

36:10

become, we've managed to kind of like

36:13

find each other again. Totally. And it's

36:15

such a beautiful thing now because it's

36:17

like, still to this day that I

36:19

don't know really anyone else that knows

36:21

me like, you know me. Well even

36:23

it's so funny because it transcends any

36:25

time or distance and I know even

36:27

when I see you we have such

36:30

a like deep emotional connection where we

36:32

do know each other like a back

36:34

of our hands. You know like the

36:36

other day you hadn't told me something

36:38

and I laid eyes on you and

36:40

I knew I didn't let's get you.

36:42

No but I didn't say anything because

36:44

I knew you were going to tell

36:47

me and you did and I said

36:49

it I knew it. And then... So

36:51

then he made a joke that I

36:53

won't repeat. But it's also your ability

36:55

to kind of see into my head

36:57

of the sort of dark, twisty thoughts.

36:59

Well, you were having a bad day

37:02

and I made a joke about you

37:04

walking in front of a car. Yeah.

37:06

But I know that you were actually

37:08

thinking that, because I know where your

37:10

mind goes, you know, but for the

37:12

record, I wasn't serious, but you know

37:14

when you're just like really in your

37:16

head and just in the feel. But

37:19

even when you ring me, I can

37:21

hear in your voice. sort of like

37:23

within the first 10 seconds whether there's

37:25

something that's and I know that sounds

37:27

like oh yeah of course you can

37:29

tell one of your oldest friends but

37:31

it's like no but I really know

37:33

yeah it's slightly different and it's the

37:36

same with you like it's you know

37:38

it's vice versa but we are very

37:40

lucky and to be able to go

37:42

through all these phases in our lives

37:44

and have held each other's hands and

37:46

sort of been there and electronic love

37:48

is amazing Like the joy and happiness

37:50

that I will feel when we are

37:53

together and when we are laughing hysterically

37:55

about all the terrible things that we've

37:57

done that I've done for you. Let

37:59

me do that. You know, that's really

38:01

magic. You know. And also how lucky

38:03

are we that we had that childhood

38:06

that was untouched by technology

38:08

and social media. We used

38:10

to write letters to each other. I

38:12

remember the letters we used to write

38:15

to all the boys in the aisle

38:17

of white. I was pen pals. And

38:19

we used to write each other letters

38:21

as well. I remember going to your

38:23

house in Putney and we'd have like these

38:25

little... post-it notes that we'd have on the

38:28

mirror of it, these little messages to

38:30

each other of like, us against the world.

38:32

I actually still think I have them

38:34

at my mom's house, us against the world,

38:36

you and me forever, all this stuff, but

38:39

it was so sweet and it was

38:41

so true. And then I wrote down all

38:43

the swear words and put them in

38:45

a pot and my mom found them

38:47

and was like, never write anything down

38:50

that you don't want to be read.

38:52

And I was like, oh my God.

38:54

That's really good advice. Yeah but then

38:56

when she came over my shoulder and

38:58

I was like 18 writing a list

39:01

of boys and she goes oh

39:03

darling you having a party

39:05

and it was all the boys

39:07

I'd ever slept with. You were

39:10

old and 18. I think I was

39:12

like 25. She was wrong. No yeah

39:14

yeah I was much older I think

39:16

I was at you knew so last

39:18

summer. What would you say if you

39:21

had to, like, of our eras, was

39:23

the one that you look back on

39:25

most fondly? Funny enough, I think

39:27

it's something that transcends all

39:29

eras and it's any time we're

39:32

in sea of you together and

39:34

you'll message me and we have

39:37

this, there's this alleyway called Dogshire

39:39

Alley, but anyway there's this alleyway

39:41

and we sit at the end

39:43

and it's our spot and there's

39:46

a step and you message me and

39:48

that our spot. And then I'll

39:50

walk down and we'd have a

39:52

diet Coke and back in the

39:54

day we'd have a SIG. They're

39:56

like, yeah. Hey, you fancy. And

39:59

it was... And that I feel

40:01

like is somewhere that we consistently

40:03

will always have no matter what

40:05

happens, which we're extremely fortunate to

40:08

have. That's very true. And I

40:10

think we both like being by

40:12

the C. Who doesn't? But also

40:14

that spot, you're right, because Stevie

40:16

in itself has this ability to

40:19

make everything else. It just brings

40:21

perspective. If you're like all that

40:23

other stuff, all the trivial things

40:25

that I was worrying about, just

40:27

don't. No. But also that specific

40:30

area. It hasn't changed at all.

40:32

No. But yeah, year on year,

40:34

decade on decade, like we do

40:36

and our lives unfold. And then

40:39

we've kind of brought back to

40:41

that same space. And it's like

40:43

kind of like no time has

40:45

passed, which is really special. I

40:47

feel so lucky. We've got something

40:50

really mega and we always have

40:52

me and you, me or fat

40:54

psychic. That summer of freedom when

40:56

we finished school yeah yeah yeah

40:58

yeah had the car we had

41:01

the car we had London and

41:03

we also had the Isle of

41:05

Wight and we were just yeah

41:07

it was great I basically moved

41:10

into your house and partner I

41:12

don't know why I just yeah

41:14

just did just did why not

41:16

that was it was really good

41:18

but yeah they're so funny but

41:21

I look back and I'm like

41:23

Phil joy and happiness about those

41:25

years. I'm not like, oh I

41:27

would do it all over again

41:29

because I actually feel like we're

41:32

both in really good places where

41:34

we are now, which is quite

41:36

a nice thing to sit and

41:38

say. 100% Because I've done moments

41:41

where we haven't for sure. What

41:43

as in in ourselves? Yeah. The

41:45

people that are growing up in

41:47

this time, what would your advice

41:49

be? Get off TikTok. Live. There's

41:52

a lot of pressure on children.

41:54

And I think that everyone has

41:56

to grow up really fast. And

41:58

I'm so conscious of that with

42:00

my kids. I'm like, no, no,

42:03

let's preserve that innocence as long

42:05

as we can. Obviously, in a

42:07

realistic way, I'm not going to

42:09

be sort of like doing something

42:12

weird when Trix 20 and press

42:14

feeding him. No, but I think,

42:16

yeah, I think that be nice

42:18

to yourself, for God's sake, which

42:20

actually is something I should have

42:23

been doing for a lot longer

42:25

than I have. And what about

42:27

friendshipships friendships. like advice for people

42:29

that may be kind of dealing

42:31

with change in direction or shifts

42:34

in friendship groups. I definitely think

42:36

our guts are underrated and I

42:38

think if something or someone doesn't

42:40

feel right it probably isn't but

42:43

that takes age and time to

42:45

sort of recognise and learn I

42:47

do think but I like God

42:49

we used to have I mean

42:51

I've now got friends probably I

42:54

can count on two hands and

42:56

before Oh, it was exhausting. Like

42:58

a full-time job. Sitch a full-time

43:00

job. But I loved it and

43:02

I had so much fun, but

43:05

I definitely know who there's like

43:07

mutual love and respect and support

43:09

and those that I could really

43:11

count on now. And I think

43:14

when we were younger, you mistake

43:16

a lot of that and you

43:18

will be there for people who

43:20

perhaps will not be there for

43:22

you. But again, that comes with

43:25

growing up, learning. Maybe some heartache,

43:27

maybe some pain, but you'll work

43:29

out. Trust your gut. And for

43:31

those that would be interested to

43:33

potentially get a poem with you,

43:36

or to read some of your

43:38

work, where can they find you?

43:40

Jack out my Instagram, Pinky Studio

43:42

by Tally. And yeah, inquire on

43:45

my website, and that's chat, but

43:47

I'm going to keep sharing more

43:49

of my personal stuff as well.

43:51

Keep myself canceled. I started making

43:53

reals. God, I think I'm the

43:56

oldest woman on Instagram. I actually

43:58

took me about a four day.

44:00

I used to make one the

44:02

other day. No. You are awful.

44:04

You. Well, you're just not, it's

44:07

like you sort of like born

44:09

in the wrong era, like social

44:11

media is like, because obviously it's

44:13

amazing for like work and stuff,

44:16

but you're not technologically, you're not

44:18

gifted. But the world needs to,

44:20

you know, hear everything you've got

44:22

to say and should be. I

44:24

find it a really tricky media.

44:27

I mean, thank God for podcast

44:29

long. Yes. Yeah, I can't communicate.

44:31

You're the kind of person who

44:33

would like take a picture of

44:35

yourself in the dark and then

44:38

put it off and we'd be

44:40

like, we can't see you. I

44:42

think my first ever Instagram was

44:44

a picture of a packet of

44:47

walkers. 100%? I'm surprised it wasn't

44:49

who loops. Who loops in an

44:51

avocado? They're having a good comeback

44:53

in my world. Yeah, on real.

44:55

Yeah. No, well I'm so proud

44:58

of you and all you've achieved.

45:00

Thank you so much for coming

45:02

on the show. I've loved this.

45:04

Me too. I feel like we

45:06

need to do it again. We

45:09

can. I'd love that. Maybe we'll

45:11

do an X-rated version. After hours.

45:13

Yeah. Thank you for listening to

45:15

this episode of Saturn Returns. I

45:18

hope you enjoyed it. And if

45:20

you want to check out Talley's

45:22

work, head to Pinky Studio.co.uk where

45:24

you can find the services that

45:26

she provides and testimonials. And yes,

45:29

I hope that you found this

45:31

episode as enjoyable as I found

45:33

having it. So thank you so

45:35

much for listening and as always

45:37

remember, you were not alone. Goodbye.