0:00

At Merrow West Credit Union we're

0:02

working towards a brighter a future for

0:04

both our members both our community and

0:06

our that when you succeed that all

0:08

succeed. Let's get acquainted

0:10

with our get savings for new

0:12

members, now paying over new

0:15

times the national average. Another

0:17

great reason to move your

0:19

money to a credit union.

0:21

Learn more at merrowwest .com slash

0:23

premiere slash Premier Savings. Credit Union

0:26

working for you for you. tomorrow,

0:28

together by by See you A. I hope I

0:30

hope everybody has a lovely Christmas. Now

0:32

I know I said be be

0:35

releasing a new episode today regarding

0:37

an unresolved murder from Glasgow

0:39

in 1985, in 1985. However, I've I've been

0:41

struck down with my annual obligatory,

0:43

-long illness, throat infections, chest infections

0:45

and asthma problems, So so I've

0:47

not been able to do

0:49

any work or research, so instead is

0:51

episode is one that I

0:54

recorded on the UK True Crime

0:56

Podcast with Adam back in

0:58

October, along with Paul from podcast and

1:00

Naomi from the Real Podcast. It's just a It's just a

1:02

roundtable episode recorded back in October. might

1:04

You might have already heard it on Adam's

1:06

show, but but I thought I'd play it

1:08

here as well. well. I I hope everybody

1:10

has a lovely a year when it

1:12

comes around, and we'll be back in

1:14

February with new episodes. episodes. At Merowest

1:16

Credit Union. We're working towards a

1:19

brighter a future for both our

1:21

members and our community, knowing

1:23

that when you succeed, that we

1:25

all succeed. we Let's get acquainted

1:27

with our premier savings for new

1:29

members. Now paying over times

1:32

the national average. Another great reason

1:34

to move your money to

1:36

a credit union. to Learn more

1:38

at merrowwest .com slash slash Premier Merrow

1:40

West Credit Union working for you.

1:43

Today, Today, tomorrow, together, by by See

1:45

you, A. Hello and welcome welcome

1:47

to Crime Podcasters around table

1:49

October. My name's Adam. I'm the

1:51

host of host of Crime True Crime I'm joined

1:53

by my usual co -host, Paul, from the

1:56

True Crime from the Hello, Paul. Enthusist.

1:58

Hello, Paul. I I'm Adam. Dawn, Naomi,

2:00

I see you all. And we got

2:02

two fantastic guests this month, really excited

2:05

to meet them both. Firstly, Dawn, the

2:07

host of Scottish murders. Hi Dawn. Hi,

2:09

Adam. Hi, Paul. Hello, how Naomi? Hi,

2:12

Dawn. Okay. And of course, you know,

2:14

Naomi, because you did a special together

2:16

a while ago, didn't you? Yeah, we

2:18

did. We did a good one. We

2:21

did a good one. We did a

2:23

good one. And we did a good

2:25

one. We did a good one. We

2:28

did a good one. We did a

2:30

good one. We did a good one.

2:32

The North and South collided on the...

2:34

I'm talking to which from God's Own

2:37

County Essex, Naomi, welcome. Hi, hello. Good

2:39

to see you. Thanks to joining us

2:41

this evening. So, the format today, we're

2:44

going to last for about an hour.

2:46

Thank you everyone for joining us live.

2:48

Really appreciate your time this evening. Let's

2:50

start off with a subject that we've

2:53

all brought to the table tonight. Should

2:55

we go to Naomi first? At Merowest

2:57

Credit Union, we're working towards a brighter

3:00

financial future for both our members and

3:02

our community, knowing that when you succeed,

3:04

we all succeed. Let's get acquainted with

3:06

our Premier Savings for new members, now

3:09

paying over 20 times the national average.

3:11

Another great reason to move your money

3:13

to a Credit Union. Learn more at

3:15

Merowest.com/Premier Savings. Merowest Credit Union, working for

3:18

you. Today, tomorrow. Together, insured by Insurg.

3:20

So something that has come about, probably

3:22

in the last year I've noticed more

3:25

is that the safeguarding of my own

3:27

listeners. So in my day job I

3:29

work as a TV producer and we're

3:31

very very regulated by Offcom and by

3:34

other charities where we, if we have

3:36

a contributor on the show. for example,

3:38

so I've produced some true crime content

3:41

and some other reality shows that maybe

3:43

watched or haven't watched, we weren't talking

3:45

about those, but they, we have

3:47

a real duty

3:50

of care to the

3:52

people that we

3:54

have on our shows.

3:57

as well well as

3:59

that, we also have

4:01

a duty of

4:03

care to the public,

4:06

to so obviously Ofcom

4:08

regulates us. very

4:10

strictly us very strictly podcasting,

4:12

I know we've got a

4:14

moral know ethics code that... and

4:17

Some of code that some of us follow

4:19

and some don't. But I have have

4:21

noticed that I have had a

4:23

real influx of listeners who contact

4:25

me on social media and they

4:27

really open up and they'll share

4:29

experiences and it's usually off the

4:31

back of an episode off the back of an

4:33

episode. example if I've done one

4:35

on if I've done one on stalking, as

4:38

of stalking then I will, I it's usually a a

4:40

that I will get some listeners come and

4:42

say, you know, you know, God, I, that that was, that

4:44

was really hard to listen to because I was

4:46

a victim of stalking or maybe it was,

4:48

if there was domestic violence involved in the case,

4:50

you know, they might say, oh goodness, you

4:52

know, that, a that really brought it home for

4:54

me. I was a victim, that, that really brought it home for

4:57

me, I was a victim, I really noticed really

4:59

important it is to it

5:01

of safeguard the listeners. And

5:03

I know that we all

5:05

put warnings all our episodes on

5:07

trigger warnings, et cetera. But

5:09

I just, I wondered what

5:11

everyone else does because I have

5:13

so far so far have made always I

5:16

will talk to every single

5:18

person person that messages and them, them given

5:20

time to listen to our to our

5:22

so I wanna give them

5:24

time back. them time also knowing when,

5:26

when you know. you can leave a a

5:28

sympathetic ear but there have been

5:30

a few times where people have disclosed

5:32

really serious situations that I wouldn't

5:34

be equipped to professionally help that I know

5:36

I try and then be them to

5:39

an organisation and I just wondered

5:41

if that was something that happens across

5:43

the board and if so how

5:45

do you how do you handle that?

5:47

if that was something that That's

5:50

a really good question, isn't it? Paul, what do

5:52

you think? how do you how do you handle

5:54

that? For that, for like Miami, I think

5:56

I've been approached in the past the

5:58

past by family men. members of

6:01

of victims of cases that

6:03

discussed and one

6:05

specifically that I covered a a

6:07

couple of years ago

6:09

in the case of of Guppian

6:11

multi the railway killers all right so

6:14

case case not only was I Not

6:16

only was I approached by

6:18

one member victims families who complemented

6:21

on the the tone of it,

6:23

but somebody also got in touch

6:25

in well. as well believe it's someone

6:27

we met, I don't know, we

6:29

met show. live show, I won't name any

6:31

any names or anything, but who claimed

6:33

claimed that his been

6:36

a victim of been a victim

6:38

of as well, and he was as well

6:40

from was quite shot from here

6:42

in the tail. what I could and he

6:44

about it. could do about it, and I was at

6:46

a bit of a loss. and the only The

6:48

only thing said to him was totally honest, I

6:50

said, the only thing you only thing you

6:52

can do is to your local

6:54

police police report list. it's doubtful

6:56

that anything would get

6:58

done because of lack of length

7:01

of time about it. I of time about it.

7:03

I don't think she was sexually

7:05

assaulted or like that, I think. that. I

7:07

think nearly well, From the

7:09

sound of the description it was, it

7:11

was more kind. But that's the best.

7:13

And you do feel that

7:15

do feel a that helpless like sounds

7:18

a bit of it sounds a bit bit of

7:20

a brush off of just and tell

7:22

the police police. else do you do

7:24

there is no other facility in

7:26

place in place to deal deal with

7:28

something like this. this is there and yeah

7:31

so it does happen and does

7:33

happen I can do all I can do

7:35

be just be honest and speak

7:37

to someone so friend of mine had

7:39

come had come and put that to

7:41

having a while we're something

7:43

like that or something like that but

7:46

yes I think what brought home to

7:48

me to me was that the that

7:50

we cover. we cover how far they

7:52

do reach may unlock something someone, they

7:54

ring home to a lot

7:56

of people and and with

7:58

kind of it. of... If that brings

8:01

things to the fore, that they might

8:03

have varied for a long time and

8:05

it helps them to be ready to

8:07

deal with them, then, you know, how

8:10

does that not spur you want to

8:12

just keep doing what you do? Yes,

8:14

completely. Yeah, absolutely. It's hard, isn't it?

8:17

It's a, it's some of the, some

8:19

of the content that we cover is

8:21

obviously extremely dark and disturbing and potentially,

8:24

you know, they haven't. confronted it confronted

8:26

it maybe and that's happened a few

8:28

times as well so sometimes you might

8:31

be the first person that they disclose

8:33

something to and and that's that's that's

8:35

really tough really really tough it's a

8:38

really good point you'll meet oh sorry

8:40

sorry sorry go no you carry on

8:42

please no I was just gonna say

8:45

it's a good point it was brought

8:47

to my attention at the podcast show

8:49

back in me that um what I

8:52

always brought up about having to support

8:54

people that come on your show, especially

8:56

because they're, you know, if it's family

8:59

members or somebody involved in that case,

9:01

it can be affecting them. So that

9:03

was brought to my attention. It was

9:06

something that hadn't thought off. before, it's

9:08

just something I didn't think of. So

9:10

if I do have people on my

9:13

podcast that's to do with that case,

9:15

then I will sign post them to,

9:17

you know, if they want to speak

9:20

further about it, somebody else, because I

9:22

was saying I'm not qualified. But that's

9:24

another, I didn't think of, I don't

9:27

have anybody messaging me personally about stories,

9:29

but that's actually, you know, and I

9:31

guess that you brought that up with

9:34

something to prepare myself or so that

9:36

I can think on the story. that

9:38

depends on the story doesn't it the

9:41

next story that you pull out might

9:43

resonate with someone so much that they

9:45

think you know it's fancy too much

9:48

for bringing that the air you know

9:50

and I think I think if anybody

9:52

gets things worked with any of us

9:55

to do with stuff like that is

9:57

the testament to our research and storytelling.

9:59

I really do it. What privilege to be

10:02

kind of privilege to

10:04

be. one kind of the position. and

10:06

I find it one things about podcasting, and I

10:08

find it as well as I listen I

10:10

listen to, and I listen to a lot,

10:12

is that I feel very much that

10:14

the people I'm listening to, I feel like

10:16

I know them, because it's a very intimate

10:18

form of communication, right? right? Absolutely.

10:21

Right. You know, aren't you know, ear, And know, I've

10:23

listened I've listened to all of

10:25

yours. you've And all got such a all got

10:27

such a lovely tone and delivery,

10:29

which key, think is so key,

10:31

isn't it? Which you don't always

10:33

get. And I think people in Britain as

10:35

in they hear a British well, when they

10:37

hear a British voice. Sometimes when

10:39

they hear American voices, perhaps feel, you know,

10:41

they you know, they really feel

10:43

the distance or if they hear an

10:45

Australian voice, they'll feel the distance.

10:48

the But when it's right on

10:50

your your... on your and you could sound

10:52

like someone's someone's neighbour and yeah it's it is

10:54

yeah yeah, you're right. I think think

10:56

got have have a for it

10:58

though, haven't haven't you have to have

11:00

a part pack if you if your passion isn't

11:02

displayed in how you come across how you

11:04

come across why would bother getting in

11:07

touch with you? in touch Let's have

11:09

the same thing with the same thing with like

11:11

some shows that themselves as

11:13

true crime and comedy. comedy

11:15

personally, anybody anybody who themselves

11:18

as comedy is about

11:20

as funny as being

11:22

bank is about as funny as being

11:24

bank frauded, I think, it quite

11:27

obscene that the two

11:29

things obscene that the two things

11:31

are mold it into one. one.

11:33

Like, like, it's not a funny

11:35

subject. It's the it's the

11:38

most devastating at least someone.

11:40

to at least someone. So,

11:42

you know, how do you you make a

11:44

mockery that? that? So that was was

11:46

That was actually my question That

11:48

was actually my question, to Paul, and I

11:50

wanted to to know it's nice to know

11:52

your thoughts now, but I was gonna ask

11:54

your your opinions were on podcasts that that actually

11:57

do have humour in them in them because I

11:59

first started out, out I did it with my

12:01

sister initially and it was never a

12:03

comedy podcast but it was she would

12:05

it was never joking about the victims

12:07

it was always respectful but she would

12:09

inject a little bit of room and

12:11

I remember to have a laugh not

12:14

about the victim but about situations and

12:16

things like that and it seemed to

12:18

a lot of people seem to like

12:20

that kind of thing it didn't sit

12:22

well with me so when she said

12:24

she didn't want to do the podcast

12:26

anymore obviously I was heartbroken but yeah

12:29

at the same time because I got

12:31

to do what sat well with me

12:33

which is you know I don't there's

12:35

no jokes there's no humor but um

12:37

people did say that they enjoyed that

12:39

side of it and obviously there are

12:41

podcasts out there that are humorous as

12:43

well. So what are your thoughts? Is

12:46

there a way to do it that's

12:48

not disrespectful? Because a lot of comedians,

12:50

they have got podcasts and they do

12:52

true crime. Does that work? Should it

12:54

just be comedians or should it not

12:56

be at all? What's your thoughts? Oh,

12:58

come on, Amy. What do you think?

13:01

Just think they are two genres that

13:03

should just never mix. Because it's, you

13:05

know, that is, so we're all somebody's...

13:07

child where all somebody's friend, if some

13:09

of us have children, the thoughts of

13:11

them, there is a popular podcast. Now

13:13

I'll never, I'll never name names, there's

13:15

a popular one where there are some

13:18

really inappropriate things and I've read their

13:20

reviews and people are picking up on

13:22

it now, there's some really tasteless jokes

13:24

and also just really bad times, you

13:26

know, they're halfway through describing something that

13:28

is utterly horrific and then something will

13:30

come in and then they'll be laughed

13:33

at and it feels so jarring to

13:35

hear that because you just if you're

13:37

an empathetic person which actually I think

13:39

so many true crime listeners are I

13:41

think we have a lot of sympathy

13:43

and I know that every time I've

13:45

done an episode where there's been a

13:47

call to action so if I've had

13:50

someone's loved one on and there's a

13:52

petition for example or there's a go-fund

13:54

me or something my listeners

13:56

have really got behind

13:58

it. And I've

14:00

seen that empathy play

14:02

out and that play

14:05

out and that sympathy and to think

14:07

that somebody would make light of

14:09

that. It's also, I I remember,

14:11

there was one sister and I said thank you

14:13

I said, thank you so much

14:15

for letting me sort of cover

14:17

the story. I said does said, does anyone

14:19

else ever approach you? and And

14:21

someone else had, but it was

14:23

someone who did their their makeup? whilst

14:25

telling the story. there is And there

14:28

is obviously an audience for it

14:30

because the viewing figures are incredibly

14:32

high. and It's not to not not in at any person

14:34

at any person because most of the

14:36

time, you know, the respect is there

14:38

and the tone and delivery, delivery like

14:40

but. I say is okay, but the thought of

14:42

putting on on the scarra talking about

14:45

somebody being tortured, tortured or or you

14:47

know, the police doing something wrong

14:49

and the family family in this

14:51

horrible limbo for a long

14:53

time, it just doesn't add up

14:55

for me. doesn't add up for me so yeah

14:57

I think Paul I really strong about this.

14:59

I think we should name

15:01

names I mean we should name names I mean my

15:03

kit telling stories. It's well out

15:05

of order. stories it's well out of order is

15:07

there? What I'm always amazed with with

15:10

he's doing that doing to put he

15:12

on and tell a story

15:14

while he's doing that. a story

15:16

while doing never in my life met

15:18

a woman my life met who doesn't

15:20

need to do that who doesn't need

15:22

to do that When the point of

15:25

a pioneer. a pioneer Wow, he's

15:27

probably not listening now watch him. I my

15:29

Adam is easy so makeup shopping or I've spent nights with

15:31

you Paul. about you Paul? Come

15:33

on. I've spent nights with you.

15:35

That sounds wrong, doesn't it?

15:38

I spent time in the the

15:40

with you And yeah, you're you're a

15:42

funny guy. as Mike, right? right? your view on

15:44

comedy in on comedy in true

15:46

crime podcast? At Merrill West Credit

15:48

Union, we're Credit Union, a working

15:50

towards a brighter financial future for

15:52

both our members and our community, that

15:54

knowing that when you succeed, we

15:56

all succeed. Let's get acquainted

15:59

with our safety. for new members, now

16:01

paying over 20 times the national average.

16:03

Another great reason to move your money

16:05

to a credit union. Learn more at

16:08

merowest.com/Premier Savings, Merowest Credit Union, working for

16:10

you. Today, tomorrow. Together, insured by NCUA.

16:12

failed miserably. The only thing being Joe

16:14

Pesce, as we're about the same size,

16:17

but I think humor in shows, I

16:19

mean, over the years I've been, I've

16:21

had a lot of people and what

16:23

one of the logos might, my show

16:26

I have T-shirts with on, is a

16:28

shamble of bollocks, which I happen to

16:30

sort of say one day, but I

16:32

speak on my show as I would

16:35

do if I wasn't recording. So I'll

16:37

say things like... But I'm talking about

16:39

someone I've discussed like a criminal who's

16:41

been really stupid I'll say almost to

16:44

myself said your mom must have been

16:46

a weightlifter to raise a fucking dumbbell

16:48

like you and people just latch onto

16:50

that they love it you know and

16:53

there are all sorts of things I

16:55

think something else I said many years

16:57

ago was discussing bad choices in partners.

16:59

I think I said I'm not Bruce

17:02

Lee, but I've entered a few dragons

17:04

in my time and stuff like that.

17:06

Do you know what I mean? And

17:09

I think something like that. If it's

17:11

not at the expense of a victim

17:13

or anything, I think that's fine, you

17:15

know, but always show the respect and

17:18

stand by my reviews with all that.

17:20

You can have a bit of form

17:22

and a bit of light, but time

17:24

in a place and a place. that

17:27

stuff gets into it. Time is K

17:29

isn't it? Probably. It's yeah, yeah, absolutely.

17:31

Well it's interesting I reckon I used

17:33

to try and tell not

17:36

not very funny as you

17:38

you know but I'm

17:40

I'm not very funny

17:42

but I used

17:45

to try and tell

17:47

a lot of

17:49

jokes early on of

17:51

I got into all

17:54

these situations so

17:56

for example I did

17:58

one case about I

18:00

did one a it's a Rochdale

18:03

I still I still half

18:05

joke it now but

18:07

I feel more

18:09

and more uncomfortable about

18:12

it every time

18:14

whereas some guy actually

18:16

forced his his go

18:18

to this sauna

18:21

in Rochdale in Rochdale have

18:23

lots of experiences there that she didn't want

18:25

to have. she I mean, to have. I mean

18:27

it's... it's It's really, really awkward,

18:29

but yeah everyone's always saying to to

18:31

me, watch Del Sauners and all the

18:34

rest of it. And it and I don't know it's

18:36

know, it's really and And this was probably

18:38

five, six years ago, this ago this this first

18:40

and I feel more and more

18:42

uncomfortable about it. about it time.

18:44

and I think I I think that's how it is

18:46

how it is, though, isn't it? Because

18:48

it's especially if you're covering a murder case, case

18:50

it's the worst thing that's ever happened

18:52

to a family. family And who the hell

18:54

are we to be laughing and making jokes

18:56

about anything to do with that? outrageous,

18:59

really, with it? that? Is that really

19:01

just really, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

19:03

listened to all of you

19:05

and you and I wouldn't, I think, you know, I

19:07

say that any of you were

19:10

in that you were in that, that category.

19:12

There are some that just take

19:14

it quite far. far, and And

19:16

it's so uncomfortable.

19:18

Someone loved all to to it. to.

19:20

There's one that we, that we, this there's one

19:23

that we used to listen to that we used

19:25

to take the mickey out of in our

19:27

little I group, the it's called of in our little

19:29

and whatever it is, and they do Boozy Bazaar

19:31

and whatever it think it's a father do a

19:33

boy it's his and a boy and they do a

19:35

drink they they do a bizarre thing

19:37

and a murder. thing and a me, it just

19:39

blows my mind how anyone, one, think

19:41

that's a great idea. can And two,

19:43

how the hell would you listen to

19:46

that? and two, how the hell would you

19:48

listen to listen to that? Is it? There's

19:50

no no packing whatsoever. that's just

19:52

that's reaching onto the same same as

19:54

people putting makeup on. telling

19:57

true crime. True crime is massively,

19:59

it it is job. that will never

20:01

ever die. I don't

20:03

think happens every single

20:05

day. new is new is

20:07

happening. as the the the rest of

20:09

you like myself will of you, tales

20:11

myself, of will have enough going that

20:13

you know of to keep you

20:16

going days if the end of your

20:18

days if you wanted to. never

20:20

sort of end sort of,

20:22

jump on that to that document

20:25

on Netflix everything

20:27

like that, they think, all right okay well, I'll

20:29

do this and I'll just put my

20:31

I'll on. put my All they care about

20:33

all they figures. doesn't have to

20:35

be anything accurate. figures it You have

20:37

to get them to there on

20:39

YouTube yeah that. I find that there

20:41

on really. like that I find that

20:44

quite obscene really no no no

20:46

But that brings us on another side. discussed this

20:48

meme poll quite a lot. I

20:50

wonder a you feel Dawn how you

20:52

me about it me about it is, so example,

20:54

I might see a case that

20:57

I that I might be covered in

20:59

the be in the tabloid as sex-starved, transvestite, murders, blah,

21:01

blah, blah. And I might cover it and call I

21:03

might cover it and call it

21:05

instead I might call it um take

21:07

know an awful tragedy just take

21:09

that that I

21:13

can't get the word out, that out of it.

21:15

And Dawn, I know I know with you,

21:18

you're very much much like that, aren't you? You're

21:20

not into the... No, sensational, no. No,

21:22

I think I'm quite quite bored in

21:24

with my titles. It's just it's always

21:26

about, no, it's always about the victim. It's

21:28

That was them, it's plain and simple.

21:30

There's There's no... No sensational,

21:33

it's why i'm not doing

21:35

really well why don't doing anything well,

21:37

because I don't to tell the

21:39

best no i anything. It's i'm

21:41

just going on? have the

21:43

passion for it, need it like

21:46

that. I'm just... I a that's tell...

21:48

But why you'll always watch it.

21:50

passion course you will. Dawn, got don't you?

21:52

No, I want to. Yeah, I want to. And

21:54

that's why I me at all. That's

21:56

why I was on your

21:58

opinion about the joking one. in the episodes

22:00

early on. I always think, should

22:03

I? know, redo them with just me them with

22:05

just me want to know I don't want

22:07

to offend I think think that's the journey in

22:09

a little bit but no no, so it's, I

22:11

don't want want to or take away from the

22:13

victim that's away I think what you're doing

22:15

is right that's what that's interesting. When we

22:17

speak to Bob and doing is right, Adam. And really

22:19

old cases. And the reason they cover

22:21

really old and Ali, they're both history buffs

22:24

and know their stuff. But number two,

22:26

they don't offend anyone that's living. really old

22:28

cases, Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I

22:30

get Yeah, I get that. Yeah. So what about

22:32

you, because you what about

22:34

quite, Naomi, you cover you cover

22:36

quite up -to -date ones one sometimes.

22:38

So how, how is that for

22:40

you then? Because, as opposed to the

22:43

older ones. ones. Do you know

22:45

what, when you've had had a...

22:47

Because my career been in television,

22:49

which is all current and

22:51

up to date. think things

22:53

that I think intimidate somebody new

22:55

coming into this coming different

22:57

kind of job where you

23:00

don't have to approach people

23:02

cold to approach people in. go in. And it

23:04

was it was really nerve -wracking

23:06

in the beginning because I was

23:08

approaching people, but I've not I've

23:10

not had, I've either either been ignored,

23:12

which has happened a couple of

23:14

times, of which is fine, I just

23:16

think they're not ready. it's usually,

23:18

I'll only approach people. I'll for

23:21

a couple of reasons. for a couple

23:23

if there is something for

23:25

them if there is something for to if so if

23:27

I work if I do my deep dives,

23:29

for example, I'll think about

23:31

who's closest to them and if

23:34

they're not a potential suspect

23:36

or enabler in or missing person

23:38

or a death, or a death I'll

23:40

ask them them I'll say, what would

23:42

you like to get out of this

23:44

to get out of week? have got a

23:46

four a series coming out on a

23:48

missing man on a he's been

23:50

missing since July since July and

23:52

his mom his his contacted

23:55

me and they said

23:57

we have been recommended. your

24:00

podcast to do a bit of a

24:02

deep dive into it we're getting no

24:04

press. It was all ready to go

24:06

a couple of weeks ago and then

24:08

the mum had a was really struggling

24:10

with her son, you know, who's gone

24:13

missing. And so we put it on

24:15

pause and I give them full control.

24:17

So I give them all of the

24:19

episodes before. They can make any changes.

24:21

I will obviously fact check them and

24:23

they know that, you know, I've got,

24:25

you know, I teach journalism as well

24:27

one day a week and I have

24:30

to live by my, I teach ethics.

24:32

So I have to, you know, practice

24:34

what I preach. And so I just

24:36

make sure that every I is dotted,

24:38

every T is, done but maybe that

24:40

is from having a TV background and

24:42

a journalistic background it's it always feels

24:44

very current and actually like who was

24:47

who was selling it before I think

24:49

Paul it was you who said you

24:51

know you've had members of people's families

24:53

come and talk to you and I've

24:55

had that recently as well of quite

24:57

a few of my cases. One of

24:59

them was, sweet boy, Noa Donahou, who's

25:01

from Ireland, who was found in a

25:04

storm drain. That is an awful case

25:06

and they're fighting so hard to try

25:08

and get justice for him because the

25:10

police are framing it in a way

25:12

that they don't believe panned out. So

25:14

there's a lot of politics going on

25:16

behind the scenes. and I was quite

25:18

nervous to do it but so many

25:20

people in Ireland had written and said

25:23

you know please cover these cases you

25:25

know they just don't get enough mainstream

25:27

coverage and when I did I got

25:29

a just the most lovely message from

25:31

the family just saying we we don't

25:33

listen to anything but we had someone

25:35

listen to it for us and then

25:37

they said you really should listen to

25:40

it she's really talking very respectfully and

25:42

it was just that what made me

25:44

sad was that that they'd obviously had

25:46

experiences where this teenage boy and his

25:48

death hadn't been told sensitively and that

25:50

was that was really sad so I

25:52

think sometimes you know people

25:54

are going to talk

25:57

about cases and

25:59

it is the brutal

26:01

reality of when

26:03

you lose someone tragically

26:05

you will get you

26:07

will put into the press, press and

26:09

your becomes public knowledge. I think

26:11

if there are people like

26:14

us who can do it in

26:16

us who can do it and moral way

26:18

and put their victims victims at the

26:20

the centre and what I always

26:22

do is at every single

26:24

episode I'll put a tribute

26:26

to the victim. Whether it's gone

26:28

on on there. page I've seen that they

26:31

seen that they liked and they

26:33

they had smile and smile their they

26:35

loved their kids or you know

26:37

they were really thoughtful mom. I'll I'll always

26:39

make sure that there's something to

26:41

put in there so that lasting feeling

26:43

is not the way they would the

26:45

way actually the way they it but actually

26:47

the a similar thing

26:49

I do a similar every

26:51

episode of dedicated every episode of mine

26:54

too. They didn't. Just in on

26:56

what you what you said I don't know,

26:58

I'm gonna I that in a want to

27:00

Example of someone getting in touch example

27:02

of someone getting in touch and a

27:04

bit of an easier reaction the case the couple

27:06

of years ago it a one that

27:08

was local to me where a father

27:10

was one bit killed himself me where

27:13

sons had killed himself

27:15

off. his three sons and for

27:17

each model. up the boy's mother and made

27:19

eldest son say goodbye to

27:21

him as he he gas all

27:23

in a by four. four. because

27:25

a lawnmower put on and on, local

27:27

to me there is local to me, where they

27:29

the spot where they a there's a

27:31

bench dedicated to, you know, him and all that I

27:34

covered this tale. A member of the

27:36

family got in touch with me as

27:38

soon as it was posted office.

27:40

I believe that you've posted this,

27:42

I've just seen just come up

27:45

on Instagram come up on and it

27:47

must have been it must have been It

27:49

was that quickly after the episode

27:51

was published. They They couldn't

27:53

have had time to listen to me, so I

27:55

got back on I I said on and I said, look,

27:57

you know, not of through up anything.

28:00

please just listen to the account

28:02

and then come back to me.

28:04

To be fair, within about an

28:06

hour later, the dead said, I'm

28:08

so sorry, I've listened to that,

28:10

that's very respectful, it was just

28:12

a bit of a shock seeing

28:14

this face up there, like that.

28:16

So it is, it's unbelievably raw

28:18

for some people. Yeah, isn't it?

28:20

You know, you know, you have

28:22

a bit of a responsibility if

28:24

you cover stuff like this, if

28:26

you cover it and put it

28:28

out. you know, you might as

28:30

well be, we're not kind of

28:32

guided by any guidelines or anything,

28:34

but you could be morally really,

28:36

really short, yeah. I take your

28:38

point, but I've, most of the

28:40

people that contact me are very

28:42

nice and say you've covered it

28:44

well, but I've had some, I've

28:46

had the opposite as well, I've

28:48

had people saying you take this

28:50

down straight away, it's about my

28:52

family members. The only idea is...

28:54

I mean, you're a journalist knowing

28:56

me, but back in the day

28:58

I was quite naive and I

29:00

had a guy and most of

29:02

it wasn't fact-checked, it's just somebody

29:04

told me all this stuff and

29:06

I said to him again again,

29:08

are you sure the rest of

29:10

the family were okay with this?

29:12

He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's

29:14

absolutely fine, I've chased him all.

29:16

And of course, when it went

29:18

out, I had four or five

29:20

family members saying, this is a

29:22

load of nonsense, take it down

29:24

now, And I learned a huge

29:26

lesson that day. Yeah, we all,

29:28

we, it's, it's part of the

29:30

process, isn't it? We're all human,

29:32

we're going to make mistakes now,

29:34

and yeah. I've had a family

29:36

member ask for an episode to

29:38

be taken down as well and

29:40

that's kind of why I've started

29:42

to gravitate more to the older

29:44

ones because yes they said it

29:47

was just so raw you know

29:49

they didn't it wasn't personal they

29:51

just didn't want him meant their

29:53

victim the family member mentioned at

29:55

all so they asked for the

29:57

episode to be taken down everything

29:59

social media everything they just didn't

30:01

all want to see it. his

30:03

face, his name, anything. So that

30:05

was quite, you know, you shouldn't,

30:07

initially I just kind of took

30:09

it personally because I didn't want

30:11

them to think that I had

30:13

done something disrespectful. You know, it

30:15

was a lovely, like you say,

30:17

it was a tribute. It was,

30:19

you know, I thought I'd done

30:21

a really good job, but it

30:23

wasn't about me. It was about

30:25

respecting the case once. Back early

30:27

days for me, and I'm sure

30:29

I, well I'm not sure, I

30:31

suspect it was the murderer, it's

30:33

an unsolved case. And this person

30:35

contacted me, he said in the

30:37

US, he knew this case when

30:39

he was in the UK. And

30:41

he told me load, load information,

30:43

he was desperate and he kept

30:45

emailing me four or five times

30:47

a day. And then as soon

30:49

as I covered it, his account

30:51

just disappeared. I just wonder, I

30:53

just wonder if he was the

30:55

person. You never going to know,

30:57

are you. Anyway, Paul,

30:59

what are you going to bring to

31:02

us today? Well, I was just going

31:04

to actually lead into some of the

31:06

questions that we've had here. A question

31:08

from Ben that we've got on the

31:10

comments is, for all those presenters, how

31:13

often do you get contacted about episodes,

31:15

is it regularly? It's not too regularly

31:17

for myself. I must admit. When I

31:19

do, they always go on a, I

31:22

say I've got famous list on my

31:24

fridge, that I add stuff to. It's

31:26

long gone from the fridge, but I

31:28

do have a working list of stuff,

31:30

it's about as long as I am,

31:33

but it's not as much as it

31:35

was a couple of years ago. I

31:37

mean, what about yourselves? I've just got

31:39

caught up with all my listener requests.

31:42

Usually I get them when we go

31:44

to events and people put in... requests

31:46

that way. I've had a couple of

31:48

emails but finally I have to list

31:50

as long as my arm and I

31:53

thought I'm never going to get through

31:55

all these requests but I've caught up

31:57

now so yeah. I've maybe couple

31:59

to go now. to

32:02

go now and so no of kind of

32:04

tilled it's not you much now.

32:07

It's manageable. as much now it's

32:09

manageable but you know me

32:11

you must get loads of You must

32:13

get loads of people contacting you, right? right it's

32:15

it's probably I mean today Wednesday's

32:17

because that's the day I release that's

32:19

the day I so I'll

32:22

I'll usually get, people will people

32:25

will usually listen and it will

32:27

remind them of another case. case And

32:29

then message. So today I've had So today I've

32:31

had about five and actually two of

32:33

them were the same which I

32:35

found really interesting. And both were very

32:37

similar to the case that I

32:39

covered in the episode I released today.

32:41

So I I of feel like sometimes

32:43

it's a bit of feel like sometimes

32:46

a bit of a effect and

32:48

it depends. I also think as

32:50

well, as well, often say, often say, there

32:52

there is a case that you'd

32:54

like me to look into, into, do

32:56

do let me know. I I

32:58

think maybe extending that invitation that has

33:00

meant that there is quite a

33:02

lot. mean, yeah, probably lot I to

33:04

10 a week. sort it's funny

33:06

how so many of them are so

33:08

same ones. are And it's usually

33:10

ones where usually knows. where

33:13

I ever get knows I never you

33:15

know, can you do know can do

33:17

You know, I you I've I've kids,

33:19

kind of. of well young kids

33:21

policy at the moment, it moment

33:23

it's just my head in too

33:26

much, but in too much but it's really it some

33:28

of those cases are ones that of

33:30

those cases are and never ever

33:32

heard of and then you look

33:34

into it and the case is absolutely case

33:36

is absolutely extraordinary. of And

33:38

one of those was Downs from Blackpool

33:40

and I and I did a

33:42

series series on that. And

33:45

I realized it was because the

33:47

case has been severely misrepresented in

33:49

a lot of tabloids. of And

33:51

when you go deeper, and actually you

33:53

was deeper and to do this one.

33:55

was a I was approached to do

33:57

this one and a member

33:59

of the far right got in

34:01

touch and that's not my bag so I

34:04

was like no and then they said well

34:06

we've got a whole list of documents that

34:08

we want to send you and I thought

34:10

I don't know if I want this and

34:12

then someone else that I did trust said

34:14

these documents are legit and they leaked all

34:17

these documents so I sort of had access

34:19

to this case and what I thought from

34:21

reading, you know, you read the the sun

34:23

or, you know, whatever, and you look at

34:25

the headlines and it was all about, you

34:28

know, Charlene Downes chopped up into kebabs, horrible

34:30

stuff, it was a teenage girl, you know,

34:32

and then you get to the real crux

34:34

of the story and like, wow, okay, that

34:36

is very different. The evidence is very, very,

34:39

very different. And now other people have picked

34:41

up on it, you know, been exposed for

34:43

doing things they shouldn't have done and unfortunately

34:45

she's still missing but it's it's quite nice

34:47

I think for us where we can take

34:49

cases that are underrepresented are getting no attention

34:52

when actually you know the families are they

34:54

they want to be heard they want to

34:56

be listened to and we can reframe it

34:58

and we can we can do it. I'm

35:00

not wholly other now, my goodness, no, there

35:03

are people who are, God I am, there

35:05

are some amazing podcasters out there and YouTubeers

35:07

who I'm just in awe of. And I

35:09

try and listen to them and try and

35:11

not copy their style, but I sort of

35:13

take words that they use and I think

35:16

that was really respectful, that really stood out.

35:18

So I think it's funny that the requests,

35:20

it would be funny if we all actually

35:22

looked at the requests that we all got,

35:24

I wonder if how many of those would

35:27

cross-reference with each other and cross-reference with each

35:29

other. see if there are ones that are

35:31

more requested than others and why it would

35:33

be a really good thing to do. That's

35:35

always my first question I get quite a

35:37

few as well and my first question always

35:40

is thank you ever so much really appreciate

35:42

it tell me what's your interest in this

35:44

case yeah you get some quite interesting responses

35:46

to that. What do you normally add them

35:48

off the back? It just varies. Often people

35:51

just live in the local area and they

35:53

just live in the

35:55

local area and they

35:57

say it's I don't know

35:59

I don't know what happened,

36:02

but often as well I

36:04

get people that have

36:06

been, have been, one guy

36:08

I can think of

36:10

recently I keep meaning

36:12

to do a I keep

36:15

meaning to do I'd love you to I'd love on

36:17

it. a 10 patter on it. He was. he

36:19

he was taken to court and he was

36:21

accused of the murder and he was

36:23

found innocent. innocent and he gonna take you to

36:25

the place, take I wanna show you, I I

36:27

tell you what really happened. I tell And

36:30

these things that all of us, and these three

36:32

here, we've all got real jobs as

36:34

well, real lives. real jobs as well real was a

36:36

full if if I was a I'd have been on

36:38

the train tomorrow been go and see him. to

36:41

go and see him that with

36:43

my camera camera person and done

36:45

the episode. Because there's so many fantastic

36:47

stories to tell. to tell and of the

36:49

stories that I cover as well,

36:51

I I a lot of people well I cover

36:53

of society last week the Edge case. week

36:55

I There was a guy, a case there was

36:57

a guy he's foreman, but he's also dealing

36:59

but he's And then he got ambushed

37:01

by a group of people by a group of

37:03

his and never been found. been found and

37:05

so some people so some people don't have

37:08

any sympathy for him, but actually I

37:10

do ID it's not not not his family

37:12

who are now left are these guys

37:14

had the issue with it was with

37:16

him with. least now. Please just tell them

37:18

now, please where the body is, right? where

37:21

It's been like 15 years, just tell

37:23

you what like 15 It's Just it? what

37:25

happened. It's gone, isn't it's

37:27

so sad. it's so but it's also sad,

37:30

isn't it? isn't it? you want to talk

37:32

about going to talk about

37:34

last this I was

37:36

torn between two, but between

37:39

two. What I discuss is the

37:41

3,000 3 ,000 prisoners been

37:43

been released in the

37:45

past, say, two two months try

37:47

and free up some try and

37:49

free up some of the overcrowding

37:51

in UK now. Some of these Some of

37:54

these people have been picked

37:56

up in Lamborghinis. they've been been

37:58

shouting hail, dama. as soon

38:00

as they released. Some of

38:02

them are openly admitted that

38:05

they'll be straight back in

38:07

because they're being released to

38:09

be homeless. You know, at

38:11

least one person was arrested

38:13

on the day he was

38:15

released for sexual offences. Other

38:18

people, the day they released,

38:20

have been pictured on Instagram

38:22

posing with people branched in

38:24

knives. He has starma apparently

38:26

said he fears the public

38:29

anger and Is this not

38:31

an absolutely bollock strategy? Or

38:33

what do you do instead?

38:35

I can see why it

38:37

has, because prisons are at

38:40

birth in point, aren't they?

38:42

They're operating, apparently I've got

38:44

like, on Saturday, about 99%

38:46

full, that they have less

38:48

than 2,000 places in the

38:51

UK for prisons, and then

38:53

they just had that rash

38:55

of... people imprisoned after the

38:57

South Port. I don't want

38:59

to say riots, protests, disturbance

39:01

in it. It was bordering

39:04

on riots, wasn't it? Would

39:06

you class it as riots?

39:08

What happened across the country

39:10

after Southport? In some places.

39:12

People were very violent, yeah.

39:15

Unrest distance. It's got a

39:17

few people sentences in the

39:19

nick, hasn't it, so what

39:21

I kind of... What wants

39:23

to get your thoughts on

39:26

is, well, what are your

39:28

thoughts on that? Are these,

39:30

these seem to be strategic

39:32

jailings rather than, you know,

39:34

there was a Tory councillor's

39:37

wife who's just gone down

39:39

for 31 months for posting

39:41

horrendous things on Twitter, but

39:43

as a Twitter post. But

39:45

conversely, last year, I fell

39:47

it in my locality. I

39:50

fell it in my locality.

39:52

committed the sexual assault and

39:54

was gone. for

39:56

reaching a restraining

39:58

order sending

40:01

horrendous messages to

40:03

his ex. And

40:06

he got months down. How

40:08

is that right? And What

40:11

are your thoughts? Oh, that's a great question.

40:13

Dome, what do you think? I

40:16

think that the, I

40:19

think I see what for example for the

40:21

rioters while they had to get large

40:24

sentences that's making and improving a point but

40:26

the fact that they're letting so many

40:28

people out of prison that shouldn't be getting

40:30

let out now to accommodate these ones

40:32

they need to find there needs to be

40:34

another solution When

40:36

they give back to the community that

40:38

they destroyed, do something other than just

40:40

putting them in prison and letting people

40:43

out, like shouldn't be let out. There's

40:45

got to be another way. And

40:47

then they also, I didn't read after that,

40:49

we heard that other prisons are almost full.

40:51

But then we heard after that, oh no,

40:53

the prisons are doing fine. We heard from

40:55

somebody up high oh no, they're absolutely fine.

40:57

I was like, just be able bit more

40:59

transparent. Tett and let's work together, there's got

41:01

to be. hiding things

41:03

is not working. But

41:05

the sentences just, it doesn't

41:08

seem to be any consistency,

41:10

is there, We to be being under

41:12

one. He's doing more

41:14

of that, I think.

41:16

That's my point. the probation

41:18

service is even more

41:20

overstretched than the prison service.

41:22

So, So, File on

41:24

4 did a podcast on

41:27

probation and how It's

41:29

just, it's, there are failings

41:31

all over the place. mean, there's

41:33

so many cases that I've

41:35

covered where a killer. has

41:37

been released and then probation

41:40

haven't, I'm trying to think, Janet

41:42

Scott was was a case

41:44

so she was oh

41:46

God, I'm just trying to

41:48

think of the man, the man's

41:50

name. He had killed Pearl

41:52

Black, his ex -partner, next to

41:54

where her two children were sleeping

41:56

in a fit of rage, he

41:58

was put into prison. for years

42:00

he got let out two

42:03

years early years early then he

42:05

went on to to stalk three different

42:07

women different women was

42:10

he was out he got

42:12

then he got into a

42:14

relationship with a mum

42:16

of six and he stabbed

42:18

her after stalking her for

42:20

months a then She managed

42:22

managed to fling herself out

42:24

of the car that he'd bundled

42:26

her into had come her

42:29

thrown herself out seeing a park

42:31

seeing a he was actually driving He

42:33

from her house to his

42:35

house her from her house to his house to

42:37

do good knows she was bleeding

42:39

very heavily from her stomach. heavily

42:41

from her the parking warden

42:44

was helping her, that

42:46

he rammed the car he

42:48

them both, the car she died

42:50

and the parking warden had

42:52

life warden had life-changing injuries he

42:54

was put back in. back in

42:57

and he's not only had Janet reported

42:59

him to the probation officer for

43:01

stalking offenses, just a few months

43:03

before that, Janet's daughter had been

43:05

so concerned that she had gone

43:07

to the probation officer and had

43:09

a face -to -face meeting a said, meeting

43:12

my mum at risk. my mum at risk? he'd

43:14

done things like things like he was...

43:16

moving things about in their kitchen for where

43:18

he would, you know, know, he moved the plates

43:20

from one cupboard to another because he liked

43:23

it, even though they were a family

43:25

of six of six, and that was you know, seven, you

43:27

that was their normal. that was their normal. And the

43:29

said, said, I think so, I think he's all

43:31

right, I think he's all right now. And

43:33

then he did that. that, And then, you

43:35

know, he was, to went to he wasn't he

43:37

wasn't suspended or anything like that. But that,

43:39

but... it really really highlighted how the probation

43:41

service, he said, look, I was so

43:43

overworked, and not that it's an excuse, but

43:45

just to quote him, I was so

43:48

over so overtired with of these people that I'm

43:50

trying to keep an eye on, keep and

43:52

I couldn't do it. do it And so I

43:54

think that the prison stuff is really

43:56

bad, but then we also have to look

43:58

at the probation service. service and we can't

44:00

then blame them if them. They've

44:03

We're actually, I think, I've read

44:05

that... But actually, I

44:07

think I've read that in

44:09

20, was about 10 years

44:11

ago. There were 22 ,000 there were

44:13

22,000 not all

44:16

of them officers but support staff

44:18

as well and now there's like a

44:20

third of that so it's as well. And

44:22

now there's like a third

44:24

of that. So it's crazy.

44:26

No, No, a good thing. I have two good

44:28

friends who are social workers

44:30

and... who cover like sort of around the

44:33

area where I live, live. And They've

44:35

said to me to me before could

44:37

spend could weeks their full weeks hours

44:39

of work. just in in the

44:41

office catching up on paperwork from the

44:43

week. That's without going out

44:45

for for visits and you know, wherever comes

44:47

in. in in the meantime.

44:50

They massively overstretched.

44:52

We're always going to get people who

44:54

slip through the cracks with through the cracks

44:56

with that hanging, you know. You up

44:58

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insured by NCUA. Yeah. John really

45:32

concerns me is over concerns

45:34

me few the next few

45:36

days, all the were saying papers

45:38

starmets, labour, releasing people, people the Tories in

45:40

in power be be the

45:43

left -wing press saying Tories, but

45:45

the the real question when

45:47

answering is is one, the recall

45:49

to prisons, as I to prisons,

45:51

as I understand it, is

45:53

about that of people that get

45:55

released. it's not because it's not the

45:57

Paul, that you were talking about.

45:59

about. average experience, somebody leaving prison. I

46:01

mean, they've got, they're thinking, is my

46:03

partner still going to see me?

46:05

Where's my bank account? Where am I

46:07

going to sleep tonight? These are

46:09

the things. Yeah,

46:12

this is the reality. I mean,

46:14

what are they going out doing? It

46:16

plays into Naomi's point about the

46:18

probation service. Yeah, look after these people

46:20

if we and so my issue

46:22

of prisons, okay, I think that we

46:24

send so many people to prison,

46:26

it's crazy. And in the riots, and

46:28

I think they were riots, and

46:30

I get it. The guy that I

46:32

think was in Southport is a

46:35

58 year old, he punched a policeman,

46:37

right? He went to prison for

46:39

three years, two right, other doubled it.

46:41

And I think about some of

46:43

the other people outside mosques or outside

46:45

hostels with, with, with immigrants that

46:47

are really causing issues, absolutely throw away

46:49

the keys far as I'm saying,

46:51

I don't care the less. But what

46:53

concerned men not saying it's right

46:55

or wrong, what concerned me is I

46:58

saw there was some idiots, some

47:00

20 year old girl, she threw a

47:02

shopping trolley at the police and

47:04

then collapsed, face collapsed on her, on

47:06

her head. She got 20 months.

47:08

I see other guys who like got

47:10

36 months. And the case this

47:12

week, I think for anxiety, I mean,

47:14

31 months for her, I, to

47:16

me, I think it's ridiculous. And I

47:18

think that as long as we

47:21

keep throwing all these people in jail

47:23

that don't shouldn't be in jail,

47:25

I'd give her not 31 months, I'll

47:27

give her 91 months working eight

47:29

to six in the community, picking up

47:31

litter, doing anything else. don't care

47:33

what she's doing. Stop sending them to

47:35

prison in prison. need to rehabilitate

47:37

our people, right? That's

47:40

what I know it means. Well, I'm sorry.

47:42

No, it was just, no, just saying that

47:44

was what know is me and the after

47:46

the riots, whatever you want to call them.

47:48

It was the community that was down tidying

47:50

up and picking up the mess and starting

47:52

everything out. It should have been them. They

47:54

should have been, these people should have been

47:56

made to come and give back to the

47:59

community. That's how I feel the same as

48:01

you. as you, Adam. No, to put in

48:03

prison. It's just an easy an

48:05

easy ride for, It's just, you know, a laugh,

48:07

isn't it? As far as I can see, it's

48:09

just a badge of honour. a badge of honor, and

48:11

out and they got away with it. I got away

48:13

with it. So that's what I said.

48:15

who smashed up say up,

48:17

say, let's say, Samport. Everyone who in

48:20

prison prison from Southport, who was

48:22

in riots there, there. than

48:24

than in them. Give them

48:26

the community order. As you say, first

48:28

say 31 months, right? spend

48:30

31 months every single

48:32

day. right? Repair in not

48:34

only what you've not only what

48:36

you've destroyed but up up

48:38

the you where you live get

48:41

that graffiti Get that tune button scraped

48:43

up there. Don't you like it? Such

48:45

shit. Shouldn't have that man, done that then,

48:47

don't a proper punishment,

48:49

I think proper punishment, I think, rather than

48:51

just. them as well. and shame

48:54

them as well. Or... Like, say, for

48:56

for example, the Tory councillor's

48:58

wife, who we just discussed in them,

49:00

right? So, punishment for her is for

49:02

her is, right, have a let's have a massive

49:04

it away let's say look

49:07

at the income of the the income

49:09

of the house, say, right, pound fine fine there,

49:11

what? Well, your Tory councillor, you

49:13

know, you obviously, you know, like

49:15

that, on the bones your your heart,

49:17

not living off of the bins on Pound

49:19

We'll have that you? So, so, we'll have that

49:22

fine You're working right. and you have to like

49:24

once a week or something go

49:26

and explain to her. to

49:28

people who are are genuinely in

49:30

need of help why you said what

49:32

you said proper punishment

49:34

like you said. then when them 91

49:37

like that and that is the

49:39

wrong kind of time that actually but of

49:41

time they're like people that

49:43

time is up our person is

49:45

have learned a will have learned a

49:47

lesson, won't will never want repeat that.

49:50

that humility. Destroy a

49:52

person to their fair shelf to

49:54

do not be done. done. But prison

49:56

is, to me, prison me prison

49:58

is where people are to... hurt you me

50:00

and our families should be

50:02

our families should be to be

50:05

but how can they how can they

50:07

be rehabilitated the staffing is is so

50:09

short because there's so many people

50:11

and then and like the solution

50:13

the lot of people is build

50:15

more prisons of like is

50:17

build more prisons I'm

50:20

like seriously build and they

50:22

will shut us down God of dreams

50:24

and they will come know you

50:26

know it It's really tough

50:28

isn't it? It's so tough. tough

50:31

you Paul? What's your way for your

50:33

view in it all then? Well what about

50:35

what about what about, what about

50:37

things like, human rights and all you

50:39

get to get into human rights and

50:41

all that like stops or about things like like

50:44

these time years ago? So like on the to

50:46

have years ago. get your feel

50:49

like on from the magistrate's from

50:51

committed heinous heinous who are clearly

50:53

guilty of them all.

50:55

them all. Put them in a stock.

50:57

Throw, you can't throw anything but roots.

50:59

Regulate all, all. sell tickets

51:02

for it, it. the

51:04

money money goes towards I don't

51:06

know. don't know, bigger prison

51:08

or... I tell you what I tell you what,

51:11

what thing thing it would go to. And

51:13

keep in my Mom's heating the winter,

51:15

the winter. be be pretty good. It just needs to,

51:17

it needs to more of a to be

51:19

more of a community it's the think

51:21

if the community is seeing

51:23

someone punished every week week on a

51:26

a Saturday I say, oh look at at

51:28

them wrong and it's like that.

51:30

like They feel better because they

51:32

they see being punished. Let's

51:34

go to prison, people think now, I've

51:36

talked to my mum about

51:39

this this yesterday and she said, oh,

51:41

said, oh, got a prison, it's

51:43

just a holiday for them. Some Some

51:45

people deliberately go there just

51:47

to get off the to don't

51:49

they? the get don't they? They can get spice, they've

51:51

got hellies, lot more. It's got

51:54

a lot a lot of people have. of a lot

51:56

of haven't committed who haven't

51:58

committed crimes. So, yeah. It was quite,

52:00

I can't remember what newspaper it

52:02

was, I think it might have

52:05

been the telegraph or something, they

52:07

were outside some of the prisons

52:09

when the first lot of prisons

52:11

were released early in September, and

52:13

I just, I can clearly remember

52:15

this video of a guy and

52:17

he was like, I'll be back,

52:19

they're not even going to give

52:21

my bed to anyone, he goes

52:23

because I've got no room to

52:25

go. So now, and he actually

52:28

was saying, they're so stupid, I

52:30

told him not to release me.

52:32

but now I'm going to have

52:34

to go and do something, you

52:36

know, to put myself back here

52:38

because I need to be warm

52:40

and I've got no family left,

52:42

you know, and it was, you

52:44

know, and he was in, I

52:46

looked at what he was in

52:48

for and it was burglary and

52:51

offences like that, nonviolent crimes and

52:53

it was just a real sad

52:55

state of affairs actually, isn't it?

52:57

And it is. We're crime podcasters,

52:59

aren't we? We see this sort

53:01

of crime all the time of

53:03

people who are desperate people who

53:05

are desperate. What was shocking with

53:07

me is that, so out of

53:09

those 3,000 that have been released,

53:11

right? 1% of them, 37 people,

53:14

have been wrongly released. And then

53:16

five of them still haven't been

53:18

recalled. So that's a disaster straight

53:20

away, isn't it? And they've done

53:22

it again on Tuesday, released another,

53:24

like, thousand plus. So it just

53:26

doesn't work, but then... I have

53:28

to say with a habitual burglar,

53:30

like I've been burgled on this

53:32

and the rest of you have,

53:34

but I have many years ago

53:36

and it's a horrible thing to

53:39

go through, but I wouldn't kind

53:41

of, if somebody burgled me, I

53:43

wouldn't be too happy at home

53:45

seeing my burglar being released early,

53:47

but no reason apart from a

53:49

political strategy. I think that's disgraceful.

53:51

It is. Let me go on

53:53

to my topic really quickly. So

53:55

all these podcasts, true crime podcasts,

53:57

true crime and drinking. What's all

53:59

that? about. No, you got a

54:02

glass of Pseco a what's all that about? per

54:04

second there. I this is the that

54:06

not working. Okay, disclaimer guys, this

54:08

is the one night I'm

54:10

not working is

54:12

off, week. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

54:14

yeah. I saw ironic because

54:16

the Scottish lady is

54:18

on the water. buy a second.

54:20

My night's off, so bollocks. And

54:22

it's ironic, because

54:24

the Scottish lady's isn't

54:27

it? water. Why it

54:29

all true crime and gene and and whatever it's

54:31

called? What's all that about, all that

54:33

seen that I've seen a few of

54:35

those that. I've seen few I can't remember it

54:37

wine, mean I can't remember. I

54:39

mean, maybe when you're you're listening to

54:41

it to cope, a cope, but just,

54:43

oh I'm I'm a bore, aren't

54:45

I? I, you know, you know. I

54:47

would get get wrong or I'd

54:49

say, I'd say something wrong or

54:51

wrong already get absolutely absolutely my

54:53

accent for my accident anyway. says I'm says I'm

54:56

like not everyone. One person wrote

54:58

me a review, four wrote me

55:00

other day. I keep bringing this

55:02

up, I'm clearly the other day, I keep

55:04

bringing this up I'm clearly

55:06

scarred. No, but they but

55:08

they Star because they said that

55:10

I sound that I sound

55:12

like Dawn from Gavin and Now

55:15

Now Julia plays her is from

55:17

the her is from the putting that

55:19

accent on. and she's putting that accent on.

55:21

girl, I'm getting compared to

55:23

a fictional one and I'm

55:25

being to a real I can't

55:27

help it. getting compared to

55:30

a fictional one and

55:32

I'm being Dr Star for

55:34

it. I can't help it. The

55:36

most unbelievable thing that most

55:38

unbelievable got in touch with me was, is I

55:41

me was, on a tale many years

55:43

ago, I mentioned, I was of many years

55:45

that I hit men and I said, normally

55:47

and I said, oh, it's

55:49

normally something films in films in

55:51

the UK fiction or something like that.

55:53

that. And I said, the mechanic, but

55:55

I said, talking about talking

55:57

about the original mechanic, the child

55:59

Johnson. not the remake with

56:01

Jason Jason Statham because me properly shit, right?

56:04

I can't say that, you can't say that, Paul, you know

56:06

say that about the that about the stage, right?

56:08

So, so of it. few a later,

56:10

someone got in touch with me

56:12

and said, I got in show. with me

56:14

brilliant, but I'm going to have

56:16

to stop listening to you now

56:18

because... but going is my favourite

56:21

actor. listening believe you've

56:23

said that about all of Statham is

56:25

my favorite actor, and I can't believe

56:27

you. How highly strong you my my

56:29

love. tell you tell you what,

56:31

miss me miss me I I

56:33

miss you. What about you Todd?

56:35

Have you about you Dodd? you got any like

56:38

we all have we all have or not? we've

56:40

we've totally got off your head. I

56:42

know but it's great idea. I know sorry.

56:45

I haven't really heard, no I haven't heard

56:47

haven't on the badge of I've been

56:49

I've been all I've been I've been

56:51

okay. Oh, so good. I've had

56:53

two brilliant ones in my life.

56:55

One was, ones in rather listen

56:57

to two cats fighting outside, which

57:00

I loved. fighting them recently, which

57:02

my wife And keeps her me

57:04

all the time. my wife still keeps but

57:06

he's in me all the time. So if

57:08

I'm okay, but he's in decline, but he's in

57:10

decline. I've very much thought that

57:12

for a long time. time.

57:14

Since me, you and have been

57:16

doing live shows, I live shows,

57:18

I've really... What's me, that was, review,

57:20

by the way. that review by the

57:22

about you, about had some

57:24

Paul? You must have had some shockers. Do you

57:26

know of I mean? know what I

57:28

mean, will get get on I

57:30

think like... But again, it might come it

57:32

might come from my bit of

57:34

you know, know. some of them would be be

57:37

one that in my mind mind the

57:39

time, time, is that... I say say

57:41

when I'm promoting patron

57:43

the show I show, I say

57:45

it's to sign up to,

57:48

out to, so simple to

57:50

do that to do that understand

57:52

it, like, could understand it. Now, now,

57:54

Diane Abbott, for me,

57:56

is me, is thick as

57:58

because fun. I mean... talking, fucking,

58:00

you know, hello, McFly, right? So I

58:03

had a review after that saying, great

58:05

show, black woman's gaming. Oh my God,

58:07

I can't believe. And I was like,

58:09

well, you're the only person who's brought

58:11

her skin color into me. I've not

58:14

mentioned that whatsoever. I've related to her

58:16

because she's fucking dense, that's why. And

58:18

then so stuff like that, that's it's

58:20

in my mind. Yeah, but I find

58:22

people can be. really fickle and if

58:24

you mispronounce one word or a place

58:27

name or something like that if you're

58:29

not from it my goal I think

58:31

why would you spend the time to

58:33

leave a review and not give constructive

58:35

criticism just juppily nasty it's just like

58:38

really I've only found some people I

58:40

certainly wouldn't do it to anyone you

58:42

can just you can just press stop

58:44

Yes, this is the thing and if

58:46

I... There was a really good one

58:49

I had the other day, I did

58:51

a club with Stuart Blues from British

58:53

Murders. Right, who, I've never heard of

58:55

him, have you been told? Never, never

58:57

thought to have enough. These sources profile

58:59

of it, you know, probably make him

59:02

talk a bit more. And he, we

59:04

did a club when he broke his

59:06

collarbone and he couldn't be asked to

59:08

research anything. So can you come on

59:10

and do one and say, what, what,

59:13

what, he couldn't be asked to recently?

59:15

No, I think he had a lot

59:17

of painkillers in his system and he

59:19

was a bit tired. So I came

59:21

on a dip one and then someone

59:24

left a review on his website. which

59:26

was weird anyway, and said, I used

59:28

to love your show, but now you've

59:30

done a episode with Peter Andre's best

59:32

mate. I lost all credibility. Can I

59:35

say that I produced one series of

59:37

Peter Andre's show 12 years ago? He

59:39

doesn't need to tell me about, he's

59:41

a lovely man, but I'm not

59:43

best friend but I

59:45

think what they've

59:48

done is they've just

59:50

I don't know

59:52

if maybe they had

59:54

a problem with

59:56

him and they just

59:59

want to have

1:00:01

a dig they've googled

1:00:03

my name it's

1:00:05

come up on IMDB

1:00:08

or some crap, and they've, thought oh a good

1:00:10

one, it's like what what's my

1:00:12

name Name it, I've got

1:00:14

to ask you. so sorry but you

1:00:17

work with loads I mean I mean, Keith

1:00:19

Lemon I've seen you posing with, if

1:00:21

that's the right word in the past. But

1:00:23

these guys, mean, mean audiences are tiny

1:00:25

compared to theirs. I mean, how do these

1:00:27

guys cope with it? Seriously, the feedback,

1:00:29

the negative feedback they get. How do they

1:00:31

manage it? it's you

1:00:33

know what? It's really, some

1:00:35

of them are targeted a

1:00:37

lot more than others. I I

1:00:40

think with with Francis, he's he's loved.

1:00:42

and I think, but also he's got a

1:00:44

really refreshing attitude. Like he just doesn't

1:00:46

care. He's all about his family. And every

1:00:48

weekend, instead of going to a celeb

1:00:50

party, he he like, oh, you know, I'll

1:00:52

just watch the goonies and that's his

1:00:55

favorite film. and he'll watch all the and

1:00:57

make stuff and he's got a man

1:00:59

cave. It's insane. He's got this amazing man

1:01:01

cave where he makes things. So he

1:01:03

kind of switches off. But one of one

1:01:05

someone someone like I am very close

1:01:07

friends with, because she gave me my first

1:01:09

job TV for no other reason

1:01:11

is Trisha Goddard who's you know she's

1:01:14

an icon you know the chap

1:01:16

show host Trisha you know and she

1:01:18

gets So much racism.

1:01:20

She gets so much hate.

1:01:22

People calling her desperate. This woman,

1:01:24

you know, she is so

1:01:26

kind. She's done so much for

1:01:29

mental health services through her

1:01:31

career. Yes, she had the Trisha

1:01:33

show and I did work

1:01:35

on the Trisha show I worked on

1:01:37

it when it was on channel and we

1:01:39

were quite strict with what we could

1:01:41

put out so it was very different to

1:01:43

Jeremy Carl and those kind of things

1:01:45

but it was, I've seen some of the

1:01:48

comments she gets and you know she

1:01:50

she with cancer and I remember that she

1:01:53

She sent me some things recently

1:01:55

that had triggered her. She'd

1:01:57

she'd on a daily file wherever

1:01:59

and looked at the comments underneath her and

1:02:01

they'd announced that she was covering Good Morning Britain

1:02:03

or something and she was like oh and

1:02:05

out already oh God they're out got so upset I

1:02:07

got so upset just friend and someone that she

1:02:09

you know she's helped me and so

1:02:11

many people in so many gave us a

1:02:13

chance a chance didn't have any TV experience

1:02:15

I was a fitness instructor fitness instructor and at

1:02:18

19 and I I desperately wanted to get

1:02:20

out and I wanted to work in

1:02:22

TV to work in I went and sat in

1:02:24

the audience sat in the and show and she I

1:02:26

asked her for a job and she

1:02:28

gave me one it was gave me one.

1:02:30

my whole whole foray. All my All my tell my students

1:02:32

I I tell my students I worked

1:02:34

really hard, but I did I did when

1:02:36

I was in but it was actually pure

1:02:38

luck. But she But she gave me a

1:02:40

chance, and she gave lots of other

1:02:42

people a chance. a People people really have

1:02:44

the money to go to have the me, to

1:02:46

go to university trained us up. then to

1:02:48

see, us up and then horrible horrible... trolls, you know,

1:02:50

know these are people with no faces

1:02:52

you know they're not brave enough

1:02:55

to put their faces their these comments

1:02:57

they've got these stupid got these stupid it's

1:02:59

just sickening and actually they're the same

1:03:01

people that comment on true crime

1:03:03

stories as well crime stories as know and, you

1:03:05

say really horrible and inappropriate things about

1:03:08

the victim or make jokes on

1:03:10

there so I guess it's all part

1:03:12

of the I guess same part know that

1:03:14

breed, but I definitely affects some people more

1:03:16

people more than sure for sure. It's It's horrible,

1:03:18

isn't it? It's a horrible It's a we've kind

1:03:20

of let world we've is, but I

1:03:22

think as It is, but I have to

1:03:25

accept that we are going to

1:03:27

get bad accept when I see some

1:03:29

to get bad reviews. And when I reviews and

1:03:31

make comments about it the I think

1:03:33

that's just comments got to just

1:03:35

accept that's just poor, on it? You've got

1:03:37

to just accept it. It happens,

1:03:39

move on. I'd share myself,

1:03:42

share a tech talk or an or an

1:03:44

Instagram video or anything. of... of

1:03:46

myself behind. a

1:03:48

bad review that I've had. I

1:03:51

think, oh my God, that's obviously

1:03:53

needled you so badly badly.

1:03:55

So you need know, know, to

1:03:57

with it, grow it, grow up,

1:03:59

buy. put your ego back in

1:04:01

to what you do. you do.

1:04:04

in case people here listening or

1:04:06

Just in case people are

1:04:08

here listening or watching, I

1:04:10

think their own podcast. We've

1:04:13

got an expert here in here

1:04:15

our husband. and our Don't tell us about

1:04:17

what - Dawn, tell us it the

1:04:19

main way. what you're We just

1:04:21

started the business, called called Cluranton

1:04:24

it means this will wave this will wave

1:04:26

taken, so I had to

1:04:28

come up come up know. bit you know

1:04:30

genius and and something different. And it's

1:04:32

just to help and it's just to wants to

1:04:34

find out about anybody that wants to to

1:04:37

get into podcasting, whether you're, you know,

1:04:39

to get into independent a business or anything,

1:04:41

just if you're or a business or don't

1:04:43

know what just if you're Of course, you're

1:04:45

listening, you must do, but do but just

1:04:47

want to be that person who who

1:04:50

I would would have wanted when I first

1:04:52

started podcasting because I didn't have a

1:04:54

clue, because I didn't have anything, and I just

1:04:56

want to be that person for somebody. and

1:04:58

I all it is, just to help

1:05:00

bring people together so you're not all it is

1:05:02

just to help bring people together so

1:05:04

you're find you're not alone and

1:05:06

help be, how can they find you

1:05:08

Dawn? It will be, it's C

1:05:10

-L -U it's -R -A -N -T

1:05:12

-O -N -N. dot com

1:05:16

You can get us anywhere. stuff. And just before

1:05:18

we any last thoughts, any last any

1:05:20

you want to share with our audience

1:05:22

to share of our audience No, but you

1:05:24

you. And actually just wanted to also counteract

1:05:27

all the all the, when we do we do

1:05:29

get negativity. What's actually great is

1:05:31

that that is a very small part.

1:05:33

I think of what most most... creators

1:05:36

do get and actually we have some really

1:05:38

treasured relationships of my some of my listeners. They're

1:05:40

so supportive also like also like to support I've

1:05:42

had a you know I've had a few

1:05:44

of our babies recently and they've sent me

1:05:46

the photos and it's so lovely it's so lovely

1:05:48

know they've said oh yeah I'm on

1:05:50

my holiday and listening to you and I

1:05:52

was like oh that's great you know to

1:05:54

you and I'll say oh that's is a really know it's really

1:05:56

lovely be negative. it to all be negative. It's a

1:05:58

positive place too. Oh, any final

1:06:01

thoughts? Me final thoughts for me this evening? I'd

1:06:03

just like to again rock

1:06:05

it again. comments. And

1:06:08

comments is, what are of thoughts

1:06:10

are our thoughts about

1:06:12

Victoria Taylor, a woman missing on on

1:06:14

mission on 30th of September?

1:06:16

I believe she's deceased in the

1:06:18

river. deceased in the

1:06:20

all I believe I believe. And I

1:06:23

don't want to think, I I

1:06:25

don't want to fuel

1:06:27

the flames of... I don't know enough about the

1:06:29

I think. but I did very, the

1:06:31

very headline that they have thought

1:06:33

myself for a couple of

1:06:36

weeks weeks, though. It's not going to

1:06:38

be a happy outcome outcome for

1:06:40

it, but I I don't think there's

1:06:42

any kind of drama any kind of

1:06:44

drama there, I don't know what your health

1:06:47

I don't know enough about the

1:06:49

case know enough did see case, but I

1:06:51

did see the body had been found,

1:06:53

it's so sad. been found. It's

1:06:55

so sad. Yeah, I watched the watched the

1:06:57

documentary on Nicola recently. I watched her

1:06:59

watched her partner, he was I

1:07:01

mean he was so strong

1:07:03

doing that and the family.

1:07:05

It was fantastic. fantastic just it just

1:07:07

annoys me that we've got some people out

1:07:09

there in the out there in the

1:07:11

media, have I mentioned any particular

1:07:13

names? But it's all about them all about them

1:07:15

and not about the victims. It's back to what

1:07:17

we've been saying throughout this podcast, it?

1:07:20

this podcast, you know, You know,

1:07:22

I mean, ego your ego. about

1:07:24

the people that are

1:07:26

suffering their are suffering Just

1:07:28

over stop it. Just stop it.

1:07:30

Okay. Just stop it. Some will

1:07:32

inject themselves into these

1:07:35

things these things, won't they? I mean,

1:07:37

you know they might even fly

1:07:39

might even fly to different

1:07:41

countries to get involved with

1:07:43

things who knows Who knows? Well, that

1:07:45

is example example. Pena maybe Tenerife

1:07:47

you know what I mean what

1:07:49

I mean, but get they still get a... At

1:07:51

Merowest are, don't

1:07:54

they? Union right, a great day. at

1:07:56

Merrill West Credit Union. We're

1:07:58

working towards a brighter future. future

1:08:00

both our members and our community,

1:08:02

knowing that when you succeed,

1:08:04

we all succeed. we all Let's get

1:08:06

acquainted with our acquainted for our Premier

1:08:09

now paying over new times the

1:08:11

national average. the Another great reason

1:08:13

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1:08:15

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1:08:17

merowest .com at Premier Savings, Premier Credit

1:08:19

Union, working for you, today,

1:08:21

tomorrow, together, insured by by NCUA. Okay, well

1:08:23

good stuff. Look, good been Look, it's

1:08:26

been a fantastic hour. can't believe

1:08:28

we're an hour hour minutes. five minutes

1:08:30

went over. So a huge thank you

1:08:32

to you, Dawn and It's been great

1:08:34

having you here. having you here. And thanks

1:08:36

for Adam. us, you're more than

1:08:38

welcome. more Please come and join

1:08:40

us again. mean, I us again. bored

1:08:42

I'll get You can imagine of pause, you

1:08:45

can imagine after the season. least we're we've got

1:08:47

a minute. It's better for this point quickly. It'll

1:08:49

be Mike next time. next time. We'd

1:08:51

love to have you on again love to

1:08:53

have you on again, guys, if

1:08:55

you want to come on. I need

1:08:57

to live definitely. Thank you you much. refreshing. It

1:08:59

really has. Thank you, everyone, for

1:09:02

joining us for evening to come

1:09:04

and watch us live. Really appreciate

1:09:06

it. watch us we'll see you

1:09:08

next time. it. And now.

1:09:10

see you next time. Cheery Good night. now.

1:09:12

Bye. At Merowest Union, we're working

1:09:14

towards a brighter financial future

1:09:16

for both our members and

1:09:18

our community, knowing that when

1:09:20

you succeed, our we all succeed.

1:09:23

Let's get acquainted with our

1:09:25

succeed, for new members. Let's

1:09:27

over 20 times the national

1:09:29

average. Another great reason

1:09:31

to move your money to

1:09:33

a credit union. the Learn

1:09:35

more at average. .com reason to move

1:09:37

your money to a Credit Union,

1:09:39

working for you. Today, tomorrow,

1:09:42

together, ensured by See you A.