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1:52

today's show notes. Hey

2:02

script apart listeners, how are we

2:04

all doing today? Welcome back to

2:06

another episode of this podcast about

2:09

the first draft secrets of great

2:11

movies and TV shows. My name's

2:13

Al Horner and today on the

2:16

show. An emotional conversation about one

2:18

of the biggest animations of the

2:20

last 12 months, which was recently

2:23

nominated for three Academy Awards. Across

2:25

the last few years, a question

2:27

has emerged in the film industry.

2:29

How should Hollywood respond to the

2:32

looming climate crisis? Can blockbuster movies

2:34

be a tool for mobilizing audiences

2:36

into action as global temperatures rise?

2:39

Fires rage and climate denialism continues

2:41

to spread? Maybe in decades to

2:43

come, The Wild Robot, a film

2:46

by my guest today, Chris Sanders,

2:48

will be looked back upon as

2:50

one of the first indicators of

2:52

mainstream movie-making's processing off and push

2:55

back against the weather emergencies coming

2:57

our way. The film is a

2:59

stunning, meazaki-inspired animation about a robot

3:02

washed ashore on an island in

3:04

a future America devastated by unspecified

3:06

ecological disasters. It acknowledges what awaits

3:09

if carbon emissions aren't curbed head-on

3:11

instead of just alluding to it

3:13

like many other blockbusters. This deeply

3:15

moving tale features the voice talents

3:18

of La Peta Niongo as Ross,

3:20

an Android who learns to love

3:22

through foster care. After an accident,

3:25

she becomes the guardian of an

3:27

infant goose named Brightbill, voiced by

3:29

Kit Connor. Brightbill has to learn

3:32

to fly to migrate to warmer

3:34

climbs before the brutal winter turns

3:36

the island into a scarcely survivable

3:38

tundra of sorts. In the spoiler

3:41

conversation that you're about to hear,

3:43

Chris reveals the meaning of two

3:45

phrases that informed every frame of

3:48

this brilliant film. Kindness as a

3:50

survival skill and... exceed your programming.

3:52

We get into the truth behind

3:55

Universal Dynamics, the shadowy company that

3:57

created Ross. Chris shares his advice

3:59

for any other screenwriters hoping to

4:02

make effective climate fiction. And you'll

4:04

also hear a very affecting story

4:06

that I'm not sure Chris has

4:08

shared before about his mother and

4:11

a regret that he's carried with

4:13

him for most of his life

4:15

that ended up influencing one of

4:18

the key lines in the movie.

4:20

A massive thank you to Chris

4:22

and a massive thank you to

4:25

all our patron supporters who helped

4:27

this show continue to grow. If

4:29

you'd like ad-free episodes, early access

4:31

to episodes, the chance to ask

4:34

your questions to upcoming guests, and

4:36

access to our brand new writing

4:38

hour in which script-apart listeners join

4:41

me for 60 minutes of creative

4:43

writing every Saturday. All you need

4:45

to do is head to patreon.com/script

4:48

apart. that address one more time

4:50

is patron.com/script apart. Okay, with that

4:52

all out the way, let's jump

4:54

in, shall we? This is the

4:57

fantastic Chris Sanders discussing the first

4:59

draft secrets of the Wild Robot.

5:01

A massive thanks to everyone for

5:04

tuning in. My name is Al

5:06

Horner. This episode was produced as

5:08

ever by Camille Dermek. I hope

5:11

you enjoy the show. Good to

5:13

meet you hello! Congratulations on The

5:15

Wild Robot and all its recent

5:17

awards success. Very exciting. I wanted

5:20

to begin today Chris by asking

5:22

about your first conversation with Peter

5:24

Brown about this adaptation and a

5:27

phrase he used that you immediately

5:29

jotted down kindness as a survival

5:31

skill. What does that phrase mean

5:34

to you Chris and how did

5:36

it become one of the driving

5:38

philosophies of this film? You know,

5:40

I'm so grateful for the conversation

5:43

we had. He was very busy

5:45

working on the illustrations for his

5:47

third book, so he wasn't able

5:50

to be there in person when

5:52

we when we began. So we

5:54

got on the Zoom call and

5:57

I didn't really even know what

5:59

to ask. It was Jeff Herman,

6:01

our producer, and myself. And we

6:03

just wanted to chat with him

6:06

about like everything and just like

6:08

ask him anything about the story

6:10

that we may not know yet

6:13

and that's when he laid that

6:15

on us. And it was so

6:17

clearly a load bearing guiding principle

6:20

inside the story. And I wrote

6:22

that again, you're completely correct. I

6:24

quickly jotted that down and thought,

6:27

you know, that was never memorialized

6:29

in the book. It was just

6:31

something that he had in his

6:33

mind as a guiding principle as

6:36

he wrote the book. So I

6:38

jotted that down. and determined immediately

6:40

that that would be on screen.

6:43

And eventually I handed that to

6:45

the character of Think, the Fox,

6:47

as he's having a conversation with

6:50

Ross, and just flat out says,

6:52

look, you gotta learn how things

6:54

work on this island, and kindness

6:56

is not a survival skill. And

6:59

he's saying it as he's killing

7:01

a crab for his dinner. And,

7:03

you know, graphically illustrating what he's

7:06

talking about. So that that there

7:08

was two things that were our

7:10

North Star if you will and

7:13

one that was one and the

7:15

other one is the idea that

7:17

you will eventually be challenged to

7:19

exceed your programming and that we

7:21

will all come to a point

7:24

in our lives maybe multiple times

7:26

where in order to accomplish something

7:28

to survive something we may have

7:30

to change the way that we

7:32

think And that's hard, but it's

7:34

also something that's good. Inevitably, you

7:36

know, I hate change. I'm a

7:38

normal person. I think normal people

7:40

hate change. And in moments where

7:42

I've been forced to change, I've

7:45

never looked back at those without

7:47

being just so grateful for them.

7:49

And it became this really interesting

7:51

thing that as I worked in

7:53

the story, Ross looks at the

7:55

animal's behavior and puts it in

7:57

terms that she understands. So right

7:59

after Fink says that, she says,

8:01

you're programming. And she says that

8:04

about a few characters. So she's

8:06

putting things in terms that she

8:08

understands. And of course, there's this

8:10

moment that it's from the book

8:12

where she has a talk with

8:14

these animals in the midst of

8:16

this winter storm. At a turning

8:18

point in the story, that if

8:20

they don't change the way they

8:22

work, No one is going to

8:25

survive this winter. It's a really,

8:27

it's a wonderful thing. And it

8:29

was a wonderful thing because we

8:31

never had to like really, like

8:33

put it out there, like really

8:35

pound people over the head with

8:37

it. Store wise, it was just

8:39

so woven in to the narrative.

8:41

So yeah, so those two things,

8:43

I think it was just one

8:46

of those things like, yeah, that's

8:48

it. That's it. That's our North

8:50

Star. I want to come back

8:52

to exceeding your programming, but first

8:54

I'm curious like. What were you

8:56

seeing in the real world at

8:58

the time Chris? And what are

9:00

you perhaps seeing right now in

9:02

a month of huge political upheaval

9:05

and fires decimating LA? What are

9:07

you seeing that underlines for you,

9:09

the sense that yes, maybe kindness

9:11

and maybe community, these things are

9:13

all we have? And yeah, I'll

9:15

just be curious to know what

9:17

reaffirms your belief from the real

9:19

world that kindness can help us

9:21

survive. There has never been, you

9:23

know, as a kid, you're not

9:26

paying attention to things, but I

9:28

think by the time that, you

9:30

know, I was old enough to

9:32

really, like, watch the news and,

9:34

and, and, and see what's going

9:36

on. There's always a situation, I

9:38

think, where people, if they don't

9:40

know, the, the, what's going on

9:42

with somebody else, it's easy to.

9:45

see them in a certain way,

9:47

if that makes sense. So I

9:49

don't think there's a time where

9:51

there's ever... not, you know, or

9:53

there's, I would say there's never

9:55

a time where this message wouldn't

9:57

be pertinent. I know that like,

9:59

you know, just, just, even people

10:01

I've known, right? I'm like, you

10:03

know, like, uh, when I've spent

10:06

time with them, you get that

10:08

they're struggling with things as much

10:10

as you are. And if you

10:12

take a moment, you know, if

10:14

you take a moment and can

10:16

calm down and just just wait

10:18

a beat, you know, you'll see

10:20

commonalities. And I think that, you

10:22

know, that it's always it's always

10:24

been around these kind of stresses.

10:27

They change, they come in the,

10:29

they, they, they increase and they

10:31

decrease and stuff like that. But

10:33

yeah, it's, it's, it's just I

10:35

think the way that we're getting

10:37

back to programming. I think that

10:39

it's the way that we're programmed.

10:41

I would say that, I'm just,

10:43

again, I'm very, I'm very much

10:46

like everybody else. I want to

10:48

simplify things. And when I simplify

10:50

things, I might make mistakes about

10:52

judging things, maybe judging people. And

10:54

if you're willing to like, look

10:56

at the more complex stuff, right?

10:58

That's when you start to see

11:00

commonalities and understand things. So I

11:02

think that there's just such a

11:04

hopeful message. built into the story

11:07

that Peter wrote? That kind of

11:09

message of togetherness. That's something that

11:11

there's a long history of togetherness

11:13

being explored in kids books and

11:15

kids media. But one thing that

11:17

is unique to this film and

11:19

that I've been thinking a lot

11:21

about since seeing the film is

11:23

how like a lot of parents

11:26

presumably came away from this film

11:28

having to have a conversation with

11:30

their kids because The World of

11:32

the Wild Robot is so very

11:34

clearly our world as signposted by

11:36

shots of like, you know, the

11:38

whales swimming over a submerged Golden

11:40

Gate bridge. But the film doesn't

11:42

explain why the earth has undergone

11:44

such drastic change. It doesn't explain

11:47

why humans now seem to live

11:49

in these pod cities separate from

11:51

nature. And I can only imagine

11:53

how many kids came out of

11:55

screenings asking their parents, what happened?

11:57

So yeah, I'm curious Chris, did

11:59

you leave that question unanswered in

12:01

the film because you wanted that

12:03

exact conversation to take place? Like,

12:05

is there something more powerful in

12:08

the film activating that question for

12:10

young audiences to have? in a

12:12

way that, you know, they have

12:14

to talk about, like, after the

12:16

credits role, that is just more

12:18

useful or instigate something that you

12:20

wouldn't have if there was, like,

12:22

a text explainer at the beginning

12:24

of the film. I think the

12:27

things, the parts of the film

12:29

that I was very conscious that

12:31

we're going to start conversation, We

12:33

asked, getting back to the conversation

12:35

we had of Peter at the

12:37

very beginning, we were asking him,

12:39

is like, is there a certain

12:41

time period? Is there a certain

12:43

place? Because he never identified them

12:45

in the book. And he said,

12:48

there's no exact place, but it's

12:50

clearly the northwest coast of North

12:52

America, just because of the animals

12:54

and the topography. And likewise, there

12:56

was no specific time. It's simply

12:58

some time in the future. And

13:00

the reason that we did the

13:02

whole thing with the Golden Gate

13:04

Bridge was a very practical thing.

13:07

We were worried that people wouldn't

13:09

understand that it was Earth because

13:11

human beings are not represented very

13:13

much in the story. And because

13:15

robots dominate and animals dominate, we

13:17

thought if we're going to show

13:19

that it's the future, how can

13:21

we do that economically in very

13:23

few shots? So we came up

13:25

with the idea of the bridge

13:28

that was underwater. There's no mistaking

13:30

that that's planet Earth. That did

13:32

not play well with kids in

13:34

San Francisco. I got I was

13:36

I was definitely a grilled by

13:38

one child in San Francisco who

13:40

called that out. But yeah, there

13:42

was a very practical reason that

13:44

we showed those things. And again,

13:46

Peter never really identified a time.

13:49

He just said, in the future.

13:51

So the way that I was

13:53

thinking about it as a screenwriter

13:55

was that when I was in

13:57

Hawaii once, I went snorkeling. And

13:59

we went, we were next to

14:01

this sunken crater. And I remember

14:03

they said, you can storehole anywhere

14:05

you want, but don't touch that

14:08

island. That's a wildlife sanctuary. If

14:10

we catch you walking on the

14:12

island, you're going to be in

14:14

big trouble. And that was the

14:16

way that I was looking at

14:18

it as a screenwriter, that Or

14:20

again, primarily because in the book

14:22

robots are sent to retrieve Ross.

14:24

So it seems it is heavily

14:26

suggested that it's a no-go zone

14:29

for human beings. It's a thriving

14:31

island, so there's nothing about it

14:33

that's dangerous as far as like

14:35

the atmosphere. So I began to

14:37

think of it as perhaps it's

14:39

like a wildlife like. sanctuary to

14:41

some degree, that it is for

14:43

some reason people have decided leave

14:45

these places alone. Maybe they're letting

14:48

them recover. I don't know. But

14:50

that's what I was thinking in

14:52

my head is that people have

14:54

moved away from the wilderness and

14:56

have concentrated in places and then

14:58

abandoned other places. So obviously Peter

15:00

didn't specify a lot of this.

15:02

which left it to you and

15:04

left it to the animators to

15:06

kind of like build this world

15:09

on screen and you almost had

15:11

to do it from scratch in

15:13

some senses. Did you have to

15:15

have an understanding of the timelines

15:17

of the catastrophes? Did you have

15:19

to follow a certain science of

15:21

what is predicted to happen and

15:23

if like the Arctic shelf collapses

15:25

and all that kind of thing

15:27

in order to build what we

15:30

see on screen Chris? We did

15:32

do a bit of research as

15:34

to like rising... levels of you

15:36

know rising ocean levels to see

15:38

what coastlines would would look at

15:40

like because we were there were

15:42

There were different opportunities that we

15:44

could have exploited. One of them

15:46

was during the migration, should the

15:49

birds set down at some point

15:51

in what looks like a wilderness,

15:53

and then we cut a little

15:55

bit wider, and it's an old

15:57

stadium, like a football stadium, that

15:59

has been allowed to go back

16:01

to nature. And it ended up

16:03

that we only had time for

16:05

a few things. So we have

16:07

the remnants of a city that

16:10

it's underwater. we have the bridge

16:12

underwater. And then at one point

16:14

if you're watching, it's a nighttime

16:16

shot as the geese are flying

16:18

overhead and there are some big

16:20

radio telescopes and they're in disrepair.

16:22

So again, I think just suggesting

16:24

that people have for some reason

16:26

relocated themselves. No suggestion as to

16:29

why. And because nothing story wise

16:31

hung on that, we only had

16:33

to go so far in defining

16:35

it. Yeah, so we would as

16:37

far as we needed to. to

16:39

a certain degree to let people

16:41

fill in those gaps in the

16:43

details by themselves. And on the

16:45

note of that football stadium, what

16:47

else can you tell me about

16:50

like the ideas, the imagery that

16:52

you kind of kicked around at

16:54

the beginning of this project that

16:56

perhaps wasn't in this book that

16:58

perhaps existed in an outline or

17:00

even in a first draft that

17:02

you ended up parking because it

17:04

didn't serve the narrative. I'd love

17:06

to hear just all the ideas

17:08

or any of the ideas that

17:11

come to mind that you were

17:13

excited to put in but it

17:15

ultimately wasn't the right thing for

17:17

the wild robots. We designed a

17:19

ship that was a container ship.

17:21

I had a more detailed opening

17:23

where it was more step-by-step when

17:25

the first script we actually start

17:27

in the factory where Ross is

17:30

being made and she's being assembled

17:32

and we very quickly but in...

17:34

A fair amount of detail showed

17:36

her being completed, packaged, loaded on

17:38

a ship and that ship runs

17:40

into a storm when we see

17:42

the containers fall overboard. And at

17:44

a certain point... we were like,

17:46

A, we only have so much

17:48

time. And can we jettison that

17:51

because we need that time for

17:53

other things? But also it was

17:55

really good for the story. We

17:57

thought we realized maybe it's better

17:59

to start this film when Ross

18:01

boots up so that everyone, the

18:03

audience, is there with her. So

18:05

it's much more palpable and immediate.

18:07

So there was definitely an opening

18:10

that we experimented with and then

18:12

jettisoned. What else? I mean there

18:14

was definitely, I experimented with a

18:16

few sequences where one of the

18:18

characters that was removed is named

18:20

Chit Chat. It is a very

18:22

very popular character in the book

18:24

because Chit Chat talks a lot.

18:26

So when kids read the book

18:28

or parents read the book, two

18:31

kids, it is a really fun

18:33

part of the book to read.

18:35

It was one of the most

18:37

popular characters that I knew I

18:39

had to remove just because Chit

18:41

Chat is like a little kid.

18:43

befriends Brightbill when he meets him

18:45

and they spend time together. And

18:47

again, I had to clear out

18:49

time. A book is a boat.

18:52

It can hold a lot. You

18:54

can digest a book at your

18:56

own pace. Think of it as

18:58

a container ship. But a film

19:00

is an airplane. it only has

19:02

a certain amount of time to

19:04

get to where it's going. It

19:06

needs to be lightweight. It needs

19:08

to be fast. It needs to

19:11

be streamlined. So for that reason,

19:13

you jettison a lot of things

19:15

to make room on the airplane

19:17

for the things that are just

19:19

very, very necessary. You only have

19:21

time, especially in animation, for those

19:23

things that are absolutely necessary. And

19:25

the art of it is to

19:27

make it feel very natural, to

19:29

make it feel as though it's

19:32

not missing anything, and to not

19:34

reveal like... If you've never read

19:36

the book, you wouldn't notice these

19:38

things have been missing. I would

19:40

say at this point, one of

19:42

the interesting things would be if

19:44

you have seen the film and

19:46

you have not read the book,

19:48

it's a really wonderful thing to

19:51

read the book and just get

19:53

back in touch with the actual

19:55

source material. Yeah. That's so interesting

19:57

about the opening of the film

19:59

because, well, it is really unusual.

20:01

The film throws us into that

20:03

disorientation and, you know, we get

20:05

a sense of the, this world

20:07

of ecological disaster immediately. There's a

20:09

tsunami wave crashing towards our protagonist

20:12

and we don't know who they

20:14

are yet, but we know that

20:16

they're presented with all the threats

20:18

to the forest immediately. In fact,

20:20

like, right up until the kind

20:22

of grizzly bear attack. this thing

20:24

is 100 miles per hour and

20:26

it's almost like the revenant esque

20:28

in terms of like the all

20:30

angles assault on Ross with new

20:33

dangers at every turn so that

20:35

is that is such an opening

20:37

and I think to to your

20:39

point like it really kind of

20:41

adds to the sense of poignancy

20:43

when Ross says that heartbreaking line

20:45

did anyone order me? That line

20:47

doesn't, doesn't, I don't think the

20:49

audience would sort of feel that

20:52

line the way that we do

20:54

without that opening where we're sitting

20:56

in her confusion and her terror.

20:58

That is such a such a

21:00

particular moment of loneliness in the

21:02

film and it really sets up

21:04

like that character not just from

21:06

a narrative perspective, like we know

21:08

in that moment that she craves

21:10

purpose, but it also seems to

21:13

announce something about the character. Can

21:15

you tell me about that line

21:17

Chris? Did anyone order me? In

21:19

the book, she's really searching for

21:21

two things. She's looking for whoever,

21:23

frankly, in a very practical way.

21:25

She's looking for whoever ordered her

21:27

because a Rossum robot, as described

21:29

in the book, and Peter was

21:32

telling us as well, is designed

21:34

to complete tasks. And they are

21:36

very, very, they're learning robots. So

21:38

they're very adaptable. So I love

21:40

to look at things the way

21:42

they really might be, because that's

21:44

what gives a story I think

21:46

some some. some believability. So, you

21:48

know, a long time ago, they

21:50

sold this like little It was

21:53

a package and if you opened

21:55

it up, there were I think

21:57

about 12 folded up pieces of

21:59

paper that when you unfolded them,

22:01

they were the blueprints for the

22:03

Starship Enterprise. And I saved my

22:05

money and bought them because I

22:07

looked at those things every day.

22:09

I like carefully unfold them because

22:11

I wanted to know how the

22:14

enterprise worked. And I've always done

22:16

that. On Lilo and Stitch, I

22:18

wrote a very detailed description about

22:20

why the red ship worked the

22:22

way it did. And I had

22:24

arrows pointing to parts of the

22:26

ship because I did the drawing

22:28

of the ship, but then I

22:30

identified all the parts and what

22:33

they did. So I was very

22:35

interested in Ross. operating the way

22:37

she really would. Like, I thought,

22:39

you know, she's expensive. She has

22:41

these exterior lights that would constantly,

22:43

like, if you had a, if

22:45

you had a manual for why

22:47

she worked, like, you get the

22:49

robot, you get a manual, and

22:51

the manual says, when the lights

22:54

go green, this is what it

22:56

means. When this light blinks at

22:58

this frequency, it means that this

23:00

needs, you know, service and stuff

23:02

like that. So I was looking

23:04

at her as a real product.

23:06

Because I thought, okay, they would

23:08

build in a promotional mode so

23:10

that she would advertise herself. And

23:13

perhaps, like, another customer might buy

23:15

one because, you know, that sounds

23:17

pretty good. So she gives out

23:19

stickers, which is something that I

23:21

came up with when she can't

23:23

find her operator. So that moment

23:25

was meant to really focus on

23:27

the fact that she's like, I

23:29

like that she said, did anybody

23:31

order me? Because she's a product.

23:34

So at the end of the

23:36

film. when this other robot shows

23:38

up. Ross, by that point, has

23:40

become a very, very real being

23:42

to us. And it was very

23:44

important for me that this robot

23:46

that shows up Vantra is like

23:48

touching Ross. It feels very violating,

23:50

but Ross is like a lawnmower

23:52

to this company. She's like a

23:55

refrigerator. So this robot that shows

23:57

up, it does not see Ross

23:59

as a living... being an individual.

24:01

It's a lawnmower that isn't working

24:03

right. So she's touching her and

24:05

she's, you know, looking her up

24:07

and down and just treating her

24:09

in this really weird way that

24:11

was meant to make everybody feel

24:14

uncomfortable. Hey everyone, this is Al.

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25:06

let's get back to the conversation.

25:08

You know, it occurred to me

25:10

the first time I watched it.

25:12

I wondered if Ross was going

25:15

to be this piece of technology.

25:17

that's outlived its human creators in

25:19

that particular moment we're describing. You

25:21

know, it's not too much later

25:23

on in the film that we

25:25

get a sense of like, oh

25:27

no, humans are still around. It

25:29

is a likelihood in the real

25:31

world that, you know, the internet,

25:33

for example, will outlive humans. That's

25:36

something that's agreed upon amongst scientists.

25:38

But instead of course, like, the

25:40

gradual reveal of the film is

25:42

that she's a product of universal

25:44

dynamics, as you say that company

25:46

is still going. Can you break

25:48

down for me how you understood

25:50

what that company is and any

25:52

different iterations of that company and

25:55

its kind of maliciousness I suppose?

25:57

Yeah, and it was important to

25:59

me that it, Boncher plays the

26:01

role of a villain at that

26:03

point. So she occupies that space.

26:05

And by the third act of

26:07

film, you can take leaps. that

26:09

you wouldn't be able to take

26:11

in the first two acts. So

26:13

I was able to, and one

26:16

of the reasons that Vantra behaves

26:18

in a more sort of broad

26:20

way, again, wasn't necessarily to make

26:22

her a villain. It was because

26:24

I needed her to occupy that

26:26

space. In fact, I wrote into

26:28

the script, Ross even says, you

26:30

seem happy. And she says, I

26:32

am programmed about my targets at

26:35

ease because she's acting odd for

26:37

a robot, right? So the idea

26:39

that she's been programmed to behave

26:41

this way because her role, one

26:43

of her roles is perhaps to

26:45

hunt down a robot in this

26:47

particular situation. So I thought a

26:49

lot about universal dynamics and primarily

26:51

I want the future world to

26:53

be that hopeful positive place that

26:56

I was promised as a kid.

26:58

We based it on Sid Meade.

27:00

paintings, which always presented this really,

27:02

when I was a kid, the

27:04

future was really exciting. Like, the

27:06

future was just going to get

27:08

better and better and better. You

27:10

know, there was going to be

27:12

Formica instead of Wood. Like, that's

27:14

great. You know, all these things

27:17

are happening. And the future was

27:19

just going to get better and

27:21

better and better and better. And

27:23

nowadays, I think that people see

27:25

that as kind of a corny

27:27

thing, but I still long for

27:29

that. And I wanted primarily future

27:31

world to be just the opposite.

27:33

of the island. So, and that

27:36

was pretty simple. If the island

27:38

is chaos, it's open to the

27:40

elements. There's no even ground. Then

27:42

where Ross was supposed to be

27:44

is harmonious. It's been well thought

27:46

through. She would fit in there

27:48

perfectly. Everything is level. There's a

27:50

harmony to the way things fit

27:52

together. So primarily, it's a really

27:54

good place. just the fact that

27:57

she's gone off script, that it

27:59

feels malevolent towards her. Because primarily

28:01

they're frightened of her. And that's

28:03

another thing I spent a lot

28:05

of time thinking about. If you

28:07

look at the film very carefully,

28:09

the lights on Ross indicate not

28:11

just her power level, but they

28:13

indicate her level of distress. So

28:16

when the bear hits her, from

28:18

the very, the moment the bear

28:20

hits her, all of her running

28:22

lights go bright red. So she's

28:24

in distress. If you watch Vantra

28:26

very closely, any time Vantra drifts

28:28

into a position where Ross can

28:30

see her, she's green and she's

28:32

trying to make Ross calm, but

28:34

the moment she drifts outside of

28:37

Ross's view, she goes bright red

28:39

because she's frightened of Ross and

28:41

she's distressed. So she's recognizing that

28:43

Ross needs to be, she needs

28:45

to be kept calm, but universal

28:47

dynamics in general. is in my

28:49

mind is extremely concerned with what

28:51

happened, which is why we can

28:53

believe they sent a ship of

28:55

that scale to retrieve her. I

28:58

would imagine that Rosam robot is

29:00

like an iPod or an iPad

29:02

or an iPhone. That's a trillion

29:04

dollar industry to Universal Dynamics. And

29:06

for one of these robots to

29:08

go so badly off script would

29:10

be very, very bad for them.

29:12

So they need to get Ros

29:14

back because they need to understand

29:17

why she's operating by herself. In

29:19

my mind, if she couldn't find

29:21

an operator, she should have quickly

29:23

defaulted to return mode, which she

29:25

does, but she gets delayed because,

29:27

you know, because things happen. But

29:29

at that point, she shouldn't have

29:31

been operational. And the fact that

29:33

they find her covered in lichens,

29:35

and she's obviously been doing things,

29:38

that should be like a huge

29:40

no-no, as far as she should

29:42

have been, she should have been

29:44

quietly sitting under a tree, gathering

29:46

dust, shut down. That's what she

29:48

was supposed to do. but she

29:50

didn't shut down and they don't

29:52

know why. Something you said there

29:54

about how like the future world

29:57

was supposed to be the opposite.

29:59

of the natural world. That kind

30:01

of manifests on screen in the

30:03

animation. And you'll have to excuse

30:05

me Chris, I'm a screenwriter, I'm

30:07

not an animator, so I definitely

30:09

won't have the vocabulary for this.

30:11

But it seems, even in one

30:13

frame, like at the beginning of

30:15

the film, there's something kind of

30:18

multidisciplinary going on in terms

30:20

of the art styles. Like the

30:22

natural world is kind of painted

30:24

almost in these water colors, and

30:26

then there's more photorealism

30:28

to ros. Can you tell me, was

30:30

that in the script, unless I've, unless

30:33

I've completely imagined it, was that in

30:35

the script? Oh, yeah, that's,

30:37

you're very observant. So, everything in

30:39

the film is painted by a

30:41

human hand, it's a return to,

30:43

when I started an animation, because

30:45

technology finally got to that point,

30:47

which we could talk about in

30:50

more detail, but the one lone

30:52

element that is traditional CG, is

30:54

Ross, and her crate, when she

30:56

first activates. We have 30 versions

30:58

of her that we begin to

31:00

trade out almost immediately. Because the

31:02

more time she spent, because, and

31:04

you're completely correct, we deliberately

31:06

want her to look like

31:08

she doesn't belong where she is.

31:11

So visually she doesn't fit. So

31:13

the language of her surfacing is

31:15

completely different. Then we begin to

31:17

trade her out. 30 versions of

31:19

her until we get to the

31:21

midpoint of the film and she has

31:23

a 100% painted surface just like

31:25

the animals do. We're still trying

31:28

to evoke the materials that she's

31:30

made of, titanium and different polymers,

31:33

but they're painted now. So she

31:35

gets more organic. And then of

31:37

course by the time Vantras shows

31:39

up, she looks like a cheapet.

31:41

She's got moss. She's got little

31:43

flowers growing on herself. And again.

31:46

The way we staged it, she

31:48

steps, like Vantra says, you know,

31:50

she introduces herself and Ross steps

31:52

into a pool of light and

31:55

she's fully illuminated and that's meant

31:57

to shock Vantra as far as

31:59

how changed cheers. So another thing

32:01

we haven't discussed yet Chris that

32:03

I think is really important to

32:06

this story is the idea of

32:08

motherhood. So Ross obviously discovers this

32:10

goose egg in a nest that

32:12

she's accidentally destroyed. She then nurtures

32:14

the egg till it hatches and

32:16

all of a sudden we have

32:18

bright bill. That's kind of the

32:20

myth. That's such a bulk of

32:22

the film. And it's interesting, like,

32:24

I'm curious, like, what you saw

32:26

is so fitting about these two

32:29

things the films exploring, like, yes,

32:31

ecological collapse, but also motherhood. What

32:33

kind of locked in for you

32:35

about those two things together? There

32:37

were these wonderful things that were

32:39

suggested and not just, there were

32:41

things that were suggested that we

32:43

latched onto that we developed and

32:45

there were things that were just

32:47

flat out, like, you know, load

32:49

bearing pillars inside Peter's story. The

32:52

biggest one being the idea that

32:54

Ross takes on a task, because

32:56

she needs a task, this one

32:58

pretty much falls in her lap,

33:00

but she's taking on a task

33:02

that very poetically, she doesn't understand

33:04

where this is leading. Emotionally, she's

33:06

headed towards a cliff. and she's

33:08

driving straight towards an emotional precipice,

33:10

but she doesn't know it. Anybody

33:13

who's grown up like I do,

33:15

like I did, in Colorado and

33:17

places with snow, who has built

33:19

a snowman, knows that it'll always

33:21

end badly, right? And so if

33:23

you're raising a bird and you

33:25

do a good job, it's going

33:27

to fly away, but she doesn't

33:29

understand that. Or she doesn't understand

33:31

emotionally what that means. She's just

33:33

like, well, this is a job.

33:36

The other thing it was so

33:38

beautiful about the story is that

33:40

we had to deliberately build Interra's

33:42

gaps. We actually had discussions where

33:44

people would say to us, well,

33:46

of course she knows how to

33:48

raise a gosling. She knows everything.

33:50

She's like an encyclopedia. And our

33:52

answer was, she has to have

33:54

gaps where the story won't work.

33:56

So for some reason, they never

33:59

programmed in this information. that is

34:01

anybody who's had a child gets

34:03

that moment. Like, that kid is

34:05

unique. Everyone's, like, even brothers and

34:07

sisters inside the same family, they

34:09

can be completely different. So you

34:11

are not prepared. So when she

34:13

says, I don't have the programming,

34:15

everyone can relate to that. Also,

34:17

story wise, it forced her to

34:19

go off script. And that's a

34:22

big no-no for a Rosam robot.

34:24

So at the midpoint of the

34:26

film, where she ends up talking

34:28

to another robot, and she says,

34:30

you know, basically, what are you

34:32

doing? She says, I don't know.

34:34

I'm just making things up. And

34:36

she's coming to the point where

34:38

she's just, you know, she's having

34:40

a crisis. And of course, for

34:42

a Rosam robot, this is a

34:45

big no-no to go off script

34:47

like that. But if she didn't,

34:49

she couldn't have she couldn't have

34:51

completed the mission. But at that

34:53

moment, she has to make a

34:55

decision. Do I scrap my programming

34:57

and do what is forbidden, or

34:59

do I fail in my mission?

35:01

And she prioritizes the mission. She

35:03

prioritizes Bright Bill's life. And it's

35:05

such a beautiful thing that was

35:08

built into the fabric of the

35:10

story that we were able to

35:12

exploit and point out. And of

35:14

course, I storyboarded the sequence where

35:16

Bright Bill. at the midpoint of

35:18

the film does join this migration.

35:20

And I was able to make

35:22

physical that cliff emotionally. And so

35:24

when Brightbill disappears, in my mind,

35:26

Ross's emotion, she didn't understand until

35:29

that moment. And suddenly she's seized

35:31

by something. And she just, she

35:33

does this illogical thing. She just

35:35

starts to run. And now she's

35:37

operating on pure emotion, and she

35:39

runs because she has to see

35:41

him one more time. And she

35:43

ends up running right up to

35:45

the edge of that cliff, which

35:47

is embodied physically, hanging off the

35:49

cliff. to see if she can

35:52

see him for one last moment.

35:54

And that's something that I played

35:56

a piece of music in my

35:58

in my, yeah, it headset as

36:00

I wrote a bike or weeks

36:02

thinking about that sequence until I

36:04

had it down the way I

36:06

wanted it and then I sat

36:08

down and I storyboarded it just

36:10

once. There's something interesting that's happening

36:12

with bright bill in that moment

36:15

as well. Like you've talked elsewhere

36:17

Chris. about how, like, the scene

36:19

in which Long Neck talks to

36:21

Bright Bill right before the geese

36:23

are about to migrate. In that

36:25

moment, he realizes, and I quote,

36:27

there's no longer time for him

36:29

to apologize. There's no time left

36:31

to make things right. This is

36:33

something that I've experienced in my

36:35

life, that I've waited too long

36:38

to say something, and the regret

36:40

I carry is huge. That sounds

36:42

really emotional, and obviously this is

36:44

a work of adaptation, but it

36:46

sounds like you were still bringing

36:48

parts of your own life to

36:50

the table here. To the table

36:52

here. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And one

36:54

of the things I was able

36:56

to, I guess, bind is this

36:58

moment that long neck lays down

37:01

some very heavy stuff for bright

37:03

bill. But there's, like, as you

37:05

said, there's no time left for

37:07

bright built to process and deal

37:09

with it. Well, Nick tells him

37:11

basically is, you know, he turns

37:13

everything around for Bright Bill and

37:15

points out that, um, he, Bright

37:17

Bill has been blaming Ross for

37:19

the death of his family, which

37:21

to some degree is legitimate, even

37:24

though it was an accident. But

37:26

he points out that it was

37:28

a feature of the story. Bright

37:30

Bill is a runt. He was

37:32

chosen by nature to not survive.

37:34

But because Ross found him, he

37:36

did. So at that moment that

37:38

Longneck says, you know, if it

37:40

wasn't for this calamity, you wouldn't

37:42

be here. He says, you know,

37:45

look at all these geese around

37:47

you. Do you do you see

37:49

any other geese your size? the

37:51

accident that killed your family saved

37:53

you. And there isn't time for

37:55

Brightbill now to catch up and

37:57

deal with that and apologize. And

37:59

that bit of reconciliation, we deliberately

38:01

timed it to happen at that

38:03

moment so that Brightbill, so that

38:05

unsaid thing powers the film for

38:08

the rest of the for the

38:10

other half of the film because

38:12

we're waiting for a chance for

38:14

bright bill to get back and

38:16

talk to her. But she has

38:18

no intention of being there. So

38:20

there's all these wonderful complex things

38:22

that are going on, which is

38:24

why I love stories like this,

38:26

because these are the kind of

38:28

calamities that we are going to

38:31

experience and do experience and have

38:33

experienced that we dwell on and

38:35

think about and like, if only

38:37

I'd had had more time, if

38:39

only I'd said something. So absolutely,

38:41

there's things that, you know, I

38:43

could, you know, talk about that

38:45

I could, you know, yeah. I

38:47

don't know, you know, it's not

38:49

my place to ask what the

38:51

regret is or was, but the

38:54

kind of present tense of that,

38:56

that quote, the regret I carry

38:58

is huge. It's still active. I'm

39:00

curious, like, Chris did... adding that

39:02

into the film and making it

39:04

part of the world robot, did

39:06

it kind of resolve that regret

39:08

for you in some way? Does

39:10

it feel emotional to see that

39:12

scene given that's that's a part

39:14

of your own life clearly that

39:17

you're putting into the film? You

39:19

know, by nature it can't be

39:21

resolved. For me, it was, you

39:23

know, my own mom that when

39:25

I was, when I was very,

39:27

very young, She was she was

39:29

diagnosed with cancer when she was

39:31

pregnant with my sister and she

39:33

chose to She could have chemo

39:35

or she could care my sister

39:37

full term. And this is something

39:40

I didn't really understand as a

39:42

kid. And she chose, she prioritized

39:44

my sister. And that may have

39:46

been the thing that that meant

39:48

that she didn't live much longer

39:50

after that. So I didn't know

39:52

her very well. And, you know,

39:54

I quite honestly don't know if

39:56

I ever told her I loved

39:58

her. I think I did once,

40:01

but you know, in my family

40:03

we're not very demonstrative, you know,

40:05

for whatever. But it's, it's, yeah,

40:07

that was something that I thought

40:09

about. So for me, the actual

40:11

poignant moment was when think says,

40:13

when you grow up without something,

40:15

you spend a lot of time

40:17

thinking about it. And that's, that

40:19

was the story point that we

40:21

talked about a lot because, Some

40:24

people saw that and said, well,

40:26

this is out of character for

40:28

Fink. And I would defend it

40:30

very vehemently and say, no, no,

40:32

no, no, this is, this is,

40:34

this is not an inconsistency of

40:36

his character. This is him revealing

40:38

a new layer, a new layer

40:40

of himself. And it makes perfect

40:42

sense. It's why he is the

40:44

way he is. So for me,

40:47

that was, that was the moment.

40:49

Oddly enough, it's when he says

40:51

that. It's not the Bright Bill

40:53

moment. It's actually the, it's actually

40:55

the faint moment. And for me,

40:57

that's when I get very emotional,

40:59

you know, just watching the film

41:01

and seeing that moment come to

41:03

life. And when he's waiting and

41:05

trying to talk to Ross as

41:07

the island is shutting down for

41:10

the winter, for me, that's the

41:12

other big moment, because he's so

41:14

anxious to talk to her. And

41:16

she's lost in thought about Bright

41:18

Bill. but he's desperate for connection

41:20

with her and and and she

41:22

says how do you know if

41:24

you love someone and he says

41:26

well you should probably tell them

41:28

because he hopes that he'll hear

41:30

it from her, right? And then

41:33

that's another missed opportunity. And she

41:35

says, what if it's too late?

41:37

And he realizes, oh, she's not

41:39

talking about me. And he says,

41:41

I wouldn't know. And then in

41:43

the next, in the next moment,

41:45

he's vanished. So when he goes

41:47

to bed, he doesn't go to

41:49

sleep. He just lays there with

41:51

his eyes open. So there's a

41:53

lot of pain built into this

41:56

whole thing, for sure. But I

41:58

don't, it's not a sad movie,

42:00

it's an affirming movie. You know,

42:02

I think that you've got, you've

42:04

got to have those boundaries. I

42:06

would say, I describe it as

42:08

a playground. Like, you need to,

42:10

you need to, you need to

42:12

put fences up and find your

42:14

boundaries so that you can go

42:17

right up to the edge and

42:19

play these things and let them

42:21

breathe. That's why you do it.

42:23

Because you need that. You need

42:25

that tension. You need that emotional

42:27

ballast. Well, thank you so much

42:29

for sharing that, Chris. That's really

42:31

beautiful. And I think, like, as

42:33

an aside, like, this film will

42:35

encourage people to say the thing

42:37

before it's too late. And I

42:40

think that's going to be a

42:42

beautiful legacy of this film. We

42:44

should talk about the ending, Chris.

42:46

It's incredibly bit of sweet. I

42:48

know there are some slight deviations

42:50

from the novel, but you leave

42:52

things open for sequels in the

42:54

way that... the original novel did,

42:56

which of course later had to

42:58

further films. Can you tell me

43:00

about like constructing sort of the

43:03

final act of this film and

43:05

any kind of dilemmas you had

43:07

as you came came to this

43:09

point in the film and were

43:11

trying to land the plane? We've

43:13

spoken a lot about planes in

43:15

this conversation. Was it a tricky

43:17

one to get right? Yeah, absolutely.

43:19

I would say the very beginning

43:21

of the film and the very

43:23

very end were the two that

43:26

were boarded. the most as we

43:28

searched for the right balance. There's

43:30

a comedy battle. when the robots

43:32

try to catch Ross and we

43:34

need that catharsis and that fun

43:36

so that we can just like

43:38

just relax and have, you know,

43:40

cheer, right? But then we also

43:42

have to recognize that there's a

43:44

moment between bright bill and Ross

43:46

and literally figuring out where Ross

43:49

would be. This is where I

43:51

give so much credit to this.

43:53

That's where I started. That's where

43:55

I stay. I still do storyboarding.

43:57

I will always consider myself a

43:59

story artist. primarily. And one of

44:01

my story artists kept pointing out

44:03

Andy, he said, you have her

44:05

getting on the ship twice. And

44:07

he's like, he's like, I just

44:09

feel like that's too complex. And

44:12

he was always pointing it out

44:14

very gently, but very insistently saying

44:16

you're getting this wrong. And there

44:18

came a day where I was

44:20

like, you know what, he's absolutely

44:22

right. I rethought the way the

44:24

choreography would work. So that and

44:26

that was how I, the solve.

44:28

was that, and it was a

44:30

good solve, I think, again, full

44:33

credit to Andy, where Ross, because

44:35

she thinks there's nothing left for

44:37

her, she doesn't know bright bills

44:39

come back, she's willing to get

44:41

on the ship, I had her

44:43

fully get on the ship, but

44:45

then I engineered the bit where

44:47

she interrupts that and makes a

44:49

run for it, and she was

44:51

this close to being captured, right?

44:53

close but she ran off it

44:56

was so much better all credit

44:58

again to Andy and to Heidi

45:00

Joe Gilbert my head of story

45:02

for keeping after me about that

45:04

because I kept like oh no

45:06

it's gonna work I can figure

45:08

this out and I had to

45:10

confess to myself and no it's

45:12

not working something's wrong and that

45:14

moment of like realization that yeah

45:16

she should only get the ship

45:19

so that re-engineered everything and and

45:21

it was like oh my god

45:23

this is a beautiful thing because

45:25

when she does finally does finally

45:27

get pulled against her will up

45:29

into the ship. Now there's only

45:31

one character that can reach her

45:33

and that's Brightville because he can

45:35

fly. So suddenly the landscape and

45:37

the engineering, the structure worked. We

45:39

could have the animals on the

45:42

ground left behind and we had

45:44

this beautiful setup so that we

45:46

could have that resolution in a

45:48

private space in a stressful moment

45:50

and bright bill was all alone

45:52

because he's the only one that

45:54

could finally reach her and you

45:56

look at it now and you're

45:58

like well it's simple why didn't

46:00

why didn't you do that in

46:02

the first place right? But sometimes

46:05

it takes a while to find

46:07

that again it was really hard

46:09

because you could do it. There's

46:11

a lot of things you could

46:13

do at the end. Yeah, well

46:15

it's a brilliant ending. Speaking of

46:17

endings, we are running out of

46:19

time, Chris, but I want to

46:21

ask one more question before I

46:23

do. And it's kind of along

46:25

the lines of like climate fiction,

46:28

because I think this is one

46:30

of the most pronounced examples of

46:32

mass market climate fiction, or clify

46:34

as they call it. Obviously, like

46:36

great films have existed before that

46:38

have grappled with the climate crisis,

46:40

but they're usually smaller productions. They

46:42

weren't big family event movies the

46:44

way the way the world robot

46:46

was. And obviously. And obviously... yes

46:49

other movies fold climate crisis adjacent

46:51

ideas into their films but usually

46:53

through metaphor so it really is

46:55

just this film and Wally that

46:57

have kind of dared to tackle

46:59

it head-on what's your advice for

47:01

screenwriters who are horrified by what

47:03

they're seeing and they want to

47:05

make art that mobilizes people into

47:07

action on a mass scale but

47:09

you know these films obviously still

47:12

need to entertain how do you

47:14

thread that needle successfully? by not

47:16

hitting it too hard, by not,

47:18

because people get it, coming at

47:20

it maybe more sideways. And again,

47:22

like, it's a concept that is,

47:24

that is, in a lot of

47:26

ways, not hard to understand. So

47:28

it's one of the things I

47:30

think that we were able to

47:32

do in this film, is there's

47:35

a lot of different things that

47:37

are, Just a lot of heavy

47:39

things going on and we were

47:41

able to weave them into the

47:43

story and make it feel. just

47:45

like part of the fabric of

47:47

the story, so that you're not

47:49

driving into it like head-on and

47:51

really, you know, really like hammering

47:53

it too loud and hard. Because

47:55

I think that allowing people to

47:58

empathize and connect with the characters,

48:00

you're able to drive them through

48:02

situations so that you're feeling it

48:04

from the inside. is the best

48:06

way to go. I tend to,

48:08

I tend to, and there's another

48:10

that is related to what we

48:12

were talking about before, I tend

48:14

to avoid things in my real

48:16

life. It's hard for me to,

48:18

like if I know somebody, I

48:21

see them coming, I generally go

48:23

the other direction. I don't know

48:25

why. I sort of, I tend

48:27

to approach story points and write

48:29

things the way I live my

48:31

life. I kind of veer. ask

48:33

them and touch on them and

48:35

then keep going. Instead of grabbing

48:37

them and confronting them, you know,

48:39

so I think it worked well,

48:42

I think in Milan and it

48:44

worked like well here because it

48:46

was, it just, and so that,

48:48

and so those moments where you

48:50

do stop and really, and really

48:52

grapple with something, it becomes really

48:54

resonant if you, if you, are

48:56

more gentle with it. For the

48:58

most part does that make sense?

49:00

I don't know if that makes

49:02

sense Yeah, yeah, I also now

49:05

know Chris to not be offended

49:07

if I'm walking towards you on

49:09

the street and you cross the

49:11

road This is not personal I

49:13

don't know why and then later

49:15

on I'm like why did I

49:17

do that like I can't even

49:19

tell you how many times I

49:21

sit around like days and weeks

49:23

later and I'm like Why did

49:25

like I worked at Disney for

49:28

you know 20 years and you

49:30

shy to ask people for a

49:32

drawing? And you know, I was

49:34

there, I worked every day next

49:36

to Glenn Keene and other artists

49:38

and I'm like, why didn't I?

49:40

Could you do the drawing? And

49:42

I'm like, like,

49:44

do do that. I'll

49:46

do that later,

49:48

I'll do that

49:51

someday. I'll do that And

49:53

then you're like,

49:55

you know someday.

49:57

at the time,

49:59

you're like, like, you know

50:01

know. Look kind

50:03

of the message

50:05

of this movie. like,

50:07

you know. this has

50:09

been such a

50:11

fascinating of the Thank

50:14

you so much for your

50:16

time. for this film has luck

50:18

in award season. Oh, thank you,

50:20

thank you. Thank you so much for your time.

50:22

Thanks for this film. You've been listening to You've

50:24

been listening to Script Thank you Thank

50:26

you so much for tuning

50:28

in. in. A reminder that if you

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