0:03

Secrets from a coach thrive and maximize

0:06

your potential in the evolving workplace . Your

0:11

weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish

0:13

and Laura Thompson Stavely of Phenomenal

0:15

Training .

0:25

Debs Law , are you all right ?

0:26

Yeah , I am feeling really

0:29

sparkly and twinkly and

0:31

reflective at this

0:33

end point in this year . How

0:35

about you ?

0:36

I think it's the same Law . On

0:39

one hand , it seems to have gone super , super

0:41

, super , super quick , yet on the other hand

0:43

, when we look back and see what we have , gone super , super , super , super quick

0:45

. Yet on the other hand , when we look back and see what we have actually achieved , it's a lot

0:48

that we have done in a year

0:50

and it's incredible and I'm

0:52

always really grateful that we've had that

0:54

opportunity to work across so

0:56

many different people and

0:59

industries and just being

1:01

in rooms with people or on Zoom or wherever

1:03

. Yeah , it's

1:05

a real good achievement to just stop and

1:07

go , wow , look what we have done .

1:10

It's amazing and

1:13

the we there absolutely I mean just

1:15

the collaborations and the support

1:17

and just the amazing people

1:19

that we've had . You know , ourselves and the

1:21

team have just had such a fortunate

1:24

you know encounters this

1:26

year . It's been brilliant , yeah very lucky

1:28

. Really lucky and I guess what

1:30

we wanted to do in this fourth

1:33

and final episode in

1:35

our four-part focus looking at

1:37

the success essence yes

1:39

. So where we've looked at a range

1:41

of things from essence of decision

1:43

making yeah Essence of successful

1:46

teams , essence of great collaborations

1:48

this one is looking at what's the essence

1:50

of great leadership and

1:54

I want to hear your thoughts on why we've called

1:56

it leadership with a big or little L . So

1:59

explain that and then we'll do a bit of a

2:01

kind of an explainer and then a bit of an overview

2:04

of some takeaways . So what's this

2:06

idea about leadership with a big L or

2:08

a little L ?

2:11

The big L is , I think , when you've got it in your

2:13

job title and the little

2:15

L is the fact that we are all leaders in

2:17

some form of another , depending

2:20

on you know what we do . You don't

2:22

have to be a leader job title

2:24

to be a leader and therefore

2:26

that little l is to say that you still

2:28

have a massive impact on people . You

2:31

still involve people . You engage with people

2:33

even though it's not in your job title , but you're very

2:35

good at leading projects

2:39

people . You lead your family

2:41

. Maybe at home you leave your friends . You

2:43

know there is so much that you do without

2:46

even realizing . So , for me , we

2:48

are all leaders of our lives

2:50

. Um , how we go about it will be

2:52

different , um , but I think we don't

2:54

have to have it as a job title to know that

2:56

we can be a leader and an inspiration to others

2:59

.

2:59

Do you remember that conversation we had with that amazing person

3:01

? That was in a session we were running and we'll

3:03

do a bit of a roundup of sort of who we've got to interact

3:06

with this year in a moment . But I remember

3:08

, um , they were saying to us oh no

3:10

, I couldn't go for a promotion as a

3:12

, as a senior leader , oh no

3:14

, I just don't have that leadership experience . And

3:16

then they go on to tell us that they've got eight children

3:18

, they run a social group

3:21

, they're in charge of all of

3:23

the charity . You know kind of Macmillan

3:25

Fridays , and you think what ?

3:27

You are a leader , my friend .

3:29

It's just sometimes there's this

3:31

smoke and mirrors that is put up around

3:33

this being a leader , as if you've

3:35

suddenly got to be perfect or you've got to be

3:37

a different type of person and

3:39

actually that leadership , those

3:41

kind of acts of leadership in that moment could

3:43

be . You're just there on the

3:45

plane and you happen to be the one by the emergency exit

3:48

and suddenly you have to take charge in

3:50

that moment . And that's the description

3:52

I've sort of had in my mind sometimes is even

3:55

those people that are just they describe themselves as reluctant

3:57

leaders .

3:58

They just can see a challenge and they've just

4:00

got to go and do something about it because they know

4:02

they can make stuff better and I think

4:04

, think , and that's what's important is that we

4:07

have all got it within us . And to

4:09

direct , to coach

4:11

, to mentor , to support , to guide

4:13

, to nurture , to care

4:15

, they're basic human skills

4:17

really . And yeah , we just

4:19

happen to package it up as , yeah , you're either a leader because

4:21

you've got leader in your title , or you're a leader

4:24

with a small L because you're doing it anyway

4:26

. So , yeah , I love it . The same

4:28

skills apply .

4:29

Yeah , so we just did a little

4:32

roundup of well , actually , how many leaders

4:34

have we had the fortune of working

4:36

with this year , whether it's kind of

4:38

one of us directly together

4:40

or in our team and it

4:42

was quite remarkable actually when you started to tot

4:44

it up and then , which is what then

4:47

boils down to , what we have observed

4:49

is just the essence that connects

4:51

all of those leaders we've seen , in all shapes

4:53

and sizes , in terms of what makes them successful

4:55

ones . So , devs , give us a bit . What was the

4:57

rough tot up ? Approximate amount we came

5:00

to .

5:00

So this was just in-room people

5:02

. This was when , in in real life people in

5:04

a room with us . In the room with them , we had

5:06

around 1700

5:09

people that we'd impacted

5:11

in the past , in like in 2024

5:13

, which is like crazy . When

5:15

we started to add it up go , oh yeah for

5:18

better or worse . You can ask them to

5:21

engage with our madness . Maybe I'm thinking

5:23

, oh okay , but yeah , that's incredible

5:25

when you think about and they're just the people that

5:27

we've done in room , not those

5:29

that we might have done online and virtual

5:31

workshops and um , yeah

5:33

, that's just every physically being in a room

5:36

with people 1700 , which

5:38

is a lot of leaders who have all

5:40

got that leadership capability with

5:42

a small L or a big L , and

5:44

they've just been amazing . But we did

5:46

say there was one major thing

5:49

that they had in common , wasn't it

5:51

Laura ?

5:51

Absolutely . Go on , then tell us . That

5:54

is the ability to have

5:56

great relationships with

5:58

the people in which you work with , and that

6:00

doesn't mean everything has to be hunky-dory and

6:03

smooth running all the time . In fact

6:05

, some of the best leaders have been able to lean into

6:07

those challenging and that doesn't mean everything has to be hunky-dory

6:09

and smooth running all the time . In fact , some of the best leaders have been able to lean into those

6:11

challenging , really

6:16

difficult scenarios that some of them have been faced

6:18

with and just had a compassion and

6:20

human first in terms of having those good relationships . And

6:22

yeah , I don't think I've ever sort

6:24

of seen that . You know , when people say

6:26

what does it mean to be a good leader ? They sort

6:28

of sometimes go we've got to be strategic , got to be this

6:30

and that . Actually you've got to be

6:32

nice human . Yeah

6:34

, it's relationships to be relatable

6:37

to be able to carefully

6:40

nurture relationships , particularly

6:42

if there are some . There's trust that's

6:44

been broken in that organization . You might have inherited

6:46

stuff and I guess what sort of excited

6:49

us about preparing for this episode is

6:51

I bet you've

6:53

that everyone's sort of listening has got relationships

6:56

in their lives and we've either learned the hard way or the

6:58

easy way how important it is to nurture

7:00

those things and lean into the challenges and

7:02

that that skill set apply that

7:05

in as a leader and you're already

7:07

, um , you know , uh , going to be more successful

7:09

. Because the definition

7:11

of a leader is you've got a follower and and you

7:14

know people . To create great followers

7:17

, people have got to believe in you , they've got to trust

7:19

you and they've got to know that you're being real from

7:21

a relationship point of view . So we

7:24

just thought that was a really nice way to wrap

7:26

up this year 2024 , whenever

7:28

you happen to be listening and almost

7:30

a bit of an inspiration for anyone out there that's toying with

7:33

the idea of shall I Shart and I

7:35

oh no , leaders , don't look like me

7:37

, or I'm not a leader or I don't come

7:39

from a family where people are senior

7:41

leaders . But actually get over that

7:43

because that's historically future

7:45

, looking forward . It's going to need

7:47

leaders who are able to relate with

7:50

people from the front list of the

7:52

front line to the back of

7:54

the back line investors . You're going to

7:56

need to be able to connect relationships

7:58

, and those are those everyday

8:00

skills that we have to practice every day anyway .

8:03

So why not ? You go for that position

8:05

? Yeah , and I think that's the thing . What we've

8:07

seen is , you know you're not a copycat

8:09

of somebody , of somebody else , somebody else . You

8:11

, you might have role models that you

8:14

aspire to be like , but

8:16

actually you still have to bring yourself into

8:18

that , because you know people want you

8:20

to be authentic , and that's the word we've

8:23

used a lot , and when we question people and say

8:25

so , what do you mean by being authentic

8:28

? And it's always around . It has

8:30

to connect your heart . Mind

8:32

and soul have to be of one so

8:34

that you are congruent with everything

8:37

about who you are and what you bring , and

8:39

with your purpose . And

8:41

that's why people small

8:43

leaders you know little l leaders

8:45

, not small leaders , little l leaders , big

8:47

l leaders um , those

8:49

are great have all worked on understanding

8:52

what their role is and where they fit

8:54

and what their purpose is . And it's

8:57

always , I suppose , that you can't

8:59

quite touch it . Is that intangible . I'm doing it because I want to make a difference and you go , distill

9:01

that down . What does that actually mean ? In'm doing it because I want to

9:03

make a difference and you go , we'll distill

9:05

that down . What does that actually mean

9:07

in reality ? And it's really hard to actually

9:09

um to to come up with one

9:11

thing that means I'm going to make a difference

9:14

, because it has so many um

9:16

different avenues and it has so many different

9:18

things because it comes from you

9:20

, um , and none of us are the same person

9:22

. So I think that's something to always

9:25

remember . You bring you , you

9:27

might learn from the good and you might learn

9:29

from the rubbish people that you've met , but you still

9:31

make it yours and are congruent

9:34

with who you are , with your values and purpose

9:36

in life .

9:38

I think it's really interesting that bit about being authentic

9:40

, because it's that balance between

9:42

so let's say that you are a leader

9:45

big L , little L and there is some stuff

9:47

going down in your organization and it's impacting

9:49

you . Do you pretend everything's all

9:51

right and smile and wave and say to

9:53

everyone , oh no , everything's fine , but

9:56

you know everyone can tell there's a facade . Or

9:58

do you just let it all out

10:00

and you vent and you process

10:03

, live in front of your people and I guess so

10:05

much about life , um now

10:07

, and whether you're a leader or a formal or

10:09

informal . Is that balance ? So

10:11

I guess it's being real and authentic , yeah

10:14

, and yet mindful of the impact

10:16

you're having on those people in the room at that moment ?

10:18

definitely which is how emotionally

10:20

intelligent are you really comes back

10:22

to that whole piece around

10:24

EI , um , and how

10:26

aware are you of yourself

10:28

and what impact you have on others , um

10:31

, how you manage your emotions through that and regulate

10:33

your emotions , because , yeah , if

10:35

we all just went around maybe saying

10:37

exactly what we thought , and you

10:40

know that might not go down well . So it's

10:42

all about your levels of emotional

10:44

intelligence , and

10:50

I know we always bang on about that law , don't we ? But I think it was Daniel Goldman's quote that

10:52

says 80% of your success will be based on your

10:54

emotional intelligence and the relationships

10:56

you build because of that . And that's

10:58

always when we ever put that up . People go

11:00

. What do you mean ? I go ? 80%

11:03

is because of you . You know not what

11:05

you do or how you are

11:07

, because everybody enters into the world of work at

11:09

a certain IQ level , but

11:11

what differentiates you is

11:13

your levels of emotional intelligence , or common

11:16

sense , as somebody once told me . So , yeah

11:18

, which is true , and we see that all the time

11:21

.

11:21

Yeah , Because if I can predict how you're going to be

11:23

, rather than moody , then I'm much

11:25

more confident to place my trust in you . If

11:28

I don't know actually are they going to blow hot or cold

11:30

today , because there's

11:33

not much emotional consistency , then

11:35

that's going to impact whether I have conversations

11:38

with you or not , because I'm not going to be able to predict

11:40

that . It's an interesting one

11:42

. I've shared this story before , but I remember

11:44

seeing a CEO of

11:46

a large insurance company at this conference

11:49

basically tell the room yeah

11:52

, I am a bit worried about the impact AI

11:54

is going to have on the insurance industry and

11:57

sort of left it there .

11:59

And that was it .

12:03

And that's where I learned in that moment

12:05

there's authentic

12:08

, but authentic isn't just . I'm just going to talk about

12:10

the problem . Authentic then would have been there's authentic , but authentic isn't just , I'm just going to talk about the problem . Authentic

12:13

then would have been there's a problem , everyone , and

12:15

all it needed was one more sentence , which is

12:17

but I'm sure , together with the intelligence

12:20

in the room , we'll be able to work our way through it . It

12:22

was missing this five second

12:24

bit at the end , not to say there is

12:26

a problem , but don't worry about it . There

12:28

is a problem , but I'm sure between us we're able

12:30

to work it out , to send that message of hope

12:32

. And it was in that moment thinking

12:35

, oh , my goodness , like that is actually

12:37

what it means to be inspiring leader

12:39

is do I frighten people or

12:41

do I alert them to what's out

12:43

there but reassure them with we'll

12:45

have a plan or we're coming up with a plan . And

12:48

that was , for me , a really interesting insight

12:50

into what does it mean to be an authentic leader

12:52

. It's not just going around blurting out how you

12:54

feel really inside , because how

12:56

you feel one day , one sleep might

12:59

transform . You know , no feeling is final , which

13:01

is why I think you've got to tread carefully using

13:03

other people to process your emotions

13:05

unless it is professional a professional

13:08

is able to do that or a trusted advisor

13:10

or a confidant . Because sometimes you

13:12

can't trust those emotions , debs , can you ? Because now

13:14

you might feel one day might be completely different the

13:16

next , and if I've just spoken

13:18

to 100 people at a quarterly catch up

13:21

, how I was feeling on a Monday

13:23

it might have changed in the Friday

13:25

after . And then that's where people start to lose trust

13:27

. Yeah , 100 .

13:28

Oh my God you're so right than where people start to lose trust . Yeah , a hundred . And then , oh my God

13:30

, you're so right , laura , because I think

13:32

that's why we have to check in with ourselves , and

13:34

we would do that regardless to go . Actually

13:37

, how am I feeling today ? You know that whole

13:39

lovely check-in . Actually , you know what I'm

13:41

not feeling great . Okay , so I can either bring

13:43

everybody down with me or

13:45

I can just be honest to say , look

13:51

, it's not been a great day . I know we've got loads to do , so let's have a look at how we can move

13:53

it forward together . It's lifting it back up into the

13:55

action , orientated , without sitting

13:57

and swimming in all of the stuff

14:00

, and there is a time and a place to just go blah

14:02

, but that's with your trusted sources

14:04

, not just a hundred people that are looking

14:06

at you to be inspired or create

14:09

the energy or the vision or the passion . And

14:11

, yeah , because you can influence

14:14

a room and you have a massive impact

14:16

on people . So I think your intent

14:18

has to be the right intent

14:20

. Is my intent here , to be

14:23

honest ? Is it transparent

14:26

? Is it courage ? Is it bravery ? Is it

14:28

what ? Is it ? What's my intent ? Rather

14:30

than just go blur , um , because

14:33

actually that might not be appropriate for this

14:35

audience right now . It doesn't mean it won't ever

14:37

be , but it's being mindful

14:39

, as you said , of the impact that

14:41

what do I want to have , the impact to be , what do I want

14:43

people to walk away from that meeting

14:46

or that conversation or that conference and thinking

14:48

or knowing , um , and if I

14:50

, I'm the one in control of that , I

14:53

can make or break it because of the

14:55

way I haven't regulated myself .

14:56

Really , what's it the car covers on his speaker

14:58

stagecraft program . It's what do I want people

15:00

to think , feel , do yeah , as

15:02

a result , yeah , as a result of this .

15:04

Yes , this presentation moment yeah

15:07

this , this interaction moment , yeah , yeah , no

15:09

, feel , do , yeah , and that's , and that's

15:11

the same in anything . And that's why I think you can

15:13

be a leader with a big l or a little l , because

15:15

if you stop and just think for a moment , what

15:17

do I want the audience to know , feel and do as

15:19

a result of our interaction ? That's

15:22

a great framework to just move

15:24

through a conversation with and still be

15:26

sorry

15:29

. The cat just thought why would I go ? Hello

15:32

, pussycat , um , how , um

15:34

, yeah , how you're going to be . That's your intent

15:36

, because if your intent is to be

15:38

crazy , random , running

15:41

around like a lunatic , then guess what . That's

15:43

what your audience will know and

15:45

they feel , and they will then do and

15:47

then follow your leads if you like . So it's

15:50

always checking in with yourself first oh

15:52

, love it yeah devs .

15:54

I think that's a really interesting point . You were saying um

15:56

about that in terms of the , the

15:58

mindfulness of it , um from

16:00

a relationship point of view . So , um

16:02

, just to do a little clang

16:05

moment , we've , um

16:07

, we've had an interesting year from a podcast

16:09

perspective . We are apparently in Buzzsprout's

16:12

top 25% of podcasts at

16:14

the moment .

16:15

I know that's mad , isn't it

16:17

?

16:17

Yeah , so we are podcast with

16:19

a big L but we feel like little L . But

16:22

anyway , there we go and we've

16:24

apparently hit how many countries 74

16:27

countries we have been listened to in Wonderful .

16:29

That's amazing , isn't it ? I don't think I could even name 74 countries we have been listened

16:31

to in Wonderful . That's amazing , isn't it ? I don't think I could even name

16:33

74 countries , which is probably more

16:35

about my level of standard of geography

16:37

than anything else .

16:39

But how bad is that , unless that's one family member

16:41

of ours going on a cruise ?

16:45

Oh damn , that's got out Dialing in , Dialing

16:48

in on the various servers as they go Going

16:51

on the cruise around the world . I love that

16:53

, yeah , but how cool is that though

16:55

?

16:55

law 74 countries yeah

16:57

right , debs , what I've just

16:59

thought of what our ambition should be go

17:01

on for next year .

17:02

What is it ?

17:03

to have an astronaut listening

17:06

to one

17:08

of our episodes okay , let's

17:10

put that as one of our goals .

17:11

Let's put that out there . Okay , let's send it out

17:13

. We've done 74 countries .

17:15

right oh yawn , oh the globe

17:17

. God been there , done it .

17:20

Now we want to hit space .

17:22

Yeah . Okay

17:25

let's put it out there and let's see what we can do . Wonderful

17:27

, yeah

17:30

, when you think also do .

17:30

Wonderful , yeah , when you think also lord , when you think how many downloads

17:33

that we had in 2024 again

17:35

, we're not . We don't normally go

17:37

. Oh my god , this is what we did . But it just blows

17:40

my mind that people like we've

17:42

had 15 000 downloads as

17:44

of the sort of december

17:46

, mid-december mark , um , and you just

17:48

think that's just in 2024 . That is

17:51

crazy . Can't get my head

17:53

around it . Let alone where we are

17:55

at in our total downloads , which

17:57

is nearly 50,000 , isn't

17:59

it ? That doesn't tell you how many people listen on silent

18:01

. Or just

18:03

fast forward .

18:05

Turn that volume knob down .

18:06

Oh God , it's them banging on about leadership again . But

18:10

they're still listening somewhere .

18:12

They are still listening somewhere . Yeah , I

18:15

love that .

18:16

But yeah , that's just who would have thought right

18:18

, I know , I know , we're very privileged

18:20

.

18:20

We're not far off . 50,000 downloads

18:22

, wow , yeah , it's great . And

18:24

, of course , linking it , shoehorning it back into

18:27

relationships , debs , it's

18:33

the you know the aspect in terms of what I'm sure we'll come up with a couple of you know things

18:35

to consider from a relationship point of view . But I think

18:37

that's just what's been really glorious

18:39

about this podcast collaboration

18:41

is those amazing speakers and guests

18:44

that we've had , and to listen

18:46

to real life people

18:48

talking about real life experiences

18:50

, everything from toxic teams , overcoming

18:52

bad boss traumas , dealing with the

18:54

realities of inclusion . You know , in

18:56

the moment We've just had some really

18:58

, yeah , really fantastic guests and

19:00

, as I've been planning our next year's

19:02

program , we've got guests

19:04

ahoy all lined up for that

19:06

. So that's going to be brilliant and

19:09

keeping with this four week or

19:11

five week part mini series

19:13

, and then it just keeps things a bit fresh

19:16

and you know it means that we can

19:18

get a bit of kind of a pace to it all

19:20

as well . So

19:27

back to this one Deb's relationships . So

19:29

what would be some do's and don'ts

19:31

, that just as we wrap up this and obviously

19:34

we'll end on our trademark call to action and share

19:36

the secret but what would be some

19:38

things ? And maybe it links to the emotional intelligence

19:40

bit , but what would be some things to

19:42

consider when , let's

19:45

say , someone is toying with the idea of moving into

19:47

leadership and if actually , in our experience

19:50

, it's the art of relationships that

19:52

actually is going to be the difference

19:54

, with all the wonders of AI , you

19:57

can offload some of that document

19:59

writing . You know there's more and more ways to do

20:01

that . So if that's something that's inhibiting

20:03

someone going for something , actually a lot of that paperwork

20:05

aspect has been processed out

20:07

anyway . It's that in that moment

20:09

do people relate with me and can

20:12

I relate with them ? So what would be your kind

20:14

of roundup of some good things

20:16

to focus ?

20:17

on and consider and to avoid

20:19

. And to avoid . I

20:21

think my things to consider would be

20:23

how can you be visible , not

20:26

just , you know , hide behind a screen , but be visible

20:28

out there , chatting to people

20:30

, getting to

20:32

know people , I think , listening , god , please listen

20:34

, um , and have

20:36

that level of empathy to be able to understand

20:39

it from that person's map of the world

20:41

, not just your own . So creating

20:43

um , we only have our own perception

20:46

, but there may be many others , so how do you you find

20:48

that out ? So for me , it's about being

20:50

curious and inquisitive

20:52

and , I suppose

20:54

, thinking about that understanding and

20:56

that having a level of care

21:00

. I think that's what you've got to . I

21:02

always say , you know , you cannot be

21:04

with people if you don't like people . If

21:06

you don't like people , don't become a people

21:08

person , people manager , because

21:11

that's what the world revolves around

21:13

is connection and , yeah

21:15

, being visible . I think my

21:18

watch-outs would be don't

21:20

get complacent . Don't

21:23

think you're the best of the best at what you're

21:25

doing , because you're not , I

21:28

think also , think that you can't learn

21:30

new things . Don't do that because

21:32

you can . What else

21:34

would be my don't Ego ? Leave

21:36

it at the door . It's not about you . What

21:41

else wouldn't ? I say Just

21:43

, don't be rude and disrespectful , disrespectful

21:46

, really . I'm sure there's

21:48

more , but they're my lists that have just popped into my

21:50

head , as you've asked me that well

21:52

, um , I think it's a great list , debs .

21:54

And just in case there are any little ears listening

21:56

to this , I'll replace a certain word

21:58

that's a four-letter word beginning with d with the

22:00

animal duck . So

22:03

what about that session we ran where

22:05

, basically , this woman has said well , to be honest , I

22:07

just think leadership boils down to one phrase

22:09

don't be a duck . And

22:12

everyone went you're absolutely right

22:14

. And we said well , we can't , we can't write that on the flip

22:16

chart and photograph it as part of the workshop

22:19

takeaways . And they said you can , if all

22:21

24 of us write it . They went right

22:23

, uh

22:25

, yeah , you

22:27

know those kind of . If you're surrounded by sort of duckish

22:30

leaders and there's lots of duck behavior

22:33

going on around , then just even

22:35

that simple act of actually I'm not going

22:37

to be a duck in this scenario could

22:40

be uh , could be the biggest difference . I

22:42

think it's just a moment of caution , because everything

22:45

you were saying around , the things to consider like

22:47

being visible , just want to balance

22:49

that with , and you don't need to pretend to

22:51

be an extrovert if you're actually more

22:53

of an introverted leader .

22:55

You can still be visible as both because

22:58

you can still have a quiet

23:00

presence , a gracefulness about

23:02

you that's not screaming down the corridor

23:04

, running a million miles , jumping up like a lunatic . You

23:06

can still have that gracefulness about you that's not screaming down the corridor , running

23:08

a million miles , jumping up like a lunatic . You can still have that gracefulness , as I think

23:10

that just flows through and that's what people are

23:12

attracted to . I suppose because you just have

23:15

great presence and you're very graceful

23:18

in how you do things yeah , it

23:20

could be .

23:20

if your preference isn't standing there in front of lots of people

23:22

, but you sort of have to do it , then it might mean

23:24

that you top and tail an event and

23:27

then you create the airtime

23:30

for key members

23:32

of your team to have that airtime , if

23:34

actually if they're with that . So I think

23:36

the visibility is also enabling

23:38

your people to be visible means , by very nature

23:40

you're visible as well , so it doesn't always have to be

23:42

you at the front , sort of all the time

23:45

. Yeah , that's a good catch , but enabling

23:47

others to sort of get out there . What do they say ? Great

23:49

leaders create great leaders

23:51

. Is that ?

23:51

right , yes , yes .

23:53

Who's great ?

23:53

great , even more great leaders Something like

23:55

that I can't remember the exact quote . But yeah

23:58

, it is that . It's not all about you , yeah

24:01

.

24:01

Don't be the duck in the room . And if you can't be the

24:03

duck in the room and if you can't spot

24:05

the duck , it might be you . So just do

24:08

a little mirror moment , check in that moment check in on

24:10

that one .

24:11

How aware are you of yourself and the impact

24:13

you're having ?

24:14

yeah , so

24:16

as a call to action dev yeah

24:18

what . What we've uh kind of developed

24:20

. Uh , you know , all unintentionally , he's all stumbled

24:22

along the way , but we have kind of practice makes permanent

24:25

. And now part of one of our things

24:27

is we like to have a call to action . So

24:29

along this kind of conversation there's

24:31

a bit of purpose and a bit of thrust to it

24:33

and a bit of a call to action and then a share

24:35

the secret . So if this has got

24:37

you thinking , there might be someone else in your

24:39

work or home life that you think . Actually I think they

24:41

might enjoy this as well . So I think one of

24:43

our kind of main takeaways we wanted from

24:45

this one is sometimes people shy away

24:48

from going for leadership roles because

24:50

there's an assumption that there's this whole

24:52

type of person only that

24:54

can be a leader . Actually , what we've

24:56

experienced from all those hundreds of people

24:58

that we've seen is leaders come in all shapes

25:00

and sizes . One size fits one

25:02

, and as much variety and diversity

25:05

as there is there out in the workplaces . You

25:07

need that in your , in your leaders as well

25:09

, and if it were to be boiled down to one

25:12

essence of success , it probably could be summarized

25:14

as relationships being able to make

25:17

and maintain great relationships

25:19

in whatever way you do it . So what would

25:21

be your call to action ? Debs to

25:23

end the year on a high .

25:26

Oh , my call to action would be

25:28

to know that you

25:30

have enough information to

25:32

hand at that time when you need it

25:34

, and to trust yourself that

25:36

you know the no .

25:40

Love it , debs . Well , I've got a bit of a cheeky . Naughty

25:42

, share the secret and then I'll do a sort of a straight one .

25:43

No , well , I've got a bit of a cheeky naughty , share the secret , and then I'll do a sort of a

25:45

straight one .

25:45

Go on , that'll be you , no ? So let's say

25:47

there is a duck of a leader

25:50

in your life . Maybe

25:52

you send this to them . Get

25:56

them to listen in , get them to listen in

25:58

and then say , oh , I didn't mean to send that one , Sorry yeah

26:00

.

26:00

I meant the other one , the other one , the other

26:03

one About saboteur and toxic bosses

26:05

. Oh , damn

26:08

.

26:08

But , yes , genuinely share the secret so

26:13

you might have a mate in your network who you know would just make the most fantastic

26:15

leader . But they've just sort of

26:17

procrastinated , they've shied away from it

26:19

a bit . Get them to listen to this , and

26:22

if our roundup of 1,700

26:24

leaders that we have seen face-to

26:27

to face in a room between us all has

26:30

shown , then you know that's pretty sturdy

26:32

evidence that actually it doesn't require

26:34

a certificate , it doesn't require

26:36

a certain background or education . It's

26:38

the ability in that moment to be able to make and

26:41

maintain great relationships , and I bet

26:43

your friend is brilliant at that . So get

26:45

to listen to this and it might fire up some

26:47

new year intentions .

26:49

Nice one . I like that , laura . And then , yeah

26:52

, this is when are we back ? Because this

26:54

is our last one , isn't it ? So we're back

26:56

in a couple of weeks , aren't ? We we're

26:58

taking a bit of a break to get our planning

27:00

sorted .

27:01

Loving your attention to detail there . Devs

27:03

, we're back .

27:05

Some point soon . Some point soon . Yeah

27:08

, we don't know when , but we are , we're back

27:10

in whenever it is next year .

27:12

We're taking a week off , so our

27:14

next episode will be Friday

27:16

, the 10th of January 10th of January or whenever you get

27:18

to listen to this . Yeah , so it'll still be in the

27:20

same sequence , but it's going to be a new

27:22

topic . It's going to be a new topic

27:24

. Yes , yes , and

27:27

this appeals to all you astronauts out there who are looking for .

27:29

Some light listening when you're floating

27:31

around in outer space .

27:33

Looking at those wonderful things . And they think , oh

27:35

my goodness , if that's what's going on in the world of work down there , I'm

27:37

going to stay up here .

27:38

Thank , you Get out of the way . Yeah

27:40

, I love that . Oh

27:49

, it's been so cool . As you said , the topics we've covered have been really diverse and they've been given

27:51

to us as well by other people that have said oh , it'd be great if you could

27:53

talk about . So , yeah , thanks

27:55

to everyone who's done that and the guests and

27:58

just having this time to just chat about

28:00

stuff . I think it's just been a real privilege

28:02

to do it .

28:04

So , bring on next year , but have a good

28:06

festive season law and

28:08

be merry and bright and sparkly

28:11

oh , thank you , debs , and you

28:13

too , and look after yourself everyone out there

28:15

because there's only one you and

28:17

it's really important that you feel as good

28:19

as you can .

28:20

So um love it , devs see you

28:22

on the other side . See you on the other side

28:24

. Yes , alright , love you .

28:26

Bye we

28:31

hope you've enjoyed this podcast . We'd

28:33

love to hear from you . Email us

28:35

at contact at secretsfromacoachcom

28:38

, or follow us on insta

28:40

or facebook . If you're a spotify listener

28:42

, give us a rating , as it's easier for

28:44

people to find us , and if you want to know

28:46

more , visit our website , wwwsecretsfromacoachcom

28:51

. And sign up for our newsletter

28:53

here to cheer you on and help

28:55

you thrive in the ever-changing world of work

28:57

. Bye

29:04

.