0:03

Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise

0:06

your potential in the evolving workplace . Your

0:11

weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish

0:13

and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal

0:15

Training . Debs

0:24

, laura , how are you doing ? I'm

0:26

doing very well , thank you . And , by the way , debs , did

0:28

you read that 130 page

0:30

document I sent you in Fontaine

0:32

last week at 13.26

0:34

?

0:35

Maybe I didn't actually , Laura . When

0:37

was that ? Did you say ?

0:39

Internal voice . Why didn't she

0:41

read that email ? I put so

0:43

many hours of effort into it . If

0:46

only and

0:48

this is what this topic is going to be all about

0:50

on this episode , debs , isn't it which

0:52

is fourth in our four-part focus

0:55

, looking at how to reduce

0:57

workplace drama we

0:59

thought it might be quite cool to end

1:01

looking at how do you work well with

1:04

your opposite , your yin to your yang

1:06

. So , debs , I might like writing

1:08

130 page documents

1:11

.

1:11

I don't by the way , spoiler alert I was going to say

1:13

I do know you don't , but I get where you're coming

1:15

from .

1:18

And then what happens if you're working with people who just have

1:20

a fundamentally different set of

1:22

preferences in terms of how they like to work

1:24

. So

1:30

, before we look at some practical aspects , debs , how much of a common theme is

1:33

this in either your one-to-ones or the workshops that you're facilitating this

1:35

idea of , oh , how do I work with people that

1:37

just have a different working style

1:39

for myself ? So how much of a live topic is this

1:41

right now ?

1:42

It is a live topic and it does come up

1:44

in actually in most coaching

1:46

, most one-to-ones , most team stuff

1:48

, definitely in some of the workshops that we do , laura

1:50

, because it's just this well , they don't

1:53

get me , or I don't

1:55

know how to get the best out of them , or I ask

1:57

them to do something . They don't do it and when

1:59

you start talking about they just might be different

2:02

to you , they might have an opposite approach . What

2:08

do talking about ? They just might be different to you , they might be , have an opposite approach . What

2:10

do you know about them ? It's like what do you mean ? I've got to find out about them first . You know

2:12

it's like because if you know yourself , you know what you like don't like , and therefore you've got

2:14

to find out what other people do like don't

2:16

like , how to work well with them , how what

2:19

they do want to hear , how to communicate

2:21

and I know we do a lot when we

2:23

do our insights profiles for people , isn't

2:25

it , Lord ? It's like the magic

2:27

happens when they get that 18-page

2:29

report and they look at the working with

2:31

your opposite , as it gets called in insights

2:33

, and you can see light bulbs going

2:36

off all over the place and it

2:38

is really , really important to create

2:40

, I suppose , that harmony in working

2:43

together . Otherwise it just . How

2:45

do we complement each other , how do we embrace

2:47

the differences , how do we use that in inverted

2:49

commas so that there is harmony

2:51

, which , you know , avoids any

2:53

conflict or inefficiencies , which is ultimately

2:56

what we all want to do . Right , we want to be effective

2:59

and we want to have harmonious working relationships

3:01

, so why would we not find

3:04

out about our opposites if we just are clashing

3:06

all the time ?

3:07

And you use the word harmony . I think what's really

3:10

interesting here in this second

3:12

half of this shape-shifting world

3:14

of work decade we're in , so the mid-2020s

3:17

is we could have been talking about this

3:19

20 , 30 years ago . I mean . There's always been

3:21

an interest in introverts versus

3:23

extroverts , for example , and maybe

3:25

a bit more of a fresh take on ambivert . You

3:27

know , we can all sort of be a bit of it , but the thing with

3:29

hybrid working or the

3:31

thing with flexible working , where we might

3:34

not always have that in-room chemistry

3:36

to smooth things out , is

3:38

suddenly it might be a lot more visible

3:41

those differences in working

3:43

preferences . So those people who will

3:45

sit there quietly and read through lots

3:47

of detail and prepare for a meeting and

3:50

those people for whom prefer to maybe

3:52

do it on the fly and kind of shoot from the

3:54

hip and ask some disruptive questions

3:56

right there in the midst of it and where

3:59

we might have sat next to each other and there would have

4:01

been that familiar rapport . If

4:03

now the only time you see each other is an online Teams

4:05

call once a week , it's going to become even more obvious

4:07

those differences , and I guess what can

4:09

then lead to is if all I can see is the difference

4:12

, what you haven't done in relation to

4:14

what I've done , then that's going to create

4:16

irritation , and if there's irritation

4:18

, that's going to link to stress and pressure

4:20

and et cetera , et cetera .

4:22

Yeah , you're so right , laura

4:24

, and I think , interestingly , when you

4:26

were on so many Tombs

4:28

calls , I was like they

4:30

do sometimes feel like that . They do sometimes feel

4:32

like that Zoom or Teams

4:34

call and also that body language

4:37

of the different preferences as well . So

4:39

you might have someone that is really thinking

4:41

about it , but their facial expression may

4:43

look like they're angry or they might be cross

4:46

. And if you're on the other side

4:48

, where you just feed off body language

4:50

and want to have some nods going

4:53

on to make sure that you're on the right

4:55

track , so there's an interaction from a non-verbal

4:57

communication point of view that can

4:59

also cause havoc . Because

5:01

if someone's sitting there quite stony

5:04

faced and they're really intensely looking

5:06

on the screen , you might read

5:08

that as somebody that is not interested or is

5:10

not happy , but it may be

5:12

their way of processing stuff . So I

5:15

think we've got to be smarter at

5:17

reading the body language , not trying

5:19

to guess it , because that obviously doesn't work

5:21

, but again , having a conversation

5:23

to go , how do you like to work ? What

5:26

do you see ? If I'm on a screen and

5:28

you see me concentrating , it doesn't mean I think

5:30

you're rubbish or you'll think you're talking a load of crap

5:32

. It just means I'm processing it in

5:34

my head , so my face might

5:36

look different to what you would expect

5:38

. So yeah , I had someone say

5:42

she had a resting bitch face on a and I

5:44

went what do you mean ? And she said , well , I

5:46

sit on a call like this . And she changed her

5:48

face completely and I went whoa , ok

5:50

, I get where you're coming from .

5:54

Maybe we need to work on that

5:56

a little bit , it's all that stuff .

5:58

I think that we just need to find out

6:00

.

6:05

And , of course , when life is sweet and there's enough time for all the work that needs to be done to

6:07

be done in a way in a nice ordered fashion , these differences are a bit less apparent

6:09

. Yes , the thing is , it's when you are least

6:11

got your game face on , when you're least

6:13

feeling on top of your workload , that

6:16

these kind of real preferences

6:18

, you know , can sort of leak out

6:20

and potentially cause a challenge . I

6:22

think what's quite interesting is if we just

6:24

take the sort of the first one of introverse

6:26

extroverse , I know you've got some great stuff that

6:29

can be some other things that raise our awareness . But

6:31

before we sort of leap into looking at

6:34

some of these ways in which the yin to the yang

6:36

can get the best out of each other , how important

6:39

is emotional intelligence in

6:42

all of this ? So , am I right in thinking

6:44

Debs , anyone can work with anyone as

6:46

long as they're able to manage themselves

6:49

and read the room . Is that ?

6:51

Ultimately , fundamentally , that's

6:53

it . Room 101

6:55

, that's as simple as it can be

6:57

is know yourself and read

7:00

the room and then regulate your emotions

7:02

around that , but also connect with the other

7:04

person . Well , that is it Seek

7:07

to understand , but people complicate

7:09

it .

7:09

Then to be understood and then to be understood

7:11

.

7:11

Yeah , but people complicate it massively

7:14

and there's so

7:16

many , like we've talked about on this series . There

7:18

are so many layers to us as

7:20

humans that come to play sometimes

7:22

that it's really hard

7:25

. But if in that moment , you have a level

7:27

of awareness , real awareness , from an

7:29

intelligent , emotionally intelligent perspective

7:32

, and if your intent is

7:34

to have a positive interaction or a

7:36

positive impact on the people that you're talking

7:38

to or with , you'll come across

7:40

like that even you know . So . Emotional

7:43

intelligence is like the

7:45

gift that keeps on giving um

7:47

and to invest , understanding the

7:49

impact , the importance of it . If

7:51

you get that right , oh , you'll be

7:53

sailing , but if you get it wrong , create

7:56

waves and choppy waters , as you

7:58

always talk about . Yeah

8:00

, for me it's like get that bit right , the

8:02

rest will just feel like easy

8:04

to some extent , but it doesn't always

8:07

work that way . We love complicating stuff , yeah

8:09

, but of course that's why a lot of this stuff can't be automated

8:11

. No , oh my God , here we go , Laura Tell me

8:14

, tell me .

8:14

Just shoe on that in prize it

8:16

in . Come on , we've got three under

8:18

our belt . We haven't really talked about robots that much this

8:20

year .

8:20

No , we haven't , and also Laura , especially

8:23

as we've done over 50,000 downloads

8:25

by the time this episode goes out . Yeah

8:28

, I think yeah . Would

8:30

a robot be able to have churned out as much stuff

8:32

as we have over that time ? Not

8:35

in the way that we do it , right .

8:37

No , no , I can't see a robot having two pet cats

8:39

that are marauding all over the place rubbing

8:48

up and down the speaker . But I think with the yeah 50,000 downloads

8:50

, yeah , incredible , we're both buzzing and yeah , roll on the rest of this year . We've

8:52

got some fantastic guests that are coming . So

8:54

, we'll tempt you with those at the end of this

8:56

episode . So back to the

8:58

whole differences thing . So if we

9:00

were to have a look at , in fact , let's

9:02

build on that cat's idea . So , we've

9:05

sometimes used a cute way to describe introverts

9:07

, extroverts , as an introvert

9:09

maybe has quite a feline , cat-like

9:12

energy . So if you want to

9:14

make friends with a cat , you

9:16

might not necessarily bound up to

9:18

a cat , rub it really violently

9:20

, chuck it a ball and then make

9:22

best friends with a cat . So you might work with some

9:25

quite introverted preference people

9:27

. You might be an introvert yourself for whom actually

9:29

, in terms of that getting to know you stage , you

9:31

prefer it just a bit calmer , a

9:34

bit ordered and nothing that feels

9:36

too sort of pressured . So we could

9:38

already start to imagine what a good getting to know

9:40

you project kickoff meeting might involve

9:42

. Let's say , you've got a pet dog

9:44

. So how do you make friends with a dog ? Well , you don't

9:46

just leave it on its own in a room and let

9:48

it fend for itself or get lonely , because

9:50

a dog really likes to have interaction

9:52

. So , a bit like you might have some extroverts

9:55

who are in your team , you might be an extrovert . It actually is

9:57

a bit of a lonely space if there's too

9:59

much time to sit there and think

10:01

and not have something to sort of run

10:03

around and chase . So those introverts , extroverts

10:06

, it just brings quite a lighthearted

10:08

way to look at . Actually , dogs

10:11

and cats can coexist beautifully together

10:13

in that harmony . As you talked about , introvert

10:15

, extrovert people can work brilliantly , you know

10:17

, in that terms of that yin and that yang

10:20

, that sort of light to the shade , as

10:22

long as there's that element of self-awareness , as you

10:24

said , and that social awareness . So

10:26

let's say you're someone who think

10:29

of an idea and you're like , oh my God , let

10:31

me put a team's call out and just sort of blurt

10:33

it out . Then that might be how your brain

10:35

likes to work . So I need to talk

10:37

it out loud to then know what I think

10:39

. But the other seven people in your team

10:41

, that might be the biggest disruptor that afternoon

10:44

and it's really taken them off their flow and has

10:46

set them back . Yeah , because actually their preference

10:48

would be can you give me some thinking time and

10:51

then I'll speak out loud ? So

10:53

, very simply , and we're just sharing stuff

10:55

that we all know , but it's kind of what's ahead in

10:57

your working week coming up next , where

10:59

actually is there an expectation for people to

11:01

have instant thoughts on

11:04

the spot ? Some

11:06

people might be quite comfortable with that , other people might prefer a heads

11:08

up , and there's been quite a few workshops

11:10

we've been facilitating recently where actually people

11:12

have had that wake up call of ah , actually

11:15

I'm quite a high extrovert , I'm

11:17

putting demands on my colleagues to think

11:19

instantly of ideas and actually

11:22

their preference might be a couple of days before

11:24

the meeting . Could I pick your brains about

11:26

X , y , z and that 48

11:28

hours to incubate on that means

11:30

that you're going to get a lot higher quality interaction

11:33

when you're there , because there's been some thinking time

11:35

. So do you think to speak or do

11:37

you speak to think ? Is that the way to

11:39

sum it up , deb ? Is that sort of difference ?

11:41

Yeah , it is . Yeah , I think that's a great way , and

11:43

as long as you've told people that as well

11:45

because I think that's the other challenge is , people

11:47

don't always say how they like to work

11:50

, and I know I always say , look

11:52

, I'm just going to think this out loud because that's how

11:54

my brain works , so I don't want you to do

11:56

anything with it if I'm working with

11:59

my opposite type , and because

12:01

they might automatically think that they've got to then

12:03

do something about it , whereas actually it's my brain

12:05

just processing what might be going on , whether

12:07

it makes sense or not . So therefore , you know

12:09

that . They know that they're not expected to take

12:12

notes , they're not expected to do anything apart from just listen

12:14

, whereas if you know you had somebody on the other

12:16

side where you just launched into it , they might go

12:18

oh , and there's no clear boundaries , there's

12:20

no clear roles , what happens next

12:22

? None of that is being articulated

12:24

. They might just naturally go away and

12:26

do it , and then they come back with it and

12:29

you go oh no , that's not what I wanted

12:31

, that's not what I was expecting you to do . And then

12:33

that's where the conflict can come , because you weren't

12:35

clear on what was expected

12:38

. What are the boundaries , what

12:40

do I want you to do in this or not ? Or

12:42

I just need you to listen to me because I think

12:45

I'm not making sense and so sometimes

12:47

signposting what you want from

12:49

the other person can help overcome

12:52

some of those natural instincts to just

12:54

go and do oh , I think they must want me

12:56

to do that then . And I'll run off and do it . And

12:58

then it's like , oh , no , I didn't want you to do

13:00

that . And it's like , oh , you know

13:02

, so it's . It stops all of that deflatedness

13:05

and that , if you're like aloofness

13:07

, sometimes if you go back to the cat , they look at

13:09

you with distaste . Sometimes , if you've ever

13:12

done , I don't mind , do um

13:14

. So and I'm bouncing around as a puppy

13:16

, going , please love me , please love me , and the

13:18

cats are looking at me , going . So

13:22

I think it's really important that , um , we

13:24

, we are just clear in the communication

13:26

as well what do you want , what do you expect

13:29

? This is how we're going to work it together . All

13:31

of that lovely signposting stuff that

13:33

we I know we've talked about it , but it just creates

13:36

clarity , understanding

13:38

People know where they are in

13:40

that moment , not forever . So

13:42

I think some of that responsibility is on us to

13:44

say , look , I'm just going to chuck some stuff out

13:46

there , don't want you to do anything with it . Just listen and

13:49

then ask me loads and loads of questions about it afterwards

13:51

, or give me your thoughts or whatever

13:54

it is you want from that other person . Just be really

13:56

clear so that you're not going

13:58

on assumptions or your perspective

14:00

of it is going to be different . You've made

14:02

that clear upfront , I think , because

14:05

asking questions can

14:07

really help about that . So

14:09

what's most important to you how do

14:11

you like to work ? What

14:13

sort of approach do you take if we're having to solve

14:16

some problems or come

14:18

up with creative ideas Asking , because

14:20

then you'll know what you're dealing with .

14:22

Let's have a look in a moment . I'm just

14:24

midway reading a really fascinating

14:26

book that actually just speaks into my

14:28

mind about actually , this could link really nicely . So

14:31

we've looked at introverts and extroverts . We've looked at

14:33

how the foundation skill is emotional

14:35

intelligence , so I can read myself

14:37

and I can read the others to then be

14:39

able to intelligently adapt

14:41

, dial up , dial down as languages . Let's

14:44

have a look at some other areas of where there

14:46

might be some differences , that yin to the yang

14:48

. So , as well as the cats and dogs , what

14:53

might be some other opportunities

14:56

to blend well together . So , debs , right , go on , lorne . I'm about a third

14:58

of the way through this book , which obviously in my mind

15:00

means I've finished it Of course

15:03

You've already predicted the ending

15:05

.

15:07

Yeah , I know it , I've spun through it . Yeah yeah , oh , yeah , I know that

15:09

.

15:10

But it's a really interesting book that my brother-in-law

15:12

recommended to me , called Cues , written

15:14

by Vanessa Van Edwards . Oh , okay

15:16

, who's done loads of stuff around

15:19

human communication

15:21

on a real tiny level , like

15:25

every micro gesture and all that kind of stuff , and what she talks about is the

15:27

truly charismatic people . So charisma

15:30

is just that , that

15:32

risk factor . So high risk is

15:34

where you have high warmth and

15:37

high competence . So

15:39

the warmth cues give

15:41

that sense of trust . So someone

15:43

meeting , someone else going . Okay , I can see you're

15:45

a bit of a talker , more so than

15:47

me , but I trust you because

15:49

those are the warmth cues that

15:52

are that rapport building stuff . Nice

15:54

, so disclosing a bit of personal info

15:56

, asking some of that info , but not in an overly

15:58

kind of a pushy kind of way . Balancing

16:01

that then with the high competence cues

16:03

and the cues that are then given

16:05

are your facts , your data

16:07

, your information , and what the other person

16:09

is working out is well , not only can I trust

16:11

you , but can I rely upon you . So

16:14

that's how she then put this kind of

16:16

high warmth , which creates trust

16:18

, and high competence , which creates

16:21

the sense of reliance . I

16:23

think one might be quite useful , because I know this really has

16:25

always blown my mind with the insights language , whether it's

16:27

insights or one of these other ones , what

16:29

are some of the differences that you've seen play

16:31

out in terms of how people like

16:33

to make their decisions ? Yes , so

16:36

if introvert , extrovert is , how

16:38

do you like to communicate and how do you like your

16:40

energy ? Is

16:47

it that loud out there or is that more sort of reflective and sort of reserved inside ? No , which has

16:49

got nothing to do with confidence , because some of the shyest people I've met are just extroverts

16:51

that babble , yeah . And some of the most calmly

16:53

confident people are introverts that actually just

16:55

like to hold their

16:57

logic inside until they're able to

17:00

, you know , until they choose to express it . So

17:02

what might be some other interesting differences that

17:04

could also present themselves , as well as that energy

17:07

and that who likes to express versus listen

17:09

? What are some other things with regards

17:11

to how people like to make decisions , for

17:14

example , and what might that mean to be able

17:16

to work well with opposite ?

17:18

That's such a good question actually , laura

17:20

, and I think it's one one is understanding

17:22

. It goes back to understanding the individual . What's their motivation

17:25

, if you're like , what's their strengths

17:27

, what's their preferences ? I would find out what

17:29

their values are , because even though

17:31

we all have values , there are some that are

17:33

really wedded to them . We

17:36

always say , once you cross the line around

17:38

somebody's values , different people

17:41

will react very differently . Some will

17:43

hold a grudge for a very , very , very long time

17:45

and therefore that trust I suppose

17:47

, has gone . So therefore that

17:49

doesn't help if you're then having to work with them

17:52

again because you've got to work harder

17:54

at building that trust . So I

17:56

think that ability to recognise

17:58

what people need and also

18:00

, as you were saying , Laura , the ability

18:03

to understand that direct

18:05

people , those that are very direct , may also

18:07

be more thinking as well . So

18:09

they might be extroverted , but thinking they

18:12

will just want well , I want it now , and this is what it is where

18:14

somebody who might want time to think may not

18:16

question them in that

18:18

moment . But that also

18:20

can cause confusion , because

18:23

if somebody isn't questioning

18:25

, say , a high extrovert because they're off on one

18:27

and they've run away with it and you're sitting

18:29

there quietly taking it in or mulling

18:31

it over and you don't actually open

18:34

up your mouth and say leave

18:36

that with me . I hear what you're saying . I'm not so sure

18:38

that high energy person

18:40

may think that that's an agreement

18:42

. You're in agreement with me . So

18:44

, as you can imagine , that will cause all sorts of problems

18:47

because no one's speaking up and

18:49

therefore for that high extrovert they're

18:51

going to think , yeah , everyone's on my side

18:53

, no one's questioned me , that's okay

18:55

. So we need to understand

18:58

how people make problem

19:00

solve , how people can make decisions by asking

19:02

talk me through how you've managed this in

19:05

the past . You know , tell me how you handle

19:07

problems so I understand it

19:09

. What do you need from me in that moment ? Do

19:11

you prefer you know , loads of thoughts coming

19:13

out or do you prefer one thing at a time

19:16

? So all of these , I suppose

19:18

, exploratory questions can really

19:20

help you move away

19:22

from that , creating that opposite energy

19:24

that clashes , and I think

19:27

it takes a big , I think it does take

19:29

actually a lot of understanding for

19:31

people to recognize that's

19:33

the way that person is and that's okay

19:35

. And actually , how can I

19:37

adapt and flex my style

19:40

? Because I know my myself well enough to

19:42

get the best out of them . So I'm

19:44

not going to just keep banging no , I need you to do it this way

19:46

, this way , this way , this way . If that person's going

19:48

, no , I need to work on it , I need to think about

19:50

it . Then it's about how do I adapt

19:52

my style ? To go , have a look , let

19:55

me know what you think I'm the one that will

19:57

change my approach or will change

19:59

the deadline , because if I haven't been clear

20:01

in the first place , then it's unfair of

20:03

me to put all that pressure on somebody . So

20:05

it's really that's just so

20:07

fascinating , isn't it ? I think , laura , when you are

20:10

working with an opposite , just to , I

20:12

have to adapt , change my language . The

20:14

tone has to change . I have to read

20:16

the room , as you said , as to what's going on , for that

20:18

individual Doesn't mean I'm not going to be me

20:20

, because there's an expectation

20:22

that they would do the same as well . So it becomes this

20:25

you know , yin and yang , it's

20:32

works in harmony together . But if you're not sure and you haven't asked , then that's where

20:34

you would start . You know who are you , what's important to you , what's not , what do

20:36

you love doing about work , what don't you love

20:38

doing ? You know , don't be afraid to explore

20:41

those ups and downs with

20:43

individuals , because they'll be different

20:45

. Don't assume everybody wants to receive feedback

20:47

in the same way . I mean , we've had that , haven't

20:49

we , laura , before ?

20:51

Oh , absolutely yeah . And what

20:53

I think is just sort of a practicality

20:55

of this is you know , if you've got an hour

20:57

call with someone , could it

20:59

be that three minutes at the start

21:01

, which is like you and I are new to each other . How do you like

21:03

to work ? What do you want to get out of this ? Here's how

21:05

I like to work , and then that three minutes

21:08

could set you up for 57 really

21:10

practical minutes where you're productive , definitely

21:12

, rather than sort of dancing around and then it just all

21:14

feeling a bit of a oh , you know , it wasn't a very productive

21:16

call . And of course , there'll be some working relationships

21:19

where you might be decades working together

21:21

, in which case it might take you a while to get

21:23

into each other's rhythm . Or if you've got to work

21:25

quick and it might be sort

21:28

of a pop-up project , just that , how

21:30

do we sort of embrace it ? What I just wanted

21:32

to sort of get across is because

21:35

I think certainly what

21:37

might be on my mind is oh right , how do I

21:39

work with this person , because they're opposite , almost

21:41

like how do we cope with working ? I

21:43

was just sort of musing as I was listening to you saying

21:46

about ways of working . Actually

21:49

, could there be some professional benefit from

21:51

actively seeking to work

21:53

with your opposite . Oh yes

21:55

, definitely .

21:56

So that would be great to get your thoughts on actually what's

21:58

the win here ?

21:59

Because again just linking it to the whole AI

22:01

thing when I first got all hot and excited

22:04

about it . About the robots About the robots

22:06

I remember reading about . actually what they were

22:08

discovering was a way to get some really higher

22:10

level thinking . Whatever

22:12

you describe as thinking from the algorithms is

22:14

adversarial algorithms , so two

22:17

competing algorithms put

22:19

against each other in an adversarial

22:21

, a competitive to then create some

22:23

creative stuff . So

22:26

that's literally where my tech knowledge runs out , deb

22:28

, but I remember finding that interesting about . Well

22:30

, if that's how the machines , in order

22:32

to get higher quality , creative and inverted

22:35

commas thinking , which is , you purposely

22:37

pit two adversary , opposite

22:40

algorithms to then get high quality thinking

22:42

, if we were to retro transfer that

22:44

back into us humans , it might be

22:46

comfortable to work with people that

22:49

have similar working preferences , but

22:51

actually comfort might lead you into

22:53

complacency and it might mean you reduce innovation

22:56

. So , without kind of going over what we were talking about last

22:58

week about kind of the

23:00

positive outcome from conflict

23:02

, but just be great to get your thoughts about

23:04

actually what's the win of actively seeking

23:07

to pair up with people that are opposite

23:09

, what's that opportunity that potentially

23:12

we could get ?

23:13

Oh my God , that is so cool . So

23:15

I always , I think you have to

23:17

. Because , one , you learn so much about

23:19

yourself ? Because we're

23:21

all one , I think , and we all have a mixture

23:23

of different preferences , just some show it

23:25

more than others . And if I'm working with

23:28

an opposite and I'm going , okay

23:30

, what am I learning about myself ? Because

23:32

they're obviously triggering things that I would never even

23:34

think of . As you said , if I was working with a similar

23:36

person . I wouldn't even give it a second thought

23:39

. But because suddenly there feels like there's this , oh

23:42

, it makes me think and

23:44

it makes me check in as to who I

23:47

am and what I've done . And I think it's

23:49

that ability to go okay

23:51

, they just have a different viewpoint

23:53

than me and actually I

23:55

might learn something from them

23:58

about how I can adapt to

24:00

gain my approach to anything if

24:02

I'm willing to . And I

24:04

think that's the beauty , because what

24:07

you find , as you said , even if they put the

24:09

robots crashing together , two

24:11

humans will initially do the same

24:13

thing , because there might be 101 things

24:15

that are driving each person's behavior

24:18

, each person's motivation , everything

24:20

about their history might be coming into play , in

24:22

that It'd be triggering all sorts of thoughts

24:25

and feelings and vast experiences

24:27

with them . But if you can work through

24:29

that to find a mutually beneficial

24:31

way that you're coming way from

24:34

this side , I'm coming way from the other side

24:36

, but we're all aiming in the same

24:38

direction . There is already a common ground

24:40

at the higher level . So

24:42

if we are really clear on well , actually we're

24:44

both here to solve the same thing or

24:47

to overcome something that's the same

24:49

. So if we were to put our heads

24:51

together and share our strengths

24:53

, our complementary strengths , our

24:55

understanding of what we need to do , how we're going

24:57

to work together , I tell you what things

25:00

change . Things manifest themselves

25:02

so much more quickly than

25:04

if there's this ego that comes to play as

25:06

well . So it is about okay , I'm going

25:08

to learn something from you . Hold

25:11

myself because it's not about me in

25:13

that moment and find out what

25:15

I can learn from the other person , because it will probably

25:17

be a bit of a mirror moment . Sometimes

25:20

we found that people clash

25:22

because they're very similar , but they

25:24

don't see it . So when we're in team

25:26

dynamics and you go , oh my God , they're

25:28

the same person , but they're actually

25:31

, they're next , you know , because they

25:33

maybe don't like what they see

25:35

, because it reminds them of who they are

25:37

, but because , you know , try and

25:39

hide it and on a real

25:41

unconscious level , probably subconscious

25:43

level , those behaviors they're seeing

25:46

in the other person are probably a mirror

25:48

of how they are . And then they don't

25:50

like it . So , rather than embrace

25:52

and go , wow , what's going on for me , what's

25:54

making me behave this way ? Ask

25:56

of yourself first , not point the

25:58

finger Well , that's because they are . And go , yeah

26:01

, maybe I could be like that at times , especially

26:03

if I'm passionate about a thing . So

26:05

we're both coming at it from values . It's just

26:07

a different perspective on it , on

26:09

life , and I think we have

26:11

to . We have to learn . That's

26:16

the only way we learn how to create harmony and create

26:18

the yin and the yang in order to be better

26:20

people .

26:21

Dev's right . I'm giggling to myself because I'm just thinking

26:23

about that mirror moment , right . So

26:25

to all you extroverts out there

26:27

you know if you're sitting there

26:30

drooling waiting for your turn

26:32

to talk , just wait .

26:34

Wait , wait , sit Like

26:37

you would with a little dog right when you're trying to

26:39

wait until you get the treat .

26:41

The big dribble of saliva coming down . When's

26:43

it my turn to talk ? Just wait , and

26:46

then with the cats out there

26:48

so you know , actually is it time to jump down

26:50

off the bed and actually go and interact , not

26:53

just when you want feeding you know , so

26:55

, having had both cats and dogs in my life and

26:58

I think that's a fascinating point about a mirror

27:00

moment we might find other people's behaviour

27:03

distasteful because it

27:05

is this little shady reminder of

27:07

where we've seen that in ourselves .

27:10

Otherwise it wouldn't bother you . No , it wouldn't . That's so

27:12

true law . It just wouldn't bother you

27:14

. It's just people do it differently yeah

27:16

and the we can embrace difference

27:18

. I think , yeah , the world , you know

27:20

, the whole place of work would be a more harmonious

27:23

place of working because we

27:25

just embrace that we're all different . Um

27:27

, and it's not always about us , um , no

27:30

, so , because cats will play with dogs

27:32

when they want to play , right , and the dog loves

27:34

it .

27:34

But yeah , yeah , just watch

27:36

those claws when they've had enough .

27:38

That's it .

27:39

You know , read the room so

27:42

this episode was looking at yin

27:44

to the yang . So as our final in our

27:46

four-part focus , looking at reducing workplace

27:49

drama . And the reason why we thought that might

27:51

be a cool way to kick off this

27:53

year is in honour

27:55

of the Chinese New Year , which is the

27:57

year of the snake , which we're entering in . So

27:59

we thought that might be quite cool , whether that is

28:01

snakes and ladders dynamics , whether it's reducing

28:04

negative team conflict , whether

28:06

it's about just working with as

28:08

least drama as possible , because we've got

28:10

enough going on in our lives without our

28:12

work life spilling over and impacting our

28:14

wellness . So that was the overall pursuit

28:16

with that . I know in a moment , debs , you'll

28:18

give us a call to action , I will , I'll do a share the secret

28:20

. But of course , what this means as the

28:22

final in our four-part focus

28:25

is we are going to have a new topic

28:28

A new topic .

28:29

I can't wait . New topic , I know .

28:31

So next month is all going to be about taking

28:34

time , and we've got four really

28:36

powerful different topics

28:38

we're going to focus on , yeah , and what is incredibly

28:41

exciting is we've got some amazing guests lined

28:43

up , so that always adds a bit of a different

28:46

ingredient , different flavour , all in the pursuit

28:48

of cheerleading everyone

28:50

along on our work journey

28:53

through what has been a transformational

28:55

decade . We've got the first half

28:57

underneath our belts . Watch out the

28:59

roller coaster ride is still going

29:01

strong .

29:01

It is .

29:03

And so how do we do that with wellness as

29:05

the enabler ? So , debs , in true

29:07

coaching fashion , if this

29:09

focus has been looking at the yin to the yang

29:11

, how to work well with our work opposites

29:14

, what would your call to action be

29:16

?

29:16

Yeah , I've got a couple around . Effective

29:18

questioning really , I think if you

29:21

can be curious about that

29:23

other person and approach it with a genuine

29:26

interest to want to know , I would

29:28

definitely think about that and not

29:31

firing a million and one questions at people

29:33

, but being mindful of you know how that

29:35

person is responding to you . So , reading

29:37

the room , as you said , but I think asking

29:40

, really listening and asking some follow-up

29:42

questions to show that you are listening and

29:44

what you understand they've just said is so I

29:46

think it's more around you and

29:48

also willing to share your side . Not just

29:50

one size comes into it

29:53

. You've got to ask , but you've also got to share

29:55

how you like to work . So you create that

29:57

, I suppose , that mutually beneficial space

29:59

where you've got a better understanding

30:01

of the other . So mine is around , call

30:03

to action is around . Yeah , think about the questions

30:06

, those lovely what and how questions

30:08

to find out more and then

30:10

you can understand how you can work together

30:13

to move something forward .

30:15

Oh , I love it . So that sort of willingness , love it

30:17

my share . The secret would be I bet

30:20

you've got a mate in your professional personal network

30:22

who is banged on about

30:24

someone that they find really tricky to work with . Get

30:27

them to listen to this , because sometimes putting a label

30:29

onto those emotions just means that

30:31

you've just got a bit of a boundary and a bit

30:34

of a buffer and it can be helpful and

30:36

just again to bring a bit of light energy

30:38

to it , because I bet that person isn't knowingly

30:41

trying to wind you up . No , because they've got other

30:43

stuff going on in their lives . But sometimes we can unintentionally

30:45

do that because we didn't realise

30:47

you were a yang and I was a ying and

30:49

actually play our cards . Right , we can

30:52

ying and yang it together , yeah , and

30:54

all in the pursuit of harmonious , productive work relationships

30:56

. Yeah , so , debs , have a

30:59

wonderful week you too , don't you worry

31:01

, I'll resend you that email with

31:04

10 documents on .

31:05

Are you sure , Laura ? When do you want me to read

31:07

it by ? Give

31:10

me some time to digest .

31:13

And then I'll just put you on the spot in front of lots of other people and

31:15

call you out on it . No , no

31:18

, I'll just wig it oh

31:21

. I've really enjoyed this first

31:23

series . It's been really cool , hasn't it ? Yeah ?

31:26

We've had some really good comments about it , because

31:28

I think this is happening in loads

31:30

of workplaces everywhere and I'm

31:33

supposed to bring it to to light and

31:35

say you're not alone , first of all , and we've

31:37

all been there , but by able

31:39

to sort of learn from each other , we can navigate our

31:41

way through some of the challenges that we do find

31:44

in the drama . So , um , it's been

31:46

so cool ?

31:47

yeah , absolutely , and , as always

31:49

, the biggest challenges in our day to day now

31:51

become the best case

31:53

studies , interview replies

31:55

, advice and wisdom you can pass on

31:57

to others in the future so whatever

31:59

is uncomfortable now , actually , at some point that

32:02

could be a really useful skill or bit of

32:04

advice to pass on to someone else . Yeah , nice one .

32:06

Oh my God , I look forward to this week . You have a good one

32:08

too , laura .

32:09

Oh , you too darling , love you lots , bye

32:11

. Bye . We

32:15

hope you've enjoyed this podcast . We'd

32:17

love to hear from you . Email us

32:19

at contact , at secretsfromacoachcom

32:22

, or follow us on Insta

32:24

or Facebook . If you're a Spotify listener

32:27

, give us a rating , as it's easier for people

32:29

to find us , and if you want to know more

32:31

, visit our website , wwwsecretsfromacoachcom

32:36

and sign up for our newsletter here

32:38

to cheer you on and help you thrive

32:40

in the ever-changing world of work . You

32:45

.