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Swim, now streaming on Max. Hello

1:46

and welcome to Seeing Red, True Crime

1:48

podcast. I'm Mark. And I'm Baffin. Welcome

1:50

back everybody and welcome to the

1:52

show. Thanks for joining us and thanks

1:54

for listening. It's a very stormy Sunday

1:56

as we record this isn't it?

1:59

Incredibly stormy. me. Stormbird, named after

2:01

my dog. Oh yeah, I didn't

2:03

think of that. That's really cute. Yeah.

2:05

Shall we crack on with patron thank

2:07

yous and then launch into this week's

2:09

episode? Oh well I've actually put a

2:12

little something after patrons before the episode

2:14

as well Mark. So yeah do you

2:16

want to say thank you to our

2:18

patrons? I certainly do. Yep. So we

2:21

have J.C. Rebecca Hegg. Helgerson. Esmey Butcher,

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Laura Hopper and Ellie Campi, thank you

2:25

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2:27

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Thank you to all of our new

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supporters. And before we begin this week's

2:56

episode, I wanted to give a quick

2:59

shout out to everyone that if you're

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3:55

Living in a leafy parish of Canterbury,

3:57

Shirley Banfield and her daughter Lynette Banfield

3:59

attracted very little attention. They weren't originally

4:01

from the area and the pair kept

4:04

themselves to themselves for the most part.

4:06

Shirley was in her 60s and Lynette

4:08

in her late 30s and they tended

4:10

to spend their time together. The mother

4:13

and daughter duo were very rarely seen

4:15

out in the community. They'd pop out

4:17

to the shop, you know, go to

4:19

the supermarket to do their shopping or,

4:22

you know, people might have spotted them

4:24

tending the garden, but they weren't the

4:26

types to join the W.I. or the

4:28

local book club. They weren't like us,

4:31

Mark. Out in the community having a

4:33

jolly all the time. Oh, yeah, definitely

4:35

that's me. I am in a book

4:37

club here, but that's about it. But

4:39

then you walk the dog, people see

4:42

the dog, people see you all the

4:44

dog, people see you all the dog,

4:46

people see you all the It's fucking

4:48

non-stop fun here. Non-stop fun way out

4:51

in the countryside. Canterbury is a historic

4:53

city located in Kent in England and

4:55

it's famous for its medieval architecture and

4:57

its status as a UNESCO world heritage

5:00

site. The city is perhaps best known

5:02

for Canterbury Cathedral which is one of

5:04

the oldest and most important Christian structures

5:06

in England. So that cathedral is the

5:09

seat of the Archbishop of the Canterbury,

5:11

the spiritual leader of the Church of

5:13

England. And Canterbury also has a rich

5:15

history that dates back to the Roman

5:18

times, which is just bonkers when you

5:20

think about it. And it's also associated

5:22

with Geoffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales. That's

5:24

a collection of stories told by programs

5:26

that were travelling to the cathedral. And

5:29

it was actually written between 1387 and

5:31

1400. It's so long ago, and it's

5:33

just really weird for me to think

5:35

about, but Mark, whenever I think about

5:38

people from that long ago... I just

5:40

think of you going, oh they would

5:42

have stunk. You've literally ruined history for

5:44

me. They would have stunk back then

5:47

hundreds of years ago. They had a

5:49

bath like once a month probably in

5:51

front of the fire. They didn't have

5:53

a washing machine. No, they would have

5:56

been like... all sorts of like bodily

5:58

juices in that bathwater that they're bathing

6:00

in. It's absolutely disgusting. Bethan, I always

6:02

think with Roman times, and we do

6:05

occasionally reference the Roman era, have you

6:07

ever heard of that weird thing? It

6:09

was like this craze on Tiktak a

6:11

year or so ago, and it was

6:13

the difference between how often men and

6:16

women think of the Roman times or

6:18

the Roman era, and weirdly men think

6:20

of it a lot more than women.

6:22

Yeah, it is really random because I

6:25

remember when that craze was going around,

6:27

but I think about the Romans quite

6:29

a lot. Like if I see a

6:31

good wall, I look at a nice

6:34

wall and I'm like, oh look at

6:36

the... Because especially being near the Cotswolds,

6:38

we see quite nice Roman roads and

6:40

walls quite a lot. But I think

6:43

about the Romans quite a lot and

6:45

I remember at the time I was

6:47

like, does this mean I'm actually a

6:49

man? Well, we did talk about your

6:52

penis the other week, so potentially. I

6:54

think about it because of the roses.

6:56

Do you think about Rome quite a

6:58

lot? Yeah, well, I think of the

7:01

Roman times, because if ever, if ever

7:03

I'm on a brilliant straight road, I

7:05

think our nice one, Romans, you know,

7:07

this one, even though probably wasn't them.

7:09

So I think about the Roman era

7:12

twice a week, at least, I would

7:14

say. Yeah, I think as well, because

7:16

I was quite a history. lover at

7:18

school. I really enjoyed learning about some

7:21

of the real ancient cultures. Maybe that's

7:23

why I think about things a little

7:25

bit more often than other people. But

7:27

yeah, I don't watch, I'm a celebrity

7:30

for example, whereas someone else might be

7:32

thinking about that, that doesn't really come

7:34

into my brain. Same. But then I

7:36

do have a lot of random lyrics

7:39

from the 90s and the early noughties

7:41

that won't leave my brain. The good

7:43

old days. You win some, you lose.

7:45

In addition to its historical significance, Canterbury

7:48

is a vibrant city with a mix

7:50

of shops and restaurants and cultural attractions.

7:52

Visitors can explore its cobbled streets, so

7:54

like we said those cobbled streets will

7:56

give you those real like old styley

7:59

vibes. You can visit the Canterbury Roman.

8:01

museum and also enjoy the scenic River

8:03

Stour which runs through the city. The

8:05

city is well connected by public transport

8:08

so it makes it a really popular

8:10

destination for tourists and it's a convenient

8:12

base for exploring the surrounding Kent countryside.

8:14

And Shirley and Annette seemed like very

8:17

normal, ordinary, run-of-the-mill ladies just living in

8:19

this area. But behind the curtains their

8:21

neighbours would have been shocked to see

8:23

the reams of clothing and boxes filled

8:26

with jewelry. And a lot of this

8:28

was actually the result of multiple shoplifting

8:30

sessions, not what you would have expected

8:32

from this pair. And it feels like

8:35

some form of compulsion, because much of

8:37

the items still had their tags on.

8:39

The mother and daughter had no one

8:41

to show these goodies off to. They

8:43

weren't shoplifting and dressing up nicely to

8:46

go out. They literally were just keeping

8:48

them in the house. Because people would

8:50

also have been surprised to see that

8:52

they were swanning off to the Caribbean

8:55

for holidays. And they might well have

8:57

wondered how they could afford such a

8:59

lifestyle, you know, not seeing them go

9:01

off to work every day. How were

9:04

they funding this? And some may say,

9:06

blood money, and that is 100% how

9:08

I see it, and I'm going to

9:10

ask you, Mark, at the end of

9:13

the episode, whether or not you agree

9:15

with me. To learn more about where

9:17

this money came from, we need to

9:19

head back almost a decade and start

9:22

the story in the year 2000. At

9:24

this point Shirley Shirley Shirley was married

9:26

to a man called Donald. and they

9:28

were living in northwest London in an

9:30

area called Wheelstone in the London Borough

9:33

of Harrow. Wheelstone is a suburban kind

9:35

of area to the northwest of central

9:37

London. It's known for its diverse community,

9:39

it's residential neighbourhoods and the area has

9:42

quite a mix of housing. There's older

9:44

houses and also some more modern developments.

9:46

Wheelstone has a number of local communities

9:48

including shops and schools and parks and

9:51

it's a really convenient place for families

9:53

to set routes down. The High Street

9:55

features a variety of retail options from

9:57

independent shops to larger chains and it's

10:00

seen as a really desirable place for

10:02

many people to live. Donald Bamfield was

10:04

originally from Trinidad and he had been

10:06

married once before he settled down with

10:09

Shirley. Some reports say that he was

10:11

a father of four and other reports

10:13

say he was a father of six

10:15

but either way he had children already

10:17

when he met and then married Shirley.

10:20

So the couple had a son called

10:22

Kevin in 1968 and they had their

10:24

daughter Lynette in 1971. Donald, more commonly

10:26

known as Don, was a qualified accountant

10:29

and in recent time had been working

10:31

as a bookmaker at the firm, William

10:33

Hill. And at the age of 63,

10:35

Don was really looking forward to his

10:38

retirement. So he ran a branch of

10:40

William Hill in Hampstead High Street and

10:42

here he was known as the Punters

10:44

Powell. He was known by pop stars,

10:47

actors, authors, poets, members of Parliament, lawyers,

10:49

and also the ordinary man who liked

10:51

a flutter. he was well liked and

10:53

he was a popular face in the

10:56

community. Don and Shirley's marriage had been

10:58

turbulent to say the least. Shirley described

11:00

Don as a womaniser and Don was

11:02

also a gambler himself so not only

11:05

did he run William Hill but he

11:07

was a gambler and he got himself

11:09

into debt. Shirley described how Don had

11:11

disappeared frequently when he had a bit

11:13

of money in his pocket. With their

11:16

daughter now an adult and the pair

11:18

unable to continue their marriage Don began

11:20

to make plans to use his retirement

11:22

money. and half of his money of

11:25

the sale of the family home to

11:27

retire and to head back to Trinidad

11:29

where he'd been born. He abruptly left

11:31

the Hans dead branch of William Hill

11:34

in January 2001 and he stood to

11:36

gain a pretty decent pension and some

11:38

pension lump sums as well. In May

11:40

2001 the contracts to sell the property

11:43

were signed by both Don and Shirley.

11:45

And then at this point Don simply

11:47

vanished. Don had previously chosen to go

11:49

missing. and the police treated his disappearance

11:52

as a missing person. However, quite tellingly,

11:54

it wasn't Don's wife or his daughter

11:56

who reported his missing, it was actually

11:58

one of his friends. This was

12:00

over a week after the last recorded

12:03

time that Don was noted as being

12:05

alive, so the time that he signed

12:07

the paperwork to agree to selling the

12:09

family home with his wife. And a

12:11

few days later, the pension company

12:14

got a letter from Don which requested

12:16

that the pensions would be paid

12:18

into his joint account that he

12:20

had with his wife. Also

12:22

around this time Shirley Banfield provided the

12:24

police with quite a misleading photo fit

12:26

of Don for their appeals which made

12:28

their job a lot harder looking for

12:30

this missing person. So she told investigators

12:32

that he had shaved off his moustache

12:35

and that he'd actually gone a lot

12:37

grayer than he looked in the photos

12:39

that she could provide. Soon investigations into

12:41

the case really slowed down. And

12:43

I'm not, I don't want to make

12:45

any judgments against the police because

12:47

I know we do occasionally have

12:49

to do that. and I'm not

12:52

at all here but it's this

12:54

wouldn't have been a high priority

12:56

missing person's case in the first

12:58

place so the investigation probably never

13:00

really got going into anything significant

13:02

in the first place I would have thought

13:05

it's a really tricky one we will

13:07

look at some information that

13:09

came out later in a little bit

13:11

in the episode because that may change

13:13

your mind on that slightly but I

13:15

agree this is a man who has

13:17

chosen to go missing in the past

13:19

and was making plans to retire

13:21

and head back to Trinidad. You

13:23

know, his wife's given the description

13:26

and he's not been spotted. You

13:28

can understand how the police, what else

13:30

are they going to go on? And am I

13:32

right? Did you say they'd split up at

13:35

this point as well? They were planning to

13:37

do that? Okay. Yeah. He was going

13:39

to go in and retire by himself

13:41

separately to his wife and daughter. and

13:43

he's known to have been a bit of

13:45

a womanizer in the past so it would

13:47

have made sense to just chalk it up

13:49

to yeah this is somebody heading into the

13:51

final chapter of their lives and living life

13:53

on on their terms and doing what they

13:55

want to do doesn't owe anybody anything so

13:57

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exclusion supply. retirement.

26:08

So the police theorised that Don was

26:10

looking forward to his opportunity of a

26:12

new life and his new freedom, but

26:14

that Shirley on the other hand was

26:16

facing what they described as a rather

26:18

bleaker future. She had been aged 54.

26:20

She was on the verge of being abandoned

26:23

without any money. you know not enough

26:25

money to rehouse herself and Lynette and

26:27

then obviously their income would have been

26:29

much lower because Don wouldn't have been

26:31

there paying into the family kitty and

26:34

I think that at one point Shirley

26:36

was off work on long-term sick whether

26:38

or not that was once he was

26:40

gone and they were just living together

26:42

I'm not sure but potentially Lynette and

26:45

Shirley didn't have huge incomes that they

26:47

were bringing in. So the idea of

26:49

Don swanning off and enjoying himself

26:51

would have been incredibly bitter for

26:53

Shirley. I can imagine that, yeah,

26:55

it's not just I'm going to

26:57

be left in a destitute lifestyle

26:59

that I'm not used to, I'm

27:01

going to have to downsize and

27:03

all of that, it is the

27:05

fact that my husband who's also

27:07

going to be divorcing me is

27:09

going to be living his absolute

27:12

best life, retired, living in the

27:14

sunshine, back on his home turf. Yeah,

27:16

I can imagine that would have been

27:18

infuriating for her. Yeah, and

27:20

you know, I don't know. their life, I don't

27:22

know their marriage, but all the time that she's,

27:24

you know, I don't feel a lot of sympathy

27:26

for her, but a little bit of

27:28

me can kind of see. They've been

27:30

married for this time, they've got children,

27:32

and she's put up with him disappearing

27:34

for a weekend or time and time

27:36

at different points, because he's had a

27:38

good win. She knows he's off being

27:40

a womaniser, potentially off with other women, you know,

27:43

we don't know any of this for definite, this

27:45

is what she has said, but... you know it

27:47

could well you can understand that she would have

27:49

stayed with him because she's got a happy life

27:51

in a country you know a nice country home

27:53

she's got um well no sorry not the country

27:55

home because that's Canterbury but she's got her

27:58

nice home in like a nice area She's

28:00

got money, they've got a good income,

28:02

he's got a good pension, and she's

28:04

kind of thinking of self, do you

28:06

know what, I'm set for life now,

28:08

and then he drops that bombshell, I've

28:10

retired, I've quit my job, I'm going

28:12

to get my pensions, and then I'm

28:14

going, cheerio. That is actually quite a

28:16

lot because she probably wouldn't have put

28:18

up with all of his antics had

28:20

she known this was what it was

28:22

going to turn out to be. I

28:24

was just going to say that. Yeah,

28:26

I can understand that she's put up

28:28

with a lot of shit from him

28:31

in all honesty, but probably thinking, well,

28:33

it's a partnership and it works and

28:35

I'm going to get something out of

28:37

it, so it's a compromise, you know,

28:39

it's okay. And then he goes and

28:41

betrays her right at the end. So

28:43

I can't understand the actions that they've

28:45

taken obviously, but I can understand a

28:47

feeling of bitterness then of, oh, okay,

28:49

right, thank you very much, really, really,

28:51

isn't it. Yeah. and you can understand

28:53

how the daughter's then going to think

28:55

that as well. Oh great dad you're

28:57

heading off and leaving us so yeah.

28:59

So that tension in the home grew

29:01

until the pair began to well and

29:03

truly tortured on and they really subjected

29:05

him to such really nasty abuse. Don

29:07

had no way of knowing that in

29:09

signing the house sale paperwork he was

29:11

actually signing his own death warrant. The

29:14

police were closing their net around the

29:16

mother and daughter. They had a lot

29:18

of evidence of Don's money being claimed

29:21

and spent, but not by him. And

29:23

Shirley Banfield admitted that she had told

29:25

a pack of lies about her husband

29:27

and forged a letter so that his

29:29

pension money could be transferred into an

29:31

account that she controlled. But her reasoning

29:34

was that it was a way to

29:36

flush Don out. She said she had

29:38

done so because she thought he was

29:40

still alive, but had just walked out.

29:42

So she wanted to kind of flush

29:44

him out, he'd... signed the documents then

29:47

to transfer her the house and she

29:49

said, I was very angry, I wanted

29:51

to get his attention, I wanted him

29:53

to come back and sign the papers

29:55

for the transfer of the house and

29:57

as far as I knew he'd gone

30:00

off and he'd be back at some

30:02

time. So that was how she described

30:04

why she did that. Put Shirley in

30:06

her next lies. continued for years. This

30:08

was from 2001 until they got caught

30:10

in 2009 so it's not just that

30:13

initial let's try and flush them out

30:15

at all. They told the police in

30:17

2009 that they actually had seen Don

30:19

over Christmas in 2008 and Shirley once

30:21

again attempted to pull the wool over

30:23

their eyes by saying how her husband

30:26

he hadn't looked very well he'd been

30:28

coughing up blood. So you know oh

30:30

well maybe he didn't die at the

30:32

first point and he'd you know gone

30:34

away on his own but... Now he

30:36

probably has. It was like a real,

30:39

pathetic clutching at straws. But the police

30:41

had no findings to suggest that Don

30:43

had been alive all that time, not

30:45

in the UK, not in Trinidad, or

30:47

even in the US where he had

30:49

family members. Nobody had heard from him.

30:52

Detective Chief Inspector Howard Groves, who led

30:54

the Met investigation, said later on in

30:56

2012, to the press, that he had

30:58

no nagging doubts that Donald Bamfield was

31:00

dead. but he admitted that missing body

31:03

murders are extremely difficult to prove. So

31:05

he said about how you have to

31:07

satisfy the jury that someone is definitely

31:09

dead because obviously you need to make

31:11

sure that they're not just going to

31:13

wander into a police station and say,

31:16

I believe they've been convicted of my

31:18

murder but here I am. And then

31:20

he said that there's two particular lines

31:22

of inquiry when it's a missing body

31:24

murder investigation. So basically you have to

31:26

prove that the individual was alive in

31:29

the first instance. And then you have

31:31

to prove that that normal behaviour by

31:33

the victim has stopped suddenly and completely.

31:35

So no bank transactions, no mobile phone,

31:37

not seeing any of their friends and

31:39

family, not going to a GP, anything

31:42

like that. It's difficult though, isn't it?

31:44

Because... I can understand why Shirley is

31:46

saying he's done a reggae parent, which

31:48

if anybody's not familiar with that reference,

31:50

it's a think of John Darwin, the

31:52

canoe man, it's a reference to faking

31:55

your own death and then setting up

31:57

with a new identity somewhere else. Because

31:59

if Don had done that and said...

32:01

with a new identity while he's not

32:03

going to come up on the NHS

32:05

details or registering at GP practice or

32:08

with a bank account in his name

32:10

because he'd be under an assumed name

32:12

which he you know he could have

32:14

had a legitimate other identification like John

32:16

Darwin did he used the birth certificate

32:18

of a dead child in order to

32:21

apply for a passport and then got

32:23

a passport and once you've got a

32:25

passport in whatever name you've got it

32:27

in that's your new identity it's legitimate

32:29

then it's as legitimate as my identity

32:31

is now yeah so you can understand

32:34

it but the police were able to

32:36

kind of really prove that and also

32:38

I guess with him as well you

32:40

we knew that well the police knew

32:42

that he wanted to go to where

32:44

he had family and friends and stuff,

32:47

so to, you know, to find that

32:49

people are saying, we have not heard

32:51

from him since 2001. That's also incredibly

32:53

telling. And I don't see as well

32:55

why he would have faked his own

32:57

death. He didn't need to, claiming his

33:00

pensions himself and selling the half the

33:02

home. He was entitled to that. There

33:04

was no reason to do that. She's

33:06

clutching at straws, isn't she? Yeah, I

33:08

thought exactly the same. When she said

33:10

initially she sort of volunteered that information

33:13

very quickly, he's done a ready pair

33:15

and I was like, well what motivation

33:17

has he got for doing that? He's

33:19

going to be retiring, he's going to

33:21

be getting his pension, he doesn't need

33:23

to fake his death to get life

33:26

insurance, he owns a house, he's going

33:28

to get half of that, he's moving

33:30

back to Trinidad, so yeah, I was

33:32

like, why would he do that? He

33:34

had plans and he'd... vocalize them as

33:36

well. Well he was in debt, he

33:39

was in debt but but he you

33:41

know that was that wasn't element to

33:43

it he was in debt but then

33:45

for the police really there was this

33:47

missing you know it's a missing body

33:49

but they believe there's a murder because

33:52

actually he hasn't he you know they

33:54

don't think that he would have faked

33:56

his own death the same as us

33:58

it seems like a point you know

34:00

what's the point of that but he

34:03

hasn't you know he hasn't been the

34:05

one using any of his bank account

34:07

for any of his bank accounts or

34:09

anything. of his money, the sale of

34:11

the house went through and he didn't

34:13

take his half and even just pay

34:16

off his debts. That, and that's it,

34:18

he might have been in debt, but

34:20

I bet he was quite solvent if

34:22

he'd liquidated everything, which he was essentially

34:24

in the process of doing by selling

34:26

the house, etc. And so... Mr. Gross

34:29

then said, we established within days of

34:31

his last known sighting that his pension

34:33

had been fraudulently transferred from his account

34:35

to an account that he shared with

34:37

his wife, and the tipping point was

34:39

when handwriting experts confirmed that the documents

34:42

in question were forged by his daughter.

34:44

So in July 2011 it was reported

34:46

in the news that the wife and

34:48

daughter of a London pensioner who vanished

34:50

10 years ago have been charged with

34:52

his murder. I mean, what a headline

34:55

I just think that is. Bonkers, isn't

34:57

it? So the news reports stated that

34:59

Don Banfield was 63 when he was

35:01

last seen leaving his house in Wildston

35:03

in North Best London on the 19th

35:05

of May 2001 and that his wife

35:08

and daughter had been charged. Now I

35:10

said earlier that I feel like the

35:12

pair funded their lifestyle with blood money

35:14

and I genuinely do think this. I

35:16

don't know what happened for definite within

35:18

that home, but I'm convinced that one

35:21

or both of them killed Don. But

35:23

one of them probably, more than the

35:25

other, but that they were both absolutely

35:27

involved in disposing of this body and

35:29

covering up the murder. I cannot see

35:31

that it was just one of them.

35:34

I think both of them at least

35:36

knew what had happened here. Because actually,

35:38

if it was one of them and

35:40

the other one, surely you'd have some

35:42

sort of questions as to everything. And

35:44

you were both involved in the torturing

35:47

him? I genuinely think this both of

35:49

them. So that I'm guessing they never

35:51

found a body here then. they still

35:53

haven't found a body. Wow. So they,

35:55

yeah, okay. But yeah, I'm with you,

35:57

I think that they won all both

36:00

of them, probably both of them, plotted

36:02

to kill him. One of them would

36:04

have done that. but then they would

36:06

have potentially both been complicit I would

36:08

have thought in disposing of his body

36:10

and they've obviously done a bloody amazing

36:13

job of that. Annoyingly yeah. So Shirley

36:15

Bamfield and Lynette Bamfield were then due

36:17

to appear before Westland and Magistrates facing

36:19

charges of conspiracy to defraud, forgery and

36:21

conspiracy to pervert the course of justice

36:23

and the report stated that Shirley Bamfield

36:26

had also been charged with a further

36:28

fraud offence of dishonesty retaining a wrongful

36:30

credit. And then in 2012, Shirley Bamfield

36:32

and Lynette Bamfield were brought to trial

36:34

for Don's murder at the Old Bailey,

36:36

for which they stated their innocence, but

36:39

also for all those fraud, forgery and

36:41

conspiracy charges, for which they pleaded guilty.

36:43

The court were told how Don had

36:45

told the police he feared for his

36:47

life, but couldn't allow them to do

36:49

anything about it because he didn't want

36:52

his wife to know that he'd reported

36:54

this. and the defence admitted that the

36:56

pair were guilty of lying in deception,

36:58

but the defence said this is not

37:00

evidence of murder. So Shirley claimed in

37:03

court that Don had faked his own

37:05

death, although there was no evidence that

37:07

he'd been alive since May 2001, and

37:09

the defence repeated that there was nobody,

37:11

no proof that Don had been killed,

37:13

and let alone by Shirley or in

37:16

that there was no proof of any

37:18

of this. So the court were told

37:20

about Shirley's misleading photo fit of Dom.

37:22

And it was explained to them that

37:24

Shirley had been referred to the missing

37:26

person's helpline, and they created an age-enhanced

37:29

image. So the person from the helpline

37:31

then told the court, she sent copies

37:33

of the poster to the police, and

37:35

Mrs. Bamfield telephoned her and said, what

37:37

a good poster, it looks just like

37:39

him. Because the prosecution said that actually

37:42

Don's son Kevin said the poster looked

37:44

nothing like his dad, when he saw

37:46

that image later on. So they were

37:48

already trying to muddy the waters here

37:50

and nobody could say that they had

37:52

or hadn't seen Don didn't even look

37:55

like him. So the defence referred to

37:57

the fact that Don had previously disappeared

37:59

from Trinidad? They referred to the fact that

38:01

he had debts of £50,000 when he went missing,

38:03

and they really tried to prove that he may

38:05

well have decided to go missing of his

38:07

own accord. But of course, this was counted

38:09

by the fact that the police had not

38:11

been able to find any suggestion that he

38:13

was alive and well, and as we talked

38:15

about, he would have probably used the money

38:18

that he was entitled to, rather than just

38:20

going with nothing at all. And that is a lot

38:22

of debt, £50,000, particularly back then, that would be in

38:24

the region of £100, £100, £100, £100, £100, £100, £100,

38:26

£100, £100, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1,

38:28

£1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1,

38:30

£1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, £1, we're talking

38:33

of property in London that's being sold and he would

38:35

have I'm sure he would have still been pretty solvent

38:37

after the sale of the house. I think so and

38:39

I think if you've got that much you

38:41

know if you've got debt but

38:43

you're in the kind of bookmaking

38:46

kind of area of expertise it's

38:48

probably doesn't feel like that much

38:50

do you've probably seen people with much

38:52

more depth than that to me that's

38:54

a huge amount but to him it might

38:57

not have been that much that much He

38:59

might have even just been thinking, well I

39:01

don't really care about that, I'm moving

39:03

to Trinidad, I just go bankrupt or

39:05

I'll hide my money out there, buy

39:07

a new place. I'm not going to

39:09

repay those debts. My point is, yes,

39:11

it's a considerable amount of debt, but

39:13

it's not enough for him to need

39:15

to fake his own death when he's

39:17

a homeowner and he's able to sell

39:19

that house too. And he's got lump

39:21

sums from his pensions from his

39:23

pensions and he's got his pensions

39:26

he could then claim. The jury

39:28

were told that Don's wife and daughter were

39:30

alleged to have killed Don sometime the night

39:32

after he signed the house sale paperwork or

39:34

during the weekend that followed. And then

39:36

within days they had begun helping themselves

39:39

to his pension and within a few

39:41

weeks they had got their hands on

39:43

Mr. Bamfield's half share of the profit

39:45

from the sale of the home. The jury

39:47

were also reminded that neither woman reported

39:49

him missing and it wasn't until the

39:51

19th of May that his friend went

39:53

to the police. After

39:55

a month-long trial and 14 hours

39:58

of deliberation by the jury, Shirley

40:00

and the Net were both found guilty

40:02

of Donald Banfield's murder on the 3rd

40:04

of April 2012. Neither of the women

40:07

showed any emotion upon the guilty verdicts

40:09

being announced. The judge sentenced Shirley to

40:11

life imprisonment with a minimum term of

40:13

18 years and Lynette to life with

40:16

a minimum term of 16 years in

40:18

prison. Following the verdicts and the sentencing,

40:20

Don Sister Kay begged Shirley and Lynette

40:23

to reveal what they had done with

40:25

his body so that they could bury

40:27

him. and the public were reminded of

40:29

how sad it was that Don's mum

40:32

had actually died in 2004, never knowing

40:34

what had happened to her son. A

40:36

spokesperson for the CPS or the Crown

40:38

Prosecution Service said their actions were motivated

40:41

by greed and they robbed a man

40:43

of his life purely for military gain.

40:45

Almost 11 years since Don's disappearance his

40:48

wife and daughter no doubt believed that

40:50

they had got away with this crime.

40:53

The lead detective on the case

40:55

speaking after the trial said that

40:57

Shirley and Annette Banfield convinced themselves

40:59

that they'd never be found guilty

41:01

of his murder. However, today's verdict

41:03

shatters that belief. So he stated

41:05

that throughout the whole process they

41:07

just lied and lied and lied

41:09

and lied. And it's here that

41:11

we would usually finish the episode.

41:13

But not this week. Because in

41:15

2013, Shirley and Annette's case was

41:17

heard before the Court of Appeal.

41:19

I found this really, really, really

41:21

fascinating because to me. This seemed

41:23

open and shut, but the legal

41:26

proceedings that followed really proved that

41:28

actually it was not at all.

41:30

There were two key elements to

41:32

the appeal process, so the first

41:34

element was whether or not that

41:36

the Crown had proved beyond reasonable

41:38

doubt that both women were jointly

41:40

responsible for Don's murder, and the

41:42

second was to confirm whether the

41:44

evidence was enough to establish the

41:46

guilt of the defendants. Does that

41:48

make sense like that's what the

41:50

appeal kind of centers around? Yeah,

41:52

because I guess it's saying well

41:54

did they were they both in

41:56

this together or was it just

41:58

one of them and therefore one

42:00

of them is in? so shouldn't

42:02

be in prison and yeah secondly

42:05

genuinely is there enough evidence to

42:07

establish guilt and I can understand

42:09

that because there's no body there

42:11

is no definitive proof that Don

42:13

is actually dead so that is

42:15

an issue you can you can

42:17

say circumstantially everything's pointing to the

42:19

fact that he's dead so there's

42:21

no murder weapon there's no witnesses

42:23

it's difficult I can see I

42:25

can see it And so obviously

42:27

this is a joint enterprise case.

42:29

Do you remember we talked about

42:31

Derek Bentley? Who was convicted for

42:33

saying to the other person, give

42:35

it to him or give him

42:37

some or something like that? And

42:39

that was then how he was

42:41

prosecuted as being equally responsible for

42:44

murder of a police officer, if

42:46

I remember right now? I think

42:48

it was of a police officer.

42:50

Yeah. So we talked a lot

42:52

about joint enterprise enterprise. How you

42:54

have to be able to prove...

42:56

that both parties absolutely were involved

42:58

and that both people on trial

43:00

are equally responsible. So that's a

43:02

really key thing within this. These

43:04

weren't two separate trials. This was

43:06

both women on trial for the

43:08

same thing at the same time.

43:10

So the prosecution stated that both

43:12

Shirley and Lynette had the motive,

43:14

the opportunity and the intentions to

43:16

harm Dom. But the defence argued

43:18

that there was no conclusive evidence

43:21

linking them both to the murder,

43:23

and that the prosecution could not

43:25

prove that they had acted jointly.

43:27

So therefore, the jury could not

43:29

have rightly stated that they had

43:31

both been responsible. The court emphasised

43:33

how important it was to establish

43:35

joint responsibility in cases where there

43:37

is more than one defendant. And

43:39

the court then stated the prosecution

43:41

did not conclusively prove the guilt

43:43

of both Shirley and the net.

43:45

and that the evidence was not

43:47

enough to convict them both. The

43:49

court of appeal judges said that

43:51

there were tenable alternatives, which could

43:53

have led to Don's death, so

43:55

i.e. there were... more reasonable things

43:57

that could have happened to Don.

44:00

It wasn't obvious that it had

44:02

definitely been both his wife and

44:04

his daughter. Judge Lady Justice Rafferty,

44:06

who heard the appeal with Mr

44:08

Justice Simon and Mrs Justice Carr,

44:10

said that the case was speculative

44:12

and circumstantial, and continued, this was

44:14

an alleged joint-hunt enterprise murder with

44:16

no body, no suggested mechanism of

44:18

death, no identified day where the

44:20

murder was said to have occurred,

44:22

no time and no place and

44:24

no suggestion of what had happened

44:26

to the body. The judge continued

44:28

and said the appeal turns on

44:30

whether there was evidence from the

44:32

close of the case for the

44:34

crown from which the jury could

44:36

infer that the two defendants must

44:39

have killed together and not one

44:41

in the absence of the other.

44:43

The crown's difficulty was its inability

44:45

to prove that the two women

44:47

acted in concert to bring about

44:49

Mr Banfield's death. What it could

44:51

not do was prove a joint

44:53

enterprise to be present. when he

44:55

was murdered, either as a killer

44:57

or as a participant in a

44:59

joint enterprise. And so, both Shirley

45:01

and Annette's convictions were overturned, and

45:03

the pair were released a year

45:05

after their conviction for murder. Oh,

45:07

I mean... Isn't this mad? this

45:09

joint enterprise thing is just bollocks

45:11

isn't it? If you can't, I

45:13

get it like they might not

45:15

both be guilty to be honest

45:18

they both might not be guilty

45:20

but one of them might not

45:22

be guilty then try the other

45:24

one separately do a separate trial

45:26

for the person that you think

45:28

did do it. It's almost like

45:30

well we've got to prove both

45:32

of them did it or or

45:34

they both get off. However if

45:36

you try to take to Shirley

45:38

to court and trial her Like,

45:40

this really did frustrate me, but

45:42

I can now fully understand it.

45:44

Even if you just have Shirley

45:46

on trial, there was no body,

45:48

no suggestion of how she killed

45:50

him, no day when it happened,

45:52

no time and place, no suggestion

45:54

of what happened to the body.

45:57

It's kind of obvious. hundred percent

45:59

and I'm convinced that the both

46:01

of them are involved in some

46:03

way but I do get this

46:05

appeal annoyingly I don't want to

46:07

understand it I kind of want

46:09

to be mad at them but

46:11

it does make sense yeah I don't know

46:13

too much about the appeal process I mean

46:15

at this for this appeal is it the

46:18

one potentially where three judges look all of

46:20

the evidence and make a decision I think

46:22

it might be that one yeah and so

46:24

whoever brings it to the court of appeal

46:26

there have to be like specific reasons that

46:29

you bring it and then those reasons are

46:31

what the judges then look at and if

46:33

they can't then disagree with those reasons,

46:35

if they agree with those reasons,

46:38

they can then overturn the original.

46:40

And you've got to accept that.

46:42

You've got three of the best

46:44

judges in the land hearing this

46:46

appeal, poring over all of the

46:48

evidence and coming to a unanimous

46:50

decision or, you know, a decision

46:52

where the majority of them agree

46:55

that... that it's not a safe

46:57

conviction and I suppose there's a

46:59

difference between it not being a

47:01

safe conviction and somebody not being

47:03

guilty so even the judges might

47:05

have felt well I think they've

47:07

done it or what I think

47:09

one of them did it but

47:11

actually when we look at the

47:13

matter of law we can't prove

47:15

definitively that it was a fair trial or

47:17

that they did so yeah it almost doesn't

47:20

it's just in the eyes of the

47:22

law yeah Is it fair? Is this trial

47:24

fair and just? There was a

47:26

really interesting quote from actually Shirley

47:28

Bamfield's defence, where the defence actually

47:30

kind of said in a, you

47:33

know, like in a comment, well

47:35

yeah, they probably both did or

47:37

at least one of them did,

47:39

but it can't be proved, so it's

47:41

absolutely had to go to the court

47:43

of appeal. Yeah, it probably comes

47:45

back to me of the whole judicial

47:48

process in this country and in most

47:50

countries actually, it does vary a bit

47:52

but it's quite similar in a lot

47:54

of countries. I just don't think it's

47:57

fit for purpose anymore. I think it

47:59

needs a completely... overall I'm no expert

48:01

I don't know but we just come

48:03

across a lot of these frustrations and

48:05

I just think I just don't really

48:08

agree I hear all sorts of horror

48:10

stories of juries deliberating on a case

48:12

and they just want to fucking be

48:14

done with it so they just like

48:16

whatever go with the majority and I

48:19

just don't think it works fully really

48:21

I think there's a lot of unsafe

48:23

convictions out there I really do and

48:25

it is I find it really sad

48:28

because Personally, and I know you're the

48:30

same as me, I want to do

48:32

jury duty. I want to do my

48:34

duties as a citizen. I want to

48:36

be involved in that. And I would,

48:39

if I'm given the opportunity, I will

48:41

take it seriously. I will 100% be

48:43

taking notes and wanting to ensure that

48:45

I play my part. And there are

48:48

so many people you see all the

48:50

time. Oh, I've been called for jury

48:52

duty, but I don't want to do

48:54

it. How do I get out of

48:56

this? What can I say to get

48:59

out of it? That's just awful. Like

49:01

I don't, I don't get into the,

49:03

I can't get the headspace of people

49:05

who can't be bothered to be a

49:08

part of society in that way. And

49:10

I do, obviously sometimes there's a really

49:12

valid reason, but a lot of the

49:14

time I'm like, why don't you, why

49:16

can't you be bothered? And a lot

49:19

of them are kind of like, oh,

49:21

I don't want to, I can't be

49:23

asked. And like you said, then you

49:25

hear of juries of juries, or she's

49:28

innocent or whatever. Or stories where it's

49:30

just a case of whoever's got the

49:32

most money and the best barrister and

49:34

legal team. Well that's always there. Yeah,

49:36

and so that's not fair. Yeah, I

49:39

just bother, the more we do this

49:41

show and we're getting on for 400

49:43

episodes really with all of the bonus

49:45

ones on Patreon. That's a lot of

49:48

cases, that's thousands of hours of research

49:50

that we've done, hundreds of different cases

49:52

we've come across where there is a

49:54

trial and... Yeah, I'm just, I'm not,

49:56

I'm absolutely, I'm not saying I'm an

49:59

expert, but I'm just... feeling anecdotally that

50:01

it doesn't really work that well I

50:03

think it needs to know. It's hard

50:05

though isn't it because what is the

50:08

what is the alternative because actually being

50:10

tried with a jury of your peers

50:12

is absolutely the right thing and you

50:14

know on paper that's the right thing

50:16

but like you said it it doesn't

50:19

always work and it isn't always there.

50:21

And you know I'm going to be

50:23

completely honest when I did jury service

50:25

last time a few months ago a

50:28

couple of months ago. Complete waste of

50:30

time. It was terribly run. That might

50:32

just be that particular court. It was

50:34

Warwick Crown Court. Other Crown courts might

50:36

be better. I don't think they are

50:39

from my experience. But you should have

50:41

seen just looking around the room of...

50:43

the people that were being selected for

50:45

jury service just and I know that's

50:48

really judgment but like fuck me some

50:50

of them I just thought they couldn't

50:52

even string the fucking sentence together because

50:54

you have to have a fair selection

50:56

of the of societies they can't string

50:59

a sentence together and then they haven't

51:01

to decide whether someone's guilty murder or

51:03

something I was just like really so

51:05

I think there should be an IQ

51:07

test but then do you know what

51:10

though you get into something like that

51:12

and you're going to end up with

51:14

only rich people getting off because the

51:16

rich people in the jury. A privilege

51:19

didn't have to have had a great

51:21

education. Yeah. They'll see someone who's poor

51:23

or from a background that they don't

51:25

understand and they'll just agree straight away

51:27

that it's so impossible isn't it? Yeah.

51:30

I do agree with you that it

51:32

needs an overhaul but I have no

51:34

idea how that could be done any

51:36

better. No. And then you hear of

51:39

judges that are corrupt anyway as well

51:41

and you just think these are the

51:43

people who should in theory know the

51:45

full law inside and out and be

51:47

the ones we can trust and that's

51:50

obviously a lot more rare. It's usually

51:52

a judge if ever there is a

51:54

man that is found with an orange

51:56

in his mouth and a fucking gimp

51:59

mask tied up to a whatever it's

52:01

normally a high court judge. isn't it?

52:03

So they're not trustworthy, they get all

52:05

sorts of normal things. All doing coke

52:07

and wearing gimp masks at the weekends.

52:10

Wow. We're not ending on that bombshell

52:12

because I have got one other thing

52:14

to say but it's actually probably going

52:16

to really annoy you even more. So

52:19

what I can't find out with this

52:21

case is Shirley and Annette were then

52:23

released a year after their conviction for

52:25

murder. Released from prison and there's some

52:27

really interesting things. There was... a lot

52:30

talked about within the trial and in

52:32

the media about a notebook that Lynette

52:34

had written loads of things in. I

52:36

have specifically chosen not to reference any

52:39

of that because the notebook was basically

52:41

a creative writing notebook but within some

52:43

of the creative writing there were descriptions

52:45

of putting a body in a car

52:47

driving it somewhere disposing of a body

52:50

talking about the smell and it was

52:52

quite clear to... the prosecution that these

52:54

were real things that had happened that

52:56

she had written about. However, those notebooks

52:59

were then deemed inadmissible because it's creative

53:01

writing and everything else in there was

53:03

creative writing. And she actually has written

53:05

to newspapers and they've written the amendments

53:07

towards the bottom of the page. We

53:10

would like to make it noted that

53:12

Lynette has been in touch and has

53:14

confirmed that those notebooks were not admissible

53:16

after the fact. They were actually struck

53:19

from the record, so we need to

53:21

remove... but they don't remove it from

53:23

the article, they keep it in there,

53:25

but they then kind of set the

53:27

bottom, but don't believe the stuff about

53:30

the notebooks. So, you know, they've been

53:32

out of prison for quite a while.

53:34

Why were they, why were they not

53:36

then in custody to serve the fraud

53:39

charges? Yeah, they're admitted to that. So

53:41

it's almost like that's their compensation or,

53:43

you know, we're really sorry we fucked

53:45

up on the murder conviction and you

53:47

didn't do it, so we're going to

53:50

like... get rid of that part of

53:52

the sentence and we'll just let you

53:54

out now we'll just let you out

53:56

because yeah it's almost like that but

53:58

I can see the notes you've got

54:01

coming up which I think could be

54:03

right here. Yeah because I wondered when

54:05

you read about the sentencing there was

54:07

no mention of any sentences for the

54:10

fraud element that they pled guilty for

54:12

there's only sentencing for the murder so

54:14

do you think that the prosecution or

54:16

the courts just went for the main

54:18

conviction didn't go for any concurrent sentencing?

54:21

If so how annoying because they could

54:23

have at least been in for a

54:25

couple more years for the fraud charges?

54:27

Yeah or several years it could have been

54:29

but yeah I think it's sometimes just a

54:32

case yeah it would have probably been concurrent

54:34

it would have been concurrent so two separate

54:36

sentencing one for the fraud charges and one

54:38

for the murder and they just run at

54:41

the same time and maybe they did just

54:43

go with the murder one at the end

54:45

of the day because that's the big one

54:48

that's the one that matters and then this

54:50

is almost just a weird loophole technicality that

54:52

means they don't end up serving anything more

54:54

than they've already done which is like a

54:57

year so yeah we had very lucky fortunate

54:59

there really and I mean I might be

55:01

completely wrong I could be completely wrong

55:03

and actually they neither of them

55:06

did this they fraudulently took his money

55:08

it snowballed they started doing it just

55:10

to piss him off because they were

55:12

like well you fucked off without us

55:14

we'll do this expected him to come

55:16

back a year later pissed off he

55:18

didn't and they went well Let's just

55:20

see how long we can keep this

55:22

going for. They didn't have anything to

55:24

do with this murder. He could have

55:26

been killed by some random stranger. There

55:28

could have been some really unexpected. Yeah. But

55:30

then his body would have surely. show

55:32

love. I don't, yeah, potentially, but

55:34

not, it doesn't always happen or...

55:36

No. Shirley's quite plausible what she

55:38

said that she was trying to

55:40

get his attention with the actions

55:42

that she was taking. It reads

55:44

as a plausible thing to do, like I

55:46

get it, so... Yes, he could have

55:49

just had an accident. Yeah, I don't

55:51

believe it. I do not believe it. I

55:53

believe that these two women did kill him

55:55

and then they did this to get his

55:57

money and they thought they could get away

55:59

with this. but I do think like wow

56:01

I could I could 100% be wrong

56:03

and you know the case that we

56:05

talked about on one of our bonus

56:08

episodes recently and there was a chap

56:10

and I feel really guilty for not

56:12

remembering his name but he fell into

56:14

an industrial waste crusher and the only

56:16

reason that they found out this is

56:18

very recent was because the CCTV showed

56:20

but if they hadn't have had CCTV

56:22

of that happening his boss had said

56:24

he'd left the the the like this

56:26

site and he'd gone but he'd gone

56:29

into it to kind of push some

56:31

debris through and his boss should have

56:33

turned it off but he then just

56:35

ended up falling in and being pulverized

56:37

or whatever it was like something like

56:39

that could have happened Don could have

56:41

fallen into a quagmire I don't know

56:43

but you know something could have happened

56:45

where he's not found and it wasn't

56:47

anything to do with them I don't

56:50

I personally don't believe that but I

56:52

do then think actually in that case

56:54

the courts were 100% correct with the

56:56

appeals process And also I think you

56:58

have to accept, you know, if you

57:00

live in this country and you're an

57:02

active citizen and you engage in the

57:04

voting process and all of that, you

57:06

know, you have to accept if you're

57:08

choosing to live here or you're born

57:11

here, whatever, you've got to accept what

57:13

the judicial process is and three judges

57:15

here have said that was an unsafe

57:17

conviction and therefore they are innocent. So

57:19

you have to accept it, whether you

57:21

like it or not, you have to

57:23

accept that they're innocent. Even if you

57:25

believe that actually they're not because I'm

57:27

with you Beth and I think one

57:29

or both of them were involved in

57:32

his Maybe it had been an accident.

57:34

They've gone too far. Maybe they did

57:36

plan on killing him. Who knows? But

57:38

I think yeah, there's definitely foul play

57:40

in my opinion But I don't know

57:42

you have to accept what what those

57:44

judges have said So there we go.

57:46

What a really fascinating kind of roller

57:48

coaster a roller coaster. Yeah really really

57:50

sad as well because at the heart

57:53

of it is Don, you see pictures

57:55

of him and he just looks like

57:57

a nice bloke. All the people who

57:59

knew him from William Hill kind of

58:01

described him as this, you know, real,

58:03

signing star in the community people would

58:05

always talk to them really highly and

58:07

then yeah to just disappear and still

58:09

there's no answers obviously Lynette and Shirley

58:11

if they were responsible I'm not going

58:13

to talk about this anymore I mean

58:16

they could because they can't be tried

58:18

for the same crime twice well they

58:20

could now well they could actually I

58:22

suppose because if they confess and and

58:24

that gave evidence but they're not I

58:26

don't see that they would I don't

58:28

see why they would they've said that

58:30

they didn't do this and they've been

58:32

proven by the courts by the courts

58:34

that they didn't they didn't There's a

58:37

small part of me. Of course, yeah.

58:39

There's a small part of me and

58:41

I think this is a nice way

58:43

to end it. There's a small part

58:45

of me that, a tiny part of

58:47

me that wants to believe that Don

58:49

did make it to Trinidad or to

58:51

another island somewhere. Yeah, and he's living

58:53

his best life and this is all

58:55

just, you know, this... And his family

58:58

have lied to the police and said,

59:00

well, we haven't seen him for a

59:02

while. But, we haven't seen him. Yeah,

59:04

I highly doubt it, but there was

59:06

a tiny point. We don't want to

59:08

live in that hope, yeah. So there

59:10

we go, guys. Thank you for joining

59:12

us once again and for listening to

59:14

this episode. Please do let us know

59:16

your thoughts in the comments under the

59:19

episode or under the episode. I know

59:21

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59:23

Patreon or I know that Spotify you

59:25

can leave comments as well, which is

59:27

really fun to read through, but I

59:29

don't think we can reply to them,

59:31

which is annoying. And don't forget to

59:33

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59:35

And it's, I got it, I've got

59:37

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59:40

at patron.com/seeing red podcast. Thank you all

59:42

and we'll be back next week for

59:44

another case so we will see them.

59:46

See you then guys, bye. Bye.