0:00

Hi, welcome to today's episode of

0:02

the Selman podcast, Q and A

0:04

edition. As always, we have the,

0:06

I think every week I'm going

0:08

to use a different word to

0:10

describe your Liam. This way we

0:12

have the lovely Liam, who's going

0:15

to be throwing some questions by

0:17

the way, and also answering some

0:19

questions himself. So without Liam, how's

0:21

it? Thank you, Will. I'm flattered by

0:23

your spontaneity and your, you're

0:25

just, your willingness to, to

0:27

flatter, to you know. cut a little

0:29

something over the weekend. My pretty much

0:32

my whole family had something so yeah

0:34

it just they just passed it on

0:36

to me that's one of my inheritance

0:38

for this weekend but yeah everything's good

0:40

overall. Good man. All right then again I

0:42

said this last time for the audience last

0:45

week I have a baby class that I've

0:47

got to go to after this recording and

0:49

so let's not faf around let's jump straight

0:51

into it before I then go and learn

0:53

how to change an happy in baby class.

0:56

the audience. Half the audience, like what the

0:58

heck? He's talking about the other half

1:00

the audience, probably parents, and like, oh

1:02

yeah, he does know what he's in for.

1:04

And so we're not letting him tell us,

1:06

tell us the first question, who's it come

1:08

from? And I know, what are we diving

1:10

into? Well, as always to the people

1:13

listening at home, these are questions we

1:15

gather from our communities, our YouTube channel,

1:17

emails that we get, and then here

1:19

we obviously tackle them, we get into

1:21

them, we get into them. name of the

1:24

person anonymous just to protect

1:26

everybody's privacy and with that

1:28

setless kids straight into it. Hey

1:30

team, I've been thinking about how buyers

1:33

actually make decisions. We always assume

1:35

it's based on logic, ROI, features,

1:37

cost, but I'm starting to feel like

1:39

it's way more emotional than we give

1:42

it credit for. I've seen deals won

1:44

or lost just because someone felt

1:46

better about one option over the

1:48

other. How do you tap into the

1:50

emotional side of buying decisions

1:52

without being manipulative?

1:54

I would advise people to not to

1:57

deal with the emotions up front

1:59

and then... down a logical, to

2:01

push the sale towards a logical conclusion.

2:03

Because emotions are flipped, emotions are all

2:05

over the place. You have a bit

2:08

of a cold, which is totally, you're

2:10

probably feeling a bit like them there.

2:12

You'll make different decisions today than you

2:14

will next week when you fully recover

2:16

from your cold. That is not very

2:19

productive to have a sustainable pipeline and

2:21

to make a bunch of money in

2:23

BTP sales. What we want is, does

2:25

it make sense to do this? Yes,

2:27

it does make sense, okay. deal closed.

2:30

Does it make sense to do this?

2:32

Yes, it does make sense. Deal closed.

2:34

So we can address the question in

2:36

two ways, I guess, or in two

2:38

steps. First off is to deal with

2:41

the emotion. If someone feels something, you

2:43

should ask them, why do you feel

2:45

that? Most of the time, people live,

2:47

you and I as well, and you're

2:50

the personalist to this episode as well,

2:52

we live in this bubble, where we

2:54

feel stuff, but that is our perception

2:56

of reality. we're almost playing this like

2:58

super intense VR computer game where everything

3:01

in front of us is not real

3:03

it's just a series of inputs that

3:05

we interpret and so your feelings are

3:07

via the very nature typically quite illogical

3:09

so if someone feels something about a

3:12

software product for example why do you

3:14

feel that way? Oh well it's not

3:16

really the product it's the person or

3:18

it's the company or it's the prestige

3:20

of this or this or this person's

3:23

giving me a discount, it's going to

3:25

make me look good from my bus.

3:27

So now that we know what the

3:29

actual reality is that we have to

3:31

compete with or improve upon, then we

3:34

can move to the logical next step

3:36

of, okay, we also want from that

3:38

feature, we also have that outcome, we

3:40

can potentially compete on pricing or we

3:42

can negotiate either way in that we

3:45

can do them of value for the

3:47

price that we offer. And now you're

3:49

in the tangible world, now you're in

3:51

the logical world, and now it rather

3:53

than feeling... the by feeling the way

3:56

through making a decision, you can help

3:58

them decide and make those make logical

4:00

decisions to take that next step and

4:02

take that. next step. And you typically

4:04

find that when you do this from

4:07

a position of I'm just trying to

4:09

help the person get the best result

4:11

as opposed to I'm using it as

4:13

a way to manipulate or trick them

4:15

or influence them or push them one

4:18

way or another. When your intention is

4:20

well for you probably get into the

4:22

logical next step or the logical end

4:24

conclusion is the best thing for you

4:26

to do. I'll help you do that.

4:29

You'll find that buyers will fight you

4:31

for it. They might not know what's

4:33

happened. and you don't necessarily need to

4:35

tell them that you were, they were

4:38

an emotional mess for the 30 minutes,

4:40

for the 30 minutes at the beginning

4:42

of the call. As you're doing obviously

4:44

a lot of the calls now at

4:46

salesman.com and as I do them as

4:49

well, a lot of people jump on

4:51

the calls, I'm overwhelmed, this isn't working,

4:53

my boss is on my back, I've

4:55

got this problem, very quickly, the goal

4:57

is to calm everything down, I go

5:00

okay, well are you doing called outreach,

5:02

what are your conversion rates, for that

5:04

initial discovery call, people aren't even showing

5:06

up for it. How do we get

5:08

people to show up for that meeting?

5:11

Okay, great. Our service can help you

5:13

with that, risk via some training. And

5:15

people then have clarity, if you're less

5:17

overwhelmed, and it's then easier for them

5:19

to make a decision. Because there's not

5:22

all this big cloud of ambiguity that

5:24

they're swing through, they get to go,

5:26

okay, well, this is the problem, this

5:28

is a potential solution. The risk is

5:30

this, the upside is that, yes. to

5:33

move forward with. And I guess just

5:35

to clarify, this is for B2B sales,

5:37

where there's more than one person involved

5:39

in the buying process typically and it's

5:41

somewhat complex. If you're buying a Ferrari,

5:44

it's 100% emotional because logically it makes

5:46

no sense. Absolutely. And no matter how

5:48

you try and trick yourself, it makes

5:50

no sense whatsoever to buy an expensive

5:52

car for the road. It is dupe.

5:55

It is complete waste of money. And

5:57

then the time and the energy that

5:59

comes into maintaining it, maintaining it. unless

6:01

you've got a staff that can manage

6:03

your portfolio. cars, perhaps a different game

6:06

then, but yeah, it's absolutely, it's absolutely

6:08

an emotional decision to spend more than

6:10

40 grand on a car. So if

6:12

that's what you're doing, fine. We need

6:15

to manage your emotions. The BTC sales

6:17

process often differs from that perspective. But

6:19

in B2B sales, understand their emotions, hear

6:21

them out, help them see the logic,

6:23

and then put the logical next step

6:26

in front of them. And if you

6:28

do that enough times, the eventual logical

6:30

next step will be... Yes, said the

6:32

invoice over, let's get started. That was

6:34

a bit of a bit of a

6:37

rant there Liam, but did that make

6:39

sense? No, I loved it, but I

6:41

do have one objection, but Will, the

6:43

Lambeau is really going to help me

6:45

out with my networking. So, I give

6:48

you an example. Here in Leeds, I

6:50

think it's Yorkshire, there is a surf

6:52

car club, right? Okay, nice. And you

6:54

have to have to have, the minimum

6:56

car to join the club is a

6:59

Porsche 9-11. Nice. So if that is

7:01

your goal, which is not an unreasonable

7:03

goal right to hang out over a

7:05

bunch of local entrepreneurs, you should buy

7:07

the cheapest, crappiest 9-11 you can possibly

7:10

find, and sure you may not have

7:12

status in the group, at least before

7:14

you stop speaking to people, but you're

7:16

in the door. Alternatively, you could do

7:18

what I did, which is by mistake,

7:21

this is why I know this exists,

7:23

because it's kind of like a secret

7:25

club in Yorkshire. I was walking, I

7:27

wasn't walking the dog, I didn't have

7:29

the dog yet, I was just walking

7:32

before, because I worked from home, I

7:34

always worked from home, with seldom.com, I

7:36

always go for a walk in the

7:38

mornings. So I was walking round round

7:40

hay up in Leeds, anyone round here

7:43

would know round hay, and there was

7:45

just like 30 Ferrari parks in a

7:47

car park by the, the, the, the,

7:49

kind of like, green grassland and park

7:51

that we're having round hay. There's like,

7:54

like, like, like, what the heck's going

7:56

on, what the heck's going on, I

7:58

just went on, I just went on,

8:00

I went over, I went over, I

8:03

went over, I went over, I just

8:05

went over and started, I started, I

8:07

started, I started, I started, I started,

8:09

I started, starting, starting, starting, starting, starting,

8:11

starting, starting, starting, starting, starting, starting, starting,

8:14

starting, starting, starting, starting, starting, starting, starting,

8:16

starting, different questions and different things. So

8:18

you don't even have to have the

8:20

car, you can hack the process. So

8:22

yeah, that's how you logically kind of

8:25

get around that. But yeah, I, the

8:27

only, if you, obviously you've been, you're

8:29

joking about, but there is, even with

8:31

social media, like if you have a

8:33

nice car, perhaps a little bit of

8:36

social proof, but the time and energy

8:38

that you've spent on that, if you

8:40

spend on your offer for the product,

8:42

that's probably still better time spent. Obviously

8:44

if you love cars and stuff, buy

8:47

what you want, buy what you can

8:49

afford. but just appreciate it's a complete

8:51

waste of money and it's an emotional

8:53

decision. Coming from someone who's had lots

8:55

of nice fast cars. Yeah, I'm a

8:58

sucker for it as well. Nice, no,

9:00

absolutely. To that I would add, I

9:02

think definitely you want to be able

9:04

to mix the emotional with the logical,

9:06

especially in B2B cells. You do want,

9:09

you do tend to, like you said,

9:11

lead with the emotion and then finalize,

9:13

you know, closing details with more logic,

9:15

ROI, getting the right people involved. One

9:17

thing that has worked for me is

9:20

having the ability to, because the person

9:22

is asking here, how can we tap

9:24

more into the emotional side, right, without

9:26

being manipulative? And for me, there's a

9:28

way of tapping the emotional side in

9:31

a logical way, if that makes sense.

9:33

Now, let me expand on that for

9:35

a second. Let's say, for example, we

9:37

are talking to a CFO and we

9:39

are talking maybe through some of the...

9:42

logical hurdles that they're facing in their

9:44

business right now as we typically do

9:46

in BTB sales. Asking a side effect

9:48

question can be a logical thing to

9:51

ask that is very business appropriate, but

9:53

it is tapping into something emotional about

9:55

the CFO. Asking a question, you know,

9:57

we call these impact questions like curious,

9:59

Mr. CFO, how is this impacting your

10:02

bottom line? Right so we can start

10:04

there and just interweaving brief questions like

10:06

okay, you know some people this may

10:08

be a priority some others not so

10:10

much I'm just curious, how do you

10:13

feel about this? Right, so that's more

10:15

of an emotional question, but I'm weaving

10:17

it in a more logical, practical way.

10:19

It doesn't have to be always like

10:21

some weird, super emotional, like how is

10:24

this going to impact your family type

10:26

of question. You know, those type of

10:28

questions are always super weird. But you

10:30

can do so in a practical, logical

10:32

way still. What do you think? Sure.

10:35

I consider that, like reinforcement of the

10:37

logic. Right. So how does that affect

10:39

your bottom line? It'll make, to put,

10:41

thinking machine, machine, whereas bottom line goes

10:43

up. Okay, great. How does that affect

10:46

whatever it is? It's not, it's almost

10:48

the same question but to build status

10:50

quo on top of, to build more

10:52

weight into the previous question. Because if

10:54

you're especially we dealing with executives, if

10:57

you're dealing with people, could of your...

10:59

you know above the line of the

11:01

of the kind of executive board or

11:03

of the middle management essentially into the

11:05

executive suite they only care about four

11:08

things three things really more money more

11:10

efficiency reduction in legislative risk or legal

11:12

risk that is it so everything is

11:14

good to come back to that but

11:16

what you're describing of once we get

11:19

to that point reinforcing it of how

11:21

would that make you feel which is

11:23

a question you asked that I asked

11:25

all the time which is on the

11:28

right side of you know, you don't

11:30

want to talk about how it's going

11:32

to, unless they're over to, we don't

11:34

want to talk about how it affects

11:36

their family or, you know, it's just,

11:39

it's very weird, very quickly. That can

11:41

come further down the line, right, when

11:43

you know in the person for years

11:45

and, you perhaps have a better understanding

11:47

about them. But I might ask, especially

11:50

with sales people that we work with

11:52

at sales. It's a, well, you could

11:54

ask that to a CFO. they may

11:56

not tell you. They might be pissed

11:58

that you're asking about the salary, but

12:01

you've got to do its... from the

12:03

context of the person that you're engaging

12:05

with. So it's absolutely a probate thing

12:07

to ask a salesperson. And then what

12:09

is your goal? Well, I'm trying to

12:12

get to 500K. Why do you want

12:14

to get to 500K? Because I want

12:16

to, I've got some debt, I'm trying

12:18

to get rid of the debt, and

12:20

I would like to pay off my

12:23

mortgage, so I feel more secure. Oh,

12:25

well, what makes you feel unsecured? Okay

12:27

great so maybe I won't go any

12:29

deeper than that I wouldn't be asking

12:31

of how this is going to affect

12:34

the kids future because again as you

12:36

said you can't start getting a little

12:38

bit weird at a certain point and

12:40

but that reinforcement of yes the goals

12:42

half a million how do we get

12:45

there is it possible and that then

12:47

becomes the next step of the process

12:49

so if I was to draw this

12:51

out it would be logical step reinforcement

12:53

logical step reinforcement So the emotion is

12:56

almost getting piled on top of the

12:58

logic as you go through the process.

13:00

That looks nice. I love that. Next

13:02

question here. I will. I keep hearing

13:04

that top sales people ask a better

13:07

question, but what does that actually mean?

13:09

I ask plenty of questions, but I

13:11

don't always feel like I'm getting to

13:13

the real pain points. How do you

13:16

ask questions in a way that makes

13:18

prospects open up and actually tell you

13:20

what's on their mind? So there are

13:22

good questions and there are bad questions.

13:24

And there are little gray area in

13:27

between. There is pretty binary. Bad question

13:29

is something that you know that they

13:31

know you know that you're asking anyway.

13:33

So are you having success? Or are

13:35

you asking almost any BSP salesperson? Are

13:38

you, well this shouldn't be the case

13:40

but unfortunately is, are you hitting quotes

13:42

right now? Almost everyone's not in quota.

13:44

So there's a dumb question to ask.

13:46

You might add, another bad question might

13:49

be, tell me how long you've been

13:51

in business. You can just go on

13:53

the LinkedIn profile and you can look

13:55

at these questions, right? So immediately all

13:57

them get cold. So now you're 50.

14:00

50% better asking questions like that for

14:02

30, 40 years. Then we've got an

14:04

iceberg effect of good questions, because

14:06

a good question could, and a question

14:08

that could get a deal done, could be

14:10

as simple as, you know, what do you

14:12

need to happen for this to close? It's

14:14

not original. It's been, people have been

14:17

saying questions like that for 30, 40

14:19

years. It's well ingrained, it should be

14:21

well ingrained to most of the people

14:23

listening to this episode, to ask questions

14:25

like that for out of the process.

14:27

you're helping the buyer coach you on what

14:30

they think the solution is and if they know

14:32

what the solution is or they've got strong opinions,

14:34

they're going to tell you if you can deliver

14:36

it and you're like great, I think we can

14:38

help with that. But then you start going down the

14:40

iceberg and then you start to get questions

14:43

that drive curiosity in the individual

14:45

or you've got questions that include

14:47

an insight. So hey, for example,

14:49

Selham.com Academy, we've got our sales code

14:51

assessment, it was public facing, I just

14:53

gobbledbled everyone's data to data to be

14:55

quite frank. 30,000 people have been in

14:57

it, have been through it. So we

14:59

know pretty precisely at this point, the

15:02

traits that make up a high performing

15:04

sales person. So if I was working with

15:06

EP of sales, I could say, okay, great.

15:08

How do you know if the people that

15:10

you are hiring are going to have success?

15:12

And it's a loaded question because I

15:14

know what the answer is. Oh, I'm not

15:16

sure. Okay, well, we've got this assessment.

15:19

Would it make sense if I explain

15:21

the three or four key traits that

15:23

all top professionals have? Yes, please tell

15:25

me? So now we're sharing an insight within

15:28

a question that is obviously a leading

15:30

question to take so on on the

15:32

pathway that we want to take them

15:34

on. So then you get like

15:36

layers upon layers of sophistication with questions,

15:39

but really you should be looking at two

15:41

things. One, is this question going to

15:43

help the buyer move to the next

15:45

step of the sales process? Does it

15:47

make sense to do this? The microclosing

15:50

process that we talk about all the

15:52

time? And then the other question is, the

15:54

other type of questions are questions that make

15:56

the buyers stop and think. So questions

15:59

that make the buyer go... Oh, I hadn't considered

16:01

that before. Well, now you mentioned that.

16:03

I've always wondered how that works. They're

16:05

the other questions that I consider good

16:07

questions and you don't need lots of

16:09

them. One or two per conversation is

16:11

often enough. And that shows the gap

16:13

between where the buyer is, where they

16:15

could be if they work with you

16:18

and that's typically what we need to

16:20

make that sale, right? What the current

16:22

reality is and the future reality when

16:24

I stretch it so far apart, we

16:26

want to breathe a bridge from one

16:28

side to the other. And if we

16:30

have inside a knowledge or industry knowledge

16:32

that they need to make that leap,

16:35

we want to communicate that via a

16:37

question so that we can demonstrate that

16:39

knowledge without telling them that we're the

16:41

best. So no one wants to hear

16:43

that, right? No one wants to engage

16:45

with someone who's broke. Absolutely

16:48

and along that same trail, what

16:50

would you say are the most

16:52

important questions that we, that typically

16:55

bring the best success in these

16:57

types of calls that, just to

16:59

give the people listening at home

17:01

practical questions that they can take

17:03

and ask on the next call.

17:05

Cool, so super basic. What is

17:07

the timeframe for this project? Is

17:09

there a budget for this project?

17:11

The obvious kind of like banned

17:13

questions or meant to pick questions

17:15

or medic questions. There's a gazillion

17:17

acronyms for this, right? Maybe we

17:20

talked about this last week because

17:22

I'm not asking you to remind

17:24

me the word acronym. So yeah,

17:26

maybe I'm slightly more caffeinated today.

17:28

That's the key to find a

17:30

bit quicker. But yeah, they're the

17:32

basics you've got to ask them.

17:34

It's gotta be done. If you

17:36

go into a conversation, if you

17:38

go into conversation three with the

17:40

buyer, the meeting number three or

17:42

four, whatever the mean is, and

17:45

you don't know the timeframes that

17:47

they need to solve this problem

17:49

by, or yeah, because I was

17:51

gonna say, or there is no

17:53

timeframe because you only know that

17:55

as you ask the question, then

17:57

you are terrible at sales. Sorry

17:59

to call you out. as you're listening to

18:01

this show and you're looking for some good

18:03

vibes as you're driving to your

18:06

next meeting and you're wanting to

18:08

be positively reinforced, reinforced. If you're

18:10

not asking the basic qualification questions you

18:12

saw and you need to read a

18:14

book or join our training programme or

18:16

watch one of the many sales experts that

18:18

are on YouTube or all continue listening

18:21

to this podcast. So that's a bit

18:23

tough love for you. Once you pass those

18:25

kind of questions... There's a couple of

18:27

questions I'd like to ask, one of

18:29

which I ask on, almost every single

18:31

call, you should be asking this

18:34

question as well, Liam, when you are

18:36

doing, hosting calls for sales.com

18:38

Academy, when people want to

18:40

join, the question is, what's stopping you

18:42

from doing this yourself? And what

18:45

we're trying to pull out of the buy here,

18:47

or the potential buy is the

18:49

DIY objection, which holds, show me deals

18:51

back, and it is complete, it is

18:53

complete nonsense. could do this

18:55

myself, but, and what we're looking for is the

18:57

but. So we want to, because we want

18:59

to work with capable people. We want

19:02

to work people who probably could sort

19:04

this out themselves eventually. They're the best

19:06

buyers, because they're the ones that are

19:08

going to put in the effort and

19:10

the resources to get the job done. Correct.

19:12

But we want to hear that but,

19:14

but, I don't have the expertise, but

19:16

there is some insider knowledge that you

19:18

specifically have, I can't get from anywhere

19:20

else. Why don't you get that but? then the

19:23

deal at that point, as long as

19:25

everything else falls in line with budget

19:27

time frames, you speak to the right person,

19:29

all that good stuff, then the deal

19:31

is almost done. The buyer has almost

19:34

made a decision then of I can do

19:36

this, which means that they've at

19:38

least considered whether it should be done,

19:40

so they are probably at least

19:42

considering that it should be done,

19:44

which is obviously the first hurdle

19:47

of convincing someone the value of

19:49

the implementation service. They're

19:51

thinking, oh, could do this, but I can't,

19:53

I need help. And that's, I don't know what

19:56

you, Liam, and I think it might also be

19:58

a bit of a bloke thing, but I... have

20:00

a problem asking for help and I've

20:02

had feedback on the podcast in the

20:04

past from different guests saying that I

20:07

should ask for more help but I'm

20:09

I will just sit there like an

20:11

idiot and bang the head against the

20:13

wall trying to solve them problem myself

20:15

but there's lots of people around in

20:18

both the business community the sales community

20:20

and that and you obviously you're part

20:22

of the team now you might see

20:24

this moving forward and so feel free

20:27

to offer to help when your expertise

20:29

are a good fit and I'll probably

20:31

refuse them. And it's not like ego,

20:33

I don't think it's pride, I think

20:35

it's almost like a control freak thing.

20:38

But most people are wired at least

20:40

somewhat like that. So when they admit

20:42

to you, oh yeah, I can't do

20:44

this because I need it done now,

20:47

and rather time, I don't have the

20:49

extra time in my calendar to make

20:51

this happen, then you go, okay, well

20:53

would you like me to help you?

20:55

So now the entire sales process has

20:58

been flipped on its head. You're no

21:00

longer pushing your pitch at someone. You're

21:02

literally just saying to someone who's just

21:04

said that they need a hand, would

21:07

you like me to help? And that's,

21:09

you know, I kind of went down

21:11

the rabbit hole with that question. That's

21:13

one question that I like to ask,

21:16

and I consider that a, it's not

21:18

even particularly sophisticated, but I consider that

21:20

a good question to ask. No, absolutely.

21:22

And, you know, a common pattern that

21:24

I see is these fundamental questions that

21:27

are not too fancy that, you know,

21:29

that get you most of the result

21:31

for, you put that you put in.

21:33

And I love that DIY question because

21:36

there are many times where you have

21:38

a complete evaluation with a client and

21:40

then maybe you go through six meetings,

21:42

you integrate multiple decision makers, and then

21:44

at the end of the call you've

21:47

been running this deal cycle for three

21:49

months and then they say, you know

21:51

what, we're just, we think we're going

21:53

to do it in-house, right? And you

21:56

could have just saved yourself so much

21:58

time if you would have asked that

22:00

that purposeful question that you asked earlier.

22:02

and I don't know the percentage, 80%

22:05

of the time it doesn't work and

22:07

they come back to you three years.

22:09

Yeah, it's a mess. Anyway, so yeah,

22:11

so asking that question up front, allowing

22:13

them to work it out, is it

22:16

possible? And I'm being open to being

22:18

told, no, I don't know if this

22:20

is going to be a good fit,

22:22

because at least you've got the objection

22:25

then, and you can try and deal

22:27

with it, if you choose to. And

22:29

the other thing that we'll just kind

22:31

of wrap this question upon is, and

22:33

I've started doing this more, and I

22:36

feel like it has. So you got

22:38

to build reports, I mean you can't

22:40

do this straight out of the gate,

22:42

and once you build reports on it,

22:45

they say something that's pretty dumb, which,

22:47

you know, we're all talking in real

22:49

time, on this podcast episode itself, I

22:51

probably said something that's pretty dumb, but

22:54

you're unaware of it, because you're saying

22:56

it, right? So you've probably got a

22:58

clip in your mind right now, Liam,

23:00

that we're going to make a YouTube

23:02

video, whereas me saying something dumb and

23:05

then I don't realize that I don't

23:07

realize that I've said something, I've said

23:09

something, I've said something, I've said something,

23:11

I've said something dumb. half-truths, or it's

23:14

a belief as opposed to fact, but

23:16

we present it as fact. When someone

23:18

says something like that, I often just

23:20

said, I've done this again, started it

23:22

more and more often, I just repeat

23:25

it back to them. So they might

23:27

say, oh yeah, you know, I believe

23:29

I can do this myself. I might

23:31

go, you can do this yourself? And

23:34

they go, how I do it myself?

23:36

I'm not sure. And it's the fact

23:38

that the brainer said something. Maybe we

23:40

go into the... left and right hemispheres

23:42

and an experiment they did in the

23:45

70s to kind of outline some of

23:47

this in a second if you think

23:49

it'd be interesting but the it's almost

23:51

like your brain has to hear back

23:54

what it said from a different source

23:56

to really evaluate it and the theory

23:58

behind it and there's not a great

24:00

amount of research on this because it's

24:03

terribly unethical to do but I think

24:05

maybe it was the 60s they had

24:07

a bunch of... Unfortunately, mentally ill people

24:09

who had like bipolar, like severe bipolar,

24:11

and what they did was basically sever

24:14

the two. two hemispheres of the brain.

24:16

They just plucked them apart. So the

24:18

person was still fully functioning, but the

24:20

experiments were to see if the brains

24:23

were, you know, dependent on each other.

24:25

And one of the things they were

24:27

also looking for as well was can

24:29

they remove parts of a brain and

24:31

do those neurons kind of rebuild elsewhere,

24:34

which is true. You can have a

24:36

traumatic brain injury and part of your

24:38

brain can essentially die off. the function

24:40

from that part of the brain can

24:43

be picked up by other parts of

24:45

the brain. Obviously it's very complex. It's

24:47

more complex in practice that I'm outlying

24:49

out there. But one of the experiments

24:52

they did, this experiment is on YouTube.

24:54

It's crazy. They have persons sat with

24:56

a magic board from their nose going

24:58

forward. So which splits both vision on

25:00

both sides and the body parts on

25:03

either side. and they'll have then sworn

25:05

looking forward at them and there's a

25:07

pile of different fruits on the table.

25:09

And they'll say to the person, pick

25:12

your favourite fruit. And each hand will

25:14

pick up a different fruit. Wow. Right?

25:16

It's, I said, well, link in the

25:18

show into this episode. So that suggests

25:20

perhaps, and again, the psychology, there's plenty

25:23

of psychology on this and philosophy. There's

25:25

not a lot of actual data, because

25:27

obviously it's hard. we know now that

25:29

severing people's hemispheres is terrible. It is

25:32

not a medical procedure that leads to

25:34

kind of positive outcomes. So that experiment

25:36

can't really be done anymore. Although those

25:38

experiments can't really be done anymore. But

25:41

what they found was it's almost like

25:43

one hemisphere of your brain is linked

25:45

to speech and language. I think that's

25:47

what we considered the emotional side of

25:49

your brain, the logical side of your

25:52

brain isn't connected with speech and language.

25:54

So it can't, it doesn't have literally

25:56

a voice. And so again when, currently

25:58

going down the rabbit hole here, but

26:01

I. find myself personally and this is

26:03

what the research indicates but isn't kind

26:05

of provable that I almost have

26:07

this at this inner voice going on

26:09

and on for like you didn't do

26:12

this so that was cheap. That's the

26:14

emotional part of you. There's almost

26:16

like another voice at above it

26:19

that observes the emotional voice so

26:21

hopefully this makes sense. People listening

26:23

as well. And so that could

26:25

be the logical side of your

26:28

brain, the logical hemisphere, and it

26:30

could be the emotional hemisphere that

26:32

has the voice that can speak. And so,

26:34

when you, with this questioning technique,

26:37

when someone says something, often

26:39

it's an impulsive response, it

26:41

is something that comes out and it's

26:43

an emotional response of, oh, I don't

26:45

feel good about this or don't like

26:48

the way that works or, however it's

26:50

phrased, when you repeat it back to them.

26:52

Perhaps, and again, we're now definitely

26:54

getting into the realm of pseudoscience

26:57

as I apply kind of

26:59

self-process to this, and perhaps their

27:01

logical brain is hearing it back,

27:03

and then that is then what's

27:06

responding via the emotional brain moving

27:08

forward. And it's the same reason why

27:10

journaling is useful. You get, I find

27:12

I get all my garbage out onto

27:15

the pure. Then when I read it,

27:17

I'm like, well, that's just crazy. That's

27:19

not even the reality that you

27:21

live it. And then my logical brain

27:24

goes, okay, now we can forget about

27:26

that now, because this didn't actually happen,

27:28

or the way that I perceived

27:30

this thing was perhaps incorrect. And

27:32

it's probably, again, now we're definitely in

27:34

the realm of the pseudo science, it's

27:37

probably, it's probably to do with

27:39

the two hemispheres, how they're connected

27:41

to our kind of speech and

27:43

language skills, but all that's kind of

27:45

irrelevant, because practically, I find

27:47

when I repeat back something that is

27:50

a dull statement, people tend to

27:52

then rebut. themselves the dump statement,

27:54

versus if you tell them that

27:56

they're wrong, they'll fight you over it.

27:59

Absolutely. I think this goes

28:01

hand in hand with, I'm sure you've

28:03

read the book by Daniel, I'm gonna

28:05

butcher his last name, Daniel Hineman, but

28:07

it's about thinking fast and slow, right?

28:09

And how we typically have this automatic

28:12

responses that we don't even think about,

28:14

they're unconscious really, that just come out,

28:16

for example. You could be, you know,

28:18

I love the mall analogies. Well, so

28:20

let's say you're in the, you're, you're,

28:23

you're. you're in the mall and you're

28:25

shopping for some clothes and then the

28:27

clerk comes up to you and says

28:29

and you've probably been looking for this

28:31

specific item for the last 17 minutes

28:33

but the person comes up to you

28:36

and they say say they say this

28:38

to me all the time sir can

28:40

we help you and automatically what do

28:42

most people say no I'm good I'm

28:44

just looking even though you've been wandering

28:47

around for the last 23 minutes and

28:49

to tie it back to these powerful

28:51

questions that we need to use during

28:53

our sales calls especially the DIY and

28:55

how you mention echoing these questions or

28:57

these answers to them like, so can

29:00

you do it? Can you do this

29:02

yourself? Yeah, yeah, I can definitely do

29:04

this for myself. And then you kind

29:06

of echoing how you mention. So yeah,

29:08

so you can really do this yourself

29:10

and kind of makes people think and

29:13

go from thinking fast to thinking about

29:15

it a bit slower and we're kind

29:17

of overcoming that automatic response that people

29:19

have. And then they maybe think about

29:21

it and say, you know what? I

29:24

don't know if I could do this

29:26

myself so that kind of reminded me

29:28

of that briefly so I thought that

29:30

was incredibly interesting and I would love

29:32

to see that that link to their

29:34

YouTube channel that today YouTube video about

29:37

that experiment because that was really creepy.

29:39

Do Liam, you're basically the host of

29:41

this show I'm just kind of answering

29:43

the question, I'll answer some of the

29:45

questions, so do you drop me message

29:48

on slack? We're kind of pulling the

29:50

the third wall, the third curtain, however

29:52

to describe it. back here but yeah

29:54

message beyond slack and it'll go in

29:56

there in the show notes because otherwise

29:58

I'll forget because I will as I

30:01

said go off to baby cost in

30:03

in 40 minutes and be changing nappies

30:05

and not be thinking about left and

30:07

right atmospheres. Absolutely. Well, I wanted to

30:09

run something by you. So I came

30:12

across this. So there's a little bit

30:14

of some. So Google, I think I

30:16

brought this up to you the other

30:18

day. We touched on it really briefly,

30:20

but I kind of wanted to run

30:22

this by you on the show, and

30:25

I think it's going to be helpful

30:27

to everybody, especially everybody listening at home.

30:29

And I think this is particular. It

30:31

says a lot about the new buyer's

30:33

journey, right. Right. A little bit of

30:36

research from Google here. It says that,

30:38

so they did, obviously, Google has massive

30:40

amounts of data. So they crunched a

30:42

lot of their data and they came

30:44

up with the 7-Eleven-4 rule. So they

30:46

say here, in the buying journey, comes

30:49

from Google's research on consumer decision making

30:51

and digital marketing. It was first introduced

30:53

as Google's zero moment of truth, blah,

30:55

blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. But the

30:57

7-114 rule is this. It says that

30:59

in order for a consumer to make

31:02

a purchasing decision, it takes seven interactions

31:04

with a brand, right? Sorry, they need

31:06

to spend seven hours consuming content from

31:08

a brand, and they need to interact

31:10

with that brand 11 times, and they

31:13

need to do it across four different

31:15

platforms before they can make a decision.

31:17

And I think that says a lot

31:19

about the new buyer's journey, the modern.

31:21

buyer's journey and how you know sales

31:23

is slowly becoming more of kind of

31:26

the last step in the buyer's journey

31:28

to make a final purchasing decision. What

31:30

are your thoughts on this data? I

31:32

thought it was very interesting specifically because

31:34

it's coming from Google and didn't you

31:37

know that says legit as it gets.

31:39

What do you think of this 70

31:41

level four rule? It's interesting. You're going

31:43

to be slightly careful in the way

31:45

this is framed right of right? That's

31:47

the average amount of time interactions impressions

31:50

impressions. for the average purchase. Right right

31:52

right. So in the best example a

31:54

guy came around the house the other

31:56

day and the UK would call them

31:58

sugars, charity muggers and he did the

32:01

salesperson like that represents a charity. It's

32:03

not affiliated with the charity anymore than

32:05

that. But the charity was something that

32:07

I have an interest in and I

32:09

don't even mention this on the podcast

32:11

before but sales.com gives a percentage of

32:14

its profit to charity. So don't talk

32:16

about it. I'm not trying to plug

32:18

it right now. But that's the context

32:20

of this conversation of he was like,

32:22

well, okay, do you want to get

32:24

signed up? I was like, I think

32:27

we can potentially work together on something,

32:29

but it won't be me, it'll be

32:31

the business, and so I can't give

32:33

you my card. And obviously he just

32:35

wants to make a commission, right? He

32:38

gets commissioner on everyone, I get signed

32:40

up. So we took me in my

32:42

address, and they never got back to

32:44

me, so I'll reach myself to work.

32:46

But it was an interesting charity to

32:48

help. charity to help homeless people to

32:51

help homeless people to help homeless people

32:53

get back on the people get back

32:55

on the people get back on the

32:57

people get back on their back on

32:59

their back on their feet. It was

33:02

just a novel approach which I was

33:04

like, that's interesting, it's important, and so

33:06

essentially want to be involved. So with

33:08

that said, I'd never heard this charity

33:10

before. This was the first interaction I

33:12

have with the person. They are probably,

33:15

if we do some due diligence on

33:17

the charity, they're likely to get thousands

33:19

and thousands of dollars offers over the

33:21

next 12 months or so. And so

33:23

in which case, the rules of engagement

33:26

of getting a deal of the line

33:28

that... Google outlined completely completely completely broken.

33:30

So if we're talking about complex B2B

33:32

sales, it could be 50 meetings, it

33:34

could be 100 hours, it could be

33:36

whatever it is. So again, back to

33:39

your question a second, but I just

33:41

thought it was important to frame up

33:43

with the context of the context. That's

33:45

an average. But yes, absolutely. I won't

33:47

name him. Chap got signed up to

33:49

you, you know who, you might know

33:52

what I'm talking about as we go

33:54

through this. He's been on the group

33:56

coaching calls recently and he is a

33:58

legend and he is full of passion

34:00

and he's full of energy and he,

34:03

his boss, he was telling me on

34:05

the call before, he booked a call

34:07

with me and then no showed. Then

34:09

he booked another call with me, showed

34:11

up, and he was kind of excited

34:13

to work with me, but then the

34:16

deal didn't happen. And I totally forgot

34:18

about it. And then he was telling

34:20

me before three months later, he booked

34:22

a call for weeks ago and got

34:24

his team signed up, and he's very

34:27

excited. And in the background, he's been

34:29

watching all our content, trying to implement

34:31

it. And the reason you didn't get

34:33

signed up in the first place is

34:35

that the salespersoning hide wasn't a good

34:37

fit. So he wanted to hire another

34:40

salesperson and he wanted to have that

34:42

individual in place before the engaged with

34:44

us. But there's been masses of impressions

34:46

of just my face, your face, the

34:48

content, the kind of the theory, the

34:51

kind of the frameworks that we provide,

34:53

going on behind the scenes that I

34:55

didn't even know what happened. I didn't

34:57

even know what happened. And so it's

34:59

the easiest sale of all time. And

35:01

that's what the Google Research is encouraging

35:04

us to do. It is to have

35:06

multiple touch points across multiple platforms so

35:08

that we can surround our potential customers

35:10

so that we've, and again, with good

35:12

intentions as opposed to just trying to

35:14

bully them into speaking with us, where

35:17

good intentions are trying to help them,

35:19

educate them, inform them, share insights that

35:21

we have that are competitors that don't,

35:23

so that we appear at. kind of

35:25

peer subjectively but hopefully are the experts

35:28

in the space and so that when

35:30

they do want to have a conversation

35:32

and perhaps commit one way or another

35:34

to work with us they want to

35:36

find out a few more things that

35:38

they can only get from call call

35:41

with us and it might be five

35:43

calls because there might be ten people

35:45

that are involved obviously but at that

35:47

point they're so far down the buyer's

35:49

journey and you've done you've created the

35:52

content once you have built that webinar

35:54

or you've been publishing on LinkedIn LinkedIn

35:56

or you've done your cold outreach and

35:58

scaled it over time. you know, maybe

36:00

that person's had four emails from you,

36:02

they've seen 27 of your LinkedIn posts,

36:05

they listen to a podcast that you're

36:07

featured on because you're an expert in

36:09

your field, and where you're trying to

36:12

build, at least build the credibility that

36:14

you're an expert in your field, all of

36:16

that allows the buyer to make a much

36:18

quicker and easier decision further down

36:20

the sales process. And this is happening

36:22

where we like it or not. This, this,

36:24

this, this, this can't be counteracted, to do

36:26

their own research. whether you give them

36:29

all of the information they need, they're

36:31

still going to go and look at other

36:33

sources. And so if you can position

36:35

yourself that you are in all those places

36:37

that they're looking, you've got

36:40

an incredible competitive advantage versus

36:42

everyone else. So I read

36:44

that Google research paper, well I

36:46

read the abstract and the conclusion,

36:49

and the main thing I took it

36:51

from is impressions. My face and that

36:53

salesman logo, right? The red circle, the

36:55

white S in it, just needs to be...

36:57

chuffing plastered all over every platform

36:59

that we can find. I know,

37:01

hopefully it's associated and tied

37:04

with valuable insights or free training or,

37:06

you know, to build that goodwill

37:08

and that trust in that

37:10

reputation that we can deliver on

37:12

our promises. But probably 80% of

37:14

it is just, are you the most recognizable

37:16

brand? You're at least going

37:18

to be in the conversation in the

37:21

runics for the deal, right? And

37:23

your background with Salesforce, I'm sure

37:25

is the same with... with you as well.

37:27

You were probably going up against

37:29

other competitors and saying, oh, we've got

37:32

to speak to sales force. You might

37:34

have been their marketing was terrible, it

37:36

probably was, it was probably really good,

37:38

but it could have been that their

37:40

marketing was terrible, but its sales force.

37:42

So we've got to speak to them. And

37:45

so I'm sure you, I'm assuming this, but

37:47

I'm assuming you leverage a lot of that

37:49

and the brand recognition to kind of get

37:51

deals over the line and book those initial

37:53

means as well, right. Going back to

37:55

what you said earlier about, when you're

37:58

having this impression, you're essentially

38:00

what you're doing. The reason why people

38:02

are watching in the first place is

38:05

because you're providing value. You're solving specific

38:07

problems that they are having, so they're

38:09

consuming your content because you're providing them

38:11

and you're helping them solve specific problems.

38:14

Going back to that example of the

38:16

student example that you mentioned earlier about

38:18

how maybe in the past he was

38:20

not ready to make a decision. But

38:23

he continued watching the content. Now why

38:25

did he continue watching the content? Because

38:27

he was offering value to him. And

38:29

then that value eventually helped him make

38:32

that decision to rebook the call and

38:34

move forward. So yeah, I thought that

38:36

that statistic was really interesting. Wanted to

38:39

run it by you. But yeah, thank

38:41

you so much for kind of expanding

38:43

on that. Take us through that. Next

38:45

question here. Well, we'll have to wrap

38:48

up up with early. I'm conscious of

38:50

time, mate. Okay, no, no, we'll wrap

38:52

up with that. Whenever the question is

38:54

that we're wrapping up now, we'll start

38:57

with next week. But with that, Liam,

38:59

I appreciate you mixing up the format.

39:01

It's supposed to be Q&A show. Now

39:03

you're just poking me with curiosity and

39:06

see how I feel. Because some of

39:08

this is obviously subjective, some of it's

39:10

objective. Yeah, yeah. But I appreciate the

39:12

also mate. That's awesome. No, I just,

39:15

I genuinely thought that was super interesting

39:17

and was super interesting and obviously super

39:19

relevant to sales, the sales process in

39:21

the buyers journey. So no, I thought

39:24

we definitely had to cover it in

39:26

some ways somehow. Nice. More of that

39:28

moving forward. I think that's cool. So

39:30

with that, mates, I appreciate you. Appreciate

39:33

you listening to this episode. And I

39:35

will speak of you again on next

39:37

week's episode of the settlement podcast Q&A.

39:39

And we probably need a better title

39:42

for this as well. Probably. Yeah, we'll,

39:44

we'll, we'll, we'll mix it. We'll find

39:46

something. Then listen closely. After interviewing her

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