4:00

and boxes you have to check or whatever before you go.

4:02

And obviously you would do the same thing as well. But

4:04

so obviously almost everyone who's going away for a length of

4:06

time has to do so much work before they leave. And

4:08

then the fact that the microphones weren't

4:11

working, the iPad recording apps weren't working, nothing

4:13

was working. And I just felt like, why

4:16

are you doing this? Why are you setting yourself for

4:18

misery and failure? You're one, and I

4:20

had to really have a talk with

4:22

myself. I was like a frequent workaholic,

4:24

and someone always has to turn their hobbies into

4:26

projects and their friends into colleagues. But

4:31

I was looking at myself and being like, what the fuck are you doing?

4:33

What's wrong with you? Why can't you just go and hold it with your

4:35

friend and not turn it

4:37

into a project and also no one's gonna wanna hear.

4:39

And I had this whole moment, I text you, and

4:42

I was like, I don't think we should do this

4:44

anymore. And you were like, I beg, reconsider. And

4:46

then I sent it to my assistant Meg, who

4:48

has been helping us all the way through, and who we send the

4:51

files to every Tuesday night. And then she edited them

4:53

and then she put them up and we couldn't have

4:55

done it without her. And

4:57

she came over to my house and

5:00

Meg, little Meg, she

5:03

is 26 years old, but

5:05

somehow, despite this age difference, she is my

5:07

dad. I believe you

5:09

told me she spent five hours sitting at

5:11

your kitchen table, calling up

5:13

various random things to make the

5:15

iPad mics work. Looking

5:18

at YouTube tutorials. Like dealing with

5:20

the men with all the lowercase

5:22

little names on forums. Oh

5:24

my gosh. She

5:26

was really deep in the sound engineer community that

5:28

day. She really was. And

5:30

I think Meg is basically the midwife of

5:32

this podcast. She would not have happened. It

5:36

would not have happened without Meg. And

5:38

like, I just, she's gonna be

5:40

listening to this right now and editing in

5:42

her home in Clapham. And, Doc's

5:45

in Meg. And our

5:48

final docs of the podcast, it's Meg.

5:50

It is Meg. Meg, we appreciate you so much.

5:52

We appreciate you and we love you. Because it

5:55

was so fun. Yeah, and you enabled that fun.

5:57

You did, you did. It's like, it's like

5:59

a. I would switch off the I've experienced 26

6:01

year olds living in London to have a shit

6:03

summer so I could have a good one. Yeah.

6:10

I was trying to put a little bit on it and I was like,

6:12

yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, I guess I did. I was like, if

6:15

you've only run from one, you did. That's what it is. But she

6:17

does, you know who also deserves some thanks? Who? The

6:19

host of our live final episode, which is

6:22

obviously not this. Yes, obviously we're not in

6:24

a bookshop. Yeah, we should have pointed a

6:26

lead with that. We thought

6:28

about it and it needs, you know. Yeah, so why

6:30

don't, okay, we just talked through Meg and My Insecurities.

6:32

Why don't you talk through our event

6:35

at Salted Books on Thursday. We had. Now

6:38

it's Saturday. It's Saturday. We arrived in Lisbon,

6:40

which is where we are. It's very exciting.

6:42

And we did an amazing

6:44

live event at Salted Books. If you're ever in

6:46

Lisbon and you want a book, or even

6:48

if you don't, but you just like to look at books and

6:51

nice spaces, you've got to go to Salted Books because

6:54

Alex hosted us there with an intimate gathering of

6:56

like 40 or 50 people. And

6:59

we just had the funnest time talking about all the things.

7:01

We were a 10 in the head, a 10 in the

7:03

heart, a 10 in the event. We were. It was a

7:05

10 of an event. It was such

7:07

a 10 of an event. And

7:10

everyone there was a 10. And it was also

7:12

like, you know, as I'm sure many people on this podcast

7:14

are friends of Sex and City, it was

7:16

a season six, we make a party for you in the bookshop.

7:18

It was, we make a party for you in the bookshop and it was a

7:20

party in the bookshop and we were there for such

7:23

a long time and then we got so much wine

7:25

afterwards. It was

7:27

so fucking cool. It was just, I

7:29

just had the noise. I could just sat there talking shit

7:31

for hours. Yeah. I think at one

7:33

point Alex was like five minutes and we were like,

7:35

no. No, absolutely. You can't make a stop now, the

7:37

yapping has been released. We know

7:39

everyone wants to go home, but we're having too good a time. Yeah,

7:42

and like, it's so funny, because

7:44

it's like a small un-air conditioned

7:46

bookshop. It's so hot. It was so red. I was

7:48

the reddest woman to ever live. It

7:50

was quality of feeling like a Baptist church

7:52

or something where people were just fanning themselves

7:55

with like books that they had bought and

7:57

just like us saying completely like. three

16:00

weeks and then for the subsequent three months the

16:02

number of times he would just come home from

16:04

work and I'd be like hey Gavin. Yeah he's

16:06

well used to that. That's fine. You

16:09

know still. Yeah

16:12

it's just it's great. It's just

16:14

really nice like I just I

16:16

just feel really lucky to have to

16:19

have that. I've had a sudden flashback to you

16:21

somewhere around the I don't even know want to know

16:23

what number bottle of wine after the event me

16:26

and Becky being like but how do you do it? How do

16:29

you find a good man? I don't know.

16:31

And we just yeah that was about like

16:33

two in the morning in that cocktail bar

16:35

you guys were like how are you guys

16:37

doing it? And then we tried to like

16:39

drag up some like we just we started

16:42

like 70s self-help books. You have to accept

16:44

one another as flaws. Yeah it was I

16:46

don't remember anything. I remember the spirit of

16:48

it was he kept trying to like like

16:50

muscle together some kind of self-help book thing

16:52

at some point. I don't know you have

16:54

to accept being like I'm just very lucky.

16:56

I'm just a very lucky girl. I am

17:00

just a very lucky girl. He definitely deserves

17:02

thanks. Thanks Gav. Thanks Gav for being chill

17:04

and cool. He is very chill and cool.

17:07

We've done Meg, we've done Arx, we've done

17:09

Gav. We've done each other. This is a

17:11

great orgy. Gav doing a lot of happy

17:13

lifting but I think he's up to it.

17:18

The only person who's missing is Sylvie.

17:20

And does she deserve thanks? She does

17:23

not deserve thanks. She deserves to be

17:25

put down. Oh my god.

17:28

I did have this like thought of that you could

17:30

one day put like patch together a bloopers reel of

17:32

just all of the moments for

17:35

the past 18 episodes where Sylvie's made chimp noises all

17:37

done apart so obnoxious. And we've had to stop recording.

17:39

Yes so far so bad. Because you can like chew

17:41

on it and just be like oh god.

17:45

The gagging and the whining. It's

17:47

so weird because like we will

17:49

like and record you'll typically have

17:51

an evening you'll come to my

17:53

house she'll go crazy. Which

17:55

I love by the way. We'll record the

17:57

post. She'll

18:00

sit next to us and scream. And then we will put on

18:03

a movie and she will curl up like

18:05

the Firefox logo next to us for three

18:07

hours, not peep. And then we will start

18:10

the microphones here and she will start

18:12

screaming. It's just such an amazing noise.

18:14

I feel like people have got to know her very well probably

18:16

through this season in a way they might not before. Why

18:23

does she make such odd noises? I don't know. She wants to

18:25

be like Mother. She does. She wants

18:28

to be a broadcaster fan. She really does.

18:30

And that's what it is. So obviously this

18:32

has been the summer of continental garbage in

18:34

my heart. But for many other

18:36

people it has been the summer of brat.

18:39

Yeah. OK. So we're now in our summer

18:41

in review. We're in our summer in review,

18:43

which is what we probably should be doing

18:45

because that's what we said we're going to

18:47

do on the title. I can't tell still

18:50

whether this feels like a

18:52

historically important summer for vibes

18:55

or whether I just felt a great vibe. I

18:58

think it's been a historically important summer for vibes.

19:00

And I'm basing that entirely off being on Instagram

19:03

and people doing summer roundups. But they've got a

19:05

real kind of Mona Lisa smile energy to

19:07

them. Yeah. Like

19:10

this was the year when everything changed. Yeah.

19:12

Where everything went back to normal

19:15

but also like we

19:17

have an appreciation for how bad things were. We

19:20

really do. With far enough away that we're no

19:22

longer traumatized by it. Exactly. In 2018 we didn't

19:24

know how good we had it. And also we

19:27

were younger then and like you never youth wished

19:29

on the young accessory. Yeah. And

19:32

then that span of years happened. Awful

19:34

times. And then yeah. And now

19:36

we're out. As I keep

19:39

saying and I really believe this on a

19:41

vibe level we're finally back to full health.

19:43

We are. I think I said this

19:45

the other night at the event but a friend who

19:47

we used to work at a bath sanctuary and

19:49

he once told me that the way that

19:52

you measure the air quality of any given

19:54

area is by counting the number of bats

19:56

who live there because bats only live in

19:58

very clean air. And I

20:00

do think the health of any summer can be judged

20:03

by the amount of bops in the air. And

20:06

this was the summer of bops. This was not

20:08

the summer of television. This was not the summer

20:10

of Barbenheimer of going to the fucking cinema. No.

20:13

Like, this is how much our health bar has changed between 2023

20:15

and 2024. The

20:17

best thing about 2023 summer was going

20:19

to the cinema. Lame. Now

20:22

I love the cinema, but that's a fall activity.

20:24

That is, that's a winter sport. That's a winter sport.

20:26

Yes, not a summer sport. And the fact that, you

20:29

know, we thought that

20:31

that was what having a good time was, going to

20:33

the cinema with some chicks. With our friends wearing pink.

20:36

God, we were so naive. We

20:39

were so naive. But it's almost like after

20:41

COVID, we were born again. And

20:44

Barbie was us as babies. It was

20:47

us toddling out. And now, Brat Summer,

20:49

which this has been, that

20:51

is the summer of being teenagers, but you're in

20:53

your 30s. It's been

20:55

wonderful. It's been so good. Some people are

20:57

shagging and kissing. The bops everywhere. Yeah, yeah,

20:59

yeah, yeah. What's been your bop of the

21:02

summer? Oh God. Hard

21:05

to decide. Yeah, I mean, there's been a

21:07

lot floating around. Tell me yours first. Okay,

21:09

well, they're all extremely obvious. So

21:14

me and Gav have been walking around

21:16

Portugal all day, just speaking the

21:18

words to 365 by Charlie. Oh,

21:21

phenomenal, yeah. Just, so, I'm

21:23

on my own way, and I made it, I'm

21:25

your favourite reference baby. Just

21:27

like every single place we go, it's just, we're

21:29

just under our breath and that kind of unconsciously.

21:32

And it's just, it just feels so good

21:34

in my bones. And also

21:37

I wanna, I think like Pink

21:39

Pony Club. Pink Pony Club. It's

21:42

so important. That's a very

21:44

important tune. It's an important tune. I

21:46

mean, the idea, the whole thing with Chaperone in

21:48

general of like being an artist

21:50

who released an album in like middle of

21:52

2023, and now

21:55

suddenly out of nowhere, has five songs

21:57

in the billboard, top 10 charts. else

24:00

can because it takes over every sense. It's in

24:02

your brain. It's the most intimate experience you can

24:04

have with a piece of art because it is

24:06

a form of brainwashing. It is just like vivid

24:09

hallucinations. Vivid hallucinations. And there's nothing else that can

24:11

do that. And bops and music, what

24:13

it can do is like it strips

24:15

back all of the years and experience that you've had

24:17

your whole life. And if you hear something like Pinkpony

24:19

Club, whether you're 70 or 17, it's the same

24:23

thing of just exuberance and like just

24:26

being with your friends in the club. And

24:29

that feeling, that essential feeling has never changed.

24:32

Never have. No. But someone has

24:34

crystallized it and put it into

24:37

sing-song noises. Yeah. Yeah,

24:39

right. And that matters. Someone's been like, oh,

24:41

this kind of ineffable

24:44

thing. Yeah. I can turn that into three and

24:46

a half minutes of

24:48

danceable glory. Totally. And like,

24:51

do you remember that viral TED Talk from years and years

24:53

ago that, oh my God, I

24:55

can't believe I'm bringing you wrong, that

24:57

Elizabeth Gilbert is. Oh

25:01

my God, we've gone back to the stars. We've gone

25:03

back to the Gilbees. The Gilbees. Once,

25:05

Gilbees forever. Back to Gilbees. And she... I

25:07

didn't see this TED Talk. Well, I saw

25:09

it a lot. I bet you did. Because

25:11

I'm a Gilbee. You're a Gilbee to your

25:13

very core. But

25:16

she said this thing and her whole

25:18

TED Talk was about the idea of

25:20

creativity as being a thing,

25:22

a genius is a thing that visits

25:24

you and passes through you rather than

25:27

something that you have. And

25:29

her sort of creative process is I show up

25:31

and I do the mule-ish work and then genius

25:33

passes through me. Oh. Beautiful, right?

25:36

And the... And the... I had

25:38

a very different thought. Wait. No, I

25:40

don't think she means genius in the

25:42

capital G. I think she means like

25:44

the muse or whatever. Inspiration. I just

25:46

was immediately... It came to my mind.

25:48

The German word derschwahl came to my

25:50

mind, which is through-fall. That's how German

25:52

people say diarrhea. Something

25:57

passes through. I was just like... German

26:00

word for diarrhea, which is

26:02

so not beautiful. But

26:05

it's the problem with being, as I am, a renowned

26:07

polyglot. You need to get on

26:10

this novel, man. You are wasted in

26:12

advertising. That is like

26:14

a whole fucking Sally Rooney chapter just there.

26:16

But yeah, you're right. Beautiful Jen, where are

26:18

you? I

26:21

think it is a very beautiful metaphor if you

26:23

don't know the German word for diarrhea. Yeah. Is

26:25

it really on? So to carry on. And then

26:28

so she talked about like this thing, Spanish bullfighter

26:30

is saying, ole, which is obviously a, now

26:34

it's like a football chapter, ole, ole, ole. And

26:37

how that cut came from like Moorish

26:39

Spain being like a la. And that

26:41

to be like, everyone in

26:43

the stadium could see that like God

26:45

has briefly passed through this moment. That's

26:48

really cool. And like, isn't it?

26:50

I think about it all the time. And that's what a

26:52

barbit is. It's like, oh, God is passing through us for

26:54

a minute. And God is blessing the

26:56

pink pony club. Yes. That's how I feel

26:58

when I'm listening to Pink Pony Club in

27:00

a shower. Like, and Van Dutch. And

27:03

my personal favorite on the album, Guess. Guess.

27:09

I just really love that she just did a whole song about

27:12

knickers and oral sex.

27:15

I just think this is, it's a great encapsulation

27:17

of the moment. Yeah. Loved

27:20

it. And like that, like again,

27:22

the air quality is good. There

27:25

were no, like the things that have not been I

27:28

know there's this whole Oasis, whatever reunion going

27:30

on. Like I could not care less. Yeah.

27:32

I don't care. I know people listening to

27:34

people care. I don't care. Men in bands

27:36

has it. No. You know what

27:38

I mean? Like I was in the same room as

27:42

Mr. Mattahealing. Yes, you were. You were in the awards show where

27:44

he was at. I was in the awards show that he was

27:46

at. And he spoke

27:49

on stage and he was just so boring. He

27:52

was just like, no, get rid

27:54

of the men in bands. Go away.

27:57

Only the women, solo women

27:59

artists. I would also like some women in bands. Women

28:01

in bands too, but mainly I just was there, I was like,

28:04

oh, snoo, snoo, snoo. And then Shaka Khan came on and we

28:06

were like, woo! Brilliant. I

28:08

know, I think about this all the time, of

28:11

like, you know the whole, like

28:15

pop in the 2010s, like with Lady Gaga

28:17

and Beyonce, and those things get bigger and

28:20

bigger and bigger. And now I feel like

28:22

they've gotten bigger in a different direction. Like

28:24

the spectacle has gotten ever, ever

28:26

increasing, but also the cerebralness has increased

28:29

with it. It's so knowing.

28:31

It's so knowing. It's like both

28:34

like aesthetically extreme,

28:38

but also intellectually

28:40

satisfying. Like if you

28:42

listen to Apple by Charlie XCX, it's

28:44

like this beautiful generational trauma thing that's

28:46

also like this dance bop, like it's

28:50

insane. It's just very

28:52

good. And it's almost like, and this

28:54

is why I love an art war.

28:56

Like I love it when, you know,

28:59

Taylor drops an album and it's huge

29:01

or whatever. And Charlie makes sympathy as

29:03

like a knife, you know? Oh, yes.

29:05

Just to be like, just people who

29:07

are making art in response to

29:10

the ecosystem that they're in, which is like, everyone's

29:12

at the top of their game, so I keep

29:14

raising my game, you know? And it's, that's what

29:17

we're, we've got this amazing pop diva landscape now.

29:19

And like, I just keep thinking about Westlife. And

29:24

how, when Westlife on stage, because- Six cardboard

29:26

cutouts on little stools. I know. I didn't

29:28

know how many other were there, were there

29:30

six? I couldn't tell you, and I'm from

29:32

where they're from. Oh, no. You know, and

29:34

like, the, whenever,

29:36

when they wanted to signify something extreme happening

29:39

in the sun, all they could do was

29:41

stand up off the stool, you

29:43

know? Because like they live in such a

29:45

toxic sphere. Masculinity is so

29:47

fucking toxic that when you do anything a

29:50

bit out there, you're immediately like

29:52

branded as feminine or gay or whatever,

29:54

or wanting it too much, which is

29:56

seen as being too feminine. And

29:58

they have like- uncuffed themselves to

30:01

the fucking, like, they just handcuffed themselves. It's

30:03

very sad to be a man, anyway. It's

30:05

cringe and sad to be a man. But

30:07

particularly this summer. Yeah. Like, here we are

30:09

talking about the Barak summer, the glory of

30:11

the summer. Yeah, girls, the gays and the

30:13

gays were all having a great summer. But

30:16

the he's, the he meant they were not.

30:18

The he-hims? The he-hims. Not so

30:20

much. No. Ha ha ha ha ha ha

30:22

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. The thing

30:24

that we talked about in the event, which I think is definitely worth bringing back

30:26

up again, other than this

30:28

being the summer where men just call each other pedos.

30:32

We're referring to the Drake and Kendrick Lamar

30:34

beef. Right, a whole beef that you completely

30:36

passed me by because not there for the

30:39

he-hims. But, um, raw-dogging flights.

30:42

Like, that's the big news out of men this summer.

30:44

What if you just stared into the ether

30:46

for eight hours? Yeah, if there was a

30:48

male version of continental garbage, the things they

30:51

were talking about would be raw-dogging flights. Explain

30:54

to the listeners who don't know what raw-dogging flights

30:56

is. Well, first of all, just a moment for

30:58

one of the great semantic shifts of our age.

31:00

Raw-dogging, of course. Used to

31:02

mean something very different. Of course, um, conjuring

31:05

very vividly the idea of, of kind of

31:07

like a sausage with no bun. Like

31:11

a hot dog. But it's of course about like having

31:13

sex without a condom on. And now it just means

31:16

doing anything without media. Crazy.

31:18

Like just anything where you haven't got music in

31:20

your ears or something in your eyes. Yeah. So

31:23

men raw-dogging flights is this thing where men

31:25

have started, apparently. A very small number. A

31:27

very small number. A very weird number. But

31:29

listen, these kind of things escalate quickly. So

31:31

it's worth getting ahead of it. Oh,

31:33

I've already seen like broadsheet travel

31:36

magazines being like, we tried raw-dogging things to

31:38

see what it's like, you know. Just going

31:40

on a plane and not having a book

31:42

or a film or even music, because I

31:44

can, I can definitely get on a plane

31:46

and not like not have to read something.

31:48

Yeah. But it wasn't me in my

31:50

ears at least to block out just the sound of my own

31:52

thoughts. Yes, well that's obviously weak and they want to be about

31:55

that. Yeah. And what was Gavin's very, intellectual

31:58

and also hilarious take on this. Gavin

32:00

said is that men have heard

32:02

about mindfulness, because

32:04

a lot of these Jimmy Fitness-y influencers

32:07

guys or whatever, they do have

32:09

mindfulness in their thing because they

32:11

eventually run out of stuff to

32:13

post about. You can't

32:15

post about protein and lifting every single day. You

32:17

have to mix it up. So they'll do mindfulness

32:19

stuff or whatever. And he was like, and obviously,

32:22

mindfulness is sort of like habit stacking and

32:24

maybe learning how to journal and learning how to

32:26

meditate, maybe getting a little app that helps you

32:28

do that, and retaking time for yourself. He's like,

32:30

but men have to do the most extreme version

32:32

of that. So what they're doing is they're dumping

32:34

all their mindfulness into eight hours twice

32:36

a year on a flight. And

32:39

that's them just like, oh, wow, I'm doing,

32:41

I'm taking off all my mindfulness. It's

32:45

just embarrassing. It's really embarrassing. Do you know what it

32:47

puts me in mind of? What? And

32:50

as I said this, I'm like, this is a very specific reference

32:52

that you're probably going to ever tell. Try me. Are

32:55

you familiar with Anglo-Saxon poetry? No,

32:58

but at least go on. There's a

33:00

poem. It's like sort of from about

33:02

the ninth century. And it's called

33:04

The Dream of the Rude. And it's

33:06

about Jesus being crucified. And it's at

33:09

a time in British history where we

33:11

were moving from like a warrior culture

33:13

to like Christianity appearing.

33:17

And so the way that this poem is written

33:19

to try and make Jesus, who was like a

33:21

very like meek, suffering lamb of a man. Right.

33:23

Is written like Jesus got up there and he

33:26

fucking showed that cross. It's really kind of like

33:28

a horny like he's like. It's like propaganda for

33:30

Jesus. It's like propaganda for Jesus, but to make

33:32

it appeal to the warrior man. That's fascinating. They

33:34

had to be a bit like, and he just

33:36

hugs that cross. Yeah. And he's like hammer me

33:39

on. He's like basically fucking the cross. Sorry, that's

33:41

probably saccharitis. Oh my God. That's hilarious. It's a

33:43

hilarious poem if you read it. Why

33:46

would you? That's kind of glimpse into your other

33:48

life as a lecturer. Like there's such a trouser

33:50

like of time where you just stayed on at

33:52

university and did lectures that sounded like this.

33:54

Just chat about stuff. But honestly it's that,

33:56

it's like that was 1200 years. I

38:00

guess. But I think it's everyone's

38:02

doing it. I honestly think part of it is

38:04

that reading is just a good outdoors activity. It

38:06

is a good, yeah, there's no shine on the

38:09

screen. Like there's no shine on the screen. Battery

38:11

doesn't go dead. And as I say, it does

38:13

look good. Like if you're in a cafe reading

38:15

a book, that's like, oh, sexy, interesting. Yeah, yeah,

38:17

yeah. And that works in a way that it

38:19

doesn't. I also do think this

38:21

has been the summer of horny books. If

38:24

you go outside of the kind of the

38:26

sort of literary London girlies, which I know

38:28

is very much, you know, a

38:30

bubble that we both are familiar with, but like

38:32

just generally this has been the year of like

38:34

horny fantasy. Yeah. I mean, so Sarah J. Masses

38:37

has obviously been around for a few years. So

38:39

long that in fact, my very first appearance in

38:41

your podcast six years ago was a talk about

38:43

a court of thorns from roses when it was

38:45

still this notty, it was not a thing at

38:47

the level that it is now. Yeah. But that

38:49

has completely blown up this summer. So many, I've

38:52

read so many articles and things about like people

38:54

getting really into romanticy and just

38:58

absolute just horn dogs. It's so funny

39:00

when you, because there's so many, you

39:02

really catch women reading a court

39:05

of thorns and roses in public. And like when you read it

39:07

as well, you're like, hi,

39:10

I was on like a, like a very long,

39:12

I think it was when I was in, when I was in

39:14

California and March, I remember going to the front of the plane

39:16

to use the bathroom and I was waiting, you know, there in

39:18

the little kitchen area where you're kind of not supposed to be,

39:20

but there's also no choice but to be there. You gotta be

39:22

there. You gotta be there. With your snacks and your full bladder.

39:24

Exactly. With your snacks and your full bladder. And

39:27

there was just, the artist was just sitting down on

39:29

the little jump seat. We're just reading the final

39:32

one. And she was like a third from

39:34

the end. And I was like, I

39:36

know everything. You have put

39:39

in your little head, you dirty bitch.

39:41

And you are the person who's giving

39:43

me little drinks and pretending to be

39:45

professional, but I know you're not professional

39:47

because you're reading this. I know that

39:49

you know that you could just

39:51

lean and whisper a word to her and be like, I

39:53

know. I would say that

39:55

I just put a hand on her shoulder and go, has

39:57

the amazing bond to strap in your face. And

39:59

then get a scorched. I

50:03

mean obviously if any bar went off in London,

50:05

I was like, but specifically because of the people

50:07

in this character. Yeah, it would

50:09

be an added level of cultural resonance to it.

50:11

Yeah, but so you made this group and

50:14

you promised when you made it you were like, this will not be one of

50:16

those groups that persists. It would just be

50:18

a one and done, but actually it's persisted. Only

50:20

every now and then. Every now and then,

50:22

but generally when somebody wants to consult, not because

50:25

everyone's like, I'm going to do this and like

50:27

treasured moments. It's more like, hey everyone, this is

50:29

a group of smart people, please an opinion. And

50:31

then the opinions come thick and fast. And

50:34

so I woke up on the morning of our event

50:36

to I think like 150 messages. The

50:39

detailed and exciting dissection of

50:41

Summer of Bobs, which honestly I think we could just

50:44

have done a live reading of that message. A dramatic

50:46

reading. Yeah, it was so good. And it would have

50:48

been so good. But another thing that was mentioned was

50:50

Gin Nast's by lovely Tessa Coates. So Tessa Coates, who

50:52

I think we've mentioned quite a few times on the

50:55

podcast now. We love Tessa Coates. We love Tessa Coates,

50:57

who did the Bring It On episode. And because she

50:59

is a retired cheerleader, she also has a keen interest

51:01

in gymnasts and that as a sport. And

51:04

what she said was, I'm not going

51:06

to scroll back and find it, but

51:08

essentially that like for the longest time,

51:10

the industry standard for gymnasts was sort

51:12

of teenagers, generally Russian or... Yeah,

51:15

16 years old, retiring at 17. Yeah,

51:17

exactly. And they were

51:20

not characters really. And

51:22

they were just sort of like, they kind of came through and they would do

51:24

it in Olympics and they would be gone again kind of thing. And

51:27

this sort of with Simone Biles and

51:29

her entire cohort, this is such an

51:31

exciting time for the sport just because

51:33

like, I think she said like almost

51:35

every person on that mat is responsible

51:37

for putting someone in prison. Like

51:40

they have like all their trainers who like,

51:42

yeah, we're just awful, awful men. Yeah,

51:44

a very empowering moment. And they're just

51:46

all very strong and unashamedly strong. It's

51:48

not like, oh, look at me, I'm

51:51

a tiny little sort of like, little

51:53

14 year old teenager. They're

51:55

grown women in their 30s who can

51:57

do incredible things. I

52:01

can't even imagine looking at a gymnast routine and being like,

52:03

ah, probably. And you invented

52:05

some of those moves, I don't know. It's fascinating,

52:07

because I keep thinking about how, and

52:10

again, it goes back to our earlier conversation

52:12

about how when an

52:14

ecosystem is really healthy and when

52:17

people keep on trying, I do their peers. And

52:20

when the competition is really healthy,

52:22

how much elevated something becomes. And

52:24

if you look back at boxers

52:26

in the 1920s, so

52:28

I was like, this is Jack O'Leary, and

52:30

he's the featherweight. And you look at him,

52:32

you're like, I could fucking take Jack O'Leary.

52:36

And then you look at boxers today, and they're

52:38

just massive. And it's like a similar thing, feels

52:40

like it's happening in female sport, even though I

52:42

really don't follow it. So I can't really comment

52:44

in detail. I'm just sort of on a, I'm

52:46

standing back from the whole painting here. It

52:49

feels like for the really, really long

52:52

time, women were really asked to not

52:54

just perform their sport, but perform their

52:56

gender through their sport. And

52:59

so much of that was in ice skating and

53:02

all that kind of stuff. And

53:04

now it's like that is being pushed to one side.

53:07

It's like, they just get to be fucking

53:09

huge and hench and swell, and that's powerful

53:12

and cool. And other

53:14

women love them, and the culture loves them, and

53:16

it's amazing. It's been a great

53:18

summer. I mean, yeah, it's been

53:20

a great summer. Like obviously, the

53:22

world is falling apart, but if we can just measure

53:24

time in the space of the summers of you and

53:26

the friends and the people that you love. It's a

53:29

great summer for vibes. It's a great summer for vibes,

53:31

you know? And sometimes it's purely

53:33

responsible saying that because- Yes, because there

53:35

are many terrible things happening in the world. There are many terrible

53:37

things. And I know I don't talk about them on this podcast

53:39

because I- This is

53:41

not the podcast for political commentary. Exactly,

53:44

and I also trust that like, all

53:47

my listeners are conscientious women in

53:50

their sort of 20s to 40s

53:52

or whatever, who are smart, engaged,

53:54

donating, doing the things, and they

53:57

just need just but

53:59

one space. but one little space where

54:01

they can just be silly by Blake

54:03

Lively. Right? You know? And that's what

54:06

this summer has been. Yeah. A

54:09

little space carved out in a world that's

54:11

otherwise rapidly going to shit. Yeah. And

54:14

some vops, some vibes. It's okay to

54:16

acknowledge I've had a lovely time. It

54:18

is. I've had a lovely time too.

54:20

Yeah. Oh, lovely.

54:23

Lovely. I feel very

54:26

sad that we're ending this, but also I feel like,

54:29

as we always say, leave when you're still having fun.

54:31

Yeah. Yeah. And

54:33

also this will be- Leave out high. I'll probably

54:35

come back and talk about some stuff at some point in future. Oh

54:37

my God. When we did the signing on

54:39

Thursday night, the amount that

54:41

people just kept coming up being like, Jen, you have

54:43

to stay. You have to

54:45

stay, Jen. And I was like, I don't really mind

54:47

as any of it. It was like you were- I

54:50

thought you were- I endorsed this book on several of

54:52

your books. It was so exciting. It was so nice.

54:54

It was so nice. And

54:56

of course, I mean, I fully

54:58

predict there's going to be more mini-series

55:00

with you in them and we'll go

55:03

to different places. Somebody invited us to

55:05

Charleston. It is. I

55:08

was like, yeah, I'd go do Charleston. And I

55:10

was like, literally, if you can cover the flights,

55:12

we'll be there. If you have a literary festival

55:14

that does live podcasts, we'll do it. We'll

55:17

do anything. I don't have a baby yet, so. Take

55:21

us. We'll fly. We'll go.

55:23

Once again, if you are a country- If

55:25

you're a country or a place or- And

55:27

if you can even minorly financially incentivise me

55:30

and Jen coming, we'll do a mini-series

55:32

about your country. We will do that. We'll be so

55:34

nice about your country. We'll do that. Wherever it is.

55:36

And now Gav's coming back, I think. I can hear

55:38

him at the door. Gav's coming back. Which means it's

55:40

time for dinner. It means it's time for dinner. Oh

55:42

my God, can we finish this with Gav coming on

55:44

the mic? Yes, Gav, get in here. Gav, can you-

55:46

We're literally just finishing up. Do you want to come

55:48

in and say something? We've thanked you already for being

55:50

so cool about us travelling. Oh, really being part of

55:52

the spot here. I know you really are. Okay, so

55:54

if you describe the physical surroundings that we're currently in,

55:56

you're looking lovely in a lovely green dress. Jen is

55:58

sitting here with her legs crossed, looking gorgeous. because I

56:00

feel like a slug. But I

56:03

think I'm glad to have you back home

56:05

after a season away on the continent. And

56:08

now we're gonna go out and eat fish and

56:11

get pissed. Can

56:13

I ask you what your heart of the summer was that was such

56:16

a bad summer for men? Oh

56:18

my God. I'm so sorry. No one prepares

56:20

you for this. I mean,

56:22

on a really like selfish level, it's

56:25

been the best summer of my life,

56:27

I think. Can you speak more? And...

56:31

Even though you're men? Even though you're men. It's

56:34

been great. For me, for me this summer,

56:36

I feel like it's been like a culmination of like,

56:38

when you get to your mid to late thirties, it's

56:40

like a lot of the work and the time that

56:43

you've put into your friendships and all

56:45

of the years that could go one way or the other.

56:48

And I feel like all the seeds that I've thrown

56:50

out over the last 10 years have started to blossom over

56:52

the last sort of

56:54

few months. And it's happening

56:56

for you as well. And... Yeah.

57:00

And Jen as well, and everyone's happy. And I just feel like, you

57:02

know, what a great way to win the pot. We

57:07

kept wondering how we would end it. What would the last

57:09

thing we would say? But I think this is it. I'm

57:12

going out on a limb here. Is this all right? It's so

57:14

perfect. I love it. That was the summer

57:16

that was. Everyone,

57:18

that was Gav. That was Gav. I've been

57:20

Caroline. I've been Jen. Happy

57:23

summer, everyone. Happy summer. Happy autumn,

57:25

too. Happy autumn, too. Bye. Bye.

57:28

Bye. Bye. Bye.

57:30

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57:33

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