0:05

Their AI-powered quiz makes it so easy to

0:08

find a perfect match. Customized for

0:10

your unique skin tone, undertone, and

0:12

coverage needs. With 600,000 5-star reviews

0:14

and 50 shades of flawless natural

0:17

coverage, this foundation is going viral

0:19

for a reason. dot

0:31

com slash quiz. Hello

0:35

there. This is just a reminder that continental garbage

0:37

is ever so slightly different to sentimental garbage in

0:40

that it's sort of part postcard and part film

0:42

club. So if you want to sit down and

0:44

read the postcard, you can start listening from now.

0:46

But if you'd prefer to just skip to the

0:49

film discussion, you can look at the timestamp in

0:51

the episode notes and skip straight to there. Okay.

0:54

Enjoy. Hello

1:01

and welcome to Continental Garbage, the podcast where

1:04

we're not in Norway, but we'd like to

1:06

be. My name is Caroline, and personally, I

1:08

feel like I know everything about male problems.

1:10

Joining me is Jen County. Her butthole is

1:12

smooth this entire movie. So

1:15

I made Jen write the intro this

1:17

week because my luck with writing intros

1:19

for films I haven't seen has been

1:22

spotty, but you have seen this movie. I have

1:24

seen it once several years ago when

1:26

it first came out. And what I did is I

1:28

went on Google and Googled quotes from this film,

1:30

the worst person in the world. And

1:32

in doing so, I realized this film is maybe way

1:34

more depressing than I remember it being. Oh no. Oh

1:38

no. A fun caper for

1:40

us into Norwegian grief,

1:42

I think? I think it's

1:45

quite a big theme of this film. I

1:47

recall it being a movie that

1:49

was advertised to me

1:51

heavily on Instagram through the account

1:54

of Mubi. Oh yeah. Do you know Mubi?

1:56

I do know Mubi. I may have been to at least one of the

1:58

things where they give you a free cinema. screening. Sure

2:01

I think they're they're one of the most

2:03

aspirational millennial brands I think. They're very expensive

2:05

for what they are. Yeah it's like every

2:08

week we will give you seven movies for

2:10

25 pounds. Yes and you can see one

2:12

one one movie in the cinema but it'll

2:15

be the movie that we choose and will

2:17

you want to see it? Probably not. Which

2:19

I understand I get the thinking

2:21

which is like people want to have like

2:24

a deeper relationship to cinema and they're like

2:26

okay they're they're doing special directors in foreign

2:28

language films and like I do admire the

2:30

thing of like let's get away from like

2:32

the myth-flexization of like too many options and

2:34

all of them suck. Let's do a curation

2:36

of speed but I just think it is

2:38

such an aspirational way to think about human

2:40

behavior as your brand and they must have

2:42

some billionaire seed capital funding. They've got to.

2:45

Because it just does not line up with

2:47

how people behave on mass. I yeah I

2:49

like I feel like I definitely know a

2:51

lot of like London literary media

2:53

people. Yeah. Very few of them are on

2:55

movie because they're like yeah I don't always

2:57

want to see the the that.

3:02

I also do feel there is a workaround for

3:04

movie which is not as good as it probably.

3:06

I used to deal with my friend Titus back

3:08

in the day. Yeah. And they called it Monday

3:10

Bunday Cinema Funday. Yeah it was lame. But it

3:12

already sounds more fun than movie. But it was

3:15

the fact that pretty much every cinema, certainly London

3:17

I imagine the whole country will give you really

3:19

really cheap tickets on a Monday because no one

3:21

goes to cinema on a Monday. So

3:23

we used to go every Monday to one

3:25

of the two cinemas in the area we lived

3:27

in because London. Yeah. And we'd go and get

3:29

like some like steamed buns like bowel buns for

3:32

like very cheap because also Monday offers and

3:35

then we'd go and see whatever was on

3:37

at the cinema. Now was it often like

3:40

life enhancing and mind expanding foreign

3:42

cinema films? No. Often

3:44

it was real shit but it was quite nice

3:46

because for £4 you'd just see whatever was on

3:48

at the local cinema. Yeah. And

3:51

that's nice. That's something. So listen

3:53

movie or Monday Bunday Cinema

3:55

Funday or it should be

3:57

Monday but it's got the same initials in

3:59

it actually. Oh

4:02

my god maybe that's where movie comes from.

4:04

It's Monday, Monday, it's on

4:06

a fun day. Well

4:08

we've cracked it and but I do find

4:10

that like going to cinema it's very in

4:13

October to January activity. It's a winter sport

4:15

for sure. It's a winter sport. Along with

4:17

playing the game

4:19

thing. I thought the name of it. Switch.

4:22

Playing the switch exactly. But isn't it

4:24

so strange though that like the not

4:27

to be sort of like gloomy and gothy

4:29

about it but like the deterioration and like

4:32

like in terms of like our

4:34

whole worlds are just like entertainment now

4:36

and content and things begging you to

4:38

look at them. That like going to

4:40

the cinema which used for hundreds of

4:42

years was like the leisure activity, the

4:44

distraction activity, the like guilt activity you

4:46

know of like oh sitting in the

4:48

in the cinema and rotting your brain

4:50

and now it's like the broccoli activity.

4:54

They have really I mean like it's

4:57

not even hundreds it's not even in like a particularly old

4:59

art form and they've made it. No it's yeah

5:01

it's like 120 years old. They've done to

5:03

cinema what they did as a poetry in

5:05

a much more slow space. Yeah I think

5:07

they've done to cinema what they've done to

5:09

air travel which is made it gradually shit

5:12

over. 100 years ago going to the cinema

5:14

the most aspirational thing you can do. A

5:16

collective experience. Amazing. Now sure. Sure.

5:18

I mean there were a few. Barbie was

5:20

one of them. Yeah. But they've

5:24

made it crap. How are they struggling? Even

5:26

even the nice cinemas that are struggling to

5:28

make it nice have made it crap. Yeah

5:31

well I don't think they made it crap. I just

5:33

think no one goes to them. Yeah. How have they

5:35

made it crap? I just don't need a Negronian

5:38

pulled pork at a cinema. Do you know what

5:40

I mean? Oh see I love a Negronian pulled

5:42

pork at a cinema. No I don't

5:44

need various other things but I

5:47

quite enjoy a fancy cinema. What

5:49

I like is. But I find it really unnerving when

5:51

you go and you're the only person there. Yeah. Or

5:54

worse I did one last year actually where I went

5:56

to see a film

5:59

I think it was the new show. the Judy Ghibli film, The Boy and the

6:01

Heron. And I booked in the cinema, and

6:03

I booked like a great seat in

6:05

the middle of the cinema. And then I

6:07

turned up and there was, there

6:09

were two other people in the cinema. And

6:11

they were sitting in the seat next to me. So

6:13

there were three of us for this entire film, sitting

6:16

in whatever it was, the Curzon and Broadgate. But

6:18

we were just sitting in the same three meters squared,

6:21

just like elbow to elbow. The entire cinema

6:23

was empty, but it was too awkward for

6:25

anyone to move. So we all just sat.

6:28

Weird little family. Like a weird, like I

6:30

was like, hey. Hey guys. But

6:33

I didn't say hey, I just sort of

6:35

ate some popcorn quite, really quietly, really quietly,

6:37

every single like crunch noise. Being like, yep.

6:40

Everyone in the cinema is less than

6:42

two meters away from me. I

6:45

have experiences like that fairly. I

6:48

would say like maybe once a quarter, I go

6:50

on a real flurry of like, work

6:53

is a bit dry, but, and

6:57

also whatever, things just a bit dry. And

7:00

I'm like, I am going to really get into going

7:02

to the cinema by myself in the middle of the

7:04

day, because you know what? I'm a

7:06

self-employed person. There is no reason why I can't

7:08

go to museum exhibitions and or cinema trips in

7:10

the middle of the day and things are slow.

7:12

And so I should take advantage of things that

7:14

are slow. And what I love to do is to

7:16

go and see like classic, you know, like 1950s or 60s, or

7:19

sometimes like silent screens or whatever. And it's

7:22

so lovely to see like a beautifully shot,

7:24

old black and white movie in

7:26

quiet cinema in the middle of the day. And what

7:28

I don't like about it is that

7:30

the other people who can see the cinema in

7:32

the middle of the day are unfortunately the most annoying elderly

7:34

people that laugh. And

7:38

they have, there's a certain

7:40

kind of elder cinephile who

7:42

laughs so smugly and loudly at things that

7:44

are like quite funny. It's a bit like

7:47

that thing when people laughing at Shakespeare, that

7:49

sort of the knowing laugh of the Shakespeare

7:51

laugh. It's not just a bit like

7:53

it is the exact same people doing the exact same laugh and that laugh. Oh,

7:55

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

7:58

oh, oh. Ooh-ooh,

8:00

ooh-ooh! It's that laugh.

8:02

It's like, I always heard somebody do it.

8:05

Sometimes it's such a do-it-slap-a-render. Very good! Oh,

8:08

very true! Basically,

8:10

we love, we respect, but

8:13

sometimes in the cinema on a daytime, not

8:15

the best. And I realize I'm colonizing

8:17

very space, so really I should respect

8:19

the customs of the

8:21

indigenous population. You'd upstart entering into a space that

8:24

you don't belong. Maybe I'm the problem, maybe I'm

8:26

not laughing loud enough. Maybe you are not. Maybe

8:29

you should just slip on a chino. Get

8:31

yourself a Negroni, simple pork. It's

8:34

a bundle of pork and watch Grace Kelly. So,

8:37

wrapping your knees. Well, listen, so every... My good

8:39

friend, Grace Kelly. If it's ever a Friday, you

8:41

let me know and I'll come with you. Okay. Oh

8:44

yeah, because you don't work on Fridays. I don't

8:46

work on Fridays. I'm very luxurious and I work

8:48

part-time. Very luxe little chap. Luxe little chap. As

8:50

you can probably tell from our one-mile conversation this

8:52

week, we don't have a lot of news. Yeah,

8:55

it was one of those weeks where it would

8:57

be lovely if we were the kind of people who,

8:59

well, would it be lovely? It would be weird. If

9:01

we were the kind of people who met at a

9:03

scheduled time every single week, like a men's football team.

9:05

Yeah. Or a women's football team

9:07

more successfully. But we don't do that. We

9:09

meet at random when it suits us. And

9:11

sometimes that means we meet with like three

9:13

days between last meetings. Yeah, and so... And

9:15

that's one of these days. Which is nice

9:17

because like you get like the one week,

9:19

you get like the big stories

9:22

about like going to retreats and falling asleep at

9:24

weddings. And the next week you get like, so

9:26

the cinema is an interesting activity. You

9:29

know what else is an interesting activity? What? Reading

9:31

books. Oh yeah, oh my

9:33

God. Okay, so. Since we last met

9:36

not that long ago. Yeah, so when I was leaving your

9:38

house the other day, you said to me, have you

9:40

read the Ministry of Time yet? By an author

9:43

called, I think, Calli-Ann Bradley? Calli-Ann Bradley, yes. Which

9:46

is her debut novel. And I was like, no,

9:48

but you know, it's been in my house for

9:50

ages and like, you know, whatever.

9:52

And then you showed me like one paragraph and

9:54

I laughed so hard. I was like, oh, I'm

9:56

going to read it immediately. And then this morning

9:59

I took the dog for her work. walk and I took a

10:02

book with me, I took the Ministry of Time with me

10:04

and I started reading the first five pages and I was like

10:06

oh I can't do anything else

10:08

today so I've sacked off my entire workload

10:10

today to sit in the garden and read

10:13

the whole book. 125 pages in

10:15

now. It's so good. It's so good.

10:17

Okay so give a summary of the

10:19

Ministry of Time. So the basic concept

10:21

is an unnamed civil servant not too

10:23

far into the future gets a job

10:25

that's a bit mysterious and her job

10:27

it turns out is to act as

10:29

a kind of called

10:32

a bridge but essentially sort of like

10:34

a kind of nanny for people who

10:36

are expats from the past. So the

10:38

British government has invented time travel and

10:40

it's gone back into the past and

10:42

it's grabbed a few people and it's

10:44

bringing them to the present day and

10:46

they've assigned civil servants to try and introduce them

10:50

to the present day. And the person she's been given is a real person

10:52

who really existed

10:57

in history who was a kind of

10:59

Arctic explorer who died. Yes Graham Gore.

11:01

Graham Gore who died in an Arctic

11:03

expedition in the late 19th century and

11:05

he's fucking hot. See where that

11:08

takes you. See

11:10

where that takes you indeed. It's so

11:12

it's so fantastic and I think I

11:14

remember reading because it's been a I

11:16

mean we're not we're not the

11:18

first. We're not like oh we'll understand the gem it's

11:20

like you know people talking about this book. Yeah. It's

11:22

really good. Sometimes people are talking about this book and

11:24

you read it and you're like no I don't love

11:27

it. This is one where I was going oh yeah.

11:29

I can totally understand why this is captured people. So

11:31

amazing. And

11:33

I think what's so interesting about it as well

11:35

is that the people who have been selected from

11:38

the past to bring into the present are

11:40

people who were going to die anyway so you've

11:42

got characters from the Battle of

11:44

the Somme, you've got one character from the

11:47

Great Plague of London. One of my favorite characters

11:49

of all time. So good! She's

11:53

so good. That was the paragraph I showed you.

11:55

Yes. The paragraph where she says like

11:57

something like someone called me a feminist killjoy today

12:00

or something. What does that mean? Do they have

12:02

a base? Do they have a uniform? Perhaps I

12:04

should make one. It

12:06

would send a message I think. I think it was something like

12:10

perhaps a thigh boot and a tabard broidered

12:12

with feminist killjoy. It would send a sturdy

12:14

message I think and I just something about

12:16

it. I obviously don't know justice there but

12:19

it's just so perfect. It's so fabulous.

12:21

I want to be friends with that woman. With

12:24

the author or the professional character. Probably her because she

12:26

came up with this character. Obviously

12:28

but also that character who she came up with. I

12:30

just love it so much and I also just like

12:33

I admit

12:35

it's one of those like wonderful moments that

12:37

like I remember reading a quote from an

12:39

author once who said like I'm just so glad that I get

12:41

to be alive at the same

12:43

time as Patricia Lockwood and it's like

12:45

yes and sometimes it's like you

12:47

know this is a book that's very much

12:49

concerned with the conversation of like well when

12:52

is a good time to be alive. Along with many

12:54

other questions and what's interesting is

12:56

that like you know many of these characters who

12:58

are taken from like either great poverty or surrounded

13:00

by death are very dissatisfied with the present and

13:02

the only thing they like about it is that

13:05

you can get Spotify. The only thing that's really

13:07

unanimous on it is that you can get music

13:09

anywhere at any time and that which is so

13:11

funny. The best thing we've done is that. But

13:13

it's like I'm so happy to be alive at

13:16

the same time as books and authors like this because there's

13:18

like you know it's

13:20

I feel like it's a book it's been taken very seriously

13:22

and at its value

13:25

which is that it's a funny book written by

13:27

a funny person but it's also talking about

13:29

really complex issues because these people

13:34

from the past they're referred to as ex-pats

13:36

because they are they have been for they're

13:38

forcible immigration really. They are in a time

13:41

and a place against their own will and

13:44

the both the

13:46

author and the protagonist are British

13:48

Cambodian and dealing with their own

13:50

kind of complex history of immigration

13:52

and colonialism and essentially like the

13:55

thing of like I

13:58

guess gratitude politics like These

14:00

people have been saved from certain

14:02

death, which is often

14:04

the case of people who are refugees or

14:07

asylum seekers. They're being quote unquote saved from

14:09

a thing, but how much is

14:11

the world ready

14:13

for them? How much can the world accommodate them? All those

14:15

questions. I think it's so brilliantly

14:20

told and so funny and so horny and

14:22

just great and the jokes are great and

14:24

the dialogue is great and I

14:27

just love it. I love it too. I'm sad I'm

14:29

not reading it right now. I'm

14:31

so sorry that you're not reading it right now and

14:33

you have to talk to me instead but I felt

14:35

the same about it when I was reading it with

14:37

my work and I was like oh god I've got

14:39

to do work when I could be learning about this

14:41

and reading this funny book with these sexy people. Just

14:44

great. I just think yeah

14:47

you can be serious and you can

14:50

be sexy at the same time. Yeah and that's

14:52

exactly what I mean by like yeah wanting being

14:54

alive at a great time for women's thoughts I

14:56

suppose. It doesn't have to just be all very

14:58

poe faced and earnest but it can be also

15:00

and that can be good but just reading this

15:02

book I just felt like I felt

15:05

like I had a real hangover from it as

15:07

well. Yeah. A few days where it was just

15:09

very much in my mind. I'm obviously aggressively recommending

15:11

it to everybody. Including you the listener. Yes please

15:13

everyone pick it up and um do you know

15:15

I have enough people picking up

15:17

my building an episode now? Who knows you know? Okay

15:19

I would love that but who knows. It

15:21

is travel. It's travel. It's

15:23

travel. Well girls.

15:26

Well we've made a case for ourselves. Listen

15:29

if enough people um get in touch on the Instagram

15:31

page and said I'm reading it I want to hear

15:33

about it sure because I understand that books because they're

15:35

not albums or films can be kind of alienating reasons

15:37

for people but uh yeah I mean we'll talk about

15:40

it. Listen if we get enough again off Critical Mass

15:42

we'll do that one. Yeah. And if they don't get

15:44

it now get it in a year with paperback we'll

15:46

do it then. We'll do it then but just we

15:48

just we're just huge fans. We're loving it we're loving

15:50

it. You've not even finished it and you love it.

15:52

I finished it and I think it's delicious. Yeah she's

15:55

gonna really have to shit the bear for me. You

15:57

have to be a really really fuck that landing.

15:59

It's gonna be just like She fell asleep on

16:02

her keyboard and printed wing dings and the

16:05

publisher forgot to take it out for me to not

16:07

love it. No, phenomenal. I love it. Well, we're gonna

16:09

watch a film shortly, aren't we? Yeah. A film you've

16:11

not seen, I have seen, and we know we talked

16:13

about that briefly, but what I

16:15

think is interesting about this film, from a post-car perspective,

16:17

is to set in Norway a place we've never been

16:19

but have tried to go several times. We

16:21

have tried to go several times. Several times we've

16:23

thought, Norway, for us. Yeah. But

16:26

it's expensive, it's far away, it's cold. So

16:28

I recall... One day we'll go. Our

16:30

relationship with Norway, from

16:33

my perspective, is this, which is that

16:35

I remember during lockdown I

16:38

was often struck

16:40

by what you could call

16:42

either optimistic and hopeful

16:44

and or extremely callous desires

16:47

to go on holidays because I,

16:51

in terms of like, I kept going on, I

16:53

kept stalkingbooking.com, sort of partially just because I watched...

16:55

The deals were great. The deals

16:57

were great because they were all... Fake things that

17:00

never happened. Fake things that never happened. So I

17:02

booked so many holidays I never went on and

17:04

because booking.com is fantastic. And

17:07

I thought you could just reserve things and not have to

17:09

pay until like two days beforehand or whatever. And

17:11

so I reserved so many holidays and I think part

17:14

of it for me was just like, you

17:16

know, it's that sense of putting outfits in your car

17:18

that you'll never buy kind of thing. I always have those

17:21

two active bookings and book it on my annual time.

17:23

I know. Me

17:25

and Gavin are going to say, Lee Shag February and

17:27

he doesn't even know. Seriously,

17:29

I'm the same. I'm like, oh, what if I did

17:31

that though? Yeah. I'm a genius level three. It's

17:34

actually, I mean, I would say that booking

17:37

are running an opposite business to

17:40

movie in that they are really

17:43

capitalising on how people actually behave rather than

17:45

how people should behave. Yes, with their great

17:47

and deep imagination. Yeah, with their great, exactly

17:49

with their great and deep imagination. Their desires

17:51

and their dreams. And if it doesn't work

17:53

out, hey, it doesn't work out. Yeah, exactly.

17:55

I never used booking.com before Covid when I

17:57

started specularly making booking.com. Now

18:00

suddenly both of us out there are getting all

18:02

their 20% off discounts. Yeah! It's

18:04

fantastic. Yeah. I thought

18:06

we were just like reviewing various online services.

18:09

And they're not even paying you to do that. It's disgusting.

18:12

Yeah, but Norway was one of the places that I

18:14

tendered on and then I was like, Jen. We're going to Norway!

18:16

I think this lockdown will be over pretty soon. It seems

18:18

like a fad to me. Shall we book?

18:21

And we did. And then we just kept booking and kept cancelling

18:23

and kept booking because they kept being a lockdown. Yeah.

18:26

And so yeah, we've just never been to Norway. We haven't. But

18:29

it does feel, it feels true

18:32

that we'll go to Norway one

18:34

day. Yeah. It's not this year,

18:36

I don't think. What's your

18:38

experience with the Scandi countries in general?

18:40

So I will often, if asked, say

18:42

I love Scandinavia. I love Scandinavia.

18:44

What you mean is you love the Moomins. I

18:46

do. What

18:49

I actually mean is I've been to Copenhagen six times.

18:51

Oh! Nowhere else. I've only

18:54

been to Copenhagen. But it's not even

18:56

really the depths of Scandinavia.

18:59

But I do love Copenhagen. Yeah. I've

19:02

also been there. I've been there one time. But yeah, I've

19:04

never been to Sweden. I've never been to Finland. I've never

19:06

been to Norway. But I know

19:08

in my waters that I would get on

19:10

very well there. Yeah. Why?

19:13

Because I hate hot places. I hate them.

19:16

I like trees. I like them. I like

19:18

fish. Yeah. And I like good design. Yeah.

19:22

And you like fairness and things that work.

19:24

I do. And that's what they're all

19:26

about. And I'm very happy to be highly taxed. Yes.

19:30

I feel like here's

19:33

why enough of us haven't

19:35

been to Sweden, Finland. It's

19:38

incredibly expensive to go there. I know. Yes.

19:41

Obviously, it is expensive. Part of it. Because

19:43

the first waivers of people who have gone to Scandinavia in

19:46

terms of modern tourists are

19:49

often like bougie

19:51

ended business people who work in finance. And

19:54

they go and they come back and all they

19:56

say is a bottle of water is

19:58

11 euro and parking is... even

20:01

more expensive and everything's expensive and a night

20:03

out is 400 quid easy

20:06

and don't go basically is

20:08

what lots of people have told me over the

20:10

year and then like it's I

20:12

think it like puts people off

20:14

because almost everyone is in a mindset where

20:16

they want to spend less money on holidays

20:18

that more yeah definitely but I think then

20:20

what you disallow is sort of like fjords

20:23

beautiful retreats like lovely like I'm

20:25

desperate to go to Gothenburg because

20:27

apparently it has a renaissance fair

20:30

that goes on for a month or something like

20:32

it sounds so good and beautiful and Sweden's on

20:34

the list yeah

20:38

but I think there was there was definitely

20:40

a class of first waivers who by that

20:42

I mean millennial first waivers who went went

20:45

for business and went to get pissed and

20:47

got annoyed by it and then came back

20:49

I think what's missing is is us I

20:51

think we could do Scandinavian garbage

20:54

yeah I'm desperate to Scandinavian garbage I think

20:56

we could have a lovely time yeah I

20:58

think we'd have to save up a bit

21:00

in advance but equally when I've been there

21:04

it's not like it's that much more expensive than

21:06

living in London I don't think yeah a touch

21:08

more a touch yeah

21:11

we can not insanely so let's just save up

21:13

for it let's just say I'm just Scandinavian garbage

21:15

because we're called to it we think it's

21:17

beautiful it's a lovely place got

21:20

a lot of trees they have got movement we

21:23

like to wild swim yeah I

21:25

don't like to be too hot I just don't know it

21:27

bothers me well let's see what

21:29

Norway has to offer us in this movie well we'll find

21:31

out very shortly the only thing I do remember is that

21:34

there's just no nighttime in this movie oh

21:37

really because of famous screwy

21:39

Scandinavian daylight I just assume they filmed

21:41

it all in summer but I just

21:43

remember leaving the cinema and thinking it's

21:45

never nighttime in that film oh so

21:47

I think we're gonna have that experience

21:50

okay appropriate because you know it's not

21:53

really nighttime here either yeah all right let's

21:55

let's dive in let's go Norway

21:58

has to offer us Well everyone,

22:00

this week's podcast has been a review of

22:02

various streaming services. Books

22:05

and Norway. A place we

22:07

haven't been to, but one day will. My

22:12

dad works in B2B marketing. He came

22:15

by my school for career day and

22:17

said he was a big roe-ass man.

22:19

Then he told everyone how much he

22:21

loved calculating his return on ad spend.

22:24

My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not

22:27

everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be

22:29

able to reach people who do. Get a

22:31

$100 credit on your next

22:33

ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to

22:36

claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms

22:38

and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place

22:40

to be, to be. It's that

22:43

time of the year. Your vacation

22:45

is coming up. You

22:47

can already hear the beach waves,

22:49

feel the warm breeze, Lacks.

22:52

Think about work. You really really

22:54

wanted all the work out while

22:56

you're away. monday.com gives you an

22:58

the team that peace of mind

23:00

when all work is on one

23:02

platform and every once. In a think

23:05

things just flow wherever you are. Tapped

23:07

the banner to go to monday.com. Okay,

23:16

we just got back from Norway. But

23:18

back from Norway? Norway, the land of

23:20

eternal sunshine. The sun never sets. Perpetual

23:22

malaise. Did you feel the way I

23:24

felt, which is that I wanted in

23:26

the corner of this film there to

23:28

be both a 24-hour clock and

23:32

like a calendar? So

23:35

badly. I wanted it to be Kiefer Sald

24:00

No, I'm, well, are you 46? I

24:02

need to know all of these things. And

24:04

I hadn't realized I needed to know that

24:06

until this, my second watch of this film.

24:08

Yeah. in

24:10

one day that lasts forever. Yeah.

24:13

Or it could be over 20 years. Yeah,

24:15

totally. Cause it's like really context clues tell

24:18

us about age gaps

24:20

and years passing and time

24:22

passing. And I mean,

24:25

obviously this pertains specifically to the

24:27

like sort of the part of

24:30

the hemisphere that Norway lives in.

24:32

Yeah. Which is that sometimes she

24:34

leaves a party and it's her

24:37

manner is that it's very late and she's been

24:39

there a long time. And then she walks out

24:41

into broad daylight and you're like, it's so jarring.

24:45

Like was this like a way of making the production

24:48

less expensive? Yeah. Or is that

24:50

just like, no, verisimilitude is like,

24:52

as though it's real. Is

24:55

it similitude for Norway? Maybe.

24:58

I've not been. So I don't know. But

25:01

in some, the

25:03

worst person in the world is a movie about...

25:06

It's about a woman who is... Called

25:09

Julie. Called Julia. Julia. Julia.

25:12

Julia. Julia in

25:14

English. Who is

25:17

any age between 20 and 46. And

25:22

it's kind of just like living her life and

25:24

it's often single, but then it's sometimes in relationships

25:28

and she's just kind of going through it. But also, is it really

25:30

about her? Okay. So

25:33

it's definitely her... So she's the titular star

25:35

of the movie. Yeah, she is the titular

25:37

worst person. Yeah. And I think the sort

25:39

of the angle of the worst person. And I

25:42

think, do you know, this is a movie,

25:44

it's very surprising to me. It's a very,

25:46

as we kept calling it, it's a very

25:48

movie movie. We kept saying it's very movie.

25:50

It's very movie. And then a movie as

25:53

like a pale ass pumped into

25:55

another pale ass. So it was like someone

25:57

simbered themselves with their own menstrual blood. We were

26:00

like, oh, it's very woomby. Yeah, it's very

26:02

art. It's very accessible art house cinema

26:04

for the girlies. Much more woomby on

26:06

its second watch for me than I remember

26:08

it being. Yeah, yeah. It's very like long,

26:10

mumbly conversations where people pause and then it

26:13

seems like they're talking about something quite abstract

26:15

or quite everyday, and then they'll just look

26:18

back into the camera and talk about, you know,

26:20

death or whatever. And

26:24

it's really charming and really good, but

26:27

I guess it's easily the lens of

26:29

the worst person in the world, like

26:31

taking absolute face value. I think what

26:33

we're supposed to take as that storyline

26:35

is there's this girl and she's called

26:37

Julie, Yulie, and she's

26:40

very incredibly bright and very

26:42

beautiful. Very

26:45

much the, like,

26:47

what one thinks of when they think of a Sally Rooney

26:49

character, you know, like a beautiful, bright

26:52

brunette. Dakota Johnson of Norway.

26:55

The Dakota Johnson of Norway with perfect

26:57

tits and a tiny waist. And

26:59

she is incredibly bright. First

27:03

she goes to medical

27:06

school because, and I've actually

27:08

met a lot of people who are like this, like it's the

27:10

hardest thing to do and therefore they do it because- I

27:12

can prove yourself. It's a way, yeah, it's how you

27:14

get people to sort of acknowledge the largeness of

27:16

your brain. And then she

27:18

realizes, no, she doesn't care about medicine, she cares about

27:20

the mind, and so she tries

27:22

therapy for a while, and she gets bored of that,

27:24

and she gets into photography, and then she gets bored of that,

27:27

so then she gets into being people's girlfriend. And

27:29

working in a bookshop. And working in a

27:31

bookshop. And then what I took

27:33

from that was very much like, there's,

27:35

you know, the very common story. You see it

27:37

in fiction and you see it in real life

27:39

as well. Yeah. It's like somebody

27:41

who, they have so much potential and feels

27:43

like the world is ahead of them, but

27:45

also because we

27:47

live in this specific era,

27:49

the world is quite stymied by

27:52

many things. Like, yes, you could do something creative,

27:54

but most of the creative arts are actually, there's

27:56

a class feeling which is filled with men who have

27:59

been doing things longer. than you and it

28:01

seems like it's impossible and you could do

28:03

all this stuff but actually it feels

28:06

really impossible and anyway the world is only

28:08

gonna last another 40 years anyway so yeah

28:10

why even bother and so this kind of

28:12

calcifies into a malaise which kind of turns

28:14

her into a professional girlfriend she

28:17

then gets sick of being a professional girlfriend

28:19

and cheats on her

28:21

partner long-term partner Axel who is a comic book

28:23

artist. Long-term could have been 12 hours could have

28:25

been 12 years we're not sure. Yeah how long

28:27

were they going out? We don't know. I would

28:30

love some references to actual time to know

28:32

how long they're going out but we get

28:34

we gather a few years so she goes

28:37

she's got with him she it's a

28:39

classic story of like young woman who

28:41

loves being able to skip the grotesqueries

28:43

of being young by immersing herself into

28:45

an older man's world it's like oh

28:47

I get to skip the ratty phase

28:49

and now I'm in his lovely apartment

28:51

and I get to live here now

28:53

and that's great and then

28:55

she obviously gets bored of that

28:58

has an affair with somebody else

29:00

leaves him for somebody else and

29:02

then quickly after that Axel is

29:04

diagnosed well quickly or maybe seven

29:06

years later I don't know. And

29:08

about you know 10-12ths of the

29:10

way through this film. Yeah she

29:13

definitely looks less sleek and

29:15

young I guess yeah oh

29:18

she's wearing fewer backless gowns

29:20

and then she realizes that

29:23

you know he's dying of pancreatic cancer

29:25

they sort of reconnect through his dying

29:27

and then she

29:30

almost acts an emotional affair with him and so

29:32

I guess that's what makes her the worst person

29:35

in the world right? Yeah but is that her

29:37

calling herself that or is that that's

29:39

sort of unclear yeah because the

29:41

only person who in this film actually calls

29:44

themselves and the worst person in the world

29:46

as far as I know you know a

29:48

very limited Norwegian is what's

29:50

his name? Einwler? Einwler?

29:52

The man with whom she

29:54

sort of cheats on Axel

29:57

calls himself that but everyone else

29:59

does. And I don't

30:02

know, it feels like... I

30:06

don't know that she does hate herself that much. Do

30:09

you know what I mean? But there's something... I

30:11

think you said to me at the end of this film, and

30:13

I thought it was really interesting, because I do find this film

30:15

very beautiful and

30:18

very charming in so many ways. But you

30:20

said to me, I feel like I don't

30:23

totally know who she is, but I definitely know

30:25

who Axel is. And I definitely feel like

30:27

this is in some ways Axel's film. And

30:30

you can sort of see it being written from the

30:32

perspective of someone who had a flighty girlfriend who was

30:34

a bit younger than them. Yeah. And

30:36

was like, imagine how

30:39

she'd feel if I fucking died. Imagine

30:42

how you'd feel if I died in the movie. And

30:44

then wrote a film. Literally, there are moments where I'm

30:46

like, when he's like, she's the worst person in the

30:48

world. And I was watching it, well, she's not the

30:50

worst person in the world. He said she doesn't know

30:52

who she is, she doesn't know what she wants. I

30:55

think the first time I saw it, I found

30:58

her very relatable, maybe whenever it first came out.

31:00

I think 2021 it came out, so three years

31:02

ago. Three years ago, I found her more relatable

31:04

than I find her now. Yeah. But

31:07

I think that's more, I found the first half of

31:09

the film, where she's just kind of fucking around a

31:11

bit, quite relatable. Yeah. It's

31:13

definitely like... That's when she's at her most charming,

31:16

when she's just like, I'm just going to say

31:18

some shit to people at parties and see what

31:20

happens. Yeah, I really enjoyed that. She really starts

31:22

very strong. And then at

31:24

the end, she's like, I don't know, do I want to be a

31:26

mother? And I was like, oh God, do it on your own time,

31:28

babe. I don't know. That's totally... I

31:31

didn't find her... the

31:35

great questions of her life that

31:37

fascinating. No. I

31:39

guess because it feels like territory that's been

31:42

so chewed over. Yeah. In

31:44

terms of like, do I want to be a mother?

31:46

Would I be good at it? Would I be a

31:48

good mother? Tell me I'd be a good mother. It's

31:50

like, I don't know, probably most people

31:52

are an okay mother. Yes, exactly. I

31:54

don't think there's like, sorting hat binaries of who would

31:56

be a good mother. Yeah, right? And I get a

31:59

little bored of that. line of chat to be honest.

32:01

I'm sure there were some people who were convinced they would

32:03

be here with shit and some who think they'd be terrible and

32:05

it'd be great and it's all just... Yeah,

32:07

and also I have... Just take the tombola mix it

32:09

up and you'll find out, you know. Cards on the

32:11

table I have definitely as a woman when I

32:13

was in my 20s would sometimes... Because

32:16

I have a maternal instinct that very

32:18

much comes and goes and I would

32:20

say for the most part goes. You've

32:22

got a beautiful little dog. I know, I mother her

32:25

expertly. But I

32:27

definitely went through a phase in my mid to late 20s

32:29

of saying I don't know if I would even be a

32:31

good mother. And it was my way

32:33

of like, I don't know, it was slightly... It

32:37

was a little bit pick-me-behaviour and it was also

32:39

just trying to shut down the conversation in ways

32:42

that felt more interesting than like, I don't know, I'm

32:44

not sure it seems expensive in a heart. Yes,

32:47

which is what I think it truly means. I think it

32:49

means it's expensive in heart and I'm not sure if I

32:51

can be asked. Yeah. Which is fundamentally

32:53

what I think it means. I say you're not sure you'd

32:55

be a good mother. It's like, could I be asked to do

32:57

it? Or you all could. Yeah. We'd all be

33:00

good at any job if we really try hard enough. Yeah,

33:02

if you have to. If the

33:04

life of a human person is on the line,

33:06

you generally combine the gumption to be good at

33:08

anything. You're probably going to step up, aren't you,

33:10

in that moment. Yeah. And what she actually is

33:12

afraid of. I don't know. I have no idea

33:15

about the origins of the story or who wrote

33:17

it or why they decided to make it, but the director is

33:19

a man for sure. But it's like,

33:22

but the bit that was more relevant

33:24

to me was the way, you know, she

33:27

is the secondary figure in that

33:29

relationship. Yeah. He is a

33:31

famous cartoonist of like edgy cartoons of a

33:33

cat with a butthole. But

33:36

they smoothed it out in the film. But they smoothed it out in

33:38

the film. And she's

33:40

like, you want to have

33:43

kids so badly, but it's very obvious to everybody

33:45

that the minute we have kids, they will become

33:47

my responsibility. I

33:49

still haven't gone to the end of my journey of

33:51

figuring out who I am by myself. And like, that's

33:53

so that's yeah, that

33:55

feels way more relevant to me than like, would

33:57

I be good at it? I don't know. Yeah,

34:00

but but right now is this the time and I think she

34:02

does talk about that quite a bit of just like oh I

34:04

know I want them But

34:06

yeah, like not today

34:10

Yeah, and also he doesn't choose the best

34:12

time to ask her about it, which is when they're at like

34:14

some kind of weird beautiful retreat

34:16

with his Friends

34:18

who have a family you are and the

34:20

case Yeah, you

34:22

asked me to remind you of the scene the one where They're

34:26

staying in bunk beds. Yeah,

34:28

beautiful Norwegian cabin as

34:30

all Basically that the

34:32

hierarchy goes Married

34:34

people with children. Yeah Or

34:37

just people with children married people

34:40

married people without children Yeah, or

34:43

unmarried people without children single

34:45

people and Rooms

34:47

were allocated on that basis. They very much are

34:49

so they're on bunk beds because they don't have

34:51

kids. Yeah, it makes no sense because

34:55

Surely if you've got kids, you're used to sharing

34:57

your bed with kids. You fucking love your little

34:59

single bed for the night This is definitely coming

35:01

from a woman who's been given some I've

35:04

stayed in a few bunk beds in my time.

35:06

It's fine That's totally fine. But yeah, yes, and

35:08

I loved it but They

35:11

are having a conversation about children about life

35:14

and while this happens the

35:16

people are hosting them having a screaming row in

35:18

the next room Yeah, and then they're getting to

35:20

one little bunk bed together just being like oh

35:26

This scene why it's because So

35:29

I may have told this acto on the podcast

35:31

before but in the very early days of Airbnb

35:34

Me and Kevin planned a trip around the

35:36

south. So the southern states of

35:38

America We stayed with this wonderful

35:41

a couple in New Orleans. They had like

35:43

the most it was like, you know That's

35:45

about what Airbnb was actually when actually good

35:47

when you actually met rent cool people Yeah,

35:50

and you like had drinks with them and yeah, whatever

35:52

and they told you about local art shows, you know

35:54

And so it was very much that phase of things

35:56

and we were like wow this incredible gay couple and

35:59

they own a couple of galleries town and they're in

36:01

a restaurant and if we go to the restaurant we

36:03

can eat and have price and they're so cool and

36:05

so aspirational and they're five or six years older than

36:07

us and then one time we came back from sightseeing

36:10

and the plan was that we

36:12

were going to like see the city all day and then go

36:14

for the disco nap and then wake up and go

36:17

out and go see the famous jazz. No,

36:20

the jazz of New Orleans. Of

36:22

Narlin's herself. And

36:26

then we woke up about an hour

36:28

after we fell asleep and to the

36:30

sound of them screaming at one another.

36:34

Phenomenal. And

36:38

it was just the meanest fight I

36:40

have ever heard in my life to

36:43

the point where like it was basically I can

36:45

still tell you that the. How

36:48

smug did you feel listening? Was it a mixture

36:50

of sadness? No, it was horrible. It was so

36:52

horrible because at first it was like that thing

36:54

of like hee hee hee. We're hearing people's like

36:56

private moments but then it got it got so

36:58

vicious where it got to the funny thing. I

37:00

was like basically they were in an open relationship

37:02

that one of them wanted to close the relationship

37:04

down and then the other one

37:07

was like I don't see how you expect me

37:09

to want to close down the relationship when you

37:11

don't even use the gym membership that I got

37:13

you. I was like wow. And

37:18

then it went on for so long and then it

37:20

was like one of the guys was

37:23

like you know I was talking

37:25

to Kate and you know we're not married. We don't

37:27

have any like rights. I don't have any rights in

37:29

terms of like our business is whatever. And

37:31

then the other guy snapped back. Yeah, well Kate's a cunt. And

37:39

then it became clear to me and Gavin that

37:41

like they obviously they had no idea that we

37:44

were in the room. They obviously thought we were still out. And

37:47

so we just had to stay in there almost. And

37:50

we only had three days in New Orleans. Were

37:53

you really hungry or thirsty? We

37:55

were both Jennifer. Was there a toilet? No,

37:58

we had non-sweet but we had no food.

38:00

I remember so clearly I had two travel

38:02

Kit Kats in my handbag. We

38:04

just rationed over the evening and then it

38:07

just became so clear that it wasn't gonna

38:09

end. Because it's a lambersbrud. Lambersbrud! A

38:12

tiny little nibble. Yeah and then it became so clear it

38:15

wasn't gonna end and then it wasn't... At

38:17

no point you'd just be like I'm just gonna go out first. We

38:19

were 25, no. Yeah, yeah.

38:21

Could be that. Oh my

38:23

god. And so yeah, that experience is...

38:26

I think it is quite... I've not had it myself

38:28

but a friend of mine had it a few years

38:30

ago at a festival. Yeah. Where we were with a

38:32

group of people. Famously no walls in a festival. Famously

38:35

no walls, only tents. And we were sharing our campsite

38:37

and I feel okay saying this because I'm basically

38:39

certain that neither of the people involved would ever listen

38:41

to this podcast. Because they're just

38:44

not cool enough. And

38:47

I... it was a couple... I know the hymn

38:49

of the couple vaguely through friends. I

38:51

knew the her through him and she was very

38:53

annoying. And they had quite a fractious

38:55

relationship. And one of my very

38:57

dear friends, Heather, was quite hungover in

39:00

a tent in the middle of like... You had gone home

39:02

to have a little sleep. Yeah. Maybe

39:05

not in the middle of the day but like... Sure. She

39:07

was sleeping quite late because she had been out very

39:09

late. And she woke up, you know, as

39:11

you do boiling in a bag in a tent. Oh

39:13

the worst... that's the worst feeling in the

39:16

world. It's 35 degrees in your tent. You

39:18

need a piss, you need a drink. You

39:20

need to do so many things. But outside

39:22

her tent, this couple are having the argument

39:24

to end all arguments. Oh

39:28

no. Not real, it's because the rest of us had all

39:30

gone somewhere to do an event. I think maybe after performing

39:32

or something. And so she just

39:34

literally... she was so embarrassed that

39:36

she was texting me and she was like, They're having

39:39

this big fight. It's really quite awkward. It's

39:41

very personal. I'm going to die of exposure in here. I

39:43

think I'm going to die like a dog in a hot

39:45

car. But

39:48

I cannot leave my tent. So

39:50

when we saw her later, she was just

39:52

like this sort of like red sweaty woman just being like,

39:55

Yeah, they seem okay now, which is good.

39:58

I mean there's a reason there's like kind of

40:00

like friendly. episode about this where they eat the

40:02

wax. Yeah. What? Where it's like Rachel and Ross

40:04

are having this like brain melting.

40:06

It's when she finds out that he cheats

40:08

I think. And then

40:10

they're all just stuck in Malika's bedroom,

40:12

all of the other friends and

40:15

they end up eating organic hot wax.

40:18

Is this a reason? I mean people try

40:20

and come for friends is a fucking reason.

40:22

I've never been a friends guy so that's

40:25

not my best con. But there's nothing on

40:27

God's Green Earth that

40:29

would keep me in a ball in a bag

40:31

tent. There's no argument so bad that I wouldn't

40:33

go out and be like, hello friends. This sounds

40:35

like a therapy question. Anyway, I'll

40:37

let you sort it out. I think now, yeah, as a woman in one of

40:39

my 30s, I would never tolerate it

40:41

now. But me 10 years ago,

40:43

obviously did tolerate it. But I just

40:46

think the main thing about

40:48

it is that like, what

40:50

happens, I think what happens to you in

40:52

your brain is you're like, oh, I'm hearing

40:54

a couple's private moment, I would do nothing

40:57

to pass up this opportunity

40:59

because I'm a human being who loves to do some gossip.

41:01

But then you realize the

41:03

longer that you listen and the worse that it gets

41:05

that you realize that the exit

41:08

portal has left as closed.

41:11

Because the when

41:13

you leave, they will become aware of how

41:15

much you've heard and that's the worst thing

41:17

in the world. You're right that is. And

41:19

that I think is why it's amazing that

41:22

noise cancelling headphones have been invented. Yeah, because

41:24

you can probably if you've got a good

41:26

lying face on you breeze out there, take

41:28

your headphones out, be like, God, sorry, I

41:30

had no idea you were here. Bye, boy.

41:32

Only Ricky's

41:36

favorite.

41:39

I tell you what noise cancelling headphones are the great gift

41:41

of our age. That Spotify,

41:43

Graham Gourd be so

41:45

delighted. So delighted. Yeah, I

41:48

thought it was a very charming moment to another charming

41:50

moment. I think from this film that I loved representation

41:53

on screen for the end of We

41:55

Fart. I

41:58

love fanfare. months

42:00

the end of we fires. She's having

42:02

a little we in front of somebody

42:04

yeah and it is a tiny little

42:06

fart and then she just cracks up

42:08

it's so good. That's like what happens.

42:11

I love that whole section. It

42:13

was so good. The section that

42:15

that happens in is she's dissatisfied

42:17

with being the sort of beautiful

42:20

professional girlfriend of a famous cartoonist. Which is

42:23

fair enough. Which is fair enough. Aren't we

42:25

all? I've never been that. Do you know

42:27

what's so funny about that? It's so unreliable

42:29

for me because I've never been someone's professional

42:32

girlfriend. No. Well. I've

42:35

never dated anyone impressive enough.

42:40

Well you never know. You never know. Yeah

42:42

no but seriously. She

42:45

clearly gets sick of this

42:47

and she

42:49

sort of acts out on the way home

42:51

from like yet another party where everyone wants

42:54

to talk to her famous boyfriend and not

42:56

to her. And here's what she does and

42:58

they're like oh I'll see you in a

43:00

minute bye. Yeah yeah exactly and she says

43:03

to her her boyfriend look I'm gonna head

43:05

off or whatever and then she heads home

43:07

she leaves the party it is four o'clock

43:09

in the morning or four p.m. at night

43:12

or eight thirty. It's hard to say. It's

43:14

impossible to say and then she passes on

43:16

her walk home a wedding that's in full

43:19

swing and she decides fuck it

43:21

I'm gonna go to this wedding. We've all done that.

43:23

Yeah we've all done that. I have

43:26

actually done that. I have been in

43:28

situations where it's like maybe not a wedding but

43:30

certainly engagement parties and certainly birthdays. Oh

43:32

I've been in situations where I've been in like

43:34

a hotel for a thing like say I'm there

43:37

for like a weekend literary

43:39

event or something and then there'll be a

43:41

hotel wedding in the ballroom and I'm like

43:43

oh do you know what I really like I'm really hungry

43:45

there's room service is over I'm gonna pop in see if

43:47

they have any snacks gone around. They always do. I haven't

43:50

had the kind of experience that she's had though which

43:52

is having a full-on

43:55

affair with a stranger at

43:57

a wedding. That's very true. She's not invited. to

43:59

do. But have you had the

44:02

experience she has, which I really enjoyed, of being

44:04

there and thinking no one will know who I

44:06

am, so I can just

44:09

talk absolute shit. Do whatever. That bit

44:11

where she tells a woman who's very

44:13

boringly talking about weaning her children that

44:17

her kids will become drug addicts because she couples

44:19

them too much. She's like, well, I'm a doctor.

44:22

I know. It's just absolutely like... But

44:26

it's very... So convincing.

44:28

So convincing and so Dakota Johnson

44:30

energy. So Dakota Johnson took up

44:32

lines. Our favorite NHS receptionist. I

44:34

just love lines. I have

44:37

to have them in all of my rooms. I

44:39

have to dress them like this. No Ellen. No

44:42

Ellen. That's not true. You were invited. To

44:44

me, like, there's nothing... No, you can't have

44:46

an appointment for like maybe a month. Oh

44:48

my God, don't be like that. There's

44:52

nothing more amusing to me than... You

44:58

get it with Dakota Johnson and you get it with Julie

45:01

in this film and they both look very similar.

45:03

They do. With someone who is

45:05

really relishing having a private joke with himself.

45:08

I think it's particularly refreshing in an era where

45:10

people are always having a private joke with an

45:12

audience. Hey, we're doing it right now. We're doing

45:14

it right now. This is what that is. When

45:17

you really see somebody who's just doing

45:19

something for only their own amusement. It's

45:21

quite refreshing. It makes me love Dakota

45:24

Johnson. This is our

45:26

first subtitle film for Count Travel

45:28

Challenge. Do you know what it is? It's a film

45:30

that's got absolutely no travel in it, but it has

45:32

got subtitles which makes it feel travel adjacent. Here's

45:35

the way in which I find it's travel

45:37

related. Okay, is it because it's in Norway?

45:40

It's in Norway. A place I

45:42

plan to travel to one day. But I

45:44

also think it sort of... I

45:47

find it really fascinating, the

45:50

whole concept of not

45:53

wanting to pick a major for one's

45:55

own self and your own life. She

45:58

does the... female, obviously

46:01

women can backpack as well, but

46:03

they're a very female coded version of

46:05

backpacking, which is backpacking boyfriends kind of

46:08

thing. I

46:12

do think there's this thing

46:14

that runs through her that I'm really interested in, which is

46:18

she's obviously very lovable and fun and

46:21

good and she can do the domestic

46:23

thing for a while, but in

46:26

terms of really bedding down with a

46:28

person and finding a home in a

46:30

person, it makes her incredibly nervous. So

46:33

she is very much travelling. I even get the sense

46:35

when she's very much with...she's

46:37

very bedded down with both boyfriends.

46:40

She lives with them, but she is just

46:42

travelling still and she's sort of doing the

46:44

thing where you go to Bali and so

46:47

now you're wearing... She's on her gap here

46:49

romantically forever. Forever. I

46:51

think we get a lot of... A lot of being really hot,

46:53

I think. Hard to be

46:55

single when you're really hot. Because someone's always interested.

46:57

Someone's always there and you're like, well, I'm

47:00

saying that as though I know it. You do

47:02

know it. No, I've been single for so long.

47:04

You do, but people always want a slice. You

47:08

can take it in a different way. Anyway, I think

47:11

there's a level of hot where it's very hard

47:13

to be single and I think she's at that

47:15

level. Yeah. And

47:18

that's the backpacking life that's always open to her.

47:21

Yes, I do know people who live in

47:23

that realm of the top 1% of hotness

47:26

and they are all

47:28

unhappy romantically. I have one... Well,

47:32

friends will be an overstretched, I don't know about that

47:34

one, but a cordial acquaintance who I share with another

47:36

friend. And every now

47:38

and then, I didn't

47:41

know with this friend. I'm just like, I'm

47:43

so glad I'm not this person because she's

47:45

so beautiful and so talented that

47:47

first of all, it's really hard to be single. Loads

47:51

of people who want data are actually just

47:53

pricks because they just see her and go,

47:55

this person is she is just just in

47:58

the top 1% of beautiful people. and

48:00

it just makes you really glad to not be

48:02

there. Yeah, because the kind of cadre of man

48:05

that approaches an incredibly beautiful

48:07

woman. They have this, they're

48:09

not the best. Yeah. They're

48:11

not great, those ones. Right.

48:15

They're not great. And it's because we live in

48:17

this society that for a man to have a

48:19

very beautiful, beautiful girlfriend is

48:22

one of these incredible status symbols. And so

48:24

I know people who are super attractive and

48:27

they are living within a world of traded

48:29

status symbols, because beauty is like a lie

48:31

we're all telling ourselves. So

48:34

the pool which they think

48:36

they can date within is actually

48:38

incredibly narrow. It's equivalent to dating

48:40

within a small religious caste. Exactly.

48:43

And they make life sad for themselves.

48:46

Because so many people wouldn't even approach

48:48

them. Yeah. I think it probably

48:50

is. And they also cancel out a lot of people

48:52

as well. I know a lot of people who have

48:54

been made shallow by their own heartness. I

48:57

think it is a curse. Yeah, it is

48:59

a genuine fucking curse. Because as she

49:01

learns on her mushroom trip, it goes

49:04

and she'll have nothing at the end of it. Right?

49:09

I don't wanna sympathize with

49:12

one of those terrible Daily Mail articles about like,

49:14

I used to be heartened now, I'm not anymore

49:16

and my life has changed. I do

49:18

imagine it is quite hard. See, I think

49:20

that our main character,

49:22

Yuli, is suffering from terminal hotness.

49:24

Yeah. She is. We

49:28

expect the lead actors in movies

49:30

to be incredibly hot. And for that just to

49:32

be the wallpaper of the movie. It's like that's

49:35

just, in order for us to be able to

49:37

focus on the film and a narrative for

49:39

two hours, the person must be unbelievably hot. So

49:41

easy on the eye. Otherwise...

49:44

Well, what am I doing here? Jesus. But

49:47

like, her hotness is almost a character in

49:49

the film. It's like a really, it's like an influence

49:51

and a theme. And I do feel like it really

49:53

affects the way in which this character moves through the

49:55

world. And that there are always kind of options and

49:57

people who will pick up the slack of the person

49:59

who... with her. And like, something

50:01

that also occurred to me in this is

50:03

that I think, I think

50:07

when you're an extraordinarily hot person, and also

50:10

I think it's much as made as well

50:12

that she's very bright, right? And like she's

50:14

the... But in that classic way where you're

50:16

told it but you don't see it. Yeah.

50:20

You hear her one paragraph of writing which

50:22

is about how she loves soft dicks. That's

50:24

a soft dick. And that's like a real

50:26

Joan Didion moment. Yeah. She's like, for me,

50:28

a flaxed dick is the best. And

50:32

I do insist on saying flaxed because it is the correct...

50:35

Oh, flaxed. Flaxed. Really?

50:37

Tell you who taught me that. My grandmother. Your

50:42

face just there was a picture. Right.

50:46

Not in the context of flaxed dick. I have to tell

50:48

you. Flaxed. Like I was next to this. Yeah. Think of

50:50

any other word with two C's in it. Success.

50:55

That's the only one you can think of. Yeah. Success.

50:58

It's just flaxed. Flaxed. I

51:05

hate her sometimes. Flaxed. Flaxed.

51:09

The only thing we ever hear her writing

51:11

is a very short two sentences,

51:14

maybe three, about how she

51:16

likes flaxed cocks. Which

51:18

her then partner reads and says, this is amazing. What are you

51:21

going to do with it? She's like, I don't know. Maybe

51:24

say it to my dad. And

51:27

then next thing you know, yeah, her dad's being

51:29

sent an article and there's another article and one

51:31

in the trash. And it's just like, I hope

51:34

you're writing something else. Because it seemed dumb. I'm just

51:36

saying that we don't see anything else. Yeah. Yeah. With

51:40

the male characters, we see the

51:43

cartoonist, Axel, his illustrious career and

51:45

everyone respects him. And even the

51:47

other guy who's a barista, his

51:50

thoughts about climate change and et

51:52

cetera are quite lineage. But she's

51:54

sort of drifting. She's kind of a cipher. I

51:57

mean, barista guy, I think it's

51:59

his girlfriend. thoughts. Yes but he dumps them.

52:01

You're right that's true. But Axel is of

52:03

course the the originator of one of the

52:05

most iconic buttholes ever. Forgot

52:08

himself. Okay

52:11

so what did you think of Axel? So

52:13

I think early in the film I

52:15

realised watching Second Time Around there's

52:17

some quite all too well stuff there

52:20

you know. He's just very keen to

52:22

stress the age difference between him. Yes.

52:25

Like and you know that

52:27

thing of like I'm just a lot older than you

52:29

and it's like we yeah

52:32

but if that's a problem why

52:35

on earth did you try and like have

52:37

sex with me? Have

52:40

you experienced that? I've experienced that. Yeah

52:42

of course. And it's never really been a significant

52:44

age difference. Like

52:47

I would say I dated a man

52:49

who was like seven years older than me who made

52:51

a huge deal out of it and I occasionally would

52:53

be like seven years is not that much for both

52:55

in our third no not thirties probably late twenties. Yeah.

52:57

So I was a man at 13 minutes early thirties

52:59

and I was like this is not when

53:02

I was 17 and 25 23 that's a

53:04

big deal for my five but it's not now.

53:06

I just had no sense. Stop getting horny

53:08

about that. What was their age difference though?

53:10

He was I think 40 something

53:13

as she was 29. Okay. So maybe 11

53:15

years at most. Just not enough

53:18

to write home about. Like

53:20

it's just not impressive. Yeah. It

53:23

would be a bit weird. Okay I'm 37.

53:25

One of my male friends turned

53:28

up with a girlfriend who was 26. I think there's a

53:30

little bit me that would be a bit like it

53:32

wouldn't be that hurt. I'd worry a little bit about him.

53:35

I'd be a bit like oh no are you

53:37

one of those who can't

53:39

fancy women unless they're are

53:42

you willing in order to cap it essentially.

53:44

Yeah yeah. A 26 year old woman whatever

53:46

like that I have I have

53:48

quite a number of friends who are that age there's

53:50

no like oh no they don't understand the world. Yeah.

53:53

Insane it's just an insane thought. We've

53:55

gone a bit mad with all that.

53:57

We have. I just

53:59

think they're I honestly

54:02

think, what I will die on,

54:05

the hill I will die on is that the weirdest thing about

54:07

an age gap of a man who's 40 and a woman who's

54:09

26 is that the man

54:12

who's 40 might get bored of her as

54:14

soon as she's over 30. It's not anything to

54:17

do with her because she is probably absolutely fine

54:19

and great. In

54:21

terms of you don't think she's vulnerable to anything that's

54:23

fine. I don't think you are. I think when

54:26

you're under 20 I think you've got a little bit of

54:28

like a okay. Yeah. But I'm

54:30

assuming someone in the... You think that once the

54:32

girls are in their mid-20s in terms of the

54:34

amount of damage any man can inflict on her

54:36

it is age neutral. Listen

54:39

I've got... Like a 25 year old is equally as likely

54:41

to traumatize, gaslight, rape and

54:44

or kill her as a 55 year old.

54:47

I can't speak for every single human interaction in

54:49

the world but on a fairly fundamental level I

54:51

don't consider a man in his 40s to be

54:53

any more dangerous than a man in his mid-20s

54:56

and I don't consider a woman in her mid-20s

54:59

to be lacking the

55:01

basic skills needed to handle. Yeah.

55:03

I do think that... I think at that point we reach

55:05

age and childhood. Post 25 which is why Lynn and Audrey

55:08

Capri won't date them. As

55:11

I say so when someone seven years old for

55:14

me is like well you know we're a different

55:16

generation I'm like oh fuck off. Oh shut up.

55:18

Shut up. What are you on? And

55:21

also why are you dating me if that's the case? The

55:23

thing that I find troubling about that sort of thing though

55:25

is that you know

55:27

so we're in our

55:29

30s right and so the

55:34

the divorces are coming around do you know what

55:36

I mean? You know what they probably are aren't

55:38

they? Yeah. I feel like I've not hit them

55:40

quite yet. Yeah but our single friends are more

55:42

and more like I have got a couple of

55:44

friends who are dating people who are

55:47

divorced or whatever and

55:50

so I think what's gonna be the

55:52

next challenge for our specific generation is that

55:54

our friends our female friends are gonna start

55:56

dating guys in their 40s and 50s and

55:58

they're nothing wrong with that at

56:00

all and we can totally see what they would do it except

56:02

for the fact that part of me is

56:05

like oh you are taking that man out of

56:07

the dating pool for a woman's

56:09

own age. There's something in the sort

56:11

of like free range. No you're

56:13

right and I think probably the worst thing about

56:15

age difference relationships is that she less to do

56:17

with the age difference and more to do with

56:20

that and the fact that it tends

56:22

to happen in majority in only one

56:24

direction which is that very few men

56:27

or date older women. Oh yeah and

56:30

it's still an enormous like maybe

56:32

taboo is too strong a word but in terms of

56:35

like people be like oh well how's that gonna work

56:37

when she's 16 you're 51 or whatever you

56:39

know. It's so much more shocking and I think I

56:42

totally believe in my point of neutrality of age

56:45

at a certain age however

56:47

I do also fully acknowledge that

56:50

I mean even now I've had this

56:53

conversation certain down the pub in

56:55

my workplace where I've had

56:57

conversations with male colleagues who are not like you

56:59

know just people I work with being like oh

57:02

you know I just can't find any woman who

57:04

are just like mature enough for me and I've

57:06

had to literally say to them how old are

57:08

you? and they're like 34 and I'm like a

57:10

hundred percent bet that your maximum age on Hinge

57:12

is 27 and they're like no no like show

57:15

me show me your maximum age on Hinge and

57:17

it's always 27 like it's always like yeah they

57:19

just always put their age younger and I'm like

57:21

if you want to if you're complaining about people

57:23

not feeling like in

57:25

my future enough but everyone in Hinge is 23 and you're

57:27

34 there's a

57:30

really simple solve for that and you could

57:32

just open up. Yeah we

57:34

all know what their argument is though. What

57:37

is their argument? Oh children

57:39

thing. The children thing. Of course of course

57:41

yes I'd forgotten about that. I've been on

57:43

those apps in the time. There's

57:46

a part of the movie where she

57:48

is talking about her where she's engaging

57:50

in being a writer for a while

57:53

and she talks about this is

57:55

in her flaxid and dick

57:58

sort of article that she writes. Yeah. There's

58:01

a bit where she's talking

58:04

about a

58:06

friend of hers who... Oh, I

58:09

don't know why I'm mincing my words in

58:11

the podcast at this point. Her

58:15

friend of hers enjoys her partner ramming

58:17

his dick really violently into her mouth

58:19

kind of thing. And

58:21

she basically is weighing

58:24

up whether or

58:26

not it's like feminist to have desires

58:29

or sex or whatever that is

58:31

so subjugating.

58:34

Just read Catherine Angel's Unmastered. I know.

58:37

And just put a sock in it, babe. Like, sorry. I

58:40

know, I felt it like that as well.

58:42

I was like, oh, are we... like, does

58:44

every generation of women have to have that

58:46

conversation about like having sex that isn't necessarily

58:48

like feminist or

58:50

whatever? It's like, desire is such a

58:52

prickly and weird thing. Like,

58:55

does it have to be quantified like

58:57

a Victorian fucking naturalist and labeled and

58:59

whatever? And it just made me feel a bit depressed. I

59:02

felt... Yeah, no, I think seeing that

59:04

second time, I felt depressed thinking about that because I

59:07

do feel like surely we're past

59:09

that. Yeah. On some spiritual

59:12

level of understanding that you can be

59:16

a person who desires equality in

59:18

the world, but also enjoy power

59:20

play. Yeah. In a sexual setting. Do

59:22

you think that like... Yeah, and

59:25

to me that feels pretty obvious too. But

59:27

then we have both read Unmastered by Catherine

59:29

Angel. Yeah. A fantastic book on exactly

59:31

that topic. Other things I

59:33

enjoyed in this film. Mm-hmm. The

59:36

Winnie the Pooh-ing. Winnie the Pooh-ing me. How

59:40

often do you see a man

59:43

wearing his t-shirt with his wiener out?

59:46

It's very movie. In film. It's a

59:48

very movie move. It's a

59:50

Tres-mo-bee. Tres-mo-bee. And I was like,

59:52

oh, Winnie the Pooh-ing, or Porky Piggy. And you said

59:55

to me, it's great that we have two words for

59:57

that in the English language, isn't it? Yeah,

59:59

two I can't... cartoon characters who are

1:00:01

famous and shorthand for wearing a t-shirt nothing

1:00:03

else. There is nothing funny at the time

1:00:05

for a man when he's pooing. I know

1:00:07

it really takes their power away. It does.

1:00:09

You know what I once laughed at a

1:00:11

man for doing that and he got really

1:00:14

really annoyed at me. I

1:00:18

was like sorry you're wandering around the house

1:00:20

in a t-shirt with your dick out it's

1:00:22

really funny and he was like he felt

1:00:24

very masculine. Yeah they hate when you do

1:00:27

that. But also you come

1:00:29

on. Come on. You've got 20,000

1:00:31

pairs of pants. Just

1:00:34

put them on. Yeah I didn't know it was funny.

1:00:37

You asked me to remind you of this and I

1:00:39

know what it means but

1:00:41

you've asked me to say roommate phase. Caroline

1:00:44

has a theory and I wrote that down. Yeah and

1:00:46

actually yes this connects to earlier on thank you for

1:00:48

reminding me of this. Which

1:00:50

is Julie when

1:00:53

she is losing heart with her relationship

1:00:55

with Axel. Yeah. And

1:00:58

I do think this is there are

1:01:00

very rare instances wherein a movie

1:01:04

breakup is a bad idea. You know

1:01:06

what I mean? And I actually really love this movie

1:01:08

for exploring the idea that somebody has

1:01:10

essentially very flippantly decided to break up

1:01:12

with someone they've been with for years.

1:01:14

Who truly loves and understands them. Or

1:01:16

hours. Nine

1:01:18

Norwegian days. And

1:01:23

they flippantly decides to break up with somebody.

1:01:25

Because of several things they're kind of nigglingly upset

1:01:28

about but they don't really have the language or

1:01:30

tools to confront them or make it better. And

1:01:32

so therefore they just sort of hook

1:01:34

all their ambitions onto a new

1:01:36

partner. Swing onto them and

1:01:38

then bring all their baggage with them. And that's sort

1:01:41

of wherever you go there you are. Right? Yeah. That's

1:01:43

what I took from that. And I do

1:01:45

think this this breakup is framed as being kind of

1:01:47

a sour thing. And there is a sense with these

1:01:49

characters that they have lost a lot

1:01:51

by breaking up with each other. And I wanted

1:01:53

to invoke. I do think this is a

1:01:56

symptom often suffered by people who are

1:01:58

extremely high. half and or

1:02:00

very bright, but with a lot of squandered potential,

1:02:02

which is very much our Julie character. Whereas

1:02:05

an inability to survive the

1:02:08

roommate phase. And

1:02:10

the roommate phase is a phase,

1:02:12

I think, that where you

1:02:15

get in a relationship with somebody, you're absolutely crazy about them.

1:02:18

You have your, obviously your courtship, which is

1:02:20

very sexy, and then you move in together.

1:02:23

And often that's incredibly sexy in a different

1:02:25

way. It's, you know, look, we're painting a

1:02:27

shelf and we're wearing dungarees and we're listening

1:02:29

to Motown and all that kind of stuff.

1:02:31

I'll show you that on time. Yes, I

1:02:33

was thinking, I was just immediately thinking of

1:02:35

that. Yeah. And then... The

1:02:37

weird painting snog scene. The weird painting

1:02:40

snog scene. And then I would say

1:02:42

between a three to

1:02:44

four year, two to four

1:02:46

year bracket after that, after the

1:02:48

move in phase, the

1:02:50

roommate phase occurs. And

1:02:53

this is often characterized by people beginning

1:02:55

to live more separate lives, people getting

1:02:57

more distant, people feeling essentially that they

1:02:59

are in a relationship with somebody,

1:03:01

but they are truly just their roommate. And they just

1:03:03

sort of clock in with them and they're like, oh,

1:03:06

hey, I went shopping, you owe me 20 quid for

1:03:08

the higher car kind of thing. And

1:03:11

I think this is... And

1:03:13

we've all been through roommate phase. And

1:03:15

I think... But not everyone comes out the other side.

1:03:18

But everyone comes out the other side. And I think

1:03:21

often that is people who, like our friend

1:03:23

Julie, put all of their hopes and aspirations

1:03:25

because the career stuff hasn't quite worked out,

1:03:27

the big life stuff hasn't quite worked out.

1:03:29

So they're putting all of it into having

1:03:31

this really intimate, exciting personal life. And so

1:03:33

they can't survive the roommate phase because what

1:03:36

the roommate phase is there for, it's really

1:03:38

important to have the roommate phase because you

1:03:40

need to have a moment of distance after

1:03:42

the moment of intensity wears off. So you

1:03:44

can remember what your life actually is, who

1:03:46

your friends are, visiting your moment

1:03:49

the weekend, like having career aspirations, going to

1:03:51

a boring work thing because you have to

1:03:53

make connections. All these things happen and the

1:03:55

relationship has to contract as a result. And

1:03:58

there's no shame in having a roommate phase. But I

1:04:00

think the thing is you need to

1:04:02

come out the other side of the roommate phase You

1:04:04

find a balance and then that's generally what you have

1:04:06

the conversations That's like we need to make time for

1:04:08

each other. We have special holidays. We have special date

1:04:10

nights We need to do stuff and not forget each

1:04:12

other. I love this theory. Thank you I think this

1:04:14

is a very powerful theory and there's

1:04:17

lots of like very hot cool people who

1:04:19

have an inability to survive the roommate phase

1:04:21

Yeah Oh,

1:04:24

I feel like I could I could I could

1:04:27

ruminate on that for some time That

1:04:30

I really I really struck me very I

1:04:32

think it's very true because it is it's

1:04:34

real test of a relationship And yeah, almost

1:04:36

probably one of the things I imagine happens

1:04:38

is That sometimes

1:04:40

you go into the roommate phase and one person is

1:04:42

really fucked off by it. Yeah Yeah,

1:04:45

and what often happens is that

1:04:48

the other person's like, oh great We're like, you

1:04:50

know, we're in room interface and that's fine. I'm

1:04:52

discovering my life and I have friends and I

1:04:54

live yeah The relationship must therefore naturally contract. Yeah

1:04:56

in order to make space for the other things that

1:04:58

are necessary to live around the blinds Like I hate

1:05:00

you now. Yeah, and the other person is like

1:05:02

I hate you now Oh and what

1:05:04

they do is and this happens a lot

1:05:07

when like maybe not everyone's communication skills are

1:05:09

Super developed or they have weird stuff with

1:05:11

their parents as our friend Julie does um

1:05:14

is that they don't they don't know

1:05:16

communicate and in

1:05:18

the gap where It

1:05:21

says the ratio the space relationship in their life has

1:05:23

contracted But the gap that has created instead of

1:05:25

filling with more life more hobbies more calling your

1:05:27

mom at the weekend She finds someone else

1:05:30

to fill it with she was or she fills

1:05:32

it with resentment and dread and like Many

1:05:34

people just like ascribing feelings to the person

1:05:37

they're with that are in bad faith. Yes

1:05:41

It's a lot It

1:05:44

is a lot. Oh god this theory really

1:05:46

holds water. I think I think I

1:05:50

think I mean I just think it's a truth. I just

1:05:52

thought a theory. I think it's a truth of life Yeah,

1:05:55

I think I I think I could be I think this

1:05:57

because Of all my friends I

1:05:59

I I think I'm the one in the longest

1:06:01

relationship who's not in their 60s. And

1:06:04

the... Yeah, I know

1:06:06

a couple of people have been in relationships similar

1:06:08

to you. Yeah. A time stamp on it, but...

1:06:10

And so as a result, when you're in the

1:06:12

mess... Also the only one of those... ...relationships

1:06:16

of longevity... Oh, one of only two, I

1:06:18

know. Who don't have children, which adds a

1:06:20

whole extra... That adds a whole extra layer.

1:06:22

...relay phase, which is the co-parenting... Co-parenting

1:06:25

roommates is this category I do not know about yet. Yeah,

1:06:27

no, you don't know about that. When I do, I will

1:06:29

tell you my missives. But for now, I

1:06:31

just have this, this level of experience. And

1:06:35

I think I'm often in the position as a

1:06:37

result where people are confiding in me their worries

1:06:39

about their relationship hitting the roommate phase. And

1:06:42

I always have to say to them, you will just

1:06:44

sort of grow past this, you know? Or

1:06:46

you won't. Or you won't, yeah. There's a bit of

1:06:48

a kind of... Yeah. It's

1:06:51

a necessary gauntlet. Yeah, she doesn't survive

1:06:53

the roommate phase. With either boyfriend. Do

1:06:56

you think... Question, question,

1:06:58

question, question. So obviously at the end of

1:07:00

this film, Axel is dead. Mm-hmm. And other

1:07:03

man, who to my mind looks like a

1:07:05

sort of Norwegian Prince William, but not in

1:07:07

a good way. Einver, Ein-nolven... It'd

1:07:11

be into the knee. Yeah. She's

1:07:14

with neither of them. Yeah. Because Axel's dead

1:07:16

and... Ee is... Ee

1:07:19

is married to a woman who takes photos of

1:07:21

who they've got baby together. Yeah. Do

1:07:24

you think, in the

1:07:26

lore of this film, if Axel doesn't die

1:07:28

of pancreatic cancer, they stay together? Yeah. Or

1:07:31

do you think they were always going to break up? Um...

1:07:35

Do they get back together naturally, do you think? In

1:07:37

a world where he doesn't get diagnosed with pancreatic

1:07:39

cancer, do they get

1:07:42

back together? No. What

1:07:44

do you think? I don't think they do either.

1:07:46

Why don't you think? Because I think for all

1:07:48

that they got through the... They had the roommate

1:07:50

phase and all of it went wrong. The

1:07:54

way in which they reunite during

1:07:56

his illness and death... ...seems to

1:07:58

be... to me like

1:08:01

it has the energy of her going it's

1:08:05

a kind of safe recognition

1:08:08

because she knows that

1:08:10

it won't last exactly she's able

1:08:12

to be very candid with

1:08:14

him yeah she's posted feelings into

1:08:16

him because she knows that

1:08:18

he's not going to be there yeah for

1:08:20

the long haul and i

1:08:23

think there are genuine things about him

1:08:25

that actually don't quite

1:08:27

work for her yeah and

1:08:32

yeah i agree with you i'm

1:08:34

not sure what this film is trying to say to

1:08:36

us what

1:08:38

i kind of suspect it is like oh but

1:08:41

what if i died then wouldn't you miss

1:08:43

me yeah i think on some inadvertent level

1:08:45

it's also being like but what

1:08:47

if you died and that was actually a massive

1:08:50

release from regret for the rest of her life

1:08:53

oh gosh i do think it might be

1:08:55

there because i can't regret having not stayed

1:08:57

with someone who died yeah because

1:08:59

i was still there from at the end and i still

1:09:01

cared for him and we still had this lovely moment but

1:09:03

i never have to think about the rest of life and

1:09:06

she never has that kind of ghost or she might have

1:09:08

that ghost life of their married

1:09:10

and have kids but she will always know in

1:09:12

a way that someone who just broke up or

1:09:14

someone who didn't die wouldn't know that

1:09:16

that could never have happened there

1:09:19

is no world in which she has axles babies

1:09:21

and they get married and grow old together because

1:09:23

he dies and he's like 45 and

1:09:25

when he dies um i do think you're totally

1:09:27

right and i think that she is somebody who

1:09:30

is so um rudderless and

1:09:32

so free floating that

1:09:34

um she's somebody who divine intervention

1:09:36

really speaks to and there's nothing

1:09:39

more divine intervention than your ex-boyfriend

1:09:41

getting in contact or you running

1:09:43

into your ex-boyfriend's friend at your

1:09:45

bookstore and finding out he's his

1:09:47

terminal illness reconnecting with him and

1:09:49

then deciding he was actually loved

1:09:52

your life all along and

1:09:54

then you then you'd like like re-establish your

1:09:56

connection with him and inherit his class Look,

1:10:00

we all know how expensive Norway is and

1:10:03

like that Oslo flat. There's

1:10:05

a little bit, there's a tiny bit that goes

1:10:07

like, is there something very freeing about that for

1:10:09

her? Yeah. I feel like I'm very freeing about

1:10:11

being like, well, I've done all my loving for

1:10:14

my life. I've done all my romantic loving. I've

1:10:16

found the love of my life. Sadly he died. Fortunately,

1:10:19

I inherited this beautiful light from flat in the middle

1:10:21

of Oslo. Oh. There's

1:10:24

a really cynical reason. There's a quite, it's quite

1:10:26

cynical. And I find it more interesting the idea

1:10:28

of like, she's just somebody who's like, can kind

1:10:30

of convince herself that like, this is my path.

1:10:32

Is she the worst person in the world? Because

1:10:34

she, because at the end she's very happily single.

1:10:36

Yeah. Uh-huh. There's

1:10:39

something very cynical about it, which is maybe

1:10:41

undisputed. Well yeah, because the

1:10:43

one who is happy and married

1:10:46

is actually quite unhappy. Yeah. She's quite

1:10:48

an insecure actress who she's taking into the photography at

1:10:50

the end and she's just like, I'm shit. And she's

1:10:52

like, yeah, maybe you are. Yeah.

1:10:55

And our friend Yulia is

1:10:59

nearly pregnant, but again, divine intervention.

1:11:02

Yeah. Intervenes in the most

1:11:04

biologically inaccurate scene I've seen.

1:11:07

When you pointed this out, I was like, oh my

1:11:09

God, you're so rise. All right. Tell me

1:11:11

this thing. We're watching Yulia's feet

1:11:13

in the shower. Yeah. She's

1:11:15

showering. Spaty, spaty. We're looking at her

1:11:18

feet in the white tiled shower and I was

1:11:20

like, oh, I remember now what happens.

1:11:22

I remember there was just like the thin trail of blood

1:11:24

down her, the inside of her thigh and we've established earlier

1:11:26

that she's pregnant and she's not sure if she can keep

1:11:28

the baby. And it's just like,

1:11:30

it just doesn't happen though, does it, in the

1:11:32

shower? Like, so true. I mean, I guess probably

1:11:35

from a very, very heavy coat, but. I

1:11:38

have never, in all my like, like

1:11:40

many, many years of menstruating. Yeah. It

1:11:43

has moments and it's, that's never happened. It's

1:11:45

so rare that some people actually drip down

1:11:47

your leg in the shower. Right?

1:11:50

Because I think the way water works is some weird

1:11:52

thing where it tends to. Yeah.

1:11:55

It always just like, it's always like this weird

1:11:58

ink blot that's sour between your thighs. that

1:12:00

we all know that. Yes, yes.

1:12:03

Maybe she said that really well. I don't know,

1:12:05

maybe she did something we didn't see off-screen but

1:12:07

yeah it was a very like, did

1:12:09

you check out with women first? Totally.

1:12:12

It really puts me in mind if I remember

1:12:14

watching a director's comment she would lean on to

1:12:16

them years ago and she told this is a

1:12:18

scene in early season one of girls where a

1:12:21

character is getting fingered and then she says she

1:12:23

gets a period or whatever and she said the

1:12:25

props guy who just brought like buckets of like

1:12:28

horror movie corn syrup blood and she had to

1:12:30

like sit him down and talk to her but

1:12:32

talking like the sort of viscosity of menstrual blood

1:12:34

and I was like oh I'm so glad we

1:12:37

have her I'm so sad we don't have 10,000

1:12:39

more of her. Right, more of her

1:12:42

but again the viscosity of this butt

1:12:44

is very... Yeah

1:12:46

it's like a head wound or something

1:12:48

you know. Exactly, it's very like you've

1:12:50

sliced your thigh open on some glass

1:12:52

it's not very... Totally. Your uterus has

1:12:55

decided to Disband.

1:12:58

Disband! The company that it's formed.

1:13:02

The fellowship is formed.

1:13:05

The fellowship! That's

1:13:07

not what it felt like. But again

1:13:10

her little face is just like wait. There

1:13:14

is a reading of this film which is that

1:13:16

actually it's... she's the worst

1:13:18

person in the world ironically because

1:13:20

she gets all of that out of the way very

1:13:22

early and then she gets to just live her life.

1:13:24

Yeah. Not thinking about it. Yeah

1:13:28

great. Which I loved by the way. I love

1:13:30

that for her. Yeah, yeah. But I just didn't

1:13:32

quite believe... I didn't believe that. Or maybe completely

1:13:37

grasp whether or not the film was trying to

1:13:39

tell me that these two people... that what this

1:13:41

movie is actually about is I think

1:13:44

maybe in the director's vision is

1:13:46

about lost

1:13:48

love and regret and

1:13:51

finding out too late what you lost out on.

1:13:53

Which is a completely fine thing to make a

1:13:55

movie about but I didn't quite believe it. I

1:13:57

actually think it's more about... someone

1:14:01

post-rationalizing their own life in order

1:14:03

to give it meaning and like taking

1:14:06

these moments of divine intervention and

1:14:09

turning it into their life's meaning and

1:14:11

if we're more about that I would give it 10,000

1:14:13

stars I

1:14:15

would instead like give it a humble four stars. I'd

1:14:18

like to offer an analogy. Go on. Which

1:14:21

is about this film

1:14:23

and Yulie's story and the failed

1:14:26

entertainment chain HMV which

1:14:29

I think is relevant to this film. And

1:14:31

to my heart yes. And to your heart as a

1:14:33

former HMV employee there

1:14:36

is also a moment in this film where Axel, he

1:14:38

of the butthole drawing, cartooning. The words

1:14:40

most iconic butthole or? The words most iconic butthole

1:14:42

talks about how sad it is that he grew

1:14:44

up in a time when you could hold culture

1:14:46

in your hands and you'd like go and do

1:14:48

a record shot and like buy

1:14:50

vinyl and buy CD-ROMs or whatever it was

1:14:53

you were buying back then. He's the same

1:14:55

age as me. I mean I do romanticize

1:14:57

that and it was magical so it was

1:14:59

magical but he does the whole thing and she

1:15:01

in fairness to her goes oh yeah I kind

1:15:03

of like books and he's like yeah and it's

1:15:05

a very beautiful. Yeah. But what I

1:15:08

always think about when people romanticize HMV which I totally

1:15:10

understand because it's a beautiful thing that happened in the

1:15:12

past is that

1:15:14

all the people who romanticize it didn't

1:15:16

go to HMV for like 20 years

1:15:18

and that's why HMV shut down. Do

1:15:21

you know what I mean? Like you can love

1:15:24

it in the same way that I enjoyed HMV when

1:15:26

I was in my teens but

1:15:28

I could not tell you the last time I

1:15:31

set foot in a physical record store.

1:15:33

I'm not a big music person and

1:15:35

there is this kind of like little

1:15:37

thing this little thing of like being able to

1:15:39

romanticize the idea of something. That

1:15:41

you killed. That you actually had no

1:15:44

real investment in in terms of your time

1:15:46

and your money. Yeah. And

1:15:49

there's just some there's just some little parallel.

1:15:51

Oh I don't know if that's fair. There's

1:15:53

a little parallel there in my

1:15:56

mind between like well

1:15:58

she regrets. the relationship and

1:16:00

she's really missing it now it's gone

1:16:02

I'm like yeah she misses HMB too

1:16:05

but she wasn't shopping at HMB because she

1:16:07

didn't need HMB and that comes

1:16:09

HMB. Oh I understand the analogy. Yeah the analogy

1:16:12

is you can miss a thing in a kind

1:16:14

of like that was wonderful at that point in

1:16:16

my life yeah whilst also recognizing that the reason

1:16:18

that the technology is moved on is because you

1:16:21

had no use for it in your present life.

1:16:24

Oh I see. Does that make sense? Yes I do

1:16:26

get it now. I

1:16:29

think I take HMB

1:16:31

personally and possibly I

1:16:34

over invested. But HMB

1:16:36

is my... I have

1:16:38

this thing whenever... occasionally

1:16:40

I come across an old man shouting at this

1:16:42

guy who's like oh we don't buy physical records

1:16:45

anymore and I'm like well no did you when

1:16:47

did you last buy one? Yeah. When did you

1:16:49

personally do it? No one does it and that's

1:16:51

why they went down. No you know you're right.

1:16:53

It's not the young who did it. It's everybody.

1:16:55

Yeah. We all stopped buying records at HMB. And

1:16:58

why we stopped buying records at

1:17:00

HMB? Because it's a better technology

1:17:03

now and it's easier and it's

1:17:05

cheaper and it's smaller

1:17:07

and that's okay. It's okay

1:17:09

for things to change and it's okay to

1:17:11

not have HMB and it's okay to not

1:17:14

date Axel. I

1:17:18

disagree. I think it's not okay to not

1:17:20

have HMB and I think it's not okay

1:17:22

to not date Axel. I

1:17:26

think she should have tried to survive the roommate phase

1:17:28

harder because I think he was like ultimately they had

1:17:30

a pretty good relationship. But you're saying you

1:17:33

don't think they would end up together? No but

1:17:35

basically I think if she had managed, if she

1:17:37

had found the internal strength to muscle through the

1:17:39

roommate phase I think she could have

1:17:41

made a decent life about Ma'am. I think she

1:17:43

would have like... Okay. No that's fair. That's fair. I

1:17:45

think he definitely would have been somewhat of a negligent

1:17:47

parent but I also think if

1:17:49

you clipped him around the ear enough he would have like... do

1:17:52

you know what I mean? Yeah. I

1:17:55

think this is something very 1967 feminist. Oh my god.

1:17:57

Please do. only

1:18:00

jump to the bar that you raised for them.

1:18:02

And like, if you don't think a man will be

1:18:04

a good co-parent, make him one. Just

1:18:07

like, just don't care anymore whether

1:18:09

you seem shrill or bossy or whatever.

1:18:11

I just keep yelling. And

1:18:14

act as if you've already got your way and be

1:18:17

a little cunt. Have your

1:18:19

brat girl somewhere for the rest of your life.

1:18:21

Men only ever jump to the

1:18:23

bar, the height that you raise

1:18:25

and I'm sorry. That's just how it

1:18:27

is. I've

1:18:30

had four glasses of wine. I

1:18:33

think that's a really good cake. You want

1:18:35

him to be a good co-parent. I think he had the raw material to

1:18:37

be a good, as excellent as self-sizing when

1:18:39

she talks about keeping the baby. She's

1:18:42

like, is he kind? And she's like, yeah.

1:18:44

And he's like, it'll be fine. Like it will be. It

1:18:47

will be. I

1:18:50

love this. I think this film has sparked a lot of-

1:18:53

I know. In spirited debate. Such

1:18:55

spirited debate this evening. Spirited breakfast debate in the

1:18:58

continental garbages. I know. I just want everyone to

1:19:00

know these are just musings. I don't like it.

1:19:02

These are strong opinions, lightly held. Yeah, we don't

1:19:04

have, we've not really thought about this. We've just

1:19:06

watched the film. I'm just spooching around. We watched

1:19:09

the film. We ate a delicious salad that you

1:19:11

made. Thanks. We ate a lovely

1:19:13

ice cream. We

1:19:16

drank a lovely wine. We're having a

1:19:18

great day. We're having a great day. Is there anything else

1:19:20

on the list? Do you know what?

1:19:22

I think you might have exhausted my list of notes. Uh.

1:19:26

Oh, do you know what? I will just end on, and you

1:19:28

can cut this out because you might find it very boring, but

1:19:30

it is a thing that really

1:19:32

pisses me off. It's when anybody

1:19:35

uses life expectancy. Oh

1:19:38

yes, yeah, this is annoying. Go on. Can we just

1:19:40

do this? Can we just say it for the record?

1:19:43

Okay. For anyone who does the thing

1:19:45

where they're trying to be clever and they're like, and

1:19:47

of course, life expectancy for women in that time is

1:19:49

35. When they're talking about the

1:19:51

distance past. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and

1:19:53

I've had it so many times. People say like, yeah,

1:19:55

everyone probably died at 20. So literally.

1:19:57

And I'm just like, at that moment, I'm like,

1:20:00

you're so. your arse. You are showing your

1:20:02

big dumb arse right now because

1:20:04

that is life expectancy at

1:20:06

birth. Did

1:20:10

that really close my microphone? No you did it to the

1:20:12

other side of your jacket which is why it was confusing.

1:20:15

At birth. But you're

1:20:17

right my jacket's moving.

1:20:20

But yeah anyway I just like everyone to know

1:20:22

on this podcast if you're talking about life expectancy

1:20:24

and you hear that life expectancy was really low

1:20:26

in the past you must simply remember that infant

1:20:29

mortality was very high and actually if you

1:20:31

survived being a baby you probably lived for

1:20:33

the most part for quite a long time.

1:20:35

Yeah probably like 60 odd right? 60 70

1:20:37

same as everyone else. So anyone's like yeah

1:20:39

life expectancy in like Tudor times is 35

1:20:41

and everyone died when they were 35. They

1:20:44

didn't. Yeah I just

1:20:46

think someone needs to do a

1:20:49

big like education piece for film,

1:20:51

TV and just general life because

1:20:53

I cannot sit like in the

1:20:55

pub again or watch a TV show again and be

1:20:57

like yeah well of course everyone was dead by the

1:20:59

time they were 25. They weren't. But they

1:21:01

do it in this film. It's so weird.

1:21:03

It's really weird that that persists actually because

1:21:05

even if you look at any like Shakespeare play

1:21:08

or whatever it's like there are old people in

1:21:10

that. All people are around. All the

1:21:12

people who were observing the elderly for such a long time.

1:21:14

King Lear was about an old guy. It wasn't about a

1:21:17

35 year old fucking guy with a

1:21:19

dad bod who fell off about his

1:21:22

daughters like. You

1:21:27

were saying there have

1:21:29

been elderly people. There

1:21:32

are just people need to accept that there

1:21:34

just have been elderly people. They haven't been

1:21:36

that rare. No. They've been around for a

1:21:38

really long time. Yeah. The old have always

1:21:40

been with us. Totally. I think people try

1:21:42

and persist with that stuff because of a

1:21:45

wider thing where we like try to sort

1:21:47

of frame the elderly

1:21:49

as being a new problem. Where

1:21:53

it's like no. No. Because again

1:21:56

to be a bit ten four and happy

1:21:58

and again I've had four one. It's like we live

1:22:01

in this like like productive productivity obsessed thing where it's

1:22:03

like what we do with the elderly they can't even

1:22:05

work It's like we do what we always do be

1:22:07

giving my life shift on a Sunday And then we

1:22:09

had them do what they want and sort of keep

1:22:11

half an eye on the kids We

1:22:15

don't warehouse them in the BFI

1:22:21

They're just there to slap knees And

1:22:24

they've been doing that for thousands of years

1:22:26

There's been no lack of them and

1:22:29

I cannot With a

1:22:31

world that I think we go full circle on that

1:22:33

It's so great That's

1:22:35

it, that's what I want to end on. I'll end on

1:22:37

the fact that if you really want to get into it

1:22:39

Have a little tiny Google take about three seconds healthy

1:22:42

life expectancy Yeah, has not

1:22:44

changed in quite a long time except

1:22:46

in Norway where they say it's their eternity Or

1:22:51

you can be four years old or 57 and no one will

1:22:53

know Another distracting

1:22:55

thing about the age gap relationship is it not

1:22:57

being a visible age gap Like

1:23:00

yeah, look like about the same age

1:23:03

Yeah, they did actually yeah, and they also really

1:23:07

make no commitment to makeup

1:23:11

Other than making her hair blonde a bit and

1:23:13

then pink bit and then yeah short again Yeah,

1:23:17

but like, you know, they could have done touch

1:23:19

more the classic like girl doesn't know

1:23:22

she is Changing very much. We're being very mean, but

1:23:24

I think we're just being sassy. We really liked it

1:23:26

I think we're being sassy in the way that it

1:23:28

was sassy about a thing that you're fond of Yeah,

1:23:30

exactly and also it's a weird vibe to invite

1:23:32

your friend over drink a bottle and a half

1:23:35

of wine and then watch quite a sad movie

1:23:38

Yeah, no, I think as I as I say

1:23:40

as I wrote these other group hang this movie

1:23:43

I wrote the intro looking at the quotes. I

1:23:45

was like, I may have misjudged this film But

1:23:47

listen, it was in the requests as well No

1:23:50

loaded in the press and I'm really glad I watched it

1:23:52

like I yeah This sounds

1:23:54

so fucking trite, but there is something

1:23:57

really refreshing about like I've never been to Oslo and

1:23:59

I have no ground on Norwegian customs

1:24:01

or anything but it was refreshing to

1:24:03

be like oh people's poems are the

1:24:05

fucking same everywhere you know yeah they

1:24:08

are also it's

1:24:10

not so different from us another

1:24:13

tiny little bit I liked was

1:24:15

the second boyfriend whose

1:24:17

name we don't know he works in

1:24:20

some coffee shop and he worked at

1:24:22

some what

1:24:28

is clearly like a some

1:24:30

sort of new build barcode or something yeah

1:24:32

and inside joke we didn't get yeah and

1:24:35

I love the inclusion of an inside joke

1:24:37

I don't get like it's really like my

1:24:39

guilty confession is that I actually like barcode

1:24:41

and I think it's nice it's modern or

1:24:43

whatever and everyone hates it and

1:24:45

like every world city

1:24:47

has like a gross building that some

1:24:50

people are strangely fond of that's nice

1:24:52

yeah that's a very cute film yeah

1:24:54

that's just how architectural works I understand

1:24:57

I understand as a

1:24:59

person who does not anything to do speaking of

1:25:01

explaining things we understand I got a DM in

1:25:03

the sentimental garbage this week is being like just

1:25:05

saying I love you girls but you do not

1:25:07

know what shortly I guess we know

1:25:10

okay I thought we knew it from the

1:25:19

good year

1:25:21

no I did not ask any further questions

1:25:23

because my feelings were coming but yeah

1:25:26

sorry lady we don't know I thought it

1:25:28

was yeah I thought we had

1:25:31

a pretty good grasp but no I'm not

1:25:33

quite embarrassed artificially like reduced

1:25:36

the value of shares by dumping on the

1:25:38

market and then you bought them

1:25:40

back but maybe that's just what happens when muscle

1:25:42

products and that could be

1:25:44

wrong but it's really great you'll be pleased to

1:25:46

hear is that neither of us work in

1:25:49

finance yeah luckily global

1:25:51

economies are not we're in the

1:25:54

talking shit business we're not in

1:25:56

the shorting people business but also

1:25:58

I believe short selling isn't a

1:26:00

thing that's good. Yeah. Not

1:26:02

if I know anything about that. It is

1:26:04

bad. It's a bad thing. And I'm sure

1:26:06

if it's not bad this lady will correct

1:26:09

it. It's naughty and we shan't do it.

1:26:13

It's a promise from us that we will

1:26:15

not be shorting. We're not going to short

1:26:17

anybody at any time soon. Because we're the

1:26:19

best people in the world. Join

1:26:22

us next week when we talk about other

1:26:24

good things. Other good things coming this way

1:26:26

soon. Hey

1:26:46

marketers, advertisers, and business owners. Find

1:26:49

yourself chatting up the same audience in the

1:26:51

same places using the same old lines. Maybe

1:26:54

it's time to podcast the net further to

1:26:56

catch your next customer. With

1:26:58

Acast, there's plenty of fish in the sea with more

1:27:00

than 100,000 podcasts and

1:27:03

millions of listeners. So there's a

1:27:05

perfect match for every business. Use

1:27:07

our ad platform to cast your net.

1:27:09

Then narrow down using targeting such as

1:27:11

demographic, show categories, audience segments, and more.

1:27:14

Find your match and reel them in. Advertise

1:27:16

on more than 100,000 podcasts with Acast.

1:27:20

Head to go.acast.com/closer to

1:27:23

get started.