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info, and for everyone's sake,

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please, don't give up caffeine! Hello

0:33

everyone, As you can see, I I

0:35

just can't help myself from participating in

0:37

the valiant of podcasting at the moment. the

0:40

though even I was quitting for

0:42

a little while, for a because while. of

0:44

all I love doing it doing

0:46

of all I have things to

0:48

promote, to promote, sell. sell. The first first of

0:50

which is my collaboration with Child, which

0:52

is which is sentimental garbage's first first

0:54

merchandise drawn. the The first time ever

0:56

done done t-shirts or totes or sweatshirts and we're doing with

0:58

100% of the of the profits to

1:01

the Ward Child. You but you can

1:03

get that on.com. We've already sold something

1:05

like 500. like 500 is which is

1:07

me to really I to keep

1:09

that going all throughout the Christmas

1:11

period. the If you order before If you

1:13

think December I think December 11th you can can get

1:15

it before Christmas but we're likely

1:17

to keep the campaign going in the

1:19

new year new year it does well

1:21

enough. enough. So help me. me. and make it it

1:24

too well enough get some more some

1:26

more money to this amazing,

1:28

amazing charity. The second second thing is am

1:30

am doing a gig at the

1:32

Union Chapel on February 6th. So please get your

1:34

please get your tickets to that.

1:36

We've got a couple left. left.

1:38

I think we're about 75 % sold

1:40

at at the moment, and those

1:42

tickets will go. yeah, get involved. And get

1:44

involved this please enjoy this kind of

1:46

next suite of episodes that we

1:48

have running over the Christmas period

1:50

that are mostly to do with

1:52

movie musicals. First, because I find... to

1:54

be musicals to be an incredibly Christmassy

1:56

thing without necessarily... necessarily being

1:59

Christmas movies. movies. second because I'm

2:01

kind of continuously inspired by the

2:03

idea that musicals are about things

2:05

coming together and right now the

2:07

world sort of feels like it's

2:09

all coming apart and we need

2:11

sort of reminders on how people

2:13

who are different can come together

2:16

to make amazing things. That's kind

2:18

of what I want to keep

2:20

in mind as I go forward

2:22

with this Christmas season and in

2:24

2025 to not lose hope and

2:26

to believe in the beliefs of

2:28

musicals as I go. Okay, that's

2:30

all for me. Enjoy today's episode.

2:36

Yeah. Hello and welcome sentimental garbage,

2:38

the podcast where we talk about

2:40

the culture we love that society

2:42

sometimes makes us feel ashamed of.

2:44

My name is Caroline and you

2:47

can stop my knife and fork

2:49

when I see a Christmas ham.

2:51

And joining me is get that

2:53

chubby communist girl off the show,

2:55

it's Ryan Farrell! Hi! Me, here

2:57

pork is ready! Your pork is

2:59

ready! Oh my God, I can't

3:02

believe it's taking me like fucking

3:04

200 episodes for number one to

3:06

get you on, number two to

3:08

cover hair spray. I know right?

3:10

It's a foundational garment. It just

3:12

feels like a very big day.

3:14

Oh great! It's a big day

3:17

because Silver's crying. Hearspray means a

3:19

lot to her too. It does

3:21

yeah. Yeah I guess this movie

3:23

has always just been such a

3:25

huge part of our friendship. We

3:27

met back in 2008 and I

3:30

think from the first time you

3:32

ever came around to my house

3:34

we watched hairspray and I mean

3:36

we worked upstairs in HMV where

3:38

it was exclusively the DVD section,

3:40

bar some specialist, music genres. Well

3:42

it was soundtracks right? Yeah so

3:45

basically we tormented everybody we worked

3:47

with with hair spray in the

3:49

best little whorehouse in Texas. Yeah

3:51

like it's funny to be doing

3:53

this about Christmas and with you

3:55

because like we met as Christmas

3:57

temps in HIV into the

4:00

like I remember

4:02

us. this being one of the

4:04

soundtracks we pulled out when we were on

4:06

the floor together and just like around, like

4:08

straightening up the DVD cases after work, getting

4:10

ready to. to close the shop, like listening

4:12

to You Can't Stop the Beat and listening

4:14

to all these like songs and then finally

4:16

you being like, I think one of our

4:18

first hangouts out of work was like, come

4:20

over to my house and we'll actually watch

4:22

it. that was like, that was like one

4:25

of our first hangouts. I think right Yeah

4:27

absolutely it's funny that you say

4:29

that now that you know a

4:31

huge part of you know as

4:33

first listening to Hairspray and the

4:35

soundtrack together was when we met

4:37

around Christmas and in you saying

4:39

that I've just realised that I've

4:41

somehow you know we You

4:43

know. compartmentalized

4:46

into a Christmas movie in my

4:48

life and so much so that when

4:50

I go home to Ireland for

4:52

Christmas it's become a tradition that me

4:54

and my little sister watch Hesbury

4:57

every year and I guess that's me

4:59

sort of carrying on something that's

5:01

always been important to us and sharing

5:03

that outwards with somebody else that

5:05

I love. yeah it's makes it so special,

5:07

do you think? like There aren't that

5:09

many musicals that were made during this period,

5:11

you know it feels like a really,

5:13

I know it might not seem it on

5:15

the surface, but it feels like a

5:17

really relevant musical to be covering. around

5:20

Wicked's release because it has a lot

5:22

in common. with Wicked feel thematically,

5:24

you know? Absolutely, I mean,

5:26

the very obvious

5:28

one is, you know,

5:31

overcoming adversity. yeah and you

5:33

know, triumphant above all.

5:35

But I think think it's

5:37

really interesting with Hairspray because You

5:40

know. I feel

5:42

like if it was released today

5:44

it would have had so

5:46

much more impact. But I

5:48

think when it was released

5:50

in 2007, musicals were kind of

5:52

owned by the Disney

5:54

factory so you had

5:56

high -skill musical which

5:59

by default. I think a lot

6:01

of people looked at Hairspray

6:03

when it came out and said

6:05

this is a came out and movie

6:07

but it deals with really

6:09

really heavy things. I mean even

6:11

in the opening number really heavy

6:13

know I mean showing opening number, know it's showing,

6:15

local bum bum or the Zakaf. a a

6:17

streaker in the old who lives next

6:19

door it very makes it very clear

6:21

that this is not a

6:23

children's movie it might be big

6:25

and big and I think that

6:27

that's more of a nod that that's

6:29

more of a nod to of the

6:31

50s and 60s rather

6:33

than rather than movie a

6:35

bright and and colourful for children.

6:38

Because like layers of layers of on

6:40

within Harris hair spray I I think

6:42

people often miss. it's like, I

6:44

often, to me it's kind me it's kind of

6:46

a litmus test when i meet someone

6:48

new and for some reason spray comes up

6:50

and like most people haven't seen it the

6:52

the people who have seen it have do

6:54

have an either they're obsessed with it they

6:57

get it they understand why it's like

6:59

hilarious and moving or whatever or they're just

7:01

like oh is that that weird musical

7:03

where Chival is in in drag reason reason? and like

7:05

how dare you speak of Edna

7:07

blad in that way that way? it's

7:09

like like, it's like, like kind of it

7:12

the jump it operates from this

7:14

place of like of like, like

7:16

it's based on the Waters movie, hair

7:18

spray. And like, John Waters is like a sort of

7:20

a sort of aesthetic that I respect,

7:22

but most of the films, like vast

7:24

majority find pretty hard to watch pretty hard

7:26

to watch, made to be like,

7:28

they're made to be like, in

7:31

an 80s midnight midnight screening in

7:33

some They're kind kind of like not

7:35

really meant for you to watch on DVD

7:37

at home alone or on streaming at

7:39

home alone or on streaming at home alone. Yeah, quite ugly Yeah,

7:41

they're ugly ugly. Yeah, they're movies. They're people

7:43

who have like lipstick on their people

7:46

who very much like a person

7:48

who's interested in like and like much like

7:50

a He's in the first number, like

7:52

good morning, Baltimore, when Tracy in the

7:54

gets up and goes to school. good morning

7:56

Baltimore, like good morning as an

7:58

opening number. It number. a kind

8:00

of cliche of what a of what

8:02

a musical is supposed to do. It's

8:04

like the kind of kind of the Here

8:07

song or the link. the beauty and the and

8:09

the beast. This is my small provincial

8:11

town. town. song it's like

8:13

it's like this we is where we

8:15

are the world to to introduce you to

8:17

all the characters you're gonna meet and

8:19

this is the vibe and here's how

8:21

people talk to each other here's how people talk

8:23

to like and like for like little like I'm this like

8:26

I'm this like self like little fat

8:28

girl who's kind of like just loves

8:30

dancing and and sort of think I'm sort

8:32

of weird for doing that my hair

8:34

is weird people think I'm weird is weird.

8:36

like I'm obsessed with everyone I love

8:38

everything I love the everything. I love the around

8:40

my feet. I love the I love who lives

8:42

next door. I love riding the garbage truck

8:45

on the way to school. truck on the way to

8:47

school. And herself with being like, yeah, I'm

8:49

from this like weird part of yeah, I'm

8:51

from this weird and I'm weird

8:53

to them. where everyone's it here, and

8:55

like, to them. But like, I so, here

8:57

hooray! like, Absolutely. mean, I that's that's

8:59

something know, every time it opens

9:01

up again, it always again it

9:03

me in straight pulls me in you

9:06

know, what you're seeing is, as

9:08

you said, you said Belle in Beauty and the

9:10

Beast the Beast, when she's singing

9:12

in her open a it's very

9:14

much very much this little town that

9:16

looks perfectly nice, but

9:18

nice but Tracy immediately knows knows

9:21

and the imperfections with

9:23

Baltimore and makes it

9:25

clear that she's going

9:27

to become going to spite of

9:29

this in but she's also going to

9:31

bring the town with her to bring

9:33

the think that's really interesting for

9:35

me really know for me a queer person

9:37

as grew up in a town

9:39

where I thought up in a town else

9:41

lies outside of this for me this

9:44

for me but Tracy in pursuit dreams and whatever

9:46

they are they are plans on

9:48

bringing Baltimore with her that making that

9:50

part of her success that's I just

9:52

think that's really beautiful a a really

9:54

nice message to open the the movie

9:56

on. and like even even though it is

9:58

steeped in all kind of like sort of

10:01

irony and sarcasm they're still just like

10:03

it's not a it's like it's not

10:05

sarcasm I don't know but there is

10:07

a kind of a darkness to it

10:10

that where it opens up right away

10:12

because like when you're doing the first

10:14

song in a musical there has to

10:16

be like a sense of this is

10:19

the tone kind of like yes it's

10:21

a 60s musical yes it's bright but

10:23

there's kind of an aginess to it

10:25

as well that you see throughout it.

10:28

But like I'm probably going too far

10:30

too far too soon like tell me

10:32

what the plot of hairspray of hairspray

10:34

is. I mean the plot essentially how

10:37

it begins is you have Tracy Turnblad

10:39

who is a plucky teenager in 1960s

10:41

Baltimore who lives, breathes and sheds the

10:43

Corny Collin show which is essentially a

10:46

really interesting dance show that seems to

10:48

feature all local celebrities who are also

10:50

attendees of her high school. Yeah, and

10:52

like, do that a thing? Do that

10:55

exist? That you would just, like, be

10:57

a part-time student and full-time dance celebrity

10:59

in your local town? Yeah, I mean,

11:01

it's bizarre because she really idolizes them

11:04

in a sort of, you know, a

11:06

movie star kind of way, but, you

11:08

know, she is in an English class

11:10

with some of them that, you know,

11:13

she could probably, you know. have a

11:15

chat with them quite easy, but you

11:17

know she has them up in this

11:19

pedestal and she has dreams of being

11:22

the next dancer in the Corny Collins

11:24

show. And tell me why is there

11:26

an opening on the Corny Collins show?

11:28

Well as we mentioned this isn't a

11:31

kid's movie because one of the dancers

11:33

has to take a nine month break

11:35

and it's heavily insinuated that she is

11:37

going through a teenage pregnancy in 1960s

11:40

Baltimore. It's so good. But like the

11:42

way they sort of like set up

11:44

the Corny Collins show is so again,

11:46

like I think you know, you do

11:49

sort of have to get the sense

11:51

of humor and the intentionality that the

11:53

musical is working within because it's like,

11:56

again, it's all bright, you've got Zachafron,

11:58

you've got Brittany Snow. are these big

12:00

teen stars, you've got James Martin, who

12:02

plays Courtney Collins and is like the

12:05

host of the show, and then they're

12:07

doing the, Meet the nicest kids in

12:09

town, and you're like, wow, like, it's

12:11

like any 60s movie, it's like that

12:14

thing you do or something, it's something

12:16

that's, or like, La Bamba, like, it's

12:18

like very much hearkening to a kind

12:20

of, like a boomer is 60s nostalgia

12:23

that might not have ever existed but

12:25

was there in the media. It's very

12:27

squeaky clean. It's very squeaky clean but

12:29

it's also dealing with like the insane

12:32

like racism and hypocrisy of media of

12:34

the 60s. and median

12:36

out you know absolutely but

12:38

I mean it was a

12:40

time when you know racial

12:42

segregation was in law yeah

12:44

so there's a whole other

12:46

cast of the corny calling

12:48

show and there's also another

12:51

host more mouth made by

12:53

Queen Latifah and immediately you

12:55

know that like the talent

12:57

that they have within this

12:59

cast is so incredible yeah

13:01

and so heightened on every

13:03

level Absolutely and Tracy, you

13:05

know, consistently through the movie,

13:07

you know, recognises that talent

13:09

and absolutely idolizes the cast

13:11

on the Friday show and

13:13

dreams of of the cast

13:15

being integrated but then you've

13:18

got Michelle Fyfer who is

13:20

played absolutely excellently and did

13:22

you know that at this

13:24

time when Michelle Fyfer was

13:26

cast she'd taken a five-year

13:28

career break so she hadn't

13:30

been in anything for five

13:32

years and then played back-to-back

13:34

villain roles in the same

13:36

year in her spray and

13:38

Stardust. Oh shit, start us,

13:40

oh my god. So that

13:42

was a really, really big

13:45

year for Michelle Fyfer, especially

13:47

when she'd only really done

13:49

one big villain role before,

13:51

which was iconically cat women,

13:53

but she was a huge

13:55

leading lady of the 90s

13:57

and 80s, and then just

13:59

absolutely smashed it with this.

14:01

what's the name for character

14:03

again? in, oh, Velma von

14:05

Tussle. Yeah, and Velma von

14:07

Tussle. And yeah, I mean,

14:10

Miss Baltimore Cabs. And so,

14:12

okay, so there's a, like,

14:14

opening on the Corny Collins

14:16

show because of this teen

14:18

pregnancy, and then, like, Tracy

14:20

wants to go and audition,

14:22

and it's like immediately a

14:24

fight, because like, her mother,

14:26

Edna Turnblatt, who is a

14:28

agoraphobic laundry lady, played by.

14:31

John Travolta and the performance of

14:33

a career. And that like, like

14:35

John Tavolta as Edna Turnblam is

14:38

like the heart and soul of

14:40

this movie, like every time that

14:42

John Tavolta shows up in drag

14:44

as this woman who won't look

14:46

like... runs a laundry from her

14:48

apartment and her husband is Christopher

14:51

Walken and her daughter is Tracy

14:53

Turnblatt. Like she's just so, I

14:55

just cry, I just like, she's

14:57

so funny but there's just so

14:59

much heart in it. Why do

15:02

you think like it works as

15:04

well as it does? I really

15:06

think it's because John Dravola played

15:08

the character with such love. There

15:10

was no... I mean obviously since

15:12

Hersbury was adapted for the stage

15:15

there's always been a male actor

15:17

impersonating a woman in the role

15:19

of Edna but I think what's

15:21

being consistent because I've seen Hersbury

15:23

in the West End as well

15:26

is to play Edna you have

15:28

to really catch her essence and

15:30

Edna is funny not by you

15:32

know her stature how she looks.

15:34

It's because she's quirky and she

15:36

has all these ednisms and John

15:39

Travolta just really got that. Like

15:41

I'm being so ironic when I

15:43

say it's the performance of his

15:45

career. Like I feel like people

15:47

should be speaking about John Travolta's

15:50

role in hair spray the same

15:52

way they do about his comeback

15:54

in pulp fiction. Yeah. Because it's

15:56

incredible like there's so much love,

15:58

so much light and you can

16:00

see that he's just really really

16:03

enjoying the role. all those prosthetics

16:05

his eyes just absolutely light up

16:07

and we've cried in the 16

16:09

years of our friendship more times

16:11

over John Travole's career. Specifically his

16:14

role is in the term blood

16:16

than we have about things that

16:18

have happened to us. I

16:22

mean I'm sure at some point...

16:24

Our priorities and staff perspective. But

16:26

I mean I'm sure we'll get

16:28

to his jet with Christopher walking

16:30

but it's just so unbelievably beautiful

16:33

and it's it's shy but it's

16:35

bold and it's just really nice.

16:37

I'm really worried that I'm going

16:39

to start teering off early on.

16:42

Yeah, but like there the voice

16:44

is so met like it's weird

16:46

because you know it puts me

16:48

in mind of like a role

16:50

that does similar isms But it

16:53

completely failed to me, which is

16:55

when Tom Hanks was in the

16:57

Elvis movie Yes, playing Colonel Parker

16:59

like dripping in prosthetics with a

17:01

weird little voice on and I

17:04

found that completely repellent I was

17:06

like this is so so bad

17:08

it's so embarrassing like it's kind

17:10

of kind of ruined the whole

17:13

movie for me really even though

17:15

there's some great bits in that

17:17

movie and then you compare that

17:19

like to to John Chivolta, also

17:21

dripping in prosthetics, also with this

17:24

weird little voice that's not quite

17:26

Baltimore and not quite a human

17:28

woman, but it just kind of

17:30

is a turnblad, this thing of,

17:33

link, your pork is really, and

17:35

like, oh Tracy, I don't want

17:37

to go with all the hoipaleui,

17:39

drinking grooming cooks. It's like, share

17:41

through a helium balloon, like, sort

17:44

of visiting Baltimore for a weekend.

17:46

Like, it's a crazy voice. Yeah,

17:48

I mean, I've had to think

17:50

about this and I think that

17:53

this has to be something said

17:55

for it. The casting in this

17:57

is very intentional. I mean, the

17:59

main... largely of the

18:02

adult cast too are all either

18:04

Academy Award nominees or winners but

18:06

also most of the main cast

18:08

have already cut their teeth in

18:11

a musical and I think that

18:13

you know to execute a role

18:15

as complex as in a term

18:17

blood but to be a male

18:20

impersonate and a female in that

18:22

role. You have to be really

18:24

confident in taking that role within

18:26

the context of a musical and

18:29

obviously John Treville's other big musical

18:31

role is Greece which is so

18:33

iconic but partly because he was

18:35

just the perfect Danny and just

18:38

moved through that movie so effortlessly

18:40

from you know the dialogue scenes

18:42

to the musical scenes and was

18:44

able to put himself into that

18:47

space as editor and blad and

18:49

because he already had the musical

18:51

part down was really able to

18:53

focus in on what makes her

18:56

special and he really did. What

18:58

do you think makes her special?

19:02

I mean, I think it's a turnblads

19:04

as a whole, as a family. They're

19:06

just really good people. They're really content

19:09

with what they have. They want bigger,

19:11

but if that's not what happens, then

19:13

that's okay too. That is so it.

19:16

Yeah. Yeah, and there's the whole thing

19:18

where, so Tracy desperately wants to audition

19:20

and you have to sort of cut

19:22

school in order to audition. And like,

19:25

what Tracy doesn't know is that like

19:27

the world is really unfair. and not

19:29

nice to girls who look like her

19:32

and that especially this show is run

19:34

by sadists who are played by Michelle

19:36

Fiver and they're not and they're gonna

19:38

be cruel to her and like her

19:41

mom knows that and they kind of

19:43

like she's she sort of like bans

19:45

her she like is the bad guy

19:48

which Tracy says you can't go down

19:50

there and then when Christopher Walken who

19:52

plays Wilber says like oh why not

19:55

like let her go down there let

19:57

her try or whatever and you just

19:59

see Edna played by John Travolta just

20:01

the face just breaking being like they're

20:04

going to be mean to her and

20:06

like that there's something like beautiful about

20:08

that family union, right? It works as

20:11

a unit because it's like they have

20:13

made this like precious gorgeous kid because

20:15

they have like shielded her from like

20:17

the cruelty of the world and it

20:20

means that you get this Tracy character

20:22

who's like so naive but she's so

20:24

hopefully she doesn't understand why black kids

20:27

and white kids can't dance she doesn't

20:29

understand why she shouldn't be with somebody

20:31

like Link who's gorgeous and you know

20:33

on a different social strata to her

20:36

and like it just makes her so

20:38

irrepressable so irrepressible to everyone who meets

20:40

her means her. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

20:43

the thing is, you know, not to

20:45

get too deep into the term glad

20:47

lord, but... But Edna has spent 11

20:49

years living with agoraphobia, so presumably in

20:52

the movie, Tracy's what, like, 16, so

20:54

she spent most of her life only

20:56

knowing her mother indoors. Yeah. Which seems

20:59

like a house coat ironing other people's

21:01

clothes. Sounds pretty traumatic, but they still

21:03

make a really lovely life out of

21:05

it where they all have this really

21:08

positive worldview. But there's Edna still, you

21:10

know, running her business, doing her bits,

21:12

making sure that everybody she loves is

21:15

taking care of. But just dealing with

21:17

her own personal demons, like I want

21:19

to know what happened to 11 years

21:21

ago. Like, I mean, welcome to the

21:24

60s. She was ready to get out

21:26

there, you know, and that had been

21:28

building for a long time and there's

21:31

just... I just I've found

21:33

them as a family very moving. I

21:35

know whenever they're together all in the

21:38

scene it just it's instanteres for me

21:40

I don't even understand why because it's

21:42

such a silly and ironic movie in

21:45

so many ways and it sort of

21:47

is kind of cocking its eyebrow to

21:49

the audience and sort of showing you

21:51

like we're making fun of a certain

21:54

kind of 60s movie and also interrogating

21:56

the values of the 60s and also

21:58

sort of critiquing what's happening now but

22:01

also at the center of it there's

22:03

just so much hopeful loveliness. Absolutely. Real

22:05

people who I really believe in. Absolutely.

22:08

And I mean, in what other world

22:10

would you cast, not even in a

22:12

romantic context, but cast John Travole and

22:15

Christopher Walken side by side and think,

22:17

that makes sense, but I've genuinely ever

22:19

believed in a greater love than Hedon

22:21

and Wilbert. And we really have cried

22:24

a lot of tears over your timeless

22:26

to me. It's just such a beautiful

22:28

song and any song where one term

22:31

lad is singing to another, whether it's

22:33

welcome to the 60s or your timeless

22:35

to me, there's just, there's this real

22:38

sense of, you can really feel how

22:40

they back each other, like welcome to

22:42

the 60s, you know, there's a line

22:44

that Tracy says, I know something's in

22:47

you that you want to set free.

22:49

She wants to help her mom, she

22:51

wants to get her there, you know,

22:54

welcome to the 60s. Now it's all

22:56

happening happening. It's all happening. I

23:00

just loved that by Tracy. She just

23:02

wants to take everybody along with her.

23:04

It's so lovely. I mean she does,

23:06

doesn't she? I mean that's the thing

23:09

that we find throughout the movie, you

23:11

know, when we're introduced to Tracy. Her

23:13

main goal, her main ambition is, you

23:16

know, becoming a dancer in the Corny

23:18

Collins show and that's effectively her making

23:20

it and showing the world, you know,

23:23

what Baltimore can do, but her priority

23:25

shift throughout the movie and as they

23:27

shift. it becomes about lifting the other

23:30

people around her, whether it's, you know,

23:32

bringing her mother out and, you know,

23:34

letting her shine in the world, or

23:37

when she meets Little Line's stubs, and

23:39

once they get her on the Corny

23:41

Collins show and integrate the show, and

23:43

then it becomes a much deeper and

23:46

sevious movie, but still has that heart

23:48

and love and light and laughter. And

23:50

I think that's why. Like there's something

23:53

about the the Tracy character that I

23:55

think is is very very queer coded

23:57

or you know something where you know

24:00

just a real reliability in her

24:02

as a character for me a

24:04

queer person and you know I

24:07

think you know that's something where

24:09

you know for so many years

24:11

when we watch this movie together

24:13

like a lot of the first

24:15

years of our friendship I was

24:18

closeted and this was just like

24:20

a real source of joy for

24:22

me and I tell you where

24:24

I was dealing with so much

24:26

personal pain it's just yeah it's

24:28

it's one that I can, you

24:31

know, console myself with this movie

24:33

and I can reward myself with

24:35

this movie and, you know, it's

24:37

always there when I need it

24:39

and there's never a wrong time

24:41

to sit with it. Why do

24:44

you think it is a thing

24:46

that you were drawn to when

24:48

you were in that specific kind

24:50

of pain? Is it that like

24:52

it's like, everyone loves Tracy no

24:54

matter what or is it something

24:57

else? I think that might be

24:59

a part of it, but I

25:01

think overall it's, you know, seeing

25:03

how very real world situations are

25:05

dealt with with empathy and knowing

25:07

that, you know, Tracy

25:10

as a character in her

25:13

whole arc is that, you

25:15

know, above all, if she

25:17

stays true to herself. Yeah.

25:19

You know, then that's enough.

25:21

Yeah. Yeah, her own likes

25:23

values and things. Yeah. Yeah.

25:25

Yeah. And also, you know,

25:27

she gets Lincolnian, and that's

25:29

pretty horny. That's pretty horny.

25:31

It's pretty horny stuff. She

25:34

gets the long flat hair

25:36

to show that she's part

25:38

of the modern world. Let's

25:40

keep going with the plot

25:42

because she, what does she

25:44

do? She um... So she

25:46

additions for Corny Collins. Yes,

25:48

and she's immediately thrown out

25:50

in her eyes by... Vilma

25:52

von Tussle? Yes, in Miss

25:55

Baltimore Crabs. Which is the

25:57

ultimate villain song. Yeah. And

25:59

I mean... I

26:01

fully believe that when it

26:03

comes to a movie musical, the

26:06

villain is ultimately, no matter

26:08

how heinous or evil they're at,

26:10

redeemable if they have a

26:12

truly incredible banger of a signature

26:14

song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The

26:16

best song has to be the

26:19

villain song, otherwise what are

26:21

you doing with the musical? I

26:23

mean, you've got Be Prepared,

26:25

you've got Scar, literally killed the

26:27

Lion King. Yeah, yeah, he's

26:29

like, there are hyenas goose stepping

26:32

and he's singing Be Prepared

26:34

for the coup of a century.

26:36

Right. Like we're teaching children

26:38

the word coup in 1996 or

26:40

whatever it was and it's

26:42

just, it's such a banger. And

26:44

like Ursula's Poor Unfortunate Souls,

26:47

which is a sonically very close

26:49

to. Sounds very alike, they're

26:51

very similar songs and yeah, so

26:53

Miss Baltimore Crabs is essentially

26:55

a hark back to Velma von

26:57

Tussle's Days as a pageant

27:00

queen and how she basically rose

27:02

through the ranks by essentially

27:04

fucking her way to the top.

27:06

Very unashamedly. Love that. Go,

27:08

let's go. Boys. Rumba. Oh

27:12

my God, I mean incredible, like

27:14

that woman was at home for five

27:16

years and then just fucking rocked

27:18

up and set with that. Oh my

27:20

God, that's so weird to think

27:22

of, Michelle Pfeiffer just going for a

27:24

jog in the morning and like.

27:26

Sat at home scratching her hook for

27:28

five years, waiting for the call

27:30

from Adam Shankman and she was ready.

27:32

She was ready. Some might say

27:34

she's been ready since Grease 2. Oh

27:36

my goodness. Yeah. Wow. You did

27:38

an episode on Grease 2, you? I

27:40

did with Seamus O 'Reilly. Fantastic. Fantastic

27:42

stuff. As the gays will tell

27:44

you, it's better than the original. Well,

27:46

I actually don't agree, but I...

27:48

Neither would Edna Turnblad. But

27:51

I do think let's do it

27:53

for our country. Fucking rocks. Incredible. Oh,

27:55

that's quite fun, isn't it? Yeah,

27:57

yeah. It's when they're shagging in the

27:59

bunker. Yeah. And you've got got the of

28:02

of and Greece too in Hesbury. Yes! Very fun. That

28:04

very fun. I hope is fun, I

28:06

hope they talked about that. so

28:08

we um, she auditions. She has thrown out the auditions. Yeah,

28:10

out of the auditions. and then... Also

28:12

back to school to say it's

28:14

important to say that makes, um, uh, Michelle

28:16

Fy makes great villain in a re-level is that she's

28:18

great villain on the manager, so

28:20

the studio manager she she is

28:22

able, and she has a daughter

28:24

called Amber of one of one of of

28:27

of the of show, Collins though she though

28:29

she can't even dance. dance. And she's

28:31

a a little bitch. And actually this is this

28:33

is kind of where the me is very

28:35

similar to for me if very similar to

28:37

Wicked, if you're at the a from seeing you

28:39

the moment in the three times in the

28:41

cinema need you need something to sort

28:43

of tide you over until November.

28:45

feel like like is a very good

28:48

thing to get into get into. it is

28:50

essentially about two teenage girls who

28:52

are both incredibly ambitious one of them

28:54

sort of sits at the left

28:56

hand of power and therefore is never

28:58

going to change. and therefore is never going to change

29:00

of racist, prejudicial world because... world

29:02

from the system that she lives

29:04

in and the other one is in.

29:07

And the accepted by society for by that

29:09

are like to do with her appearance. like to do

29:11

with because of that because she's

29:13

not accepted she learns to sort

29:15

of relate to another group of

29:17

people who are also who are that's like

29:20

the kind of similarities of similarities me

29:22

think a lot of like also

29:24

you have me think a lot of like, see you

29:26

have Wicked and this and also in a

29:28

and the kind of, it's kind of, it's our

29:30

music. but like the movie... Pride, and about

29:32

how how they're three movies that are

29:34

about, are about like, You don't have to

29:36

have everything in common with the

29:39

people. you unite with you unite with in order

29:41

to find common ground and to find

29:43

activism with them. she was on the podcast last week said

29:45

when she was on the podcast last week

29:47

was that things thing that she loved, one

29:49

things she loves about musical is the the

29:51

fact that it is the most is the most

29:53

collaborative of all mediums because if everybody

29:56

isn't doing their job like if like if

29:58

someone doesn't flick a switch on time. time. a

30:00

costume doesn't tear away in time.

30:02

Like the fucking whole show is

30:04

fucked. And so it relies on

30:06

people who have nothing on, not

30:08

nothing on, but very little in

30:10

common, you know, professions at all

30:12

stages of sort of from the

30:14

most hands-on electrical jobs to like

30:16

people who are just up there

30:18

singing and dancing. to find cohesion

30:20

and then like if you think

30:22

like and then so much of

30:24

what these musicals are about are

30:27

just about like we don't have

30:29

to have everything in common to

30:31

fight for one another is right

30:33

to exist and I do think

30:35

something has happened in the breakdown

30:37

of like the way that social

30:39

media has become the now prominent

30:41

form of communication we sort of

30:43

we tricked ourselves into thinking a

30:45

few years ago and it's still

30:47

going on that like like if

30:50

you unless you have unless you either

30:52

know everything already or are of a

30:54

group that that is the only there

30:56

was like I remember during me too

30:58

sorry this is a bit of a

31:01

round but like during me too we

31:03

got into our head that like And

31:05

this is true that like men

31:07

can never understand the female experience,

31:09

like cis men can never understand

31:11

the female experience, you know, be

31:14

at the heel of the patriarchy,

31:16

right? And I think by really

31:18

forcing the sort of rhetoric of

31:20

like you'll never know what's like,

31:22

you'll never know, it's like we

31:24

ended up losing people to a

31:26

movement who has now radicalized them.

31:28

Yes. And I'm not saying that

31:30

we're responsible, like women are responsible

31:32

for radicalization men, I just think

31:34

we were sold a bad set

31:36

of lies by social media that

31:38

said to us, only people who

31:40

are of this specific background are

31:42

able to understand this specific problem

31:44

and alienated people from each other

31:46

and we need to get back

31:48

to the musical theory of like

31:50

political and social engagement of being

31:53

like, you can just have one

31:55

thing in common with the person

31:57

who's being oppressed, but you're both

31:59

being oppressed and you need to

32:01

get together on that, you know?

32:03

Wow, yeah, absolutely. Do you think,

32:05

I don't know, I'm talking about

32:07

ours. know. No, I don't think.

32:09

So I mean, yeah, it's like

32:11

at the end of the day,

32:13

what we share is people is

32:15

struggle and if you like completely

32:17

break it down to its most

32:19

basic form, I think that musicals

32:21

do that really well because you

32:23

need to move the story along

32:25

quite quickly. It's like, here's the

32:27

problem. and now we need to

32:29

sort of dance and sing our

32:32

way through it. Yeah, yeah, and

32:34

we need to get all the

32:36

people from all of the musical

32:38

to get together to sing about

32:40

it. Like what is one day

32:42

more but that of like, here's

32:44

everyone from the musical and they're

32:46

all in the revolution. Yeah, we

32:48

have to have our reprise where

32:50

like the cast is all brought

32:52

together and there's some sense of

32:54

like togetherness. Yeah, which in this

32:56

case is you can't stop the

32:58

beat, which I think we can

33:00

both agree that if that song

33:02

had another 10 minutes to it,

33:04

it still wouldn't be enough. I

33:06

know, it's already like fucking 15

33:08

minutes long, it should be longer,

33:10

it's so good. Yeah, absolutely. But

33:13

it's interesting, it's such a big

33:15

cast, such a big ensemble cast,

33:17

and as we said, you know,

33:19

they've had their experience across the

33:21

board in musicals, but also a

33:23

lot of very acclaimed Academy Award

33:25

stars. Zach Efron was so new

33:27

to the industry in this role

33:29

but was like a real young

33:31

hot thing. I think what was

33:33

all really interesting about Zach Efron

33:35

was this was actually despite having

33:37

been in high school musical. This

33:39

was his first singing role. Oh

33:41

my god, was there no singing

33:43

in high school musical? He sung

33:45

the first four lines in breaking

33:47

free. Have you seen high school?

33:49

Yeah, loads girl. Okay. Yeah. Because

33:52

we've never watched it together, I

33:54

assume you haven't seen it. I'm

33:56

a gay millennial who has his

33:58

own private time. But yeah, so

34:00

basically the story was that Zachafron,

34:02

they'd already created the soundtrack for

34:04

High School Musical before they cast

34:06

him. They loved his look. vibe,

34:08

but they thought that he just

34:10

sang it to Loa Register. So

34:12

they brought in an actor by

34:14

the name of Drew Sealy to

34:16

record the vocals for the first

34:18

high school musical soundtrack and he

34:20

actually went on tour with the

34:22

cast. to perform so that freed

34:24

up time for Zack Efron. Haske

34:26

was going to go toward as

34:28

a musical? Yeah, absolutely. I don't

34:31

know where I got all this

34:33

knowledge from. I think that it's

34:35

just from my reserve days of

34:37

you know being on Perez Hill.

34:39

Whatever I was doing in 2007.

34:41

But yeah, so he never actually

34:43

sung, he went on to sing

34:45

in the rest of the high

34:47

school musical franchise, however many of

34:49

them there was, and they sort

34:51

of created the songs to match

34:53

his voice, but yeah, they wanted

34:55

to get a tenor because the

34:57

music was, yeah, it was much

34:59

higher a register for his voice

35:01

type. Zakaforn actually then, is it?

35:03

Yeah, Zakaforn actually then comes to

35:05

speak of wicked. I always think

35:07

that there's a lot of similarities

35:10

between the character of Link and

35:12

Fiero in the sense that they

35:14

start off as these sort of

35:16

Lothario bad boys. Yeah, like combing

35:18

their hair at the side and

35:20

then before you know it, he's

35:22

absolutely goo gaga for Tracy and

35:24

he's, you know, demolishing half-eaten baby

35:26

Ruth that she's stashed under a

35:28

pillow. So distancing. It's a pretty

35:30

grim scene. But yeah, I, I

35:32

mean, I think so in terms

35:34

of how the story sort of

35:36

progressed because I know that we

35:38

sort of sidetracked there but but

35:40

Tracy following her botched edition for

35:42

the Corny Collins show goes back

35:44

to class finds herself in detention

35:46

because she's class to do the

35:49

thing that loads of people from

35:51

her class were already doing. Yeah,

35:53

then the logic doesn't totally hold

35:55

up there. It never made sense

35:57

to me. Best we leave that

35:59

to one side. Yeah, absolutely. I'm

36:01

calling fat phobia on that one.

36:03

But essentially she goes to detention

36:05

and that is where she meets

36:07

seemingly the entire Friday cast of

36:09

the Cornie Collins show, which has

36:11

never explained why all of the

36:13

cast are in detention all the

36:15

time. All the time, yeah, every

36:17

kid who, yeah, every black kid

36:19

in that school is in detention

36:21

all the time. And no one

36:23

explains why. I think the implication

36:25

is that because the school is

36:27

mostly white, they're sort of always,

36:30

quote unquote, in trouble. And they're

36:32

just sort of being warehoused in

36:34

detention. But they're having a nice

36:36

time in there. They're dancing a

36:38

lot of dancing. There doesn't seem

36:40

to be a teaching that detention,

36:42

which seems like a lot more

36:44

fun than regular class. But yeah,

36:46

so Tracy comes in like a

36:48

fucking building a China shop being

36:50

gamey out. She's so gamey and

36:52

she's just shaking her hips and

36:54

scalping her ass for seaweed who's

36:56

essentially the link on the on

36:58

the Friday show on Corny Collins

37:00

and It's a very strange scene

37:02

because everybody's very taken in by

37:04

how incredible a dancer. Tracy is,

37:06

but we never really see any

37:09

evidence of that. I actually think

37:11

that she looks more like one

37:13

of those like dashboard hula girls.

37:15

I know, yeah. It's weird. It's

37:17

strange because this is a case

37:19

where the director was the choreographer,

37:21

much like Chicago, but the way

37:23

the dancing is shot And I

37:25

think maybe it's to do with

37:27

the style of dancing that they're

37:29

dealing with, which is that 60s

37:31

dancing that I think was popularised

37:33

because it was like part of

37:35

a wider teen fan culture. it

37:37

was doing the

37:39

twist or doing

37:41

the mashed potato

37:43

where it's like mashed

37:45

the whole thing

37:48

is that these

37:50

moves are simple

37:52

that they're not

37:54

simple anybody can

37:56

do them and

37:58

so like even

38:00

though it's like

38:02

so joyful to

38:04

see it's not

38:06

like a spectacle

38:08

in the way

38:10

you would see

38:12

like a musical in

38:14

the way you would see like a big number. a And

38:16

so you get a lot of people who

38:18

are being shot from the waist up. who are

38:20

being It's a very waist up yeah it's a very odd It

38:22

certainly is because most sort of

38:25

musical or dance movies from

38:27

the that we we were treated

38:29

to were very about the choreo,

38:31

so when you think about

38:33

you think about save last up. or

38:35

funny. Exactly. It was

38:37

very much about the about the

38:39

moves whereas I can't see any see any

38:42

reason why any seen any

38:44

particular talent in Tracy, except for they

38:46

like the cut of a jit. And all the dancers

38:48

on the Corny Collins show are pretty much as

38:50

good as each other Like no one's

38:52

like, no one's amazing really. everyone's just like

38:54

just like, are dance moves that

38:56

like aren't really there to evidence

38:59

how amazing someone is technically

39:01

they just technically, to do to do. Yeah, absolutely.

39:03

It's like they're collecting these dance moves

39:05

like stickers or something it's like or

39:07

something. It's like, you know have a misunderstanding of

39:09

know, dance culture i'm not sure well

39:11

i think the only of 60s dance culture, I'm

39:14

the whole movie I been

39:16

any different in their out

39:18

throughout the whole movie has rightly so.

39:20

their movements and rightly so, is a little

39:23

else but completely in for

39:25

me. completely in formation, yeah. right? So Tracy

39:27

meets I&EZ and CED who are the two are

39:29

the two kids of who runs the Friday show

39:31

and they all just they all just immediately

39:33

become friends because like, as we've said

39:36

before people just like Tracy. like Tracy. People

39:38

just like her. like nice. nice. Yeah,

39:41

and I mean, I I have

39:43

to really have to going to to

39:45

say at some point while we're

39:47

talking. seaweed might might

39:49

be the hottest person ever

39:51

seen in my life life. I

39:53

think a large large portion

39:56

of of his hotness has

39:58

to be credited credited to. costume

40:00

department because his heartness is only accentuated

40:02

by a very rich array of knitted

40:05

shirts. I mean every single time it

40:07

cuts to seaweed he is looking impeccable.

40:09

And not everybody can get away with

40:11

a knitted church. Not every man can

40:14

do it. I imagine summer in Baltimore

40:16

as well, it would be very bomb.

40:18

Yeah, gorgeous knitted shirts. So then, okay,

40:20

so then what happens is that they

40:23

have like some corny columns event and

40:25

then we get another kind of, it's

40:27

interesting when we get like Tracy's world

40:30

because Tracy is just like a happy-go-lucky

40:32

kid who's like, she's ever about the

40:34

same. And then we are reminded again

40:36

that we're living in a sort of

40:39

pre-civil rights. Baltimore, they go on like

40:41

a dance, yeah, Corny Khan is having

40:43

some kind of dance event and that

40:45

is being televised, the kids are segregated,

40:48

the black kids are on one side,

40:50

the white kids are on the other,

40:52

and Tracy tries to talk to seaweed

40:54

through the ropes. The ropes. I know,

40:57

the rope is so sad. And it's

40:59

like, oh, that rope was a real

41:01

thing within my parents' lifetime. And there's

41:03

no mention of it. It's just there.

41:06

No one says this dumb rope. Everyone's

41:08

just like, oh, the rope. You know,

41:10

it's like, it's like, it's very, it's

41:12

very jarring. Again, and again, it's one

41:15

of those things that what makes like

41:17

hair spray so kind of jarring, you

41:19

know. Anyway, she's just talked to seaweed

41:22

through the rope and he's a bit

41:24

like, you're going to get in trouble

41:26

for talking to me. And then she's

41:28

like, well, no, fuck that. Let's just

41:31

do our little dance that we didn't

41:33

attention. He's like, how about you do

41:35

the dance? And I stay over here

41:37

because he's just trying to mind himself.

41:40

And then, which is, I find quite

41:42

sweet actually, is like, you know, Tracy

41:44

asks his permission to dance. Which is

41:46

like, again, one of those kind of...

41:49

So it's your moves? They're your moves.

41:51

There's like, yeah, you can borrow them

41:53

for a while, you know? And, um...

41:55

you know, is like, again, because it's

41:58

a 60s musical, and this is an

42:00

era that was known for white artists

42:02

doing black things, and then popularizing them,

42:05

and then the original artist not getting

42:07

any credit or money or anything. It

42:09

feels quite, it's very intentional that like,

42:11

you know, Tracy asked permission, and then

42:14

she gets all this attention for doing

42:16

this dance, and then she gets on

42:18

the show, and then she gets on

42:20

the show, and then she gets on

42:23

the show, and then she gets on

42:25

the show, and the show with her

42:27

musical, you know. And like, it's just

42:29

like, yes, is it sort of cheesy

42:32

and happy-clappy and bright and full of

42:34

like 60s pop music? Yes, but is

42:36

like, it also kind of an like

42:38

amazing thing, like a kind of a

42:41

lovely thing to have just a character

42:43

be like, no, I'm, whatever the demographic

42:45

it is, whatever the racial divide is,

42:48

for someone to be like, no, I'm

42:50

taking everyone with me, I'm taking my

42:52

friends with me. It's like, it's just

42:54

lovely. for

42:56

removing. And of course she she

42:58

absolutely smashes it when she when

43:00

she pulls out seaweed's moves. Everybody

43:03

is absolutely eating it up in

43:05

the audience and at home and

43:07

at that point you then see

43:09

a cut away where where her

43:11

best friend Penny played by Amanda

43:13

Bines. We haven't been solved about

43:15

Amanda Bines! I know. Oh my

43:17

god, like I just want, I

43:19

really want a low innocence for

43:21

Amanda Bines. If that's what she

43:23

wants. Yeah, I mostly, I want

43:25

her to get well and live

43:27

on around. She's just such a

43:29

talent, isn't she? I mean... Sorry

43:31

for people who don't know, remind,

43:33

I don't know, who could bother

43:35

me that up, but remind the

43:37

world who Amanda Bines is. Amanda

43:39

Bines is essentially like 90s and

43:41

2000s, Nickelodeon royalty isn't she? She

43:43

was a one woman, Kenan and

43:46

Kel, she was a one woman

43:48

S&L. Like I still watch the

43:50

Amanda show to this day, which

43:52

was a sketch show headed by

43:54

her and the guys that were

43:56

in Drake and Josh. really holds

43:58

up. It's like Sabrina, the teenage

44:00

witch, where a lot of the

44:02

jokes are actually quite, you know,

44:04

geared towards adults. So you can

44:06

still watch it as an adult

44:08

and enjoy and appreciate it for

44:10

how funny it is. Those sketches

44:12

were just good, man. They were

44:14

great. They were like, the girls'

44:16

room, where it's just like girls

44:18

in the bathroom. The girls' room.

44:20

I like eggs. I still say

44:22

I like eggs all the time.

44:24

I like eggs walked so I

44:26

love lamb could run. Oh my

44:29

god, it's so true. But nobody's

44:31

ready to have that conversation. Nobody's

44:34

ready to have that coming. And

44:36

like, I remember Moody's point where he

44:38

was like a parody of Dawson's Creek.

44:41

Yeah, did you know that her love

44:43

and chesting that was Tarran Killen? I

44:45

think I'm pronouncing his name correctly, but

44:48

he was in a senile and

44:50

he's married to like Robin from her

44:52

mate your mother. Oh my god. Yeah,

44:54

yes, yes, yes. But yeah so Amanda

44:57

Bines I mean she the sketches and

44:59

the writing were fantastic but it was

45:01

all carried by her. And she would

45:04

come out like a proper host every

45:06

episode and be like oh Amanda

45:08

this is the and it's like we

45:10

haven't we haven't managed that for an

45:13

adult woman yet but we did it

45:15

for 14 year old Amanda Bines that's

45:17

crazy. Absolutely and I mean she had

45:20

such an amazing career. She went

45:22

on to, I don't know if it

45:24

was ever, big in the UK, but

45:26

I know that I had a real

45:29

moment in Ireland to show how I

45:31

like about you. What I like about

45:33

you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was

45:35

always on our T too, over afternoon.

45:38

Yeah, it was, it was like a

45:40

real after school thing. And that was

45:42

like her mature moment. And then she

45:45

carried that so well. And then made

45:47

the transition to the big screen

45:49

with like roles in easy age. She's

45:52

and she's the man. What a girl

45:54

once. What a girl wants all like

45:56

staples for for a 2,000 girl sleepovers.

45:59

Yeah, yeah. Fat Liar. Big Fat Liar?

46:01

I don't know anything about that movie

46:03

except the term Paul Giamante blue. It

46:06

was just the trailer, wasn't it?

46:08

That was all the trailer was. Yeah,

46:10

you're so right. Him being blue. Yeah,

46:12

Amanda Bines and Sunglasses and Paul Giamante

46:15

being blue. we'll

46:17

never find that one. We will

46:19

never find that one. But yeah

46:22

so I mean she was just

46:24

absolutely incredible in this so she

46:26

she plays the best friend character

46:28

Penny Pingleton and her mother's played

46:31

by Alice and Johnny which again

46:33

we haven't mentioned Alice and Johnny

46:35

but it says a lot about

46:37

the strength of the cast that

46:40

somebody as incredible a force is

46:42

Alice and Johnny is I feel

46:44

so disrespectful for saying it, but

46:46

somewhat of a forgettable character. Yeah.

46:48

I mean, there's not a lot

46:51

of her, but it's crazy how,

46:53

like, she is the best thing

46:55

in most things she's in, and

46:57

she's sort of the weaker part

47:00

of this movie. Like, it's crazy.

47:02

Especially because Penny's mother is like

47:04

this, she's like a doomsday religious

47:06

extremist. Yeah, yeah. And she should

47:09

be this big, loud camp character.

47:11

which she is and that would

47:13

be more accentuated if it wasn't

47:15

in hairspray. If everyone wasn't so

47:17

massively big already. Like yeah it's

47:20

so weird she's a doomsday Christian

47:22

fundamentalist but it feels like I'm

47:24

too quiet a role or something

47:26

like for this crazy movie. Yeah

47:29

absolutely like I genuinely I can't

47:31

remember anything that she does in

47:33

the movie apart from Tell Tracy

47:35

not to hear a canned tuna

47:38

when she locks her in the

47:40

basement. with all her

47:42

dunes day supplies or when she

47:44

ties pen into the bed. Yeah.

47:46

Yeah. But we love Alice and

47:48

Jenny. But we love Alice and

47:51

Jenny of course. I want to

47:53

talk more about how Tracy gets

47:55

on the show. She's an immediate

47:57

sensation. Her dad who runs a

47:59

joke shop that's selling like merchandise.

48:01

The marriage the Tracy. and Tracy

48:03

Whoopi Cushions. And then she gets

48:05

a call from Mr. Pinky of

48:07

Mr. Pinky's Hefti Hideaway. That scene,

48:09

I think it's my favorite scene,

48:11

my favorite segment of the whole

48:14

movie, where she gets the call

48:16

and then she like passes it

48:18

over to her mom. And like,

48:20

she sort of like, sits back

48:22

into a rocking chair and fans

48:24

herself like, oh my god, I

48:26

can't believe, I'm like, I've made

48:28

it to the big time, I've

48:30

like heard from Mr. Pinky's hefty

48:32

hideaway, the like plus-sized dress shop

48:35

in town. And she's like, oh

48:37

mom, do you think we'll be

48:39

able to get? Yeah. And Edna's

48:41

like, well, perks like caftens have

48:43

to be negotiated. And

48:47

then Tracy says to her, like you

48:49

know, Edna is like, we need to

48:51

get you an agent. And, uh, like,

48:54

Tris like, oh, well, you'll be my

48:56

agent. Like, you care about me so

48:58

much. And then that's where we get

49:00

the moment where we find out that,

49:02

like, Edna hasn't left the house in

49:04

11 years. And she's like, oh, the

49:06

neighbours haven't seen me since I was

49:08

says 10. You know, you're saying this

49:10

already, and I can feel a lumping

49:13

my throat. I can feel lumping my

49:15

throat. And she's like, Mom, and like,

49:17

she's mom, like, you know, there's a

49:19

whole, it's very, it's very desperate. She's

49:21

like, she's like, oh, you know, I'll

49:23

go out after my next diet kind

49:25

of thing. And it's, it's like the

49:27

world's changing out there, you know, people

49:29

who are different are being accepted. Yeah.

49:32

And like she turns on the TV

49:34

and there's like three kind of like

49:36

black girls who almost like the Suprem

49:38

of the Supremes that are dancing and

49:40

singing and singing. And like, again, it's

49:42

one of those moments where it's like,

49:44

you know, it's a kind of a

49:46

one-for-all moment that feels really lovely of

49:48

like, yeah, is it silly to relate

49:51

like black silver rights to like, you

49:53

know, like a woman with agoraphobia who

49:55

feels like she's too fat to leave

49:57

the house? Like, in some

49:59

ways maybe, but in in

50:01

other ways Because it's a Because

50:03

it's a musical all we're all dealing with

50:05

one problem. Yeah, again, yeah, we are, we

50:07

are not a musical and we're all, like, yeah, dealing

50:09

with dealing with one problem,

50:12

but I do think I do think that's

50:14

also real to the human experience, like. like...

50:16

I'm so. Well, well when turns on

50:18

the on the TV, doesn't see

50:20

a a older lady on the

50:22

screen. She the screen, know, three

50:25

know, singers, you know. performing performing

50:27

incredibly and her face lights

50:29

up. you know, You know, she

50:31

sees change is happening. And that's enough to

50:33

enough to take her outside.

50:35

you know, start her new life. I you know,

50:38

you a new life. I

50:40

mean, you get, Pinky's go

50:42

to Mr. they're they're

50:44

greeted by Mr. Pinky and

50:46

immediately he's absolutely delighted to see

50:48

Edna and he treats her

50:50

like the great beauty that he

50:52

sees the she is and he's

50:54

he her and he's giving her,

50:56

you know, flattening and he's giving

50:58

her, you know, donuts. go

51:01

over contract. Flattery will

51:03

not work with with Miss Turnblads

51:05

aging. We could do a whole show just

51:07

do a whole show Impersonations

51:09

I left my like my I

51:11

left my Arnong. yeah so at

51:13

this point we then this point

51:15

we then get this really

51:17

beautiful montage. Yeah. And it's And

51:19

it's Edna, know, trying

51:21

on new clothes and sort

51:23

of embracing, you

51:25

know, know a breaking her pattern. Yeah.

51:28

And the big reveal, and this

51:30

is one that always tears this is one

51:32

that always like tears us a because

51:34

it's such a beautiful line she

51:36

know she sees herself in this

51:38

new light that that she hasn't seen

51:40

herself herself in for 11 years and she

51:42

says you like it? I'll feel quite I'll

51:44

feel quite so late if I do. No, it's

51:46

bad. Hey Tracy, hey look at

51:48

me, at I'm the

51:50

cutest cutest you can get you

51:53

ever dizzy. It's so

51:55

nice. hey Tracy, hey Tracy look

51:57

at us. When what's

51:59

up? Where is there a team

52:01

that's happening? Fabulous! Oh my god.

52:04

I love it so much. I'm

52:06

going to watch it as soon

52:08

as I got home. And I

52:10

just like, I'm sorry, John Travolta

52:12

just disappears. You just like, every

52:14

part of you is like, I'm

52:17

so happy for this woman who

52:19

gets to like feel herself as

52:21

a woman. And like the costumes

52:23

change as well. And the thing

52:25

that's so... perfect about how the

52:27

kind of prosthetics I've done on

52:30

John Chavolta the whole body is

52:32

that like yeah he's playing a

52:34

larger woman but she's got a

52:36

body like she's got a big

52:38

fat high arse that's lovely she

52:40

got a big boob she got

52:43

a little waist like she's she's

52:45

gorgeous she is gorgeous yeah she

52:47

is gorgeous yeah she is gorgeous

52:49

in a stature ever played for

52:51

last because she is you know

52:54

a very large beautiful woman like

52:56

you know beautiful like happy lovely

52:58

face like beautiful curved beautiful big

53:00

ours like beautiful like even in

53:02

her dressing gowns like everything is

53:04

all very like put together very

53:07

plush so like all the changes

53:09

really when she gets that makeover

53:11

is Instead of like her cotton

53:13

dressing gown, she's now in sequence

53:15

but has this big fucking beautiful

53:17

smile and this like new confidence,

53:20

so they're out in the street,

53:22

they're swinging their shopping bags, they're

53:24

kicking, they've got the choreography going,

53:26

there's fucking fireworks, it is stunning.

53:28

Like there's nothing better in cinema

53:30

than a woman going shopping. like

53:33

this is nothing better but if

53:35

that woman is like a middle-aged

53:37

housewife who needs a new Lisa

53:39

on life and she's also a

53:41

man in drag like stop the

53:43

lights this is the best thing

53:46

ever it's the only time that

53:48

I ever truly believe in the

53:50

term retail therapy when a woman

53:52

does it in the film holding

53:54

loads of bags rectangular bags with

53:56

long handles it so healing My

54:45

dad works in B2B marketing. He came

54:47

by my school for career day and

54:49

said he was a big ROAS man.

54:51

Then he told everyone how much he

54:54

loved calculating his return on ad spend.

54:56

My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not

54:59

everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll

55:01

be able to reach people who do. Get

55:03

$100 credit on your next

55:06

ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to

55:08

claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms

55:10

and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place

55:13

to be. To be. It

56:14

really gets him, he covers him

56:16

with his kits and everything, it's

56:18

very sad. I really believe that

56:20

actor went method for a week

56:22

to really get into the heart.

56:24

It's like, Tracy, Mr. Frey does

56:26

not have breasts and then holds

56:28

up the picture of their male

56:30

teacher with breath and he like

56:32

covers his like body in such

56:34

a specific way. It was so

56:36

important. Amber didn't need to shake

56:38

the teacher down with him. No,

56:40

but she did, that's the kind

56:42

of girl Amber. Amber is. But

56:44

basically Tracy ends up back in

56:46

detention, aka Dan's class, and she

56:49

brings with her penny. And this

56:51

is where she introduces a penny

56:53

to seaweed. And like, penny and

56:55

seaweed, I really love them as

56:57

a couple. I really believe them,

56:59

like the instant attraction between the

57:01

two of them, like both actors.

57:03

just play it so well. Yeah.

57:05

And that's where we then get

57:07

a run and tell that, which

57:09

is one of the, I feel

57:11

like I'm going to say this

57:13

is one of the best songs

57:15

every time you speak about one

57:17

of the songs, but it is

57:19

a fucking Bob. It's so good.

57:21

It's so good. I mean, seaweed

57:23

is just doing his best seaweed.

57:25

It's my number, right? Yeah. He's

57:27

dancing, he's got a knitted shirt.

57:30

They're taking the bus. They're on the

57:32

bus. Like, even Zach Efron looks like

57:35

he wants to fuck him in that

57:37

scene. Yeah, oh God. Zach Efron's eyes

57:39

never leave him. It's like so intense.

57:42

He doesn't blink the whole scene. Same

57:44

girl. And that's how we end up

57:46

back at the record store owned by

57:48

Mortith Baybell, who is seared and Littlinez's

57:51

mother. Yeah, and then she's just basically

57:53

having a party and they're having like

57:55

a visit the food there. like they

57:58

invite Tracy and Penny to stay and

58:00

like there's a you know a line

58:02

that's like very well observed and it

58:04

also feels like foreshadowing of like I

58:07

think Link says oh is it okay

58:09

for here she says basically we'd be

58:11

in more danger on your street and

58:14

that kind of really does that line

58:16

does sort of set up the next

58:18

the kind of stakes for the rest

58:20

of the movie and so they have

58:23

fun they're all dancing it's all great

58:25

and they sing Big Blonde and Beautiful

58:27

which has been popularised by Holly Jervis,

58:30

the X factor editione, who is unfortunately...

58:32

Very Hunsnet culture but affectionately known for

58:34

having a very wide mouth. So I

58:36

can't watch that scene anymore without thinking

58:39

of Hollywood, but I imagine most people

58:41

whose Venn diagram intersets, often between hair

58:43

spray and X factor feel the same.

58:46

But... Also, Maybell announces at this dinner,

58:48

at this party, rather, that the reason

58:50

she's telling the party is because they're

58:52

cancelling the part they show. Yeah, yeah.

58:55

So that's when Tracy decides that she

58:57

is going to, you know, cult action.

58:59

and start a protest. Obviously Edna's having

59:02

none of that, but you know, you

59:04

can't keep a good Tracy down. So

59:06

obviously there are shades of it being

59:08

kind of a white-savier narrative because we

59:11

have like Tracy being like well why

59:13

don't we march and like what in

59:15

what world would the with the little

59:18

white teenage would be the first person

59:20

to think of a march for civil

59:22

rights but then we do flip to

59:24

sort of Queen Latifas Miss Maybell's point

59:27

of view for her number which is

59:29

I know where I've been and like

59:31

is this beautiful beautiful beautiful beautiful song

59:34

that she just holds so well of

59:36

like And it's like when we were

59:38

watching it, you said something like, you

59:40

know, this is kind of one of

59:43

those songs that finds you no matter

59:45

where you are. It kind of has

59:47

that defying gravity element to it where

59:50

you feel like it's just this character.

59:52

like to quote quote Tash

59:54

last week who knows

59:56

knows they're about to

59:59

do a really

1:00:01

hard thing thing, and

1:00:03

that it's a very

1:00:06

hard battle to like, you

1:00:08

know, win, but that you know, harder that

1:00:10

they've been harder places before they that they

1:00:12

keep moving through them. Absolutely, I mean I

1:00:14

mean it's a a really powerful song

1:00:16

and song just speaks to, I

1:00:18

mean I think when you I you

1:00:21

take a movie and adapt it

1:00:23

into a musical it into a You

1:00:25

know, you know that really

1:00:27

makes that translate that translate

1:00:29

and and you know find a lot

1:00:31

find and hold hold an

1:00:33

audience the the power of of

1:00:36

the song book and and

1:00:38

seen this year, year like

1:00:40

the Mingo's was released released and

1:00:42

It kind of... So it didn't arrive at

1:00:44

them? Yeah, because I because I think just

1:00:46

sort just sort of on The people

1:00:48

in on the good graces of

1:00:50

you're a and and you love

1:00:52

this movie so gonna make the

1:00:55

musical version of it. Whereas with

1:00:57

version of it, you know, they took

1:00:59

what was a cult movie and and

1:01:01

it with a really, really

1:01:03

powerful songbook And I think

1:01:05

that I know where I've been where I've

1:01:07

been is the best example of, you

1:01:09

know, a really impactful song on the

1:01:11

soundtrack. I mean, you listen to

1:01:14

that. I mean you listen to that

1:01:16

an obviously actress she's an

1:01:18

artist who has

1:01:20

you know an artist in

1:01:22

musicals before musicals this

1:01:25

song you could

1:01:27

imagine imagine be a

1:01:29

single by maybe Jay

1:01:31

by easily very it's

1:01:33

just such a it's just

1:01:36

such heavy song and

1:01:38

with song and with Tracy you

1:01:40

do you do feel throughout the

1:01:42

movie and maybe that's that's where as

1:01:44

a As a story, as a plot, over the

1:01:46

as a plot, have over the

1:01:49

years it may have aged

1:01:51

a little a real there is

1:01:53

a real sort of evident

1:01:55

complex complex It's a very it's

1:01:57

a very well -meaning character but you

1:01:59

you can. see that through

1:02:01

a 2024 lens, but at

1:02:04

the same time as well,

1:02:06

there isn't a time where,

1:02:09

you know, one of the

1:02:11

black characters, whether it be

1:02:14

seaweed, moor-mouthed maybell or anise,

1:02:16

is, you know, speaking

1:02:19

or singing or you know front and

1:02:21

center where they are not controlling the

1:02:23

narrative and like standing in their power

1:02:25

and I think that Queen Latifah and

1:02:28

that song is the best example of

1:02:30

that like she she's the one that

1:02:32

is like guiding her journey in this

1:02:34

moment yeah and it's not because Tracy's

1:02:37

saying we should you know former protest

1:02:39

like it's her it's Queen Latifah it's

1:02:41

more or mouth Mabel's voice that she

1:02:43

is using and that's where the power

1:02:45

is in that's where the power is

1:02:48

in that moment. It's

1:02:50

like if Tracy's adding anything

1:02:52

to it, it's the fact

1:02:54

that her naivety, her naivety

1:02:56

and her sunniness... sort of

1:02:58

is just kind of infectious

1:03:01

for people and she just

1:03:03

has this big open face

1:03:05

that like you can really

1:03:07

feel like if you were

1:03:09

in a room with that

1:03:11

character you would sort of

1:03:13

believe anything as possible even

1:03:16

things you might have tried

1:03:18

before you know. But also

1:03:20

this was a time where

1:03:22

I mean well it's always

1:03:24

the case but particularly in

1:03:26

the 1960s advocacy was crucial.

1:03:29

Yeah yeah totally. The movie

1:03:31

demonstrates that very, very well,

1:03:33

even though there is much

1:03:35

more discussion about, you know,

1:03:37

the harmfulness of a white

1:03:39

savour complex in 2024, there's

1:03:42

also, equally, like, advocacy is

1:03:44

always going to be important.

1:03:46

We always need to step

1:03:48

up. We always need to,

1:03:50

you know, be in the

1:03:52

right state of history. Yeah, and but

1:03:54

like it was also like, you know,

1:03:56

you see Maybell say to trace some

1:03:59

point you know you'll never dance on

1:04:01

TV again and then you get like

1:04:03

Tracy have that moment being like this

1:04:05

is more important she's like I know

1:04:07

and like it's something like I think

1:04:09

what's so powerful about hairspray is that

1:04:11

it is a musical that like it

1:04:13

is silly it is funny it is

1:04:15

camp but like every single character it

1:04:17

goes through massive internal shifts throughout and

1:04:19

you go from Tracy literally saying at

1:04:21

the top of the musical like all

1:04:23

I care about in the world is

1:04:25

being a dancer on TV to being

1:04:27

to like you know an hour later

1:04:29

being like I don't care anymore I

1:04:31

just this is more important and that's

1:04:33

huge and you get same with Edna

1:04:36

and you get the same with like

1:04:38

all the characters really they have a

1:04:40

moment where they decide what's really important

1:04:42

to them and they go for it

1:04:44

you know whether it's like being true

1:04:46

to like a version of the world

1:04:48

they want to see yeah well at

1:04:50

the very same or of all is

1:04:53

very human stories. Yeah.

1:04:56

And that's why when

1:04:58

the stakes are high

1:05:00

they feel high. Yeah.

1:05:03

I think when you look

1:05:05

at a musical like Chicago

1:05:07

it really is all razzle-dazzle.

1:05:09

You're really along for the

1:05:12

ride that presents but it

1:05:14

never at no point to

1:05:16

you as an audience member

1:05:18

feel threatened by any kind

1:05:20

of peril that the main

1:05:22

characters are in or what

1:05:24

they're going through. You know

1:05:26

you're just having a real

1:05:29

good time. Oh, I disagree.

1:05:31

I think by the time

1:05:33

they hang the Hungarian woman,

1:05:35

you're like, oh no. Oh

1:05:37

no, one of one of

1:05:39

my friends dies. We have

1:05:41

different relationships to Chicago. I

1:05:43

think you've probably already discussed

1:05:46

at length on here before.

1:05:48

Yeah, we have. So I

1:05:50

refer you to the Chicago

1:05:52

episode. But anyway, how does

1:05:54

Tracy ultimately use her advocacy?

1:05:56

Well, she boings a policeman

1:05:58

over the head. a

1:06:01

sign. and

1:06:03

he's like, it's a riot.

1:06:05

Yeah, she does, she does!

1:06:07

That's Tracy's advocacy. She actually

1:06:10

fucks things up for everybody.

1:06:12

Yeah, so it's, it's all

1:06:14

kicking off. At this point

1:06:16

up until now, the townblads

1:06:19

had basically sorted everything in

1:06:21

their house. Everything was going

1:06:23

quite nicely. Apart from a

1:06:25

threat of adultery in the

1:06:28

form of Thelma von Tussle.

1:06:30

Showing up at the joke

1:06:32

shop to seduce Wilber. The,

1:06:35

the, and then Wilburn Edna

1:06:37

basically rekindle the love through

1:06:39

one of the most beautiful

1:06:41

songs. The greatest love song

1:06:44

in a musical. We've cried

1:06:46

a lot of tears at

1:06:48

that, is it? Yeah, we

1:06:50

have. Yeah, and it's just

1:06:53

about like how, you know,

1:06:55

it's just like a very

1:06:57

sweet, mature, funny song about

1:06:59

like how... Yeah, it

1:07:02

doesn't matter. Like, you're like a stinky

1:07:04

old cheese, babe. Just getting better with

1:07:06

time. And it's like a real crewner

1:07:09

number, and it's a duet, but like,

1:07:11

there's something, I think if I heard

1:07:13

it on the soundtrack, I would probably

1:07:16

skip over it. Like if I didn't

1:07:18

know the musical, do you know what

1:07:20

I mean? But like, watching Christopher Walken

1:07:23

and John Chival to play a married

1:07:25

couple who've been together for maybe 20

1:07:27

years, and who've been together for maybe

1:07:30

20 years, and who've been together for

1:07:32

maybe 20 years, is so lovely. It's

1:07:34

just they're so dedicated to each other

1:07:36

and you just totally believe it the

1:07:39

whole time. You know that song really

1:07:41

reminds me of you and Gav? Oh

1:07:43

my god! Why would you say that?

1:07:46

It does. It's just kind of like

1:07:48

your relationship isn't it? You're like stinky

1:07:50

oh cheeses that get better of an

1:07:53

age. And Sylvia Tracy Turnblad. Oh my

1:07:55

gosh. You've got a kid that's blown

1:07:57

the lead off the Turnblad family tree.

1:08:00

When they sing that, it makes me

1:08:02

so upset. I literally can't even think

1:08:04

about it. getting upset and saying and

1:08:07

we got a kid who's blowing the

1:08:09

lid off the turnblad family tree. I

1:08:11

know that every time that we watch

1:08:14

that usually we're like clasping hands but

1:08:16

I know that I'll turn around and

1:08:18

your eyes are just red and filled

1:08:20

with tears. It's just so important. It's

1:08:24

so important and everything is all

1:08:27

tickety boo. They're just like the

1:08:29

three, that little family, you're right.

1:08:31

They're just as, they're so irrepressible

1:08:33

as a family, they're just such

1:08:35

little freaks. It's just, but they

1:08:37

love each other so much. Such

1:08:39

a solid little freak unit. I

1:08:41

know, I love them. And then

1:08:43

he gets to pack up his

1:08:45

rollaway bed of whoopie cushions. Yeah.

1:08:47

Move back into the main bedroom

1:08:49

and everything is all lovely until

1:08:51

Tracy insights arrive. Yeah, sure. And

1:08:53

that is how we end up

1:08:55

moving to one of the greatest

1:08:57

songs in the movie. Yes, so

1:08:59

we don't love. Oh my god,

1:09:01

without love! Oh my god, how

1:09:03

have we never done that in

1:09:05

karaoke together? I know, we must

1:09:07

change this. I think that we've,

1:09:09

we've definitely taken targets and taken

1:09:11

old parts. I certainly don't have

1:09:13

the range, but she simply does

1:09:15

not have the range. Yeah, and

1:09:17

it's just like all the characters

1:09:19

uniting again and sort of... It's

1:09:21

so beautiful, but also so weird,

1:09:23

because it involves, like, Link breaking

1:09:26

into Tracy's room and picking up

1:09:28

a framed photograph of her. Also,

1:09:30

her room is covered in photos

1:09:32

of him, which is strange. And

1:09:34

then he picks up a frame

1:09:36

photo of her and singing to

1:09:38

it, and then she starts singing

1:09:40

back, and it's one of the

1:09:42

more uncanny valley moments of the

1:09:44

film, but it doesn't matter because

1:09:46

the song is so good. Yeah,

1:09:48

we never really spoke about how

1:09:50

unhealthy her obsession with Lingua before

1:09:52

she started shifting them. Yeah, like

1:09:54

in the back. kind of like

1:09:56

baby reindeer if Martha won? Yeah,

1:09:58

it sort of is. It's sort

1:10:00

of is. There's a song where

1:10:02

she decides that she's in love

1:10:04

with Link called I Can Hear

1:10:06

the Bells and it does have

1:10:08

a stoker like intensity of her

1:10:10

just like watching him from windows

1:10:12

and pressing her hands up against

1:10:14

it. She's watching him combing his

1:10:16

hair in the jacks. That is

1:10:18

not okay. There's

1:10:21

a bit where she's taking a

1:10:23

driver's ed class and she turns

1:10:25

to the teacher and says, won't

1:10:27

go all the way, but I'll

1:10:30

go pretty far. The driver's ed

1:10:32

teacher is so uncomfortable. He's like,

1:10:34

how far, bitch? I'm your teacher.

1:10:36

Why are you telling me that

1:10:39

you blow someone but you wouldn't

1:10:41

write them? So the de noumont

1:10:43

of the movie is that Tracy

1:10:46

is going to break in and

1:10:48

sabotage the Miss Teen Hairspray pageant

1:10:50

which is like the event of

1:10:52

the year on the Corny Collins

1:10:55

show and also there are agents

1:10:57

from the William Morris Agency that

1:10:59

are there to look at Amber

1:11:02

dance because Yeah, that's what's happening.

1:11:04

And one of those agents is

1:11:06

played by Ricky Lake. Ricky Lake,

1:11:08

it's such a nice little cameo,

1:11:11

isn't it? Yeah, she's really acting.

1:11:13

She's really doing our face acting

1:11:15

in it. And Ricky Lake originated

1:11:17

the role of Tracy, which is

1:11:20

a nice detail in the John

1:11:22

Waters movie. Yeah, they don't beat

1:11:24

you over the head with it

1:11:27

either. She just sat there giving

1:11:29

Anna Winter Face in the audience.

1:11:31

Yeah. I love it. But yeah

1:11:33

so basically Tracy is now like

1:11:36

America's most wanted. They are trying

1:11:38

instead of postponing the show they

1:11:40

fully go ahead with it despite

1:11:43

the fact that several of their

1:11:45

cast members are now like wanted

1:11:47

by the police. So instead of

1:11:49

cancelling they just have very extensive

1:11:52

security detail around the TV studio

1:11:54

and they manage to basically get

1:11:56

past them by Trojan horse and

1:11:58

trace it into the studio in

1:12:01

a giant. hairsque break-in ultra clutch

1:12:03

specifically ultra clutch so yeah that's

1:12:05

that's that brings us to like

1:12:08

the big finale of the movie

1:12:10

which is you can't stop the

1:12:12

beat and everything moves very fast

1:12:14

at this stage basically Chaos kind

1:12:17

of ensues on the set of

1:12:19

the show. Velma is hiding vaults

1:12:21

to try and rig the competition

1:12:24

for Amber. Tracy is somewhere in

1:12:26

the studio hiding in a fucking

1:12:28

housebraiting. Link is just carrying on

1:12:30

as normal even though his girlfriend

1:12:33

is on the lamb. Oh, because

1:12:35

importantly, Link has had like, Link

1:12:37

has not been courageous. He's been

1:12:39

very cowardly. Yeah. Because he's been

1:12:42

like, oh, I've been dancing on

1:12:44

the show for years. This is

1:12:46

my big chance. And he sort

1:12:49

of... How long do you think?

1:12:51

What was he 14 on the

1:12:53

show? Like, what was going on?

1:12:55

I don't know. But it's also,

1:12:58

Tracy can then suddenly appear on

1:13:00

stage having climbed out of the

1:13:02

canned. And she like comes out

1:13:05

of a rocket ship. symbolizing the

1:13:07

future, because the future is Tracy.

1:13:09

And also importantly, Tracy, who is

1:13:11

known for her kind of very,

1:13:14

like, sort of crazy, up-do, her

1:13:16

rat, her bouffant-ratted hair, actually one

1:13:18

of my favorite lines of the

1:13:20

movie, is when Edna is giving

1:13:23

out to Tracy about having this

1:13:25

high-bufaunted, ratted hair, and she says,

1:13:27

Jackie Kennedy does it. And then

1:13:30

Edna says, I don't believe that.

1:13:32

I believe it is naturally stiff.

1:13:37

I do too. But then Tracy

1:13:39

comes out of the rocket and

1:13:41

she has long straight hair and

1:13:43

like a mod dress. It is

1:13:45

incredible. She looks, she looks a

1:13:47

fucking ten. It's the best look

1:13:49

of the whole movie. It's so

1:13:51

good. It's so good. And she

1:13:53

basically... It's so smart as well

1:13:55

to go from that sort of

1:13:57

version of the 60s that's basically

1:13:59

the late 50s and into like

1:14:02

this kind of mod straight... it's

1:14:04

like ooh okay styling okay wardrobe

1:14:06

it's giving share it's giving share

1:14:08

yeah so Basically, at this point,

1:14:10

she tells Amber to get the

1:14:12

fuck out of here. Yeah, get

1:14:14

the fuck out. The head bitch

1:14:16

in charge is back. And she

1:14:18

just dies straight into the closing

1:14:20

number. You can't stop the beat.

1:14:22

Like, the phones start ringing for

1:14:24

Tracy. People are going nuts. Like,

1:14:27

Velma's behind the scenes having an

1:14:29

absolute kitten. It's all popping off.

1:14:31

Yeah, I mean we just we

1:14:33

just start like moving through our

1:14:35

finale now where like basically everything

1:14:37

that Velma wanted to happen is

1:14:39

completely unraveling in front of her

1:14:41

and she at the same time

1:14:43

is completely and very publicly unraveling.

1:14:45

Delicious. And it really is hair

1:14:47

sprays one day more, like we

1:14:49

really do get every constituent part

1:14:52

of the musical coming together on

1:14:54

stage and it's also, you know,

1:14:56

everyone's storyline is being wrapped up

1:14:58

and everyone's sort of showing you

1:15:00

what they learned and like, you

1:15:02

know, the, like Tracy grabs Little

1:15:04

Inez, who's, I guess she's like

1:15:06

12 or something. And like you

1:15:08

said earlier on, she's probably the

1:15:10

only dancer of the whole, of

1:15:12

this entire cast who dances all

1:15:14

the time, who kind of really

1:15:17

does have her own specific style,

1:15:19

like earlier on. Her little paws.

1:15:21

She does a little paw dance

1:15:23

that is just so, so cute.

1:15:25

And you really do believe. that

1:15:27

like when she gets out on

1:15:29

stage and she dances and like

1:15:31

it's so she's got so much

1:15:33

natural charisma even though as a

1:15:35

performer she doesn't have that many

1:15:37

lines but just this this personality

1:15:39

comes out through dance that is

1:15:42

just so irrepressible and then the

1:15:44

phones start ringing off the hook

1:15:46

and then we get Maybell who

1:15:48

comes on and we just get

1:15:50

everybody comes on like what are

1:15:52

the other bits I don't know.

1:15:54

And everybody gets to come on

1:15:56

and have their final say and

1:15:58

it's like they're a big moment

1:16:00

of like liberation, you know, whether

1:16:02

like on a very public platform.

1:16:04

know, Edna comes on and she

1:16:07

just presents herself to the world.

1:16:09

And she has like a Tina

1:16:11

Turner moment where she has like

1:16:13

a little... A ripaway sequence shortly

1:16:15

and she got the little legs

1:16:17

going. You can't stop the way

1:16:19

I know, because I like the

1:16:21

way I am. And you just

1:16:23

can't stop my night from folk

1:16:25

when I see a Christmas. Oh

1:16:27

my god, it's so good. And

1:16:29

you get Penny and Seaweed coming

1:16:32

on, just sort of renouncing their

1:16:34

love for each other. See, this

1:16:36

is where it's like really beautiful

1:16:38

as well, because you've got, obviously,

1:16:40

Little Inez, she comes on, she

1:16:42

dances, the phone lines start going

1:16:44

crazy, and there's this moment where,

1:16:46

you know, you can see like,

1:16:48

all over the telephone operators just

1:16:50

like can't keep up with the

1:16:52

amount of calls that are coming

1:16:54

through. That's my favorite thing that

1:16:57

happened in like in a movie

1:16:59

where like, the operators can't keep

1:17:01

up with the calls, the lights

1:17:03

are flashing, the guys are getting

1:17:05

all, oh, wait, whoa. We weren't

1:17:07

expecting this for a local teen

1:17:09

dance competition, but now we're on

1:17:11

the edge of history. And that's

1:17:13

when Little Linez is then named

1:17:15

as the head dancer of the

1:17:17

Corny Colin show because she's won

1:17:19

the Miss Teen Hairsbury contest. And

1:17:22

then it's at that point that

1:17:24

Corny Collins announces that the Corny

1:17:26

Colin show is now and forever

1:17:28

integrated. It's very moving. And then

1:17:30

he subsequently goes straight over, grabs

1:17:32

Miss Maybell, and tells her this

1:17:34

is your moment, and she comes

1:17:36

on. She is basically co-hosting now

1:17:38

with Corny, and she sings the

1:17:40

line. Tomorrow is a brand new

1:17:42

day, and it don't know white

1:17:44

from black. And it's just that,

1:17:47

but I absolutely lose it every

1:17:49

single time. It's just so beautiful.

1:17:51

Everybody's dancing together. They're super happy.

1:17:53

You can even see the Ambrose

1:17:55

having a bit of a redemption

1:17:57

arc. Yeah. Velma gets fired from

1:17:59

the show which I think is

1:18:01

just enough of a up and

1:18:03

support her because we like her.

1:18:05

She's the villain but she had

1:18:07

that big signature number so we're

1:18:09

doomed to like her. Getting fired

1:18:12

is enough. I don't want to

1:18:14

jump off a bridge, you know,

1:18:16

Javert style. You know, we need

1:18:18

to know that Miss Vilma lives.

1:18:20

But, and that's it. The movie

1:18:22

sort of wraps up in a

1:18:24

nice beautiful neat bowl where everybody

1:18:26

got what they wanted. Well, everybody

1:18:28

have good intention. I love it,

1:18:30

yeah, and everybody changes and everybody,

1:18:32

you know, it's just great. And

1:18:34

then Lincoln and Tracy Kiss, and

1:18:37

it's just, it's just the perfect

1:18:39

little movie. Fin. Fun. I love

1:18:41

it. I love it. I love

1:18:43

it. I love it. I love

1:18:45

this. This

1:18:48

movie always does this to me.

1:18:50

I know, like, yeah. Oh my

1:18:52

God. On some levels, this is

1:18:54

what musicals are for. It's like,

1:18:56

it doesn't just make you feel

1:18:58

like, again, like you come back

1:19:00

to what task said the other

1:19:02

week about like how, um, They

1:19:04

are fundamentally about things coming together.

1:19:06

Do you know what I mean?

1:19:08

Things like they don't have very

1:19:10

much in common, coming together in

1:19:13

the best possible way, whether it's

1:19:15

like electrics and wardrobe and lighting

1:19:17

and acting and dancing, music and

1:19:19

instruments. And that's how the end

1:19:21

of a musical should make you

1:19:23

feel. It should make you feel

1:19:25

that like anything is possible, that

1:19:27

anything can come together, that like

1:19:29

there is a sense of unity

1:19:31

in the world. And I think

1:19:33

that like, like, no, nothing is

1:19:35

about an air spray. That's exactly

1:19:37

it. My favourite type of musical

1:19:39

is one where ordinary people do

1:19:41

extraordinary things. And you know I

1:19:43

think that's why you know best

1:19:46

little whorehouse in Texas is another

1:19:48

musical that really sort of is

1:19:50

very personal to us but really

1:19:52

ticks that box and it's because

1:19:54

it's with that type of musical

1:19:56

it can fit into your life

1:19:58

at any time and whatever. you're

1:20:01

in and it's always going to uplift you

1:20:03

and it always does and I come out

1:20:05

of it you know if I've had a

1:20:07

bad day and I put on a hair

1:20:09

spray I feel cleansed coming out of it

1:20:11

I know how I know how you know

1:20:13

sacre in that sounds but it's true I

1:20:16

think that's the gift that musicals give it's

1:20:18

that no matter what situation you're in, it

1:20:20

lifts you out of it and brings you

1:20:22

somewhere beautiful. And you know, if you've got

1:20:24

these beautiful characters that you're sitting with for

1:20:26

an hour and a half, two hours, however

1:20:28

long it is, and you go through that

1:20:30

journey with them and at the end, you've

1:20:33

won, you've won its well. Yeah. That's why

1:20:35

we usually set the end of hair spray,

1:20:37

bawling and blubbing because we went along in

1:20:39

that whole journey and we've won. We've got

1:20:41

to watch them and that's the win! Oh,

1:20:43

well this has been lovely. I'm so glad

1:20:45

that we can finally talk publicly and officially

1:20:47

about our love of this movie that not

1:20:50

enough people care about. You bring this up

1:20:52

with people and they're like, oh yeah, okay,

1:20:54

like what's wrong? It's on Netflix, come on,

1:20:56

you all have Netflix. Absolutely, I just think

1:20:58

that, well there's a couple of things, I

1:21:00

think that it was released at the wrong

1:21:02

time. You know, movie musicals have come such

1:21:05

a long way in the last sort of

1:21:07

10, 15 years since then. I mean they're

1:21:09

always not hell's trouble no matter when. Absolutely,

1:21:11

but now you've got... since the release of

1:21:13

like Lumiz and like the greatest showman this

1:21:15

like this newfound respect for musicals that I

1:21:17

think was absent in 2007 like it had

1:21:19

to be all the way cheesy like a

1:21:22

Mamma Mia that I think that it had

1:21:24

too much sincerity at that time and you

1:21:26

know Yeah, because you're right, because like tonally,

1:21:28

nothing is really like hair spray in that

1:21:30

thing. It's like so filled with iron. darkness

1:21:32

also so filled with

1:21:34

happiness and light. I

1:21:36

actually think it makes

1:21:39

much more sense much more

1:21:41

of a TikTok sensibility

1:21:43

now than it would

1:21:45

in 2007, do you

1:21:47

you know Where we weren't

1:21:49

used to that kind

1:21:51

of tonal blending. to that

1:21:53

sure. tonal I love

1:21:56

it anyway. love love it.

1:21:58

Whatever time it comes out,

1:22:00

I love it. Absolutely. particularly

1:22:02

which I will watch

1:22:04

again in a few

1:22:06

weeks with my sister.

1:22:08

with my sister. you so

1:22:11

much for having you. What

1:22:13

a day we've had.

1:22:15

We bought a tree,

1:22:17

we put it up,

1:22:19

we a tree, we we

1:22:21

did a podcast. watch hairspray, we

1:22:23

did a next? I know. What next?

1:22:25

You right. You should

1:22:28

probably finish before Sal getting

1:22:30

agitated. know again. I know

1:22:32

again. you want to

1:22:34

promote anything of yourself, Do

1:22:36

your want to of your

1:22:38

anything? Yeah, so my

1:22:40

Instagram is is Mr R for real, so so

1:22:42

that's for real. Thank you so much for you so

1:22:44

much for having me on. This has

1:22:46

been a blast. It's been, it's

1:22:48

been too late coming. Thank you so

1:22:50

much. so who like a fan of is

1:22:53

a fan of you might you

1:22:55

Ryan from the

1:22:57

Ryan from the acknowledgments. you.

1:22:59

an Easter egg for Bye everyone.

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there are lots of ways you can

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