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This This episode is brought to you

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by Amazon Prime. There is There is

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nothing sweeter than baking cookies during the

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Prime. Visit amazon .com prime to get more

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out of whatever you're into. into. Hello

0:51

and welcome back to another inter

0:53

to episode of Sequelizers, I

0:55

am your host as always, Jack I

0:57

am your host as and joining me

0:59

Chambers Ward and joining me also as

1:01

always. over the faces of every

1:03

studio exec. over the Then

1:06

he showed these men a

1:08

film, what film really was. He

1:10

tells them film would rather see

1:12

cinema dead would live another day

1:14

with a full live run of

1:16

a full six film run of rebel moon. something

1:19

we can agree on. on, sir. Yep.

1:21

And for you to proclaim cinema

1:23

dead, that is a big deal. For me it's

1:25

like, oh what a For me, it's

1:27

like, Oh, you shame, have like... Six directed

1:29

cuts from the... All released in cinema.

1:32

lord. That be be the end. I was to

1:34

someone the other day about the other I was like... Rebel

1:36

You're telling me things. like, you're still

1:38

don't care. I still don't care. nothing you

1:40

can tell me. me that will

1:42

make me interested in that world

1:45

that that or that universe. or that universe. Was

1:47

it Zach? it was my buddy, Mr.

1:49

Snyder. We were just were just working

1:51

out together like Bros. keeps emailing

1:53

us. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, no buddy. Speaking

1:55

of of gym bros, it's Tim Matum. Do

1:57

you Do you understand what it

1:59

was like towards... my discord yesterday to

2:01

see everyone typing about me. It's

2:04

got nothing to do with what

2:06

they're accusing you of. It's a

2:08

simple matter of not warning me

2:10

that our podcast is in danger.

2:13

In danger of horny people on

2:15

the discord menu. Rice they exploded

2:17

recently. The dating channel is kick

2:19

it off. In a rotting season.

2:22

Indeed. It's cold outside everybody. Cuffing

2:24

season. Isn't it just? You need

2:26

a big boy. To quote, sizzer,

2:28

I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But

2:31

we're not talking about... What aren't

2:33

we talking about? Well, maybe we

2:35

are in some ways. It is

2:37

a VIP pick this week and

2:40

we're talking all about separating art

2:42

from the artist. Just something that

2:44

comes up. fairly frequently on this

2:46

show because of all the wrongings

2:49

in the cinema and the Hollywood

2:51

system and all the things where

2:53

I'm like I'll cast this guy

2:55

uh-oh no why I can't bring

2:58

that director back because oh reasons

3:00

quickly need to search if blah

3:02

blah blah blah, name, allegations blah

3:04

blah blah, controversy. Oh, that was

3:07

an interesting choice. Should this remake

3:09

have happened? All these things come

3:11

up regularly on the supervisor. So

3:13

it's nice having an opportunity to

3:15

get into the dirty details. Yeah,

3:18

we're going to kind of hit

3:20

it from a couple of different

3:22

angles as well. So it's not

3:24

a question. Yeah, it's not going

3:27

to be just a slog through

3:29

a bunch of romantic and sex

3:31

pests. Yeah. Indeed. And like I

3:33

said, it was selected by a

3:36

VIP on patron.com/signalizes. If you want

3:38

to go and join them, you

3:40

can. For as little as three

3:42

pounds a month, you get early

3:45

access and add free episodes for

3:47

five pounds a month, you get

3:49

the power to vote. We have

3:51

the Christmas commentary specials coming up,

3:54

like Netflix specials and all that

3:56

shit. I hate the like Netflix

3:58

romcom stuff that could. be

4:01

in our future for commentaries. I still

4:03

haven't seen what's won and I quite

4:05

like not knowing until I, you know,

4:07

I'm trying to keep remain my innocent,

4:10

retain my innocence for as long as

4:12

I can. Hold on to hope. Exactly.

4:14

Yeah. Yeah, I ain't got that. I'm

4:16

just gonna assume a shit. Well, yeah.

4:18

Well, we know one of them is

4:21

bad. We do this podcast, but the

4:23

other one's great. So, you know, there

4:25

you go. Still time for us to

4:27

somehow find something in that film, go,

4:30

oh, no, it is, maybe, we'll be

4:32

fine. But we will have a season

4:34

15 boat coming up very soon, and

4:36

we just decided basically confirmed and planned

4:39

all of season 15. So we started

4:41

recording. Big fucking names. Yeah, pretty big

4:43

names and we have a twist. Oh

4:45

there is twist. Oh yes. We were

4:48

literally just discussing this even though we're

4:50

only on the fourth interseason episode and

4:52

this is what feels like years away

4:54

and I'm sure Matt you will have

4:56

finished your pictures by the time the

4:59

next episode of this. By the time

5:01

the episode is released to them the

5:03

dear listeners. Oh yeah. You will have

5:05

finished all of your pictures that don't

5:08

come out until... March, or like June,

5:10

period. Yeah. No, that's the twist. I

5:12

don't get to write my pictures until

5:14

the first episode goes live. We're going

5:17

to make Matt do his in real

5:19

time. Yes, that's exactly what I was

5:21

thinking. Matt just has to improv everything.

5:23

Yeah. Which do, instead of like passing

5:25

it between the three of us, you

5:28

finish a power oven, you just nod

5:30

at Tim and Tim like, continue. And

5:32

then Bob walks down the street down

5:34

the street to the, fuck. Oh, that's

5:37

that's a... That's not the twist, folks.

5:39

No, I mean, I mean, I mean,

5:41

I mean, that's that improv game, change.

5:43

He went to the station, change, you

5:46

went to the airport. Okay, and at

5:48

the airport, he did fucking close-up magic.

5:50

Good lord. Change? No, if it's dead

5:52

reckoning, that carries on. Oh, well, that's

5:55

not the twist, folks. We will have

5:57

a twist for season 15. Yes. Also,

5:59

basically can... the day we're

6:01

recording this, potentially very exciting crossover

6:03

happening, has a little Christmas treat

6:05

for you, which might even come

6:08

out basically on Christmas Eve. So

6:10

if you want a little special

6:12

Christmas tree, if all goes according

6:14

to plan, we'll go according to

6:16

plan. We will reveal all and...

6:18

He's been emailing us. Zach Snide

6:20

or on the show? Who knew?

6:22

I thought you meant Santa. He's

6:24

one of the same. He's not

6:26

one of the same. Isn't talking

6:28

to me anymore. Yeah, JK Simmons.

6:32

Ah, red one. What could go

6:34

wrong with that maybe? That cost

6:36

more than basically every other film

6:38

ever made. More than the GDP

6:40

of Belgium. Yeah. More money than

6:42

we'll ever understand. Oh God. Speaking

6:44

of more money than we'll ever

6:46

understand. Ten pounds a month. Gets

6:48

new bonus content, including, as I

6:51

mentioned, movie commentaries will be happening

6:53

for season 15 and for the

6:55

Christmas. We've got some gems picked

6:57

out for season 15. Fuckin. I

6:59

remember Matt picked one and then

7:01

realized, that means we have to

7:03

watch that one twice. I'm like,

7:05

oh, fuck. The things that I'm,

7:07

having seen all of them, I'm

7:09

like, oh no. Well, like said,

7:11

you get all the movie commentaries,

7:13

you'll get all of the DVD

7:15

extras when it comes back around

7:17

to season 15, and you get

7:19

all the archive of the previous

7:21

DVD extras and bonus content as

7:23

well. So you just have. access

7:25

to I think it's like 300

7:27

hours of or 200 hours of

7:29

bonus stuff. It's absolutely ridiculous. I

7:31

saw the tags on our Patreon

7:33

post the other day because I

7:35

was creating the collection of all

7:37

the things because we now have

7:39

collections on our patron page. So

7:41

if you want to go and

7:43

check out the entire archive. move

7:45

over to that little tab either

7:47

on your app or on the

7:49

desktop version on the website and

7:52

there is every single piece of

7:54

bonus content in one long feed

7:56

you can chuck that RSS feed

7:58

into your podcast player of choice

8:00

and get it all straight away

8:02

it's very nice and simple you

8:04

get what five years nearly of

8:06

yeah all the crazy we've talked

8:08

about all the way back since

8:10

like season 5 to nearly season

8:12

15, 10 seasons of bonus content.

8:14

From Batman, the Dark Knight, the

8:16

Dark Knight Rise, that's quite insane.

8:18

Yeah, that's mad. And since we're

8:20

in the interseason, you get exclusive

8:22

interseason episodes as well, they are

8:24

full proper interseason episodes, we don't

8:26

half ask that shit either. And

8:28

of course, if you go to

8:30

the 20 pound here, you get

8:32

exclusive merch we're working on. Like

8:34

I said, stuff for hopefully around

8:36

sort of Christmas, he's all the

8:38

time, maybe early next year, our

8:40

next merch release with the one

8:42

and only John's character, who we

8:44

always work with, does all of

8:46

our fantastic episode art and does

8:48

all of our merch designs as

8:50

well. I'm fascinated to see what

8:52

John's going to come up with.

8:55

We've got a couple of ideas

8:57

bouncing around. I'm intrigued to see

8:59

what kind of art he's going

9:01

to do for some of these

9:03

season 15 films. I'm terrified of

9:05

some options already. He's illustrated the

9:07

You Can't Be Trust Episode things.

9:09

No, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. We've got

9:11

some crazy tongues and all kinds

9:13

of the thing, whatnot. Dog caterpillars.

9:15

That too. Yeah. If you go

9:17

to the 30 pound tier, you

9:19

become an executive producer. That means

9:21

you get all the previous stuff.

9:23

I mentioned John's characters now. You

9:25

can get your avatar. Drawn by

9:27

John's carrot. Not that avatar, the

9:29

airbender one, or the James Cameron

9:31

six film series avatar one. You

9:33

can get one. You could get

9:35

a big prehensile sex hair or

9:37

something from James Cameron's avatar. I

9:39

don't want to ever see us

9:41

as Navi, but one day, who

9:43

knows? Yeah, or Skybison, who knows?

9:45

Oh, have happened, yeah. We just

9:47

need to paint a big arrow

9:49

on your head. Matt and we're

9:51

halfway there. He's not wrong. I

9:53

give a lot tens and energy.

9:56

Yeah. Legend of... Just move on.

9:58

We'll move on to talking about

10:00

the EPs. Like I said, you

10:02

get all of that stuff, you

10:04

get the... if you want to

10:06

use it on your social media

10:08

platforms of choice. It's been a

10:10

massive migration to Blue Sky at

10:12

the time of recording. Basically everyone

10:14

has swapped over to their essence.

10:16

Somebody was saying, don't you don't

10:18

post on Twitter anymore? What's the

10:20

plan? I'm posting pretty regularly on

10:22

Blue Sky now. It feels like

10:24

Twitter did 10 years ago, which

10:26

is quite nice. I know some

10:28

of you. We might fire up

10:30

the old, we camped out the

10:32

sequel. We camped out the handles.

10:34

As well as all of that,

10:36

you get a shout out on

10:38

the show and a clip to

10:40

go along with you. What the

10:42

fuck kind of clips are we

10:44

getting here? Tim, do you all

10:46

read it? Oh, Christ. Your choice

10:48

of clips? Yep. Let's just say

10:50

it's a game of two halves.

10:52

Oh, I'm assuming. Football. Criminal assholes.

10:54

Indeed. Well, let's find out. Speaking

10:56

of criminal art holes. It's Colin

10:59

Thompson. So I was never really

11:01

able to tell the story that

11:03

I wanted to tell. I had

11:05

to self-censor the story down to

11:07

something I knew could be done

11:09

given the technology I had available.

11:11

That's how I feel about most

11:13

of my pictures. You're always self-censoring

11:15

Jack. Especially to, with the technology

11:17

we have available to us, it's

11:19

just a roadcaster too. I think

11:21

you're like writing with your hands.

11:23

That's it. I only have so

11:25

many opposable thumbs. Yeah, it's like

11:27

a point. Jack's getting one of

11:29

those brain implants as soon as

11:31

he can, so you can just

11:33

think his pitches into existence. Using

11:35

Grock, whatever the fuck it is.

11:37

Yeah. The Twitter bot thing. Next

11:39

up, it's Marcus Lindstrom. On Dune,

11:41

I started selling out even in

11:43

the script phase, knowing I didn't

11:45

have Final Cut, and I sold

11:47

out. To get Final Cut Pro,

11:49

Dave, I love the Trump I

11:51

saw you right out. I do

11:53

love very brief, tangent, the what

11:55

time of day is it, what

11:57

day of the year is it,

12:00

David Lynch? Like, fake. fake thing

12:02

that people generate. It's so fucking

12:04

weird. Next up we have, okay,

12:06

this Rufus. Films like Return of

12:08

the King, King Kong, or The

12:10

Hobbit have got over 2,000 CGI

12:12

shots in them, fellowship of the

12:14

ring has 550. So a lot

12:16

of it was done practically, the

12:18

good old days, hey? You're okay,

12:20

just saying that Peter. Yeah, you

12:22

know what you did. So everyone

12:24

I made good films. Vaguely, Pete,

12:26

Pete, yeah, vaguely. Mm. Worrying how

12:28

many directors are like, I remember

12:30

when, everyone I was good. Maybe

12:32

just leave it the fuck alone.

12:34

You mean in the previous millennium,

12:36

most of you motherfakers? Anyway, it's

12:38

Josh Maderslice. For me, it's part

12:40

of the course, you know, it's

12:42

what I do, and I think

12:44

I prefer this kind of scale,

12:46

because what I like to do,

12:48

and probably I'm more known for

12:50

doing, is creating worlds. I

12:55

mean, you know for being the guy

12:57

who did the Hobbes advert. I spiked

12:59

all the way down that ill. Here

13:01

I am. And now I'm going to

13:03

make some movies about everything. Some of

13:05

the best movies all time. Some of

13:07

the worst movies all time. Some of

13:09

the worst movies all time. Some Midlands

13:12

movies. Some movies about Russell Crow, drinking

13:14

wine. Yep. Oh

13:17

God, a good year is a weird

13:19

movie. And the last EP of this

13:21

week is McBreen. I never thought my

13:23

cut would see the light of day,

13:25

and maybe rightly so. You know, the

13:28

picture came out. It was what it

13:30

was. It wasn't the original director's cut,

13:32

but it was a fellow I forget

13:34

his name on purpose who took over.

13:36

It was 25 years ago. Don

13:39

was one of the only ones on

13:41

that, I'm like, yeah, he's all right.

13:43

I got his name on purpose. Yeah.

13:46

Yeah. That's a, there's a recently was

13:48

an interview with Alan Turdick, who was

13:50

doing like a last meal thing. Oh,

13:52

the last meal thing's on the bicycle

13:54

kitchen. Yeah. And he was bringing about

13:56

how he was fired from a burrito

13:58

place by a guy called Ron. Yeah.

14:02

dead. I was like, Jesus Christ,

14:04

alive or dead? Wrong. You dead.

14:06

You remember something blue, fuck you

14:08

over. Yeah, yeah. That doesn't sum

14:10

up Hollywood over the last 100

14:12

years. Always remember the people that

14:14

fuck you over. Speaking of people

14:16

who fuck us over. It's the

14:18

VIPs. Thank you for the segue

14:20

there, Tim, because they pick terrible

14:22

topics for us to discuss. And

14:24

terrible sequels for us to fix.

14:26

We've already got their picks in

14:28

for season 15, despite their attempt

14:30

at some sort of dog mutiny.

14:32

Yeah. The dog coo is some

14:34

bullshit because I was canine coo,

14:36

please ma'am. That's what I call

14:38

it. I will not give him

14:40

that. I'm going to have to

14:42

write this and I'm going to

14:44

make that work. I was already

14:46

writing pictures motherfuckers. I was so

14:48

angry. I was angrily writing, fuck

14:50

you and your dogs. And your

14:52

little dog too. First scene, a

14:54

man kicks a man kicks a

14:56

dog in the face and body.

14:59

What's that the next movie? Copy and paste.

15:01

Yeah. Honestly, we need a... I'll show you

15:04

a fucking dog's purpose. Sure, God. We nearly

15:06

had half a season of dog movies, everybody.

15:08

Yeah, they were partly taking the piss. Yeah.

15:10

A couple of them were like, oh, I'd

15:13

still like to do the dog movie though.

15:15

It's like, fuck off. You burn that bridge

15:17

already. Yeah. If you wanted to do the

15:19

dog movie, then don't make a big fucking

15:22

joke of it. You bit the hand that

15:24

fed you and uh... Shit all over the

15:26

carpet. Yeah, and I'm going to put you

15:28

down. We have to old yell out of

15:31

the movies, take them outside the back of

15:33

the patron and put them out of their

15:35

mirrors. And I'll put them out of their

15:38

misery by playing some clips for somebody like

15:40

Stuart Maine. You know, I wanted to make

15:42

a movie that was the way I saw

15:44

it now and not follow the rules, so

15:47

to speak, because, you know, I mean, there's

15:49

a line in the movie, when you jump

15:51

into the unknown, you prove you are free.

15:53

Well, as an artist, I want to be

15:56

free. Free to do what? Yeah, Francis. Free

15:58

to do what? You're Emma so... Fuck.

16:01

Next up, it's Guy Footon. I

16:03

think that Ryan Reynolds, Kate thinks

16:05

he hates, he's like, Kate thinks

16:07

he's superfrenomy with me or even

16:09

just that he hates me. I

16:12

could see him hating me. Hating

16:14

Eugene, surely not. All the people

16:16

do. Next up, it's Hyper-Dubman. I

16:18

think before all this stuff happened,

16:20

I was quite reckless. Yeah. With

16:23

my life and with my privacy

16:25

and with my ego and with

16:27

my everything. I was just like,

16:29

hey, everybody look, you know, look

16:31

at this, look at everything. And

16:34

I was just letting it all

16:36

out. Fucking Jesus. That sounds like

16:38

multiple people, who's that? Let me

16:40

see, K. Oh, is it? Fuck,

16:42

you know. He did certainly, he

16:44

didn't let it all out and

16:47

you know, look at Bacon for

16:49

a minute. As far as I

16:51

know, Kevin Bacon hasn't been handled.

16:53

Yeah, no, but he's doing a

16:55

lot of E.E. commercials. That's true.

16:58

Some equivalents. No, no. It's better

17:00

than what these folks have been

17:02

asking. Oh, yeah, they're monsters. Next

17:04

up, it's Philip Morgan. The imitation

17:06

came. You know, the king's speech,

17:09

the stuttering king, you know, the

17:11

lion. To me, I'm still the

17:13

underdog. I felt that way when

17:15

I was young. And sometimes I

17:17

still feel that way. No. No.

17:20

Just no. I haven't ever been

17:22

known to talk. Fuck me. Next

17:24

up is Tyler Pasco. A gigantic

17:26

industry has been built on a

17:28

total non-event and when I say

17:31

a total non-event I mean a

17:33

total non-event it wasn't it wasn't

17:35

as if you know I tickled

17:37

my daughter or something and much

17:39

has been exaggerated. We should have

17:41

seen the reaction in the room

17:44

there folks that are like, tickle

17:46

my daughter. Tickling wasn't, no, marrying

17:48

was the, maybe the issue I

17:50

think, fucking creep. You may notice

17:52

a pattern so far already. Yeah,

17:55

men. Not saying that women can't

17:57

be, you know, all people, but

17:59

in this particular roster. Yeah. I

18:01

like young women, let's put it

18:03

this way, I think most of

18:06

men to Earth,

18:08

Josh Miles. Yeah, but the

18:10

like young women. Let's put

18:12

it this way. how think you,

18:14

doesn't it? Yeah but the

18:16

question the question here you

18:18

come to a concrete to which

18:21

I have been behind the

18:23

which I have been what you bars and

18:25

that's what you want to talk

18:27

about it. it. I really hope there's like

18:29

some sort of like some sort

18:31

in the background there. in the going

18:33

on that there's like you're going on that spit you fuck.

18:35

Oh God last but certainly not least,

18:38

it's the not that has picked

18:40

this topic. For us to discuss

18:42

this week, it is to discuss this week. It

18:44

is know what you want. I know what you

18:46

want. Oh sure they may have tried to

18:48

separate us, but what we have

18:50

is too strong, too too powerful. too mean,

18:52

after all, we shared everything, you

18:54

and I. you and I. I told you my

18:57

deepest, darkest secrets. Nope, I I showed

18:59

you exactly what people are capable

19:01

of. of. God's sake, there's

19:03

such a - a... of all the PR the

19:05

PR moves, a fucking a fucking weird

19:07

one. is just I need to My skin is

19:09

just it's crawled away need to put

19:11

it back on. him. All away somewhere. deeply

19:13

Oh, thanks to him. Like, it's

19:15

deeply uncomfortable and depressed. to that shit in

19:17

the the first but the first We'll get

19:19

to that shit in the second half, but the

19:22

first half a little different Well, thank you, Well, thank

19:24

you you, and thank you who supports some patron who. Thanks

19:26

James, I think. we start that? Should we start

19:28

that? Let's let's keep things we start you wrote

19:30

this down or more I believe you

19:32

wrote this down it more accurately didn't

19:34

pasted it. art from artists and then contemporary as

19:36

jack a highlight at the top the top the episode,

19:38

that tends to mean one thing. And we'll

19:41

we'll take a very specific example, J

19:43

.K. Rowling, And how it's like, oh, I

19:45

can't like Harry Potter anymore anymore .K. Rowling

19:47

is a piece of shit. a piece And

19:49

there's a whole question of whole how

19:51

much you need to enjoy a thing or

19:53

don't enjoy a thing and how much you

19:55

can enjoy. you can enjoy. that in the second

19:57

the second half had in fact had, in fact, two

19:59

subjects. talk about under

20:01

this umbrella. Yes. So I

20:04

believe this is this is

20:06

a verbatim quote. I might

20:09

I might be wrong. Jesus

20:11

Tim. So

20:13

he asked for a conversation about

20:16

directors going back and tinkering with

20:18

works they are already that are

20:20

already released. Can you enjoy art

20:22

made by terrible people? So yeah,

20:24

it's kind of a twofold question

20:26

there. Yeah. Because both are separating

20:28

the art from the artist. It's

20:31

just in one case, it's the

20:33

artist that won't let go of

20:35

the art. And in the other

20:37

case, it's us. Artists being too

20:39

hands. Well, yeah, but also like

20:41

the more metaphorical separating the art

20:43

from the artist of can you

20:46

view this art apart from an

20:48

artist, especially when they have done

20:50

some awful things. And that is

20:52

something I think, like I said,

20:54

we talk about a lot on

20:56

this podcast, but we are very

20:58

much just a reflection of wider

21:01

discussions that happening. in cinema, right?

21:03

And this is a thing, as

21:05

we go back and we've thoroughly

21:07

been accused of this in one-style

21:09

reviews on Apple Podcast and stuff

21:11

like that, like, oh, these bunch

21:13

of fucking woke nerds going back

21:16

and reanalyzing stuff for back in

21:18

the day and all that kind

21:20

of thing. And yes, hello, we're

21:22

woke, sure, if that means we're

21:24

socially aware and allies to people

21:26

in minority groups and all that

21:28

kind of stuff. But like you

21:31

said, Tim, there's the other side

21:33

to it as well, where, where

21:35

it comes to understanding creators and

21:37

whether that's the actors involved whether

21:39

that's the directors the writers what

21:41

we put into our pitches like

21:43

if somebody has a disagreement with

21:46

us and we are creating something

21:48

and we've all done also writing

21:50

in our own time as well

21:52

you inherently bring your values your

21:54

biases your politics your beliefs all

21:56

this kind of stuff even if

21:58

you're purposefully trying to take something

22:01

outside of your even there was

22:03

a very, very heated debate on

22:05

the discord. I think it was

22:07

a couple years ago at this

22:09

point about the whole, everything is

22:11

politics. No matter what you do,

22:13

somebody who has opinions about things

22:16

made that thing, therefore politics. So

22:18

extracting the creator from the thing

22:20

is very difficult in most cases.

22:22

Yeah, somebody said if you don't

22:24

fuck with politics, it means you

22:26

don't know it in your life

22:28

that's had politics, fuck with them.

22:31

Yeah, we go. Exactly. But it's

22:33

a big issue because it also

22:35

gets into, you know, it's very

22:37

easy to kind of say like,

22:39

well, you know, like you said,

22:41

like an artist's politics will inevitably

22:43

impact on the art that they

22:46

make. Of course they will. And

22:48

especially when you look at things

22:50

like, you know, writing or whatever,

22:52

you're going to channel your worldview

22:54

into them. But that then means

22:56

that we feel like we know

22:58

the people who make these things.

23:01

and there is an element of

23:03

the parall social relationship here which

23:05

impacts both the bit that we'll

23:07

get to in the second half

23:09

of people being terrible but also

23:11

watching people come back and you

23:13

know fiddle. Re-edit, bring out new

23:16

editions of work that they have

23:18

previously, you know, put out into

23:20

the world. And if you have

23:22

an emotional relationship with that piece

23:24

of art, and a, you, you

23:26

have in some way, you know,

23:28

taken that thing on board, and,

23:31

you know, we are three people

23:33

who are passionate about films. There

23:35

are films there that mean a

23:37

huge amount to us. And if

23:39

the creator then comes along and

23:41

goes, actually, that wasn't the version

23:43

I wanted to make. Here's the

23:46

version I wanted to make. Like,

23:48

there are, it is a emotive

23:50

topic because they're essentially saying, like,

23:52

hey, that thing that you love,

23:54

that wasn't what I meant to

23:56

do. Yeah. because, and we'll get

23:58

into this more, the people who

24:01

tend to do this are directors

24:03

in terms of remaking films, it's

24:05

either a faceless corporation that does

24:07

it or its directors. And we,

24:09

and I mean that both as

24:11

a podcast, but also in terms

24:13

of how critics tend to talk

24:16

about film, very much approached stuff

24:18

through or ter theory, which basically

24:20

means we go, the directors in

24:22

charge of the film, so that

24:24

the film is theirs. But in

24:26

reality, a film is a huge

24:28

collaborative medium. Like, you know, there's

24:31

a quote. You said through the

24:33

fucking credits. Yes, exactly. Yeah, you,

24:35

all of those people had a

24:37

hand on the ball, you know,

24:39

and there is no way of

24:41

knowing which particular one made the

24:43

creative decisions that made that piece

24:46

of art so impactful to you.

24:48

And so when a director comes

24:50

along and goes, like, actually, that

24:52

wasn't the film I wanted to

24:54

make. There is some element of

24:56

it that I wasn't happy with.

24:58

Maybe it's a technology thing, maybe

25:01

it's an edit, maybe it's a

25:03

plot thread that got ejected or

25:05

a character that they wanted to

25:07

have more of a focus or

25:09

even particular performances where there was

25:11

another take that I thought was

25:13

better, but because of a, you

25:15

know, lighting thing. We couldn't put

25:18

it in the film, but now

25:20

with CGI we can fix that

25:22

and I can put in the

25:24

tape that I really wanted to.

25:26

And, you know, it's essentially them

25:28

busting in and going like, hey,

25:30

I'm gonna change the relationship you

25:33

have with that move. And it's

25:35

a disruptive thing. And, you know,

25:37

it's no matter, even on the

25:39

most mundane end of this topic

25:41

where we're not talking about people

25:43

who've done awful things. it's still

25:45

talking about people like changing your

25:48

relationship with a piece of media.

25:50

I would agree with that and

25:52

go a little further to him.

25:54

I think both halves, both halves.

25:56

about people exerting

25:58

their power over

26:00

other people. one hand,

26:03

with the one

26:05

hand, half, the second

26:07

abuse, whether that's being aggressive

26:09

or whether that's being aggressive

26:11

or sexually inappropriate, be. But to

26:13

be. first in the first half it's the idea that

26:16

to quote Nicholas Ray, from maker

26:18

from the 40s and 50s and

26:20

such, such. No one one person makes a film

26:22

on their own, You can kind of do it. But in

26:24

the 50s, you of do it. fucking

26:27

in the it. It was not couldn't do do. So not

26:29

a thing you could do makes

26:31

a so there is no one person makes a

26:33

movie. has no one big ego. Everybody has

26:35

an important job. Everyone does that job properly,

26:37

et cetera, et cetera. The is is

26:39

you at the manager as it as .e.

26:41

the director. the director. and say, well, it's

26:43

on your fucking watch, dickhead. You let

26:45

this slide by, you're by, you're culpable.

26:48

oh, but you were the, he was a boom ah, guy

26:50

on this film. You knew what was guy on

26:52

this film. say You knew what

26:54

was happening and you didn't say anything. talking about here?

26:56

Because technically are we talking about here? Because technically

26:58

speaking, if you work to Tim, we were I gave to

27:01

Tim, as we were talking in the discussion

27:03

beforehand. if you work you in a shop and the

27:05

a piece of a piece of shit, how do you

27:07

intervene? it's not And it's not even a sense

27:09

of oh, what do you mean of shit? like of shit? the

27:11

system the And then saying, and this saying, you

27:13

know, he's like you know, he's like cutting money off

27:15

the top of the tables or whatever or

27:17

just literally not turning up and doing their

27:19

job their job for pressing on, to their job.

27:21

So for example, it's like, example, it's like, oh,

27:24

well, what about art from art from artists?

27:26

In my opinion, and was

27:28

the thing the about, I've talked

27:30

about, paintings in this regard. Once

27:32

in is done, once

27:34

you press once you send, save,

27:37

a canvas. it It is

27:39

no longer yours, Yes. It it now

27:41

belongs to the public. Yeah, the The difference

27:43

is is want to go, want to a

27:45

scene in Mr. Turner, oddly enough. in Mr.

27:47

Turner, character is playing. where Timothy

27:50

Spalls the playing

27:52

the he's unhappy with his painting.

27:54

and he's at it in a gallery. his

27:57

painting, he's staring at

27:59

artist. a gallery. at it and

28:01

he goes, no, no, I fuck this

28:03

one, gets a paintbrush, goes, puts a

28:05

big red blob in it and goes,

28:07

oh he's just bloody ruined it, like

28:09

ridiculous. Takes a handkerchief, wipes it off

28:11

and goes, oh my god, it's a

28:13

buoy. And now it's complete. It's like,

28:15

yeah, but it was already in the

28:17

fucking gallery. You were done with it.

28:19

And this is something about if you

28:21

have an artisticic bone in your body.

28:23

you will break something by tinkering at

28:25

some point, you have to be told,

28:27

step the fuck back. Yeah, because you

28:29

will just keep tinkering, keep messing with

28:31

it, keep releasing it, and it just

28:33

ends up being nothing or just breaks

28:35

down. And when it's a big collaborative

28:37

project, to bring up that Nicholas Rayquot

28:39

again, you have these deadlines, you have

28:41

these external forces. In truth, the only

28:43

thing you have full control over is,

28:46

weirdly enough, a painting or a book.

28:48

You have like I'm written this whole

28:50

thing and any publisher might make changes

28:52

as an editor or something. But with

28:54

a film, there's no real one person

28:56

who makes all the decisions all the

28:58

stuff and you know with digital art.

29:00

There's obviously ways to do that sort

29:02

of thing. But for the most part,

29:04

there's so many creative controls. So when

29:06

somebody says, I want to make a

29:08

change because it wasn't what I wanted

29:10

a different take on, it's in different

29:12

CGI, I didn't want this, I didn't

29:14

want that and then pay for it.

29:16

the studio didn't let me do X,

29:18

Y, Z. You were exerting that control

29:20

over anybody who did the job previously,

29:22

so why didn't we get it right

29:24

the first fucking time? What was the

29:26

fucking problem? And why are you now

29:28

able to go back and do it?

29:30

And sometimes you'll go, George. You dick?

29:32

I don't need to see the giant

29:34

slug man. going, oh, I've seen your

29:37

ship, well, let's have a conversation, oh

29:39

no, he walks behind him, I have

29:41

to figure this out. And sometimes it

29:43

was like the Richard Donaker of Superman

29:45

too, you're like, actually, you know what,

29:47

fair play, or a touch of evil

29:49

by Awesome Wells, you're like, yep, that's

29:51

the version that should have come out,

29:53

but obviously the studio were cowards and

29:55

assholes. So there are always times you

29:57

think. Yes, is it justified or not,

29:59

but you still have to exert that

30:01

control because it's, or they're exerting that

30:03

control, I should say, sorry, because if

30:05

an act is unhappy with it, how

30:07

often are they going to say, I'd

30:09

like to do that again, please? Or

30:11

if a sound person. gosh, we're getting

30:13

brutalized for Tenet Sound, because Nolan doesn't,

30:15

isn't aware or doesn't seem to give

30:17

a shit. The fucking ADR sound people

30:19

on the Dark Knight Rises. Do they

30:21

get to do an alternate cut of

30:23

the Dark Knight Rises where actually sounds

30:25

proper? No. And as Nolan wants to,

30:28

or in the studio said so, and

30:30

that was come back down to the

30:32

whole idea of, will I be able

30:34

to make money off this as a

30:36

re-release, that kind of thing? You even

30:38

get like fan edits it. Very briefly

30:40

after the Obie One Canoebe series came

30:42

out on Disney Plus, everybody was like,

30:44

this was supposed to be a film,

30:46

right? Why have you done six episodes

30:48

of a TV show? This clearly should

30:50

have been a movie. Someone edited it

30:52

into like two hours and 20 minutes,

30:54

cut out a lot of the crap.

30:56

And was like, here's the Obie One

30:58

Canoe movie movie we never got. Yeah,

31:00

I guess it's kind of low budget

31:02

and stuff, but it definitely flows better

31:04

and the pacing's better when there was

31:06

like some obviously very questionable licensing for

31:08

releasing that. They're like, we're making no

31:10

money off this, we're just downloading it,

31:12

just download the MP4, you'll be fine.

31:14

I think that's how that works. But

31:16

like you said, you get parody, parody,

31:19

parody, parody. Yeah, yeah. You get to

31:21

that point where, like you said about

31:23

it, as soon as you release a

31:25

release a thing, it is now, it

31:27

is now the audiences to interpret how

31:29

they want to interpret how they want

31:31

to interpret how they want to take.

31:33

whatever message they bring to that experience.

31:35

And there's a phrase that I know

31:37

is very common with creatives, and it's

31:39

been attributed to many people over the

31:41

years, is that the work of art

31:43

is never truly finished, it's abandoned. And

31:45

so many people would say, oh yeah,

31:47

I could sit around and just edit

31:49

this sentence and this novel over and

31:51

over again, and I'll go, oh, and

31:53

you need to edit this chapter, and

31:55

then I'll edit that, just constantly tweak

31:57

and tweak and tweak and tweak, where

31:59

we have seen things just get stuck

32:01

in production hell forever. Oh that film

32:03

they had had the license for this

32:05

franchise or the adaptation of this book

32:07

or whatever for 15 years. Why haven't

32:10

they done anything with it? Oh well

32:12

so it was originally this writer and

32:14

then that script was dropped and there

32:16

was a attached to it but then

32:18

the director left and they got another

32:20

director and they left again and then

32:22

he did another rewrite like maybe don't

32:24

maybe put that on the back shelf

32:26

for another 10 years and come back

32:28

to it later. I mean we're seeing

32:30

it currently with Blade with Marvel right

32:32

with the MCU stuff like How many

32:34

directors do you want to go through?

32:36

How many times does Mahashali have to

32:38

say, I don't know what's going on,

32:40

I'm probably not going to be fucking

32:42

played at this point, who knows? And

32:44

we see this so often when it

32:46

comes to the sequels we talk about

32:48

on this show as well. You see

32:50

this, we've done multiple episodes about legacy

32:52

sequels that take 30, 40 years to

32:54

come out after the original one. And

32:56

sometimes you're fucking strike gold, but many

32:58

times you don't. And that can definitely

33:01

be through a new creator taking on

33:03

that project and sometimes, hello George, it's

33:05

somebody going back to the original thing

33:07

they did 20, 30 years later and

33:09

being, oh no, I'll redo this thing

33:11

or I'll tweak this thing I know

33:13

we've talked about, directors cuts in the

33:15

past as well. I can't remember when

33:17

we talked about, I think it was

33:19

the Apocalypse now, directors cut that is

33:21

like fucking six hours long or whatever

33:23

it's like. Reducks is not good. Maybe

33:25

don't do reducks. Just, it's a great

33:27

film, like fucking brilliant film. We don't

33:29

need an extra three hours of this

33:31

shit. The thing is that you are

33:33

not, you are not the same creator

33:35

you were in that moment. A complete

33:37

bit of a tangent here, but there's

33:39

a letter that 15 year old Stephen

33:41

Fry wrote to his future self. Oh,

33:43

yeah, yeah, yeah. So because when he's

33:45

first started to realize he was gay

33:47

and saying it was very impassioned and

33:49

he was apparently in an interview saying

33:52

he's streaming the tears writing it saying

33:54

listen here you of the future you

33:56

might crumps this letter up and throw

33:58

it away but I am the most

34:00

me now everything after this is a

34:02

betrayal of what I am and it's

34:04

like wow it's fucking powerful man. It

34:06

gives you, I think, the fear of

34:08

like, oh, well, you'll just, you know,

34:10

go for something passing and just deny

34:12

your sexuality, wherever it happens to be.

34:14

But that angry shouting into the future,

34:16

an old man who will end up

34:18

being you, oh yeah I absolutely believe

34:20

Ridley Scott go back and do a

34:22

fucking alien film or a blade or

34:24

a film and we do this as

34:26

Jack said on the show it's like

34:28

oh no they can actually do it

34:30

because they did before yeah but that's

34:32

like saying I used to be able

34:34

to climb up the stairs really fucking

34:36

well and you know a 50 year

34:38

old man going I was good at

34:40

this yeah yeah you were I used

34:43

to buy a fucking rugby. I'd die

34:45

if I don't ever rugby now. That's

34:47

kind of the point. It's the, that

34:49

hubris, that change, that evolution can give

34:51

a bit of insight. Like, I was

34:53

a bit too fucking arrogant. I was

34:55

too cocky. I should have done better.

34:57

But that really extends to a very

34:59

small handful of people on the creative

35:01

team because as we said before, how

35:03

many people are afforded the opportunity and

35:05

the privilege to do that. And that

35:07

comes back to a licensing rights, who

35:09

owns this film. We say about, you

35:11

know, the public own the films, yeah,

35:13

but the studio own the film. There's

35:15

the metaphorical own the film and there's

35:17

the actual own the film. Then there's

35:19

the mouse. Yeah. Yeah, I think hubris

35:21

is an excellent thing to talk about

35:23

because there is something, you know, about

35:25

these creators who are like, no, it's,

35:27

it's, it's a, there's an arrogance to

35:29

it, which is that, and, and to

35:31

a certain degree, it's true, if you're,

35:34

as soon as you get, you know,

35:36

to kind of like, I think. even

35:38

mid-twenties, you can kind of look back

35:40

at earlier periods of your life and

35:42

go like, oh, I was such a

35:44

dumb kid back then. And then, and

35:46

then the, you know, the further on

35:48

in your life, the more you have

35:50

to look back on and go, oh,

35:52

such a dumb kid back then. And,

35:54

you know, if you're a filmmaker, it's

35:56

very easy to look back at earlier

35:58

things and go, oh, there's so many

36:00

things on that I would do different,

36:02

that I would do different periods of

36:04

your life. But now, now I'm as

36:06

smart as I'll ever be. There it

36:08

is. And I'll get it right this

36:10

time. Whereas, you know, I'm sure if

36:12

I can, even George Lucas man rotating

36:14

up his own butt hole as he

36:16

is. Like, I'm sure. he can look

36:18

back at the prequels or the special

36:20

editions now and go like, actually I

36:22

shouldn't have fucking put Jabber in. Spielberg

36:25

and E.T. Yeah, this is absolutely what

36:27

I should be doing. Then a little

36:29

bit later, okay, maybe I shouldn't have

36:31

done that. Exactly, dickhead. Yeah. And it's

36:33

like, surely you would be so much

36:35

better putting that energy into making new

36:37

projects with your new perspective and letting

36:39

the original live in its integrity. Because,

36:41

you know, the thing is, is that

36:43

yes, you are a different person than

36:45

you were 10, 15, even five years

36:47

ago. But that piece of art that

36:49

you made then speaks, spoke to that

36:51

person. It was a product of that

36:53

person. and also all those other people

36:55

that you fucking worked with. And like

36:57

we've said, they don't get to go

36:59

back and go, oh yeah, I'm blacked

37:01

up, can I not do that please?

37:03

Yeah. Or just like, I'm a better

37:05

actor than I was 10 years ago,

37:07

can I have another run at that

37:09

scene? It's like, no, you don't get

37:11

to do that. And again, for the

37:13

most part, we are, when people are

37:16

doing these new additions and extended additions

37:18

and directors cuts and stuff like that

37:20

like that. Up until very recently, it

37:22

wasn't that you could shoot new footage.

37:24

What you were essentially talking about was

37:26

a re-edit using possibly previously unseen footage.

37:28

Yes. And obviously a blade runner director's

37:30

card. Blade runner director's card. It's a

37:32

classic example. And like, and blade runner

37:34

final cut being the whole like, I'm

37:36

going to put that CGI roof in

37:38

now. Yeah. Get me the unicorn from

37:40

legend. Yeah. Okay. And it's interesting because

37:42

as much as the DVD age. enabled

37:44

people to be like, oh, okay, we're

37:46

going to put out a director's cut

37:48

now and and and there will be

37:50

this audience for it. People will buy

37:52

both editions ha ha ha ha. Money

37:54

money money. But it also meant that

37:56

you had films that would come out

37:58

and it's like, here's the deleted scenes

38:00

and but previously those would just sit

38:02

in a vault somewhere and then maybe

38:04

some, you know, know, 20 years on,

38:07

someone will be like, oh, actually, yeah,

38:09

we're gonna, we're gonna make an extended

38:11

edition of a director's cut or whatever.

38:13

It's like, now if you did that,

38:15

I mean, now we've background to that

38:17

stuff, not getting released, because for a

38:19

chunk of time, if you try to

38:21

then do that, you'd be like, yeah,

38:23

but we've seen all of this stuff.

38:25

Like. You know, they go straight up

38:27

on YouTube. Yeah, exactly. You know, fucking,

38:29

you can't really do a director's cut

38:31

of Anchaman because they released the entire

38:33

extra bonus footage as a whole other

38:35

film. Like, you know, it's not like

38:37

they can go back and go like,

38:39

ah, now we'll recut it and people

38:41

will be really surprised. It's like, no,

38:43

because we've already seen all the alternate

38:45

takes for that, for those jokes. or

38:47

DVD extras on a whole other film

38:49

that you released and you know, etc,

38:51

etc. So it's a fascinating because for

38:53

so long that, you know, a special

38:56

edition, a director's edition, you were playing

38:58

around with the tools that you already

39:00

had. So essentially what you were doing

39:02

was re-editing the film. Now, with CGI,

39:04

with, you know, all of these extra

39:06

tools, and with, you know, reshoots of

39:08

all always existed. Yeah. But they are,

39:10

we as an audience are more aware

39:12

of them now. and the degree to

39:14

which films can be changed in the

39:16

edit and stuff like that is becoming

39:18

more apparent, especially when they are so

39:20

reliant on special effects and you can

39:22

completely overhaul the special effects for a

39:24

film if you've got especially if you've

39:26

got the raw footage sitting around. Like

39:28

there are these additional tools and I

39:30

think it's only going to get more

39:32

and more tempting for directors to go

39:34

back and go like. Yeah, it looked

39:36

great at the time, but you know,

39:38

CGI's moved on. Why don't I do

39:40

a new special education? Why don't, you

39:42

know, why don't I take, you know,

39:44

independence day and redo all the special

39:47

effects for it? And it's like, because

39:49

they were groundbreaking at the time and

39:51

you was in miniatures and all this

39:53

kind of stuff and like, we don't

39:55

really need to see. CIGI redone on

39:57

it. Because that only is as good

39:59

as it is now. Exactly. And that's

40:01

what you'll always pick in this moment

40:03

in time. You have a film that

40:05

was look good for the 70s that

40:07

suddenly has this weird, blodgy CIGI in

40:09

the middle that ends up going, no,

40:11

I hate that. Yeah, you're always up

40:13

against the limit of where technology is

40:15

today. So you might as well preserve

40:17

the integrity of what you had at

40:19

the time and leave it. You're wiser

40:21

or more knowledgeable than you've ever been

40:23

in your life at this moment right

40:25

now. You're also the most stupid you

40:27

will ever be for the future. Like

40:29

34 year old Jack is so much

40:31

wiser than 24 or 14 or four

40:33

year old Jack. But just think about

40:35

35 or 44 or 45 or 65

40:38

or whatever. It's that thing where, exactly

40:40

as you guys say there, the technology

40:42

side of things, being so prevalent now

40:44

with resuits, with CGI, bringing this stuff

40:46

back in and redoing stuff, you're just

40:48

shifting that time capsule moment to another

40:50

10, 15, 20 years, whatever it is,

40:52

even a handful of years sometimes. But

40:54

then you will see like, oh, okay,

40:56

there's a whole thing and wow, the

40:58

real like choice of lighting and all

41:00

this, this really captures that era of

41:02

the 80s or the 90s. And then

41:04

this is weird 20, that looks like

41:06

some 2010 CGI type shit, because as

41:08

we have talked about again many times

41:10

on this show before, you really fucking

41:12

notice that era of, oh, that's early

41:14

2000s. Fucking Tomb Raider, we talked about

41:16

the end of last season, like. This

41:18

is one of the most 2,000 films

41:20

I've ever severalised. I think your exact

41:22

quote, Tim was, this is very after

41:24

the matrix. Get us some fucking sunglasses

41:26

when he cuts in slow motion. We're

41:29

reactionary to the world around us, and

41:31

that goes for creatives as well. Not

41:33

just from a political perspective, but what

41:35

is happening in terms of trends and

41:37

stuff. when you're coming back around to

41:39

something and reassessing it, 10, 15, 20,

41:41

30, 40, even more, sometimes years later,

41:43

you're not only looking at it through

41:45

the modern lens, but you're now adjusting

41:47

the target to like, okay, well, now

41:49

I want to make it trendy for

41:51

the 2020s, like, right, but in, as

41:53

you guys are just saying, in 10

41:55

years, That will look like a 20-20s

41:57

film and that's not necessarily a good

41:59

thing. Which is often where remakes come

42:01

in. Exactly. Because then people say, okay,

42:03

well I can't just tweak this thing,

42:05

tweak this, I'll just do it again.

42:07

Fair enough, and I will say this

42:09

much, that's fine because it's different. Yeah.

42:11

Rather than I'm just going to just

42:13

nudge a few things in here, it's

42:15

like, who are you to say that

42:17

you can do that? Yeah, yeah, and

42:20

I think that's a really good point

42:22

because like, yeah, you might be a

42:24

better filmmaker 15 years down the line,

42:26

but your aesthetic might also have completely

42:28

shifted even without even subconsciously, because of,

42:30

like you say, the context in which

42:32

you're producing a thing, if you, you

42:34

know, if you're If you at 30

42:36

has just watched a bunch of, I

42:38

don't know, South Korean cinema, and you're

42:40

not even really actively thinking about that

42:42

when you're making your new Western, but

42:44

those influences are creeping in, and then

42:46

you go back 15 years down the

42:48

line to remake it, and you don't

42:50

have that same context that you were

42:52

producing it in, then the new stuff

42:54

that you shoot, and even the decisions

42:56

you make with existing footage, are going

42:58

to be very different, and so they

43:00

will be jarring. like no matter how

43:02

good you try and edit it there

43:04

will be aesthetic differences and again this

43:06

is all coming from a place of

43:08

saying like yeah the director should get

43:11

this level of power and this this

43:13

privilege like you say of like being

43:15

able to do that and yet no

43:17

one else involved in the film does

43:19

no I think that comes down to

43:21

political clout in terms of like I

43:23

mean no film politics yeah and I've

43:25

got a bit I'm gonna say well

43:27

to and just a second about that

43:29

but I just like an experiment for

43:31

you guys and for the listeners and

43:33

everyone else. I think it's an interesting

43:35

one. If you take any director you

43:37

can think of who's had a long

43:39

storied career of significant highs, i.e. They've

43:41

done a lot of good movies. Ron

43:43

Howard. Safe as pair of hands. Safest

43:45

hands in the West. That's, uh, for

43:47

I'm going to say Spielberg. Okay. Because

43:49

the oover is huge. If I said

43:51

to Spielberg today, hello. I need you

43:53

to make me an 80s movie. Oh,

43:55

you mean certainly 80s? No, no, no,

43:57

no, no. Can you make a Spielberg

43:59

film about any fucking thing? I don't

44:02

care what's about. Yeah, Jay, Jay, Abrams,

44:04

did it, super. Yeah, nice. But I

44:06

need you to make it look and

44:08

feel like, like, you know, a film

44:10

from the 80s that you made in

44:12

your career. What do you mean? Well,

44:14

everyone can tell 80s Spielberg. Everyone can

44:16

tell 90s Spielberg in 2000. So if

44:18

I point out like Jurassic Park, E.

44:20

E.T. Minority. If I point out like

44:22

Jurassic Park, E. E.T. minority park. Those

44:24

are three big blockbuster. The idea is

44:26

that at some point, and this one

44:28

that's a bit more evident with music

44:30

oddly enough, if you say to a

44:32

band, can you sound like you did

44:34

in your first album? They're like, I

44:36

don't want to. The Beatles don't want

44:38

to sound like, you know, shaky hair.

44:40

It's like, no, I want to say

44:42

some fucking shit on the sitar when

44:44

I'm off my fucking face. Yeah. It's

44:46

like, well, that's what you did with

44:48

Spielberg. It's like, like, Okay I've released

44:50

bridge spies a bit like my no

44:53

it's not that's a 2010 spillbook movie

44:55

give me something else I did ready

44:57

play a one I know it's someone

44:59

else's adaptation but so it's like a

45:01

90 no it's not that's just a

45:03

2010 do you hear what I'm saying

45:05

any direct you can think of like

45:07

do you and it's it comes down

45:09

to a nature of that what we're

45:11

talking about the hubris and your own

45:13

sentiment as a creator and your own

45:15

perspective where young James Cameron coming off

45:17

fucking piranha and being scrappy and risk-taking

45:19

with things like Terminator and then later

45:21

aliens and stuff is not the same

45:23

as I'm gonna fuck around and make

45:25

fucking avatar movies. Think how long it

45:27

would take James Cameron to make Terminator

45:29

today. Yeah, like think of all the

45:31

20 years. Yeah, it would be all

45:33

you need to do is look at

45:35

it as fucking 4k cut of the

45:37

abyss. Yeah, like how long are we

45:39

sitting waiting for this James? Not that

45:41

I can shit about the best too

45:44

much. But the point is like he's

45:46

like, oh no, I'm tweaking. It's like,

45:48

what are you tweaking? Yeah, he's too

45:50

busy at the bottom of the scene.

45:52

Yeah, I've got to make sure every

45:54

frame is perfect. I'm doing everything for

45:56

the four for the 4k. Just off

45:58

the abyss. Yeah, shut the fuck up,

46:00

James. And so you end up with

46:02

the whole, like, you don't need to

46:04

change it. You don't need to. Well,

46:06

I do it for the medium. I

46:08

was like, most people aren't going to

46:10

notice or care. And you might fucking

46:12

botch it in the same way that

46:14

every version of the Matrix exists now

46:16

is. Green as shit! And you're like,

46:18

I don't remember this film being so

46:20

green. Well, in the sequels, you made

46:22

it more green in the matrix and

46:24

blue in the real world. Right? So

46:26

we pulled the oil in line. Why?

46:28

There was a post about all the

46:30

different colorations and the different versions. Like,

46:32

so the blue ray release looks like

46:35

this. But theatrical release looked like this.

46:37

And here's DVD. And here's the DVD.

46:39

Here's the 4K. Here's this. They did

46:41

a 70mm cut and there's a 35%.

46:43

They did an anniversary edition. They recolored

46:45

it again. It's like, that one's blue,

46:47

that one's green. That's kind of neutral.

46:49

Like, fucking out. And it comes on

46:51

to why? Well, for the purity of

46:53

it. No, no. You had your vision.

46:55

Yeah. We liked it. Why did it

46:57

lines with my legs of vision vision.

46:59

No one likes your later vision. Well,

47:01

I've changed it so it ties in

47:03

with it. The thing you're tying it

47:05

into is shit. It's like, again, it's

47:07

full-on, fucking Godfather three more actively, Megalopolis,

47:09

where Megalopolis is somehow bafflingly a fucking

47:11

Godfather sequel. He's like, I've gone back

47:13

and I've changed Godfather once time with

47:15

Megalopolis. god. You listen to me, you

47:17

fuck. You step back. Well no, because

47:19

I know a lot more now. You've

47:21

proven that all too clearly. Do you

47:23

understand that? Back to the camera, Francis.

47:26

Do you understand that? Yes. Do you

47:28

understand that? Yes. Do you understand? Yes.

47:30

Ridiculous. Yeah, it's it's fascinating that, you

47:32

know, so often we are like anti-studio.

47:34

Yes, because they make good scapegoats. And

47:36

very often it's things are their fault.

47:38

They do also fund a lot of

47:40

the good stuff and say, let's make

47:42

this. Yes. Yeah. And it's that idea

47:44

of like, oh yeah, the film is

47:46

never finished, it's abandoned. Because you've got

47:48

a deadline. Sometimes you need that. Sometimes

47:50

you, if you, if you, if you

47:52

have the opportunity to sit there and

47:54

far around with a project for 15

47:56

years, like, you just keep, you get

47:58

lost in the weeds, you know, and

48:00

sometimes you need the pressure of someone

48:02

going, look. I respect your process I

48:04

respect your creativity great vision and everything

48:06

but also I control the purse strings

48:08

and this has to come out in

48:10

April and it's fucking March to finish

48:12

it and and you know the abandoned

48:14

sometimes there is grace in the abandoning

48:17

of the thing and saying like this

48:19

is as good as I can get

48:21

it Maybe if I had another 10

48:23

years, I'd do some things different. It's

48:25

like, no, sometimes you need to walk

48:27

away and let the thing live and

48:29

to go back to what we talked

48:31

about at the beginning. Like, there are

48:33

films that filmmakers have not had final

48:35

cut on or they have not been

48:37

pleased with that people love. You know,

48:39

in some ways, it makes no difference

48:41

because if you are a halfway competent

48:43

filmmaker, someone's still going to connect with

48:45

it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, the classic

48:47

map personal experience and you guys are

48:49

able to relate to this. A lot

48:51

of people who've worked on the films.

48:53

worked on, can't watch them. Good friend

48:55

of mine, Ryan. Stuart Ashen's nephew. He's

48:57

in a lot of my projects. Can't

48:59

watch half his stuff. Because he hates

49:01

his performances. He feels he could be

49:03

doing so much better. And I'm like,

49:05

I won't move on until I like

49:08

what's on screen. And I've said that

49:10

to Actus to reassure them, I'm like,

49:12

I promise you, if it's good enough

49:14

for what I'm looking at, then I

49:16

know it'll be good. And as you

49:18

said to people for multiple reasons, one

49:20

being to the, for an actor supposed

49:22

to be was, it's not like, oh

49:24

yeah, don't worry, I'm gonna fucking CGI

49:26

this out later and fix it because

49:28

you were shit. It's a horrible fucking

49:30

thing to say to somebody obviously, which

49:32

is what Director Cup mostly is doing.

49:34

And we can now move on. If

49:36

there's something else in the tank and

49:38

I can see that's there, we'll keep

49:40

at it because I think it's there.

49:42

It's close. That's a good directive act

49:44

of relationship. But some people will go

49:46

back and go, oh, I wish I

49:48

could change that. I look at everything

49:50

I've shot and think, oh, I wish

49:52

I could change that. I look at

49:54

everything I've shot and think, oh, I

49:56

wish I could change that. I look

49:59

at everything I've shot in the arc,

50:01

I've changed, I've changed, I've changed, I've

50:03

changed, I've changed, I've, I've changed, I've,

50:05

I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've,

50:07

I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've,

50:09

I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've,

50:11

I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I And

50:13

she couldn't see past how she fell

50:15

down the stairs wrong in a certain

50:17

place or looked stupid. And if you

50:19

see the making of it where, you

50:21

know, in the corridor scene, Keanu Reese

50:23

puts his hand down and goes, oh,

50:25

that's a terrible shot. My pinkie is

50:27

too far out. Leave it alone. He

50:29

wants it's perfectly symmetrical hand, but he's

50:31

doing something more natural. And of course,

50:33

he's like, yeah, I don't want to

50:35

do that. I want to do it.

50:37

I want to do it. Absolutely fucking

50:39

cannot because it will interfere with what

50:41

you're doing. Yeah, you will try and

50:43

then mimic the process you think you're

50:45

seeing. So if you see that on

50:47

the screen over and over and over

50:50

and God, I can tell you this

50:52

in the edit, you will, you will

50:54

say to people if it's a comedy,

50:56

is this funny? I can't tell anymore.

50:58

Is this cool? And then you have

51:00

like what's called a red team.

51:02

wife. And I say,

51:04

I need you

51:06

to watch this. And

51:08

she laughs and

51:10

like, fuck yes. And

51:12

she forgot to

51:14

be, she was on

51:16

set for like

51:18

all the stuff. But

51:20

you forget about

51:22

it. And then you,

51:24

but then when

51:26

you see it over

51:28

and over and

51:30

it lives with you

51:32

for a while

51:34

and you're involved in

51:36

the process, if

51:38

you're a fan and

51:41

you go, God,

51:43

I really love that

51:45

movie. Everything about

51:47

it is so important

51:49

to me. And

51:51

I love it. It's

51:53

like, did you

51:55

not notice this? And

51:57

it's like, oh

51:59

yeah. No, I didn't

52:01

notice that. Well,

52:03

I did. And I

52:05

want to remake

52:07

it. Well, we don't

52:09

think you need

52:11

to. No, I'm going

52:13

to go back

52:15

and release again. And

52:17

you'll like it.

52:19

I already like it.

52:21

So who are

52:23

you doing this for?

52:25

Yeah. And is

52:27

it going to make

52:30

any money? No,

52:32

it'll make no money.

52:34

It'd be a

52:36

huge colossal loss of

52:38

money. But we're

52:40

going to do it because I

52:42

have the ego of I need to

52:44

get it right this time. And

52:46

someone will vilify me and say it's

52:48

correct. Some of them indicate whatever.

52:50

Ridiculous. Yeah, it's interesting because we thought

52:53

it is. It's either directors or

52:55

studios who get to bring out these

52:57

additional cuts. And for, say, an

52:59

actor, their version of a director's cut

53:01

has to be in the moment.

53:03

It has to be saying, sorry, I

53:05

know we've got it. I want

53:08

another run at that. they don't have

53:10

the privilege and the advantage of

53:12

time and maybe even of seeing the

53:14

actual shot was and stuff like

53:16

that. And, you know, they have to

53:18

in the moment and that's assuming

53:20

that they are important enough that they

53:23

can make that call. know, a

53:25

lead actor can maybe go like, sorry,

53:27

I was in my head there.

53:29

Can I take another go at that?

53:31

Lead actors, if they've got enough

53:33

clout, will sabotage a take so you

53:35

absolutely cannot use it. And you're

53:37

like, what are you doing? It's like,

53:40

I don't want you to use

53:42

this. It's not your call. Actually, look

53:44

at the paycheck. It is my

53:46

call. Yeah. But if you're, you know,

53:48

fourth, fifth down the call sheet

53:50

or whatever, or even lower, and you're

53:52

just like, ah, fuck, man, I

53:55

know, I know, I did everything the

53:57

director wanted, but I feel like

53:59

I fucking ate on that. I did it did

54:01

terrible like you don't you don't have the

54:03

clout on the movie set to even

54:05

call for another version. Let alone come

54:07

back 10 years later and go go like I

54:09

want another run at that at that so

54:11

it's the same with, same know, you know it's sound

54:14

people or or camera people unless

54:16

a technical problem unless you can

54:18

stop it and go it and go

54:20

a buzzing somewhere a sorry or

54:22

know the the lighting is all

54:24

wrong is it's very rare very rare

54:26

you know, maybe a cinematographer might get

54:28

a chance, but a chance just be just be

54:30

like actually I think we I think we

54:32

could be better if we were five inches

54:35

back. that's you've got a good relationship with

54:37

the director. And the it comes back to

54:39

this thing of comes back to is in

54:41

charge? like who is in charge like who

54:43

the clout because it is It's a It's

54:45

a collaborative medium, and and yet not

54:47

everyone is is on a little equal Oh,

54:49

that's true. know true. You know, and

54:52

you know, even stuff stuff like special

54:54

effects artists, you know, you might be

54:56

in a tiny special effects house house

54:59

around the planet the where the

55:01

movie is being shot movie is being

55:03

on like a background a background. and

55:05

thinking like, oh man, I, I mean, it's ready to go, but I feel like

55:07

if I it's ready to go, but I

55:09

feel like if I spent another, knows, you

55:11

know. how crunched special We've been

55:13

crunched to fuck. are, like, if you're like, man, effects

55:15

houses are, week you're this, I could if

55:17

I had another week on this, I

55:20

could make it so much better. by

55:22

a be James by Reverend Wilson Oscars. Oh God.

55:24

If I just was able to give a bit just was

55:26

able to give a bit longer, it's

55:28

like, well, you don't get to. to. Yeah, because

55:30

you you have a boss and that

55:32

boss answers to someone else who answers

55:34

to someone else someone to either a director

55:36

or a studio executive executive We need this

55:39

now. need And again, And is

55:41

that is that pressure and and that it's

55:43

It's only ever abandoned, it's not. it's

55:45

It's not finished. because if because if every single

55:47

single person involved in making a

55:49

film got to do every single

55:51

thing until they were happy with

55:53

it. it. a a film would never come Nothing

55:55

would would ever get made. is is something

55:58

I remember saying on set to one of my... It even get get...

56:00

because the writer would still be going,

56:02

as someone who has done that. Yes.

56:05

Again, that's what I was saying earlier.

56:07

Some people release their first novel in

56:09

their 60s because they've been tinkering with

56:11

it for 30 or 40 fucking years

56:14

on their own. One last thing before

56:16

you go to our second half is

56:18

if I may. We've talked a lot

56:20

about internal separating art from artists. We

56:23

haven't, and we should briefly touch on,

56:25

external. So, you know, who has the

56:27

power, who has the cloud, directors, studios,

56:29

and those keys are still very much

56:32

held by those individuals. However. There is

56:34

also the separation of art from artists

56:36

from the fan side of things, the

56:38

public, and that also has a bit

56:41

of presence. So as Jack was saying

56:43

earlier, with the sort of fan cut

56:45

of Obie One, for example, at some

56:47

point the fans will demand you re-release

56:50

something. And you could say, it's more

56:52

than time, Matthew. It's always more than

56:54

time. Well, that was just trolling Sony

56:56

for being stupid, but yeah. They take

56:59

the Snyder Cup, which we talked about

57:01

a great length. It's like him saying.

57:03

Great, great length. Yes. It's Snyder saying,

57:06

the film is done. I've got it

57:08

all there. They've got it in reals

57:10

and they're just not releasing to you.

57:12

And the public saying, well, I want

57:15

that. Give me that. It turns out.

57:17

Turns out it's not done. It's all

57:19

done, apart from the 70 to 100

57:21

million dollars, I need to reach you

57:24

a bunch of stuff. I need an

57:26

entire film budget worth of film to

57:28

finish this. Okay, I'm just going to

57:30

make up this. The recent thing were

57:33

Deadpool's entire budget. And insane. I don't,

57:35

I can't see how that was anyway

57:37

profitable. I think it wasn't one of

57:39

those exacts of saying we never should

57:42

have fucking done this. Absolutely. Because it

57:44

ended up on fucking max. Yeah. The

57:46

pandemic happens. That's true. Straight on HBO.

57:48

Uh, fuck it made no money I

57:51

guess. And even if it did get

57:53

released a four hour movie in a

57:55

cinema is going to eat up like

57:57

how many these times could have released,

58:00

how many these times could have released,

58:02

how many screens could have released, how

58:04

many screens can be occupied. then you

58:06

end up with people saying, like, okay,

58:09

well, now they're sated, problem solved. The

58:11

fans have been, you know, we've separated

58:13

the art from artists, we haven't, you've,

58:15

in fact, put the art in, sort

58:18

of the artist, back in more, because

58:20

he won't leave it, the fuck, leave

58:22

it, the artist, back in more, because

58:24

he won't leave it the fuck alone.

58:27

And the fans are demanding, you keep

58:29

it, no, we did this, like, humid

58:31

them. And so that separation of our

58:33

artists is, well, like, you know, when

58:36

do you stop tinkering, there is a

58:38

time step back and even the people

58:40

are saying, like, oh, I really want

58:42

to go back. And as well, I

58:45

mentioned the Donna Cup being like, no,

58:47

Superman 2, the Donna version is a

58:49

superior version and a better movie. And

58:51

I would recommend that version of the

58:54

others. a holy hell. I mean, both

58:56

versions of Justice League are two sides

58:58

of the same shitty coin, but at

59:01

the same time, who's asking for it?

59:03

And even if they're asking, what do

59:05

they, what the fact they're talking about?

59:07

Yeah, very briefly, this is how I

59:10

feel about basically every pitch I've ever

59:12

written, every comic script I've ever, every

59:14

short story, anything I've ever given to

59:16

other people, it's like, That'll do. That

59:19

is how I feel about basically every

59:21

creative thing I've ever done. I would

59:23

still be sitting here tweaking my pitch

59:25

of The Dark Night Rises five fucking

59:28

years ago that we talked about the

59:30

beginning of the episode if I had

59:32

my way and I had my way

59:34

and I had my way and I

59:37

had already been as we talked about

59:39

thinking about the beginning of the episode

59:41

if I had my way and I

59:43

had already been as we talked about

59:46

thinking about it, I've been taking around

59:48

on my head for so long. I've

59:50

seen you guys rewriting rewriting the rewriting

59:52

stuff. in the room. Halfway point. Yeah,

59:55

absolutely. We've ever got the second half

59:57

down. You've been two minutes just quickly

59:59

change. Hold on, hold on. Yeah, if

1:00:01

I can just change that and then

1:00:04

I'm very guilty of this, like I

1:00:06

changed this thing and I've literally left

1:00:08

like bits in the pitch and you

1:00:10

guys won't have heard this and stuff

1:00:13

like there. movie and Ninja Tales one

1:00:15

was like, I do a character reveal

1:00:17

much later on. I originally had in

1:00:19

like the opening third of my film

1:00:22

and Tim read it out and I

1:00:24

was like, fuck, that was, I changed

1:00:26

that like literally like one o'clock in

1:00:28

the morning and I completely forgot, oh,

1:00:31

fuck, I said to change that character's

1:00:33

name. Did I recast them as well?

1:00:35

Shit. Hold on. Who the fuck is

1:00:37

Margaret? Oh, I killed that character. Yeah.

1:00:40

It's a whole supply I didn't need.

1:00:42

Yeah. Let me just, let me just,

1:00:44

there wasn't a big plot here, but

1:00:47

no, God. Yeah, yeah. Who's, Marcus? Replace,

1:00:49

delete. Doesn't matter. Don't worry about it.

1:00:51

You didn't see anything. Yeah. I think

1:00:53

I've had maybe like five or six

1:00:56

things I've written in my lifetime where

1:00:58

I've been like, that holds up. Yeah.

1:01:00

Yeah, and it is, you know, the

1:01:02

whole, like fan, you know, we can

1:01:05

fucking call it, the Snyder Cup mindset,

1:01:07

like it is just validating the arrogance

1:01:09

of people and building them up with

1:01:11

that hubris to the point where you

1:01:14

then get a fucking rebel moon and

1:01:16

stuff where he's like, yes, here, Netflix

1:01:18

gave me final cut, but also I

1:01:20

want a different version that isn't because...

1:01:23

I'm doing a director's cut of my...

1:01:25

directors cut yeah which is just with

1:01:27

the blood and tits in because Netflix

1:01:29

wanted a PG-13 film for who and

1:01:32

it's like stop giving this person validation

1:01:34

because you're gonna get it you're gonna

1:01:36

get a fucking Todd Phillips situation And

1:01:38

we never want a Todd Phillips situation.

1:01:41

And I think that one final version

1:01:43

of this, before we pause and sell,

1:01:45

we pause and reflect, you go. We

1:01:47

pause and reflect, you listen to an

1:01:50

ad if you're listening to an ad

1:01:52

version. The one final thing that is

1:01:54

a very modern adaptation, a very modern

1:01:56

version of this phenomenon is, and we

1:01:59

mentioned it earlier. special

1:02:02

effects houses getting crunched to fuck.

1:02:04

And it's never going to happen

1:02:06

on, you know, fucking portrait of

1:02:08

the Lady on Fire wasn't going

1:02:10

to have a needed day one

1:02:12

patch, because, you know, that is

1:02:14

not, because that film's great. But

1:02:16

also, like, it only happens with

1:02:18

fucking quantumania and stuff like that,

1:02:20

where there is so much CGI

1:02:22

involved and so much of that

1:02:24

film can be reworked up until

1:02:26

the last minute. And it's, again,

1:02:28

it speaks to a lack of

1:02:30

confidence in these terms because it

1:02:32

is a studio that keeps fiddling

1:02:34

with stuff and keeps demanding alternate versions.

1:02:37

Disney is notorious for this where

1:02:39

they're like, yeah, not only do

1:02:41

we, like, we don't want animatics

1:02:43

to see what this sequence is

1:02:45

going to look like. We want

1:02:47

a fully rendered special effects sequence

1:02:49

and then we'll give you our

1:02:51

notes and tell you what we

1:02:53

want different and you'll have to go

1:02:55

away and remake it's like. That

1:02:57

is a recipe for every special

1:02:59

effects house getting burnt out on

1:03:01

you. That was cats folks. Yeah,

1:03:03

because yeah, yeah, yeah, Tom Hooper

1:03:05

being like, yeah, I want fully

1:03:07

rendered sequences before I give any

1:03:09

feedback and it's like it of people

1:03:11

who've fuck up their movies. Yeah,

1:03:13

having making terrible decisions and not

1:03:15

understanding how it works. You'd think

1:03:17

that would burn so many bridges,

1:03:19

like, oh, well, you don't have

1:03:21

to go work with the visual

1:03:23

effects house ever again. Yeah. But

1:03:25

the problem is people so desperate

1:03:28

for the work, and it's very much

1:03:30

narrowed into one viable market, i.e.

1:03:32

It's the studio system. Yeah. You

1:03:34

don't get to make that choice.

1:03:36

And most of the time, you're

1:03:38

still going to go under. You

1:03:40

can win it an Oscar for

1:03:42

life. one day and then find

1:03:44

out you're going bankrupt the next day.

1:03:46

Yeah, yeah, a special effects studio

1:03:48

does not have the luxury of

1:03:50

saying like, hey, we hated working

1:03:52

on this film, we're never working

1:03:54

for Disney again, because there's only

1:03:56

so many games in town. Yeah,

1:03:58

and, and, and, corridor, digital crew,

1:04:00

what they're called? Yeah, they, they, they

1:04:03

go like, well, I would do

1:04:05

it like this. Yeah, because they're

1:04:07

not in the actual, yeah, because

1:04:09

they're not in the, yeah. Yeah,

1:04:11

and you know, taking as kind

1:04:13

of grand circle, that again gets

1:04:15

into the power dynamics in Hollywood.

1:04:17

Who has the heft and the

1:04:19

clout to make these decisions? And because

1:04:21

of the weird nature of Hollywood,

1:04:23

you know, it is that thing

1:04:25

of like, if you are not,

1:04:27

if you're a director, not every

1:04:29

director, but if you're a established

1:04:31

a director, then you have the

1:04:33

power to say, hey, I want

1:04:35

to do a director's cut of this,

1:04:37

I wasn't happy with the studio

1:04:40

not giving me final cut. If

1:04:42

you are a special effects house,

1:04:44

you don't get that power and

1:04:46

if you try and exercise that

1:04:48

power and say, hey, we're not

1:04:50

giving you the sequence, it's not

1:04:52

finished, it's not ready, then you

1:04:54

get branded as difficult and... No, and

1:04:56

then you don't get worked with

1:04:58

again. And if you're an actor,

1:05:00

if you're, you're a, you know,

1:05:02

sound recorder on a set and

1:05:04

you go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

1:05:06

hey, I think we can do

1:05:08

better on, you know, like the

1:05:10

levels weren't quite perfect. Then very quickly,

1:05:12

you are going to be like,

1:05:14

very quickly, you are going to

1:05:16

be like, very quickly, you are

1:05:18

going to be like, Why is

1:05:20

he not good at his job?

1:05:22

That's not me saying that. But

1:05:24

like, if anyone else told you,

1:05:26

if anyone else told you, like, yeah,

1:05:29

I needed to do my job

1:05:31

300 times to get it right,

1:05:33

you'd be like, what the fuck's

1:05:35

wrong with you? Imagine if we

1:05:37

recall. every episode

1:05:39

of this podcast five

1:05:41

times, so I'm gonna

1:05:43

like, so I'm

1:05:45

going to cut together

1:05:47

the five five different

1:05:49

takes, the to pick

1:05:51

the best bits pick

1:05:53

the best bits

1:05:55

of of the best

1:05:57

bits of Matt

1:05:59

and the best

1:06:01

bits of Tim. how

1:06:04

most songs are

1:06:06

recorded recorded. Yeah, absolutely. That's

1:06:08

a lot of

1:06:10

films are put

1:06:12

together. put together. take

1:06:14

one thing that

1:06:16

is shot on

1:06:18

on like of filming.

1:06:20

of And then come back,

1:06:22

we're talking about talking about okay,

1:06:24

we'll reshoot that thing. we'll reshoot Let's

1:06:26

ignore that bit. wig. Let's ignore that bit.

1:06:28

But wig aside, we aside. that. that.

1:06:31

podcast thing. We're like, Oh, oh, we

1:06:33

have had to to stuff before. We have

1:06:35

had technical glitches and crashes and have

1:06:37

to do retakes and stuff. We've all

1:06:39

done We've all done our various sides on on both sides

1:06:41

of the camera and issues where we've had to do

1:06:43

retakes and stuff as well complete behind the scenes

1:06:45

here behind if we've mentioned this before. Don't if

1:06:47

we've mentioned this before. Solo. Oh yeah!

1:06:49

yeah. record solo episode. We did did the

1:06:51

whole thing. had to do it all to

1:06:54

do it all again. think I

1:06:56

don't think anyone would have noticed.

1:06:58

noticed. No. But we fucking noticed. The Pirates of the

1:07:00

The Pirates of the Caribbean episode

1:07:02

way back the day is what. My laptop, old

1:07:04

my old laptop, literally like blue screen

1:07:06

screen Yeah yeah the I checked like after we

1:07:08

checked recording I we like, I don't know how

1:07:11

I don't know how that's been been frozen

1:07:13

for. says 26 says of minutes of recording.

1:07:15

We've been going for an hour. an

1:07:17

hour. I think my think my

1:07:19

And dead, in we are in. room

1:07:21

at the living room at the time,

1:07:23

think in his flat in Norwich, how far ago,

1:07:25

how long ago and how long ago and how

1:07:27

far away this feels now. yeah, the

1:07:30

final product, not to compare us

1:07:32

product, not to compare us to

1:07:34

people like that that kind of stuff,

1:07:36

stuff, but. This is a creative thing that

1:07:38

we are recording. are the process of editing

1:07:40

and all this kind of stuff and the technology

1:07:42

behind it changes. stuff and have

1:07:44

literally said behind it I will

1:07:46

go back and said the first

1:07:48

few seasons of re-ed they sound like

1:07:50

few it's the five of

1:07:53

us at the time Because

1:07:55

around of us microphone sat around

1:07:57

a coffee table. a

1:07:59

coffee table. hard-surfaced office and all

1:08:01

that kind of stuff. But then, exactly

1:08:04

as we're saying, you then get people

1:08:06

being like, oh, but yeah, it's changed

1:08:08

the magic, oh, it feels weird, or

1:08:10

you could do just like a really,

1:08:13

to do the equivalent of CGI, I

1:08:15

guess, in podcasting world, like, chuck it

1:08:17

through one of those AI audio processing

1:08:19

things like Adobe Enhance or the Descript

1:08:22

studio sound or whatever. They have their

1:08:24

uses, don't get me wrong, they're brilliant

1:08:26

in removing audio and making people feel

1:08:28

like they're very close to the microphone

1:08:31

and very clean. even when they're halfway

1:08:33

across the room and you can't really

1:08:35

hear them and I interview people all

1:08:37

the time that talk to me like

1:08:40

this on my other podcast. And then

1:08:42

when you put the studio sound, they

1:08:44

sound like they're right up in it.

1:08:47

It's a very nice expensive microphone. I

1:08:49

was like, that's your fucking laptop mic.

1:08:51

I've made sound good. However, when it's

1:08:53

all a bunch of people at once

1:08:56

talking into one microphone, you will get

1:08:58

all kinds of weird background noise. The

1:09:00

AI stuff. This seems like a very

1:09:02

film-specific thing, but you know, the fact

1:09:05

that we're a movie podcast kind of

1:09:07

focused us there, but this happens in

1:09:09

all medium mediums, right? This is a

1:09:11

thing that permeates across every medium, it

1:09:14

seems. Absolutely. I think to just cap

1:09:16

this bit off here, I'd like to

1:09:18

end also on a quote. At one

1:09:21

point in his career, Akira Kurosawa. was

1:09:23

say, whenever he was asked, what do

1:09:25

you think is your best film? Because

1:09:27

that man had multiple decades of really

1:09:30

interesting heavy hitting cinema defining fucking films.

1:09:32

He did have some cinema defining fucking

1:09:34

films. It's true. And every time he

1:09:36

was asked, he would say, you know,

1:09:39

what's your what's your best film? He'd

1:09:41

say, my next film. And that is

1:09:43

always such a fucking perfect answer. Until

1:09:45

the fucking move. One point, he started

1:09:48

saying, eh, might be seven samurai. Because

1:09:50

shit I did I did a good

1:09:52

one You get to a point where

1:09:54

you go, you lose faith in yourself,

1:09:57

you see a couple of bad releases.

1:09:59

I mean, in his case, he did

1:10:01

a couple of films that were so

1:10:04

bad, he literally cut his own on

1:10:06

like 20 times, is like trying to

1:10:08

kill himself because artists. But the point

1:10:10

is the most people who tend to

1:10:13

go back and say, oh, I really

1:10:15

need to go back, I can't separate,

1:10:17

I can't leave that one alone, I

1:10:19

can't let it lie as it is

1:10:22

it's going to be a stain on

1:10:24

my name. Whatever you've got lined up

1:10:26

next isn't good enough. And I know

1:10:28

that's a really bold, awful claim. People

1:10:31

go, hang on, that's not fair, but

1:10:33

think about it. If we take George

1:10:35

Lucas, no offense to pick it on

1:10:38

old Georgie boy. But basically, every time

1:10:40

he's like, I don't like what they're

1:10:42

doing to Star Wars and whatever happened

1:10:44

to the Jenkins grandchildren, it's like, write

1:10:47

another fucking Francis Ford carpler. You know,

1:10:49

so I want to go back and

1:10:51

do The Godfather 3 Coder movie, which

1:10:53

I own on Blu-ray. And it's like,

1:10:56

okay, why are you tinkering with Godfather

1:10:58

3? Make another movie. And he does,

1:11:00

oh, oh, now I see why I'm

1:11:02

tinking. Right. I've done another cut of

1:11:05

Apocalypse now. Why is that? Oh, because

1:11:07

you can't make movies anymore, apparently. you

1:11:09

would end up being someone who for

1:11:11

better or worse does a bit of

1:11:14

a Clint Eastwood and he says, I'm

1:11:16

making another movie. He goes off and

1:11:18

makes juror number two and he's like,

1:11:21

yeah, apparently it's okay, great, cool. But

1:11:23

then he's not going to go, I'm

1:11:25

doing a recut of the outlaw Josie

1:11:27

Wales. It's like, why are you doing

1:11:30

that? Because I can't do anything new.

1:11:32

Yeah, because I fucked it. Ridley Scott,

1:11:34

as annoying as he is, going and

1:11:36

saying, I think there's time I'm doing

1:11:39

another alien movies. You've done enough fucking

1:11:41

alien movies. You did one and it

1:11:43

was great and then you've done some

1:11:45

other stuff. We're not going into it.

1:11:48

Him doing Napoleon, him doing Gladiator 2,

1:11:50

him doing fucking last duel and House

1:11:52

of Gucci. At least they're different. At

1:11:54

least they're new. it too, but with

1:11:57

the exception there. Better or worse, it's

1:11:59

something else. So, you know, I think

1:12:01

there's a retrospective look back when you

1:12:04

start to realize all fear that as

1:12:06

we discussed before that idea of like,

1:12:08

oh, well, I can do it better

1:12:10

then. I think you acknowledge in fact

1:12:13

that you can't. Yeah, that's that's the

1:12:15

irony is that yeah, going back and

1:12:17

saying like, oh, I'm much a, I'm

1:12:19

a much better filmmaker now. It's like,

1:12:22

then make some new fucking films. Yeah,

1:12:24

because young you would be like, the

1:12:26

fuck you do. Much of a time

1:12:28

traveling version of you turned up and

1:12:31

said, hey, I know you don't know

1:12:33

this yet, but the thing you just

1:12:35

finished, you're really proud of? I fucking

1:12:38

hate it. And therefore you hate it.

1:12:40

But I just, I think I like

1:12:42

it. I mean, yeah, with some time

1:12:44

constraints. I don't care. Is it successful?

1:12:47

Oh, yeah, it's some people's favorite movies

1:12:49

of all time. They love it. But

1:12:51

I don't care. It's such a weird,

1:12:53

weird place to be. Let's talk about

1:12:56

the wrongings. I'm

1:12:59

going to echo something Tim said in

1:13:01

the first half, because it is a

1:13:03

very important point to reiterate. And every

1:13:05

time something like this comes up, I

1:13:07

always undercut with this. So there is

1:13:09

a parasocial relationship with artists in general.

1:13:11

And that is a huge spectrum that

1:13:13

even includes all-d enough us. Because you

1:13:15

spend so much time with these individuals

1:13:18

and the faces they present and the

1:13:20

characters and persona they present to you

1:13:22

that you believe you have some sort

1:13:24

of connection to them and with them.

1:13:26

With us you do, don't worry. It's

1:13:28

all real. We love you all. Yeah.

1:13:30

Yeah. You don't with me. This is

1:13:32

all a mask. I explained a lot.

1:13:34

It does kind of feel... Do we

1:13:36

even know you, Tim? Not the real

1:13:38

me. So speaking of real time, yes,

1:13:40

the power of social relations, the idea

1:13:42

that everything that's put out there for

1:13:45

people to absorb, they go, oh, I

1:13:47

know this guy so fucking well. I've

1:13:49

seen not only all of the roles

1:13:51

he's done on film, I've read all

1:13:53

those interviews, I've read like, I've seen

1:13:55

him speak people off camera, so different

1:13:57

to when he's, you know, playing X,

1:13:59

Y, Z character. So yeah, I really

1:14:01

wouldn't really understand him. So when he

1:14:03

came out and saying he was in

1:14:05

support of X, Y, Z, or he

1:14:07

had been accused of whatever, I was

1:14:09

so surprised. And my reaction is always,

1:14:11

are you fucking kidding me? you have

1:14:14

no idea who these people are. And

1:14:16

I hate to say it because it

1:14:18

feels so condescending, but I don't care.

1:14:20

Because I'm like, yeah, you don't know.

1:14:22

What the fuck are you talking about?

1:14:24

It's like, oh, even if you want

1:14:26

to put it into a context of

1:14:28

something you can relate to very specifically

1:14:30

of, oh, I work in a company

1:14:32

and there's 700 people in the building

1:14:34

or whatever it happens to be. Do

1:14:36

you hear that on the fifth floor,

1:14:38

there's a guy who got fired for

1:14:40

the company? What the fuck are you

1:14:43

talking about? Similarly, weirdly enough, it turns

1:14:45

to like, oh no, I always knew.

1:14:47

No, you didn't. People present the thing

1:14:49

they present to you all the time.

1:14:51

Sometimes they present the people you think,

1:14:53

it's only how much they lie or

1:14:55

tell you, and people lean into that

1:14:57

a lot, saying, oh, that's what I

1:14:59

chose to show you. And you get

1:15:01

characters, like, and I got anything of

1:15:03

TV at this point, weirdly enough, because

1:15:05

that's what litigiousness has come from. Lorigiousness

1:15:07

has come from. Lorraine Kelly and Jeremy

1:15:10

Kelly and Jeremy Kelly and Jeremy Clark

1:15:12

and Jeremy Clark and Jeremy Clark and

1:15:14

Jeremy Clarkson, bear with me. So that's

1:15:16

a British daytime host and Prick. But

1:15:18

basically the idea is that Lorraine Kelly

1:15:20

was a daytime like, you know, TV

1:15:22

persona and she went, oh, well, no,

1:15:24

I, Lorraine Kelly, the character said that.

1:15:26

That's you. The Hulk Hogan, Terry Belayer.

1:15:28

I didn't have sex. Bob with a

1:15:30

Love Spongy's wife. And people will then

1:15:32

rush to defend... Things that ended gawker

1:15:34

and all that. Exactly, yeah. And people

1:15:36

rush to defend Jeremy Clark's and say,

1:15:39

well, yes, okay, he got his dinner

1:15:41

a little punch to produce in their

1:15:43

face. I think, then he's a prick.

1:15:45

And that's why I got fired. But

1:15:47

you know what that's just he says

1:15:49

these things on the show but that's

1:15:51

him as the persona is like no

1:15:53

he said the things on the show

1:15:55

that's him telling you who he is

1:15:57

that's how it works but even then

1:15:59

me saying that's like I don't know

1:16:01

the guy yeah we just assume because

1:16:03

he's a prick and it also that

1:16:05

you know even even if you're not

1:16:08

a celebrity the way you are with

1:16:10

certain people is not the way you

1:16:12

are with other people yeah everybody puts

1:16:14

on different you know facades and stuff

1:16:16

like that masking you know there's the

1:16:18

the phrase or the term code switching

1:16:20

which is primarily used for kind of

1:16:22

like people especially like African-Americans the way

1:16:24

they speak among other African Americans and

1:16:26

the way they might speak, for example,

1:16:28

in a job interview or something with,

1:16:30

especially with a white person. But it

1:16:32

can expand to, like, everything. You know,

1:16:34

they talk about it in the departed,

1:16:37

you know, character, like how he speaks,

1:16:39

you know, amongst his, you know, sort

1:16:41

of upper class friends versus how he

1:16:43

speaks with, you know, working class friends

1:16:45

and stuff like that and how he's,

1:16:47

you know, that's how they knew he'd

1:16:49

be a good undercover cop is because

1:16:51

he had that. ability to switch back

1:16:53

and forth. I mean my accent changes

1:16:55

depending on which part of my family

1:16:57

I'm talking to. Yeah and it's not

1:16:59

it's not a conscious thing and it

1:17:01

is not a controllable at all. No

1:17:04

exactly and it's not a malicious thing

1:17:06

usually it's just that you know different

1:17:08

the different environments bring out different things

1:17:10

in different people. So of course you

1:17:12

can't you know you could have someone

1:17:14

who is your best friend or your

1:17:16

brother or your sister or your parent

1:17:18

or whatever and you think like I

1:17:20

really know this person and then they

1:17:22

have to go on TV and give

1:17:24

an interview and you watch them and

1:17:26

you're like wow you didn't sound anything

1:17:28

like yourself it's like yeah because they're

1:17:30

in front of a camera and they

1:17:33

are under a different kind of pressure

1:17:35

so here a family member talked to

1:17:37

a bank manager Here

1:17:39

yourself talk to a bank manager and

1:17:41

suddenly things change. Your asshole tightens up

1:17:43

and you're like, why are you talking

1:17:45

like that? It's like, I'm trying to,

1:17:47

you know, yeah, yeah, but you don't

1:17:50

sound like you. You sound like a

1:17:52

shill. Yeah. And then there are people

1:17:54

out there who are like, well, I

1:17:56

never change my personality whatsoever. And it's

1:17:58

like, yeah. be just

1:18:00

as bad. as bad. But all

1:18:02

of this of this is to say,

1:18:04

basically, that, you know, know, that you can

1:18:06

can never truly know another human being.

1:18:09

I mean, yeah, being. I mean, that paranoia

1:18:11

in people's brains, it's true. in people's

1:18:14

we make assumptions

1:18:16

about. assumptions about

1:18:18

art that we and

1:18:21

the people who make it. it.

1:18:23

And it is It is human

1:18:25

nature to do that, kind of something

1:18:27

it's kind of something you have

1:18:29

to try in this especially in

1:18:31

this modern world, where we get...

1:18:34

degrees degrees of

1:18:36

access. both good and to people,

1:18:38

both good and bad, in

1:18:40

that... an age where a just lived

1:18:42

through an age were being more lot of

1:18:44

people were being more held to

1:18:46

account they you know, things are they

1:18:48

have done that are wrong and

1:18:50

that they should be held to

1:18:52

account to. consequences. Yeah, but also, you know, we are living

1:18:54

in know, we are living in a culture know, every You

1:18:56

know, every film star has to have,

1:18:58

well, but not so but of them many of

1:19:01

them come up with. got an

1:19:03

they've got an Instagram account and they've got

1:19:05

a, you know, know, a or whatever and

1:19:07

all this thing. And we feel like, mean,

1:19:09

you So many interviews going out on YouTube

1:19:11

and all this kind of stuff. And we

1:19:13

feel like we have this extra level

1:19:16

of access and that you like, oh, yeah,

1:19:18

well, access and that you like oh yeah, I know this

1:19:20

person yeah, I like. person. It's like

1:19:22

you don't but it's it's only only

1:19:24

natural that you would feel that way

1:19:26

way therefore and especially if you enjoy

1:19:28

the art that they are with

1:19:31

with are the star the star of

1:19:33

your favorite movies or the director of

1:19:35

your favorite movies. movies. it makes sense

1:19:37

that you would start to form some

1:19:39

kind of emotional attachment to these people. to

1:19:42

these an advocate for them you you become an

1:19:44

advocate for them and you become them and you

1:19:46

think and you and love every

1:19:48

movie every Christopher Nolan has

1:19:50

made. has made I've watched interviews

1:19:52

with him, with him yeah I I think

1:19:54

he's a great guy. love every time I see

1:19:56

I see like he's got new project

1:19:58

out, I'm really excited. excited like you know

1:20:00

he always comes in under budget and did

1:20:03

you know when he's on a set? I

1:20:05

saw John David Washington talk about him and

1:20:07

he said that I trust him as well

1:20:09

because he seems like a nice guy, definitely

1:20:12

not just a Nepo baby dude who's who

1:20:14

fucking knows, that it's like being on a

1:20:16

fucking student film. It's like there's no major

1:20:19

tents. It's all just literally just like they're

1:20:21

all there together and like that's the best

1:20:23

atmosphere. What are you talking about? I mean,

1:20:25

it probably is, but what are you talking

1:20:28

about? Yeah. I mean, we do this quite

1:20:30

a lot on the show as well. Oh,

1:20:32

absolutely. And I'm sure we will get into

1:20:34

discussions of this, of like, our own situations

1:20:37

where we have had to deal with this.

1:20:39

Oh, yeah. But the problem is, is that,

1:20:41

yeah, it is only natural to make emotional

1:20:44

connections with art. It's only natural to then

1:20:46

have that because we are social creatures extend

1:20:48

to the people who make that art. And

1:20:50

then when you find out that the people

1:20:53

are not the people that you expect, it

1:20:55

is, you have to reckon with it. And

1:20:57

it is a difficult thing to do. David

1:21:00

Bowie always said that, never meet your heroes.

1:21:02

Yeah. And then we'll enough. So you said

1:21:04

we can be heroes for just one day.

1:21:06

He said that too, contradictory, but he was

1:21:09

singing about a guy who was drunk, beating

1:21:11

up his wife. That's what the song's about,

1:21:13

I think. Which is why when they asked

1:21:16

him to sing over 9-11 cards like he

1:21:18

went, I mean, I can. But then Trent

1:21:20

Reznor said, no, you can meet your hero

1:21:22

sometimes. David Bowie's cool. But it is interesting

1:21:25

because, you know, talk about separating art from

1:21:27

artists. It's like, how do we separate the

1:21:29

artist from their arts? I can stop fucking

1:21:31

with it. And it's like, okay, now I

1:21:34

have that art. Can I separate the artist

1:21:36

and what they've done? Because Tim's absolutely nailed

1:21:38

it there. Every form of art is an

1:21:41

emotional connection, whether it is a narrative thing

1:21:43

that resonates within you or a story that

1:21:45

you thought, oh, I have never thought that

1:21:47

before. That's changed my perspective on things. Whatever

1:21:50

happens to be, even saying as simple as

1:21:52

fucking Shrek, it stopped me thinking about what

1:21:54

was going on outside, and I could just

1:21:57

quiet it down and laugh on some body,

1:21:59

etc. blah blah blah on and on but

1:22:01

then if you take that and then go

1:22:03

okay I've got this very important personal thing

1:22:06

for me I need to meet that person

1:22:08

and tell them that and there'll be some

1:22:10

artists who go out their way to be

1:22:13

nice or speak to fans whatever happens to

1:22:15

be lovely human beings sure fine but everyone's

1:22:17

fucking human everyone's fucking human everyone has an

1:22:19

off day everyone catches you and say no

1:22:22

I can't right now kid and then they

1:22:24

go oh it just broke my fucking heart

1:22:26

it's like yeah yeah yeah That's one aspect

1:22:28

of it. But back to what I was

1:22:31

saying only about the control aspect, there's a

1:22:33

difference between there's almost like three or four

1:22:35

layers to this. One is the person I

1:22:38

thought I was going to be meeting is

1:22:40

actually quite shy. I doesn't want to talk

1:22:42

to me. I'm a bit disappointed by that.

1:22:44

I was expecting a different experience because it's

1:22:47

important to me and it goes a little

1:22:49

bit and bison of the day you met

1:22:51

me is the most important day your life.

1:22:54

For me, it's Tuesday. you are one of

1:22:56

hundreds of thousands of people who might have

1:22:58

been, especially if it's a, you know, a

1:23:00

good fucking film. If it's not, you know,

1:23:03

oh man, I fucking love Son of the

1:23:05

Mars so much, it had so much of

1:23:07

an impact. I've got to go tell Jamie

1:23:10

Kennedy about that. You know, he's not going

1:23:12

to have so many people. But if it's

1:23:14

fucking, I don't know who, but like, if

1:23:16

it's Tom Hanks, you know. Everyone tells Harrison

1:23:19

Ford, he changed their life. He goes, I

1:23:21

don't care. And

1:23:23

you're like, oh, oh, thanks man. That's,

1:23:25

that's one level. That's almost like, they

1:23:28

seem like, that's the, don't meet your

1:23:30

heroes, you'll be disappointed. Yeah. That's one

1:23:32

thing. Like, oh, I can't believe this

1:23:34

person's my favorite ball player. And they

1:23:36

go, not now kid. And you go,

1:23:38

oh, that's disappointing. Yeah. Next level down

1:23:40

is this person is fantastic. I really

1:23:42

love what they've done with films. Bring

1:23:44

up Sylvester Stallone. Oh yeah, and I

1:23:46

think what he did with Rocky is

1:23:48

just has been one of those franchises

1:23:50

that just keeps fucking hitting me and

1:23:53

really some of the things he said

1:23:55

is just wait, sorry what he congratulated

1:23:57

Trump on a second term. Yeah, I

1:23:59

can't, I can't. know what, Dennis Quaid,

1:24:01

he's been a really staple to my

1:24:03

child. I remember like, fucking in a

1:24:05

space, and he's, sorry, he made a

1:24:07

film about Reagan, and he's still, and

1:24:09

that's a misalignment of like the person

1:24:11

you think you know, Kurt Russell, been

1:24:13

advised by a son, and he says,

1:24:15

I don't talk about my own personal

1:24:18

mindset, it's like, you're a guy who

1:24:20

named your fucking son, why I think

1:24:22

we know exactly what's going on. And

1:24:24

that's a misalignmentignment between your own political

1:24:26

mindset, your own political mindset, your own

1:24:28

political mindset, your own personal mindset, your

1:24:30

own personal mindset, I'm like, fucking Clint

1:24:32

Eastwood's another example of like, oh, everyone

1:24:34

of your films will be such important

1:24:36

thing to me. What are you doing

1:24:38

over there? I'm thinking sure I'm voting

1:24:40

for this, but I'm like, oh, you

1:24:43

said, I'm going to yell at this

1:24:45

chair for some. Yeah, yeah, him, yeah,

1:24:47

like a chair that had Barack Obama,

1:24:49

but didn't, it was just a chair.

1:24:51

And you're like, what's happening here? And

1:24:53

that's the, that's another level of, do

1:24:55

I then go, do I then go,

1:24:57

actually, actually, because of, because of, because

1:24:59

of, because of, because of, because of,

1:25:01

So Brett Gelman, for example, who's been

1:25:03

in things like strangers things and flea

1:25:05

bag and other bits and pieces, he

1:25:08

got aggressively pro-Israel and it then becomes

1:25:10

a question of whenever he turns up

1:25:12

and stuff, I'm like, oh, he's quite

1:25:14

funny in flea bag and strange things,

1:25:16

then it's like, yeah, I don't want

1:25:18

you in my stuff anymore because you're

1:25:20

kind of a hateful piece of shit.

1:25:22

And it just keeps going and going,

1:25:24

is that just a separation of, you

1:25:26

know, a disagreement politically or theologically, wherever

1:25:28

it happens to be? Yeah, it's a

1:25:30

values disagree. 100% and and not that

1:25:33

we need to. but not so you

1:25:35

think it's all just wokey woke I

1:25:37

can't believe this person's a Republican. There

1:25:39

were a couple of actors who my

1:25:41

friend who is tangentially in the sort

1:25:43

of the film and industry happened to

1:25:45

me at a party I think he

1:25:47

got like invited to the BAFters that

1:25:49

year or so something that was sort

1:25:51

of surprisingly cool but not also it

1:25:53

wasn't like the Oscars or something like

1:25:55

the BAFters but not A bathter event

1:25:58

but not the bathtors kind of thing.

1:26:00

mentioned there were a there were a couple

1:26:02

of actors there and I was like, Oh, that's cool.

1:26:04

And he was like, yeah, they were off their

1:26:06

faces on And he was And I was like, were off that's

1:26:08

disappointing. coke. And I that I'm, you know, I, I'm not

1:26:10

a puritan about drug stuff, but I'm just like. I'm

1:26:12

a, you that doesn't match up with

1:26:15

the image of you that

1:26:17

I have in my head. friend

1:26:19

of ours like, oh, that an encounter

1:26:21

with an MCU actor have in my

1:26:23

head. A friend of guy, an lovely. with

1:26:25

an when I met him like and a lovely guy,

1:26:27

minutes later. Lovely guy guy, I was, because

1:26:29

I no idea who I was, his was couldn't remember

1:26:31

me from 10 off his face, lovely guy getting through a couldn't

1:26:33

remember me he's like, minutes ago. just that lack of alignment. But

1:26:35

then you get other layer, which is, guy getting They a horrible things that as

1:26:37

best as he could in you're like, ways. They have done it to

1:26:39

be belittle people, yeah. abuse people, etc, etc, it's that, etc,

1:26:42

etc, etc, lack of alignment. But then

1:26:44

you etc, etc, which is etc, etc, monsters. They

1:26:46

have done horrible things. They've etc, power

1:26:48

in terrible ways. They have done

1:26:50

it to etc, etc, etc, people, etc, people,

1:26:52

abuse people, et cetera, et

1:26:54

cetera, et cetera. etc, etc, etc, etc Each one

1:26:56

of those layers will be a

1:26:58

cutoff point for different people based on

1:27:00

their own personal values, which something. We're not

1:27:03

not going to say say you need

1:27:05

to boycott X, Y, Z. It becomes a personal

1:27:07

choice, and how you boycott something

1:27:09

is interesting, because it's like... because

1:27:11

like I can't. bare to see the usual suspects

1:27:14

ever again. I'm again. I'm going to burn my

1:27:16

copy of the usual suspects because of because of

1:27:18

Kevin Spacey. who the fuck knows everyone else

1:27:20

in that show? knows everyone else in You never know. who,

1:27:22

the film, sorry, you never know. Because you're getting out

1:27:24

do not know. Yeah. for earlier,

1:27:26

you do you know. Or do you go? I I really

1:27:28

like this movie. I'm going to keep it. Or do

1:27:31

you say, I really you say, to really want

1:27:33

to own this film. I'll buy it so that

1:27:35

that people can't get get the right, you know,

1:27:37

the royalties. The royalties off the back of that sort

1:27:39

of thing, the back of that, that sort

1:27:41

of thing, because I'm not supporting that lifestyle

1:27:43

specifically. Or do you say, you say, to buy going

1:27:45

to buy it anyway, because those are two

1:27:47

people a film a film that was made

1:27:49

by hundreds and hundreds of people. Precisely. You

1:27:51

know, and I think that this think that this

1:27:54

line. a hard a very hard line to

1:27:56

judge line to judge because, and it

1:27:58

becomes even harder harder when you... about

1:28:00

nowadays when so much of the stuff that you're consuming

1:28:02

is streaming. And you're going, well, the money that I'm

1:28:04

adding to the pot is minuscule in terms of which

1:28:06

is another problem that we should talk about on another

1:28:08

thing. But like, but also this thing, there isn't, I

1:28:10

can't just go and buy it secondhand or I can't

1:28:13

rent a copy from the library because it only exists

1:28:15

on, you know, Netflix or whatever. So there's no other

1:28:17

way for me to consume this without. you know, in

1:28:19

some way contributing to this person. You support the platform

1:28:21

because you use the platform, therefore you support the things

1:28:23

behind it. It's like, well, I don't. But it kind

1:28:25

of doesn't matter now because the money's still going in

1:28:27

anyway. Yeah. And I think, you know, that there is

1:28:29

a real discussion to be had about like, you know,

1:28:31

sort of the so-called like voting with your wallet thing.

1:28:33

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, you can decide that, okay, well, this

1:28:35

person, I found out this thing about them, I'm not

1:28:38

gonna buy anything from them in the future. And, you

1:28:40

know, that is a perfectly valid stance to take. There

1:28:42

are. artists and filmmakers and stuff like that, where I

1:28:44

am exactly the same, where I'm like, I'm not going

1:28:46

to give that person any more of my money, I'm,

1:28:48

you know, I'm not going to contribute to their future

1:28:50

success. And that's, like I say, you can make that

1:28:52

decision. whether that impacts them in the long run when

1:28:54

you're just one person, who's to say, you know, you

1:28:56

can be more vocal about it and hopefully make other

1:28:58

people think twice about it. But at the end of

1:29:00

the day, like, you can't make that decision for other

1:29:03

people. You can advocate for it and you can spread

1:29:05

it so everyone goes in and making an informed decision.

1:29:07

But. everybody has a choice to reckon with how they

1:29:09

consume media and what they want to do. And like

1:29:11

I say, especially with movies, film involves thousands of people,

1:29:13

you know, and so you are essentially... know,

1:29:15

you're kind of saying like,

1:29:17

okay, this one bad apple

1:29:19

has spoiled the bunch, you

1:29:21

know, and yeah, sometimes that

1:29:23

means that, you know, oh,

1:29:26

they're the main character in

1:29:28

this film, I can't stare

1:29:30

at that face knowing, you

1:29:32

know, what kind of person

1:29:34

they are. Worst part as

1:29:36

well when it comes to

1:29:38

the quantity of screen time,

1:29:40

because when you start to

1:29:42

break it down to fractions,

1:29:44

it becomes really tricky. say,

1:29:46

oh, Kevin Spacey cannot do

1:29:48

it. Fair enough. Fuller's better.

1:29:51

You're gonna watch seven? Well,

1:29:53

he's only in the last

1:29:55

like five minutes. Yeah, everyone

1:29:57

else is really good at

1:29:59

that. That was before I

1:30:01

knew he was wrong. But

1:30:03

equally, it can be how

1:30:05

it works. Everybody draws their

1:30:07

line at a specific place

1:30:09

because you might go like

1:30:11

seven. Yeah, he's only in

1:30:14

the last five minutes, but

1:30:16

like, he's such an impact

1:30:18

on that film. Whereas like

1:30:20

baby driver, he's in it

1:30:22

for more, but like he's

1:30:24

like an ensemble thing and