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Happens wherever you listen to podcasts and

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stay ahead of the curve. Shift

0:25

Happens Podcast Welcome to

0:27

the Shift Happens podcast where we

0:29

explored the latest trends and technologies transforming

0:31

the future of work. In

0:33

today's special episode, we're

0:36

joined by Jorn Wittendorf, founder

0:38

of Identic and Mario Carvajal,

0:40

Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer

0:42

at AppPoint. We'll discuss AppPoint's

0:44

recent acquisition of Identic and

0:46

how it's going, the progressing

0:48

landscape of MSPs, practical

0:50

strategies for increasing efficiency, and the

0:52

growing role of AI in

0:54

IT services. Let's get

0:56

started. Hey

1:06

everybody, welcome back to a very special

1:08

episode of Ship Happens Podcast. Today

1:11

I'm very excited to speak with

1:13

two of my amazing colleagues, including

1:15

one who just joined App Point.

1:17

We'll speak with Mario Carvajal, my

1:19

co -host, but today he'll play as

1:21

the guest. our strategy and chief

1:23

marketing officer at AppPoint, as well

1:25

as your founder and CEO of

1:27

Identiq. As you may have seen,

1:30

we've had the great fortune of meeting

1:32

the Identiq team and completed our acquisition

1:34

of the company in January, really

1:36

stoked, not only with their technology, but

1:38

really with the team working with

1:41

us. So today, we'll discuss why we

1:43

joined forces, how the integration

1:45

is going, and the trends

1:47

shaping the future of managed services

1:49

provider space. Before we get

1:51

started, Jorn, welcome to AppPoint and welcome

1:53

to Shift Happens. Yes, thank you. Thanks.

1:55

Thanks, Dax. Thanks. Very happy to be

1:57

here. Awesome. Before we jump

2:00

in our conversation, we ask

2:02

our guests every single

2:04

time this first question. We

2:06

know that a lot of changes are happening. Shifts

2:09

are happening everywhere. And

2:11

most definitely, there's always a

2:13

song or a soundtrack of the

2:15

Shift in your mind. So

2:17

which song, in your opinion, best

2:20

describes the change in transformation that

2:22

we're going through today, and

2:24

why? Oh, very good question. The

2:27

first song that came in mind was Walk of

2:29

Life of Tire Sweets. And

2:37

I'm not that old yet,

2:39

but I like the oldies. I like

2:41

the oldies. And Walk of Life

2:43

is like... I interpreted it

2:45

as... everything that you do is

2:48

the walk of your life. And

2:50

things happen, you

2:52

need to embrace

2:54

it and just go, well,

2:56

let's go with the flow, do what

2:58

you think you're good at, and

3:01

then it will

3:03

happen. It will happen. Yep. Yeah,

3:05

I remember in that song, certainly

3:08

he's talking about, you

3:10

know, the oldies, the goldies, but

3:13

then things change, right? there's

3:15

a part there where he says he turned

3:17

all the night time to the day. So

3:20

in my mind, it's like, come

3:22

what may, right? Bring it on. Typically,

3:26

in most days, we go to sleep at

3:28

night, but in some days, we got

3:30

to stay up, right? We just have to

3:32

adapt to the change. So sounds like

3:34

that's where you're going with. Yeah, you need

3:36

to adapt, you need to improve. That's

3:38

the thing that's always kept

3:40

me, well, stay at night, but

3:42

also... Yeah, lag

3:44

now with acquisition, everything that

3:46

happened. It's very good.

3:49

Well, speaking about that, being

3:51

a founder, certainly

3:54

there's sleepless nights

3:56

that you've gone through. And

3:58

maybe you can quickly

4:00

share to our listeners your

4:02

journey and more importantly, what

4:04

led to identity and also

4:07

now being a part of

4:09

AppPoint. When I was just when I was

4:11

a young kid, my father was also an IT. So

4:13

we had a computer at home. And

4:16

I'm from

4:18

the year of

4:21

Windows 1 .0. So

4:23

I don't know if you know what year it was. Yeah,

4:29

1985. So

4:31

I'm 39 years old right

4:34

now. But I think I was

4:36

four years old that I started with

4:38

a computer in my hand. building

4:41

stuff in at the time. I

4:43

think it was worth perfect, something

4:45

like that. Just

4:48

designing and

4:50

being busy with IT.

4:53

And I was even a beta tester for

4:55

Microsoft when I was only 12 years

4:57

old. So yeah, pretty

4:59

early. And

5:01

I also started my first company when I

5:03

was 12, repairing computers,

5:06

selling computers, but also

5:08

doing branding for companies

5:10

because, yeah, they

5:13

wanted to buy computers, but

5:15

they had a logo. They did

5:17

not have a branding. So I

5:19

also created that for them. And

5:21

after that, I just started creating websites,

5:23

built my own CMS and PHP, because

5:27

I wanted to do things differently. And

5:30

that's also, I think, a good thing of what

5:33

I do is I want to do things

5:35

differently and not go with the flow,

5:37

but... to improve stuff

5:39

be as efficient as you can

5:41

Can be and that has

5:43

always helped me to

5:45

to improve but also

5:47

when I started as an

5:49

IT engineer in the

5:52

Microsoft space, of course

5:54

That also helped me because I

5:56

always want to know why things are

5:58

not working how I can solve it and

6:00

That's that's in the

6:02

more in a more like the The

6:05

reason that I wanted to be an IT is that

6:07

I want to make things easier. Why

6:11

should you have difficult processes if it's also

6:13

possible to do it in a more efficient

6:15

way? So

6:17

that was my IT as an engineer,

6:19

but then I started working on

6:21

a self -service portal for us as

6:23

a company, as an MSP, because before

6:25

Identic, I was also part of

6:27

an MSP, was one of the co -owners of

6:29

that one. We also

6:31

did a lot of things more efficiently. with

6:34

a self -service portal. And I

6:36

wanted to make that portal available for the world. Because,

6:40

yeah, it's more efficient. So why

6:42

should another MSP not take letters

6:45

off of that self -service portal? That

6:47

idea. And

6:49

after that, I started Identic,

6:51

of course, with a full focus

6:53

on being as efficient as you can be

6:55

as an MSP. So,

6:57

yeah, that's me in short. That's

7:00

true. So Mario, I want

7:02

to get to you. So

7:04

remember that first time you

7:06

met Yorn, you met Identic.

7:09

What kind of caught your interest

7:11

being the Chief Strategy Officer? And

7:13

where did you see the alignment, especially

7:15

in that early days of meeting Yorn and

7:17

the team? And you thought, wow,

7:19

this would be a good match with what we're

7:21

doing here at App Point. I think it

7:23

was some of what Yorn just mentioned. In

7:26

our discussion, I started to

7:28

hear an individual

7:30

with a vision and a

7:32

team that or they

7:35

really cared about improving

7:37

through the lens of

7:39

efficiency, but ultimately doing it

7:41

in a modern way. I think, you

7:44

know, the context that

7:46

Jorn gave and even,

7:48

you know, his early entry into

7:50

the tech at age four, it

7:53

just showcased that. But

7:55

wait a second, there's something really interesting here

7:57

that we also have at half point, which

8:00

is a DNA where many of

8:02

our founding team and leaders

8:04

across the organization have had

8:06

the mixture of entrepreneurial driven

8:08

by the desire to improve

8:10

things, like improve a service,

8:13

improve an end user experience.

8:16

And whenever you kind of sense

8:18

that in a discussion, immediately,

8:20

there's something here that we

8:22

have to look closer at. Of

8:25

course, you know, we started discussing

8:27

the technology and the work that the

8:29

Identity team was doing and market

8:31

and so yeah, it was it was

8:33

a very yeah, it was quite

8:35

natural I think We we shared also

8:37

what maybe ducks you don't know

8:39

and I think the three of us

8:41

are in common is you know

8:43

this enthusiasm for cars So, you know,

8:46

we talked about that other dimension

8:48

of Yeah, we sure,

8:50

we totally should. But

8:52

again, it's right, details

8:54

matter, experiences matter, and

8:56

ultimately that was really

8:58

intriguing. The

9:00

technology was also really critical to

9:03

the conversation, as you can imagine, and

9:05

the fact that as we talk,

9:07

we'll talk more here in the next

9:09

few minutes, the synergies

9:11

and the things that we

9:13

were able to not only

9:15

do together, but also realize. for

9:18

our community of partners.

9:21

We felt super excited about that. And so,

9:23

you know, it just, it just kind of

9:25

progressed from there as I reflect back at,

9:27

you know, in those conversations. And then of

9:29

course, when we were, you know, together in

9:31

the Hague and we were just, you know,

9:33

chatting, yeah, it just felt like, wait

9:35

a second, we kind of, we've been growing up

9:38

in the same sort of dimension of ideas and

9:40

thoughts. So let's work together.

9:42

Let's actually make something really interesting happen.

9:44

So I'm very happy that we're

9:46

here today. You'll hear a little bit

9:48

more about some of the cool work that we're already

9:50

doing. I have to ask, how

9:53

did the name

9:55

evolve? Why is

9:57

it identical? Is it a

9:59

combination of names? Does it mean

10:01

something unique? I'm always curious

10:03

about your company name. Hello

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to register today. We'll see

10:37

you there. Yeah,

10:44

there was a lot of questions

10:46

about the name but when I

10:48

when I started the company I

10:50

was thinking about a good name

10:52

and what we do is is

10:54

about identity Yeah, the only thing

10:56

is in English in the UK.

10:58

They will say why then take

11:00

so Is it is a bit

11:02

of different name there? So

11:04

if you ask me identity name

11:06

wasn't that good, but it sticks.

11:09

So that's maybe that's that's even

11:11

better It's

11:13

about identity, Dux. Got

11:15

it, got it, got it. And I have to

11:17

put Mario on this spot. When he first

11:19

met you, did he pronounce the name right of

11:21

the company? I think so. Yeah, I think

11:23

so. Yeah. Not everyone. Because

11:25

I have to tell you, I'm

11:27

guilty, right? On one hand, I give

11:29

people a hard time about our

11:31

company's name, you know, AvidPoint, AvidPoint. In

11:33

fact, I have a video on

11:35

LinkedIn how to pronounce my company name.

11:37

Yeah, I saw that one. I

11:39

saw that one with the first conversations

11:41

I wanted to know. How do

11:43

you pronounce the name? And I saw

11:45

your YouTube video. And

11:48

then here I am, when I started talking

11:50

to Mario about this, I said, oh, identity,

11:52

identity. He's like, no, it's not identity. Is

11:55

it identity? But

11:58

I think to me, that's important, right?

12:01

It's so different than your name, Jorn,

12:03

or Mario, or Dux. Yeah.

12:08

And the name was also, the brand should

12:10

also be the name of the software. And

12:13

that's what I really wanted to do. because

12:16

everything what we do is around the

12:18

identity, the end user that we want to

12:20

help. So,

12:22

yeah, that's why I came up with that name.

12:25

So, to our listeners out there,

12:27

again, repeat after me. I -dente. There

12:29

you go. Okay. So,

12:31

Jorn, when you start talking with the

12:33

App Point team, you met Mario, you met

12:35

Kobe, Tamim. In fact, I

12:38

recall the first time

12:40

I knew of your company

12:42

was at ESPC 2023. your

12:45

booth is behind our booth. Me and

12:47

Tameem were looking, like, wow,

12:49

that's pretty cool technology. And I think

12:51

Tameem started talking to you back then. So

12:54

which aspects of AdPoint caught

12:56

your attention and realized, wow, there

12:58

may be something here, right?

13:01

After one conversation, 10 conversations, so

13:03

when did you see the

13:05

possibilities? Yeah,

13:09

we also were at the ESPC.

13:11

We served drinks with alcohol, so

13:13

probably you also saw that. But

13:17

when did I see that?

13:19

Well, when we were in MSP,

13:21

we had customers, larger customers, that

13:24

also had system

13:26

integrators working for them.

13:29

And some of them used backup

13:31

software, migration software, from which

13:33

brand? Fpoint. Then

13:36

I already knew that Fpoint

13:38

had something... enhance that could

13:40

help MSP's customers for and

13:43

of course in the SharePoint

13:45

scene. Back up

13:47

everything that you need to

13:49

do for managing your SharePoint,

13:51

your online workspaces. FPoint

13:54

was already on top of that. And

13:57

then I already got my

13:59

first impressions of the brand and

14:01

always remembered that. So when

14:03

I saw FPoint at ESPC, I

14:05

was thinking, hey, Nice guys,

14:07

I want to talk with them,

14:10

just have a good chat. Talk

14:12

with Tamim and there was a

14:15

very good vibe between us. Because

14:17

you were into the security, the governance,

14:19

the AI part and we were in

14:21

the user management identity space. And

14:24

I was thinking maybe,

14:26

maybe some time. But

14:28

Dux, we weren't ready yet. We

14:30

weren't ready yet. We

14:32

didn't want to be acquired because

14:34

we thought we first want to

14:36

move on to the Nordics. to

14:38

the UK, growing

14:40

the company ourselves. But

14:43

that was a bit harder

14:46

than expected. Quick question. At

14:48

that time, the market you

14:50

serve is primarily in the

14:52

Beninord region. Is that where

14:54

it is? Yeah. Yeah, correct.

14:56

Correct. And we wanted

14:58

to expand, of course. So now when

15:00

you made the decision, okay, I

15:02

think this is a good match. What

15:04

are some of the key value

15:06

you saw if if

15:08

you join our point. Well,

15:11

I realized that when we

15:13

had the first conversation with

15:15

Mario, with Kobe, with

15:17

the rest of the team, and

15:19

we talked about vision, where do

15:21

we want to go as a company? And

15:24

I want to have a globally skilled

15:26

company. I want to

15:28

make global impact. But

15:31

then you also need to

15:33

be in every country, in every...

15:39

area or what did they say

15:41

and well all over the world

15:43

and we didn't have that we

15:45

also Didn't have the team the

15:48

resources for that and in the

15:50

Netherlands in Europe. It's very difficult

15:52

to Get the right people if

15:54

you know what I mean And

15:56

in that conversation Mario said but

15:58

but John we already are a

16:00

global skilled company We already have

16:03

offices in the UK in Sweden

16:05

in Germany in the Netherlands, and

16:08

it's not only sales, it's also pre -sales,

16:10

it's marketing, it's everything, so we can

16:12

really help you with that. And

16:14

also the whole enterprise architecture

16:16

that you have as f -point

16:19

for the elements platform already in

16:21

place, and we wanted to

16:23

scale, but if you want to

16:25

scale with that, you also

16:27

need the IT people, the techs,

16:29

that are also being responsible

16:31

for the architecture and all infrastructure

16:33

of your SaaS products. And

16:35

that combination of what we

16:38

need is, and I think

16:40

also what we could offer

16:42

fPoint and fPoint's customers, that

16:44

was, in my opinion, that was

16:47

a golden match. Fantastic. And

16:49

certainly, we're very

16:51

excited that identity is now

16:53

part of the app point. ecosystem.

16:56

And Mario, you know, one of the

16:58

things here at AppPoint, we're really pursuing

17:01

and doubling down is really investing in

17:03

our channel, especially investing in a lot

17:05

of our MSPs, because we can see

17:07

the opportunity, certainly not only for us,

17:09

but for our MSPs to grow and

17:11

expand their business. We get feedback from

17:13

a lot of MSPs like, how do

17:15

we make ourselves different? How do we

17:17

build upon this relationship we have with

17:19

customers already? So maybe Mario,

17:22

can you expand further on

17:24

what Identity brings to the

17:26

table. How can MSPs leverage

17:28

some of the automation that

17:30

Jorn started with, the self -service

17:32

portal, as we integrate this

17:34

to elements? We talk often

17:36

on this podcast or moving so fast.

17:39

How do you help

17:41

organizations find ways that

17:43

help them transform their

17:45

own customers? We

17:48

start with that thought and

17:50

immediately when we think about

17:52

the opportunity in particular to

17:54

the managed service providers that

17:56

are our partners, how

17:58

do you help them keep up with cloud,

18:00

with AI, with the demand, and then

18:03

contextualize that to end clients that

18:05

want to just focus on the priorities

18:07

of their business? And there

18:09

are three important challenges we're addressing

18:11

now with the work we're doing

18:13

with the identity team. And as

18:15

you all mentioned, the integration to

18:17

the elements platform. And those

18:19

are, you have operational efficiency, which is

18:21

super critical. it emphasizes the

18:24

need for a technology platform

18:26

that scales. And so, as

18:28

Jorn mentioned, the elements platform

18:30

was on a journey, was

18:32

at a place where we

18:34

had matured so many aspects

18:36

that introduced that architecture for

18:38

multi -tenant management that gave

18:40

the security controls that would

18:42

allow the managed service provider

18:44

to lead with. a relationship

18:46

of trust so that their

18:48

end customers could say, yes,

18:50

you could operate and run

18:52

my IT. But

18:54

of course, we all know the

18:56

MSP wants to make sure they can

18:58

deliver that quality and that service

19:01

in an efficient, cost -effective way. So

19:03

we see that now with the platform,

19:05

you can do that. You want

19:07

to go to a platform that you

19:09

could really say, these capabilities add

19:11

extra value so I can come back

19:13

to my end customer and say,

19:15

I was doing this for you yesterday.

19:17

Tomorrow, I can do this for

19:19

you. And that allows them to really

19:22

sustain that revenue stream, right? Super

19:24

important to make sure there's margin space

19:26

there. And so that's one

19:28

thing that we're super excited about. And

19:30

then of course, there's the focus

19:32

that the workloads in the platform

19:35

will be primarily on the second

19:37

point, which is cybersecurity and compliance. MSPs

19:39

are facing, the master's providers are

19:41

facing many challenges keeping up with. cybersecurity

19:44

threats, regulatory compliance. We're starting to

19:46

see regulation come in. You and I

19:48

often have guests on this podcast

19:50

that talk about the intersection of regulation

19:52

now with AI. How is that

19:54

going to shape? How is that going

19:56

to look? Well, that only

19:58

introduces more complexity into the

20:00

way, you know, midsize

20:02

organizations, small size organizations

20:04

and even enterprise organizations go to

20:06

market with their service and products.

20:08

So we are thinking about those

20:10

things and with the Identity capabilities

20:13

and how they look at user

20:15

identity and user management We can

20:17

now you know how all of

20:19

that connectivity in the platform So

20:21

the cyber security and compliance offering

20:23

now in elements strengthens because of

20:25

that and then the third is

20:27

market differentiation which is vital for

20:30

the mana source provider competitive environment

20:32

super dynamic and How do you

20:34

sustain growth? How do

20:36

you help that mana source provider be able

20:38

to reach a broader market be able to

20:40

do it? with a

20:42

very small area of

20:44

friction and implementation, delivery

20:47

of the technology. With

20:49

Identics Approach to User and Change

20:52

Management, for example, we can

20:54

align with those goals. We can

20:56

ensure that they're able to

20:58

remediate quickly, et cetera. So this

21:00

is sort of the recipe

21:02

that really has us excited. And

21:05

we're already working on the

21:07

implementation of this, and you and

21:09

I were together a few

21:11

weeks ago at NASDAQ, showcasing to

21:13

a community of our partners

21:15

that joined us there for the

21:18

closing bell ceremony about how

21:20

exciting this is, and we showed

21:22

already what the elements next

21:24

generation is offering, and that's because

21:26

of the work we immediately

21:28

started doing with URN. to

21:30

appreciate you're in your commitment, your passion. You

21:32

write it, we say like, hey, let me jump

21:34

in, let's get on, let's jump on planes

21:36

and go see the teams and start working on

21:39

this. And so we're super interested in doing

21:41

that. And then the last thing I'll say is

21:43

back to your question, I think the trends

21:45

move, but we want to move with those trends.

21:47

And so we want our partners to see

21:49

us as a vehicle for success. You

21:51

know, that's, that hits the nail in the

21:53

head, right? Because I work a lot with partners

21:55

around the world in the common feedbacks always. They

21:58

have two challenges. One, we always

22:00

have to grow our business, increase revenue.

22:03

But at the same time, the

22:05

feedback I get is, Ducks, we can only

22:07

do so much because there's all these

22:09

operational stuff we have to do. You know,

22:11

we take on a new customer, we

22:13

have to configure the tenant, we have to

22:15

maintain the tenant, and a lot of

22:17

manual work is done. So the

22:19

goal for the elements platforms, sure,

22:22

help them make more money, introduce new

22:24

services, but at the same time,

22:26

scale the operational efficiency with automation, optimization,

22:28

and a lot of these capabilities

22:30

that today they don't have or they

22:32

would do it manually or PowerShell

22:35

script it, right? I mean,

22:37

Jorn, you come from an MSP

22:39

background. Does these pain points resonate

22:41

with you as well? And you

22:43

talk a lot with MSPs, do

22:45

you think that this

22:47

platform story is advantageous to

22:49

them and also helps

22:52

them build their business long

22:54

-term? Yeah, I really think

22:56

that it's... ducks. It's

22:58

key. If you're not going to change,

23:00

then you will lose in this game.

23:03

And what I see at when we were in MSP,

23:06

we were the largest MSP

23:08

in the Netherlands. Microsoft

23:11

also number one Microsoft partner in

23:13

the days. And I'm talking about

23:15

more than it's already 15 years

23:17

ago that we already had a

23:20

managed workspace solution that we offer

23:22

to our customers. And our goal

23:24

was standardizing, automating, and self -service

23:26

as much as you can do.

23:28

Because if you have everything in

23:30

place as an IT company, as

23:33

an MSP, you can focus

23:35

on your customer. You can

23:37

focus on the benefits that they can

23:39

leverage from everything that you offer. And

23:41

IT, it should

23:44

just work. They

23:46

don't want to have any complications.

23:48

It should work like, well, plug

23:50

and play. Just like

23:52

plug and play. All

23:55

the stress that you get

23:57

of all the manual tasks, all

23:59

the human error that you

24:01

get, if, well, for example, if

24:03

you have someone, you

24:05

need to add a new user, and

24:07

their name is Renee. In

24:10

the Netherlands, you can

24:12

pronounce Renee in, I

24:14

think, five, six different

24:16

ways. So how are you

24:18

gonna do that? So human

24:20

error is very, very

24:22

high risk. in standardizing

24:25

your business. Because if

24:27

you're standardized, you also are predictable.

24:29

And if you are predictable, you

24:31

know what you're doing. So if something

24:33

happens to one customer and you are

24:35

already standardized, you can also fix

24:37

it very easily for all those other customers. So

24:41

your focus isn't on

24:43

fixing 100, 200 servers. No,

24:46

your focus is only fixing one

24:48

thing. And you can take the

24:50

time that you have to bring

24:52

customers more benefits. Apple,

24:54

right? They make

24:56

it easy. But behind the scenes, I'm sure it took

24:58

a lot of work. Making things

25:00

easy is the most difficult thing to

25:02

do. That's right. You know, Mario

25:05

and I talk a lot about how the

25:07

Apple ecosystem is a platform. Everything

25:09

just works. I mean, Mario

25:11

gives me a hard time because I still use

25:13

Android. I'm a geek. But

25:15

every time I get a new phone, I just got

25:17

a new phone. I kid

25:19

you not, it takes me two days. to

25:22

make sure my data is there,

25:24

all the logins are right, and

25:26

my kids have an iPhone. When

25:28

they have a new phone, you know, there's the circle,

25:30

I just do that. Five minutes

25:33

is done, everything's there, right? And

25:35

then you can focus on what's important.

25:37

I think that's the key, especially in

25:39

this drastic day of change, right? So

25:41

we all know AI is gonna happen

25:43

to everybody. It doesn't matter how big

25:45

or how small your company is, it's

25:47

just a matter of when. And

25:50

as service providers, we should stay

25:52

ahead of that. We should be the

25:54

partner. We should be the advisor

25:56

to our customers and not be, you

25:58

know, in the office, working on

26:00

patching servers every Tuesday. You

26:02

know, that shouldn't happen anymore. Now, they

26:04

should trust you as an MSP, as

26:06

a service refiler. Really a trusted advisor

26:08

role that that's what you have as

26:10

an MSP nowadays. It's

26:12

not about that IT anymore. It's about

26:15

more than that. That's right. I

26:17

mean, I mean Mario, we we're

26:19

doubling down. We're going to invest in

26:21

AI data analytics. So how do

26:23

you see these things now integrate in

26:25

shaping the future of our offerings

26:28

alongside? Identity

26:30

and you're now providing

26:32

his expertise in that

26:34

field so that Like

26:36

Jorn said we can

26:38

help MSPs to sit

26:40

with the business, to be more proactive

26:42

versus then just being reactive and doing

26:45

just a lot of the day -to -day

26:47

stuff. You know, so what you were

26:49

just saying resonates a lot. It

26:51

starts, the conversations usually start

26:53

when you're sitting down with leaders

26:55

in the partner community, whether

26:57

it's a managed service provider, even

26:59

system integrators. And you

27:01

talk often about how do I

27:03

maximize profitability while delivering service that

27:05

brings true value to my end

27:08

customers. And there's usually six six

27:10

common questions I get. When

27:12

I work with AppPoint as a partner,

27:15

you need to give me things that help

27:17

my integration be super easy. The

27:19

second is cost

27:21

-effective solutions. How

27:24

do I co -manage the solution? I don't want to

27:26

be completely alone. What support will AppPoint give me behind

27:28

the scenes? So we can

27:30

make sure the application stack is

27:32

running smooth. Plug and

27:34

play, you guys talk about that, right? How

27:36

do you make it so it's an

27:38

easy lift? The third is role -based access

27:40

controls, oftentimes, because you want

27:42

to have dimensions of visibility

27:44

into the data based on the

27:46

roles. This gives the MSP

27:49

more flexibility as they're building out

27:51

their service practice. And

27:53

then you have the fourth would

27:56

be, look, we need reports.

27:58

We need to show evidence that we're actually

28:00

watching, seeing things happen, making those changes.

28:02

How do we deliver that to our end

28:04

customer? And then the last two,

28:06

one being a streamlined customer deployments. So

28:08

this way you can onboard customers quick,

28:10

right? You want to make it painless.

28:13

This goes back to this plug -and -play concept. And

28:15

then the last is, you know, we need

28:18

to do this all centrally. So these

28:20

are the questions that usually happen. And

28:22

then we start there. And then specific

28:24

to your question, I think there's the

28:26

automation that we're delivering now. It primarily

28:28

is driven by four key areas that

28:30

we are thinking of. What's

28:32

the opportunity for that partner in

28:35

what workloads to really bring differentiation

28:37

to them? So tenant -based management

28:39

and enforcement, we talked about that.

28:41

I want to be able to

28:43

do a quick view and level

28:45

set and understand what's the configuration

28:47

set up? How do I enforce

28:49

security controls when there's gaps and

28:51

things that are open for exposure

28:53

or bring risk to the business? Do

28:56

that very quick and then show evidence. And then

28:58

many times the reaction from the end cost maybe

29:00

like, wow, I didn't even know I had those

29:02

vulnerabilities. Right. That's good. That

29:04

leads us right into cyber protection, which

29:06

is true implementation. We're not just saying,

29:08

oh, cyber protection is do, do the

29:10

things that you have to do and

29:12

then, you know, make sure it's a

29:14

behavioral thing. No, it needs to be

29:16

actually, you know, technology that's watching the

29:18

environment and also anticipate and helping you

29:20

remediate. So we're giving you that in

29:22

the platform. There's of course

29:24

the identity. We talked about this, right?

29:26

going back to even the genesis

29:28

of the identity name. Identity matters a

29:30

lot because it drives a lot

29:33

of the decisions the software is making

29:35

around what is the information set,

29:37

what's the activity action. And

29:39

so differentiating from other companies is because

29:41

when you come to the AppPoint elements

29:43

platform, you will be able to cultivate

29:45

the type of identity management that you

29:47

can deliver to your end customer in

29:49

an easy way to explain, an

29:51

easy way to deliver. And then you're ultimately

29:53

in the place of Well, what's the

29:55

digital workplace environment like, right? That's when you

29:57

and I are out there and we

30:00

talk to clients that are saying, my digital

30:02

workplace is very complex. I'm using this

30:04

service. I'm using that service. You know, I

30:06

subscribe to this new IT service provider. That

30:09

environment gets more complex. So workspace

30:11

management done through a platform that can

30:13

see and understand those signals. It's

30:16

super important. And at the end

30:18

of the day, what's going to happen

30:20

is, you know, governance now for everyone is

30:22

top of mind, especially with AI. So

30:24

if I can now have a framework that

30:26

I can do true governance, not just

30:28

have a, you know, a book that says

30:30

what are my policies, but actually truly

30:32

see them take action, then I think we're

30:34

going to be, you know, incredible at

30:36

maximizing the profitability and creating those new revenue

30:38

streams. So, so these are the things

30:41

that we think about. And this is where,

30:43

you know, the main focus is for

30:45

us going back to NASDAQ event. So for

30:47

our listeners, we had a fantastic NASDAQ

30:49

event where we launched the next generation elements.

30:51

And one thing we showed our key

30:53

partners was this idea of

30:56

telling how ready the customers

30:58

are with AI. It's

31:00

built into the elements platform. So

31:02

imagine if you're an MSP provider

31:04

and having that insight and it

31:06

will say, well, number one, this

31:08

customer from a data perspective has

31:10

this score. They're not quite ready

31:12

because there's a lot of oversharing.

31:14

Data is not as secure. There's

31:17

a lot of redundant, obviously trivial

31:19

data. So their data is not quite

31:21

ready, but Here's the recommendation on

31:23

how to fix it. So this is

31:25

where Mario's talking about proactive remediation.

31:27

Imagine you're an MSP. You can go

31:29

to your customer either for free

31:32

or you can charge a one day

31:34

consulting service and say, let me

31:36

assess your data estate. How ready

31:38

are you for AI? Because we know

31:40

data fuels AI. So that's one part of

31:42

readiness. But then at the

31:44

same time, once they adopt AI,

31:47

you still have to measure How

31:49

adoptions happen because we all know right

31:51

people get excited with new technology. Maybe

31:53

the first week they all use it

31:55

and after that Right and they and

31:57

they spend what 30 bucks user a

31:59

month for a license for Gen AI

32:01

specific copilot So as an MSP, I

32:03

can go back and say hey, this

32:05

is what's happening You know the marketing

32:07

team is using it, but the sales

32:09

team is not Maybe they don't really

32:11

need it. Let's reallocate the license or

32:13

they do need it. Maybe Let's

32:15

do more training, right? So these

32:18

are the kinds of insights a platform

32:20

can provide MSP equip them and

32:22

make them more knowledgeable and like as

32:24

Jorn says, be that partner to

32:26

the customer. Indeed, it's an

32:28

exciting time and what we're

32:30

offering as a platform to

32:32

MSPs is like nothing out

32:34

there. So Jorn, what

32:36

emerging technologies do you believe

32:39

will have the biggest impact on

32:41

this industry in the next

32:43

12 to 18 months? Yeah, of

32:45

course, that would be AI. AI

32:48

is like Mario mentioned, also what

32:50

you mentioned, Dux. AI is something

32:52

that we need to leverage. It

32:55

is there. We need to be there. And

32:58

we, as f -point, we

33:00

need to help our

33:03

MSPs, our partners to be

33:05

their trusted advisor for

33:07

their customer, because it's

33:09

not only about AI, because AI is,

33:11

in a way, it's nothing. You

33:13

need to provide them with the use cases. How

33:16

are you going to use AI? How in

33:19

your business? Because every

33:21

business has a different approach.

33:23

So how are you going to

33:26

use it in that way? And

33:28

what I see is also the

33:30

data classification stuff. Because AI can

33:32

only help you if you have

33:34

a very good data classification. We

33:37

also want to help you with that in elements. So

33:40

also that classification can be...

33:42

in a way that's standardized. And

33:45

as an MSP, you can

33:47

use that to provide beautiful insights

33:49

to your customer. Because

33:51

maybe a good example is a lot

33:53

of MSPs, they sell security. And

33:56

after a year, nothing happened. So

33:58

the customer would say, I

34:00

don't need your security service anymore,

34:02

because I'm paying $250 for

34:05

that each month. But

34:07

if you show them what you did, that

34:10

you add that they maybe even

34:12

had 20 attacks in that year, but

34:15

you fix it for them. And

34:17

they didn't have any disruptions

34:19

in their whole business. That's

34:22

what we need to show them. And

34:24

AI can also help with that,

34:26

to predict things that are gonna

34:28

happen, or things that you need,

34:30

and we are gonna provide that

34:32

in elements platforms so you keep

34:34

in front of the game. You

34:36

know, I love that example. And

34:38

I want to take it further.

34:40

So I had a speaking with

34:42

a MSP partner here in DC.

34:46

And that's exactly what he said. He said,

34:48

look, the platform not

34:50

only shows me so I can

34:52

inform my customer, but it

34:54

can fix it too. Because

34:57

there's a lot of technology out there that

34:59

can show you what the problem is. But

35:01

then I have to go manually fix

35:03

it. I have to write PowerShell script.

35:05

I have to go to this console

35:07

or that tool. But the

35:09

beauty here is it can fix it.

35:11

I have the option to fix it

35:14

manually or the tool can automatically fix

35:16

it It makes it easy for me

35:18

to do the right thing and it's

35:20

not just being reactive. It could be

35:22

proactive and I think more and more

35:24

The way technology is changing the way

35:26

data is growing the way AI is

35:28

being used I mean AI is going

35:30

to generate more data. You talk about

35:33

data classification And let's talk about storage

35:35

right storage would just grow You

35:39

don't want 15, 20 -year -old data

35:41

sitting in your environment and AI picks

35:43

that up because, again, it's only as

35:45

good as the data, right? And that's

35:47

where we as MSPs can help. Make

35:50

sure data is optimized, it's secured in a

35:52

proactive way. And we don't just wait when

35:54

bad things happen or we don't just wait

35:56

when customer comes back and say, hey, you

35:58

know, my Gen AI showed a

36:01

report from 20 years ago. That's something

36:03

we don't want. And I think

36:05

to your point, Yorn, this is really

36:07

the exciting stuff, and this is

36:09

what can make your MSP offering different

36:11

than everybody else. Yeah,

36:15

and Mario, so as this

36:17

whole world is changing, right,

36:20

certainly we see customers not

36:22

just relying on one hyperscaler

36:24

anymore, not just one cloud.

36:26

Frankly, everybody's going multi -cloud.

36:29

How do you envision the

36:31

relationship between MSPs and all

36:33

the hyperscalers evolving? And

36:35

what does this mean for

36:37

MSPs? It's a

36:39

question that we often debate

36:42

in the office and we

36:44

workshop around. And oftentimes, if

36:46

you were to walk in

36:48

there, you'd see like probably

36:50

14 different categories. But

36:53

maybe to keep it... keep the

36:55

answer succinct. I'll kind of highlight probably

36:57

some of the more interesting ones. It

37:00

starts with customer centricity

37:02

views. I think one

37:04

of the things that's unique about

37:07

us is, and I think this is

37:09

also part of what we were

37:11

discussing at the start when I met

37:13

Yorn, is that we have a

37:15

very unique point of view. where

37:17

we actually go out there engaged

37:19

directly with the customer, talk about

37:21

that complexity, come back to the

37:24

office and figure out how do

37:26

we as technology producers solve these

37:28

challenges and these problems to help

37:30

customers move ahead. And

37:32

that point of view matters a lot

37:34

because you're really in the front lines of

37:36

what is it that the impact has

37:38

to be in an organization to transform them.

37:41

Bringing that customer centering point of view and

37:43

focus. To the work we're doing

37:45

here in the context of our channel

37:47

partners and helping them I think is

37:49

tremendous value, right? It's basically

37:51

they get to work with a company

37:53

that is not, you know, two

37:56

degrees separated from the market They're right

37:58

in market with Colline. So I

38:00

think that that allows us to ship

38:02

in product The right capabilities that

38:04

make it their films and then of

38:06

course the second thing we look

38:08

at is Well, how do you do

38:11

all of this and deliver it?

38:13

And what are the cost challenges in

38:15

doing that? Because how do you

38:17

create the margin room? How do you

38:19

allow MSPs? And you may recall,

38:21

we showcase a great video from one

38:23

of our partners that mentioned, listen,

38:26

for every dollar I'm spending without, there's

38:28

five. That's very

38:30

powerful. That's the kind of

38:32

conversation and metric that our

38:34

partner leaders want to hear. So

38:37

the cost challenge is important. And because

38:39

we have technology at scale, we

38:42

are finding ways to

38:44

really monetize. Because our technology

38:46

has interoperability and extensibility, we

38:48

find ways to make sure we

38:50

can deliver that at the optimal

38:53

price point and right margin room.

38:55

And that creates a revenue opportunity. So

38:57

revenue and profitability are important in

38:59

how you deliver a service. So

39:02

all of those are ways in

39:04

which we come back and say,

39:06

if we are a provider, and

39:08

we see this multi -cloud ecosystem,

39:10

as you mentioned, ducks, then

39:12

let's make sure we understand

39:15

how to make the platform scale

39:17

for those needs. So

39:19

ultimately, that MSP in

39:21

this case, or that partner that's using

39:23

our product to deliver value to

39:25

the end customer, can move wherever the

39:27

customer goes. It also allows them

39:29

to be cross -industry, which is also

39:31

fantastic, so it widens the playing field

39:33

for them in terms of the

39:35

market they can reach. Then

39:37

there's others like obviously we think about

39:39

differentiation. I mentioned that already. We think

39:42

about sustainability and growth. How do we

39:44

keep shipping and delivering innovation? Obviously

39:46

the pace of innovation now because

39:48

of AI have been amplified. And

39:50

so the AI perspective is also

39:52

important because if we can deliver

39:54

insights, then we can also anticipate

39:57

where issues may lie. And if

39:59

you do all of this under

40:01

the umbrella of security, then I

40:03

think you're in a great position

40:05

honestly to to be the kind

40:07

of provider that could also offer

40:09

room for extensive opportunity. And

40:11

that also transforms our relationship. The

40:13

last thing I'll say is we don't forget about

40:15

the relationship part. We talked

40:17

also about the program that we

40:19

have that we've amplified the program

40:21

to make sure we're there along

40:23

that partner and helping them bring

40:25

the solution to market. So all

40:27

of those things put together, I

40:29

think, in many ways, is what

40:31

helps this relationship. and this evolution

40:33

that we're going through so that

40:35

there could be more opportunities for

40:37

them in the market. That's awesome.

40:40

So Yorn, we've

40:43

talked a lot

40:45

about the business, the

40:47

industry, the shift, and

40:49

we can keep talking and on

40:51

and on. Before we wrap

40:53

up though, I want to go

40:56

back to where we started this conversation

40:58

about the acquisition. How

41:00

has it been? In the

41:02

last couple months, specifically, not only

41:04

yourself with the team, how are

41:06

things going and how's the culture

41:08

fit been? How's

41:10

the rest of the team integrating

41:12

with the broader AppPoint family? Yeah,

41:16

well, Dirk, I'm not getting paid for

41:18

this. Well, you know. Disclaimer,

41:22

we're all getting paid, but for this answer,

41:24

you're not getting paid. He

41:27

gets a t -shirt though. He

41:29

gets a t -shirt at the end

41:31

of the show. Yeah, it's a

41:33

bigger canvas. It's faster deployment. It's

41:35

it's faster development What you see

41:38

our our team they they have

41:40

the opportunity now to work on

41:42

a very large scale with with

41:44

all the f -point colleagues that

41:46

we have we can also accelerate

41:48

development and What what you see

41:50

what I see is that when

41:52

we started I think it was

41:54

only a few days after acquisition

41:56

We already had a team of

41:59

f -point people in our office. No,

42:01

not in a defensive way, but in a

42:03

very open way. Open minded. Guys,

42:05

we are going to work

42:07

together. We don't see Identic

42:10

as a different company. No, it's one

42:12

of us. You are one of us.

42:14

We are f -point. Everyone. And

42:16

we're here to help. And that

42:18

stick to my mind. We want

42:20

to help you. Because we

42:22

have a goal. We want to conquer

42:24

the world. And

42:27

Mario was also telling me, tell

42:29

me, how can we help? Same

42:31

question with GP, with John

42:33

Paluso. Same question. How

42:35

can I help you? And

42:37

that really helped help me

42:40

and also making the decision

42:42

and the acquisition. Because

42:45

it's a very

42:47

warm welcome. I

42:49

went to the SKO in

42:51

Madrid, in Spain, staying

42:53

there. Everyone is very polite,

42:55

they want to know, they also

42:57

want to know your background

42:59

story. And currently

43:01

we don't have it about

43:04

a proposition, but definitely it's

43:06

about the why. Why

43:08

do you do things? And why

43:10

do you need things? Well,

43:12

we did

43:14

it to improve,

43:17

to getting better. And

43:19

also from what I see currently

43:21

with the team, There

43:23

was a team this week was also in

43:25

the office. And

43:27

everyone is very positive

43:29

about it. Enthusiasm is

43:31

there. They see the bigger

43:34

picture. They see that they can

43:36

now work on that global scale. Yeah,

43:40

really helps, really helps. So

43:42

to our listeners, again, it's Jorn saying

43:45

this. He didn't get paid. He's

43:48

saying this. Sincerely,

43:50

and in all seriousness, this is

43:52

really good to hear because you

43:54

hear horror stories, right, about acquisitions. You

43:57

know, the beginning, everything's great, you

43:59

know, we'll work together, but once the

44:01

acquisition happens, unfortunately, in some

44:03

cases, it doesn't work out. So

44:05

I'm glad this far

44:08

down the road, it's working

44:10

out better than everybody's

44:12

expected. Maybe to add to

44:14

that one, Dux.

44:16

Yeah, that's true, but it's really about

44:18

culture. And in the first

44:20

conversations that I had with Mario and the

44:22

team, it was about a cultural fit. Is

44:25

there a fit? If there is not a cultural fit, it's

44:28

not going to work. And

44:30

together with the aligned

44:32

vision that we had as

44:34

the f -point team and

44:36

us, that

44:38

for me, that was

44:40

the key in

44:42

all collaboration together. You

44:51

know, Yorn and Mario,

44:54

as we know, the title of this podcast

44:56

is Shift Happens. So a shift just

44:58

happened. Like,

45:00

Identic is now part of the

45:02

AppPoint team. It's a great

45:04

shift. Any advice for both

45:06

of you, maybe one advice each

45:08

to our listeners, especially entrepreneurs out

45:11

there, that may be considering Maybe

45:13

I should acquire a company or

45:15

maybe I should get acquired. What's

45:19

one takeaway from this experience you both

45:21

have that can impart to our listeners

45:23

as practical as it can be so

45:25

that it can help them shape their

45:27

thinking if they want to make the

45:29

shift happen in their organization? So maybe

45:32

let me start with Mario. Well,

45:34

I would say that's a good question. Maybe

45:38

I think it goes back

45:40

to the chemistry in in the

45:42

ideas that shape the early

45:44

discussions. Pay close attention to

45:46

those. We

45:49

could talk all day about AI and

45:51

technology, but business is more of a

45:53

human element in my view. The

45:56

shaping of the early discussions, how

45:59

both organizations see the

46:01

market, what's the

46:03

focus of value they

46:05

believe has room

46:07

for expansion as well

46:10

as profitability, frankly. Understanding

46:13

that in early discussions

46:15

makes the rest of the

46:17

effort worth it. Because

46:20

as you said, the shift,

46:22

the shift of cultures, the

46:24

shift of ideas, the shift

46:26

of what do we become

46:28

when you and I now

46:30

work together in the spirit

46:32

of two organizations that are

46:34

out there in the market.

46:36

It's always about the human

46:39

side and the leadership. So

46:42

that's where to me, you

46:44

start to identify, is

46:46

this a good target

46:49

for the buyer? And

46:51

then for the seller,

46:54

is this something that feels

46:56

right for the organization and

46:58

team that I care so

47:00

much about? The

47:03

people part of it

47:05

is so important. So

47:07

my advice is the early discussions really tell you

47:09

a lot. I

47:11

love the fact that we both

47:13

naturally just wanted to not even

47:15

keep your laptops closed, no pencils,

47:17

let's just have a conversation about

47:20

what is it that, why are

47:22

we here, what is your interest

47:24

in your future and what is

47:26

our interest in our future. So

47:29

my advice is spend time there, because

47:32

often in the process

47:35

of an acquisition or

47:37

a merger, Obviously, there's

47:39

all the process stuff the paperwork

47:41

and and that takes so much attention

47:43

It's so much detail you and

47:45

you know that right but to me

47:47

pay attention to the early discussion

47:50

meeting the folks listening and Then that

47:52

is what says is this does

47:54

this feel right? Can can we make

47:56

this relationship? You know

47:58

prosper and really really grow that's

48:00

kind of what I would

48:02

say Yeah,

48:06

early alignment that those conversations are so

48:08

rich You know review them and sort

48:10

of like say wow, what did we how

48:12

did we talk about it? What do

48:14

we talk about? What what did they

48:16

care to talk about? What did we care

48:18

to talk about and what really was

48:20

the connection and then Those are to me

48:23

the things that that really start to

48:25

Give you the encouragement that further down

48:27

the road as you expand the group that's

48:29

going to be coming in You

48:31

know, you're kind of representing also many,

48:33

many people's point of view and care

48:35

about the business and the work they've

48:37

been doing on both sides. So that I

48:39

say it would be my advice. Essentially,

48:42

as Jerry Maguire would say, you had me a

48:44

hello, right? What about

48:46

you, Njorn? What about you? What's a one

48:48

take away you have and advice for

48:50

our listeners? Yeah, that would

48:52

add to Mario, of course, because

48:54

it's the cultural thing. But

48:57

what I would say is

48:59

when you... starting a conversation like

49:01

into an acquisition. Of

49:04

course, be well -prepared and you

49:07

need to be prepared also

49:09

not only as a person but

49:11

also as a company. For

49:14

example, we already had

49:16

ISO certification in the

49:18

company. That really

49:20

helped us in becoming a more

49:22

mature organization and it helped us

49:25

also in the due diligence. Because

49:28

yeah, a lot of processes we've already in

49:30

place. So it was just,

49:32

it was easy to do that part.

49:36

But before you start the conversation,

49:39

make a list of what you want.

49:41

Be very, very clear of your

49:43

vision of what you want to do

49:45

in the future. This

49:48

is the moment to share that in

49:50

the first meeting, what you want, who you

49:52

are, what you want, what you're going

49:54

to do, where you want to be in

49:56

five years. Because that will also tell

49:58

the other side how you're in the game.

50:00

What do you want to do? And

50:03

if f -point would have asked

50:05

me that I needed to stay

50:07

in the company, but I

50:09

didn't want to do it, that

50:12

wasn't a fit. I

50:14

told f -point I wanted

50:16

to be there because

50:18

I wasn't ready yet in

50:20

my vision. And

50:22

that really helped in the conversation. Because

50:25

yeah, that's really, it's about the energy

50:27

that you have. And if you feel

50:29

that you are getting positive energy from

50:31

everyone, and you already

50:33

in the conversation that we

50:35

had, even on dinner, we

50:38

talked about some other ideas

50:40

in just to solve problems

50:42

for school kids, then

50:44

you see there's chemistry. And

50:46

if there's chemistry, you can build stuff. If

50:49

it isn't, don't start with it. There

50:52

you go. So that means Yorn hasn't retired

50:54

yet, bought his yacht in 9 -11 GT. With

50:59

that, it's a

51:01

thank you, gentlemen, for this

51:04

fun conversation. And we look

51:06

forward the next time we jam and hopefully

51:08

we do this in person. We

51:10

do this by the beach at The

51:12

Hague. That'll be a fun episode

51:14

to record. Until the next

51:16

episode, thank you everybody for tuning

51:18

in and have a great day. Shift

51:20

Happens Podcast. Thanks for

51:22

tuning in. Yorn

51:24

and Mario shared valuable insights

51:27

on how AI and

51:29

automation are reshaping how MSPs

51:31

operate. It's clear

51:33

that staying ahead requires

51:35

streamlined operations from multi -cloud

51:37

strategies to proactive security, all

51:40

while focusing on culture

51:42

and vision. To

51:44

future -proof your business, now is

51:46

the time to act. Like

51:48

what you heard today? Make

51:50

sure to leave a review and

51:52

subscribe wherever you listen to

51:54

podcasts so you don't miss another

51:56

episode. Until the next time. Shift

52:03

Happens Podcast is

52:05

a production of

52:07

App Point, Inc.

52:09

Produced and edited

52:12

by the App

52:14

Point brand team.

52:16

Stay up to

52:18

date on the

52:20

latest trends in

52:22

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52:24

by visiting apppoint

52:26

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