0:00

Hey, guess what Shopify masters

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is now on YouTube

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So if you want to watch this interview

0:06

instead of just listen to it head over

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to YouTube search for Shopify masters You will

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not want to miss it It's

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never been a better time to be an entrepreneur You

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don't need a team of 10 engineers to build

0:16

a software product like you did 15 years ago Hey,

0:24

how's it going? I'm Shwang Esther

0:26

Shan and this is Shopify Masters,

0:28

your companion for starting and building

0:30

a business. Today's guest

0:32

has turned his lifelong passion

0:34

for entrepreneurship into creating

0:36

a business that helps creators

0:38

become founders. I have a

0:40

really deep understanding of what I think

0:42

they will enjoy being the founder of or

0:44

what they will enjoy promoting. From working

0:47

in tech sales to launching

0:49

one -day entertainment, serial entrepreneur

0:51

Zach Hanover helps YouTube

0:53

giants like Arak and Yes

0:55

Theory skill companies beyond

0:57

content. Too many people have been a little

0:59

bit too precious because it's my face and it's my

1:01

name on the channel. In reality, what often is

1:03

being created is a media company. Zach

1:05

is here to share his secrets

1:08

to building successful merch companies, what

1:10

it takes to succeed as a

1:12

creator, and knowing when to pivot. Thank

1:14

you so much for being here, Zach. Thank

1:16

you for having me. Super excited to be here. This is

1:19

quite the full circle moment for us.

1:22

You actually were one of

1:24

the earliest salespeople at Shopify. You've

1:27

seen some of the biggest brands

1:29

and e -commerce build and scale. What

1:31

do you take from that experience

1:34

with you today? I think one of

1:36

the biggest things was just working in

1:38

tech sales and calling merchants and trying

1:40

to convince them to join the Shopify

1:42

platform. that cold calling experience of

1:44

being able to get on a call and

1:46

have a lot of people hang up on you,

1:48

be rude, say no, showed me

1:50

really early on that no matter how

1:52

good what you sell is, you're going to

1:54

have to go through a million nos

1:56

to find yeses. And I remember

1:58

just being so confident in the offering of the

2:00

Shopify platform for merchants that felt like

2:02

a no -brainer, but still so many people

2:04

just didn't consider it. And learning that lesson

2:06

early on, I think, gave me the

2:09

grit as an entrepreneur to realize that no

2:11

matter how good your idea is, that's just part of the

2:13

process. And also got me really

2:15

confident in picking up a phone and calling someone

2:17

and not waiting or, you know, the art

2:19

of the perseverance of following up. I

2:21

think that Shopify experience was

2:24

pivotal in teaching

2:26

me so many of the skills that I think

2:28

have been helpful to get me where I am today. And

2:30

then it also allows you to travel

2:32

to LA a whole bunch, which allows

2:34

you to meet some very important people.

2:37

How did you end up managing some

2:39

of the biggest creators on YouTube?

2:41

I pitched at the time that I thought it was

2:43

a really good idea for streetwear brands in particular

2:45

to use the Shopify platform. I was like, here

2:47

are the reasons why I think that's the case.

2:49

And please let me travel to the States so

2:51

that I could go to trade shows. to

2:53

try to sign these brands onto the platform. And

2:56

I remember getting the blessing from my boss to

2:58

go out to what is called Agenda in Las

3:00

Vegas. And they were like,

3:02

if you can sign one or two brands, this

3:04

entire trip is worth it. I think I

3:06

came back and had signed six or seven. And

3:09

then they were basically like free reign. If you

3:11

want to go to any trade show, you can

3:13

go to trade shows. And that got me to

3:15

travel to LA, Vegas, New York, Miami. It was

3:17

an unreal opportunity for at the time being like

3:19

a 22, 23 year old. And in one of

3:21

my trips to Los Angeles, a friend was like,

3:23

you should meet these guys that are making YouTube

3:25

videos. It's really interesting. And the whole philosophy is

3:27

to seek discomfort, which is very much like how

3:29

you live your life. And so in one of

3:31

those trips, I went out to LA and the

3:33

guys were Yes Theory, and they had about 100

3:35

,000 subscribers. And they were really

3:37

interested in what I was doing at Shopify. They were

3:40

like, oh, this is so cool. You work in

3:42

e -commerce. You're really familiar with men's fashion. And a

3:44

few months later, they came to me and said, we

3:46

want to start a merch brand. Do you think

3:48

that you could help us evaluate a couple different merch?

3:51

Companies and I looked at a lot of

3:53

the contracts and they were really bad It

3:55

was like one of the contracts with a

3:57

big merch company had them Signing away the

4:00

IP of their brand and then getting it licensed back to

4:02

them and I was like guys do not sign any

4:04

of this It's super predatory like you should just do this

4:06

yourself like Shopify makes this really easy You should just

4:08

do it on Shopify and they were like well We don't

4:10

know how can you help us and so I did

4:12

and that went so well that they kept bringing me other

4:14

creators who were asking them Who does your merch like

4:16

this is really good and we want to do merch too

4:19

And mind you, this is 2016, 2017. So

4:21

it's like the heyday of, you know,

4:23

Maverick Merch by Logan Paul and Fanjoy starting

4:25

out with Jake Paul. And so Merch

4:27

was like the thing. And we came up

4:29

with an idea where we said, you

4:31

know, the innovative way to do it is

4:33

to not hold inventory to do it where it's

4:35

also not print on demand, but you do

4:38

a big sale and then drop model of sorts,

4:40

a drop, a drop model, which at the

4:42

time was super innovative. At least we thought so.

4:44

So we did that. And that went so

4:46

well. We started signing all these other creators and

4:48

actually started a merch company that's still around

4:50

today called fan of a fan that I started

4:52

while I was still at Shopify and Shopify

4:54

even gave me like some of the initial funding

4:57

at the time that a program for people

4:59

that were. starting up businesses using the Shopify platform.

5:01

And that was kind of what got

5:03

me working with the Yes Theory guys. We ended

5:05

up bringing in a third co -founder and person to

5:07

run it in the day to day. And

5:10

that went so well that the guys eventually said, you

5:12

should move to LA and manage us. And I've always

5:14

wanted to be an entrepreneur. In my interview at Shopify,

5:16

I told them this will be the last job I

5:18

ever have and they freaking love that. And

5:20

it's true. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's been

5:23

true so far. That was

5:25

really cool. And so 2017, early

5:28

2018 I left and started

5:30

going to entertainment. I love so many

5:32

parts of that story. I think the

5:34

first part is you seeking out opportunities

5:36

while at Shopify, which I think a

5:38

lot of people don't think about even

5:40

when you're in quote unquote like a

5:43

corporate job in order to make things

5:45

happen. You kind of have to be

5:47

entrepreneurial in the job and then as

5:49

well when you met the guys at

5:51

Yes Theory. You also made that relationship

5:53

develop and also create those opportunities. I

5:55

guess like the question here is like

5:57

how do you know when to kind

5:59

of pursue things and do those pivots?

6:01

It's a really great question. I remember I did

6:03

a guest lecture at a university in Toronto

6:05

around the time that I had left Shopify and

6:07

the topic or the title of that talk

6:09

was how to hack the corporate world to become

6:11

an entrepreneur. And some of the

6:14

things that I had said in that, which I thought

6:16

were if you want to be an entrepreneur, but

6:18

you know, you don't have the resources to do it

6:20

or at the time I had student loans, I

6:22

knew that it wasn't a smart idea to start a

6:24

business with a crippling student loan. So I was

6:26

like, okay, I'll get a job that at least helps

6:28

me build the skill that I need to be

6:30

a successful entrepreneur. And when I reflected on what that would

6:32

be, it was sales. So I was like,

6:34

okay, let me go get a job that will help me

6:36

master the art of sales or at least, you know, progress in

6:38

that. And I think the other thing that

6:40

was in that talk was try your best

6:42

to have a forward facing role, like something that

6:44

helps you interface with external partners. And

6:46

so being able to interface with all these

6:48

different merchants that were in the Shopify ecosystem,

6:50

as well as the partners that ran development

6:53

agencies. Started to build my

6:55

reputation in my network. So I started making

6:57

friends with all these merchants merchants would invite

6:59

me to their events I start to become

7:01

the person that was a subject matter expert

7:03

to people outside of the confines of the

7:05

Shopify walls and so that started to get

7:07

me opportunities people started coming to me and

7:09

saying Hey, would you want a job at

7:11

this company or hey? Would you want to

7:13

start a project together? And obviously one of

7:15

those things that was interfacing with a external

7:17

Company was with the yes there you guys

7:19

themselves. So I think if you want to

7:22

be an entrepreneur, but you're currently in a

7:24

corporate structure, there are certain things that you

7:26

could do like that, putting yourself in an

7:28

external facing role that increase your chances of

7:30

the serendipitous moments that might lead to other

7:32

opportunities. I think the other

7:34

thing was when I felt like I

7:36

wasn't learning anymore and I had tapped

7:38

as close to the metaphorical ceiling as possible

7:40

in terms of what I had to

7:43

take away from that Shopify job in terms

7:45

of learning sales, I had that very honest

7:47

conversation with myself and said, okay, then

7:49

I feel like I've done what I said I would do. Now

7:52

it's just on me to make that leap. And

7:54

I made that decision in one day. I had come back

7:56

from LA meeting with the yes theory guys and I

7:58

sat in the Monday morning sales meeting and I felt

8:00

it inside of me that like, I think I'm

8:02

done here. And then that day I decided,

8:05

okay, I'm going to leave. And that's why the management

8:07

company is called one day entertainment because that decision was

8:09

made in a day. And I

8:11

know this is like such a big

8:13

question, but you've watched these creators

8:15

to your point grow from hundreds of

8:17

thousands to millions and tens of

8:19

millions of subscribers. What do you

8:21

think has set them apart to be able

8:23

to have so much success with content? With

8:26

each of them, it's actually different.

8:28

So I'll say this with the yes

8:30

theory, guys, it is a deep

8:32

sense of authentic purpose. What they're

8:34

trying to create on YouTube and what they've always

8:36

tried to create on YouTube is not trying to

8:38

copy another channel or do what they

8:40

think will get views. It is authentically

8:42

stories that are within them that they

8:45

want to express or things that they

8:47

think should exist in the world that

8:49

don't exist, that they feel uniquely positioned

8:51

to tell. I think a lot of what

8:53

we see with content creators today is chasing

8:55

a trend or chasing a format that is

8:57

like in vogue. And the thing

8:59

that's worked really well for Yes Theory is

9:01

that they really dug deep and said, what is

9:03

the philosophy that we believe in that we

9:05

want to live our lives by? And can we

9:07

document that in a way that other people

9:09

will find interesting? And they

9:11

did that at such a vulnerable

9:13

level as like young men who, you know, we're

9:15

showcasing like we don't want to get to being

9:18

90 years old and on our deathbed and regret

9:20

the life that we've lived. And we want to

9:22

go after the things that have meaning for us.

9:24

We don't want to go into a boring corporate job

9:27

just to like you know chase the milestones that

9:29

society sets out for us and

9:31

At the time even just that motto

9:33

seek discomfort like it was almost controversial.

9:35

It was like oh, you should actively

9:37

become uncomfortable That was something that a

9:39

lot of people didn't it was it

9:41

wasn't like totally agreed and because they were

9:43

able to draw a line in the sand

9:45

and go to that level of vulnerability it

9:48

amassed a bunch of people that agreed. And

9:50

we're like, yeah, we want to live our

9:52

lives that way. And that's true. And I

9:54

think they caught it at a very interesting

9:57

moment where it was becoming a very popular

9:59

philosophy for young people that were looking at what their

10:01

parents had done and said, I don't want to do

10:03

that. I want to travel the world. I want to

10:05

have a more unique job. And I think that's what

10:07

really worked for them. With Eric, I

10:09

think it has been a relentless

10:11

curiosity of how do I make

10:13

really entertaining content and what is

10:15

the Almost like the science

10:17

underneath these videos that get people

10:19

to enjoy them. And what is

10:21

viewer satisfaction at a rudimentary level?

10:24

What's interesting is that you're able

10:26

to take both of their ethos and

10:28

build businesses that actually make a

10:30

lot of sense. The clothing lines

10:32

seek discomfort with Yes Siri and

10:35

also Pizzify with Eric. So

10:37

I guess like talk to us about

10:39

building businesses that make sense for creators. communities

10:42

and also that kind of like

10:44

grows outside of their content as well.

10:46

Yeah, for sure. I think one of the

10:49

main things is the level of relationship

10:51

that I have with both the S3 guys

10:53

as well as Eric is so intimate

10:55

and we're such good friends that I have

10:57

a really deep understanding of what I

10:59

think they will enjoy being the founder of

11:01

or what they will enjoy promoting.

11:03

I think sometimes when creator operator

11:05

or creator businesses don't work, it's

11:07

like, oh, this creator Targets

11:10

this audience and therefore this product will work

11:12

for them I think that that's like a

11:14

very surface level someone in a boardroom is

11:16

looking at it being like the audience is

11:18

70 % male therefore a burger would work and

11:20

I don't think that that works I think

11:22

the reason that some of these swings have

11:24

been successful have been more that we really

11:26

sit down and I try to understand like

11:28

okay I know this person at a very

11:30

intimate friendly level Do I think they're gonna

11:32

enjoy promoting a clothing brand for the next

11:34

ten years of their life? Do they enjoy?

11:37

and take pride in the apparel that they put on their

11:39

bodies? Do they like looking at designs and

11:41

picking between 10 and picking their

11:43

favorite? And the answer to that

11:45

for the S Theory guys was yes. Amar is

11:47

the visionary behind a lot of the designs of

11:49

the brand. And he'll stop people on the

11:51

street and go, where'd you get this? And like,

11:53

can I take a picture of the tag? What's

11:55

the materials this built off of? And so

11:57

I knew that for decades, he'll enjoy doing that.

12:00

And then there's like other things where, you know,

12:02

you look at say, okay, what is the

12:04

demographic of the audience? Is the reason that

12:06

people watch this channel related to the reason

12:08

that they might buy this product? For

12:10

Yes Theory, I think most of their

12:12

community, especially the most diehard members of

12:14

their community, watch their content because they

12:16

feel inspired by that philosophy. And

12:19

when you're inspired by something, you want to

12:21

wear it, you want to represent it. Like,

12:23

you know, we wear jewelry or chains or

12:25

crosses because of our religions and our spirituality

12:27

and what we want to represent to the

12:29

world. And so that felt like, okay, well,

12:31

some other people may not want to do

12:33

a merch company or not, probably shouldn't do a merch

12:35

company because it's just too taboo. But for the yes

12:37

theory, guys, it's really a philosophy that people want to

12:39

wear on their chest. And so that was kind of

12:41

the decision there. And I feel like

12:43

you were early in the curve as well. This

12:45

is like before all creators were dropping some

12:47

sort of merch. So I feel like you were

12:49

definitely a trendsetter in that as well. The

12:52

thing that I would say like we were earlier

12:54

on was When people

12:56

were doing drops, they'll say, here's this

12:58

shirt, buy it. If you buy it,

13:00

it won't get to you for six to

13:02

eight weeks because what will happen on the

13:04

back end is that they'll take all the

13:06

orders, send that to a place with an

13:08

order of the garments. That garment will get

13:10

sent to another location where they'll actually like

13:12

embroider or screen print on that garment. And

13:14

then they'll send it from that building to

13:16

another building, which is like a 3PL or

13:19

a fulfillment building where then it will get.

13:21

picked impact, put into a polyester bag, and

13:23

then shipped out to the end customer. And

13:25

the thing that we realize is every time

13:27

this sends from the garment building to

13:29

the print shop to the 3PL, there's

13:32

two to three to four days of receiving,

13:34

two to three or four days of shipping.

13:36

And depending on what states those are all

13:38

in adds additional time. So the reason

13:40

that that would end up taking six to

13:42

eight weeks is because there are three different businesses

13:44

talking to one another. And so we

13:46

were like, what if we just put this all under one

13:49

building? What if we have a building that has garments in

13:51

one section of the building, and then screen

13:53

printing devices and embroidery machines in one part of

13:55

the building, and then we have a fulfillment side in

13:57

the same building? And that reduced

13:59

our timelines from six to eight weeks

14:01

to two to three weeks. And we

14:03

felt like, OK, there's no one else

14:05

doing this. Why is no one else doing this?

14:07

And that's become a fan of a fan's bread and

14:09

butter. Also is like very backwards in e -commerce

14:11

that a brand would have a massive amount of

14:13

sales in a very short amount of time

14:15

and then not sell anything for a while most

14:17

e -commerce brands were like trickling orders in we

14:19

run Facebook ads and then those Facebook ads bring

14:21

in one or two or three orders that

14:23

you need to have inventory for but creators don't

14:25

promote like that creators are like here's a

14:27

video it got a million views in 24 hours

14:30

and a ton of traffic and then we're not

14:32

going to sell anything else for the next

14:34

like one or two weeks or we have brand

14:36

deals on our next video. So we're not promoting

14:38

anything else. It's a very new

14:40

way of promotional cycles. And so

14:42

this fit very well with that. So I would

14:44

say if we did anything early, it was just

14:46

doing that. Yeah, really like vertically

14:48

integrating the business, thinking about

14:50

the back end, the logistics. And

14:53

then for Eric, I think that

14:55

idea has made his business so

14:57

meaningful and also like just so

14:59

fun for his community as well.

15:01

What made you think about a

15:03

sauce that makes everything taste like

15:05

pizza? We had someone actually

15:07

approach us, a really cool company called Kira

15:09

that does food products for creators. And

15:11

they had approached us, I thought that their

15:14

pitch was really smart. And the

15:16

way that they were positioning themselves in the creator

15:18

economy was really like thoughtful And they were

15:20

like you should do a hot sauce or have

15:22

you ever considered doing a hot sauce? And

15:24

I was like, I don't think hot sauce is

15:26

interesting But I was driving one day and

15:28

I had a conversation with Eric about businesses that

15:30

we could start together and I remember him

15:32

saying the only two things I really care about

15:34

in this world are making YouTube videos that

15:36

are great and I really like pizza Like those are

15:38

the two things that I really genuinely love a

15:40

lot. And so was like, okay, how do you

15:42

build a business around those? And we had creator

15:44

now that was built around him being a YouTube

15:46

creator and teaching other people how to become YouTube

15:48

creators and the education around that. And we thought

15:50

it would be fun to just do like a

15:52

fun drop around something that was pizza related. And

15:55

then I was just driving one day and I

15:57

was like, what if there was a sauce that

15:59

could make anything taste like pizza? And so I was

16:01

just a driving thought and I just thought it was kind

16:03

of dumb. But then I brought it up in the

16:05

next like team meeting. I was like, do you think that

16:07

this would work? Is their pizza flavored ketchup? And we

16:09

kind of just went down that rabbit hole and then the

16:11

name, Pizzify came up and we were like, oh, that's

16:13

so clever. Okay. You could see it like on broccoli. So

16:15

it was honestly just like being kids in a sandbox,

16:17

being like, oh, I wonder what this would look like. And

16:19

then just having fun with it and being like, what

16:22

if there was a pizza character? So I

16:24

think honestly, sometimes. fun ideas come from that too.

16:26

It's not taken too seriously. It was never meant to

16:28

be like a business that was going to go off

16:30

and be sold to Frida Lay's for a billion

16:32

dollars. It was like, can we create something fun

16:34

for the audience where they'll have fun with it

16:36

and people can make fun videos where they try

16:38

it on really like obscure objects. And

16:40

then the first drop went so well that we

16:42

were like, let's just keep it around and like put

16:44

it on Amazon and just like keep it as

16:46

an ongoing business. But honestly, it was never even meant

16:48

to be that. So sometimes I think entrepreneurship comes like

16:50

that as well. You'd never really mean for something

16:53

to turn into a business. Both of

16:55

those ideas are so meaningful to the

16:57

creators. And I think like a lot

16:59

of people ask you about, you know,

17:01

if you're a content creator at what

17:03

stage do you think about starting a

17:05

business? And like, when do you even

17:07

think about maybe getting management? Really

17:10

early on is when you should think about

17:12

what is the thing that you want to

17:14

sell to the audience that you're aggregating. There's

17:16

a whole line of like dominoes that happen

17:18

once you make that decision around thinking like,

17:20

okay, who am I targeting? What are their

17:22

problems and pain points? One of the things

17:24

we do with all the. creators that I've

17:26

worked with or consulted on projects is we

17:28

make their audience one person. Who is a

17:30

Yes Theory fan if they were one human

17:32

being? What would be their name? How old

17:34

are they? Describe what they do on a

17:36

day -to -day basis. That exercise is, I think,

17:38

really helpful in getting into the mind of

17:40

that person and the problems that they have

17:43

and the behaviors and the consumer patterns that

17:45

they exhibit. That would be what I would

17:47

say to do. In terms of a management

17:49

decision, I would say one of

17:51

the best decisions any creator could make is

17:54

really early on try to find

17:56

a friend that you think is

17:58

smart from a sales operational

18:00

business perspective that matches what you

18:02

are probably strong in from a

18:04

creative perspective in making videos and

18:06

ask if they are willing to

18:09

help you run the operations find

18:11

contractors to hire reach out to

18:13

brands like all the operational stuff

18:15

and before you ever go to

18:17

like a big management agency or

18:19

talent representation company. Ask that

18:21

friend if they'd be willing to do it for either

18:23

a percentage of the money that they bring in,

18:25

or a percentage of all the money that they end

18:28

up working on, or for a percentage of your

18:30

channel, for a percentage of this business that you're creating.

18:34

Startups often say, okay, I'm a technical founder. I'm

18:36

going to go partner with a non -technical founder

18:38

so that they can do the pitching and

18:40

the sales and the business development and we're going

18:42

to split equity in this thing. I think

18:44

it's only a matter of time until creators start

18:46

treating their businesses in the same way. I

18:48

think too many people have been a little bit

18:50

too precious with this being about me because

18:52

it's my face and it's my name on the

18:55

channel. When in reality, what often is being

18:57

created is a media company. At the early stages,

18:59

it doesn't feel like that because it's like

19:01

it could be as. as simple as like you

19:03

vlogging your life, but the operational side of

19:05

it and the business development side of that is

19:07

just as important. And I think bringing someone on

19:09

that feels like a co -founder that's willing to

19:11

like, you know, stay up late nights

19:13

and put in that work just as similarly

19:15

as you are is invaluable. And also I

19:17

think someone that cares of that level. is

19:20

light years more valuable than

19:22

someone who has relationships with

19:24

the brands or a network

19:26

of celebrity or traditional Hollywood relationships.

19:28

Someone can build that with the

19:30

right level of care and

19:32

attention and work ethic, I think.

19:35

Yeah, I like that because it's

19:37

putting a business lens on something

19:39

that's creative and oftentimes creators feel

19:41

like this is more of my art

19:43

versus looking at it as a

19:45

business. So that's quite important. So

19:48

you mentioned previously that you have a

19:50

company called Creator Now with Eric and

19:52

you've actually exited the company. How did

19:54

you know that this was like the

19:56

right pivot, right decision for you? Yeah,

19:58

first off, Creator Now is a online

20:00

learning community for creators who are

20:03

trying to start their channels and grow

20:05

and make money online. It

20:07

came from Eric and I just seeing that

20:09

what we thought was actually going to work

20:11

for creators that were looking to grow their

20:13

channel was not what was inside of courses.

20:15

It wasn't going to come from people watching

20:17

course materials, but rather from actually finding a

20:19

community of creators around them where they could

20:21

hold each other accountable to posting frequently and

20:23

then providing personalized feedback on their videos. And

20:25

then we ended up having a couple of

20:27

opportunities where companies came to us or one

20:29

particular opportunity came to us around like, Hey,

20:32

would you guys ever sell this? Like, are

20:34

you interested in selling this or would you

20:36

want to do this forever? And we had

20:38

never really asked that question before. We had

20:40

never really thought that. we

20:42

could do that this early on in the process.

20:44

That got us to kind of like go to our

20:46

investors and be like, what do you think of

20:48

this outcome? We had been running the company towards like

20:50

profitability and we didn't want to go into like

20:52

the venture game of continuing to raise. We thought, you

20:54

know, we raised our first round, we could probably

20:57

just go profitable from then. But then when that opportunity

20:59

came in, I think we all said, okay, well,

21:01

let's run an actual process and see what would happen.

21:03

And that was a lot of learning. It was

21:05

the first time I had ever done that. We built

21:07

a short list of about five companies that we

21:09

were like, we see a business case here for them.

21:11

And we think that this could be really valuable

21:13

for them. And it almost became like a sales process.

21:15

It was like, Hey, reach out to these five

21:18

companies. Here's what we think this could be valuable for

21:20

you for. And we also see the vision in

21:22

your company. We think that your company is awesome. And

21:24

we think we can enhance the potential that you

21:26

guys can reach as well. And I think that became

21:28

like, okay, rather than try to do this on

21:30

our own or continue this into profitability, what if we

21:32

can actually have a bigger outcome for everybody? And

21:35

that was a pretty eyeopening experience,

21:37

just going through those. hoops and

21:39

chatting with the different stakeholders that

21:41

are involved and eventually we reached

21:43

an agreement with vidIQ and it

21:45

was like a perfect instance of

21:47

vidIQ being this powerhouse company in

21:50

the creator economy that was really

21:52

good at all the things we

21:54

sucked at. They had an incredible

21:56

SaaS model, incredible products. world -class

21:58

engineers building like really frontier AI

22:00

stuff. And we were more like

22:02

branding, sales, marketing, like really cool

22:04

community, really cool educational resources. And so

22:06

we kind of looked at him, we're like, this

22:08

is like a two plus two equals five situation.

22:11

And that felt right. I think the meshing with the

22:13

founders of it, IQ felt right. And that was the

22:15

way that we kind of like filtered through it and

22:17

made a decision. Was there something surprising

22:19

you learned through that process that you kind

22:21

of didn't know before? When

22:23

you go to sell a business, every part

22:25

of IP ownership, every partnership agreement you have

22:27

needs to be coordinated, put into a folder,

22:29

marked and labeled. So there's a lot of

22:31

this like cleanup that happens. We had realized,

22:34

oh yeah, we had gotten that creator to

22:36

come in and do this workshop, but they

22:38

never signed an agreement for it. Okay, well

22:40

you can't sell that video now. You have

22:42

to go back to that creator and say,

22:44

remember that time you came in here and

22:46

did a workshop? We need you to sign

22:48

an agreement for it now. Or

22:50

else we can't sell this video as part of

22:52

our assets. So there was like those

22:54

things, all of our articles of incorporation.

22:56

Now I know from now on any business

22:58

that I start from day one, I'm

23:00

creating really clear folders and making sure everything

23:02

has really marked ownership because the process

23:04

and our business was like three, four years

23:06

old. So we didn't have that much

23:08

stuff. But I remember being like, whoa, if

23:10

you sell a company and it's been

23:12

like 10, 20 years, the amount of things

23:14

that you have to go retroactively pull

23:16

and update is probably a year's worth of

23:18

work. And from chatting with other founders

23:20

that have done that after 10, 15 years,

23:23

They're like, yeah, it is a whole year's worth

23:25

of work. That's why due diligence on some of

23:27

these deals takes that much time. So that was

23:29

really eye -opening. And to any entrepreneur that's watching out

23:31

there, please start on that process and make sure

23:33

that you have your stuff in an organized manner.

23:35

If your goal is to sell business. Also,

23:38

last thing I'll say on that

23:40

is that makes it more appealing for

23:42

the acquirer. Like if someone comes

23:44

and inquires about buying your business and

23:46

you have SOPs documenting processes and

23:48

you have a CRM of all the

23:50

like, creators that might host a

23:52

workshop for you and you have a

23:54

really clear process. It looks like

23:56

a machine. I think potential

23:58

buyers are a lot more interested in acquiring versus

24:00

like, oh, how do we do that? I don't

24:02

know. Steve knows how we do that. And it's

24:04

like, well, you can't buy Steve's knowledge. That

24:07

doesn't exist on paper. And

24:09

so I think that was really eye -opening on

24:11

things that I'll do differently on ventures moving

24:13

forward. The discipline for

24:15

admin is important for

24:17

sure. Yeah. I

24:19

mean, I am so in awe of all

24:21

the things you do because I think

24:24

you still look after your friends who are

24:26

YouTubers. You still have fan

24:28

of a fan and you're building something

24:30

new. You're creating content. I guess

24:32

what is your advice for time management

24:34

and also compartmentalizing all the different

24:36

businesses you have going on? I don't

24:38

know if my way of doing

24:40

things where I have what I call

24:43

a lot of like toys to

24:45

play with is the right angle for

24:47

everyone. I have reflected within

24:49

myself and realized that I like

24:51

having a lot of things that can

24:53

stimulate me intellectually and that I

24:55

also enjoy context switching. While I think

24:57

a lot of my coworkers and

24:59

colleagues hate context switching and when they

25:01

do it, it takes them a

25:04

bunch of steps back. I really enjoy

25:06

it and I think I thrive

25:08

on it. So for people that are

25:10

like that, while I don't think

25:12

that's everyone. Time blocking has

25:14

helped me a lot. So, you know, setting

25:16

really clear structures for how I want my

25:18

data look, what type of work I do

25:20

in the morning versus what type of work

25:22

I do at night, which usually for me

25:24

looks like doing deep work in the mornings

25:26

and trying to go directly from, you know,

25:28

my morning coffee into doing things that are

25:31

heads down, focused, uninterrupted, and trying to leave

25:33

as much as my calls for the afternoon

25:35

as possible. So I'm not checking my emails

25:37

or attending to other people's. you know, demands

25:39

of my time, first thing in the morning.

25:41

But again, I don't necessarily think that there's

25:43

a schedule for everybody. I think even my

25:45

own morning routine, I think I've gone through

25:47

like everything from wake up at five AM,

25:49

do a nice path through this, do that,

25:51

do that to what actually works for me.

25:53

There's no one size fits all structure calendar

25:55

or morning routine. It's, it's what are the

25:57

few things that are going to make you

25:59

the most productive. And that comes from trial

26:01

and error and seeing like, how did I

26:03

feel when I did this? Or is this

26:05

working for me? Is it not? And just

26:08

reflecting on that and writing about it. A

26:10

lot has changed since 2015. The

26:12

creator economy looks so different now. What

26:14

are you thinking about in terms of creators

26:16

and content and how they could stand out?

26:19

What I'd say is one of the biggest

26:21

changes that's happened in social media over the

26:23

last few years is when TikTok really had

26:25

its heyday in 2020, it introduced a whole

26:27

new algorithm to the world of social media

26:29

where rather than watching what we subscribe to,

26:31

we're watching what is fed to us through

26:33

an algorithm that knows us better than anyone.

26:37

We almost get indexed based on our

26:39

likes and interests and rather than following

26:41

a creator and subscribing to them what

26:43

you end up seeing is just like

26:45

a Aggregation of a bunch of things

26:47

that fit the topics that you're interested

26:49

in and it's good for us as

26:51

a consumer because we end up watching

26:54

a lot more of what we like

26:56

but really bad for building any sort

26:58

of long -term emotional connection with a particular

27:00

creator because especially for a creator that

27:02

wants to be a little bit more

27:04

broad and the type of content that

27:06

they make or the Topics that they

27:08

cover but also within short form rather

27:10

than watching one video where you spend

27:12

30 minutes with someone you're watching X

27:15

amount of short form videos that take

27:17

up that 30 minute span and If

27:19

you were to reflect and ask yourself

27:21

like do I remember a video that

27:23

I watched yesterday on my short form

27:25

like platform, the answer is probably not.

27:27

And if you do, it's probably one

27:29

or two, which means that the whole

27:31

form of consumption of content is changing.

27:33

And it's becoming something where we're just

27:36

consuming something that gives us this quick

27:38

hit of dopamine, but we're not really

27:40

building a relationship with that creator on

27:42

the other side as much. And so

27:44

things I think are working very differently

27:46

where, one, that means that attention is

27:48

becoming fragmented. We're not all watching the

27:50

same creators. I always have this thing

27:52

where I say, if you went to

27:54

a cafeteria high school table in the

27:56

1980s and you asked everybody, who's the

27:59

biggest superstar in the world right now?

28:01

Or who's your favorite celebrity? Most

28:03

of that table would have said the same names. They'd

28:05

all be like, oh, we love the Rolling Stones or

28:07

whatever. Like Nirvana is so cool. But now if you

28:09

go to a high school, cafeteria table,

28:11

I would imagine that everybody would say their

28:14

favorite celebrity is a different person. And it's probably

28:16

a creator that most people have never heard

28:18

about. So I think that just goes to show

28:20

that attention is fragmenting, I guess the quote

28:22

is like the riches are in the niches. Because

28:25

I think you can build a massive

28:27

audience and you can build a really

28:29

cult following in a particular niche. And

28:32

most of the world has no idea

28:34

who you are. And I think that's

28:36

kind of where the puck is moving

28:38

right now. in terms of entrepreneurship, do

28:41

you think your approach to entrepreneurship has

28:43

also changed throughout the years? It's definitely

28:45

changed. I am open -minded to how

28:47

much funding is needed to launch companies. You

28:50

know, like so many of the things

28:52

that were the prime of entrepreneurship came

28:54

around, like companies like Y Combinator giving

28:56

seed funding to startups so that they

28:58

can get off the ground. And nowadays,

29:00

you look and go, you

29:02

don't need a team of 10 engineers to

29:04

build a software product like you did 15

29:06

years ago. You barely even need to code

29:08

anymore. And like that is changing by the

29:11

day. Like you could use cursor and some

29:13

of these other AI tools and no code

29:15

your way to a prototype, which is even

29:17

what we did with Creator Now. And so

29:19

I think that removes the barrier to entry

29:21

for creators that are looking to get into

29:23

the space. I think it's never been a

29:25

better time to be an entrepreneur. And because

29:27

of all the like democratization of access, I

29:29

think that you can use these tools and

29:31

get a business to a place where With

29:33

a very lean team, you can have a

29:35

billion -dollar company. And more and more, I think

29:37

we're seeing these examples of 10, 20 -person

29:39

companies that are running multi -hundred million -dollar businesses.

29:41

And that's really special for what the future

29:44

of entrepreneurship holds. Such an exciting time. And

29:46

I'm excited to see how you're

29:48

going to explore that as well. Thank

29:50

you so much for being here,

29:52

Zach. Thank you for having me. That's

29:54

Zach Hanover, founder and CEO of

29:56

One Day Entertainment. Thanks for tuning in

29:58

to Shopify Masters. Join us every

30:01

Tuesday and Thursday for brand -new episodes.