0:05

Hi.

0:05

I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver

0:07

Hudson.

0:08

We wanted to do something that highlighted

0:10

our relationship.

0:11

And what it's like to be siblings. We

0:19

are a sibling, Railval No,

0:22

no, sibling. You

0:25

don't do that with your mouth.

0:31

Vely, that's

0:33

good.

0:38

I am so excited too because

0:41

of Adhd. I just want to say

0:43

one thing. I haven't had a

0:45

drink in a month. Yeah,

0:47

a month. I haven't had a drink in a month,

0:50

and I'm not a cigarette in a month.

0:52

I'm so proud of you.

0:53

It's a double edge though, because I'm going to be

0:56

sober on your birthday. I

0:59

don't care. Damn it, you're supposed

1:01

to.

1:04

That makes you. I'm going to toast to your sobriety.

1:08

But then I'm going to go to Cabo.

1:09

So just

1:12

just take it easy, just enjoy

1:14

it.

1:15

I just I feel fucking great. I mean, I'm

1:17

reading. We'll go over all that.

1:20

Yeah, let's do the guests on the We've.

1:23

Been waiting for this doctor ned

1:26

Hallowell, which I think is how we pronounce it,

1:28

hallowell Hallowell.

1:30

We'll find out.

1:32

I am incredibly exciting because

1:34

you talk about this a lot. We talk about

1:36

this a lot. I think ADHD

1:39

is like like like narcissism,

1:41

like gaslighting, like all these like you know, hashtag

1:44

things.

1:44

It is very very.

1:47

Overused to you

1:49

know, to diagnose people. But

1:52

I think we come from a long line of people

1:54

who have certain types of things

1:57

like dyslexia ADHD. And

2:02

I'm really excited to

2:05

going to lay it all out.

2:07

ADHD is hot right now? But is

2:09

it too hot? Is it? ADHD is

2:11

as saturated the market?

2:14

All right, let's invite him in.

2:17

Hello, how

2:20

are you?

2:21

I'm fine? Thanks, so are you?

2:23

We're good. We're very excited to have you on.

2:25

Well, I'm excited to be with you. You guys. You

2:28

know you guys. Are you guys run the world?

2:31

Well, one of us is Kate's.

2:37

Your Kate, and the fellow

2:39

with you is your husband.

2:41

That's my brother, Oliver.

2:44

Oliver.

2:46

Yes, but she did call me a Greek

2:49

god when we were young, so I did.

2:52

I felt like he needed that kind of

2:55

validation.

2:56

Well with you as his sister, no, wonder

2:59

Well.

2:59

Now so I someone

3:01

who understands me.

3:04

Oh my god, really you look

3:06

like you're similar ages, are you? Yeah?

3:09

I'm older? So thank you? Really?

3:11

Well, yeah, yeah, and you're

3:14

so you see see if I'm up on my People

3:16

magazine you're married to a baseball player.

3:19

No, no, but I did date

3:21

a baseball player once.

3:22

Okay, so that wasn't who No,

3:25

you did not make that.

3:26

That was really I think you're writing

3:28

People magazine from like two thousand

3:30

and thirteen, nine nine.

3:34

How did you get into this? It's really wonderful

3:37

of you to do it. I mean, you're trying

3:39

to give add the good name it deserves.

3:41

Or get get you go. Because

3:44

we.

3:46

Come from a family of uh

3:49

eighty people, Oliver

3:54

and I grew up. We grew up in you

3:57

know, a time same with my mom when people

4:00

weren't putting a name to what it

4:02

was that made certain things really difficult.

4:05

It was smart and stupid and try harder that's.

4:07

Right, or figure a way

4:09

around it, you know. And I think people.

4:11

Who suffered from ADHD

4:14

were sort of you know, you say, like had

4:17

had nothing to understand really what

4:19

it was except that, you know.

4:21

For I think for Oliver and I it wasn't.

4:23

About necessarily our intelligence

4:25

or even our ability to get it done. It was

4:27

the procrastination. It was

4:30

the last minute. And I can speak for Oliver

4:32

to you, we're very similar like this, like you

4:35

know, procrastinate till the last last

4:37

minute right before class, doing everything

4:39

you can to just get by. And

4:41

yet when you kind of took the

4:43

time to do the work and were able to

4:45

have some sort of structure, would would

4:48

have far more success. But

4:52

no tools to create structure.

4:54

On top of that, we didn't have the kind of family

4:56

because I think.

4:58

They all have the same thing.

5:00

It really understood structure

5:04

to help like help us

5:06

through whatever that was

5:08

that we were struggling with.

5:09

It was just like, you know, you're failing

5:11

this class. Figure it out.

5:13

And and when I had my

5:15

son writer, I realized

5:17

there was something going on when he was really young,

5:19

about three years old, about third grade,

5:22

and I had him assessed and

5:24

it was the first time I really understood ADHD

5:27

is like a real like actually understood

5:29

the Bell curve where you could have and

5:31

test like in the nineties of intelligence,

5:34

but your executive function could be you

5:36

know, under a seven percent.

5:37

And how that we've.

5:38

Learned the jargon, I'm impressed. That's good.

5:41

Yeah, well, I've had to help I've had

5:43

to try to help guide even

5:46

amidst my own struggles.

5:47

And then Oliver and I had this moment like about

5:50

a.

5:50

Year ago where he all,

5:52

he was like, I was I think I afraid?

5:54

Who said at first? But like we walk into bookstores, we

5:56

have the same experience.

5:57

We're like, I want to read every book, and

6:00

then you pick up a book and it just like

6:02

it takes like a year.

6:04

Yeah, and in this moment right now, but yes.

6:06

It just sits there and you try so hard.

6:08

I've figured out some tools. But anyway,

6:11

we struggle with this.

6:12

And so, by the way, I have not

6:14

been I don't know if you have, Kate, but I have not been clinically

6:17

diagnosed with anything at all.

6:20

Oh well, I could take care of that in about

6:22

ten minutes. But that, Oh that's another

6:24

thing. It has made people make it sound so

6:27

complicated and it really isn't. Have

6:30

you read any of my books, by the way.

6:32

No, no, but we because

6:34

we don't have the focused No.

6:36

No, I know, I know. But the last one is only

6:38

one hundred pages long.

6:39

Oh wow, I can do that.

6:41

The express reason of people with add

6:43

My first one, Driven

6:45

to Distraction, came out in nineteen ninety four.

6:48

It was too long. I mean, lots

6:50

of people read it, but or said they read it, but you

6:52

know it was just too long. But the recent

6:55

ADHD two point zero is only one hundred

6:57

pages and most of most people

6:59

can get through that, and it's a total

7:01

eye opener. I'm telling you

7:03

you will just jump for joy. It's

7:05

so not nearly as complicated

7:07

as people think it is, but it's much

7:10

richer and much more. It's

7:12

a way of being in the world. I don't even

7:14

think of it as a medical diagnosis. Certainly.

7:17

The term deficit disorder is it's just

7:19

wrong. We don't have

7:21

I have the condition along with thiss like sia.

7:24

I don't have a deficit of attention. I have an

7:26

abundance of attention. My challenge is

7:28

to control it. My mind is going

7:30

seventeen ways all at once, and

7:34

that's hard, you know. And as

7:36

you mentioned procrastination, the reason

7:39

we procrastinate is we

7:42

crave high stimulation. We

7:44

cannot do boredom. Boredom is our kryptonite.

7:47

We just can't do it. So one way

7:49

of creating high stimulation is to create

7:51

a crisis. Well, one way to create a crisis

7:54

is to procrastinate. So if you're

7:56

getting something done at the very last minute,

7:58

you've got a big bullets of adrene on and

8:00

adrenaline is uh nature's

8:03

own riddlin or adderall, you know, So

8:05

you're you're self medicating without meaning to self medication.

8:08

That's why that's why we also we love to get

8:10

into arguments and fights and difficult relationships

8:12

and and god, I

8:15

love It's also why we're so unbelievably

8:18

generous. We uh, we

8:21

we just we just give give give this

8:23

just our our our way of being. And it's

8:26

such an interesting condition. And and

8:29

but to get rid of the pathology, no

8:32

deficit disorder, I mean I

8:34

renamed it variable attention stimulus

8:36

trait and and the variability

8:38

is the key. We are never the same person

8:41

day to day, minute to minute even

8:43

and we can be explosive one second,

8:46

we're we're rapturously in love,

8:48

the next second, we're we're arguing

8:50

back and forth the next second.

8:53

But we do have a heart of

8:55

gold unless we've been traumatized

8:58

so much that that has been beaten out. This but

9:00

most of us were unbelievably naive. I

9:02

mean, I can't tell you how many women I asked

9:05

to marry me on the first date. It's like,

9:07

let's make it last, you know, And that's

9:11

so typical. You know, we're these babes in arms,

9:13

and you

9:16

know, God looks out for us because most

9:18

of us are pretty norn talented, which is which

9:20

is, which is good.

9:21

But when did you start this? Meaning

9:24

when you were young you

9:27

had eighty HD or eighty D or whatever the hell it was

9:29

called.

9:30

Oh yeah, well I'm seventy five years old.

9:32

Right, you're supposed to say you don't look it, right, but

9:34

you.

9:34

Don't look it. Yeah, you look you don't look

9:36

at day over fifty eight.

9:39

Thank you. But so when I was in

9:41

school, I went to school in Chatham

9:43

Down and Cape caught.

9:44

It and that was a very you know,

9:46

I got my ID stolen in Chatham.

9:49

Oh no kidding, I sure did. I had a fake

9:51

ID and I was going into.

9:52

That bar there. My wife is from there,

9:54

My my in laws are from Falmouth. I

9:56

go there every year. They're Bostonians,

9:58

my wife. So you know, Chatham a

10:02

good old wasp.

10:03

Oh yeah, like you know, you know what I call

10:05

the WASP triad, alcoholism,

10:09

mental illness, and politeness.

10:13

Exactly, that loss

10:17

and the Chatham we we just we called

10:20

it a drinking town with a fishing problem.

10:22

Yeah that's all.

10:25

So there, I am in first grade and I can't read, and

10:28

you're supposed to learn to read in first grade, and

10:31

they didn't. They didn't know from learning

10:33

differences. They were, like I said, smart and stupid

10:36

and try harder. And they

10:38

actually to get you to try harder,

10:40

they would spank you. They spank kids

10:42

in first grade and Chatham back then. But

10:45

I was so lucky. I had a teacher

10:47

by the name of missus Eldridge, and

10:49

she lives in my memory forever. She knew

10:51

there was more to kids having

10:54

trouble reading, them being stupid, and there

10:56

were better ways to help them than punish them and humiliate

10:58

them. So what was my treatment plan?

11:00

What was my IEP? During

11:03

reading period, We'd be sitting at these little roundtables

11:05

reading those exciting books he spot run

11:08

and she would just come over and sit down

11:10

next to me. I would feel so safe,

11:13

you know, none of the other kids would laugh at

11:15

me as I would stand more and stutter because I had the Mafia

11:17

sitting next to me. And that was

11:19

my IEP. Now, by the end

11:21

of the year, I was the worst

11:24

reader in the class, but I was the most enthusiastic

11:27

terrible reader. You know, I really wanted

11:29

to learn to read. And that's because the part

11:32

of my brain that has talent with words

11:34

was trying the best it could to inch its

11:36

way out because it hadn't

11:38

been scared away by the punishments

11:40

and the shame and the ridicule. It hadn't

11:43

yet reached its critical

11:46

mass, if you will. But at least

11:48

the door was still open because of that

11:50

wonderful lady's arm. Now, I

11:54

ended up majoring in English at Harvard, and

11:56

I've while doing pre med and I've

11:59

written twenty three book books.

12:00

And wow, it.

12:02

Doesn't look like I have a reading disability,

12:04

but I sure do. It takes me forever

12:08

to get through a book. My wife says, I don't know how

12:10

you know anything. It

12:12

takes me a lot. But it's it's

12:15

like like everything in this world, it's all

12:17

paradoxical. You know, you can do

12:19

this, you can't do that, You want to do this, you can do And

12:22

as long as people don't try to beat

12:24

us into submission, we change

12:26

the world. Whoever invented the wheel definitely

12:29

had add you know. And Hollywood

12:32

is add heaven as

12:35

Wall Street, you know, and wherever

12:39

you find high intensity, high

12:41

creativity, high emotional

12:44

emotional energy you'll find add.

12:47

Like I said, the thing we can't do is

12:49

lack of stimulation, boredom. We just

12:51

can't do it. Deaf, we won't do it. We

12:53

can't do it. It's like it's our kryptonite.

12:56

Yeah, it's so fucking true. I feel

12:58

that so much.

12:59

That's another thing we say a lot of fuckings. Yeah

13:03

the f bumps.

13:04

Really is that true?

13:05

Oh yeah, because we have all this frustration

13:09

that we need to bleed out of it, you know, in one

13:11

way is to throw in an F bomb.

13:13

Yeah.

13:22

Did you use your experience, you

13:24

know with that? Did that propel you into

13:27

your line of work?

13:28

Oh? Well yeah? So then I go. I had

13:30

this distinguished academic

13:32

career where nobody thought anything.

13:35

I knew I was a slow reader, but that hadn't been diagnosed

13:37

because I'd done so well. Nobody thought you, nothing can

13:39

be wrong with you. And the

13:42

same with the ADD. I mean, most people didn't even

13:44

think ADD was real back then. I mean I

13:47

graduated from Harvard in nineteen seventy

13:49

three, and most people

13:51

have never even heard of it. They'd heard of dyslexia,

13:53

but they didn't really know what that was either,

13:56

And so I just went ahead. You know, and it

14:00

was clear that I wanted to be a psychiatrist

14:02

because my father was crazy, you know, the lost

14:05

pride. My family

14:07

was a family of drugs and lunatics, and and

14:10

you know, they were all well

14:13

meaning though they were they were

14:15

nice, which matters,

14:17

you know. And and but

14:19

I was on a mission. And that's another thing. We're very

14:22

mission driven that the two of you,

14:24

you're passionate. You you, it's

14:27

what makes you so good. And so

14:29

my mission was to, uh, you

14:32

know, give the strange

14:34

mind a good name. I'm proud to be the

14:36

way I am. I don't feel the least bit

14:38

of shame. I think other people should be

14:40

envious. And the reason is they don't

14:42

have new ideas. Are what we

14:45

have in spades that other people

14:47

don't have is this huge imagination.

14:50

We we don't realize how big it is because

14:52

we've always had it. We don't realize

14:54

how dull most people are, you

14:56

know. And then and they just can't

14:59

conceive.

14:59

Of It's so funny say that, because I always

15:02

wonder like my brain is so on fire.

15:04

I mean, I love my brain, but it's I'm thinking

15:06

this in my bad mamma. I'm creating scenarios

15:08

that don't exist. I'm entering worlds

15:11

that I might have created just for and I'm like, what am I

15:13

doing right now? I'm playing out death

15:15

scenarios where my whole family is dead and I'm

15:17

alone.

15:18

I did that all the time. I'm just like,

15:20

I do the same thing.

15:21

What am I doing? You know?

15:25

Oh my god?

15:26

That?

15:26

And like every scenario, my

15:28

brain wanders. And sometimes I'll

15:30

sit in bed when I'm really quiet and I'll

15:33

think of this like insane like fairy

15:35

tale, like science

15:38

fiction world, and I'll be like a and

15:41

then it's gone.

15:43

I'm like, where did it go? I can't write

15:45

it down.

15:46

Don't worry, It'll come back. You couldn't

15:49

get rid of it if you wanted to.

15:50

I you know, I wonder my son has

15:52

this thing because he's he's you know, he

15:55

he has the type where like

15:58

it takes.

15:58

Him forever to wake up and morning and

16:00

I don't know, I don't know what that

16:02

is. I'm like, I wake up and I'm like,

16:05

I'm shot out of a cannon. Rider

16:07

has this thing where.

16:08

He Rider that's a great

16:10

name. How old is he now?

16:12

He's twenty one?

16:13

Oh boy? Oh my god?

16:14

Yeah, yeah, so he's

16:17

doing really great, but he's his

16:19

struggle is like to get up in the

16:21

morning.

16:22

It takes him forever.

16:23

Well, actually, that's pretty common. We have trouble

16:26

shutting it down at night. As

16:28

I like to say, I don't want to leave the party. Yeah,

16:31

when we finally get ourselves to shut

16:33

it down in the morning, it raising

16:35

it back up again. Is my

16:38

daughter, we had to buy her a flying

16:40

alarm clock so she hadn't

16:42

get out of the bed to turn it

16:44

off.

16:45

Oh that's so funny.

16:47

Yeah, and what

16:49

so that's basically because the brain's

16:52

finally resting.

16:54

Yeah, and it's just it's

16:57

just for whatever whatever makes

16:59

our brain unusual, it doesn't

17:02

like to be put down, and then it doesn't

17:04

like to be activated.

17:05

Are there different forms of adh Oh.

17:07

Yeah absolutely, I mean it's it's

17:10

certainly multi

17:13

varied.

17:14

No, no tools, I mean yeah,

17:16

yeah, yeah. Talk about that in just firs a second, because I want to get

17:19

into there's so many questions. But you know, you've got

17:21

first of all, ADHD seems hot right now. It's

17:23

like everyone is ADHD. My algorithm

17:25

is all ADHD. You know, from

17:28

sort of the disastrous you know, to

17:30

where their suicide to sort of

17:32

the you know, just this sort of scraping

17:34

of the surface of it. You know, So how

17:36

does the what's the spectrum?

17:38

Well, first of all, it's so misunderstood.

17:40

Like I said, I could and

17:42

if you read two point zero you'll see it's going

17:45

to Yeah, it's

17:47

it's a way of being in the world that is

17:49

fundamentally different from other people's

17:51

way of being in the world. But there are commonalities.

17:54

So I mean, well, no two adds

17:57

are the same. You take us as a

17:59

group, and you can see that there's

18:01

a lot in common. And where

18:04

does non add leave

18:06

off and add begin. It's sort

18:08

of like where does day

18:10

leave off and night start? You know,

18:13

there's a long period of dusk, and

18:16

so it is with this condition. You

18:19

can't say exactly where, but you sure

18:21

can say there's a difference between night and day.

18:23

You know, there's no doubt about that.

18:26

So people who like to say, well you can't

18:28

tell, well, that's true. You can't tell at what time

18:30

we go into night, but you can say

18:33

midnight is different from noon. And

18:35

that's the way it is. With this condition. We

18:38

were tremendously varied. We tend to be

18:40

very creative, passionate, generous.

18:43

Like I said, impulsive. But

18:45

by the way, the three so

18:47

called definings in the diagnostic

18:49

manual, you know, this condition is classified as

18:51

a mental illness, which is ridiculous.

18:54

We should all be so mentally ill anyway.

18:57

The three defining qualities

19:01

that make up the definition or distractability,

19:04

impulsivity, and hyperactivity, Well

19:07

take each one of those and turn it on its head

19:10

and you get a positive that you can't buy or

19:12

teach. The flip side of distractability.

19:15

Of distractability

19:17

is curiosity. You know, what's

19:19

that? What's that? What's that? Yeah, you're

19:22

being distracted, but you're being distracted because

19:24

you're so curious. You want to know what's that, what's

19:26

in there? What you're

19:28

constantly When I was a kid, they called me the question

19:30

box and they say, oh, here he comes. Better

19:33

to get out of the way. You know, he's going to wear you at

19:35

with all his questions, you know. And then

19:37

and then impulsivity. Oh that's so bad,

19:40

he's so impulsive. We'll give me asking

19:42

to marry me. On the first daid over and over again. What

19:45

is creativity? But impulsivity

19:47

gone right? You don't

19:49

plan to have a new idea. They pop spontaneously

19:53

impulsively. You know,

19:55

and and and you can't on demand

19:57

say okay, now be creative. I mean you as

19:59

an actor must feel that all the time

20:02

your best moments or your ad libs, or

20:04

your your you know, where did that come

20:06

from? You know? And and and

20:08

then the third one, hyperactivity you

20:11

get to be My age is called energy. I'm

20:13

really glad I've got this little turbo pack

20:16

on my back. So what

20:18

I'm trying to tell the world

20:20

is get it out of the Diagnostic

20:23

Manual of Madness the DSM, and

20:26

put it into the Diagnostic Manual

20:28

of Life like Shakespeare. I mean, you know, and

20:30

and uh, because that's where it

20:33

ought to be. It's it's a variant on the

20:35

theme of normal, but it's very

20:37

much not normal. I mean, you know, most

20:39

people don't have it and don't have

20:42

I tell I tell people I don't treat

20:44

uh, I don't treat disabilities. I help

20:46

people unwrap their gifts. Yeah,

20:49

this is a gift that does not unwrap itself.

20:52

And when you're talking to you, do

20:54

you usually would you work with an old and children

20:57

or I mean, do you work with people anymore?

20:59

Oh? Yes, Oh I love

21:01

it, and both children and adults

21:03

more adults now than kids, although

21:06

kids for sure. Most

21:08

people bring their kids to me to have me unbrainwash

21:11

them, you know, tell them that there's actually

21:13

a lot of good about this and you're not a las,

21:15

you know, and yeah, and they

21:18

just sit up in their chair. It's like

21:20

it's like sprinkling fairy dust. I mean, they just

21:22

suddenly you can see them. It's like those things

21:25

enemies. You put them in a bottle

21:28

of water and they just blossom. Well, that's that's

21:30

what these kids do when they hear the truth about

21:33

who they are.

21:33

So so there's two parsons. There's hearing the

21:35

truth, which is which makes your back go

21:38

up strater, Yeah, but then there's implementing

21:40

sort of the lessons or

21:43

the the tactics to bring out

21:45

the best in your add So

21:47

that's why you.

21:48

Need You need three things. You need knowledge,

21:50

which you get like we're doing now. You

21:53

need structure because we get

21:55

up time and go to bedtime a few you know creative

21:58

people who say I don't like structure, I

22:00

say, yes, you do. Look at shape. You look at Shakespeare

22:03

and Mozart. They worked within the tightest

22:05

most structured forms you could imagine, and

22:08

within that they created infinite

22:10

variety. So structure and

22:12

creativity go hand in hand without one. Without

22:15

structure, you have chaos. With

22:18

structure, you create beauty. And

22:20

then and so that you need information.

22:24

You need structure. Uh,

22:27

you need a coach, and that could be a

22:29

teacher, a parent, a therapist, a

22:31

doctor. Somebody really understands

22:34

what Missus Eldridge was for me. She didn't

22:36

know from add but she knew a talented

22:39

kid when she saw one, and and helped

22:41

draw that out. And then and then the

22:44

then the question of medication, which is so

22:46

misunderstood. Medication is

22:49

like eyeglasses. When it works, you

22:51

see clearly. When it doesn't work,

22:53

that doesn't work, and that's okay, you don't have to

22:55

have it. It's it's

22:58

not necessary. But when it works, it's a godsend.

23:00

It's an absolute godsend. People, you

23:03

know, people say, well, I'd rather try try

23:06

without medicine for a few years, and

23:08

I say to them, that's fine. I've written

23:10

books about how to unwrap the gift

23:12

of add without meds. But it's sort of

23:14

like saying, why don't we do a few years of squinting

23:17

before we try eyeglasses? You

23:19

know, why not try the proven remedy

23:21

that will make all the non medication remedies

23:24

that much easier to use. People

23:27

are amazingly neanderthal

23:31

or just skittish when it comes to medication,

23:33

and well they should be, because there's

23:35

a lot of bad meds out there.

23:36

You know, for sure, I get nervous

23:39

about me. I get nervous about like

23:41

kids on adderall and stuff like that.

23:43

I don't know why I should get nervous, but that's

23:46

why it's so important to see a good doctor. And

23:48

there aren't that many to find. You

23:50

know, a lot of people say they know about it and how to

23:52

treat it, but they really don't.

23:54

How many different add meds are there. I know there's

23:56

like vive ants and there's adderall.

23:58

It's probably fifteen, but the basic

24:01

two the core too. And this is very

24:03

reassuring news. Guess what

24:05

year simula was first used

24:07

to treat what we now call add Let's

24:10

make a wild guess.

24:12

Okay, I'm going to say eighteen

24:15

fifty, eighteen, eighteen

24:18

nineties.

24:18

I'm going to say you are

24:21

nineteen thirty nineteen thirty seven, right,

24:24

nineteen thirty seven, eighteenth century, But you're

24:26

right. I was.

24:27

I went to like I went to this like pharmacy

24:29

that was like in the wild West. That was like an

24:32

old mock up, and they had they had all kinds of

24:34

medications that we

24:36

had no idea.

24:37

Like was like, whoa, look at all this stuff. And that

24:39

was eighteen ninety six or.

24:41

Something in the nineteen thirty zero. Was that medication

24:43

actually targeting attention? No?

24:46

No, no, no, nobod you've heard of that? No,

24:48

no, no, it was that was what

24:51

it was targeting was the one symptom you can't

24:53

ignore, which is disruptive behavior.

24:56

God, it was boys who were throwing chairs

24:58

around.

24:58

And what was that medicaid amphetamine?

25:01

It was infinamine.

25:02

Adderall yeah, yeah, and it

25:05

worked wonders and the kids, and far

25:07

from not wanting to do well, they

25:10

loved it. They called it their arithmetic phill

25:12

till now they could finally memorize

25:15

these infernally boring math facts

25:17

that they'd literally been unable to

25:19

do before. They were so boring. You give them

25:22

some amfetamine and they're sitting down there, humming,

25:24

and they're happy because everyone

25:26

wants to do well, and they were doing well.

25:29

They'd gotten their eyeglasses.

25:30

And the medication when it works or it doesn't, work

25:32

like I guess, it just has to sort of coincide

25:35

with your chemistry and it's got to work correctly.

25:37

I took adderall one time at Coachella

25:40

where a friend's like, dude, take an adderall. It's fucking

25:42

brad, And I took it

25:44

and I hated it. I was like, I feel

25:46

like shit. My wife is takes Vivance

25:49

and it's a game changer.

25:51

She's on Vivans.

25:52

She gets Yeah, she gets everything fucking done. She

25:54

takes it as needed.

25:55

You've seen how dramatic it can be.

25:57

I have and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna take Avance.

26:00

I'm gonna make a I'm gonna fucking make a float plan.

26:03

I'm gonna take up. I'm gonna do my ship. And I took

26:05

a vive Vance and I'm like, oh man, I don't know good.

26:07

I don't like this.

26:08

Okay, what was it? What? Let me know? What was

26:10

the dose? Oh gosh, that

26:12

makes a big difference. Before you give up, right

26:15

before you give up on it, just check the dose,

26:18

because what these mens

26:20

do is very dose related.

26:22

Yeah. The lowest is like

26:24

ten milligrams five vans.

26:26

The lowest is I think they have a five now,

26:28

but yeah, you

26:30

know it. Basically it's an increments of

26:32

ten milligrams up to around seventy.

26:34

Okay, but there's no such thing.

26:36

By the way, the pharmacists don't understand

26:38

this. But there's no number diagnosis

26:41

that is by definition too high. You

26:43

assess whether the

26:45

dose is too high or too low by what it does to

26:47

you. If it makes you wacky,

26:50

then the dose is too high. If it does

26:52

nothing, then the dose is too low. And

26:55

again we need a sudden attack

26:57

of common sense to you know, for

27:00

this all to be resolved.

27:02

Well, the timing of this is interesting

27:04

because I have never gone to a doctor. I've been in

27:06

therapy all my life, but I've never been clinically.

27:09

Diagoned over what Kate did to you as a little

27:11

boy.

27:11

Well to get over what I did to her the

27:14

other way around. But

27:17

I've but you know, I've called

27:19

a few friends and they've said, oh, you need to see

27:21

this person, and I got in touch with someone and it was this

27:24

long, crazy testing in this

27:26

I'm like, I don't want to.

27:27

Do all this and you shouldn't have to.

27:30

So then how is one sort of quickly

27:32

diagnosed? Like, how do we know

27:34

whether we have this, you

27:37

know, gift. Let's just reframe

27:39

it, Yeah, like.

27:40

How can you distinguish between.

27:42

Someone who knows it as well as I do? And

27:46

by the way, don't tell people that I said I can diagnose

27:48

you in a half an hour because they'll think I'm a

27:51

crack. But I absolutely

27:53

can. I mean, I can honestly diagnose

27:55

someone the minute they walk in the room. I

27:57

can feel it

28:00

emanates alf of them. I can feel a

28:02

fertile imagination when I'm with one.

28:04

So are we? Are we all crazy?

28:06

Am I? Am I officially diagnosed?

28:09

Yes?

28:09

Yes, West?

28:11

Can I ask.

28:13

You about Can I ask out the correlations

28:15

with.

28:15

ADHD or ADD and anxiety

28:18

and depression?

28:19

Yes?

28:19

Oh yes, let me tell you. I mean again, it's

28:21

it's obvious and very straightforward.

28:24

And sorry interrupts you, but I suffer. I'm

28:26

on twenty milligrams of lexipro because anxiety

28:29

has been a at an issue in

28:31

my life.

28:32

And I think we should realise

28:34

that. Do you still have libido?

28:36

By the way, too much? Babe?

28:41

The problem with SSRIs is

28:44

they diminished libido and

28:46

they're cognitively dulling. You lose a few IQ

28:48

points and I don't think that's worth it

28:51

unless you really needed So.

28:52

No, I was real quick. Sorry, I tried to wean

28:54

off of it, and I did it correctly,

28:57

and I was so fucked up. I had

28:59

to back on because.

29:01

You need it. So you're one of the people who needs

29:03

it, and it's a good thing we have. It's just widely

29:06

overused. But the

29:08

relationship between the

29:10

relationship between the two is

29:13

as follows. If you can't focus

29:15

and get organized and do what Kate earlier

29:17

called correctly executive function, you

29:20

can't do that. It's such a fundamental part of

29:22

everyday life. You're going to be anxious. What

29:25

am I going to miss? What am I going to overlook? Who's

29:27

going to call me out next? What am I going to get in trouble

29:29

for? And you're you're walking around like you

29:31

know, oh my lord.

29:33

You're like in a constant state of failure,

29:35

like you're just failing.

29:36

Exactly, exactly exactly,

29:39

and that feels like shit. So not

29:41

only are you anxious,

29:43

but you're in a low grade depression. It's not

29:45

really depression as it is anxious apprehension

29:48

that you know you're not feeling good about

29:50

yourself or about your life. Well, that's going to look

29:52

like depression. So you get diagnosed

29:55

with these two artifacts caused

29:58

by the untreated add of

30:00

anxiety and depression, and what happens

30:03

almost always, particularly with adult

30:05

women, you get put on an SSRI

30:08

to treat the side

30:10

to treat the effect of the untreated ad D.

30:12

To treat the anxiety and depression,

30:14

you get put on an SSRI that has

30:16

all kinds of side effects that are undesirable.

30:19

So if instead you treated the add

30:21

first, then you'd feel

30:24

more focused, so you wouldn't be so anxious, and

30:26

your your achievement would go up so you wouldn't

30:28

feel so depressed.

30:39

I think, Oliver, this is a really interesting

30:41

thing.

30:43

I am like, this is my favorite

30:45

podcast ever. And by the way, I

30:47

want to be friends. Like I just want to

30:49

put that out there. I don't

30:51

know where you live.

30:52

Where live just outside of Boston.

30:55

Okay, good, I'm there. I'm there for three weeks during

30:57

the summer. Come hang out, like, oh you

30:59

can, I'd.

31:01

Be the toast of the neighborhood. You know who he knows?

31:03

Wow?

31:04

I really, I really I really

31:06

want Like, how can a parent

31:09

okay who can't afford to see

31:11

have their child see somebody but notices

31:14

this and their child, like.

31:15

How how do they support their

31:18

how do they support their child? Like,

31:20

what's the best way to reach it?

31:21

Because I know how hard I know how hard

31:23

it is, and uh,

31:27

you know, to to even just

31:29

to even just to know that you're what

31:31

what it is that's going on with your kid? Like,

31:35

how can like someone listening,

31:37

like what can they do that can make just

31:40

just like one thing or something simple that they

31:43

can clue into for their kids.

31:45

Well, knowledge

31:48

is incredibly powerful. And if

31:50

they would read two point zero the most

31:52

Reasons the shortest, I

31:54

mean people really, they start crying

31:56

ten pages into the book. Chapter

31:59

one lays out what it is. Isn't holy shit?

32:01

You know why didn't someone tell me this?

32:03

And it saves marriages, it saves childhoods,

32:06

it saves jobs, it saves careers.

32:08

I mean people get fired right and the left because

32:10

of the impulsivity that comes with add

32:13

or they get kicked out of school and they get

32:15

chalked up as bad seed

32:17

or you know, the devil's animo. All

32:20

it is is imagination run wild. The

32:22

analogy I give kids that say, it's like you've got

32:24

a Ferrari engine for a brain. You've

32:27

got this incredibly powerful

32:29

race car for a brain. The problem

32:31

is you have bicycle brakes. Well,

32:34

I'm a break specialist. I'll help you strengthen

32:36

your breaks so you won't drive through stops

32:38

on so you won't spin out on curbs, so you'll

32:41

win the races. You're a champion in the making,

32:43

but you got to strengthen those breaks first.

32:46

Olie, is this making you emotional a

32:49

little?

32:49

Yeah? I mean it's

32:51

just so spot on, like I just

32:54

relate to it entirely, and just

32:56

you know, we were talking about before you came on. But you

32:59

know, I haven't had a drink in a month. I

33:01

haven't had a cigarette in a month, and for me, that's big.

33:03

I might be a lower case a

33:05

alcoholic. I definitely have,

33:08

you know, impulsivity issues,

33:10

addiction sort of, it's I can feel

33:12

that it's a part of you

33:16

know, So actually, Kate asking

33:18

that, you know, I've never been

33:20

more clear. I feel like I'm on my

33:22

brain is on fire now with sort of this, the

33:25

fog has lifted and.

33:26

Your best work is ahead of you. Are you an actor as

33:28

well?

33:29

Or yeah? Yeah, yeah, so this is this is part

33:31

of I have so many questions. But you

33:33

know, for me personally, I

33:35

we have. We have an extremely talented

33:37

family, and everyone is in this business.

33:40

Yeah I am the most talented,

33:43

but I

33:46

am I I'm the most talented

33:49

I could be. I could win in a world wards

33:51

as actor, I could directing by.

33:53

The most modest on top of them.

33:55

Yeah.

33:58

Yeah, but if there's so much inside

34:00

of me that I want to get

34:02

out, but it's so difficult because I get

34:05

overwhelmed and quit. You

34:07

know, I don't know how to access

34:11

it, and it's frustrating because I know how

34:13

great I am.

34:14

Well, wait, you guys,

34:17

I have to I have to interrupt this because

34:19

my son just facetimed me and I said, honey,

34:21

I'm on a podcast.

34:23

Guys, amazing.

34:23

We're talking with an ADHD expert. And he

34:25

writes, I hope he's making me sound like the

34:28

genius I am.

34:33

Right now, Well,

34:36

writer Rider, her son

34:38

is a lot like me, a lot

34:40

like.

34:41

I think the most like you.

34:43

Raised them right. Sadly, they're

34:45

like two percent, you know, ninety

34:47

eight percent get told from day one that they're

34:50

bad boys, bad girls there. They

34:52

know fluts, their hyper sexual

34:54

their addicts there.

34:55

I'll never forget when my son came

34:58

home in sixth grade and

35:00

and writer, funny, popular,

35:03

cool, makes everybody

35:06

laugh, Like, and he just came home weeping.

35:09

I'm so stupid. I can't.

35:11

I'm so dumb.

35:13

I'm and I and and I was like, what

35:17

a terrible Like you

35:19

know when when it's your child and you know how brilliant

35:21

they are, it's like, thank God, I'm

35:24

not that kind of parent that needs

35:26

excellence in in

35:28

in academics.

35:30

She's

35:32

like, I know, I recognize.

35:33

The gift without without decorating

35:36

it with grades, And.

35:38

Let me can I can I just get back to this impulsivity

35:40

thing again, because I because

35:43

it can be dangerous, you know, with gambling

35:45

or drugs or alcohol or sex

35:48

or all of that. Right, Oh, all of it.

35:50

Absolutely, I've done all of those, you know.

35:51

Right, So how how do you come out of

35:54

that? You know what I'm saying, Like, at what

35:56

point are you moving into real addiction

35:59

stuff in one point? And what point is it sort of

36:01

your ADHD and impulsivity taking over?

36:03

Oh that's like the thing where does day

36:05

leave off the night begin? And one

36:09

of the best rules of life I ever

36:12

learned was from my first

36:14

year of psychiatric training. Tom

36:17

Gutal was his name, and he said never

36:19

worry alone,

36:21

and that is so profound. Well, just

36:25

never worry alone. When you

36:27

worry alone, you get into worst trouble.

36:30

That's when your worst introspections

36:33

happen, when your worst fears get

36:35

confirmed, when you hate yourself, when

36:37

you behave impulsively, you get drunk, or

36:39

attempts suicide or whatever it might happen to

36:41

be or you

36:43

know. And so if you if you have

36:46

people, reliable, others, friends,

36:49

whatever, that you and that you're

36:52

honest enough to tell them the truth.

36:54

You know, some of our stuff is not exactly

36:57

we want everyone to know about it. But if

37:01

you're brave enough, and that's

37:03

the solution, is to not worry alone.

37:05

I love that I might get that tattooed on me.

37:07

That's just the best.

37:09

Well, it's interesting because my kids, you

37:11

know, wild are my oldest.

37:13

I'm like, what a good

37:15

name for someone with add His name is Wilder.

37:17

His name is Wilder.

37:18

Yeah, that's great.

37:19

And I'm like, do you think you have like a

37:21

d D? And he's like, oh, yeah, of

37:23

course, he goes there's no

37:25

doubt, of course. But he's like but he's

37:27

just like kind of oh, he's cool with it. He's

37:30

like I don't. Yeah, of course the.

37:31

Guy he should be. I mean I brag about it.

37:33

I tell people, yeah, and even Body my

37:35

middle kids. My middle boy's name is body.

37:37

And Body or Brody Body.

37:39

Body bo d H. I like like Bodystockpham

37:42

and and you know, his brain is on fire

37:44

and he's crazy and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, I'm nuts.

37:47

I know they're all crazy,

37:49

but there seems to be an acceptance of their insanity,

37:52

you know.

37:52

And thank God, thank God, because

37:54

we live in you know, there's

37:57

so many narrow minded people out there and they

37:59

do so much damage. But you

38:02

know, you know, I haven't believe

38:04

in God, and people pin me down about

38:06

that, and how can't you believe in God? It's a fairytale.

38:08

I say, well, you believe in love, don't you? And

38:10

most people say yeah. I say, well,

38:13

God is love. It's just that simple, you

38:15

know.

38:15

Now, I'm with you. I'm not. I don't

38:17

know. But is God a person in the sky.

38:20

No, it's a spirit. It's a force. It's an invisible

38:22

force, right, but like

38:24

gravity is an invisible force.

38:38

I still want to understand something

38:40

that a parent can do to help

38:42

their child, Like what is

38:44

something like tangible something

38:46

they could start.

38:49

Kate just

38:51

what I've been saying. Teach them

38:53

about their brain, teach them read

38:55

read. I wrote a shorter book

38:58

recently. It's called adhd Explain and

39:00

and it's got illustrations, and I mean, it's

39:02

even shorter, it's even easier to read. But it's

39:04

not watered down. It's not like a children's book.

39:08

It is in the format but people.

39:10

And it's wonderful. So

39:12

you can read that with them and then and then

39:14

it can't

39:17

be done in one sitting. It's it's over

39:19

the course of a childhood, of a lifetime and

39:22

and and it's a matter of delving. I

39:24

still discovered parts of myself I didn't

39:26

know. I mean, and it's a wonderful exploration

39:28

to finding out, you know. And it's

39:30

plus and minus pain and

39:32

pleasure. I

39:35

too had a major drinking. I wasn't

39:37

alcoholic, but I looked forward to my drinks

39:39

every day. And then about

39:41

five years ago, without planning

39:44

or even wanting to, I just stopped. I

39:47

had no idea. It was the grace of God because

39:49

I was I was trying to start

39:51

a new book and the title of it is You're better than

39:53

you think you are. And I think

39:55

my brain knew that I do better off

39:58

alcohol than So.

40:00

How much would you drink when you came

40:02

home on.

40:02

Your average day? I mean more

40:05

than two beers I'll say that. You

40:07

know, I'd go out for dinner and I'd

40:09

have two or three martinis yeah, and

40:11

two or three glasses of wine.

40:12

Yeah.

40:13

And before

40:15

I got married, well that was thirty five years ago. But

40:17

even when I was dating Soup, my idea of heaven

40:20

was to go out with a beautiful

40:22

woman and who

40:24

was intelligent, and we would

40:27

have amazing conversation over several

40:29

martinis and several cigarettes, and

40:32

we'd settle all the issues of the world.

40:34

We'd harmal

40:37

recreation.

40:38

I mean, that was that was heaven

40:40

to me, And even as.

40:41

I describe it now, it sounds pretty good. You know.

40:43

Yeah, God,

40:46

I'm definitely visiting you this summer.

40:48

Yeah, no, I mean what is that

40:50

before we I have one other question about

40:53

like the hyper focused add like

40:55

the ones that go into hyper focus

40:57

where they can go, well,

41:00

we all do.

41:00

I mean, That's why I can write so many books. I mean, but

41:03

when we are creatively

41:05

engaged, we are rock.

41:08

We are laser being focused. The

41:10

building could be burning down and we are not aware

41:12

we are so there. You're probably

41:15

like that when you're acting, both of you. I mean, when

41:17

you're doing something creative that you

41:19

want to be doing, it can be

41:21

incredibly difficult, like, but you

41:23

guys do it's very very you know what I do

41:25

writing, very difficult disciplines.

41:29

But we love it and so we focus

41:31

on it, and we also hate it because it's never

41:33

I don't know about you, but it's never as good as I want

41:35

it to be. And so it's like golf,

41:38

and you're never as good as you want it to be. But

41:40

why do I play it? Because nothing's better?

41:42

How about that? Masters? By the way, Oh,

41:47

by the way, I'm gonna scratch golfer. I used

41:49

to be a plus two.

41:49

Are you really? I'm inssed?

41:53

I was.

41:53

My eighty D sort of focused me

41:55

on that when I was in my late twenties and thirties.

41:58

Eighty eight. Golf is a great add sport

42:00

because you get another chance every time. Yeah,

42:03

you know, I had bet on malcol Roy and

42:05

I thought I won that I thought I lost.

42:08

God what it was so great?

42:10

It was so much fun to watch.

42:12

You're a golf fan.

42:14

You know what's funny? I love I

42:17

got. I got the bug about a year

42:19

ago.

42:20

Now I'm really loving playing golf, and

42:22

now I love watching I've never

42:25

enjoyed it, and now I like put on

42:27

even like you know the Ladies

42:30

PGA, and I watch it like,

42:32

oh.

42:33

No, it's incredible

42:36

control over all these moving

42:38

parts. A beautiful

42:40

golf swing is beautiful.

42:41

And Rory's is my favorite golf swing ever.

42:44

Ollie, Ollie, the Greek god

42:46

that he is, has

42:49

an amazing golf swing.

42:51

Who's Allie? Is he?

42:53

Oliver is the person that you're talk Ollie?

42:56

Oliver my brother? Yeah,

42:58

he's Oliver.

42:59

Oh my god.

43:00

Oh yeah, yeah, we got to work

43:02

on that add But.

43:03

It's really touching and obvious

43:06

how much you love each other. That's it's really

43:08

yeah.

43:08

Yeah. Yeah.

43:11

Do you have other siblings?

43:12

No, we have We have siblings. We

43:14

have three, so it's four of us that

43:16

all grew up together. So me and

43:18

three brothers including Allie and then Oliver

43:20

and I all together, we

43:23

have six siblings.

43:24

Oh we halves, there's halves in there. Yeah.

43:27

And are your are your parents creatives

43:29

too?

43:30

Yeah?

43:30

Every single one?

43:31

Yeah, that's wonderful. What and you grew up

43:33

in California?

43:35

Yeah, in Colorado.

43:37

You're both in your forties.

43:39

I'm forty eight. Yeah.

43:41

Wow, you have to write this

43:43

at some point, you know, I.

43:45

Know we should.

43:47

Well, that's what's fun about this podcast is

43:49

being able to sort of connect in a different

43:51

way, you know, Katie

43:53

and I being able to have these conversations with you

43:55

and other people, and you learn about

43:58

yourself, you know, as we go through this

44:00

process of the podcast, this has

44:02

been amazing. I cannot wait to read your book,

44:04

that hundred pager and I feel like

44:06

as a d as add gets more

44:08

prominent, your books are going to get shorter and shorter,

44:11

the point where it's like you're going to open up the book and

44:13

it's like you if you've bought this book,

44:15

you have it. That's it.

44:23

But before we leave, I know we got to go, but I want to ask

44:25

a real quick question about you know, how

44:27

you've seen this, you know, this

44:30

gift grow and has it gotten

44:32

has there been more? And how much social

44:34

media? How much technology is

44:37

influencing this or if it is at

44:39

all?

44:40

Oh my god, it is,

44:42

like I mean, I

44:44

it's an answer to my prayers when I published

44:47

Driven Distraction. I have a

44:49

very good friend who's a major player

44:51

in the in the publication world, and he said, ned,

44:54

don't get your hopes up. This book is not going to

44:56

change your life. And second,

44:59

I don't like your time. It sounds like a book about

45:01

cars, and

45:03

all of those statements have proven to be very wrong.

45:07

It's not a book about cars. And it dramatically

45:10

changed my life, but more important, changed the lives

45:12

of millions of people. It's sold two million copies

45:14

and still selling strong.

45:17

And then the other books I've written,

45:19

they're not all about add book about worry, a book

45:21

about raising children that's my favorite book,

45:24

and a book

45:26

about connection, a

45:28

book about my own crazy family. The title

45:30

is because I came from a crazy family, And

45:33

that was my answer. By the way, people would say, why did you become

45:35

a psychiatrist? Because I come from a crazy

45:38

family. It's

45:42

I am so blessed

45:45

and relieved and great. I mean the fact that I'm talking

45:48

to you, that means it's going to move

45:50

even more and the

45:53

chance for truth and knowledge

45:55

to do good in this world. It's just

45:57

wonderful when you see it, because so often

46:00

the opposite, you know, held

46:02

sway, But this

46:05

is this is a good news diagnosis. Unlike

46:08

most medical diagnosis I can say to my

46:10

patients for sure, you

46:12

will get better. How

46:14

much better I can't tell you, but I

46:17

can promise you you will your

46:19

life will improve and and and that's

46:21

pretty wonderful feeling.

46:22

You know, have you seen a spike, a

46:25

growth, a growth just

46:28

TikTok?

46:29

Yeah? You know? Have you seen me on TikTok?

46:31

No?

46:32

I haven't. But I'm wondering if, like you think that

46:34

tick because everyone says it does. But from

46:36

a doctor standpoint, does TikTok fuck

46:38

you up?

46:39

No? What? No? Yes,

46:42

yes, and no. Social

46:45

media can fuck you up. It's

46:48

and it's not just the

46:50

content of the social media. It's what you're

46:52

not doing when you're on social

46:54

media. You're not playing baseball, you're not

46:56

having sex, you're not writing

46:59

an you're not you

47:02

know, daydreaming lying on your back

47:04

in the grass and daydreaming. You're you're

47:06

not doing all the things that your mind is meant

47:08

to do. And watching TikTok

47:10

is pretty low on the on the on the

47:14

on the table of what is good for

47:16

you to do. And I say that as someone

47:18

who I've made like fifty TikTok

47:21

things about add but some

47:23

of them are just so inane and then people really

47:26

do get addicted. They really

47:28

do. They if you define addiction

47:30

as craving and then becoming

47:33

really violent when you don't

47:35

get it, Yeah, TikTok

47:37

addictions, social media addiction is very real.

47:40

But don't worry about that. Just channel

47:43

your kids and other kids into the garden

47:46

of delights that that life offers

47:48

in a positive and constructive way. You

47:50

guys are you guys are the

47:52

fairy godmothers of this world. People

47:54

look up to you and follow you, and

47:57

you happened. I can tell just in talking to you. Happen

47:59

to be good through and through. Uh,

48:02

You're You're honest, you're playful, you're fun,

48:04

you're creative. You happen to

48:06

be very attractive, which never hurts,

48:08

and you know it's

48:11

And you're doing your like this. You don't

48:13

need to do this podcast, You're you're doing it because

48:15

you want to do something useful,

48:17

do something creative, and you are. Yeah,

48:21

I'm not buttering you up. I'm just saying what I'm feeling.

48:23

And that that made

48:25

me feel so good.

48:28

Well, I'm one going to buy your

48:30

book right now that I know me too.

48:33

We've suddenly we've made new friends.

48:35

When did your book two point zero come out

48:38

two years ago, and do.

48:40

You have another one coming out soon?

48:41

Well? As soon as some I mean,

48:43

I keep polishing, polishing, polishing.

48:46

I've never put so much time into a book

48:48

ever. I've been working on it for

48:50

a couple of years. And like I said, the

48:52

title is You're better than You Think you are? And

48:55

I just I see this as a as a

48:57

as a problem bigger than any

49:00

by far. There are just so many

49:03

people out there who sell themselves short.

49:05

Yeah, you know, and they

49:07

and they give up too easily because they

49:10

just don't have that faith in themselves.

49:12

And it almost always comes back to

49:14

they don't have the right people encouraging

49:17

them. It is just very hard

49:19

to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. And

49:22

they have the talent, they have the goodness,

49:25

they have the motivation, and and

49:27

they they just in

49:29

fact, the book, the first line of the book

49:32

is how do you convince a

49:34

person that it's Sunday when

49:36

it is in fact Sunday.

49:44

I love that,

49:47

And then that's that's the conundrum

49:49

that so many people live with.

49:51

It. Yeah, well, you two are very special

49:53

and I thank you for.

49:54

Thank you for I appreciation. This

49:56

is really fun.

49:57

Thank you so much. Have the best day and

50:00

we'll have you on again.

50:01

Keep in touch, keep this going.

50:03

Take care.

50:04

Yeah all right, thanks doctor, But

50:08

how great?

50:09

I love him. I want to be his friend. I want

50:11

him to mentor me. I wanted to take me to

50:13

the Promised Land whatever that is.

50:15

I feel inspired me

50:17

too.

50:17

I'm gonna go like direct something

50:19

and win on a war.

50:22

But you know what you should say is that what

50:24

you want to do is get off your is

50:27

reap for me. Yeah,

50:29

like what an amazing thing to be

50:32

like. Oh wait, I've

50:34

been treating my symptom, not the

50:36

actual problem.

50:38

Yeah, so maybe you need

50:40

to get off. Try to get off of it.

50:42

Not wait till after the summer.

50:46

Don't ruin our summer.

50:48

Let's let's not get weird. Increase.

50:52

Yeah, maybe I'll start in like you know, when we get

50:54

home, like in August.

50:55

Yeah, and like wean off and

50:58

then and then try

51:00

yeah, try something else as

51:03

long as you feel good about

51:05

it.

51:06

You know. Wow, that was cool.

51:08

I know I hear way for a rider to hear this one. Yeah,

51:10

anyway, I loved it. I love you.

51:12

I loved it.