0:00

guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. I

0:02

am super excited about this episode. It's

0:04

very very special because we're finally going

0:06

to be talking about everything that has to

0:08

do with men and what men care about

0:10

when it comes to the wellness industries,

0:12

the grooming industries, all of that stuff. And

0:14

we have such an expert with us

0:16

today. He has been a grooming

0:18

journalist since 2013. He became GQ's contracted

0:21

grooming writer in 2016.

0:23

He's written for just about

0:25

every men's publication out there. And now

0:27

he's finally doing his own and launching

0:29

his own space where he's going to

0:31

be taking this even further, which is

0:33

called Blueprint. And so I would love

0:35

to introduce you guys to Adam Hurley.

0:37

Welcome, Adam. I'm so honored to host you. Oh,

0:40

Ekta, thank you so much. I'm equally honored

0:42

to be here. It's a favorite podcast of mine,

0:44

so I'm having a pinch me moment. Oh,

0:47

thank you so much. That makes me very happy

0:49

to hear that. I want to learn all about

0:51

you, though, Adam. I mean, this is such a

0:53

cool move and such a cool new chapter for

0:55

you. I mean, I'd love to learn about your

0:57

journalism experience, your journey, right? Because you have so

0:59

much experience in writing about this, and where did

1:01

it all begin for you that you wanted to

1:03

go into journalism? Like, where did that start?

1:05

Well, I was, you know, the goody two

1:07

shoes in high school and I was editor

1:09

of the school newspaper then and we had,

1:11

I guess it was one of the top

1:13

newspapers in the country. We got to speak

1:15

at the national conventions and all that. So

1:17

I was the editor in chief of

1:19

that newspaper. And then I ended

1:21

up going into journalism in college, although

1:24

I shifted over to public relations.

1:26

And so I got that degree and I

1:29

had no intention of actually using it to

1:31

be completely honest. I also studied film and

1:33

I wanted to work in I graduated 2008,

1:35

so I just took a bunch of different

1:37

jobs, odd jobs here and there

1:39

in production, in film festivals and

1:41

talent management. And the road eventually just

1:43

led me back to journalism because

1:45

of a job at... Birch box in

1:48

2013. They needed a men's grooming journalist

1:50

and I had all this video

1:52

production experience and this web editing experience

1:54

from the random jobs. And suddenly

1:56

I just started using my journalism degree

1:58

for a tech company. And

2:00

very quickly I also learned about men's

2:02

grooming along the way. So it really just

2:04

found I found my way back to

2:06

it. And it's it's felt very much like

2:08

a home for me ever since that

2:10

that first day of the job. So I've

2:12

stuck with it ever since. Wow,

2:15

that's pretty cool. I mean, I love when things happen

2:17

like that, you know, it's like true destiny. When

2:20

things just fall together, yeah. I mean,

2:22

I'd love to ask you though,

2:24

because you've covered just about every major

2:26

men's publication. What's the biggest shift

2:28

you've seen in men's grooming journalism over

2:30

the past decade? Well, I really started,

2:32

I would say, when print was dying

2:34

out. I guess it's been dying out

2:36

for a long time, but I was

2:38

never really in the print side of

2:40

things. I really hit hard on the

2:42

digital side and it benefited me when

2:45

I started covering men's grooming because I

2:47

was not precious about the print aspect

2:49

of things and I was really good

2:51

at the fast -paced, you know, just let's

2:53

write this and get it online. And

2:55

so the biggest change I think

2:57

since, since that. is in the last

2:59

couple of years this hard

3:01

shift towards the search

3:04

engine. And the search engine

3:06

especially in the last couple of

3:08

years has really blurred the lines

3:10

between editorial and advertising because there's

3:12

such a heavy focus on the

3:14

traffic that comes from those searchable

3:16

subjects that a lot of the

3:18

revenue comes in from the pieces

3:20

that are performing really well. And

3:22

so it has created this situation

3:24

where we're only covering things lately

3:26

that are highly searched. And that

3:29

can be good because there's a

3:31

lot of service journalism to be

3:33

done. There's a lot of wonderful

3:35

products and fantastic brands out there.

3:37

But it has, in my opinion,

3:40

really flattened the coverage of men's grooming because

3:42

I'm not able to just write a little

3:44

love letter to a new product that I'm

3:46

in love with or spotlight a brand and

3:49

tell their story if they're really small because

3:51

no one's searching for those things. So that

3:53

to me has been the biggest shift in

3:55

the last few years. And I do think

3:57

it's actually going to change again now that

3:59

AI is sort of killing the search engine.

4:01

I think that will benefit the coverage

4:03

if anything, I hope at least that

4:05

we will have to pivot back towards

4:07

really focusing on the the

4:10

individual aspects of grooming and these little

4:12

love letters and the things that

4:14

are trends that we are spotting as

4:16

opposed to reactive journalism, which has

4:18

really been the last few years of

4:20

of my experience. Yeah, it's

4:22

really fascinating, actually. And I never thought about

4:25

that. It was this surgeon aspect because

4:27

you're right. I feel like for me as

4:29

a consumer, as a female consumer, I

4:31

always looked at products for men and I was

4:33

always thinking there's not enough out there. You know, and

4:35

I know I've said this before on on SA

4:37

before, our listeners have definitely heard me say,

4:39

right? I'm always like, where are the men's

4:41

products, you know, like for skincare or something like

4:43

that. But what you just said really kind

4:45

of opened my eyes a little bit just now,

4:47

because if you really think about it, it's

4:49

not that they're not out there. Yeah, it's that

4:51

they're not being talked about because of probably

4:53

exactly what you just mentioned, you know. Yeah.

4:56

And, and, you know, we have to place

4:58

a lot of products that we know are

5:00

going to sell. I will say that I've

5:02

been protected by editors and publications from, from

5:04

having to curate products based on partnerships

5:06

or anything like that. I am given really

5:08

good editorial reign over what I choose from my

5:10

articles, but I still have to do so

5:12

with the understanding of, you know, I know this

5:14

one is going to sell really well. I

5:17

know this one is going to sell really well

5:19

because that is what keeps the lights on.

5:21

So I almost have to lead with that sort

5:23

of thing. But what I will say is

5:25

regarding what your impression is of the men's side

5:27

is I, you know, as someone who is

5:29

inboxes inundated with men's products outside. No, we

5:31

got plenty of men's products. That's for sure.

5:33

However, there is an ecosystem that I think

5:35

exists on the women's side that doesn't exist

5:37

on the men's side and there's all these

5:40

brands that are so small that maybe they

5:42

don't see the value in buying a publicist

5:44

or they don't want to put that into

5:46

their budget because it can be very expensive

5:48

and so it's a lot more built on

5:50

these really small relationships. A lot of them

5:52

have my phone number and I have a

5:54

very personal relationship with all these brand founders

5:56

because it's such a small pool

5:58

on the men's side that I just

6:00

don't think there's the fervor around men's

6:03

grooming that there is on on the

6:05

website. I mean, I know there's not,

6:07

but I do hope in building my

6:09

own platform, Blueprint, and just the next

6:11

iteration of content on the internet, I

6:13

do hope that we can blow this

6:15

open a little more and this new

6:17

generation of consumers can be a lot

6:19

more interested in these wonderful men's brands

6:21

that are out there and that continue

6:24

to pop up. Absolutely, no.

6:26

That's why I think I love so much that

6:28

you're doing this and you're taking this step to

6:30

create blueprint because we as women

6:32

even are curious about men's products.

6:34

You know what I mean? Like there

6:36

is a curiosity on the... I think

6:38

half of our traffic on men's content

6:40

is actually from women, whether they're shopping

6:42

for their partners or just out of

6:44

their own curiosity, perhaps. Yeah, no,

6:46

absolutely. Like I'm always looking for stuff from my

6:49

little brother. I'm constantly,

6:51

you know, because he's still dealing with acne

6:53

and you know, all that. that stuff. So

6:55

it's like, I don't know where to direct

6:57

him sometimes. So yeah, I can definitely see

6:59

where women are still looking for their sons,

7:01

for their husbands, for their fathers. Like it's

7:03

a big thing. And we're the ones usually

7:05

shopping. Yeah, no, it's true.

7:07

We are very aware that sometimes

7:09

the audience we're speaking to is in

7:12

fact the concerned partner or mother

7:14

or sister of somebody who maybe isn't

7:16

as proactive for himself. I don't

7:18

want to put any adjectives on it,

7:20

but I do appreciate that people

7:22

are looking out for the people who

7:24

maybe aren't looking out for themselves

7:26

in this light. Absolutely. Now I want

7:28

to ask you, because I've noticed this quite a lot on

7:30

social media, and that's the

7:32

fact that men's grooming content, right?

7:34

It's really dominated by a lot

7:37

of the experts that in the medical

7:39

field, for example, like doctors, a lot

7:41

of chemists are out there, some barbers,

7:43

but there's not a lot of experts. generalist

7:45

coverage. Like we see in, for example,

7:47

we just talked about like the female sector of things, you

7:49

know, when it comes to beauty and lifestyle. So

7:51

why do you think that is? I

7:53

do think that people are looking

7:56

towards the experts more and more. And

7:58

those experts are making themselves more available.

8:00

So if you want skincare advice, okay,

8:02

well, why don't you take it from the

8:04

dermatologist? If you're a formulas for a

8:06

person, okay, then you follow the cosmetic chemist.

8:08

And so I understand that maybe someone

8:10

like me, who, you know, I consider myself

8:12

a grand general, So I think of

8:14

myself as like 80 to 90 % of

8:16

the way there in any category. And I'm

8:18

the guy who can connect to the

8:20

brand owners or to those experts and to

8:22

make sure that the facts are right,

8:24

whether I'm the one providing you those facts

8:26

or I'm just quoting someone else. And

8:29

so while my role has always been

8:31

very important just in terms of finding

8:33

the reader and understanding how to speak

8:35

to them, I do think on social

8:37

media that the people who have really

8:39

blown up are those dedicated experts. Now,

8:41

that to me doesn't mean that there

8:43

isn't a place for a generous like

8:45

me, but I do think it underscores

8:47

the importance of me. not just being

8:49

me on the platform and not to

8:51

make this about me, but like, let's

8:53

just say, let's get in my headspace

8:56

in building up blueprint. I want to

8:58

acknowledge that I am a generalist. So

9:00

if you have an interest in the

9:02

category at all, or in discovering the

9:04

new products that are in beard and

9:06

shave, in fragrance, in skincare, any of

9:08

these things, or just a, you know,

9:10

interesting new advancement in hair loss technology

9:12

or in skincare, these are the things

9:14

that you can find and that we

9:16

will connect you with people who are

9:18

experts in their fields to get you

9:20

this coverage. And so I

9:22

have to think of myself almost like

9:24

a magazine in that way. Get rid

9:26

of the chip on my shoulder, be

9:28

willing to be the least smart person

9:31

in a lot of the conversations I'm

9:33

having, and be the curious person who

9:35

can find that expert. I do think

9:37

that there is a lot of people

9:39

who don't know what they're talking about

9:41

on social media, and there's a lot

9:43

of people who are experts at it.

9:45

And so if I can even be

9:47

perceived as, you know, an 80 % of

9:49

the way they're person, then I'll take

9:51

that and I hope for that but

9:54

even when I'm listening to like fragrance

9:56

experts or dermatologists in my own feed

9:58

I'm like Sometimes I feel so out

10:00

of water in terms of what they

10:02

know compared to what I know. But

10:04

as a journalist, I always try to

10:06

get my facts right. And so I

10:08

do hope that someone who follows me

10:10

knows that I'm going to prioritize factual

10:12

scientific based information. And it

10:15

is that journalist integrity that

10:17

you can find with a lot

10:19

of us generalists. I love

10:21

that. I think that's what is for me

10:23

specifically, like for myself, I can only speak

10:25

of myself. So for me, that's very valuable

10:27

because I love the doctors and the chemists

10:29

and all of the people out there, right?

10:31

They're trying to educate. But there is this,

10:34

I feel like, because let me just say,

10:36

I grew up with the magazine era, right?

10:38

So I'm a millennial, I grew up reading

10:40

magazines. And for me, that was the expert

10:42

advice, you know? So I used to read

10:44

like Cosmo and I would read all these

10:46

magazines and I would get my advice from

10:49

there. And it was great. And it was

10:51

editors and journalists talking about very important topics

10:53

that I never felt like I was missing

10:55

out. You know what I mean growing up

10:57

and I would love to see that kind

10:59

of same Culture come back in this digital

11:01

era where people can feel like the person

11:03

that's giving me advice Even if you know,

11:06

it's not directly a doctor. They're a person

11:08

I trust and it's a voice I trust

11:10

and I think that's the bottom line when

11:12

it comes to Good coverage. The voice that

11:14

the word you just chose there is really

11:16

important, I think, too. Because, you know, think

11:18

of all the different magazines you could have

11:20

picked up as a teenager or I'm probably

11:23

the same age as you. And well, do

11:25

you pick up men's health? In my case,

11:27

you pick up GQ? Do you pick up

11:29

Esquire? Do you pick up Maxim? Like, which

11:31

one do you pick up for that advice?

11:33

And on the women's side, there's, you know,

11:35

10 times as many probably. And

11:37

so that is an important thing

11:40

is like, who do you want

11:42

to get this information from? And

11:44

hopefully a lot of people. I

11:46

try not to stick out. too much, I

11:48

do try to fit in in terms of like

11:50

my style and how I present myself in

11:52

certain situations. And so I guess I have to,

11:54

you know, figure out how do I stick

11:57

out in the sense of getting people to stop

11:59

in their scroll or follow me or sign

12:01

up for my newsletter. That's that's its own thing.

12:03

But I do hope that a lot of

12:05

people can see themselves and can look at me

12:07

and say, I can trust that guy for

12:09

information. And the voice that I'm providing is that

12:11

of their favorite magazine I've written for all

12:14

of them at this point. So maybe I'm like

12:16

the grand. And maybe I'm like the grand

12:18

average of all those things. But yeah, that is

12:20

something that's been in my head the last

12:22

few years as we've been planning this for sure.

12:25

Absolutely. No, I think that it is very,

12:27

very cool that you've had that background

12:29

and you're coming from a place of like,

12:31

listen, I've been talking about this stuff

12:33

for a while. You know, and so I

12:35

think for me, if I saw your

12:37

platform, I would be very keen to follow

12:39

you based on that. You know, it's

12:41

like the experience there matters. And I think

12:43

for a long time, this is what

12:46

kind of was driving the consumers towards editorial

12:48

because it was like, we wanted to

12:50

learn from the writers and the journalists that

12:52

had been around for a while. They've

12:54

seen everything. You guys have seen everything. You've

12:56

seen everything on the men's side and

12:58

you've seen the products and the way they

13:00

work and if they work and that

13:02

experience can't be replaced at the end the

13:04

day. I think that there's definitely a

13:06

niche for experts like in the science realm,

13:08

like being a doctor myself, I think

13:10

we can speak on a wide range of

13:13

things. But when it comes to like

13:15

the experience of using products, the experience of

13:17

like what you can actually expect, it's

13:19

very difficult to speak on mistakes. You know

13:21

what mean? And a big part of

13:23

an editor's job is to think like the

13:25

or think like your audience and give

13:27

them things that they will want because I

13:29

wouldn't get booked over and over by

13:31

my editors if my articles weren't ultimately selling

13:33

product and converting product or pleasing advertisers.

13:35

And so there is a thing for these

13:37

niche verticals, thinking of fragrance in particular.

13:40

I was just in LA recently and went

13:42

to Scent Bar. I discovered so many

13:44

brands I've never even heard of there. And

13:46

I just feel like a fool sometimes

13:48

when I walk in these places with these

13:50

experts because I think, well, gosh, even

13:53

just today, I got four boxes of

13:55

fragrance sent to me, individual fragrances, and

13:57

they're not really the most mass market

13:59

ones. But even then, I'm like, how,

14:01

how am I missing all these small

14:03

niche ones? But somebody who wants that

14:05

and that small niche perspective knows that

14:07

they can go to that place. And

14:09

so I have to think like the

14:11

consumer that just wants a guaranteed successful

14:13

fragrance, doesn't want to gamble their money,

14:15

maybe want something that his coworkers aren't

14:17

going to be wearing, but you can

14:19

come to me and there will be

14:21

niche, there will be mass, there will

14:23

something at every price point I will

14:25

be thinking of everyone and trying to

14:27

please everybody all at once with as

14:29

many pics as possible so that you

14:31

can say well I can throw a

14:33

dart at this entire bore that he

14:35

has set up and I will hit

14:37

a winner and that's how we have

14:39

to think we have to really think

14:41

like a bunch of different consumers all

14:43

at once in terms of budget and

14:45

whether they're on a date or at

14:47

work or whether they have acne or

14:49

thick hair or curly hair. And there's

14:51

a lot that goes on in your

14:53

head, but you have a huge obligation

14:55

when you are a grand generalist. And

14:57

I think the biggest one is to

14:59

your perceived guy, your reader. Right. Right.

15:01

No, that's that's very fascinating. And it

15:03

actually makes me wonder because I've always

15:05

wondered about this is the idea that

15:07

men from what I've observed through my

15:09

life is that when they find a

15:12

product they love, they hold on to

15:14

it. The consumer base is very different

15:16

in the sense that I'm sure the

15:18

repurchase rate in the male community for

15:20

these industries is much higher than women

15:22

because I know like my fiance, he

15:24

will buy the same thing over and

15:26

over again. He just does not change

15:28

products. I didn't forget it on Amazon

15:30

or whichever. the site is, right? Just

15:32

the subscribe. Yeah, like auto, auto ship.

15:34

The Birchbox model, if you will. Exactly.

15:36

I mean, I guess my question is

15:38

like, how do you really judge what's actually

15:40

going to be worth it for a

15:43

guy in terms of time and money and

15:45

getting to this place? What do you

15:47

think are some of the biggest contributing factors

15:49

to that? I think the first thing

15:51

I always start with is the branding. And

15:53

I don't know if that's like a

15:55

guilty admission or anything else. Because if something's

15:57

going to sell based on them reading

16:00

it in an article or seeing it on

16:02

social media, it does have to look

16:04

nice and it does have to look good.

16:06

I think there's so many products to

16:08

choose from. I genuinely think there's way too

16:10

many products to choose from. And so

16:12

I do think the first barrier to entry

16:15

should be that it should look nice

16:17

if it's going to be curated into a

16:19

space of products. And you know, there's

16:21

plenty exceptions to that rule, but that is

16:23

one of the biggest rules. And

16:25

so from there, we can then go and

16:27

look at the other aspects. For me, one of

16:29

the first things I think about with men

16:31

is just if he's going to repeat it, and

16:33

if we want him to build a habit

16:35

around it, then what is the price point? So

16:38

the price point to me, it doesn't have

16:40

to be the cheapest, but it certainly can't be

16:42

the most expensive. You know, if it's a

16:44

moisturizer, then I want to find something between probably

16:46

10 and 40. And I want

16:48

to make sure that this guy, whoever

16:50

he is is going to feel comfortable

16:52

spending the amount of money so that

16:55

he can maintain this habit. So you

16:57

might be thinking, wow, you're not even

16:59

starting with efficacy or any of these

17:01

things in bullet one or two. But

17:03

one of my main things is I

17:05

want to get these guys using a

17:07

thing and feeling this sort of loyalty

17:09

and a lot of that has to

17:11

do with branding and cost. And also

17:13

sometimes if I with baked within the

17:15

branding and a lot of times within

17:17

the subtext of the pitch emails I'm

17:19

getting or the conversations I'm having with

17:21

these I am doing little reads on

17:23

do I think this brand is going

17:25

to be around long enough? Or do

17:27

I think if it's a brand new

17:29

brand do they have it in them

17:31

to go the mile? Like is this

17:33

a brand that's going to be around

17:35

in five years? The answer is usually

17:38

yes if they've made it as far

17:40

as having a publicist or you know

17:42

being past my levels of consideration. And

17:44

for what it's worth like you can

17:46

get on my radar on day one

17:48

if you want. It's just sometimes I

17:50

maybe look at a brand and I

17:52

think like okay I don't know if

17:54

they're ready for this kind of placement

17:56

yet. And so once I work my

17:58

way through there, I've tested all these

18:00

products as well. I'm getting like hundreds

18:02

of products a month. It's wild. And

18:04

so what are my experiences with the

18:06

product? And I try not to universalize

18:08

all my experiences. Luckily, I have a

18:10

partner, same sex partner, and he has

18:12

very opposite preferences than me. He has

18:14

opposite skin type, opposite hair type. We

18:16

pretty much do everything opposite with things

18:18

I like. He doesn't and vice versa.

18:20

And so I have times to the

18:23

ability to test all these things and

18:25

get second opinions. Or if I don't

18:27

like something, I get the perspective of

18:29

somebody who does and vice versa. So

18:31

I am running all these things through

18:33

our own experiences with the products and

18:35

also sometimes if I don't like something.

18:37

I have to recognize that it just

18:39

might be my preference. So what is

18:41

the good in it? And can I

18:43

see in a situation in which another

18:45

guy might? So I am constantly having

18:47

to look at things personally, but then

18:49

also think of things universally and then

18:51

put all that into a big formula

18:53

in my head and decide, ding,

18:55

ding, ding, this product works. But I

18:58

guess I'm even realizing and saying this, that

19:00

a lot of it for me upfront

19:02

is just the branding and the price and

19:04

not the efficacy at all because The

19:06

efficacy is only going to be felt if

19:08

you're building something, if you're building a habit out

19:10

of most of these things. Yeah, I was,

19:12

yeah, I was just thinking that, sorry. Yeah,

19:15

but very few of these, some, some

19:17

products are instant, you know, like a,

19:19

an antiperspirant, a deodorant, a frag, like

19:21

there's plenty of skincare products, you know,

19:23

acne might take a couple of days,

19:25

but like it might not be a

19:27

90 day shift or a 30 day

19:30

shift or anything like that. But in

19:32

general, I'm also testing so many products

19:34

that sometimes for me, I'm going to

19:36

the ones that I find myself wanting

19:38

to use and wanting to complete and

19:40

so I'm sort of self editing as

19:42

I go and saying wow like we

19:44

went through that whole bottle despite having

19:46

40 other options that we've you know

19:49

been testing along the way and so

19:51

that type of product just sticks in

19:53

my head and probably gets 10 times

19:55

the coverage of anything else. It's the

19:57

stuff that I'm living with that is

19:59

eventually making the cut. And that is

20:01

what goes into a job like mine

20:03

where you are basically testing everything as

20:06

you're just seeing like what is standing

20:08

the test of time based on all

20:10

of these factors. What is clearing all

20:12

of these hurdles? So I've probably lost

20:14

the plot on the original question you've

20:16

asked. No, no, but I love I

20:18

love what you're saying. it's so genuine

20:20

because honestly at the end of the

20:22

day I'm sick of just like straight

20:25

like plain product reviews you know what

20:27

I mean and that's why I think

20:29

what you're doing is so wonderful and

20:31

unique because blueprint isn't about that it's

20:33

not just like straight -up product reviews

20:35

or anything you're creating a multi -platform kind

20:37

of space for your content where everyone

20:39

can get involved so I want to

20:42

ask you like what is your ultimate

20:44

vision for blueprint like where do you

20:46

see it going in the next like

20:48

10 years For example? Well, so we're

20:50

very new, I should tell people. We

20:52

launched in December and because I was

20:54

traveling for work for three months, very

20:57

poorly timed three months, we've been

20:59

focusing heavily on big YouTube videos

21:01

and weekly newsletters. And

21:03

those are still the intent. However,

21:05

this month we've been able to

21:07

pivot into more short form content

21:09

and building a presence on

21:11

social media. And my hope is

21:14

that the sum of all these parts

21:16

within a few years allows a I

21:18

would love to hire other people to

21:20

help so that we can polish things

21:22

where they need to be instead of

21:24

to my partner works with us works

21:26

with me as well. So it's two

21:28

people doing all these things from the

21:30

content management on the website to building

21:33

out our Yahoo syndicate articles to shooting

21:35

and videoing and editing and all of

21:37

that. I would love to have a

21:39

podcast where I can interview people across

21:41

the field, whether they're in the industry

21:43

or whether they're personalities who are wellness

21:45

adjacent or anything like that, I would

21:47

love to be a lot more proud.

21:49

I'm an expat for those who didn't

21:52

already know and I would love to

21:54

have to be back in the States

21:56

more and speaking at events and attending

21:58

these conferences. I mean, I can think

22:00

of a million different things that are

22:02

lacking on the men's side. I don't

22:04

know if it's necessarily a role that

22:06

I need to play in changing things,

22:09

but I do want there to feel

22:11

like some sort of community is built

22:13

around the men's grooming space as a

22:15

whole. And that's my ultimate goal with

22:17

Blueprint is to have other voices in

22:19

the mix. So I'm not just providing

22:21

my own point of view. I would

22:23

love to have a bunch of writers.

22:25

I would love to have them across

22:28

generations and ethnicities and preferences. And I

22:30

would love for there to feel like

22:32

there's some sort of cohesion. You know,

22:34

we have all these conventions and trade

22:36

fairs for barbers, for fragrance, for the

22:38

beauty industry, for all of these groups.

22:40

I would love for there to feel

22:42

like there's one cohesive one for grooming.

22:44

I would love for all of these

22:47

things just to sort of coalesce around

22:49

the category. And so my ultimate goal

22:51

with Blueprint is just to play a

22:53

pivotal role in that shift. I'm willing

22:55

to let it go where it wants

22:57

to go. And I would love for

22:59

that to be a dozen different things

23:01

a lot of people ask me do

23:04

you want to build your own grooming

23:06

brand at some point and the answer

23:08

is if that's the road that suddenly

23:10

reveals itself then maybe but right now

23:12

to me a grooming brand it could

23:14

be beard and shave and hair and

23:16

skin and fragrance and like which of

23:18

those would it even be? And so

23:20

my main priority right now is just

23:23

making this a space that brands look

23:25

to, that they value coverage from, that

23:27

other writers want to write for, that

23:29

brands want to invest in. Let's add

23:31

a bunch of exclamation marks after that

23:33

because we've sacrificed some salaries over here

23:35

to build this and to make it

23:37

something big. So if I can look

23:39

back in 10 years and just say,

23:42

oh, that was so cute. You know

23:44

month two or three when we were

23:46

just getting a couple articles up a

23:48

week if that I would love it

23:50

for it to be the complete opposite

23:52

and just to be like this factory

23:54

of information and helpful voices and different

23:56

voices all around the, you know, capital

23:58

C conversation. Absolutely. I love

24:01

that. I love that so much. And I

24:03

think that right now is such an

24:05

amazing time to do this because there is

24:07

definitely from what I'm noticing at least

24:09

there's a cultural shift definitely happening on the

24:11

side of like, there is more curiosity

24:13

and there is more willingness to listen and

24:15

to figure out what does fit for

24:18

men and you know and understanding I mean

24:20

I wrote for our education pieces sometimes

24:22

you know we write about certain things and

24:24

I one of the biggest topics for

24:26

me has been like there's this distinct difference

24:28

between men and women not only obviously

24:30

from this medical science side but there's just

24:32

a huge difference in the preferences and

24:34

in the consumerism behavior and there's so many

24:37

differences and I think right now is

24:39

such an important time right for all of

24:41

these industries whether it's wellness skincare beauty

24:43

any of it because there are products that

24:45

are claiming like we're unisex or we're

24:47

for everybody but then you don't see the

24:49

representation on the men's side you know

24:51

what I mean you don't see like okay

24:54

yes this is a unisex fragrance for

24:56

example but I'm not seeing a lot of

24:58

men being drawn to it And it

25:00

just makes you wonder, like, why is that,

25:02

right? And I really believe it's because

25:04

there aren't enough voices like yourself that are

25:06

just out there and they're really advocating

25:08

for why this actually is a good fit

25:11

for most men. And I think that's

25:13

where I just, I'm so fascinated by Blueprint

25:15

because I think it's going to be

25:17

an immense success. I think it's much needed

25:19

at this point, you know, to have

25:21

this kind of platform. Yeah. I appreciate all

25:23

that because that's exactly why blueprint exists. And

25:26

I will say on the branding side

25:28

of things or on the product side,

25:30

I do feel like in the last few

25:32

years, we've tried to move towards this

25:34

place of pleasing everybody with everything and almost

25:36

flattening things, whether that's from a product

25:39

side, you know, a lot of fragrances

25:41

are unisex and they should be. But

25:43

then you look at the marketing and it's

25:45

probably mostly often skewed towards women, especially

25:47

fragrance. A lot of that is I

25:49

think women are willing to cross over.

25:51

and shop for men and they're not put

25:53

off by it, but things men are

25:55

so easily put off by things that

25:57

are marketed towards women. And so men

25:59

almost need the assurance that this is

26:01

for them and this is for the

26:03

God. And I roll my eyes at that

26:05

a little bit, but sometimes... things can

26:08

just be matter of fact. And that

26:10

is often why I looked at the

26:12

branding. I don't love these brands that are

26:14

just like bro juice or something. That's

26:16

not a brand. But like, I'm sort

26:18

of like, what? Like that is just

26:20

so insecure. But it needs to feel like

26:22

something that a guy will put on

26:24

his sink ledge and happily use all

26:26

the time. And maybe a strange parallel

26:28

on the content side of things is the

26:30

flattening of content. And every piece of

26:32

content has for the last few years,

26:34

been trying to reach the most number

26:37

of readers because of that search engine.

26:39

The search engine really doesn't discern what

26:41

kind of person you are unless you make

26:43

it a hyper specific search. And so

26:45

we've just sort of been trying to

26:47

reach everybody. And I do think

26:49

with AI sort of cannibalizing a

26:51

lot of that content, I do think

26:53

it's going to be more and

26:55

more important to choose your target and

26:57

to point your content at that

26:59

person. And I realized that me saying

27:01

this is for all men is

27:03

a really generalized. And that is still

27:05

a lot of people. However, I

27:07

do think a lot of men will

27:09

prefer to read their content from

27:11

something that feels targeted towards them. And

27:13

so, you know, we do have

27:15

a lot of magazines. They've all been

27:18

my clients. And I

27:20

hope that their grooming coverage continues to

27:22

grow. But I sort of point

27:24

to the fact that men's fitness, for

27:26

example, a former client, well, still,

27:28

I guess a client of mine, they're

27:30

just not doing grooming since their

27:32

rebirth a few months ago. But they

27:34

got absorbed into men's journal, and

27:36

muscle and fitness got absorbed into men's

27:38

fitness before that. And so it

27:40

sort of all kept getting flattened into

27:42

men's journal, which was this general

27:44

catch -all of content as the search

27:46

engine was really taking over things. men's

27:49

fitness just got rebirthed by men's

27:51

journal because there was such a demand

27:53

for that kind of coverage and

27:55

people wanted to go to a space

27:57

that really had the word fitness

27:59

in it and that is targeted at

28:01

men because men and women probably

28:03

do fitness a lot differently and so

28:05

you almost saw this demand regrow

28:07

again for men's fitness to exist. And

28:10

now it does for the last

28:12

few months. And I do think more

28:14

things are going to be niche

28:16

and individualized in the content space these

28:18

days. So even though I myself

28:20

am all for, you know, I don't

28:22

care. Like I would read a

28:24

women's magazine if I wanted to, but

28:26

there's also the guys that will

28:28

only read men's content. So if I

28:30

can create a space and sort

28:32

of be in my own perspective indifferent

28:34

about where I get my information

28:36

from, I really don't care if the

28:38

information I'm creating says. for men,

28:40

grooming for men. Yeah, it's for everybody,

28:42

but if there are just enough

28:44

people that are only going to read

28:46

it if it says for men,

28:48

I'm happy to pitch that tent for

28:50

them. It's quality at the

28:52

end the day. It's quality content. If

28:54

you're putting out something that's genuinely informational,

28:56

it's educational, it's actually valuable in nature,

28:59

it doesn't matter who's reading it. I

29:01

completely see what you're saying. And I

29:03

do think on the men's side, we've

29:05

lacked things that can compete in pur

29:07

editorial. I think for a long time,

29:09

the quality on the women's has just

29:11

been so sky -high and exceptional that on

29:14

the men's side, we're almost like, it's

29:16

almost like cute what we're doing. It's

29:18

really, it's, it's, you know,

29:20

sometimes even the pitches I get from

29:22

publicists are really almost treating me like,

29:24

like I just discovered men's grooming yesterday.

29:26

And I want to be like, like,

29:29

hello. Like, I could write for Allure.

29:31

I could write for the New York

29:33

Times. Like I can write for all

29:35

these places. I am at that level.

29:37

It's just that there's maybe ten of

29:39

us in the men's editorial space that

29:41

are at that level and there's like

29:43

hundreds of women on the editorial side

29:46

that are at that level in terms

29:48

of grooming and versus beauty. And so

29:50

I'm hoping that we can collectively bring

29:52

up the men's coverage a lot more

29:54

and that even the consumers, especially these

29:56

young ones that are just coming in

29:58

hot with so much information at their

30:01

fingertips and a lot more interest in

30:03

the category. I hope that they can

30:05

help us raise that bar over the

30:07

next decade or two so that the

30:09

content that they are reading isn't just

30:11

treating them like beginning. of

30:13

them are beginners and that content needs

30:15

to exist but I just sometimes feel

30:18

like the consumer on the men's side

30:20

isn't being given the respect he deserves

30:22

and at that point we probably are

30:24

losing them to the women's coverage and

30:26

if that guy is in the

30:28

know enough about retinol or even alopecia

30:30

any of those things he'll give up

30:32

on on the outlet if he can

30:35

find something different or better at Healthline

30:37

or at Allure and I just want

30:39

to create a space where we can

30:41

compete for for that really informed

30:43

reader as well. Absolutely. And you

30:45

know, I was going to bring this

30:47

up to you because a while ago I

30:49

interviewed the founder of American Crew and

30:51

I had a really great conversation with him

30:53

about the barber culture, right? And it

30:55

was like so eye -opening for me because

30:57

I've watched men that I care about throughout

31:00

my lifetime go to the same barber.

31:02

You know what I mean? Again and again

31:04

for years, I talked to him about

31:06

that and it was so fascinating to listen

31:08

to that because there is this very

31:10

different kind of reporting that needs to happen

31:12

on the men's side because there are

31:14

things that are a cultural part of like

31:16

men's grooming that we as women, we

31:18

don't understand that. And we don't really know

31:20

how to really comprehend it. But I

31:22

guarantee if a man is reading it and

31:24

he does go to like, say you

31:26

wrote something about, you know, like barbershops and

31:29

like their history or whatever it might

31:31

be, that's interesting, right? In that category, men

31:33

are going to read that because that

31:35

resonates with them, you know? And I think

31:37

with women, a lot of times when

31:39

women try to cover men's grooming or men's

31:41

topics, a lot of times the topics

31:43

and the little details that should be really

31:45

honed in on, we kind of missed

31:47

the mark there because we're not there. We

31:49

don't have the experience and we don't

31:51

have the personal insight to add in. So

31:53

I think that was just like an

31:56

example. I remember it stood out to me

31:58

because I was like, wow, I just

32:00

learned a lot about barbershops, you know, in

32:02

this interview because I didn't know. I

32:04

didn't know this stuff. So I think that's

32:06

where for even women that are reading

32:08

your content, it's going to be enlightening because

32:10

we don't know how men think and

32:12

we don't know what really hooks them you

32:14

know when it comes to like what

32:16

they want to learn about and so I

32:18

think it could be a huge learning

32:20

experience as well for anyone who's out there

32:23

who's a doctor or chemist or you

32:25

are trying to speak about things that are

32:27

going to land for men it's important

32:29

to understand how to speak to the demographic

32:31

and it really does matter so I

32:33

think it should be a really big learning

32:35

tool like what you're creating with blueprint

32:37

for a lot of other journalists as well

32:39

I see that very clearly so Yeah,

32:41

absolutely. I've always thought it was funny when

32:43

on the men's grooming side, we have

32:45

an article about facial hair or even something

32:47

as weird as butt sweat. And

32:50

it has a women's byline on

32:52

it. And again, I'll read my

32:54

content anywhere, but I do think

32:56

there's something about being lived in

32:58

in terms of who you're taking

33:00

your advice from. And it's

33:02

sort of like I do a lot of

33:04

travel writing as well. And we were just

33:06

in Korea and Japan for a couple months,

33:08

you know, which was a big reason blueprint

33:10

was was a little more dormant in its

33:12

first few months. And I was staying at

33:14

a bunch of hotels and spas, great assignment,

33:16

by the way, reviewing hotel spas in Japan

33:18

and Korea. But jealous. Yeah. But you know,

33:20

a lot of that stuff could have been

33:22

Googled and I could have written it in

33:25

an afternoon from my apartment. But if I'm

33:27

going to future proof myself as a travel

33:29

writer, then I have to write about the

33:31

stuff that I'm actually doing. And then if

33:33

I want that to be the case, I

33:35

have to actually go to the place and

33:37

live in it and write it. And it's

33:39

the sort of the same thing with grooming

33:41

and beauty, where there's certain things that can

33:43

be Googled. You can just write an article

33:45

where you're regurgitating what the brand has told

33:48

you and you're saying the ingredients that are

33:50

in it and saying, okay, Aloe Vera does

33:52

this and Niacinamide does this. But there is

33:54

a difference in actually being somebody with the

33:56

facial hair or who sits in their own

33:58

sweat every single day because they're a big

34:00

hairy, sweaty person. And it's the same reason

34:02

that I hope blueprint can be. a place

34:04

where I'm employing a lot of different writers

34:06

with a lot of different voices because there's

34:08

a lot of things even on the pure

34:10

men's side that I can't cover. I don't

34:13

know a black man's experience. I don't know

34:15

what it's like to have his hair texture.

34:17

I don't know what it's like for somebody

34:19

who has extremely sensitive skin. You know, I

34:21

don't know what it's like to have a

34:23

full facial hair. I've got a patchy beard.

34:25

I can write about having vitiligo and because

34:27

I have it, I would think it was

34:29

weird if somebody who didn't have vitiligo was

34:31

writing about it unless it was from an

34:33

extremely scientific perspective. And so it's like, I

34:35

can only write about certain things as a

34:38

generalist, but there's so many things that are

34:40

so valuable to hear from the people who

34:42

are going through them and experiencing them. I

34:44

think that is why it is important to

34:46

have a man's byline on an article that

34:48

is very specific to a man's experience. And

34:50

I don't know, it's like a weird conversation

34:52

because like, I'm sounding very like woe is

34:54

man sometimes when I talk about the lack

34:56

of coverage or the lack of writers. Yeah,

34:59

and I don't think man, like woe

35:01

is man at all. in my life,

35:03

but I do really want to underscore

35:05

that it is important for somebody to

35:07

see themselves in the content they're reading.

35:10

And in a strange way, it is important

35:12

for a man who probably has had

35:14

everything else work for him in his life

35:16

read an article that is by another

35:18

man. And that isn't Adam Hurley saying women

35:20

shouldn't write articles for men. That is

35:22

just saying that like there are certain topics

35:24

in the men's side that I think

35:26

should be covered. by guys and should be

35:29

us having a conversation like we're you

35:31

know are we in the locker room I

35:33

don't know are we at the bar

35:35

wherever we are we're just having this conversation

35:37

but but the tone of voice the

35:39

the oh yeah that happens to me too

35:41

god I hate beer dandruff you know

35:43

those kinds of things like oh yeah I

35:45

didn't know you could use antiperspirant on

35:47

your toe it's like all these sorts of

35:50

things are the stuff that we talk

35:52

about and I don't think it would be

35:54

right for me to write a lot

35:56

of articles on the women's side too the

35:58

majority of that space is crossover when

36:00

you're just talking about skin or hair or

36:02

fragrance there's so much stuff that is

36:04

crossover but there is that peripheral stuff that

36:06

is gendered on the spectrum that is

36:09

so specific to that experience and that doesn't

36:11

go just for gender you know that

36:13

goes for for age, that goes for ethnicity,

36:15

that goes for income. There's like all

36:17

these different facets. Like it's very different for

36:19

me to write an article for Rob

36:21

report than it is to write an article

36:23

for men's journal or even GQ because

36:25

you have different things to think about and

36:27

budget being one of them. And so

36:30

that is the job of a journalist, especially

36:32

in magazines to just really think about

36:34

all these things in the audience and yourself

36:36

as the author. And I think if

36:38

you are writing an article, being very aware

36:40

of your shortcomings and making sure you

36:42

get the experts saying things. And again, a

36:44

lot of like the, maybe the women

36:46

bylines that I would, I now feel like

36:48

I was complaining about before, which, you

36:51

know, a lot of them are great journalists

36:53

and who are going to those experts

36:55

and getting the quotes where they need to

36:57

be. And, and that is fantastic,

36:59

you know, understanding what their shortcomings are on the

37:01

topic. But there have been a number of times

37:03

where I've been reading article and I'm just like,

37:05

even if it's a guy writing it, or I'm

37:07

just like, I don't think this guy, I

37:11

don't know sometimes I'll even Google and

37:13

I'll be like this even like ever has

37:15

even ever shaved like he's talking about

37:17

razors and I'm like I don't see him

37:19

ever with a fresh face you know

37:22

and so it's kind of it's sort of

37:24

that stuff like is the person writing

37:26

this in the know and or have they

37:28

taken the measures to prove that they

37:30

know where they're coming from so well I

37:32

mean I completely agree and also like

37:34

one thing that really comes to my mind

37:36

about this whole topic, I think, you

37:38

know, my brother's 10 years younger than me.

37:40

So he's at that stage where he's

37:42

always watching these like YouTube videos and he's

37:44

always laughing because there's a lot of

37:46

YouTubers out there right now that are young

37:48

men and they're creating content about things

37:50

like how to be a man, you know,

37:52

and he'll then need these videos. And

37:54

I'm like, what is going on? You know,

37:56

like young men are so confused right

37:58

now, I feel like. And so a lot

38:00

of the times, you know, my point

38:02

is a lot of times in these videos,

38:04

it's like product recommendations. And these young

38:06

men are following this blindly because they don't

38:08

know, I don't think they know any

38:10

better. They haven't seen the really professional journalism

38:12

side where it's like someone really giving

38:14

them true recommendations based on actual research and,

38:16

you know, all of the wonderful things

38:18

that go behind creating something that you would

38:20

write about, right? So they don't have

38:22

that. So what they're doing is they're gravitating

38:24

toward these random content creators, which I

38:26

know all of us do, regardless of gender.

38:28

But especially in this space, I'm noticing

38:30

they're asking questions such as, what is the

38:32

best? and if I want to get

38:34

a girlfriend or something, yeah. Or

38:36

yeah, I land my job and get

38:38

rich or something like that. Exactly,

38:40

exactly. And so I'm just, I watch

38:42

this and I'm like, oh my

38:44

gosh, this is like a huge... It's

38:46

no accident that some of the

38:49

best performing content that we ever see

38:51

on the men's side stems from

38:53

insecurities. And that is in

38:55

smelling good, in hair loss always

38:57

performs so, so well. And I

38:59

do think at the heart of

39:01

that is... consumer who wants to

39:03

impress his colleagues, impress women, be

39:05

dateable, be perceived as attractive when

39:08

he walks into a room. And

39:10

I think every human has all

39:12

of these qualities in themselves. I

39:14

watch that same content that he

39:16

does, not as a person. I

39:18

watch it as research. I watch

39:21

it as like, wow.

39:24

I cannot. Also, sometimes I watch these

39:26

videos and I'm like, wait.

39:28

He phrased that in a way that I

39:30

definitely phrased that in my article that is

39:32

number one search on Google on the topic. Sometimes

39:35

I'm like, wait, did this

39:37

YouTuber just regurgitate something that

39:39

I wrote? But I

39:41

sometimes just write off that

39:43

section of the internet. I

39:45

think I just think, OK, well, there's

39:48

billions of men in the world. Enough of

39:50

them are only going to go to

39:52

this guy who clearly goes to the gym

39:54

twice a day and is conventionally attractive

39:56

and shows off all his assets on, you

39:58

know, his cars and his house and

40:00

all this stuff. Like, and that's

40:02

a type of ambition that works for influencers.

40:04

And that's why that guy is an

40:06

influencer is because he can, he can move

40:08

mountains when it, when it comes to

40:10

that sort of stuff. But I, I hope

40:13

your brother is also going to doctor

40:15

is like yourself. He laughs

40:17

at it too, because he's just like,

40:19

what's going on? And he's like, what

40:21

is happening here? Because they're asking about

40:23

some of those topics, right? And it's

40:25

not something, I'm not laughing at any

40:27

of these questions because they're very real

40:30

questions that these young men are asking.

40:32

You know, they're asking about like whether

40:34

it's hair care, sweat, whatever the need

40:36

is. They're asking real questions, you know,

40:38

and they're very real topics. But unfortunately,

40:40

their go -to person is this random guy,

40:43

you know, and it's exactly what you

40:45

said. He goes to the gym twice

40:47

a day. He drinks like five protein.

40:49

shakes a day there's one in particular

40:51

i'm thinking of where he even went

40:53

to istanbul he didn't get a hair

40:55

transplant himself but somebody he knew did

40:58

and and the guy couldn't even pronounce

41:00

Istanbul correctly, you know, and I'm

41:02

just like, oh my god. Yeah.

41:05

No, that's such a it's such an interesting

41:08

part of the internet. I feel like

41:10

this whole movement thing that's and you know,

41:12

that's why I think it's just I

41:14

really, really love that you're doing this. And

41:16

I I think that, you know, with

41:18

time, it's going to it's going to have

41:20

such a ripple effect because I think

41:22

everyone deserves to be represented. And I have

41:24

been a huge advocate for this in

41:26

my personal life where I feel like a

41:28

lot of times men are kind of

41:30

pushed to the side because everyone's like Oh,

41:32

you know, like screw the patriarchy kind

41:34

of thing, right? But it's like that has

41:36

nothing to do with like, you know,

41:38

like everyone has needs. Everyone has questions and

41:40

those questions deserve answers and they deserve

41:42

like researched answers. So that's where I feel

41:44

like there is something that from a

41:47

cultural level that's requiring this kind of thing

41:49

now, you know, because I would love

41:51

to see the young men or whatever they

41:53

are in their life, like to be

41:55

able to go to a resource and say,

41:57

okay, yeah, I can trust this. sense

41:59

to me, it speaks to me on a

42:01

personal level. That's, I mean, that's

42:03

an experience that can't be replicated by

42:05

an influencer just can't. So I hope

42:07

that I do hope that the the

42:09

bar for influencers does does rise with

42:11

I have a lot of faith in

42:13

this really young generation who I think

42:15

is just much more authentic and their

42:17

bullshit sensors are a lot more honed

42:19

than a lot of us who are

42:21

older than them. And so I guess

42:23

right now I'm just hoping that like

42:25

the person who wants to find me can

42:27

will find me and and that there's

42:29

enough of those people for me to

42:31

make a living off of it and

42:34

there's enough of us those people for

42:36

us to then reach even more people

42:38

through our demand growing and the voices that

42:40

we hire that I don't mean this

42:42

just for like blueprint but I hope

42:44

that this kind of guy that you're

42:46

referencing who is an influencer sort of

42:48

becomes I hope a thing of

42:50

the past. However, I do think that there's

42:52

always going to be the type of guy

42:54

that that only wants to hear his advice

42:56

from that kind of guy. And yeah, maybe

42:58

maybe it's just it's a cut my losses

43:00

kind of feeling. But I guess there's probably

43:02

an equivalent on the women's side too. But

43:05

again, I just think that women this is

43:07

like a very cliche generalization is just that

43:09

women are just better educated about this stuff

43:11

than men are from a young age. And

43:13

the bar that you need to clear as

43:15

an influencer on the women's side is probably

43:17

much higher than the bar that you need

43:19

to clear on the men's side. And so

43:21

even though maybe you roll your eyes at,

43:23

at certain women influencers out there, I would

43:25

guess that their starting point isn't the same

43:27

level of insecurity that a lot of these

43:29

men are starting from. And also like, I

43:31

don't even know if a lot of these

43:34

men watching this have even ever used a

43:36

moisturizer or a conditioner. And so it's just

43:38

like a weird, it's just, it is a

43:40

weird landscape. And that's where I'm just like,

43:42

y 'all just find me when you need me.

43:44

It's fine. I'm

43:46

here when you need, when you need to.

43:48

know more and and and is pronounced Istanbul

43:50

for it for what it's right. I'm

43:54

going to put like a chapter note on this

43:56

part of the podcast. Yeah. Yeah,

43:58

I mean, honestly, though, it's it's such

44:00

a it's such an interesting space. And I'm

44:02

just so excited to see someone such

44:04

as yourself with such vast experience entering it

44:06

and and trying to redefine this whole

44:08

narrative that's been around just men's products for

44:10

so long. It's something that we need

44:12

more of a spotlight on this. I'm very

44:14

curious myself, you know, to learn about

44:16

topics that I know nothing about. So I

44:18

promise you, I'm going to be on

44:21

your site like every day looking up, you

44:23

know, what you're writing about, because it's

44:25

fascinating. It's really fascinating. If you have butt

44:27

sweat or, you know, be a gender

44:29

of questions, like I'm happy to answer that.

44:31

Yeah, you can never have enough knowledge.

44:33

You know what I mean? So if I

44:35

meet a man on the street, I

44:37

can educate him. You

44:39

know, so if you see his like

44:41

swampy khakis, you you pointed my

44:43

way. I will. No, I

44:45

will. This is great though. I'm so excited

44:47

that you're doing it. And for everyone listening, I'm

44:49

going to be linking everything in the show

44:51

notes. So I really hope you guys go check

44:53

out the site and really support Blueprint overall

44:55

because it's much needed to have this. You know,

44:58

I can't say that enough. But thank you

45:00

so much, Adam. Thank you. And if I can

45:02

also point them especially to the newsletter, you

45:04

can find that link on all of our

45:06

social channels, but also at our main website

45:08

too. And the website's a little weird to

45:10

type in just because all the URLs for

45:13

the word Blueprint have been taken, but you

45:15

can go to grooming .tips and there's a

45:17

link to the newsletter there. And that's something

45:19

I really, really pride myself on every weekend,

45:21

every Sunday or Monday where I'm sending that

45:23

out. And it's, you know, the best new

45:25

products that are, that are, I think men

45:28

are interested in and it's sort of me

45:30

living in the grooming space throughout the week,

45:32

but there's social media will feel like a

45:34

dynamic place for blueprint. But, but for me,

45:36

the newsletter is really where I really want

45:38

to point people to. So please sign up

45:40

for the newsletter, open it, engage with it.

45:42

I would really appreciate it. I will link

45:45

that as well in our show notes. We'll

45:47

link it in the show notes. If you're

45:49

listening right now, just scroll down in the notes

45:51

and you'll see it right there so you

45:53

guys can go and subscribe. Please subscribe. Thank

45:56

you. great. Yeah. Thank you so much, Adam. This has

45:58

been so fun. I can't wait to have you back

46:00

if you're, you know, if your schedule allows, because I'd

46:02

love to have you. Thanks, Axel, or you'll be on

46:04

my podcast one day. Who knows? Oh, yeah. Anytime. I'd

46:06

love to. What an honor. For those listening, he doesn't

46:08

exist yet, but it will one day. I'd

46:10

love to. That sounds cool. And I wish

46:13

you so much all the best, you know, all

46:15

the good vibes for this. Thank you. And

46:17

thanks for having me on again. Truly, it's a

46:19

it's a pinch me moment. So I appreciate

46:21

it. Thank you so much. Yeah. Hey,

46:23

guys. So I hope you love that episode. Please

46:26

make sure to hit subscribe if you're

46:28

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