0:01

I don't know about you guys, but

0:03

any time I hear on the news

0:05

like an asteroid is going to be

0:08

passing within X miles of Earth's atmosphere,

0:10

I sort of feel like a doomsday

0:12

prepper. I'm like, all right, the end

0:14

is near everyone, kiss your loved ones

0:16

goodbye, duck and cover. But in

0:18

reality, meteors and asteroids hit Earth

0:21

way more frequently than I care

0:23

to know about. And we have survived to

0:25

tell the tale so far. including

0:28

that time a massive piece

0:30

of space debris caused an

0:32

explosion in Russia back in

0:35

1908. Only in that case, the

0:37

possibility of an asteroid

0:39

or meteor was called

0:41

into question due to

0:44

one glaring omission. There

0:46

was no crater left in

0:48

its wake. This led many

0:50

people to wonder what

0:52

really caused the mysterious

0:55

explosion. known as the

0:57

Tongaska event. Because for

0:59

years, people have tried and

1:01

failed to figure it out,

1:04

leading many to wonder, was

1:06

something more supernatural

1:08

to blame for one of

1:11

the biggest impact events in

1:13

modern history. I'm Ashley

1:15

Flowers, and this is so

1:18

supernatural. Aloha

1:29

friends, I'm Rasha Peccarero, and

1:31

I'm Yvette Genteel. And today,

1:33

we're talking about something that's

1:35

literally out of this world.

1:38

More than 100 years ago,

1:40

something seemingly from outer space

1:42

flattened 830 square miles of

1:44

forest in central Siberia. That's

1:46

almost the size of Rhode

1:48

Island. And at the time,

1:51

it was the biggest explosion

1:53

of the millennium. But when

1:55

the investigators went to check

1:57

it out, they couldn't figure

1:59

it out. what caused it.

2:02

There was no meteorite, no

2:04

crater, nothing. Whatever the object

2:06

was, it just seemed

2:08

like it vanished without

2:10

a trace. To this

2:12

day, people still wonder

2:14

what happened in Tongaska.

2:16

But in this case,

2:18

the best answer might

2:20

really be extraterrestrial. We're

2:22

talking UFOs naturally. And

2:24

believe me, this one

2:26

gets good. There

2:33

are some cases so infamous that

2:35

we have all heard about them,

2:37

but some of the coldest cases,

2:39

the most mysterious, are the ones

2:41

that you've never heard of before.

2:43

I'm Ashley Flowers and every Wednesday

2:45

on my show The Deck. I

2:47

dive into the coldest of cold

2:49

cases. Many of these victims didn't

2:51

get the press coverage they deserve

2:53

during the initial investigations, but I'm

2:55

sharing what our reporting team has

2:57

found on these stories in hopes

2:59

that someone listening may have the

3:01

information needed to bring answers to light.

3:04

And that listener could be you. Listen

3:06

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5:06

a total sucker for big blockbuster

5:08

films like, you know, Armageddon with

5:10

Ben Affleck and our dear friend

5:12

Will Patton. But it's one thing

5:15

to go to the movies and

5:17

watch some good-looking men suit up

5:19

to save the world. We can't

5:22

forget the beautiful women that were

5:24

in that movie like Liv Tyler.

5:26

Hello. Okay, fair enough, fair enough.

5:29

But damn, it is another to

5:31

imagine that one of these things

5:33

may actually land on my house.

5:36

Right. And when you think about

5:38

it, we've gotten really lucky when

5:40

it comes to this stuff, because

5:42

apparently millions of meteors enter Earth's

5:45

atmosphere every year. Millions. That's right.

5:47

And if you listen to Neil

5:49

Degrass Tyson, he's amazing. He's so

5:52

invested in this. It's literally millions.

5:54

Yeah, I love Neil Degrass Tyson.

5:56

Now, most of these meteors are

5:59

tiny. you rarely see one bigger

6:01

than a baseball. And the heat

6:03

from plummeting through the atmosphere

6:05

usually burns them up before

6:08

they even reach us. But still,

6:10

there's like 10,000 of these things

6:12

that actually hit the ground each year.

6:14

And when they do, it isn't pretty.

6:16

For example, in 2023, a

6:18

metallic meteorite the size of a

6:20

brick smashed through a house in New

6:23

Jersey. It bounced off the floor and

6:25

tore another hole in the ceiling. The

6:27

family that lived there was home at

6:29

the time, but luckily no one was hurt.

6:31

That's terrifying. I guess it could get

6:33

worse, right? I mean, we all know

6:35

what happened to the dinosaurs. Yes, but

6:37

like the age-old mystery of what

6:40

happened to the dinosaurs, I think

6:42

you'll find the situation at Tonguska

6:44

equally mind-blowing. So let's turn

6:46

the clock back to June 30th, 1908,

6:49

when our story begins and travel to

6:51

the Gobi Desert. Now the maps have been

6:53

redrawn a few times since since then.

6:55

But at the time, the goby was

6:58

part of northern China near the border

7:00

of Imperial Russia. A little

7:02

after 7 a.m. that day, a

7:04

nomadic caravan looked up at the morning

7:06

sky, and that's when they saw

7:08

a ball of fire zipping north

7:10

towards Russia. 17 minutes

7:13

later, there's a massive explosion

7:15

in the central Siberian

7:17

plateau near the stony Tunguska

7:20

River in Russia. And when I say

7:22

massive, I mean massive. People hundreds

7:24

of miles away said they saw

7:26

an enormous pillar of fire reach

7:28

all the way up to the

7:30

heavens. It was followed by a roaring

7:32

sound as the ground shook beneath

7:35

their feet. To put it into perspective,

7:37

if it had happened today, the earthquake

7:40

would be a 5.0 on the Richter

7:42

scale. And if you were there, looking

7:44

up, it would have seemed like the

7:46

sky was cut into. A witness

7:49

said, quote, One had the impression

7:51

that the earth was just about

7:53

to gape open and everything would

7:55

be swallowed up in the abyss.

7:57

It sounds like those who witnessed

7:59

this... They thought that they were

8:01

experiencing some sort of apocalyptic event,

8:04

like the world was actually coming

8:06

to an end. And a quick

8:08

side note here, there are a

8:10

lot of names outside of our

8:13

native tongue coming up. You'll hear

8:15

us give it our best go,

8:17

but it's worth calling out. Anyway,

8:20

this one guy named S.B. Seminov

8:22

was about 50 miles away when

8:24

the explosion happened. He was sitting

8:27

on his porch when all of

8:29

a sudden... The whole sky lit

8:31

up like there was a second

8:34

sun. He barely had time to

8:36

register what was happening before the

8:38

shockwave literally tossed him into the

8:40

air and knocked him unconscious. When

8:43

he woke up a few seconds

8:45

later, the ground was still shaking

8:47

and it nearly brought his entire

8:50

house down. Almost 400 miles away,

8:52

hurricane force winds shook doors and

8:54

windows and even made horses fall

8:57

over. Some fishermen were fixing their

8:59

boats when the shockwave hit, and

9:01

they were thrown into the stony

9:03

Tunguska River. The explosion sucked up

9:06

tons of dirt and dust into

9:08

the sky, literally blocking out the

9:10

sun and creating thunderstorms. And over

9:13

the next few hours, black rain

9:15

drenched nearby villages. The next day,

9:17

the story was front page news

9:20

on almost every Siberian paper. They

9:22

talked about a flying object that

9:24

set the force on fire. They

9:27

all suspected that it was a

9:29

meteorite, but as far as we

9:31

can tell, no one actually went

9:33

to see the blast site for

9:36

themselves. Which was why the mystery

9:38

prevailed, especially when people as far

9:40

as Western Europe noticed something strange

9:43

in the night sky. And this

9:45

was weeks after the blast. Newsp

9:47

Newspapers in Germany, England, and Spain

9:50

commented on the inexplicable yellow and

9:52

white lights that kept appearing after

9:54

sunset. But word of the Tunguska

9:56

explosion hadn't reached them yet, so

9:59

most newspapers chocked it up to

10:01

a lecture. discharge from the sun.

10:03

Sort of like the aurora borealis.

10:06

But the aurora usually lights up

10:08

northern spots like Iceland and Canada

10:10

and it's pretty rare for it

10:13

to get as far south as

10:15

Spain. Something like that only happens

10:17

I don't know maybe every 20

10:20

years or so. But even then

10:22

a lot of people said it

10:24

didn't really look like the northern

10:26

lights. In places like Scotland it

10:29

was still so bright after midnight

10:31

you could literally read a book

10:33

outside. That is so, so very

10:36

eerie. And the fact that these

10:38

lights are seemingly popping up all

10:40

over Europe for weeks, it definitely

10:43

doesn't sound like your average northern

10:45

lights. Totally. And it takes a

10:47

long time for anyone in Europe

10:49

to make the connection between the

10:52

lights and the explosion in Tunguska.

10:54

Probably because the event happened in

10:56

one of the most remote uninhabited

10:59

places on the planet. And look,

11:01

okay. We won't bore you with

11:03

all the geographic details, but it's

11:06

important to get a sense of

11:08

the landscape where this actually happened.

11:10

First of all, Siberia is ginormous.

11:13

It makes up three quarters of

11:15

Russia's total landmass, pretty much the

11:17

whole northern part of the country.

11:19

It's like if you place Mexico

11:22

next to Brazil, that might give

11:24

you a sense of how big

11:26

we're talking. But the area is

11:29

only home to, I don't know,

11:31

about 36 million people. which might

11:33

sound like a lot, but it

11:36

evens out to be like seven

11:38

people per square mile. And back

11:40

in 1908, it was even less

11:42

than that. And that might be

11:45

because it isn't exactly the easiest

11:47

place to live. During the winter,

11:49

it's brutally cold. In the summer,

11:52

the snow melts, and it becomes

11:54

this dense wilderness of pine trees

11:56

and swamps. There are even giant

11:59

swarms of mosquitoes. In 1908, most

12:01

of the people who lived there

12:03

were actually exiles and prisoners. Folks

12:06

who were sent there to... work

12:08

in brutal labor camps, sometimes for

12:10

life. The rest of the locals

12:12

were either poor rural settlers or

12:15

members of the local indigenous population

12:17

called the Evanke. Okay, so this

12:19

all goes to say this really

12:22

big thing happens, but it's way

12:24

out in the boonies where hardly

12:26

anybody lives, and the newspapers that

12:29

actually reported on it were these

12:31

tiny publications. So. No one in

12:33

the bigger cities really paid any

12:35

attention. Plus, the country had bigger

12:38

fish to fry. Imperial Russia was

12:40

going through this dark period of

12:42

turmoil and unrest, and it got

12:45

worse as the years went on.

12:47

We're talking World War I, the

12:49

Communist Revolution, a bloody civil war,

12:52

and a typhus epidemic that killed

12:54

millions. Russia was not a good

12:56

place to be back then. And

12:59

in the midst of all the

13:01

chaos, there probably wasn't a lot

13:03

of interest in this weird explosion

13:05

out in the middle of nowhere.

13:08

People had better things to worry

13:10

about. Exactly. So this enormous blast

13:12

goes off and Imperial Russia basically

13:15

shrugs its shoulders. Then the government

13:17

gets replaced and rebranded as the

13:19

USSR, and the new government is

13:22

basically just trying to keep its

13:24

head above water. Which maybe why

13:26

it wasn't until 12 years later,

13:28

around 1921 or 1922, that anyone

13:31

even bothered looking into the Tunguska

13:33

event. And that person was Leonid

13:35

Kulik. Kulik was a geologist and

13:38

exactly the kind of person you'd

13:40

want digging into this mystery. He

13:42

was this rugged scientist-adventurer type who

13:45

liked nothing better than solving the

13:47

riddles of the universe. It all

13:49

started back in 1918 when he

13:52

was serving in the army. Kulik

13:54

was called out to inspect fragments

13:56

of a 300-pound meteorite in the

13:58

Soviet town of Koshan, about 130

14:01

miles north of Moscow. At the

14:03

time, there weren't many scientists who

14:05

knew a lot about meteorites. So

14:08

his report on the caution rock

14:10

pretty much made him Russia's top

14:12

meteorite specialist. And he took it

14:15

as a calling. Then in 1921,

14:17

one of his colleagues handed him

14:19

a decade-old newspaper clipping. It described

14:21

a large meteorite strike in Siberia.

14:24

Kulik realized if he could find

14:26

this meteorite, it might contain all

14:28

sorts of valuable metals like... nickel,

14:31

iron and platinum. Stuff that would

14:33

be worth a lot of money,

14:35

even today. Not to mention, it

14:38

could make him super famous. He

14:40

convinced the Soviet Academy of Sciences,

14:42

the biggest scientific institution in the

14:45

USSR, to pay for an expedition

14:47

to Siberia. But due to delays

14:49

and issues with funding, he didn't

14:51

arrive in the area until October,

14:54

which was pretty bad timing since

14:56

the brutal cold was setting in.

14:58

Kuleek knew they couldn't go meteorite

15:01

hunting in the Siberian winter. So

15:03

he settled for collecting eyewitness statements

15:05

instead. He hoped they would at

15:08

least confirm the explosion actually happened

15:10

and give him an idea of

15:12

where to look. At least on

15:15

that front his mission was a

15:17

success. He learned that the impact

15:19

probably happened near one specific trading

15:21

post on the stony Tunguska River.

15:24

After the expedition was over, he

15:26

vowed to return as soon as

15:28

he could. he wanted to find

15:31

the meteorite and bring it home.

15:33

Unfortunately, it would take another six

15:35

years to fund a second expedition,

15:38

but in 1927, he finally got

15:40

the green light. This time, Kuleek

15:42

left an early spring just as

15:44

the ice was starting to thaw.

15:47

He hired a few indigenous guys

15:49

from the Evanke tribe to lead

15:51

him to the site. But as

15:54

soon as he got close to

15:56

his destination, the guides became jittery

15:58

and forced him to turn around.

16:01

When he asked why, they told

16:03

him the land they were about

16:05

to enter was cursed. This is

16:08

my first thought, like listen to

16:10

the indigenous people. If the land

16:12

is cursed, listen to them, always.

16:14

But anyhow, there's a few different

16:17

versions of the story, but one

16:19

of them goes like this. In

16:21

the years before the Tunguska event,

16:24

a particular eventki clan living in

16:26

the area used a shaman to

16:28

cast a spell on their rivals.

16:31

That shaman called an evil spirit

16:33

to give the other clan... some

16:35

kind of disease. So to return

16:37

the favor, the rival clan summoned

16:40

Ogadi, a powerful God who ruled

16:42

over Siberia, and on June 30th,

16:44

1908, the day of the event,

16:47

it said that Ogadi sent a

16:49

flock of fiery iron birds to

16:51

wreak havoc and burn the forest

16:54

down. Ever since then, many Avenki

16:56

refused to visit the area, fearing

16:58

the wrath of Ogadi. And look,

17:01

I totally get it, because y'all

17:03

know that I wouldn't be wandering

17:05

around some cursed forest in the

17:07

middle of nowhere. Well, Kulik thought

17:10

it was nothing more than superstition,

17:12

but it was a setback nonetheless.

17:14

He had to go back to

17:17

the nearest town, hire new guides

17:19

who weren't scared, and try again

17:21

a few weeks later. This time,

17:24

Kulik and his new team hiked

17:26

through streams and over rocky hills

17:28

and swamps. They followed a trail

17:30

of toppled trees until they reached

17:33

the center of the devastation. And

17:35

what he saw was, well, let's

17:37

just say you can understand why

17:40

people thought it was cursed. That's

17:42

right, because miles and miles of

17:44

pure destruction. I mean, we're talking

17:47

giant trees burnt to the core

17:49

like match sticks, yet they're still

17:51

standing. And if you guys Google

17:54

this, you will see exactly what

17:56

I'm talking about. Koolik had spent

17:58

six years dreaming of this. exact

18:00

moment. He pictured himself being

18:03

praised like a hero, posing

18:05

for pictures with the giant

18:07

metal space rock that he

18:09

believed caused this damage. But when

18:11

he finally got there, there was

18:14

no space rock, no impact site,

18:16

no crater, nothing that could

18:18

explain the damage whatsoever. As

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View important disclosures

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at acorns.com/supernatural. When

20:36

Leonid Kulik arrived at the epicenter

20:39

of Tunguska's devastation, there was no

20:41

crater or impact site, which left

20:43

him and his team completely perplexed.

20:46

Even weirder, the trees at the

20:48

very center were blackened, but somehow

20:51

still standing, almost like the shockwave

20:53

had spared them somehow. Kulik had

20:55

come for a space rock, but

20:58

with no signs of a meteorite,

21:00

he really didn't know what to

21:03

do with himself. He camped out

21:05

for weeks, taking as many samples

21:07

as he could, and when his

21:10

team ran out of food, they

21:12

turned back. Koolik had to return

21:15

to his hometown of Leningrad, which

21:17

is now St. Petersburg, empty-handed. And

21:19

frankly, he was feeling a bit

21:22

embarrassed. Just imagine being Koolik. After

21:24

spending all that time and money

21:27

making such a big deal publicly

21:29

about this expedition, he basically comes

21:31

home with his tail between his

21:34

legs. I mean, people probably thought...

21:36

He'd made the whole thing up

21:39

just for fame and attention. Even

21:41

though he had pictures of the

21:43

trees, without the meteorite, people just

21:46

said it was probably a forest

21:48

fire. But Koolik really believed there

21:50

was more out there. He just

21:53

needed more time and resources to

21:55

find it. And he kept telling

21:58

people how much money it would

22:00

be worth when he finally did.

22:02

So Koolik ends up leading more...

22:05

expeditions. First, in 1928 and 1929,

22:07

and then again in 1937, 1938,

22:10

and 1939. For each of these

22:12

outings, he brought gear for digging

22:14

trenches and taking samples. He scoured

22:17

the area with metal detectors, looking

22:19

for iron and other metals you'd

22:22

see in space debris. He even

22:24

collected dead birds and checked their

22:26

bodies for possible rock fragments they

22:29

may have eaten. But despite his

22:31

best efforts, he still came up

22:34

empty-handed. It was like the mystery

22:36

was taunting him. And time wasn't

22:38

on his side either. His investigation

22:41

was cut short the same year

22:43

as his last expedition when World

22:46

War II broke out. Kulik eventually

22:48

joined a local Soviet militia, only

22:50

to be captured by the Nazis.

22:53

And on April 24th, 1942, Kulik

22:55

died as a prisoner of war.

22:58

Koolik was well respected. He actually

23:00

has a crater on the moon.

23:02

It's on the far side and

23:05

it's called the Koolik Crater. But

23:07

even with Koolik gone, the questions

23:10

just kept coming. Like what really

23:12

happened along the Tunguska that day?

23:14

What did all of those eyewitnesses

23:17

see in 1908? theories began to

23:19

spawn. So we don't have time

23:21

to get into all of them,

23:24

but believe me, they get pretty

23:26

crazy. Things like black holes and

23:29

antimatter asteroids, stuff that would take

23:31

a whole episode to explain, and

23:33

frankly, don't hold much water in

23:36

our opinion anyways. But there's one

23:38

theory that definitely deserves a mention,

23:41

because, you guys, it's just so

23:43

cool. It says that the visionary

23:45

inventor, Nikola Tesla, accidentally blew up

23:48

Siberia, with an experimental death ray.

23:50

Okay. I love this theory, but

23:53

I have a love-hate relationship with

23:55

Tesla because my... father, since he

23:57

wasn't your dad. He didn't make

24:00

you do this. He didn't make

24:02

you do this. But he forced

24:05

me at the age, I think

24:07

I was like eight or nine,

24:09

to read Tesla's autobiography and the

24:12

autobiography of Petamansa Yogananda. But that's

24:14

a whole other episode. That I

24:17

can get behind, yes. Okay. But

24:19

basically all I remember is that

24:21

Tesla was a mad scientist. He

24:24

totally reminds me of Doc Brown

24:26

from Back to the future, right?

24:29

I mean to describe him as

24:31

a mad scientist is an understatement.

24:33

The guy really was ahead of

24:36

his time and there's so much

24:38

that he pioneered. And although he's

24:40

best known for his discoveries in

24:43

electricity, he had this super creepy

24:45

lab in Colorado Springs, Colorado. And

24:48

apparently you could hear the thunder

24:50

from his experiments 15 miles away

24:52

in the next town over. Residents

24:55

of the town... They got so

24:57

used to all the weird phenomenon

25:00

that happened near Tesla's laboratory, like

25:02

sparks jumping from the ground as

25:04

they walked by, or from a

25:07

faucet when they turned on the

25:09

tap, light bulbs lit up even

25:12

if they weren't plugged in, I

25:14

mean, all kind of crazy stuff.

25:16

Tesla's inventions laid the groundwork for

25:19

so much of the technology we

25:21

used today. Like radios, x-rays, remote

25:24

controls, smartphones, I mean, you name

25:26

it. There's so much. His most

25:28

ambitious and secretive project was a

25:31

transmission system, one that would allow

25:33

him to wirelessly beam electricity anywhere

25:36

around the world. But Tesla was

25:38

thinking even bigger if you can

25:40

believe it, because on July 10th,

25:43

1934, he told the New York

25:45

Sun that he'd invented a so-called

25:48

death beam. It was completely silent

25:50

and left no trace. Supposedly, this

25:52

machine could wipe out entire armies

25:55

in an instant, making the country

25:57

that had it invincible. Now

26:00

it's hard to say if he

26:02

actually developed this beam and it

26:04

worked because he never demonstrated

26:07

it in public. But Tesla

26:09

seemed really confident it

26:11

was a sure thing. Apparently he

26:13

even tried to get several

26:16

governments to buy it, although as

26:18

far as we know no one did.

26:20

And here's where things get really

26:22

interesting. Tesla was talking

26:25

about this beam years before

26:27

Tonguska. But he had no idea

26:29

what it was capable of yet. At

26:32

that point in time, he

26:34

just thought this device could

26:36

shoot electricity from one power

26:38

generator to another, anywhere on the

26:40

planet. And in 1908, he supposedly

26:43

got the chance to test that

26:45

theory. An American explorer

26:47

named Robert Perry was headed

26:50

from New York to the North Pole.

26:52

Tesla initially thought he could

26:54

use his device. to communicate

26:56

with Perry in real time

26:58

once he got there. Basically, he

27:00

originally saw this device as

27:02

like an old-time cell phone, right?

27:05

And as the story goes, Tesla

27:07

aimed the beam at Perry's location

27:09

and pulled the trigger. It's

27:11

unclear how Perry was supposed to

27:13

receive the energy. The sources

27:15

out there are pretty slim, but

27:17

Tesla did invent the radio, so

27:20

maybe he gave Perry one of

27:22

his smaller prototypes to take with

27:24

him. When Tesla didn't get

27:26

a response from Perry on

27:29

how his little experiment was

27:31

going, he scanned international

27:34

newspapers for anything unusual.

27:36

And that's when Tesla

27:38

supposedly read about Tunguska

27:40

and realized his device was

27:43

capable of mass destruction. It's

27:45

a cool theory, but there are

27:47

a few problems with it. We've

27:50

already talked about how the

27:52

Tunguska story... didn't really reach

27:54

international papers for more than

27:56

a decade. Even our geologist, Leonid

27:58

Kulik, who lived in Russia didn't

28:00

hear about it until 1921, which

28:03

was 13 years later. So unless

28:05

Tesla got his hands on some

28:07

remote Serbian news, I'm not sure

28:09

this one holds up. Plus, Robert

28:11

Perry hadn't even left for his

28:13

trip before that June 30th, 1908

28:15

date. He was still in New

28:18

York at the time. So if Tesla

28:20

was trying to beam electricity

28:22

to someone, it definitely was

28:24

not Perry. Okay. Do I think this

28:27

is the best theory out there?

28:29

Probably not. But it's definitely

28:31

fun to entertain. And I

28:33

can see why people gravitated towards

28:35

it early on if they were

28:37

looking for answers, because no one

28:39

besides Koolik had really tried to

28:41

do a proper investigation.

28:44

At least not until Alexander

28:46

Kazansev came on to the scene.

28:48

And he had a radical idea

28:51

that would change everything. Kazansev

28:53

was born in what is now

28:55

Kazakhstan in 1906 and trained as

28:57

an engineer. He spent World War

28:59

II helping the Soviet Union create

29:02

new weapons. But he was

29:04

fascinated with Kuleek. He followed his

29:06

adventures in the newspaper when he

29:08

was a teenager. And as he

29:11

got older, the mystery of Tunguska

29:13

still fascinated him. After learning about

29:15

the atomic bombs dropped on

29:18

Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World

29:20

War II, he thought he saw a

29:22

connection with Tunguska. And he wondered,

29:24

could that have been an atomic

29:26

bomb too? Maybe an early prototype?

29:28

It was just a hunch, but

29:30

he had to investigate it. Kazants

29:33

have new nuclear blasts

29:35

left behind unique fingerprints,

29:37

and if you know where to look,

29:39

it could prove the explosion was nuclear,

29:42

and maybe even point to

29:44

who was behind it. He

29:46

started by comparing the vibrations

29:49

produced by Hiroshima, with the

29:51

ones made after Tunguska. For

29:53

almost a century scientists all

29:55

over the world had used

29:57

the seismographs to detect earthquake

29:59

And what these listening stations

30:02

recorded in 1908 after Tunguska

30:04

was eerily similar to what

30:07

they recorded in 1945 after

30:09

Hiroshima. So, Kazansev dug deeper,

30:12

and when he saw the

30:14

photos of the charred trees

30:17

left standing in the middle

30:19

of the Tunguska blastite, his

30:22

blood ran cold. When the

30:24

bomb exploded over Hiroshima, The

30:26

shockwave spread outwards from the

30:29

center, allowing the trees directly

30:31

below the explosion to survive.

30:34

So in other words, the

30:36

charred but still standing trees

30:39

at Tunguska were proof of

30:41

a mid-air explosion, at least

30:44

to Khazantev. He poured over

30:46

thousands of first-hand accounts from

30:49

both incidents and saw similarities

30:51

there too. Many Avenki describe

30:53

seeing a brilliant flash like

30:56

a second sun. It was

30:58

so hot, one person said

31:01

his shirt almost burned off

31:03

his back. Then came a

31:06

huge tower of black smoke

31:08

that could have been a

31:11

mushroom cloud and black rain.

31:13

Detail for detail. These reports

31:16

read, just like Hiroshima. After

31:18

the dust settled, the Avenki

31:20

noticed their reindeer getting sick

31:23

with a mysterious disease. Scab

31:25

started appearing all over their

31:28

bodies, which could have been

31:30

signs of radiation poisoning. And

31:33

if the bomb exploded in

31:35

the atmosphere, it would have

31:38

filled the sky with radiation,

31:40

causing those weird spooky lights

31:43

that everyone saw all the

31:45

way back to Europe. While

31:47

the weird lights weren't reported

31:50

with Hiroshima, they had occurred

31:52

with other nuclear tests that

31:55

went off higher in the

31:57

sky. So if Kazansev was

32:00

right, that meant someone dropped

32:02

an atomic bomb on the

32:05

Soviet Union decades before they

32:07

were ever invented. That's what

32:10

the evidence seemed to point

32:12

to, but here's the thing.

32:14

The Manhattan Project, which created

32:17

the first nuclear bomb, which

32:19

was this huge feat of

32:22

engineering during World War II.

32:24

It took years, I'm talking

32:27

years and billions of dollars,

32:29

not to mention, the legit

32:32

geniuses working around the clock

32:34

to make it happen. So,

32:37

Kazanza figured if Tonguska was

32:39

nuclear. and it happened decades

32:42

before the nuclear bomb was

32:44

invented. Well, then the one

32:46

that exploded over Tunguska likely

32:49

wasn't made by humans. Which

32:51

means... Oh yeah, here we

32:54

go. It may have been

32:56

a UFO. But if you

32:59

do get sick, be prepared

33:01

for Plan B with Kleenex

33:04

lotion tissues. Kleenex lotion tissues

33:06

moist dry skin, helping prevent

33:09

the added discomfort of red,

33:11

irritated skin on top of

33:13

your cold and flu symptoms.

33:16

So this cold and flu

33:18

season, grab Kleenex Lotion tissues.

33:21

Visit kleenex.com to learn more

33:23

and buy now. For whatever

33:26

happens next, Grab Kleenex. I

33:28

don't mean cheery little bedtime

33:31

stories or cute anecdotes about

33:33

my childhood. I'm talking about

33:36

horror stories, cautionary tales, the

33:38

kind of stuff that keeps

33:40

you up at night. I'm

33:43

talking about rumors and folklore

33:45

about grizzly murders from parts

33:48

of the country you're not

33:50

used to hearing about. Creatures

33:53

with unfinished earthly business that

33:55

stalked the woods at night.

33:58

Spirits that possess children. Otherworldly

34:00

phenomena capable of inducing madness.

34:03

These are the stories that

34:05

haunt me when I'm alone

34:07

and now this is my

34:10

chance to exercise them to

34:12

get them out of my

34:15

mind and into yours. Welcome

34:17

to Runful. New episodes come

34:20

out every Tuesday. Follow Runful

34:22

wherever you get your podcast.

34:25

He thinks that the Tunguska

34:27

event was some kind of

34:30

nuclear explosion. Now as far

34:32

as we know humans didn't

34:35

have nukes back in 1908,

34:37

which meant that some other

34:39

intelligence probably made it. Maybe

34:42

someone not from our planet.

34:44

But even though the explosion

34:47

looked like an atomic bomb,

34:49

Kuzantsev still had his doubts.

34:52

After all, why would someone

34:54

want to blow up an

34:57

uninhabited patch of forest? And

34:59

why Siberia of all places?

35:02

Well he believed whoever it

35:04

was didn't do it obviously

35:06

on purpose. So Kazansev knew

35:09

it was theoretically possible to

35:11

power a spaceship using nuclear

35:14

fuel. So he wondered what

35:16

if one of these nuclear-powered

35:19

spaceships may be piloted by

35:21

extraterrestrial life blew up on

35:24

accident? If that

35:26

were true, the location actually makes

35:28

a lot of sense. If you

35:31

were an alien coming in for

35:33

a crash landing, would you aim

35:35

for a big city or somewhere

35:38

remote like Siberia? Maybe the pilots

35:40

knew they were doomed and didn't

35:42

want to take anyone out with

35:44

them. It felt like that to

35:47

Kuzantev, but he knew that he'd

35:49

get crazy looks if he came

35:51

out and said this. So in

35:54

1946, he published a work of

35:56

fiction to get this idea out

35:58

there. and to get people talking.

36:01

In his short story, he had...

36:03

scientists arguing about what might have

36:05

appeared in 1908, and one of

36:07

them floats the spaceship idea as

36:10

kind of a fun what-if, right?

36:12

The short story didn't get a

36:14

whole lot of attention, but it

36:17

impressed one of Kulik's old friends.

36:19

Yevgeny Krenov. Krenov was part of

36:21

Koolik's 1929 expedition, and this guy

36:24

is hardcore. He lost his toe

36:26

to frostbite on that trip. But

36:28

Krinov believed Kazansev was onto something

36:31

with his spaceship theory. He also

36:33

knew that a little controversy would

36:35

get more people talking about Tunguska.

36:37

Maybe he could use that to

36:40

drum up support for more research

36:42

expeditions, perhaps even finished the work

36:44

that Kuleek had started years ago.

36:47

So in 1948, Krinov helped Kazansev

36:49

turn the short story into a

36:51

play. It sounds pretty clever, too.

36:54

Kazansev would plant actors in the

36:56

audience to shout that the spaceship

36:58

theory was bogus. The other plants

37:01

would stand up and argue with

37:03

them and get real audience members

37:05

to join in. So the play

37:07

got really popular in Russia, which

37:10

annoyed a lot of scientists. Most

37:12

of them still believed it was

37:14

a meteorite that hit the ground,

37:17

and they tried to discredit Kazansev.

37:19

They didn't like that his nuclear-powered

37:21

UFO theory was catching on with

37:24

the public. The scientists didn't know

37:26

it, but Kazansev's theory also caught

37:28

the eye of some powerful people.

37:30

One of them was Levante Beria.

37:33

Now, we've covered some really creepy

37:35

things on this show. I mean,

37:37

monsters, ghosts, you name it. But

37:40

Beria was definitely worse than all

37:42

of them put together. He was

37:44

the head of the Secret Police

37:47

and Stalin's right-hand man at the

37:49

time. He also ran the Soviet

37:51

Union's atomic bomb program. As head

37:54

of the atomic program, he had

37:56

access to all sorts of classified

37:58

stuff that we will never know

38:00

about. And when he heard Kazan...

38:03

said theory, he may have believed

38:05

it. Because in 1949, he sent

38:07

a secret team of experts to

38:10

look for debris in Tongasska. If

38:12

I had to guess, I'd say

38:14

he probably wanted to reverse engineer

38:17

the crashed spaceship to make some

38:19

kind of fricking horrible new weapon.

38:21

Who knows? The mission was top

38:23

secret and we still don't have

38:26

a lot of details. But it

38:28

seems they reported back saying the

38:30

explosion was very likely caused by

38:33

a nuclear detonation. Whether they thought

38:35

it was a UFO is unclear.

38:37

But after the experts gave Barry

38:40

their report, the trail went cold.

38:42

We don't know what, if anything,

38:44

Barry chose to do with it.

38:47

And even though Barry kept those

38:49

secrets close, he couldn't stop the

38:51

growing wave of public interest in

38:53

Tunguska. And thanks to Kazantsev's writings

38:56

writings, more and more people wanted

38:58

to visit Siberia and solve the

39:00

riddle for themselves. In 1959, two

39:03

Siberian friends, an engineer and a

39:05

paranormal researcher, created what they called

39:07

the complex amateur expedition, or if

39:10

we used the Russian abbreviation KSE.

39:12

They led a bunch of grad

39:14

students, science fiction fans, and hikers

39:16

into the Siberian wilderness in search

39:19

of clues. They scoured the blast

39:21

zone with metal detectors. took lots

39:23

of photos and collected samples from

39:26

the soil. They also brought Geiger

39:28

counters to measure radiation. When they

39:30

analyzed the results, the KSE found

39:33

that the soil near the center

39:35

was slightly more radioactive than the

39:37

area around it. This would have

39:40

been one of the fingerprints of

39:42

a nuclear explosion like we mentioned

39:44

earlier. They also found a bunch

39:46

of other really odd stuff though,

39:49

like the trees nearby grew faster

39:51

after the explosion. something that also

39:53

happened after Hiroshima. Even stranger, blood

39:56

test taken from a local Evanke

39:58

family revealed a rare genetic... mutation

40:00

that only appeared in those born

40:03

after 1908. There was also a

40:05

trove of untapped data from research

40:07

stations around the world on the

40:09

day of the event. For example,

40:12

at Lake Bicall, about 800

40:14

miles from the epicenter, scientists

40:17

detected a big magnetic storm

40:19

only minutes after the explosion.

40:22

This might have been what caused

40:24

the glowing clouds seen across

40:26

Europe. If you remember from earlier,

40:28

the only things we knew that

40:31

could create a storm like that

40:33

were high altitude nuclear tests.

40:35

But here's the bottom line.

40:37

All this evidence pointed to

40:40

some kind of nuclear blast.

40:42

And apparently, Kuleek had

40:44

overlooked some of the

40:46

details from the eyewitnesses

40:49

he'd originally interviewed. Most

40:51

people said they saw something

40:53

flying overhead before the explosion.

40:56

Koolik had assumed they were

40:58

talking about a meteor, but

41:00

some of the witnesses

41:02

described something very

41:05

unmedior-like, as they described

41:07

it, a long tube or

41:09

cylinder. The fact that they could

41:11

see it so clearly was another

41:13

red flag for investigators,

41:16

because that meant it was flying

41:18

a whole lot slower than an

41:20

actual meteorite would. Like

41:23

10 to 20 times slower.

41:25

And here's the best part.

41:27

It may have changed direction

41:29

midair. Near the center of

41:31

the blast, trees toppled in

41:34

a pattern suggesting the object

41:36

was coming from the southeast.

41:38

But people southwest of the

41:41

explosion saw it pass

41:43

overhead. And the only way

41:45

it could have come from one

41:47

direction and land in another

41:49

is if someone had actually...

41:52

physically grabbed the steering wheel

41:54

in mid-flight. Or, if the amateurs who

41:56

calculated the flight plan made

41:59

a mistake. Look, you know that both

42:01

of us love a good UFO story,

42:03

but in this case, I have a

42:05

few doubts. Because while a lot of

42:07

this stuff sounds like a UFO,

42:09

none of it is 100% conclusive.

42:11

Like the radiation, for instance,

42:13

if a nuclear spaceship really did

42:16

blow up, you'd expect it to

42:18

be dropping atomic fuel all over

42:20

the place. But the amount of

42:22

radiation they found was so small

42:24

that when folks went to check again

42:27

the next year, it was all gone.

42:29

So maybe it was just

42:31

an asteroid, but it disintegrated

42:33

before it hit the ground. We

42:36

know this is possible because

42:38

it actually happened recently in

42:40

February of 2013. An asteroid the

42:43

size of a house blew up over

42:45

the Russian city of Chelybinsk.

42:47

It exploded mid-air about

42:49

14 miles up. The shockwave smashed

42:51

windows for 200 square miles

42:54

around the city and injured

42:56

more than 1600 people. It was

42:58

super bright like Tunguska and

43:00

it didn't make a crater.

43:02

Okay, fair, fair enough, but

43:05

unlike Tunguska, it did

43:07

leave some fragments behind,

43:09

and there weren't any weird

43:11

northern lights that came after,

43:13

which is why I still need more

43:15

to be sold on this asteroid

43:17

theory. To me, the nuclear-powered

43:20

UFO theory checks the

43:22

most boxes, like first and

43:25

foremost. The blast, the after

43:27

effects, the radiation, and if

43:29

the KSE figured out about the

43:31

object speed and change of direction

43:33

is true, it's pretty much the

43:36

only explanation that works

43:38

in my book. And there's no way

43:40

that some other country may have

43:43

developed a nuclear bomb and

43:45

tested it before the Manhattan

43:47

Project? And never came forward

43:50

with the results? I think that's

43:52

even less likely than the UFO

43:54

theory to be honest. If the

43:56

Soviets or any country for that

43:58

matter built and attached... atomic weapon

44:01

before the United States,

44:03

I'm sure, I'm like so, so sure

44:05

that they would have been shouting

44:07

it from the rooftops. The arms

44:10

race was just as alive and

44:12

well back then as it is

44:14

today. Okay, okay, fair. But if we

44:16

are saying UFOs, it would be

44:18

nice to have something we could

44:20

actually point to in this case,

44:22

like a piece of the ship

44:25

or something. Funny that you should

44:27

mention that. There was a

44:29

guy named Yuri Loftin who

44:31

claimed he'd found exactly that.

44:33

In 2009, he told newspapers

44:36

that he discovered court

44:38

stones near the blast

44:40

center. Supposedly, these crystals

44:43

had unusual etchings that

44:45

were just too perfect to

44:48

have been made by human

44:50

technology. Because of that, Yuri

44:52

believed it was a piece

44:55

of a control panel. Specifically...

44:57

for the ship that exploded

44:59

over Tongaska. And his own

45:01

theory was, get this, that it

45:04

had rammed into an oncoming

45:06

asteroid to save humanity. I

45:08

mean, come on y'all, talk about

45:10

a blockbuster movie franchise.

45:12

Yes, exactly like Armageddon.

45:15

And if that's the case, we should

45:17

all be truly grateful. But as

45:19

far as I can tell, he

45:22

hasn't let any actual scientists look

45:24

at the crystals at the crystals.

45:26

So all we have to go

45:29

on are his words and a

45:31

single low-res photo. All right, maybe

45:33

it's not a smoking gun,

45:36

but that's the problem

45:38

right there. I mean, whatever

45:40

did blow up over Tunguska

45:43

was totally vaporized. So when

45:45

people say it's an asteroid,

45:48

a meteorite, or a UFO,

45:50

they're basically just guessing.

45:53

Look, the universe is a

45:55

really big place. And sometimes

45:57

we think we know what's out

45:59

there. And a

46:02

mystery like

46:04

this comes

46:07

along and

46:09

shows you just

46:12

how small

46:14

we really

46:16

are. But

46:18

you know

46:21

what? Maybe

46:23

the mystery

46:25

is the best part.

46:27

You can connect with

46:29

us on Instagram at

46:31

So Supernatural Pod and

46:34

visit our website at

46:36

So Supernatural podcasts.com. Join

46:38

Yvette and me next

46:40

Friday for an all-new

46:42

episode. So what do

46:44

you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

46:47

Skipping cold and flu season is

46:49

Plan A. But if you do

46:51

get sick, be prepared for Plan

46:54

B with Kleenex Lotion tissues moist

46:56

dry skin. helping prevent the added

46:58

discomfort of red irritated skin on

47:00

top of your cold and flu

47:03

symptoms. So this cold and flu

47:05

season, grab Kleenex lotion tissues. Visit

47:07

kleenex.com to learn more and by

47:10

now. For whatever happens next,

47:12

grab Kleenex. I'm Rodney Barnes.

47:14

All my life I've been collecting stories.

47:16

I don't mean cheery little

47:18

bedtime stories of cute anecdotes

47:20

about my childhood. I'm talking

47:22

about horror stories, cautionary tales,

47:25

the kind of stuff that

47:27

keeps you up at night.

47:29

I'm talking about rumors and

47:31

folklore, about grizzly murders. From

47:33

parts of the country you're

47:35

not used to hearing about.

47:37

Creatures with unfinished earthly business

47:39

that stalked the woods at

47:41

night. Spirits that possess children.

47:43

Otherworldly phenomena capable of inducing

47:45

madness. These are the stories that

47:47

haunt me when I'm alone. And

47:49

now? This is my chance to

47:52

exercise them. To get them out

47:54

of my mind and into

47:56

yours. Welcome

48:02

to Runful. New episodes come

48:04

to Run

48:06

Full. New episodes come

48:08

out every Tuesday. Follow Run Full wherever

48:10

you get your podcast.