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mintmobile.com. Guys,

3:04

I am so excited for

3:06

today's episode. I'm here with

3:08

one of my incredibly good friends,

3:10

Sarah, who happens to

3:12

be a matchmaker. Before

3:15

we talk about matchmaking,

3:18

I just want to discuss,

3:20

I'm texting my therapist right now. I

3:22

was going to my

3:24

therapist like doing remote

3:27

sessions for two years. And

3:30

then she was like, same

3:32

one, same girl, same, same therapist.

3:34

And then in the past like

3:36

six months, she was like, if

3:39

you want to Actually get deep

3:41

and deal with like childhood trauma

3:43

and blah blah blah Let's

3:45

start doing in person. Wow.

3:48

She upgraded you to the couch. I'm

3:50

like, is that an upgrade or

3:52

a downgrade? I can't

3:55

tell. I feel like I'm kind of

3:57

going in the opposite trajectory. Like it should have

3:59

been like, okay, like you're killing

4:01

it. We can do like remote sessions.

4:03

Yeah. But no, she's we

4:05

knew off instead. She's

4:07

like, no, we need to start doing in

4:09

person. I'm like, okay. Um, should we

4:11

be going in the opposite way? Also.

4:15

I'm almost five days

4:17

vape -free. Bravo.

4:20

Okay, seriously. That's

4:23

something to shout off the

4:25

rooftops. That's exciting. It

4:27

is exciting, but I

4:29

fucking hate it. Like,

4:32

hate it. The

4:34

side of that. Yeah, the symptoms.

4:37

Which I didn't think they're... going to

4:39

be any, which is so funny because

4:41

Sarah and I had dinner two nights

4:43

ago. I feel like the

4:45

way I was acting even when

4:47

I showed up for dinner, just

4:49

a little bit of anxiety. A

4:51

little bit? Yeah. Guys, we had

4:53

a dinner reservation. I

4:56

showed up. I call Sarah,

4:58

who I know is inside of

5:00

the restaurant. I'm standing outside

5:02

on the sidewalk and I, what did

5:04

I ask her? was like, you're like,

5:07

Should we just go? And I was

5:09

like, well, first of all, I'm here. And

5:12

so I was like, OK, if

5:14

it's too slam -defined, we'll go.

5:17

And then I ran in and

5:19

like, we're going to cancel. They're

5:21

like, oh, if you cancel right now,

5:23

there's a - Right, because I called

5:25

you. Right, but I called

5:27

you. and you had to come outside of

5:29

the restaurant. Yeah, I had like the menu

5:31

in my hand and I was like, we're

5:33

ready to meet up. And then you're like,

5:35

should we just go? I'm like, okay, fine.

5:38

We go, we cancel. They're

5:40

charging your card. We walk 10

5:42

steps. And you're like, I'm holding

5:44

the fucking menu. Yeah. I

5:47

run back inside and you're like,

5:49

just kidding. We'll, we'll stay. Oh my

5:51

God. You went back inside to

5:53

drop the menu off. And

5:55

then I was like, you know what? Let's

5:57

do it here. This is actually really

5:59

good vibes. I just, I

6:02

will get a little fight

6:04

or flight. You're in your head

6:06

much. I'm not even a little. Are

6:08

you kidding? I live in

6:10

my head. I do not

6:12

live in my body, but

6:14

I do think it's being

6:16

amplified by, see,

6:18

I wanted to blame that on the babe. I

6:21

would do that if I was still vaping. I'm real.

6:24

Yeah, if there's no

6:26

babe, then it's

6:28

gonna be more curious

6:30

and retrograde. That's

6:32

why Yesterday this is

6:34

the first negative

6:36

like overwhelming negative reaction

6:39

I've had was

6:41

last night. I was

6:43

laying in bed

6:45

with my mom and

6:48

All of a sudden, I felt like

6:50

I could almost have trigger warning

6:52

a panic attack. I

6:54

came in like late on the

6:56

couch and it's like this anxiety

6:58

I've not experienced in a very

7:01

long time. That's so scary. Even

7:03

with your mom like cuddling right

7:05

next to you. My mom, I

7:07

do not cuddle. Okay. Let's

7:11

unpack that later. Yeah,

7:14

what's that psychology? I'm also gonna

7:16

text my therapist about that too.

7:19

Okay, enough about me, Sarah, because it's

7:21

not about me today. I

7:23

just have diarrhea in the mouth. You

7:25

are a matchmaker and

7:27

you work for a

7:30

matchmaking agency. Do

7:32

you know how a fucking

7:34

cool that is and how

7:36

interesting your job is? Well,

7:38

thank you. That's so

7:40

kind. I mean, I love

7:42

my team. Shout out to

7:45

Macklin. Shout out. Yeah,

7:47

I think it is one

7:49

of those professions where people are like,

7:51

wait, I've never met one. What does that

7:54

mean? How

7:56

do I get involved? 100%,

7:59

which I'm just going

8:01

to elephant in the room.

8:03

There's literally no elephant.

8:05

It's me bringing it up.

8:07

Okay. I am dating

8:09

someone who I met. through

8:11

your agency and it's

8:13

like the best relationship I've

8:15

been in. I

8:17

sincerely have seen you

8:19

come 180. We've tried

8:22

some dates. We've tried

8:24

some dates before. I

8:26

believe the first date

8:28

I went on through the

8:30

agency, it was the

8:33

most phenomenal date. The

8:35

most amazing guy. We

8:37

were talking about buying wiener

8:39

dogs and I was

8:41

just not, I think, at

8:43

that time in the right headspace.

8:46

Like, I think I was like, it was like during

8:48

a break with my ex or something. We're

8:50

going to start from the beginning. How

8:52

did you even like stumble

8:54

upon this profession? That's

8:56

the craziest thing. is true. Yeah, you don't

8:59

go to school to be a matchmaker. So

9:03

everyone has a weird journey

9:05

for me. My background

9:07

was psychology. behavioral

9:10

psychology. I worked in that for

9:12

a couple years, and then I

9:14

was making no money. So that's

9:16

the hard part. And then I

9:18

pivoted to recruiting. Oh,

9:20

so I did exactly recruiting. You're

9:23

going out there like

9:25

networking, finding CEOs, and

9:27

there's like an overlap. I love it.

9:30

You're like, you know, finding CEOs for like Fortune

9:32

500 companies. It was just like, it was kind

9:34

of like whatever. That's like.

9:37

That's almost the exact parallel

9:39

with matchmaking. It's psychology

9:41

driven, it's recruiting

9:43

driven, and it kind

9:45

of fell into place. So COVID

9:47

hit. I'm down in

9:49

Australia. I don't know if you remember, I

9:51

missed you and Ali's birthday in Palm Springs

9:54

because I was trapped. That was the worst

9:56

birthday of my life. Not because of the

9:58

company. I loved everyone there. I

10:00

was not in a good headspace.

10:02

Also, the people that owned

10:04

the Airbnb were staying in the

10:06

house. Like literally staying in

10:08

like the guest house, which was

10:11

connected to the main house, like

10:13

watching a swim and shit.

10:15

I'm like, okay, so this is

10:17

more like... Wait, did they

10:19

not say that in the review?

10:21

Fuck no. Hell

10:24

no. No. We

10:26

were, we were like all in the pool and I

10:28

think all of a sudden we like looked to

10:30

the side. Granted, we were

10:32

being inappropriate but not loud

10:34

inappropriate inappropriate like if you

10:36

rent an arabian bee you should

10:38

be able to you know

10:40

partake in whatever drugs alcohol you

10:43

want like i paint to

10:45

stay palm springs is like at

10:47

9 59 like turn off

10:49

the lights go to bed well

10:51

now i really know that

10:53

now now looking back because my

10:55

idea of palm springs is

10:57

coachella yeah so that's not accurate

11:00

by the way So

11:02

you didn't miss out. Okay. Well, makes me

11:04

feel a little better because I was

11:06

trapped in Australia during COVID, which was like

11:08

the creepiest time. And then I was

11:10

losing my recruiting job and trying to like

11:12

figure out what am I going to

11:14

do with my life? Have you heard of

11:17

icky guy? No. It's

11:19

like the Japanese principle

11:21

on purpose. And it's like

11:23

something I'm so obsessed with. I like preach

11:25

it. So I You did exercise,

11:27

like, what are your passions? What are you

11:29

good at? What can make a change in

11:31

the world? And how can you make money? Fell

11:34

onto matchmaking. It was like,

11:37

it was like the ah -ha,

11:39

epiphany moment. And I was

11:41

just like, good. Made a

11:43

website and I became a

11:45

matchmaker. I

11:47

was like, I'm gonna make

11:49

a website and that was

11:51

what I do. So that's

11:53

like, manifestation. You mentally manifested

11:55

it. No one gave me

11:58

the permission. I just told

12:00

myself I am a matchmaker.

12:02

I love that you're saying

12:04

that. I manifested my entire

12:06

career, by the way. Yeah.

12:08

Overnight. Overnight. Love it.

12:10

What? It's called icky guy?

12:13

Yeah, honestly, I might be spelling it

12:15

wrong. Iki kai or icky kai. I'll

12:18

send you the link. Okay, you're gonna send me

12:20

the link. That's like me saying. It's

12:23

choppin' me as I'm sorry. No, I love it,

12:25

but that's also so much of me being like,

12:27

I just really want to do, like, wasabi

12:29

in my apartment. And it's like,

12:31

bitch. Wabi -sabi? Like,

12:33

what are we talking about?

12:38

But I love the whole

12:40

concept. Like, you know, you

12:42

take pride in you actually celebrate

12:44

imperfections. That is an interior. That's

12:46

actually not interior decorating. That's just

12:48

like a whole lifestyle. Oh, you're

12:50

talking about kitsumi or it has

12:52

the crack. Is that

12:54

okay? You're pretending you don't know.

12:57

You do know. Yeah,

13:01

look, you are you sure

13:04

you don't mean I'm like,

13:06

okay. So basically you

13:08

were in the depths of despair,

13:10

which I think a lot of us

13:12

are during COVID. Exactly.

13:14

You're like, what am I doing

13:16

with my life? Major, major pivots.

13:18

Um, and yeah, was like,

13:20

I'm rolling with this. I'm going

13:22

to be a matchmaker. I got

13:25

certifications for coaching and then I

13:27

just started putting it on social

13:29

media, finding clients. So I was.

13:31

solopreneur for a hot minute, just

13:33

like doing it independently. What

13:36

a badass. I mean

13:38

badass, but also broke

13:40

ass. You

13:43

know what I know? Sometimes

13:45

very few money. Go hand in

13:47

hand. In your case, I think

13:49

it did. Yeah. I

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15:58

I found matchmaking. I had

16:00

a lot of skills in recruiting

16:02

and psychology Oh, actually like

16:04

a lot of other matchmakers. I

16:07

had a success doing it

16:09

with friends like naturally I was

16:11

connecting people Of

16:13

course, work related, socially related, like

16:15

bringing groups of friends together. But

16:17

I had two friends, both named Caitlin.

16:19

So if you're Caitlin, you should for

16:21

sure know me. They

16:24

met their now husbands. OK.

16:26

And that was just like, OK, well. I

16:29

mean, that in itself is huge. That

16:31

in itself was like the motivation where

16:33

was like, I could get paid for

16:35

this now. Right. So I had that.

16:37

It is it is like very. psychology

16:41

based, right? Yeah.

16:43

So at Macklin specifically, my

16:46

business partner, Rachel Macklin, who founded

16:48

it, she is a psychologist, which

16:50

is like amazing. Like that

16:52

ethos aligned with me. We connected.

16:54

I connected with her team

16:57

on LinkedIn. So

16:59

you don't have a

17:01

LinkedIn. I

17:03

used to. But what

17:05

am I gonna, like, you could just

17:07

type my name in. I feel like

17:09

that's... I kind of really want one,

17:12

because you know what? Every time I

17:14

try to stalk, I

17:16

can't because I don't have a

17:18

LinkedIn profile. What if I just

17:20

said I'm here to stalk? That's

17:22

what it's for. Professional stalker is your job.

17:24

No, you should, yeah. I'll help you. Okay.

17:26

Well, I mean, you built a website. I

17:28

can only imagine what your LinkedIn Well, I

17:31

mean, I used to be a recruiter, so

17:33

I lived on LinkedIn. Right. So

17:35

did she reach out or

17:37

you came across her profile? So

17:39

the amazing thing about matchmaking too,

17:41

it's a lot of women led

17:43

business. And again, like

17:45

I was on my own independent.

17:48

You're kind of limited by your own.

17:50

social networks, and if you're

17:52

running a whole operation by

17:55

yourself, you can't support as

17:57

many people. And again,

17:59

I was probably attracting kind

18:01

of quote, lower priced,

18:03

lower range things that wasn't

18:05

really paying my bills. Well,

18:07

but also you're like 20. Yeah,

18:10

I was 20. Seven,

18:12

28. Oh, I was saying you're 20

18:14

something right now. I'm not kidding. I

18:17

literally forgot what you told me

18:19

at dinner. So you were

18:21

in your 20s at time. I

18:23

was in my 20s. Right. So

18:25

when we connected, it all lined.

18:27

I saw that they were leading

18:29

their matchmaking based on values, all

18:32

psychology -driven principles. It

18:35

really resonated with me. And they were international. And

18:38

I was like, Yes. Yeah.

18:41

So it was so fun. Like I

18:43

run the California office. We have an

18:45

office here in New York. So that's

18:47

where I'm visiting. And then our headquarters

18:50

are in London. That's

18:52

a flex. That's a fucking flex.

18:55

So when you

18:57

say that

18:59

matchmaking, there's like

19:01

these principles, right, that

19:03

are based on psychology. How

19:05

do you decide who will be a

19:07

good match? Like that is

19:10

so fascinating to me. A

19:12

lot goes into what makes a good

19:14

match, right? It's like a loaded question

19:16

because people will say like, oh my

19:18

gosh, who's my match and it's like

19:20

I met you one second ago. I'm

19:24

sorry. So when we

19:27

get to know our clients,

19:29

we'll know everything about them.

19:31

And that's the juicy like

19:33

unpacking their upbringing, knowing about

19:35

all their career, their social

19:37

circles, their belief systems with

19:39

like religion, politics,

19:41

finances. You

19:44

guys are very thorough. So

19:46

thorough. It's like, it's basically

19:48

a therapy session. It is.

19:51

I remember, I don't think

19:53

you asking the questions. I

19:56

think someone else, which is probably

19:58

better, right? Because we, it would be

20:00

biased. You'd be like, she's my

20:02

friend. She's gonna fucking kill it. And

20:05

no one deserves her. So

20:07

actually just throw her profile out.

20:10

Everyone's too, no one's good enough.

20:12

Sorry. This profile is

20:14

just to look at not to

20:16

actually touch. You're like, actually don't even

20:18

put her in the system. I'm just

20:20

kidding. But. I remember they were

20:23

asking, it was so

20:25

thorough. I remember at the time

20:27

being like, wait, this

20:29

is more in detail than

20:31

a job interview. But now

20:33

I got it. Yeah, I remember

20:35

you were taking like, you had your

20:37

laptop off, you were like taking two

20:39

hours to like, sit down and like,

20:41

type it all out. Yeah, you,

20:43

I appreciate it. You actually give to

20:46

them. I. I think I give to

20:48

damn a little too much. Is that right?

20:50

Gave a damn? I love how I just

20:52

run with it too. I'm like, I give

20:54

to damn a little too much. You

20:58

cared. But that's the

21:00

difference between dating apps, right? Like how

21:02

many people just half ass? That

21:04

right and like it's pretty

21:06

basic surface level considerations and

21:08

super low barrier to entry

21:10

like anyone I don't knock

21:12

the dating apps like that's

21:15

I think since 2015 the

21:17

number one way people are

21:19

connecting because social interactions are

21:21

on the decline and online

21:23

interactions are ever like growing

21:25

growing exactly that kind of

21:27

worries me a little bit

21:30

Yeah, there's a, I always think of it, it's

21:32

still a tool. Online

21:34

dating is just a way to access and

21:36

meet people. So people

21:38

need to be more informed on

21:40

how to use them better, be

21:42

more intentional. And there's

21:45

only going to be, there's going to be

21:47

a lot more growing niches to, there's

21:49

like gutsy dating for all

21:51

those like gluten -free girlies

21:53

out there. Sarah? You're

21:56

lying right now. Any niche?

21:58

in your mind, you will

22:00

find. We have Ali on

22:02

there. She's

22:04

wifed up. I know. Ali

22:06

is fully wifed up, but she is

22:09

gluten free. She's the first Celiax. She's

22:11

like the OG Celiax. She

22:13

is an OG Celiax. The

22:15

amount of times I ask

22:17

her if rice has gluten

22:19

by to this day. Do

22:22

you remember? every time so

22:24

it does not by the

22:26

way guys rice does not

22:28

have gluten but didn't you

22:30

guys work out that sushi's

22:32

place together i literally we

22:34

became friends at a sushi

22:36

restaurant i watched her eat

22:38

rice for like three years

22:40

straight i remember this how

22:42

do you not remember this

22:45

okay I

22:48

just think carb, gluten. You

22:51

know what I mean? That's

22:53

fair. That's true. But rice is

22:55

very different than bread, flour.

22:59

We're here first. We

23:01

do ask dietary needs when we set

23:03

up dates, by the way. It's such a

23:05

thing. Wait, actually? Yeah,

23:08

we set up the whole day.

23:10

So that's another like perk with matchmaking

23:12

is people have a

23:14

hard time getting off the apps

23:16

and actually meeting like things fall

23:18

through. Everyone's too busy. And that's

23:20

like the number one excuse. Right.

23:23

Also the number one reason people

23:25

come to matchmaking. It's like, I

23:27

have no time. I value my

23:29

time. I don't want to waste

23:31

my time. So when you do

23:33

that, you want to outsource the

23:36

work. And that's where people come

23:38

to matchmaking. Which I think is

23:40

I'm obviously a full -on

23:42

believer now, hi, that's my life

23:44

now. But I think

23:46

like, would you say

23:48

there's a stigma with a

23:50

matchmaking service? I feel like

23:52

there's even a stigma with

23:55

dating apps. Like sometimes people

23:57

don't, they want to

23:59

pretend it just all happens organically,

24:01

which I said earlier, like,

24:03

that's kind of scary that, you

24:05

know, online is on the

24:07

rise and in person is, on

24:09

the decline, but at the same

24:11

time, my ex, who

24:14

I dated for four

24:16

or five years, we

24:18

met on a dating app. I

24:20

will not shout out because I do

24:22

not like them. Yeah,

24:24

I think you also got me blocked

24:26

on there too by affiliation. So

24:28

thanks for that. I forgot to tell

24:30

you. Sarah. Sarah,

24:34

you were my invite. You were

24:36

my invite. And I owe you

24:38

and everyone. told you to put

24:40

me as your invite. I don't

24:42

know. That was a poor decision

24:44

on my part. OK, but also

24:46

it's trash. Yeah. That's the thing.

24:49

It's like even if you have

24:51

exclusive people on the app, the

24:53

outcome does not change. No.

24:55

Right? Like their intentionality

24:57

could still. Well,

24:59

and I heard it's like going downhill. But

25:02

with Macklin, you

25:04

guys, I mean, you

25:07

guys talking about all

25:09

the matchmakers, you guys,

25:11

but literally masters, like

25:13

you guys have degrees in

25:15

psychology and it's a serious

25:17

fucking thing. It is exciting.

25:20

It's so great because, you

25:22

know, a lot of

25:24

people that pursue psychology degrees,

25:26

you think therapy, right?

25:28

Like that's kind of the

25:30

the lane that you follow, you

25:32

do research, you do clinical

25:34

practice, but now there's a

25:36

whole lane for love and relationships

25:39

and a little bit more on

25:41

the uplifting positive sides. Obviously

25:43

relationships can be heavy too. We

25:46

ride the roller coaster with

25:48

our clients. We feel the highs

25:50

and then we also feel

25:52

the lows because we're really intimately

25:54

involved with our clients. I

25:56

mean, okay. We

25:58

are No, that

26:03

didn't sound of course.

26:05

I mean everything. Yeah, you're

26:07

I mean you're Setting

26:09

people up with potentially their

26:11

life partner. Correct. You're

26:13

gonna have to have intimate

26:15

conversations Which is I

26:17

did not think of that

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27:35

is a little bit

27:38

of a therapy -ish role,

27:40

a tiny bit? Or

27:42

no? Like, subconsciously,

27:44

we're infusing that in

27:46

the service, maybe whether the

27:48

client wants that or

27:51

not. I think... clients embrace

27:53

it and they're growth -minded,

27:55

they're like the most

27:57

successful clients because they're purposely

27:59

coming to us because

28:01

they trust that we're the

28:03

experts. So they're

28:06

willing to hear out

28:08

our advice. Expertise. Expertise

28:10

and like, okay, whatever you might have

28:12

been doing in the past, maybe it didn't

28:14

lead you to success. So

28:16

trust a little bit with us.

28:19

We're still giving people agency

28:21

and choice with who they

28:24

want to pursue and me. But

28:27

throughout the experience, like if

28:29

they're dating, we can get the

28:31

feedback. And that part

28:33

is so interesting because that's

28:35

where I feel that that

28:37

actually helps with the magic

28:39

of helping people. match

28:43

for them? Yeah, finding what's

28:45

working, what's not working, and

28:48

then encouraging them to

28:50

explore it or reflecting

28:52

on what we could

28:54

do differently and adjust

28:56

through that search. You

28:59

know, so many times people

29:01

look for chemistry, like how many

29:03

times do people say like

29:05

spark to you? The old me

29:07

who was not as educated

29:09

and as beautiful and smart as

29:11

I am now, which was

29:13

two months ago. I

29:15

thought chemistry

29:17

and like fireworks

29:19

meant love,

29:21

real connection. Now

29:24

I'm realizing like,

29:27

absolutely not. I

29:29

mean, you can't completely just

29:31

say like, oh, chemistry not

29:33

necessary. I love

29:35

how I'm literally talking like the matchmaker. Attraction

29:38

is important, you guys. I

29:40

think a baseline attraction is

29:42

important. You can't have a

29:45

full disregard for attraction, but

29:47

it grows. And

29:49

when you're, I'll tell this

29:51

to clients too, and matches

29:53

like both sides of the date.

29:55

If you're looking for that and

29:57

you're like looking out for sparks,

29:59

you're a little bit stressed and

30:01

your body is nervous and you're

30:03

thinking that signals you like someone,

30:05

but it's, yeah, that's not really

30:07

the signals you should be feeling

30:10

and thinking. You would want, you

30:12

want to feel calm. You

30:14

want to feel at

30:16

peace. Well, and if

30:18

you step away from a

30:20

date, like even mild, neutral to

30:22

positive, you should go in

30:24

a second. date with that person.

30:26

That is fascinating.

30:28

So literally goes,

30:31

what? No, that's

30:33

actually fascinating. Yeah, it's

30:35

being a bit more intuitive. Right.

30:37

With yourself about it,

30:39

rather than letting the

30:41

emotions take over and

30:43

feeling like, oh, if

30:45

it wasn't immediate, it's

30:47

not for me. Right.

30:49

I don't know if. Do

30:52

you know Logan Uri? She's a

30:54

really great dating coach on socials and

30:56

she's kind of part of the

30:58

matchmaking community. But she works

31:00

at Hinge and one of

31:02

her studies at Hinge was that

31:05

nearly like 30 to 40

31:07

percent of people who are in

31:09

happy relationships would not have

31:11

swiped on their partner. I'm

31:14

not seeing that. I

31:17

wouldn't have, but

31:20

I am totally fine

31:22

saying like, I

31:24

wouldn't have swiped right, left,

31:26

whatever the kids are fucking

31:28

swiping. I wouldn't have to

31:30

try. Is it up? No,

31:32

is it? trying to flick

31:34

it up for like an hour or

31:36

so. I'm like, do I

31:38

need to turn off the automatic lock and

31:40

put my phone horizontal? Is that how

31:42

we do it? To

31:46

me, it wasn't obvious,

31:48

especially just with pop

31:50

culture and watching movies.

31:53

I grew up thinking

31:55

love is someone you're

31:57

about to get on

32:00

a flight and someone

32:02

has to run to

32:04

the airport, jump over

32:06

security. you know, push

32:08

people out of the way, literally

32:11

tell the flight attendant to fuck

32:13

off, tell the pilot to get away.

32:15

The only way that's true love. And

32:18

he's screaming down the aisle of the

32:20

plane and be like, I love you,

32:22

marrying me. And have their name tattooed.

32:32

and your name

32:35

tattooed in

32:37

crazy letters and

32:40

it takes

32:42

up half of

32:44

their leg. That

32:47

was love. And not

32:49

only is singing out love like,

32:51

is that not love though? That's

32:53

a joke, but that's actually how

32:55

I would think about it, you

32:57

know? It's like these grand gestures.

33:00

Of course, yeah. I think

33:02

people take these one -off

33:04

scenarios. And when

33:07

really like a healthy relationship should

33:09

be sustaining, there should be, you

33:11

know, occasional ebbs and flows. But

33:13

for the most part, you want

33:15

your relationship to be stable, comfort,

33:17

and safe, and secure. And

33:20

secure. They're like, boys, be

33:22

secure. Let me ask you this. There

33:26

is not an

33:28

initial, overwhelming

33:30

attraction. Like

33:33

if you go on a date,

33:35

and I'm talking third person, if you

33:37

go on a date and you

33:40

go home, I had a

33:42

friend ask me, oh, is

33:44

he the one? And

33:46

I remember thinking to myself

33:48

like, I guess no.

33:50

I guess if he was the one

33:52

I would know, but I don't even

33:54

really know him. Is

33:57

that a bad sign?

34:00

No, just like we said, if

34:02

you feel I enjoyed myself, I'm

34:05

curious. I

34:07

feel like he was a good person.

34:10

Maybe I'm not there with my

34:12

attraction. Second date for

34:14

a hands down. At least, why

34:16

not? I think there's more things

34:18

leaning yes than no. And

34:20

in that time, you

34:22

can build attraction. I

34:24

said this to my friend earlier

34:26

too, where it's like the hottest people

34:29

can have, I think you know

34:31

this, hottest people, ugliest personalities. And

34:33

that, not always, but

34:35

sometimes. Then to

34:37

me, that just drops way down. An

34:40

average. person

34:42

that has confidence,

34:44

that's respectful, that

34:47

makes you laugh, becomes

34:49

a done, right? Easy,

34:51

easy. So even if it's

34:53

just your unsure, and

34:56

then look where you are now. And so

34:58

if you're unsure, but

35:00

you know they're a good person, go

35:03

on a second date. Yeah. And

35:05

then take it from there. Yeah. Interest

35:08

line, value seamal line, your goal seamal

35:10

lines. Hopefully with matching,

35:12

we've already kind of thus set out

35:14

a little bit in advance for

35:16

you too. So things should be somewhat

35:18

more streamlined when we set you

35:20

guys up. I need

35:23

to know for

35:25

my profile. I'm

35:29

like, can you update it? single

35:32

right now, not that we're talking

35:34

about it. That was a horrible

35:36

joke. I'm kidding. I've never been

35:38

so happy and so secure in

35:40

a relationship in my life. I

35:42

was telling Sarah at dinner, I

35:44

was like, I was

35:46

first of all, like, shocked. Second

35:49

of all, in

35:51

the best way. Because you

35:53

like to joke about it, which

35:56

is fine. Like you mask

35:58

your feelings with jokes. Big time.

36:00

But that's okay. We love

36:02

that about you. But

36:05

then you're being so serious.

36:07

You're like, he

36:10

makes me feel safe.

36:13

You know, I can talk to him about

36:15

all my things. He challenges me. Yes.

36:20

You know, the transformation is

36:22

just like... This is why

36:24

I do this. That's so

36:26

crazy because I feel like

36:29

you've seen me through a

36:31

couple relationships. Yeah. And

36:33

you've seen how I've been made

36:35

to remember. seen the smashed

36:37

laptop era. Shut up.

36:39

Remember? You did?

36:41

Yes. I was there that night.

36:44

Oh, so you've been. Yeah.

36:46

Back when? Back when. So

36:48

when I tell you guys, I

36:50

have seen it to information. Like

36:53

no other. This

36:56

is incredible. And I'm honestly so happy

36:58

for you. Okay, why do I feel like

37:00

crying? I know I was getting emotional

37:02

at dinner. I was like, are you serious?

37:05

That's so exciting. The way that

37:07

I talk about my relationship

37:09

now, I feel like is a

37:11

different person than I've ever

37:13

talked about a relationship. Yeah,

37:16

that's huge for my profile.

37:20

You just want to like kind of spruce

37:22

it up. You build a West. You

37:24

just want to. But how,

37:26

like, are there

37:28

like key words or

37:30

histories or, you

37:33

know, this person grew

37:35

up this way. So

37:38

they would totally vibe with someone

37:40

who grew up this way. A

37:42

little bit. I know it's

37:45

a whole science and there's

37:47

so much. Yeah, no, that's a

37:49

good question. There's there's a

37:51

mix of we do need to

37:53

find like the basic demographics, ages,

37:55

locations. Attraction is

37:57

like a bit of a gauge

37:59

for us too. But then

38:01

we need to go into the

38:03

more qualitative things about her

38:05

values and his values, his lifestyle

38:08

and her lifestyle. And then,

38:10

you know, long term. is

38:12

a someone that's open to date

38:14

people in other places. That's

38:17

a real consideration.

38:19

A big consideration.

38:22

A strong consideration. But

38:24

yeah, ultimately if they

38:26

exhibit like this person

38:28

is fun, this person

38:31

is independent, this

38:33

person is beautiful

38:35

and funny. Check,

38:38

check, check, check. Then we come

38:40

to you. give

38:42

you the rundown, and you're

38:44

like, yeah, great, let's give it a go. And

38:47

so, yeah, we kind of get

38:49

that joint agreement from both people. So

38:52

they all feel aligned. love, by

38:54

the way. Yes. Like, it was never

38:56

like, okay, you know, this guy

38:58

is incredible. Go on a date. It was,

39:01

this guy is about this. Does

39:03

that feel good to you?

39:05

Like that's fucking dope like

39:07

that's cool, you know your

39:10

choice to say yes or

39:12

no, and I'm glad you

39:14

Gave it a yes even

39:16

though on if it was

39:18

a swipe situation you might

39:20

have been like nah But

39:22

hearing it about hearing about

39:24

that person maybe actually. Yeah,

39:26

actually that is That is

39:28

a really interesting point because

39:30

on a dating app I

39:32

actually would just swipe. It's

39:34

so easy to dismiss like

39:37

a whole person. Right.

39:39

Like in .5 seconds.

39:41

Right. And it's

39:43

like at the end of

39:45

the day, the, you called it

39:47

base level of attraction is

39:49

so important, but nowhere near as

39:51

important as these other things

39:53

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41:06

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41:08

you know better for

41:10

your client? 100.

41:13

No, I'm just kidding. You're

41:16

like, I actually wrote your, I

41:19

threw your profile in the incinerator

41:21

and I wrote it for you.

41:23

No, honestly, a lot of, a

41:25

lot of clients, it's really just

41:27

helping guide them to their own

41:29

answers. We're just like

41:31

facilitating the questions and they're

41:33

having their own aha moments. Like

41:35

you really can't force feed

41:37

what we think is right for

41:40

you until they accept. Oh

41:42

yeah, that is right for me.

41:44

So it's a dance, you

41:46

know, maybe trial everything that they

41:48

want, if it works out

41:50

great, if it doesn't. Okay, now

41:52

let us take the lead

41:55

and show you all the possibilities.

41:57

Right, right. And it can

41:59

be hard because, you

42:01

know, the people that I

42:04

work with particularly are

42:06

so accomplished, smart,

42:08

successful. people

42:11

that strong personality strong personalities

42:13

or they have just excelled

42:15

in all other Areas of

42:17

their life and this is

42:19

a harder thing to maybe

42:22

feel like someone might know

42:24

better But it's it's like

42:26

a Joint team effort like

42:28

we're consulting you we're giving

42:31

you advice and they make

42:33

the they make the choice

42:35

So when they're successfully matched,

42:37

it's ultimately because of them.

42:39

We're just like the conduit

42:42

to it and just kind

42:44

of slowly guiding them because

42:46

I mean attraction aside like

42:48

on paper and and you

42:51

know we're gonna call him

42:53

we're gonna call my man

42:55

Steven I always mix it

42:57

up every fucking recording and

42:59

you guys are keeping track

43:02

right what was it last

43:04

week Jay Jacques Jacques is

43:06

very sadding a little. Oh,

43:08

we're going like European. Yeah,

43:11

he is European. So

43:13

Jacques, otherwise known

43:15

as Stephen, obviously, those

43:17

are used interchangeably. He

43:20

said he was like on

43:22

paper. It didn't

43:24

automatically make sense.

43:27

But I'm so glad that we were

43:29

on a date. You

43:31

guys are kind of good at what you

43:33

do. I'm not sure what you mean. I

43:35

love it. I love it. I think that

43:37

is the beauty of matchmaking is sometimes it's

43:39

like unorthodox. Give it a go. If

43:43

not, at least you went on,

43:45

you met someone meaningful and then

43:47

we can move on to the

43:49

next. But it sounds like this

43:52

one was spot on. Do

43:54

you know who? I

43:59

do know

44:01

you very well.

44:04

Okay, I

44:06

tried to match

44:08

Okay, the tea

44:10

we're going to

44:12

add it that name

44:14

around to add

44:16

a job I'm joking

44:18

but she when

44:20

I would watch the

44:22

show circa early

44:24

2000s She would have

44:27

these rules like no sleeping

44:29

on a first day. Yes,

44:31

no dressing like this Right

44:33

like all of these specific

44:35

things wear a dress wear

44:38

heels. What are you doing

44:40

like? Like

44:42

archaic well

44:46

Good for her, like she has

44:48

her strategy. Yeah, not

44:50

my strategy. Whatever type of

44:53

matchmaker you work with, I feel like

44:55

fits your personality. Okay. So

44:57

if they, you

45:00

know, just want to be told, this is

45:02

how you do it. spread your legs. Do

45:04

not spread your legs for married men. That

45:06

is a real housewives reference. This

45:08

is real housewives of

45:10

Atlanta. Yeah, I think

45:13

it would be like.

45:15

This person is a ton. You're

45:18

a seven. So

45:20

you can't match. It was harsh

45:22

in your face. I think we're

45:24

a bit more like gentle. Also

45:28

a little progressive. We're

45:32

not all in a scale.

45:34

Dresses don't make you a certain

45:36

way. I feel that. There's

45:40

a method to her approach.

45:43

There's a method to our

45:45

approach Yeah, I would

45:47

say that again. Well, we

45:49

probably focus on just different

45:51

things that I think make

45:53

it more meaningful right then

45:55

the average person outdated version

45:57

because honestly matchmaking is Century

45:59

years old. It's like Indian

46:02

matchmaking Jewish matchmaking. We're not

46:04

We're not creating matchmaking, we're reinventing

46:06

it, having a different angle

46:09

and approach. So it's been happening

46:11

in cultures for hundreds of

46:13

years. It used to just

46:15

be this girl and this guy

46:17

are the same age in the

46:19

same city and single. Boom. Soulmate.

46:23

Hello. Because there was no

46:25

abs. It was like the only way you knew.

46:28

And if you heard it from a friend

46:30

and a family member, they're like, okay,

46:32

well, let's... vetted. That

46:34

was like all you needed. That's

46:37

perfect. Are

46:39

there any people

46:41

that are

46:43

that tend to

46:45

get matched

46:47

more frequently? Like

46:50

do you have any just

46:52

like vets like through the system

46:54

that you're like this guy

46:56

he will match with the next

46:58

20 people like the realm

47:00

in the room like It's

47:04

like boxing you guys, it's

47:06

very similar. Yeah, I

47:08

think there are people

47:10

internally, we would call it

47:12

like high matchability. Because

47:14

they are just a little bit more, not

47:17

relatable, but adaptable in

47:19

you. Yeah, they have open

47:21

-minded preferences. They're interested

47:23

to get to know a

47:26

wider range of people. But

47:28

maybe doing that allows them to

47:30

get exposure to a lot of

47:32

different types of plants matches, but

47:34

maybe it also makes it a

47:36

little bit harder to pinpoint with

47:38

the one right match because ultimately

47:40

we only send you on a

47:42

couple of dates and those couple

47:44

of dates is the right one.

47:47

So that kind of like

47:49

almost intertwines with what

47:51

happens on online dating. Except

47:53

you guys have a success

47:55

rate of a hundred and fifty

47:57

percent. I need a fast

47:59

statistic, okay, Sarah didn't say that,

48:01

but... I think it's genius.

48:03

I help with online dating workshops

48:05

just to like empower people

48:07

how to be better online. But

48:10

what my correlation there is is

48:12

you can get on a lot

48:14

of dates through the apps when

48:16

you have your parameters wide open.

48:19

There's the... Backside to

48:21

that is it's not a

48:23

popular econtest. We're not

48:25

trying to attract everyone

48:27

and anyone. It's not

48:29

like a brag. To be like,

48:31

okay, so I'm going on some new

48:33

dates this week. I don't have

48:35

a year or two. Yeah. So it's

48:37

like, okay, if you open up

48:39

all the parameters, great. But

48:42

at some point you need to

48:44

be someone more selective and a

48:46

little bit more winning your criteria. You

48:48

don't have to do that necessarily with

48:50

being like six foot only. Also

48:53

I got on. Oh my, Sarah.

48:55

How many girls is

48:58

that like a deal

49:00

breaker? Like

49:02

a high percentage, 90 %?

49:04

There's more and more women

49:06

who could know short

49:08

keys like good husbands. Only

49:11

like 15 % of men are

49:13

over six foot. So we need

49:15

to, are you joking? Yeah. I've

49:18

never heard that much.

49:21

Got, you know, but you're guys. They

49:24

all did, not all of them

49:26

at all. Okay,

49:28

Allie, once again, like Allie's glue

49:31

-free. This is also what Allie

49:33

likes, interfered men. That

49:35

was a huge, that's the first thing

49:37

that she'll know. I look for the,

49:39

like, what is her face doing? Yeah,

49:41

you know, that's part of her attraction.

49:44

Well, a lot of people have that.

49:46

That's an easy push for me.

49:48

I'm always like, okay, why does their

49:50

hike? Why is that fundamental to

49:52

your happiness? If

49:54

you're a

49:57

5 -11

49:59

early, sure. All

50:01

right, that's fair enough, right?

50:03

Thank you. Yes,

50:05

so the problem with online dating

50:07

is people don't know how to

50:09

optimize their profiles. They don't know

50:12

how to market themselves, and they

50:14

don't know really how wide or

50:16

narrow to be on their preferences. So,

50:19

you're a genius. You

50:21

are. You just said

50:23

that you will do workshops.

50:27

What are those workshops into? Because I

50:29

get a lot of people listening. I

50:32

get asked all the time, my

50:34

dean profile, I can

50:36

tell. Is that something you'll discuss?

50:39

A lot of times, especially clients, when

50:41

they come to us, they're probably ditching

50:43

the alks. Is there over it? But

50:45

they want contact to look at what

50:47

have you been doing, and then we'll

50:49

see their app, and we're just like,

50:51

oh my gosh. No

50:53

wonder. But

50:55

they're amazing, but

50:58

they don't know. First

51:00

of all, men's pictures

51:02

are scary. They're

51:05

scary. I don't blame

51:07

them, but like... really

51:09

crazy. So, pictures

51:12

are important. They're not

51:14

everything, but you need recent

51:16

pictures, like the face,

51:18

the body. Stop trying to

51:20

have body weights too. I've

51:23

always thought this. Yes.

51:26

You be you. And I

51:28

feel like if you're, it's the same

51:30

if I was scrolling through a

51:32

dating app and I could only see

51:34

the clavicle and above. of

51:36

someone I probably would not

51:38

feel comfortable like going on a

51:41

date. I'd go to what's,

51:43

you know? I think it would

51:45

be worse if there was

51:47

a dude who knew exactly how

51:49

to take like the fire

51:51

picture. Sure, sure. Like to like

51:53

get rated or something. They

51:56

have like the angle

51:58

and they go to look.

52:00

That's terrifying. But it's

52:02

also terrifying like you're like

52:04

a Centaur like I

52:06

don't know if you're like

52:08

half horse on the bottom like

52:10

what do we do they

52:12

just They have sunglasses on old

52:14

tying or hats or Near

52:16

selfies gym selfies like just a

52:18

normal girl photo Let's bring

52:20

it back. So photos are a

52:22

thing There's a small rule

52:25

that I advocate for 70 30

52:27

in terms of like talk

52:29

about yourself 70 % of the

52:31

tide and 30 % what? you're

52:33

wanting to match and language should

52:35

also have positives vibrations rather

52:37

than like if you are under

52:39

six that don't message me

52:41

right like up which is rude

52:43

or you know any anything

52:45

um yeah it's no negative really

52:47

you can just literally write

52:49

the opposite right things in a

52:51

positive tornado oh interesting yeah

52:53

just like a bit like i'm

52:55

not looking for this it's

52:57

just flipping into the opposite i

53:00

love this Yeah, and just

53:02

say the opposite. Using words like

53:04

love, passionate about, those things

53:06

actually in psychology trigger you to

53:08

like someone more when they

53:10

say what they log on that

53:12

they like and what they're

53:14

passionate about. So it's interesting

53:16

just like throwing those those words on

53:18

there. There's some apps that you can

53:20

do voice notes. I think those are

53:22

awesome. We have a little voice sounds

53:25

option that brings a little bit more

53:27

to life. And

53:29

when you're talking about yourself, being

53:32

descriptive, talk about

53:34

your values, talk about something

53:36

unique to yourself. Travel, no.

53:40

Oh my god, like putting that as your hobby,

53:42

eh? Yes. People take

53:44

food, travel, Netflix,

53:47

just like buzzy, saying

53:50

literally. I don't

53:52

have any hobbies, but all I can

53:54

say is travel. I'm

53:58

sure. Everyone loves to

54:00

eat. Everyone loves to go

54:02

on a vacation. I

54:04

think the big takeaway is you're not

54:06

trying to attract the masses. Have a hot

54:08

take. That's fine.

54:10

Be controversial. Right. That's

54:13

okay too. But

54:16

yeah, anything that alludes to

54:18

what you're looking for in a

54:20

relationship, I think it's important

54:22

to be clear on an app

54:24

if you want a relationship

54:26

or if you don't. That's a

54:28

big statement right there. Yes.

54:31

Because if you're not, I don't

54:33

want, I don't feel that that's

54:35

the place for you to be. Right.

54:37

You should be on the app

54:39

if you're not looking for a relationship.

54:42

Or at least be like clear

54:45

about it. Or at least be

54:47

clear, haven't it? So we can

54:49

self eliminate each. I am so

54:51

different than I was three years

54:53

ago because I would have told

54:55

you That's crazy to be

54:57

up front about what you want.

54:59

Just be the fun girl. Make

55:01

them bomb them and you'll probably

55:03

take like three months and then

55:06

you can be yourself and like

55:08

Relationships go the distance when you

55:10

do that shit. No, but now

55:12

I'm like being up front about

55:14

what you want what you need

55:16

But is it's just so much

55:18

better. That's how you spot a

55:21

time meister is a fair Let's

55:23

see where things go, keep

55:25

things casual. We're not swiping

55:27

or engaging. If you know you want

55:29

a serious relationship and you want to

55:32

partner, we're not swiping

55:34

out this people. Sarah,

55:37

you are actually my smartest

55:39

friend and my hottest

55:41

friend. I will say that

55:43

publicly. I think

55:45

a lot of the suits

55:47

are going to want to

55:49

track you down. Where can

55:51

they find you? You

55:53

can find mathleton,

55:55

if you want

55:58

the matchmakers, mathletoninternational.com. And

56:00

then my personal

56:03

Instagram is at xo

56:05

underscore sarah joe.

56:07

Sarah with a H.

56:09

H So

56:12

it's xo

56:14

underscore sarah joe.

56:16

With an

56:18

E. Sorry, my

56:20

is spelled really fucking crazy. That

56:23

is why I have to laugh.

56:25

Isn't it good to have a friend doing the Y's

56:27

or eat the X of H

56:30

-J -O, joke. sir

56:32

Thank you so much for coming on

56:35

So welcome. I'm have you back on.

56:37

I let you guys so much and

56:39

know where to find me. I'll talk

56:41

you next week. Bye. Just

57:00

doing a quick check -in to

57:02

let you guys know that I

57:04

am not going anywhere this holiday

57:06

season and you can expect new

57:08

episodes every single week. Just make

57:11

sure to follow so you don't

57:13

miss an episode.