0:00

I think just like following

0:02

, like just adapting your plans

0:04

to your own

0:06

situation and how things

0:08

are for you . So , yeah , that's what

0:10

I would say . It's really just to be open

0:12

and I still am trying not to make

0:15

like my profession , my identity

0:18

, like having a life

0:20

outside of like programming . I think

0:22

it helps a lot so that I don't

0:24

like get attached to my

0:27

plans . It helps not get attached to

0:29

plans because if , for example

0:31

, I need to change jobs

0:33

because of , maybe , family

0:36

or something like that , so

0:38

I think the first thing is like being

0:41

adapting your own plans to

0:43

like your life situations and like

0:45

not making your work your

0:47

own personal identity , but

0:49

at the same time , trying to do the work well , like trying

0:52

to be a good developer or a good tester

0:54

. Yeah , it's just been open

0:56

really .

0:57

Hello and welcome to Devilpurs

1:00

Journey , the podcast bringing you the making

1:02

of stories of successful software

1:04

developers to help you on your

1:06

upcoming journey . I'm your host , tim

1:08

Borghignan . On this episode , I

1:11

receive Sophie Obomiglie . Sophie

1:13

is a young software tester who has worked as a

1:15

dotnet developer on APIs and Office

1:18

365 applications before

1:20

transitioning into IT support and now

1:22

software testing . But her academic

1:25

background is in human anatomy

1:27

and she doesn't so secretly plans

1:29

to come back to biomedical engineering at some point

1:32

in the future , or so I

1:34

heard Sophie . Welcome

1:36

to Devilpurs Journey .

1:38

Hello , thanks for having me , tim .

1:40

Oh , it's my pleasure , and it's been a long time

1:42

in the making . We had to postpone the recording

1:44

for a while , so I'm really glad this is

1:46

finally happening .

1:48

Yes , I'm glad to . I'm very good .

1:50

But before we come to your story , I

1:52

want to thank the terrific listeners who

1:55

support the show . Every month . You

1:57

are keeping the Devilpurs Journey lights

1:59

up . If you would like to join

2:02

this fine crew and help me spend

2:04

more time on finding phenomenal

2:06

guests than editing audio tracks

2:08

, please go to our website

2:10

, devjourneyinfo , and

2:12

click on the support me on Patreon

2:15

button . Even the smallest contributions

2:17

are giant steps toward

2:19

a sustainable dev journey Journey

2:22

. Thank you , and now back

2:24

to today's guest . So

2:26

, sophie , as you know , the show exists to

2:29

help the listeners understand what your story looked

2:31

like and imagine how to shape their own

2:33

future . So , as is usual

2:35

on the show , let's go back to your beginnings . Where

2:38

will you place the start of your dev journey

2:40

? Hmm ?

2:42

So the start of my dev journey is

2:44

very there's

2:46

no one particular place , so I could

2:48

also say from when I was a child

2:51

. I could also say from when I was in uni

2:53

, but well , as a child , because

2:55

the reason why I'm referencing my child

2:57

to this because , excuse me

2:59

, is because I recently read

3:01

an article I

3:04

don't remember , but this guy interviewed someone

3:06

the guy who who created

3:09

the cookies the cookie , louis

3:11

Martinelli , I think and

3:13

I was going to do other articles and then I saw

3:15

that the ladies there who had done different

3:17

things , created social network

3:19

, created this , and that they kept on talking

3:22

about their own childhood and how it

3:24

wasn't necessarily stereotypical

3:26

, like what you'd expect from an engineer . So

3:30

that's why I think I will talk about my childhood . So

3:32

for the , what

3:34

happened in my childhood that contributed to

3:36

my dev journey was

3:38

, first off , I remember as

3:41

a child I had

3:43

done well in school and

3:45

my dad had promised me to

3:48

. Actually , before , before the

3:50

end of the term , my dad had promised if

3:53

I did well he would buy me something nice

3:55

and eventually he got me a laptop

3:58

, which I really appreciated

4:00

. But at that time I mean this was like

4:02

maybe 10 , 15

4:05

years ago . So I mean it wasn't

4:07

like the the most

4:09

, it wasn't like modern laptops should find

4:11

now . And also , I think

4:13

when you buy laptops , when you buy laptops then

4:16

you have to like do some kind of setup

4:18

and all and all . So before

4:20

he could go to set it up , I

4:22

just stole into his room and opened it

4:24

and just wanted to play with it

4:26

already , but the operating system

4:28

was installed on it and all and all . So

4:30

I just found it really fascinating

4:32

that I could put it on and I think what I

4:35

was seeing was the bios , I think . So

4:37

anyway , I played with it before he got the chance

4:39

to . I didn't think he knew I had done that , so

4:43

I played with it before he got the chance to like take

4:45

it for , like setup and all . So

4:48

yeah , that was my first

4:51

encounter with computers and

4:53

I just found it fascinating . I just generally

4:56

because I'm curious . So I just found

4:58

it very fascinating . So , but fast

5:00

forward , my

5:03

, my mom also like cause she would have a lot

5:05

of things to do . She was

5:07

very I mean , she had good knowledge

5:09

of using computers and all

5:11

. So because of work and

5:13

managing different things , she would ask me

5:16

or my sister to help her like maybe

5:18

impute some data in in

5:21

Excel or create PowerPoint

5:23

For example

5:25

for interest . We have , yeah , interest

5:27

. We have this thing called Havest and she

5:29

was in charge of the Havest committee and she has like

5:31

imputed a lot of data , cause she's like a

5:33

secretary by training and she's like very

5:35

professional at those kinds of things . She would

5:37

, she would ask us to sort that

5:40

out for her while she had to manage

5:42

other things . So I think that also

5:44

helped me . And I guess also I mean , one

5:46

reason why she would , she would entrust such

5:49

to us , to my sister and I , is cause

5:51

I mean we're doing that in school and

5:53

she expected us to practice while we're learning

5:55

and then , yeah

5:57

, and then also during the holidays

5:59

, like my GS three I think

6:01

. I think that's called like grade

6:03

nine in the U S , but my

6:06

GS three . Like the final year of my junior school

6:08

, junior school I

6:10

had a long break and my mom signed

6:13

my sister and I up for a computer training

6:15

that we did . I also found that really

6:17

fascinating because I just learned

6:19

like basic things like word

6:22

and Excel and how to beat fast type

6:24

and all those kinds of things . So

6:27

yeah , so that so I mean she was really

6:29

interested in helping us to be

6:31

up to date because the whole thing of computers were like really just

6:33

coming up . So she really wanted us to be very up to date

6:35

. So my

6:38

parents were very influential

6:40

in that . And

6:43

then also I mean getting back

6:45

to school , I would

6:47

sign up for like just club

6:49

and stuff like that . So even though we didn't

6:51

do that computer related project

6:54

, but anytime we had to do something

6:56

in a computer lab , I always wanted

6:58

to . I want us to be in front

7:00

and to like figure out

7:02

how to fix these or how to do that and so

7:05

yeah , so that I think that also contributed

7:07

to like my interest in

7:10

it and I also like continually

7:12

used to help out with designing

7:14

our yearbook or typing . I would

7:17

type the yearbook thing , those kinds

7:19

of things with the basic things . So

7:21

but after after second year

7:23

school that I thought , okay , maybe I could

7:25

actually make this a career . So

7:28

my oh yeah

7:30

. Another thing I forgot to mention was so

7:32

this thing of video games . I actually

7:35

realized I actually did play video games when

7:37

I was younger . My mom got us this I

7:40

don't remember what it was . It was like Super Mario

7:42

, but

7:44

it's different from Super Mario . You

7:46

have to like jump and jump . So anyway

7:48

, I remember I used to play that with

7:50

my sister until the

7:52

Jockey , the pad went bad

7:55

, like what you used to control . It went

7:57

bad and my mom didn't

7:59

think there was any need to fix it

8:01

so we could concentrate on our books . So

8:05

yeah , so anyway . And

8:08

then by the time I was about entering uni

8:10

, I was speaking with my dad

8:12

and everything . I was talking about what to do and

8:15

I thought , okay , maybe I could

8:17

do something related to computers . And I

8:20

mean at the time nobody

8:22

I think people around me were really sure

8:24

of the prospects of building

8:27

a career in computer . So

8:29

I mean my dad , just okay , well , if you can do computer

8:31

by the side , it's something that you can always learn

8:33

why don't you apply for

8:35

like medicine ? Cause I

8:37

mean just the whole thing of you know when you're

8:39

it's just like a stereotypical thing , like if you're

8:41

like top in class , the stereotypical

8:44

thing is to study medicine or engineering

8:46

or law . So

8:49

I mean at least in Nigeria . So I said

8:51

, okay , maybe I would apply for medicine . So I

8:54

applied for medicine and I

8:56

didn't get the high

8:59

enough score

9:01

for medicine , but I was able

9:03

to get in for human anatomy . So

9:06

the initial plan was to get

9:08

in and then we rise the

9:11

entrance exams for medicine

9:13

the next year , or I could just get in

9:15

for the meantime . So

9:17

I tried to do that . Anyway , there's a lot

9:19

of back and forth , so eventually

9:22

I just decided to just stay in anatomy and

9:24

after school figure out what next to do . So

9:28

but while I was in

9:30

school like I think my first year I

9:33

met some friends who

9:35

were also in , who were in

9:37

medicine . I know I had a friend who was

9:40

in dentistry and this my

9:42

this particular friend I figured out

9:44

. I found out some time later that he

9:46

was into development

9:48

. I didn't really know what development was , but

9:50

I see I just knew that computer was fascinating

9:52

and something I would like to learn more about

9:55

. So we started talking

9:57

and he told me oh so there's this training this

10:00

summer for teenagers

10:02

. Why don't you like apply for it ? Cause in

10:04

uni I'm now still a teenager . So

10:07

I applied for it and I

10:09

got in . So it was like a Microsoft thing

10:12

, microsoft partner with

10:14

some , an NGO called Ola Foundation

10:16

. So I got

10:18

in and I didn't know what to

10:20

expect . So I

10:22

just I think what I learned was

10:24

like was HTML

10:26

and CSS and WordPress and different

10:29

kinds of things , php and stuff like that

10:32

, and that's many people that I am

10:34

still in touch with till now very

10:37

useful to them . So , yeah

10:39

, so that was where I actually like

10:41

started development per se

10:44

development , like getting knowledge of how

10:47

to write code and stuff and

10:49

I was very fascinated and I can be very hyper

10:51

, so I was

10:53

always all about the place , trying to understand here

10:55

and then trying to build . I remember

10:57

building a website cause

10:59

I had a friend who was studying dentistry

11:01

and that friend was studying dentistry and

11:04

I mean I used to hear a lot of dentistry related

11:06

things . So I remember , okay

11:08

, because at the end of the

11:10

training we had to do like

11:13

projects , so I thought I could

11:15

build a website on Halitosis

11:18

, which is like it's a

11:21

dental issue with people with

11:23

like bad breath and stuff like that . So

11:25

I don't remember why I chose that , but it just seemed like

11:27

a very basic dental thing that

11:29

I could talk about , cause I used to hang out with

11:31

a lot of these my friends . So

11:35

I set it up and then I used bootstrap

11:37

. I didn't understand much of what I was doing , but I

11:40

was just trying . So I was

11:42

able to build the website and

11:44

just in the form of like a hospital

11:47

advertisements kind of thing

11:49

like a hospital homepage , but the only

11:51

thing the hospital does is helps

11:53

in tracing and helping people to

11:55

know more about Halitosis . So

11:58

I presented it and , yeah , that was like

12:00

the first . That

12:02

was really how I started . And when

12:05

I go back to school , I started

12:07

doing a lot of community thing

12:09

, like I used to go with my friends for hackathons

12:12

and like Google developer group events

12:15

and those kinds of things , but

12:17

I was still like studying anatomy , I

12:19

was still like trying to like study and

12:21

figure out how to match both

12:23

of them . So that was how I also met

12:26

a friend who was

12:28

into biomedical engineering and then I thought

12:30

, okay , maybe I could do biomedical

12:33

engineering after school . But

12:35

immediately after uni

12:37

I

12:40

decided to focus on tech , on

12:42

like building my IT skill

12:45

in a particular area , just

12:47

so I'm not everywhere , I'm all over the place

12:49

. So when I was done

12:51

with school , I decided to focus on development

12:54

. So I actually started

12:56

in EDX course . So

12:58

I mean , even while I was in school I was doing different things

13:01

. I tried to do the free code camp course and I

13:03

tried different kinds of things and then I used to follow

13:06

different people that I

13:08

found really inspiring . And

13:12

then another thing I forgot to mention was I also remember

13:14

participating in this NASA space

13:16

apps challenge with my friends . Yeah

13:19

, I think we came second . It was really exciting

13:21

. I mean , the whole thing was very , very exciting

13:23

.

13:24

But anyway , professionally , there's

13:28

a question before you get there . Yes , during

13:31

this re-routing , or deciding to focus

13:33

on that , how did your parents take it ? They

13:35

were very adamant in pushing you toward medicine . How

13:38

did you react to that ?

13:40

Well , I think my parents

13:42

are very open , they're

13:45

very open-minded . So

13:47

I mean , they were not like , oh , you have to be a doctor

13:49

, blah , blah blah . But their

13:52

only concern was I need to make sure that whatever

13:54

it is I'm doing , I make sure I do it well

13:56

. So if I'm going to do computers

13:59

and I'm studying anatomy now

14:01

, how do I enter into it ? Merge

14:03

both of them . So actually the ones who pushed

14:05

me to find a way to merge

14:08

my medical background with

14:10

my IT interests . So

14:12

yeah , they didn't give me too

14:14

much problems .

14:16

Okay , okay , so sorry

14:18

, I cut you , so you were taking speaking

14:20

about EDX courses , free code camp and

14:22

the NAVA space challenge

14:25

.

14:25

Yeah , exactly so I so

14:27

well in school , yes , I did all of these different

14:30

things and I remember for

14:32

my final year project I actually planned

14:34

to build something . So I'm

14:37

, technically , I still was growing

14:39

Like I still was trying to like improve

14:42

my skills and just building

14:44

different things , but I wouldn't

14:46

say I was like the best developer

14:48

, even though I knew people

14:50

who were really good and I aspired

14:53

to be like them . But I mean , my course

14:55

was demanding , for me at least

14:57

, and so , anyway , it wasn't very easy to

14:59

like grow very technically . I

15:01

guess also it also has to do with like time

15:03

management and all . But I

15:06

was trying to to finish my

15:08

degree , Because another

15:10

option , because some some other

15:12

option would be to like just leave the

15:14

degree and like focus . But I didn't think that was a

15:17

wise decision . I thought I just need to finish

15:19

my degree and and then know

15:21

what I need to do after .

15:23

So anyway yeah .

15:24

So I was just like juggling between my

15:26

anatomy degree and my programming

15:30

thing , so , but anyway

15:32

, after school , at

15:35

this point , even while I was a student , there

15:37

was a lot of anyway

15:39

I think it's that I would call it pressure like

15:41

because of my hyperactivity

15:44

, I was

15:46

getting a lot of

15:48

what like tablet or what do

15:50

you call it like people trying to interview

15:52

me . I think thinking about

15:55

now I don't really understand why , maybe

15:57

it's a whole thing of women in

15:59

tech and stuff like that , but anyway

16:01

, many people . I got some people , maybe

16:04

because I would write something or I

16:06

would be at this event or that event

16:08

and then , oh , interview for this , blah

16:10

, blah , blah . Anyway , so I'll just talk about doing

16:13

what I have done so

16:15

far , competition to have participated in

16:17

, but I was at some point I stopped

16:20

accepting because I didn't see

16:22

the point I wanted to do technically

16:24

. I didn't want to focus

16:27

on , like , maybe , helping

16:29

with sales , because I think one thing that was making

16:31

me very in front of people was

16:33

because I was the brand manager for

16:36

an organization called Girl

16:38

Lead . So Girl Lead were like training

16:40

girls in my uni , giving

16:43

them like IT or liter skills , like digital

16:46

marketing and software development

16:48

and other entrepreneurship kinds of things . So

16:51

I needed to be

16:53

at events and I needed to be like very

16:55

outside , very in front

16:57

of people . But I think it didn't

17:00

match my temperaments because I used to burn out

17:02

with all the activity and

17:04

I needed to focus on growing technically at

17:06

the same time . Anyway , I

17:08

put a hold on all of that to finish

17:10

my degree and when I finished I

17:13

decided to focus on

17:15

, I decided to focus on

17:17

development . So that's

17:19

when I started the EDX course . So

17:22

, but while doing the EDX course , I found it's really

17:24

difficult . There's the

17:26

C part , the part that's the

17:28

week one , because it's from week zero , week one

17:30

. So week one was on C . So I found

17:33

it difficult understanding the

17:35

material . So I thought

17:37

maybe I could find like an online

17:40

community

17:42

that has

17:45

people learning C or something like that

17:47

, because I think I just I lacked

17:49

some foundational knowledge or maybe

17:51

it just because I hadn't taken the time to

17:53

learn something . So I went about

17:56

looking for such and then I found something

17:58

called hotelsng . It's like a

18:00

very popular internship

18:04

, stroke training in Nigeria

18:06

. So it actually starts with something

18:08

called statsng , where you like learn

18:10

, like basic skills , I like . Okay , let me just start

18:12

from the very basic . So I went

18:15

through all the courses and there

18:17

was no C but there was C-sharp

18:20

. So I thought C-sharp

18:27

was close to C . So I thought

18:29

learning C-sharp would help me with my EDX

18:31

course so I could probably sign up for this

18:33

. So at this time I was working at

18:36

a transcripts processing

18:38

company transcript like university

18:40

transcripts . So I got the job there

18:42

and so it was an on course

18:45

company so it was able to like

18:47

allow me to do some kind of internship there

18:49

. So I mean it wasn't very technical

18:52

per se , but it was a

18:54

lot of administrative duties

18:56

Like I had to call universities

18:59

. I mean there's a lot of things happening and it was

19:01

exciting . But that wasn't

19:03

what I planned to do for long . So that's

19:05

why I decided to focus on both

19:07

my EDX and my

19:10

C-sharp course . So

19:12

I signed the C-sharp course and decided from

19:14

the very beginning I tried to follow along

19:17

. I asked a lot of questions . I think that's

19:19

another thing that brings me out to lots , because

19:21

I , when I do understand , like I think I need to

19:23

ask questions . So I just kept asking a lot of

19:25

questions and before long day I

19:27

was made the class rep

19:29

because I was always in front of the

19:32

teacher , like

19:34

I was always asking him a lot of questions , trying

19:36

to understand the material , blah , blah , blah , blah . So

19:39

I

19:41

eventually finished with the start

19:43

of NG and then realized it was very different

19:45

from EDX . So I

19:47

just thought , okay , maybe because

19:49

I also need to work . The

19:52

CS15 is good , but I don't know if

19:54

I'll get enough skills to

19:57

get a job now . So

19:59

I just needed to get a job in

20:01

programming . So I decided

20:03

to continue with the hotels or NG internship

20:06

, which is more intense and requires

20:08

you and would help you to grow in particular

20:10

fields . So you build stuff . So

20:13

I would build a lot of things under

20:15

a lot of pressure . I remember

20:18

building APIs and MVC

20:20

applications and then I meet a

20:22

lot of friends . So I was just building and building

20:24

and I did that for almost a year . Well

20:27

, no , not up to a year , actually maybe three

20:29

months Then after

20:31

that , because you have to go

20:34

in a competition format , so

20:37

stage one to stage 10 . So

20:39

I got to stage six , I think

20:41

, and I couldn't continue

20:43

because there was an assignment

20:45

, what I was supposed to do , and I couldn't complete

20:47

the project

20:50

. I tried and tried and it

20:52

didn't work out . But anyway , I

20:54

left with a lot of experience and I

20:56

was able to start working with the

20:59

company of one of the mentors

21:01

from the program . So I did some

21:04

API development there and I

21:07

just had left my other job because

21:09

I needed to focus on this . So

21:12

I did some API development and

21:14

I still continue with my

21:16

community thing

21:18

. I was involved in the

21:23

community because I had to start

21:25

lettingnet I usually just get into community things

21:27

so I started

21:29

helping out with events

21:31

, organizing events and stuff like that and

21:35

eventually I I

21:38

left the company . But

21:40

I got the internship arts like the C-Sharp

21:43

internship and started

21:45

applying to other companies and

21:48

I got another job . Like at this time I

21:50

just needed to get a job . That was even though I

21:52

was staying with my parents and

21:54

so housing wasn't necessarily a problem

21:57

, but I just needed to

21:59

have a job . And I wanted to have

22:01

a job in a field , in like a

22:03

tech field . So I just

22:05

kept applying and applying and trying different

22:08

things . So I got this Office

22:10

365 job . I didn't understand what

22:12

it was . So my career has

22:14

been a lot of figuring out on

22:17

the board . Yeah , like I'll just get

22:19

in . In fact , I think that's how I've been learning . Like I just push

22:21

myself and I just do hard

22:24

things the hard way , like

22:26

I don't even put the simple rounds

22:28

, I just like put myself on the spot

22:30

and say you know what , just do it . And if

22:33

I fail , I just feel embarrassed and I just keep

22:35

trying again . So

22:37

I got this other job

22:39

in the Microsoft

22:41

Partner Company and I

22:45

knew it was C-Sharp . So I just thought , okay

22:47

, I could just go in so I can internship

22:50

actually . So I decided to just go in

22:52

and start learning again . So

22:55

I started this one and

22:57

then I realized it was Office 365

22:59

. So , like what happens ? You see , you know how

23:01

Microsoft Teams ? Microsoft

23:03

Teams is where you have like

23:06

small applets inside of it . So

23:08

what we had to do was to develop

23:10

the apps that you would install

23:13

on Microsoft Teams . So

23:15

, yeah , it was really interesting

23:17

and it was easy to get started with it

23:19

because there are so many like open source

23:22

materials I could use

23:24

and then just add extra features

23:26

, like extend them . So

23:29

I did that for like five

23:31

months and I was just learning . I

23:33

would try different things at different points

23:36

. But then after

23:38

some time I decided to leave

23:40

that job because we

23:42

have this thing in Nigeria called the youth service

23:44

, call NYSE , so I need us to

23:46

go for that . So you have like three

23:48

months like paramilitary training , so like three

23:50

weeks paramilitary training , and then

23:52

you come up for like a year to do like

23:56

a service in an institution

23:58

or something . So I decided I didn't

24:00

want to do this in this company

24:02

, I'm gonna go somewhere else . So

24:04

I got to apply

24:07

for a university

24:09

in the IT supports

24:12

department . So I

24:15

actually wanted to . At

24:17

first my intention was to continue with development

24:19

and like get proper grounding in

24:22

backend , because at this time I mean I was just

24:24

doing CS50 , but now my attention

24:26

was on doing backend and

24:29

growing in dotnet . But

24:31

situations changed and

24:33

the only job that

24:35

I could find for development I

24:38

mean it wasn't in a very good , in a conducive

24:41

I don't know

24:43

how to put it . But anyway , it wasn't the best for me at the

24:45

time . So I

24:47

decided to go instead with the IT support

24:49

role , and also because

24:51

I felt it's also good

24:53

to have that . I don't know if

24:55

this is a correct thinking , but I thought

24:57

it's good to have a holistic understanding

24:59

of computers , to be a good

25:02

developer . That was just my thinking

25:04

, like , okay , I need to be a good computer

25:06

person before

25:08

I can be a good or at the same

25:10

time be a good developer

25:13

. So I took the IT

25:15

job , the IT support job , and it

25:18

was very exciting as well . I

25:21

had to carry things . They had told me before

25:23

joining are you ready to carry

25:26

heavy things and monitors ? But

25:28

actually I didn't have to necessarily because

25:31

they were all guys and they were willing

25:33

to do all the heavy lifting

25:36

for me , but I didn't want that

25:38

. I remember one time

25:40

we had to move the wires I

25:45

think some Ethernet cable

25:47

or so from one part of the roof

25:49

to the other so

25:51

that it could go into one of the classes , and

25:53

of course the guys were doing it , blah , blah , blah

25:55

, and then my boss had

25:58

stepped out to do something . So I was

26:00

able to convince the

26:02

other guys to let me do it . So I

26:04

climbed the ladder , I went in and I was

26:06

doing it and my boss came in and I was like what are

26:08

you doing ? Please , please

26:10

, don't do the heavy lifting . I don't want you doing

26:13

that . So I

26:15

mean , they were just very they're very elegant

26:17

, it was a very nice place to work

26:19

and they were very respectful of me

26:22

as a woman , so they didn't want

26:24

me to do anything to inconvenience

26:27

him so much . I

26:29

always pushed to just

26:31

pick up things . I remember the time it took

26:33

me to learn how to crimp the wires

26:36

, like the Ethernet cable , like

26:38

to connect the head I

26:40

think it's called EG45 , I

26:42

don't remember but the head

26:44

of the cable like you connect

26:47

to your PC , I'm connecting

26:49

to the wire . So it took me almost

26:51

six months to successfully

26:53

do that and

26:55

I was always wasting it . But

26:58

they let me play around

27:00

with things . I was the only lady , but

27:03

I didn't feel any form of discrimination

27:05

or anything . In fact they encouraged

27:08

me to do things , but they didn't

27:10

want . You know , it's just like this chevalry

27:12

, like you know how , like , like

27:15

guys just want to like make sure that the woman

27:17

is not inconvenienced . So that's just what was happening

27:19

and it was lovely to be in that space , but

27:22

I was always pushing because I felt if I don't

27:24

push I probably wouldn't learn . So

27:26

I was always pushing back . So

27:29

it was a very lovely place to work and

27:32

I learned so much professionally

27:34

, like , and technically and humanly

27:37

in different ways . So

27:40

I did that for , yeah , sorry .

27:42

If I may , you said at the beginning that

27:44

you thought back then that

27:47

having a holistic understanding of

27:49

the computer world

27:51

would help you afterwards

27:54

With what you learned . Do you still stick

27:56

by this ?

27:59

Well , yes , I still do , but

28:02

even though I don't think it's

28:05

the same way as I thought , because now

28:08

I think what I gained from

28:10

that experience was not being afraid of , like

28:12

, opening up computers . But

28:18

practically I don't think there's a correlation

28:21

. So

28:25

I think the reason why I still stick by it is because

28:27

I think it's helping me to not be

28:29

afraid of like challenges

28:31

, like because the whole thing , if you open

28:33

up your computer , my share was always I

28:35

wouldn't be able to close it back or I would spoil

28:37

something , something would go bad . So

28:40

I would say it's good generally

28:43

, but I

28:45

don't think it's

28:47

a necessity . It's not a necessity

28:49

to me to have like

28:51

hardware skills at all , but I

28:54

guess it was just good for me because I like those kinds of

28:57

things .

28:57

Okay , that makes sense . Makes sense . I

28:59

really like going deeper as well

29:01

, and there's some kind of intimidation of

29:04

going deeper , not just necessarily

29:06

on the hardware , but manipulating network

29:09

security and network parameters . You

29:11

never know if you're going to put it back together afterwards

29:14

and you're going to shut off

29:16

your machine from the network and you won't

29:18

really know what happened

29:20

. And so going deeper sometimes

29:23

is really jumping over your own shadow and

29:25

trying to take

29:27

up the challenge .

29:28

So I guess , there is some value to it . Yes

29:30

, I think I also , cause I feel like

29:33

it's good Because , since I didn't have a

29:35

computer science background , you know how having a

29:38

computer science background exposes you to

29:40

the different fields . So I felt

29:42

I needed to like expose myself to

29:45

these different fields and eventually

29:47

just have one place . And then also , I think

29:49

it helps me to have like many like discussions

29:52

that I would otherwise would not have been able

29:54

to talk about things

29:56

that I probably won't have been able to

29:58

if I didn't like practically do them

30:01

.

30:01

Yeah , absolutely , absolutely Sorry

30:04

, I cut you . You wanted to move

30:06

along .

30:07

Yes , so so . But while

30:09

I was doing this NYSE

30:12

service , I also like try

30:14

to continue like staying in touch with C-Sharp

30:16

. So I applied for this hotelsng

30:19

internship again . Well , I

30:21

didn't finish again because it's very competitive

30:24

, but anyway I

30:26

didn't get to stage 10 . I

30:28

also applied for Outreachy . That

30:30

was like because my habit of

30:33

always like pushing myself and doing

30:35

the inconvenience things and hard things

30:37

, so I applied for Outreachy even though

30:39

I didn't know so much about open

30:42

source Like I , even though I had , like I had

30:44

a GitHub account and I used to like try

30:46

to contribute to stuff , but I

30:49

didn't really know how to contribute open

30:52

source project . But I thought it was an

30:54

exciting thing to try out also . So

30:57

I did apply to Outreachy and I'm

30:59

even trying to rewrite an article about my

31:01

experience . Maybe I would share it with you

31:04

. I'm trying to like yeah , put it together

31:06

and I just realized it was in my

31:08

draft for like , but past two years

31:10

or so . So

31:14

anyway , I did and I got into

31:16

the contribution stage and , my gosh

31:19

, I loved it . I learned things

31:21

I didn't know existed

31:23

, like I remember I contributed

31:26

to two projects Genome and Ceph . I

31:28

didn't even know what Ceph

31:31

was , but my colleagues who

31:33

have been like

31:35

IT administrators for a long like were

31:37

so excited hearing me talk about

31:39

Ceph because I think they

31:42

had used it . So I think Ceph is it's like

31:44

a product that helps

31:46

with you know how

31:48

you would have , how

31:51

distributed yes , you know

31:53

how you have like distributed storage . So

31:55

I think it's something around distributed

31:57

storage . I don't remember the details

31:59

anymore , but anyway they were very happy

32:02

. So something about when you have , when one of

32:04

the storage is down , you can always

32:06

have access to your data and the other storage . I

32:08

hope I'm not making it up , but anyway

32:11

. So I decided to contribute

32:13

to Ceph precisely because I didn't know what

32:15

it was and because , on

32:18

when I was going through the different projects , ceph was

32:21

one project that didn't have so many people are planning

32:23

for it , because it was obviously

32:25

difficult , like many

32:27

of the other projects were like simple things

32:29

to start up with , like writing

32:32

I mean so like those things are like

32:35

don't have their technicalities . I think they have their

32:37

technicalities , but I think it's easier

32:39

to like get started with those kinds of things

32:41

. But like to get started with something

32:43

like a lot of heavy lifting , infrastructure

32:46

and stuff is difficult . So

32:48

but I was able to to

32:51

do a lot with Ceph with because

32:53

I had Microsoft

32:55

subscriptions

32:58

that I could play around with because I had written the

33:00

Microsoft 365 exam

33:02

, so I had some subscription

33:05

I could use to spin off virtual

33:07

machines , because my laptop wasn't very strong

33:10

so I had to use virtual machines to work on

33:12

the project . So I had to

33:14

learn go lang and a lot

33:16

of like systems and

33:18

things and I had to use like

33:20

AWS S3 buckets and

33:22

stuff like that . So

33:25

, but at the end of the project , I think

33:27

the reason why I didn't

33:29

get in was because at least the feedback I

33:31

got from the Ceph mentor he

33:33

was really helpful . Like I was going through my discussion

33:36

, my like Gmail thread

33:38

, with him and I saw like I sent him like almost

33:40

100 emails and

33:43

he was always responding , always like

33:45

I would have this issue , I would email

33:47

him , I would have this other issue . He would

33:49

email him and he would respond , and

33:52

at the point he was even on his vacation and I thought

33:54

so bad , like I mean , if I don't ask him

33:56

, I don't know who to ask . But

33:59

many of also the many of the past Auschwitz

34:01

interns from Nigeria helped

34:04

me as well , like I just reached out to so many of

34:06

them . So

34:08

so , anyway , the main thing was I needed

34:10

to like clean up my code , like I needed to

34:12

like you know how you'd have this

34:15

thing , comments and stuff

34:17

like that , so I needed to like clean

34:19

them up . So that was like the major feedback

34:22

. So , yeah , I think

34:24

I think that was that for for

34:27

my internship . So , after , after

34:29

the service , I applied for jobs

34:31

, like net jobs

34:33

. I didn't get any because I was still junior , yeah

34:37

. But eventually I got this company that

34:40

said , oh , you can come in , but

34:43

we don't take like junior people . But

34:45

you could come in as a QA person , okay

34:47

, I don't know what QA is , but no problem . One

34:51

more challenge . Yes , one more challenge

34:53

. So I got in and I started

34:56

learning . I found it really annoying at first because

34:59

I felt like I was just clicking buttons and blah

35:01

, blah , blah . But I read this

35:03

book by Glenn's Myers , the art of software testing

35:06

. Well , I don't understand so

35:08

much , but I just kept on looking for materials

35:10

and studying , and studying . And

35:12

I did this course , the RST

35:15

rapid software testing course and I think that was

35:17

really what opened up my eyes and because at

35:19

first I was thinking you know what , after

35:21

the six months probation

35:23

, I'm going to move back to development , because it gave me that

35:25

option of moving back to development , when

35:28

I did that course I felt okay , I think I could actually

35:30

stay in QA , at least for now

35:32

. So that's how I ended up where

35:35

I am now .

35:36

Wow , and so not annoying

35:38

anymore . Sorry , I can get

35:40

you , so the software

35:42

testing is not annoying anymore .

35:45

Oh no , no , it's not annoying anymore . Exciting

35:48

, very exciting .

35:49

Wow , that's cool . That's really cool At

35:52

the beginning . So you talked about the

35:54

human anatomy a little bit and in the bio I

35:57

read of you , you

35:59

said you secretly plan to come back

36:01

to biomedical engineering . Is this

36:03

true , and do you have a plan already for that ?

36:07

Yes , yes , it is . So after

36:10

school my plan was to focus on a

36:12

tech skill that I could transfer

36:14

to biomedical engineering

36:16

. So I've been doing that for some years

36:18

now . I think I still have a long way to go , but

36:21

I plan to do some

36:23

computer engineering postgraduate

36:26

diploma . I guess that's like good

36:28

stats . So that's like my first

36:31

step to this biomedical

36:33

engineering . And I mean

36:35

the key thing is since

36:37

applicable or applicable

36:39

to biomedical engineering

36:41

. So anyway , I'm just going with

36:44

the like

36:46

as life goes on . I just follow what

36:48

happens , because sometimes it may be something

36:50

else that will influence my decision on a tertiary

36:52

professional , maybe like some situations

36:55

or stuff like that . So I'm really

36:57

just open and I'm going

36:59

to get my degree soon . I have

37:01

plans for that , but for

37:04

now I'm just trying to grow , do

37:06

my job .

37:08

And this is awesome in itself

37:11

. This is usually a place where I ask

37:13

for an advice , and one thing struck me

37:15

while you were talking is

37:17

how deliberate you were

37:20

about everything . I mean you

37:22

. By the time you decided , okay

37:24

, let's go out of human anatomy , let's embrace

37:26

the stack stuff , I had

37:28

a feeling you really deliberately

37:31

made one step after the other , saying , hey , I need

37:33

to try this out and I need to understand this thing

37:35

and I need to go this direction . And

37:37

, okay , there was a lot of challenges . But

37:40

how did you or maybe

37:42

did you ? Did

37:44

you feel it this way ? Or do you feel it

37:46

this way after the fact ? And if so

37:48

, how would you encourage people to be deliberate

37:51

in what they do ?

37:54

Well , I don't think I'll call

37:56

myself that , but

37:59

I'll say that

38:02

not holding onto plans

38:04

is one thing , because you

38:07

may not know that , you don't know how

38:09

the future would be . So I

38:12

, for example , going

38:14

into my

38:17

IT support role , for example , I didn't know I

38:19

would ever do that . I always found it fascinating

38:22

opening computers and

38:24

all , but I never knew I would do that . So I

38:27

just the situation I was at at the moment

38:29

and then I thought , you know , I could just do this

38:31

. So I think what I would say is , first of all , be open

38:34

to life , like

38:36

not holding onto your

38:38

own personal plans , because

38:41

otherwise you would just be angry

38:43

, angry with everybody , angry

38:45

, and upset that life isn't going

38:47

out as I plan , but

38:50

I think , just like following

38:52

, like just adapting your plans

38:54

to your own

38:57

situation and how things

38:59

are for you . So , yeah , that's what

39:01

I would say . It's really just to be open

39:03

. And another thing also

39:05

was I try I'm trying not to

39:07

I still am trying not to make

39:09

like my profession , my identity

39:12

, like having a life

39:14

outside of , like programming . I think

39:16

it helps a lot so that I don't

39:18

like get attached to to

39:21

my , my plans . It helps not getting

39:23

attached to plans , because if , for

39:25

example , I need to change

39:28

jobs cause of maybe family

39:30

or something like that , yeah , so

39:33

I think so , first thing is like being

39:35

adapting your own plans to

39:38

like your life situations and like

39:40

not making your work your

39:42

own personal identity , but

39:44

like , at the same time , trying to do the work well , like

39:46

trying to be a good developer or a good

39:48

tester yeah , but it's

39:50

just being open really , yeah .

39:53

And thank you for that . That's really wise . That's really wise

39:55

. And then not making work your identity

39:57

, that is that has deep ramifications

40:00

in how we approach life and how

40:02

we approach our works and how we

40:04

we approach the challenges that

40:06

we have every day , both on the personal level and on

40:08

the professional level . This is something to

40:10

ponder . Thank you for that .

40:12

Thank you .

40:14

So , sophie , where would be the best place to

40:16

continue this discussion with you ?

40:18

So I think that would be Twitter

40:21

. I'm on Twitter

40:23

at Google media , sophie . That's

40:25

O-B-O-M-I-G-H-I-E , and

40:27

then , sophie , or you

40:30

could just send me an email . Maybe I'll

40:32

send you the email that I could

40:34

use , because sometimes I'm not on Twitter

40:36

. So Twitter and email are like

40:38

the best two channels to

40:40

reach me out . Absolutely

40:42

, and we'll add both to the show notes and

40:45

the thing is , I also have a

40:48

blog that I'm trying to build up . Sure

40:51

, yeah , I guess I'll send the link to .

40:56

Yes , and we'll add it to the show notes as well , so

40:59

you don't have to search for it , just scroll

41:01

down and click on it . Anything else you want

41:03

to plug in ?

41:06

Well , nothing else , Just

41:08

. I mean just the listeners to be happy

41:10

and , yeah , to just keep doing great

41:13

things . Amen to that , sophie

41:15

.

41:16

thank you so so much

41:18

. Thank you to Tim

41:20

. And this has been another

41:23

episode of Delver's Journey and we'll

41:25

see each other next week . Bye , bye

41:27

. Thanks a lot for tuning in

41:29

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41:31

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41:34

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41:36

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41:39

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41:41

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41:43

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41:47

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42:10

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42:13

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42:15

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42:18

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42:22

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42:25

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