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conrad.com. That's not a rib.

1:31

She put it. She put

1:33

it right around. No, you

1:36

haven't been there's no box

1:38

of gimmicks. Rumor in the

1:40

window. I don't deal in

1:42

rumor in the inn. And

1:45

was he there? I was

1:47

there. I don't give a

1:49

shh. Hey, Scurge. Suck him.

1:52

You Bruce. Bruce

2:06

Richard. Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson and

2:08

you're listening to something to wrestle with.

2:11

John Layfield? John, what's going on, man?

2:13

How are you? Conrad, I am doing

2:15

a great, almost, I'm like the doc

2:17

holiday from Tombstone when I was flying

2:20

over to do the deal with Ron

2:22

over in the UK for for the

2:24

love of wrestling. I was like the

2:26

lunger, the tuberculosis guy that was coughing

2:28

on the plane that everybody wanted to

2:30

throw me off like Jonah on the

2:33

way to throw the way to the

2:35

sick bastardo. Well, how was for the

2:37

love of wrestling? Do you have a

2:39

good time? Awesome time. Those guys run

2:41

such a wonderful show. They run a

2:43

wonderful wrestling event. They run everything was

2:46

fantastic. I mean, there are so many

2:48

people over there. You know, things that

2:50

what I miss so much in COVID

2:52

was seeing the boys, you know, and

2:54

seeing the guys. That's one things a

2:56

lot of guys talk about is they

2:59

get older. You enjoy being around the

3:01

guys, you know, the fans too. They're

3:03

fun. Valerie does the Q&A, they had

3:05

it perfect with the pictures, with all

3:07

the signings, there's a lot of fun.

3:09

I've always enjoyed going over to England.

3:12

All I've ever heard is great stuff,

3:14

be sure to check out for the

3:16

love of wrestling the next time they're

3:18

in your neck of the woods. And

3:20

by the way, Freido is my favorite,

3:22

I love Freido, Freido is what a,

3:25

I love that guy, you know, he's

3:27

the Scottish wrestler, you know, he does

3:29

a lot of entertaining, sometimes comedy, comedy

3:31

stuff, but... just entertaining as he could

3:33

be. I was so happy I got

3:35

to see him. Motherfucker, you mean Prado?

3:38

Whatever. Prado, Grado, he's Scottish, you can't

3:40

understand him anyway. I thought you were

3:42

fucking making a damn godfather reference. Well,

3:44

maybe it's, yeah. I know what you're

3:46

afraid of. I don't know. Grado, whatever,

3:48

Grado, Frado, it's. Yeah, you frado eating

3:51

motherfucker, we love you, Prado. Hey, John,

3:53

I gotta ask you the big breaking

3:55

news over the weekend of course the

3:57

rock he came back Smackdown on USA

3:59

shaking it all up. Did you get

4:01

a chance to catch the appearance? What

4:04

did you think? I thought it was

4:06

strange and I thought it was probably

4:08

supposed to be strange You know sometimes

4:10

you do stuff that you don't have

4:12

a finish to that's why you call

4:14

it episodic television, and I thought that's

4:16

what that's what that's what that was

4:19

I have no idea what I'm gonna

4:21

take your soul I don't think anybody

4:23

else does I And I think that's

4:25

how it was supposed to look. I

4:27

thought it was incredibly well done. And

4:29

by the way, you've got the biggest

4:32

movie star in the last 20 years

4:34

coming back to WME. There's no downside

4:36

to this. You know, this is, you

4:38

know, a lot of people have always

4:40

gotten mad about guys coming back, you

4:42

know, we got mad about the warrior

4:45

coming back, about Sid coming back, about

4:47

the rock coming back. Look, if you're

4:49

big enough, you don't need them. But

4:51

there ain't nobody bigger than that that

4:53

man. And so it's always great to

4:55

have something like that come back because

4:58

it really does help the show. It

5:00

makes a lot of sense that they

5:02

would bring him back, especially with the

5:04

announcement of WrestleMania in New Orleans, immediately

5:06

following with a press conference. I mean,

5:08

why not milk the rock's appearance and

5:11

get whatever media coverage you can? Totally

5:13

makes sense to use him for the

5:15

WrestleMania announcement. I guess we'll see what

5:17

it means storyline wise, but it did

5:19

announce he'll be at elimination chamber, which

5:21

makes that show feel even bigger. with

5:24

John Sina and the rock both on

5:26

that show at the Skydome in Toronto.

5:28

It's coming up this weekend. John you've

5:30

been around a lot of elimination chamber

5:32

matches in your day. You have a

5:34

prediction this year for the elimination chamber.

5:37

Everybody has John seen a circle. Is

5:39

that what you'd like to see too

5:41

or is there another idea? I was

5:43

wrong at the Royal Rumble and I

5:45

was happy I was wrong because I

5:47

love Jayuso and I thought the swerve

5:50

was really well done. Yes, I'm going,

5:52

I'm doubling down on John Sina. I

5:54

think that promo he cut was just

5:56

just magnificent and there's only one like

5:58

him. I think throw him a bone.

6:00

I hope he goes over. I'm excited

6:02

that he's there. I was in a

6:05

elimination chamber and one time I think

6:07

I was in just one and Umaga,

6:09

you know, he played high school football

6:11

in Samoa, barefoot. So imagine looking back

6:13

and seeing this 245 pound huge Samoan

6:15

back there in the back field in

6:18

a football game barefoot. I got dude,

6:20

we quit, we forfeit. We don't want

6:22

to play you guys. He was walking

6:24

across the grate. Now that's how tough

6:26

he is. He was walking across the

6:28

grate and I saw his feet were

6:31

hurting. And I thought if that big

6:33

tough stuff a bitch, his feet are

6:35

hurting. Don't open this fucking pot. Whatever

6:37

you do, don't open this pot. Whatever

6:39

you do, don't open this pot. And

6:41

right what I was thinking this, some

6:44

fan is what are you doing in

6:46

there? And I look back, I go,

6:48

I don't know. I really don't know.

6:50

Yeah, I was hoping my pot would

6:52

never open. Unfortunately, unfortunately, unfortunately, unfortunately, unfortunately,

6:54

unfortunately, it did. Yeah no way out

6:57

2008. We go back to February of

6:59

2008, 17 years ago. It was triple

7:01

H. Chris Jericho, Jeff Hardy, JBL, Sean

7:03

Michaels, and Umaga. I kind of forgot

7:05

you were in elimination chamber. Like of

7:07

all of these sort of gimmick matches

7:10

that are out there. Is that the

7:12

most dangerous one? Is that the most

7:14

devastating one? No doubt about it. When

7:16

they first built it, there was nothing

7:18

on that structure that didn't hurt. I

7:20

mean, nothing. It was look like a

7:23

terrific idea. I don't know. I think

7:25

Jericho maybe came up with the original

7:27

ideas, what I heard. Kind of, I

7:29

know maybe Helen, I'm not sure. Anyway,

7:31

the original idea, there was nothing about

7:33

it that looked, that was safe. Everything

7:36

on that thing heard. And nothing made

7:38

a noise. It's the worst of everything.

7:40

You hit a freaking floor. It's just

7:42

a thud. No noise, but it almost

7:44

breaks your back. It was like the

7:46

Punjabi prison match when they first built

7:49

that thing. It looked like bamboo, but

7:51

it was solid steel. Oh, shit. I

7:53

hit that thing. It hurt anything that

7:55

touched that thing hurt, but it looked

7:57

fake. So when you're hitting it, it's

7:59

like the worst of everything. You're getting

8:01

beat to hell, and the crowd's not

8:04

reacting because it doesn't look real. That's

8:06

how the chamber was when it first

8:08

started. They've since made it a lot

8:10

better. I was glad I was in

8:12

one, but I didn't want to be

8:14

in two. What a rib, I mean

8:17

you would think if we're creating a

8:19

new gimmick match for wrestling, we would

8:21

keep like sound and safety in mind,

8:23

but I guess they're like, yeah, they'll

8:25

figure it out. Right, you know, because

8:27

they always might, you know, Fritz was

8:30

one of the first ones to mock

8:32

the ring and you know, several cameras

8:34

that were mocked up the ring and

8:36

you know, it's been done for years

8:38

and then they would. You know, now

8:40

they have some type of things that

8:43

are underneath the grates and stuff when

8:45

it hits, it rattles, it makes a

8:47

sound. When you first build it, it

8:49

was just like a, we're gonna build

8:51

something indestructible. Okay, that's good because the

8:53

boys aren't indestructible. Did you know that

8:56

there was a, I don't know how

8:58

I didn't know this, but as I

9:00

was going over to cage match.net net

9:02

to figure out exactly when he ran

9:04

an elimination chamber. So I typed in

9:06

your last name. Did you know there

9:09

was a guy who called himself instead

9:11

of JBL? He was IBL? Insane Bradshaw

9:13

Layfield? Did you know about this? No,

9:15

never heard it. There's a wrestler from

9:17

Canada. Really? Who I guess also wrestled

9:19

under the name Bill Coltrain. And he

9:22

had the gimmick name insane Bradshaw Layfield.

9:24

IBL. How great is that? I love

9:26

it. You know, guys used to, you

9:28

know, Tracy Smothers, you know, and if,

9:30

you know, found out, I found out

9:32

later from his friends, it was a

9:35

rib. But he would go around and

9:37

he would imitate me with a big

9:39

belly and a suit and everything. And

9:41

I thought... I mean, I need to

9:43

send this guy a check. I mean,

9:45

all he's doing is promoting me. Effie

9:47

recently went out as, you know, Effie's

9:50

a gay man. That's a wrestler. And

9:52

he went out as gay B.L. And

9:54

I said, I saw him like right

9:56

after that. I said, Effie, that is

9:58

the greatest thing I've ever seen. I

10:00

love stuff like that. Gaille is so...

10:03

Gail, he had Gail, he had the

10:05

cowboy head and everything, it was, it

10:07

was fantastic. I saw him, I said,

10:09

man, I just, I went straight to

10:11

him. I said, I want to tell

10:13

you, that was fantastic. Well, listen, everybody

10:16

is sort of waiting with faded breath

10:18

to see what WrestleMania is going to

10:20

look like. We feel like we know

10:22

some of the matches, like we know

10:24

it's going to be Charlotte Claire and

10:26

Tiffany and Tiffany. When's the elimination chamber?

10:29

Maybe it'll be John Sena and Cody

10:31

Rhodes. That was a report that we

10:33

saw a few months ago from Dave

10:35

Melter. But what is the other match?

10:37

You know, there was speculation that maybe

10:39

there was going to be a three-way

10:42

match, but now people are wondering, John,

10:44

are we going to get rock and

10:46

Roman this year? I think there's a

10:48

chance. Yeah, you know, because I think

10:50

the rock loves wrestling. I think deep

10:52

down the rock really enjoys wrestling and

10:55

he's always loved the business. You know,

10:57

grew up in the business, it's always

10:59

been a part of his blood. He's

11:01

really good at it, by the way.

11:03

I'd love to see him wrestle. I

11:05

don't know if he will or not.

11:08

You know, it's kind of, you know,

11:10

you never know what's a swerve and

11:12

what is it? When he said, Cody

11:14

and he don't. Now whether that is

11:16

true or not is different because he's

11:18

working or whatever else you know and

11:21

and good grief I hope he's working

11:23

this because I enjoy being worked I

11:25

enjoy swerves coming and I enjoy having

11:27

the fun of being surprised I'd love

11:29

to see rock in a match and

11:31

I love to see rock versus Roman

11:34

I think that's really it's one of

11:36

the most interesting things that's out there.

11:38

Well we're gonna stay tuned. this weekend

11:40

of course it's all gonna come to

11:42

a head also wanted to ask did

11:44

you have a chance to catch the

11:46

Australian show this past weekend anytime there's

11:49

an international show it feels like it

11:51

makes headlines we hear it's one of

11:53

the third biggest gates of all time

11:55

for that promotion and and they had

11:57

a hot crowd what you think yeah

11:59

you know I caught the social media

12:02

stuff of it you know I rarely

12:04

watch you know full paper views, full

12:06

shows. I catch a lot of social

12:08

media clips. That's why I keep up

12:10

with it. It looked like it was

12:12

a great show. You know, I know

12:15

they're disappointed because they went from an

12:17

arena down to a, I'm sorry, the

12:19

stadium down to an arena. But you're

12:21

still selling something out that's pretty big.

12:23

And you're still putting a lot of

12:25

people in there. And with fewer matches,

12:28

which I think is a key. You

12:30

know, I've been surprised WDB, you know,

12:32

how few matches they're having how few

12:34

matches they're having. And it. You let

12:36

these guys tell magnificent stories of 20,

12:38

30 minutes. And maybe that's where they're

12:41

picking it up from, you know, instead

12:43

of just hot-shotting, everything. Well, I for

12:45

one am looking forward to a big

12:47

year in professional wrestling in 2025, and

12:49

there's lots of rumor in any window,

12:51

there's lots of speculation out there. You

12:54

never know what's going to happen next.

12:56

Maybe that's why we love talking about

12:58

it so much, but our topic today

13:00

is something we haven't spent a lot

13:02

of time talking about. Global. Global. The

13:04

GWF, Bruce and I have discussed his

13:07

time in Global, in the archives, available

13:09

at something to wrestle.com, but well, that

13:11

was sort of a refuge for Bruce

13:13

Richard, but really Global is helping you

13:15

sort of kickstart your career, right, Joe?

13:17

Yeah, that's my first job. And you

13:20

know, it wasn't because I'd seen them

13:22

on ESPN or anything else. I'd grown

13:24

up... watching the sport thorium. You know,

13:26

and I knew that was to me,

13:28

that was the center of the universe.

13:30

That was the center of wrestling. And

13:33

so when I went up and trained

13:35

with Brad Ryanans up in Minnesota, I

13:37

spent several months up there. I didn't

13:39

have anywhere to go. I think Portland

13:41

had a little bit of a territory

13:43

at that time. They're running again. I

13:45

mean, you know, they had fallen off

13:48

big and I think they opened up

13:50

a little bit. Tennessee was running a

13:52

little bit, but there wasn't much money.

13:54

Wasn't money in Texas either, by the

13:56

way. But I wanted to be the

13:58

sportitorium. That's what I grew up watching.

14:01

That's what I watched with my grandfather.

14:03

And that's really where I wanted to

14:05

start. I mean, you know, we don't

14:07

have to get in a specifics if

14:09

you don't want to. Was wrestling paying

14:11

a living wage at the time or

14:14

was it just a dream and you

14:16

knew like hey man this is not

14:18

sustainable something's got to shake loose but

14:20

I'm paying my dues. Good lord no

14:22

it wasn't paying a living wage not

14:24

even close my first match I come

14:27

down I've told you so before and

14:29

happy to tell it again where I

14:31

end up in a match with broad

14:33

price I believe for the North American

14:35

title or something at the time of

14:37

the titles all night anyway. It's a

14:40

main event top match my first match.

14:42

and I got paid $25. You know,

14:44

I thought I'd get, you know, the

14:46

place was packed. Now, understand, Gray Pearson

14:48

was the one that was running global

14:50

at the time, he had a great

14:53

business model, and it really was. He

14:55

let people in for free, but he

14:57

charged pretty high parking rates, and he

14:59

got all the concessions. So he was

15:01

making... I think pretty good money by

15:03

this business bottle. So the crowd was

15:06

always full. People said, well, you guys

15:08

weren't drawing that. I know we were

15:10

drawing a ton. Nobody was paying for

15:12

tickets, but Gray was making pretty good

15:14

money because he was parked, he was

15:16

paying, he had to pay for parking

15:19

and he got all the concessions. So

15:21

it was a pretty good business model.

15:23

It looked fantastic on television, but we

15:25

weren't making any money. Now I think

15:27

later I got up to $50 or

15:29

$75 for main event matches. But still,

15:31

you can't, that's the biggest show of

15:34

the freaking week. You know, I went

15:36

and worked for Killer Tim Brooks for

15:38

the Villa Inn. It was in Garland.

15:40

Killer ran a couple shows. He ran

15:42

Villa Inn and Garland, and he ran

15:44

the old Longhorn Ballroom, which is right

15:47

down the street from Sport Tour, a

15:49

famous famous old country western bar and

15:51

rock bar. And I remember I got

15:53

$10 from Killer, because Killer really like

15:55

me. and Killer was taking care of

15:57

me. You know, he just, he appreciated,

16:00

you know, the big tough Texan guys,

16:02

you know, and he gave me $10

16:04

and one of the guys quit that

16:06

was a veteran because he got five.

16:08

Oh, you'd have been happy with 10?

16:10

If you walked out with 10, you

16:13

go, yeah, I got a pocket full

16:15

of money now, buddy, I'm gonna buy

16:17

something. So yeah, we weren't making any

16:19

money. We worked, you know, we worked

16:21

several nights. We weren't making over $25

16:23

for anything. Now some of the older

16:26

guys were, so like Rod Price was

16:28

champion, he was getting a little bit

16:30

more money, maybe get as much as

16:32

a hundred bucks. But again, that's not

16:34

enough to live off of. So chat

16:36

me up, when you're saying you were

16:39

training with Brad, you know, I've never

16:41

really spent any time talking anyone who

16:43

trained with Brad. Did he have a

16:45

traditional school? Was it more primitive in

16:47

a barn like where in Ghana? Like

16:49

what was it like training with Brad?

16:52

I love Brad Rangas and I'm so

16:54

fortunate and lucky to be able to

16:56

go up there. You know, Brad was

16:58

the 1980 Greco-Roman world champion. They say

17:00

he's probably USA's best Greco-Roman. He would

17:02

have been the gold medalist, but that's

17:05

when Carter boy caught it because of

17:07

the Russia Olympics. You know, and Brad

17:09

had this incredible reputation, man. If they

17:11

had had USC back there, Brad would

17:13

have been champion for a very long

17:15

time. He's the one guy that could...

17:18

could probably handle Billy Robbs, maybe Jack

17:20

Brisco also. Not that he could handle

17:22

Jack Brisco, Jack, you know, had that

17:24

famous wrestling match with Billy down in

17:26

a hotel down in Australia that neither

17:28

one would talk about, but apparently it

17:30

was a hell of a fight. Brad

17:33

was wonderful. So I went down, I

17:35

got hold of Brad, I was playing

17:37

in the World Football League of American

17:39

Football, was playing as San Antonio. Jason

17:41

Garrett was our quarterback who ended up

17:43

being the coach of Dallas Cowboys. Mike

17:46

Riley, coach Nebraska was our coach. Wonderful

17:48

man. Vincent, whose brother on The Saints

17:50

was the owner. Terrific. I love being

17:52

down there. And the second season, I

17:54

got cut and I met. Randy Thornton

17:56

who had wrestled in Japan and he

17:59

has told me about the wrestling. I'd

18:01

always want to be a wrestler. I

18:03

just was hoping I'd play football a

18:05

long time. But when football didn't pan

18:07

out, I asked Randy, I said, how

18:09

do you get trained? And he said,

18:12

how do you get trained? And he

18:14

said, the best trainer in the world

18:16

is Brad Ruggins. And I said, well,

18:18

is that who trained you? He said,

18:20

yeah. And I can't remember, who are

18:22

you? And I said, I just played

18:25

pro football. I'm a lifetime wrestling fan.

18:27

I got cut. I want to come

18:29

up and train if I can. And

18:31

Brad took me in. He said, come

18:33

on up. I was like $2,500 or

18:35

something at the time. He hooked me

18:38

up with a place to stay in

18:40

a basement of a friend of his.

18:42

And we trained in his basement. And

18:44

we trained, you know, like Greco woman

18:46

guys, man. It was... It was beyond

18:48

subhuman sometimes. You know we had Frank

18:51

Anderson was there world champion out of

18:53

Sweden that would train with us. Reggie

18:55

Bennett, the lady wrestler, who's fantastic wrestler,

18:57

Charlie Norris was up there training guys,

18:59

but a lot of the Minnesota guys

19:01

would come through there. You know he

19:04

helped train the road warriors, he trained

19:06

Vader, he trained Brock. You know Brad

19:08

was the best, one of the best

19:10

trainers in the world. And back then

19:12

you got your calling card by trainers.

19:14

So if you were trained by Hero

19:17

Matt Soota, if you're trained by Billy

19:19

Robinson, if you were trained by Gotts,

19:21

or you trained by Ryngins, you got

19:23

jobs because of who you train with.

19:25

And when I got up there, we

19:27

had to shoot for conditioning. And so

19:29

Brad, you know, I'm this guy that

19:32

comes out of football. You can tell

19:34

Brad to salivate to get me on

19:36

the bat. He stretched me for months.

19:38

I mean, just day after day after

19:40

day after day. I loved it. I

19:42

loved it. Beat me every single time,

19:45

you know, but he never hurt me.

19:47

He could have he never abused me

19:49

You know, so when people say it's

19:51

so hard people talk a lot of

19:53

stuff about he wrote Matt pseudo people

19:55

talk about Billy Robinson Brad was not

19:58

like that Brad was not a guy

20:00

who took advantage of guys. Brad was

20:02

a guy who trained you incredibly hard.

20:04

We had a stupid tree. It was

20:06

about a five or six foot tall

20:08

tree and so smooth from guy's suplexing

20:11

it. And you would sit there and

20:13

hear this huge log. All you'd do

20:15

is suplex it. You'd suplex this freaking

20:17

log all over the place. It was

20:19

really, really hard. But I loved it.

20:21

I loved the work. I loved being

20:24

part of it. And Brad was such

20:26

a charismatic charismatic guy. that I just

20:28

thought man this is exactly where I

20:30

want to be. Yeah I love to

20:32

hear you talk about that and I

20:34

think about Brad you know I think

20:37

he's probably one of those classic trainers

20:39

in pro wrestling like look at the

20:41

laundry list of guys he put in

20:43

like there's such history there and now

20:45

you're a member of that club that

20:47

I'll admit I didn't know but Brad's

20:50

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elevate your wardrobe today. So John, you

22:20

know, we're learning a little bit about

22:23

Brad, but I've also heard you give

22:25

some credit to like Blackbar and Johnny

22:27

Mantel. How does that work in your

22:29

training? Is that sort of phase one

22:31

is Brad and Minnesota and then Blackbard

22:33

and Johnny Mantell in Texas? Sir, taught

22:36

me through that. That's exactly what it

22:38

is. You know, Brad's the one that

22:40

trained me, unequivocally Brad's the one that

22:42

trained me and got me through and

22:44

got me ready. And by the way,

22:46

people always ask whether there are other

22:49

people in your class. There was, there

22:51

were two other people in my class

22:53

and I don't even remember their names.

22:55

They never made it in wrestling to

22:57

my knowledge. They were never around. So

22:59

I don't, I have no idea what

23:02

happened what happened those guys. But when

23:04

I went down to Dallas, you know,

23:06

Brad had such a such a big

23:08

name. that when I knocked on the

23:10

door, it was like four o'clock in

23:12

the afternoon and James Beard answered, literally

23:14

he goes, can I help you? I

23:17

said, yeah, I want a job. And

23:19

he said, he just started laughing. He

23:21

goes, are you a wrestler? I said,

23:23

well, I don't know if I am

23:25

or not. I've been trained. And I

23:27

just started laughing. He goes, are you

23:30

a wrestler? I said, well, I don't

23:32

know if I am or not. I've

23:34

been trained. And I've trained you. And

23:36

I've trained. And I've been trained this

23:38

guy. And I've been trained this guy.

23:40

And Akbar says, what have you done?

23:43

I said, well, I was a football

23:45

player. I played little pro football as

23:47

the All-American, that I've been in train

23:49

with Brad, I just got done. And

23:51

I said, I haven't had any matches,

23:53

I don't know anything about the business.

23:56

And, but because Brad trained me, I

23:58

was in, absolutely in, that's how big

24:00

a name he had at the time.

24:02

But when I got down there, you

24:04

know, you got to understand when we

24:06

were trained, this is always interesting to

24:09

me when I talked with the guys

24:11

about training. I wasn't smartened up anything.

24:13

You know, Blackbar will say I was

24:15

never smart enough, but I was never

24:17

smart enough to anything. I wasn't smart

24:19

enough to match us, how finishes work.

24:22

You know, we would just do stuff.

24:24

That's all we would do. I remember

24:26

asking Brad one time, he had a

24:28

match who was showing us just for

24:30

learning. And he said something about doing

24:32

the jizob. And I had no idea

24:35

what he said, well, he said something

24:37

about doing the jizob. And I had

24:39

no idea what he said, because I

24:41

didn't like you thought it was a

24:43

shoot. You did not. But you weren't

24:45

smart enough to a lot of stuff

24:48

in the business. And so when I

24:50

got down to Texas, there always was

24:52

guys like Black Bart, but they would

24:54

put you in the ring with that

24:56

would teach you on the job. Bart

24:58

did that with Dustin Ronald's. Tony St.

25:01

Clair did that with me in Europe.

25:03

Finley did that with guys. Bart was

25:05

one of those guys. So they stuck

25:07

me out there with Bart. And Bart

25:09

would walk me through everything. Not one

25:11

time do we talk over, even the

25:13

finish in the back. We would just

25:16

go out there and Bart would say

25:18

just listen to the kid and I

25:20

would sit there and every once in

25:22

a while I'd try to call something

25:24

and Bart would tell me afterwards when

25:26

it made sense or not. The most

25:29

part I just listened and Bart was

25:31

basically a finisher for guys that you

25:33

always had guys like that in the

25:35

territory and Bart was one of those

25:37

guys. Now Johnny Mantell no. I worked

25:39

with Johnny a lot but he was

25:42

not. Johnny may have been in the

25:44

same role. He tagged with Bart, but

25:46

you know it was kind of... And

25:48

Johnny did help me a ton. I

25:50

got a lot of love and respect

25:52

for Johnny, but not, he did not

25:55

work with me like Bart did. Let's

25:57

talk. little bit about you know global

25:59

just as a whole we've talked a

26:01

little bit about global in the archives

26:03

but as a reminder there is an

26:05

opportunity here to build a new promotion

26:08

that I guess falls in the lap

26:10

of Joe Pedocino so Joe Pedocino is

26:12

a major figure from that era of

26:14

pro wrestling and he had a channel

26:16

out of Atlanta. where he would program

26:18

like a marathon block of pro wrestling

26:21

from all over the country and he

26:23

would have his wife do the wrap

26:25

around she was a very attractive lady

26:27

and and one of these fellows who

26:29

winds up watching the programming based out

26:31

of Atlanta is a man who claims

26:34

to be a Nigerian multi-millionaire businessman who

26:36

comes to visit Joe one day and

26:38

says hey I want to invest 25

26:40

million dollars in a new startup national

26:42

wrestling company and I want you to

26:44

run it Joe. And I guess everybody's,

26:47

you know, radar goes off that thinks,

26:49

I don't know, this sounds all the

26:51

way legit. But I guess Joe checked

26:53

him out and some business people that

26:55

he knew in Atlanta verified that no,

26:57

they knew this guy and it was

26:59

legit. Well, as you may imagine, it

27:02

wasn't legit. But I think at that

27:04

point, maybe people knew where what was

27:06

real and what wasn't. What had you

27:08

heard about Global when you get to

27:10

the company? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I knew.

27:12

I knew nothing about anything. I didn't

27:15

read the dirt sheets. I never did.

27:17

You know, when we first started, if

27:19

you had dirt sheets, you'd be fired

27:21

with dirt sheets. You know, guys just,

27:23

that wasn't something you did. And Brad's

27:25

old school. I mean, you're not even

27:28

dead dirt sheets and Brad's school. You

27:30

know, he just, he's sitting there training

27:32

guys in a basement in a dungeon

27:34

dungeon in a dungeon with a tree.

27:36

You're suplexing a suplexing a tree. You're

27:38

suplexing a tree. Last thing you got

27:41

is some freaking dirt sheet hanging around

27:43

it. You're just trying to survive. So

27:45

I didn't know anything about any. I

27:47

didn't know anything about WCE, I didn't

27:49

know anything about WCPW, I didn't know

27:51

anything about Crockett, I didn't know anything

27:54

about Portland, didn't know anything about Japan,

27:56

Mexico, Europe, you name the territory. I

27:58

knew absolutely nothing about it. Just what

28:00

I heard anecdotally from the wrestlers and

28:02

nobody was talking about global. You know,

28:04

when they knew they had the ESP

28:07

and deal, they also knew they weren't

28:09

making any money. It's interesting because there's

28:11

always two sides to the story even

28:13

about global Gary Pearson is going to

28:15

have a version of global wrestling and

28:17

it's a different model where he's gonna

28:20

stop using so many fly-ins he's going

28:22

to cater to the hardcore die-hard few

28:24

hundred fans who want their usual seats

28:26

at the sportatorium. But he's gonna blanket

28:28

all of Dallas with comp tickets to

28:30

try to fill it up and make

28:33

it look good for TV. And that

28:35

got criticized a lot of the newsletters

28:37

and people would call, you know, Gray

28:39

Pearson a money mark and things like

28:41

that because he didn't understand business and

28:43

he's given tickets away. But your buddy

28:46

James Beard says actually quite the opposite.

28:48

He was the permanent tenant of the

28:50

sportitorium. So he got to keep all

28:52

the concessions. So if you understand like

28:54

the comedy club business model, if you

28:56

don't have an act that's selling a

28:58

bunch of tickets. The comedy club will

29:01

give away a bunch of tickets because

29:03

they want you to come in and

29:05

they have a two-item minimum. They want

29:07

you to, you know, use their restaurant.

29:09

I mean, on some level, that's what

29:11

comedy clubs often exist to do is

29:14

sell you booze and sell you food,

29:16

mark it up, and this guarantees that

29:18

they're going to have a full house

29:20

because they've got a headliner. So I

29:22

get that business model of, hey, let's

29:24

just get them in here and get

29:27

them drinking and get them eating, and

29:29

we're going to make money one way

29:31

or another. When you first get to

29:33

Global, is this really your first exposure

29:35

of how the business works? What sort

29:37

of shocked you the most about just

29:40

the dynamic of how these promotions operate?

29:42

Well, now also, Gray had gave away,

29:44

had, he had to pay for parking.

29:46

So yeah, everybody who came in, he

29:48

had, he had really good parking attendance,

29:50

who would not let anybody sneak in.

29:53

So, I mean, Gray created a really

29:55

good business, but I liked Gray, I

29:57

liked Gray. Gray was a, I think,

29:59

a very honest guy, a very good

30:01

guy. Akbar ran the booking for the

30:03

most part, to my understanding. I don't

30:06

think that was Gray. Maybe some of

30:08

the actors that came in was, you

30:10

know, that was something that Act would

30:12

not have done. So that was definitely

30:14

Gray. But Gray had figured out a

30:16

different business model. And we had put

30:19

70 people in that huge building. I

30:21

mean, it was... Terrible. You know, people

30:23

were not used to paying. You know,

30:25

they've been papering that building for a

30:27

very long time. And if anybody out

30:29

there has ever been the sportitorium on

30:32

the corner of Katie's and industrial's, the

30:34

lot is still there. There's a little

30:36

river there, creek that was full of

30:38

pollution, little liquor store, that had a

30:40

bunch of homeless people at it. This

30:42

was in the hood. I mean, in

30:45

the hood. So you had the sportatorium

30:47

right down the street, you had a

30:49

long-horp ballroom. And so I can't emphasize

30:51

that enough. It was hard to get

30:53

people to come there. You know, especially

30:55

if you're going to pay a huge

30:57

ticket fee. So you just give away

31:00

a ton of tickets. They come watch

31:02

wrestling. Everybody in Dallas knew about the

31:04

Vonnerks and the free birds. Everybody knew

31:06

about the sportitorium. You get a free

31:08

ticket. A lot of people are tempted

31:10

to try it out. That's one reason

31:13

they had parking attendance that were really

31:15

good because of the... neighborhood that we

31:17

were in, they would protect the cars

31:19

and make sure nothing would happen. That's

31:21

why people didn't mind paying as much

31:23

for parking as they did, because it

31:26

was also for safety. But Gray figured

31:28

out a different model. And the rest

31:30

of the Dallas did not run on

31:32

that model, you know, trying to sell

31:34

house shows and spot shows and stuff

31:36

like that. But the sportatorium did. One

31:39

of the other things that they're going

31:41

to make money with is photos with

31:43

the baby faces, picture money, as Jeff

31:45

Cherry would call it. They're going to

31:47

start doing those in the lobby of

31:49

the sportatorium for $5 a pop. They're

31:52

going to kick in a dollar to

31:54

the promotion for every photo taken, but

31:56

it is a way for the talent

31:58

to make a little more money. One

32:00

of the things they try, and it

32:02

doesn't last very long, but John Tatum

32:05

got to be the booker for a

32:07

bit. He had some pretty crazy out

32:09

there ideas, but it seemed to be

32:11

working. One of the things he did

32:13

is he hired an actor and actor,

32:15

maybe that was inspired by the Jamies

32:18

and character that we saw on the

32:20

WWDF to just be around and associated

32:22

associated with the product. Did you spend

32:24

any time sort of listening to John

32:26

Tatum's ideas or do you have any

32:28

relationship with John Tatum? You can share

32:31

with him. No, thank goodness. I wasn't

32:33

there for John Tatum's run. I was

32:35

there, I came there right afterwards and

32:37

so I missed Tatum's run. The only

32:39

guy really drew there was Eric Embry

32:41

and Al Perez. You know, after the

32:43

Bonericks and the free birds had left,

32:46

you know, they came back during this

32:48

time and Eric Embry did a really

32:50

good job. Al Perez as a champion

32:52

Drew. with good good crowds good money

32:54

but after that it was just dead

32:56

and there wasn't really anybody who drew

32:59

anything until great Pearson you know and

33:01

great Pearson figured out the model to

33:03

make it work paid him I worked

33:05

with John a lot you know Hollywood

33:07

was you know he's the one that

33:09

got Michael Hayes in the business by

33:12

the way I don't know if you

33:14

knew that in Pensacola yeah Michael was

33:16

the hook up for weed for the

33:18

boys at age 15 years old so

33:20

I know you can believe that you

33:22

can believe that And Tatum's dad on

33:25

the Pensacola ground, he and Michael are

33:27

pretty good friends. And John was a

33:29

really good worker. Man, John could get...

33:31

I mean, really, really good heat. You

33:33

know, I was surprised that John never

33:35

made it anywhere else, you know, because

33:38

he was a guy I thought could

33:40

have done really well, you know, in

33:42

W&E or W. But you got to

33:44

understand also at that time, Texas was

33:46

as big as anywhere. I don't think

33:48

people knew what guys were making up

33:51

in New York as they called it,

33:53

you know, W. W. E. But, you

33:55

know, guys were making big money. They're

33:57

huge stars. And there are all kinds

33:59

of perks and benefits. you know he

34:01

would have been a huge star in

34:04

WDB and you know he stayed because

34:06

of Fritz you know but when you're

34:08

that biggest star it's kind of like

34:10

Tommy Wildfire Rich or the Rock and

34:12

Roll Boys you know there's no reason

34:14

to go anywhere else and Tatum was

34:17

like that you know Tatum was one

34:19

of these guys that was a big

34:21

star in Dallas. I do want to

34:23

ask you you know when you're it's

34:25

hard to sort of even getting the

34:27

mindset of what the business was like

34:30

back then because it is a time

34:32

for transition like The heyday of the

34:34

80s is over. You know, we're not

34:36

really playing the sold out arenas in

34:38

the WWF or W CW. I mean,

34:40

was your timing off? I mean, did

34:42

you think there was an upside? I

34:45

mean, at this point, it definitely feels

34:47

like you're coming into an industry on

34:49

the downswing. Did you know that at

34:51

the time? Absolutely. It was the, kind

34:53

of right, it was the shit. It

34:55

was terrible. you know and I when

34:58

I got cut from the World Football

35:00

League thank goodness the two things I

35:02

had done I was I'm 15 hours

35:04

short of a college degree because I

35:06

had to leave early because back then

35:08

when you got picked up by a

35:11

pro team that the first training camp

35:13

or whatever the camps where they were

35:15

you know the the non voluntary camps

35:17

that you better show up to was

35:19

before finals. So I dropped out of

35:21

school, so I'm about 15 hours short.

35:24

But I coached one year at Trinity

35:26

Valley Community College with Carl Andras, who

35:28

was a terrific coach, great guy. And

35:30

as where John Randall went to. went

35:32

to community college, junior college back then,

35:34

they called it, and Nick Vennexo went

35:37

there. Sean Camp was there for a

35:39

short time, a great little college there

35:41

in Athens, Texas, but I was like

35:43

a graduate assistant because I didn't have

35:45

a college degree. So then I played

35:47

pro football, I've played pro football, I'm

35:50

not qualified to do much at anything

35:52

in the world. And so I went

35:54

to the unemployment office and the guy

35:56

just kind of laughed, he goes, what

35:58

do you want to do? I want

36:00

to be a be a wrestler. And

36:03

he said, well, what are you going

36:05

to do to be a wrestler? I

36:07

said, I'm going up to Minnesota, told

36:09

him all about Brad Ryingen's when I'm

36:11

going to do the train. And he

36:13

said, okay, that's great. He goes, well,

36:16

here's what it is. You're going to

36:18

get 220 bucks a week. And he

36:20

says, you've got to check in with

36:22

me. He said, you can't take a

36:24

check in with me. He said, you

36:26

can't take a job that you can't

36:29

take a job. That's how I made

36:31

a living and not I made a

36:33

living, but I you know, that's how

36:35

I paid my bills. So I was

36:37

getting a little bit of money from

36:39

wrestling, but I'm sitting there thinking, man,

36:41

I've missed the heyday. I missed the

36:44

Von Ericks. I missed the freebirds. I

36:46

missed Al Perez and Eric Imbrey. I

36:48

missed the Russellmania era. I missed Hogan.

36:50

I've missed everything and I'm beginning to

36:52

think, you know, this may have been

36:54

a terrible career decision. It's what I

36:57

wanted to do. But I really thought

36:59

I'd miss the boat on us. The

37:01

timing is everything, man, and it's awfully

37:03

important. But we're going to hear that,

37:05

you know, you wind up making your

37:07

debut in a major angle, saving the

37:10

big baby face. It's going to happen

37:12

in early October 1992. But let's first

37:14

talk about how you landed on the

37:16

name, John Hawk. I've never asked you

37:18

this, but about five years prior to

37:20

this, Sylvester Stallone, played a character. Lincoln

37:23

Hawk in the movie Over the Top

37:25

was it in? inspired by that or

37:27

where do you land on John Hall?

37:29

No, is inspired by killer Tim Brooks.

37:31

I walk into a villa in and

37:33

killer says, what's your name? I said,

37:36

John Layfield. And of course, I know

37:38

exactly who killer is, because I'm a

37:40

wrestling fan. And he's, and he, and

37:42

killer was a really nice man. He

37:44

says, guy was, that guy was double

37:46

tough. As we always said, he was

37:49

a tough, tough man, but a good

37:51

man, a really good guy, a really

37:53

good guy. A really good guy. A

37:55

really good guy. A really good guy.

37:57

A really good guy. A really good

37:59

guy. A really good guy. A really

38:02

good guy. A really good guy. A

38:04

really good guy. A really good guy.

38:06

A really good guy. A really good

38:08

guy. A really good guy. A really

38:10

good guy. A really good guy. A

38:12

really good guy. been a rest that

38:15

started wrestle. And again, it was the

38:17

only time I ever saw him. I

38:19

never saw him again. And I believe

38:21

his name was Bishop Hawk. I believe

38:23

was the name of the wrestler. He

38:25

said, well, you look like his cousin.

38:27

He goes, I'm gonna name you John

38:30

Hawk. I said, well, I'm gonna name

38:32

you John Hawk. I said, okay, fine.

38:34

I didn't care. Well, I saw on

38:36

cage match, because I was trying not

38:38

brother cousin. had no show the event

38:40

due to travel problems. He didn't know

38:43

show because he's, you know, didn't show

38:45

travel problems. They put me in the

38:47

match with Rod, my very first match.

38:49

I'm in there with the champion. And

38:51

so I tried to find him on

38:53

Cage match and two weeks before my

38:56

first match that I saw with Black

38:58

Bart, which was definitely not my first

39:00

match. There was a John Bishop that

39:02

wrestled about Rod price. So I think

39:04

they conflated the two and made me

39:06

John. Not John Hall, not Bishop, all

39:09

John Bishop, because I never heard of

39:11

a guy named John Bishop. I'm sure

39:13

that was me and I'm sure that

39:15

was that was my debut. So when

39:17

you have your first match like this,

39:19

your first match ever is going to

39:22

be for the global championship. I'm not

39:24

trying to be funny. I know in

39:26

this era we all called it in

39:28

the ring. That was the way business

39:30

was done. These days we know there

39:32

is more of a conversation, more of

39:35

a plan going into the into the

39:37

match. But for your first match, do

39:39

you have a plan or are you

39:41

still... No. No, and it would have

39:43

done any good. I didn't know what

39:45

to drop down or... I didn't know

39:48

any of that stuff. You know, I

39:50

knew how to do the moves. I

39:52

didn't know what they're called. I mean,

39:54

I didn't know when I can't. We

39:56

were not smart enough back then to

39:58

stuff like that. You figured it all

40:01

out in the rain. And so Rod

40:03

was the perfect guy. Rod Price was

40:05

a great worker, by the way. Rod

40:07

was a guy we always thought would

40:09

go to W. W. W. W. W.

40:11

W. E. Get a great body. Could

40:14

talk. Could talk. Could talk. Could talk.

40:16

Could talk. Could talk. Could talk. Could

40:18

talk. Could talk. They said, hey, if

40:20

he can go take him as long

40:22

as you can, 15, 20 minutes, if

40:24

he can't, just go two minutes and

40:26

squash him. And Rod was such a

40:29

good dude, he could have squashed me,

40:31

you know, and no one would have

40:33

been mad at him. I'm down there

40:35

just to get a job. I had

40:37

no idea what kind of job. I

40:39

had no idea what a wrestling job

40:42

is. And all of a sudden, I'm

40:44

in there with the chance, and the

40:46

main event, my first match, my first

40:48

match, and Rod, just like an old

40:50

pro, took me. 15, 20 minutes, whatever

40:52

it was, took me a long time

40:55

out there. Just called everything to me,

40:57

nice and calm. James Beard was out

40:59

there with me, talking to me the

41:01

whole time. I mean, they got me

41:03

through. It was absolutely remarkable. But Rod,

41:05

and I was well trained, but I

41:08

didn't know anything about matches or how

41:10

to put stuff together or heat or

41:12

anything else. Rod just sit there and

41:14

talked to me the whole time. I

41:16

mean, a true old pro taking care

41:18

of a young kid. All I've ever

41:21

heard is complementary things about Rod Price.

41:23

I know we had a cup of

41:25

coffee with ECW, but he never really

41:27

did have a major run with WWF

41:29

or WWW. Why do you think that

41:31

is? Don't know. Rod's the one guy

41:34

we all thought would make it. We

41:36

were all working men. We all knew

41:38

that Booker T and Stevie would make

41:40

it. There was not a doubt in

41:42

anybody's mind. Rod was the other guy

41:44

that we thought would make it, you

41:47

know, in WCPW or WWV for the

41:49

time. with auto. He was there a

41:51

full season, did a great job. Guys

41:53

locked in me, good worker. I figured

41:55

he would go on and, you know,

41:57

like I was going to do and

42:00

go to W or W. And for

42:02

some reason he didn't. And it's in

42:04

a applicable to me. He had the

42:06

talent, he had the look, he had

42:08

the intelligence, he had everything that you

42:10

think, and he had a great career.

42:13

For some reason, though, he didn't make

42:15

it to W.C.W. and W.W.E. And I

42:17

think that's the one thing in Texas

42:19

that people would say, who's the one

42:21

guy that you thought would make it

42:23

big and didn't? And Rod Price. I

42:25

don't think there's, I think everybody would

42:28

list Rod is number one because he

42:30

had absolutely everything. He was great in

42:32

Japan. He was really over. He did,

42:34

Rod was a really good worker and

42:36

inexplicable to me why he didn't get

42:38

a 10, 15 year run in W.C.W.

42:41

or something. So this is going to

42:43

be your first match. It's also going

42:45

to be on television. Not to be

42:47

that guy, but I got to ask,

42:49

are you inviting family to the match?

42:51

Are you telling them to at least

42:54

watch you on TV or are you

42:56

trying to keep this secret because you

42:58

don't know how this is going to

43:00

go yet? No, I got home at

43:02

the, oh my God, I was living

43:04

at home, you know, because I didn't

43:07

have any place to live. And I

43:09

got home at, oh my God, late,

43:11

late, in the, in the, in the

43:13

morning. And, uh, plus, Manny Fernandez and

43:15

Butchery took me out afterwards, which was

43:17

not, which, uh, was, was wilder than

43:20

anything else. And, uh, so my, my

43:22

dad has been next day. He goes,

43:24

I can rustle in the main event.

43:26

He goes, you're kidding, you're. anybody to

43:28

the matches. I mean, our college roommates

43:30

were huge supporters. John Busing, who was

43:33

a state trooper for many years, came

43:35

to a lot of my matches. He

43:37

came to the famous, the loser leaves

43:39

town match with the Free Birds. But

43:41

I had a lot of support for

43:43

my college roommates and stuff. The fan,

43:46

my family didn't come to much. My

43:48

sister did, but that was about it.

43:50

I know a lot of us were

43:52

plopping down, firing up ESPN, grabbing a

43:54

big ball of cereal and enjoying a

43:56

little rasseling. I think when we grew

43:59

up... we realize maybe I don't need

44:01

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44:35

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44:37

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44:40

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44:42

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44:44

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44:56

spoon Hold on to the dream. So

44:58

listen, let's talk about it man. You

45:00

have your first match and it's for

45:02

the title. It's on TV and afterwards

45:05

you go out drinking. Tell me about

45:07

that first day your first in ring

45:09

experience. Are you nervous going to the

45:11

ring? Are you thankful when it's over?

45:13

Are you relieved? Just talk me through it.

45:16

I was relieved after I was

45:18

look. I didn't know anything to

45:20

expect. I didn't know enough to

45:22

be nervous. You know I knew

45:24

I was out there with an

45:26

old pro, Rod talked to me

45:28

and he was very confident of

45:30

what he could do, you know,

45:32

and that exuded, that confidence exuded

45:35

from Rod so much that it

45:37

made me feel better. You know,

45:39

he knew he had a young

45:41

kid that no idea what he

45:43

was doing. And, you know, Rod

45:45

and I, you know, later, it

45:48

still are pretty good friends.

45:50

with Brad. So I knew I knew I knew all the moves,

45:52

but you know getting out there in front of the

45:54

crowd just it was like a new world to

45:56

me. Rod was calling stuff and calling all these

45:58

different things. It was really cool. being out there

46:01

and seeing how the whole inner thing

46:03

works. I remember being in a match

46:05

one time and somebody said hit the

46:07

tizzag and that was the first time

46:09

I realized what Kearney was. You know

46:12

that's how we learned back then. You

46:14

didn't you didn't learn by people saying

46:16

okay now here's what the binocular is.

46:18

Here's what this means. Here's what Kearney

46:20

is. You had to learn by picking

46:23

it up. We got to I mean

46:25

I really can't overstate how big a

46:27

deal this was. This is wrestling on

46:29

ESPN. Now, no, ESPN is not what

46:31

it was. I mean, like, ESPN back

46:34

then was just looking for content. It's

46:36

not necessarily the multi-billion dollar juggernaut that

46:38

it is today, but still it was

46:40

a big opportunity. And it's cable television.

46:42

And I guess what I'm looking for

46:45

here, John, is do you, when you

46:47

make appearances and so forth, do you

46:49

hear from fans ever, hey, I remember

46:51

seeing you on Global back in the

46:53

day? Yeah, I do. You know, back

46:56

then there wasn't, you know, great stuff

46:58

on television, especially during the day. You

47:00

know, great sports stuff. You know, nowadays

47:02

you got a million different things. You

47:05

can pick up soccer in Europe. You

47:07

got a million different things going on

47:09

that you can pick up on television.

47:11

Back then there was it. They had

47:13

wrestling. And then that was it. So

47:16

a lot of people watched this. So

47:18

I still hear people from, hey, I've

47:20

watched you at Global, I watched you

47:22

with the awesome kongs, I watched you

47:24

with Scott Puthty. You know, it's so

47:27

cool to hear people be able to

47:29

be able to be able to be

47:31

able to be able to be able

47:33

to be able to be able to

47:35

be able to be able to be

47:38

able to be able to say. When

47:40

you talk about the opportunity, Conrad, I

47:42

go from wrestling school. And by the

47:44

way, I called Brad that day, Brad

47:46

Rangitz. And I said, Brad, I just

47:49

got a job. He goes, congratulations. He

47:51

said, where are you? I said, I'm

47:53

in Texas. I'm in Texas. And he

47:55

goes, I'm in Texas. And he goes,

47:57

oh, I'm in Texas. And he goes,

48:00

oh, so I'm in Texas. And he

48:02

goes, oh good. I'm in Texas. I'm

48:04

in Texas. I'm in Texas. I'm in

48:06

Texas. I'm in Texas. I'm in Texas.

48:08

I'm in Texas. And he goes, I'm

48:11

in Texas. I'm in Texas. I'm in

48:13

Texas. I'm in Texas. I'm in Texas.

48:15

I'm in Texas. I'm in Texas. I'm

48:17

in Texas. I'm in Texas. I'm in

48:19

Texas. I'm in Texas. I'm in Texas.

48:22

He goes, you didn't tell him you

48:24

could work, did you? And because he's

48:26

worried about his name now, because he

48:28

trained me, he's like, if I screw

48:31

up, I've sunk him, which I don't

48:33

blame him. And I said, no, I

48:35

told him I never had a match

48:37

for him. He goes, John, tell them

48:39

you don't know how to work. I

48:42

said, Brad, I told him all this,

48:44

they are stuck, they stuck me in

48:46

this thing as this old Texas boy.

48:48

And he goes, oh my God, he

48:50

just laughed, he just laughed, he just

48:53

laughed, he thought it was laugh, he

48:55

thought it was laugh, he thought it

48:57

was laugh, he thought it was, he

48:59

thought it was, he thought it was,

49:01

he thought it was, he thought it

49:04

was, he thought it was, he thought

49:06

it was, he thought it was, he

49:08

thought it was, he thought it was,

49:10

he thought it was, he thought it

49:12

was, he thought it was, he thought

49:15

it was, he thought it was, he

49:17

because off that main event with Rod,

49:19

because Kendall Nagasaki, Mr. Sakarata, saw me.

49:21

He didn't, he didn't know I couldn't

49:23

work. He just knows I'm a former

49:26

pro football player trained by Brad Ryngins

49:28

and I'm in the main event of

49:30

sportorial. He thinks this kid's the next

49:32

big thing. He books me in Japan.

49:34

I'm tagging with Bob Orton Jr. within

49:37

a few months. My God. I mean,

49:39

the trajectory I had, you know, it's

49:41

not like, say, a Lugar or an

49:43

angle, you know, that just, they guys,

49:46

you know, started big federations that started

49:48

on top, you know, it wasn't like

49:50

that, but I just got lucky. And

49:52

then we go down to Laredo and

49:54

Kerry von Erich was headlining a show

49:57

down there. That's where Mexico saw me.

49:59

They bring me down there and make

50:01

me the champion against Vampiro. But a

50:03

lot of it also had to do

50:05

with... being trained by Brett? Well, very

50:08

early on in your global run, I

50:10

think Blackbart and Johnny Mantel are going

50:12

to be hanging you when all of

50:14

a sudden Bobby Duncan son, who's been

50:16

a local star forever, Bobby Duncan. Well,

50:19

Bobby Duncan's son, Bobby Duncan Jr. is

50:21

going to make the save. So now

50:23

you find yourself paired with the son

50:25

of a legend. I mean, that's a

50:27

great association for a young guy in

50:30

the business, is it not? Oh my

50:32

god I love Bobby and Bobby senior

50:34

was not just a local star you

50:36

know Bobby senior broke San Martino's arm

50:38

legitimately not not a work he broke

50:41

his arm because San Martino told me

50:43

because you Texans I hate you guys

50:45

he goes freaking Hansen broke my neck

50:47

and Duncan broke my arm. And but

50:49

Duncan was a big name. He's he

50:52

was a really good worker. He was

50:54

a huge, huge man, big, tough guy

50:56

later. He was the mummy, by the

50:58

way. And Bobby, I had along with

51:01

Bobby immediately. Bobby was a four year

51:03

starter at University of Texas. Unfortunately, it

51:05

was the four years that they lost

51:07

to Oklahoma. And we're on a trip

51:09

in Japan and Korea. And Booker T

51:12

reminded Bobby so much of that, that

51:14

Bobby told him to pull the bus

51:16

over, he's going to fight Booker T.

51:18

And so I said, Bobby, you just

51:20

thurn you up. And he had called

51:23

Booker a cheerleader, because Booker was a

51:25

drum major in the band. He goes,

51:27

well, you're a cheerleader. He goes, well,

51:29

you're a cheerleader. Well, you're a cheerleader.

51:31

Well, you're a, I don't. And by

51:34

the way. Bobby Love Booker. It was,

51:36

it was, you know, everybody does. But

51:38

Bobby was terrific. And Bobby and Kerry

51:40

were real good friends. You know, Bobby

51:42

was, man, he was just, Bobby was

51:45

loaded with charisma. Bobby was a terrific

51:47

athlete. You know, started four years at

51:49

University of Texas. And we were probably

51:51

going somewhere, but his dad wanted him

51:53

to try football again. And that's when

51:56

Bobby went back to play some arena

51:58

football and got hurt again. And, you

52:00

know, that was kind of the end

52:02

of. everything athletically. Now you ended up

52:04

tagging with Stan, but that was certainly

52:07

the end of his football. But Bobby

52:09

and I were, we were starting to

52:11

get over and it was, we knew

52:13

we had a trajectory, we were going

52:16

to be somewhere pretty quick. Now I'm

52:18

kind of glad we didn't because I

52:20

don't think I was ready. I don't

52:22

know if Bobby was or not, but

52:24

I certainly wasn't ready at that time

52:27

to go somewhere big. And we would

52:29

have been somewhere big within six months

52:31

if we'd stayed together. You know, you're

52:33

your brand into the wrestling business, but

52:35

you've watched wrestling on TV before. So

52:38

I think it's a national question to

52:40

ask where you sort of start. struck

52:42

by anybody at any point? I mean,

52:44

was it sort of an out of

52:46

this world experience to realize I'm in

52:49

the locker room and I'm a part

52:51

of this and there's that guy? Who

52:53

was that guy? Did that never happen?

52:55

Yeah, Kevin von Erich and you know,

52:57

I regret it to this day. Not

53:00

that I worked Kevin, but the first

53:02

match I had Kevin. I was for

53:04

the NWA North American title and they're

53:06

putting the title on me. And I

53:08

remember sitting out there and thinking, man,

53:11

I just grew up watching this guy.

53:13

And I didn't, we didn't have a

53:15

good match. And it wasn't because of

53:17

Kevin. Kevin's a good worker. It's goes

53:19

to me. You know, I was, I

53:22

was overwhelmed by the situation. After that,

53:24

we worked a bunch of times together.

53:26

And Akbar had a long talk with

53:28

me about Kevin and, you know, Kevin

53:31

didn't mind. He could hit Kevin with

53:33

a tough, tough guy. And after that,

53:35

we had some really good matches together,

53:37

but that first match, I don't know

53:39

if it was bad, but it could

53:42

have been a lot better. And the

53:44

reason was I was overwhelmed by that.

53:46

And that being said, that really helped

53:48

me later in wrestling, because I swore

53:50

I would never be overwhelmed again. And

53:53

I really wasn't. I had able to

53:55

headline WrestleMania, I was able to wrestle,

53:57

you know, headline, you know, according to

53:59

internet, which has to be right. And

54:01

I never got overwhelmed after that, that

54:04

first time I did. It really helped

54:06

me long term, but I felt bad

54:08

because that's one of my idols. And

54:10

Kevin was so nice to me. You

54:12

know, when I got inducted into the

54:15

WDB Hall of Fame, Kevin called Michael

54:17

and said he'd be willing to induct

54:19

me. I mean, that's how close Kevin

54:21

and I were. You know, we were,

54:23

I loved Kevin. Kevin was such a

54:26

nice guy. The monarch boys, the only

54:28

ones I knew were carrying Kevin. And

54:30

I got to work either tag with

54:32

or against or wrestle against and singles.

54:34

Both those two. Several times. They were

54:37

fantastic guys. I don't know anybody who

54:39

would say anything bad about the Vonner

54:41

boys. And the only ones again. I

54:43

knew that we're carrying Kevin. They were

54:45

just fantastic guys. Kerry, by the way,

54:48

was that you mentioned the rock earlier.

54:50

He was the only guy that I

54:52

know that carried himself like the rock.

54:54

And I don't think the rock doesn't

54:57

on purpose. I think that's just God's

54:59

gift to the rock. That was God's

55:01

gift to Kerry Viner. He would go

55:03

through the airport. People would melt when

55:05

they saw him. And he's like traveling

55:08

with there's Kerry with there with me

55:10

and Bobby. One of the titles. He

55:12

was presenting them to them. And Kerry

55:14

would sit there and just real humbly

55:16

introduce himself and goes, hi, hi, I'm

55:19

Kerry Bonner, and man, people would just

55:21

melt. It was unbelievable the charisma he

55:23

had. You know, we always heard that

55:25

Vince wanted to run Texas, and the

55:27

only way that he knew that he

55:30

could do it for sure was to

55:32

get Kerry. Okay. I assume all of

55:34

that's true, because you needed Kerry, Bonner

55:36

to run Texas. So listen, you were

55:38

saying a minute ago, you were overwhelmed.

55:41

said differently. Are you saying you had

55:43

anxiety? Or what do you mean when

55:45

you say you were overwhelmed? I just

55:47

remember sitting there across from him thinking

55:49

I should be asking his autograph and

55:52

I remember thinking I don't belong here.

55:54

And I don't know if that's anxiety

55:56

or not. I don't know how to

55:58

classify it. You know, right. A psychological

56:00

term. I don't know what that was.

56:03

I just remember sitting there thinking, oh

56:05

my God, I remember when he debuted

56:07

and I'm sitting there on my grandfather's

56:09

couch watching him watching him and Now

56:12

I'm sitting there across from him and

56:14

I was thinking I should get an

56:16

autograph with I should get a picture.

56:18

Then I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm

56:20

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56:23

right, you know, thanks to his graciousness,

56:25

you know, obviously it's work. I don't

56:27

know how to classify that. I just

56:29

remember sitting there thinking I don't deserve

56:31

to be here. I got I'm not

56:34

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56:36

he is and that just gave me

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podcast. Hey, so let's talk about some

58:00

other folks sort of behind the scenes

58:02

in Global. I want to pick your

58:04

brain about. It's written here that Chris

58:06

Love is out as Booker and Eric

58:08

Embry is going to be trying to

58:11

take over some of the booking. Do

58:13

you remember Chris Love and what was

58:15

your experience like with Eric Embry? I

58:17

met Eric years later, I met him

58:19

about three years ago. And so I

58:22

don't remember when when Eric came back

58:24

there at this had to I had

58:26

to come just after after Eric because

58:28

I got to meet him at a

58:30

event a Texas roundup they call it

58:33

was up in Dallas bunch of old

58:35

wrestlers Eric flew in which I was

58:37

so I spent several hours talking to

58:39

Eric. Jerry and I have had him

58:42

on our show. Terrific guy. I love

58:44

Eric. Such a nice guy. Real smart

58:46

guy. But I never got to work

58:48

with that. He was a great booker.

58:50

He's one of the ones that kind

58:53

of rejuvenated wrestling. Now, Alpres certainly helped

58:55

as being the champion, but he's the

58:57

one that really rejuvenated Texas wrestling. I

58:59

wish I would have got to meet

59:01

him. I did not get to work

59:04

with Eric. Agbar was the booker, and

59:06

pretty much the main and only booker.

59:08

Now, Maniac Mike Davis also helped act

59:10

book at the time, which nobody's ever

59:12

kind of put that in there, but

59:15

Mike was a big help to act.

59:17

Talk to me a little bit about

59:19

the crowds, because it's written about in

59:21

The Observer that there are some shows

59:23

that Chris Lovebook, where there were only

59:26

66 paid fans. I know this is

59:28

humble beginnings for Global, and you're just

59:30

cutting your teeth, but. Talk to me

59:32

a little bit about, you know, the

59:34

dwindling crowd sizes, if you will. They

59:37

weren't dwindling. You know, right after that

59:39

was when Gray Pearson decided he was

59:41

just going to paper the whole building.

59:43

And because he got money off parking

59:45

and concessions. And so we had full

59:48

crowds. We would have sellouts, basically, at

59:50

the sportitorium. And you tell people that

59:52

go out. Nobody, you don't have to

59:54

sell at sport. Yeah, we did. Nobody

59:57

bought a ticket. I mean, nobody, I

59:59

mean, you go up there even to

1:00:01

the ticket window. There are people outside

1:00:03

go, hey, just go in for free

1:00:05

and then hand you tickets. So nobody

1:00:08

cared about the paid admission. You got

1:00:10

parking, you got concessions and you had

1:00:12

this great crowd for TV. You know,

1:00:14

now Vince, you know, always had a

1:00:16

different perspective than this. You know, when

1:00:19

we were fighting with W and our

1:00:21

crowds were bad. Vince would not pay

1:00:23

for an arena. Now you pay for

1:00:25

enough, you know, for promotion and stuff

1:00:27

like that, you know, several hundred, maybe

1:00:30

even a few thousand tickets, but Vince

1:00:32

would not pay for an arena because

1:00:34

Vince's viewpoint was people are different when

1:00:36

they buy a ticket. They're different fans.

1:00:38

They're more invested. I get all that.

1:00:41

Dallas was such a mess though, there

1:00:43

wasn't really much Gray Pearson could do.

1:00:45

And so he just papered the whole

1:00:47

arena. And so we had huge crowds.

1:00:49

We were sitting there, you know, you're

1:00:52

sitting there in front of, I don't

1:00:54

know what, I saw, I saw one

1:00:56

5,000, I don't think it was one

1:00:58

5,000, I don't think it was even

1:01:00

close, I think it was even close

1:01:03

to that. I think it was more

1:01:05

like 2,500. man you must be making

1:01:07

money we weren't making we weren't making

1:01:09

nothing but it was a great atmosphere

1:01:11

you know one of the things that

1:01:14

all promoters try to do is they

1:01:16

have some crazy out there ideas they're

1:01:18

trying to promote so one of the

1:01:20

ideas that they're doing here in global

1:01:23

is they were have Dallas Cowboys night

1:01:25

but you know we're not actually gonna

1:01:27

have any Dallas cowboys there so they're

1:01:29

doing these silly promotions but another thing

1:01:31

that happened in the South a lot

1:01:34

I talked to Tracy's mother's about this.

1:01:36

My man wrestled multiple bears. Do you

1:01:38

remember there ever being discussion about a

1:01:40

spectacle like that, John, where they may

1:01:42

have had a guy wrestle a bear?

1:01:45

No, I don't. There was a, you

1:01:47

know, a bar wrestle the bear famously

1:01:49

and quit over nothing in Mississippi or

1:01:51

somewhere. Where it was, bar, you said

1:01:53

a whole story a million times. I

1:01:56

wrestled a bear in college. Wait, wait,

1:01:58

wait, hang on. We're talking about pro

1:02:00

wrestling wrestling, but you just. This is,

1:02:02

you're doing pro wrestling after college. Right.

1:02:04

How would you wrestle a bear in

1:02:07

college if you're not a wrestler yet,

1:02:09

John? So this is, I think a

1:02:11

good story. You'll be, you'll be the,

1:02:13

you'll be the, you'll be the judge

1:02:15

if it's a good story. I love

1:02:18

it. Guys, you should go to the

1:02:20

Vincol. I got a great idea for

1:02:22

you. I will be the judge. This

1:02:24

is a good story. But I was

1:02:26

in college and I went to Abilene

1:02:29

Christian, which I love by the way.

1:02:31

Great School and I love. wonderful friends.

1:02:33

To this day, I text these guys,

1:02:35

you know, those inappropriate texts that everybody

1:02:38

has. I still got one of those

1:02:40

bunch of my old college buddies. from

1:02:42

Abilene Christian. And I love those guys,

1:02:44

Steve and John and all those guys.

1:02:46

And I, Steve and John, my two

1:02:49

colleagues had come back my senior year

1:02:51

and my junior year and I had

1:02:53

gone out with them. Well, when I

1:02:55

went to Abilene Christian, you couldn't drink.

1:02:57

The drinking age was 19 when I

1:03:00

was 19, then it went up to

1:03:02

21, but I was over 21 at

1:03:04

the time. So I went out with

1:03:06

them, had a few drinks. I came

1:03:08

back in and got busted. And so

1:03:11

the athletic director who, I mean, hated

1:03:13

me. You can't tell you how much

1:03:15

that man dislike me. And I can't

1:03:17

tell you much how much I dislike

1:03:19

that man, too. Couldn't stand him. He

1:03:22

busted me. And so I'm in trouble.

1:03:24

And I told the truth, yeah, I

1:03:26

was out. They threw the book at

1:03:28

me. Well, then we had a bad

1:03:30

year. And so they had this bull

1:03:33

in the ring, you know, you just

1:03:35

go out there and you'd... first match,

1:03:37

put him gloves on beat people up,

1:03:39

you know, and throw him out. So

1:03:41

one of the some of the freshmen

1:03:44

said, how do you think you'd do

1:03:46

against a bear? I kill a bear.

1:03:48

You know, just I'm young and you

1:03:50

know, big and strong, you know, you

1:03:53

know, you know, vervado. Well, a few

1:03:55

weeks later, I go, hey, the bears

1:03:57

here. I said, what bear? I go,

1:03:59

you said you'd wrestle a bear. There

1:04:01

was a wrestling bear. So my college

1:04:04

roommate's going out there with me, John

1:04:06

Bues, and he wrestled the bear too.

1:04:08

And I wrestled this bear. And this

1:04:10

damn thing beats me at the freaking

1:04:12

death. I mean, it was, I got,

1:04:15

I think God, it wasn't brown bear

1:04:17

mating season. But there's something bad what

1:04:19

happened. But I thought it's like a

1:04:21

300 pound bear. There it is right

1:04:23

there. It was an 850 bear. That's

1:04:26

when the bear lost it on me.

1:04:28

And that's when the bear lost it

1:04:30

lost it on me. a scar on

1:04:32

my hand that the bear had bitten

1:04:34

my hand right here and blood's coming

1:04:37

down. I mean it was a disaster.

1:04:39

That bear annihilated me. It was like

1:04:41

National Geographic. I mean, at one point,

1:04:43

I got the bear and the bear

1:04:45

was like wrestling as hard as I

1:04:48

was. Now I got $1,500 if I

1:04:50

got that bear on its back. And

1:04:52

I'm that a college kid in 1988,

1:04:54

that's equivalent of about $4 billion. So

1:04:56

I'm sitting there thinking, if I can

1:04:59

get this damn bear on its back,

1:05:01

I got $1,500. So I'm sitting there.

1:05:03

The place is packed. The bear is

1:05:05

wrestling as much as I am, so

1:05:08

I thought, you know what, I'll just

1:05:10

relax. I relax, I relax, the barrel,

1:05:12

I relax more than I was kind

1:05:14

of like dancing. When he did, I

1:05:16

grabbed him and I threw him and

1:05:19

I got him on his side, but

1:05:21

I didn't get him on his back.

1:05:23

When I got him on his side,

1:05:25

when I got him on his side,

1:05:27

that thing went national geographic. The only

1:05:30

way I can say it is that

1:05:32

bear exploded. a rug or a danceful,

1:05:34

wrestling on a wooden floor. This bear

1:05:36

beat me to death. And it throws

1:05:38

me underneath the table. Here comes this

1:05:41

bear gopping across. I mean, this is

1:05:43

like something out of freaking like a

1:05:45

zoo. This is like when animals attack.

1:05:47

This damn bear just freaking annihilated me.

1:05:49

I mean annihilated me. So I come

1:05:52

in the next morning, I'm so sore

1:05:54

and beat up, I can't even hardly

1:05:56

walk. And the head coach John Payne,

1:05:58

who's a good friend of mine, Bob

1:06:00

Shipley, by the way, shout out to

1:06:03

my dear friend, his son Jackson Shipley

1:06:05

was the great receiver at University, he's

1:06:07

my line coach, but coach Payne calls

1:06:09

me in. And he's the head coach,

1:06:11

good man. And he said, John, he's

1:06:14

a, did, yeah, I did. He goes,

1:06:16

was it in the bar? I go,

1:06:18

yeah, I was in Butterfield Junction. He

1:06:20

goes, my God, John, he goes, you're

1:06:23

on probation. He goes, they're gonna kick

1:06:25

you out of school. And I said,

1:06:27

what I do? He goes, the athletic

1:06:29

director wants to see and he wants

1:06:31

to kick you out of school. I

1:06:34

said, oh shit. I said, he goes,

1:06:36

if you got a plausible. explanation. I

1:06:38

said, yeah, I've always told the truth.

1:06:40

I said, I'm just going to lie.

1:06:42

And he goes, do you have a

1:06:45

good one? And I said, yeah, I'm

1:06:47

just going to tell him, I didn't

1:06:49

do it. And I said, there's no

1:06:51

pictures, there's no nothing. This is before

1:06:53

cell phones. There's a link, prove this.

1:06:56

So I walk into his office, this

1:06:58

guy, and he is confident and cock.

1:07:00

I said, most are true. And he

1:07:02

goes, did you wrestle a bear last

1:07:04

night? I said, what is this national

1:07:07

geographic? I said, you know how stupid

1:07:09

that sounds that I would wrestle a

1:07:11

bear on a Thursday night. And he

1:07:13

said, so your answer is no. And

1:07:15

now I realize he's got something. I

1:07:18

realize I know he's got something. I

1:07:20

know he's got something. I know he's

1:07:22

got a double down. If I. I'll

1:07:24

say yes or I'll throw a book

1:07:26

at me. They always told me if

1:07:29

you tell the truth, we're not going

1:07:31

to throw the book at you. They

1:07:33

lied. They throw the book at me

1:07:35

every time I told the truth. So

1:07:37

I thought, you know, I'm just going

1:07:40

flat lie. I said, no. He said,

1:07:42

so you're saying you didn't wrestle there.

1:07:44

Correct. And somebody had been to a

1:07:46

one hour photo and had left the

1:07:49

photo that photo in the locker room.

1:07:51

And he had it. There's actually was

1:07:53

four photos. I've only got two surviving

1:07:55

that have been around. One of the

1:07:57

ones is not that great. And he

1:08:00

threw these photos out there. And I

1:08:02

said, oh, you said bear, you said

1:08:04

bear. And I said, oh, you said

1:08:06

bear. You said bear. You said bear.

1:08:08

And I said, oh, you said bear.

1:08:11

You said, bear. You said bear. And

1:08:13

I said, oh, you said bear. You

1:08:15

said bear. And I said, but I

1:08:17

went, but I went there. kidding me.

1:08:19

So I go into everybody now is

1:08:22

taking shots at me because I was

1:08:24

I was wild. I was man I

1:08:26

was typical college guy you know I

1:08:28

didn't belong in college. I'm hung somewhere

1:08:30

else. So the dorm director was also

1:08:33

a dick. And he called me in

1:08:35

and he was trying to read me

1:08:37

the right act, you know, because now

1:08:39

I've got no power. I'm sitting there.

1:08:41

And as I'm sitting there, he's got

1:08:44

a gun on his desk. It's not

1:08:46

pointed at me, not nothing. I think

1:08:48

you had it there to kind of,

1:08:50

you know, so he's tough, you know,

1:08:52

but he never threatened me, not one

1:08:55

time. Now, you know, you know, back

1:08:57

then. Now it's a felony I think

1:08:59

to have a gun in the college

1:09:01

campus. Back then it was just Texas.

1:09:04

You know, people have guns everywhere. You

1:09:06

know, I remember guys, college roommate had

1:09:08

a shotgun in the dorm because we

1:09:10

go hunting, you know, and or go

1:09:12

shoot the road signs at least. So

1:09:15

I'm sitting there and I said, you

1:09:17

just pulled a gun on me in

1:09:19

a disciplinary session. And he looked at

1:09:21

it. He goes, no, I didn't. He

1:09:23

didn't. I'm lying. It's the only way

1:09:26

I'm gonna stay in school. I'm gonna

1:09:28

stay in school. I went and called

1:09:30

my dad and told me to put

1:09:32

a gun on me. And I remember

1:09:34

about a week later when the defensive

1:09:37

coordinator goes, you got to stop this

1:09:39

stuff, this gun. He didn't pull a

1:09:41

gun on you. I'm like, it's the

1:09:43

only way I'm staying in school, pal.

1:09:45

I'm riding this all the way. And

1:09:48

sure enough, they decided to take my

1:09:50

scholarship from me, but let me stay

1:09:52

in school. So I made all American

1:09:54

as a second team all American. I

1:09:56

made first team all conference. I had

1:09:59

to walk on as a senior as

1:10:01

a senior. Literally, I had to pay

1:10:03

for school as a senior and I'm

1:10:05

one of the first attorney all Americans

1:10:07

they'd had 30 years. So I was

1:10:10

a very bitter angry person in college.

1:10:12

You, that those seconds guy got shit

1:10:14

on you, you are the most interesting

1:10:16

man in the world. I mean your

1:10:19

life, I mean somebody suggested this on

1:10:21

Twitter and I totally agree your life

1:10:23

is a sitcom like Young Rock was

1:10:25

a piece of shit show compared to

1:10:27

your real life. I mean this is

1:10:30

make believe. Like, I just didn't have

1:10:32

any filters. I didn't have a stop

1:10:34

sign. You know, I didn't have, I

1:10:36

didn't, nothing cause and effect didn't bother

1:10:38

me. You know, which sounds great. You

1:10:41

know, people say, oh, I don't care.

1:10:43

It sounds great, but when you really

1:10:45

don't, it's like, you get yourself into

1:10:47

a lot of minds and do a

1:10:49

lot of trouble over the years because

1:10:52

I just, I just didn't give a

1:10:54

shit. Tell me a little bit about

1:10:56

how you were able to move around

1:10:58

in this era. I think I've heard

1:11:00

through the grapevine that you somehow knew

1:11:03

something about the travel industry and that

1:11:05

made it more affordable. Tell me about

1:11:07

that. Oh, this was the best deal

1:11:09

I ever did. My dad told me

1:11:11

I should take my $5,000 and throw

1:11:14

it out the window. He's this. dumbest

1:11:16

investment I've ever heard of. But I

1:11:18

knew what I was going to get

1:11:20

out of it. So my good friend,

1:11:22

Derek Collins, was a chiropractor in Athens,

1:11:25

Texas, and he loved to travel. Well,

1:11:27

back then, you got incredible benefits by

1:11:29

being a travel. So Derek wanted to

1:11:31

start up this travel agency. We were

1:11:34

buddies. So he said, hey, why don't

1:11:36

you give me $5,000? And I'll put

1:11:38

it in this travel agency. You're going

1:11:40

to get all kinds of benefits out

1:11:42

of benefits out of this. lot. I

1:11:45

gave him the $5,000. Best investment I

1:11:47

ever made. So when I was training

1:11:49

up in Minnesota, I could fly, I

1:11:51

think it was, one jet blue, it

1:11:53

was a, like a jet blue top

1:11:56

airline, I could fly a space available,

1:11:58

all I wanted up to Minneapolis. So

1:12:00

I could fly home, I could fly

1:12:02

all over the world. When I lived

1:12:04

in Europe and worked for auto, I

1:12:07

got first class train tickets. So I

1:12:09

would take the train all over Europe.

1:12:11

I mean, I went. everywhere because I

1:12:13

had this travel, I audit card, I

1:12:15

think it was at the time. I

1:12:18

went to Hawaii and on it one

1:12:20

year, I went to Cayman Islands, where

1:12:22

I met Oliver Humper, Dink, and a

1:12:24

bunch of the boys. But when I

1:12:26

was in Europe, I just, I would

1:12:29

get these train tickets. and travel all

1:12:31

over Europe and just do things, but

1:12:33

all because of this travel agent benefit.

1:12:35

You know, I was I was legitimately

1:12:37

a travel agent owner, even though Derek

1:12:40

ran it and Derek, you know, paid

1:12:42

all the bills and stuff, but Derek,

1:12:44

because my friendship put me on the

1:12:46

roll and because of this, I got

1:12:49

all these benefits and man, I traveled

1:12:51

the world, first class everywhere because I

1:12:53

had this silly little travel agent card.

1:12:55

And in fact, I was going to

1:12:57

Russia. When I was in Europe and

1:13:00

like several days to get up there

1:13:02

I had my Russia visa and everything

1:13:04

and I was on the train first

1:13:06

class Of course because I had my

1:13:08

I think it was I had a

1:13:11

car. I think it was what it

1:13:13

was and we had a train wreck

1:13:15

and I got stuck in the middle

1:13:17

of Sweden So I never never made

1:13:19

it to Russia, but I ended up

1:13:22

getting a train back and going space

1:13:24

available to go back Hey, talk to

1:13:26

me a little bit about some of

1:13:28

the names that you're sharing a locker

1:13:30

room with. I think Manny Fernandez would

1:13:33

have been here when you're here. It

1:13:35

feels like everybody's got a crazy Manny

1:13:37

Fernandez story. Do you? Oh my, of

1:13:39

course I do. Yeah, yeah, Manny, Manny,

1:13:41

through a guy, through a guy, through

1:13:44

a window in our favorite bar, through

1:13:46

a window, could have killed him. Manny,

1:13:48

look, Manny, loved to fight, he had

1:13:50

to that flying burrito, he called it.

1:13:52

Man, it looked like it killed you

1:13:55

and it was the lightest thing there

1:13:57

was. I mean, Manny was a terrific

1:13:59

worker. But Manny, you get a lot

1:14:01

calling Manny and he was different level.

1:14:03

But he threw a guy through a

1:14:06

window and not in our local bar.

1:14:08

Manny was a good guy. Manny helped

1:14:10

book some. Manny really helped me a

1:14:12

lot of the ring. I mean, Manny

1:14:15

was always very, very good to be.

1:14:17

Let's talk about some other names. There's

1:14:19

a fellow there named Metal Maniac. You

1:14:21

got any metal maniac stories you can

1:14:23

share? Somebody asked me if this was

1:14:26

true about a year ago. I can't

1:14:28

remember who asked me this if he

1:14:30

got in line and got a picture

1:14:32

with Kerry von Erick in full gimmick.

1:14:34

So he came down and I didn't

1:14:37

know him, you know, he had the

1:14:39

whole gimmick on his like an ultimate

1:14:41

warrior kind of rip off I guess

1:14:43

I don't know I didn't know him

1:14:45

and I don't know him to this

1:14:48

day But he went had his whole

1:14:50

gimmick on he walks out of the

1:14:52

dressing room and goes out where Kerry

1:14:54

is selling Polaroids gets in line in

1:14:56

phase for it Yeah, I don't remember

1:14:59

how much longer he was there, but

1:15:01

after work got around about that, it

1:15:03

wasn't, it wasn't much longer. You know,

1:15:05

you understand, like any territory, we had

1:15:07

some old guys, a really good guys,

1:15:10

with some young guys, and I'm not

1:15:12

saying maniacs and idiot, I had no

1:15:14

idea. We had some really idiots, you

1:15:16

know, and we had some pretty good

1:15:18

promising guys. What about Scott Putzki? It

1:15:21

always thought Scott would make it, you

1:15:23

know, he had to hit a great

1:15:25

body. And of course, you can't replicate

1:15:27

that name. I was like doing it

1:15:30

W.C.W. or W.B. I always thought he

1:15:32

would do really well for whatever reason.

1:15:34

I think he made it for a

1:15:36

little while, but you know, never did

1:15:38

have that big run like his dad

1:15:41

had. I got to ride with Ivan,

1:15:43

oh, one loop. You know, Ivan was

1:15:45

I think a school teacher in Austin.

1:15:47

I think, but anyway, he came in

1:15:49

because Scott was, you know, trying to

1:15:52

make it in the business. And Scott

1:15:54

had a brother, I think he had

1:15:56

a brother, maybe his dog, I can't

1:15:58

remember, trying to make as well. But

1:16:00

Scott was, it's got a great talent.

1:16:03

I mean, Scott looked, and he looked

1:16:05

fantastic. I mean, really freaking good. But

1:16:07

riding with Ivannick Monroe one time. I

1:16:09

mean it was really cool to have

1:16:11

these old guys around and and Ivan

1:16:14

was there mainly because of Scott but

1:16:16

I got the benefit of it and

1:16:18

got to share a car with him

1:16:20

on a couple towns. Let's talk a

1:16:22

little bit about Chris Adams. I mean

1:16:25

I think when people think about the

1:16:27

sportorium. He's always on the short list.

1:16:29

I know what a great performer he

1:16:31

was, the innovator of the super kick,

1:16:33

just a great mind for the business.

1:16:36

But tell us about, you know, outside

1:16:38

of the ring, Chris Adams, because this

1:16:40

has told us, because this is, you

1:16:42

know, outside of the ring, Chris Adams,

1:16:45

has told us some crazy story. I

1:16:47

guess this guy was a partier with

1:16:49

a capital P. What was your experience?

1:16:51

My experience was very good. from a

1:16:53

personal viewpoint. Chris had some demons though.

1:16:56

That man was wild. You give that

1:16:58

man some firewater as Mr. Briscoe would

1:17:00

call it and that man, you know,

1:17:02

they had to sneak him out of

1:17:04

Israel because he super kicks some kind

1:17:07

of hard. Chris was wild. I mean,

1:17:09

wow, he had a real dark side

1:17:11

to him when he would drink, you

1:17:13

know, a lot of people do. But

1:17:15

as far as being over, Chris was

1:17:18

really over, Chris was a really good

1:17:20

worker. I do know when he went

1:17:22

and talked to Vince, Chris, the selling

1:17:24

point was, you know, I can stretch

1:17:26

probably 90% of your guys. I don't

1:17:29

care. You know, Chris was, I get,

1:17:31

you know, I think a pretty tough

1:17:33

guy, you know, to do his judo

1:17:35

and all that stuff. Chris's problem was

1:17:37

his own personal demons. I wasn't there

1:17:40

the night that he pulled the weave

1:17:42

mistakenly out of rod prices head. Rod

1:17:44

had a weave in his hair. You

1:17:46

know, Rod now is clean shaving. And

1:17:48

Chris, by mistake, they wouldn't do a

1:17:51

judo match. Rod didn't really want to

1:17:53

do it. It wasn't a shoot. Chris,

1:17:55

I don't think, did it on purpose.

1:17:57

But he went to grab him and

1:18:00

throw him and he pulled up the

1:18:02

weave out of his hair. And Rod

1:18:04

was so mad, he went across the

1:18:06

street to I think it's something drink.

1:18:08

There was that liquor store right across

1:18:11

the street and all of blood. Man,

1:18:13

it was, I don't know how many

1:18:15

it was, it was tens. of stitches

1:18:17

that Rod had to have in his

1:18:19

hair and about I don't know a

1:18:22

couple weeks later they wrestled again and

1:18:24

Rod broke his arm. Oh wow and

1:18:26

so you believe it was an accident

1:18:28

you don't think he was ribboned and

1:18:30

me think it was an accident. I

1:18:33

don't think it was I mean Rod

1:18:35

thought it was either enough of an

1:18:37

accident or that he owed him a

1:18:39

receipt. And, you know, he, you know,

1:18:41

a couple weeks later, you know, he

1:18:44

did, there was a broken arm, you

1:18:46

know, I don't know, you know, I

1:18:48

wasn't there for the broken arm either.

1:18:50

I don't know how it happened. You

1:18:52

know, I know, I know it did

1:18:55

happen. What's protocol in that when something

1:18:57

like that happens amongst the boys? Is

1:18:59

everybody supposed to just stay out of

1:19:01

the way? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you

1:19:03

know, shit's gonna happen sooner or later

1:19:06

anyway. So, you know, what we thought

1:19:08

that's quite off the most. I mean,

1:19:10

was it that he was hurt or

1:19:12

was he embarrassed? Was he humiliated? I

1:19:15

think I've talked to Rod about it

1:19:17

since and he was on our show

1:19:19

and talked about it in detail. And

1:19:21

what made Rod the Maddis was he

1:19:23

did not want to do the judo

1:19:26

match. Rod's not a judo guy. You

1:19:28

know, Chris is he did not want

1:19:30

to do the judo match and a

1:19:32

gee and all that stuff. And Rod

1:19:34

didn't like the whole setup of the

1:19:37

whole setup of the thing. I don't

1:19:39

think Rod thought it was on purpose.

1:19:41

I don't know for sure. I've never

1:19:43

asked him that question. But Rod did

1:19:45

not want to do the judo match.

1:19:48

I know that for sure. And Chris

1:19:50

talked him into it. I mean, all

1:19:52

of a sudden this crazy thing happens.

1:19:54

And, you know, Rod is beside himself.

1:19:56

You know, Chris tried to call him

1:19:59

and I think, I don't really try

1:20:01

to make him ends or not. And

1:20:03

I think Rod said it's okay. He

1:20:05

doesn't mean you don't give a receipt

1:20:07

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Hey, so listen, we've got to a

1:22:00

few different. stories that I want to

1:22:02

hit here, but you sent me a

1:22:04

note that says upstairs was the room.

1:22:07

Talking about upstairs at the sportitorium or

1:22:09

is there a bar called upstairs? What

1:22:11

does that mean? No, there was upstairs

1:22:13

club and I believe Texas that was

1:22:15

a bar, but this had nothing to

1:22:18

do with the room with sportitorium. So

1:22:20

there was upstairs, there was the room

1:22:22

and guys would disappear in there for

1:22:24

a while. They would not come out

1:22:26

exactly the same. So there was, I

1:22:29

was never, you know. Did a lot

1:22:31

of you know, I was a drinker,

1:22:33

but that was about it and but

1:22:35

yes, there was the room upstairs that

1:22:37

guys would go in and they would

1:22:40

Come out a different person you might

1:22:42

say there's a lot of drugs and

1:22:44

alcohol back in the day You know

1:22:46

and guys fault a lot of that

1:22:48

generation We didn't know how bad stuff

1:22:51

was for us. You know guys didn't

1:22:53

know how bad pain pills were they

1:22:55

didn't know they would kill so many

1:22:57

people guys didn't know how bad concussions

1:22:59

were so you know guys did a

1:23:02

lot of things that They thought they

1:23:04

had a license to do and they

1:23:06

did that were really bad for them.

1:23:08

I don't think they knew how bad

1:23:11

they were. Listen, you know, we know

1:23:13

that America, just the world, has loosened

1:23:15

up on marijuana. We also know that

1:23:17

when marijuana wound up on the band

1:23:19

list or the WWF and they started

1:23:22

testing for that because it was an

1:23:24

illegal narcotic that maybe that boosted the

1:23:26

reliance on prescription pills. So we know

1:23:28

in 1980s, well, rock stars were doing

1:23:30

cocaine and a lot of wrestlers live

1:23:33

that rock star lifestyle. What was the

1:23:35

scene in Dallas? I know you didn't

1:23:37

participate, but you certainly heard things, right?

1:23:39

Oh yeah, and I saw it. Yeah,

1:23:41

I saw it. I wouldn't up in

1:23:44

the room, you know, but I was,

1:23:46

you know, and a bar went down

1:23:48

in the border one time when some

1:23:50

guys were doing a blow off of

1:23:52

a bar. And they, the police called

1:23:55

the police called me. Uh, not call

1:23:57

me, they came up and got me,

1:23:59

said, Harry, you with these guys? And

1:24:01

I said, yeah, what's the problem? They

1:24:03

said, they're doing blow off the freaking

1:24:06

bar. And the police didn't want to

1:24:08

arrest them, you know, they... They were

1:24:10

famous guys, you know, and so I'll

1:24:12

literally have to go down there and

1:24:14

say, guys, you really can't do cocaine

1:24:17

off the bar. It's said, that's really

1:24:19

a bad idea. So, it was everywhere,

1:24:21

you know, I don't, nobody knew how

1:24:23

bad it was, but that was, I

1:24:26

guess, the drug of choice, you know,

1:24:28

and as they say, never enjoyed the

1:24:30

cocaine, just enjoy the smell, as they

1:24:32

would always say. Guys would do that

1:24:34

before matches. You know, now you see

1:24:37

these guys and God bless them. It's

1:24:39

a different world. You know, comparing, there

1:24:41

was a guy in a buddy, a

1:24:43

friend that I knew down in Texas

1:24:45

and he wanted to get into wrestling.

1:24:48

And so I set him up with,

1:24:50

you know, Albert, Matt Bloom and it

1:24:52

didn't work out. But anyway, his dad

1:24:54

said, hey, there's too many drugs and

1:24:56

stuff in wrestling. No, no, no, comparing

1:24:59

that era to today. is like comparing

1:25:01

North Dallas 40 to today's NFL. It's

1:25:03

not even the same business that that

1:25:05

we're in. You know, nowadays it's all

1:25:07

cleaned up. It should be, and I'm

1:25:10

glad it is. But back then, it

1:25:12

was just a license to do whatever

1:25:14

you want. Hey, talk to me a

1:25:16

little bit about, you know, when you're

1:25:18

in the promotion. and you're sharing a

1:25:21

locker room with these guys. We've talked

1:25:23

about how business is down. It is

1:25:25

down everywhere else. It's down in W.C.W.

1:25:27

It's down in the W.F. But Bruce

1:25:29

has told us, you know, it was

1:25:32

common when you didn't work for the

1:25:34

W.F. You just threw shade at it.

1:25:36

So when he was in Paul Bosch's

1:25:38

territory or even when I talked to

1:25:41

Mr. Crock, you know, the narrative was

1:25:43

always, oh, that's that phony, phony stuff

1:25:45

they do in New York. Were there

1:25:47

guys in the locker room who felt

1:25:49

that way where they were sort of

1:25:52

disparaging W-W-E, but maybe the secret is

1:25:54

that I'll love to take that W-W-E

1:25:56

check? about a hundred percent of them.

1:25:58

Okay, okay. I mean, everybody in that

1:26:00

locker room bashed WDB, everybody in there

1:26:03

would bash how fake and phony it

1:26:05

was, how bad Vince McMahon was, how

1:26:07

evil he was. That's all kinds of

1:26:09

bad things about Pat. I mean, they

1:26:11

would, they would just make up stuff

1:26:14

to say about those guys. They, they

1:26:16

acted like they hated him. Every single

1:26:18

one of them would have taken a

1:26:20

job with WDB. When I got signed

1:26:22

by WDB, I came back and I

1:26:25

did a couple shows in Texas. And

1:26:27

I remember the guys pulled me aside,

1:26:29

but man, you're not going up there,

1:26:31

are you? I said, damn right, I

1:26:33

am. And they said, this place is

1:26:36

about the pot. We're going to make

1:26:38

it big here. And you're going to

1:26:40

go up there with Vince McMahon. And

1:26:42

I said, guys, you want to pay

1:26:44

my rent, feel free, because I can't

1:26:47

pay my rent here in Texas. I'm

1:26:49

going up there for money. If that's

1:26:51

your, if that's your attitude. And they

1:26:53

were all like, I can't believe you're

1:26:55

a sell it. You're a sell it.

1:26:58

I do the same thing that every

1:27:00

single one of you guys would have

1:27:02

done if you were good enough to

1:27:04

get a deal. Wow. I think that's

1:27:07

interesting that I mean, do you think

1:27:09

that narrative still exists? Like I mean,

1:27:11

I got to assume it does. I

1:27:13

mean, but it's almost talked about. When

1:27:15

fans talk about it now, John, like,

1:27:18

oh, it's tribalism. But it sounds like

1:27:20

on some level, tribalism existed even back

1:27:22

then, just in the locker room. Yeah,

1:27:24

I think it did. There's no doubt

1:27:26

it did. And guys did not want

1:27:29

to, guys, man, they bashed New York

1:27:31

like crazy. Everybody had something bad to

1:27:33

say about it. I'd go to Japan,

1:27:35

they'd bash New York. I'd go to

1:27:37

Texas, they'd bash New York. It was

1:27:40

like the evil giant. No one wanted

1:27:42

to work for but every person that

1:27:44

I talked to would have answered the

1:27:46

phone from Vince McMahon and greatly take

1:27:48

and gladly would have taken a job.

1:27:51

Did you know that? back then or

1:27:53

are you so new in the business

1:27:55

that it's sort of brainwashing you or

1:27:57

do you know hey they're all talking

1:27:59

shit they'd all go take the chair?

1:28:02

I thought they would but I didn't

1:28:04

know and I didn't know I didn't

1:28:06

know Vince I didn't obviously I didn't

1:28:08

know anybody up there in W. I

1:28:10

didn't know where I'm in the business

1:28:13

but I always assumed that's where I

1:28:15

would end up I really did always

1:28:17

thought I thought I'd go to W.

1:28:19

W. You know, I really thought that

1:28:22

that was where I wanted to end

1:28:24

up. Now I never dreamed I'd be

1:28:26

there for 30 years. I thought I'd

1:28:28

be there for two or three years.

1:28:30

Hills didn't hang around that long. And

1:28:33

then I'd end up in Japan with

1:28:35

standing the guys and I'd finish over

1:28:37

there. That was my goal was to

1:28:39

be in WWE for two or three

1:28:41

years and then go to Japan, finish

1:28:44

my career over there. Everything changed with.

1:28:46

the money not wars and after the

1:28:48

Montreal screw job that all of a

1:28:50

sudden guaranteed contracts came into focus and

1:28:52

long contracts. That was not around before

1:28:55

and the option wasn't there. Guys, heels

1:28:57

didn't stay around that long. Hills came

1:28:59

in, Duncan, Stan, all these great heels

1:29:01

would come in and leave and go

1:29:03

somewhere else. Take their name and go

1:29:06

somewhere else. That's what I thought I

1:29:08

would end up doing. I want to

1:29:10

ask you about a guy like Al

1:29:12

Perez. I mean, I know you think

1:29:14

a lot of Al, I certainly do.

1:29:17

I mean, just an incredible performer. I've

1:29:19

even joked on the show before that,

1:29:21

you know, he's the long lost father

1:29:23

of Seth Rollins. But Al Perez, his

1:29:25

career, obviously he's most famous for allegedly

1:29:28

turning down the Black Scorpion opportunity with

1:29:30

Sting, but he does have a cup

1:29:32

of coffee with the WWF in 1989

1:29:34

and 1990. Only a couple of sporadic

1:29:37

TV appearances I think against Terry Taylor.

1:29:39

I don't you think Al Perez ever

1:29:41

had on a national level. It feels

1:29:43

like he would have checked a lot

1:29:45

of boxes for Vince. He had some

1:29:48

fallout with Pat and I don't know

1:29:50

what it was over. I think I

1:29:52

think it was a misunderstanding. I don't

1:29:54

know. I'm not gonna put words in

1:29:56

Al's mouth or anything else Al can

1:29:59

speak for himself and he certainly is.

1:30:01

smart guy can do that. He had

1:30:03

some fallout with the guys and I'm

1:30:05

not sure what it was and you

1:30:07

know he had some fallout with Vince

1:30:10

as well and it just you know

1:30:12

I was a guy that he drew

1:30:14

money in Texas I mean I was

1:30:16

a guy that you look at that

1:30:18

guy was incredible really good-looking great body

1:30:21

terrific worker you know I was a

1:30:23

guy that should have been around for

1:30:25

another 20 years and for whatever reason

1:30:27

he got a bad taste in his

1:30:29

mouth who went up to New York

1:30:32

and quit the business and you know,

1:30:34

when I, me and Jerry interviewed him

1:30:36

a couple years ago or a year

1:30:38

or two ago, I said, JBL and,

1:30:40

you know, he had no idea who

1:30:43

I was. Not that that's a big

1:30:45

deal, not that I'm a big star,

1:30:47

but Al hasn't watched wrestling for years.

1:30:49

You know, he just kind of got

1:30:52

a bad taste in his mouth, went

1:30:54

to work and did something, you know,

1:30:56

finished out of the business and. did

1:30:58

not look back. I don't know I

1:31:00

just find that interesting that he was

1:31:03

such a talented guy and everybody thought

1:31:05

man he's sure fire and it just

1:31:07

didn't work out but one of the

1:31:09

things that did work out is you

1:31:11

wrestling border towns that's something I didn't

1:31:14

think about but if you're working in

1:31:16

Texas you are going to work border

1:31:18

towns when you do that. Do you

1:31:20

see a lot of Lucia stars is

1:31:22

that how you get exposure to Lucia

1:31:25

fans? Tell us about working a border

1:31:27

town show, John. Yeah, we worked all

1:31:29

the border towns. There was a guy

1:31:31

who ran a territory that was just

1:31:33

a little bit south of San Antonio.

1:31:36

He ran all the border towns and

1:31:38

we ran all the border towns and

1:31:40

we ran one of the first $100

1:31:42

pay days by the way. So I'd

1:31:44

fly down there, you know, I'd fly

1:31:47

as obviously coach or southwest airlines. Then

1:31:49

I would, you know, $100 payday payday,

1:31:51

which is because of Kerry. And, you

1:31:53

know, such a big deal, we were

1:31:55

in, I believe, Laredo or Harlanj. I

1:31:58

can't remember what town we were in.

1:32:00

And that's where the Mexican group, CMLL,

1:32:02

came over and saw me and

1:32:04

wanted me to come down and

1:32:06

be the fake vampire against Vampiro

1:32:08

down there. Obviously, I didn't know the

1:32:11

whole backstory which we've gone into,

1:32:13

but that's where I got the job

1:32:15

to go down to Mexico. We didn't

1:32:17

have a ton of lucidores

1:32:19

on our show, but we did have,

1:32:22

you know, obviously a massive, massive Latino

1:32:24

crowd, and we drew the interest

1:32:26

because of Kerry. the northern wrestling

1:32:28

promotions in Mexico. I'll tell

1:32:31

you a funny story. We

1:32:33

were in, I think, it

1:32:35

was a little, Laredo, we

1:32:37

went on the Way of Laredo, and

1:32:39

we wanted to see the talkie show.

1:32:42

So, so, so, so, so, we all

1:32:44

go down the way for, because

1:32:46

I've heard about this my whole

1:32:48

life, you know, grow up in

1:32:50

Texas, I gotta see this. So

1:32:53

we go down there and we're

1:32:55

like, this really nasty, we're like

1:32:57

a, overpriced booze even for Mexico

1:32:59

and Briscoe told me one time he

1:33:01

went down there was a guy there was a

1:33:03

guy in a donkey suit so I did that