0:03

Hello, friends. My name is

0:05

Tammy Simon, and I'm the

0:07

founder of Sounds True, and

0:09

I want to welcome you

0:11

to the Sounds True podcast,

0:13

Insights at the Edge. In

0:16

the special episode of Insights

0:18

at the Edge, my guest

0:20

is Yangay Mingur Rimpache, a

0:22

beloved Tibetan teacher and master

0:24

of the Karmakagu and Nyingma

0:26

lineage of Tibetan Buddhism. Mingur

0:29

Rimpache has a special ability.

0:31

to communicate the depth of

0:33

his realization in a way

0:35

that's contemporary and broadly

0:38

accessible. He's written five

0:40

books and oversees the

0:42

Tiergar meditation community, an

0:44

international network of Buddhist

0:47

meditation centers. This conversation

0:49

originally aired on Sounds

0:51

True One. Sounds True's

0:53

membership platform that airs

0:56

monthly specials, dialogues, transformation

0:58

labs, and weekly live

1:00

community meditation sessions. You

1:02

can learn more at

1:05

join. Sounds true.com. This

1:07

conversation with Mingurempache was

1:09

part of a special month on

1:11

Sounds True One, where we focused

1:13

on pain as a doorway that

1:16

can lead us to greater compassion

1:18

for others. Here Rimpishai

1:20

explores his harrowing

1:22

near-death experience and

1:25

the life-giving discoveries

1:28

and spiritual realizations that

1:30

came with it, a

1:32

journey that he describes

1:34

in the beautiful book, In

1:36

Love with the World. And

1:38

now here's a deep and

1:40

illuminating conversation with

1:43

me, Gerimpishai. I'm

1:45

so excited for this. Hello,

1:47

thank you. Thank you very

1:49

much. And very happy to be

1:51

here. To begin, you share a

1:53

teaching in in love with the

1:56

world about your inspiration to

1:58

go on a wandering. you call

2:00

it adding wood to the fire.

2:02

Share with us a little bit

2:05

what this means, adding wood to

2:07

the fire and why you

2:09

wanted to go on this

2:12

wandering retreat. Yes, so

2:14

we have this tradition

2:16

wandering retreat, which is

2:18

a little bit like example of

2:20

how to make the fire.

2:22

So first when we make

2:24

the fire with the right

2:27

condition. protective

2:29

area with a small wood

2:31

or maybe even grass and

2:33

then fire become bigger and

2:35

you can open more wind

2:38

then you add more woods

2:40

even the huge wood actually

2:43

it helps for the fire

2:45

so adding wood to the fire

2:47

so that that means like

2:49

after a certain level

2:52

obstacles become opportunity

2:54

problems become and

2:57

poison become medicine.

2:59

So this is the

3:02

traditional style that making

3:04

friends with everything that

3:06

come to your life,

3:08

what we call life is up

3:11

and down, like wave of the

3:13

ocean. But the most

3:16

important is how we are

3:18

taking this up and down

3:20

as learning and

3:22

growing and to

3:24

transform ourselves. That is

3:26

the key important thing. If we

3:29

are taking up and down as

3:31

kind of like next wave,

3:33

then up down really hurt

3:35

us, impact us, and then

3:37

we feel maybe anxiety, depressed,

3:39

even only low or hate,

3:42

anger, so many things can

3:44

come. But if you're taking

3:46

this up and down, it's

3:48

wonderful. But the down sometime, we

3:50

learn more, we grow more,

3:53

we transform more. So that's

3:55

the. We're adding wood to the fire,

3:57

the traditional meaning. I want to ask

3:59

a... bit more about that because

4:01

I noticed that when people have

4:04

this kind of mindset that

4:06

they take obstacles as opportunities, I

4:08

respect that so much. And

4:10

yet it can be hard. I

4:12

notice a lot of times

4:14

when obstacles emerge, I don't see

4:16

them as opportunities. I see them as

4:18

things that are getting in my way. And,

4:21

you know,

4:23

I present them or I complain,

4:25

certainly complain about them. So,

4:27

what can you say to help

4:30

those of us who aspire

4:32

to that but aren't currently living it

4:34

at the level we would like? Yeah,

4:37

of course, it's very difficult. Easy

4:40

to set than done. We

4:43

have this normally, we have this

4:45

phrase. It's very difficult, but

4:47

it is possible. So in

4:49

my life, since when

4:51

I was 13,

4:53

I had the panic attacks

4:55

when I was eight, nine

4:57

years old. Then I learned meditation

4:59

when I was nine years

5:02

old. And then the panic

5:04

is very severe, but I

5:06

try to take friends with my

5:08

panic attacks. I learned

5:10

meditation from my father, but I'm

5:12

very lazy, lazy boy. It

5:14

took me five years to make

5:16

friends. But actually, when

5:19

I make friends with a panic, I

5:21

feel like I really

5:23

believe this obstacle become

5:25

opportunity, poison become medicine.

5:28

But in

5:30

order to do that, we

5:32

need to have out of

5:34

box thinking. If you're still

5:36

in the box, then

5:39

I think you cannot go

5:41

through. For example, one

5:44

of my father's important

5:46

advice said, if you

5:48

are going somewhere and

5:50

you reach the dead end,

5:52

there's a huge wall in front of

5:55

you. What should we do? If

5:57

you are thinking everything's a

6:00

past, support. Obstetrical is opportunity.

6:02

I can go through and

6:04

you bang your head to

6:06

the wall. I can go

6:09

through. You cannot go through.

6:11

And what what happened? It

6:13

will hurt your forehead and

6:16

what we call you will

6:18

have potato. No matter how

6:20

you're trying. You bang your

6:22

head to the wall. Impossible

6:25

maybe. So we need to

6:27

accept that one. Most people

6:29

don't know how to accept

6:32

that one. They think everything

6:34

is possible meaning can go

6:36

through the wall, banking, head

6:38

on the wall. But it

6:41

doesn't mean you cannot go

6:43

the other side of the

6:45

wall. There's so many different

6:48

ways. Maybe you can look

6:50

right and left, bring staircase,

6:52

you know. Just you, you

6:55

know, a few steps, and

6:57

then put the other side

6:59

you cross. Or maybe rope.

7:01

Or maybe rope. or maybe

7:04

a rock climbing style, or

7:06

maybe a detour, maybe a

7:08

go underway, so many different

7:11

ways, what we call liveous

7:13

impermanence, changing, like wave of

7:15

the ocean. We need to

7:18

accept that. Once we accept

7:20

that, then we will see

7:22

new door, new possibility, potential

7:24

opportunity. In the end, you

7:27

can cross the wall. Now,

7:29

Mingur, you said that as

7:31

a young person, you had

7:34

panic attacks and you discovered

7:36

over a five-year period how

7:38

to befriend them. What did

7:40

you discover about this befriending?

7:43

So I developed at the

7:45

beginning very strong resistance. I

7:47

have this fear and then

7:50

my heart like bumps like

7:52

drum, you know, and then

7:54

tight around my neck. I

7:57

cannot breathe. And then the

7:59

ground. is shaking almost like

8:01

you are in the an

8:03

aeroplan and the aeroplan passing

8:06

through the turbulence. So

8:08

then I try my best to fight

8:10

with my panic you know I I

8:12

run I hide the mountain when I

8:15

reach the top of the mountain panic

8:17

come there I go into the

8:19

forest play with my friends and

8:22

I check with the doctor also

8:24

I thought it's heart attack you

8:26

know And the doctor said, your

8:28

heart is very good. But I

8:31

don't believe doctor. And then when

8:33

I was nine, I discussed this

8:35

with my mom, my mom said,

8:37

you should learn meditation from my

8:40

father. So I learned, I'm very shy

8:42

to ask him, but my mom asked

8:44

on behalf of me and he

8:46

was very happy. And my first

8:48

question to my father is how

8:50

I can fight with my panic

8:53

attacks. And he said, don't fight.

8:55

And I was surprised.

8:57

What, you know? And he

8:59

said, don't fight, why? You

9:02

don't need to fight.

9:04

There is wonderful nature,

9:06

wonderful quality within

9:09

us, which is beyond

9:11

panic. It is the basis

9:14

of the panic attacks.

9:16

And he gave me

9:19

an example that our

9:21

fundamental quality is

9:24

like sky. I was born in

9:26

the Himalay mountain, we have beautiful

9:28

sky, but the sky is not

9:30

always beautiful, we have thunderstorm, snowstorm.

9:33

So these storms are like panic

9:35

attacks. And no matter how strong

9:37

they are, these storms cannot change nature of

9:39

sky. He asked me, will the storm

9:42

can change the nature of sky? And I was,

9:44

I thought a lot, I, in the end, I, in

9:46

the end, I said, I, in the end, I, I, in the

9:48

end, I said, in the end, I, in the end, I, I, I, I, I, I,

9:50

I, I, I, I, in the, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

9:52

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

9:54

I, I, I, So what

9:57

is this wonderful nature?

9:59

be called awareness, love

10:01

and compassion, and the wisdom.

10:04

And these three things are

10:06

together, inseparable quality of our

10:09

own mind, the fundamental college

10:11

of the mind. So the

10:14

meditation is not try to

10:16

get rid of the cloud

10:19

or storm, but just try

10:21

to connect with the inner

10:23

sky. Sometimes sky and space

10:26

cannot, not intangible, not easy

10:28

to see it. But when

10:31

we see the cloud, oh,

10:33

there is sky, there is

10:36

space. We can see the

10:38

space or sky through the

10:41

cloud. So making everything as

10:43

friend, by making friend, we

10:46

can connect through the inner

10:48

sky. Now, you decide at

10:51

36 to intensify hardship for

10:53

yourself, to make trouble for

10:56

yourself, to add wood to

10:58

the fire by going on

11:00

this wandering retreat. And one

11:03

of the things that impressed

11:05

me with in love with

11:08

the world reading this account

11:10

is you were willing to

11:13

be very forthcoming at the

11:15

beginning about your complaints about...

11:18

how difficult it was. Here,

11:20

you know, a privileged Tokyo,

11:23

you'd always had an attendant

11:25

by your side, people taking

11:28

care of you, traveling in

11:30

first class, etc. And now

11:33

suddenly you're in a completely

11:35

different situation that is very,

11:37

very challenging, sleeping on a

11:40

train station floor, the smells,

11:42

the sounds. But what impressed

11:45

me, Mingir, was that you

11:47

were willing to share. that

11:50

this was really hard for

11:52

you and that you were

11:55

really upset by it and

11:57

that it forced you to...

12:00

work with your upset.

12:02

So I wanted to

12:05

ask you about this

12:07

willingness to talk about

12:09

your own challenges.

12:12

Yes. So this

12:14

one-drewing research style,

12:17

I really inspire

12:19

from the childhood

12:21

because every time

12:24

my mom read this

12:26

great yogis in the

12:28

Tibet. and then draw

12:30

a song more, there's some

12:33

female yogi also,

12:35

this live story is

12:37

really really touching. And

12:39

I really want to do

12:42

like that, but of course

12:44

I don't have that

12:46

capacity. But then I

12:48

finished three-year retreat,

12:51

all the teachings and

12:53

when I was 36 I thought maybe

12:55

I'm ready now. But

12:57

as you mentioned, I

13:00

call myself, it's like,

13:02

Barama Prince. I

13:04

have this name, Turku,

13:06

like, very high level

13:09

of, kind of, like,

13:11

title, teacher, wherever

13:13

I go, people's religious,

13:16

like, namaste it.

13:18

And then, everywhere,

13:20

and then many

13:22

attendants and

13:24

nice bad. I got all

13:27

this. I got all this. So

13:29

I never beg food in

13:31

my life before there even

13:33

one time. I know it's very

13:35

difficult, but I thought, I

13:38

will do this. This is

13:40

my really wanting to do.

13:42

So then one day I

13:44

leapt my monastery in India,

13:46

put Gaia in the middle

13:48

of the night and I

13:51

don't have much money. A

13:53

few thousand Indian rupees. And

13:56

then they just leapt. No

13:58

friend. Not ending. No place

14:00

to leave. Just took the

14:02

train and then I arrived

14:05

my destination is the overnight

14:07

train, the waranasi, from Butkaya,

14:09

the place called waranasi. And

14:11

now it took off. I

14:14

slept on the train station

14:16

for a few days. Then

14:18

one thing in the train,

14:20

I have a lot of

14:22

emotion comes. Because I thought

14:25

I finished this theory to

14:27

it. I made friends with

14:29

my panic attacks. I thought

14:31

I'm better than this. But

14:34

we're funny that these disturbance

14:36

are not because of nowhere

14:38

to go or no home.

14:40

But it's just embarrassed. I'm

14:43

on the ground. And there's

14:45

a lot of it. local

14:47

Indians there and I feel

14:49

like everybody's looking at me

14:51

and there's a police there

14:54

or they are also looking

14:56

at me and then I

14:58

have a lot of kind

15:00

of like emotion comes so

15:03

that's the quite challenge but

15:05

I didn't give up and

15:07

then I continued to go

15:09

to then another place then

15:11

after that I finished all

15:14

my money I have to

15:16

bag the food. First time

15:18

in my life. So I

15:20

thought, there's one kind of

15:23

like street restaurant, tiny restaurant.

15:25

When I have some money,

15:27

I buy food from there.

15:29

It's not expensive. When I

15:32

finish all my money, I

15:34

thought, I'm going to bag

15:36

from them because I know

15:38

them, you know, it's not

15:40

stranger. And they give me

15:43

lap of a foot in

15:45

the evening. And that leftover

15:47

food become like food poison.

15:49

I have died. I almost

15:52

died. Yeah, and we're going

15:54

to talk about that.

15:56

experience of almost

15:58

dying because

16:00

it really forms

16:03

the core of the story

16:05

in love with the

16:07

world and your discoveries from

16:09

really a type of

16:11

interesting near -death experience

16:13

that you went through. But before

16:15

we get there, I want to

16:18

ask you just one more question

16:20

about this forthcomingness about you said

16:22

your embarrassment because you write, in

16:24

the old days when I was

16:26

a young monk, I berated myself

16:28

quite regularly for any discrepancies

16:30

between some ideal

16:33

version of practice

16:35

and what I was actually able

16:37

to do. But then you didn't

16:39

berate yourself. You had a

16:41

way of accepting your difficulties and

16:43

your embarrassment. And I want to

16:45

ask you about that because

16:47

I think a lot of us

16:49

have a disappointment. Like I read

16:51

these great inspiring books and

16:53

then this is how I actually

16:55

am in my life. And then

16:58

on top of it, I

17:00

feel disappointed in myself. I'm upset with

17:02

myself. I berate myself. But it sounds like

17:04

you had a way of working through

17:06

that. Were you accepted right where you were?

17:08

So that's what I want to hear more

17:10

about. Yes. So

17:12

what we

17:14

call normally anything

17:16

what we do

17:19

special when we think

17:21

is important or matters to

17:23

me and there's always have

17:25

this blame some kind of

17:27

like self judgment or self

17:29

blame or kind

17:32

of like a critical

17:34

about ourself. So that

17:36

is what we call the

17:38

one of the causes of

17:40

like whenever was young panic

17:42

attacks. That's the one of the causes

17:45

that that I

17:47

really want to get

17:50

rid of my panic attacks. I feel like

17:52

this is a kind of like

17:54

obstacle for my life getting

17:56

my life away and.

18:00

taking all my happiness

18:02

from me and I feel

18:04

like this is a part

18:06

of me and then then

18:09

that is really become like

18:11

loop but then what I

18:13

discover is it's okay it's

18:16

another strong we all have

18:18

good days and bad days

18:20

the sky always blue without

18:22

cloud always sun shining may

18:25

not a good Maybe one

18:27

or two days good, but

18:29

sometime cloud is good, sometime

18:32

rain is good, sometimes there

18:34

is some stone, it's okay,

18:36

it's this nature. But whatever

18:39

this happens, it will not

18:41

impact the fundamental quality of

18:43

us. There is wonderful quality

18:45

within ourselves. Even that sub-critical

18:48

thinking, even that guilt and

18:50

judgment. is coming from awareness.

18:52

It is a manifestation of

18:55

love and compassion. So, rules

18:57

like that is a poison,

18:59

but actually, what we call

19:02

like, when we look at

19:04

the wave, if we don't

19:06

know that it's a wave,

19:09

we think like it's lens

19:11

light, but actually it's just

19:13

water. The nature of the

19:15

wave is water. So when

19:18

we see it. And of

19:20

course we have this lot

19:22

of technique, teachings, seeing even

19:25

that negative or disturbing or

19:27

strong emotion, the essence of

19:29

that is awareness, love and

19:32

compassion, and the wisdom. Once

19:34

you discover that, you don't

19:36

need to fight with them,

19:38

you don't need to get

19:41

rid of them. They automatically

19:43

transform. And it's okay. Everybody

19:45

has a mistake? Nobody. It's

19:48

always perfect. In the Tibet,

19:50

we have one saying that

19:52

no mistake, no success. So

19:55

that's a part of that.

19:57

But important is learn from

19:59

the mistake, grow from the

20:01

mystery. Back to your wandering

20:04

story. Here you are begging

20:06

for the first time getting

20:08

leftovers and you develop... food

20:11

poisoning. And at a certain

20:13

point, at first you think

20:15

you just have a stomach

20:18

bug or something, it's going

20:20

to pass. But at a

20:22

certain point you realize, oh,

20:24

this could actually be really

20:27

serious. I might even... be

20:29

dying this stomach illness is

20:31

so severe and you have

20:34

a decision point which is

20:36

do I reach out for

20:38

help because of course if

20:41

you did you would be

20:43

able to get word to

20:45

someone and you know the

20:48

helicopter would come in or

20:50

some version of that and

20:52

you would you would be

20:54

rescued do I reach out

20:57

for help or not and

20:59

I'd love to know more

21:01

if you put that decision

21:04

under a magnifying glass for

21:06

you and then how you

21:08

major way to clarity around

21:11

that. Yeah, so after I

21:13

eating the food, so I

21:15

eat food in the evening,

21:17

then after one hour later,

21:20

there's a lot of noise,

21:22

then in that night, in

21:24

the midnight, I need to

21:27

run into the... there's no

21:29

really wood, there's a lot

21:31

of plants and there's no

21:34

ready to toilet there, it's

21:36

just outside. And then when

21:38

I go there to... to

21:40

my business, or the dogs

21:43

chasing up to me. There's

21:45

a lot of street dogs.

21:47

In the daytime we are

21:50

friends, by night time we

21:52

have become enemies. But then,

21:54

next day, I thought, oh,

21:57

you will go away. I

21:59

meditate a little bit about

22:01

imp. permanence. It's coming and

22:04

going, or of course it's

22:06

impermanent, but it's continuing to

22:08

continue, and then after a

22:11

few days later, because I don't

22:13

have food to eat. I only

22:15

drink the water. There's a

22:17

palm well, which is I have

22:20

to palm like this, and then

22:22

water comes when I try to

22:24

reach water. then what is

22:26

already stopped? So I have

22:29

to run very fast. I

22:31

drink that water again

22:33

and again. In the days,

22:36

five, six, later, then it's

22:38

warmeting, diarrhea, getting

22:41

worse, not getting

22:43

better. And my body losing

22:45

the strength. It's like,

22:48

now I cannot really

22:50

sit straight also. It's

22:52

like collapsing. Then

22:54

I thought, okay, maybe I'm going

22:56

to die here. What should I do?

22:58

Should I go back or continue

23:01

to stay like that? And if

23:03

I go back, maybe I can try

23:05

to find fun of my

23:07

monastery. I remember the

23:09

phone number. Maybe try to call.

23:11

What should I do? I have

23:13

a little bit of feeling of

23:16

panic for a few hours,

23:18

maybe one or two hours. Panic,

23:20

I'm back. But then after that.

23:22

I decided, you know, this

23:25

is a very, very bold

23:27

and strong movement,

23:29

strong. I mean, I'm telling

23:32

other people, don't try like

23:34

that, you know. Don't try

23:36

at your home. So I

23:39

decided to stay, actually.

23:41

So there's a practice,

23:43

what we call if I live,

23:46

it's good. Please bless me

23:48

to be courage to be

23:50

courage to live long. If

23:52

I die, good. Please

23:54

bless me to have

23:56

courage to die. So

23:58

I pray. this few

24:01

times and then just

24:03

let it be that

24:05

fear is gone I'm

24:07

in the anxiety the

24:09

panics is gone and

24:11

now I'm prepared almost

24:13

like dying and we

24:15

have this death and

24:17

dying meditation and I

24:19

practice this death and

24:22

dying meditation in the

24:24

midnight already and then

24:26

slowly slowly my sense

24:28

are dissolving I cannot

24:30

see I cannot hear

24:32

and the body become

24:34

paralyzed. Then I have

24:36

this inner what we

24:38

could dissolution experience everything

24:40

just so so but

24:43

then I maintain in

24:45

the awareness the meditation

24:47

we have this awareness

24:49

meditation but eventually awareness

24:51

become more clear more

24:53

clear more clear and

24:55

then I don't have

24:57

even body sensation I

24:59

think all the other

25:01

senses collapse, but the

25:03

awareness is really present

25:06

and not from, no

25:08

back, no time, and

25:10

it's really opening, like,

25:12

it's kind of become

25:14

fast. And, and also,

25:16

the direction, no far,

25:18

no close. So wonderful.

25:20

experience. So I stay

25:22

in that few, maybe

25:24

six, seven, maybe around

25:27

eight hours like that.

25:29

Then in the end,

25:31

I feel like, oh,

25:33

maybe it's not the

25:35

time to die. There's

25:37

something, kind of like,

25:39

something is not the

25:41

time for me. There's

25:43

some kind of like

25:45

compassion, but no word,

25:48

you know, the normal

25:50

words are gone. Normally

25:52

we have this image

25:54

where it's gone. So

25:56

it's a kind of

25:58

non-conceptual level of feeling.

26:00

compassion and that becomes

26:02

stronger, stronger, then

26:05

I feel my body and

26:07

first I hear something like

26:09

there's so many noise

26:11

normally we don't hear

26:13

nature kind of like sound

26:16

slowly slowly can hear

26:18

and then it's in the

26:20

morning so I can slowly,

26:22

slow up and try to

26:24

move my fingers and I

26:27

look around. Now the

26:29

environment where

26:31

I stayed before is I

26:34

feel like unsafe, a lot

26:36

of dogs behind me, there's

26:39

a broken wall, and why

26:41

I'm here. Now that feeling

26:43

of unsafe is

26:46

completely gone. That street,

26:48

the dirty street, become

26:50

like my home. And the

26:53

tree in front of me

26:55

is so beautiful, what

26:57

I call. The tree of

27:00

love. And when

27:02

the wind touched on

27:04

my face, it's

27:06

all blissful.

27:08

And so much

27:12

appreciation, gratitude,

27:15

the street becomes

27:17

like my home.

27:20

And then what

27:22

happens? So then

27:24

I thought, then I

27:26

thought, okay. I want to

27:29

drink that palm water again,

27:31

so I get up. I can

27:33

get up now, kind of

27:35

like, body become quite light,

27:37

not much strength, but light.

27:40

And I try to walk

27:42

a few steps to the

27:44

palm well and suddenly

27:46

become unconscious, I

27:48

think. And then when I

27:51

wake up, somebody took me

27:53

in the hospital. I met

27:55

one Asian guy and... few

27:57

days before and I think he

28:00

took me into the hospital

28:02

and there's an ivy

28:04

when I wake up,

28:06

there's an ivy and

28:08

I'm on the like

28:11

a plastic iron plastic

28:13

bed which is a

28:15

little bit moving and

28:17

I look around and

28:19

this Asian guy said

28:21

you almost die and

28:23

I took and then

28:25

something to drink spares

28:27

like salt and soul

28:30

and sweet together. And a

28:33

few hours later, I feel

28:35

quite good. And I want

28:37

to go out of hospital.

28:39

I said, you should stay

28:41

one day. I said, I'm

28:44

good. And finally, I said,

28:46

you can go and come

28:48

back. But I went outside

28:50

of hospital. I didn't come

28:52

back. Now, Mingur, let's go

28:55

back to the dying experience

28:57

that you... were having where

28:59

you talked about the dissolution

29:01

that was occurring and how

29:03

you used your Tibetan training,

29:06

the practices you had learned

29:08

during that period. One of

29:10

the things that in in

29:12

love with the world you

29:14

share is that you engaged

29:17

in the practice of offerings

29:19

at this time. And I

29:21

thought that's such a beautiful

29:23

practice and something that we

29:25

could do really throughout any

29:27

time in our life. And

29:30

I wonder if you can

29:32

share that particular practice you

29:34

did. Yes. So we have

29:36

this death and dying meditation.

29:38

So what we call partu

29:41

practice, partu meaning in between.

29:43

So normally in our life,

29:45

we all have this bubble.

29:47

We have our own cocoon.

29:49

And to go out of

29:52

that bubble is very difficult.

29:54

In between moments is the

29:56

up and down moment of

29:58

the life. So. When

30:00

you are 18 years

30:02

old, moving away from

30:04

home, big part of it.

30:07

When you're looking for

30:09

a new job, also

30:11

gap. When you lost your

30:13

job, fair good. I'm not

30:16

saying losing job is good,

30:18

but the gap, the part

30:20

of. When you start a

30:23

new relationship, there's

30:25

a gap. When you break up,

30:28

also a gap. And

30:30

special when we go to

30:32

sleep, we have the

30:35

dissolution experience.

30:37

So what we call slipping

30:39

and the dying very

30:41

similar. But the slip

30:44

is very short and

30:46

unclear when we're really

30:48

dying. So clear in

30:50

a long time. Otherwise,

30:52

no difference. So we

30:54

drew this bar the

30:57

practice. So bar the

30:59

practice. to understand this

31:01

dissolution state to recognize

31:03

and then rest in

31:05

the awareness, maintain special

31:07

what we call open awareness

31:10

or objectless awareness,

31:13

awareness without focus

31:15

any object like candelam,

31:18

eliminate itself. Our

31:20

mind is illuminating itself,

31:22

always. But we are

31:25

not recognizing itself. So

31:27

recognize that and rest

31:29

in that. So what

31:31

are the dissolution? So four

31:34

elements like first we feel

31:36

like falling or kind of like

31:38

dissamental like

31:40

birth element. Then we

31:43

feel like melting water

31:45

element, floating or melting.

31:47

Then we feel like burning and

31:49

shock. And then we feel

31:52

like burning and shock. And

31:54

then in the end like Blow

31:56

away. So the show

31:58

is fire. blown away

32:01

is the wind. For

32:03

example, if you have a

32:05

break up, first

32:07

you feel shock and falling,

32:10

collapsing. Then you

32:12

feel like floating, then

32:15

a lot of nervous, and

32:19

then in the end dark, so

32:22

these are the dissolution normally. And

32:26

then actually what happens

32:28

is, as we

32:30

are experiencing this dissolution, the

32:33

fundamental quality of our mind,

32:35

the awareness is actually

32:37

become more clear, more

32:39

present, more open. And

32:43

now there's a lot

32:45

of opportunity that you can transform.

32:48

Sometimes what I

32:50

call plasticity moment.

32:54

But we need to recognize

32:56

that. We need to first

32:58

recognize that is the

33:01

moment that we can transform and

33:03

bring awareness. So

33:05

we do that when

33:07

we go to sleep also. When we go

33:09

to sleep, first we feel like falling,

33:11

then we feel floating, then we feel shock

33:13

a little bit. And

33:16

then most people don't feel that

33:18

in the end, but blown away

33:20

and dark. And then after

33:22

that, we feel

33:24

very present and

33:26

so awake. But

33:31

without concept, one

33:33

or two seconds, we

33:36

experience that that is

33:38

the ground luminosity of what

33:40

we call the fundamental quality of the mind. If

33:43

you can rest with that, then entire

33:45

sleep become meditation. For

33:48

example, if you are taking nap,

33:52

maybe you are in the

33:54

meeting, boring meeting, and

33:56

oh yeah, this is a good idea.

34:00

and then you almost

34:02

fall asleep, you know.

34:04

Not really, completely fall

34:06

asleep, almost fall asleep

34:08

and then I wake

34:10

up. So when you

34:13

wake up, in that

34:15

moment, mine is so

34:17

present, clear, fresh. So

34:19

most people experience that.

34:22

Why in that moment,

34:24

we go into the

34:26

ground luminosity. baby version

34:28

of ground luminosity. But

34:30

when we die, that

34:33

luminosity becomes so vivid,

34:35

present, clear. So I

34:37

experience that. So the,

34:39

as you said, offering

34:41

is normally, there are

34:44

four steps of practice

34:46

before dying. And we

34:48

do that. Imagine a

34:50

imagination level now also,

34:52

we can do that

34:55

during sleeping also. And

34:57

of course, the big,

34:59

what because the big

35:01

day, the last day

35:03

of our life, big

35:06

day, we can do

35:08

that. Therefore, first is

35:10

offering. Second is the

35:12

dedication. The third is

35:15

the intention, motivation. Last

35:17

is whatever prey or

35:19

practice you do. The

35:21

first is offering meaning.

35:23

When we're going to

35:26

die, we need to

35:28

let go, ready to

35:30

die. So if you

35:32

want to make wheel,

35:34

make wheel also. Normally

35:37

it's quite important. Not

35:39

necessary to wait until

35:41

die, but you can

35:43

make wheels before, ahead.

35:45

And then if you

35:48

have anything to attach

35:50

to the object, maybe

35:52

friends. family, shoe, traditional

35:54

what we call the

35:56

meditators attached to Mala.

35:59

A Pray book. Oh

36:01

house. So I was

36:03

thinking during

36:05

that time I

36:07

have attachment to

36:10

my mom, my mom,

36:12

my teacher, my student

36:15

also, my

36:17

monastery, all this

36:19

offer. So whatever

36:21

object of

36:24

attachment, maybe money,

36:26

possession, anything.

36:29

Let it go. So just to

36:31

clarify, this is a visualization

36:34

that you're doing, but you're

36:36

suggesting that also in the

36:38

course of our everyday life, we

36:40

might actually offer physical objects

36:42

or money or things like

36:45

that, or no, this is

36:47

just a visualization practice that

36:49

we can do. This is more

36:51

like visualization. Okay. In everyday life,

36:54

we need to assume that today is

36:56

the final day, the big day. And

36:59

we imagine that, like, if

37:01

the big day comes, I will

37:03

do similar like this. And today

37:05

is a big day. And this offer.

37:08

Imagination never. Making wheels

37:10

are real, but then other.

37:12

So what does that mean to,

37:15

like, offer your mother in your

37:17

imagination? What does that mean

37:20

when you say that? So I offer

37:22

my mom to, what we call,

37:24

Buddha, Darama, Sanga, and

37:26

awareness. Our true nature. Okay.

37:29

So that means I feel

37:31

like that my mom now

37:33

under the care and love

37:35

of Buddha Darma Sanga

37:38

and the fundamental

37:40

quality awareness. So

37:43

now I'm not worried.

37:45

Something like that. Right.

37:47

So it's this gift

37:49

giving internally. You're

37:52

doing this like

37:54

gifting and honoring and

37:57

presenting. And you

37:59

you you wrote about how

38:01

you could take like

38:03

a favorite experience, like

38:05

a part of nature or something,

38:08

and offer that as well.

38:10

Yes, if you go outside,

38:13

it's a beautiful mountain,

38:15

you can appreciate and

38:17

offer that too. Sky, sun shining,

38:20

like appreciation and

38:22

offering, that like that. And

38:25

the second practice

38:27

is now what we

38:29

call them. dedication. So

38:31

meaning you look back

38:33

backward to your life,

38:35

like whatever you did,

38:37

like virtue, like maybe

38:40

helping other people,

38:42

meaningful thing in your

38:44

life, maybe you meditate,

38:47

maybe social work, all

38:49

this virtue, you appreciate

38:51

about that and

38:53

also happiness and

38:56

appreciate about your

38:58

life. And even, not

39:00

just up, even down

39:02

also, that is experience,

39:04

up and down is the

39:07

life. Appreciate that. And

39:09

all this virtue, all this

39:11

happiness, again dedicate

39:14

for all peace, for friends

39:17

and family, like, it's

39:19

like kind of like

39:21

offering. So number two,

39:23

thanks to the life,

39:25

appreciate and dedicate

39:27

again. Number three, now

39:30

intention. So today I'm

39:32

going to die. I'm going

39:34

to use this

39:36

opportunity to practice

39:38

the Bardo meditation, to

39:41

explore my inner sky,

39:44

the wonderful quality

39:46

within myself. I'm

39:48

going to experience

39:51

that and learn and

39:53

grow until the last

39:55

breath or even beyond.

39:58

So that motivation

40:03

to seek your true

40:05

nature, inspire.

40:07

Not like I'm

40:10

doomed, and this

40:12

is the worst thing,

40:14

not like that,

40:16

actually. Even

40:19

death, death and

40:21

dying is the great

40:24

opportunity to

40:26

explore, like adventure.

40:28

or you just

40:30

pray all my friends

40:32

and family, world, be peace,

40:35

everybody, be well, and some

40:37

kind of like goodbye. And

40:39

then you're just dressed in

40:41

awareness, awareness, and then

40:44

dissolution come. Then in the end,

40:46

we will experience this,

40:48

the ground luminosity, sometimes

40:51

what we call the

40:53

mother luminosity. Everybody will

40:55

experience, it doesn't matter

40:57

whether you are. Religious

41:00

person or Buddhist,

41:02

non-buddists, religious,

41:05

religious, religious,

41:07

doesn't matter. It's

41:10

everybody's nature. And

41:12

then you will rest

41:14

with that. And then

41:16

your death becomes,

41:18

for us, what we go?

41:20

The death become emerged

41:23

with enlightenment. What

41:25

was your prayer?

41:28

my teachers and the

41:30

teaching. And I pray to the

41:32

nature of myself and all

41:34

beings. Then I pray this.

41:36

May all beings have

41:38

happiness and the causes

41:41

of happiness? May all

41:43

beings free from suffering

41:45

and the causes of

41:47

suffering? So I did these

41:50

prayers. Now you mentioned

41:52

that the dissolution process.

41:55

culminates in this

41:57

meeting with ground luminosity.

41:59

And part of the

42:02

power of In Love with

42:04

the World for me

42:06

reading the book was

42:08

your direct introduction

42:12

to us of what you

42:14

call child luminosity

42:17

meeting mother

42:19

luminosity. And you know

42:21

quite honestly that's something I've heard

42:24

about before but there was a

42:26

way when you described it I

42:28

had an appreciation of it that

42:30

I'd never had. And so I wonder

42:33

if you can share that with

42:35

our listeners this child luminosity

42:37

meeting the mother luminosity.

42:39

So this is the

42:41

traditional example. The child

42:44

luminosity meaning right now

42:46

when we practice. So

42:48

maybe we understand awareness.

42:50

intellectually, and then if you

42:52

practice a little bit, then

42:54

we get some glimpse of

42:56

experience. Then the third stage,

42:59

what we call direct realization.

43:01

So intellectual understanding,

43:04

then some experience,

43:06

then direct realization

43:08

of the awareness. All this

43:10

process, what we call child

43:13

luminosity, because it's not really

43:15

grown yet, and not up

43:18

and down. And even you

43:20

meditate some days very well,

43:23

some days feel like worse.

43:25

So this is the what

43:28

we call child luminosity. Child

43:30

is very very, you know,

43:33

sometime laughing and then sometimes

43:35

crying and sometimes making a

43:38

lot of noise and sometimes.

43:41

So it's like up and down.

43:43

But then when we die,

43:46

everything dissolves. So

43:48

actually, like I experienced

43:50

that, of course, my

43:52

sensory perception, everything

43:55

deserves, not only that,

43:57

the thought also dissolves.

44:00

thought, normally thought is like when

44:02

we think about apple, and

44:04

there's an image of apple, then

44:06

there's a word apple, then

44:08

there's some sensation apple, like

44:11

feeling about the apple, and

44:13

these three comes together. That

44:16

is what we call conceptual mind.

44:18

These three deserves. But

44:23

you know what

44:25

is going on in

44:27

that moment without having

44:30

this conceptual mind. And

44:32

that is what

44:34

we call ground luminosity.

44:36

It's so fast. Now

44:39

our mind, when we think

44:41

about apple, we cannot think

44:43

about orange. When we think

44:46

about orange, we cannot think

44:48

about apple. It's very fast.

44:50

We think, oh, we

44:52

can think about, because actually it's just

44:54

back and forth. But

44:57

in that moment, in the

44:59

ground luminosity, it's like, I

45:01

give example like

45:03

leg in the mountain reflects

45:07

entire valley at

45:10

the same time. The

45:12

trees, rocks, deers,

45:15

sky, cloud, house,

45:17

everything can manifest. So

45:21

this aspect

45:23

of the mind is so

45:25

fast or found. And we

45:27

have that right now, right here,

45:30

we all have that. But

45:32

the problem is, we don't see

45:34

it. Why we don't

45:36

see too close, too

45:39

easy. And

45:42

then conceptual mind. So

45:45

because we hold on conceptual

45:47

mind and this ground luminosity

45:49

is too close, too easy, we

45:51

don't see it. But when

45:53

we die, we will see. So

45:55

the child, meaning child has

45:58

some familiarity about

46:00

ground luminosity, although

46:02

it's not so clear. But

46:05

when we die, oh, like child

46:07

recognizing the mom,

46:09

the reunion, reunion,

46:12

they become one. So you

46:14

had this big day, you could

46:16

say a dress rehearsal

46:19

of the big day, you

46:21

had a big day while

46:23

still being alive and being

46:25

here, how, how did that

46:27

change you? That actually

46:30

really really changed

46:32

actually like There's no

46:35

feeling of unsafe That's

46:38

gone. That's why my

46:40

book title is in

46:42

love with the world Why

46:44

because what I felt

46:46

like if you love the world?

46:49

world loves your back

46:51

After that after that

46:53

instant, you know I come

46:56

out from hospital

46:59

I feel like whole world is my

47:01

home. And then actually I become

47:03

more smart. I know how

47:05

to manage my time, where to

47:08

find food, where to go, and

47:10

even ups and downs or

47:12

whatever comes, it really becomes

47:14

like my friend. So rests

47:17

almost more than four years.

47:19

It's wonderful. And my

47:21

practice is really, really

47:24

improved my meditation practice.

47:26

And normally. I hear

47:29

about the death and

47:31

dying. I hear about

47:33

the awareness cannot

47:35

be died. Why is unborn

47:38

and never being

47:40

born how you die? I

47:42

really experience that.

47:45

It's not just believe.

47:47

So the whole

47:49

perspective about myself

47:52

and the other world

47:54

changed after that.

47:57

Don't tell me more of this word on

47:59

board. awareness being

48:01

unborn. What does

48:04

that mean? So this

48:06

mother luminosity

48:09

is beyond concept

48:11

of course, beyond

48:14

five senses, but

48:16

it has luminous

48:18

quality. And that

48:21

is beyond subject

48:23

and object, beyond

48:26

concept, beyond

48:28

time. created by cause

48:31

and condition. It is emptiness.

48:33

Sometimes what we call it

48:35

is emptiness. But it's not

48:38

nothing. It is emptiness,

48:40

but it's not nothing. It is

48:42

like basis for everything,

48:44

entire universe for us.

48:46

You know, one time I have a

48:48

lot of discussion with one of

48:51

the physics and they talk

48:53

about this dark matter and

48:55

dark energy. I thought, oh,

48:57

quite similar. fundamental

48:59

basis of our being, the

49:01

core being, yet beyond subject

49:04

and object, but it has

49:07

luminous quality. So

49:09

this is why what we call

49:11

is unborn, is emptiness.

49:13

And just to have you say

49:16

a little bit more about

49:18

this word luminosity

49:20

or luminous, I think, you

49:22

know, hearing it sounds like

49:25

there's a quality of light.

49:27

but yet it's unborn light.

49:30

So I'm curious if you

49:32

could say more

49:34

descriptively. So it's

49:36

not the physical light.

49:39

It is experienced

49:41

light. For example,

49:43

you can see me, I can see

49:46

you through the screen, you

49:48

can hear my voice, all

49:50

is what we call

49:52

manifestation of the luminous

49:55

mind. can see, can hear,

49:57

can smell, can think, can

49:59

feel. All this appearance,

50:02

all this experience,

50:04

all this perception,

50:06

all this knowing is

50:08

based on that luminous

50:11

mind. But that

50:13

luminous mind itself

50:16

is beyond of everything,

50:18

first emptiness.

50:20

Yeah. Okay, so you mentioned

50:23

that... this Bardo state and

50:25

these Bardo teachings can have all

50:27

these different kinds of applications.

50:29

Somebody's going through a

50:32

divorce. Somebody's lost their

50:34

job. And I think a

50:36

lot of people can relate

50:38

to that. And they can

50:40

even relate to this sense

50:42

of, I feel like, the

50:44

earth. has just sunk and

50:47

fallen, you know, I'm in

50:49

a crevasse, everything's falling, the

50:51

sense of things kind of

50:53

dissolving and liquefying and the

50:55

shock of the experience, and

50:57

even the sense of like,

50:59

everything seems to be moving

51:02

and uncertain, but often

51:04

we don't get... to this

51:06

luminous space. Instead, we're

51:08

in this shock movement,

51:11

fear concern, and you've

51:13

pointed out, oh, you know, there's

51:15

the sky, the inner sky, we

51:18

can get to the inner sky.

51:20

But I think it's hard for

51:23

people, and I'm wondering if you

51:25

can give me some more

51:27

concrete pointers for someone

51:30

who's in that situation. Ocean

51:32

on the surface, we only see

51:34

up and down, up and down,

51:36

up and down. But if you

51:38

go a little bit deep into

51:41

that, there's a calm water.

51:43

Clear, calm water. When you go

51:45

to the lake, one time I went

51:47

to the lake and a lot of

51:49

movement and I swim inside

51:51

pristine water. Look, everything

51:54

is calm. So actually it's like

51:56

that. On the surface level, we

51:58

have so much. and down, but

52:01

the fundamental is this

52:03

luminous mine. But of

52:05

course, sometime just intellectually

52:08

level is very difficult

52:11

to accept that and understand that.

52:13

This is why we need to

52:16

learn what we call being mine.

52:18

So we have two things. In

52:21

quarry mine, like analytical

52:23

mine, and the being

52:25

mine, it's just. need to just

52:27

be with the reality as I

52:29

just saw. We need to learn

52:31

step by step. Normally, I

52:33

teach some kind of like

52:36

experiential step-by-step practice

52:38

like in my meditation

52:41

community called Durgar and we

52:43

have this joy of living

52:46

meditation workshops level one,

52:48

two, three. So first level

52:50

one, level one, level one,

52:53

level one, level one, level

52:55

one, level one, recognize awareness.

52:58

So what is awareness?

53:00

awareness means you're mine

53:03

actually that you know

53:05

what you're thinking, feeling, doing.

53:07

You can see my face,

53:09

you can hear my voice.

53:12

You're looking at this screen

53:14

and while you're looking at

53:16

this screen, maybe you have

53:19

this window here, chair there.

53:21

So that knowing quality that

53:24

can expense, can know. can

53:26

understand, can

53:28

feel. That is the awareness.

53:31

And then next phase

53:33

is we need to connect

53:36

with that awareness

53:38

through object, an

53:40

object. So object can

53:43

be anything, what we

53:45

call. We can meditate

53:47

everywhere, anytime, with

53:50

anything. So maybe

53:52

at the beginning. Could

53:54

be something that you can

53:57

see, could be taste, could

53:59

be tactile. Then eventually,

54:02

the body, the sensation

54:04

in the body. Then thought.

54:06

Thought means, positive thought,

54:09

negative thought, neutral

54:11

thought. And then, emotion.

54:14

When you reach the

54:16

emotion, even the panic

54:18

attacks can be object

54:21

of awareness. So,

54:23

the funny thing is, when

54:25

you see, even the panic

54:27

attacks, Actually, you're

54:29

out of pananatics.

54:32

For example, when

54:34

you see the river, you're

54:36

out of river. When you

54:38

see the mountain, you're

54:40

out of mountain. And

54:42

that coming out comes

54:44

byproduct. You don't need

54:46

to make space. You

54:49

don't need to come out.

54:51

But just being with

54:53

that, pushback, you free.

54:55

But yet, the panic. become

54:58

still supporter or

55:00

reminder of the awareness.

55:02

Awareness becomes bigger than

55:04

panic attacks and actually

55:07

watching or holding the

55:09

panic attacks. So these step-by-step

55:12

traditional techniques,

55:15

once we learn that, not so

55:17

easy is doable, but of

55:19

course, it's difficult. Right,

55:22

so really what you're

55:24

what you're saying is

55:26

that for people who

55:28

want to develop this

55:30

capacity meditation training That

55:32

is the the time-tested

55:34

Method a progressive series

55:37

of meditation training

55:39

practices like you offer at

55:41

Tiergar. Yes, yes, so we have

55:43

these three things the view first

55:46

at the perspective then

55:48

experiential meditation

55:50

number three apply in

55:52

everyday life application. So

55:54

need these three components.

55:57

Then we can transform.

55:59

One last. point, Rinpochet,

56:01

to talk about together, which

56:04

is this quality of confidence.

56:06

And you say that confidence comes

56:08

when we can have faith

56:10

and trust that in the

56:12

uncertainty in that gap there

56:14

will be new life, a

56:16

type of regeneration. And I

56:18

wonder what you can share

56:20

with people to give them,

56:22

to help them have that

56:24

kind of confidence, no matter.

56:26

what part of the journey

56:29

they're in right now. So in our

56:31

tradition, we believe

56:33

that everybody has basic

56:35

in it goodness that

56:38

no matter what happened to

56:40

us and what kind of

56:42

situation facing in our

56:44

life, but this wonderful nature

56:47

with us all the time.

56:49

So sky is always there,

56:51

even though there's a

56:53

lot of cloud and storms.

56:55

So But important

56:58

is try to connect

57:00

that inner sky through

57:02

the making friends

57:04

with the ups and downs

57:06

of the life. But I'm

57:09

saying that like if you

57:11

go somewhere and you

57:13

reach the dead end huge

57:15

wall and if you're

57:18

thinking that I can

57:20

go through this wall by

57:22

banking my head. That is

57:25

impossible. Need to accept

57:28

that. Most people sometimes

57:31

don't there. It doesn't

57:33

mean you cannot cross

57:35

the wall. So many

57:37

different ways. Even maybe

57:39

you cannot cross all over

57:42

all, but they might have

57:44

another opportunity also.

57:46

Another possibility.

57:49

Another way to learn and

57:51

grow. So potential. possibility,

57:55

opportunity, always

57:57

there. But whether you...

58:00

pursue that or not, that is

58:02

the issue. I mean, Girimpeche,

58:04

I feel honored to be able to

58:06

have had this chance to talk

58:08

with you and bring your teaching

58:11

to the sounds true community. And

58:13

I wonder, could we end,

58:15

I'm going to ask one more

58:17

thing with the blessing of some

58:20

kind for all of our listeners

58:22

and then further out even

58:24

for anyone who the molecules this

58:26

recording might touch in any

58:29

way. and with some kind

58:31

of shared blessing together,

58:34

would that be okay? Yes,

58:36

and I'm also very happy

58:38

and appreciate to have this

58:41

with this program and

58:43

through your channel helping

58:45

many, many people really

58:48

appreciate it. And I will

58:50

pray that through this

58:52

conversation and all our

58:54

positive effort that helped

58:57

society, community, to

58:59

the world. And

59:01

may all things

59:03

have happiness and

59:05

the causes of

59:08

happiness. May all things

59:10

free from suffering

59:13

and the causes of

59:15

suffering. And we

59:18

all discover the

59:20

mother luminosity. That

59:22

right here, right

59:24

now, within us. Thank

59:29

you. Mingu Rinpache. Thank

59:31

you so very very much.

59:33

Thanks, friends. And if

59:36

you'd like to watch Insights at

59:38

the Edge on video and

59:40

participate in the after-show

59:43

Q&A session with our

59:45

guests, come join us

59:47

on Sounds True One,

59:50

a new membership community

59:52

featuring award-winning

59:54

original shows, live

59:56

classes. Community Learning, guided

59:59

meditation. and more with the

1:00:01

the leading wisdom teachers of

1:00:03

our time. of Use promo

1:00:05

code, code, to get your

1:00:07

first month free. You can

1:00:09

learn more at can learn

1:00:11

more.com. Sounds true, waking up

1:00:14

the world. world.