0:01

This is a CBC Podcast. Hi,

0:06

I'm Nora Young and this is a special

0:08

bonus edition of Spark for podcast listeners. I'm

0:10

here to tell you some news that you

0:13

may or may not have heard already. Nora

0:15

Young has recently won a Gracie

0:19

Award for Best Host in Nationally Syndicated

0:21

Non-commercial Radio. Yes, that's right. But that

0:23

wasn't what I was going to say.

0:25

Also, this is Spark Senior Producer, Michelle

0:27

Parisi. Hello, but it's still a big

0:29

deal and I wanted to say it.

0:31

The Gracies are an international award presented by

0:34

the Alliance for Women in Media in the

0:36

US and this is their 49th year. And

0:38

only one CBC host other than you has

0:40

ever won the Best Host and that was

0:42

no less than Anna Maria Tremonti in 2016.

0:46

And so I salute you. In

0:48

fact, I nominated you for the award

0:50

and that's because of the tremendous impact

0:52

that you've had on tech journalism in

0:55

Canada and more broadly on all of

0:57

us who get to work with you.

0:59

There were very few women hosts and producers

1:01

of tech shows in 2007 when you started

1:04

Spark and so I

1:07

call you a real trailblazer. Thank you, Michelle,

1:09

and thank you for nominating me. But

1:11

folks, we're actually here to say that in case you

1:14

missed the announcement I made at the end of a

1:17

recent podcast, after 17 years, CBC has

1:19

chosen to end Spark. So,

1:21

see why I started with the good news? I

1:23

do. Well, unfortunately, it's true. Our

1:25

last original podcast episode will come out on

1:27

the feed on June 21st and

1:29

as a subscriber to the Spark podcast, which we're

1:31

very grateful for, we wanted to make a special

1:33

announcement to you on the podcast feed. And

1:36

that last episode will be episode 619.

1:42

Fun fact, the first Spark came out on

1:44

September 5th, 2007. So,

1:48

since I didn't join the team until season 4 a

1:50

few years later, I was wondering

1:52

if you would regale me with early

1:54

tales of Spark. Gather round the rocking

1:56

chair. Okay, sure. So,

1:58

what do you remember? about

2:00

how you came up with the idea for

2:03

the show in the first place because to

2:05

me you were way ahead of the game

2:07

in 2007 in terms of thinking about the

2:09

effects of technology on the culture and

2:11

thinking that that was something worth podcasting

2:13

and broadcasting about. Yeah it's interesting I've

2:15

been thinking about it because now

2:18

I find myself again thinking like what do I want to do which

2:20

was kind of the same point I was at 17 years

2:23

ago and I really had

2:25

this clarified moment of just asking myself actually you know

2:28

very simply what do you really want to do and

2:30

then just it actually all just kind of snapped

2:33

into place like this is what I really want to do so

2:35

partly it's selfishness I guess is the answer

2:37

but but on top of that and more

2:40

measured way like it did seem like

2:42

in 2007 it was a chance

2:44

to kind of address and seize

2:46

the opportunity of web 2.0 of

2:48

the kind of flattening of media

2:50

hierarchies that was happening then you know breaking

2:53

the boundaries between broadcasters podcasters bloggers

2:55

mainstream media and so on and

2:57

just kind of flattening that and

3:00

finding all of the space in between like

3:02

news and current affairs and arts for sort

3:04

of a new kind of coverage in the

3:06

interstices of those those things. Yeah and you

3:08

really did that and you have been doing

3:10

that and it's been morphing and changing all

3:12

these 17 years and it's kind of amazing

3:15

what you did. Do you

3:17

want to hear the beginning of

3:19

the very first episode of S.F.A.R.T.?

3:22

I'm not sure that I do but let's

3:24

play it anyway. Hello hello okay great. Broadcasting

3:28

Corporation. This is on the

3:31

air online. cbc.ca.

3:43

Watch an interactive movie, savor an

3:45

omelet, clean the crud off your

3:47

keyboard all in 27 minutes. politics

4:00

path. I would share a calculator with a

4:02

friend. An exam with multiple choice. And so one

4:04

of us would figure out the answer for something and put it

4:06

on the calculator and slide it over to the other one. I

4:08

thought it would be clever. And we'd both get all the right

4:10

answers. One thing for sure cheating

4:12

may not be new but the way kids are cheating

4:14

is. Well MP3 players are so small they could

4:17

be anywhere on their body and we'd have no

4:19

clue about it. But in terms of earphones they

4:21

actually put them through the back. MP3 players.

4:26

And did you hear that little dial-up modem

4:28

sound at the beginning of the

4:30

theme there? What I

4:32

really admired actually about those early years is

4:35

the way that you guys involved

4:37

the audience so much. It's like it

4:39

was a real participatory dialogue with them.

4:41

And you actually even had a name

4:43

for them right? It was a broader

4:46

spark community. And so to me not

4:48

only was spark one of the first

4:50

podcasts from CBC you guys had a

4:52

WordPress blog, you had a wiki, you

4:55

were on Twitter and YouTube before anyone at

4:57

CBC even knew what those things were. And

5:00

like our way that the audience was really

5:02

involved in the show it was

5:04

very special. Yeah it was interesting and

5:06

I have to say that Dan Meisner one

5:09

of the founding producers of the show had a

5:11

large responsibility in the actual sound of

5:13

the show. And it was kind of inspired by this idea

5:15

of like what would the internet sound like if

5:17

it was a radio show slash podcast. So we would

5:19

do things like post the topic

5:21

for an interview and then ask for questions from

5:24

the broader spark community. People would send

5:26

in their questions I would include them in the

5:28

interview and then we would post the full unedited

5:30

interview to the blog and then people would have

5:32

reactions to that and then we would find a

5:34

way to incorporate all of that and cut it

5:36

down and somehow make it into the final

5:39

product on the radio show and podcast.

5:41

It was a lot of work but

5:43

it was also very cool to think about

5:45

that how you would get at that

5:47

sound of like breaking down hierarchies in

5:49

your actual audio product. So cool, very cool.

5:51

Also another thing that was different back then was

5:54

that spark had a budget. Which

5:57

is something we haven't had. For

6:00

many, many, many years, we used to be

6:03

able to pay freelance journalists from all over

6:05

the world to make interesting stories. And

6:07

there were the kinds of stories we otherwise wouldn't be able to

6:10

hear. And I actually have

6:12

some special messages to play for you today from

6:14

some of those people from around the world. Do

6:16

you want to hear some? Let's do

6:18

it. Roll the tape. I'm

6:20

just talking to myself. Because

6:23

at Spark, we all do everything

6:25

and I am the one rolling the

6:27

tape. Hi. My name's

6:29

Saruus Faravar. I worked on

6:32

Spark as a contributor, freelancer

6:34

way back in the late 2000s. My

6:37

last piece was, wow, gosh, more

6:39

than 10 years ago now. When Google Fiber

6:42

went live, Spark contributor Saruus Faravar went to

6:44

KCK to check it out. Hi, Saruus. Hey,

6:46

Nora. So is Google Fiber... Anyway,

6:48

I just wanted to give a shout out from

6:51

my home here in Oakland, California in the lower

6:53

48 to Nora Young and the whole team at

6:55

Spark for really just making an incredible show over

6:58

these 17 years. It's

7:00

really brought me a lot to think about over

7:02

the years. One of my favorite

7:05

pieces that I got to do for Spark

7:07

was a piece about my experience of giving

7:09

my grandmother a cell phone. This was an

7:11

episode that aired May 23rd, 2010. It

7:14

was called Grammy Cell Phone. Here

7:16

press the red button. That

7:19

says and. Right, but it's also a power button.

7:22

Oh, all right. Hold that button until it's

7:24

on. The end? Aha.

7:29

It brings me great joy to listen to that piece

7:31

again. In the intervening years,

7:33

my grandmother has passed away, but hearing her

7:36

voice in that piece brings

7:38

me a lot of joy and remembers the curiosity

7:40

that we shared. Oh,

7:42

I hear it ringing. Hi,

7:45

Grammy. Hi, Grammy. I

7:48

do hear you. Oh, there's your voice.

7:51

Just how fun it was to just do

7:53

a radio piece with my grandmother, which is

7:55

something that I didn't get to do anywhere

7:57

else. So, thank you Spark for that wonderful.

8:00

opportunity. Thank you Nora, thanks to the whole

8:02

team. We'll miss you. Hi,

8:08

I'm David Katenberg. I

8:11

produced a few segments for

8:13

Spark in recent years. DNA

8:15

barcoding was fun. Old tape

8:17

talk was the best. The

8:19

cloud doesn't make a sound.

8:21

Old devices

8:23

do. Thanks

8:26

to Nora and Michelle for letting

8:28

me express passionate love for

8:30

my shoulder-held reel-to-reel 1967 vintage

8:34

mononagra 3 to CBC

8:36

radio listeners. Police

8:38

waving me through as

8:40

seven and a half inch reel

8:43

floaty rotated. Just like

8:45

old analog recordings, Spark will

8:47

be fondly celebrated, even listens

8:50

to by intrepid radio archivists

8:52

for as many generations. Asta

8:55

LaVista, Nora, Michelle and

8:58

Spark. I love

9:00

that and you know we have a

9:02

soft spot for vintage tech on the

9:04

show. Thanks to Saruis and David for

9:06

that. That's very sweet. Okay, I have

9:08

another one. Hello sparklers, it's

9:10

Kathy Bond and I just heard

9:13

that the show's been canceled. Well,

9:16

I think that is a great loss for

9:19

Canada because Spark is just the best. I

9:22

had the opportunity of being on

9:24

air with Nora a few times

9:26

and I got to play with

9:28

Pico projectors and all sorts of

9:30

different immersive technologies that

9:32

fascinated me. Very fascinating. And

9:34

to see this little dot here,

9:36

yeah, that is a camera. It's

9:39

a 1080 high-def camera

9:42

with audio recording capability.

9:44

Wow, I know. Hey, wait a

9:46

minute. Are you filming me right

9:49

now? Oh, get out of

9:51

here. So I just wanted to wish you all the best

9:54

and to thank you so much for the

9:56

opportunity to be on the very best tech

9:58

radio show in Canada. Thanks

10:00

Nora, thanks Michelle, and

10:03

thanks to Elizabeth Bowie who was there right

10:06

way back in the beginning. Okay, best of

10:08

luck all. Bye bye. That's

10:11

so great. She was very fun to

10:13

do stuff. Yeah. Very fun

10:15

to do stuff with. So

10:17

you heard Kathy actually mention Elizabeth Bowie there.

10:19

Yeah. And that's because there was

10:21

a time before me on the show. Mm-hmm. No,

10:24

I'd like to pretend that there wasn't. So

10:26

why don't you tell me a little bit about

10:28

the original Spark team in 2007 and

10:30

how they helped you shape the vision.

10:32

Sure, yeah. Dan Meisner and Elizabeth

10:35

Bowie, both very talented journalists and

10:37

audio people. And although

10:39

as I said before, Spark was my idea, the

10:42

whole feeling of the show,

10:44

the sound of it, everything that became in

10:47

those early years was definitely like a three-legged

10:49

table with three of us for sure. And

10:51

I can't tell you how much a debt of gratitude

10:53

I owe to both of them. Yeah, they're both

10:55

amazing and they've gone on to amazing things.

10:58

Elizabeth went on to

11:00

create Because News on CBC Radio and

11:02

TV. And Dan

11:04

does something big time with podcasts. I

11:07

don't know what he does. What does

11:09

he do? He's the co-founder of Bumper,

11:11

which is a podcast growth agency. And

11:14

as I say, we're very, very grateful to both of them. Now,

11:17

Michelle, we've talked about the early days, but you

11:19

joined in 2010 as senior producer. So what did

11:21

you make of the show when you first joined, a

11:23

show leader? Yeah, I

11:25

was pretty intimidated actually because I

11:28

didn't consider myself a techie. I

11:31

wasn't an early adopter or even

11:33

an in-time adopter. I was just

11:36

like, I knew nothing about

11:38

the content. And I certainly didn't

11:40

know half of the things

11:42

that you and Dan were talking about when I joined.

11:45

But I didn't know journalism and storytelling. I

11:48

think what I brought to the

11:50

team was representing the average person.

11:53

Every time I was like, what are

11:55

you talking about? We always

11:57

put stories about copyright and interoperability. But

12:00

you became as geeky as the rest of us know

12:02

this stuff after not too long. I

12:05

did. But

12:07

the very first episode that I

12:09

produced was episode 119. And

12:13

actually for that very first episode, I produced

12:15

a doc with someone who just the year

12:17

before was my intern when I worked in

12:19

CBC Music. Oh wow. Yeah. And

12:22

now that person, Noseloud, is the

12:24

executive producer of CBC Podcasts, here's

12:26

a message from him. Hi,

12:30

I'm Sosa Fernandez. I made a doc

12:32

for Spark in the summer of 2010. It

12:35

was about the absurd amount of technology my

12:37

family takes when they go camping. Electric

12:40

frying pans, enormous camper vans,

12:43

even a mini fridge. How

12:45

many extension cords do you have? I have

12:47

four extensions going now, separate ones. Because

12:50

we have three

12:53

different types of heating elements going and

12:55

they blow. So you're roughing it then?

12:57

Yeah, roughing it. But

13:01

nearly 15 years later, it's the

13:03

final scene. My entire family sitting

13:05

around a campfire with my grandfather,

13:07

who's since passed away, that

13:09

stays with me. We play games, roast

13:11

marshmallows, and just sit and listen to

13:13

the crickets. It was such a special

13:15

chance to get to capture that moment

13:17

on tape and to be able to

13:19

hear all their voices years later. My

13:23

grandfather sits in his wheelchair with a

13:25

smile on his face, the fire reflecting

13:27

in his thick glasses. It's

13:30

his 91st birthday and he's surrounded

13:32

by his family. I

13:34

guess we all have our own ideas of what camping should

13:36

be. Oh,

13:41

thank you, Cecil. That's lovely. And I love that

13:43

idea of hearing people's voices from long ago. Yeah,

13:46

it's a really nice piece. Okay,

13:48

so I actually have more messages. Do you want

13:50

to hear them, Nora Young? This is yours, Light.

13:53

And yours, don't forget, you've been leading this park

13:55

for 14 years. That's no small feat. Thank

13:57

you. It's had its moments. But

14:01

some of the most rewarding work was when

14:04

I got to work with freelancers, not only

14:06

vetting their scripts and helping them shape the

14:08

story, but in the studio, directing them and

14:11

helping them bring their narration alive. Hi,

14:14

I'm Denny Grignell. I've been a regular

14:16

freelance contributor to a number of CBC

14:18

radio shows over the years. But

14:20

without a doubt, the stories that I

14:22

produced for Spark were my favorite. So

14:24

many reasons why, but really they boil

14:26

down to this. Michelle, Cantonora,

14:29

and all the people who made

14:31

that place their home, they just

14:33

got it. Dusty,

14:35

unpaved road to nowhere. With

14:38

the frustration. To anger. To

14:40

fear. Good. Try the last

14:42

one again. Yeah. Without

14:45

the twos. Okay. Instead, I felt alone

14:47

and vulnerable on this bumpy, dusty, unpaved road to

14:49

nowhere. To frustration. Anger.

14:53

Fear. That was great. They

14:58

knew how to take a story idea and shape

15:00

it and make it smart, informative, and

15:02

fun, all while allowing me and

15:05

other contributors to still tell it

15:07

in our voice. I've learned this

15:09

is a rare quality in

15:11

a show and its producers. I'm going to miss

15:14

you Spark. You taught me so, so much about

15:16

the world of tech, of course, but also how

15:19

to be a better broadcaster. Ben

15:21

Shannon? I'll

15:24

never forget that time I had to

15:27

record a voiceover for Spark. In my

15:29

undershirt, because my dress shirt was too

15:31

loud. Good. The only thing is

15:33

my shirt. Oh, can you hear my shirt? Oh, I might

15:35

have stupid noisy shirt. Anytime

15:38

I got to work with the Spark team, it

15:40

was an absolute masterclass in storytelling.

15:43

I'm so thankful and honored to have

15:45

been just a small part of that

15:47

magic. Jimi Hendrix or

15:49

Miles Davis rocking a touch interfaced.

15:52

Interfaced. Rocking a touch interfaced.

15:56

Here I am. Rock you

15:58

like an interfaced. A

16:01

virtuoso like Jimi Hendrix or Miles Davis

16:04

rocking a touch interface. It's good.

16:07

But by far, one of the true

16:09

highlights of helping out Spark over the years was the

16:11

time that I got to be Dr.

16:14

Frankenstein in a voiceover.

16:17

I had been the author of

16:20

unalterable evils. I lived

16:22

in daily fear lest the monster whom

16:24

I had created should have

16:26

betrayed some new wickedness. Thank

16:29

you for everything Spark. I love you Nora. I love you

16:31

Michelle. Oh, I love that. That's nice.

16:35

Yeah, Ben and Denise, thank you both so

16:37

much. And I have to say you'll notice

16:39

that I'm wearing a t-shirt today because I did

16:41

not know you complained that I was wearing a

16:43

rustly dress shirt in the studio. I

16:45

appreciate that so much. But I do have to say

16:47

Michelle, you are really an excellent producer in

16:50

many ways, but especially in

16:52

studio and bringing really good performances out of people

16:54

like in a very natural way, which

16:56

is not easy to do. Thank you. That's

16:59

really nice of you. You're welcome. Okay, let's

17:01

talk about interns for a second. Because

17:03

over the years we've had a lot of interns

17:06

on Spark who came from colleges and universities and

17:08

they would do like six weeks stints with us.

17:11

And a lot of those people went on to

17:13

get jobs in journalism, jobs at CPC even. Yeah,

17:15

and not only that, one intern

17:17

in particular went on to replace

17:19

me, a senior producer of Spark

17:22

many times. Hi, I'm

17:24

Olufusa Rakhna. I've had

17:26

the privilege of working on Spark on and off

17:28

for almost a decade. Spark

17:30

is where I had my national radio debut

17:32

as the Russian smart light bulb in a

17:35

segment about communication breakdown in the Internet of

17:37

Things. It's

17:41

been so amazing to watch the show and its

17:43

stories evolve as technology became more

17:45

and more ingrained into every aspect of our

17:47

lives. For me, the biggest

17:49

example of that were the shows we produced during

17:51

the pandemic. In early March 2020,

17:54

we thought it would be fun to do

17:56

a show about remote work while working remotely.

17:59

But the week-long- experiment we planned instead

18:01

turned into months of making radio from

18:03

our living rooms and home offices. The

18:07

thought of a pandemic winter spent indoors

18:09

doesn't seem as daunting now, knowing that

18:11

it also means seasonal crafts and events

18:13

and animal crossing. It's as much of

18:15

a getaway as 2020 permits. And

18:19

the stories we worked on, Zoom

18:22

fatigue, ventilation systems, digital access gaps,

18:24

they were all extremely prescient. And

18:27

I think they were perfect examples of Spark

18:29

fulfilling its mission of being the companion guide

18:31

to your digital life. I

18:33

will miss Spark a lot. Thank goodness

18:36

we have 17 seasons worth of audio

18:38

archives to turn to when we're sad. Thank

18:40

you guys so much. I love Spark.

18:43

I love all the Sparkies. Here's

18:45

to bigger and better things. Oh,

18:48

Ozzy, that's great to hear from her. She

18:50

did an excellent job as a smart

18:52

light bulb. What have many people who

18:54

portrayed inanimate objects as part of the

18:56

Spark family players and also an excellent

18:58

producer? Yes, an excellent producer

19:00

and an excellent senior producer in

19:02

my stead. Okay, we're

19:05

almost wrapping up. I just have one

19:07

more question for you, Nora. It's a really important

19:09

one. Over

19:12

these past 17 years and

19:14

600 plus shows, who

19:16

is your favorite producer? I

19:18

can't answer that. Come on.

19:20

It's okay. I know it's

19:22

me. We've

19:25

had the pleasure and privilege to work with so

19:27

many great producers over the years, some for just a

19:29

short time, some for a long time, but only

19:31

one of them went ahead and retired on

19:33

us. And I guess that's why

19:35

he had time to send this message. Hi,

19:39

I'm Kent Hoffman and I spent

19:41

many years working as a producer on Spark. A

19:44

Spark is the start of something. It

19:47

can be a feeling of enthusiasm. Spark

19:50

the program was about fresh ideas. I

19:53

like to think of a Spark as the energy

19:55

that sets fire to something bigger. During

19:57

my time at Spark, I always thought of Nora as

20:00

as the keeper of that flame. And

20:02

Nora, you did that by really listening to

20:04

people and taking the time to remind them

20:06

that their ideas mattered. Working together,

20:08

we all considered those ideas carefully because I

20:10

think it matters to be present in the

20:13

moment to try and shape the future. But

20:16

we also found a joy in that and we laughed a

20:18

lot. Well, who

20:20

am I? Dash, dash, dash. Oh, Dash, where's

20:22

Dash? Oh, there we are. So the premise

20:24

here is that you pulled out this

20:27

crazy new elaborate technology.

20:29

All right. Next, all we need

20:32

is this. Next,

20:34

all we need is this. Being

20:41

part of Spark always felt like being part

20:43

of the potential for something bigger. To

20:46

Nora and all my friends and colleagues at Spark,

20:48

thanks for making me think. Thanks

20:50

for making me laugh. And thanks

20:53

for making Spark. Thanks,

20:55

Kent. It was such a pleasure to work with

20:57

Kent. And you know, I have to say

20:59

he did a lot of kinds of journalism on Spark that

21:01

we didn't otherwise have. Like stories about cars

21:04

and submarines, especially. Special of submarines. But he

21:06

also did a lot of really great work

21:08

on prisons and in tech and the justice

21:11

system. And probably really brought a unique perspective

21:13

to the show. He really did.

21:15

And he really had a thing for writing

21:17

a really great jingle or

21:19

a sting or a skit. He

21:23

liked to write them. He liked to

21:25

mix them. He liked to act in them. I

21:27

loved acting in them. Would you

21:29

like to hear a short roundup of

21:31

Kent's best stings and

21:33

jingles? I would. Previously

21:36

on Spark. It

21:38

seems like a bad idea. Watch

21:43

it. Watch Hamilton. Watch

21:49

that text buzzword. Buzzword.

21:53

He wants the cake and he

21:56

wants the icing. It's time once

21:58

again for Third Friday. Hi, sir!

22:01

It's the Surge Pricing Show! On

22:04

this week's program, tempers flare when

22:06

Surge Pricing holds a grass sale

22:08

and his next-door neighbor, B. Frugal,

22:10

decides to drop on by. Oh,

22:13

hi, sir! Well, hi, Mary! Is this

22:15

lamp really only $5? Well,

22:18

not exactly. What do you

22:20

mean? Well, some other people

22:22

want this lamp, so now

22:24

it's $10! That

22:28

doesn't seem fair! Well,

22:31

that's Surge Pricing! Oh!

22:35

Oh, Surge! You

22:38

should be a magician. You

22:40

know just how to make my

22:42

money disappear. You

22:50

can hear the shell acting

22:53

and singing there. You're really

22:55

a multi-faceted senior producer. Triple

22:57

threat! Absolutely. And I'm going to take

23:00

this moment, I know I can say thank you, thank you to everybody,

23:02

but thank you so much, Michelle. You are such a

23:04

talented, gifted producer,

23:06

gifted artist in so many ways, and I'm honored

23:08

to work with you. Thank you so

23:10

much. Okay,

23:13

let's say goodbye. Let's

23:16

say thank you to everyone who sent

23:18

in messages, and we got

23:20

a lot of emails and other kind of responses.

23:22

We had a lot of lovely, lovely outpouring

23:24

of messages, emails from

23:26

people, in-person support, appreciation for Spark,

23:29

friends and colleagues, and people from the broader Spark

23:31

community. It was really, really touching

23:33

and lovely, and thank you so much. I really

23:35

appreciate it. Yeah, it's been really great. We're

23:38

going out on the high note. The Season

23:40

17, we didn't know it was going to

23:43

be our last season, but you're Gracie Award

23:45

for Best Host, and we've been consistently putting

23:47

out pretty great programming that I feel very

23:49

proud of. Thanks in big part to our

23:52

producers, Sam, Johannes, and Megan

23:54

Carty, who are just great to work

23:56

with, and a sprinkling of Samir Chabra

23:58

at the beginning of the season. Yeah, absolutely 100%

24:01

thanks to Sam and Megan who are

24:03

both extremely talented producers. But I have to take

24:05

this moment to thank, like we've had so many

24:07

great colleagues and producers over the 17 years that

24:09

have all had such a huge part in what

24:11

the show has been over the years and it's

24:14

been an incredible run and none

24:16

of it would have been the same without you and thanks for

24:19

all the heavy lifting. But it's not

24:21

over right now at this very

24:23

second. We

24:26

do have new episodes coming up for the next

24:28

month or so until the end of June. In

24:31

fact, we actually have to go and make this week's show

24:33

so we better get out of the studio and get back

24:35

to work. Okay, bye. Bye.