0:01

The following is a conversation with Jos

0:03

L , bitcoin enthusiast

0:05

and co-founder of Blockrise , who

0:07

are creating the gold standard for crypto

0:10

asset management . In this conversation

0:12

, we'll explore innovating in the financial

0:14

sector , the future of cryptocurrency

0:17

as an asset class and the

0:19

opportunities that lie ahead in this rapidly

0:22

evolving space . So , whether

0:24

you are a dedicated hodler or

0:26

a Bitcoin skeptic , keep

0:28

listening . I'm your host , lars

0:31

Kramer , and this is Start to Scale , the

0:33

podcast where we explore the scale-up journeys

0:35

of remarkable founders . Well

0:38

, jost is one of those remarkable founders because

0:40

he's a passionate entrepreneur who started

0:42

his journey early , registering his

0:44

first business at the age of only

0:46

15 . In 2013

0:48

, he got involved in Bitcoin and became captivated

0:51

by its transformative potential . And

0:53

, while pursuing a bachelor's degree in

0:55

aerospace engineering , his fascination

0:57

with blockchain led him to found Blockrise

1:00

, where he now serves as CEO . Today

1:03

, blockrise is a trusted partner to

1:05

prominent individuals , corporations

1:07

and family offices who want to have complete

1:09

control over their digital assets , and

1:12

I think when Jos is not in the BlockRise

1:14

office , you may find him on the golf court

1:16

or in anything that flies , drives or

1:18

sails . Jos , great to have you here

1:20

. Thank you very much . Cool , you are

1:22

an early Bitcoin adopter , so obviously

1:25

I want to know what's the first thing you ever bought

1:27

with Bitcoin .

1:29

Oof . I actually

1:31

I used to pay my domain services and

1:33

web services for a long time with

1:35

Bitcoin , especially around 2015

1:38

, 2016 . Okay , and that kind of

1:40

hurts afterwards .

1:41

So in hindsight , yeah , yeah , always

1:43

in hindsight , okay .

1:45

At least it was a very usable tool for me .

1:46

Perfect so you didn't buy a pizza , but

1:48

you bought web services for the first exactly

1:51

, and there we go .

1:51

Very expensive domain names , very expensive domain names

1:54

, cool .

1:55

Um well , great , great to have you

1:57

here . You found a block rise in 2017 . You

1:59

have great office here at the black in rotterdam , yet

2:02

you've been under the radar for us

2:04

. So I can't wait to dive into your story

2:06

and learn all about you . But

2:08

always we start with four statements that

2:10

you can answer with true or false . You

2:13

ready ?

2:14

So ready .

2:16

Bitcoin is a speculative asset

2:18

.

2:19

False .

2:21

Not your keys , not your coins . True

2:24

, by 2030

2:26

, the financial sector will

2:28

have fully embraced crypto .

2:31

False .

2:33

And the final one I can sleep just as

2:35

comfortably in the back of a car as in

2:37

a five-star hotel , 100%

2:39

true , True there we go . Cool

2:41

, let's go back to the beginning . You

2:43

came across Bitcoin in in 2013

2:46

. How did that change your perspective on technology

2:48

and finance and and kind of what made

2:50

you decide to dive deeper

2:52

into blockchain ?

2:54

so I actually I got him uh , introduced

2:56

to bitcoin through dumpert , which is a

2:58

, a dutch video website

3:01

basically , and it was just the bitcoinorg

3:04

introduction video of , I think , two

3:06

minutes and I it really striked

3:08

me from a um , like technological

3:11

uh perspective , like a peer-to-peer network

3:13

torrenting was very popular at the time . It

3:15

seemed kind of similar to that

3:17

and that got me involved in first

3:19

. So the whole financial aspect of it

3:21

kind of , yeah , laid low

3:23

for the time being and I just sat on it

3:25

. So that was my first introduction

3:28

and focus , and only years

3:31

later , you know , it became more

3:33

of a trading asset . I think most people that get

3:35

introduced in this , yeah

3:37

, this new asset , look at it from a

3:39

trading perspective and then , only much

3:42

later , in 2017 , I was like like , okay

3:44

, this is going to be big , I need to

3:46

get involved , but in a in a more reliable

3:48

manner and that's what the block price came

3:51

to in the end cool .

3:52

So it triggered you because it was peer-to-peer

3:54

. Uh , the technology triggered you and then later

3:57

you um , dove into

3:59

the financial aspect . So so maybe for people

4:01

out there because we'll probably have listeners who are very

4:03

adept at Bitcoin and some are not , but maybe to

4:05

a layman , explain the technology

4:08

behind , specifically , bitcoin as a crypto

4:10

.

4:10

Yeah , so Bitcoin , specifically

4:13

, is a decentralized , peer-to-peer

4:16

cash system . So it's basically a network

4:18

of computers that communicate with each other

4:20

and on this network you can

4:23

do transactions , and

4:27

it's completely decentralized . So , as it is peer-to-peer

4:29

, there's no intervention possible . There's

4:31

also no uh censoration possible

4:34

and you know like you

4:36

can use this , in my opinion , to

4:38

the , the good ends and the and the and the

4:40

bad ends , and it has had a lot of media

4:42

attention towards this , but in

4:44

the end , it gives this complete freedom

4:46

and , uh , you know

4:49

like you decide what you do with your assets

4:51

.

4:52

Uh , and that is what really , yeah , pulled

4:54

me in yeah , and it's also what sets it apart

4:56

from other uh , crypto , right , because people often

4:58

confuse bitcoin with with crypto

5:00

in a general sense , uh , and there's

5:03

a big difference between those two . Yeah .

5:05

I really see Bitcoin as a commodity , you

5:07

know , comparable to gold or perhaps a digital

5:09

gold , and there's still a lot of

5:11

possibilities . It's relatively

5:13

slow , which is one of the counter arguments a lot

5:16

of people make , but

5:21

this is Bitcoin compared to cryptocurrency assets like Ethereum , for example , which

5:23

I see more as a platform or utility

5:26

, which is , in nowadays

5:28

world , more comparable to company stocks . Yeah

5:31

, and companies behind it that

5:34

have a certain function , yeah , and

5:36

I mean , in the end , we , for now

5:38

at least , very much focus on Bitcoin because

5:40

it's a . It's a huge world on its own

5:42

already , but of course

5:44

, the technology is kind of similar behind

5:46

it .

5:47

Yeah . And then you said , well , in

5:49

2017 , you started a business

5:51

with it . What was the initial inspiration

5:53

behind Blockrise ? And I'm also curious

5:56

how has that vision perhaps evolved

5:58

since you started the company ?

6:01

Well , it has evolved . So

6:03

in 2015-16 , I

6:06

started my aerospace engineering studies at

6:08

the udelft and I didn't really like the

6:10

lectures . I really liked the studies but , uh

6:12

, it was hard to focus on on the lectures

6:15

, especially when I found my bitcoin

6:17

stash and I started my trading

6:19

phase so you were with your laptop

6:21

in the in in the lectures , yeah , and actually our

6:23

current product manager saw that started talking to me and I know him . Yeah , and actually

6:25

our current product manager saw that started talking to me and I know him from aerospace

6:27

and he's now a product manager at Blockrise , which

6:29

is funny . But anyway , that

6:32

trading aspect got me in first , and then

6:34

other people first family and friends and in

6:36

the end , also external clients wanted to be

6:38

involved . So that

6:40

was the first two years until

6:43

Blockrise was founded in 2017

6:46

. And basically it was founded

6:48

just to manage those people , to

6:50

offer them what I was doing in a more secure

6:52

manner . Still a little bit

6:54

on the trading focus . However

6:57

, I found , or we found , that the

6:59

storage of these assets , especially

7:01

Bitcoin , was very complicated . To assure

7:03

this in a way that you know it will

7:06

be completely independent of me , because that was always

7:08

my , uh , my biggest challenge

7:10

, and I mean , yeah

7:12

, that that was a challenge on its own . So we almost

7:14

had two years to to solve the custody

7:17

part and so the

7:19

safeguarding of of of assets

7:21

yeah and then we only

7:23

got started and the regulations came

7:25

and trading , you know , and bank

7:27

accounts and all the other challenges

7:29

that we had to face .

7:31

Um , so yeah , we went through a transformation

7:33

of being a just a trading platform to

7:35

now being a bitcoin asset manager

7:38

yeah , for like a private bank for bitcoin

7:40

yeah , and you've evolved based on

7:42

the need of your clients and I

7:44

think you've onboarded some

7:46

prominent customers , family offices , asset

7:48

managers Maybe

7:51

there's asset owners or family offices listening now

7:53

, and why would they want exposure

7:55

to Bitcoin at all ? And then , secondly

7:57

, what's difficult or hard about it

7:59

and I think you leaned into it with

8:01

the custody but why would it be an interesting

8:03

asset for them ?

8:05

So usually I came

8:07

to the conclusion , as part of my transformation here

8:09

as well , is that pitching

8:11

Bitcoin itself is quite complicated

8:13

. In the end , they need to realize themselves

8:15

that this is an asset class that they want

8:17

to put on their balance sheet . So

8:20

usually I pitch for a 1% Bitcoin

8:22

allocation of their total balance sheet either

8:24

net worth or balance sheet , depending on the entity

8:26

and from

8:29

that perspective they start , you know , doing their

8:31

own research on how does it work , what is the

8:33

potential , etc . And then we can surface them

8:35

to which extent they would like

8:37

this exposure . And

8:40

the main challenge is , I think , like

8:42

trading is not a problem . And the main challenge

8:44

is , I think , like trading is not a problem , there's

8:47

Coinbase and Kraken and all these other huge exchanges that you can buy large amounts

8:49

of Bitcoin . That's not the issue . But

8:51

then what ? Where do you keep it ? Where do you store

8:53

this ? What about the regulatory standards

8:55

that you ? Need to comply with Administration

8:58

. You know it's

9:00

very complicated for a lot of clients to

9:02

define a good price to buy Bitcoin

9:04

, so they're looking for a product

9:07

or service that can help them allocate it in

9:09

the correct manner . That is what we

9:11

do with asset management . We define how much

9:13

Bitcoin or how much Euro balance should

9:15

be in their portfolio . We manage

9:17

it . Those kind of things

9:19

is what the main challenge is what we see

9:21

now .

9:22

Okay , and then finally , the custody . So

9:25

normally if you buy on Coinbase , you would sit in

9:27

coinbase and there's a risk . So then in

9:29

your case the custody moves to . How does it work

9:31

?

9:31

so blockrise uh build their own

9:34

um custody solution and

9:36

we really wanted to rely on other custody

9:38

providers , like that's really how we started

9:40

um . However , nobody could , and

9:43

still can't , provide the custody that we

9:45

were looking for Because we are

9:47

very stubborn

9:49

, I would say where every client

9:51

should have their own addresses

9:54

, their own Bitcoin wallets , so they can verify

9:56

their own Bitcoin assets or

9:58

crypto assets with us independently

10:00

of block rise right . So lending is

10:03

technically not possible , which is a

10:05

leading problem , I would say , in the crypto market

10:07

. Uh , the the transparency

10:09

that brought us to crypto now

10:11

is fighting against us . In the uh

10:13

most of the exchanges , there's no fire viability

10:15

we've seen companies like ftx

10:18

fall down . Yeah , um . So that

10:20

core principle is what we do at block rise

10:22

and that makes everything

10:24

a lot more complicated administration

10:27

wise , trading wise . Everything needs to happen on

10:29

the blockchain . There's no shortcuts , you know

10:31

, there's no mistakes . So integrity

10:34

and everything is so important and

10:36

that's what we managed to solve in

10:38

the last seven years .

10:39

Cool . But why are you doing that ? Because you could

10:41

also make a lot of money just on the trading .

10:43

I mean , if we started the trading platform which

10:45

was one of the pitches we

10:48

had to ourselves , like the three

10:50

of us that started the company yeah

10:53

, we would have made a lot more money . But , as

10:55

I said , I would like to be stop-borne and really

10:57

truly believe in an infrastructure

10:59

that is needed in this market to make

11:02

it more developed and

11:04

therefore we took no shortcuts , we will

11:06

never take shortcuts and we build it

11:08

at the pace and importance

11:11

that we think we value .

11:13

Yeah , and that also creates a really nice

11:15

space . I think into your offering , into

11:17

this space . And

11:19

then perhaps , how does it work from a revenue

11:23

model point of view ? How

11:25

do you make money in the end with this model and how would

11:27

that grow over time ?

11:28

Yeah , very important , Because

11:30

currently BlockRise is an asset manager

11:32

, so BlockRise has a

11:34

registration in the central bank and clients can

11:36

just onboard . So that means that there's a business relationship

11:39

between BlockRise and the client either personal

11:41

or corporate , and

11:43

then BlockRise is the service provider , so

11:46

clients can buy Bitcoin with us or

11:48

Ethereum . That's the two assets that we offer

11:50

or they can have it managed by us . So

11:53

those are the two only products that we offer . The

11:55

business model there is based on asset management

11:57

. It's a custody fee up to 1%

11:59

, it's a management fee up to 1% and

12:01

it's a performance fee if you use asset management

12:04

up to 15% and it's

12:06

a performance fee if you use asset management up to 15%

12:08

. That

12:12

is the current model Over time we want to offer this whole suite of services

12:14

as a white-labeled solution or a SaaS , and that's always the intention

12:16

. However , we do not do that yet because the market

12:18

is not ready yet and the license

12:20

I don't see asset managers , especially

12:23

smaller asset managers , acquiring a micar

12:26

license , the new cryptocurrency european

12:29

micar m-i-c-a-r yes

12:31

, markets in crypto assets regulation

12:33

there we go a european union-wide

12:35

crypto asset regulation which

12:37

comes into effect the 30th of december this year

12:39

okay it's very complicated . Yesterday

12:42

there was a fd article about it . Again

12:44

, lots of existing

12:46

parties will struggle , let

12:51

alone asset managers or banks that want to do this . So we can offer our

12:53

services , but to who is going to use our software ? And

12:55

in the end , we see this demand that

12:57

it's quite early still , so they want

12:59

us to be the asset manager , they want us

13:01

to be their sort of crypto bank and

13:04

in the future , we are ready to provide their sort of crypto bank and in the future , we are ready to provide

13:06

it as a , as a white label or as a service to

13:08

others .

13:08

Okay , so that's your growth model . Then also , um

13:11

, well , you talked about regulation , the me car , but

13:13

um , you've obtained registration

13:15

with day and bay , the netherlands bank

13:18

, and I think your afm license is on

13:20

its way . How do you navigate

13:22

such a , I would say , rather

13:24

conservative financial industry , and

13:27

what has surprised you most in the process ?

13:30

um , yeah , so very early on

13:32

, I would say I was a little bit against regulation

13:35

. You know , it's like this . It's this new thing

13:37

and it's this control which very , uh

13:39

, contradicts , you know , the the main

13:41

principles of of bitcoin . However

13:44

, uh , over years , I I build up a lot

13:46

of respect for the regulators and I've

13:48

learned that they are a lot more understanding

13:50

than I , um , than I had foreseen

13:52

okay however it was , it was a

13:54

challenge . You start with a letter , uh

13:56

, you have an introduction meeting and you

13:58

know it's we . We built everything

14:01

from scratch , so our software , but also our

14:03

uh , our registration with the dmb and now

14:05

our micro license . It's just

14:07

, there's a policy and you start writing

14:09

and we really took a software based

14:11

approach , so we didn't copy it from traditional

14:14

financial institutions or

14:16

something , so really from scratch , which

14:18

made it very dynamic and in

14:20

the end , I think , from the regulator and also

14:22

parties involved . With the regulators , like , like

14:24

financial supervision , whatever we

14:27

build up a very good bond connection

14:29

with them . We build up respect in the market you know

14:31

, because of our approach and

14:33

how we see things and really try to redefine

14:36

and set that gold standard that

14:38

we aim for . Yeah , from

14:40

scratch .

14:41

Cool and that's impressive because

14:43

you're probably they're learning as they are dealing

14:45

with your uh questions . Um

14:47

, so do you get any help ? Is there kind

14:50

of who's doing that in the company ?

14:52

um , well , so my co-founder

14:54

is cornelius jacobs , is a financial lawyer background

14:56

and uh , with the dmb process very

14:58

much involved . The two of us working day and night

15:01

to to to get this registration . Um

15:03

, right , we have a much larger

15:05

team . We have more advisors . There's also more advising

15:07

companies consultants available that were

15:10

not there in 2017 , and now

15:12

they're popping up everywhere and

15:14

there's some bigger players also getting involved

15:16

, so there's a lot more knowledge

15:20

to get from the market and

15:22

the regulations start to come closer

15:24

to existing regulations , like

15:26

mifid , too you know it's .

15:28

I think over time it will merge together in

15:30

one type of supervision

15:32

regulation , whereas now

15:34

it's still considered really separate okay

15:37

, and I think in our prep uh conversation

15:39

you you also mentioned that some of the things

15:41

that you're now creating , I mean they're so

15:43

novel that you're , in a way , influencing

15:46

European law . How does it make you feel

15:48

, because you're you're pushing things forward

15:50

?

15:51

Yeah , so the amount of times that we have

15:53

to take a whiteboard and start

15:55

scratching , uh like starts uh

15:57

, sketching things from scratch , is it's . It

15:59

happens all the time . And so

16:01

, for example , because of our custody structure

16:04

, which we explained early on , um

16:06

like reporting works

16:08

differently , you know , identifying

16:10

the counterparty , because for us the client

16:12

, for example , is always the counterparty . It's

16:14

never block rise , because block rise is just

16:17

sort of intermediary yeah and

16:19

in regulation wise , this just

16:21

just doesn't work . And also with our new license

16:23

uh parties that we work with

16:25

, everything needs to be done again

16:28

from scratch , because our structure

16:30

just works different interesting .

16:32

So normally they would have an intermediary that

16:34

they can talk to and that they can build

16:36

well uh legal uh

16:39

structures around . But now , since you're doing it direct

16:41

, it's a different situation yeah , it's

16:43

, uh , it's .

16:44

The client in the end has to sign for the transaction

16:46

yeah and they sign for transactions to

16:48

block rise , and then block rise forwards

16:50

it again or whatever has to happen , where

16:53

usually the client is on

16:55

the , the service providers

16:58

platform and it's only a database action

17:00

. Okay , but it's

17:02

quite a legal challenge and

17:04

I'm confident we will solve it . But it just , and

17:07

also , as you're growing , you know we

17:09

need to make changes to an existing system . but we

17:11

are kind of a small player compared to the other

17:13

ones with a lot of effort , so we

17:16

really rely on the support of our

17:18

pitch and our idea , our vision on the support

17:20

of our pitch and our idea , our vision on the market , which is also the very much the

17:22

upside the moment that we start working with these

17:24

huge enterprises that already exist for

17:26

a long time , because they support our vision

17:28

yeah that's just very very nice

17:31

, cool , um .

17:33

So we talked a little bit , a little bit about , uh well

17:35

, obviously , trying to understand what you're doing

17:37

. I think some people either go like I kind of know

17:39

half what it is , but stay with us , stay with

17:41

us , but let's switch to company

17:43

building and also company scaling . I

17:46

think you touched on a few things already , but

17:49

if you think back over the past year since

17:51

2017 , as a CEO , what

17:53

has been your biggest challenge

17:56

in building and scaling ? Blockrise .

18:00

Yeah , I always said that , for

18:02

example , finding the team will

18:04

be a challenge , but I think we're very

18:06

fortunate with the team we have . We have a bunch

18:08

of great guys all together . You met them last

18:10

week .

18:10

Yes .

18:12

And it's really , really cool to have

18:14

all these guys together and I do

18:16

admire them in many ways . So that's

18:18

not the main challenge . I think

18:20

funding , like

18:23

especially external funding , is one of the

18:25

major challenges . We haven't

18:27

. We haven't done it so far . We always

18:29

relied on friends and family and

18:32

, of course , my own and the team's

18:34

investments , but it

18:36

is this sort of seal of approval you

18:38

know that an external party also

18:40

understands and believes in what you're

18:42

doing and we haven't . So

18:45

, uh , that , of course , limited growth . That

18:47

also limited , like the

18:49

abilities that we , that we

18:51

had so far .

18:52

Yeah .

18:53

Um , whereas we need to make a balance between

18:55

we want to pioneer and innovate versus

18:57

we want to sell our product

18:59

.

18:59

Yeah .

18:59

And we always had this first priority

19:02

of pioneering and innovating and building a

19:04

super rigid product , because there is no room for

19:06

mistakes but in the end , investors

19:08

of course want to see the numbers as well . So making

19:10

up this balance is quite a quite a challenge

19:12

, uh , and you just need to find the right

19:15

people that uh support it .

19:16

Yeah because it's a complex space and and

19:18

I think even many VCs would not

19:20

fully grasp what you're doing . In a way , it

19:23

was interesting . You mentioned the session last week , so

19:25

you invited me to a meetup

19:27

, which I think was remarkable because

19:29

I had no idea what I signed up for . But

19:31

in the room there were some

19:33

really prominent asset owners and leaders

19:35

in the space and

19:44

I also realized , while some are really well educated in this bubble , there's

19:46

also still a lot of people who really have no clue and are getting started . So I'm guessing

19:48

you'd always find that potentially also with the

19:50

investors right ?

19:51

some , yeah , completely understand what you're

19:53

doing and some you still have to explain what

19:55

a satoshi is exactly , well , literally

19:58

, as of last week , yeah , and that that is

20:00

the space , and this uh translates into

20:02

everything that's more on the traditional side

20:04

so of course investors , but also

20:06

tax authority you know like uh

20:09

, what is the vat that counts for our services

20:11

? uh , the banks you know

20:13

I would love to become a bank . It might become

20:16

, uh real

20:18

in in a couple years , uh , but until

20:20

then we need to rely on banks . And

20:22

this is so volatile , like working

20:24

together and man , that

20:27

really is a challenge on its own

20:29

.

20:29

We might have some people from the tax regulators listening

20:31

, so what would you want to say to them ?

20:33

I mean open up the conversation . Like

20:35

the letters take a long time to process

20:37

, I know , but you're welcome anytime at our office

20:39

and actually understand what we do

20:42

. Yeah , we're so happy to like to collaborate

20:44

yeah we've always mentioned this . We do this with

20:46

the banks through , like the unions and , uh

20:49

, with the supervisors . Well , right opening up

20:51

the conversation is everything .

20:52

Sit down together and and and get started

20:54

yeah , yeah , because as soon as you mentioned crypto

20:57

in your business somewhere , then

20:59

all the banks close their doors .

21:00

Right , exactly , and I think over the last

21:03

seven years a lot has changed like the fact

21:05

that I'm sitting here now , like the fact that we went

21:07

under the radar for such a long time , is

21:09

also because of that . But I really do feel like

21:11

it's changing , especially this year . Introduction

21:13

of bitcoin etfs in uh in america

21:16

. Yeah , you know , these conversations

21:18

are now possible . The fact that I can apply

21:20

for startup incubators , which is seven years

21:22

too late , but I can have this

21:24

conversation now . And there is a genuine interest

21:27

which is yeah , it's changing everything

21:29

.

21:29

Yeah , and the important thing is you've built traction so

21:32

far , so that also sets you , I think

21:34

, apart from others who want to compete in this space

21:36

. Before we go to the break

21:38

, how do you see BlockRrise

21:41

positioning itself over the next five to 10

21:43

years ? What's the outlook ?

21:45

I mean , if I can really dream big , then

21:47

I would say Blockrise as a private bank

21:49

you know Bitcoin at its

21:51

core as a financial asset

21:53

, but supporting all the financial infrastructures

21:56

around it from payments

21:59

you know that would need would be needed

22:01

and , of course , offer this as a

22:03

software to all the other parties

22:06

existing .

22:06

but personally , I would like to stay on the on

22:08

the private banking side cool , and

22:10

then you would need a lot of people , I think , also to support that

22:12

mission . Are you hiring currently ?

22:14

we are hiring . Uh , we need to

22:16

expand uh further also with the license

22:19

. Uh , we need a lot more

22:21

people . But we

22:23

are self-funded , so we do it at our own pace

22:25

. We first want to grow a little bit , and then

22:27

we hire a little bit , and

22:29

maybe we do need some external

22:31

funding at some point .

22:33

Okay , so next time we speak perhaps

22:35

there'll be an update there .

22:37

For sure .

22:37

This has been amazing so far . Let's go to

22:39

a quick break and then we'll be back .

22:47

You're listening to the podcast of up rotterdam . We help startups scale and grow their business

22:49

by offering access to talent , access to international markets and access to capital

22:51

. Curious how we can make

22:53

the network work for you ? Go to uprotterdamcom

22:56

. This podcast was made possible

22:59

by the city of Rotterdam .

23:08

Welcome back . This is our conversation with Jos , and in the break I was thinking we're getting

23:10

so technical really quick , jos . But I've obviously also

23:12

been really interested in this space and , to

23:15

be very honest , my first . So when you told

23:17

the story about what you bought for your first Bitcoin , I

23:19

lost my first wallet and to the day , I

23:22

still regret that , Because it was also

23:24

really , really , really in the early days . So

23:28

somewhere in those 21 million coins

23:31

there's one or two that

23:33

belong to me . You

23:35

, sure you ? don't . Actually , it was actually more Now

23:37

thinking back because it was really in the . I

23:40

should forget about this .

23:41

If you have any traces , please come by the office sometime

23:43

and we might be able to . Yeah , support , okay

23:45

.

23:46

Okay , let's go okay , my

23:48

wife's listening . It's like a holiday . Um

23:50

, anyways it's . I think it's great to

23:52

talk about this space . Um , I

23:56

also realize that if you're now listening and you have no idea

23:58

yet , uh , it's complicated . So what would be

24:00

a resource to dive into ? If you want to really

24:02

educate yourself a little bit more in the space , what would

24:04

be the good places to search ? Are there any

24:06

books , podcasts , videos ?

24:08

yeah , there's a , there's a , there's a whole bunch . So

24:10

, on blockerscom , we have some education

24:12

, but it would definitely deserve

24:16

some more , uh , more love . Um , there

24:18

is a bitcoin for millennials from , uh , bram

24:20

konstein , which I really like . Uh , he's really upcoming

24:23

now , um , and really explaining

24:25

core subjects . Yeah , there's a

24:28

bitcoin for beginners . There's , uh

24:30

, the bitcoin standard .

24:31

Like there's more literature based okay um

24:34

, yeah , there's a lot

24:36

of resources available cool , okay , so we're going to make

24:38

sure that these resources are in the um

24:40

, in the notes , in the episode notes , so people

24:42

can click on them and educate

24:44

themselves a little bit more about this

24:46

space . Um

24:48

, in intro I talked a little

24:50

bit about you play golf and that you like to fly

24:53

, drive and sail . What's your favorite mode of transport

24:55

?

24:56

uh , today motorbike for

24:58

sure motorbike .

24:59

You have your own yeah , I'm a d ?

25:01

uh Ducati monster at 1200 . There you go

25:03

, there you go .

25:04

Um , I'm wearing my flip flops today because I'm also

25:06

my motorbike , although it's a rental , I must say . We

25:09

have a chopper at home and I got an empty

25:11

oh seven , I think for the weekend . Um

25:13

, it's a dangerous hobby , but uh

25:16

yeah go fast .

25:17

Yeah , go fast . Yeah , we need the adrenaline . Yeah , yeah , that's it , that's

25:19

it ?

25:20

Do you use it to go to work or just on the weekend

25:22

?

25:22

Yeah , it's actually a company vehicle of my personal

25:25

holding . So , yes , I use it to go to work . Love it

25:27

, love it .

25:27

Ducati Monster is a company vehicle .

25:29

It's my third one actually .

25:30

Really , what happened to the first ?

25:33

Bought the first in 2017 .

25:41

You , uh , I bought the motorbike and then I traded it in for 1200 . That got stolen

25:43

after one year and then I bought the new 1200 . Oh yeah , they're fast , man . Yeah , the

25:45

thing is , I can't drive them slow . So when we I had

25:48

a I don't know what it was a couple years ago

25:50

monster , but it was , it wouldn't go slow .

25:52

I was going with my wife and she would do like

25:54

60 kilometers per hour felt

25:56

uncomfortable you need to go faster , especially if you

25:58

come from an empty uh zero seven , like right

26:00

now , like you drive 60 in the second

26:03

gear , which is like a lot of people cannot comprehend

26:05

this , this gearing system and and the low

26:07

torque it has . Yes , it's a , it's a

26:09

character on itself , yeah I love it .

26:11

I love it , ducati . That's

26:13

what we say in dutch , though . Um , what

26:16

put the uh ? Google translate on that one ? Um

26:18

, okay , so before

26:20

we go to listeners' questions , one thing I wanted to check with you . At

26:23

last week's meetup , we had many people

26:25

talking about Bitcoin and the future , et cetera , and

26:28

you already mentioned that ETF . So what's

26:30

your stance on Bitcoin ETFs and what

26:32

role does that play for the space ?

26:35

So , as a very brief introduction , etf is

26:37

an exchange-traded fund , I assume most people

26:39

know , and the Bitcoin ETF was introduced

26:41

11 January this year in America .

26:43

Yeah .

26:44

Basically allowing traditional

26:46

institutions or investors to

26:48

have Bitcoin

26:50

sort of on their portfolio

26:53

.

26:53

Right . Yeah , it's sort of right , Sort of .

26:55

It's a fund containing one-on-one Bitcoin

26:58

.

26:58

Yeah .

26:58

However . So I'm very happy with it from

27:00

a market acceptance perspective , yeah , um

27:03

, because it it really uh , opened

27:05

up a lot of new conversations and it added this

27:07

, this seal of approval . However

27:09

, from a more infrastructure perspective

27:11

, the clients that are using the bitcoin etf

27:14

cannot verify their own funds . And

27:16

they can with some parties

27:19

. They can validate the total

27:21

fund so that there is indeed the amount of

27:23

Bitcoins purchased as they

27:25

state , but the clients cannot verify themselves

27:28

. Right , and that is exactly what we stand for

27:30

, and it's my same . Issue with

27:32

the exchanges is that it's either

27:34

tradable or it's verifiable , and

27:37

it's never the same , and that

27:39

is , yeah , that is my main concern . Yeah

27:41

, but for , not for the time being . I think it

27:43

allows for easier adoption

27:45

, you know , but we should , uh

27:47

, as a , as a market , we should develop these etfs

27:50

into a product where bitcoin uh

27:52

etfs are , um , like

27:55

redrawable into your own account yeah so

27:57

you should be able to take it out of the etf

27:59

uh into your own storage

28:01

solution , whatever it may be , which is , I

28:04

know , legally impossible

28:06

under the etf construction . But who

28:08

knows what the future holds ?

28:10

so is it comparable to when we hold physical gold

28:12

, for instance , compared to holding

28:14

, you know , some part of gold

28:16

?

28:16

through uh intermediary party yeah , it's

28:19

like a paper gold , like you . Have the

28:21

three solutions yeah paper gold like only uh

28:23

through a platform , and then there's a gold

28:25

that you store with someone else in a in a

28:27

safe like a company that provides

28:30

it , or you have the gold in your own hand yeah and

28:32

because bitcoin is digital , it has a little bit

28:34

more overlap , but it's possible it's feasible , we've proven

28:37

it . Many parties have proven it . Um

28:39

, so yeah , of course , ease of trading is

28:41

something that is always considered , but there

28:43

should be better solutions .

28:44

Yeah , okay well and you're building those . Wow

28:47

, what a what a coincidence . Um , we'll go to listeners

28:49

questions . Uh , we do this every episode

28:51

, so please follow the linkedin channel for

28:53

the next guest and send us your questions

28:55

and we might ask them here . The

28:57

first question is from a gentleman very

28:59

close to you , because I met him at Slushed

29:02

in Enschede two

29:04

weeks ago , I think . So I asked him what is

29:06

the question I should ask ? And Jasper , jasper

29:08

who said what

29:11

do you believe is the biggest barrier

29:13

to institutional adoption of Bitcoin

29:15

and how do you see the industry overcoming

29:17

it .

29:19

Well , actually , what we touched , based on earlier , education

29:22

, I think education is . You know , in the end

29:24

, institutions are a bunch of people combined

29:26

uh in a , in a framework , a

29:28

company , and if every one of them understood

29:30

how bitcoin really works , I think the

29:33

adoption would go a lot faster . But

29:35

the , the willingness to understand it

29:37

and and proper education being available

29:39

is , I think , the main hurdle , and

29:41

from that I mean , once there's enough demand , we

29:44

wouldn't have to pitch , uh , our solution

29:46

, uh , as we do today

29:48

, you know , with all these complex uh questions

29:51

, but it will be just a no-brainer

29:53

uh . So I think that's that's a

29:55

main hurdle , combined with , of course , the seal

29:57

of approval being regulation .

29:59

Yeah . And then there's people like

30:01

Michael Saylor , the CEO

30:03

of MicroStrategy

30:05

, who obviously took a really big

30:08

bet early on in his company

30:10

, putting Bitcoin on his

30:12

balance sheet , and I think in

30:14

the beginning people thought he was a fool , but I think by

30:16

now it's brought his company to the next level

30:18

, right .

30:19

So do you think he's an example for

30:21

other well

30:24

, either asset managers or sometimes

30:26

corporations that want to move forward

30:28

For sure , like the step to take

30:30

100% again

30:32

, from a perspective of secure storage

30:35

and in custody . I think that it could be improved

30:37

, but it's a massive , massive step

30:40

in the right direction . And he's a prime example

30:42

for a lot of people , uh . So

30:44

, yes , uh , very thankful for that . More

30:46

of those go check him out um .

30:49

Second question is from pascal von

30:51

hecker . Uh , he has a question

30:53

. Actually has a very long question about your uh

30:55

offering and he touched on it a little bit . But , um

30:58

, perhaps you can shine a little bit light on his question

31:00

. He says given that your current offerings

31:02

include self-custody options similar

31:05

to other wallets , the broker service brokerage

31:07

service where competition is intense and

31:10

the asset management service , do

31:12

you see strategic advantage in focusing more

31:14

on asset management , especially considering

31:16

that holding bitcoin ether can now be done with ETFs

31:20

at much lower management fees ?

31:26

Yes , I think management fees

31:28

will balance out over time , especially

31:30

with growth . Same for custody fees . Custody

31:33

fees are being a lot more competitive

31:35

now than before the Bitcoin

31:38

ETFs . One

31:40

quick note is I heard the self-custody , so

31:42

keep in mind that Blockrise is a custodial

31:45

platform where we offer what we

31:47

call semi-custody .

31:48

Semi-custody .

31:49

Yes , which I know is another technical term

31:51

, but it basically means that we

31:53

are able to provide all the custodial

31:56

services . However , we cannot access

31:58

your assets .

31:59

Right . And , yeah , we can get

32:01

very technical on this , but it allows

32:03

for , like , better key management

32:05

, yeah , around this , so the clients

32:08

do not face the technical challenges yeah and that

32:10

is really one of our usps , compared to

32:12

self-custody wallets , where most

32:14

of them are super technical right , yeah , or

32:16

you just have a ledger , I mean , but that's a

32:18

self-custody , yeah so , but then that means you're

32:21

an asset owner and you would have , I don't know , 10

32:23

, 20 , 100 million on a couple of ledgers , laying

32:25

around . Exactly that would be there .

32:27

And you need , in my opinion , like those solutions

32:29

are . It's not like or

32:31

a ledger or a block price . I think they can work

32:34

together very well . And therefore

32:36

you're free to move assets

32:38

between your own storage solution and our solution

32:40

anytime . So that is a

32:42

bit of the USB there Brokerage . It's hugely

32:45

competitive . That's why Blockrise will not be

32:47

a market maker . We just rely

32:49

on all the exchanges and we make the super

32:51

solid , super quick , very low risk

32:54

. That's our main goal Very little exposure

32:56

to no exposure . And

32:58

then asset management yes , it's

33:01

, I think , the field for the next year

33:03

, two years , to be in . There's very few asset

33:05

managers , there's very few uh

33:08

strategies , especially bitcoin focused

33:10

a lot is , you know , uh like decentralized

33:12

finance focus , smart contract focused

33:15

, uh very complex type of trading

33:17

and just bitcoin . Bitcoin

33:20

strategies are not very

33:22

common . So that is , I think , the main space

33:24

to be in and , yes , we will have to get more

33:26

competitive over time . But , on the other hand

33:28

, I am indeed on the golf course and there's people what

33:30

is Bitcoin ? So

33:33

it's competitive , but it's also very much not

33:35

competitive .

33:36

Yeah , yeah , Space is big , it's a

33:38

blue ocean area . I think for many

33:40

of those , oh , space is big , it's a blue ocean area . I think for many of those

33:42

, oh , this is interesting . Amara comes in with a question . She

33:44

says Bitcoin mining has been criticized

33:47

for its high energy consumption . How

33:49

do you see the future of Bitcoin mining

33:51

evolving in response to environmental

33:54

concerns ?

33:55

This is indeed very interesting because under MICAR

33:57

, there's a sustainability requirements

34:00

to be met and every crypto

34:02

company licensed on the micar needs to provide

34:05

all the information on energy use

34:07

and everything in regards of the crypto

34:09

sda support . So this is something we're currently

34:11

working on a lot as well , and all the crypto companies

34:14

again in europe need to provide these reports .

34:16

So but you never know how does it work

34:18

, because you don't know where it's mined .

34:20

Welcome to regulations , so

34:23

you need to find a company that will audit whatever

34:25

you say is true or what we do

34:27

. In the Netherlands , we collaborate with multiple

34:29

companies to provide one report that we

34:31

all support .

34:32

Right Sounds like a more

34:34

efficient approach .

34:40

Yes , exactly . So there's many

34:42

different researches also , like water use , and

34:44

there's all these research published

34:47

. However , they all go every direction

34:49

, so it's very hard to find a good

34:51

direction of what is the actual energy use . My

34:54

view is that , in my opinion , it's still

34:56

a lot more efficient than any

34:58

other field system that we see

35:00

there's no intermediaries , not all

35:03

the financial institutions , uh

35:05

, working around it , all the ATMs , whatever

35:07

. It's a full digital system . It's peer-to-peer

35:09

. Two people can interact and , yes

35:11

, mining is energy intensive , but it

35:13

also defines the scarcity

35:16

of of Bitcoin yeah like if we would remove

35:18

the whole mining factor , which is something that

35:20

the Ethereum did , for example . Uh

35:22

, we move uh away from the

35:24

system that connects the digital system with the

35:26

physical system and the mining we see as

35:28

a physical input . Energy , electricity

35:31

is a sort of physical input and that links

35:33

these two uh worlds in

35:35

my opinion . Uh , so there's

35:38

, there's that and

35:43

keep so , there's that . And keep in mind that there's super cool projects and a lot of it is happening already where there's

35:45

renewable mining sorry , renewable energy for

35:47

Bitcoin mining as well as

35:49

excess energy , which is a big problem here in the Netherlands

35:51

, where greenhouses produce a lot

35:53

of excess energy and they cannot deliver

35:55

this back into the grid , so they're

35:58

forced to either pay very high

36:00

fines , or they put down a Bitcoin miner and

36:02

use the excess energy to do this mining

36:04

activity , and they use Bitcoin as

36:06

a sort of store of value .

36:10

So the excess energy that they create then

36:12

goes into mining , which then has value

36:14

, and it's probably better than

36:16

paying the net behavior . Exactly

36:19

, and this is it .

36:21

The incentive is there . There's a lot of technological

36:24

advancements happening right now , so

36:26

it's not really a concern . And

36:28

if it's a concern now , then I'm very convinced

36:31

it will be sorted in the near future .

36:33

Yeah , and the interesting thing is that people that are pushing the narrative

36:35

around the energy use obviously also drive a

36:37

different agenda every now and then , so

36:39

I mean if you look at any industry , uh , and

36:41

then the energy you create , okay , but anyway . So

36:44

the giving back is an interesting story

36:46

, so we'll keep track on what's happening there

36:48

. Uh , thanks , amara , for this question . Good

36:50

question , okay , next . Okay , next one I cheated

36:52

because I listened to

36:54

and I think I mentioned this to you one

36:57

of my favorite podcast hosts is

36:59

Lex Fridman . If you've

37:01

never listened to any of his podcast episodes

37:03

, I would highly recommend go check him out . He

37:06

interviewed Michael Saylor , the guy we just talked

37:08

about from MicroStrategy , I

37:10

think two years ago , and really deep

37:12

dive with him for our long episode

37:14

on Bitcoin why

37:16

it's important , why this challenges

37:18

everything we understand from economy . He

37:21

also called economists , linear

37:23

thinkers , outdated

37:25

linear thinkers , and he compared it to engineers

37:27

how they take a more system

37:29

approach . Anyway , go check out the episode . So

37:32

I asked JetGPT what question

37:34

would Michael Saylor ask ? And I said keep it a short

37:36

one . So his question

37:38

is do you think Bitcoin's

37:40

deflationary nature is a

37:43

strength or a weakness in

37:45

terms of promoting a healthy , sustainable

37:47

economy ?

37:49

Oh yeah , you get very technical

37:52

there . I think the

37:55

deflationary aspect is what

37:57

makes Bitcoin as is , and

38:00

that will be driving Bitcoin

38:02

forward as it is . Yeah

38:04

.

38:05

So his story is also about how

38:07

we are educated in our

38:09

society , with 2% annual inflation

38:11

rate , consumer price index-based

38:14

, but he makes a point that we're actually

38:16

looking at over 7%

38:18

inflation rate over 100 years . So

38:20

basically , we're being , in his words

38:22

, being fooled by the world

38:24

around us , and inflation is much higher than we think

38:26

because we keep printing money in a way

38:28

, and that's where Bitcoin obviously because

38:31

there's a finite amount

38:33

of bitcoins that can be mined predefined

38:35

even that's predefined 21 million um

38:38

, but also , the deflationary aspect is completely

38:40

predefined and yeah , for people who don't

38:42

know , maybe uh , it's set in

38:44

code and it it cannot

38:46

change it correct change and that is it

38:48

.

38:48

There is no monetary policy other than the

38:50

predefined policy yeah um

38:52

, and yeah , I mean , if we look at the last three

38:54

years alone , I think we've seen a lot more inflation

38:57

than 2% or 7% . And

39:00

yeah , in general I try to be very neutral

39:02

about this .

39:03

Again .

39:03

I pitch for 1% , and what I

39:05

believe you know and what BlockRise

39:08

offers should be a little bit separated

39:11

to a certain extent . Like

39:13

it's a volatile asset , it's a high risk asset

39:15

yeah but yes , I , I agree and uh

39:18

, therefore it just strengthens my page

39:20

that bitcoin should be a asset

39:22

. Right to consider you know , and it's not

39:24

about 100 of your net worth

39:26

or zero , but it should be a asset

39:28

. And how comfortable you are there yes uh

39:31

, deflationary aspect is one of the most

39:33

uh yeah , powerful aspects in

39:35

my life cool .

39:37

Okay , anyway , go check out this episode if you're interested

39:40

. Um final question uh

39:42

, is from michelle terlac . Uh , you know

39:44

her , I think she's with artist capital . Uh

39:46

, she has an interesting question about your organization

39:48

. She says how will you retain

39:50

your culture when you grow ?

39:53

Oof . Yeah , that's definitely

39:55

one of the challenging ones , I would say . I

39:59

think , like what we do now is I'm

40:02

currently reading the no Rules , Rules

40:04

book .

40:05

The no Rules Rules .

40:06

Yeah , by the Netflix founder , which

40:09

he writes a lot

40:11

about the culture , sustainability

40:13

. I think open communication

40:15

, like , if you look at our team right

40:17

now , like everybody carries a lot of

40:19

responsibility and I

40:21

really would like to keep it that way

40:24

. You know , there's no like one ruler that

40:26

defines everything Strategy-wise

40:29

, visionary-wise , for sure , but especially

40:31

on their specialization part . I will

40:33

do it , and that is what we

40:35

, what we aim for , and I really want to maintain

40:38

that and hire the people that fit

40:40

into this culture yeah um

40:42

, and yeah , that's what we've

40:44

been hiring for , and I hope

40:46

that we can maintain the culture in in such

40:48

a way , because it would be really freaking

40:51

amazing , like it would be so cool

40:53

, if we keep extending the theme

40:55

with the , with the same uh vision

40:57

as it is built on now , but

40:59

now you sit on one floor .

41:00

I've been in your office on the black great office

41:02

. Everybody sees each other sits together . Uh

41:04

, who knows , you might need to open up a shop

41:07

or actually an office in another city . How

41:10

would you deal with that ?

41:12

um , yeah , I mean , uh , it's

41:14

, it's the typical scaling issues . Uh , I

41:16

think uh the , the managing management

41:19

team , or the managers , are very important

41:21

to to keep the communication smooth and

41:23

rolling and you know , uh very

41:25

short uh check-ins on on

41:27

on what's the company strategy , where are we moving

41:30

, what are we seeing in the market , and make sure

41:32

that there's alignment across the whole team . Yeah

41:34

, I think that like , for example

41:36

, the communication through protocols , like slack

41:38

, it allows for super short

41:41

uh communication . We're fully relying

41:43

on notion , for example , for all internal

41:45

communication so everybody can read

41:47

what is going on . There's very uh

41:49

there's a lot of transparency within the company

41:52

and that should just keep driving the

41:54

company forward .

41:55

Cool yeah .

41:56

Combined with good communication . Frequent

41:59

check-ins , yeah , yeah

42:01

.

42:01

So Notion and Slack obviously are the

42:03

basics . It reminds me of an episode we did

42:06

earlier with Hans Scheffer , who's the founder of HelloPrint

42:08

. He has a big office here in Rotterdam , but

42:10

also has people in Valencia , and

42:12

I think he shows that through culture and

42:15

a shared culture you can actually make it work . So

42:17

go check out that episode if you're interested in

42:19

this topic . Those were

42:21

the listeners' questions . Actually , I had more , but we're running

42:23

out of time and

42:26

I think these questions , although some were a bit technical

42:28

, even gave us a bit more insight in

42:30

what you're doing . Yeah , it's been . I

42:33

think I can talk with you for hours , but we'll

42:35

have to stop . So

42:39

for me it was really interesting to dive into the story of what it is that you're

42:42

doing , but also why it's important . And

42:44

then , as you're growing the company and

42:46

are now getting more out in the open , so we'll probably

42:48

see much more from you . So thanks , Jos . Thanks for sharing your story . We'll

42:50

see much more from you . So thanks , Jos , Thanks for

42:52

sharing your story . All the links will be in the show

42:55

notes , but we have one important

42:57

part still to go , which is

42:59

the song that you have selected . Could you explain

43:01

which song that is and why ?

43:03

Yeah , so I selected the Curbside

43:05

Prophet from Jason Mraz and it's just a

43:07

little bit of an ironic song , I

43:09

think . Waiting for my rocket ship to

43:11

come , which

43:13

is the album name as well uh , rockets , crypto , you know , um

43:16

, but also being on the side of the street , uh

43:19

, you know , and calling out your services

43:21

, but nobody is really buying it , uh

43:23

, or understanding what you're working on . So there's

43:25

a lot of uh irony in the song . But

43:28

and and whenever , like I'm I'm not depressed , or ever

43:30

, uh , but it just and whenever , like I'm not depressed or ever

43:32

, but it just automatically

43:34

just hypes you up . It

43:37

always gives such a good vibe that I always love listening to

43:39

the song .

43:40

Makes you feel that you're not alone . Somebody else's challenge

43:43

as well . Cool , great choice . So we'll

43:45

close out with that . Thank you for listening to the Start

43:47

to Scale podcast . If you enjoyed this episode , don't

43:49

forget to leave a rating or share it with somebody

43:51

else . It's

43:57

the best way to

43:59

help us make

44:02

more content until

44:05

next time .

44:06

Keep it up . I'm just a curbside prophet

44:08

with my hand in my pocket and I'm waiting for

44:10

my rocket to go . I'm just a curbside prophet with my hand in my pocket

44:12

and I'm waiting for my rocket to go . I'm just a curbside prophet with my hand in my pocket

44:14

and I'm waiting for my rocket y'all . You

44:28

see , it started way back in NYC

44:30

when I stole my first rhyme from

44:32

the MIC At a West End

44:34

Avenue at 63 . It's the beginning

44:37

of a leap year . February 96

44:39

, when a guitar picked her up in the mix

44:41

, I committed to the licks like a nickel

44:44

bag of tricks . So well , look at me now

44:46

, look at me now . Look at

44:48

me now , now , now , now . I'm

44:50

just a curbside droppin' with my hand

44:52

in my pocket and I'm waitin' for my rocket to come . I'm

44:54

just a curbside droppin' with my hand in my pocket and I'm waitin' for my rocket to come . I'm just a curbside

44:56

droppin' with my hand in my pocket and I'm waitin'

44:58

for my rocket y'all . But

45:11

then you never , never , never guess what I bet and bet

45:13

and bet , and I have no regrets that . I

45:15

bet my whole checking account , because

45:17

it all amounts to nothing up in the

45:19

end . Well , you can only count

45:22

that on the road again , we'll soon be on my radio

45:24

dial and I'll be paying close attention to

45:26

the will and else and style Like a band

45:28

of gypsies on the highway While , as I'm

45:30

a one man wishing on the California

45:32

skyline Drive up the coast , I brag

45:35

and I boast Because I'm picking up a pace . I

45:37

make a tide like Space Ghost , raising

45:39

a toast to the highway patrol with

45:41

the most but my cruise control's on

45:43

coast Cause I'm touring around the nation on

45:45

extended vacation . See , I got Elsa the dog

45:47

who exceeds my limitation . I say I

45:50

like your style . Crazy pound pup , you

45:52

need a ride . Well , come , come on , girl , hop in

45:54

the truck With the curbside traffic

45:56

with my hand in my pocket and I'm waiting for

45:58

my rocket to come up . I'm just

46:00

a curbside traffic with my hand in my

46:02

pocket and I'm waiting for my rocket . Y'all

46:04

. I'm just a curbside traffic

46:06

with my hand in my pocket and I'm waiting for

46:08

my rocket to come on . I'm just

46:11

a curbside floppy with my head in my pocket

46:13

and I'm waiting for my rocket . Yo See

46:16

, I'm a down-home brother Redneck undercover

46:18

With my guitar here , I'm ready to play

46:21

and I'm a sucker for Philly Got

46:23

a natural ability Gear to freestyle

46:25

. Look at my flexibility Dingers

46:27

on the mic . My ghetto hat's cocks right . All

46:30

the ladies say Yo , that kid is crazy

46:32

. We got the backstage betties Taking more

46:34

than they can get . They say what's up

46:36

with MRAB ? Hey

46:38

, hey , hey , hey , hey , something's

46:41

different in my world today . Well , they changed

46:44

my traffic signs To

46:46

a bright yellow . Hey

46:49

, hey , hey , hey , something's

46:52

different in my world today . Well , they changed

46:55

my traffic sign to

46:57

a brighter yellow . I'm

46:59

just a curbside prophet

47:01

. Love A curbside

47:03

brother , love A

47:05

curbside brother . Love A

47:07

curbside . Oh , come on

47:09

, I'm just a curbside prophet

47:11

and I'm waiting for it . I've hatter Waiting for

47:14

a rocker , still waiting for a rocker To

47:16

come down . Curbside , come down , brother

47:18

, you're

47:21

a curbside hatter

47:25

.