0:00

Welcome to a very special edition

0:02

of Start to Scale in collaboration

0:04

with Philips Innovation Award , the largest

0:07

student startup competition in the Netherlands

0:09

. In this episode , I speak

0:11

with Beren de Klerk , co-founder

0:13

of Plants Technologies and winner

0:16

of the Rough Diamond Award at the Philips

0:18

Innovation Award 2023 . And

0:20

you'll learn all about measuring the

0:22

inner working of plants , the

0:24

importance of tough love from critical

0:26

advisors and how to make the most of

0:28

a competition like FIA . My

0:30

name is Lars Kramer and I'm thrilled to introduce

0:33

Berend to you . Berend is on a

0:35

mission to revolutionize the agriculture

0:37

industry . With a master in high-tech

0:39

engineering and a master in management

0:42

of technology . He founded Plants

0:44

Technologies together with Thijs Bieling

0:46

, and they use a patented

0:48

technology with smart sensing

0:50

devices that literally listen

0:53

to plants you heard that right

0:55

and they turn that data into

0:57

information for growers to work

1:00

on . Welcome , berend , great to have you here . Thank

1:02

you for having me . So now for the older

1:04

people listening to this podcast , they might

1:06

remember an old man called Robert Redford . He

1:09

played the horse whisperer , with

1:11

a remarkable gift for understanding horses . So

1:13

are you the new Robert Redford ? But then for

1:16

plants ? In short , are you the plant whisperer

1:18

?

1:18

We've been known to be called the plant

1:20

whisperers indeed , Okay see but

1:23

that sounds a little bit vague .

1:24

It's more scientific than that okay , yeah

1:26

, you can call me whatever you like okay , cool

1:28

, so we'll get into the details of that . Um , I'm

1:30

really excited to have you here . We spoke , uh

1:33

, when you were pitching at the last event

1:35

. Um , last year , 2023

1:37

. Yes , great to have you here , also to dive

1:40

into your journey since , because your

1:42

company has been developing and growing . So

1:44

we're gonna dive right in . But we start

1:46

with four statements that you can answer with true or

1:48

false . All right , are you ready ? Yes , we

1:52

are primarily a hardware company . False

1:56

two years

1:58

of entrepreneurship taught me more

2:00

than seven years in uni uh

2:03

, true yeah we

2:06

are a solution in search of

2:08

a problem to solve false

2:11

, I must admit , the

2:13

plans in my student dorm didn't make

2:15

it uh wait , can we

2:17

go two questions back , because I think

2:20

I understood in the wrong way .

2:21

Two years of entrepreneurship ? No , the problem

2:24

searching for a solution right away around .

2:26

Yeah , so we go back . We are

2:28

a solution in search of

2:30

a problem to solve .

2:32

Very true .

2:33

True , there we go . The final

2:35

one . I must admit , the plants

2:37

in my student dorm didn't make it . Some

2:41

made it Okay , so

2:43

you've been killing plants in your dorm . We'll get to that you

2:45

are . Some made it okay , so you've been killing plants . You don't forget . Today you are building a

2:47

remarkable company . Um , you provide crop growers in greenhouses

2:49

with smart sensing devices to basically

2:52

help them grow the plants . Uh , that sounds super

2:54

sophisticated and important . Maybe

2:56

take us back to your origin story

2:59

. Um , can you take us back to the

3:01

inspiration behind plans and and how do

3:03

you get started on working on this idea ?

3:05

Yeah , of course . So we're

3:07

a spin-off from university . So there

3:09

was a collaboration between Wageningen University

3:12

and Research and Delft University of Technology

3:14

, and I got involved

3:16

during my master's thesis . I helped with the development

3:19

of the technology and then at one

3:21

point I got a call from my professor and

3:23

he asked do

3:26

you want to bring this to market in the form of a startup company

3:28

? Together with Thijs , and this ?

3:30

was it that the technology ? Or was that

3:32

what ? Was the what was that ?

3:33

this part yeah , the technology , the

3:35

patents that they had , but it was still a little bit

3:37

fake what it what it exactly was , but something

3:39

about listening to plants , okay

3:42

, and together with Thijs , and I met thais , uh

3:44

, once before . So we got together

3:46

, we grabbed coffee and we're like , okay , what

3:48

the hell , what are we gonna do ? So

3:51

we enrolled for a course course uh

3:53

called uh , ready to startup

3:56

, uh , which is formed by , yes , delf

3:58

students , which teaches you all

4:00

about entrepreneurship , and we got so

4:02

excited that , uh , we finished

4:04

our masters and we said , yeah , let's , let's go

4:06

for it . Uh , we got some small

4:08

funding from the nwo and

4:10

that's basically the the first , yeah

4:13

, first half year of our starting um

4:15

, yeah , where we got excited about entrepreneurship

4:17

, but we still didn't know what we were going to do okay

4:20

, it was the early days but , then , going back to

4:22

the plans in your dorm room , what happened to ?

4:24

Were they part of the process ? Yeah , they were part of the process

4:26

.

4:26

It was actually the stage before this . Even so

4:29

, I had some plants at home during Corona because

4:31

, yeah , it was a lot in my room and I like

4:33

nature , so I bought a lot of plants but

4:36

, yeah , some of them died and I

4:38

just didn't know , do they need more irrigation

4:40

, do

4:45

do they need less irrigation ? Like this can be more convenient . So again , it was corona , so I also had

4:47

a lot of free time , so I sort of made my own irrigation system with soil

4:50

sensors and arduino and

4:53

that sort of sparked my interest into

4:55

plants and how this could be done

4:57

. And then I stumbled upon a research project

4:59

for my master thesis that had

5:01

all the courses I liked , so signal analysis

5:04

and data analysis , but it was also

5:06

, yeah , on plants , and

5:08

I was like , yeah , that's a bit fake

5:10

, but let's give it a go . So

5:13

that's actually indeed where it actually

5:15

started .

5:16

Super interesting to make the connection between

5:18

nature and what happens in nature , and then

5:20

all these sophisticated advanced

5:23

analytics and understanding . We'll get into

5:25

the details on how that works . But

5:27

I think , as we all learn and probably

5:29

also people competing in the Philips

5:31

Innovation Award learn that you have to start with a customer

5:33

first , right ? So understanding what is the problem

5:36

of the customer . So

5:39

your primary customers are growers

5:41

, right , so can you maybe paint a picture

5:43

what is your ideal customer and what is their problem ? So , indeed , our customers are growers

5:45

, right ? So can you maybe paint a picture what is your ideal customer and what is their problem ?

5:47

So , indeed , our customers are growers

5:49

. Well , we actually have three types of customers , but

5:52

let's today dive into the growers and

5:54

what they do . They go into the greenhouse and

5:57

they take a look around and with their

5:59

expertise , they just know how

6:01

to steer the greenhouse right . They look into the color

6:03

of the plant , the thickness of the leaf

6:05

, like the . They take

6:07

all kinds of measurements that they are that

6:10

are mainly subjective and they

6:12

have a hard time also explaining what , what they , what

6:14

it is they look for . But they've become

6:17

very , very good at growing our

6:19

crops , but there's

6:21

also a scarcity of these growers . So

6:24

our goal is really to help growers

6:26

scale , so by

6:28

collecting data about the plants , basically

6:31

let the plants run

6:33

the greenhouse so that the grower also

6:35

has time for different stuff . But

6:39

yeah , that's our end goal and that's not the

6:41

real issue right now . The grower doesn't

6:43

have an issue that he's becoming

6:45

scarce . So we've looked into

6:48

the real issues that they're facing today , and

6:50

that's more about the rising energy prices

6:52

. So how can we save energy

6:55

while still producing our crops ? Because

6:57

if you put too few or too less

6:59

energy into your greenhouse , then your

7:01

crop is going to go bad . It's going to have quality

7:04

issues . So they really want to grow on

7:06

the edge , if you will , and

7:08

we want to help them find this edge nice

7:10

.

7:11

So , um , and then you're saying so . How did

7:13

you approach that ? How did you just go to

7:15

those growers and say , hey , hi , I'm a

7:17

startup , I want to have you know insight

7:19

in what you ? How did you approach that ?

7:21

yeah so . So when we just finished

7:23

our masters and we said , okay , let's go

7:25

for this , we had two coaches , alex

7:27

and Erik , and

7:30

they wanted to help us in mentoring . And we

7:32

came to them and

7:34

we said , oh , we're going to do all this great

7:37

scientific stuff and with ultrasound

7:39

and we're going to measure crops . And they say

7:41

, stop whatever you're doing and

7:43

get yourselves a real job . And

7:46

we were like very surprised , like what the hell ? I thought we were going to build

7:48

a startup company and develop the product

7:50

and then no , no , you're gonna get yourself

7:52

a job at a greenhouse facility because

7:55

you don't know anything about your customer . Um

7:57

, they said , shovel dirt , I

8:00

don't care , but get yourself a job into a greenhouse

8:02

company . So that that's what we did . We put a message

8:04

on LinkedIn , got a lot of views and

8:07

then a few weeks later , we were basically

8:09

planting seeds inside a greenhouse company , just

8:11

to learn about the problems that our

8:13

customers face it was very good

8:15

advice from our mentors .

8:17

Great advice and a great hack . So did

8:19

you get paid for the job as well ? No

8:21

, we didn't .

8:22

So that's a recommendation from my from my older

8:24

self or my younger self . Uh

8:26

did get paid because we actually also solved

8:28

a problem within this internship of two weeks

8:30

where we designed also some sort of

8:32

clamping mechanism to rise potted

8:35

plants , uh , but it was sort of

8:37

in return for them helping us out .

8:39

Anyway , in the end they gave you a lot of insights . They

8:41

paid in insights very nice , nice

8:43

. Well then get into your solution

8:45

, because there's people out there now listening like what listening

8:48

to plants , the plant whisperer , what

8:50

is all this weird stuff ? Without getting

8:52

too technical , can you maybe explain

8:54

in general how does your solution

8:56

work ?

8:57

Yeah , so we use ultrasonics

9:00

to measure inside crops . You

9:02

can look at it at the same

9:04

way as we use ultrasound for babies we

9:06

put a probe on your belly and then you can

9:08

see what's going on inside your belly

9:10

and see how the baby develops . And

9:12

we use a similar technique , where we basically

9:15

send ultrasonic waves inside

9:17

crops and as the plant is evaporating

9:20

or getting drought

9:22

, the internal structure changes , so

9:24

there's less water in it or there's more tension

9:27

on the tubes that transport the

9:29

water . And as these internal structure

9:31

changes , the vibration changes as

9:33

well , and that's what we measure . So we

9:35

basically measure the vibration and

9:37

then , with advanced algorithms , we translate

9:40

this into useful information , such

9:42

as how much transpiration is going on .

9:44

Wow , and that's kind of checking

9:46

the stress of the plant or at least responding

9:49

to its environment yeah , and then the growers obviously

9:51

can use that data to optimize the growth in

9:53

the end um . But

9:55

how do you know if what you're measuring

9:57

makes sense at all ? You

10:00

cannot ask a plant how he's doing .

10:01

Yeah , that's a very good question , also because

10:03

what we're doing is very new . We're the

10:05

first in the world to commercially use ultrasound

10:07

to monitor what plants are doing , but

10:10

since this hasn't been done before , you

10:12

also don't know if it works or not , because

10:14

you get some sort of data , but how do you

10:16

know what it actually means if there's no way of monitoring

10:19

? Yeah because if that already would exist

10:21

to validate your measurements , yeah

10:23

then you wouldn't have a reason to live as a company

10:26

yeah because then it would already exist and

10:28

that's sort of , yeah , very a paradoxic

10:30

thing that we're working on . But we now

10:32

use all kinds of different technologies , like heat

10:34

cameras and and sap

10:36

flow meters , to to get some insights

10:39

in what the crop is doing , um , and

10:41

hopefully , and yeah , we'll learn

10:43

more about what plants can tell us getting

10:46

that together .

10:47

We mentioned uh thais in the introduction

10:49

, your co-founder . Um , you're both from

10:51

the technical university , so anybody outside got

10:53

like two techies as a founder in a company

10:55

. Um , how does it work ? Did you

10:57

balance ?

10:59

yeah so . So from day one , we

11:01

made a distinguishment in our roles and

11:04

, since I also have a business background , we

11:07

said , yeah , I'm going to focus on business development

11:09

so that thais can focus on technology development

11:11

, and we made a very clear , distinct distinguishments

11:14

in that . Of course

11:16

, sometimes today

11:18

I help with technology development because we

11:22

have some pilots lined up and we now need to get

11:24

the tech ready . So I'm still

11:26

a little bit flexible , but my responsibilities

11:28

are within business .

11:30

Commerce . Okay , so you do commerce and he does

11:32

technical Cool

11:35

Berend in business , thijs

11:38

in technical stuff . Indeed , there

11:40

we go Before

11:44

we go to Fia , and what you learned , etc . There's one thing I'm also curious about

11:46

, um , are you already in the space where you've

11:48

figured out your business model ? So how do

11:50

you , in the end , um plan

11:52

to uh to get revenues out of your business

11:55

?

11:55

um , we , we have several options , um

11:58

, but , uh , we first want to focus on

12:00

what is it that we can measure and

12:02

for what kind of application ? So , I mentioned , for the Dutch

12:04

growers it's all about saving energy

12:06

. The opposite is true for

12:08

, for example , in Spain , where they all experience

12:11

heat stress and want to know which crops

12:13

react best to heat waves , for

12:15

example . So we're going to do different pilots

12:17

to learn about the different

12:19

problems but also the different solutions that we can provide

12:22

, and from that onwards we can sort of

12:24

choose a direction , where we want to go , and

12:27

with that comes the business model . But in the end

12:29

I think we're going to sell the

12:31

data . So it's not really a hardware company

12:33

, we sell data . We're

12:35

also not going to build a dashboard

12:38

or only software , so

12:40

it's sort of a combination and in the end we want

12:42

to plug in into existing

12:44

systems because they already exist , right

12:46

.

12:47

So , on the data , that's where the primary part of your

12:49

business model will be , and then you might supply

12:51

some of the technology , because it's necessary to

12:53

get the data .

12:54

Exactly .

12:54

Yeah Cool . You've

12:56

been successful in committing partners . You've

12:59

committed funding from the Dutch Research

13:02

Council , Routenbank Impact Fund

13:04

, the RVO and IT R&D

13:06

grants and some first paying customers . Can

13:08

you explain what role these organizations

13:11

played in your journey and how you approached them ?

13:14

The organizations that funded us you mean . Yeah

13:18

, well , you need funding to to hire

13:20

people also to pay ourselves , um

13:23

, so so they really helped us , but

13:25

I one , I , what you really want to stress is

13:27

the the rabobank impact fund

13:29

. Uh , there was a fund like

13:31

a subsidy or like a grant , so

13:34

it was free money of 25k

13:36

and we went over there to

13:38

to pitch . You first had to end in a pitch deck

13:40

and then you had to pitch and

13:43

we were like , okay , it's a rabobank , so it's going to be

13:45

all like investors , or at

13:47

least like bankers . Right , they want to talk about money

13:49

and the rest is well less important

13:51

show me the numbers exactly so we , uh

13:54

, we prepared a little bit and talked about how

13:56

much money we would save

13:58

for a grower , etc . And

14:00

then , um , then , after the pitch

14:02

, we were looking around and first

14:04

we had this woman that looked into us and

14:07

she was silent for a while and then she said

14:09

yeah , you don't recognize me . And

14:12

I looked at Thijs and at one point Thijs

14:14

yelled ah , radish . And

14:17

it turned out it was a radish grower

14:19

that we actually interviewed during our uh

14:21

, yeah , customer discovery , uh

14:23

phase , uh , to learn more about the problem

14:26

. But she was in overalls and we didn't recognize

14:28

her . Now she was very , you know , she had a nice blazer

14:31

and and , uh , sharply dressed

14:33

, yeah , she was very sharply dressed

14:35

, um , and it turned out that the whole

14:37

audience was like people from Glastuinbouw

14:40

Nederland , so horticulture the Netherlands , and

14:42

growers and people who

14:44

really understood the market

14:46

and the problems that these people faced . And

14:50

we had the person from Glastuinbouw Nederland

14:52

. He was saying , yeah

14:55

, it's nice , but it's

14:57

so much bullshit in your story and this

14:59

is wrong and that is wrong . And

15:02

I was quite surprised , of course , um , but

15:04

in the end , we actually got the funding , uh

15:07

, with the , the note that they said , yeah

15:09

, you , you get it , but , yeah , follow

15:11

up on this conversation with this guy from horticulture

15:13

netherlands , right , because he has a lot of insights

15:15

and he's still , uh , yeah , we talked

15:18

with him every , uh , every once in

15:20

a while and he really pushes us on

15:22

the right track , um , so

15:24

I think that the like , the advice

15:26

that we that came with the money is

15:28

even more appreciated than the money itself

15:30

right making sure that you have critical advisors

15:33

exactly in your in your surroundings , who

15:35

really understand this world that you're operating

15:37

yeah , and dare to say that that something is bullshit

15:39

in your story yeah , yeah , but that's

15:42

hard right .

15:42

If you're a founder , you're always dedicated to making

15:44

it work . And then somebody tells you yeah , yeah

15:46

, of course .

15:47

Yeah , it's not nice to hear , but that's what you

15:49

need to look for some yeah , people that say

15:51

stuff that's not nice to hear yeah , cool

15:53

.

15:53

Yeah , you've bet you probably read the

15:55

book the mom test of course , yeah

15:57

, I understand three times .

15:59

Oh , you had to read it three times cool

16:02

, um , yeah , great advisors .

16:04

And then the other ones , because you said robbing was a 25k

16:06

grant . How have you funded the

16:08

rest , because you've been running now since ? Well

16:10

, depends on when you start , right , uh yeah , for since

16:13

2023 , when did you

16:15

?

16:15

yeah , so we incorporated one year ago . Yeah

16:17

, but we were running , uh , through the westlands already

16:19

for half a year yeah , okay yeah , so

16:21

the first funding that we got was from

16:23

the nwo the take of one , which is a subsidy

16:26

of 40k . You can get it to really

16:28

learn if there's a problem out there for

16:30

your solution , um . So we that's

16:32

really where we did the internship with the greenhouse company

16:35

. Yeah , we interviewed many growers , breathers , um

16:38

, and yeah , we got some really great

16:40

insights , uh , also some things that well

16:43

were , yeah , and then

16:45

we applied for the take of two , which is a loan of

16:47

250k yeah um

16:50

, to really hire the first people and to really

16:52

have a bit of a larger Horizon

16:54

yeah instead of the 40 initial K

16:56

okay , yeah and indeed some

16:58

subsidies as well ?

17:00

yeah , and was it hard to convince these

17:02

uh people to invest in

17:04

you , both the loan and and

17:06

the grant .

17:07

Um , yeah , so for rabobank . I'm not sure what

17:09

they really thought , but uh , with the advice

17:12

they , I think they they saw that

17:14

we were uh taking their feedback

17:16

into account yeah um . So they

17:18

they saw that we were perhaps not on the

17:20

exact right track , but with this feedback

17:22

we would get there . Um . And

17:25

for the nwo , I'm not

17:27

sure how hard it is to get this , this money um

17:30

. Up until now we didn't really have a

17:32

hard time raising funds , but it's also

17:34

still um . Yeah , we

17:37

didn't really have to prove very much

17:39

. So the technology

17:41

is still in development and

17:44

if it might be something they're eager to fund

17:47

. But yeah , after this I

17:49

think it's called the customer discovery

17:51

or customer validation Now comes the

17:53

valley of death . So hopefully

17:55

in the next two years we get enough credibility

17:58

and we can actually get revenue

18:01

to see that it's indeed something that investors

18:03

will fund .

18:04

Exciting times ahead . We'll schedule

18:06

a follow-up podcast after this to check in and we'll

18:08

follow you anyway . Talking about

18:10

following up , let's talk FIA . So

18:12

you participated in the Philips Innovation Award

18:15

and for

18:17

anybody listening out there and thinking , is

18:19

this kind of award something for me ? Maybe

18:22

can you share . How

18:24

did the competition of Philips Innovation

18:26

Award help you in your business or

18:29

as a founder ?

18:30

Yeah . So they have a whole trajectory

18:33

with coaching moments and

18:36

you have to pitch and you come in contact with

18:38

a lot of investors . So it's a really good

18:40

way to get all these

18:42

things For example , the investor talks

18:44

to speak with a lot of investors and also learn

18:46

what they care for . You know

18:49

what do they want to see in

18:51

a few years , so that you can also take that into account

18:53

with your validation process . So

18:55

you get a lot of advice

18:57

in that sense and , of

18:59

course , especially if you win a

19:01

lot of publicity and credibility

19:04

as well , which is also

19:06

nice . I don't think there were many growers

19:08

listening , so , for example , for our customers

19:10

it didn't really help a lot , but

19:14

, for example , with students that

19:16

want to participate as a working

19:18

student or employee , it was

19:20

very helpful .

19:21

Right Visibility gets you out there .

19:23

Exactly .

19:24

Gives you access to the network . What

19:27

would be your one piece of advice for aspiring

19:30

VIA participants , so people that want to

19:33

compete ?

19:35

Be critical . Is it

19:37

the right time to join such a contest and

19:40

what do you want to get out of it ? So we , we

19:42

joined a bit without

19:44

thought . We thought that it might be nice

19:46

and might something might

19:48

come out of it . Um , if we had

19:50

the choice today , I wouldn't join . Because

19:53

, well , we the most , the two most

19:55

important tasks for a starting founder

19:57

, I think , are talking with customers and developing

20:00

products to validate it with customers . And

20:02

, yeah , joining a pitching contest

20:04

yeah , you learn about pitching , but you're not talking to

20:06

customers and you're also not building products

20:08

yeah so , um , in

20:11

, yeah , in the phase that we're where we're now

20:13

, where we , yeah , have a lot of pilots that we want

20:15

to conduct , uh , it might not be the

20:17

the wisest spending of our time , right

20:20

? So be critical .

20:21

Um , yeah , if it's in line with your focus

20:23

yeah , I think that's a solid advice to anybody

20:25

listening , because you can only spend your time once yeah

20:27

spend it wisely and spend it on what is important

20:29

for you at that time exactly .

20:31

I've heard someone say uh , if

20:33

you're saying yes to something , that means saying no

20:35

to something else .

20:36

Um , yeah , I want to respond with yes

20:39

now . Just very Great

20:42

tips , great advice Before

20:46

we go to the break . What

20:48

do the next six to 12 months look

20:51

like for you ? What's your biggest challenge ?

20:53

So the biggest challenge with what we're working

20:55

on is the pilots to really

20:57

learn what can we measure and how

21:00

can we help the customer

21:02

solve a problem . So

21:04

it's really learning about our own data

21:06

and the interaction with these

21:08

customers . So

21:11

that's the main challenge and from that

21:13

we'll strategize again .

21:14

cool nice learn from customers . See what happens

21:16

in the pilots and then go next phase

21:18

. Yeah , very nice , we'll go to a quick break

21:21

and then we'll be back you're

21:23

listening to the podcast of up rotterdam

21:25

.

21:26

We help startups scale and grow their business by offering

21:28

access to talent , access to international

21:30

markets and access to capital . Curious

21:33

how we can make the network work for you ? Go

21:35

to uprotterdamcom . This

21:37

podcast was made possible by the City of Rotterdam

21:40

.

21:42

Welcome back . We're talking to Berend and

21:44

we've covered so many parts of your journey , you

21:47

know , starting with plants in your dorm

21:49

room , starting the company with Thijs

21:51

, learning from these growers

21:54

, taking a job and also learning how to

21:56

grow as you go forward , building those

21:58

pilots . I think that's super inspiring . One thing

22:00

we didn't cover is the

22:02

importance of growers in our society , and

22:05

we kind of skipped that part a little bit . But I

22:07

think it's a bit of a hidden part of our

22:10

world , right . So what would be

22:12

your takeaway for the world to know

22:14

about the role of growers in society ?

22:16

yeah . So I think in our society , food

22:18

is really , especially here in the netherlands , something

22:20

we take for granted , right , you , you go to

22:22

the supermarket and there's just fresh food

22:24

everywhere , um , and I

22:27

also , yeah , I didn't realize , uh , earlier

22:29

like how how many , how

22:31

much work goes into the production of this food , and

22:34

that's really something that the growers what

22:36

taught us is , uh , how , how much

22:39

hard work goes into it , uh , and

22:41

actually , how how few fame

22:43

they get for it . Right , they work seven

22:45

days per week . Um , they

22:47

have a lot of challenges , right

22:49

, with the energy prices , with diseases

22:52

, with , yeah , a lot

22:54

of stuff . Um , and I don't

22:56

think , yeah , they get the the fame

22:58

they deserve . Um , and

23:01

also , if we look at sustainability

23:03

especially the last

23:05

time um , yeah , the

23:07

the energy consumption of the horticulture

23:09

is a lot in the news , but they don't talk

23:11

about the efficiency , for example , about

23:13

land use . So , for example

23:15

, in Spain one square

23:18

meter produces four kilograms of tomatoes

23:20

. In the Netherlands it's 80 . So

23:23

think about this efficiency and how much land

23:25

we can save , which we can sort of give back

23:27

to nature , if we take

23:29

this approach of horticulture . So

23:32

I think that's something that's not talked

23:34

about enough .

23:37

It's interesting that you mention that because , as Dutch

23:39

, I think we can take more pride in that . And

23:41

I think from abroad people looking at the Netherlands are

23:43

like oh you guys with those greenhouses it's super

23:45

sophisticated , everybody looks innovative , we

23:47

are a super innovative country , and

23:49

here we are , as Dutchies , sometimes complaining

23:51

. Yeah , everybody looks to the netherlands and here

23:53

in the netherlands we kind of look away yeah , and

23:55

that's uh , yeah feels weird yeah

23:58

, so maybe and that's , I think , a very good addition

24:00

also why you're doing this right so you're transforming

24:02

an industry , uh , so you're working

24:04

on transforming an industry yeah so support

24:06

your growers .

24:07

People support your growers .

24:08

Go out there . Check out the growers . Very good , um , maybe

24:11

if you want a job at a grower , go work there , and soon you'll

24:13

be using the tools of plants technology

24:15

to optimize your growth .

24:17

Oh , very cool .

24:17

Yes , there we go . Next generation of growers growing up

24:19

. Okay , then it's time

24:22

for the next part of our conversation , which

24:24

is listeners' questions , which is always fun because

24:26

we ask people around us and around you to send

24:29

in some questions . They

24:39

can be very random and very specific , so the first question is

24:41

from jorgen his question is you're also a sailor and a windsurfer

24:44

.

24:44

What are the similarities between sailing , windsurfing and building a company

24:46

? Oh , wow , um , I , I think , um , very

24:50

good question . I , I think , um , one

24:52

of the similarities is , um , as

24:55

a sailor or as a windsurf , you want to to

24:57

get somewhere , uh , but that could be uh

24:59

like half wind , so then you get there

25:02

easily . But sometimes , uh , it's

25:04

in the wind and and at first it

25:06

seems impossible to get there because you can sail

25:08

in the wind . But one time you discover

25:10

that if you , you sail , like

25:12

not in the wind , but uh , on

25:17

the wind . Yeah , close to wind , uh

25:19

, and then you make a pivot and then close on

25:21

the wind again . Then you actually uh

25:23

get there . So I think that's a nice metaphor

25:25

to uh , yeah , what entrepreneurship is about there

25:28

you go and every , every now and then , overstock

25:30

I don't know what the english word is oh , that's

25:32

a pivot .

25:32

There we go .

25:33

Very good , nice question , jeroen . Thank you

25:35

very much . Anita has a question . She asks

25:38

oh , this is interesting , a bit off topic

25:40

, but

25:44

can plants improve the productivity of entrepreneurs

25:46

? So this is kind of the other way around , right Do

25:49

you ?

25:49

have any plants in our office . I'm

25:51

not sure if it increases the productivity . I think we're

25:53

way too focused on like does the

25:55

sensor ? Can it be implemented on

25:57

the plant ? So in that sense , yeah

26:00

, it kind of does . So

26:03

plants produce our food as well , right ? So

26:05

in that sense it also yeah , they're

26:07

needed for entrepreneurship and just for

26:10

our society as well .

26:12

Yeah , okay , more plans . Then

26:14

our favorite team of the Philips Innovation

26:17

Award obviously also has questions . First

26:19

question I don't know which one asked which

26:21

one , I'm just going to say Lola asked this one . She

26:25

says the FIA has just launched the first

26:27

edition of the Find your Talent Day

26:29

, with the goal to connect talented

26:31

students to startups . And she said

26:33

I believe you have also

26:35

recently expanded your team . What

26:38

do you think is more important for

26:40

the success of a startup , product

26:42

or team ?

26:43

oh , team definitely , yeah , that's an

26:45

easy one , um , because , well

26:47

, the team develops the product , but , um

26:50

, yeah , it's . I

26:52

think we're very uh fortunate

26:54

with the people in our team . So I I mentioned thijs

26:56

as my co-founder . We also recently

26:58

hired miranda as a data scientist

27:00

, and we have some , some students , and they all

27:02

uh do incredibly uh good

27:04

uh with their , with their job , with their work . Um

27:07

, and without them , we yeah , we we wouldn't

27:09

uh come any further . And

27:12

also , people can change

27:15

. So if your product is bad , you can still sort of

27:17

change it or develop something else , and

27:19

you have to have this flexibility and I think that's

27:21

very important within your team . For

27:24

example , if I take Miranda , we hired her as

27:26

data scientist , but she's now also cloud engineer

27:29

. Yeah , it's sort of a flexibility

27:31

that a product perhaps doesn't

27:33

have .

27:33

Yeah , yeah , so having a good team to

27:36

move around . And the sailboat example

27:38

. You're on the same boat moving forward Okay

27:40

. But is it hard ? You mentioned

27:43

that the Philips Innovation Award helped you

27:45

with attention for students

27:47

that want to work for you . Is it still hard

27:49

to find new people , or do you find it easy still it ? Is it

27:51

still hard to find new people , or ?

27:52

do you find it easy ? Still , it depends . So we're in very good contact with Delft

27:54

, so we're in YesDelft the incubator of the

27:56

Delft University of Technology and

27:58

our professors are still involved

28:00

, so

28:04

we have quite some connections with Delft University of Technology . But we also need plant scientists

28:06

, for example . And that's a little bit further away

28:08

. It's like a more than one hour drive

28:10

, so

28:14

we had a hard time connecting with the plant scientists of the netherlands , um

28:17

, and now we found ways to to

28:19

connect with these people , uh , so we're doing

28:21

, for example , a consulting project with the

28:23

act it's called , uh , with

28:25

master students from plant sciences . That

28:27

that's uh . Do some

28:29

research about our technology , and

28:32

that's a very nice way to learn to get

28:34

to know some students on campus

28:36

as well , before you actually start

28:38

hiring . So that's also

28:41

sort of advice that there are different

28:43

ways to get to the right

28:45

people . But it takes longer

28:47

than I expected . It's not just sending out a

28:49

vacancy and

28:52

just wait for people to respond .

28:54

No , it takes quite a bit . You have to work . I

28:57

think your example is spot on finding

29:00

students to work on your product . You

29:02

exchange value already right , because they

29:04

have something to research and work on and you have the opportunity

29:06

to get to know them better .

29:07

Exactly .

29:08

I think also as you're growing your business . So I was

29:10

part of a company growing from 30 to 300

29:13

and we needed econometrists

29:15

, which back in the day was

29:17

a very small group , and we did a similar

29:19

thing . So we asked the professor what do you need

29:21

? Data ? We provide you data . You get the students . We

29:23

hired a few . So I think , keep doing

29:25

that , probably also as you expand

29:27

. Going to the next phase Great question

29:30

, lola , thank

29:40

you . Next phase great question , lola , thank you , and we'll send everybody to find your talent day

29:42

, the next edition . Um final question is also from one of our fantastic fia people of this year

29:44

, sophie , and her question is does it matter what crop you're growing with

29:46

the ultrasound sensors ?

29:48

it does , uh , but

29:50

so . So our technology is applicable to any

29:52

crop with xylem vessels and phloem

29:55

, sorry , with Xylem , so the tubes that

29:57

transport the water .

29:59

We're going to put that in the show notes so people can look it up on Wikipedia

30:01

. Yeah , exactly .

30:02

But certain trees don't have those for example . But

30:06

that's more the general technology . Our

30:08

current sensor is a sensor that you click

30:10

on the plant stem , so

30:13

it does have to have a stem of a specific size . So from

30:16

chrysanthemum I'm not sure if the listeners

30:18

know , but it's a flower uh , that's

30:20

that . That's big enough , and a tomato

30:22

is perfect . A tree is a little bit bigger

30:24

, so then you have to have like big amplifiers

30:26

to to produce a lot of sound . Um

30:28

, so we're ? We're now , uh

30:30

yeah , limited to a specific stem

30:32

thickness range .

30:34

Okay .

30:35

But in the end it should be applicable to any crop . The

30:38

main difference , except for the hardware

30:40

, is also the algorithms . So

30:42

a different crop might have a different inner structure

30:44

and

30:47

we have to account our algorithms

30:50

for that Okay cool .

30:51

So I would say , if you're interested into this

30:53

topic and you want to know more , I'm guessing

30:56

you'll have vacancies and internships very soon . So

30:58

go , check out Plants Technologies

31:00

, check out the website or

31:03

visit the Find your Talent Day . I mean , that's always a great

31:05

advice to go for Students

31:07

. That brings us almost to the

31:09

end , berend . So thank you so much

31:12

for sharing your journey . Uh

31:14

, I think it's remarkable to see what you've achieved

31:16

since we last met uh

31:18

down there in uh in rotterdam , and

31:20

, um , I think your story

31:22

is inspiring . You're changing an industry and you're

31:24

doing it not in the easiest way , so kudos

31:27

for that . Um , we are going

31:29

to follow your journey as you go

31:31

forward and hopefully you'll be a scale-up

31:33

soon and then we'll we have everything ready

31:35

to support you on the next phase . But

31:38

, as always , we close with a song

31:41

that you have selected , so would you

31:43

like to introduce which song that is and

31:45

why you chose it ?

31:46

Yes , of course , the song is called

31:48

Sleepless Nights or Slaapeloze

31:51

Nachten , from the Opposites . It

31:54

talks about well sleepless nights , or slapalos nachter , from the opposites . Uh , it talks about

31:56

well sleepless nights , which sounds very bad , but it's in a in a good kind of way . Right , you

31:58

have , as entrepreneur , I think , many sleepless

32:01

nights where you're sort of in the back of your mind

32:03

, you have a problem and you want to fix it , and then at

32:05

one night you sort of get a solution and you

32:07

just can't get up in the morning fast enough

32:09

to to test it and to go out there . So

32:11

it's about , yeah , getting your hands dirty

32:13

and , yeah , tingling feeling

32:16

for the next morning , so

32:18

in a very positive kind of way . So

32:20

I think it's a good song very

32:22

nice song .

32:23

Thank you , berend . Thank you for listening . If

32:25

you like us to keep making these podcasts , please

32:27

help subscribe like . Share the content . Until

32:29

next time I'm passing

32:46

through Sleepless nights .

32:48

The sun breaks through , my

32:57

eyes already closed , but I think

32:59

when I sleep I'm away from

33:01

all my dreams . But I'm sleepless nights . Lights

33:05

are shining in the darkness . With

33:07

the endless dream , no

33:09

reason to close my eyes because I can

33:11

find my future in my fantasy Daydream

33:14

and see the chances Unbounded

33:16

to the limits , lives , my life in

33:19

complete anarchy and seen everything can

33:21

change in gold Without the love of gold

33:23

. But in the words of the netter mouth

33:25

, you don't see me so soon , nothing

33:27

to do and have to bite my teeth with my tongue . So

33:30

I'm awake all night to dream Healthy

33:33

tension about what's coming Tomorrow . We start

33:35

the day with joy . I see the sun rising . Outro Music . My

33:37

eyes are already closed . I think when I sleep I'm

33:39

away from all my dreams . But

33:55

I'm sleepless at night . Yeah , and I want back to

33:57

the future . My feet burned

33:59

in the morning . I'm running behind city

34:01

lights , stare at ice in the city in front

34:03

of my skunk Zone , number one . My vision

34:05

is pure Sweat in my bed . I want love and

34:07

a bite and my thoughts on a master plan

34:09

and I dance with . The devil then shows how far

34:12

I am . Eyes follow me Just like

34:14

I'm in a movie , fingers on the keyboard as

34:16

I sit , still Ready for the action . You see , the laline

34:18

kicks Sleep , just like you're on the heroin

34:20

. The clock ticks Time

34:22

to sleep , because then I stay my dreams . The sun

34:24

breaks After a while . To my future , so

34:27

a urge to tomorrow . That's why I Lie awake

34:29

in my bed , my head full

34:31

of thoughts . I'm going

34:34

slowly . Sleepless

34:36

nights . The sun is going

34:38

slowly . My eyes are already

34:40

closed . I

34:42

think when I'm asleep I'm away from all

34:44

my dreams . But I'm sleepless

34:47

nights , sleepless

34:49

nights . I'm alone . I'm

35:08

out Planning for morgen . Door my nose , take

35:10

four Over bark and border . Bark and

35:12

border . De zon breekt

35:14

door de sterren aan de lucht . Dat is ons decor . Planning

35:16

for morgen . Door my nose , take four Over bark and border

35:18

. Ligt wakker in m'n bed , yeah

35:20

, m'n hoof vol met gedachten

35:23

. De tijd dikt langzaam door Slapeloze

35:25

nachten . De zon breekt

35:28

langzaam door M'n ogen

35:30

, reeds gesloken Den . The sun is slowly

35:32

setting . My eyes are already closed . I think

35:34

when I sleep I'm just away from all my dreams

35:36

, my deep , sleepless nights . Thank you

35:55

.