0:20

Hello and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from StartupRate.io,

0:23

your startup podcast, YouTube blog, and internet radio station from the Dach region.

0:28

Today, I do have somebody not necessarily from the Dach region,

0:32

but a neighboring country. From time to time, we sneak into other startup scenes around Germany.

0:38

And this time, I would like to welcome Annik from Belgium.

0:45

You are, by training, a marine biologist turned biotech investor.

0:51

You were employee number three at EIT Food, built the Rising Food Stars Network,

0:57

and now you lead Biotope, a top European biotech startup hub,

1:02

according to Financial Times. Annick, welcome.

1:06

Thank you, Joe. Thanks for having me.

1:09

I'm very confident there was a lot I've forgotten. and can you do a little bit intro by yourself?

1:17

Yes, I can. But to be honest, if I need to introduce myself,

1:20

I always start, I'm a derailed marine biologist.

1:24

So I think that's fully correct. I moved from science to business already in my PhD.

1:31

I did my PhD with BISF, which is a company everybody knows, of course.

1:36

And that for me was the first sparkling, like, let's do something different

1:39

than just science for the science. And that's how I, from opportunity to opportunity,

1:44

always through trying to follow what I think matters most, run from science

1:49

all the way into investment now.

1:52

Funny thing, you know what BASF stands for, BASF?

1:56

No, no, I don't. I used to, but I don't know anymore.

2:00

For everybody who wants to train German, it's Badische Annelien und Soderfabrik.

2:06

Exactly, there you go. Okay. I personally do understand what's fascinating about marine biology.

2:17

What did actually bring you to study marine biology?

2:21

What were your great plans to take over the world when you started?

2:24

And how did you become a biotech investor?

2:28

Yes. Thanks for that. As a marine biologist, I'm not this mermaid diving with

2:35

dolphins or whales or whatever.

2:37

You just ruined my picture.

2:40

But I did a PhD in a factory of BISF where I was working with water treatment.

2:46

And the fact that they were struggling with a marine species clogging their

2:50

cool water system made me a marine biologist.

2:54

It's as simple as that. And as a side remark, I had my first diving experience

2:59

now only in December. So I'm that far off of marine biology.

3:04

So taking over the world in preservation nature was never really high on my priority list.

3:10

I think I'm like many started the PhD because I like student life.

3:15

And it's like the easy, comfortable transition, at least for me,

3:19

it was towards professional life. However, being in that environment and then having this connection with corporate

3:28

showed me like there's something much more interesting than science.

3:32

I don't know if you know, Joe, but at a lot of these scientific events,

3:36

you get on stage, you tell something very scientific that nobody really understands

3:41

or is interested in because it's only part of a huge puzzle.

3:45

And then you get off the stage again. And that, for me, was not fulfilling enough

3:49

to really make a difference and change the world to a certain extent.

3:54

So I finished my PhD.

3:57

I became a company advisor and worked with entrepreneurs, with scale-ups,

4:04

with corporates, and also with these PhDs and postdocs where I felt there was

4:08

something entrepreneurial, but nobody brought it up.

4:12

So that's how I very organically, from a PhD, went through a collaboration with

4:17

corporates, partnering entrepreneurship, all the way up to EIT Food,

4:22

where I really joined in a very early phase, as you mentioned,

4:25

because that was the ecosystem to change the food system.

4:30

When you were talking about staying a little bit more in the student life,

4:35

I was wondering, was academia like becoming a professor, spending your whole life in there,

4:42

was that tempting from some dimension, except for getting there,

4:47

doing a presentation and getting off the podcast again?

4:51

Yeah, no, not really. I think a lot of PhDs and postdocs will align with me

4:58

that as a scientist, it's quite lonely.

5:02

Running a whole PhD is not the most dynamic environment to work with, even in academia life.

5:07

So I never had the ambition. I was also definitely not that good to have an academic career.

5:13

And that's why in an early phase, I started to look more into this applied world

5:18

where you could do something that could add value on the short term.

5:22

I've never been this long term impact person in the beginning.

5:27

Hmm. Tell us a little bit about EIT food and rising food stars, because when I think

5:36

about food and food startups, what comes to mind are those energy bars, those hangover shots.

5:44

But I do believe there's much more to that.

5:48

And interestingly, I think very few people will ever in their life get the experience

5:54

of building up an EIT program.

5:57

What was like the biggest challenge to be in there and building Uprising Foodstars?

6:03

Yeah, to be honest, it was an amazing journey there.

6:10

When I was hired, because as an employee, I think I was one of the first few

6:16

who really did an interview. And one person of the leadership team then said, yeah, Anik,

6:22

you sparkled the interest because you were talking about working with startups and not for startups.

6:29

So for me, being part of a small Belgian ecosystem, having the possibility to

6:36

do something on a European level for startups was like, we can do something.

6:40

The idea of EIT Food and of every EIT community is to take a problem and try

6:46

to solve it with the whole community. And specifically in the early phase, this small team was so intrinsically motivated to make a change.

6:55

So that was great. I think my network exploded at that moment in time.

7:00

And I still work a lot with these people on a daily slash weekly basis.

7:05

The biggest challenge though, Joe, was the aim of every EIT community as you

7:10

have a lot of big corporates, a lot of big universities who want to sparkle innovation.

7:15

And everybody knows that these are these

7:17

slowly moving ships and change

7:21

things in a short period of time is not their cup of tea

7:24

so bringing startups to the equation in theory

7:27

was a nice thing because they could make things move faster they could sparkle

7:31

this entrepreneurial drive within bigger entities however eit communities in

7:38

general also come with big projects and let's collaborate all together.

7:44

And then you see that a startup, specifically those very small ones in the beginning,

7:48

where there was the leadership of three, maybe one or two FTEs,

7:52

they're not fit for purpose to work in these bigger innovation projects to drive a change.

7:58

So that for me was the biggest challenge, like two different speeds and aligning

8:02

these two different entities. I always use the David versus Goliath term to

8:07

align them in a way forward on the short term.

8:14

And where did rising food stars come in what was uh was this a project you came

8:21

up with was this something you assigned or uh was this something,

8:28

you pitched there.

8:29

Yeah it was something that i was assigned

8:32

for so the aim was let's bring these startups into this

8:36

big ecosystem and the basic pieces of the puzzle were already there there was

8:42

already a scouting done like these might be interesting companies to work with

8:47

and the theory for me is like pick them up build them into a network and see what comes out of it

8:54

However, the fact that indeed there were some challenges with the startups,

8:58

over time, we changed it into a scale-up community.

9:01

These companies are way better fit for purpose.

9:04

Also because of the fact, and you mentioned it a little bit in the beginning,

9:08

Joe, we were looking for startups making a shift into the food ecosystem.

9:15

And that was not going to be the next energy bar of the smoothie that was coming

9:20

out of fermented ingredients. So we were really looking for companies who had a technology which had a way

9:27

broader application focus.

9:29

And that's why scale-ups who already had that, who know what it was to go from

9:34

a company of two or three people to five or 10, were a better fit for the EIT community.

9:40

And that's how the EIT Food Rising Food Stars Network ran from a startup network

9:46

to now more a scale-up network. And now EIT Food, there are more than 200 FTEs. The network is huge.

9:51

So I think now they cover every part of the entrepreneurial challenge.

9:58

And from rising food stars, you went to create Biotope.

10:07

Yes.

10:08

What is the problem you are solving, you're aiming to solve when launching Biotope?

10:18

For me, I always make it very...

10:23

Plastic so people can see it early stage

10:27

startup and mainly startups working with a technology

10:30

where a lot of money is needed they are in this eternal circle and they keep

10:37

on whirling around it and let me explain joe what it means you have a startup

10:41

on one side you have interesting parties whether it's corporates or investors

10:46

on the other side and they do not speak the same language

10:50

The startup, they have something. It's small. It itches like, ooh, there might be something in there.

10:58

But the party on the other side always needs to say, my God,

11:01

this seems amazing. But please come back. When you do the risk a little bit, you have a bigger volume.

11:07

You can show that you have some customer traction.

11:09

And the startups who got excited, like, yes, there's appetite on the other side.

11:14

They needed to say, great, but please give me the money and I will be able to deliver.

11:20

But the big parties always say, yeah, but first deliver and then you get the money.

11:24

And there were a lot of companies who could not really get out of that.

11:29

And that's why with Bio2, we decided, let's see if we can build something small

11:34

to really push them out of that circle and to give them the means, not only financial,

11:42

but the means to be able to deliver what the next, the next, the real investors,

11:48

as we call them, and the corporates are looking for.

11:51

And that was the aim. That was the challenge that we were trying to solve.

11:57

I see. I was also wondering, what was the biggest hurdle setting up this incubator?

12:06

Because it's backed by VIB, like the Flemish Institute for Biotechnology.

12:13

But there were hurdles. There were also a lot of opportunities.

12:17

But so VIB is the leading life science institute here in Belgium.

12:24

What the institute is really good at is spinning out our own IP,

12:30

meaning that we do not spin out a huge amount of companies.

12:35

We support and grow them internally for a very long time. And by the time we

12:41

spin them out, they do it with a seed round of three to five million.

12:45

We also do the big part in human health. So there is more 20, 30 million.

12:50

And then these companies really have the fuel to crawl.

12:54

The opportunity here to first look at the bright side is that by having this as a success mechanism,

13:02

it was very easy with the leadership team here to explain them how that model,

13:08

by making it a little bit more scalable, would also fit IP from outside of our institute.

13:13

So that was the convincing of how we could do this.

13:18

Also, definitely an advantage was the fact that as an institute,

13:23

we're so used of de-risking very, very early stage companies.

13:26

Also, that was something that was quite easy, which is not always the case if

13:30

you want to deploy money in early-stage companies. The biggest hurdle for me was that although VIB as an institute is really well

13:39

known in human health, it's way less known in egg and fruit and to expand that

13:45

planetary health, which is now our focus.

13:48

And building the brand and trying to convince startups as well as later on investors

13:55

that we can and we do play a huge role in this de-risking phase,

14:02

I think that was the last year definitely the biggest hurdle.

14:06

You talked about planetary health.

14:09

Can you give us a definition for that? What are you aiming for?

14:15

Yeah, yeah. I know it's a bit of a buzzword. And I like the impact. The story is you develop something that will make the

14:28

planet better or to at least to diminish the pressure on it a bit. But that entails a lot.

14:36

So for us, biotech always stays the key thing.

14:39

There needs to be a biotechnological challenge still.

14:42

But while originally that we were looking for biotech innovations in agri and

14:48

food, we now also expanded to more sustainable materials,

14:52

improving health of the soil, of water, much broader ecosystems,

15:00

also more digital solutions, and even to a certain extent, some hardware.

15:04

But everything that has a positive impact on the planet the human as an extra

15:10

thing but we're not focusing on the human health what

15:13

Was the defining moment when you knew biotope would be success.

15:19

I'm still waiting for that moment joe i don't know if there's ever a moment

15:23

that you can say yes now it's a success uh because uh since we we only really

15:29

started in 2022 which is not that long ago and it means that and our portfolio

15:35

companies are aware of that we are a startup amongst startups

15:39

that's also the way we like to work i think by struggling ourselves by building a product

15:47

people are willing to pay for as startups are willing to work with us and take

15:52

the investment with it the fact that we are also raising a fund shows that we

15:58

feel a little bit the same pains that they have. So that's a principle I like. However, every time one of our portfolio companies

16:05

jumps into a next phase, whether it's successful fundraising,

16:10

hiring extra FTEs, being successful in grant applications, that's for me the success.

16:19

That's for me showing with a few data points, this works.

16:23

And as you've been saying, to de-risk the very, very early phases of startups, right?

16:31

Yes.

16:32

I see. We will be back after a short ad break with talking about scaling and leadership.

16:44

Hey guys, welcome back to my interview with Anik from Biotope from Belgium.

16:50

We've been talking about how she has been a part of EIT Food and building up

16:56

Rising Food Stars and now she's with Biotope and that's what we're talking about,

17:01

an incubator for biotech startups.

17:04

Where are you physically located?

17:06

I am physically located in Belgium, in Ghent.

17:09

Ghent, not Brussels.

17:11

Not Brussels.

17:12

Not brussels i see you know what always comes to mind in brussels is chocolate and beer of.

17:20

Course that should be a general thing when you come to belgium chocolate beer and french fries

17:26

Yes they were invented there but but i have to tell you my last visit is is

17:31

already some time ago but it wasn't the best experience that i ever had i caught corona oh.

17:37

No in belgium in brussels

17:40

Yeah. It happened. I think at the time it could have happened all over the world.

17:45

Yes. No, I agree.

17:47

Yes. Talking about a little bit navigating the biotech startup landscape,

17:53

biotech startups often face regulatory and IP challenges.

17:58

How do you help founders to overcome them?

18:01

Because I do understand you need for a lot of that a lot of smart people,

18:06

lawyers, tax advisors, professionals, and regulations.

18:10

So that's also very expensive to have on hand as a startup, right?

18:15

Yeah, I was going to say, you also need a lot of money and, unfortunately, a lot of time.

18:21

So I fully aligned there. But as you say, I think it's a crucial part of the

18:25

puzzle that I would not say that biotech startups tend to forget it.

18:31

They tend to think that it will work out fine in the end.

18:36

And if you do not have a strategy behind it, it will not. I think that's very

18:41

black and white, but that's the story. Yes.

18:43

But I think how we work, Joe, is we bring pre-seed companies to seed stage,

18:51

meaning that by the time they raise a seed round, there can still be a lot of question marks.

18:55

They don't need to have a full novel food regulation, fully paid out to maybe

19:03

have an agreement on a component that will not be their end product,

19:06

just stating something. So what we do is we support the startups in understanding why IP is important,

19:16

to understand how to do the basic IP parts themselves, how do you search,

19:22

how do you check competition and where they find their NP,

19:26

what are different databases to use.

19:29

And we do the same with regulatory. Do you understand how EFSA is different

19:33

than FDA in the U.S.? What does it mean for the different countries?

19:38

So this is a part of the learning. And then they get support by legal advisors,

19:42

by regulatory experts, to together develop a long-term strategy on IP and on regulatory.

19:50

And that's how we really hands-on support them, help them with the first filing,

19:55

help them with mapping out what could be the different roadmaps,

19:59

IP-wise and regulatory-wise, but really focus on this long-term strategy mindset.

20:04

I was pretty curious how you are selecting the right founders to back,

20:11

because very simply spoken,

20:14

a lot of people emphasize a lot of the business plan, but I haven't met a startup

20:19

where the first business plan was the reality of the successful startup.

20:24

So most people say personality of the founder. What is your take on that?

20:31

Yeah, yeah. I think when I started this, I still thought that people,

20:39

people, people was exaggerated. It is people, people. But...

20:45

I think what is for us important is that it should be more than that.

20:50

So when it comes to how do we identify the right people to back is very often

20:56

as an early stage investor, you do your due diligence.

20:58

On paper, you have a few calls and then there's a selection.

21:02

We built a specific process whereby we do a first selection based on the signs

21:10

and the IP. How tangible is it? Not about the business model. as you can say, you can mold a lot around that,

21:16

but really on the science and the IP. And then the ones that stand out at this part are being invited to a base camp.

21:24

And a base camp for us is a three-week program, one week in person to understand

21:31

what is the baseline of the company. There's a reason why we call it the base camp and not the boot camp.

21:35

It's really about where are you now and where do you want to go?

21:39

And this first week is an in-person week. And that is for us the key thing to

21:44

learn, to understand who the people are who drive the company.

21:48

So, yes, people, people, people, but we also look at the science and the IP.

21:54

People, people, people, people, science, IP. Okay, understood.

21:59

That makes an algorithm. Okay. How do you balance this innovation and the risk when you evaluate those companies?

22:09

Because they can either work spectacularly well or go bankrupt very fast because

22:16

when they don't have the right balance there.

22:20

When you've been talking about how you help those founders to prepare,

22:26

look at the right databases, how to search, I imagine them sitting in front

22:31

of three screens with a lot of coffee mugs all around and looking, looking, looking.

22:38

I think that's not too far from reality.

22:41

Is it? No, it's definitely not too far off. And a lot of these sessions,

22:45

by the way, we also try to do in-house here so that they see from each other

22:48

that we're not the only ones struggling with a lot of coffee trying to understand

22:52

and how to navigate these things. Balancing innovation and risk in the pre-seed phase is a very delicate balance.

23:03

Um the i think if if we need to put a bet on that in such an early phase innovation

23:10

always comes first and risk always comes second so if the innovative potential is huge

23:20

and we see a business appetite then we will just take the risk but we will never go for a

23:28

risk-averse decision almost when it's a low-hanging fruit that cannot make impact.

23:35

So for us, innovation is key. And risk, we try to mitigate as much as possible

23:42

by working with them and trying to tackle that as good as possible.

23:48

I see. Let us now, after we know a little bit how your algorithm works to select startups.

23:56

Let's talk a little bit what you already learned from scaling those startups.

24:03

What do you wish more biotech founders understood before they seek their first investment?

24:12

Yeah, I, how many can I select?

24:17

I think the first one, perfect. I think the first one, As we mentioned,

24:22

Joe, a lot of biotech founders love their technology very often.

24:30

And one of the first lessons that we learned them is stop loving your technology,

24:35

but start loving the problem that you can solve and that people are willing to pay for.

24:44

Together with that comes the fact that

24:50

Sometimes if i look in in my surrounding and a lot of startups that we support

24:54

whether we invest in them yes or no they tend to forget that we are in a people

24:58

business we mentioned people people people from the team part but also you enter

25:03

your clients your investors they're also people and

25:10

this overarching focus on the tech should also disappear there.

25:14

So that's number two. And then the third one, I think that's one that we learned

25:19

by doing is operational excellence.

25:24

We still see a lot of startups who focus on this long-term at this big,

25:30

hairy, audacious goal that everybody's talking about.

25:35

And of course, there you are ambitious, right? You cannot change the world if

25:39

you look at this marginal innovations that you want to do.

25:44

But really showcasing and then working on what you have in your hands in an

25:49

early phase and have this operationally nicely laid out so that indeed you make

25:54

progress towards that goal instead of only selling that,

25:57

that is something that would be great if more early biotech founders would understand

26:03

that and implement that already in a very early phase.

26:07

Can you share with us like one example, one case study of a biotech startup,

26:12

Biotope, helped to grow?

26:15

Yes, yes, I can. It's still very early, because together with the investment

26:19

comes the support of 18 months. And the fact that we only made our first investment, not only three years ago,

26:26

makes my, again, my data points. And I think that's part of our language, right? Having

26:31

enough data points makes them limited but of

26:34

course there are always startups that that we

26:36

are very proud of and that we think make progress i

26:40

can make the example of zymofix zymofix is a is by the way a company that got

26:47

investment from high tech linder fund so there is a link with germany and they

26:52

scale up the production of beneficial microorganisms for agricultural applications.

26:59

They do it through biomass fermentation.

27:03

So this is a company. It was not even a company, by the way,

27:06

when they joined Biotope. It was Emil, the CEO of the company, joined together with a financial profile

27:16

that he worked together with. They joined our base camp with an idea coming out of an SMB that already existed.

27:24

And they said, you know what, we can use any waste manure in this case,

27:28

which is a huge problem in Belgium, but not only in Belgium.

27:32

And we can turn this manure into something sterile that can have added value for agriculture.

27:38

So as I mentioned, they came in, not even a legal entity yet,

27:44

1.2 FTEs, white male young guys, which does not align also with the diversity

27:52

angle that we are focusing on. But now in this less than two years, they managed to grow their team from 2 to 14.

28:02

They raised a successful seed round with some really impressive family offices.

28:09

They were successful in the EIC accelerator and they had this...

28:18

I think maybe they were a little bit, even the other way around than what I

28:22

mentioned before, they were operationally amazingly excellent,

28:25

but maybe their ambition was not ambitious enough.

28:30

And now they have grown in that. So I think for me, that's a great case study,

28:35

how this company, not only by investment, but also by grants,

28:38

can grow over time in a very rapid pace and hopefully can make a significant impact.

28:45

I see. um i was when you talked about like your diversity goals can you tell

28:53

us how diverse your current cohort is yes.

28:57

I can uh with pride by the way because 85 percent of our portfolio companies

29:02

have a mixed founding team

29:03

That is good um

29:07

we've been coming back a little bit to funding many founders struggle with raising

29:13

the next funding round coming out of of your program you have the first funding

29:19

round and then usually there's a problem next funding round what is your best

29:22

advice for them yeah yeah.

29:24

I think there joe these days are worse than ever if you want to raise i think

29:30

a lot of companies will agree with me on that and for me there the main advice

29:36

is to be Be realistic in the timeline.

29:41

Be realistic in understanding how long it takes not to raise only,

29:46

but to get money on your bank account. So we try to challenge our startups by very often they said,

29:54

we're going to open our seat round in May or in June, whatever.

29:57

There's this time frame. And then if you ask them, but, okay, when would you need money on your bank

30:03

account to keep on going?

30:06

In August.

30:07

And very often the answer is, yes, August or even June or July itself.

30:11

And for me, that's important. Be realistic on when you need money and then try to count backwards.

30:18

And not say I will open and everybody will be so enthusiastic that this will come by itself.

30:25

We've been talking about the diversity on biotech you you emphasize backing

30:32

diverse founders why is this important in.

30:36

Biotech for me it's important everywhere i think specifically in the early startup

30:41

phase and and maybe in tech a bit more than than in in some other fields

30:48

there is this balance which is not how the world looks like right

30:54

and I think for me diversity is key to innovation if you have if you limit who

31:03

can contribute to innovation you will also limit the amount of solutions that

31:08

will get out there and for me it's a given to have diversity.

31:12

And that can be diversity in every aspect.

31:17

So it's key. I think even if we see a full male or a full female team,

31:22

one of the questions is, how are you going to solve that?

31:29

How do you see the biotech startup ecosystem evolving in the next five years?

31:36

Quite positive. It's not the easiest ecosystem to be part of.

31:45

And I always admire these brave entrepreneurs who really want to put a technology

31:53

into practice to improve what we have here.

31:58

But the good thing is, at least in Europe, is that the European Commission has

32:03

also acknowledged this. There is now this wanting to build the future with nature within the European

32:13

Commission, and that will definitely boost biotechnology.

32:16

I think there we do have an added value.

32:20

On the other hand, the difficult financing climate, we already elaborated on

32:24

it, that will again have an impact on the other side. So I'm still hopeful.

32:28

I think it will grow, but it will stay a very difficult field for a startup

32:33

to easily navigate and grow in for sure.

32:38

I would like to ask you a few more very short questions because we're already

32:44

running around 30 minutes of recording time.

32:47

What is one biotech trend people are underestimating? Short answer.

32:52

Yeah. Um, biotech that can be of added value in restoring health.

32:59

What is the best piece of advice you ever received?

33:04

Oh, I think for me, that was not to spend too much time out of my circle of

33:10

influence. Stick at what I can impact.

33:14

If you weren't in biotech, what industry would you be in?

33:18

I would already have changed my studies. I think I would be a veterinarian,

33:22

no industry at all, working with animals.

33:26

One founder trait that guarantees success?

33:29

Oh, listening, for sure. Listen instead of talking.

33:35

Like listeners to podcasts.

33:38

For example, but also really deep listen, Joe.

33:42

I think you can acknowledge that. Not just listening while you're in the car

33:46

and driving, really listening to what it means and how it can add value to you.

33:49

What is your go-to productivity hack?

33:52

At this moment, meeting free day a week.

33:58

I actually also implemented this two days where only a very,

34:03

very few people can book some meetings with me and it helped me a lot.

34:07

That's why you do all the stuff.

34:10

You usually don't do administrivia, tax filings and all that stuff.

34:15

That's basically where I have this all connected.

34:22

I even get together in an online hangout together with a friend and we call it the hour of the skunk.

34:28

It's when we do all the stuff nobody wants to do.

34:34

Before we leave right now, final advice, what's the one key takeaway you want

34:43

biotech and agri-food founders to remember?

34:49

For me, it's something that we hardly touched upon.

34:53

As a biotech founder, do not only focus on diluted funding, meaning investment.

34:59

Definitely also explore grants as undiluted one.

35:04

The match of both are ideal, not one, not the other. Try to match them together

35:08

in your ideal financial strategy.

35:14

Now a lot of people know you. Where can they learn more? Where can they follow you?

35:20

I think the easiest is LinkedIn as well. Myself, as Biotope by VIP,

35:26

we're quite active on LinkedIn. So we have a website, but everything goes through a quite static thing.

35:31

LinkedIn shows how we work as a dynamic team.

35:36

Anik, thank you very much. Everybody else, if you enjoyed this episode,

35:41

don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to StartupRate.io.

35:44

We'll be back with more insight from top founders and investors.

35:49

And Anik, somebody like you, thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you.

35:53

It was a pleasure being here, Joe. Thanks for having me.

35:55

Have a good day. Bye-bye.

35:57

You too. Bye-bye.