0:06

New Startupread.io. Your podcast

0:08

and YouTube blog covering

0:10

the German startup scene

0:12

with news, interviews, and

0:14

live events. Hello and

0:16

welcome everybody. This is

0:18

Joe from Startupret.O. Your

0:20

startup podcast and YouTube blog

0:23

from Germany. Today bringing you

0:25

another interview, but this time

0:28

from the Austrian startup scene.

0:30

Salvas Daniel. Salas is a

0:32

pleasure to be here. Thanks

0:35

for invitation. The pleasure is

0:37

all mine. We have been

0:39

chatting a little bit before

0:42

and you are currently the

0:44

co-founder of Fonio. Yeah, co-founder

0:46

and CEO of Fonio.

0:48

Exactly, but Fonio is a

0:51

little bit early stage for our

0:53

normal coverage, but you have done

0:55

some stuff in the past, so

0:57

I thought, you would be still

0:59

a pretty interesting guest. So, welcome

1:01

to startup radio. Today we

1:03

explode Fonio.i, together with Daniel

1:06

Kainhard, I assume in English

1:08

you would say Kainrath, something

1:10

like this. The founder who's

1:12

been shaping business since age

1:14

of 16, in just 60

1:17

seconds. What sparked the idea

1:19

for Fonio and what problem

1:21

are you most passionate about

1:23

solving? Okay, so like in

1:25

general, the problem we're tackling

1:27

is that SMEs, especially in

1:30

Germany, where SMEs are the

1:32

backbone of the economy, have

1:34

a very hard time finding

1:36

people who cover phone calls,

1:39

especially repetitive phone calls.

1:41

So our customers lose up to

1:43

70% of their phone calls. So it's

1:45

a huge support for them to have an

1:47

AI pick up their phone calls, help schedule

1:50

appointments, do first level support,

1:52

etc. And like I could

1:54

tell you this very passionate

1:56

story about why we started

1:58

this company because like, for

2:01

example, I've been in love

2:03

with phone calls since I

2:05

was a little. But to

2:07

be honest, I just love

2:09

building. And it was very

2:11

obvious that this is a

2:13

huge opportunity and the space

2:15

where a company needs to

2:18

step in in Germany and

2:20

build the best German AI

2:22

phone assistant. So this is

2:24

what we're doing now. I

2:26

was also talking to Central,

2:28

another startup from south of

2:30

Germany and the SME market

2:32

in Germany, it's massive. They're

2:35

more than, they're almost three

2:37

and a half million SME

2:39

companies and I have to

2:41

admit, even for companies like

2:43

me, it is easier to

2:45

have somebody picking up the

2:47

phone. That's why in the

2:49

future I'll use Fonio when

2:52

I get them trying to

2:54

set it up. I was

2:56

wondering for our audience. What

2:58

do you guys think is

3:00

the most exciting problem for

3:02

new? I solving. Let us

3:04

know down in comments. I've

3:06

been talking about your founder's

3:09

journey or I've been hinting

3:11

about it. Take us back

3:13

to your early entrepreneurial days.

3:15

You've been building businesses since

3:17

16 and Your first venture

3:19

was an event agency at

3:21

18. What was like the

3:23

aha moment that led you

3:26

to phone you at AI?

3:28

Okay, so to go back

3:30

a little, I've always wanted

3:32

to be an entrepreneur. I

3:34

was building tarpet ideas from

3:36

the age 16 onwards. I

3:38

haven't spent a summer properly

3:40

since age 16, but I

3:43

love it. That's my passion.

3:45

But when I turned 18,

3:47

I stopped playing around with

3:49

different software ideas because none

3:51

of them really took off.

3:53

And it was like, okay,

3:55

hey Daniel, what are you

3:57

actually good at? And back

4:00

then, that was to be

4:02

quite frank, partying and playing

4:04

computer games. So I then-

4:06

What was your favorite computer

4:08

game? League of Legends. We

4:10

were actually like the second

4:13

best League of Legends team

4:15

in Austria. So we were

4:17

quite competitive. Okay, I see.

4:19

But I decided to host

4:21

a few parties myself, which

4:23

then- after a few struggles

4:26

and start then actually evolved

4:28

into a proper event agency.

4:30

That event agency still exists

4:32

today and was the foundation

4:34

of basically my entrepreneurial journey.

4:37

After a few years I

4:39

then decided to want to

4:41

build something more scalable and

4:43

that set the tone for

4:45

the founding of get nano

4:47

which we first started out

4:50

as a platform where we

4:52

connected where we connected Every

4:54

day people with brands they

4:56

love. So for example you

4:58

would get a bunch of

5:00

free products for brands you

5:03

like and then you create

5:05

stories on Instagram. And we

5:07

thought we were geniuses because

5:09

we were the first ones

5:11

to do so. But sometimes

5:14

there's a reason why you're

5:16

the first one because nobody

5:18

needs it. That happens. But

5:20

for some reason, even though

5:22

we made a lot of

5:24

mistakes and nobody really wanted

5:27

our product, we actually grew

5:29

to 10 employees, but then

5:31

we hit a ceiling and

5:33

then we decided to pivot

5:35

into user-generated content. And we

5:38

then became one of the

5:40

larger platforms where we basically

5:42

connected a lot of creators

5:44

that created user-generated content ads.

5:46

with companies who needed those

5:48

ads because they were spending

5:51

a lot of ad spent

5:53

on, for example, Facebook and

5:55

Instagram, so they needed to

5:57

circle through a lot of

5:59

creatives. And we took a...

6:02

a cut when we connected

6:04

them. And we sold this

6:06

company last year, and then

6:08

I just started right away

6:10

with Fonio. After a few

6:12

months, meantime of exploration, and

6:15

you asked what actually led

6:17

me to building Fonio. And

6:19

that was actually a learning

6:21

that I had during the

6:23

time at get nano. And

6:26

I saw a huge opportunity

6:28

in the US, where a

6:30

company was starting to shape

6:32

this field of user-generated content.

6:34

But it took me quite,

6:36

like I always thought that

6:39

this is amazing what they're

6:41

doing, and it is so

6:43

close to like... our entire

6:45

topic, the micro influencer stuff

6:47

or nano influencer stuff that

6:49

we were doing, but I

6:52

didn't pull the trigger on

6:54

actually like also going into

6:56

the GTC space. And I

6:58

hated myself that I waited

7:00

so long because there was

7:03

another company who was like,

7:05

okay, fuck this, we're just

7:07

copying what the US guys

7:09

are doing and building a

7:11

trying to build a better

7:13

product in Europe. And that

7:16

actually also set the tone

7:18

for why we started Fonio.

7:20

There are a couple of

7:22

great companies in the US

7:24

building AI phone agents. So

7:27

as soon as I saw

7:29

that, that they are building

7:31

the first scrappy products and

7:33

going through YCE, I was

7:35

like, okay, this is such

7:37

a no-brainer, we need to

7:40

do this in Germany. Let's

7:42

start it. It's a very

7:44

honest and very unsexy story.

7:46

But this was my learning.

7:48

and it was the best

7:51

decision ever because we're currently

7:53

growing like crazy. I have

7:55

questions. You were talking about

7:57

gaming parties. Was it still

7:59

land parties where you connected

8:01

like all the companies? computers

8:04

and everybody was in a

8:06

room and something like that

8:08

because there was something I

8:10

did back in the 1990s

8:12

and we had those red,

8:15

I don't know the name

8:17

of in English Quaxiel Cabo,

8:19

you need to screw in

8:21

and stuff like that. And

8:23

I set a new record

8:25

in those parties. I think

8:28

within 10 minutes I died

8:30

53 times in those eic

8:32

shooters, they just not my

8:34

type of game. I also

8:36

attended these kind of parties,

8:38

but when we hosted parties,

8:41

that was more like concerts

8:43

and at nightclubs. So it

8:45

wasn't like gaming parties, but

8:47

more on the nightlife part,

8:49

yeah. Okay, you've experienced a

8:52

lot of growth and challenges

8:54

in your entrepreneurial journey from

8:56

get nano and its pivot

8:58

to user-generated content. to launch

9:00

in Fonio, what was the

9:02

biggest challenge you faced early

9:05

on in your career and

9:07

what are key lessons you

9:09

did learn from this? Oh,

9:11

there were a lot. Give

9:13

me a second. I think

9:16

starting with the events told

9:18

me a lot about people.

9:20

For example, when you're 18

9:22

years old and you get

9:24

scanned by the mafia, that

9:26

really teaches you a lot.

9:29

Probably my biggest challenge so

9:31

far was a co-founder clash

9:33

at get nano, which we

9:35

maneuvered nicely. But that was

9:37

a very tough time of

9:40

my life, which gives me

9:42

now a lot of clarity,

9:44

how I also want to

9:46

build Fonio. Yeah, so that's

9:48

my answer. What was your

9:50

approach to solving this problem?

9:53

Was it reconciling? Was it

9:55

somebody? getting bored out somebody

9:57

leaving company with what kind

9:59

of solution do you start

10:01

there and how would you

10:04

purchase a similar situation? Well

10:06

for us it basically meant

10:08

that we were on the

10:10

same side that it didn't

10:12

make sense anymore to work

10:14

together. We were three co-founders

10:17

one who joined later which

10:19

we then like clashed and

10:21

We were on the same

10:23

side that he should leave

10:25

and wants to leave the

10:27

company, but we weren't on

10:30

the same side on the

10:32

terms. And there's no general

10:34

solution for that. Very much

10:36

depends on the situation. And

10:38

in this case, we just

10:41

had a very hard time

10:43

to agree on the deal.

10:45

because for us we're currently

10:47

also a little bit of

10:49

a growth phase where we

10:51

actually try to seek for

10:54

an investment but investors don't

10:56

give you money if you

10:58

have a screwed up a

11:00

cap table. So that was

11:02

a huge blocker for me

11:05

because it's so tough if

11:07

you live your crazy start-up

11:09

lifestyle and you know you

11:11

need that next round. But

11:13

there's this very basic yet

11:15

so large thing that is

11:18

a huge blocker. I

11:20

think we already know the

11:22

answer but I prep the

11:24

questions anyway. Looking back with

11:26

everything you build, Fonio, get

11:28

nano and your agency, what

11:30

did you wish you had

11:32

done differently in your first

11:34

year of business? So my

11:36

first year of business I

11:38

actually think I did quite

11:40

well for an 18 year

11:42

old starting out. I'd say

11:44

probably my largest largest... Farkups

11:46

were when I was starting

11:48

at nano. Because we were

11:50

so convinced that our idea

11:53

is gold, we didn't tell

11:55

anyone. We made everyone sign

11:57

any A's, we didn't talk

11:59

to a lot of customers,

12:01

and that was probably the

12:03

biggest mistake. We thought, like,

12:05

we were so convinced by

12:07

the idea that we didn't

12:09

challenge it and we didn't

12:11

build for customers. Because when

12:13

you create a company, all

12:15

you need to do is

12:17

you need to create value

12:19

with your product. For example,

12:21

now we create value, because

12:23

you... You don't need to

12:25

hire 10 employees anymore to

12:27

cover your repetitive phone calls

12:29

or lose all your phone

12:31

calls because you don't have

12:33

the people to do so.

12:35

And that's pure value. And

12:37

this is what we're focusing

12:39

on. With Get Nano, we

12:41

didn't take a look at

12:43

that. We just built the

12:45

product, talked to no one,

12:47

and it was actually a

12:49

miracle that we had any

12:51

customers at all. I

12:57

see. So the lesson is

12:59

talk to your customers, which

13:01

thinking about it now is

13:04

kind of obvious, but there

13:06

was a time in investing

13:08

in venture capital not too

13:10

long ago where this was

13:12

actually encouraged first to discover

13:15

build out your vision and

13:17

then you could start earning

13:19

money. I actually do believe

13:21

those days are far far

13:23

behind us. That's true. And

13:26

it's good that they are.

13:28

Yeah, it's basically a convenient

13:30

way to justify to burn

13:32

money, right? Yeah. Also, you're

13:34

basically lying to yourself all

13:37

the time. Because you think

13:39

you're doing something that creates

13:41

value, but you're not. You

13:43

just need to talk to

13:45

your customers and basically build

13:48

features that they want. And

13:50

this is what we're doing

13:52

at FONU for example now.

13:54

We have now close to

13:56

350 customers. and we're probably

13:58

getting feature like 30 feature

14:01

requests per month and we're

14:03

just doing it very strategically

14:05

we just look at how

14:07

many people want X how

14:09

many people want Y and

14:12

then we build it so

14:14

it's very very close with

14:16

the customer and this is

14:18

why we're growing so fast

14:20

at the moment because we

14:23

build for the customer. Let

14:25

us talk a little bit

14:27

about Fonio. So my understanding

14:29

is it is a tool,

14:31

an AI assistant that picks

14:34

up the phone, takes messages

14:36

and also helps you to

14:38

sort those messages as the

14:40

party who received them. Is

14:42

that about true? Is that

14:45

about right? I'd framed it

14:47

a little different. It's basically

14:49

an AI that you can

14:51

tweak yourself, you can set

14:53

the voice, the information that

14:55

the AI should have, the

14:58

way it should conduct a

15:00

conversation, and then you also

15:02

get a phone number from

15:04

us, and under this phone

15:06

number, the AI always picks

15:09

up 24 7, and can

15:11

conduct as many calls as

15:13

possible at the same time.

15:15

So basically what our customers

15:17

usually do is they just

15:20

use call forwarding if they

15:22

get like a call and

15:24

then they forward it to

15:26

the AI number. The AI

15:28

picks up, conducts a conversation

15:31

and then the cool part

15:33

is that the AI also

15:35

is able to actually do

15:37

actions. For example, to place

15:39

an appointment to do API

15:42

requests during the call. For

15:44

example, it can tell you

15:46

the status. of your order

15:48

or it can also forward

15:50

calls and then you get

15:52

and the AI also transcribal

15:55

transcribes all the calls. Most

15:57

customers want this transcript by

15:59

email, but they can also

16:01

get it in different ways.

16:03

And the AI is also

16:06

able to send SMS and

16:08

other stuff. Again, I do

16:10

have questions. Up front, I

16:12

don't really stupid one, but

16:14

you said you can set

16:17

the language. Could you also

16:19

set accents, for example, German

16:21

with a Bavarian or Swabian

16:23

accent? Would that be possible?

16:25

I already like that idea.

16:28

And secondly, me assuming being

16:30

a customer of Fonio and

16:32

having my Fonio, my Fonio,

16:34

my Fonio assistant, picking up

16:36

like all the calls that

16:39

I get, question for me

16:41

is how do I get

16:43

the information that there's something

16:45

going on? Do I get

16:47

an email? Do I get

16:49

a message? Do I get

16:52

how does it tell me

16:54

there's something out there? you

16:56

can choose how you want

16:58

to get the message. So

17:00

if you get all the

17:03

transcripts around the platform, but

17:05

you can also create an

17:07

email automation that you always

17:09

get an email, you can

17:11

also choose under what circumstances

17:14

you get an email, for

17:16

example, only under the top

17:18

when the conversations about the

17:20

topic X. Yeah, so you

17:22

can choose. There are multiple

17:25

ways. Would it be or

17:27

is it possible with Fonio

17:29

to really have somebody replying

17:31

English and say choose your

17:33

language and you have like

17:36

50 languages you can choose

17:38

from? Yeah, currently we're only

17:40

able in German and English

17:42

but we'll roll out to

17:44

all relevant European languages by

17:46

the end of the year.

17:49

That's pretty good. And then

17:51

I'm of course interested in

17:53

understanding accents because we are

17:55

now speaking English. There is

17:57

a sketch from the BBC

18:00

with two Scottish guys in

18:02

an elevator where the where

18:04

the elevator doesn't understand them,

18:06

where they want to go

18:08

or open the door. So

18:11

how good are you guys

18:13

in really understanding somebody who

18:15

does have an accent, for

18:17

example, like me, who is

18:19

not an English native speaker?

18:22

Oh, very good. So for

18:24

example, there would be no

18:26

problems at all. There are

18:28

parts in Austria and Germany

18:30

where people have very, very

18:33

heavy accents, so you would...

18:35

Actually, like even if you're

18:37

a German native speaker, you

18:39

have a hard time understanding

18:41

what these people are saying.

18:43

This sometimes can be tricky.

18:46

But that at the end

18:48

of the day, an AI

18:50

is very mathematical. So it

18:52

basically tries to understand the

18:54

most reasonable context of the

18:57

vocals your voice is generating.

18:59

So it gets tricky when

19:01

what you're trying to say

19:03

car, but it sounds like

19:05

tree, then it gets tricky.

19:08

But as soon as it

19:10

could be a car, especially

19:12

like with the following words

19:14

behind it, then the AI

19:16

understands it. Mm-hmm. I see,

19:19

I see. Can you walk

19:21

through how phone you works

19:23

and would make it uniquely

19:25

positioned for addressing a problem

19:27

compared to other AI assistance?

19:30

So I told you the

19:32

founding story of how we

19:34

started the company. The beauty

19:36

is that we now actually

19:38

address also internationally a very

19:40

new audience, which is SMEs.

19:43

The entire AI phone assistant

19:45

market is very very new,

19:47

and we're the first ones

19:49

to build actually... I need

19:51

to say this as a

19:54

founder, but the perfect product

19:56

for SMEs. So most AI

19:58

phone agent companies, for example,

20:00

great companies are like in

20:02

the US or VAP and

20:05

retail for example. they create

20:07

for developers first, which allows

20:09

you more settings, but also

20:11

it's way harder to actually

20:13

integrate into your workflows. For

20:16

us, our current product is

20:18

so easy that our customers

20:20

only need like anywhere between

20:22

10 and 30 minutes to

20:24

set up a fully functional

20:27

AI. And that's a huge

20:29

difference. With Fonio AI growing

20:31

at 80% monthly, how large

20:33

is actually the market opportunity?

20:35

Can you define like your

20:37

total addressable market and your

20:40

specific audience? Because what I

20:42

had in mind when I

20:44

heard first phone assistant, what

20:46

instantly came to my mind

20:48

is doctor's offices here in

20:51

Germany because either nobody picks

20:53

up or the line is

20:55

busy. Yeah, so we do

20:57

have a lot of doctor's

20:59

offices but also various other

21:02

companies who are customers. So

21:04

market size. I'm in the

21:06

lucky position that I don't

21:08

need to look after a

21:10

market size right now. We

21:13

are currently not fundraising because

21:15

my co-fund and I are

21:17

basically pulling our own funds

21:19

because we believe in the

21:21

idea so much that we're

21:24

our own investors. So we

21:26

didn't create a pitch deck

21:28

yet. I looked up like

21:30

numbers once. So the market

21:32

for contact centers in Europe

21:34

is currently around $2 billion

21:37

and is estimated to grow

21:39

to $8 billion until 2032.

21:41

and there's a huge spot.

21:43

We're not going after market

21:45

of contact centers, we're going

21:48

after market where there are

21:50

no numbers. Because... Basically, we

21:52

address a market that includes

21:54

just employees at companies who

21:56

do phone calls. So basically

21:59

we need to look at

22:01

the time these employees spend

22:03

during phone calls and calculate

22:05

it with their hourly wage.

22:07

And this market is way

22:10

beyond $2 billion. When you're

22:12

talking about contact centers, is

22:14

it also possible to have

22:16

like phonier on 20 lines

22:18

and then two or three

22:21

human operators and the AI

22:23

hands over when it gets

22:25

too complicated? We actually do

22:27

have contact centers using phonier

22:29

already. Basically doing exactly what

22:31

you said. Given the rapid

22:34

growth of AI-driven technologies, what

22:36

trends in the industry validate

22:38

the need for phonier AI

22:40

and how do you see

22:42

these trends evolving? I'd say

22:45

it's probably not an industry

22:47

trend that that actually works

22:49

towards our favor. It's more

22:51

like a general trend in

22:53

Europe where companies have a

22:56

very hard time finding people

22:58

who are willing to do

23:00

this very simple and repetitive

23:02

tasks because it isn't a

23:04

super fun job to pick

23:07

up the phone all day

23:09

long and do like set

23:11

appointments. and that lack on

23:13

the labor market, that is

23:15

actually a huge opportunity for

23:18

us right now. And I

23:20

think it's also a huge

23:22

opportunity, now I'm getting a

23:24

little political, but for Europe

23:26

in general, with a decline

23:29

in the birth rates, that

23:31

we need more automation to

23:33

be like actually able to

23:35

compete internationally. with labor costs

23:37

in Asia being way lower

23:39

and the entire laws in

23:42

the US being way lighter

23:44

when it comes to labor.

23:46

So I think that that's

23:48

a huge opportunity. And of

23:50

course in general the acceptance

23:53

for AI is just rising

23:55

every day. We will be

23:57

back with you on the

23:59

business model and revenue strategy

24:01

after a little at break.

24:04

Hey guys, welcome back to

24:06

our interview with Daniel from

24:08

Fonio.i. He is the CEO

24:10

and co-founder and a serial

24:12

entrepreneur. We've been talking already

24:15

about a lot of stuff,

24:17

but let's talk a little

24:19

bit about business model and

24:21

your revenue strategy. What's the

24:23

engine that tries phonous revenue?

24:26

How does your business model

24:28

support this long-term growth, especially

24:30

since the AIFI that is

24:32

currently pretty competitive? Very good

24:34

question. So we're currently in

24:36

a lucky position that we're

24:39

actually the only software company

24:41

in Germany who builds a

24:43

product just dedicated to AI

24:45

phone assistance in German. So

24:47

again, I need to say

24:50

this as a founder. But

24:52

there's currently no startup in

24:54

the market that comes close

24:56

to us when it comes

24:58

to German AI phone assistance.

25:01

And so what we're doing

25:03

right now is we're investing

25:05

heavily into branding already. So

25:07

my goal within the next

25:09

two months already is for

25:12

all competitors to follow us,

25:14

because there will be a

25:16

lot of companies that will

25:18

follow us. They all need

25:20

to get the comment when

25:23

they talk to PR people,

25:25

etc. to customers. Oh. So

25:27

you're doing the same thing

25:29

as Fonio. So that's our

25:31

goal already when it comes

25:33

to branding. We're quite far

25:36

on that side for a

25:38

young startup. And then in

25:40

general, we're also investing very

25:42

heavy into product because at

25:44

the end of the day,

25:47

the best product wins. So

25:49

right now these are very

25:51

much basics for example we're

25:53

now the first company in

25:55

the world that is able

25:58

to sustainable understanding. email addresses

26:00

in German. Sounds very unspectacular,

26:02

but it's amazing. This will

26:04

only give us like a

26:06

little advantage over the next

26:09

few months. But we need

26:11

to keep pushing on our

26:13

advantage right now and just

26:15

try to accelerate our growth.

26:17

Yeah. I vividly remember like

26:20

two or three years ago

26:22

when we had our speech

26:24

recognition still with a different

26:26

provider. And that, for example,

26:28

made a startup rate that

26:30

I, oh, made ballroom dancing.com.

26:33

So I feel where you're

26:35

coming from. Let's talk a

26:37

little bit about traction. You're

26:39

reaching 300 customers and aiming

26:41

for 5,000 at the end

26:44

of the year. You are

26:46

doing this with your own

26:48

bootstrapped funding. you are reaching

26:50

a lot of mice. And

26:52

usually when you get into

26:55

this growth area, you talk

26:57

about funding, you talk about

26:59

VC, and you usually get

27:01

a soccer table, pool table,

27:03

something like this for the

27:06

office. I was wondering, what

27:08

kind of mice don'ts do

27:10

you celebrate with the team

27:12

and how? We didn't celebrate

27:14

a milestone yet. I think

27:17

we sell it. Yeah, we

27:19

celebrated when we realized that,

27:21

so when we first, we

27:23

launched in September, 2024, and

27:25

we celebrated when we realized,

27:27

because we were first planning

27:30

to just do like a

27:32

beta and work with assigned

27:34

partners and give away the

27:36

product for free, we realized,

27:38

okay, wow, even though this

27:41

is a very scrappy MVP,

27:43

people are loving it, they

27:45

want to pay for it.

27:47

We don't need to do

27:49

a classic beta or, or,

27:52

design partner face. That was

27:54

a moment of celebration because

27:56

we knew, holy shit, we're

27:58

onto something. But right now

28:00

we're just laser focused on

28:03

building the best product and

28:05

creating the best brand because

28:07

and we're not looking back

28:09

and because there we know

28:11

that there will be so

28:14

many companies in this market

28:16

and we just know that

28:18

we can't Can sell or

28:20

of course we could celebrate

28:22

for us right now, which

28:24

is that focused on getting

28:27

faster and faster every day

28:29

and there's no soccer table

28:31

What do you think of

28:33

you and your team? What

28:35

has been your most significant

28:38

achievement so far? We know

28:40

the people love it, okay?

28:42

That's one check, but then

28:44

there is, like you feel

28:46

you took another step, what

28:49

would be? Let's say, when,

28:51

honestly for me personally, when

28:53

content creators... started talking about

28:55

it when we had customers,

28:57

again I need to repeat

29:00

this, when we had customers

29:02

that asked us if they

29:04

could create events with their

29:06

customers where they would talk

29:08

about Fonio AI. Then I

29:11

was like, that was a

29:13

moment where we were celebrating.

29:15

I was like, okay, wow,

29:17

this is crazy. This is

29:19

surreal. Yeah. Sounds

29:22

like Next Generation Topaway somehow.

29:24

Yeah, that's the goal, that's

29:26

my life goal. I was

29:28

talking a little bit about

29:30

your go-to-market strategy here. How,

29:32

because there, it's awesome that

29:34

your clients love what you

29:36

do and that you scale

29:38

pretty well, but how do

29:40

you, because there, you have

29:42

a few thousand clients at

29:44

the end of the year,

29:46

but only in Germany, we

29:48

establish, it's almost three and

29:50

a half. million entities there.

29:52

How do you plan to

29:54

acquire customers at scale? And

29:57

what is your strategy there?

29:59

is that at my previous

30:01

company we already had two

30:03

and a half thousand customers.

30:05

That's not like a lot

30:07

a lot, but it's still

30:09

quite a lot. And I

30:11

have to spend a lot

30:13

of time with scaling topics.

30:15

So right now we're following

30:17

different approaches. We do have,

30:19

I'll start with the classical

30:21

outreach part, okay, when it

30:23

comes to sales. We do,

30:25

or we could do, because

30:27

we're currently not doing it,

30:29

because all our sales pipelines

30:31

are completely full, so we're

30:33

not doing active sales, it's

30:35

only inbound, but we're ready

30:37

to do it as soon

30:39

as we hire more salespeople.

30:42

Automated LinkedIn messages, we buy

30:44

the data from tools like

30:46

Clay.com to target our perfect

30:48

target audience, and then send

30:50

out automated LinkedIn messages. One

30:52

part. We do have over

30:54

100 email inboxes warmed up

30:56

and ready to send out

30:58

50,000 emails a month without

31:00

getting blacklisted. So there's also

31:02

an engine that is ready

31:04

as soon as we press

31:06

the button. Then something I'm

31:08

really excited about is that

31:10

we can use our own

31:12

AI to do cold calling.

31:14

And we basically have no

31:16

limits on that one. We

31:18

could call entire Germany within

31:20

two weeks. I'm afraid somebody

31:22

will complain there. Somebody will

31:24

complain that for sure. And

31:27

it's only allowed in the

31:29

BDP sector with the AI

31:31

Act that already got banned

31:33

for private people. So this

31:35

is also something. This is

31:37

the outreach part. This is

31:39

ready but we're not touching

31:41

it because our pipelines are

31:43

full. Then we have the

31:45

performance marketing part. I do

31:47

have a lot of experience

31:49

when it comes to performance

31:51

marketing. We just built funnels

31:53

where people can sign up

31:55

by themselves on our website.

31:57

This works very well at

31:59

the moment. And then we

32:01

also work with creators, so

32:03

mainly YouTubeers, creating content about

32:05

Fonio. This is great, also

32:07

for self-sign-ups, but also for

32:09

validation. If someone isn't sure

32:12

how the product works, if

32:14

we're legit, etc. And then

32:16

another huge driver is a

32:18

word of mouth. It's actually

32:20

insane at the moment. And

32:22

partners. So we do have

32:24

a huge amount of partners

32:26

at the moment. Actually, the

32:28

amount of partners is so

32:30

huge that it's in a

32:32

weird proportion. to our customers.

32:34

We have over 80 partner

32:36

agencies already who want to

32:38

sell Fonio and this also

32:40

starts to compound. So like

32:42

we're getting first sales from

32:44

agencies we onboarded in November

32:46

but the main part of

32:48

these agencies we onboarded over

32:50

the past two months. So

32:52

I also expect a huge

32:54

amount of growth in that

32:57

field. Yeah. We

32:59

will be back after a

33:01

short ad break. Thank you

33:04

for sticking with us. We

33:06

still interviewing serial entrepreneur Daniel,

33:08

co-founder and CEO of Fonio.a.i.

33:11

And now we're getting a

33:13

little bit into team and

33:15

leadership. Tell us about your

33:17

team at Fonio and what

33:20

key roles. Have you built

33:22

so far in what makes

33:24

a team uniquely suited to

33:26

execute your vision? So when

33:29

it comes to our team,

33:31

we're currently eight people, and

33:33

I'll also, I need to

33:35

talk about my co-founder, because

33:38

I think my co-founder is

33:40

the true star of the

33:42

show. His name is Matthew,

33:44

Kuba. Matthew you got to

33:47

know about Matthew he lives

33:49

on the more rural side

33:51

of Austria still at his

33:54

mom's place in his children's

33:56

room. He is almost 30

33:58

now, but he's probably the

34:00

best developer in Austria, or

34:03

probably even in Europe, or

34:05

amongst the top 10 for

34:07

sure. Matthew used to also

34:09

started building his first companies

34:12

when he was 16 years

34:14

old. was a long-time CPO

34:16

at a scale-up, where he

34:18

led over 100 people. He

34:21

got named the second best

34:23

developer in Europe, and he

34:25

truly accelerates her growth. Like,

34:27

he alone is faster than

34:30

10 developers at my past

34:32

company. So that's insane. He's

34:34

a true star of the

34:37

show. We all know that

34:39

culture eats strategy for breakfast,

34:41

but what are some of

34:43

the core values that you

34:46

try establish in Fonio's company

34:48

culture? Yeah. So our culture

34:50

is very transparent. We have,

34:52

so the way we communicate

34:55

is we have a lot

34:57

of respect for each other,

34:59

so also psychological safety. try

35:01

to be nice and have

35:04

fun, but we're also very

35:06

direct. So we create a

35:08

culture where we will give

35:10

you always direct feedback, and

35:13

this direct feedback could seem

35:15

harsh if you don't have

35:17

the emotional safety for it,

35:20

but we also create that.

35:22

And that makes us really

35:24

fast. And then we don't

35:26

do a lot of meetings.

35:29

We only do meetings when

35:31

they're actually necessary. We try

35:33

to work a lot of

35:35

asink. And if we do

35:38

meetings, we prepare them. And

35:40

then we... also very much

35:42

are focused on how we

35:44

actually create value. And I

35:47

think this is something where

35:49

a lot of startups get

35:51

lost in the process. You

35:53

have so many opportunities that

35:56

you can pursue, but you

35:58

actually always need to be

36:00

focused on how do we

36:03

actually create value. Actually wrote

36:05

a LinkedIn post about that

36:07

today. Until today, we don't

36:09

have a... I forgot my

36:12

password button, I need to

36:14

reset password. Because we will

36:16

only build this button when

36:18

the amount of manual request

36:21

for password reset is so

36:23

large that it actually makes

36:25

more sense to build this

36:27

feature. And of course this

36:30

is just a minor thing.

36:32

But if you translate that

36:34

to every single decision in

36:36

your product journey... You just

36:39

get so insanely fast because

36:41

you only need, you only

36:43

build stuff that actually creates

36:46

value. Yeah. That is an

36:48

interesting idea. You can go,

36:50

I'm not too sure how

36:52

I will personally react. When

36:55

I lose a password and

36:57

have to like manual reset

36:59

it, but I'll definitely, even

37:01

though your post is in

37:04

German, I definitely shared here

37:06

in the show notes. Let

37:08

us go a little bit

37:10

into the outlook. I know

37:13

you're still bootstrapped, but imagine

37:15

you would raise funds today.

37:17

How would you allocate them

37:19

to accelerate phonios growth? And...

37:22

What are your most pressing

37:24

priorities there? Okay, so we

37:26

currently have a huge amount

37:29

of investor inbound. From Tier

37:31

1 VCs, from the valley

37:33

to Friends that are angels,

37:35

I think when we would...

37:38

the trigger we'd be able

37:40

to get around within one

37:42

week a significant because there's

37:44

around probably like 50 different

37:47

VCs or angels waiting for

37:49

us to say okay we're

37:51

ready but the reason why

37:53

we're not doing it because

37:56

we don't need the money

37:58

right now so what we're

38:00

doing is since we're growing

38:02

so fast and Matthew and

38:05

I also are putting in

38:07

money to the company we're

38:09

actually trying to create a

38:12

burn. So we're hiring aggressively,

38:14

but we also only want

38:16

top talent. And like, you

38:18

can give me 20 million

38:21

euros today, but I'll still

38:23

need my time to hire

38:25

top talent. Of course, it

38:27

gets a little easier when

38:30

you get more PR coverage,

38:32

etc. But I think it's

38:34

so crucial, especially with the

38:36

first hires you make that

38:39

shape the culture at the

38:41

company that you take your

38:43

time. And you can't really,

38:46

there's no shortcut that this,

38:48

no amount of money. So

38:50

basically what we're doing is

38:52

we're trying to hire aggressively,

38:55

we're trying to create a

38:57

burn, but we are not

38:59

able to create a burn

39:01

at the moment. So our

39:04

goal is we will create

39:06

a burn if it's possible.

39:08

And then Matthew and I

39:10

will still cover the loss

39:13

we're doing for like one,

39:15

two, three, four months. And

39:17

basically give the company more

39:19

debt, or alone, sorry, if

39:22

the company alone. And

39:24

then we basically raise later onwards

39:26

and also use a part of

39:29

that money to cover the loan.

39:31

Because that way we maximize on

39:34

speed, but also equity ownership and

39:36

the valuation of the company. Let

39:38

us talk a little bit about

39:41

the future vision and potential exit

39:43

strategy. We've just been talking about

39:46

a lot about... Fonio because because

39:48

it's a very young company, but

39:50

where would you see it in

39:53

like five years? Imagine also how

39:55

the AI assistant market would evolve?

39:57

Okay, I think like in the

40:00

AI space in general, distribution will

40:02

be everything. You can see like

40:05

we can see it with our

40:07

deaf team like we just get

40:09

faster and faster by the day

40:12

because they're also working with more

40:14

AI tools. So in general I

40:17

think that it will be it

40:19

will get quite easy to build

40:21

products. I think companies need to

40:24

focus on stickiness on how to

40:26

actually keep their customers. This is

40:28

something we're also very focused on.

40:31

And also, I think the one

40:33

who owns the distribution will win.

40:36

Because it's actually like customers of

40:38

ours are already requesting features like,

40:40

hey, could you also have a

40:43

chatbot or email or WhatsApp, etc.

40:45

And if we own the distribution,

40:48

it's then very... easy for us

40:50

to build like more and more

40:52

products towards it and we don't

40:55

have a clear exit strategy. So

40:57

we're building Phony as a sustainable

41:00

company. There could be also a

41:02

scenario where we are the ones

41:04

who acquire different companies. and we

41:07

will just do the thing that

41:09

is most rational. If it's most

41:11

rational that we raise a lot

41:14

of VC money because otherwise our

41:16

odds aren't high that we will

41:19

survive in the market, we'll do

41:21

it. My preferred route is to

41:23

keep as much ownership in the

41:26

company as possible because right now

41:28

we don't need the money. But

41:31

if I see, okay, there's so

41:33

much competition and we will only

41:35

survive if we need to do

41:38

it, we'll do it. If someone

41:40

approaches us and gives us an

41:43

unreasonable amount of money... We'll probably

41:45

also say yes. So we just

41:47

want to build a sustainable and

41:50

rational company. Let's shift a little

41:52

bit to the last few questions

41:54

of our interview because I'm interviewing

41:57

you right now for almost 45

41:59

minutes, which will be cut a

42:02

little bit. less it's it's pretty

42:04

tough interview thank you very much

42:06

for staying here with me lessons

42:09

for future entrepreneurs what one piece

42:11

of advice you wish you had

42:14

received before starting your entrepreneurial journey

42:16

I already talked about this multiple

42:18

times in this podcast I'd say

42:21

focus really obsessed about how you

42:23

create value this is everything like

42:25

really focus on How does my

42:28

customer save money with this? How

42:30

does my customer save time with

42:33

this? How, like, how to actually

42:35

increase the quality of life from

42:37

a customer? This is everything you

42:40

need to focus about. I did

42:42

a lot of mistakes where, like,

42:45

every young entrepreneur that starts out,

42:47

usually starts out by designing a

42:49

logo and finding a name. We

42:52

spent 20 minutes on the name

42:54

Fonio. We were lucky, because it's

42:57

a nice name, I do like

42:59

it. But for us it was

43:01

clear that the name is completely

43:04

irrelevant for our growth. There are

43:06

so many companies out there with

43:08

a shitty name and our billion

43:11

dollar companies. So we just really

43:13

focus on how you create value.

43:16

And I totally assume that would

43:18

be something you wish you had

43:20

learned starting with other companies before.

43:23

Yeah, 100%. I see. Last

43:25

question here. Where could people and potentially investors

43:27

connect with you and learn more about Fonio?

43:30

And I assume pretty soon you'll also need

43:32

to hire a lot of people. Where could

43:34

they learn more? Either on a website or

43:36

find you on LinkedIn. It's just my name

43:38

on LinkedIn. I'll always be happy to chat.

43:40

Everybody who is listening to this or watching

43:42

this go down here in the show notes

43:44

there is a link to our main blog

43:46

post and there you'll of course find a

43:48

link to your LinkedIn profile. Our audience.

43:50

What's one question you would

43:52

ask Daniel? Comment below

43:54

and forward it to

43:57

him. to him. Daniel, thank thank

43:59

you very much. It

44:01

was a pleasure talking

44:03

to you and I

44:05

do believe it was

44:07

a very good interview. I

44:09

I enjoyed a lot.

44:11

Thank you very much. much.

44:13

A lot of fun.

44:15

A lot Have a wonderful

44:17

day. a wonderful day. Bye. You

44:19

Bye Bye-bye. That's

44:24

all folks. Find

44:26

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44:29

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44:31

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