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generational guide to the culture that

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you more about that Join Taylor.

3:52

Yes. There's been

3:54

a lot of millennial

3:57

bashing on TikTok.

4:00

Well, the millennial bashing has

4:02

been going on for, I would say,

4:04

the better part of, I don't know,

4:06

at least five, six, 10 years,

4:08

I guess, right? Yes. The better

4:10

part of a decade. It used

4:13

to be the boomers, it used

4:15

to be the older people that

4:17

had nothing but negative things to

4:19

say about our generation, which

4:22

is pretty normal, usually

4:24

the old generation complaints about

4:26

the younger one. Yes. What

4:28

is less normal is now

4:31

that the younger generation and

4:33

the old generation are both

4:35

complaining about us. And it's, yeah,

4:37

and it's weird because the, none of

4:39

it is quite in step with what's

4:42

actually happening. The older generation

4:44

is still convinced that we're

4:47

young people who eat avocado toast.

4:49

Yeah, I mean, we might, I

4:51

don't think that is our defining

4:53

quality. But I don't know how

4:55

that happened and I will say that

4:58

I know people of all ages

5:00

who enjoy avocado toast

5:02

Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't know

5:04

what I mean we enjoy lots

5:06

of things avocado toast is

5:09

just it's just one of

5:11

them Yeah, but but and then

5:13

the younger generation finds

5:15

us cringe Yes, yes, that

5:17

we're which I guess cringe is

5:20

the new chuggy Yeah, well

5:22

and this was this what we're going

5:24

to do today was partially inspired

5:26

by the trend that is specifically

5:28

Poking fun at the millennial burger

5:30

joint with that horrible. It's a

5:33

fakes It's like the song is

5:35

a parody song that's supposed to

5:37

sound like what millennial music sounds

5:39

like I like look I I

5:41

think it's a hallmark of our

5:43

generation that we're pretty good at

5:45

laughing at ourselves I have no

5:47

problem when someone's got me. I'm like,

5:50

ah, you got me. But every time I see

5:52

one of those, I'm like, this is not, what

5:54

bothers me is it's, I don't, what are

5:56

you making you fun of? One, the song

5:58

isn't from our generation. and it

6:00

doesn't sound like anything we

6:02

do. And this same format is used,

6:05

and it's like, I saw one

6:07

last night that was like, millennial

6:09

conventions, and it was all

6:11

like, the things they were quoting

6:13

was like, nothing but AI generated

6:16

stuff, plastic, 3D printed garbage. I'm

6:18

like, this has all happened

6:21

in the last two years. Our

6:23

generation, no, our generation did not

6:25

use AI and 3D printing. That

6:27

is. We absolutely did not.

6:29

Art cons, artists, artists, alleys

6:31

were still pretty good. No, that's

6:34

the next, that's Gen Z, even

6:36

into, especially if you get to

6:38

AI stuff, you're getting into Gen

6:40

Alpha. Well, and I think that

6:42

the misconception is just anything that's,

6:44

I guess anything that's like, cringy

6:47

or not good, we just call

6:49

millennial now, and it's like, well

6:51

now, all right, words mean things. Yeah,

6:53

exactly. And, and I agree, I

6:55

don't know, I barely understand AI. When

6:57

I was doing those scholarship

7:00

interviews the other weekend, all the kids

7:02

were telling me about how they use AI

7:04

and I was, I didn't want to say

7:06

like, I don't, I actually have no

7:08

context for what you were saying and

7:10

it sounds like gibberish. So if

7:12

you could, you're better than me

7:15

because I think if somebody in

7:17

a scholarship interview said that they use

7:19

AI, I would be like, well, you're

7:21

not getting it, nope. Nope. They use

7:23

it to teach themselves things, things, Tay,

7:25

and I don't. And so I had

7:27

AI teach it to me and now

7:30

I understand it. And, right? And

7:32

like, they say that and I'm

7:34

like, I know what all those

7:36

words meant and I'm still, like,

7:38

did you Google it and then

7:41

just read the AI generated paragraph?

7:43

Anyway, I'm getting off topic.

7:45

Yeah. We are not the AI

7:47

generation clearly. If what I

7:50

just said is not enough evidence

7:52

for you. No, no. Where are the

7:54

generation that made all of the art

7:56

and info and content and stuff

7:59

that ate... I scraped and

8:01

is now using to take, well

8:03

not our jobs because we

8:06

never had those jobs. So

8:08

you take the next generation's

8:10

job. Your AI is the

8:13

millennial brain. So we

8:15

are going to, this

8:17

is a full-throated defense

8:19

of millennials. Listen. I'm

8:21

not going to say we're

8:24

perfect. No. But we're also not

8:26

that bad. And a lot of

8:28

the stuff that you make fun

8:30

of, you also really love. I'm

8:32

looking at you young people. You have

8:34

adopted so much of our culture.

8:36

And whether you know it or not.

8:38

And listen, when you say 90s, you

8:41

know, I think that's part of it

8:43

today. A lot of what we're

8:45

about to talk about. We're going

8:47

to do the top five contributions

8:49

of millennials. Yes. A lot of

8:52

what we're talking about is what you

8:54

call 90s. Well, that's millennials.

8:57

So Gen X was there at

8:59

the very very beginning, but

9:01

you know They were but they

9:03

were like like if you

9:06

think about it with millennials

9:08

start in 1980 right technically.

9:11

Yeah, we're born in 80 So I

9:13

mean Most of us were

9:15

around 10-ish entering the 90s 10

9:17

to 20 years old. Those are

9:19

like the prime You know

9:22

culture-making years, right?

9:24

Absolutely. So there you go

9:26

That's us. Yeah, Gen X was

9:28

up in there and I know I've

9:30

kind of fallen to that

9:33

weird sort of like Zennial

9:35

mixed generation Little micro

9:37

thing, but anyway, I'm

9:39

a millennial for this episode

9:42

I choose to be elder

9:44

millennials we're both in

9:46

that category. We're both elder

9:48

millennials. Oh, don't say elder.

9:50

Oh, I like it. I feel

9:52

like I get a robe and a hat

9:55

and a wand We're going to start off

9:57

easy, we're going to talk about fashion. I think this

9:59

is the easiest... sell as a contribution

10:01

to, to, I don't know, modern

10:03

culture, to the culture of people

10:06

who poke fun at us. Yes.

10:08

Let me start off by saying,

10:10

millennials gave you all sizes

10:13

of jeans that you may

10:15

need. Yeah, everybody always focuses

10:17

down on the skinny jeans,

10:19

which even when we were

10:21

wearing them, it was only

10:23

a very specific demographic that

10:26

wore them. Like it was. You know,

10:28

your clothes kind of signaled what you

10:30

were into. Whereas now, I think it's

10:32

kind of funny to me that, you know,

10:34

you'll have kids that look very like

10:36

punk or alt or whatever, and

10:38

they're just buying what's on the,

10:40

what's popular, like this nirvana shirt

10:43

for funcies. And it's a little

10:45

bit more acceptable. That was not,

10:47

you, you dressed to tell people

10:49

who you were and what you were into.

10:51

And the skinny jeans were a very specific

10:53

type of person. That was like the

10:56

indie. into the into the

10:58

punk but not quite like

11:00

that was sort of where that

11:02

was I perhaps I could

11:04

offer the wezer fan yeah oh

11:06

I mean yes you're the iconic

11:08

wezer fan the skinny jeans

11:11

the one size too small

11:13

or possibly bought in

11:15

youth-sized t-shirt could be

11:17

a band shirt could also

11:20

just be an ironic thrifted

11:22

shirt that was well as well

11:24

as well as Usually

11:26

of course, said you still

11:28

rock them, the Chuck Taylor's,

11:30

but you could also opt

11:32

for a Doc Martin. Sure.

11:34

Yeah. Yeah. No, that and that,

11:37

that was the style, the

11:39

millennial style that I sort

11:41

of like lashed onto and

11:43

it has never died. And

11:45

I will say like, I am

11:47

seeing the skinny jeans out there

11:50

again today. I see that fashion, so

11:52

I don't pretend like it went

11:54

away forever. It didn't go away

11:56

forever. I do think it's interesting,

11:59

tay, because... We talked about like

12:01

early, early millennial was more

12:03

the giant jeans, the like classic.

12:05

We talked about the jinko jeans,

12:07

the big wide leg stripes and

12:10

chains and you know, it was

12:12

kind of skater culture sort of.

12:14

Well, but those were, those coexisted.

12:16

Like in high school, I was

12:18

of the skinny jeans variety and

12:20

they were the big pant variety

12:22

at the same time. You know,

12:24

I would compare it to like the.

12:26

the, you know, the mods and, and

12:28

punks back in the, in the 70s.

12:30

Like, they were two very popular

12:33

fashion styles that represented

12:35

two different ideologies, two

12:38

different music fandoms, and

12:40

you dressed according to your

12:42

code. But I want to say too,

12:44

there's, this is a, I think

12:47

this doesn't get as much recognition.

12:49

Maybe millennial fashion is all about jeans

12:51

is what I'm beginning to wonder. Is

12:53

it just about denim? This is a

12:55

big part of millennial fashion is the

12:57

kind of like being defined by the

12:59

kind of jeans you wore clearly. Well,

13:01

there's a third thing, a third gene

13:04

type I feel like we need that

13:06

has been reintroduced into the

13:08

cultural conversation by Kendrick Lamar.

13:10

Did you see his Super Bowl

13:12

performance? I did, but I don't. Okay,

13:14

he was wearing the jeans that I think

13:17

we forget. I think we forget. But

13:19

I will tell you, especially like

13:21

girls in high school when I

13:23

was graduating. So we're talking late

13:25

90s, early 2000s, especially early 2000s.

13:28

We wore the sort of bell bottom.

13:30

It weren't bell bottom in that

13:32

sense, but you know what I mean?

13:34

The flare jeans. So like tighter at

13:36

the top. And then I guess boot

13:38

cut, except it was a little big,

13:41

like boot cut just means a little

13:43

wider at the bottom. These were definitely

13:45

wider than that. But I'm not talking about

13:47

wide leg all the way down. So I think

13:49

flare is the right term, but you got

13:52

to know, I mean really, if you saw,

13:54

if you saw Kendrick Lamar, those were the

13:56

genes. Those were the genes that were kind

13:58

of like the basic gene that most... people

14:00

had a pair of in high school

14:02

in my era. Well, and that was

14:05

often paired with another important element

14:07

of the genes of our

14:09

generation, the low rise, the

14:12

ultra low rise, like that was

14:14

very much a late 90s, early,

14:16

early 2000s thing. The ultra low

14:18

rise, flared jeans, so they're

14:20

like, so every time you like

14:22

crouched down or bend over

14:24

anything, danger, like butt crack

14:27

crack is gonna show. but also

14:29

the hallmark where those jeans would

14:31

drag the ground when you walked

14:33

and so the back of your

14:35

jeans like the around your heel

14:38

and your Achilles area were

14:40

usually dirty and torn like kind

14:42

of frayed and shredded from walking

14:45

on the back of it and

14:47

then if there was any weather

14:49

soaking wet and the wetness would

14:51

seep up halfway up your leg

14:54

and so like walking around high

14:56

school with your the bottom of your

14:58

gene soaked up to like mid calf was

15:00

just standard like for like there were a

15:02

bunch of us who just did that and

15:04

like we didn't question is this a good

15:06

idea we just did it and I like

15:08

it it was a wild when I look

15:10

back I think man those were so uncomfortable

15:12

I'm not saying they looked bad this is

15:14

nothing to do with how they look but

15:16

like they were crazy uncomfortable and then when

15:19

they got wet obviously they probably didn't look

15:21

good But maybe they'll make a comeback.

15:23

Clearly you all like them. Well, the

15:25

low-rise thing is coming back because they

15:27

also did the high, I mean, the

15:30

high-wasted was sort of a later into

15:32

the 2000s, kind of a, I think that

15:34

coincided with sort of the hipster

15:36

style. That's where it sort of

15:38

started, you know, the kind of like, like,

15:41

old, the granny look that was popular

15:43

that kind of came, you know, like

15:45

the other thrifted look that brought back a

15:47

lot of that brought back a lot of

15:49

that. Oh yeah, a whole cultural conversation

15:52

happening just with our pants

15:54

because I could say I

15:56

could put the pants on

15:58

what kind of kid. you

16:00

know you had like the alt

16:02

the punk kids the the sort

16:04

of nerd rockers that were the

16:06

skinny jeans you had the like

16:08

metal kids and then specifically like

16:10

the new metal kids that wore

16:12

the big the giant pants and

16:14

the low-rise flares those were kind

16:16

of for the normies those were the

16:19

like the the pretty girls wore the

16:21

the low-rise flares they did and

16:23

I and the thing is I mean, for

16:25

a lot of us, you know, during

16:27

those years of our life, we're trying

16:29

to figure out what we are. And

16:31

so I owned all of those jeans

16:33

and wore them at different times. And

16:35

I think that kind of gets to

16:37

what is at the core of a

16:39

lot of why millennial fashion persists

16:42

today, is that it's so much

16:44

about expressing who you are

16:46

as an individual and telling people

16:48

about you, differentiating yourself,

16:50

making people why you're unique

16:52

or whatever. and less about

16:55

the appropriateness for the

16:57

space you're in. So my dirty jeans

16:59

are dragging the ground and I'm

17:01

walking, you know, in someone's business,

17:04

but I don't care because these

17:06

dirty jeans are dragging the ground

17:08

are telling you who I am.

17:10

I'm making a statement about myself

17:12

and that's more important than whether

17:15

or not I'm dressed appropriately

17:17

for work. And I really

17:19

think that's persisted. I mean, I see it

17:22

in myself. I refuse to... Where what

17:24

I think they would like me to where

17:26

it work. I get away with stuff I'm

17:28

not saying I don't follow a drug like

17:30

I fall close enough I get away with

17:32

stuff because it's important to me that I

17:34

am telling people who I am And I

17:37

don't know that I've even thought about that

17:39

until we've talked about it today Well,

17:41

that's that's a very big shift specifically

17:43

with like you know when you're a

17:46

kid it's a bit more normal to

17:48

experiment I mean every generation you experiment

17:50

with fashion you you know you go

17:52

back through history and there's always the

17:55

look that goes along with any sort

17:57

of alternative culture has a style but I

17:59

feel like bringing it into the

18:01

workplace, bringing it into adulthood,

18:04

you know, that was, at some point you're

18:06

supposed to, or at least we were

18:08

told we were supposed to, put it

18:10

all down, and yeah, become an adult.

18:12

And that, that I don't, you know, I

18:15

don't want to work in a place

18:17

that doesn't allow my individuality, or I

18:19

don't want to, like, I feel more

18:21

comfortable at a, at a place, like,

18:24

at a restaurant or a cafe, where

18:26

the people that work there feel like

18:29

individuals. you know, people

18:31

about just uniforms. That,

18:33

that idea outside of the

18:35

specific elements of clothing,

18:38

I think was sort of

18:40

embraced and pushed out by

18:42

our generation. I think you're right.

18:44

I think Gen X started to

18:47

ask the question, is this

18:49

really how we should do

18:51

things? And I think millennials

18:53

were the one to step

18:55

up and answer it. Nah.

18:57

Probably not. And then we would

18:59

say something random and

19:02

walk away. Moving on

19:04

to the second contribution

19:07

that we've made to culture.

19:10

We're going to talk about

19:12

the media of today and

19:14

how we made that. I was

19:16

thinking about how

19:18

many cartoons, like the

19:20

kind of cartoons that

19:23

adults and kids can

19:25

both enjoy. that have like

19:28

kind of deeper messages if you want

19:30

to look for them. That's not

19:32

the kind of cartoons that we

19:34

necessarily grew up with. You know, there

19:37

was maybe a joke thrown in here and

19:39

there, like when we were like kid kids,

19:41

you know, the cartoons that were made

19:43

by the adults before us, there might

19:45

be a joke here there for, you

19:47

know, for the adults in the room.

19:49

But it was mainly made like your

19:51

kid, here's the dumb down media that's

19:54

okay for kids. And then they you

19:56

know you had like Gen X with

19:58

like the adult cartoons all of the

20:00

television and rent and sympathy and all

20:02

the stuff that felt like ooh we're

20:05

not supposed to watch this but our

20:07

generation kind of merged that in hey we

20:09

can have things that all ages can

20:11

enjoy can be appropriate for kids

20:13

that adults could enjoy and we

20:16

could take our characters and our

20:18

stories seriously because kids you know

20:20

what we're considered a stunted generation

20:22

that never grew up but hey a

20:25

benefit of that is we're really good

20:27

at knowing what will actually make

20:29

kids happy and the emotional

20:31

and intellect level that kids

20:33

can handle and We can make

20:35

content for that Well, and I

20:37

think I think it speaks to children

20:40

in a new way And then I

20:42

think the other part of it is

20:44

that it's recognizing the pieces of us

20:46

which I mean that this sort of

20:48

the theme of all these things the

20:50

pieces of us that don't Age right that

20:52

we can pretend like they do and

20:54

we can dress ourselves up like

20:56

like we're all grown up, but there are

20:58

parts of us that are so, you know,

21:00

impacted by our youth, that they

21:03

cling, I mean, they're still there.

21:05

There's, I mean, we've been talking

21:07

about the concept of the inner

21:09

child for how many decades as

21:11

a, for a good reason, because

21:13

your kid, you, your kid you, is

21:15

still in there. And I think that

21:17

the media that, when you think

21:19

about cartoons like Stephen Universe

21:21

and stuff, I enjoy it as

21:23

an adult. I'm not just watching

21:25

it and thinking like, oh, this

21:28

is something I can. You know my kids

21:30

like it, and I guess it's it's

21:32

pretty good so I can watch along

21:34

with them I'm enjoying it I'm I'm

21:36

enjoying this Because it is speaking to

21:38

that that is eternal to those aspects

21:40

of yourself as a child that you

21:42

don't want to lose when you're an

21:44

adult And I think that the generations

21:46

before us said well you have to

21:48

or at least suppress them push them

21:50

deep down inside and never address them.

21:52

And we said, no, we're going to

21:54

continue to embrace those pieces and you

21:56

see it when you watch Gravity Falls.

21:58

You see it. I would say... when I

22:00

watch Bluey with my children today, I'm

22:02

seeing that. I'm seeing that. I'm seeing

22:04

that. Like, I know what you're talking

22:07

about because it's eternal, because it doesn't

22:09

go away, and I don't have to

22:11

pretend that it did go away to be

22:13

an adult. I feel like Adventure Time is

22:16

kind of the, one of just like

22:18

the iconic, like what do we

22:20

mean by like millennial animation? Like

22:22

this is it. There they're parts of

22:24

it that even as an adult like

22:26

I'm not quite sure what they're trying

22:28

to say but it feels important like

22:30

there's a lot of that there that

22:32

but then you know kids today it's

22:34

still you could put it on and

22:36

they'll enjoy it and I think that's

22:39

really beautiful Yeah, and and I know

22:41

we're mainly focusing on I mean man

22:43

I feel like we could talk about

22:45

things like cartoons and movies because I

22:48

think it's really interesting when I watch

22:50

something now, I can kind of

22:52

tell if it was made by

22:54

somebody from our generation. Like I

22:57

feel it. And I think it's

22:59

this common thread that we're

23:01

talking about of, you know, this,

23:03

it really is, the boomer saw

23:05

it as a refusal to grow

23:08

up, that we would not mature

23:10

and grow up. And I don't

23:12

think it's that simple. It's more

23:14

nuanced. It's, I grew up, but

23:16

I decided not to... abandon

23:19

everything that I was before

23:21

I grew up. I decided to carry

23:24

some of it on with me. And

23:26

that is a, I think that is

23:28

a very distinct voice

23:31

in movies and cartoons and

23:33

TV that when I see

23:35

it today, I immediately, I hear

23:37

it. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying

23:39

to think of, I was trying

23:41

to like, I don't know what I

23:44

think of like, iconic movies

23:46

from a generation I always

23:48

think of like I like

23:50

Juno or Napoleon dynamite or

23:52

like Garden State and they're

23:54

all kind of like they're

23:56

very human stories you know they're

23:59

they're very like all of

24:01

the all of those movies are

24:03

a little there's silliness there's sort

24:05

of smallness the characters

24:08

are very small very kind of

24:10

there's a pathetic a recognition

24:12

of being a little bit

24:14

pathetic as the human condition

24:17

that is very heartfelt it's

24:19

a lack of bluster which again I

24:21

think was was interpreted by

24:23

boomers as being like immature

24:26

No, we don't have the bravado that

24:28

is supposed to come with adulthood.

24:30

And that's because I think it's a question

24:33

of whether any of that is real. I

24:35

don't know. I mean, it really echoes. I

24:37

look around myself every day. I'm in my

24:39

40s. I should be part of the people

24:42

who like... Am I the man now right

24:44

and I don't mean the man like

24:46

cool I mean like the man you

24:48

know like I'm an adult now I

24:50

am the establishment by my age I

24:52

don't think I do that with my

24:54

job but whatever the point is I'm

24:56

looking around waiting for where are all

24:58

the answers I'm supposed to have where's

25:00

this like you know all knowing sense

25:02

of rightness and what to do

25:05

next. When does that happen? And

25:07

I'm realizing that it doesn't. And

25:09

I'm realizing that no one else

25:11

around me has that either. And

25:13

then I start looking at the people

25:15

older than me and thinking, you don't

25:17

have it either. None of you ever

25:19

had it. It was all a facade.

25:21

No one ever knew what they were

25:23

doing. Well, and I, you know, we're

25:25

going to get into this with some

25:27

of our other topics, but I think

25:29

that when you're told, hey, this is

25:31

what you're supposed, this is

25:33

how life is supposed to go, and

25:36

this is what you're supposed to

25:38

want from life, and if those

25:40

things happen very easily, you'll

25:42

just go along with it. But when

25:45

those things suddenly become hard,

25:47

if not impossible, you

25:49

have this moment of like, do I

25:51

even want that? What if I

25:53

don't want that? What if

25:56

I do something else? You

25:58

know? I mean, for... Obviously

26:00

mainly for worse but somewhat

26:02

for better growing up and I

26:05

think the financial climate we

26:07

grew up in and having so

26:09

much off the table for us it's

26:11

like well if it's that hard to

26:13

have 2.5 kids a house and a

26:15

steady serious office job and it

26:18

sounds miserable maybe it's fine

26:20

that it didn't work out

26:22

for me maybe you know I can do

26:24

my own thing yeah all right Tay we've

26:26

still got three more things to

26:28

talk about All right. But before

26:30

we do that, the group message is

26:32

so special today. Because as we

26:35

said at the beginning of the

26:37

show, it is Max Fund Drive.

26:39

Maximfun.org/join. I say it over and

26:41

over again. This is another mark

26:43

of our generation. I have a

26:45

bad brain for URLs. I have

26:47

to say them over and over

26:50

again. I feel like young people

26:52

can just rattle them off, no

26:54

problem. And I can't. Anyway, Maximfun.org/join. you

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once a year again we come

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to you and we ask you

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are a donor supported network that's

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on the network has been creating bonus

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stuff, right? It's not just our typical

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episodes. it's usually something a

28:01

little more unique something

28:03

a little more out of pocket is

28:06

that using it the way the kids

28:08

use it today that it's at $10

28:10

that is it did I use it

28:12

appropriately okay at $10 a month

28:14

you get one of our 42

28:16

enamel pens each one associated with

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one of our shows ours is

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super cute this year you can

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go and you can check them

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out they're so colorful we've got

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like a very Lisa Frank looking

28:28

vibe to all of our stuff, all of

28:30

our Max Fund drive stuff this year.

28:32

It looks so cool, but there's a

28:34

discman for still buffering. If you don't

28:37

know what a discman is, I'm sure

28:39

they'll come back, don't worry, you'll figure

28:41

it out. They're vintage now. But that's

28:43

at the $10 month. Exactly,

28:45

they're vintage, yes. The CDs, have

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you heard of this? And you

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can pick which one you enjoy.

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Ours is super cute, but there's

28:54

tons there. And obviously you get

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the boko as well. At $20

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a month, you get to pick,

29:01

do you want a beach for

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the Stars Tao? So it's again,

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very cute, very, you've got a

29:08

unicorn and it's very colorful. Or

29:10

there's a bucket hat with our

29:12

bucket hat. of, well, maybe that's

29:14

Gen X. Maybe Gen X gave us

29:17

the bucket hat. It's a crossover event.

29:19

Yeah, we'll let you. Gen X, you can

29:21

have the bucket hat. Take it. Take it.

29:24

But listeners, you can have the bucket

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29:51

a place right in a place right now.

29:54

but i do want to kick a few

29:56

extra dollars to these creators uh...

29:58

shows then you can do that

30:00

whatever you can do helps us

30:02

it helps us make these shows

30:04

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30:06

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30:10

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30:15

think as as things appear to

30:17

get more serious in our in

30:19

our country right now like remembering

30:21

to preserve art and creation and

30:23

making things I think is really

30:25

it's really vital and so we

30:27

will keep doing it and if

30:29

you can support us while we

30:32

do it man we sure appreciate

30:34

it. Taylor I do you have

30:36

anything you would like to say

30:38

about what our donors over the

30:40

years and what our members have

30:42

have meant to you. Oh yeah

30:44

I mean I'm one of those

30:46

those obnoxious millennials that refuse to

30:48

give up on my dreams so

30:50

I'm still you know I pay

30:53

my dues and pay my bills

30:55

with a food service job because

30:57

that's what I could get but

30:59

I also do still make art

31:01

and boy having the podcast has

31:03

kept me my head above water

31:05

many a time be it through

31:07

COVID when my entire industry shut

31:09

down you know between jobs anyone

31:12

that works at a restaurant no

31:14

it's not always the most dependable

31:16

paycheck and the ability to make

31:18

literally any, and if you have

31:20

ever purchased art from me, anything

31:22

that I've had time to make,

31:24

I've had that time because of

31:26

the little bit of wiggle room

31:28

that this podcast gives me. And

31:30

I will always be grateful for

31:33

that. I am, it is, I

31:35

don't know where I'd be if

31:37

it hadn't saved my butt. Many

31:39

times over the last few years,

31:41

so I am grateful to all

31:43

of you who have Who have

31:45

provided that that safety net for

31:47

me Thank you, Jay, and thank

31:49

you listeners We love you whether

31:52

or not you donate of course

31:54

we love you and we hope

31:56

you enjoy what we do If

31:58

and if you are in a

32:00

position to become a member Thank

32:02

you, thank you, maximum of fun.org/join,

32:04

do it well, it's on your

32:06

mind because if you're like me,

32:08

there'll be something else in there

32:10

in 30 seconds and then it's

32:13

too late. Thank you. All right,

32:15

Tay, do we want to move

32:17

on to number three? Yeah, we

32:19

had music as well in our

32:21

second group. We didn't really talk

32:23

about it, which is a pretty

32:25

big element of culture, but, oh

32:27

yeah. I mean, I

32:30

feel like it's, anything you want

32:32

to say, I mean, well, anything

32:34

you want to point out specifically.

32:36

I mean, I think that, you

32:38

know, a lot of, a lot

32:40

of the music that is, is

32:42

popular or has come back now,

32:45

like today is, I mean, it's,

32:47

it's wild to see young people

32:49

be into bands like my chemical

32:51

romance or Green Day. And it's

32:53

like, well, that was, that was

32:55

us, that was 100% us. Yeah.

32:58

And I think that those you

33:00

know those are those bands specifically

33:02

I mean that's you know I

33:04

can only speak for the kind

33:06

of music that I listen to

33:08

you but like on this theme

33:10

of you know kind of earnest

33:13

and being being in touch with

33:15

our emotions in our inner child

33:17

those those bands are two examples

33:19

of like big big feels like

33:21

they're dramatic and performative and kind

33:23

of ostentatious and not not at

33:25

all afraid to be any of

33:28

those things you know there was

33:30

definitely like the hipster ironic movement

33:32

that happened never goes away unfortunately

33:34

but those were bands that stood

33:36

opposite to that you know like

33:38

I remember it was like you

33:41

should be a little bit ashamed

33:43

of listening to these bands when

33:45

we were young by that sort

33:47

of way too cool ironic crowd

33:49

but they were some of my

33:51

favorites favorites. which to be fair

33:53

like I think you could say

33:56

even though it wasn't really exactly

33:58

what we were into there is

34:00

there is a joy in some

34:02

of the just like sparkly pop

34:04

that came out you know especially

34:06

in the early 2000s that I

34:08

mean I think we can still

34:11

celebrate there is joy to be

34:13

found in fluffy pop songs and

34:15

I will sing along to boy

34:17

bands when anytime and I mean

34:19

I don't think we can deny

34:21

the fact that like Brittany Spears

34:24

made some really good music. Oh

34:26

no absolutely. And well, and I

34:28

was also like, even the, you

34:30

know, the kind of college radio

34:32

music that people continue to define

34:34

themselves by like the music they're

34:36

into, the media they're into, well

34:39

into adulthood, going to sort of

34:41

along with our theme. That was

34:43

a big influence that I think

34:45

continues now that like, you know,

34:47

maybe our parents didn't quite experience

34:49

that. That and I will say

34:51

I think that's it's funny you

34:54

talk about even to now There's

34:56

an S&L sketch that I loved

34:58

a couple years ago with Matt

35:00

Damon and Leslie Jones arguing about

35:02

Weiser and they're both like adults

35:04

adults at a dinner party arguing

35:06

about what was the best Weiser

35:09

album because even as adults like

35:11

and everyone else is trying to

35:13

figure out like does anyone still

35:15

care about this and it's like

35:17

if you're a Wezer fan you

35:19

understand that if if you're team

35:22

blue and somebody wants to start

35:24

fighting with you about Pinkerton about

35:26

Pinkerton you're always ready to, you

35:28

know, you're always ready to start

35:30

that fight. Well, pink versus blue

35:32

will be like a little squabble,

35:34

but then somebody brings up the

35:37

green album and then, then that's,

35:39

whoa. Chuck Taylor started flying in

35:41

every direction. The planel's coming off.

35:43

But, so let, we got a

35:45

lot to cover. Yeah, let's talk

35:47

about. millennials I think are the

35:49

generation when we started making craft

35:52

things the artisanal generation. Yes well

35:54

and you know this is kind

35:56

of there's a there's a history

35:58

lesson in it. this because that

36:00

can seem like kind of an

36:02

audacious statement like what do you

36:05

mean everybody's always made things forever

36:07

yes but and where this is

36:09

very America-centric just all of this

36:11

is obviously I don't even know

36:13

if other countries are so naval

36:15

gazing about their own generations I'm

36:17

not sure but boy are we

36:20

you know you know like post

36:22

World War two like up through

36:24

like the 50s and 60s this

36:26

idea of like automation of like

36:28

making fast food making things fast

36:30

having thing instant TV dinners this

36:32

was like the new technology of

36:35

the time that was very fascinating

36:37

and this idea of just making

36:39

things more and more streamlined no

36:41

more slaving in the kitchen no

36:43

more you know having to to

36:45

I don't know have people make

36:48

things for you you can just

36:50

just everything's automated everything's instant that

36:52

kind of took the the hands-on

36:54

culture away from us for a

36:56

while because that was that was

36:58

novel that's what we were all

37:00

into and then you see this

37:03

reaction to that starting in like

37:05

the really in the 90s but

37:07

embraced by the mid to late

37:09

90s and early 2000s yeah where

37:11

I mean I think that what

37:13

people started to realize is that

37:15

the ultimate luxury isn't To have

37:18

machines that do everything for you

37:20

so you never have to do

37:22

anything I mean I because I

37:24

do think and I mean I

37:26

know that sounds like really reductive

37:28

But I do think for a

37:30

while that was the way culture

37:33

was moving and then I think

37:35

what was paired with that was

37:37

sort of like the capitalistic How

37:39

like height of the 80s where

37:41

you were so busy grinding and

37:43

I guess doing coke that you

37:46

weren't you didn't have time to

37:48

make things so we made the

37:50

shift from beer being all sort

37:52

of like not great American logger

37:54

to really excellent like local craft

37:56

beers. That's our generation. Our generation

37:58

led that like There you

38:01

can get even in Huntington. I remember

38:03

there was a time where we had

38:05

to drive to Ashland, Kentucky to get

38:08

anything outside of like your standard millers

38:10

and buds and you know Corona maybe

38:12

It was it was it was only

38:15

in our generation where we could find

38:17

anything else in the grocery store in

38:19

the local liquor store. Yeah Well that

38:22

I mean that's specifically when we talk

38:24

about like beer and like spirits I

38:26

mean those We're going to talk about

38:29

the government and how it, you know,

38:31

is tied into big corporations that rob

38:33

us of wealth, but also of like

38:36

quality. That's a post prohibition. Well, during

38:38

prohibition, only select companies got contracts to

38:40

stay open distilleries and breweries, and wouldn't

38:43

you know it, those were the companies

38:45

that had connections, either two people in

38:47

Congress or were owned by people in

38:50

Congress. Like, so they limp, they erased

38:52

the playing field because pre-prohibition. Every town

38:54

would have a brewery and a distillery.

38:57

Local craft brews was sewn into the

38:59

fabric of America, going back to the

39:01

colonies. So that was, you know, the

39:04

idea that like, that was always part

39:06

of our culture. It was lost. We

39:08

didn't create it. We brought it back.

39:11

And if you've grown up, you know,

39:13

if you're in your 20s now, it's

39:15

wild to think, but you grow up,

39:18

always having, always being able to go

39:20

to the bar and have a nice

39:22

cocktail, always being able to go get

39:25

a craft beer. Don't know how bad

39:27

it was. No, that wasn't true at

39:29

all. I mean, it really, I remember

39:31

making the shift from like Miller Light

39:34

was my beer for, I mean, well

39:36

into my college years, like beyond my

39:38

college years. I mean, it was much

39:41

later that we got good stuff and

39:43

it was because people from our generation

39:45

were bringing that back. Taylor, as you've

39:48

referenced before, millennials made pickles great. Yeah,

39:50

well, and this is gonna, I mean,

39:52

this is. I think there's a bigger

39:55

reason we really did go hard on

39:57

pickles. But you know I I feel

39:59

like part of it was driven by

40:02

necessity in that, you know, I'm one

40:04

of those people that, look, I went

40:06

to college on loans, I graduated top

40:09

of my class, I had an elite

40:11

internship at DC Comics that was unpaid,

40:13

and after I graduated, like, I had

40:16

to make money, I had to support

40:18

myself. There were no jobs available, however

40:20

qualified I was, however, whatever accolades I

40:23

collected. I got a I mean I

40:25

worked as a as a waiter all

40:27

through college but I that was the

40:30

only job that paid me so I

40:32

stayed in the food service field and

40:34

a lot of people I mean I

40:37

graduated 2008 so this was the crash

40:39

that was the year that everything went

40:41

to crap many of my peers did

40:44

the same thing we went into food

40:46

service we we became those baristas that

40:48

care too much about coffee we became

40:51

the you know the cooks that got

40:53

obsessed with you know molecular gastronomy the

40:55

people that brought back those distillers and

40:58

those breweries and cocktail culture. I think

41:00

that's because you had a lot of

41:02

people that went into these fields and

41:05

just decided, yeah, this is what I'm

41:07

gonna do with my life. I'm gonna

41:09

do it to the best of my

41:12

ability. You know, like I know as

41:14

a creative person, I felt like I

41:16

have to be creative. So I just

41:19

have to find a way to make

41:21

this job interesting to me. I have

41:23

to find a way to enjoy this.

41:26

And I think I think part of

41:28

it is is that it's like serving

41:30

that own that your own need to

41:33

create and I think the other part

41:35

of that was that people respond to

41:37

that because all the sudden Your meal

41:40

is not about getting food in you

41:42

so you can like take the quickest

41:44

lunch break possible and get back to

41:47

your job It was culture shifting to

41:49

I'm gonna sit down and enjoy I

41:51

mean that's what like brunch brunch came

41:54

to light. We created brunch right Wow,

41:56

we I don't know we created it,

41:58

but boy did we love it. We

42:00

perfected it. And it was because, you

42:03

know, it's a shift on how we

42:05

enjoy life. We don't live to... work.

42:07

Yeah. You know, we work to live

42:10

and part of that is we start

42:12

making things that will make your, you

42:14

know, like you can go to a

42:17

restaurant and you enjoy this in a

42:19

new way. And we get, I think

42:21

there's, you get so teased in millennial

42:24

culture for like the bespoke things. Right.

42:26

But it's about taking the time and

42:28

using your skills to make something specific

42:31

for you as a show of love

42:33

and skill and connection and like there's

42:35

so much more to it than like

42:38

I want one that's just for me

42:40

which I think is exactly how like

42:42

generations before us might interpret that because

42:45

they see everything that was society it

42:47

was I want I want I want

42:49

I want more for me and it

42:52

was a very you know self-serving kind

42:54

of view and our and like millennials

42:56

started to open that up and say

42:59

well no I'm doing this as a

43:01

show of love for you it's why

43:03

I crocheted this why I cooked this

43:06

why I you know Decopage this whatever

43:08

which is funny because when you look

43:10

at like older cultures in the world

43:13

I mean Around the world the idea

43:15

of like making good high quality Goods,

43:17

but you know in the food just

43:20

talking about food like making good food

43:22

enjoying a meal sitting down and enjoying

43:24

how to judge quality that is a

43:27

attribute to all of the cultures that

43:29

you know we want to look up

43:31

to like that's that's a thing that

43:34

you should aspire to is that you

43:36

have local culture that is cared for

43:38

and embraced and encouraged and encouraged and

43:41

that is something that I don't know

43:43

I don't that that's something that we

43:45

care about which I mean I think

43:48

before we move on to the next

43:50

thing because I know we're running low

43:52

on time it I do think when

43:55

we talk about the original inspiration for

43:57

this, the millennial burger joint. We're kind

43:59

of getting into a lot of this

44:02

here. I'm going to make you a

44:04

burger and I know that you could

44:06

buy this cheaper and quicker somewhere else,

44:09

but it's going... to be delicious because

44:11

I put a ton of time into

44:13

exactly what this burger is and it

44:16

doesn't have to be a burger, but

44:18

replicate that and you get a lot

44:20

of millennial restaurant culture. I'm going to

44:23

do this thing for you and I'm

44:25

going to do it really well. And

44:27

it's not going to be necessarily the

44:29

fanciest. It's that I'm going to be

44:32

thoughtful about each piece of it and

44:34

put, you know, the decoration and the

44:36

drinks and the menu and the chairs

44:39

and the vibe is going to be

44:41

about creating an fast and cheap versus

44:43

slow and fancy, you know. Well, the

44:46

the millennial burger thing, that reminded me

44:48

of, you know, we discussed the cake

44:50

thing and it's sort of. isolated, the

44:53

two are both just kind of funny

44:55

and whatever on their own. But then

44:57

when you look at it both together,

45:00

I'm like, uh-oh, wait, this is bad.

45:02

Because we have, ugh, you know, why

45:04

would I pay $50 to a home

45:07

baker when I can spend $20 at

45:09

Walmart? Why would I, when I can

45:11

go to McDonald's and get a $2

45:14

sandwich? Why would I pay $10 at

45:16

a nice burger place? It's like, well,

45:18

because you're supporting local businesses, you're you're

45:21

supporting a culture that is your neighbors

45:23

and the fabric of your community. And

45:25

it's really bad that the younger generation

45:28

is really a huge fan of big

45:30

corporations. Like pull back and look at

45:32

what you're saying. Look at what these

45:35

two have in common. They benefit McDonald's

45:37

and Walmart. Come on. Well, and I

45:39

think this moves in really easily to

45:42

like, and maybe we've kind of overlapped

45:44

it. Our fourth. area which is I

45:46

think this led into what what persists

45:49

today as kind of like the DIY

45:51

movement the idea that like I don't

45:53

want to pay somebody to do this

45:56

for me I want to do it

45:58

for myself you know and part of

46:00

that is like I can't afford to

46:03

pay somebody to do it for me

46:05

I mean there's there's more than That's

46:07

one of the other things that I've

46:10

seen skewered with that same obnoxious song

46:12

is millennial weddings And it's all just

46:14

like weddings that have like twinkle lights

46:17

and they're in a barn and You

46:19

know you can tell that somebody made

46:21

those flower arrangements by hands Maybe everybody's

46:24

drinking out of mason jars instead of

46:26

you know fine crystal and It's cheap.

46:28

That's it. I've gone to a lot

46:31

of weddings like that because you can

46:33

afford that wedding I do think I

46:35

think And that's I think it's important

46:38

to remember a lot of these things

46:40

are driven by economic pressures absolutely I

46:42

think the flip side of that though

46:45

was that all the sudden we our

46:47

generation realized I can look online and

46:49

find out how to do so many

46:52

things that I don't know how to

46:54

do I can teach myself and so

46:56

that movement to like I'll find the

46:58

information myself I'll watch the YouTube videos

47:01

on my own. Like, you know what?

47:03

I want to know how to fix

47:05

this thing in my house or in

47:08

my car or in my apartment. I

47:10

want to know how to do that

47:12

for myself. I don't want somebody else.

47:15

I want to learn how to cook

47:17

for myself. I want to learn how

47:19

to bake bread. I want to learn

47:22

how to do these things. And part

47:24

of it is because I can't afford

47:26

to pay somebody to do it for

47:29

me, but the other part is the

47:31

satisfaction of being more self-sufficient, which I

47:33

think flies in the face of what

47:36

older generations have complained about millennials, which

47:38

is that they're all children still. Well,

47:40

but they have sets of skills that

47:43

our predecessors don't, and it's because we've

47:45

had to figure out how to do

47:47

things for ourselves. There are all kinds

47:50

of things that Justin and I have

47:52

on our own watched videos and learned

47:54

how to do. Not because necessarily we

47:57

had to, but because we want to

47:59

be able to do them for ourselves.

48:01

Well, and I think there's real joy

48:04

in the act of doing it for

48:06

yourself. You know, when we talk about

48:08

what makes us at a base level

48:11

happy as humans, I think making things,

48:13

figuring things, figuring things out, doing things.

48:15

that makes us happy you know that's

48:18

that is it's encouraging you know whatever

48:20

life was promised to you where you

48:22

go to your office and everything else

48:25

has done for you you know your

48:27

food is instant and and all of

48:29

your problems you pay you have enough

48:32

money to pay somebody to fix so

48:34

that your schedule is clear just to

48:36

work your job where is the joy

48:39

there there's a lot of joy in

48:41

taking care of yourself And it doesn't

48:43

deprive anybody of job opportunities because generally

48:46

what happens is we try to fix

48:48

the plumbing or the electric or whatever

48:50

on our own, we mess it up

48:53

worse. And then we are grateful for

48:55

trades people who have the actual skill

48:57

set to come fix it for us

49:00

and it's probably worse than they make

49:02

more money. So there you go. There

49:04

are some trades that you should not

49:07

DIY, you know. There is obviously a

49:09

downside to all these things. That's a

49:11

whole other part. Maybe that that's the

49:14

next we could get into the down

49:16

the dark side of all the yeah,

49:18

yeah, making your own centerpiece for your

49:21

wedding is cool Don't don't try to

49:23

remove that that mold Yeah, yeah, making

49:25

your own antibiotics is not cool. Yeah

49:27

And that I know we're at we're

49:30

at we're almost at a time and

49:32

I think the last thing our last

49:34

contribution has kind of been the undercurrent

49:37

of the whole episode so I don't

49:39

know that we need to explain it

49:41

too much yeah but millennials are earnest

49:44

well and that's I look cringe is

49:46

just shame in another language you know

49:48

and it and shame is a form

49:51

of societal control it's it's trying to

49:53

make you be a useful member of

49:55

society by making you afraid of acting

49:58

out of line and millennials everything we've

50:00

talked about kind of is out of

50:02

line. Being ourselves, not being what we're

50:05

told to be, dressing the way we

50:07

want, trying to solve problems with our

50:09

own two hands, taking what's given to

50:12

us and fighting the most joy in

50:14

it. It's all done. Yeah. earnestly and

50:16

earnestly and I don't know like we

50:19

we were taught shame and we said

50:21

well that's yeah there's lots of things

50:23

you told me that I was supposed

50:26

to believe that didn't work out for

50:28

me so I'm going to let go

50:30

of that one too and the younger

50:33

generation bringing it back is cringe kind

50:35

of makes me sad but I hope

50:37

they get to the same point where

50:40

hey like you don't get any points

50:42

for being cool you you you don't

50:44

it doesn't get you anywhere It, yeah,

50:47

suppressing your joy, suppressing the things that

50:49

make you happy, being a more useful

50:51

cog to society, won't get you anywhere

50:54

that you want to go. Might get

50:56

you somewhere, but it won't get you

50:58

anywhere you want to go. No, I

51:01

think, I think loving the things you

51:03

love and celebrating other people loving the

51:05

things they love is, is one of

51:08

the best. things millennials have given and

51:10

I hope that more people accept that

51:12

and can let themselves do that because

51:15

you're right I always think of the

51:17

Ben fold song to another I don't

51:19

know that's Gen X slash millennial there's

51:22

always someone cooler than you there's always

51:24

like so let it go so let

51:26

it all go and just be who

51:29

you are wear whatever size jeans However

51:31

big the bottoms of the jeans you

51:33

want them to be wear those jeans

51:36

and listen to your music and Watch

51:38

cartoons if you want to and you

51:40

know eat it the local burger joint

51:43

with the With the bespoke pickles. I

51:45

mean I think that I think that

51:47

all that stuff brought us joy and

51:50

so we've done it and we've celebrated

51:52

it and we've gotten criticism for it

51:54

and I would say that like I

51:56

would very much like to celebrate the

51:59

weird stuff that boomers are into and

52:01

the weird stuff that Gen Z is

52:03

into and the weird stuff that Gen

52:06

X and Gen Alpha. I want to

52:08

celebrate all your quirky weirdness and randomness

52:10

too and I know it's there. Just

52:13

let it let it happen. Yeah, life

52:15

is short. Be cringe. There you go.

52:17

I agree. Also... Life is short, so

52:20

donate to maximum fun. Oh yeah, sounds

52:22

like a threat. Or it might be

52:24

shorter. I didn't do it that way.

52:27

But maximum fun.org/join again, this is the

52:29

Max fun drive. That's why we're doing

52:31

something a little special a little different.

52:34

We will do something else special next

52:36

week. We're not going to tell you

52:38

what it is yet, but you're going

52:41

to love it. And is that because

52:43

we don't know. We do know, am

52:45

I just forgetting? Yeah. What are we

52:48

doing next week? Terrified being our listeners.

52:50

This time we talked about the good

52:52

things that millennials have offered up. And

52:55

then I thought next week we were

52:57

talking about maybe one of the worst

52:59

but still most enjoyable things, which is

53:02

TV show girls. Oh, that's right. What's

53:04

essential? Yes. What's wrong with us? Everything

53:06

wrong with the millennial TV show. There

53:09

we go. That's right. I, man, I

53:11

forgot. We're going to get both sides

53:13

of the argument. You're going to get

53:16

both sides and millennials because we are,

53:18

again, we know who we are and

53:20

we don't lie about it. Yeah. Worts

53:23

and all. But thank you listeners. Maximfun.org/join

53:25

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Thank you to the novellas for our

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theme song, Baby Change Your Mind. This

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