0:32

Welcome to Still

0:34

Buffering, a cross-generational

0:36

guide to the culture that

0:38

made us. I'm Sydney McElroy.

0:41

And I'm Taylor Smerl. Did

0:43

the Easter Bunny visit Utah?

0:45

No. Oh. Well, I was my own

0:47

Easter Bunny, I guess. Because I did

0:50

make myself a treat. So

0:52

that's what happens, kids, when

0:54

you get older, you have to

0:56

be your own Easter Bunny. You

0:58

made yourself a treat? I did. I

1:01

got this is such an old

1:03

person thing to be excited about

1:05

but I got my first like

1:08

nice cast iron skillet specifically

1:10

so I could make a cornbread in

1:12

it and I worked a long shift

1:15

yesterday and it was very

1:17

busy because all of the

1:20

people celebrating the weed holiday

1:22

wanted food as you can imagine

1:24

and so I came home and I

1:26

came home and I came home and

1:28

I came home and I came home

1:30

and I beautiful loaf of

1:32

skillet cornbread. Yum. It's really

1:35

good. That sounds delicious. It's

1:37

really good. Well, it's a highlight

1:39

of my week, month maybe. Who knows?

1:41

I think, I mean, first of all, a

1:44

good cast iron skillet is very important.

1:46

Do you, have you, I'm certain

1:48

you've done your research on the

1:51

care and, care and keeping of

1:53

your cast iron. Yeah, well that's the

1:55

thing that helped me off from

1:57

getting one for so long was

1:59

in my. it was like an

2:01

incredibly detailed process. It's like, you

2:03

know, some sort of water temple

2:05

level situation trying to keep it

2:07

intact. But then I don't, I

2:09

read a couple articles, it's like,

2:11

oh, okay, no, you just, you

2:13

know, gotta, like, don't use hot

2:15

soaps and, you know, dry it,

2:17

or heat dry it, on the

2:19

stove and keep it with a

2:21

little sheen of oil on it.

2:23

Yeah, put some oil in it

2:25

occasionally and, and, yep. So we

2:27

have one we have one we've

2:29

had one for a while It

2:31

was actually one of the first

2:34

things that Justin and I bought

2:36

together like before it was you

2:38

know before we were married and

2:40

We each had our own obviously

2:42

our own finances, but we went

2:44

to the store and picked one

2:46

out and split the cost 50-50.

2:48

It was like our first joint

2:50

Purchase. Well, it was also there

2:52

was like a door mat we

2:54

purchased a door mat and a

2:56

cast-iron skillet. There's very adult things.

2:58

Uh-huh. Let me call it love

3:00

rug and love pan. Oh, okay.

3:02

You know. But, but love pan,

3:04

I was very, we bought it

3:06

so we could make pineapple upside

3:08

down cake. Oh. Yeah, but I

3:10

was very like, I don't want,

3:12

I don't want things that I

3:14

have to take that much care

3:16

of. You have children. Okay. The

3:18

other, the only thing I'm willing

3:20

to do that for... I think

3:22

children take a little bit more

3:24

work than a cast iron skillet.

3:26

I don't know, I only have

3:28

to skill it. I don't have

3:30

a child's mind. Why to say?

3:32

But they're living, they're living things

3:34

that, you know, I love. And

3:36

so like I am willing to

3:39

put in the time and effort

3:41

for my children. I do for

3:43

my cats. And you can put

3:45

soap on your kids. They would

3:47

not like us. No, they would

3:49

get really mad. Although, Olive has

3:51

taken to showering with me. Oh,

3:53

I should just sort of in

3:55

the corner. Yeah. I don't know

3:57

why she wants to be in

3:59

there. Supervising. She doesn't seem to

4:01

enjoy it but she does want

4:03

to be present. I want to

4:05

make sure you don't drown. She's

4:07

very worried. I think I've said

4:09

this. She's still doing the nursing

4:11

home cat thing where she's like

4:13

always on me like right now

4:15

she's right here at my feet.

4:17

Like wherever I am she yeah

4:19

I'm talking about you. She needs

4:21

to be pretty close. But I

4:23

was very resistant to the cast

4:25

iron, but Justin was all in

4:27

he was willing so he does

4:29

all the things to it He

4:31

seasons it Whenever we use it

4:33

I leave it for him to

4:35

clean. I'll do the rest I

4:37

feel like that's a fair distribution.

4:39

I'll do the rest of the

4:41

dishes But I'm leaving this one

4:43

pan for you so I don't

4:46

mess it up and so I

4:48

don't have to remember what not

4:50

to do That's that's fair. I

4:52

well as I was like I

4:54

was looking around there lots of

4:56

lots of people trying to sell

4:58

you lots of expensive things to

5:00

take care of it with. Yes.

5:02

So it does seem like you

5:04

can really you can really go

5:06

down a rabbit hole maintenance products

5:08

or a gas there and skillet

5:10

but I don't know I can't

5:12

remember the name I found some

5:14

article by a chef who was

5:16

like here's here's what you here's

5:18

the easiest cheapest way to do

5:20

it that will 100% work and

5:22

that's what I've been doing and

5:24

it's been fine. Well as long

5:26

as we're talking about old people

5:28

stuff you should you should check

5:30

out America Oh. Because the thing

5:32

about America's test kitchen is that

5:34

it's like it's recipes and cooking

5:36

implement and pan and tool and

5:38

whatever kitchen stuff advice. But it's

5:40

all like just straight up we

5:42

tested everything and this is the

5:44

scientific best answer to this. And

5:46

this is not to sell you

5:48

extra stuff. It's not freely. It's

5:51

not necessarily the fanciest. We can

5:53

tell you exactly, here's an article

5:55

that tells you exactly scientifically how

5:57

you take care of your cast

5:59

iron skillet. and this is the

6:01

right way and we know because

6:03

we tested hundreds of skillets under

6:05

hundreds of conditions with bunches of

6:07

people in this big kitchen and

6:09

we said here this is what

6:11

you do with a cast iron

6:13

and also this is the best

6:15

one. That sounds is Alton Brown

6:17

involved in that that sounds very

6:19

Alton Brown adjacent? He's not but

6:21

yes like so America's test kitchen.

6:23

Spiritually he's involved. Yes. It's I

6:25

ATK goes back pretty far. predates

6:27

predates out in but I guarantee

6:29

you yeah I guarantee you out

6:31

in drew inspiration from ATK because

6:33

like it really is about like

6:35

there are right and wrong ways

6:37

to do things if you're trying

6:39

like are you trying to achieve

6:41

this result well cooking is science

6:43

so like we can find ways

6:45

to achieve this result that we

6:47

know work and I mean I

6:49

know that then you get into

6:51

like well but if you put

6:53

a twist or a spin and

6:56

also like ATK occasionally will take

6:58

on recipes. Here's the thing you

7:00

have to know about Merrick's Test

7:02

Kitchen if you never watched it.

7:04

It feels very New England. Everything

7:06

about it feels like, I don't

7:08

know, like we're in Connecticut. Same

7:10

very New England could mean many

7:12

things. Are we talking like pastoral

7:14

and flannel? Are we talking like

7:16

outback of a dunkies with a

7:18

cigarette? These are both very New

7:20

England. No, we're talking about like...

7:22

white, upper, middle class, farmhouse, like,

7:24

can skew a little boogie at

7:26

times, you know what I mean?

7:28

Like, and so when they take

7:30

on recipes that originated in other

7:32

cultures sometimes, I like, well, we

7:34

actually don't have to scientifically tell,

7:36

you know, Vietnamese people the best

7:38

way to make. fun or something

7:40

you know what I mean like

7:42

maybe don't maybe don't do that

7:44

maybe maybe just stick with like

7:46

the way you roasted that lamb

7:48

looked incredible so but it's a

7:50

lot of fun I really love

7:52

ATK I I it's I would

7:54

recommend it they have I mean

7:56

they have websites and stuff too

7:58

but like they have a show

8:00

I'll have to look into that

8:03

because I do you enjoy that

8:05

that type of the treating cooking

8:07

like like like science I mean

8:09

it is but you know I

8:11

was just say they have a

8:13

bunch of hosts now which are

8:15

it's more diverse cast but the

8:17

two the two main hosts at

8:19

this point are both women which

8:21

is kind of nice so like

8:23

they I don't know. Julian Bridget,

8:25

they're wonderful. Anyway. I was going

8:27

to say, I checked in without

8:29

last night because I was, I

8:31

was, the recipe that I have

8:33

been using for my cornbread uses

8:35

baking powder, but there was, I

8:37

was trying to figure out how

8:39

to incorporate an ingredient, and so

8:41

I was looking in a different

8:43

recipe that used baking soda, like...

8:45

It's an element of baking powder.

8:47

I understood that much, but I

8:49

didn't understand beyond that. And so

8:51

I found a video where Outon

8:53

Brown talked about the difference between

8:55

the two and how they aren't

8:57

really the same thing and then

8:59

how you use, like why you

9:01

sometimes use both of them at

9:03

the same time. And that's what

9:05

I ended up doing. you see

9:08

baking powder with a little bit

9:10

of baking soda and I will

9:12

say I think it did give

9:14

me the superior result but it

9:16

was it was cool because sometimes

9:18

you throw stuff in a in

9:20

a dish and you just think

9:22

I don't know what happens and

9:24

it feels magical and then you

9:26

get into it's like no it

9:28

is literally like very measured science

9:30

that's happening where there's available acids

9:32

that are interacting with available bases

9:34

and if these are in balance

9:36

I will get this result and

9:38

it's a lot more precise than

9:40

you want to think. It is

9:42

especially when I mean specifically with

9:44

baking because you are like with

9:46

flour and baking soda and baking

9:48

powder and a lot of those

9:50

ingredients is just like I don't

9:52

know I just dumped various white

9:54

powders into a bowl yeah like

9:56

it feels like I don't know

9:58

what any of this and I

10:00

mean even as somebody who like

10:02

I studied science I have a

10:04

degree in science I'm still kind

10:06

of like I'm not really sure

10:08

what's, I don't know what's going

10:10

to happen here. But this mush

10:13

is going to become something fluffy.

10:15

It's really, it's really fascinating. Just

10:17

all of the little chemical processes

10:19

that happen and then, you know,

10:21

one interacts with another and then

10:23

that interacts with both and then

10:25

you end up with a, you

10:27

know, a brown butter or, you

10:29

know, a nice, a nice crisp

10:31

crust. Well, um. We had a

10:33

strange Easter weekend, we had a

10:35

long weekend, the kids were out

10:37

of school extra days, and in

10:39

one day, we got the, so

10:41

there's a local Facebook group that

10:43

tells you like somebody listens to

10:45

a police scanner and is constantly

10:47

posting it on Facebook. That kind

10:49

of vibe, and then all other

10:51

sorts of, I say neighborhood gossip,

10:53

it's like a city, but we're

10:55

a small town. Anyway, the tutors

10:57

on Route 60 caught on fire.

10:59

Oh no! Yeah, and I mean,

11:01

listen, Tudor's biscuit world is very

11:03

important to Huntington. Now, is it

11:05

the only tutors? No, there's other

11:07

tutors, so don't worry. But, I

11:09

mean, people were okay, but we

11:11

were very worried about, like, the

11:13

tutors. Right. Like, obviously, the most

11:15

important thing, no, humans were harmed,

11:17

but like, also, tutors. Too, that's

11:20

the entire world. Exactly. But, like,

11:22

like, the same day. Tudor's biscuit

11:24

world is on fire and I

11:26

mean like literally like people are

11:28

melting down on Facebook they're like

11:30

what am I gonna do now?

11:32

literal first comment but then the

11:34

same day we're outside it was

11:36

a nice evening we're sitting outside

11:38

and we hear a loud explosion

11:40

I'm like did everybody just hear

11:42

that I just hear that I

11:44

think something blew up don't see

11:46

anything And so I check the

11:48

Facebook group and everybody else is

11:50

like did anyone just hear a

11:52

loud boom in this area like

11:54

all different parts of the city

11:56

so like all over the city

11:58

we're talking about this for me.

12:00

West. People are discussing what was

12:02

the loud boom and then about

12:04

10 minutes later I'm like does

12:06

it smell bad out here? Oh

12:08

no. What am I smelling? There's

12:10

like there's like a sulfur smell

12:12

and so I'm like I guys

12:14

I think something blew up and

12:16

now we're smelling something like this

12:18

is weird and then the next

12:20

thing on this Facebook page. Do

12:22

you smell that? The entire city.

12:25

Everybody's freaking out. Like what are

12:27

we smelling? And then like people

12:29

right across the river. In Ohio

12:31

and in Kentucky, they're saying the

12:33

same thing. I'm like, what happened?

12:35

And we finally find out a

12:37

transformer in Ashland, Kentucky, which is

12:39

really close here, exploded, caught the

12:41

entire hillside on fire, including the

12:43

KFC. Oh, not the KFC. Again

12:45

people are okay, but the KFC

12:47

I can't believe that you can

12:49

smell the transformer from that far

12:51

away I assume that's what it

12:53

was I mean we heard an

12:55

explosion we had there was a

12:57

weird smell for a while in

12:59

the air and then there is

13:01

wild footage of the entire hillside

13:03

on fire I mean it was

13:05

I do not think this was

13:07

a sustained fight like everything ended

13:09

up okay but like it was

13:11

but a transformer exploded next to

13:13

the KFC See I like the

13:15

communal aspect of that that you

13:17

all have that you all respond

13:19

to it and take it seriously.

13:21

I mean we have a lot

13:23

of stuff that goes on in

13:25

New York and I don't use

13:27

it as much anymore because it

13:30

was just too much stress but

13:32

there's the citizen app that a

13:34

lot of people are on. People

13:36

can report things going on and

13:38

there'll be like a little map

13:40

that shows you what's going on

13:42

with like a color coding for

13:44

how severe it is like if

13:46

it's a murder it's a red

13:48

dot. It's a yellow dot. Yeah,

13:50

like I don't know, like I've

13:52

been, like there was one day,

13:54

I remember I was out in

13:56

the park running and it was,

13:58

the park was very crowded, it

14:00

was beautiful. day and I got

14:02

a citizen app alert and it

14:04

was man with machete and it

14:06

was like half a block from

14:08

me and I'm looking around I'm

14:10

like I really don't want to

14:12

stop my run I really get

14:14

these miles in there's a lot

14:16

of people around me I just

14:18

keep rolling if anything you should

14:20

like speed up your run I

14:22

think I'm just gonna run the

14:24

opposite direction I was just run

14:26

faster yeah I guess that's true

14:28

I got to go for a

14:30

moving target there's lots of people

14:32

just lounged around on blankets I'm

14:34

fine But there's not the same,

14:37

not the same communal response. It's

14:39

just like, oh, word, okay, and

14:41

you go about your day. No,

14:43

in Huntington, it is like, if

14:45

something's going on, everybody wants to

14:47

know, everybody's commenting, if people have

14:49

an inside track, if it's like,

14:51

it's happening next door to me,

14:53

or like, that's my cousin, they

14:55

are like, they become the main

14:57

character of the page for like

14:59

a few hours where like everybody's

15:01

like, oh my gosh, you know

15:03

about the event that's happening, that's

15:05

happening, tell us more. It's called

15:07

Huntington West Virginia 911. Now I

15:09

see why you won't give up

15:11

Facebook. Local stuff on Facebook is

15:13

good. There's a lot of crap

15:15

on there. Don't get me wrong.

15:17

And yes, I would just encourage

15:19

you if you're still using Facebook.

15:21

Don't be friends with people who

15:23

are just gonna make you mad

15:25

all the time. Don't read those

15:27

posts and don't comment. You don't

15:29

want to know what your uncle's

15:31

putting on Facebook. Let's be honest.

15:33

But at the same time for

15:35

local events I Don't know it

15:37

is a hard thing to give

15:39

up for local stuff. I will

15:42

say especially for a community our

15:44

size. It's how a lot of

15:46

people stay connected. That's fair There

15:48

was a we were outside this

15:50

morning and we heard again I

15:52

thought there was a boom there

15:54

was some sort of noise in

15:56

the distance and Charlie went not

15:58

the Arbies elaborate fake design. to

16:00

explode all of your fast food

16:02

joints. It did, I mean like, putting my

16:04

conspiracy theory had on there, it did,

16:06

I did have a moment where like

16:09

two fast food restaurants in one day.

16:11

It's gotta be related. Right? Can't

16:13

be coincidence. Is this what RFK's

16:15

gonna do? He's just gonna blow up all

16:18

the fast food. Is that what he's trying

16:20

to like to make us eat? a

16:22

carnivore diet or whatever it is? What's

16:24

his, I don't know, what's his weird

16:26

fake thing? Probably. He, what, is he a

16:29

raw milk guy? He seems like a raw milk

16:31

guy. He's a raw milk guy. Yeah, no, he's

16:33

a raw milk guy, but I think

16:35

he, I'm pretty sure when he came

16:37

to West Virginia and told our governor

16:39

he was overweight and then made fun

16:41

of him. He did. That's not, that's

16:43

not, I'm not laughing it, that's awful

16:46

to say, that's awful to say,

16:48

but our governor is also, also,

16:50

also. terrible terrible bad people saying

16:52

bad things other bad people right

16:54

right like I mean and granted I

16:56

do not I he should he should

16:58

say like you're a terrible person who

17:00

wants to hurt some of the most

17:03

vulnerable members of our community and who's

17:05

done terrible damage to West Virginia say

17:07

that let's not talk about how he

17:09

looks right but anyway he said he wants

17:11

to put him on a carnivore diet so

17:13

I think that's his thing meat and raw

17:16

milk oh God That's

17:18

like your nemesis, Tay,

17:20

as a vegan, somebody

17:22

who's just like meat

17:24

and raw milk. Yeah, well,

17:27

as a vegan that believes

17:29

in science, yeah. Yeah, there's

17:31

two things I hate. Stupid

17:34

people and meat. Two of

17:36

the things I hate the most.

17:38

He's, uh, terrible. Um, and

17:40

I did, I did wonder, is

17:42

this his war on... Fast

17:45

food. No, because there are

17:47

too many corporate shareholders

17:49

that have the make money off of

17:51

fast food. Trump loves it. Yeah,

17:54

I would say the fast food will

17:56

be safe. They'll find ways around

17:58

that. I feel like

18:00

this is a good segue. I feel

18:03

like we've been we've been discussing district

18:05

12 in essence for a while here.

18:07

Yeah, yeah, that's perfect. Hunger games. Ballad

18:09

of songbirds and snakes. I can I

18:11

just say like the titles are getting

18:14

the titles are a little much. Well,

18:16

I think that's the the the mutchiest

18:18

much because what do we have next?

18:20

We've got the Sunrise on the Reaping.

18:22

Yes, I can remember that one. But

18:25

I keep, I, every time I was,

18:27

I was saying, like, oh, I've got

18:29

to watch this movie this week or

18:31

whatever, we're doing this episode, I guess,

18:33

songbird, snakebird, snakebird, bird snake movie. I

18:35

mean, the one with the good, the

18:38

music is good, like, it's the one

18:40

with the good music. It does have

18:42

good music. This, in preparation for this

18:44

episode, this was my, my third watch

18:46

through. since it's come out I will

18:49

say the first time I watched it

18:51

and I don't know if you experience

18:53

this because you partake of a lot

18:55

of musical theater so maybe it is

18:57

different for you but for me the

19:00

first time I watched it I was

19:02

just like this is just a lot

19:04

of singing there it feels like the

19:06

amount of singing that is here would

19:08

not happen realistically no perhaps too much

19:10

singing it is it is a lot

19:13

of singing I feel well I wonder

19:15

too like Rachel Ziegler has a good

19:17

voice, which is taking advantage of like,

19:19

you know, she's talented and she has

19:21

a great voice, so we're gonna put

19:24

as much singing as possible. Like obviously

19:26

the character sings, like that's, I'm assuming

19:28

in the book, I didn't read the

19:30

book, but like, I'm not saying they

19:32

made that up, but like they really

19:35

wanted to put the singing up there.

19:37

I could see that being, you know,

19:39

you know, purposeful and I mean don't

19:41

get me wrong like the second and

19:43

third time I watched I was like

19:45

I remembered it being more intrusive it's

19:48

actually fine so it could have just

19:50

been just it is it is a

19:52

lot of things well the numbers go

19:54

on for a long time it's not

19:56

like a little snippet of like And

19:59

now she's singing, it's like, we're gonna

20:01

watch her sing. There are times where

20:03

she's singing and I'm like, no one

20:05

would let her sing this long. How

20:07

is she still singing? No one would

20:10

let her sing this long. Someone would

20:12

have stopped her. Well, okay, the first

20:14

time that she sings is when she's

20:16

being reaped, right? Yeah. And like, there's

20:18

a fight and she gets, she's up

20:20

on stage after the reaping and she

20:23

gets the mic and she sings. And

20:25

I mean, they've established that the, you

20:27

know, the people in power, this horrible

20:29

authoritarian regime, and they all just kind

20:31

of like, well, let her sing. I

20:34

guess there's the wrap of like, oh,

20:36

it's good for TV. It does seem

20:38

like you're just allowed to stand up

20:40

there and sing for a while. Well,

20:42

I agree. I think that's weird. I

20:45

will say that I, did you read

20:47

the book? I have not read the

20:49

book. Okay, I didn't either. So this

20:51

isn't a judgment thing. But it made

20:53

me wonder. So I had read the

20:55

other books before I saw the other

20:58

films. And so to me watching, I

21:00

mean, I already knew it was gonna

21:02

happen, right? Having not read this book,

21:04

there was an element to watching this

21:06

movie where I kept thinking like, did

21:09

I start it like 20 minutes in?

21:11

Did I miss something? I felt like,

21:13

I feel like if you haven't read

21:15

the book, there are almost moments where

21:17

you're like trying to catch up to

21:20

like, like, wait. Oh she put the

21:22

snake down her dress we find out

21:24

later it's because of this and so

21:26

she was dating that boy and that's

21:28

her dad and you know what I

21:30

mean like I wonder if all that

21:33

was spelled out really clearly in the

21:35

book and they're kind of using a

21:37

shorthand in the movie because they assume

21:39

you've read the book I don't know

21:41

I feel like that is just a

21:44

shift in in movie scripts specifically dealing

21:46

with already popular properties because the same

21:48

thing happens a lot I'm sure to

21:50

like people that are not familiar with

21:52

comic books watching comic book movies. There

21:55

are so many moments and I mean

21:57

I I've read a lot of comic

21:59

books but I'm not always versed in

22:01

whatever the movies about and there are

22:03

lots of movies that like have those

22:05

moments that you're, if you know the

22:08

source material, it makes total sense. But

22:10

if you don't, there's a little bit

22:12

of a leap of faith involved. Sometimes

22:14

big leaps of faith. You're like, wait,

22:16

why am I supposed to be excited?

22:19

Why is the whole audience excited about

22:21

this random man that showed his face

22:23

for two seconds? I don't know. I

22:25

think that's true. I mean, I think

22:27

you could, and I think like even

22:30

going back to the Twilight movies, I

22:32

think there's an element of that. Because

22:34

I read those books and watch those

22:36

movies and then the the fantasy series

22:38

that shall not be named I Think

22:40

you could level that crazy some of

22:43

the movies You level a lot of

22:45

criticism that that direction well at the

22:47

at the individual responsible, but man that's

22:49

it's so hard to like just have

22:51

to all those things about learning about

22:54

Stuff you love and then finding out

22:56

that the person who made it the

22:58

person who made it Sucks I know

23:00

we're preaching the choir with this one.

23:02

I feel like a lot of our

23:05

listeners have probably had that moment. Yeah,

23:07

yeah Well, I think so Susan Collins

23:09

is all right, right as far as

23:11

I know I don't I don't need

23:13

my I don't need my fantasy writers

23:15

to be Leading the revolution. It's great

23:18

if they want to I just need

23:20

you to not be horrible awful Stank

23:22

people. Can you just not do that

23:24

like it's you could be a little

23:26

bit of a jerk out there in

23:29

the atmosphere That's fine. Just don't be

23:31

evil. Don't be abhorrently evil. This keeps

23:33

happening where it's like somebody pulls the

23:35

curtain back. I'm like you were awful

23:37

I don't understand. I mean this is

23:40

a little off topic, but I feel

23:42

like people are not Are people not

23:44

hiring PR people anymore? Are you not

23:46

hiring someone to tell you like, oh,

23:48

don't say that or don't do that

23:50

or don't say it like that? Like

23:53

if you're famous, I thought you were

23:55

supposed to have somebody in your life

23:57

who told you like, don't do those

23:59

things. I'm just I'm thinking

24:02

about the ladies trip to

24:04

space or whatever they called

24:06

it. Yeah. Have you been to

24:08

space? You should go to space.

24:10

Oh, I wasn't. You mean the

24:13

10 million dollars? Sure. Yeah, I

24:15

didn't go to space. I

24:17

was holding space. You'll never

24:19

know how much love is

24:21

inside you Taylor until the

24:23

day you launch. So, so

24:25

much wonder. You look at

24:27

the earth and you finally. You

24:30

saw how beautiful it was.

24:32

I, I, I, was there nobody

24:34

standing there going, this, this

24:36

is not going to go

24:38

well, Katie. This isn't going

24:41

to, I understand it's space,

24:43

that's cool, but it's not,

24:45

it's not going to play well.

24:47

Put the flower down. It's not

24:50

going to play well. No, no. I

24:52

guess, the rhetoric, because we heard

24:54

it from some of these,

24:56

these women. boss lady space boss

24:59

boss boss boss woman gill boss boss

25:01

girl go to space space boss we

25:03

heard that the rhetoric of like the

25:05

wonder and awe that you have at

25:07

the earth and how truly beautiful it

25:09

is when you see it from outer

25:11

space and this is not the first

25:13

time you've heard this you know billionaires

25:16

that spend lots of money to go

25:18

to far flung areas of the world

25:20

to feel something is a recurrent thing

25:22

and it just as much as it

25:24

angers me it does kind of make

25:26

me feel good in the sense that hey

25:28

you know what I don't need to do

25:30

go to outer space just to feel wonder

25:33

at the world I don't I'm

25:35

sorry that you're so supremely broken

25:38

inside that you need to have

25:40

an incredibly like an insanely

25:42

unique experience just to

25:44

have one little like flick of light

25:46

in your soul the rest of us

25:49

walk around with it all day every

25:51

day And this has nothing to do, everybody

25:53

who's like, it's sexist, that we're criticizing these

25:55

women. No, no, no, no, no, no. This

25:57

has nothing to do with them being women

25:59

because... two of the richest men in

26:01

history both decided that with their untold

26:04

billions they needed to build private rockets

26:06

and go to space in them yeah

26:08

so that they could say they did

26:11

that so you know this is not

26:13

a gendered issue no no and that

26:15

there were there were like qualified women

26:18

in the crew that were definitely overshadowed

26:20

by the celebrity element but also that

26:22

they weren't manning the The rocket is

26:25

just a- They're not astronauts. No. Anyway,

26:27

back to- Very capital activities there. Right,

26:29

very capital activities. It was a- Okay,

26:32

I had not read the book. I

26:34

had heard many times that I should,

26:36

but I really, I knew it was

26:39

focused on snow and like his backstory.

26:41

So I guess that's kind of what

26:43

we're going to do now is like,

26:46

because the next one is about Hey

26:48

Mitch. And so we're going back and

26:50

kind of getting these back stories of

26:53

these other characters, right? Yeah. I don't

26:55

know, maybe someday she'll jump to the

26:57

future. We'll find out what happens next.

27:00

Oh, I would like that. That'd be

27:02

cool. But, so I really didn't have

27:04

any interest in knowing anything about snow,

27:07

because I found him so reprehensible. Sure.

27:09

And we've talked about this a lot

27:11

on the show. I'm not always in

27:14

for like a, oh, let's understand how

27:16

they got so broken and why they

27:18

would be such a, you know, let's

27:20

under, let's give them space to, I'm

27:23

not, sometimes you could just let him

27:25

be a bad person. Like just like,

27:27

what's a bad dude? I don't know,

27:30

he's evil, he's villain. And, but it

27:32

really wasn't that, I will say. All

27:34

that being said, I do not feel

27:37

like this was a redemption. This was

27:39

a redemption. I was a redemption. I

27:41

don't like this was a redemption. Like

27:44

I was always a jerk. He was

27:46

just he was a privileged jerk who

27:48

lost his privilege and was desperate to

27:51

get it back That's what I would

27:53

say to your first statement like I

27:55

found it refreshing that yeah, I don't

27:58

think it gave you any great sympathy

28:00

for him I think it showed you

28:02

that there was a point where he

28:05

kind of, he chose his path. He

28:07

was kind of always that guy. There

28:09

could have been ways he could have

28:12

stopped being that guy, but he was

28:14

always as evil as he was. Yeah,

28:16

well, I mean, he, it, the, it

28:19

wasn't just that his family was struggling.

28:21

I mean, I think that would be

28:23

a really easy read is like, well,

28:26

I mean, look, he was struggling to

28:28

feed his, whatever tiger says his cousin

28:30

and his, and his, grandma and times

28:32

are tough and life is so hard

28:35

and look at that's no it wasn't

28:37

just about struggling to feed them he

28:39

wanted them to get back to the

28:42

level of power and you know wealth

28:44

and privilege that his family had had

28:46

prior to his father being killed right

28:49

like that's what he wanted he didn't

28:51

just want to take care of them

28:53

he wanted more. Well, and you see

28:56

like via his his granny and then

28:58

obviously his, you know, father's involvement in

29:00

the games, that there's a real hatred

29:03

for the districts that's baked into it,

29:05

you know. And I mean, there is

29:07

that shot at the beginning when him

29:10

and Tigris are small children and they,

29:12

you know, you see them in the

29:14

war, like they have those scars, but

29:17

it's not that that that hatred for

29:19

the districts that carries him through this

29:21

movie that kind of powers his actions,

29:24

it's you know what the movies are

29:26

tackling that sort of legacy of hate

29:28

that just continues to compound on itself

29:31

and so if that's what he chooses

29:33

for himself that's his choice and he

29:35

wants to get back into it I

29:38

mean that's what he that's that's the

29:40

whole thing he wants like to him

29:42

what else could you want than to

29:44

get back to the capital and have

29:47

money and power and live a very

29:49

luxurious life there like the idea that

29:51

Lucy doesn't want that. That's not something

29:54

like it's not like she can't have

29:56

it. Why would she want that? Well,

29:58

it's not you know, yeah, that he

30:01

and that he's her pathway to that.

30:03

You know, it's not, he never has

30:05

the moment of like, oh wait, district

30:08

people are people too. Look, I'm capable

30:10

of loving one. So maybe they're

30:12

all worth something. It's like, you

30:14

know, I don't even know if

30:16

he loved her. Like I don't

30:18

know if there was ever an actual

30:20

goal to be with her. I don't

30:23

know that he did either. I think, I

30:25

think that the idea of her

30:27

as a songbird is pretty. a pretty

30:29

good representation. I think he

30:32

liked to listen to her and look

30:34

at her. I think he would have liked

30:36

to keep her sort of caged

30:38

with him at the Capitol as

30:40

like a pretty adornment to his

30:42

life. Right. But I don't think he

30:44

had much appreciation for her as a

30:47

as a whole human. It was more

30:49

of an as an idea. As an idea,

30:51

I think he loved her, but I don't

30:53

think he saw her as a person. No,

30:55

that's that's very, that's a very good

30:58

point like that litter, quite literally, he

31:00

meets her in a cage and that

31:02

is when he is enamored with her.

31:04

Yeah, and I think he likes her that

31:06

way and I think, you know, he likes

31:08

watching her perform in the district and

31:11

like that's, you know, you see him like

31:13

enjoying that, but he, he. he has

31:15

no interest in like now let me learn

31:17

all about you and listen to the words

31:19

you're singing and understand the pain behind your

31:22

songs and the harm that you know the

31:24

people that i come from have visited upon

31:26

the people in you know that are around

31:28

us you know interest in any of

31:30

that she's just it's pretty it's it's nice

31:32

it's pleasant it's very surface i think yeah

31:35

well and i mean i don't i'm curious

31:37

if this is spelled out more in the

31:39

books and i'm curious If you saw it the

31:41

same way I did, which I don't think

31:44

the first time I watched it, I think

31:46

I might have, you know, it always takes

31:48

a minute to kind of, a couple rewatches

31:50

to really look into something sometimes.

31:52

And for their relationship both ways,

31:55

rewatching it, I don't think she

31:57

cares about him either. I think

31:59

she cares. She's very smart and

32:01

using him as much as, and

32:03

being very careful with him, and

32:06

that, you know, that kind of

32:08

leads to the head at the

32:10

end where he's used her for

32:12

his means, she's used him for

32:14

her means, and then there's this,

32:17

on the surface, there are two

32:19

lovers escaping together, but really these

32:21

two kind of enemies that come

32:23

to this battle at the very

32:25

end. Like I don't think she

32:28

cared about him at all. Really?

32:30

Well, and I mean, you know,

32:32

I think it would be very

32:34

easy. It's about songbirds and snakes.

32:37

It's about her. She is the

32:39

songbird and then obviously there are

32:41

literal snakes in the book. But

32:43

I think there's also the question

32:45

of what is she? Like, not

32:48

that she's a bad person, but

32:50

she's not all weak and lovely

32:52

and fragile and, you know, she's

32:54

not that. Right. She's capable of

32:57

if she has to, she's capable

32:59

of doing harm. If she needs

33:01

to defend her people. And herself.

33:03

She can be the songbird or

33:05

the snake. Yeah, I think the

33:08

easy surface read is like she's

33:10

the songbird, he's the snake. Because

33:12

he is a snake. I mean

33:14

he lies and he betrays people

33:17

and he slithers around kind of

33:19

doing whatever he wants without calling

33:21

too much attention to himself until,

33:23

you know, all of his plans

33:25

are in place. But

33:29

yeah, no, I think I think

33:31

obviously she can represented by the

33:33

fact of like He finds the

33:35

scarf and picks it up and

33:37

there's a snake underneath right I

33:39

Guess it's is it my understanding

33:41

is it my understanding is it

33:43

is also sort of ambiguous in

33:45

the book what happens to her

33:47

at the end? Yeah, well, that's

33:49

like did he I guess what

33:51

did she escape? Did he shoot

33:53

her? Did she die somewhere? I

33:55

mean, I feel like it's very

33:57

pointed that she escapes I guess.

34:00

I assume she escaped? I don't know.

34:02

I guess, that's what I, I went

34:04

and looked it up after I watched

34:06

the movie, like, is it ambiguous in

34:08

the book or like, am I just

34:10

not, you know, was I supposed to

34:12

know that he got her? Like, we didn't

34:14

see her body. But it's not like

34:17

she comes back in the Hunger Games.

34:19

No, but I think that's the whole,

34:21

like, I mean, it. I'm sure that there

34:23

are more elements in the new book,

34:26

but even just all of the ways

34:28

that you see how personal what happens

34:30

in the Hunger Games is for snow.

34:33

Like, talk about like the Queen of

34:35

Haunting a narrative. Like, it would almost

34:37

ruin it if she did come back.

34:40

It was just, you know, a person

34:42

that, like, is involved in the revolution.

34:44

Like, her is just this horrible forest

34:46

that haunted snow his whole life and

34:49

came back in so many ways.

34:51

that mimics the way she bows

34:53

at first, the fact that Katniss

34:55

is named Katniss, like, you know,

34:57

like that, there's just so many

34:59

ways that it like, the song

35:01

that Katniss sings that is, you

35:03

know, that the hangentry song,

35:05

that like, like, it felt so

35:07

personal to him, like all of

35:10

the spirits aligned to make this

35:12

revenge intimate. No, and I mean, I

35:14

do, I think you're right. I do think

35:16

that, that is what we're setting up for.

35:18

is like the seeds of

35:20

the revolution were planted then.

35:22

And he was part of it. He

35:25

was part of his own destruction.

35:27

Right. Because he, even though

35:30

he eventually turns on her

35:32

and rejoins the capital there

35:34

at the end and turns on his

35:36

friend, like the way the games played

35:39

out in her favor, set a tone

35:41

that, you know what I mean? Like

35:43

the idea that this girl from

35:45

District 12 won. Was already

35:48

destructive to the capital

35:50

right well on the idea that

35:52

there has to be a Victor Yeah,

35:54

set the precedent for you know,

35:56

like they can't I can't just let

35:58

them all die. Yeah Yeah,

36:02

but then I mean also he

36:04

he was the one who made

36:06

it so brutal with all the

36:09

like good for TV content and

36:11

all that kind of stuff that

36:13

was all him right I Don't

36:15

know I thought I mean I

36:18

did not and maybe it's because

36:20

I didn't read the book I

36:22

read the Hunger Game books and

36:24

so I found the movies like

36:26

I was just totally wrapped up

36:29

and I found them so captivating

36:31

and the story and sad and

36:33

you know i really felt like

36:35

drawn in by it and i

36:37

can't say i did as much

36:40

with this but i don't know

36:42

that's probably just a nature of

36:44

not reading the book yeah yeah

36:46

i don't i i enjoyed i

36:49

mean i well i guess i've

36:51

never read any of the book

36:53

so that's probably why i can't

36:55

get around the same level for

36:57

me yeah i think it was

37:00

like i watched the first time

37:02

i watched it i watched it

37:04

literally after rewatch of the the

37:06

the trilogy of the trilogy So

37:09

it kind of, it was nice

37:11

because it just gives you so

37:13

much more, like, that feeds into

37:15

the, the, the future narrative. But

37:17

I don't know. I also like,

37:20

I mean, I think that Lucy

37:22

Gray is just such a great

37:24

character. She's just so, just such

37:26

a fascinating, like, she's not a

37:29

damsel. but she's not like the

37:31

cliche like it's not like catness

37:33

who's just like you know she's

37:35

tough and she's gruff and like

37:37

she's not a she's not a

37:40

girls girls like Lucy Gray is

37:42

just a very unique representation of

37:44

you know a very specific type

37:46

of character you don't you don't

37:48

get that often from female characters

37:51

yeah no I think that's true

37:53

and I think you know it's

37:55

funny because if catness had had

37:57

had even an ounce of the

38:00

like charisma and showmanship that Lucy

38:02

Gray does. She probably could have

38:04

started the revolution like from the

38:06

jump right because she had like

38:08

the skills too she would like

38:11

the survival skills she was she's

38:13

a fighter she's a warrior she's

38:15

and Lucy Gray isn't she's a

38:17

singer she's a performer if if

38:20

Katnissa had one ounce of that

38:22

which she doesn't right like anything

38:24

she does anything that inspires people

38:26

with like visuals or words she's

38:28

being coached into doing none of

38:31

that comes naturally to her Oh,

38:33

she was lucky she had that,

38:35

the PETA. Like, PETA was the

38:37

charisma that Cat has lacked. Which

38:40

is, which is great from a

38:42

guy's name for bread. Yeah. Well,

38:44

you know. I love that. He

38:46

has all the charisma. His name

38:48

is bread. No, it's, it's too

38:51

ease. I know but we say

38:53

PETA like we can all pretend

38:55

like a little bit spelled different

38:57

but it's that we call I

38:59

mean his name's PETA. Yeah well

39:02

you know that's that's how we

39:04

used to name people right like

39:06

oh you you make your dad

39:08

makes bread your name although I

39:11

don't know why the name wasn't

39:13

just it'd be pretty funny if

39:15

it's named bread. Pan there's pants

39:17

right there yeah sometimes sometimes sometimes

39:19

sometimes you can do that. I

39:22

know both the bread and the

39:24

and the character. Yeah man and

39:27

that that really is I know

39:29

that expands to talk about the

39:31

Hunger Games in general but like

39:33

I think that's really well done

39:35

in the series that the turn

39:37

that you make as a as

39:40

a reader and or a watcher

39:42

from like and this is especially

39:44

true in the books Gail seems

39:46

like a very romantic figure early

39:48

on and you really are like

39:50

oh Katniss and Gail but by

39:52

the end it's like screw that

39:55

guy Peter the man. Well I

39:57

do, you know, I remember you

39:59

were saying like early on, like

40:01

I don't, I don't know about

40:03

a movie that makes snow look

40:05

attractive. Like and that there was

40:07

that response obviously when the the

40:10

actor in this movie was cast

40:12

like he's very attractive young man

40:14

like oh is this it's gonna

40:16

be you know hot snow like

40:18

I don't despite this being a

40:20

very attractive actor I don't think

40:23

there was a moment in the

40:25

movie where it was like yeah

40:27

what a what a romantic relationship

40:29

which I appreciate. I think that

40:31

that was that must have been

40:33

hard to communicate because he is

40:35

a very attractive actor with a

40:38

lot of like scenes that might

40:40

make you feel for him. But

40:42

he has he has an edge.

40:44

The actor does a really good

40:46

job of and I don't know,

40:48

maybe maybe it was following the

40:50

cue from from snow in the

40:53

first three movies. There is a

40:55

like an emptiness. like a lack

40:57

of connection that you can feel.

40:59

I don't know if he's trying

41:01

to do like a sociopath kind

41:03

of vibe or something. Oh, but

41:06

I could totally see that. You

41:08

know what I mean? Like there's,

41:10

you can feel it. There's something

41:12

missing. I felt like he had

41:14

more of that than the old

41:16

man snow, snow, like elder snow

41:18

was more, seemed more warm and

41:21

charismatic at moments than this guy

41:23

ever did. Which I think. purposeful

41:25

like he he had a highly

41:27

developed ability to perform and cloak

41:29

himself by the time he was

41:31

you know an adult this is

41:33

still young still still developing the

41:36

the outer shell that you know

41:38

people like that get before you

41:40

yeah I mean I do think

41:42

like there are times where the

41:44

and it's to the actor's credit

41:46

like you you you feel like

41:49

oh oh there's something missing like

41:51

Patrick Bateman Yeah, I mean like

41:53

it which is impressive to do

41:55

on screen like set off those

41:57

sort of like you know we

41:59

have those like defense mechanism supposedly

42:01

in our brains where we can

42:04

recognize that and other humans and

42:06

you feel a little bit of

42:08

a like ooh step back red

42:10

flag like um I don't know

42:12

he gives that vibe like oh

42:14

there's something missing no I agree

42:16

yeah I I definitely get that

42:19

that vibe and and I mean

42:21

I think he's also styled like

42:23

when he gets his haircut really

42:25

short and because he is so

42:27

like blonde and pale and I

42:29

don't know there's like this kind

42:32

of Aryan vibe going yeah and

42:34

then the military you know what

42:36

I mean I feel like that's

42:38

intentional no absolutely and he's there

42:40

judging the people in the district

42:42

who you know have a variety

42:44

of like skin tones and you

42:47

know I don't know there's something

42:49

about him that feels a little

42:51

like oh I know I've got

42:53

to I've got to assume that's

42:55

all very purposeful right like the

42:57

fact that a bad guy is

42:59

the whitest that's ever whited it's

43:02

ever whited And we named him

43:04

Snow. Yeah, that's come on. Yeah,

43:06

I know I yes, I I

43:08

feel like that's how purpose will

43:10

you have to be these days

43:12

though to keep the actual. Fashes

43:15

from claiming a fictional narrative is

43:17

like, oh yeah, we're the good

43:19

guys in this, which I still

43:21

think does happen. I still think

43:23

that there are people out there

43:25

that think the Hunger Games is

43:27

somehow about the. downtrodden good white

43:30

Christians that are being oppressed by

43:32

the because the people in the

43:34

capital you know they have funny

43:36

hair collars and dress crazy so

43:38

that's like all those all those

43:40

gay people that are in power

43:42

and forcing us to battle to

43:45

death sure that's like holly weird

43:47

oh right right that's who it

43:49

is yeah those are the people

43:51

in control I wonder if they

43:53

understand that they're in the capital

43:55

I don't I You know that

43:58

I guess that's the wonderful thing

44:00

about truth being malleable in your

44:02

existence. It can be whatever you

44:04

want Well, but I mean I

44:06

do think I think you could

44:08

also say like it's a good

44:10

reason why we can't why there

44:13

is a there whatever your political

44:15

affiliation is there is a point

44:17

where you have you have too

44:19

much money and you're you can

44:21

be part of that whether or

44:23

not you believe you're part of

44:25

that you are you know what

44:28

I mean sure some of it

44:30

is just about money well rich

44:32

and poor yeah Yeah, I don't

44:34

know. I thought I enjoyed it.

44:36

I really like the music. I

44:38

wanted the soundtrack afterwards It felt

44:41

like it felt like music from

44:43

around here. Well, no No, I

44:45

mean there some of those songs

44:47

are written for the movie, but

44:49

I thought one of the songs

44:51

she sings is actually based on

44:53

an old hymn like the it's

44:56

the same There is one the

44:58

I forget which one, but I

45:00

look this up too. The one

45:02

she sings that she, on stage,

45:04

she sings to her ex. Oh,

45:06

is that the one? The story

45:08

of Lucy Gray is also a

45:11

poem, right? How is it? Or

45:13

an old story? I don't know.

45:15

Now we're just making stuff. No,

45:17

I'm pretty sure, because I heard

45:19

somebody singing the original version of,

45:21

uh, it's the I was the

45:24

one that you lost in their

45:26

reaping. You know? Yeah, that could

45:28

be. Now Lucy Gray is a

45:30

ballad by William Wordsworth. Okay. Yeah,

45:32

a young girl who disappears in

45:34

a snowstorm. So there you go.

45:36

Well, that's cool. That makes total

45:39

sense. But yeah, because when she's

45:41

singing the song about Lucy Gray

45:43

to him, that is the poem

45:45

that she's singing. Because when he

45:47

asks like what happened to Lucy

45:49

Gray, they're like, we don't know.

45:54

Which you know pressure there's a

45:56

lot a lot of sort of

45:58

this Set up and delivery, but

46:00

that is very, I don't know.

46:02

It's not subtle. Yeah, and maybe

46:04

not realistic, but like literary, that

46:06

I enjoy. Yeah, yeah, I don't

46:08

mind that. It's fiction. I don't

46:10

mind. Well, it was fun to

46:13

watch. I may read this next

46:15

book. I really liked Hey Mitch.

46:17

I was surprised that you hadn't

46:19

read it yet honestly, because I

46:21

know how much you love Hey

46:23

Mitch. I might dive back in

46:25

and read it. I think I

46:27

might. It might be the first

46:29

one that I actually read. I

46:31

think I would like to go

46:33

back and read the other ones,

46:35

but I don't think I want

46:37

to wait for the movie. Got

46:39

what, like a year, a year

46:41

and a half? Yeah, I think

46:43

I might read it. So, Tay,

46:45

what should we do next week?

46:47

Well, we haven't talked about a

46:50

cartoon in a minute, and you

46:52

know, I realize we haven't talking

46:54

about any of what like kind

46:56

of a golden age of cartoon

46:58

network in like the... early 2000s,

47:00

one of the most iconic of

47:02

which I think was Powerpuff Girls.

47:04

Oh, that would be perfect. Charlene

47:06

Cooper would love that. Any time

47:08

it's a cartoon, I feel like

47:10

it's got to be something you

47:12

can watch with the kids. That

47:14

makes it easier. It's weird if

47:16

you're like sorry kids, mommy's busy

47:18

watching cartoons for homework right now,

47:20

you can't join me. Go to

47:22

bed. I have to watch a

47:25

cartoon. Well, perfect. Well, we'll talk

47:27

about Powerpuff girls next week. And

47:29

in the meantime, you should check

47:31

out maximfun.org, there are a lot

47:33

of great shows there you would

47:35

enjoy. And thank you to the

47:37

novellas for a theme song, Baby

47:39

Change Your Mind. This has been

47:41

still buffering, your cross-generational guide to

47:43

the culture that made us. I'm

47:45

Cindy McElroy. And I'm Taylor Smurrell.

47:47

I am still buffering. And I

47:49

am too. We didn't even talk

47:51

about that, that the evil scientist

47:53

cared. Maximum

48:03

fun.org. Comedy and

48:05

culture. Artist-owned. Audience

48:07

supported.