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1:08

to Storing It Up On The

1:10

Road. Today we land in Glasgow,

1:13

which is that far from Edinburgh,

1:15

but it feels like a completely

1:18

different place when you get there.

1:20

The architecture changes, everyone's accents changed,

1:23

energy was different. I found it

1:25

really interesting to realize how close

1:27

by they are, but have completely

1:29

different vibes. That shift is really

1:32

quite important, I think. And then

1:34

you understand why Edinburghians and Glaswegians,

1:36

you know, are very clear that

1:38

they're very different cities, you know, what

1:40

a great place Glasgow is. And Glasgow

1:42

also, I loved visiting the sits. I've

1:45

known so many actors who've gone through the

1:47

sits in theatre. And I didn't know how

1:49

old it was. I didn't know so much

1:51

about the history of the sits and so

1:54

much about where it is in the gawbles,

1:56

which was the like hardcore part

1:58

of Glasgow. So it's. It's interesting to

2:00

me that art and

2:02

passionate creativity so often come

2:05

out of hardship and are born

2:07

in the centre of where things

2:09

are most difficult and the sits

2:12

I just thought was a brilliant,

2:14

brilliant example of something so

2:16

beautiful and powerful. I love to those people.

2:18

I can't wait for them to reopen because

2:20

I'm going to go up there. Yes, we've

2:22

been invited to a show when they reopen

2:24

and we will be there in a heartbeat.

2:27

I loved these guys. We also went to

2:29

the University Cafe. Yes, Mum, do you want

2:31

to talk about your lasagna? Shall we wait

2:33

a minute before you start singing a lullaby

2:35

to your lasagna? Let's go to the sits

2:38

and then we'll come back and give a

2:40

whole moment to talk about that bloody lasagna.

2:42

I think the lasagna needs an intro. First

2:44

we'll go to the sits. I

3:00

quite like a weird health and safety look. Hello.

3:03

Hiya! Hello everybody. So

3:06

what are your names again? I'm Dominick, I'm

3:08

the artistic director. Lovely. This is

3:10

Graham. So I'm technical director. So how long have you

3:12

been doing this building work so far? I

3:16

guess the project started at 11 years

3:18

ago. So

3:20

have you been a permanent building site? No, no. Well,

3:23

it started in 2019. Right. And

3:25

we're due to finish by the end of this year. Because

3:27

of over the years it's just got had become more and

3:30

more dilapidated. Right. And so normally, usually

3:32

there was a whole kind of foyer

3:34

around this, the original Victorian

3:37

building. So what we've had to

3:40

do is basically take down everything

3:42

that was there, which was, had

3:44

been added on over years and

3:46

years and years. Right. The

3:48

theatre is basically the heart of this building,

3:50

you know. I mean, I'm biased, but I'm

3:52

a theatre director and it is the most

3:54

gorgeous space to make work.

3:57

Yeah. And over the years, our best actors

3:59

have worked. appeared there. Because we started

4:01

talking about coming to Glasgow, we've got to go to the

4:03

sit. Because I know like Anne

4:05

Mitchell and Shay Walker and Eamonn Walk and

4:07

people like that and the way they talk,

4:10

actors that I know, the way they talk

4:12

about the sit, their face goes all fuzzy

4:14

and they sort of go all dreamy because

4:16

there's some mythology and a connection.

4:19

I was here, we did a sort

4:21

of birthday celebration nine years ago and

4:23

I was here performing on the stage.

4:25

Oh wow. And you know people like

4:27

Ciara and Rui Rupert and Daria Oldman,

4:29

Piers Brosnan, Mark Lyle and all these

4:31

people came through the sit. This theatre.

4:33

And I think the other thing that's

4:35

really important to say is that you

4:37

know we sit here in the middle

4:39

of this community, the Gorgles, which has

4:41

changed over hundreds of years at

4:44

one point was you know the poorest part

4:47

of Europe. This theatre has stood

4:49

here all through that time. So

4:51

our relationship to our community is

4:53

absolutely crucial and the building of

4:55

this theatre has been very much

4:58

with a focus on being a

5:00

new community hub. You'll see when

5:02

we started, there weren't any

5:04

of these houses when we

5:06

started this building work. So as we've changed,

5:09

the level of air has changed, so the

5:11

sense of being focused for

5:13

the community I think is going to

5:15

be really important for when we open. What

5:17

was the initial, when was it first

5:19

built, what was the initial thought and moment

5:22

that the sits was created? You mean this?

5:24

Yeah. The original building. Right and then and

5:26

that actually had a very posh name

5:28

it was a Royal Opera House. It was

5:31

a theatre. It was the Royal Insisties. They

5:33

were building like theatres all over Glasgow at that time.

5:36

This was one of the first ones to be built

5:38

south of the river. That's right. Yeah it was a

5:40

big one. And then next door there was also the

5:42

Palace Theatre and then in between the two of those

5:44

there was that close theatre that

5:46

was opened up later on. That's a

5:49

lot of theatres. Yeah. The

5:51

entertainment and I think in Glaswegian there's always

5:53

been a kind of you know love for

5:55

variety, love for pantomime. I mean famously the

5:57

sits pantomime used to run

6:00

until eight equal, you know, that because

6:02

it was the major source of entertainment.

6:04

So, you know, it's important as part

6:06

of just the sort of fabric. It

6:08

was major. And can I ask how

6:11

how did the sits fair in that

6:13

time of great poverty in this area?

6:15

I think well, because, you

6:17

know, the tickets were cheap, people came because it

6:19

was the thing to do. And

6:21

it's interesting that the original capacity of

6:23

the theater was like what? 1,300,

6:25

something like nearly 2004. Wow.

6:28

Two thousand four hundred. And when we

6:31

we opened, it'll be 650. Just

6:34

that sense of of crowning

6:36

people in is something that

6:38

I think they used to do. And that's great.

6:40

And there were hundreds of, you know, loads of

6:43

theaters in Alaska. I think right

6:45

back to the beginning, it didn't have fire escapes and fire

6:47

lobbies. Oh, that's taking up some faith. I

6:52

just kept running down. Because when

6:54

we think of theater, we think of it just as being a sort

6:56

of extra add on entertainment. But actually,

6:59

when you're talking about it, it's more like

7:01

a lifeline. Well, especially and especially if you're

7:03

saying that there was so much poverty in

7:05

this area, you know, that idea of living

7:07

in close proximity to stories and storytelling and

7:09

other worlds and culture. Yeah. I

7:12

think I came here, but it was so long

7:14

ago. It's like a very dim, distant memory. And

7:17

Ayman Walker put me here like a long, long,

7:19

long look, like literally decades ago. I can't even

7:21

remember it, but I just have a sense of

7:23

it. When do you

7:25

intend to sort of open? Next summer. Next

7:28

summer. So how long have you

7:31

been here? I've been here since the end of 2011.

7:34

Oh, quite a long time. Don't say that. The

7:38

building's been closed. No, that's been open. So

7:40

you itching to do your get your.

7:44

Well, we've been closed. I've commissioned quite

7:46

a lot of work from writers. Yeah.

7:48

And so that's sort of getting ready

7:50

to go now. And then

7:52

also we work a lot in partnership with our theatre.

7:54

So it's also what they want to do. So there's

7:57

lots of different things and also what what makes them.

8:00

The money add up. Oh, of course. Well, yes. So

8:02

and do you have to try and work

8:04

some kind of balance between what's going to

8:07

make the money add up and then perhaps

8:09

things that have got more artistic integrity, perhaps

8:11

that might be a weird way to put

8:13

it. But actually maybe bringing less people. Yeah,

8:15

yeah. Never hope that it won't ever

8:17

not befallen. But yeah, you've got to

8:19

nurture new artists, new writers, new plays.

8:22

Don't necessarily immediately get an

8:25

audience as quickly as something with a title or

8:27

a classic so it's just

8:29

it's absolutely just about balance. But I like

8:31

what you were saying about not sort of diluting

8:34

the kind of

8:37

programs when a theatre is in a

8:39

particular location, maybe thinking that Shakespeare

8:41

is not relevant or things, you know what I

8:43

mean? It's like all those things still need to

8:45

be here. Yeah, I think it's as long

8:47

as the production has got

8:49

to be good, not to be a reason for

8:51

doing it. It's got to be, you know, no

8:53

one wants to be bored in the theatre. It's

8:56

the worst thing in the world. Yes, it really

8:58

is. We've always wanted to say, look,

9:00

you might not have heard of this or that

9:02

this might be some crazy European classic, but it

9:05

doesn't mean it's not for you. And that's why

9:07

all that policy don't come and see it cheeky.

9:10

Yeah, it's a massive issue, isn't it?

9:12

It's still in England as well. So

9:14

it's just that idea of theatre being

9:16

for other people. And actually places

9:18

like this were built for the community. And

9:21

do you focus also on getting

9:23

young people in the area interested? Yeah,

9:26

young people, people who

9:28

are from, you know, a more marginalized

9:31

background, we work with them a lot.

9:33

We've got a really extensive kind of

9:35

community and outreach a

9:37

team and department, which has kept going even

9:39

while we've been shut all through the pandemic,

9:41

that kept going, particularly working

9:43

in the local community. So all that

9:45

is kind of part

9:48

of the sort of pipeline to try and get

9:50

people, yes, to have

9:52

an experience along the way, which is an end

9:54

in itself, but also that we want to make

9:57

sure that they experience the thrill

9:59

of. Watching stuff in there

10:01

and some of them get to be on stage.

10:03

Yes as well It is thrilling because I was

10:05

gonna say cuz good theater is thrilling. It feels

10:08

very thoughtful the work that's happening The

10:10

idea of taking this away when

10:13

it really what you're describing is that it's

10:15

the kind of heartbeat of

10:17

a community It's terrible as a

10:19

concept for a motorway off-ramp. No,

10:21

you would have killed the whole

10:23

area, wouldn't it? We

10:25

hold on to the fact that the sits is a

10:27

survivor, you know, it's like yeah people

10:29

need to be reminded that Theta

10:32

just doesn't exist in a bubble that

10:34

the skills that people learn and will

10:36

be doing sort of a lot more

10:38

apprenticeships and ways of

10:41

training and getting young people in their

10:44

learning skills that aren't just for the

10:47

theater, but they're for television. Yeah film the

10:49

right writers who write the

10:51

plays also go and write EastEnders or

10:53

they can write Yeah film

10:55

scripts. So the whole performing arts ecology is

10:57

so kind of interconnect Yes, so if you

10:59

get rid of theater you get rid of

11:01

a whole load of skills that are needed.

11:03

It feeds our industry Absolutely. I know it's

11:06

important to remember as well. It's like in

11:08

the music industry It's not just like people

11:10

on the mic or people on the stage.

11:12

There's stage directors. There's lighting. There's sound

11:15

people People

11:17

who build the sets, you know

11:19

graphic designers There's all sorts of

11:21

work and enterprise involved in this

11:23

massive beautiful Beyond

11:26

the project, isn't it? I feel like it's a

11:28

living animal Fox2Kete

11:31

like a wardrobe Yeah, and a

11:33

workshop so where we make all

11:35

the costumes Wow make the sets

11:37

because those are sort of disappearing

11:39

and actually it's skills There's

11:42

a real skill shortage in Scotland Artisanal,

11:44

yeah, and I think for us to do training

11:47

and apprenticeships and things like that and sort of

11:49

feet feet in at the bottom I mean I

11:51

tend to as a person that runs all those

11:53

backstages departments I tend to lose

11:55

most of my staff to some Game of

11:57

Thrones or Peaky Blinders Right, right Outlands always

12:00

I bet Outlander really screwed you guys. This

12:03

is almost like where people cut their teeth and then

12:05

go on into those actors. Do you know what you're

12:07

going to open with? I think, bear

12:09

with me when I say this, I think, so

12:12

we've been developing a piece about

12:15

the aftermath of the Lockerbie

12:17

disaster in Scotland. It's

12:19

actually the biggest act of terrorism that could happen

12:21

in Europe. 280

12:23

people on a plane were blown up over

12:25

a Scottish town. A plane landed on the

12:27

town, killed people in the town, at the

12:30

end of the 1980s. But

12:32

the extraordinary thing that happened is that people on

12:34

the ground who

12:36

had to deal with this appalling thing started

12:40

finding ways of connecting with the relatives of

12:42

all the people who died in America. And

12:45

these extraordinary, the play is

12:47

called Small Acts of Love. So,

12:49

for example, a lot of

12:51

the women in Lockerbie found all the

12:54

items of clothing that were scattered. They

12:56

cleaned, they ironed them, they found

12:58

out who they belonged to and they sent them

13:00

back to the families and the people that they

13:02

belonged to. So we've made a piece of theatre

13:05

with a guy, Ricky Ross, Deacon Blue,

13:07

do you know? Oh yeah, I know who you mean, yeah.

13:10

So it's got songs in and music and it's

13:13

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14:29

An incredible place with such rich history

14:32

that is still doing brilliant, amazing work

14:34

in the heart of Glasgow. So thank

14:36

you so much, everyone involved at the

14:38

Citizens Theatre for inviting us along for

14:40

that day. Okay, mom, the time has

14:42

come. We left SIT. We

14:45

were starving and I think it started to rain.

14:47

And where we were taken to was like

14:50

some sort of Mecca for my mother. My

14:52

mother brought me up in CAFs. CAFs are

14:54

very, very important. I love a CAF, not

14:56

a cafe. Yes. Very different. And where we

14:59

were taken is the type of CAF that

15:01

doesn't exist like it used to. In the

15:04

90s in London growing up, all over the world

15:06

there used to be these. There were these great

15:08

sort of Italian, English CAFs with

15:10

brilliant pasta. But also you can get a

15:12

fry up. I mean, that's just what I

15:14

know. There were three in Labrador Grove. So

15:16

we were taken to University CAF in Glasgow,

15:19

which is very well known, run by an

15:21

Italian family and has been for years. And

15:25

now, mom, you can talk about

15:27

your lasagna. So we went to

15:29

University CAF to meet Lorna McNee,

15:31

actually, who is another GBM alumni.

15:33

I love all my Scottish chefs.

15:36

And the woman in University CAF

15:38

made me a lasagna that I've got

15:40

a photo of on my phone. Oh my God. Sometimes

15:42

I just take it out and have a little look at

15:45

it. Now tell me, you've eaten

15:47

a lot of lasagnas in your time. What

15:49

was it about this lasagna? What was important

15:51

about this was the ragu was incredible. Like

15:53

the meaty sauce was delicious. The creamy sauce

15:55

was delicious. But she'd done this incredible thing

15:58

where it was in a lovely. like

16:00

ramekin thing, quite a big one, I hasten

16:02

to add. And the lasagna was sitting lots

16:04

of different layers, quite a lot of layers.

16:06

So it was quite not, you know, not

16:08

just three, more like eight. And

16:11

then she had extra sauce around

16:13

it, extra sauce on

16:15

the top, and then Parmesan melted

16:17

in, and then more Parmesan on

16:19

the top round, more on the

16:22

top. It was a lasagna party.

16:24

If you would like to see

16:26

a picture of this lasagna,

16:28

please refer to my mother's Instagram. She

16:30

hasn't gridded it yet, but I'm sure

16:32

she will. It's coming. Here we go

16:34

then. So

16:38

now for a look at this face. It's got

16:40

all these booths. Yeah.

16:43

And they've got like, it's almost an old school cinema

16:45

seats. Let's do this. I

16:47

just need to discuss this. Lawn

16:49

sausage, tick. Potatoes, scum,

16:51

tick. Oh delicious. Bacon, tick, egg,

16:54

tick, black pudding, tick, hash brown,

16:56

no beans, thanks, and toast. Yeah,

16:59

that's why you'll have for a last. She's

17:01

suffering. Just the language

17:03

is so great. Yeah, and

17:05

if you're in your homemade passes, I imagine this is

17:08

an Italian family, right? I mean, I have to have,

17:10

I'm gonna have lasagna. Do it. What are

17:12

you gonna have? To get everyone this.

17:14

Of course, stemies. I'm

17:16

really happy that we're here in your land. So

17:20

it felt funny being here with us,

17:22

right? What, you know what's interesting? I

17:24

have never really taken on board properly.

17:27

I know this sounds ridiculous, that

17:30

you're half Scottish, because

17:32

I've never really had to think about it.

17:34

And now I'm really thinking about it properly

17:36

for the first time, properly,

17:38

properly, because

17:40

you've embraced your family and you're now close

17:42

to your Scottish family. I'm now

17:45

going, oh yeah, you're Scottish. My daughter's

17:47

Scottish. My daughter's Scottish. Yeah. I

17:49

might need to think well. Thank you. I

17:52

need to actually really acknowledge this as

17:54

a true thing,

17:57

part of you. But me too. I

18:00

mean, I kind of like the fantasy of it. I

18:02

was like, yeah, yeah, I'm half-scotched. And I always loved

18:04

it than I was. But knowing more about it, you're

18:06

really like, no, this actually means something to me. Yeah.

18:09

My ancestors are from here. Yeah, and you look

18:11

like them. And I look like them. And

18:14

I'm actually the first born, because my dad

18:16

is the youngest, but because they had me

18:18

so young, my dad's siblings

18:20

went on to have more children. So I have,

18:22

like, eight cousins, but I'm actually

18:24

the oldest. Oh, my God, that's

18:27

wild. As Franny's first grandchild. Oh,

18:29

my God. So, yeah. It was

18:31

really, like, mad to meet them all at

18:33

once. I really do recommend

18:35

it if you don't know your other side,

18:38

if you have the opportunity to, like,

18:40

find them. Find them and find out

18:42

more. Then go find them. Deep shit.

18:45

Hello. Hey! Do you know

18:47

what we just got here? This

18:49

is my daughter-in-law now. I did. We

18:52

just ordered all the food, Lorna. I'll be alright. My

18:55

mum loves a calf. I love a calf. And

18:58

Mum grew up and suffered

19:00

with my Caribbean, antiquing grandparents,

19:03

right? And Caribbean people

19:05

of that generation didn't go out to

19:07

eat. No, no. We call it outside

19:09

food. Right. You don't really eat outside

19:11

food. That generation, they were like, who's

19:14

cooked it? Where

19:16

did they wash their hands? Yeah. Who's

19:18

cooked it? And I don't know them,

19:21

basically. So they're very, very weird about

19:23

eating. So you will eat at, like,

19:25

a wedding or a funeral or a

19:27

party or christening or something. Or

19:29

you will go somewhere where you know the people who are

19:31

cooking the food. But you don't really go... To

19:33

a restaurant. So much. I'd never been

19:35

to a calf at all. Yeah. So then when Mum was in

19:37

her 20s, what thing? No, I was like, the first time I

19:40

ever saw a calf, I was about 17. No,

19:42

15 or something. And it was

19:44

in Bury. With the town, they didn't know what level.

19:46

I'd just never seen one. And I was like, what's

19:48

that place? And they were like, it's a calf. I

19:50

was like, what do you mean? And

19:53

they went, what do you mean? I was going,

19:55

what's a calf? I don't understand. I

19:57

just had never really... It just hadn't ever entered my

19:59

consciousness. and they went, and I was like,

20:01

got roast chicken. And then she

20:03

saw the menu in her life that she was...

20:05

And I was like, wait, you can come here

20:08

any day, like, Monday into Sunday,

20:10

and just get, like, a roast. Are you

20:12

shitting me? I was

20:14

like, how has nobody ever shared this information

20:16

with me? I think that's when the love

20:18

affair began. And then I realised you

20:20

could change up the roast potatoes from Ashley to feel

20:22

like it, and it was, like, a whole revelation.

20:26

And so, well, the reason I was saying it is because this

20:28

calf, we've been told a little

20:30

bit about the history of it, but

20:32

this kind of old school, particularly Italian,

20:34

yeah, sort of Anglo calf. Yeah. Was

20:36

everywhere in London, and we

20:38

don't really have them anymore. So, not

20:41

like this. These calves like this were

20:43

all over Soho. There were

20:45

loads and loads and loads and we used to go

20:47

before we went out to come. And they've all... Nice.

20:49

But where are you from, though, Lorna? Little

20:52

village called Dallas, near a town called Torres

20:54

up near Inverness. Dallas? Yes. Like Texas. Yeah,

20:56

well, they could change the cause. Yeah, of

20:59

course. Of course they did. Like, everywhere. Yeah,

21:01

they did. Like, everywhere in America. Right,

21:04

so we're going to Inverness, actually.

21:06

What does Inverness look like? A

21:09

small town, small, kind of friendly, quite

21:11

quiet town. And what was going

21:13

on in your life when you were

21:15

growing up there that

21:18

made you want to be part of food?

21:20

The veggie to food. Yeah, food. No, it's nothing, really.

21:22

I never really... It wasn't really in food or anything

21:24

like that. My uncle had a garden. It was quite

21:26

nice when we were younger. We used to go up

21:28

and steal their ass berries or take the peas and

21:30

eat all that, so that went really nice. But other

21:33

than that, there was nothing really food-wise. It

21:35

was just kind of fell into it more than anything. Did

21:37

you go out to eat and stuff when you were a

21:39

kid? Yes, we did. Again, a

21:41

place in Inverness called... The

21:43

Castle, I think it was called. But I would always just

21:45

get a Chinese curry. Don't remember what I meant. I want

21:47

a Chinese curry and an ice cream flume. Yeah.

21:50

Chinese curry and an ice cream flume.

21:52

That sounds like indigestion. That's something you

21:54

could get in Scotland quite a lot

21:56

easily, though. Yeah, definitely. What's your first

21:58

food work, then? How old were you?

22:00

I was 16 as a KP. I

22:03

was doing kitchen quarter work, working in a small

22:05

Italian-run family restaurant and then just kind of worked

22:08

from there. Where was that? In

22:10

Voorhees, a small town where I'm from. Right. Worked

22:13

there for five years. I

22:16

was there at school, wasn't very academic, and then

22:18

they basically said to me, I tried to get

22:20

into photography school. They'd get into photography school, head

22:22

ship, they'd go, Cook, you enjoy it. I was

22:24

like, I don't enjoy it. And he was like,

22:26

should she go and do it? So

22:28

anyway, nothing else to do. So I was like,

22:30

may as well. So I started cooking and fell

22:33

in love with it. And I was quite good

22:35

at it. That's interesting, especially if you started as

22:37

a KP. Yeah. Felt in love with it. Yeah.

22:39

That's like the hard-grafty bit of the backburn. So

22:41

I picked parsley and scrub pots and whatnot. Yeah.

22:43

It was great. So I think what I liked

22:45

was the kind of camaraderie of the

22:47

kitchen and the teamwork, and the kind of full-on

22:49

adrenaline. It's always a bit kind of like at school, wasn't allowed

22:52

to talk. He was like, nah, I like to talk. I like

22:54

to get involved and just do that. So I think when you're

22:56

in a kitchen, you tend to kind

22:58

of fall in love with the environment more than

23:00

anything, and then that kind of brings on everything

23:02

else. Look at this scenario. So much. Thank you.

23:05

There's the sausage. Thank you. And this is

23:07

the peas and vinegar. So maybe

23:09

it's the Scottish in me, but I always put vinegar in

23:11

my mushy peas. So is

23:14

that very, very Scottish? I

23:16

hear a lot of people up here, not up my way, it's not

23:18

a lot of people are going to ask me. I never had peas

23:20

and vinegar other until I came here. And the guys at work who

23:22

are baking mushy peas at work, they all put vinegar in them. And

23:25

I'm like, why'd you do that? I said, that's what you do. Where

23:27

did you train, Spain? When did you... So when

23:30

you started? Andrew Fairley. I

23:32

see Andrew Fairley. So that's kind of like where I

23:34

would say that I found the respect for food and

23:36

the love for food and the kind of appreciation of

23:38

lots of Scottish ingredients, because he was really into that.

23:40

He was really not pushed on to it, but you

23:43

know, like you absorbed everything that he loved and kind

23:45

of that's where I would say I really became

23:48

more into my food and work. And

23:50

what did... Because historically, just

23:52

like English food, Scottish food has got quite a bad

23:54

rep. Yeah. In terms of the way people talk about

23:56

it, it's like this grey idea of like, you can

23:58

keep fried Mars bars or whatever. and just like nothing

24:01

really. But what

24:03

is it that you picture, when you think

24:05

about Scottish food as a

24:07

kind of area of culinary beauty?

24:10

Seafood, to be honest with you. I think

24:12

great, best shellfish in the world, in my

24:14

opinion. But the great scallops, crab, langsties, stuff

24:16

that comes through our door at work is

24:18

just phenomenal. So if anything with the Scottish

24:20

food, I would say seafood's kind of like

24:22

where you want to go. But mainly the

24:25

kind of shellfish, more than anything, I would

24:27

say. And do you know anything about

24:29

the history of Scottish food? Because I was wondering like, what

24:32

things, what, because in the Caribbean, produce,

24:35

local produce is really undervalued because of

24:37

the huge industry of

24:40

tourism and importing everything from America. And are

24:42

there places or is it mainly America? It's

24:45

mainly America. And so that's why everything can

24:47

be so expensive. But I feel like in

24:49

the Scotland, there's a real

24:51

pride in produce and a real value

24:54

to the produce here. So what

24:56

were people eating like 100 years

24:58

ago in Scotland? I mean, I think I would mainly

25:00

say, it was just like that is cabbage kind of

25:02

stewed. There's

25:05

a thing up my way called a buttery, or some

25:07

people call it a roe. So

25:09

basically it is a stale

25:12

roll, almost. It's a roll and it's made

25:14

with, it's almost similar to a puff pastry.

25:16

There's lots of lard in it, lots of

25:18

fat in it, and then pastry. It's basically,

25:20

it was designed for people to take to

25:22

war with them because it was like a

25:24

bread roll that did go off. Right, because

25:26

of its fat. So you would take

25:28

these kind of like hard rolls that you

25:30

would take to war with you. It's very popular

25:32

my way to put these, the

25:34

toaster, put it in the oven and put

25:37

jam on them or put more butter on

25:39

them. So are they quite sort of flaky

25:41

layered? Flat, very flaky. And what's it called?

25:43

Buttery. A buttery. Buttery.

25:46

Oh, that's so nice. A buttery.

25:49

So before your

25:51

Great British Menu journey, did

25:54

you already have? Sorry. I always

25:57

feel like I have to put it. The chef

25:59

throws me so. You're such a kind of the ringer,

26:01

you really do, don't you? It's

26:04

unfilliantly there, obviously, and you become a veteran and all

26:06

the rest of it, but it's a long, old slog

26:08

of a thing, isn't it? Yeah, it's hard, it's difficult.

26:10

There's so much, you know, it is about the food,

26:12

but there's other things that come in, it takes you

26:15

about your theme and you've got all the things you've

26:17

got, trying like basic language. It is very, very different,

26:19

Bob, but it's a lot of fun

26:21

as well, and you get to meet a lot of other

26:23

chefs, I think, and I think that's really amazing, because you

26:25

see lots of different types of styles of food. Like

26:28

myself, well, maybe they're trained in one

26:30

place and you get to see all these different

26:32

styles. There's lots of interesting people, like it's not

26:34

all, you should have started chefs, and there's lots

26:37

of really interesting people in there, which I think

26:39

is great. Yeah, it does feel like one big

26:41

chef party, doesn't it? It's like your annual reunion.

26:43

It's like a stressed out chef bar. Yeah, it's

26:45

like a chef bar. Did

26:49

you have, you already

26:51

were a head chef at

26:53

your own restaurant and then you went

26:55

into GBM? No, I was a sous chef and a

26:57

two-star at the time. Did GBM need you to jump

27:00

in? Yeah, I mean, when Chef Anya's

27:02

still alive, there's kind of like, he always had given

27:04

me little things to keep me in, to keep me

27:06

progressing, and all, do you have anything along with the

27:08

likes to do this? Yes, I love to do that,

27:10

and all these sort of things. So then I got

27:12

to a point where I was like, they're ready for

27:14

the next step, and I think

27:16

GBM helped heighten my profile so people kind

27:18

of knew who I was, and

27:20

I might be cooking and stuff with that for

27:23

the next journey, and then obviously, I was approached

27:25

by the owners of Kale Blue, and they went

27:27

there. And so that's why you moved there, because

27:29

I guess it was a big leap, because you

27:31

were with Andrew Ferdy for a long time, weren't

27:33

you? And then he passed away. So

27:36

it seemed like it was the moment the universe

27:38

was telling you, I guess, as well. Yeah, thank

27:41

you. Thank you for everything. to

27:43

the great, you know, style of food, and understanding

27:45

yourself a bit more. Yeah. What

27:47

you see food as almost. That's really interesting, because so

27:49

often there's this conversation that people have of like, we

27:51

need to see your personality on the plate. How many

27:54

times do you have that? I've got a wife and

27:56

a daughter, she's a great meat owner. And

27:58

all over the place, really. and sometimes it can be

28:00

hard to work out. You know what

28:02

you mean. How to get that transfer that onto a

28:05

plate is a very, it's a big transition for a

28:07

chef, isn't it? Yeah. Do you feel

28:09

like you're there now? Yeah, definitely. And what is that

28:11

then? I mean, I was thinking

28:13

style-wise, it's, I kind of, in the

28:15

restaurant, there's like food how I expect

28:17

people to eat it. So you don't tell people how to

28:19

eat, but there's a lot of my food that I think

28:21

to build up of layers of flavour and you kind of,

28:24

when you eat my food, there's no other way to eat

28:26

it other than to have every bit at the same time.

28:28

So you can taste it all and then, because something might

28:30

be salty and then something's really acidic, but to eat it

28:32

all is one, then you experience that, whereas I feel

28:35

like we put lots of little bits everywhere and

28:37

taste a bit of that. That's a bit salty.

28:39

Yeah, yeah. So it's being experienced as a dish.

28:41

I think that the style of

28:43

food is very much Scottish food, really. So

28:46

what you'd influence, nice and fresh and

28:48

light, but then the way in which I've played, it's

28:50

a big part of it, I would say. And when

28:52

you say Scottish food, so you're dealing with a lot

28:54

of seafood then? Yeah, lots of seafood, yeah. Scottish seafood,

28:56

great game. Game, seafood's just

28:58

about to start. Oh, game. What's

29:01

your favorite game to work with? I

29:03

do quite like quail. Well,

29:05

my favorite is Blue Mountain here. Wow.

29:08

Here up here. Blue Mountain, I don't know

29:11

what that is. Yeah, I mean, basically, they kind

29:13

of, they live up mountains, obviously, and then in

29:15

the winter, they tend to be all white to camouflage

29:17

themselves, and the summer they come further down the

29:19

hills and they get this little bit of brown

29:21

tail so that you can recognize them more and stuff

29:23

like that. Yeah, and hunt them. Yeah,

29:26

hunt them. Yeah, it's delicious. And

29:29

does it feel liberating for you then to finally

29:31

be head chef and running your own? Yeah, it's

29:33

great. I love it. I've been a massive lover

29:36

of my teeth and knowing that you can't do anything about your

29:38

team, which is great, and just

29:40

being able to create your own food and change styles

29:43

and find new ingredients. It's nice because I was maybe

29:46

sometimes restricted to where I was before, but now I

29:48

can order loads of things and taste loads of things.

29:51

Not with my food creation at all, but

29:53

there's so many little seasonings of things you

29:55

can put in things from Asian flavours to

29:57

Indian. Yeah, yeah, interesting to develop your own

29:59

palette. Using different... in like new ingredients perhaps

30:01

to you and experimenting with lots of different ways

30:03

of cooking and learning all the time I guess.

30:05

Yeah that's it. I think that's the best thing

30:07

about this job is there's no idea that you

30:10

don't own something you know. That's really nice. I

30:12

mean there's got to be because we were talking

30:14

to Roberta in in Edinburgh Hall.

30:17

Yeah. And now she's

30:19

married to Sean they're running it together and they

30:22

have a two-year-old and I was just like what

30:24

the hell what keeps because I grew up around

30:26

chefs and like all my family as chefs. What

30:29

keeps you in the kitchen because I mean it's

30:31

you got to love it. Yeah that's it. I

30:33

love it. That's cool. It keeps me there. I

30:35

do. I love it and it's just I don't

30:37

I can't explain it other than

30:39

I love it. I love creating food. I love talking

30:41

to people. I love eating food like everything. I can't

30:43

like I don't think when you didn't love it

30:45

you wouldn't do it. No you can't because

30:47

it's really hard. Yeah. Why would you put

30:50

yourself through that? You actually love it. Look

30:52

at that knickerbocker. Shall we swap out for that?

30:55

I think we should swap sausage out for knickerbocker.

30:57

Yes. Shall we

31:00

talk the audience through? The world

31:02

through what? A knickerbocker? So it's

31:04

tins through. Yummy. And then

31:06

what? Ice cream. Right. It's not like a

31:09

trifle. Exactly. It's like a trifle in a

31:11

class. Trifle in a class isn't it really?

31:14

What a party. I

31:19

need to get the iron brew. Okay

31:22

could you explain it to us? The iron

31:24

brew is like it's a biolinette or a

31:26

behind-rober especially. Made from gantas. I

31:30

agree and research. 1901 it's

31:32

old. Is it that old? Yeah. Yeah so 125, 24

31:35

years old. What?

31:39

I agree. God I did

31:41

not know that. Oh the recipes are

31:43

closely guarded secret. I mean I would

31:45

imagine it's sugar.

31:49

I didn't guess I would. I'm

31:51

going to say it's sugar, some

31:54

sort of water, ox,

31:56

you know gas and some

31:58

preservatives. Delicious,

32:01

orange, fizzy, health-giving, life-saving,

32:04

really, in some cases,

32:06

life-saving. Life-saving is definitely the

32:08

word. I mean, I have had an iambre when I

32:10

had to hang over and it was just like, praise

32:12

Jesus. Yeah. It could have turned

32:14

me into a Christian. It is. All that sugar and all

32:16

that food. I mean, that's a good

32:18

sound, isn't it? So, is that whisky's official drink?

32:20

Yeah, class. iambreux second. It's

32:23

one of the few places in the world where a local drink

32:26

outsells stuff like Coca-Cola. Oh, that is good. Oh, my God, look

32:28

at their colour, though. Wow. This

32:30

is must be very good for you as well. So,

32:34

I want to ask this, actually. Glasgow is not

32:36

the first place one imagines. It's

32:38

like, got a really thriving feeling because

32:40

people don't really know much about Glasgow

32:42

and what modern Glasgow really looks like

32:44

and feels like. So, talk to us

32:46

a little bit about what the

32:48

food world looks like here. Yeah, what's it

32:50

saying? I think basically, as you see, at

32:52

the gas school, we've got a bit of a worse-retting sense of like,

32:55

edibles. Yeah, edibles got a more upper class, I

32:57

would guess. But actually, we've come

32:59

to Glasgow. There's lots of great places, lots

33:01

of variety. You've got loads

33:03

of different cultural restaurants, tapas places.

33:06

You know, it's just massive, lots of nice, really bakeries. I

33:08

just don't think that, I think people just think of Glasgow

33:10

as maybe a bit more of a peasant's

33:13

place, which I don't think it actually is if

33:15

you get into the nits and grits of it.

33:17

Glasgow's got way more character and

33:19

it's very much a people place in it than everywhere

33:21

else. Yeah. So, I told you.

33:23

But the glass can't chat. I'm

33:26

here for it. I'm here for it. I

33:29

think it's because Glasgow is historically quite

33:31

an up city that people underestimate. Yes.

33:34

And people underestimate the people. So, I think

33:36

the people then sort of fight with pride

33:38

to their city and their identity and their

33:40

ideas about who they are. And really, because

33:43

you've got this constantly having to battle this

33:45

idea of being less than and

33:48

not quite good enough and a little bit bit

33:50

shit. Yeah. Even though it's not. And

33:55

I always loved it because Glaswegians, it's like, if you get on

33:57

stage and you're good, the glass is good. weekends

34:00

will give you the best time

34:02

of your life they love it you know. Yeah,

34:04

is that when we won the Star and Kill

34:06

Ruth it was not just our team you were

34:08

happy the whole of Glasgow was like oh

34:11

yeah you see like honestly everyone like it's

34:14

very you know you're there for like your

34:16

city your town your country yeah it's very

34:18

massive. And you're a mum now. Oh

34:20

yes. Oh you're a mum as well. Sorry as well as your baby.

34:22

Did you have a girl or a boy? A boy. And

34:25

how old is he? 16 months now.

34:27

Goodness. Okay now okay really. The last time I

34:29

saw you you were just pregnant. Yeah. Really

34:32

Lorna how are you doing that how are you

34:34

managing to be a head chef at a busy

34:36

restaurant and raise a 16 month old. Yeah I

34:39

mean it's difficult but as I say I have

34:41

a great team so when you have a great

34:43

team around you then it makes life better and

34:45

easier and I have another mum at home as

34:47

well so it makes it even better times. Yeah

34:49

so and are you able to step away from

34:51

the kitchen go right I'm going home now to

34:53

my family and I've got my team and I'll

34:55

leave you to it because how are your control

34:57

issues is what I'm asking. I mean to be

35:00

fair that is a little bit bit difficult because

35:02

I think actually we're good to go to a

35:04

new head. I

35:07

do quite often see every day guys we're all good

35:09

tonight you want to go home and I'm like yeah.

35:11

Yeah I might not stay for that one. You

35:15

guys are like there is an addiction to

35:17

the adrenaline and you know what you were

35:19

saying is about finding that early

35:21

when you first got in the kitchen I think

35:23

once you find that you're always searching we were

35:25

saying searching for that kind of first moment you

35:28

found like a truck it's like oh god this

35:30

is that place that first walked into a way

35:32

what the fuck is this I love it. So

35:35

I think it's like returning to that feeling of I

35:37

finally found the place for all of my energy. Yes

35:40

exactly. But also I think you know you're talking

35:42

about you know you've finally got your personality onto

35:44

the plate you've got your style you've got your

35:46

thing and it's like it's like it's like your

35:48

own babies it's like you know

35:51

when you the foods on the pasta it's going

35:53

really beautifully and everything's coming out well and at

35:55

the you can see people being transformed we talked

35:57

to Roberta about this yesterday when it seems like

35:59

days ago. There's nothing like

36:01

that, you know, getting it out of

36:03

your head and onto the plane and

36:05

then into somebody's mouth. Yeah, and then

36:07

hearing their feedback, telling you, oh that

36:09

was delicious. It makes you

36:12

proud, it's like your baby, everyone's loving

36:14

it, you feel so happy and content.

36:17

Great service is like a good dance, isn't it? Yes.

36:20

Glowing. Lorna, thanks for coming to see us,

36:22

darling. Thank you, Lorna! Lorna McNeill

36:24

in normal people's clothes. I've never seen her

36:27

in anything except chef's wipes. They

36:30

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is served. Shop in-store or

37:47

online today. www.ashleysmallspace.com