0:28

Hello. You might not remember

0:30

us. It's stories of strangeness

0:33

we've been away for a while, but now we're back. Yeah.

0:36

Yes. Basically we got COVID

0:39

the entire family got COVID.

0:41

got COVID. Yeah, but we haven't been like, we didn't have COVID for two months.

0:44

I was about to explain. We got COVID

0:47

and then,

0:48

then, it was

0:49

then it was Easter

0:50

and then we just kind of forgot.

0:51

and then we just kind of stopped. Yeah. It was just really difficult to get

0:53

the kind of the inertia

0:55

Yeah. which was really difficult to get the, kinda the inertia going It's it's a very, it was been a very, very busy.

0:57

couple of weeks for various reasons.

1:00

life life got in the way a couple of weeks.

1:02

It's been a couple of months anyway. It

1:04

has

1:04

better than it is,

1:05

us, but we did take a bit of a break. I

1:07

got a bit burnt out from the

1:10

constant

1:10

and I was just busy

1:11

and stuff. So yeah, we took a, we took

1:13

a bit longer a break and we, we did go a bit

1:15

radio silence, so apologies. But

1:18

we're back.

1:19

Yep.

1:19

And possibly better than ever

1:22

probably worse, But one of the plus

1:24

points is, yeah. Like I did all of this

1:27

research all that time ago. Yeah.

1:29

And the way my brain works is I do

1:31

the research and I love it and I know loads about

1:33

it, but as soon as I start thinking about something else. I completely

1:36

forget everything. Yes. So this is

1:38

probably gonna be a surprise for me as well.

1:40

I'm just gonna really

1:41

I'm just gonna read it out and be going really? What,

1:43

so basically what we're gonna do as a,

1:45

as a bit of a we're sorry. We were away

1:47

for so long is we're gonna bundle together

1:50

a maxi episode and a Minnesota. So

1:52

Zoe's gonna do the maxi episode and I'm gonna

1:54

do the Minnesota and you're gonna get it all in one

1:57

mega

1:58

and then we're gonna have a little nap.

1:59

Yeah. And we've decided to record

2:02

and come back to this on the hottest day

2:04

of the year.

2:05

year.

2:05

So,

2:06

yeah. so

2:07

might be able to hear a little bit of background noise cuz

2:09

we've we have our patio doors open. Otherwise

2:11

we would just, this would be a sweat box.

2:14

It would

2:14

And I might sneeze. I've got really bad. hay fever.

2:16

Yeah. and the cat's probably gonna shout

2:18

because you know, that's what she

2:20

so just the, the, the kind of regular,

2:23

you know awful production values

2:25

that we're known for.

2:27

oh, I need a drink. It's too early for drinking

2:29

though. Cause we're doing it in the middle of the day. Yeah.

2:31

Yeah we are. Yeah. Yeah. So

2:33

you might be able to hear cars and slamming

2:35

doors and stuff, but anyway, enough

2:37

of all that let's get on with it.

2:40

So yeah. This is episode 46

2:43

of stories of strangeness and it's a Zoey

2:45

episode.

2:46

It is. So before I get into the story

2:49

this is actually an episode that is dedicated

2:51

to our lovely friends, Becky and Tom

2:54

and Becky messaged me and was like, have

2:56

you heard of this? You have to have heard of it, Tom.

2:58

Hasn't heard of And I don't think

3:00

you'd heard of it either.

3:02

Literally don't remember what you're doing. So

3:04

exactly. So I'm

3:06

doing Jeff, the mongoose. Do

3:09

you remember It

3:09

It rings a bell, Jeff, the Mongo.

3:10

the mongoose. So yeah, apparently Tom

3:13

didn't believe it was a real thing. It

3:15

is, right? Or is. they

3:18

are is it be so I'm

3:20

gonna explain it all to you and,

3:22

and see what you think.

3:24

lovely

3:24

Okay. in the early 1930s,

3:28

the British newspapers began covering

3:30

a very strange story. The

3:32

Irving family from the is of man

3:34

were making some very odd claims

3:37

and no, one really knew what to make of

3:39

it. I

3:41

do like your, mm. I

3:44

will take that into

3:45

Yeah So I will muse

3:48

on this further and get back to.

3:49

Indeed In 1931

3:52

James known as Jim and

3:55

Margaret Irving, 58

3:58

and 54. Respectively. Not sure why their age

4:00

is important, but I've put it in there. out I dunno how to

4:02

say her name? I never actually, what it,

4:04

what was it?

4:05

the daughter's name? vori

4:08

V O I double

4:10

R

4:12

Vare

4:13

from the of man. Frenchly.

4:16

Not ever. So, I

4:17

mean, they might, have be, we

4:18

they might have French descendants. I dunno. Vori

4:21

vori vori vori, VA, VA Vare.

4:24

Yeah. I dunno.

4:25

gonna call Avory. Yeah, because I'm from the

4:27

fence, and that's how it sounds VO.

4:31

Jim

4:32

VO Jim Margaret, Margaret put the

4:34

cat on Margaret.

4:36

Oh, let's have a nice cup of tea.

4:38

Oh, in it, right?

4:40

Okay. Let's go again.

4:41

Yep.

4:42

In 1931, James

4:45

and no Ock and bass

4:48

bass. I always say ask, right Ock

4:50

and bass. ums. the

4:52

bit between the ass and the bollock in

4:53

it.

4:54

Fuck. So out of practice, actually

4:57

concentrating In 1931,

5:00

James known as Jim and

5:02

his wife Margaret Irving, and

5:04

their 13 year old daughter, vori lived

5:07

in a farmhouse near the small village of

5:09

Doby on the olive man. I'm

5:12

sorry for the weird pauses, but obviously it's been a while

5:14

since I wrote this So my flow is not there. Life

5:18

was hard. for them. They had moved

5:20

there after Jim's previous business had failed.

5:23

the house had no electricity and no running

5:25

water in September of 1931,

5:29

the family began to experience things. in their

5:31

home. At first the disturbance

5:33

was a tap tap, tap with little scratching

5:36

sounds in the walls, which could

5:38

have easily have been rats, but it

5:40

soon developed into hissing

5:42

and spitting and even a baby

5:44

crying or children singing

5:47

soon, the entity living within their walls

5:49

made itself known. it

5:52

began to speak. It introduced

5:54

itself as Jeff. Jeff

5:56

told them I was born

5:59

near deli India on

6:01

June the seventh, 1852.

6:04

I have been shot at by Indians.

6:07

I am a marsh mongoose.

6:10

So today I'm telling you about Jeff, the

6:12

mongoose also known as

6:14

the DBI spook. Jeff

6:16

referred. to himself as An extra

6:18

clever mongoose, an

6:20

earthbound spirit and

6:23

a ghost. in the form of a weasel. I

6:26

know he

6:28

would often converse, with the family, but

6:31

it was only voy who claimed to have actually

6:33

seen. him. She described

6:35

him as being the size of a small rat

6:37

with yellowish, fur and a big

6:40

bushy tail. but Jeff also

6:42

claimed to be a shapeshifter who

6:45

could also become, invisible. he

6:47

told the family, he could speak French,

6:49

German, Yiddish, Spanish, Flemish

6:52

and Hebrew, as well as English.

6:55

and he as well, indeed, this what? Definitely a clever Mon goose.

6:56

Indeed. Jeff couldn't really

6:58

settle on what he actually was

7:01

on one occasion he told the family, I

7:03

am not a spirit. I am

7:05

a little extra, extra clever

7:07

mongoose, but on another

7:09

occasion. he said, I am a ghost

7:12

in the form of a mongoose, and I shall

7:14

haunt you with weird noises,

7:16

and clanking chains. He

7:19

was also quoted as saying, I am a freak.

7:22

I have hands and I have feet.

7:25

And if you saw me he would faint.

7:27

You'd be petrified mummified, and

7:30

turned into stone or a pillar of salt,

7:33

except the voice saw him and nothing like

7:35

that happened to her.

7:36

Indeed. But maybe that wasn't his true form. I'll

7:39

split the, atom. I

7:41

am the fifth. dimension.

7:44

I am the eighth wonder of the world.

7:47

He always seemed. to have a lot to say

7:49

Hmm. Bit self-aggrandizing

7:51

yes, indeed. there was an occasion in

7:54

1932 that Jim noticed

7:56

a large orange cat on his property.

8:00

he described it. as being striped, like

8:02

a tiger, realizing

8:04

that this wasn't an ordinary cat. Jim

8:07

did what most folks did in those days and

8:09

Grabbed his, gun and he followed

8:11

it all the way out, into a field. But

8:14

as he followed it around a corner it disappeared

8:17

later, Jim told Margaret what

8:20

he had seen. The Cat was

8:22

a little ahead of me, but easily

8:24

within range. And it turned through

8:26

an open gateway into a grass

8:28

field. I was there a few

8:30

seconds behind and fully

8:33

expected to see the cat, but no cat

8:35

could be seen. Look, as I

8:37

liked, the field was and

8:39

there was not a Bush or any

8:42

roughness where he could have hidden and

8:44

the hedges were all earth and

8:46

so as they are I

8:49

detailed my experience to my wife

8:52

on her return that then Jeff

8:54

called out. It was me. You saw

8:56

Jim, this was one of the very

8:58

few times that Jeff Was visible to

9:00

anyone, but VO, Jeff

9:03

was an interesting house He

9:05

supposedly guarded the house and the

9:07

family letting them know when people or dogs

9:09

got too close. he would also

9:12

ensure that the fires were, put out at night

9:14

and that the family were woken up. If they over slept,

9:17

the family left out food for Jeff, he had

9:20

a sor that was suspended from the ceiling.

9:22

They left biscuits chocolate and

9:25

fruit out for, and he would take

9:27

the food. When no one else was watching. Jeff

9:29

would often travel, with the family when they

9:32

went to market, he would talk

9:34

to them from behind the hedge as they went. news

9:37

spread and people couldn't seem to get enough of

9:39

this talkative little creature journalists,

9:42

visited the aisle, looking for,

9:44

Jeff and wanting to talk to, the family.

9:47

Several people, both locals

9:49

and visitors claimed to have heard him. and

9:52

two said they actually saw him. Jeff's

9:55

first appearance in the mainland. Newspapers

9:57

was an article. in the day. Dispatch

9:59

of Manchester, in 1932,

10:02

the reporter wrote Had I heard

10:04

a weasel speak? I do not

10:06

know. but I do know that I have

10:08

heard today a voice which I

10:10

should never have imagined, could issue

10:13

from a human throat. that

10:15

the people who claim it was the voice

10:17

of the strange weasel seemed sane, honest

10:19

and reasonable, folk are not likely

10:22

to indulge in a difficult, long

10:24

drawn out. and unprofitable, practical joke,

10:27

to Make themselves, the talk of the world and

10:29

that others have had the same experience.

10:31

as myself. It wasn't long before

10:33

folks wanted, more. they

10:35

wanted proof in 1935

10:39

Harry Price, as you may remember,

10:42

remember. Yeah. And

10:42

and Richard S Lambert

10:44

visited the, family to find that proof

10:48

fur was sent for testing, but was

10:50

found to be that of the Irving's dog. Mona

10:53

poor prince were sent to the natural history museum,

10:56

along with bite marks but they didn't

10:58

seem to match any known animal, but

11:00

they could have been made None

11:02

of the marks were made by a mongoose.

11:06

It was noted during this visit that

11:08

the walls of the farmhouse had a lot

11:10

of crawl space which, and. I quote

11:12

makes the whole house one great

11:15

speaking tube with walls,

11:17

like soundboards, By speaking

11:19

into one of the many apertures in the panels,

11:22

it was possible to convey a voice to

11:24

various parts of the house. Harry

11:27

Price. later wrote a book called the haunting

11:30

of Cain's gap. He himself,

11:32

wouldn't say he believed the tale of Jeff, the

11:34

mongoose as he didn't hear or

11:36

see him himself. But he did

11:38

say you could see no reason for

11:40

the family to lie. So

11:43

Who or what was Jeff? as

11:45

you can Imagine there are many, theories. it

11:47

was widely believed that it was the daughter

11:50

who had brought the character of Jeff to life

11:52

and that she was a highly skilled.

11:55

ventriloquist. Cause again,

11:57

that was popular at the time. I'm guessing

12:00

you might be seeing similarities between

12:02

this, and the bell witch.

12:04

Yeah. Yeah.

12:06

is something I picked up on When, while

12:08

I was doing my research, I vaguely remember that Anyway,

12:11

I shall continue. and we can touch on that again

12:14

in a bit Another researcher from the

12:16

international Institute for psychical

12:18

research Nandor What

12:21

a name Believed that Jeff

12:23

was a split off part of Jim,

12:26

Irving's personality. some

12:28

investigators did believe it was a ghost

12:31

or a Poltergeist. Apparently

12:33

there is a small chance. It could have been a mongoose

12:36

as a neighboring farm introduced

12:38

them, as control for the rabbit population,

12:41

all well and good, but they don't normally talk.

12:45

Yeah. It could have been a

12:47

Mongo. What are you talking about? It could have been a

12:49

bloody Mongo.

12:50

Apparently they used them to, you know, go

12:53

after rabbits and clear rabbits, but again

12:56

I know, but what if she was a ventriloquist

12:59

and she just got

13:01

bored. I mean, Christ she's been shipped out

13:03

to the olive band. She's 13. I

13:07

mean, what did you do when you were 13? Now? you were probably

13:09

up the pub getting drunk. Weren't you?

13:11

no, that was when I was 14,

13:12

Okay, so you were prepping yeah. Combining

13:14

your bitch. anyway.

13:20

by the late 1930s Jeff's

13:22

visits were less frequent. And

13:24

when Jim died in 1944,

13:27

both Margaret and bore left, the farm and

13:29

moved to the mainland, they sold

13:31

the farm to an actor called Leslie

13:34

Graham. I'm not

13:36

kind of rings a bell, but I dunno if I'm just

13:38

thinking that

13:39

you might be thinking of Leslie Grantham. That was

13:41

Dirty den. No.

13:42

He once went into a shop. I worked at though. Did

13:44

he Yeah, but I wasn't there that

13:46

Ah, that's Nice

13:48

story. Yeah.

13:49

Good

13:49

Good. Anyway. So

13:52

this Leslie Graham, in 1947,

13:55

trapped and killed an animal he

13:57

could not identify as neither

14:00

ferret St nor weasel

14:02

Mongo.

14:03

It seemed like the country life wasn't for him anyway.

14:06

and he left the farm a few years later. and The

14:08

farmhouse was

14:10

Yeah. Well, alright. Fair enough. I mean, that's a bit

14:12

extreme. Like it's not like it

14:14

was a giant spider.

14:15

feel like, I feel like moving to the country

14:18

actually. No. Oh, there's there's a, knock it down.

14:20

Knock it all down.

14:22

probably a Badger, you know, he's like, what

14:24

is this fucking weird stripy creature?

14:27

Oh, no, I

14:27

like it

14:28

knock the whole thing down um but

14:33

anyway when interviewed in 1970

14:35

boy, he still held that the story of Jeff,

14:37

the mongoose lived in her home.

14:40

But she also said she wished that he'd left them

14:42

alone. She died in 2005

14:45

and never changed her story.

14:47

Mm.

14:48

so just some random notes and other bits that I've written

14:50

down here.

14:51

Yeah.

14:52

Yeah. The mongoose, Jeff claimed to be

14:54

in the description that, vori described

14:57

yeah. Do not match at all. Right. And

14:59

Indian mongoose is much larger than a rat

15:01

and doesn't have a fluffy tail. His

15:03

quotes though. I've got more

15:05

and they're amazing. Okay.

15:06

Okay.

15:07

I am not evil. I could

15:10

be if I wanted. You

15:12

you don't know what damage or harm I could do.

15:14

If I was rased I

15:16

could kill you all. but I won't.

15:19

Oh, well that's excuse me. It's very generous

15:21

of you, Jeff. Thank you.

15:23

if you knew what I know, you'd

15:25

know a hell of a lot.

15:27

Okay.

15:28

If you are kind to me, I will

15:30

bring you good luck. If you

15:33

are not kind, I shall kill all

15:35

your poultry. I can get them.

15:37

wherever you put them.

15:38

put. Okay. I

15:40

mean yeah

15:42

yeah. Be nice. Or I'll kill you chickens. Yeah.

15:45

Maybe it was a Fox. a Really

15:47

skinny,

15:48

small IO

15:49

Bino Fox still doesn't quite explain the whole

15:50

still doesn't quite explain

15:52

the whole talking thing. Really.

15:55

That's that's the one real problem we've got with

15:57

identifying what animal is they still shouldn't

15:59

be able to talk. Okay,

16:00

we go. It's it's Very judgmental. I

16:03

have been to nicer homes than this.

16:06

carpet, piano. Sating

16:08

covers on polished tables.

16:11

I am going back there. Ha ha

16:14

well that's nice. So he turns

16:16

up, tells you to be nice to him and then insults you

16:18

and you home.

16:20

Well, Jim, what about some GBO

16:24

What you wanna be of chocolate, in your little dish. Here

16:26

we go. I like, I like captain Dennis

16:28

is bloody else. captain

16:29

Dennis.

16:31

probably missed him. out story? He was just a, I,

16:33

he must have just

16:34

random bystander

16:36

Some random bloke that came around. to have a look. I think

16:38

I like captain Dennis, but not Harry

16:41

Price. He's the man. who put the kibosh

16:43

on the spirits. Oh, this one's an

16:45

interesting one. Nuts. Put

16:47

a sock in it. Chew Coke. I'm

16:49

guessing he doesn't mean Coke, Coke.

16:52

He means more like leftover in the

16:54

fireplace Coke

16:55

maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe although,

16:57

you know, the thirties, you used to get prescribed

17:00

Coke for depression and stuff. So

17:02

who knows?

17:03

Oh God. Yeah. I thought that was opium.

17:06

Well, it's all sorts.

17:07

Who knows they were all off the tit back then. Weren't they?

17:09

Well, yeah, Freud was on Coke. Literally

17:12

wrote about it at one point.

17:13

Amazing. Okay. What have we got here?

17:16

I have three attractions. I

17:18

follow VO ma'am gives

17:20

me food, and Jim answers

17:23

my questions. I have

17:25

three spirits and their names

17:27

are fo faith. and truth.

17:30

And One of my favorites put

17:32

the bloody grammar phone on bloody. He grabbed my phone on, although

17:34

they didn't have electricity. So it must have been a wind up

17:37

one. Yeah. Crank, crank, But

17:39

Yeah. That's that's, that's what I've got.

17:41

Wow.

17:42

Wowza

17:43

Zaza Giza.

17:44

So there are actually photos or supposed

17:47

right Of of random Jeff

17:50

hairy bits hung up on places. fairy

17:53

fairy bits and um

17:55

I think there's a picture from when uh Leslie

17:57

Graham thought he'd um shot him.

17:59

He's like, you know, Here's my

18:01

thing. I shot. I dunno What it. is. Could

18:04

have been anything I

18:05

could have been anything. Yeah. Well,

18:07

I mean, not anything, cause I

18:09

don't think I was gonna say, I don't think mongoose

18:12

Mon geese mongooses. Mon

18:17

Mon GEA is I

18:20

dunno,

18:20

Mon geese,

18:21

Mon geese, Mon Monga pods

18:24

Monga pies,

18:25

Monga pie. Yeah. That must be it. Monga pie.

18:27

We're going

18:28

We'll go with that

18:28

that with that. Yeah. That's that's the new official

18:31

plural term for mongoose is

18:33

Monga pie. But they're not native to

18:35

this country. not. But you

18:37

said one of the farms introduced them

18:39

introduced. So maybe it was

18:41

a hybrid,

18:42

even if that is the case I

18:45

a mouse. I

18:46

don't think Mon Monga pie and

18:48

rats can

18:49

no I know to breed

18:50

but alright, whatever, but even,

18:52

yeah, it doesn't matter. We could, we could absolutely

18:54

positively identify it as a Mongo from a photo.

18:57

And that still doesn't explain how

18:59

it could bloody

19:00

talk, but also it seemed very

19:02

loquacious and

19:05

used some words that I wouldn't have expected

19:07

a 13 year old girl to come out with. I

19:09

D I dunno. I dunno. I, I kind of

19:11

get the feeling that people used to speak better

19:13

what you mean. they don't speak like

19:16

It's like, it's like, even if you, you watch

19:18

some cowboy movies and they come out with some

19:20

really interesting verbiage,

19:23

but you know, these days,

19:25

it's just, I want that, that

19:28

some food stuff in my

19:30

head. Yeah. And people

19:32

don't tend to. Be verbose

19:34

anymore, which I think

19:35

You're bringing out all of the long words to, to

19:37

prove a point aren't

19:39

I'm using long words, because they are the perfect

19:41

word for the situation,

19:43

which is why you should learn a lot about

19:46

the language that is your mother tongue, because

19:48

that's the way you express yourself

19:50

to the world. Yes. And if you don't learn

19:53

a good amount of words, you

19:55

are limited to say in pie

19:58

and floor and

20:01

toilet

20:02

What would you say instead of pie floor and

20:04

toilet?

20:05

Flan

20:07

pie's got a top on it

20:08

all, whatever. Alright then topped

20:10

plan,

20:13

a pastry topped flan,

20:16

floor. What would I say in instead of floor?

20:18

Paque,

20:20

that's a type of flooring

20:22

Well, in that situation it would work then wouldn't

20:24

it. And convenience.

20:27

do you mean a public convenience. You're

20:29

a public inconvenience.

20:31

I am on occasion. But it's

20:33

laboratory

20:34

darling lavatory water closet. Yeah.

20:37

I'm going to go to the water closet. I

20:39

always just imagine that you there's like a cupboard and

20:41

you open

20:42

it

20:42

just a w

20:43

It's just full of water. yeah, I always just get really confused with, cause I, the water closet,

20:45

I'm like what a place where you store your waters.

20:48

It was full of like jars or

20:50

yeah, just get confusing. The water closet, like a place where you store your waters. It was full. Like, and it, it actually took me a long time to understand that when

20:52

toilets had WC on them, that's

20:54

what it stood for water

20:55

closet. Cause I it's like Why,

20:57

why, it, it kind of makes sense though. It's like

20:59

a closet where you go and there is water,

21:02

which most of your other cupboards don't have water

21:05

I I suppose

21:06

So yeah, it kind

21:08

of makes sense. But a

21:11

13 year old ventriloquist. That

21:14

learnt this skill on the is of man

21:16

before the internet and YouTube. I

21:19

mean, it's not impossible,

21:20

but it was very big at that time. because

21:22

that's

21:22

that's why Harry Price was about cause a lot of

21:24

people were using it for

21:26

which is fine, but you know, even then

21:28

if you are living on a remote

21:30

she they weren't initially though, were they? They, they

21:32

moved there. Oh, because his business failed, they

21:34

were in the mainland. Apparently they were and

21:37

his business was what

21:40

if it was, oh my goodness. Honestly

21:42

I think I know, I, I, I think I researched

21:45

yeah. what what he was his business was, but it

21:47

was like not really important. to the story. No, it could

21:49

have been,

21:50

it might string

21:51

had strength my brain. That was actually a really big

21:53

thing

21:53

though. I know it was, yeah. Goodness

21:54

my Goodness It revolutionized all sorts of things

21:57

like wrapping up

21:57

suddenly you could tie things together and yeah, walk

22:00

off and they wouldn't fall over as much

22:02

And instead of just like licking them and pushing them together and just

22:04

hoping for the

22:05

second only to the industrial revolution

22:07

and Renaissance was the twine

22:09

revolution.

22:11

Hey, the, the

22:13

progression of thread and fabric

22:16

has changed the course of

22:18

history.

22:19

And also don't forget, it gave cats

22:21

something to play with.

22:22

indeed. Yeah. That was the whole point of, it.

22:24

yeah. Our whole history.

22:26

Our whole history has been pleasing cats.

22:28

We invented thread.

22:30

Ours is currently asleep on our sofa and

22:32

she has this wonderful thing where if

22:34

we put an uncomfortable object on the

22:36

sofa, like say a box, a Lego

22:38

box, for example, she

22:40

will then rest her head on it. No matter how

22:43

uncomfortable it

22:44

there's pillows all over the place. yeah. But no, that

22:47

angular

22:47

she likes the angular box weirdo.

22:50

she could have been eventual. it's not

22:52

like she's gonna sit there watching, you know, TikTok

22:54

and YouTube,

22:55

is it? No,

22:56

what So she's like, What can

22:58

I what can

22:59

What can I do

22:59

I'm gonna talk to

23:00

to fill these countless hours of boredom

23:03

and Ted

23:03

I'm gonna make it into my friend? and

23:06

that was, that was you as a kid.

23:08

That was you as a kid on the farm

23:11

And and then she told, It said it was a mongoose.

23:15

potato.

23:17

potato. Yeah. And She's like,

23:19

yeah, can you talk without moving

23:21

your lips?

23:22

You've got no,

23:22

you've got a beard, so you

23:25

can

23:25

all, so the, I I'm an instant ventriloquist.

23:27

All you need is a beard.

23:28

You've got a bit more to hide your mouth haven't

23:31

you? Well, I suppose

23:31

actually, I suppose Yeah bit more. Yeah.

23:33

That's it

23:34

it gives it away.

23:35

away All right. No, I've tried and I'm awful

23:37

at it.

23:38

I can. say got of gear

23:40

Yeah

23:40

Everyone can say

23:41

that. Yeah. Bottle bottle of beer is ridiculously

23:44

hard to say as a ventriloquist and fair play to those

23:46

that can do it. It's it's

23:47

what you need a bus sound, but you see,

23:49

you need a bus down an almost utterly useless skill

23:51

unless you get into entertainment

23:54

and you don't see very many ventriloquist acts

23:56

anymore. There's like Jeff Dunham, who

23:59

is quite a kind of blue comedian

24:02

I'm sure. My age now, blue comedian, all comedians

24:04

swear now. So

24:05

EMU

24:06

rod anemia. Oh, that was

24:08

for those who aren't English,

24:10

born and bred old, there was a children's

24:13

entertainer and

24:16

it's always kind of amazed me that he wasn't one

24:18

of the ones that was pegged as I don't being

24:20

there's still

24:20

tired Horrifically Awful there isn't. I mean, it

24:23

would've come out by

24:23

hour do you reckon

24:25

reckon I dunno. But yeah, he,

24:27

he had a, an EMU. That

24:29

was, it was quite a large one. Wasn't it? Cause

24:31

basically it's neck was pretty much his entire

24:34

arm. Wasn't it? And its head was his hand It,

24:36

this was the genius of rod Hollandia

24:38

though. EMU never spoke. He

24:40

wasn't technically a ventriloquist. He

24:42

was a puppeteer.

24:44

Oh no. What was the one with the little green, the green bird

24:46

that was Keith Harrison Orville.

24:48

Oh yeah. Keith.

24:49

Oh yeah. Keith. And then there was the monkey.

24:51

What was the monkey called? Oh, spit the dog. That was

24:53

another amazing ventriloquist

24:55

act where,

24:56

God, there was quite a few Quis when we were

24:58

well, there was quite a few, so we, yeah, he had a, a, I can't remember the name

25:00

of the guy that did spit the dog now off the top of my

25:02

head, but he had a little kind of wire head

25:05

terrier type thing. Yeah. And

25:07

literally the only thing it did was, was spit

25:09

Peter people and just go.

25:11

Yeah.

25:11

and that was it. It didn't speak, it didn't do

25:13

anything else. It just spa at people. And he

25:15

had an entire TV career made out

25:17

of that. The standards in the seventies were so

25:20

much lower

25:21

weren't they you

25:21

are now. Wasn't they? Yeah. You had one guy

25:23

with an EMU that basically just molested

25:25

people. Yeah.

25:26

literally just used to bite their faces

25:28

and then, you know, every now and again, even as a kid,

25:30

you'd be sitting there going, he's just grabbing people

25:32

with his hand. Yeah. If that costume

25:34

puppet wasn't there he'd be locked

25:36

up. He was a Notter but he

25:38

had several TV series ones. Yeah.

25:40

Cause there was the pink windmill one. There was rod

25:42

and HEU this, that and the other. And, and

25:45

obviously that gave rise to your favorite

25:47

bags

25:48

which was a lady who played a green

25:51

witch and had a amazing, she

25:53

had a, another guy that was a, an alligator.

25:55

Well, a CRO wasn't. He was called CRO. And

25:58

yeah, he was just a dude in a costume, but

26:01

yeah, the vent Enquist in the seventies

26:03

were, were a lot bigger than they are now,

26:06

but terrible. Like Le at

26:08

least two of them didn't talk at.

26:10

So they

26:10

what, what was the, what was

26:11

they be called? I can't remember what the monkey,

26:14

was called, but can

26:14

cuddles was it not cuddles the monkey?

26:17

And he was, he was really like,

26:20

he was awful. He was like really

26:22

nasty. And

26:24

that was just, yeah, let's let this guy

26:26

on with this monkey puppet where it's like, you know,

26:29

he didn't, it didn't swear, but it was, it

26:31

was pretty

26:32

awful It was close to the line.

26:33

Yeah. Bizarre, absolutely

26:36

bizarre.

26:36

God, no, you've just There's this whole

26:39

Yeah like

26:40

that have just disappeared have just gone crazy

26:42

back in my brain.

26:42

Like, oh my God,

26:43

the stuff we used to watch

26:44

was, love. Yes

26:47

Yeah. Well, we're supposed to, this is what we do. Yeah.

26:49

This, this is the, the section to digres

26:51

isn't it? Yeah. The digression

26:54

section. I don't actually call

26:56

it that, but.

26:57

anyway I wanna kind of like steer us back towards

26:59

we're we're getting

27:00

Jeff the Mongos.

27:01

Yeah. Do you, do you think there was something

27:03

there or do you think,

27:06

okay, so your choices are, It was

27:08

some kind of weird spirit entity, which you'll probably

27:10

just say no to. Cause that's generally the way you

27:12

bend. okay. Do you think it was the daughter,

27:16

do you think it was the father? Do

27:18

you think someone was playing a trick on him?

27:20

Mm-hmm well, that's interesting

27:23

because I, I didn't really think about the father

27:25

at first, but now you say it, it could

27:27

have been something he invented to amuse

27:29

his daughter who had been

27:31

relocated from wherever they were to

27:33

the is of man, which isn't, you

27:35

know,

27:36

massive That's an interesting concept

27:38

And in the, the, you know, there were

27:40

a, it was a farm wasn't it, they were all

27:42

near a farm anyway. So, you know, it

27:44

was probably quite. Remote.

27:46

Oh, it was average farmhouse was

27:49

no electrics that you know, running no running water, which, you know, it was the thirties.

27:51

So that wasn't

27:52

yeah. You know, but still, it would, I'm guessing

27:54

they had a well,

27:55

but there was probably boggle to do except

27:57

go outside and look at stuff, which, you

27:59

know, if, if you're interested that's how and stuff,

28:01

it could be absolutely fascinating, but it

28:04

could have been just something he invented to

28:06

make her happy.

28:07

so it was in September that they started

28:09

hearing the noises. So just as the weather was getting cold

28:11

or where she wouldn't be able to go out and play as

28:12

much. Interesting Yeah

28:15

So it's like, oh, what's that

28:17

But that also applies if it was her as well,

28:19

because it's like, it started in September when

28:21

she'd been out all summer playing in the fields or

28:23

whatever. And, and now it's getting a bit colder

28:25

and it's getting a bit darker and we don't want you outside.

28:28

Although back then, and they probably didn't give her monkeys.

28:31

I saw an interesting thing online the other day that was showing

28:34

they'd interviewed an entire family

28:37

from a great grandfather down to

28:39

the youngest child. Yeah. So

28:41

it's four generations. and

28:44

they all lived. I think it was in Sheffield

28:47

and they mapped out the area. They

28:49

were allowed to go to as kids on

28:51

their own. Wow. And the great granddad

28:53

had about a, a six mile

28:56

radius. So 12 miles

28:58

diameter from his home where

29:01

he could go. And like, he

29:03

walk down to

29:04

here, went to see my

29:05

my friend here. Yeah. He would walk down to a local lake

29:07

to go fishing and walk back and blah, blah,

29:10

blah. And with each successive

29:12

generation, it got smaller

29:14

and smaller and smaller to the

29:16

point where the, the kid who was,

29:19

you know, young now yeah. Was allowed

29:21

to go down to the end of his street and back and no

29:23

further. And it just goes to

29:25

show how kind of fearful we've become.

29:28

Which, you know, with some good, cause

29:30

don't get me wrong. You know, people do disappear

29:33

and, and awful things happen, but

29:35

it's like, you know, back in those days they

29:37

were allowed to just wander around on their own and stuff. They

29:40

didn't have a mobile phone. So it was like, are you

29:42

gonna out to play for the day? Yeah. I'll see you at tee

29:44

time. I mean, and that

29:45

like that him and his mates would go

29:47

down the pits all the time. Yeah. And

29:49

just, you know, just play all

29:51

over. Like they'd go all the, like their,

29:53

their, their thing was the hole of Elie. yeah.

29:56

They could have been anywhere. Yeah. And

29:58

It was just case of as long as you're own for tea. You good.

30:00

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I used

30:02

to go, I used to go good couple of miles

30:05

from my house. At least like

30:07

to go to plain playing

30:08

I grew up in the middle of

30:09

of areas and stuff So yeah I,

30:11

we had a particular point we were allowed to walk

30:13

down on the farm road, but there was literally

30:15

one road I could walk down We weren't Allowed onto

30:17

the main road. Cause it was literally like a main

30:20

yeah, yeah. Road out in the

30:21

middle

30:21

of nowhere So there's nothing to actually

30:24

walk to the train station. I'm gonna do that.

30:26

Yeah, There was no trains. Yeah. We'd

30:28

sometimes walk up to like a different

30:31

river. but I mean, it, there was maybe

30:33

about two miles to the, to

30:35

the river And we used to walk down there occasionally, but

30:37

we'd say we're going down to the river we're taking a, picnic

30:40

and then we'd just wondering it take you of

30:43

two, three hour round, like big

30:45

walk around the farm.

30:46

Yeah

30:47

But

30:48

yeah, I mean, I'd, I'd, I'd walk about

30:50

a mile to get to the, there

30:52

was a, a school. Yeah. But you

30:54

could get onto the playing field when it was closed

30:57

Oh Yeah Yeah So we'd, we'd go and go

30:59

get onto the playing field. And there was like a little hill, so we'd

31:01

ride our bikes down the little hill and stuff whatever.

31:05

But that was, that was a good mile away.

31:07

Well, they're saying that like, I'd go like, depending

31:09

on when it was. cuz there was only other kids in the same

31:11

area for a few years.

31:14

and like, I'd get on my little bike and cycle

31:16

around to their house. and then

31:18

from There we'd just run across fields

31:20

and get chased by farmers

31:21

mm-hmm

31:22

jump over ditches and stuff.

31:24

Yeah. But yeah, when I, when I, when

31:27

we moved out of the town, we

31:29

moved into a little rural Lincolnshire village

31:32

and yeah, the pretty much the whole village was

31:34

my, my play place. You know,

31:36

I just, I could go anywhere.

31:38

But then I dunno how big the is of man is. It's not

31:40

very big,

31:41

it It's not huge. No, I have been

31:43

but I was quite young when I went, I don't really remember

31:46

a huge amount other than sitting on a beach, in a bucket

31:48

hat. That was about it.

31:50

Yeah Have we got pictures of you doing.

31:52

There are, yeah, there was a couple

31:55

of pictures of me on the other man with, with mum

31:57

and pat. Yeah,

31:59

I was, I was, yeah, I was six,

32:01

seven, maybe something like that. So

32:03

yeah, 40 years ago,

32:05

I think I remember. the bucket hat. Yeah

32:07

So before your time

32:08

remember the bucket hat, cuz it was a football team, bucket

32:10

hat. And I haven't liked footballs since I was

32:13

six. Yeah. Seven or

32:14

Yeah. Since that holiday. Yeah.

32:16

Yeah, I dunno. It could have, could have been either of them. I'm

32:19

not, I'm not leaning towards a spirit at the moment

32:21

cause I just think it's, it's, it's

32:23

very odd and bizarre, but I'll

32:25

tell you one thing it did remind me of was the sand

32:28

down clown.

32:29

Oh,

32:29

Oh, I don't know why, but there were just, some

32:32

of the weirdness kind of had that same

32:34

Yeah. That's slightly kind of slightly

32:36

off. Cause DNE have like a bit of a sing songy

32:39

voice and

32:39

he did do a bit of a sing song. if You don't know

32:42

Sam the sand down clown. and we covered,

32:44

him in one of our. was

32:46

he one of our pat Patriot episodes?

32:47

I think so. I think so. Yeah.

32:50

he I'd have to look it up

32:51

a weird. dude. Yeah. Very

32:53

weird. Not sure if he was a clown, if he was

32:55

an alien,

32:56

escaped mental patient at the

32:58

time. They were like sure

33:01

very very, strange story.

33:03

I mean I'll in terms of the spirit thing, I I'd

33:05

never say never cuz there is, there is more out

33:07

there than we know about. I mean

33:09

I don't think it's alien, doesn't give

33:11

off that kind of alien vibe

33:13

because no but again, you know,

33:15

but shape shifter,

33:16

maybe we've, we've mentioned that, you know,

33:18

this, this stuff could all be kind of intertwined

33:21

because things like, skin

33:23

Walker, ranch, it's supposed to be

33:25

kind of a very trickster type entity.

33:27

And that, that, that has a, is

33:30

a kind of a long running thread. A lot of these

33:32

things seem to be kind of trick story, just

33:35

like to mess with people, you

33:37

know, seemingly appear and disappear

33:39

at will.

33:40

Whatever. True, true.

33:42

So who's to say it isn't

33:44

either the same type of

33:46

thing or the same thing,

33:48

just appearing in different places at different times

33:51

that maybe doesn't experience time

33:53

the way we do, or I don't know. I dunno.

33:55

There's, there's a million reasons. It could be

33:58

anything,

33:59

but,

33:59

okay. Yeah, I would, I wouldn't

34:01

veer towards a spirit, but

34:04

yeah, some kind of mischievous entity, I guess

34:06

maybe could be, you know, this

34:08

whole, well, you know, you can't look at me or

34:10

you'll turn into a pillar of assault, although at least

34:12

two or three people claim to have seen it. Yeah.

34:14

And none of them had any adverse effects

34:17

that were reported

34:18

were by saying, you're gonna turn into stone or a

34:20

pillar of salt. That's like two

34:22

kind of vaguely religious references.

34:25

The pillar of salt definitely is, cause that was lot's wife.

34:27

Wasn't it? Yeah. She

34:28

but then you've got like the, the turning into stone.

34:31

That's what I say religious,

34:33

but like, okay. Mythical Belief

34:35

of like

34:36

reducing

34:36

would yeah. Would turn

34:38

into stone. Yeah. So they're kind of things

34:40

that, yeah. That, that have

34:42

been said before. So it's, it does give the impression

34:45

of someone who has knowledge.

34:47

not Just messing around.

34:50

Yeah. Or somebody that has read

34:52

up on mythology, you know, and again,

34:54

again, but I feel like if

34:56

he claimed to speak all those languages, I would've.

34:58

been Right. I'm, I'm finding these people.

35:00

They're gonna come in and they're gonna test. you. Yeah. We're

35:02

gonna ask you

35:03

questions. Yeah. We're gonna find somebody who

35:05

speaks or sling your up.

35:06

Sanskrit or Hindi or whatever it was

35:08

and yeah. Yiddish

35:11

Yeah.

35:12

Spanish And yeah. all

35:14

those. And there, wasn't a lot of detail

35:16

about how Harry Price

35:19

tested him.

35:20

Yeah. And apparently

35:22

didn't see him or didn't it say

35:24

didn't hear him he so didn't

35:27

do anything by the side of things. Yeah. Cause if you, you can't

35:29

test what isn't there.

35:30

Exactly. Which to be fair,

35:33

fair play. He didn't like make anything up

35:36

make it worse.

35:38

worse.

35:38

so Becky and Tom, Tom, and Becky

35:41

are dearest friends. I

35:43

am probably more confused

35:45

than when I started and didn't remember half of that. Yeah.

35:48

So um that's, that's what I found.

35:50

and I hope it was vaguely enjoyable. and

35:53

I'm sorry. I'm so lightheaded because

35:55

he's so, so bloody warm.

35:57

Yeah. I'm gonna just have a look and see what

36:00

the temperature actually is It says

36:02

it's 28 degrees. at the moment. It's

36:04

gonna be 30 in a bit. My

36:06

limit's 24, otherwise I'm delirious.

36:09

so quite,

36:10

quite frankly. So you lucky

36:11

very lucky movie. You're lucky I can speak

36:13

Okay Okay. Well,

36:15

I'm gonna start my Minnesota

36:17

now. Okay. So I'm

36:20

gonna talk to you about universe

36:22

25. Do you remember

36:24

me telling you about this?

36:26

I remember that I should remember that you started talking

36:28

to me about this. that I can't remember anything. that

36:30

you said,

36:31

fine So over

36:33

the last few hundred years, the human

36:35

population of earth has seen an increase

36:37

taking us from an estimated 1 billion

36:39

in 1804 to 7 billion

36:42

in 2017. Throughout

36:44

this time, concerns have been raised that our numbers

36:46

may outgrow our ability to produce food

36:49

leading to widespread famine. Some

36:52

the Malians even took

36:54

the view that as resources run out, the population

36:57

would control itself through mass

36:59

deaths until a sustainable population

37:01

was reached, as it happens.

37:04

Advances in farming changes in farming

37:06

practices and new farming technology

37:08

have given us enough food to feed 10

37:11

billion people. It's how

37:13

the food is distributed, that has caused

37:15

mass famines and starvation. As

37:17

we use our resources and the climate crisis

37:19

worsens, this could all change,

37:22

but for now we have always been able to produce

37:24

more food than we need, even if we have lacked the will

37:27

or ability to distribute it to those who

37:29

need it. But while everyone

37:31

was worried about lack of resources, one behavioral

37:33

researcher in the 1970s

37:35

sought to answer a different question. What

37:38

happens to society? If

37:40

all our appetites are catered for and

37:42

all our needs are met. The

37:45

answer according to his study

37:47

was an awful lot of cannibalism shortly

37:50

followed by an apocalypse. John

37:53

B. Calhoun set about creating a series

37:55

of experiments that would essentially cater to

37:57

every need of rodents. Then

37:59

track the effect on the population over

38:01

time. The most infa

38:03

of this experiments was named quite dramatically

38:07

universe

38:08

high I do not remember any of this. I was lying.

38:11

good.

38:13

in this study, he took four breeding pairs

38:15

of mice and placed them inside

38:17

a utopia. The environment

38:19

was designed to eliminate problems that would lead

38:21

to mortality in the wild. They

38:24

could access limitless food via

38:26

16 food hoppers accessed via

38:28

tunnels, which would feed up to 25

38:31

mice at a time, as well as

38:33

water bottles just above nesting

38:35

material was provided. The weather

38:38

was kept at 20 degrees

38:40

centigrade or 68 Fahrenheit,

38:43

which for those of you who aren't mice is the perfect

38:45

maps temperature The

38:48

mice were chosen for their health obtained from

38:50

the national institutes of health breeding, colony

38:53

extreme precautions were taken to stop

38:55

any disease from entering the universe.

38:58

As well as this, no predators

39:00

were present in the utopia, which sort of

39:03

stands to reason. It's not often something

39:05

is described as a utopia, but also

39:07

there lions there picking us all off one by

39:09

one the

39:13

experiment began. And as you'd expect, the mice

39:15

used the time that would usually be wasted

39:17

in foraging for food and shelter for

39:19

having excessive amounts of sexual

39:21

intercourse. About

39:24

every 55

39:25

day

39:27

about every 55 days. The population

39:29

doubled as the mice filled the most desirable

39:32

space within the pen where access

39:34

to the food tunnels was of ease. When

39:37

the population hits 620,

39:40

that slowed to doubling around every

39:42

145 days as the mouse

39:44

society began to hit problems. The

39:47

mice split off into groups,

39:51

and those that could not find a role in these

39:53

groups. Found themselves

39:55

with nowhere to go in

39:57

the normal course of events in a natural ecological

39:59

setting, somewhat more young survived

40:02

to maturity than are necessary to replace

40:04

their dying or established associates

40:06

Calhoun wrote in 1972,

40:09

the excess find that no social

40:11

niches, em, immigrate here,

40:14

the excess could not, em, immigrate for. There

40:16

was nowhere else to go. The

40:18

mice that found themselves with no social role

40:20

to fill. There are only so many head

40:22

mouse rolls and the utopia was

40:24

in no need of a Ratto style.

40:27

Chef became isolated

40:30

males who failed withdrew physically

40:32

and psychologically. They became very inactive

40:35

and aggregated in large pools near the

40:37

center of the floor of the universe. From

40:39

this point on they no longer initiated interaction

40:42

with their established associates, nor

40:44

did their behavior elicit attack by territorial

40:47

males, even. So they

40:49

became characterized by many wounds and

40:51

much scar tissue as a result of attacks

40:54

by other withdrawn males, the

40:57

withdrawn males would not respond during

40:59

attacks lying there. Immobile later

41:02

on, they would attack others in the same pattern,

41:04

the female counterparts of these isolated

41:07

males withdrew as well. Some

41:09

might spent their days preening themselves,

41:12

shunning, mating, and never engaging in

41:14

fighting due to this. They had

41:16

excellent fur coats and were dubbed

41:19

somewhat. Disconcertingly the beautiful

41:21

ones, the breakdown of usual

41:23

mouse behavior. Wasn't just limited to

41:25

the outsiders. The alpha male

41:28

mice became extremely aggressive,

41:30

attacking others with no motivation or

41:32

gain for themselves. And regularly

41:34

raped both males and females.

41:38

Violent encounters sometimes ended

41:40

in mouse on mouse cannibalism, despite,

41:43

or perhaps because their, every need was being

41:45

catered for mothers would abandon their young

41:48

or merely, just forget about them entirely

41:51

leaving them to fend for themselves. The

41:53

mother mice also became aggressive towards

41:55

trespas to their nests with

41:58

males that would normally fill this role banished

42:00

to other parts of the utopia. This

42:02

aggression spilled over and mothers would

42:04

regularly kill their young infant

42:07

mortality. In some territories of the utopia

42:10

reached 90, 90%. This

42:13

was all during the first phase of the downfall

42:15

of the utopia in the phrase

42:17

Calhoun termed the second death, Whenever

42:20

young mice survived the attacks from their mothers,

42:22

others would grow up around these unusual

42:24

mouse behaviors as a result.

42:27

They never learned usual mice behaviors

42:29

and many showed little to no interest in mating

42:32

preferring to eat and pre themselves

42:34

alone. The population peaked

42:36

at 2,200 short

42:38

of the actual 3000 mouse capacity

42:41

of the universe. And from

42:43

there came the decline. Many

42:45

of the mice weren't interested in breeding and retired

42:48

to the upper decks of the enclosure while others

42:50

formed into violent gangs below,

42:52

which would regularly attack and cannibalize

42:55

other groups, as well as their own, the

42:57

low birth rate and high infant mortality

42:59

combined with the violence. And soon

43:01

the entire colony was extinct

43:04

during the mass pocalypse food remained ample.

43:07

Their every need completely met

43:10

Calhoun termed what he saw as

43:12

the cause of the collapse. Behavioral

43:14

sink for an animal. So

43:16

simple as a mouse, the most complex

43:18

behaviors involve the interrelated

43:20

set of courtship, maternal care,

43:22

territorial defense, and hierarchical,

43:25

intergroup, and intergroup social organization.

43:28

He concluded in his study when

43:30

behaviors related to these functions fail

43:32

to mature. There is no development

43:34

of social organization and no reproduction.

43:38

As in the case of my study reported above

43:40

all members of the population will age and

43:42

eventually die. The species

43:44

will die out. He believed

43:46

that the mouse experiment may also apply

43:49

to humans and warned of a day where

43:51

God forbid all our needs are met

43:54

for an animal. So complex as man. There

43:56

is no logical reason why a comparable

43:58

sequence of events should not also lead to

44:00

species extinction. If

44:02

opportunities for role fulfillment, fall far

44:04

short of the demand by those

44:06

capable of filling roles and having

44:08

expectancies to do so only

44:11

violence and disruption of social organization

44:13

can follow at the time. The

44:15

experiment and conclusion became quite popular

44:18

resonating with people's feelings about overcrowding

44:20

in urban areas, leading to moral decay.

44:24

However, in recent times, people have questioned

44:26

whether the experiment could really be applied so

44:28

simply to humans and whether it

44:30

really showed what we believed it did in the

44:32

first place. The end of mouse

44:34

utopia could have arisen, not from density,

44:37

but from excessive social interaction,

44:39

medical historian, Edmund Ramson

44:41

said in 2008, not

44:44

all of Calhoun's rats had gone berserk.

44:46

Those who managed to control space led relatively

44:48

normal lives. As well

44:50

as this, the experiment design has been criticized

44:53

for creating not an overpopulation problem.

44:56

Rather a scenario where the more aggressive

44:58

mice we're able to control the territory

45:00

and isolate everyone else much

45:03

like with food production in the real world,

45:05

it's possible that the wasn't of adequate

45:08

resources, but how those resources

45:11

are controlled.

45:12

Do you know The first few,

45:15

goes the, the matrix failed.

45:17

factors Yeah, because it was

45:19

a utopia utopia and everybody

45:21

rejected it.

45:23

we rejected it.

45:24

Thousands of crops were lost. So

45:27

I just wanna say real quickly that that was pretty

45:29

much cried straight from the IFL

45:32

science website, which did a

45:34

great job of reporting on it. So I didn't change

45:36

too much there. So thank you to IFL

45:38

science. We didn't get permission. We hope it's

45:40

okay. love you.

45:42

Fingers cross day. Love

45:43

Love. Yeah. well, you know, I'll

45:45

cut it out and tag it down. But yeah,

45:48

so that

45:50

I have some things I'd like to

45:51

say, okay,

45:52

for it.

45:52

it

45:52

Okay. So where

45:55

I appreciate the, the experiment.

45:58

Yeah. It can't be compared to humans.

46:01

Okay. Because like,

46:03

if those mice had

46:05

learnt to play musical instruments, crochet.

46:08

Yeah. Um All those

46:10

things that we do in our spare time to take up our

46:12

spare time, maybe they wouldn't have eaten each other as much.

46:15

Well, I get

46:17

where you're I mean, Pring is one thing there's only so

46:19

many times you can brush your hair, before you just go oh, screw

46:21

this. I'm shaving it all off and dye it blue.

46:23

Well, yeah, but the, you know, you

46:25

think about how often our cat cleans

46:27

itself I know, but I don't get annoyed with my hair

46:29

and go, oh, I can't do anything else in my hair

46:31

and I gonna go and eat the neighbors.

46:33

No. But that's not the

46:35

only type of printing behavior.

46:36

No, I know. I

46:37

No, I know. I know. Go on Instagram, go on TikTok.

46:40

There are plenty of printers

46:42

on oh

46:42

those. Oh, absolutely. Social media. Absolutely. Or any

46:44

social media, you know, there's always those that are like,

46:46

look at me, look how great I'm doing. I've got loads

46:48

of money. I've got loads of yeah. Sexual

46:50

partners. I've got a big,

46:53

big collection of cars, whatever. It's all preening

46:55

behavior. Yeah. And it

46:57

did make me think like, oh God,

47:00

these talkers and stuff,

47:02

it that's exactly what they're doing. They are

47:05

kind

47:05

well the rest of the world just descends into madness,

47:07

isolating themselves and becoming

47:09

the beautiful ones while the rest

47:11

of the world descends into madness. Yeah. It's

47:14

the, the parallels are kind of eerie

47:16

and a bit creepy. But it

47:18

led me to an entirely new fear.

47:21

Oh gosh. What of being eaten by a mouse?

47:24

No. So my new

47:26

fear eaten No. Not

47:28

so much, not, not the cannibalism side of

47:30

things as such, but

47:33

I'm quite fond of the

47:36

odd conspiracy theory as you're probably aware.

47:38

Yes. And obviously most of the conspiracy

47:40

theories revolve around

47:42

there is a shadowy secret cabal

47:45

of either government or whatever

47:47

that are controlling every aspect of our lives.

47:50

And, you know, trying to form

47:53

this one world government, new world

47:55

order, whatever. Yeah. And it's all shattering

47:57

secret. And

47:58

do you think that's they're the scientists and with the

48:01

so kind kind

48:03

of, but my real

48:06

fear now is

48:08

not, what if that's true,

48:11

cuz that's the general conspiracy theorist fear

48:13

is what if this is true? What if there is a secret

48:15

group of people controlling the world, blah, blah,

48:17

blah. Right. And that, you know, a

48:20

lot of us live in. Relative

48:22

poverty, if not actual poverty

48:24

mm-hmm because of the machinations of these

48:27

people, right? Okay.

48:29

My fear isn't now, what if that's

48:31

true? My fear is what

48:34

if they're right to do it because otherwise

48:36

this society would completely destroy

48:39

itself. So they've gone through

48:41

and looked at lots of different ways to organize

48:44

a society. And they've looked at different

48:46

historical perspectives and they've looked at,

48:49

you know, lots of psychological experiments

48:51

and sociological experiments of how

48:53

to make people live together in harmony

48:56

mm-hmm And there isn't a way to do it because if

48:58

everybody's needs a met, they

49:00

get bored. And when they get bored,

49:02

they turn to violence. Because

49:05

you look at, you look at a lot of stuff in

49:07

society. Like even the Romans,

49:09

the Romans, a lot of them lived in opulence.

49:11

Obviously there were, you know, Roman slaves

49:14

and all the rest of it. And a lot of people who didn't live in opulence,

49:16

but those who did. And, and

49:18

a lot of the population, what do they do for fun? They

49:20

watched gladiators kill the crap out

49:23

of each other. Yeah. Although actually, technically, apparently

49:25

a lot of the gladiators didn't die. There

49:27

was actually a lot less of dying

49:29

than you see in the movies because it's more dramatic

49:32

to have somebody slice somebody open, but

49:34

they fought, you know,

49:36

it was more kind of, I think it was more

49:38

like boxing is nowadays. It was like, if

49:40

somebody got hurt, they got taken off. And you know,

49:42

if, if they lived, they lived, it was great. But

49:45

otherwise they died, but it

49:47

wasn't necessarily always

49:49

to the death.

49:50

Okay But but I mean back then though, they,

49:54

they were still on like this whole kind of let's discover

49:56

everything kind of vibe

49:58

weren't they, they cuz they had that purpose. That

50:00

was their drive because they wanted to to discover

50:03

the unknown. Whereas now we

50:07

looked like and we can just go on our little iPads

50:10

and go and we can see any street

50:12

in the world, basically So

50:14

we've. That's. we,

50:16

the novelty, we're all like

50:17

JD Well there's still parts of the world that we haven't explored.

50:20

There's a lot of the ocean that we

50:21

don't well. yeah, but still It's like it's, but

50:23

it's not something that we want to do anymore

50:25

because we just assume, that it's

50:26

it's not it's not that we don't wanna do it. It's that it's

50:29

too expensive for anybody to do.

50:30

No, I mean like, just like, you know, if you've

50:32

got your iPad in front of you you can go like Google maps.

50:35

I can look anywhere I can do. LA LA LA. Yeah. But you don't

50:37

want to because it's there. It's not a, it's

50:39

not, if we, if I

50:41

feel like when you are, you're not challenged.

50:44

Yeah. That's when things go,

50:46

you stagnate. Yeah, absolutely.

50:49

So what's more of a challenge than trying to drag yourself

50:51

out of poverty. Not much,

50:53

especially if the system has been put in place

50:56

to keep a lot of people poor.

50:59

And it has, you know, there's no two ways about it. You,

51:02

you look at capitalism and it benefits

51:04

only a very small handful of people who

51:07

then because of their relative wealth

51:09

have almost absolute power. You

51:12

look at, look at things like lobbying.

51:15

you can lobbying is just bribery under another

51:17

name, arguing that actually

51:19

this experiment is, is rich

51:21

people. Those mice are the rich people.

51:24

because

51:24

they've got, cause they've got every

51:25

everything We haven't, we're The ones we are still scrambling

51:27

and striving to get into that box because

51:30

we see that they've got everything they need but actually

51:32

do we wanna be there because they're like,

51:34

we've got, we can do whatever we like, we've got enough

51:36

food. We've got enough drink. Yeah. We,

51:39

it turns out actually they hate everybody around

51:42

And um when I wrote down the whole thing

51:44

where you said, oh, the ones that were

51:47

they removed themselves from society.

51:49

Yeah. I, I could just, I

51:51

wondered if one of them mice made

51:53

a penis shaped spaceship and tried to rock

51:56

it out of there. um

51:58

When it was the ones that kind of removed themselves

52:00

from society and just pretty much did nothing did nothing.

52:03

I was like in cells.

52:05

I did think that as well, I was like,

52:07

cause they lost interest in mating. So I was like

52:09

in cells, there you go.

52:11

Yeah. But they're and what blaming the,

52:13

the lady mice for not wanting

52:15

them probably, It's your fault for not wanting

52:17

me, No It's your fault for you know, I

52:19

I read the other day, interestingly, Intel

52:22

was a term that was made up by

52:25

a, a gay woman because

52:27

she was unable to find a date

52:30

and eventually was just like, I

52:33

can't, I can't, I can't seem to meet anybody.

52:35

I like, I I'm like involuntary celibate.

52:37

Yeah. And that then became in

52:39

sell. But the, the, the

52:41

vast unwashed of like

52:44

men who blame their you know,

52:46

their dating woes on everything

52:49

except themselves. Yeah.

52:51

It's like, you know, It's we've

52:53

been conditioned to believe that

52:55

you have to be physically attractive

52:57

in order to have

52:58

No no No, no, no It's not even that. We have

53:00

been conditioned to believe

53:02

that we can only survive if

53:04

we have a partner. Yeah. And we

53:06

are only gonna be deemed successful if

53:09

we have a family. Yeah. And

53:11

that's where the problem arises. We are given this,

53:13

this thing where, oh, if you want to be successful

53:16

in life and you want to be happy, you have to have

53:18

a partner Doesn't matter. if It's male,

53:21

female, which then is compounded by the, the

53:23

message that you have to be physically

53:25

attractive

53:26

to, to get said,

53:27

to get said, partner. and

53:29

they feel like, you know, I'm not Ryan

53:32

Reynolds, whoever, so

53:35

therefore I'm not physically attractive. So therefore

53:37

I'm not gonna get a partner. And actually. It's

53:40

more about your personality. Mm-hmm, it's

53:42

the fact that you are you know, seeking to

53:44

play the victim. Almost always.

53:46

It's the fact that you get these people that go,

53:49

well, I'm a nice guy, but women don't seem to like

53:51

me. And it's like, you're not a nice guy. Cuz

53:53

if you look at your behaviors, generally,

53:56

if a woman spurs your advances,

53:58

they then get messages of hate all

54:01

over the internet and get bullied

54:02

not a bad Person doesn't mean you're a good person.

54:04

Yeah. Just means you're a person.

54:05

If somebody rejects you, you just have to go, okay.

54:08

You know, there are people that are not my type,

54:11

so I'm obviously not their type, so.

54:13

Okay. Fair enough. Move on.

54:14

Find we have this, like this

54:16

thing that, that the media portrayed but

54:18

you know, the beautiful people got together and, and,

54:21

and the so called ugly I'm doing

54:23

bunny ears. Weren't successful

54:25

in love. Okay. So that's the, the start

54:28

I mean, you wouldn't, you wouldn't be, if you had bunny ears,

54:29

did I maybe some people like that kind of thing? anyway.

54:31

no. So initially it was like you

54:34

know, the beautiful people. Yeah. And, But then we had

54:36

this wave of, of movies

54:38

and things where it was But ugly

54:40

people can be lovely and nice too.

54:42

Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. Where it's almost

54:45

like, oh, the geek the geek boy gets the beautiful

54:47

girl, but then people assume actually,

54:50

if I'm a geek, maybe the beautiful girl should

54:52

fall in love with me. I don't need to do anything. I just need to

54:54

be, I have this expectation set

54:56

that I'm I do. I'm owed

54:58

this. Yeah. And this, I think this is one of

55:00

the biggest problems in society today is

55:02

that people think that people think that, oh,

55:05

there's this sense of entitlement. And I deal

55:07

with it all the time in, in my work, which I won't

55:09

go into, but we do get a lot of

55:11

that where people just think, well, I, I,

55:14

I deserve this. I'm I'm over this

55:16

you know, blah, blah, blah,

55:17

or I'm alive.

55:18

or I'm live So this

55:18

is what happens.

55:19

No, it's not the case at all the world owes

55:21

you nothing. And whatever

55:24

you get out from it is probably a good chunk

55:26

of what you put into it. But yeah.

55:28

I don't know, I, my, this

55:30

is the thing, my biggest fear is that they

55:32

know that if society

55:35

was more equal, that

55:37

it would just collapse. Although

55:39

saying that there are studies that have shown

55:41

that societies with more equality

55:44

between the rich and the poor, like less

55:46

of a disparity between their earnings

55:49

show greater levels of happiness, overall

55:51

greater levels of satisfaction, overall

55:54

lower levels of crime and Yeah.

55:57

All the, kind of all the kind of you

55:59

know, moral failings of, of those

56:01

in society, who, who you know The

56:04

thing is it's like the, the, the

56:06

rich point to the poor and go, oh, look at 'em.

56:08

They, you know, they, they have kids

56:11

and they, they, what was it? They split up

56:13

and

56:13

just don't have your coffee in the morning.

56:15

Yeah. And, and what was it? Don't, don't go

56:17

to the

56:18

chair. Don't don't have avocado

56:19

that's it. And then, you'll be able to afford to buy a house.

56:22

Yeah, fuck

56:23

me. Not only,

56:24

not only not only, I didn't realize I was eating that much avocado

56:26

toast. Yeah. Not only that, but you

56:28

know, a, that doesn't work because

56:31

you can't save that much money

56:34

and B why should people have

56:36

to give up everything they enjoy

56:38

just to be able to own a house.

56:40

Yeah. You know, I mean, we'll, we'll never

56:42

own a house. We we'll be renting until after

56:45

I'm dead. I expect. But it's, it

56:47

is what it is. But yeah, my, my new fear

56:49

is, is that, you know, look

56:52

at things like MK ultra they've

56:54

looked into how to control people

56:57

and it. Obviously still doesn't

56:59

work cuz people do what they like.

57:01

do

57:01

they, well, yeah, that's a Good

57:03

dun dun, dun

57:04

Isn't it Yeah.

57:04

Gotta keep us on our toes,

57:06

but it's like what, what if

57:08

they've figured out that this is the best way

57:10

of stopping humans from going extinct

57:12

is to have this big disparity, because

57:14

then it gives people challenges

57:16

and something to strive for. I'm

57:19

not saying it's right. I'm just saying

57:21

maybe Anyway. That

57:24

was universe 25.

57:26

Yeah. I hadn't heard of that. I remember you mentioning

57:28

universe 25 in my

57:30

head. I think I probably kept quiet cause I

57:32

didn't tell me Anything to do with it.

57:35

You just said universe and I didn't remember to

57:37

look it up, Not that I was going to anyway.

57:39

Cause I like a surprise. Yeah. But mad max

57:41

style mice

57:42

mad. Yeah. Basically. Yeah, pretty

57:44

much Yeah.

57:45

So terrify.

57:47

Let us know what you think. Get in touch. We

57:49

are mostly on Instagram, which is

57:51

instagram.com/stories of strangeness.

57:54

You could shoot as a tweet. We are, I won't

57:56

see it. I think we're at so strange pod.

57:58

I'll see it. If you tweet us on

58:01

Facebook,

58:01

We've got a couple of groups on there. So just look up

58:04

stories of strangeness

58:04

group of a group and a page you can post

58:06

on either. We we'll see it. But let us know

58:08

what you think was, was Jeff an actual mongoose?

58:10

Was Jeff a disembodied spirit or

58:12

trickster entity of some kind or

58:14

was it just the dad or the daughter doing

58:17

stuff to amuse the other. What do you think

58:19

also? What do you think about universe

58:22

25? You know, there

58:24

are enough resources in the world that if we spread

58:26

'em out evenly, everybody would have their needs catered

58:28

to

58:29

cause also Okay So with

58:32

The areas

58:33

rounding

58:33

up, but

58:33

please chime

58:34

again. I meant to say before okay.

58:37

So it just makes you think. If there's

58:40

they said there's enough, enough, like

58:42

to make food for, was it 10 billion?

58:45

Billion? And there's only

58:46

about eight

58:47

8 billion that's 2 billion worth

58:50

of food. That's either wasted or

58:52

eaten by someone else.

58:54

Yeah. Oh, there is. You've you heard of

58:56

the, so for every person that's starving,

58:58

there's somebody who's eating their share of

59:00

food. Have you heard of the American cheese caves?

59:02

what

59:02

Yes. The American cheese

59:04

caves. It's a real thing where

59:06

America produces so much

59:09

Yeah. but It's in square. You cans. cuz that's not. real cheese.

59:12

It's actual

59:13

What whole wheel of

59:14

of cheese, although they're not allowed to unpasteurized

59:16

cheese, cuz I dunno.

59:18

They're not allowed for some

59:19

And, and also kinder eggs car eat

59:21

Yeah. I can't eat kinder eggs. Cause I feel sorry for you guys.

59:23

That's that's terrible. Kinder eggs a well

59:26

actually the chocolate's crap, but

59:27

the chocolate oh no, I used to like kind egg chocolate. You

59:29

got that. Like The weird milk.

59:30

It's that really cheap chocolate.

59:32

Nice. not, not.

59:35

I'm telling you. It is you,

59:37

you honestly think they used high quality

59:39

Belgian chocolate in kinder eggs. Are

59:41

you they're called kinder. So they come from Germany

59:43

or somewhere around there. It's gonna be German.

59:47

style

59:48

Yeah Style chocolate produced in,

59:51

I don't know some place in the middle

59:53

of Iowa or something. I

59:55

dunno.

59:56

Kindra don't come from Iowa. What are you talking about?

59:58

You don't know

59:59

that I'm looking it up now. You are not.

1:00:01

No, I'm not. Okay. So

1:00:04

cheese caves. Yes. So there are

1:00:06

literal caves filled

1:00:08

to the brim with cheese that the Americans

1:00:11

don't have enough. They've got

1:00:13

this surplus of cheese, look it up

1:00:15

Oh

1:00:16

up, look it up

1:00:17

but they don't even eat proper cheese. It's

1:00:19

all plastic or

1:00:20

no, they've got loads of different types and

1:00:22

it's not, it's not just the

1:00:24

gah

1:00:25

It's just,

1:00:26

GDA.

1:00:26

it's just a, it's just a cave filled with

1:00:28

like craft single

1:00:29

slices. he's like sta rices and St. Tights.

1:00:31

floor, ceiling. where

1:00:35

the cans have exploded and it's just, yeah

1:00:38

Okay. Anyway. Yeah, the, the American

1:00:40

cheese caves and if you combine that with the

1:00:42

European butter mountain, you've

1:00:44

just got this. Have you not,

1:00:47

you must have heard about the EU, but mountain,

1:00:49

there was literally

1:00:49

a you are no,

1:00:50

mountain of no, look it up making this

1:00:53

shit up. Absolutely not. look it

1:00:54

up. Okay. Whatever country you are in,

1:00:56

what do you have a surplus of? We're gonna have like,

1:00:58

what

1:00:58

the, I don't, I can't even,

1:01:01

I can't even, we've got a gravy

1:01:04

river. Yeah. A Lake of gravy or

1:01:06

something. Yeah. With like dumplings floating

1:01:08

in

1:01:08

it or something. Idiots. We've got a surplus of

1:01:10

of idiots, a surplus of idiots, idiots,

1:01:13

idiots. As far as, yeah. I can

1:01:14

as I can say, I have been known to get quite frustrated

1:01:16

with the human population really. And,

1:01:19

and yeah, on occasion. And I've,

1:01:21

I've said before, I dunno why we can't just

1:01:23

round 'em all up and put 'em on an island somewhere. And then

1:01:25

part of me went that's

1:01:27

here. Yeah.

1:01:28

Yeah That's we are an island somewhere with

1:01:30

Put them all on an island Yeah We're already.

1:01:32

here Yeah. With the, with the idiots

1:01:35

Yeah. So therefore I am,

1:01:37

I am one of the idiots. Exactly. It's

1:01:39

fine.

1:01:40

gosh

1:01:40

Yeah. So hit us up with your theories.

1:01:43

We'd love to hear what you think.

1:01:45

yeah this is like the unofficial start of season

1:01:47

three. Did I say that already? I can't

1:01:48

say that at all. So this is the unofficial start

1:01:50

of season three. We're basically taking the break

1:01:53

at the, as the

1:01:55

break between season two and three. So this is season three.

1:01:57

Welcome.

1:01:57

It's still episode 46. Are

1:01:59

obviously still completely randomly.

1:02:01

I dunno,

1:02:02

organized It's too hot It's

1:02:04

I think organized might be a strong word.

1:02:06

Is it? It's 28. What you

1:02:08

whining about? Anyway, hot day

1:02:10

of the year. We're back. It's good

1:02:12

to see you except we can't see you or

1:02:15

hear you.

1:02:15

Yeah, I can just hear

1:02:16

we can just hear we're just yelling into the void basically.

1:02:19

I changed there then I think

1:02:21

I need a copper. No, I need,

1:02:24

a, I need a lay

1:02:24

down. Yeah. A boiling hot drink. That's what you need

1:02:27

today. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And

1:02:29

don't, don't don't tweet at us or

1:02:31

email us with the. Hot water calls

1:02:33

down faster than cold. It's fine. We understand.

1:02:36

But when you're drinking it, I dunno, I

1:02:38

feel sweaty after a cup of tea sometimes. I

1:02:41

dunno if I

1:02:42

you look

1:02:42

that sweaty after.

1:02:43

a cup of tea, sometimes love.

1:02:45

Yeah. Cup sometimes. Love. Yeah. Anyway, I

1:02:48

think that's it for now. This is

1:02:50

gonna be a nightmare to edit as

1:02:53

always, but yeah.

1:02:55

Thanks for listen.

1:02:57

Yeah. as always apologies,

1:03:01

but you know, you tuned in some

1:03:04

of the blame rests on your shoulders.

1:03:06

Just say goodbye. Love.

1:03:07

Just like goodbye. Love. Okay. Goodbye.

1:03:08

Love,

1:03:09

Bye.