0:00

Guys , matt Haycox here and

0:02

welcome to Stripping Off with

0:04

Matt Haycox today on Christmas Day

0:06

. If you're watching this later on , this was

0:08

released on Christmas Day as a Christmas

0:10

present to my next guest today Carl

0:13

Ruhnfeldt . Carl Moon

0:15

Ruhnfeldt crypto guy

0:17

, bagatti driver , entrepreneur

0:19

, extraordinaire . You are going

0:21

to love this episode , whether you're into

0:23

crypto , whether you're into flash lifestyle

0:26

, whether you're into inspiration or whether you're into

0:28

business . Carl was on a podcast of mine previously

0:30

, about two years ago . We had a great chat

0:32

then , but it was never deep

0:35

. We didn't get into the real tactics

0:37

of how he makes his money . We talked about law

0:40

of attraction and his life from being a supermarket

0:42

worker through to being a crypto billionaire

0:45

. But as popular as that podcast

0:47

was , we got a lot of comments about well

0:49

, it's lovely that he made all this money , but how

0:51

did he make it ? You know Law of Attraction Law of

0:53

Attraction but I want to know how I can

0:55

make money like Carl too . In today's episode

0:57

, I ask the questions that you want to know

1:00

the answers to . I

1:05

ask him how did he make his first money to get into Bitcoin ? How did he then invest that

1:07

money ? What happened with the Bitcoin ? How does he now invest in crypto

1:09

businesses . How has he gone from

1:11

supermarket guy to Bugatti driver

1:13

, to world famous crypto

1:16

entrepreneur ? And Carl doesn't hold back . He

1:18

tells us the truth , he tells us what

1:20

we need to know , and we also stop talking

1:22

about business and we talk about his personal life , his

1:24

family . Carl has a brother

1:26

who was born with down syndrome , who suffered

1:28

cancer . You know that's inspired carl to go on to

1:30

charity work . We talk about his love for music

1:33

and much , much more . So tune in , enjoy

1:35

this with your christmas dinner or whatever

1:37

you're eating . If you're watching this in the future , guys

1:40

matt haycox here for another episode

1:42

of stripping off with Matt Haycox , and today

1:44

we have got a repeat guest . Very

1:46

excited to have him here . Mr Carl

1:49

Moon Runefelt is in the house , in

1:52

the studio at least Crypto expert

1:54

, entrepreneur and Bugatti driving

1:57

legend , to name but a few things . Carl

1:59

thanks a lot for being here , buddy . Thank you , man Happy

2:01

to be back Two years . I mean it's gone

2:04

fast .

2:10

We were just talking before we started . I can't believe how quickly it's gone , yeah yeah , crazy

2:12

, it's um .

2:12

It feels actually quite long time ago , you think . Yeah , I mean I don't know .

2:14

Just a lot of things that happen , I guess I'm getting old

2:16

, so , uh , so , so time .

2:18

Time goes so quickly . But I think that's the thing about

2:20

being in dubai for me as well . I literally always say I wake

2:22

up in the morning , I go to the gym , I

2:25

do a little bit of work , blink twice

2:27

it's 7pm , 8pm , and

2:31

the time just disappears . But listen , it's

2:33

great to be here . We were talking when

2:35

we bumped into each other about how

2:37

popular that last podcast episode we

2:39

did was , particularly

2:42

the video version . I think it's my first

2:44

, first or second most uh , most

2:46

downloaded , uh downloaded youtube video

2:48

. So , uh , plenty of comments , plenty

2:50

of , uh , plenty of people loving you and uh , plenty of

2:53

people asking more questions . So , thanks

2:55

, uh , thanks , for being here to dig deeper . Uh

2:57

, one thing I've got I've got to ask from

2:59

the beginning is when we did

3:01

the podcast uh , march

3:04

, april 2022 bitcoin

3:06

was about 40k . It wasn't about about

3:08

40k dollars back then , I think

3:10

. Today , what are we on ? We're middle

3:12

of december . It's about about 105

3:15

, 106

3:17

, 106 a day . What's

3:19

that ? What's that done for you over the last couple of years ? How much

3:21

have you made ?

3:22

uh , well , obviously my net worth has increased

3:25

like 3x probably , um

3:28

, which is great , uh , and yeah

3:30

, business is booming and you know I'm

3:32

very busy now because now all the companies

3:35

that I'm involved with um have

3:37

a lot of things to do . You know , there's a lot of money to

3:39

be made and things

3:41

to attend to and but yeah , but busy is

3:43

good . That's , that's the good thing with crypto . You

3:45

have , I mean , one year of

3:47

bull market and then three years of bear market

3:50

. That's usually the case in crypto . So you have one year

3:52

of , like , you know , making money

3:54

and building things or like

3:56

setting things up for the bear market , and then you have

3:58

three years of bear market

4:00

where you just have to maintain and

4:03

build and kind of , you know , build

4:06

up for the bull market . So you're essentially planting seeds in the

4:08

bear market to reap the rewards in

4:10

the bull market . And that's basically what I'm

4:13

doing now trying to reap as many rewards as possible

4:15

and and collect

4:17

and basically Prepare

4:21

for the bear market , because that's very important .

4:22

Most people don't do you make money

4:24

in a bear market as well ? I mean , are you just kind

4:27

of maintaining , waiting , waiting for another bull

4:29

, or have you got trading strategies and

4:31

and your investments that you

4:33

do that still make your money in ?

4:34

the bear market . I don't trade , uh , not

4:37

much . I I do small trades , but

4:39

it's it definitely not is my main

4:41

income at that point . Then it's more my businesses

4:44

. I have , um , you know , my youtube channel

4:46

, where I make some money , also in the bear market , and

4:49

then I have other companies that I'm involved with

4:51

, um , either I'm a seed

4:53

investor or I'm a incubator

4:56

with my , my group of companies , the moon

4:58

group , uh , and some of

5:00

them made money in the bear market . Some of them were just

5:02

maintaining , but uh , but yeah , I mean

5:04

I make money in the bear market . Some of them were just maintaining , but yeah , I mean I make

5:06

money in the bear market , but way less . Bull market is

5:08

like 10 , 20 times more .

5:10

Well , we'll come on to talk about some of your businesses in a minute

5:13

. Two things

5:15

I wanted to pick up on in the beginning Again

5:17

, I guess either things that have been personal to me

5:19

or things that

5:21

have happened since we last spoke . You

5:24

sponsored a Formula 2 race team . I

5:26

think it happened the season

5:29

after we recorded . Did you do one

5:31

season or two seasons ? Two seasons , so

5:34

I think you were just doing it at that point , and

5:36

not only did you sponsor a team , but

5:40

you stuck your face on a Formula

5:42

2 car . I

5:45

like to think of myself as pretty out there with my

5:47

branding and

5:49

with my marketing opportunities

5:51

, but that has to be the

5:54

biggest and best marketing opportunity

5:57

ever . I mean , what was the background to it and

5:59

what did it do for you ?

6:00

Well , first of all , I

6:03

met Ralph in monaco , like three

6:05

years ago probably , um , in the grand

6:07

prix . I was renting a yacht and I had it there in the

6:09

harbor , and then we had a party

6:11

with some friends and he came over and then we just talked

6:13

and he was such a cool guy , we both like had a good

6:16

vibe and uh , and he was looking for

6:18

sponsors for his car

6:20

, which he told me like a month later and

6:22

he just asked like hey , do you want to like do

6:24

something there ? And I was like yeah , sure , and then I just started

6:27

with like putting my instagram handle on

6:29

the car for like 15k or something , um

6:32

, just like a , like a small , uh

6:34

, small sponsorship , um , and then

6:36

the next season , uh , whoops . I I told

6:38

him like um , bro , um

6:41

, I want to do something crazy , like

6:43

well , how much to get the whole

6:45

car ? And he was like , well , that's like

6:47

I think it said like 2 million , 2.5

6:50

, something crazy , you know , um , and

6:52

I basically said

6:54

, well , let's just do that

6:56

, because I want to have the whole car . And

6:58

the thing is like , first of all , I

7:01

, um I made very good money . Then , like

7:03

it was a bull market and like I was like

7:05

. It was like peak bull market that was very wealthy

7:08

. So I had some spare money to

7:10

to to to spend and

7:12

I love racing , um , and I think ralph

7:14

is such a cool dude , like he's always been

7:16

uh trying to get money himself uh

7:19

from from investors because he doesn't

7:21

have rich parents like most of the other

7:23

drivers , and

7:25

yeah , so I thought

7:27

I'm helping someone else , I can

7:29

maybe do some marketing out of it and

7:32

hopefully have

7:34

some fun as well , and all of these things were

7:36

true . Like I had a lot of fun . We were traveling around the world

7:38

following the car , following Ralph

7:41

. A lot of wins , a lot

7:43

of losses , he

7:46

made podiums and yeah , honestly , like it was a blast and you , you took the whole car

7:48

.

7:48

There was no , there was no other sponsors on there there was a couple

7:51

of small sponsors as well yeah but that was

7:53

like 90 percent yeah yeah , like , like , like

7:56

being able to be on your feet while you're all

7:58

body basically but

8:00

you used the word spend . You said you know you had

8:02

some spare money to spend . Did

8:04

you see that as a spend or did you see it as an

8:06

investment ? And I guess setting

8:09

the question up more whenever

8:11

I make high-value purchases

8:13

or if I spend large

8:15

amounts of money on something , even if to other people

8:18

it looks like spending . I'm

8:20

noticing your beautiful watch

8:22

underneath your sleeve there . I've had

8:24

Pat X and Richard

8:26

Mills and obviously you know I've got the boat . People

8:29

look at these as big spends

8:32

and almost like a waste

8:34

of money or a wealthy guy spending

8:36

money . But I always say that every big

8:38

purchase I make , I tend to

8:40

be able to wrap it into some kind

8:43

of investment , typically an investment

8:45

in marketing , an investment in brand building

8:47

, and that if I

8:49

spent 100 grand on a watch , then

8:52

I would use . Yes , I would enjoy the watch

8:54

, but what people don't realise is that 100 grand is probably

8:57

still there in value if I wanted to get my cash back

8:59

. But it's opened doors to be able

9:01

to network with other Patek

9:03

owners , or it's a talking

9:05

point when you walk into a room that

9:07

people come to you and obviously you

9:09

know as a well , I like to think of as

9:11

a prolific networker , I find all these things very

9:14

useful to me , and you know as expensive

9:16

as two , two and a half million dollars must

9:18

be to put yourself on that car

9:20

. I

9:25

would imagine the branding opportunities and the doors that open for you should be

9:27

able to far outweigh that um actually no , really , yeah , I would

9:29

say , um , I don't think so at

9:31

all .

9:31

I think that the value financially that I got back

9:33

like you could count it and like maybe

9:36

a few hundred thousand dollars , oh really , so maybe

9:38

. So I would say 90 of that was um

9:40

, uh was not

9:43

coming back in any form of ROI financially

9:45

. So I think sponsoring

9:48

in F2 , f1 , it's

9:52

hard to make that money back unless you have like

9:54

a clear product you're promoting

9:56

. Back then I was basically promoting like

9:58

a couple of my companies , but they were a little bit too early

10:00

stage at that point and mostly I was just

10:02

like promoting myself , I would say , which

10:05

in hindsight , like maybe I

10:07

mean I wouldn't do it again because

10:09

there's

10:11

other ways to do it with higher ROI , but

10:14

I would definitely want to be part

10:16

of that . So if I went back in time I would

10:18

make a smaller sponsorship , like maybe

10:20

two , three hundred K or like something like that

10:22

, because would be um more like

10:24

for fun kind of money , but that's millions

10:27

of dollars , that that you can easily

10:29

put that in google ads and get like you know , you can

10:31

take over a country of marketing ads . You

10:33

know um , which is better , um

10:35

roi , I think . But

10:37

I still don't regret it because I

10:39

had so much fun and , um , it

10:42

was such a door opening for me for also going

10:44

into racing . So now I'm going to start racing myself

10:46

soon , but then I'm paying for

10:48

my own racing , um

10:50

, and I'm also very happy that I was able to enable

10:53

ralph to race , so I definitely don't

10:55

regret anything . But I'm not going

10:57

to be spending that kind of money on on on

10:59

sponsorship in racing um , probably

11:02

ever again , unless it's like f1 with

11:04

one of my companies in the future . But then it's

11:06

going to be a little bit different setup

11:09

, but uh , but roi needs to be

11:11

the focus , I would say it's interesting that you mentioned

11:13

um , better spent

11:15

money on google ads .

11:16

To take over a country was uh , was

11:18

your words . Because I I have this same

11:21

kind of conversation with people myself and literally this morning

11:23

I got a phone call , a voice note , that was returning

11:25

in the taxi on the way down , from

11:27

a guy who puts on celebrity

11:29

football matches and

11:32

I played in one , I don't know

11:34

four or five months ago , where they

11:36

bring over from England to Dubai 20

11:40

players , ex-premiership football

11:42

players , you know some celebrities , some

11:44

TV people , and

11:46

then they sell sponsorship to go on the shirts

11:48

and all that kind of stuff . And

11:51

I knew somebody who knew them . They reached out to me

11:53

, said would you be interested to sponsor ? And I said , look

11:55

, I'll only be interested to sponsor if you're going

11:57

to play me , because I know I'm not going to get great

11:59

value from the actual name

12:01

on the shirt itself , but I'll get good fun from

12:03

playing . And you know I

12:06

took it as an opportunity that we planned

12:08

well to meet the other players

12:10

, to maybe get some guests for podcasts , to

12:12

get some good social media content , etc . Etc . And

12:15

listen , we're talking microscopic

12:17

amounts of money compared

12:20

to what you're talking with the Formula 1 , formula

12:22

2 . We

12:24

paid 10K for that . When

12:26

you look at what happened afterwards , was it worth

12:28

10K ? It

12:30

probably wasn't worth 500 bucks . And

12:33

the guy messaged me this morning saying we're coming back

12:35

again . Are you interested to do it ? I said

12:37

, listen , no disrespect to

12:39

you or your business model or everything you do . It's

12:41

great fun and you put a good product

12:43

on , but I just

12:45

can't see any return on that spend . I actually

12:47

said . I said if I took 10k and

12:49

put it into facebook ads , into google

12:52

ads , into podcast ads , I could literally

12:54

grow my audience to a to a hundred

12:56

thousand , you know , a hundred thousand new , new

12:58

people . And , um , I think , uh

13:00

, you know it's still , despite the

13:02

fact that we , you , that business owners have all

13:04

heard about Google Ads or Facebook

13:07

Ads and are on the receiving

13:10

end of them for 10 , 15 , 20 years

13:12

, there's still so much value

13:14

to be had in that With this podcast

13:16

, we started to do audio podcast

13:19

ads that pop up

13:21

on the app maybe six

13:23

months ago and we've got from

13:25

relatively modest spends small

13:27

five-figure spends . We've grown our audience

13:29

40x in the last six months and

13:34

it's interesting to hear someone

13:36

with a big public profile like you talk

13:38

about those things , because I think people often

13:40

look at YouTubers or guys who've

13:42

been successful online and think of it

13:44

as just oh well , these guys have popped

13:47

a few good videos and you know everybody

13:49

just organically arrive , arrives on their

13:51

page anyway . But I think you know people , people

13:53

don't realize how you know what effort

13:56

and spend and control you know

13:58

goes into into building that brand yeah

14:00

, I agree , and I

14:02

mean personally my youtube channels I've , I've , I

14:04

did grow them organically .

14:06

But for the businesses , of course , I think

14:09

you need

14:11

to be smart with how you spend the money and sponsoring

14:13

things . I would say that should come

14:15

very late stage . For a company it's

14:18

only about brand awareness . So

14:28

like when you're Coca-Cola and like Microsoft and like Apple

14:30

, yeah , it makes sense to do that brand awareness kind of thing . But for earlier

14:32

stage , like even mid-stage , I would say it's too much money because

14:35

you can just take that and literally do Google

14:37

ads or do other kind of paid marketing

14:39

which gives you direct referrals

14:42

like direct clients , gives

14:47

you direct referrals like direct um , you know clients , um . So roi is much higher and way more easier to

14:49

measure , because that's the problem also with the sponsorship in f2 , f1 . It's

14:51

very hard to measure because you don't know , there's

14:54

no link that people click . They see it on tv

14:56

, they see it when they're in the paddock and they're like maybe

14:59

they go to your website , maybe they do something with you , but

15:01

you don't , you can't measure where

15:04

they came from . But with google ads and facebook

15:06

ads and and other kind of marketing you

15:08

can directly see where they came

15:11

from how much money you made from it . So you can see if

15:13

you spend one dollar , if you get two dollars back

15:15

or not . But with f2 , like I

15:18

can just estimate , and I

15:20

can estimate that I didn't make that money back

15:22

and you say say

15:24

you grew your YouTube channels organically , 100%

15:27

organically .

15:28

You've never used YouTube ads and things online

15:30

.

15:30

No all organically .

15:34

What do you see as your tactics or your hooks

15:37

to be able to have grown those YouTube channels

15:39

? What could someone

15:41

listening to this who wants to grow online not

15:43

necessarily in crypto , but just you know build a YouTube

15:45

presence ? What are the key secrets ?

15:48

I think the key secret is to , first of all , be consistent

15:50

and don't overthink the

15:53

videos . Most people they have an idea oh I

15:55

want to make a YouTube channel , but then they overthink

15:57

it too much and they never make that first video

15:59

. Or they make three videos and then

16:01

they give up . I think consistency

16:04

and just start making content any

16:06

kind of content is very important and

16:08

even if your content is shit which it probably

16:10

will be , to be honest , the first few videos , my first

16:12

videos , were very bad .

16:13

I can't even watch my first videos . They're cringe . It

16:16

brings tears to my eyes , I know that's how

16:18

I feel .

16:20

Everyone feels like that , because your first videos are going to be horrible . That's

16:26

just how how learning works and if you don't make those first videos , you're not going to learn . So

16:28

you have to make bad videos to eventually make

16:30

good videos . And I think people overthink

16:33

it too much and never get started and um

16:35

, and that's the most important , thing .

16:37

You probably won't remember this but um , we

16:40

, um , we had dinner on my boat in

16:42

um in barcelona

16:45

after Barcelona , after the Barcelona Grand Prix

16:47

, and we were talking about YouTube

16:49

videos at night and you

16:52

said to me that

16:54

you never see me make content that

16:57

kind of shows lifestyle for me . And

17:00

I said I always kind of have a bit of a what's

17:03

the word Not mental block , maybe

17:05

like a psychological block

17:08

or embarrassment factor . That you know I'm

17:11

not a Tai Lopez or you know I'm not a guy

17:13

who feels comfortable jumping on

17:15

the bonnet of a Ferrari , going , yeah , you

17:17

know , I've got so much money , look at my car and

17:19

I know that would get views , but A , it

17:22

just doesn't feel like me . And B

17:24

, I think , if you know , my business is quite

17:26

, you know , quite mainstream

17:28

, serious financial stuff with

17:30

, you know , with , let's say , more older , serious

17:33

investors , if they saw me jumping on the

17:35

bonnets of Ferraris or go

17:37

, hey , I'm going Bugatti shopping , I think they'd think

17:39

I've lost my fucking mind and pull

17:41

the money . But

17:45

you said you know , know , look , you're already doing stuff . You don't even need to

17:47

go make any new content . Um , you can just document what you're

17:49

already doing and um , and literally

17:52

the week , the week after um , I

17:54

saw you , I I was in

17:56

england with elena , um , anyone

17:58

listening that's my girlfriend and I bought

18:00

her . But she didn't know . I just bought her the , uh , the

18:03

, the ladies nautilus

18:05

with the diamond face . I thought you know what

18:07

fuck it . I'll

18:09

listen to what Carl said , I'll make a

18:12

video and see what happens . So

18:14

I took my cameraman down with me . I just told

18:16

Elena that he was just there to vlog

18:18

a bit of the day because she had no idea that

18:21

she was getting this watch . I just told her we were going

18:23

to a well , it was true , we

18:27

were going to a well , it was true . We were going to a nice hotel where we'd been invited by Patek

18:29

to have a dinner there and meet the other Patek owners which

18:32

was true , because I had a Patek at the time . So

18:35

in we went and at half

18:37

time I was hanging out in the room

18:39

, like a little room like this , on the big sofa . I

18:42

said , oh Elena , I want to show you something . And like a little room

18:44

like this on the big sofa . I said , oh Elena , I want to show you something . And the cameraman was there

18:46

waiting in the background and , you know , pulled the watch out . She had no idea

18:48

. And I said , oh my God . And she starts crying , et cetera

18:50

. And we made like a 90-second

18:53

video with the very

18:55

obviously the in-your-face title

18:57

of I Bought my Girlfriend a 70K

19:00

Watch and

19:06

literally within within I mean within two hours , three hours , I think

19:08

that one video it was an Instagram reel had had more

19:10

views than probably every , than probably every other video

19:13

I'd done put together and over the course

19:15

of the next days and week . And so it

19:17

was , I think . I mean it was to

19:19

this day because it's still there . It's not now

19:21

. Over a million views on

19:23

a typical reel for me might be mid-five

19:26

figures . A very good reel might be

19:28

a couple of hundred thousand if

19:31

it's got somebody good in , but it

19:33

was a real lesson

19:36

, wake-up call , whatever you want to call it . It

19:38

wasn't a great surprise to me because

19:43

I obviously knew you were writing what you say . I see all the

19:45

content that pops for the people , but you know , for

19:47

me it was that balance of how do I

19:49

make it so that I don't feel a total

19:51

twat doing it , I think you know , for me you do a good

19:53

job of that . I'm not saying it because you're here , you

19:56

know . Obviously you show a

19:58

flash side of life , but

20:01

you do it still in a reasonably

20:03

humble way . I mean , there's a guy

20:05

I follow online . I've been trying to delete

20:07

him for ages but I just keep having to

20:09

say one more day you

20:14

might see him here in Dubai

20:16

Sona , a Dutch , a black guy , dutch

20:18

guy , early 20s . He

20:20

owns I forget what the label's called . He

20:26

owns like a clothing label , sells e-concourseses , and every day he's on there . He's like look at my Lamborghini

20:29

, you're fucking broke and I'm fucking

20:31

amazing , and if you live in Thailand , you live in

20:33

Thailand because you can't afford to live in Dubai

20:35

. I think I just it

20:38

gets to views , but I just feel like

20:40

such an asshole doing it .

20:42

I mean I think some people like to watch that kind

20:44

of vibe . I mean , same like andrew tate , he also

20:47

like he will call you loser and like try to get

20:49

you to . But yeah , I , I personally

20:51

don't really put like a

20:54

character on , I just document

20:56

my life and that's that's what I

20:58

do , because I I want to

21:00

inspire people , because when I was in the

21:02

supermarket , when I was working in the supermarket , like

21:04

over six years ago , when

21:07

I was visualizing my dream life , I was watching

21:09

videos from people like that

21:11

who were making videos about their private jets

21:13

and going shopping and buying

21:16

cars . Because that made me inspired

21:18

and that made me actually go

21:20

out there , like visualize my life and go and

21:22

make my life amazing as it is today

21:24

. Go out there , like , visualize my

21:26

life and go and make my life amazing as it

21:28

is today . So my vlog channel , where I do show my lifestyle

21:30

you know it's actually not to brag , it's

21:38

or actually , yeah , it is to brag to make sure that people

21:40

see how my life changed from nothing to where it is today , and so people can take that

21:42

bragging and use it for inspiration . So basically

21:45

, I don't think bragging

21:47

necessarily has to be a bad word , right , because if

21:50

it's for inspirational purposes , which it is for

21:52

me , then I'm feeling that I'm

21:54

giving something to people . You know , because I

21:57

remember my feeling I had watching

21:59

these people bragging to me . It

22:01

made me so inspired . I was like I also

22:03

want that watch , I also want that lifestyle , I also

22:05

want to buy private jet . I also want to be rich

22:07

like these guys . You know , I want to have their lifestyle

22:10

. So it made me feel good actually

22:12

, like I was like inspired . Some people they just

22:14

get jealous and they hate it and they , you know

22:16

, but my

22:18

content is not for them , you know , my content is for

22:20

the people that want to change their life and

22:23

that need someone to show them how

22:25

, basically

22:27

, I'm an example of how the law of attraction works

22:30

, because I use the law of attraction to go from there

22:32

to where I am today and I'm

22:34

just documenting my life . And I

22:36

mean people that watch my videos . They love it . And

22:39

then , of course , there's always going to be people .

22:51

I see some comments sometimes oh Carl , you're bragging too much , like so flashy and blah blah

22:53

. But I'm not making my videos for them and I I don't really care if they don't like it , I mean . But typically , like with anything

22:55

in life , you know that the people who were saying the negative comments are , you know they're , they're

22:57

coming from their own , their own place of of

23:00

, of something missing . That

23:02

you know their own place of negativity . But like you say

23:04

, and I mean , anything's in the delivery , isn't

23:06

it ? You can , you can deliver

23:09

flashy content that makes you look like

23:11

a dick because you're just trying to brag for the sake

23:13

of bragging , or it can be . It can

23:15

be presented in the way that you

23:17

know . This is inspirational , this is helpful . It's like

23:19

look , I've got a great life I didn't used

23:22

to , I have have now , and

23:24

this is how I did it and this is

23:26

how you can do it too . And ultimately

23:28

, for me , that's how your stuff comes across . I

23:31

mean , there's always going to be people who

23:34

look at anyone with more money than them and

23:36

say that they're bragging just

23:38

because they're pissed off that

23:40

they've got more money than them . But

23:44

you don't just show the lifestyle

23:46

, you show the theory that goes behind

23:48

it too . Hey , matt here , thanks for listening

23:50

to Stripping Off with Matt Haycox , but did you also

23:53

know I've got another podcast , no Bollocks

23:55

, with Matt Haycox . Both of these are very

23:57

different . If you're enjoying the deep dives

23:59

with the guests that I have every week on Stripping

24:02

Off , then you're going to love the quick , short

24:04

business tips , strategies and tactics

24:06

I give you on no Bollocks . This comes out nearly

24:08

every day . Make

24:13

sure you go and check it out on iTunes , spotify , youtube , wherever you listen to your content

24:15

, and I'll see you in a future episode . Well , look , let's talk about that theory because

24:17

obviously , when we did our video

24:19

podcast last time , we

24:21

talked a lot about the time in

24:23

the supermarket , the law of attraction and

24:26

, I guess , how you visualise

24:29

what you wanted , and that's the

24:31

life you've got now . But

24:34

a lot of the comments that we get on the video

24:36

, a lot of what people would ask me

24:38

is what does Carl actually do

24:40

? Yeah , he's crypto . Yeah , he visualises

24:43

life , but there's got to be more than just

24:45

visualisation . Know that there's . There's got

24:47

to be strategies and tactics and action

24:49

too . So let's , let's , let's

24:51

talk about , about your actual businesses

24:53

. And you know , you've got , you've got the moon group

24:55

. You know , I know , you trade crypto yourself

24:58

. You invest in in other businesses , you incubate

25:00

other businesses . You give

25:02

us , give us the the lowdown on . You know

25:04

what , what you actually do , what , uh , you

25:06

know what does a typical investment

25:09

look like for you ? How do you get involved

25:11

? You know what's a day in the office for for

25:13

the moon man well

25:15

, um , okay .

25:16

So first of all , I mean , the most public part

25:18

of my business is , of course , my

25:20

youtube channel , the moon show , where I

25:22

make daily crypto videos about bitcoin

25:25

, altcoins , and I show people what trades

25:27

I make and what investments I do

25:29

um and um , and

25:32

I educate people about bitcoin and financial

25:34

markets and like the monetary system and and

25:36

all of that stuff and the sort of interrupt .

25:38

But the monetization of that is that you

25:40

have a popular , popular youtube channel

25:42

that , um , that earns you money from

25:44

AdSense and YouTube

25:47

ads .

25:48

Well , AdSense is probably like maybe 1%

25:51

of the money I make from there . What I actually make

25:53

from there is , you know , sponsorships

25:55

and partnerships with

25:58

the affiliate . Partnerships like exchanges , like Bybit

26:00

, binance these kind of guys , because

26:02

when I make trades , when I make investments , people want to know which platform I use for it . So , binance these kind of guys , because when I make

26:04

trades , when I make investments , people want to know which

26:07

platform I use for it . So , of course , I have

26:09

links in my description where people can use those

26:11

links to go to Bybit and

26:13

Binance or whatever it is I'm promoting and

26:17

, yeah , like they're going to sign up anyways . So

26:19

when they use my link , I get a kickback . And

26:22

that's how I built my first wealth

26:25

in crypto . Actually , that was my first big

26:27

money and I still make

26:29

money from it , but it was like that

26:31

was the kickstart of my career .

26:34

So you made the channel . The channel

26:36

would generate income and you invested

26:39

that income in crypto and it was a kind

26:41

of a virtuous circle

26:43

.

26:44

Exactly so you can say that exactly . So I made good

26:46

money from from affiliate partnerships and sponsorships

26:48

put everything into crypto . Crypto has been

26:50

booming . I've been investing that later

26:52

then into companies . Uh , I've

26:54

, like you know , I acquire companies

26:57

and I incubate them like that

26:59

uh and um and yeah

27:01

, so it's been exponential from there . But but

27:03

basically how it started was like that and people

27:05

always want to know , like , how did you make your first money ? And

27:08

that's affiliate partnerships and sponsorships with

27:10

my YouTube channel , and I think you know

27:12

attention is very monetizable . Like when you have

27:14

people's attention , you can easily monetize it . And

27:17

in crypto , the revenue you can make from that is 10 times any other business . So I think , yeah , people

27:19

underestimate how much money you can make from that is 10 times

27:21

any other business . So I think , um

27:24

, yeah , people underestimate how much money you

27:26

can make with , with social media , if you

27:28

know how to monetize it . Some people have no clue how to

27:30

monetize um and um

27:32

and then they don't make . But with attention

27:35

, you should make money .

27:36

If you don't , then you just don't know business well

27:38

, I love that comment because it's again , it's

27:40

very , let's say , personal to me

27:42

right now . At this time that I've been working

27:44

on my 2025 strategies

27:47

and plans with various members of my team and

27:50

with a couple of them I've been talking about the fact that

27:52

the big focus for 2025

27:55

is on massive audience growth on

27:57

the podcast . And

28:00

they're saying , well , what's the end game ? What

28:02

are we doing with that massive growth ? And I said

28:04

, well , I can't tell you today what we're going to do , but

28:07

what I can tell you is that by

28:09

the end of next year , if there is X

28:11

amount of growth , if we have X amount

28:14

of eyeballs , if we have Y amount

28:16

of earlobes watching and listening , then

28:18

there is no way we can't

28:21

generate opportunity and monetize

28:23

that . And obviously , you're from

28:25

the crypto space . I'm not . People

28:29

are in the fitness space or the nutrition space or whatever it may be . But

28:31

if you can build audience and get

28:34

attention , as you say , in

28:37

any space , then if you can't monetize

28:39

it , then ultimately you're

28:41

doing something very wrong and you

28:43

just haven't got the right strategy .

28:44

Yeah , I agree , so the businesses that you invest

28:47

in .

28:47

Ultimately , you're doing something very wrong and you just haven't

28:49

got the right strategy . Yeah , I agree . So the businesses that

28:51

you invest in , the businesses you incubate , they're crypto businesses

28:53

. Can you tell us what some of these companies are ? What

28:56

do you look for in an investment and how actively do you get involved ?

28:59

Yeah , only crypto , of course .

29:02

So when you say only crypto , is that crypto

29:04

, crypto , crypto crypto . Can that be ? Be

29:06

blockchain ?

29:07

be nft be ai um

29:10

well , for

29:12

example , crypto gaming is something I'm very

29:14

involved in . I've invested in the multiple crypto

29:16

games , um , and that's crypto

29:19

. I mean they they do have nfts in

29:21

them , but it's it's not really like the main

29:23

, like the main product is the

29:25

the game . So it's a fun game like

29:27

that's , that's the main part of the the product and

29:30

then there is a crypto elements to it . But

29:32

but no , I I don't like make nft

29:34

collections or like meme coins

29:37

, like other influencers . I think that's , uh , it's

29:39

a good way to uh , um

29:41

, basically like steal

29:44

money . I would say like that's what people do like with these meme

29:46

coins and empty collections . It's just they

29:49

promote it to their , their audience and then they

29:51

take the money from their audience , basically . So I

29:53

don't promote that . I think it's

29:55

very shady . But

29:57

I promote real businesses with

30:00

actual products and long-term

30:02

visions that make

30:04

actual revenue . Because meme coins

30:06

they don't make money . They only make money because someone

30:08

loses money .

30:11

Do any of these meme coins have purported

30:14

utility ?

30:15

No , that's actually transparently

30:18

even the point

30:20

of meme coins . Everyone says there's

30:22

no point of them . They are just a meme coin . It's just

30:25

a joke , like and I

30:27

think that worked like many years ago with

30:29

Dogecoin , like Shiba and Floki , like these

30:31

big ones . But when it comes to these , like

30:34

influencers launching meme coins , like it's

30:36

just a complete , you know

30:38

, money grab that's all it is .

30:40

I read recently , like very recently , that

30:42

um was , you know , the hawk

30:44

to a girl yeah was

30:46

? Was she involved in some kind of pump and dump

30:48

or something ?

30:49

it said that she'd rugged people of like

30:51

50 million bucks or something yeah , so that's

30:53

the story , and I would actually I mean

30:55

, look , yes , it sounds very bad

30:57

and it is bad , um , but I would

30:59

like to defend her personally

31:02

because I , I think I mean , I don't know her , but

31:04

I'm very certain that she

31:06

doesn't really understand crypto , right like I think

31:08

there's one thing

31:10

she understands I mean , look , I think

31:13

she uh , she's not , she's not a crypto

31:15

guy like the rest of us . Um , I

31:17

think so . Um , I think she

31:20

got taken advantage of . I'm

31:23

sure she had some bad advisors next to her

31:25

that came to her and told her , like look

31:28

, we can make even 5 million , we can make millions

31:30

of dollars with a meme coin . We call it Hawk

31:32

Tua , and we can monetize

31:35

your fame and you'll make money and

31:37

your audience will make money . And she was like

31:39

, yeah , let's do it . And then they do it

31:41

. And then boom , advisors , they sell

31:43

all their money , they take all the money and

31:45

I think she most likely gets left there

31:47

with almost no profits , if any at

31:50

all , and just a huge dent

31:52

in her reputation . I

31:54

think that's what happened , without proof . I'm

31:57

just saying I'm very sure that happened . And

31:59

I think the same happened also with , like logan

32:01

, paul and these guys . I think they , uh

32:03

, they have bad advisors that

32:05

tell them what to do . Um and

32:07

uh and logan and hawk , two of these

32:09

guys that have like huge following . They

32:11

feel this FOMO that they should take advantage

32:13

of the uh , the bull market and their audience . Um

32:16

and they , they get bad advice and they

32:18

launch these things with no

32:20

experience , they don't know what to do , and the

32:23

advisors they leave after they make money and then

32:25

the project goes down . And yeah

32:27

, I think because , um

32:29

, I mean hoctua

32:31

, I don't know , like maybe she's not , she's probably not

32:33

so rich , but I mean logan paul , for example . He's

32:35

worth probably like 100 million above . Like

32:37

why would he create like a cryptocurrency

32:40

to make like 5 , 10 million ? Um

32:42

, if he knew that he would um damage

32:44

his reputation .

32:45

Yeah , like it's not worth it , you know so you know , but

32:47

I I'm with you on the hawk tour because

32:49

I mean , yeah , I'm sure , maybe , being

32:51

unfair to her , you'd look at her and think , yeah , she probably

32:53

, she probably doesn't understand anything about

32:56

crypto . But then I do look

32:58

at the , the logan , or you know , logan

33:00

and j and Jake , who are probably some

33:02

of the smartest business owners , certainly

33:04

some of the smartest marketeers out there , and

33:07

it's probably tougher to think that

33:09

they don't understand . I'm not saying for one minute

33:11

that they woke up and thought let's go and scam

33:13

people , but it is harder to believe

33:15

that they just do stuff because

33:18

an advisor says so .

33:21

I think so . Again , like Logan

33:23

, he would never wake up , like you said

33:25

, and say let me scam people for

33:27

5 , 10 million because he knows that his brand

33:29

is worth maybe billions , you know so

33:32

he would never think like that

33:34

. So I know that his intention when they started

33:36

it was definitely to create the product

33:38

, I'm 100 sure . But then the problem is

33:40

nine out of 10 startups fail . You know

33:42

of many reasons . You know , in

33:45

this situation it was not because of money , it was just

33:47

because I think maybe the product was just very bad

33:49

. There was no one there to actually make a good product

33:51

because they didn't really know what they were doing . So

33:54

I think it ended up being a failed

33:56

project . But I think that's probably

33:59

what it was . I

34:01

don't think it was necessarily a scam in the

34:03

sense of that was the intention

34:05

, but it became the

34:07

image of it . But

34:10

why would he risk his reputation

34:12

for 10 million when he's

34:14

worth so much more ? So I would like

34:16

to defend them , but

34:18

I don't think these

34:20

things were good things to do , right . But I

34:23

also know that from experience

34:25

, like I've seen my industry

34:27

friends doing the same mistake , you know like I've

34:29

done similar mistakes as well , like not at that

34:31

scale . But you know , and I

34:35

just think people get FOMO and they feel like they should

34:37

take advantage of the bull market and they have bad

34:39

advice and that's it . But people

34:41

learn and but yeah

34:43

, you , you're gonna see more of these things like you're gonna see more influencers

34:46

launching meme coins and all this bullshit . You know

34:48

, like , just don't buy them , like they're gonna

34:50

go to zero . That's the .

34:51

That's the thing I know you just said a minute

34:53

ago that you , that you don't do nfts

34:55

yourself , have you ? Have you bought nfts

34:58

? Um , you know , as in I don't't

35:00

know , bored Apes , obviously a popular

35:02

one . I mean , do you have Bored Apes ? What are those

35:04

cats called ?

35:05

I don't have any cats , no . But , I have

35:07

a Bored Ape and I have a CryptoPunk

35:10

, and then I bought a

35:12

handful of other things as well , but I think most

35:14

of them are down to zero now .

35:17

What's your view on them , that it was a

35:20

bit of fun at the time , but

35:22

the financial model of

35:24

them is gone . I mean , I guess if you bought

35:26

a Bordate before , it must be worth cents

35:28

on the dollar now , compared to .

35:30

Yeah , I lost money on them , for sure . I

35:33

don't care , because I didn't make them as an investment . I made

35:35

them more like . Just I felt

35:37

like I needed a couple of NFTs . But I'm

35:39

not an expert on NFTs , I don't really

35:41

.

35:41

Let's talk a bit about the crypto industry

35:43

in general , insofar as regulation

35:47

I mean . Obviously

35:50

the sector has been growing

35:52

massively over the last

35:54

few years . It's become a lot

35:56

more mainstream I mean

35:58

it is totally mainstream and

36:01

with that mainstreamness comes regulation

36:03

. Where do

36:06

you think ultimately that will take the

36:08

industry ? Because I guess my

36:10

layman's view is that in

36:12

the early days of crypto

36:14

it was that lack of regulation , it was

36:16

that ability to move

36:19

money around without

36:21

, without big institutions and and

36:23

lots of eyeballs being on you . It was , it

36:26

was banking for the unbanked

36:28

and and all these kind of things . But

36:30

you know , as as we move

36:32

into even aside from crypto

36:35

, you know what is just a constantly more

36:37

and more regulated world with you know , with AML

36:40

and all this business . Do

36:43

you think that will fundamentally

36:46

change what crypto was

36:48

all about in the beginning , do

36:52

you ?

36:53

think it will make it worse . Better , I think it's inevitable

36:55

that we get full regulation

36:57

and full KYC and everything , because that's

36:59

what governments want . But

37:02

it's not gonna necessarily hurt the crypto

37:04

industry . It will , um , it

37:06

will make it grow slower

37:08

, um , but I

37:10

don't think it's necessarily a bad thing . I mean , I

37:12

, I prefer if there's no kose , because

37:14

I think the point of crypto is

37:16

that it should be open for anyone and and hide

37:19

your , your . You should be able to have privacy

37:21

of money . I think that's very important , doesn't

37:23

mean that you do bad things with your money . But hey , maybe

37:25

you just want to like literally hide your

37:27

money from your wife , like you know , like

37:29

, uh , or you know I'm

37:31

not saying that , um , people necessarily

37:33

go and become terrorists just because they have privacy

37:35

of money . You know , like , maybe you just don't want

37:37

people to see what you're doing , and I think that's perfectly fine . If

37:40

I spend money on a car

37:45

or let's say something more private , like , yeah , I just

37:47

want , I don't want people to know exactly what I'm buying

37:49

always , and I think that's the point of

37:52

crypto to bring a degree of

37:54

privacy . But that's not

37:56

maybe the main point of crypto . The main point

37:58

of crypto is that you can send

38:00

it without someone stopping it . I think

38:02

that's even more important . You know more more

38:04

important than privacy and um , that

38:06

you can keep the money with yourself instead

38:08

of keeping it in a bank . That's actually the

38:10

most important thing , because most

38:12

people keep their money in the bank and

38:14

in the bank . Now , the bank holds

38:16

your money , they control your money , they make money on your

38:18

money and they even lend your money out

38:21

to someone else . So when you you want to get your money out

38:23

, you're lucky if it's there . You know

38:25

, like , if everyone goes to the bank at the same time and

38:27

gets the money out , maybe only

38:29

three , four or five percent of the people can actually

38:31

get their money out , because that's the only money that's actually

38:33

in the bank . So it's a fractional

38:35

reserve banking system . Where it's

38:37

actually . That's a scam , like you

38:43

know , know , they woke up in the morning and they told themselves let's scam the world , let's

38:45

scam every human being on the world . That's what

38:47

banks do . Um , banks are

38:49

, are , are evil in the sense that they

38:51

basically prey on , on human , uh , human

38:54

civilization and make us work for

38:56

, for , for , for the money , while

38:58

they just print it like this on a button

39:00

um , and that's

39:03

what bitcoin challenges , and I think that's a beautiful

39:05

thing . So that's why most of my net

39:07

worth is bitcoin and it will always be , and

39:10

I , every day , I want people to buy bitcoin

39:12

and accumulate bitcoin because I think it's

39:14

um , it's like

39:16

um , it's a , it's a human

39:18

right to have ownership

39:20

of your own money , like you should have ownership of your own money

39:22

, which you should have ownership of your own money , which you can with

39:24

Bitcoin , with gold , but with fiat

39:27

currencies you don't , and I

39:29

tell people every day to buy Bitcoin .

39:30

But you'll always need that fiat

39:33

system though , won't you , I

39:35

guess ? Even if you keep your

39:37

wealth in Bitcoin or gold , like

39:41

you say , that you're always

39:43

going to need to off-ramp

39:45

something at some point .

39:47

No , you don't need the fiat system . The

39:49

fiat system is actually completely unnecessary

39:51

.

39:53

But only if the entire world

39:55

decided to dump the fiat

39:58

system and adopt

40:00

Bitcoin . Because I guess it's like

40:02

, um , I

40:04

guess it's just like having two currencies in it . You can

40:06

say , well , the dollar is better than the euro

40:09

, for example , but you

40:11

can have all the dollars in the world . But if you want to , go shopping

40:13

in paris , then then you need

40:15

to change some dollars into euros okay

40:18

.

40:18

So basically , um , right

40:20

now bitcoin is priced in dollars , right

40:22

, we always say , oh , it's $107,000

40:25

or whatever . That will

40:27

change , because soon one , bitcoin

40:30

will probably be worth a trillion dollars

40:32

. You know , because of inflation

40:34

. The dollar loses value every single year

40:36

through inflation , because they keep printing that money and

40:39

, by the way , when they print money , they're still purchasing

40:41

power from everyone who holds the dollar right

40:43

and all the other fiat currencies . So it's theft

40:45

, um , but in the future

40:48

, we will not think

40:50

in terms of dollars anymore . We will think in terms

40:52

of bitcoin . So , basically , you will price

40:54

, uh , bitcoin not

40:56

in dollars , but in terms of what you can

40:58

buy for it . Same luck with the dollar . You

41:00

don't really price the dollar against

41:03

itself . You use

41:06

it as the measurement tool of other things

41:08

.

41:08

So you're saying that that house is one Bitcoin

41:11

, that is 0.002

41:13

.

41:14

Because today you're saying , well , a house is

41:16

a million dollars , but in the future it's going to be . Well , it's 1.1

41:18

Bitcoin , or maybe 13,000

41:21

Satoshis , which

41:23

is the smallest part of bitcoin . That's how it will be in the future and

41:25

that's when you know that bitcoin has taken

41:28

over as the money of the world . Maybe

41:30

it takes 20 , 30 years , I have no clue

41:33

, but I'm saying it's going to happen because I know it's

41:35

going to happen . Um and um

41:37

at that point , what the

41:39

dollar is going to be at , I think it's going to be close to zero

41:41

, just like Zimbabwe , and you

41:44

have now inflation in Turkey and the

41:46

South American countries . There's

41:48

now so much inflation in the world where

41:51

the national currency

41:53

of those countries is falling so fast

41:55

that people have to buy things just to

41:57

kind of survive . They have to get rid

41:59

of their fiat currency , and this will

42:01

happen with the dollar as well . It is happening . It's

42:03

just going to escalate over the next few years

42:06

and I am very

42:08

, very sure about that . So

42:10

Bitcoin is like the Noah's Ark of

42:13

a tsunami of

42:15

fiat collapse . That's

42:18

what I usually say .

42:19

Only Bitcoin ? Or where

42:21

will some other big name coins

42:23

, like an Ethereum

42:26

or like an XRP or something ? Where will

42:28

they sit in this journey ?

42:30

I personally don't hold XRP for

42:33

long

42:35

term investment . I did make a bit of

42:37

a famous trade actually on XRP .

42:40

I watched it this morning . You ran

42:42

$211,000 up

42:44

to 5 million bucks or something .

42:46

Yeah , yeah yeah , so I basically I took 200

42:48

000 , a little bit more like two , I think it was 250

42:51

or something like this . Um , all in

42:53

all , and I put it with the high

42:55

x leverage and , uh , with

42:57

an inverse perpetual contract on a bybit

42:59

, which means that I make the profits in

43:01

the xrp currency itself

43:03

, not in us dollars . So the the

43:05

gains were exponential and I made

43:07

this public trade . Where I did it , I opened it

43:10

up on my channel , I showed people and

43:12

then , at the top , I sold everything and then

43:14

in basically four weeks , I made 5.3 million

43:16

dollars with xrp , like that . So , um

43:19

, and I sold it already and I bought eth

43:21

, dogecoin and Solana with those profits

43:23

.

43:24

And just so I understand , when you say you made a trade

43:26

, was this like a single

43:28

trade ? So I guess , putting it in in

43:31

layman's fiat terms , for example , this

43:33

is like I bought this building for

43:35

a million dollars and I sold it a

43:37

month later for $2 million

43:39

. It's not that you bought this building

43:41

, sold that , bought another .

43:43

This is not one single trade . I

43:45

opened it up at $0.60 . And

43:49

then four weeks later , I

43:52

closed it at I think it was $0.02 . $0.07

43:54

. But with high X leverage

43:56

.

43:57

So what we're saying is in that four-week period

43:59

, the price of XRP actually ran from

44:01

0.6 to 2.11 . And

44:04

you bought loads of it

44:06

because you bought it on leverage . How much

44:08

can you lever up ?

44:09

You can do like 100x , I would say Really

44:11

, yeah , you can do , but basically yeah . So

44:13

you saw a massive Burj Khalifa candle and

44:16

that's basically what I was expecting and it

44:18

was a perfect trade . I

44:22

think it's one of my best trades ever , for sure . Um , so that was an incredible

44:25

trade , but it doesn't mean that I endorse xrp , like I'm not a fan

44:27

of xrp . Uh , it's just a trade

44:29

for me and that's the thing same with most altcoins

44:31

. I I don't endorse them

44:33

, I don't tell people to buy them long term . I

44:35

just open up a trade if I

44:37

see a good trade . Uh , and on my channel

44:40

, the moon show , I show people which trade I make

44:42

and sometimes

44:44

I win , sometimes I lose , but when I win

44:46

, usually I win big and that's how I pay

44:49

for my losses . What's your biggest loss , worst

44:51

trade you've ever done ? definitely , I lost

44:53

millions in the past , but

44:57

there's not one

44:59

that sticks to mind that

45:01

terrible decision you made well

45:03

, I mean , yes , but that was like

45:05

very long time ago when I lost like $300,000

45:08

, which to me then was like a huge amount , and

45:11

but that was like four or five years ago

45:13

. I remember that very vividly . That was bad , that

45:16

was horrible . What did you learn

45:18

from it ? Well , I learned to not

45:20

do not . Well

45:24

, you shouldn't trade with emotions . First of all , don't

45:26

do revenge trading , because that's what I was was

45:28

doing there . I was , I lost another trade before

45:31

, even maybe two trades , and then I increased

45:33

my position more and more to kind of win back what I

45:35

lost . And by doing that I

45:37

I completely messed up and I

45:39

I lost a lot of money . So revenge

45:42

trading is the the first thing you should never

45:44

do like like emotional gambling

45:47

, basically like trying to get

45:49

back what you lost . That's

45:51

, that's bad . When you lost , you should just

45:53

turn off the computer , take a couple of

45:55

weeks in the in the forest to come back with

45:57

a new , fresh slate and think make new

45:59

money , don't make money back .

46:01

Because making money back usually you

46:03

you getting emotional and you make

46:05

bad decisions do you

46:07

use the words you know , take some time

46:09

off in the forest as a , as a figure

46:11

of speech , or or , or do

46:13

you have that side of your life like do you turn

46:16

the phones off , turn the computers off and

46:18

, uh , disappear to the wilderness .

46:19

I wish I could do more of that , um , and I

46:22

mean , I live in Dubai . We don't have a forest , but

46:24

I guess what I mean is

46:26

like just take a break from trading , from

46:28

investments , and just like take a couple of weeks

46:30

of doing other things , like

46:32

focus on life , you know , and

46:35

then come back with a fresh mind . That's

46:37

important .

46:38

What's your 2025 Bitcoin prediction

46:40

?

46:40

2025 , I think we're going

46:42

to be probably like 200 , 300k

46:44

, if not way higher . I think

46:47

it's possible that we could see something

46:49

like 600 , 700k , which

46:54

would be mind-blowing , of course , to most people , but for me , I

46:56

would not be surprised at all , because we

46:58

have the ETF now , so it's easy to buy

47:00

Bitcoin for anyone in the world Just

47:03

like buying a Facebook stock , you can buy Bitcoin . So

47:05

liquidity is much higher now , like

47:07

the access to liquidity is much higher . Trump

47:11

is president . I mean , look , people say

47:13

what they want about presidents but he is bullish

47:15

on crypto . That's very good for crypto , that's just a fact

47:17

. And then we have

47:19

Michael Saylor is buying

47:21

billions and billions of dollars worth of crypto and

47:24

bitcoin , and that's good

47:26

. But also what he's doing , which is even more important

47:28

, that people talk not as much about

47:30

, is the fact that he's inspiring other big

47:32

companies to do the same . So you

47:34

have his billions coming in , but also other billions

47:37

coming in thanks to him , so that's huge

47:39

. And then you have inflation . So

47:41

inflation is increasing all the time , not

47:43

only in the united states or in in uae

47:46

or europe , but like literally everywhere in the world

47:49

, and it's even worse in in many countries . So

47:51

you know , with high

47:54

inflation that you see in many countries now people

47:57

are buying bitcoin now not

47:59

because they want to buy it . They're

48:01

buying it because they literally have to buy it . They

48:03

don't really have a choice , like they need to

48:05

save their purchasing power of their wealth . And

48:08

when this skyrockets , when this

48:10

spirals and you have the snowball effect

48:12

, eventually Bitcoin will

48:14

become like a black hole that

48:16

sucks in all of that money

48:19

printing , because the more they print , the less confidence people have in the fiat currency system . Sucks

48:21

in all of that money printing , because the more they print , the less confidence people

48:24

have in the fiat currency system . And then people's

48:26

money will go somewhere else and I am extremely

48:29

confident that Bitcoin will be

48:31

that financial monetary

48:33

black hole where all the money

48:35

goes in . And then we're going to stop talking

48:38

about what's the price of Bitcoin , because

48:40

Bitcoin is going to be the actual

48:43

instrument we use to price other things

48:45

in . So , like

48:47

I said , it could take 20 , 30 years , but also

48:49

if the dollar collapses in 10 years

48:51

or five years , it's going to happen at that point . So

48:54

I think we're on the verge of

48:56

that happening and

48:58

if you want to be on the right side of that wealth

49:00

transfer , because that's all it is actually actually

49:02

like . You can't destroy money

49:04

. Money is energy and if people went to school

49:06

, which I kind of did , I learned , you know

49:09

the loss of thermodynamics

49:12

. In English I'm not sure , but basically

49:14

, energy

49:17

can't be destroyed , it cannot be . It can only

49:19

move places . You can change energy's form , but it

49:21

cannot be . It can only move places you can . You can change energy's form

49:24

, but you cannot destroy it . That's the same

49:26

with money . So just

49:28

because the dollar collapses doesn't mean that that

49:31

money is gone . Now the energy

49:33

, the monetary energy , will just

49:35

go somewhere else . It could go to gold , it

49:37

could go to real estate , could go to Bitcoin

49:39

. In my opinion , most of it will go to

49:42

gold , silver and Bitcoin . Raoul

49:44

PAL .

49:45

What about luxury goods ?

49:47

VLAD HYRBAL . I don't think so , because

49:49

luxury goods right now most

49:52

of it , is propped up by

49:54

the fact that people need

49:56

to buy them . So if I explain

49:58

it like this , inflation… RAOUL PAL .

50:00

When I say luxury goods , I'm not talking about a gucci

50:03

handbag .

50:03

I'm talking , you know , the pateks , the rolexes

50:05

, the richard meals you know , um classic

50:08

cars art um

50:10

, I would say no , because the

50:12

the problem with art and classic

50:14

cars and even real estate , uh

50:17

, and watches right now is that people are using

50:19

these things not

50:21

for their true intended purpose , but

50:24

they're using them as money . The

50:26

reason why they're using them as money is

50:28

because their other money sucks

50:30

. The dollar absolutely

50:33

sucks . The fiat system

50:35

sucks . It has so much inflation

50:37

that and that's actually

50:39

the intended purpose of

50:41

fiat they want to print it

50:43

so that you go and spend . That's

50:45

actually how the monetary policy works , like that's

50:48

keynesian economics . That's that's

50:50

what what they're doing . They they're

50:52

pushing you to take that and spend

50:54

your money because that's how they get the economy

50:56

economy going . Like it's completely

50:58

bullshit , like it's a stupid system , but that's how

51:01

, how mainstream economics works . Um

51:03

, and the problem now is that , instead

51:05

of using fiat as people's savings

51:08

, uh , people are buying

51:10

cars and watches , and and real estate

51:12

, and and and art , uh

51:14

, to basically store wealth and

51:17

and . Um . The problem with that

51:19

is the moment we

51:21

see a financial collapse and

51:24

especially with real estate is a good example , because

51:26

people will start selling

51:28

their real estate , and I'll tell you why Because many

51:30

people now they have like 10

51:33

apartments Like I'm saying many , but like , yeah , people

51:35

that are rich People in Dubai .

51:37

Yeah .

51:37

No , but like there's a lot of people today

51:40

that take real estate just

51:42

as a pure investment , right , like they have 10 apartments

51:44

or they have maybe they have two villas

51:46

or three villas , whatever and I'm

51:48

not saying everyone . Yeah , I'm like I

51:51

am a little bit humble still , but

51:53

the problem here is that these

51:55

people are buying real estate to

51:57

invest , not to live there . And actually

51:59

the true intended purpose of buying a villa

52:02

since thousands of years or like hundreds of years

52:04

, is you buy a home

52:06

to live in there , to shelter

52:08

your family , right , that's the

52:10

point of a home . So

52:16

real estate has now become a

52:18

better money than money itself . So

52:22

when you have a financial collapse , a

52:24

lot of people to uh

52:26

, they will sell these villas because they don't live there

52:28

, they're just gonna sell them . So I think that there's gonna be stock

52:31

like a real estate crash initially

52:33

. Uh , when you see a fiat collapse

52:35

, because people are just gonna start selling everything they have

52:37

to to basically save their wealth and

52:40

they will only keep the the they actually live

52:42

in . So I think real estate

52:44

is massively overvalued compared

52:46

to where it should be right now , because people

52:48

are using real estate as money , not as

52:50

a home , and the same goes for

52:52

classic cars and all these things . Um , gold

52:56

is deeply undervalued right now . Silver

52:58

deeply undervalued . Uh , bitcoin

53:01

extremely undervalued . Um

53:03

, those are the only assets I would accumulate

53:07

heavily right now . Uh , when

53:09

I buy watches and cars and stuff , it's just for fun

53:11

, like I also want to take profits and like enjoy life

53:13

, but I don't expect them to necessarily

53:15

like make me more money

53:17

in the future . I buy them not as an

53:19

investment , I buy them just for for enjoying

53:22

life , but you don't expect them to tank either .

53:24

I mean , if you were buying a $250,000

53:27

watch , as much as you

53:29

could maybe afford to lose it , you

53:31

probably wouldn't be buying that watch if you thought

53:33

it was going to go to zero .

53:35

I don't think it's going to go to zero . But I

53:37

also think that when you see a stock market

53:39

crash like a proper one and

53:41

I think we're going to see one of that very

53:43

soon I think we're going to see , like you know , a 1929

53:47

kind of depression , stock market

53:49

crash at some point Maybe not in the next five

53:51

years , but in the next like 10 , 15 years . We're going to see

53:53

it and at that moment I

53:56

think watches will become almost worthless , because

53:58

who's going to buy watches when people are struggling to

54:00

survive ? And it will happen

54:02

like people live in their dream

54:04

world now , with like keynesian economics where they

54:06

just print money out of nowhere to save you . But

54:09

it's like kicking the can down the road

54:11

and eventually you can't keep printing

54:14

because it's an . You

54:17

can't print money into infinity because when you

54:19

do , the value devalues

54:21

and eventually you're debasing the whole currency

54:23

base and it's gone . So

54:26

eventually you're you're going to see a

54:29

stock market crash that's completely

54:31

destroys the

54:33

financial world and that means

54:35

90% of people in the world

54:37

will lose basically all

54:39

they have , and that's extremely

54:42

unfortunate . But

54:45

it is programmed , it's

54:48

an inevitable fact and

54:51

the only thing people can do now is to accumulate

54:54

Bitcoin , gold and silver to save

54:56

themselves from that

54:58

disaster . Like I said earlier

55:00

, I view Bitcoin as a Noah's Ark

55:03

. You know , the disaster is coming

55:05

, the collapse is coming , the flood is coming . So

55:08

get on a boat , buy Bitcoin . That's

55:10

your boat . Did you buy gold as well ? I

55:12

did . Before Bitcoin , I was buying gold . Right

55:14

now , I still only buy Bitcoin because the price is

55:17

so low . Bitcoin is still like 100K

55:19

. I'm

55:28

expecting Bitcoin to go to millions of dollars , but next year , in 2025

55:30

, when bitcoin goes like two , three hundred k , I am going to be liquidating

55:32

some bitcoin into gold because gold is , in my opinion , like you know , such an obvious

55:35

, obvious investment when you say bitcoin

55:37

right now is so cheap , I mean what

55:39

are you benchmarking that against ?

55:41

so cheap , against what you cheap , against what you

55:43

think it will be worth in the future ? So

55:45

that would be like someone saying I'm

55:47

buying whatever I'm . I'm buying marx

55:49

and spencer shares now because they're

55:52

cheap , because what they

55:54

believe , that they believe that

55:56

the , the cash flow , the future cash

55:58

flow , etc . Dictates that that share must

56:00

be at a higher price well , it's cheap against

56:02

the gold , for example .

56:04

Gold is worth , I think , 15 trillion . Uh

56:07

, bitcoin is less than 2 trillion . So I

56:10

think bitcoin easily should go up six

56:12

, seven , eight , x to par

56:14

gold . I think that could happen already

56:16

next year if we're very lucky . Um

56:18

, but in the next five years I am extremely

56:21

confident that will happen . So that means Bitcoin

56:23

could go to like 700 , even

56:26

, yeah , let's say , a million dollars within five years . I

56:28

think that's very , very likely

56:30

to happen . And

56:32

it's also cheap against the dollar . The dollar

56:34

is I think it's maybe

56:37

I don't remember the exact number but tens

56:39

of trillions . That's the value of the

56:41

dollar . So it's very

56:43

cheap against the dollar . It's cheap against the currency

56:45

, the fiat currency system , which is worth like $100

56:48

trillion . So , yeah

56:50

, it's cheap against those bigger currencies

56:52

. And I think that Bitcoin will

56:55

become the

56:57

currency of the world

56:59

in the future . And against that

57:02

future it's very cheap because when bitcoin

57:04

goes to that future , it

57:07

has to be at six

57:09

, seven , eight million dollars per coin , because

57:12

that would mean now bitcoin is the money of the world

57:14

. And it can go even higher than

57:16

that , because I think not only will

57:18

bitcoin take over the , the fiat

57:20

currency of the world , which is like 100 trillion , but

57:23

a lot of that real estate money that I talked about earlier

57:25

will also go to Bitcoin . I

57:27

think the real estate market is valued at like hundreds

57:30

of trillions of dollars , and maybe

57:33

only 20-30% of

57:35

that is people

57:37

that live in their own homes . Most

57:39

of it is people using real estate as money . So

57:42

when they sell , what are they going to

57:44

sell into the dollar ? Definitely

57:46

not , because it's going to be devalued . Gold

57:49

, yeah , probably Bitcoin , most

57:51

definitely . So you have hundreds

57:54

of trillions . So first you have the 100

57:56

trillion of fiat money and then maybe

57:58

, let's say , another 100 trillion or more

58:00

from real estate , and then you have probably

58:03

tens of trillions of dollars worth of

58:05

other financial instruments from stock

58:07

markets , because people use stock market as money as

58:09

well . Um , you

58:11

probably have like maybe three , four , five hundred

58:14

trillion dollars worth of money , um

58:16

, or economic energy that

58:18

could go to bitcoin

58:20

and gold , and if half

58:22

of that goes to bitcoin , then , yeah , bitcoin could go to

58:24

maybe 15 million dollars per coin , and

58:26

then you could you could buy a private jet with the

58:28

, with the bitcoin in the future and you're

58:30

going to be talking about yeah

58:33

, how much is the jet in bitcoin

58:35

because the dollar will be like worthless . So

58:37

, yeah , I would say , yeah , 15 million dollars

58:39

per per bitcoin is possible

58:42

, maybe even 20 , you know , in today's

58:44

money . So without inflation

58:46

, so with inflation , yeah , like

58:48

it's going to be worth . Bitcoin

58:50

will be worth probably a trillion dollars or $15

58:53

trillion , because the dollar itself will

58:55

be completely worthless .

58:57

You mentioned Michael Saylor a minute ago . Just

59:00

what does he actually do ? Because , you

59:02

know , I always see his name popping up , you know , online

59:04

or in in newspaper articles saying

59:06

you know , saylor's just bought another x

59:09

million bitcoins , and to

59:11

me it just seems like all he does is borrow fiat

59:13

money to

59:15

go and buy bitcoin . I mean , he doesn't seem

59:18

to do any business . He literally he just buys

59:20

bitcoin and sits there and everyone says how amazing

59:22

he is because he's made all this money

59:24

. But I mean , I guess he has to service

59:26

his fiat debt in some way as well . Does

59:28

he actually have a trading business as well , or is

59:30

he literally just stockpiling Bitcoin ?

59:32

He's literally just stockpiling Bitcoin

59:34

. That's all he does .

59:36

So when he has to pay fiat returns

59:38

to these investors on the

59:40

bonds and things that he raises , he just

59:42

liquidates a bit of Bitcoin to pay them

59:44

.

59:44

Which he can easily do because his profits are

59:46

now , as we're recording this , I

59:48

think , $20 billion in

59:50

profits Really . So

59:53

, yeah , he's completely killing it . I

59:55

think , yeah , people say

59:57

, yeah , you don't have any business model , but look

1:00:01

on average , I think he's making like probably a billion

1:00:03

per month in in in

1:00:06

profits on bitcoin . That's more than

1:00:08

most big companies

1:00:10

in the world like I don't even know if , like I

1:00:12

don't know what apple is making per month , but like it's

1:00:15

probably on that level you know , like so

1:00:17

I think he's , um , he's

1:00:20

absolutely killing it and

1:00:22

if I had access to making that much debt

1:00:25

to buy Bitcoin , I

1:00:28

would do the same 100% . But I don't have access

1:00:30

to that because I don't have , like a big publicly traded

1:00:32

company that can do that . But

1:00:35

, yeah , I would say he's killing

1:00:37

it like crazy . And basically his company is like

1:00:40

it's almost like an ETF on

1:00:42

Bitcoin , but with leverage . There's like

1:00:44

a 2x leveraged Bitcoin ETF and

1:00:48

yeah , people are buying it . In the bear market , most

1:00:50

likely , the stock will tank like crazy

1:00:52

, but as long as there's

1:00:55

a bull market , it's going to go up . But I also

1:00:57

don't think the stock should go lower than

1:00:59

the value of the Bitcoin they hold . That

1:01:02

wouldn't really make sense . If it does , then it's a great buy

1:01:04

to buy MicroStrategy , because then you're basically

1:01:07

getting a discount on Bitcoin . But

1:01:09

I just don't think that's going to happen , because it

1:01:11

would be strange if it goes down below the value of the Bitcoin .

1:01:14

What's your view on centralized

1:01:16

exchanges versus decentralized

1:01:18

exchanges ? I ?

1:01:19

think I would

1:01:22

love to see decentralized exchanges become

1:01:24

the norm , but

1:01:26

they're still not perfect

1:01:29

enough for that . So centralized

1:01:32

exchanges are still the way to

1:01:34

go . And

1:01:36

, yeah , like people

1:01:38

want to have a customer service they can call

1:01:40

, and that's why centralized

1:01:43

exchanges are the best .

1:01:44

But even if they use it , whether they're using centralized

1:01:46

or decentralized , I mean , are you

1:01:48

, are you advocating that people

1:01:51

should still be keeping the Bitcoin on cold

1:01:53

storage or keeping the crypto ? I think , I

1:01:56

mean , do you have anything on on exchanges

1:01:58

, just to give you a bit of quick liquidity ?

1:02:00

I do I hold ? Like in

1:02:02

my Bybit account now I have like $30 million

1:02:04

Like . Cause that ? Like in my Bybit account now I have like $30

1:02:07

million Like because that's what I'm using for like buying

1:02:09

, going in and out of like altcoins and some leverage trading and like

1:02:11

some yield things , but

1:02:13

no , most of my money I hold on cold

1:02:15

storage like very secure places where

1:02:17

not even I have direct access , you know

1:02:19

. So it's like very

1:02:21

secure . What do you ?

1:02:23

mean you don't have direct access .

1:02:24

Well , I don't want , like most money

1:02:26

, it has to be like triple signatures and stuff

1:02:28

. So basically , like I don't want someone

1:02:31

to just like be able to come up to me like

1:02:42

put a gun to me and say , send your Bitcoin . Like it doesn't work like that . Like

1:02:44

for me it's a process Like you can fine , you know

1:02:46

. But same like Michael Saylor , like

1:02:48

he holds what like $50

1:02:50

billion worth of Bitcoin I

1:02:52

don't think he has it on like one little ledger and just

1:02:54

put it in one safe , you know , because then it's like quite

1:02:57

easy for someone to go steal it . So

1:03:02

I don't know how he does the security , because that's a lot of

1:03:04

money , but he solved it somehow .

1:03:05

I guess I mean we talk about stealing . I mean , I know

1:03:07

it's yesterday's news to a degree , but

1:03:09

you kind of can't have a crypto conversation without

1:03:11

talking about FTX . I

1:03:15

mean , do things like that scare

1:03:17

big industry players like you ? I

1:03:20

mean , I know , to the man on the street who

1:03:23

probably didn't even understand the crypto they were investing

1:03:26

in the first place , you know , scares like

1:03:28

that , you know , probably put them

1:03:30

off an industry that they

1:03:32

didn't even know much about and were scared about

1:03:34

in the beginning . But I mean , where does that make someone

1:03:36

like yourself think you know that ? I mean it

1:03:39

could happen . It could happen on any major

1:03:41

exchange .

1:03:43

Yes , and that's why I only promote and

1:03:46

talk about exchanges that I personally trust .

1:03:49

Sorry , but my question is less about you say

1:03:51

promoting someone bad . But

1:03:53

why do you trust ? Why do

1:03:55

you trust the ones you trust ? You know , did you trust him

1:03:57

at the time ?

1:03:58

So , for example , ftx , they asked

1:04:01

me to promote them and I told them no because

1:04:03

I just didn't trust their

1:04:05

business model and I just

1:04:07

I didn't get the right feeling with them . Um

1:04:10

, and when I promote anything , my

1:04:12

legal team always has full due diligence

1:04:14

done on exchanges and projects

1:04:16

and everything . So most of them don't

1:04:19

pass our due diligence . Um

1:04:21

, and those companies I promote

1:04:23

now , like by Coinflare

1:04:26

and a couple of other exchanges they

1:04:30

I met the founder myself

1:04:32

, like I know the CEO myself very

1:04:34

important and

1:04:37

my legal team has made due diligence

1:04:39

. We see the company set up , like the business license

1:04:41

, like all these things that we know that is a legit

1:04:44

setup and if something happens we know who

1:04:46

to blame . You know , um and um

1:04:48

, basically , yeah , so I , I

1:04:50

take that very seriously . There's so many random

1:04:52

like chinese exchanges reaching out , but I

1:04:55

don't trust them so I don't promote

1:04:57

them . Um , but yeah

1:04:59

, bybit , I trust . I've been with bybit since

1:05:01

six years . I was , I've been their biggest

1:05:03

kol . You know , like , I gave them hundreds of billions

1:05:05

of dollars worth of trading volume over

1:05:07

the years and , um

1:05:10

, and yeah , I

1:05:12

, I trust them , so that's why I trade with them let's

1:05:14

have a , a complete change of direction

1:05:17

and change of pace .

1:05:18

Uh , let's talk about . Talk about , uh

1:05:20

, the man behind

1:05:23

the money , the man behind the crypto

1:05:26

. You're a massive music fan . I

1:05:30

see you online playing

1:05:32

your guitar and doing a bit of singing . Very

1:05:35

impressive . Where

1:05:37

did that come from ? Have you

1:05:39

always been a musical buff .

1:05:41

Yeah , ever since I was probably like 11

1:05:44

or 12 , I was playing

1:05:46

a little bit of guitar and trying to

1:05:48

create my own songs . So ever since then

1:05:51

, I've been writing songs and I love making

1:05:53

music . I love writing songs , I love

1:05:55

creating things

1:05:57

, Like I'm very creative , but

1:06:00

, yeah , my biggest passion in life is actually making

1:06:02

music . So right now , I've been focused

1:06:04

on money for the past few years , which is good . Now

1:06:06

I have money . But now I want to focus

1:06:08

on things I I really love doing and that's

1:06:10

why I I , I want to um

1:06:13

, you know , release some of those songs

1:06:15

I'm I'm writing , and I'm

1:06:18

not doing that to make money because , frankly , I don't have

1:06:20

to make any more money now . It's all about

1:06:22

just creative , freedom and having fun , and

1:06:24

that's what I'm gonna do . I . I write all and having fun , and that's what I'm going

1:06:26

to do . I write all the songs myself

1:06:28

and that's my

1:06:30

biggest passion .

1:06:32

I also see you a lot online with your brother

1:06:34

. Your brother was

1:06:36

born with Down syndrome right

1:06:38

, and when I was doing a bit of research

1:06:41

for this earlier , I saw you say that he'd

1:06:43

also suffered cancer

1:06:45

twice as well . Is he your

1:06:47

only sibling ? I have him also suffered cancer twice as well . Is he your only sibling ? I

1:06:49

have him , and then my sister as well . What's

1:06:53

that been like , I guess

1:06:55

, to grow up with when you were at home , and

1:06:59

how do you find that relationship now ? I

1:07:01

mean , looking at it as a layman , just

1:07:04

following you online , you obviously seem like

1:07:06

the , the very proud

1:07:08

big brother that gets to uh

1:07:10

, that gets to spend your , spend your

1:07:12

success and and make him

1:07:14

super happy I mean I I guess how , how

1:07:17

much he understands about what's going

1:07:19

on . I I don't know , but you talk to me a

1:07:21

bit about that relationship yeah , so

1:07:23

he um , yeah , he's disabled

1:07:26

.

1:07:26

Unfortunately , he's mentally disabled with the down

1:07:29

syndrome , and he had cancer twice

1:07:31

. He was born also with a heart condition , um

1:07:33

, and he was also born with a lymph angioma on his

1:07:35

leg , which is like a huge cyst that

1:07:38

was extremely aggressive and

1:07:40

he had 11 surgeries there and

1:07:43

and had a big

1:07:45

impact on his life for many years . So

1:07:47

all these things are are like

1:07:49

, if you take these diseases and spread them

1:07:51

out on like 100 people , it's

1:07:53

still like statistically a lot of

1:07:55

like , it's still like an anomaly

1:07:58

. So having all of that in one person

1:08:00

, like that , is extremely unlikely

1:08:03

and extremely unfortunate . And he

1:08:05

never did anything to anyone , so he doesn't deserve it and

1:08:08

it's it's just horrible . Um

1:08:10

, and , of course , the family also got

1:08:12

affected , because , you know , when you

1:08:14

have a child that is born with these kind

1:08:16

of diseases , it affects the child , obviously

1:08:19

, but also the family , because

1:08:21

you know , my parents , they had to

1:08:23

live in the hospital for years , uh

1:08:26

, with him , um , and me

1:08:28

and my sister . We were , you know , also

1:08:31

affected , of course , but my parents

1:08:33

, they they didn't tell us always

1:08:35

, like how bad it was . You know , like when he was like close

1:08:37

to not surviving , they never told us

1:08:39

like really the full picture , because they thought what's

1:08:42

the point of , like , putting stress on us . But

1:08:44

, um , my parents have

1:08:46

been through a lot , you know , and my brother , they've been

1:08:48

through , they've been fighting , you know , like a complete war

1:08:52

against , against these diseases

1:08:55

. So that's horrible . Uh

1:08:57

, he's alive and well today , like he's completely

1:09:00

healthy . Now , obviously you can't cure

1:09:02

Down syndrome but , um , cancer

1:09:05

is gone , his leg is now okay

1:09:07

, like it's it's it's okay , even though

1:09:09

it looks like the chainsaw massacre here , like it's horrible

1:09:11

. His leg is completely destroyed . Uh

1:09:13

, but he can walk , um , so that's good . And

1:09:16

um , yeah , I mean , I

1:09:19

guess that's the background that led me into

1:09:21

, uh , charities for children with Down

1:09:23

syndrome and any

1:09:26

disability . So I

1:09:29

made a few donations to charities

1:09:31

where they help

1:09:35

children with any disabilities . That's

1:09:38

very important for me . So

1:09:40

it's because I have first-hand experience from

1:09:42

that .

1:09:43

Do you find it fuels you in any

1:09:45

way , either

1:09:47

to be more successful , to give

1:09:50

back to , to your brother or to your parents

1:09:52

, who've everything they've they've

1:09:54

suffered you is it . Is it a motivating

1:09:57

factor in in any way in your life

1:09:59

, or it's just something you've always just learned

1:10:01

to live with ?

1:10:02

um , I just think it's like a , an obligation

1:10:05

, like I think it has to be done . You know , like

1:10:07

when I have money and I

1:10:09

know how people are struggling , children are struggling

1:10:11

, I need to do something . You know

1:10:13

, like it's . It's like um , it's

1:10:16

just a um , it's an obligation

1:10:18

, you know .

1:10:19

So that's how I see it , uh

1:10:21

, and that's why I do it so

1:10:23

you said to to me this morning that when

1:10:26

I retire I'm going to release an album

1:10:28

. I know you said a minute ago you'd

1:10:30

like to release an album , but you never mentioned the

1:10:32

words when I retire . Was

1:10:36

that a comment in jest or is there

1:10:38

a retired Carl and

1:10:41

a winding down Moon Group

1:10:43

in the future ?

1:10:44

So yeah , I'm going gonna retire from crypto

1:10:47

, maybe already like 2025

1:10:50

, 2026 , like , and not what

1:10:52

?

1:10:52

not touch it , not make a trade again .

1:10:54

Just sit on the bitcoin and I will just sit

1:10:56

on all my bitcoin , my , my , my crypto

1:10:58

holdings and just let it run . Yeah

1:11:00

, um , I will still

1:11:03

have my businesses , of course , um

1:11:05

, but I will have people that are running them for

1:11:07

me and taking care of business , and

1:11:09

I want to focus on racing cars

1:11:12

around the world , being with my family

1:11:14

, being with my little brother , making

1:11:16

music and just enjoying life , as

1:11:19

I think my life should be , because I think money

1:11:22

. I don't want money to be the point

1:11:24

of my life , because I think money it's

1:11:26

a means to an end . You know , I think money

1:11:29

, um , is

1:11:31

good because it allows you to live your life

1:11:33

. You should be living , but you shouldn't

1:11:35

be living your life for the money

1:11:37

, you know . So for the past few years , I

1:11:40

have frankly been living my life

1:11:42

for the money a bit , because I'm like I have

1:11:44

to make all the money . I have to be rich and wealthy

1:11:46

, which I think is a good , motivating thing

1:11:48

, because you need to make that money . It's very good to have a lot of money

1:11:50

and it gives you freedom . Uh , like I said

1:11:52

earlier , money is energy and

1:11:54

that's all it is actually , and having

1:11:57

an abundance of energy around you creates that

1:11:59

freedom freedom of location

1:12:01

, freedom of choice , freedom of , like you know , getting

1:12:03

out of trouble . Like money solves

1:12:05

a lot of problems , so I think that's very good to have

1:12:08

. But now that I have money , like even if I

1:12:10

double my net worth now

1:12:12

or 10 exit , it is not going to

1:12:14

change my life . Like I'm already rich . You

1:12:16

know , I'm sure you're also at this point where , like you're

1:12:18

already rich , at the point like , even if you 10x

1:12:20

your life , or like your , your , your

1:12:22

net worth , you're still going

1:12:24

to live approximately the same life , maybe a nicer

1:12:26

car , maybe you're going to buy a jet , but like it's

1:12:29

not going to dramatically change

1:12:31

your living quality .

1:12:32

You mentioned the magic word freedom . You

1:12:35

know , I think when people are on that quest to make

1:12:37

money , you look at it in

1:12:39

terms of tangible things and then when you have the tangible

1:12:42

things , you realize they

1:12:44

aren't the things that matter . And

1:12:52

you know my , my year , this last year , has been a bit of a different story . It's been a , let's

1:12:54

say , a personal bear year as opposed to a personal bull year . You know , I've I've

1:12:56

had a lot of headaches , a lot of problems and a

1:12:58

lot of my attention and cash taken

1:13:01

away from from where I want

1:13:03

it to be . But it's it's

1:13:05

made me very much realize as well

1:13:07

the things that matter to

1:13:09

me , that you know I've

1:13:12

spent all my years chasing

1:13:14

money , chasing businesses , saying yes to

1:13:16

all these opportunities which have pulled

1:13:19

me away from focus , and when

1:13:21

I've been sat down , you know

1:13:23

, divesting myself from certain businesses

1:13:25

, thinking what the fuck was I doing that business for in

1:13:27

the first place ? Anyway , you know it was . Maybe it

1:13:29

made a bit of money you know not even a lot

1:13:31

of money and probably even lost some money . It's

1:13:33

taking away cash , it's taking away time

1:13:35

, and when I'm a really happiest , when

1:13:38

I'm playing paddle tennis with my friends , when I'm making

1:13:40

breakfast for the baby . You know when I'm getting

1:13:43

up early to you know getting up early to wake her

1:13:45

up or putting her to bed and things . And , like you say

1:13:47

, you know when I'm getting up early to you know getting up early to wake her up or putting her

1:13:49

to bed and things . And , like you say , you know , yes , I want to do that in a nice house

1:13:51

. Yes , I want to know that

1:13:53

she's got her school

1:13:56

fees covered and that I can . You know I

1:13:58

can not go to work if I don't want

1:14:00

to . But do I want to miss out

1:14:02

on those opportunities to 2x

1:14:04

, 10x , 50x my

1:14:06

, my wealth ?

1:14:07

absolutely not at all yeah , exactly , I think

1:14:09

it's good to make money and we should . Um

1:14:12

, it's just , I think my focus will shift , you know , towards

1:14:14

I will still make money , but it's not going

1:14:16

to be like my life mission anymore , because I

1:14:18

made money already . So , um , yeah

1:14:21

, music , family and raising cars and

1:14:23

, um , maybe more things . Maybe , if

1:14:25

I find other things to do , I

1:14:28

also will have more time to do the charity work that

1:14:30

I want to focus more on . There's

1:14:34

another charity that I want to go and check out in Africa

1:14:36

A guy I met just a few weeks ago . He's

1:14:38

building hospitals for children in

1:14:41

Africa and

1:14:44

already built like 20 of them , and I want to go check

1:14:46

that out and see if I can help out and if

1:14:48

I donate there , maybe you can build another

1:14:51

dozen hospitals . Would be insane , right . So

1:14:53

these kind of things I will have more time to to

1:14:55

do . Um , and when I do

1:14:57

charity , I also I'm very um specific

1:15:01

. First of all , I it's only children

1:15:04

with like disabilities , that's like my thing

1:15:06

. Uh , that's what I care about and

1:15:08

also I always want to . I

1:15:11

, I do , do I do the

1:15:13

diligence on on exchanges , right , but I do the same

1:15:15

on charities . Like , I want to make sure that it's a great charity

1:15:18

and like I want to know the founder , like

1:15:20

who's behind everything and where does the money go

1:15:22

? And like because sure I can , I

1:15:24

can spend a million there , put a million there to charity

1:15:26

, but it's better to do it where

1:15:28

the roi is good and where the

1:15:30

um not all right for me , but for the , the

1:15:33

children , uh , and where the um

1:15:35

, the money actually is spent

1:15:38

for the intended purpose and not

1:15:40

someone is taking the money . So so that's

1:15:42

very important because in terms

1:15:44

of roi , for example , I could put one

1:15:46

million in this charity and

1:15:48

another one million in this charity , but here

1:15:50

that million leads

1:15:52

to , let's say , 20 hospitals

1:15:54

and here it's only 10 . Then of course , I'll

1:15:56

do it here because they have bigger impact . So every

1:15:59

dollar I put into this charity has

1:16:01

higher impact . So I do some

1:16:05

checks like that because that's

1:16:07

my , my business mindset coming into play . Like I want

1:16:09

to make sure that the money is well spent and

1:16:11

so that children get the maximum benefit of

1:16:13

every dollar I I put

1:16:15

in charity and um , and yeah , this

1:16:17

african one , I want to go check it out and then I

1:16:20

I will fly there , of course , and be

1:16:22

their own location and check it out and and

1:16:25

um , that's what I will

1:16:27

have more time for as well . This

1:16:29

I'll probably do next year already , but when

1:16:31

I do actually retire , I

1:16:34

mean , I could literally every month go and check

1:16:36

out charities and really put

1:16:39

a big effort into it . And I think the biggest

1:16:41

charity is actually not really money , it's like your

1:16:43

time , like if you actually devote your time

1:16:45

to really go out there and check what's the best

1:16:48

thing to do , what's the best charity , that's

1:16:50

the biggest , um , best

1:16:52

charity you can do , because giving your time is actually more

1:16:54

valuable . Like sure , I can put

1:16:56

like a billion there , like a billion there , like eventually

1:16:59

, like if you're a billionaire , you can easily um

1:17:01

, but like the

1:17:04

money has to be well spent and you need to make

1:17:06

sure that the children do actually

1:17:08

get taken care of and the only way to

1:17:10

really make sure is to be there yourself

1:17:12

and and know what you're you're putting

1:17:14

the money into . So , yeah , maybe

1:17:16

I'll even create like a foundation or something where I have like

1:17:19

a team that that really truly does that

1:17:21

for me , like I have in my the moon group

1:17:23

. So the moon foundation , something

1:17:25

like this . Yeah , it's very possible . I do something like that right now , I

1:17:27

just take my money and I I do it myself

1:17:29

, you know , but I might

1:17:32

do something like that well , listen , carl , it's

1:17:34

been an absolute pleasure having you here .

1:17:35

Buddy , I want to thank you for , uh

1:17:37

, I guess , a really open , honest

1:17:39

uh , you know , tactical , factual , uh

1:17:42

. You know all the uh , all the good words , conversation

1:17:44

and uh , hopefully we'll do , we'll

1:17:46

do a round three , maybe in another couple

1:17:48

of years or maybe we won't leave it that long . You'll

1:17:51

be retired by then , but whatever

1:17:53

you go on to do , I have no doubt it'll

1:17:55

be done with the same success , vigour

1:17:57

and smile on your face . I've come to know

1:17:59

you've done all the other stuff .

1:18:00

So thank you very much , mate , thank you

1:18:02

for having me and yeah , next podcast

1:18:05

maybe we focus more music , because hopefully

1:18:07

that's um what I'm doing

1:18:09

most of my time .

1:18:09

You bring your guitar , I'll bring my tambourine

1:18:11

, and it'll be . It'll be , it'll be a musical podcast

1:18:14

, yeah , nice yeah

1:18:16

, thank you so much , bro .

1:18:17

That was amazing podcast . Thanks , buddy .