0:00

Hello and welcome to

0:02

The Vampire Castle. The

0:05

only podcast where I,

0:07

Jamie Peck. And I, Leslie

0:09

Lee, the third. Talk

0:12

about actually existing vampires.

0:14

All right. Well, it's

0:17

been a minute. It

0:19

felt good to do that.

0:21

Yes, it's been a while,

0:23

but I mean... I mean, you

0:25

almost feel like you live

0:28

in a nightmare vampire world

0:30

already in a lot of

0:32

ways. We have all the

0:34

more need for an escape

0:36

into the vampire world when

0:38

the real world is so

0:40

unpleasant to think about. Yes.

0:43

Today we're going to talk

0:45

about a very controversial film

0:47

that came out recently, a

0:49

remake of one more remake in

0:52

the line of the line of

0:54

many. Yes. of the classic Dracula story

0:56

and this one is called

0:58

Nosferatu. Which I will get into it. I

1:01

don't know why they called

1:03

it Nosferatu because it feels

1:05

like they could have called

1:07

it Dracula. They could have

1:09

called it universal, I'm surprised

1:11

this is not the latest

1:13

universal pictures reboot with, you

1:16

know, Wolfman, because this is

1:18

a very much a Dracula

1:20

movie in, it's even closer

1:22

than some of the movies

1:24

that we've covered previously, the

1:26

other Dracula adaptations like Warner

1:28

Hotzog's, uh, Nosferat, too from

1:30

1979, or even like Bram Stoker's,

1:33

Dracula, much closer to the book.

1:35

But those two movies were a

1:37

lot more similar than I expected,

1:39

you know, going in. I thought

1:42

Nosferatu would be a very different

1:44

vision, but it felt very like

1:46

a traditional big-budget studio

1:48

version of Dracula. Well, I

1:50

think maybe in the name that we're

1:53

trying to connect it back to

1:55

the Weimar cinema Nosferatu. That exists,

1:57

right? I think I talked about

1:59

it. on an episode of

2:01

my podcast that I can't ever

2:04

remember what I've done during it.

2:06

But yeah I think there were

2:08

some nods to Ymar cinema throughout

2:10

the film that maybe we could

2:12

get into in a little bit

2:15

where they were trying to make it

2:17

look like that with the most

2:19

mostly the creepy fingers. the

2:21

creepy fingers yes what yes the I

2:23

love I love that was beautiful that

2:26

was a nice touch a nice nod

2:28

but also I was surprised that in

2:30

the first five minutes you see a

2:32

vampire gets staked in this like I

2:34

was not expecting that from the Eggers

2:36

version of Nasrati Dracula but hey you

2:38

know it was a much less art

2:40

house and much more I think it

2:42

made a lot of money at the

2:44

movie the years I hope it did

2:47

I felt it was a very you

2:49

know easy to easy and accessible film

2:51

where I think a lot of people

2:53

don't think Eggers is that accessible but

2:55

this is probably his most accessible one

2:58

most mainstream one I enjoyed it on

3:00

the whole but it was a very

3:02

different movie than I expected even from

3:04

the trailers like this just felt like

3:07

you know if it was a very

3:09

fun movie but it was not as

3:11

I don't know how I put like

3:13

highfaludin as I expected it to be.

3:16

I'm not as familiar with the

3:18

director. the

3:21

vibe the reputation that

3:23

Lily Rose Depp has

3:25

from having done that

3:27

terrible HBO show it's really

3:30

sexual but in a bad way

3:32

the I never watched I've never

3:34

watched oh yes the one with

3:37

the weekend on it yes I

3:39

did not watch That was it

3:41

did not sound that interesting. I saw

3:43

some clips on like Twitter and stuff

3:46

people were making fun of it. So

3:48

that's what else she was in. I

3:50

had no idea what else she was

3:53

in. Obviously Lily Rose is the daughter

3:55

of Johnny Depp. So I mean, I

3:57

think we got a couple of Nepo.

4:00

babies in this one? Oh, who else?

4:02

Yeah, Scarsguard. Bill's, I'm

4:04

not Sforatu, Bill Scarsguard.

4:06

Oh, that's who plays

4:08

The Vampire. He, okay, I did

4:10

not really, like, Count Orlock in

4:13

this one that much. I think

4:15

he was the weakest link. Okay,

4:17

we have to get into it,

4:19

because I mean, I don't know

4:21

if we've done enough setup, so,

4:23

no, I mean. It's Dracula folks. I

4:25

don't know how much we have to

4:27

explain this is Dracula again. That was

4:30

coming my vibe coming into this movie

4:32

initially. Then when I saw the trailers,

4:34

it seemed very creepy and cool. And

4:36

so I was very interested. in it

4:38

and then I didn't get the chance

4:40

to see it until yesterday but the

4:42

debate was all about like you brought

4:44

up Jamie whether Count Orlock was hot

4:47

or not and frankly whether Count

4:49

Orlock was fuckable or not which I

4:51

think is a little bit reductive but

4:53

we have to get in there so

4:56

Jamie what didn't you like about this

4:58

version of Orlock? I mean I think

5:00

Orlock is always kind of gross. He's

5:02

supposed to be. He's a nose for a

5:04

two, but he has a little bit of

5:07

charm in some of the other ones,

5:09

a little more depth. I think this

5:11

count Orlock was a little one note,

5:13

shall we say. It almost looked like

5:15

Jim Kerry with a bunch of prosthetics

5:17

on, and the voice that he did

5:20

was kind of just the same way

5:22

all the way through. It's just about

5:24

the accent and the heavy breathing and

5:26

the taking a really long time to

5:29

say stuff, and that's kind of the

5:31

whole deal. Yeah, he is a

5:33

very monotone performance for

5:35

Dracula, which is, you know,

5:38

is supposed to be, he's supposed

5:40

to be like a chameleon. He's

5:42

one way in the castle, another

5:45

way in the city, one way

5:47

in the bedroom, another way in

5:49

the streets, you know, but this

5:51

orlock is just like a

5:53

big lumbering, you know, monster,

5:55

but also he's a jerk.

5:57

He's like has no charm.

6:00

he has no riz as the

6:02

kids say which you know you

6:04

can have that with a Dracula

6:06

of Nasratu yes I'm sure but

6:08

it would have worked for this

6:10

movie it would have been more

6:12

interesting if there was anything appealing

6:15

about him in this movie because

6:17

this movie the one of the

6:19

innovations of this movie is that

6:21

it's actually the female protagonist often

6:23

called was it Mena Lucy sometimes

6:25

and then this one she's called

6:28

Ellen played by Lily Rose Depp

6:30

she's the one who calls Dracula

6:32

she's the one who says like

6:34

hey let's hook up like she

6:36

slides in his demps spiritually speaking

6:38

she summons him kind of like

6:41

a demon we found out later

6:43

on that he's like some old

6:45

evil magician. There's lots of magic

6:47

in this movie. He's like an

6:49

old evil magician who was gifted

6:51

slash cursed by the devil with

6:54

immortality and he actually been sleeping

6:56

until she called him from the

6:58

grave to make this kind of

7:00

packed. It's very fairy tale ask,

7:02

rumple still skinny. It felt like

7:04

at times like a Tim Burton

7:07

movie. So that's one thing that

7:09

they changed and it's kind of

7:11

an interesting thing to do change

7:13

it up. and has a little

7:15

bit of mystery to it because

7:17

you don't because you just see

7:20

the scene of her summoning him

7:22

but you don't really get the

7:24

full explanation of why she did

7:26

it all her issues well uh

7:28

but she like but the point

7:30

is like this movie is about

7:33

her desire and like Orlock Is

7:35

he desirable? I'm not sure. Some

7:37

people said yes. A lot of

7:39

people were very vociferous about this.

7:41

They even judged people. They said

7:43

if you're not hot hot for

7:45

discount or lock, you're not a

7:48

real monsterfucker. And I don't know

7:50

if that's fair, that's true, but

7:52

I just don't know. He seemed

7:54

all right to me, but it

7:56

wasn't the most intriguing performance of

7:58

Dracula. Like I said, he came

8:01

across more like just like an

8:03

old. wizard you know like someone

8:05

like a villain and kind of

8:07

lord of the rings the seductive

8:09

quality was kind of missing here

8:11

absent completely absent like he spends

8:14

more time seducing the beast Jonathan

8:16

Hart Nicholas Holtz in the first

8:18

act and he does seducing Lily

8:20

Rose as soon as he shows

8:22

up he's like you are faded

8:24

to me we are destined and

8:27

it's just like Where's the romance?

8:29

Where's the, you know, the subtlety?

8:31

Like this is a, she's a

8:33

sensual woman. That's the one thing

8:35

we know for sure about her.

8:37

And he's just like seems like

8:40

it's just a wham-bam, thank you

8:42

ma'am, sort of guy. He just

8:44

feels very entitled to her eroticism

8:46

in a way that's kind of

8:48

unappilling and unappreciative, even for Dracula.

8:50

Yeah, I mean, at least Thomas

8:53

gets to have dinner at his

8:55

table by him, you know. Like,

8:57

where's the whiting and dining? Where's

8:59

the romance? Their suck-out, sucking sex

9:01

scene was longer than the one

9:03

that Count Overlock and Ellen ended

9:06

up having. Which is kind of

9:08

strange because also, this is the

9:10

one, this is one of the

9:12

Dracula adaptations that makes the Jonathan,

9:14

I forget what he's calling this

9:16

one, but he's usually called Thomas,

9:19

right? Thomas, in this one, this

9:21

is the one where like he

9:23

has the most reason. to be

9:25

pissed about drago like bracko is

9:27

like trying to steal his girl

9:29

snatches his chain off his neck

9:32

at one point like you can't

9:34

let that happen to you in

9:36

the hood all right you can't

9:38

let someone take your chain and

9:40

walk around with it like a

9:42

certain point he almost has like

9:45

a ramble like you know rise

9:47

up and he says or lock

9:49

like he's gonna really like go

9:51

after him and he and the

9:53

reason we see the vampire execution

9:56

so early on is that so

9:58

he is the one who knows

10:00

how kill vampires. So he carries

10:02

that knowledge throughout the film and

10:04

he's like all ready to like

10:06

stake or lock stake or lock

10:09

stake or lock so and in

10:11

certain sense like he's the strongest

10:13

and weakest version of Jonathan Harker

10:15

I've seen like he's the one

10:17

that gets the most own but

10:19

he's the also the most proactive

10:22

later on. He does get owned

10:24

and he doesn't just take his

10:26

chain, he takes his lock it.

10:28

Yes. With the picture of Ellen,

10:30

he's like, I'll be keeping this

10:32

for my spank, bank. There's like

10:35

nothing he can do about it.

10:37

That early portion of the movie,

10:39

we've seen those scenes a hundred

10:41

times. I didn't mind it except

10:43

for the dialogue. Robert Eggers is

10:45

a hell of a director. you

10:48

know I don't like I think

10:50

his plots are generally very good

10:52

his dialogue in his previous films

10:54

was in um sort of archaic

10:56

language this is more modern language

10:58

and it just didn't feel very

11:01

good often the times like I

11:03

felt a lot of the scenes

11:05

were somewhat lacking in tension and

11:07

tone early on at least later

11:09

on I liked it a little

11:11

bit better but those early scenes

11:14

they just kind of dragged weren't

11:16

super scary and it didn't really

11:18

make you know it didn't really

11:20

make either the characters appealing or

11:22

the even the plot in the

11:25

storyline appealing especially since we know

11:27

the plot and the storyline is

11:29

what's going to happen yeah I

11:31

mean at this point if you're

11:33

going to make another version of

11:35

Dracula a movie that's been made

11:38

over and over and over again,

11:40

I think it really needs to

11:42

justify its existence. Like the bar

11:44

is high. And I don't know

11:46

if that bar was met, but

11:48

I still found it an enjoyable,

11:51

you know, dark and horny film.

11:53

Yeah, I liked a lot more

11:55

by the end that I did

11:57

early on. And I didn't dislike

11:59

it early on. It was just

12:01

kind of like, like, like, like

12:04

you said, like, why bother making

12:06

this? Couple already did it better

12:08

in recent memory, you know, but

12:10

as it gets towards the end

12:12

there's some interesting things and overall

12:14

it was an enjoyable experience I

12:17

wouldn't tell anyone not to watch

12:19

this movie but I wish it

12:21

was a little bit more ambitious

12:23

with its themes and his storyline

12:25

but on the whole you know

12:27

it wasn't bad yeah I okay

12:30

I was wondering if we were

12:32

gonna have to fight about this

12:34

but I feel like we have

12:36

the approximately the same day yeah

12:38

yeah it's it's all right it's

12:41

a vampire movie it looks pretty

12:43

it looks nice he's got a

12:45

good cast the performances though i've

12:47

heard a lot of praise about

12:49

them and acting in this movie

12:51

I don't see it. I actually

12:54

found it quite comical a lot

12:56

of times. I found some of

12:58

the stuff like very funny. Maybe

13:00

I don't think I think Eggers

13:02

generally has a sense of humor

13:04

in his films, but the way

13:07

people were talking about these performances,

13:09

I didn't take them as seriously

13:11

as other people did. The Arghasmo

13:13

seizures of Lily Rose Deb. Like

13:15

she spends the entire movie. Oh,

13:17

like it's so funny. It's so

13:20

funny. It's very funny. It's very

13:22

funny. It wasn't what expected from

13:24

the reviews that I read is

13:26

all I'll say. You know, I

13:28

didn't even read any reviews. I

13:30

wanted to go in completely unbiased

13:33

to this, but yeah, I'm inclined

13:35

to agree. I think. Anyone who

13:37

thinks she's going to win an

13:39

Oscar for this is, I mean

13:41

look, the Oscars aren't perfect either.

13:43

They are probably going to get

13:46

a bunch of awards to fucking

13:48

Amelia Perez, which is one of

13:50

the most comically bad movies I've

13:52

seen in recent memory. But like

13:54

I enjoyed this for what it

13:57

was. It's like a B movie

13:59

exploitation film with a lot of

14:01

creepy fingers. Yeah, really. I really

14:03

wish they had called it Dracula

14:05

because it has like a high

14:07

kind of body. account. It has

14:10

like a decent amount. Yeah, decent

14:12

amount of action. Yes, you know,

14:14

rather gratuitous. Let me put it

14:16

this way. People who call sex

14:18

scenes gratuitous probably would call this

14:20

sex scene gratuitous and unnecessary. So,

14:23

you know, it has and I

14:25

don't think you know, that's a

14:27

bad thing. I think that's a

14:29

good thing. I wish they had

14:31

kind of leaned into it a

14:33

little bit more. I actually felt

14:36

this way about Eggers' The Northmen

14:38

and this was more the marketing,

14:40

you know, like they marketed that

14:42

movie as like this somber kind

14:44

of like artsy you know bad

14:46

asset trip when you could have

14:49

marketed it like us like an

14:51

action movie like the North Man

14:53

like he was a superhero because

14:55

that's what it was like they

14:57

should have metal playing in the

14:59

commercials and stuff you know because

15:02

it was a fun rip-roaring movie

15:04

and I think this one has

15:06

like a few elements of that

15:08

he's not trying to make a

15:10

slow ponderous movie. He's trying to

15:13

make a fun movie. You see

15:15

a vampire get staked very early

15:17

on. You see the action. You

15:19

see some blood. I wish there

15:21

was a bit more. I wish

15:23

there were more people like I

15:26

wish it was a movie where

15:28

more people got turned into vampires.

15:30

That's one thing that's a little

15:32

bit different from this film than

15:34

the others. Like you don't see

15:36

anyone else really get turned into

15:39

a vampire. besides Orlock or like

15:41

is the only one who's really

15:43

he's turning the vampire all the

15:45

others you see the vampirism spread

15:47

as opposed to just the plague

15:49

and so I felt like that

15:52

was kind of like even though

15:54

it was a very magical world

15:56

it felt really magical like Lily

15:58

Rose death has magical powers you

16:00

learn that she's like a witch

16:02

or something like a chosen one

16:05

witch to kill to kill to

16:07

both summon and kill Dracula Okay,

16:09

that's what that's fine. We'll go

16:11

along with it, but But you

16:13

know if you're going to go

16:15

to that route then give me

16:18

some more vampires like I love

16:20

the ending that we talked about

16:22

of the 1971. Werner Herzog, Nasratu,

16:24

where the Jonathan Harker character is

16:26

actually actually a vampire and he

16:28

frames Van Hilsing for the murder

16:31

of Dracula. He gets Van Hilsing

16:33

sit to jail for killing Dracula

16:35

and he goes off as a

16:37

vampire lord of his own. That

16:39

was really a fun ending to

16:42

even kind of like a very

16:44

somber political kind of artsy movie.

16:46

I think this version of Dracula

16:48

could have had a little bit.

16:50

more of that a little bit

16:52

more of the action of the

16:55

copula version has too. I think

16:57

you know I think he was

16:59

trying to you know kind of

17:01

toll the line but like you

17:03

know go balls out Eggers if

17:05

you're going to make a fucking

17:08

schlocky kind of Dracula movie let's

17:10

get some schlock. Yeah well okay

17:12

to be fair it's really hard

17:14

to measure up to the copula

17:16

version of Dracula like you had

17:18

Gary Oldman is Dracula Keanu Reeves,

17:21

Keanu Reeves. It's an all-star fucking

17:23

cast, not to mention fucking Tom

17:25

Waits as Renfield. And they barely

17:27

did anything with the Renfield character

17:29

in this movie. This guy, you

17:31

know what? He's in it a

17:34

lot, because he's, they end up

17:36

making Renfield Harkers. Harker's boss. So

17:38

those fixes in from the beginning

17:40

of this movie when he as

17:42

soon as he I mean, it's

17:44

kind of a convoluted plot. Why

17:47

does Dracula have to go through

17:49

all this trouble when Lily because

17:51

Lily rolls depth? So it's the

17:53

plot is this Lily rolls depth

17:55

when she was a teenager Ellen.

17:58

Some was lonely. and she was

18:00

connected to the spirit realm and

18:02

she summoned out to something and

18:04

it ended up being Dracula. They

18:06

had some sort of spiritual sexual

18:08

communion and she promised her to

18:11

him, but in order to make

18:13

it permanent, she has to repromise

18:15

herself. And so for Dracula to

18:17

make that happen, he has to

18:19

do some convoluted real estate deal

18:21

where he has, you know, already

18:24

before the film has started, he's

18:26

like infected... Thomas' boss at the

18:28

real estate agency or whatever. And

18:30

he's already like a worshipper of

18:32

Dracula. He's like a cultist. And

18:34

we see him throughout the film

18:37

and he's like the Renfield character.

18:39

We see him in the Salus

18:41

Island, but he's like you said,

18:43

he's really just there to kind

18:45

of blurt out like plot points

18:47

and exposition when necessary mostly and

18:50

to be in the coffin when

18:52

drag, instead of Dracula. So somebody

18:54

can get... Staked and murdered at

18:56

least in the film. He kind

18:58

of like he's pops up, but

19:00

he doesn't really have I don't

19:03

know a character. He doesn't have

19:05

a character. He's just like a

19:07

plot device which and also like

19:09

he's cackling and giggling throughout this

19:11

movie like at one point he's

19:14

cackling and skipping and clicky his

19:16

heels like left like the leprecon

19:18

from the leprecon horror films and

19:20

I wrote this down at that

19:22

moment like Is this movie allowed

19:24

to win an Oscar if it

19:27

has characters clicking their heels and

19:29

cackling and but then I realize

19:31

if that's disqualified and so what

19:33

wicked this year would be and

19:35

of course with their odds but

19:37

yes I was I was trying

19:40

to think how many films have

19:42

characters cackling maniacally in them have

19:44

won Oscars I'm sure there's a

19:46

few but it just seemed like

19:48

a very silly moment but deliberately

19:50

so like it was trying like

19:53

it was something you would see

19:55

in a much sillier version of

19:57

Dracula as well. Like, I, we

19:59

watched Dracula dead and loving it.

20:01

And if they get times, that

20:03

film was more serious than some

20:06

of us, a few of the

20:08

scenes in this one. And that's

20:10

not a bad thing. I don't

20:12

think that's a bad thing about

20:14

this movie. It just... What wasn't

20:16

quite what I expected? Yeah, that

20:19

was a fun one. We did

20:21

we, I can't even remember my

20:23

own life anymore. Did we talk

20:25

about Dracula dead and loving? Yes,

20:27

we did. We talked about Dracula

20:30

dead and loving it. That's a

20:32

great one. I remember now. The

20:34

only reason I watched it to

20:36

begin with was because I was

20:38

in a real bad head space

20:40

after watching fucking fright night. And

20:43

I needed to be less afraid.

20:45

Oh. Because I was on some

20:47

psychedelics when I watched that movie.

20:49

I'm still, I'm afraid to rewatch

20:51

it because I'm afraid it's just

20:53

going to be like so dumb

20:56

and cheesy. I'm going to be

20:58

like really Jamie. You were scared

21:00

of that. You know, it's very

21:02

80s. It's very, very, very 80s.

21:04

That's what I'll say about it.

21:06

You know, good and bad. Check

21:09

out the archives if you want

21:11

to listen to us talk about

21:13

those two vampire films. Oh, please

21:15

do So what else is in

21:17

this movie? That's worth commenting on.

21:19

I mean it is horny If

21:22

nothing else and there is no

21:24

subtext in this movie He definitely

21:26

fucks both of them. It's very

21:28

clear Yeah, he's sucking and fucking.

21:30

This Dracula fucks. I mean, the

21:32

first thing we see is like

21:35

we see his dick, like first

21:37

thing when he's like completely naked

21:39

when Thomas confronts him after their

21:41

dinner. Oh yeah, that was gnarly.

21:43

But I have to push back

21:46

on this though. Where are Dracula's

21:48

brides? This Dracula has no hose.

21:50

That I don't when that happened

21:52

what this Dracula has nothing going

21:54

on He's just waiting for again

21:56

a teenager who promised herself to

21:59

him We haven't talked about the

22:01

age gap, which is always an

22:03

issue with vampire Media It's kind

22:05

of funny with this movie because

22:07

a lot of the commentary maybe

22:09

this is unfair a lot of

22:12

the commentary about the cast involved

22:14

Aaron Taylor Johnson kick-ass and he

22:16

has a much older wife and

22:18

people were making sort of references

22:20

to their real age gap in

22:22

the age gap in this movie.

22:25

Oh who's his wife? His wife

22:27

she's a producer. And she's a

22:29

producer. Look, I don't want to

22:31

get it to, I don't want

22:33

to judge, they're both, you know,

22:35

they're both old enough, I'm sure,

22:38

but, so I just. We have

22:40

to mention it because people were

22:42

talking about it. His wife is

22:44

a Sam Taylor Johnson, Samantha Taylor,

22:46

Johnson. So he's 34, she's 57,

22:48

they met a few. Yeah, Dracula,

22:51

Dracula approves, North Carolina approves, Jamie

22:53

approves. We're not judging, we're not

22:55

judging, just mentioned. Yeah, I mean,

22:57

he said his 30s. He's an

22:59

adult. by a lot he can

23:01

yeah he can date or bury

23:04

whoever he likes and that's nothing

23:06

that's nothing compared to the age

23:08

gap between count or lock who's

23:10

like a thousand year old vampire

23:12

and all of the people that

23:15

he sucks in this movie yeah

23:17

and you know like it's kind

23:19

of strange because he says he

23:21

is obsessed with Ellen but then

23:23

he sucks and he spends more

23:25

time sucking and fucking and fucking

23:28

her husband And then he sucks

23:30

and fucks her friend and like

23:32

all those dudes on all those

23:34

dudes on that boat that takes

23:36

him over sucks and fucks all

23:38

of them He is he is

23:41

not you know, he's not as

23:43

committed to this relationship as I

23:45

think Ellen thinks I think and

23:47

she gaslights her a couple of

23:49

times he lies to her which

23:51

Dracula does not always Often do

23:54

I don't think I I feel

23:56

like Dracula doesn't lie a lie

23:58

he doesn't have to but he

24:00

straight up lies to her and

24:02

says that John your husband signed

24:04

away your marriage for a bag

24:07

of gold. And it's not true.

24:09

He tricked Thomas into signing his

24:11

contract in a different language that

24:13

he thought was just like some,

24:15

you know, real estate something, you

24:17

know, or NDA, probably, he probably

24:20

thought it was an NDA, a

24:22

non-disclosure agreement for going to Dracula's

24:24

castle, right? And he signs it.

24:26

And it turns out he's signing

24:28

away his wife, which is... Oh,

24:31

should not be a legal contract?

24:33

Maybe at the time. And also,

24:35

the summoning itself, because Ellen was

24:37

a minor at the time. So

24:39

neither of these things should be

24:41

legally binding whatsoever. I don't know

24:44

where the entitlement that this orlock

24:46

has comes from, because he is

24:48

just a jerk, really. He's really

24:50

mean. He makes Thomas call him.

24:52

is Lord, you will call me

24:54

my Lord, my status and my

24:57

family name or whatever. He's a

24:59

very, he's probably, he talks like

25:01

he's a nipple baby as well,

25:03

like his father was, you know,

25:05

the great orlock or some shit

25:07

like that. Well he is an

25:10

aristocrat so he probably comes from

25:12

a long line of bejeweled perforts

25:14

who live in castles. Yeah I

25:16

like a I like a Dracula

25:18

who's like a warrior who you

25:20

know rose up you know pulled

25:23

himself up by his bootstraps you

25:25

know I think when the Gary

25:27

Omen character at least at least

25:29

do a crusade or something as

25:31

far as I know this orlog

25:33

this guy he's just just like

25:36

been hanging out being like a

25:38

pervert to you know teenage girls

25:40

like the whole time until he

25:42

found another one that reached out

25:44

to him well he doesn't like

25:47

you said he doesn't even have

25:49

hose in that castle no I

25:51

was waiting the whole time to

25:53

see what the brides of Dracula

25:55

would be like in this movie

25:57

and they're just not there Mmm,

26:00

ain't no holes in this house.

26:02

So that was kind of sad.

26:04

Yes, it's sad. I mean,

26:06

and I don't, and I

26:08

don't really feel sorry for

26:10

Orlock. In fact, he talks

26:12

about being lonely less than

26:14

Gary Oldben does, who has

26:16

Monica Belucci and two other

26:19

brides sitting right there. He's

26:21

like, oh. cross disease to

26:23

see you because of my

26:25

loneliness I only have Monica

26:27

Belucci and two other beautiful

26:29

Italian women but I come on he's

26:31

never satisfied never

26:33

satisfied oh I guess and

26:35

you're supposed to think that about

26:37

this Dracula I think there is

26:39

idea that he has this insatiable

26:41

lust I think that's how the

26:44

ship sequence is played out too

26:46

so I just wanted to state

26:48

the theme to be fair I

26:50

was just make make a joke

26:52

about it but yes you know

26:54

but there's not much else to

26:56

this or law you know like

26:58

this this he doesn't have a

27:00

lot going on he's just that

27:02

hunger which I guess work I

27:05

feel like that's always an aspect

27:07

of the Dracula character but it's

27:09

not like the only aspect and

27:11

this kind of only the only

27:14

thing he has going for him.

27:16

He's not seductive, not romantic really.

27:18

I guess he is kind of,

27:20

he's mean. and a bit deceptive

27:22

you know but that's kind of

27:24

it yeah he's playing mind games

27:27

with with both of them

27:29

trying to like interfere with

27:31

their marriage which you would

27:33

think a thousand-year-old vampire would

27:35

have better things to do yes better

27:37

around with some random young couple

27:40

of newlyweds but he's just he's

27:42

uh he's petty he's been waiting

27:44

for hundreds of years to

27:46

find the just the right young couple

27:49

to fuck with like this I guess

27:51

Yeah, and as I said his plot

27:53

is just so complicated. I mean,

27:55

I'm sure if we analyze the

27:58

Dracula story there are few things

28:00

that don't quite hold up but this

28:02

one does did make me pause a

28:04

few times it's like why is Orlock

28:06

doing all of this when at the

28:08

end of the day he just shows

28:10

up in Allen's house and it's like

28:12

I you're gonna let you're gonna be

28:14

my wife or I'm gonna kill all

28:16

your friends until that happens you know

28:18

that's a very short that could have

28:21

been a very short movie actually it

28:23

wasn't that much else you know that

28:25

could have happened And they all

28:28

lived happily ever after. Oh,

28:30

sadly, sadly, not. So in

28:33

similar versions of Nelson, other

28:35

versions of Nelson were out

28:37

too, the ending, instead of

28:40

being, you know, the, all

28:42

the big tough men killing

28:45

the Dracula. It's actually

28:47

the woman, the Ellen in

28:49

this film, and the character

28:51

played by Isabella and Johnny

28:53

in the, or her song,

28:55

Nasseratu. And I think we

28:57

talked on the show, but how

28:59

much I loved her performance. And

29:02

I loved that character. And I

29:04

loved how she was the one

29:06

who figured it out and

29:08

saved everyone and sacrificed herself

29:11

to save everyone, is able

29:13

to trick... Lord Dracula in

29:15

and trick him. into staying

29:17

the night with with her and keeping

29:20

him until sunrise and the same thing

29:22

happens in this movie essentially and but

29:24

you have the twist of the Ellen

29:26

character is actually the one who summoned

29:28

Dracula in the first place so it's

29:31

kind of all their fault anyways kind

29:33

of her responsibility to take care of

29:35

this but you do you do get

29:37

a good scene where she like you

29:40

know takes charge and says all right

29:42

I'm gonna take care of this Dracula

29:44

problem but also it's kind of cut

29:46

by the fact that she really

29:48

wants to fuck Orlock as well.

29:50

It's like she doesn't just want

29:52

to save everyone from the plague

29:54

that Dracula Brent brought orlock brought

29:56

in a very funny scene because

29:58

when the plague there. I swear

30:01

to God in this movie. It

30:03

was very funny, but very schlocky.

30:05

But the ship Dark Dracula comes

30:07

in where he's killed, everybody on

30:09

it is it crashes on the

30:11

dock and all these rats come

30:14

pouring out and someone off screen

30:16

says in the ADR line, it's

30:18

a plague ship. Like this happens

30:20

every day. It's like, oh, of

30:22

course, it's a plague ship. This

30:24

ship has landed and there's hundreds.

30:27

of thousands of rats just spill

30:29

out of it. And they know

30:31

exactly what it is, what they

30:33

got. Oh, obviously, this happened, this

30:35

happened a couple of seasons ago,

30:37

but I digress. But the, uh,

30:40

the plague ship, uh, comes and

30:42

starts killing everybody. And she, Ellen,

30:44

is the only one who can

30:46

stop this plague because the doctors

30:48

are useless. They're just like, they're

30:50

just like, we can't put more

30:53

people in the hospital. That's the

30:55

only kind of medical. intervention that

30:57

there is. It may seem a

30:59

little bit familiar, like kind of

31:01

like real life, not really the

31:03

government agencies aren't really doing anything

31:06

to mitigate the plague, they're not

31:08

really telling the people what's going

31:10

on. It's really just the Van

31:12

Helsing character who knows who knows

31:14

anything about what's going on. And

31:16

he's like a scientist and everybody's

31:18

just ignoring him. And like you're

31:21

just crazy. You're you don't know

31:23

what you're talking about. Plague is

31:25

just hysteria. There's lots of gas

31:27

lighting of women in this movie

31:29

and their illnesses and their... chronic

31:31

illnesses. Ellen is constantly told that

31:34

it's nothing wrong. That it's just,

31:36

you know, her weak disposition as

31:38

a woman. You know, she's she's

31:40

gas lit medical gas line, which

31:42

happens, you know, probably more than

31:44

ever. I think with things like,

31:47

you know, long COVID, like we

31:49

have a real epidemic of this.

31:51

This actually felt like it could

31:53

have been seen as a parable

31:55

for chronic. illness in me long

31:57

COVID because Ellen is Ellen is

32:00

sick the for her whole life

32:02

with this and nobody believes her

32:04

nobody she's like saying hey I

32:06

am communing with the spirit realm

32:08

nobody believes her they think she's

32:10

just crazy yeah or I don't

32:13

know if it is necessarily a

32:15

sickness like the way that I

32:17

read it yeah it wasn't a

32:19

sickness is like she has like

32:21

a superpower but like metaphorically you

32:23

could look at that like like

32:26

people who are divergent in some

32:28

way people who are differently abled

32:30

being treated like they are less

32:32

than when in fact they are

32:34

just different and in this it's

32:36

very clear that she has this

32:39

gift the second sight this ability

32:41

to kind of commune with the

32:43

spirit world and dance with the

32:45

darkness that is not respected by

32:47

you know patriarchal society but the

32:49

Van Helsing character very much recognizes

32:52

it at one point he says

32:54

you know in a different time

32:56

you would have been a high

32:58

priestess and I really liked that.

33:00

Yes, it was nice and like

33:02

I think it's the Aaron Taylor

33:05

Johnson. He's the one who like

33:07

just never he's who's is the

33:09

like the manly, you know, voice

33:11

like I don't believe in this

33:13

womanly nonsense until like Orlock just

33:15

kills his wife and his children

33:18

while he's like sleeping. He's like

33:20

in bed asleep. Yeah, like that

33:22

is so dark. I don't know.

33:24

I don't remember. Everybody dying in

33:26

the other Dracula movies. I don't

33:28

remember Dracula killing, like Ellen's friend

33:30

and her friend's husband and her

33:33

friend's kids as well. He usually

33:35

kills the friend. He usually turns

33:37

her into a vampire and she

33:39

usually doesn't have kids. They're both,

33:41

you know, they usually don't have

33:43

kids at the time either. I

33:46

think in actually in France is

33:48

for copalist Dracula it's the friend

33:50

who gives who eats a baby.

33:52

You see a baby in a

33:54

baby in that scene. You see

33:56

Lucy in a baby, actually, a

33:59

child in that film, which is

34:01

pretty shocking. I thought it was

34:03

fine here, but it's like, you

34:05

only get the one, like I

34:07

said, you only get the one

34:09

vampire or luck has to do

34:12

all his dirty work himself. You

34:14

know, it seemed, it seemed kind

34:16

of base for him to personally

34:18

go around, like eating, you know,

34:20

you know, the babies, just for

34:22

shock value. like he was doing

34:25

it to be petty like for

34:27

no other reason or grand plan

34:29

it did seem kind of like

34:31

a week moment I guess you

34:33

have to have it in the

34:35

film this movie needed like a

34:38

really good horrific scene the shocking

34:40

violence but I know I'm not

34:42

sure I think you could have

34:44

done something a little bit better.

34:46

I was shocked when he ate

34:48

the kids I was like damn

34:51

They really went there. And you

34:53

know, I don't think he's just

34:55

doing it to be a jerk

34:57

because he is a vampire and

34:59

he does need blood in order

35:01

to survive. That's kind of his

35:04

whole deal. Oh, but he doesn't

35:06

have to, he doesn't have to

35:08

suck off. he doesn't have to

35:10

eat those people he chose them

35:12

to get at Ellen which is

35:14

by the way she has lived

35:17

in these people's house for like

35:19

months we learn you know constantly

35:21

you know having her orgasm seizures

35:23

and like there's a real conflict

35:25

because at a certain point the

35:27

Aaron Taylor Johnson guy is just

35:30

like I had enough of this

35:32

shit just get out of my

35:34

house just get out just go

35:36

and then the next night his

35:38

all his family is dead and

35:40

it drives him mad essentially i

35:42

thought it was strange that they

35:45

had the funeral the next day

35:47

like the next morning like eight

35:49

hours later they had the like

35:51

baby caskets ready they had all

35:53

the funeral guilt that seemed fast

35:55

to me. I don't know how

35:58

quickly they did funerals in the

36:00

1800s. That just seemed very quick,

36:02

especially since there was an active

36:04

plague going on. That just seems

36:06

kind of a strange kind of

36:08

speed to that. The funeral home

36:11

is probably pretty backed up. Yeah,

36:13

you would imagine. You would imagine.

36:15

I mean that is how Jews

36:17

do it but I don't see

36:19

any evidence that these people are

36:21

Jewish. No, I don't think so.

36:24

I don't think so. We do

36:26

mention this takes place in Germany

36:28

but everybody speaks English obviously. With

36:30

an English accent. Yes, that's how

36:32

you know it's the past. Except

36:34

for William Defoe who I think

36:37

does have a bit of a

36:39

German Austrian accent maybe to show

36:41

that he's like an old kook

36:43

somehow. I don't know. Yeah. I

36:45

like I like him in this

36:47

movie. Oh yeah, he's great. Spots,

36:50

but yeah, I was going to

36:52

comment on like, where is this

36:54

supposed to take place? Strasbourg? Like

36:56

why? I mean, I guess this

36:58

is sort of a common trope

37:00

in movies where if somewhere is

37:03

in Europe and it's said in

37:05

the past, they are British. Yes.

37:07

You don't question that. It's fine.

37:09

I'm just thinking about why is

37:11

this movie set in Germany? I'm

37:13

trying to think. They're trying to

37:16

create some, again, I think they're

37:18

doing a few like shallow knots

37:20

to the Weimar film tradition. I

37:22

think that's all there is to

37:24

it. Yes. You can see the

37:26

creepy fingers just extending their way

37:29

over some mysterious German city and

37:31

you're like, wow, that's deep. I'm

37:33

still trying to think. No, no,

37:35

all the characters are British in

37:37

this movie. Everybody acts British. Even

37:39

when they go out on the

37:42

streets, I didn't even think about

37:44

that, because I didn't think the

37:46

scene in the town, in the

37:48

city was very good. I thought

37:50

when you got to the village,

37:52

that's more Eggers' bag. I felt

37:54

like the scene in the city

37:57

just didn't feel like... believable to

37:59

me? Like I've seen better street

38:01

scenes in like Doubton Abbey or

38:03

whatever BBC's show, but it felt

38:05

very British. I just kept thinking

38:07

this was set in Britain at

38:10

the time. Sound off in the

38:12

comments if you have theories. I

38:14

mean obviously it's called Nosfera too,

38:16

but you could have called it

38:18

Dracula. What else happens in this

38:20

movie? He bites her in the

38:23

boob in that final scene when

38:25

he's drinking her blood? I thought

38:27

that was pretty gnarly. Yeah, but

38:29

he had, he bites Nicholas Holt

38:31

in the boob as well too.

38:33

He bites Thomas in the boob

38:36

when he's sucking them off as

38:38

well. This kind of presents Dracula

38:40

as like one. creature as opposed

38:42

to like part of a chain

38:44

of vampires. You don't get the

38:46

sense that you get the sense

38:49

that there's other there's demons and

38:51

there's other magical stuff, but not

38:53

necessarily other vampires and so his

38:55

vampire style is very unique. Like

38:57

he's like a rotting corpse, but

38:59

also jacked. He has seemingly has

39:02

four things to at the top,

39:04

two at the bottom. And when

39:06

he bites you, he like bites

39:08

you and then sucks you like,

39:10

I don't know what kind of

39:12

animal bites like a... A chupikabra.

39:15

What kind of animal like that

39:17

made me like a... I don't

39:19

know. It's just like... The bite

39:21

wound is just a little bit

39:23

different and the way he sucks.

39:25

It's just like a... kiss on

39:28

the neck with a with some

39:30

sharp fangs now is like sucking

39:32

sucking like it it's kind of

39:34

creepy some people find it hot

39:36

I guess but it's an interesting

39:38

take on you know the Dracula

39:41

mittles but I'm not sure if

39:43

it's fair to even call this

39:45

guy a vampire in the sense

39:47

that I don't know if there's

39:49

such a thing in this world

39:51

as vampires there's kind of just

39:54

Dracula maybe he's the vampire he's

39:56

not a vampire Yes. Because as

39:58

far as we know, he's the

40:00

only one. He's the only one.

40:02

All the people he bites, they

40:04

like lose their mind and they

40:07

start. Like even the Renfield character,

40:09

he does bite somebody's neck and

40:11

drink their blood, but you don't

40:13

get the sense that's because he's

40:15

a vampire. Like you get the

40:17

sense that he's trying to be

40:19

like orlock, and it's just a

40:22

bad imitation. It's more like Nicholas

40:24

Cage in that other movie we

40:26

talked about situation. Vampire's Kiss. Vampire's

40:28

Kiss, yes. See, I remember things.

40:30

He's just like, I'm a vampire.

40:32

He's just going around fighting people

40:35

even though he's not. He's just

40:37

crazy. Oh, speaking of we did

40:39

not, it's so funny. We didn't

40:41

talk about the movie called Renfield.

40:43

Starring Nicholas Holt and Nicholas Cage

40:45

as Dracula. Nicholas Holt is Renfield,

40:48

Nicholas Cage as Dracula. Oh, fuck.

40:50

I would do one on that

40:52

if that's still, if the statute

40:54

of limitations hasn't run out. No,

40:56

I don't think there is one

40:58

now. Yeah, I mean, we just

41:01

kind of talk about whatever we

41:03

like on this little side project

41:05

here. It's great. Yes, and Dracula,

41:07

he does whatever he likes. until

41:09

the end where Ellen does trap

41:11

him and I found this scene

41:14

very good and very effective you

41:16

were talking about the bite and

41:18

it was it was pretty hot

41:20

you finally gets and you finally

41:22

get some new actual you get

41:24

some new boops finally in this

41:27

drag some titties Finally at the

41:29

very very end they bring it

41:31

all together the boobs and the

41:33

ending all at the same time

41:35

Which I guess that's one way

41:37

to do it. He loses track

41:40

of time really badly Which I

41:42

guess is a problem for Dracula

41:44

often he often This is how

41:46

you defeat him most of the

41:48

time you like just convincing to

41:50

lose track of time and she

41:53

and she does she keeps him

41:55

and she like he like tried

41:57

he's like backs away from her

41:59

while he's sucking her off and

42:01

then she's like no more and

42:03

she's loving this she's having the

42:06

time of her life again this

42:08

suck off but she's also like

42:10

tricking him into dying as well

42:12

so I wasn't sure about what

42:14

I was supposed to take from

42:16

that scene because it's like if

42:19

you wanna get sucked off by

42:21

Count Orlock every night. You could

42:23

make that happen if you want

42:25

it. You don't have to kill

42:27

him right now, but she is

42:29

killing him. So like heroic, but

42:31

she was also getting off at

42:34

the same time as a heroic

42:36

sacrifice. But she was all, it

42:38

was like if, I don't know,

42:40

at the climax of Mission Impossible,

42:42

you know, Tom Cruise is also

42:44

rubbing one out while he's like

42:47

diffusing the bomb. You know, it

42:49

was kind of strange. Well she

42:51

does die though. Yeah she dies

42:53

too as well. Like it was

42:55

a it was a noble sacrifice

42:57

but it was also like and

43:00

a lot of people read the

43:02

movie as like this the relationship

43:04

between them as like a positive

43:06

thing like she's finally like embracing

43:08

you know her sexual desire. Some

43:10

people had that take I wasn't

43:13

quite sure about that because as

43:15

you said they both die as

43:17

soon as they you know have

43:19

sex. You know you could take

43:21

some very conservative view of that

43:23

ending. Yeah, I mean I we've

43:26

all been there, right? We've all

43:28

been willing to die for some

43:30

mid dick But she really puts

43:32

her money where her mouth is

43:34

at the is it mid? Is

43:36

it mid? Is it mid? She

43:39

says it looks good. We've all

43:41

been willing to die for some

43:43

good dick All right? I guess

43:45

mid is more referring to the

43:47

person that it's attached to which

43:49

in this case as well is

43:52

like maybe not the best guy

43:54

Yes, yes at one point she

43:56

does say to Thomas that you

43:58

could never say to spy me

44:00

the way how Orlock did. But

44:02

it seems more of a taunt

44:05

than actual... you know, her actual

44:07

believing that it seems more like

44:09

she's just trying to make him

44:11

jealous. I mean, I don't really

44:13

know what to make of that

44:15

scene. Like it seems like she's

44:18

possessed maybe in parts of it.

44:20

Yes, she seems possessed, she switches

44:22

back and forth. It's kind of,

44:24

I don't know, you could read

44:26

this in a lot of different

44:28

ways. I'll let you take the

44:31

floor as a man. I don't

44:33

want to be, I don't want

44:35

to get into, I don't want

44:37

to try to untangle what is

44:39

this saying. I'm just agree with

44:41

whatever you think it's saying. I

44:43

mean, she's very back and forth

44:46

in that scene, right? In parts

44:48

of it, she's like, let him

44:50

see our love. I won't let

44:52

him get between us. And then

44:54

in other parts, she's like, well,

44:56

you sold me for a bag

44:59

of gold and you don't satisfy

45:01

me and you ain't shit. Yeah.

45:03

And it ends in this weird,

45:05

like, passionate sex scene where he

45:07

seems like he's, you know, getting

45:09

her back, maybe like trying to

45:12

fuck the demon out of her.

45:14

Yes. She gets off on all

45:16

of it for sure. She likes

45:18

it, she likes it, she's into

45:20

it. But this seems strange because

45:22

it's like up until this point

45:25

we're supposed to be thinking, oh

45:27

no, Ellen, she's the one who's

45:29

right, she knows what's going on,

45:31

and then she just kind of

45:33

has this weird moment where she's

45:35

back and forth and saying all

45:38

these things, and she's believing Orlox

45:40

lies, seemingly, I don't know. It

45:42

just seemed, it was a strange

45:44

scene to me to me. not

45:46

not a bad scene but just

45:48

in the larger context of what

45:51

was going on it seemed kind

45:53

of at odds with some of

45:55

the things it was saying before

45:57

and after in the film yeah

45:59

I don't know she comes off

46:01

a little a little BPD in

46:04

that scene yes I did once

46:06

I'm allowed to say that yeah

46:08

we're supposed to not we're not

46:10

we're supposed to not think that

46:12

she's air quotes crazy but in

46:14

that scene she kind of just

46:17

comes across as kind of like

46:19

the stereotypical crazy losing it woman

46:21

in that scene. But it could

46:23

just be the vampire possessing. Yes

46:25

it could just be the vampire

46:27

possessing there's not we don't we're

46:30

not quite sure. Yeah I mean

46:32

it's probably a metaphor for something

46:34

but I don't know. They say

46:36

that she's always been troubled. They're

46:38

never quite clear on that. Has

46:40

she acted like that before? It

46:43

seems like they're mad. At some

46:45

point she kind of tells Thomas

46:47

like, oh no, I was a

46:49

mess before I met you, you

46:51

got me, you know, together, you

46:53

fixed me. She says that to

46:55

him a couple of times actually,

46:58

like what was she actually like

47:00

before? We get some sense, but

47:02

not a ton of... since I

47:04

feel like I don't know it's

47:06

kind of a long movie you

47:08

know to give you know all

47:11

these characters you know this in-depth

47:13

more backstory you know it's hard

47:15

to accomplish when it's also trying

47:17

to have like be an vampire

47:19

kind of actionee, vampire movie with

47:21

a little bit of action in

47:24

it and a plague movie and

47:26

all this sort of stuff. But

47:28

I do feel at least early

47:30

on I wanted to know a

47:32

lot more about Ellen and spend

47:34

more time and knowing Ellen instead

47:37

of just having people talk about

47:39

her. I kind of wanted to

47:41

know more what she was about

47:43

like the film Eggers is the

47:45

witch. that Ellen character feels similar

47:47

to the protagonist in that but

47:50

we learn we spend a lot

47:52

of time learning the minutiae of

47:54

that character how she interacts with

47:56

her family and her relationships we

47:58

I don't know if we get

48:00

as strong a sense from Ellen

48:03

at least early on in the

48:05

film I think by the end

48:07

I was I was fully on

48:09

board with Ellen and her heroic

48:11

slash erotic journey towards the end.

48:13

Yeah I kind of read it

48:16

as. like an interplay between the

48:18

darkness and the light like she's

48:20

always been haunted by this gift

48:22

slash curse that puts her in

48:24

touch with the spirit slash demon

48:26

world yeah everything in the film

48:29

is a good slash bad which

48:31

I guess is a is a

48:33

running thing, but sometimes it goes

48:35

hard in one direction and then

48:37

hard in the other direction. It's

48:39

hard. If sometimes it feels like

48:42

it's trying to be non-judgmental and

48:44

then sometimes it feels very judgmentalism.

48:46

Yeah, well, it can't decide what

48:48

it wants to be, you know?

48:50

Is it a modern, woke feminist

48:52

tale? Or is it a B,

48:55

a horny B movie exploitation film

48:57

starring Lily Rose Depp, who's primarily

48:59

known for another really terrible sexual,

49:01

not very good, not very tastefully

49:03

done show? So, I don't know.

49:05

I think, um, it's kind of

49:07

sweet that falling in love. like

49:10

saved her for a little while

49:12

kind of distracted her or drew

49:14

her out of this darkness that

49:16

she was always always always battling

49:18

with but eventually it wasn't enough

49:20

she had to face it head-on

49:23

well here's the thing so when

49:25

I before I watched the movie

49:27

I thought the thing would be

49:29

that it literally would be that

49:31

she was not satisfied with Thomas

49:33

that her her her life and

49:36

but when you watch the movie

49:38

it's like no she's like seems

49:40

to be pretty good late you

49:42

know when it comes out to

49:44

it he's really hot yeah he's

49:46

hot and he's like and like

49:49

and yeah and more the the

49:51

problem is that she had already

49:53

made this promise to Dracula back

49:55

in the day her ex is

49:57

the problem coming back into her

49:59

life is kind of the problem

50:02

not you know her having a

50:04

happy you know quote-unquote normy life

50:06

with an upwardly mobile husband. None

50:08

of that is presented as a

50:10

problem. So when Dracula comes in,

50:12

it's I expected to be more

50:15

like Dracula is fulfilling this hidden

50:17

desire, but it's like his desire

50:19

ultimately is what brings him back

50:21

less than her desire, bringing him

50:23

back. Ultimately she kind of, she

50:25

gets into it, but she's like

50:28

afraid. She tells Thomas not to

50:30

go, don't go, don't do. don't

50:32

do this so like like I

50:34

said like but there's other parts

50:36

of the movie where it seems

50:38

like she's very into it she

50:41

wants this and it is hard

50:43

to know what this film is

50:45

trying to say what points it

50:47

makes because as I say it

50:49

goes hard in one direction the

50:51

other it seems like her life

50:54

would have been perfectly fine if

50:56

Orlock never came back you know

50:58

it didn't seem like it was

51:00

in it gave her anything which

51:02

I did not think would be

51:04

the message of the movie ultimately

51:07

I thought the message of the

51:09

movie would be this is something

51:11

she needed to express herself to

51:13

live deliver herself to be her

51:15

complete self but as you said

51:17

like she says multiple times like

51:20

you helped me you fixed me

51:22

I'm I was happy then and

51:24

now this thing from this past

51:26

is haunted me so it is

51:28

is just about dealing with past

51:30

guilt not being able to escape

51:32

it that's kind of how like

51:35

because at the end she dies

51:37

and it not at the end

51:39

the thing she did in the

51:41

past like killed all her friends

51:43

killed like half the city and

51:45

she dies too as well but

51:48

they also towards the end of

51:50

the movie the Van Halston character

51:52

says you are destined to defeat

51:54

the Dracula but they also say

51:56

drack or lock wouldn't have come

51:58

back if it wasn't for her.

52:01

So it's the movie kind of

52:03

goes into all these different directions.

52:05

It's not quite clear what's trying

52:07

to say. I'm not saying it's

52:09

a bad movie, but when you

52:11

start trying to analyze, it's kind

52:14

of hard to know where to

52:16

pick it up at. I guess

52:18

the whole thing would. not have

52:20

happened despite her having called him

52:22

psychically if her husband had just

52:24

listened to her yes yes that's

52:27

a thing to the fucking castle

52:29

to do the fucking deal with

52:31

the Dracula because she knows this

52:33

guy groomed her he's bad news

52:35

and she's like listen to women

52:37

Gosh, listen to your wife and

52:40

she's like still fucked up from

52:42

it, but she can keep these

52:44

evil impulses at bay if he

52:46

would have just listened to her

52:48

and he didn't. So there you

52:50

go. No, Sporato has already like,

52:53

like, sucked off his boss. That's

52:55

how into this whole little plot

52:57

Orlock is. So Thomas, he was

52:59

doomed kind of from the start,

53:01

you know. He does get to

53:03

live though you don't think he's

53:06

gonna make it a couple of

53:08

times you think he's dead uh

53:10

once or twice but he lives

53:12

through the end he kind but

53:14

he doesn't have the love of

53:16

his life in fact the last

53:19

image he sees of the love

53:21

of his life is her getting

53:23

railed by a desiccated corpse and

53:25

I don't know how how you

53:27

process that's definitely gonna take him

53:29

a while to recover but you

53:32

know assuming he like he is

53:34

one of the only survivors in

53:36

this town I don't know if

53:38

he has any family but they're

53:40

probably dead now for sure so

53:42

yeah maybe he'll inherit their wealth

53:44

be able to pick up the

53:47

pieces and eventually I do think

53:49

he'll move on Like he's got

53:51

a lot of life left to

53:53

live. He's probably got some money.

53:55

He is a broken shell of

53:57

a man and probably wear a

54:00

locket with her picture in it

54:02

for the rest of his life,

54:04

but I think All that said

54:06

he will still be like a

54:08

pretty eligible bachelor And well he's

54:10

out of a job. He's a

54:13

wife Uh, like I, I, I,

54:15

uh, most of the town is

54:17

dead. I don't know. I don't

54:19

know. I'm worried about Thomas. I'm

54:21

worried about Thomas. He's traumatized multiple

54:23

times over. I don't think he's

54:26

gonna trust people again. I think

54:28

he's gonna go off and live.

54:30

I think he might go back

54:32

to the Roma village and just

54:34

live there. I think that would

54:36

be the thing to do. go

54:39

live with the nuns the nuns

54:41

who tried to help him oh

54:43

yeah there are the nuns yeah

54:45

yeah yes like a weird little

54:47

interlude that always happens yeah he

54:49

goes he has a little adventure

54:52

he has his own little Odyssey

54:54

going on B plot going through

54:56

the movie maybe he'll be have

54:58

like a polycule with the nuns

55:00

maybe I guess that isn't what

55:02

nuns do but uh No look

55:05

he's he's handsome he's probably got

55:07

some funds because I think his

55:09

whole family probably died of the

55:11

plague and or vampires he'll I

55:13

think he's gonna be all right

55:15

he might be he might have

55:18

a lot of PTSD from this

55:20

but yes you know we all

55:22

have our crosses to bear so

55:24

to speak so speak yes and

55:26

maybe if there if vampires ever

55:28

come back He'll know what to

55:31

do with them. He'll know how

55:33

to handle that. He has skills.

55:35

He knows how maybe he'll market

55:37

himself, vampire consultant. I think you

55:39

would have a need for that

55:41

in the 1800s Europe. Possibly. We

55:44

don't know that there are other

55:46

vampires, but he can probably convince

55:48

people that there are other vampires

55:50

out there. Like, don't wait. There's

55:52

that count in that castle, maybe

55:54

a vampire. Here's how to protect

55:56

yourself. He could sell his services

55:59

around. Yeah, you could team up

56:01

with Van Helsing and take advantage

56:03

of the early form of capitalism

56:05

that exists in this world. Start

56:07

a little, a little, a grifty

56:09

consultancy firm and you know, they're...

56:12

There might be a need for

56:14

it. Like it might not just

56:16

be grifting, like vampires do exist

56:18

in this fictional universe. He is

56:20

doing Where Wolves next. Okay. Well,

56:22

that's not the topic of this

56:25

podcast, but maybe I'll watch it

56:27

anyway. Look, like, I'll be real.

56:29

Where Wolves, not half as interesting

56:31

as vampires. I'm not, like, there's

56:33

not that much going on. Honestly

56:35

with the werewolf, I'm sorry, it's

56:38

never done anything for me. Some

56:40

of them, some of them flicks

56:42

are good, but no, nothing like

56:44

a vampire. Nothing like a vampire.

56:46

It felt at times, very Harry

56:48

Potter-ish, almost at times, strange for

56:51

Edgar's film, lots of ripped bodices,

56:53

literally two ripped bodices in this

56:55

movie, which, you know, classic, I

56:57

mean, it could have been boobs

56:59

galore, could have been sex galore,

57:01

too. Like in fact, I think...

57:04

Is it the 79-1 where because

57:06

the plague is happening? Yeah, people

57:08

start partying and having orgies in

57:10

the film. You could have done

57:12

that in that one. Obviously, you

57:14

don't want to redo everything, but

57:17

it's 2025. If we're going to

57:19

have a full-on fuckfests, Dracula version

57:21

of Dracula, when else are we

57:23

going to do it? Yeah, the

57:25

film felt sexual, but maybe not

57:27

very sensual. which is par for

57:30

the course these days. Yes, unfortunately,

57:32

as the article says, everybody's perfect

57:34

but no one's horny, but people

57:36

are horny in this movie, but

57:38

there have been hornier vampire movies.

57:40

I think we've talked about a

57:43

few. So not to downplay it,

57:45

not to downplay the horniness, but

57:47

it could have been hornier. Careful

57:49

what you wish for though, because

57:51

I'm sure they would have done

57:53

it in a horrifying way. Yeah,

57:56

yeah, because even though, I mean...

57:58

Some people are into it. Some

58:00

people think Orlock is very very

58:02

very hot But I do imagine

58:04

those vampire brides would not be

58:06

Monica Belucci level if they were

58:08

in there. Another way to see

58:11

this film is you the dangers

58:13

of having a golf girlfriend because

58:15

she has a past there is

58:17

a scene in this film where

58:19

Nicholas is he's trying to tell

58:21

her is like you have you

58:24

don't understand Count Orlock is after

58:26

you and then she's like well

58:28

actually um he's my ex He's

58:30

like, wait a minute, I've gone

58:32

through all this, I've been sucked,

58:34

I've been fucked, I've been tossed

58:37

off a cliff, I've come back

58:39

on this journey to you and

58:41

you're telling me that you know

58:43

this dude? Like, and this is

58:45

kind of all you're doing? This

58:47

is kind of all your fault?

58:50

He's kind of pissed off. It's

58:52

kind of a funny, it's kind

58:54

of a funny, he's like, wait,

58:56

what the fuck? Like, you did

58:58

this to me? Like, why? So

59:00

yes, dangers of having, like, you

59:03

want the golf girlfriend, but can

59:05

you handle the past trauma? Yeah,

59:07

no, everybody wants a Goth girlfriend.

59:09

Everyone thinks they want a Goth

59:11

girlfriend, but not everybody can handle

59:13

us. You know, we have a

59:16

lot of baggage, we have a

59:18

lot of needs, and some of

59:20

us are psychically connected to a

59:22

vampire. So, you know, but be

59:24

careful. So I would say, you

59:26

gotta, people don't really understand everything

59:29

that, that it entails. And next

59:31

thing you know, there is an

59:33

entire German city lying on the

59:35

ground dead with blood coming out

59:37

of their orifices, because some little

59:39

boy thought he could handle a

59:42

Goth girlfriend. Yes, that is the

59:44

message message of this film. Maybe

59:46

it happened to Eggers. That's why

59:48

he was warning. That's what he

59:50

was trying to do. He's warning

59:52

people. It doesn't always work out

59:55

like you think. You know, maybe

59:57

you just need to get on

59:59

hinge and look. For a girl

1:00:01

who likes to crochet, I don't

1:00:03

know. I guess there's goth girls

1:00:06

who like to crochet.

1:00:08

House flipping shows. Look

1:00:10

for a girl, look for

1:00:12

like an interior designer or

1:00:15

something. Someone who just has

1:00:17

a nice little career, you

1:00:20

know, maybe like a little

1:00:22

girl boss or like, I

1:00:24

don't know. like a nice a

1:00:26

nice girl a kindergarten teacher you

1:00:29

know a blonde you don't need

1:00:31

to date someone with this

1:00:33

many problems I know we're really

1:00:35

sexy but it's we could be

1:00:37

a lot and now we just

1:00:40

need to figure out who hurt

1:00:42

him that inspired this whole

1:00:44

movie but not a bad film

1:00:46

watch it it's good It's good, you

1:00:48

have a good time if you like

1:00:51

vampire stuff. I think, like, I was

1:00:53

kind of surprised it came out on

1:00:55

Christmas Day, but now watching the movie,

1:00:57

it's like, no, this is kind of

1:00:59

a broad release. Dracula movie. It's a

1:01:02

beautiful looking movie and it's Dracula.

1:01:04

Like it's the same story that

1:01:06

you've already seen a bunch of

1:01:08

times in a row and that

1:01:10

could be fun. That could be

1:01:12

comforting to know what's going to

1:01:14

happen in a movie or approximately

1:01:16

what's going to happen in a movie.

1:01:18

I think it's kind of fun. I'm

1:01:20

thinking a three and a half with a... to four.

1:01:22

Yeah, I would say it's about a

1:01:24

three and a half and it

1:01:27

definitely got bumped up a little

1:01:29

bit for the beautiful cinematography that

1:01:31

we talked about a little bit,

1:01:34

particularly the creepy fingers. I am

1:01:36

a sucker for some good creepy

1:01:38

fingers and that is a major

1:01:41

motif in this film just like

1:01:43

in the old Nosferatu from the

1:01:45

Weimar era. So I'm giving

1:01:47

it a three and a half.

1:01:50

You know, it might not have

1:01:52

as much sucking and fucking as

1:01:54

other Dracula movies, but it's in

1:01:56

there. It's definitely horny, don't worry.

1:01:59

There's blood. there's death there's

1:02:01

sex there's insanity there's everything

1:02:04

that you want from a

1:02:06

Dracula movie and it's not

1:02:09

like a subtle piece of

1:02:11

filmmaking no but that's that's

1:02:14

okay sometimes stuff could just

1:02:16

be pulpy and campy and

1:02:18

we don't have to act

1:02:21

like it's high fucking art

1:02:23

so 3.5 fangs totally acceptable

1:02:27

I'll watch a 3.5 fanger any day

1:02:29

And it's fine. Robert Eggers,

1:02:31

man of the people, director

1:02:33

of the people, maybe, maybe, I'm

1:02:36

not sure. He put out, he

1:02:38

had a comment where he says

1:02:40

he never wants to direct a

1:02:43

movie set in modern times, which

1:02:45

like, like, I think it's fine,

1:02:48

like, you know, direct what

1:02:50

you want to direct, but

1:02:52

also people have mentioned

1:02:54

that when, you know, these, you

1:02:56

know, respected artists. don't engage

1:02:58

with the modern world we're

1:03:00

kind of missing out on

1:03:02

stuff because the money and

1:03:04

the resources that studios and

1:03:06

production companies in our tent

1:03:09

is a limited amount and

1:03:11

if we're just spending our

1:03:13

time remaking Dracula set you

1:03:15

know in the 1800s are

1:03:17

we making art that's actually

1:03:19

responsive to the real as

1:03:21

responsive to the real world

1:03:23

as it could be obviously

1:03:25

all films are going to reflect

1:03:27

the time that they're made

1:03:29

in obviously and can be

1:03:32

metaphors etc. But you know

1:03:34

I've heard some convincing argument

1:03:36

from people that we should still

1:03:38

like try we should want our

1:03:40

great artists to deal with the

1:03:42

right now as well like that's

1:03:44

an important thing and directly to

1:03:46

not just through metaphor. I don't

1:03:48

know. If I had only seen this

1:03:50

particular movie of his, I would not

1:03:53

think he was a great artist necessarily.

1:03:55

But, uh, now if he wants

1:03:57

to do some social commentary.

1:04:00

via movies about the past

1:04:02

or the fantastical past then

1:04:04

that's fine with me honestly

1:04:06

yet that may be giving him too

1:04:08

much credit that was just that was

1:04:11

just a general take maybe Eggers yes

1:04:13

you can keep I think for Eggers

1:04:15

he can stay in the past you

1:04:18

can keep making old stuff I

1:04:20

think well as a society will

1:04:22

survive that will be okay well

1:04:24

that was an episode all right

1:04:27

that was a great episode all

1:04:29

right Jamie it's great to

1:04:31

talk to you once again

1:04:33

as always great to talk

1:04:35

to you too Leslie be

1:04:37

well and oh breaking news

1:04:40

that I just read today

1:04:42

they're bringing back Buffy apparently

1:04:44

oh yes so we should

1:04:47

have quite a lot to

1:04:49

talk about in the near

1:04:51

future when we do another

1:04:54

one This is always

1:04:56

a pleasure and until

1:04:58

next time, you know,

1:05:00

protect your neck. Peace.