0:00

So it's no secret that every

0:02

soul. Often we will run

0:04

across a story that stays

0:07

with us after the after the

0:09

digital tape stops rolling. And

0:11

that's the case with today's classic

0:13

episode called simply what

0:16

is the Octopus? Hint, it's

0:18

not a has nothing to do with a maritime

0:20

creature. No, no, it has to

0:22

do with a journalist that stumbles

0:24

upon a story that really takes

0:26

over his life in a lot of

0:28

ways. And my goodness,

0:31

it is compelling. It feels like

0:34

some kind of movie, and it was actually

0:36

made into It's been made into several

0:38

different screen versions, and we highly

0:40

recommend this episode.

0:43

Again has been said, I there's not

0:46

there's not a month that goes by when I don't think about

0:48

Danny Cassilero and the Octopus. So

0:50

wrap all eight of your arms around this podcast

0:53

for an octopus like hug uh

0:55

and and you might learn something too from

0:58

UFOs two Ghosts and Government cover ups.

1:01

History is writtled with unexplained events.

1:03

You can turn back now or learn the

1:05

stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,

1:13

everyone, welcome back to the show. My name is

1:15

Matt and Ben, and that makes this stuff

1:17

they don't want you to know. And you guys,

1:20

oh man, you're in for a treat. This

1:22

is something we usually don't get to cover. It's

1:25

a mega conspiracy, that's

1:27

right. It is a conspiracy

1:30

that, if true, involves

1:32

multiple conspiracies functioning

1:35

in concert. This is a supersize

1:39

conspiracy theory. And we

1:41

do have to say theory, Matt, because

1:43

at this point, while a few of

1:45

these things are have been proven

1:47

definitely right, a few things have been proven

1:50

true. This is so big

1:53

that the connections between

1:55

these events are the part that

1:57

is that remains. Theoretical. Connect

2:00

actions are the key and and a lot of times with conspiracy

2:02

theories, that's the missing piece, connective

2:05

tissue between two or more

2:07

events. So let's dive

2:09

right in. First off to the

2:12

to our listener Alex on

2:14

Twitter, who asked us what we

2:16

were covering earlier this week. Alex,

2:19

I did tell you that it was

2:21

an octopus. Did say it

2:23

was bigger than a giant octopus, but

2:26

I did not mean the animal. This,

2:28

in fact is a group

2:31

that, if it exists, is called

2:33

the octopus. Matt. Could you just

2:35

just lay the gist of the conspiracy theory

2:38

down for us? Okay, here you go, guys. This is juicy.

2:41

So the Octopus is a group

2:43

of interconnected, powerful networks

2:45

that cooperate together to further

2:48

their mutual interests and uh

2:50

and they've been doing so for a long long

2:52

time. Now. This group was allegedly discovered

2:55

by this journalist. His name was Danny

2:57

Castillo. And if you've

2:59

watched our video already, uh,

3:01

the The Tentacles of the Octopus,

3:04

you you saw that we kind of mentioned his name,

3:06

and uh, this is one of the places where we're gonna

3:08

go deep into Danny Cassaliro's life.

3:11

So this guy discovered

3:13

it and he was beginning an

3:15

investigation essentially, And

3:17

what Danny Cassaliro was looking into

3:19

was this ongoing legal dispute between

3:22

the Department of Justice and an I T

3:24

group, a company named in Slough Incorporated.

3:27

And he he called this group the Octopus

3:30

due to his belief that this there's

3:32

this organization involved in multiple

3:35

criminal activities again kind of a head

3:37

that has its tentacles in all these different

3:39

places. And his investigation

3:42

it gained him national recognition

3:45

because he died supposedly

3:49

as a result. Uh yeah.

3:51

Now, this is one of those episodes,

3:54

ladies and gentlemen, where if you are

3:56

not driving, feel free to make a drinking

3:58

game. How many times we mentioned

4:00

the words alleged or allegedly,

4:03

because again we have to be careful with this. Uh.

4:06

Danny Casilero to his friends, Joseph

4:09

Daniel Castilero full name uh,

4:11

did die in August of nine

4:15

one. The official cause of his

4:17

death was listed as a suicide,

4:19

and his body was examined not once but

4:22

twice by different medical professionals,

4:24

and both times they reached the same

4:26

conclusion. Now, yeah, well, let me

4:28

just give some context. He he was found in a bathtub

4:31

with his wrists slit up

4:34

to twelve times, Yeah, in the

4:36

Sheraton Hotel of Martinsburg, West

4:38

Virginia, exactly. And he

4:41

had told his family and friends that

4:43

if he were to die, it would look

4:45

like an accident, and it wouldn't be an accident. That's

4:47

according to his brother, right, And

4:49

um uh, there was a suicide

4:52

note. Right, there was a suicide

4:54

note. And let's let's go back

4:56

here first and say that when Cassilero

5:00

are investigating the dispute

5:02

between the Department of Justice in this group

5:04

in slaw, he was just

5:07

investigating whether or not

5:09

there were Shenanigan's uh going

5:12

on in these court cases, right, which had

5:14

already turned pretty nasty by the time

5:16

he shows up on the scene. What he

5:18

believed he discovered, this

5:21

octopus that he alleged existed,

5:24

came about as a result of his investigations,

5:27

and that's when things began to get

5:29

more and more tense. That's when he became,

5:32

you could say, more paranoid. That's

5:34

when he became more concerned that

5:37

his investigation might put

5:40

him or his sources

5:42

in some sort of danger. He had

5:44

been he had been receiving phone calls

5:47

that were menacing in nature and from

5:49

anonymous sources, and that was corroborated

5:51

by I think his housekeeper absolutely. Uh.

5:53

His housekeeper corroborated these stories

5:56

and went on record saying

5:58

that she had been the anal recipient

6:01

of a few of these phone calls. Uh.

6:04

I believe the The anecdote that suck with

6:06

me the most is where she testifies

6:09

that she received a threatening phone

6:11

call. When she picked up the phone, someone

6:14

just threatened to throw her and

6:16

Castolero to the sharks. Now,

6:20

I don't want to make light of it, but

6:22

this is one of the reasons that I

6:25

am so thankful for caller I d and

6:27

don't answer unfamiliar numbers, you

6:29

know. And this was a time. Uh,

6:31

this is a way to segue into technology, because

6:33

this was a time when the

6:36

Internet was not as wide

6:38

known, as widely spread as it was today.

6:40

This was a time where people didn't

6:42

have the pervasive access to

6:44

social media or the

6:47

abilities that we have today to track

6:49

people. Yeah, it's a it's a strange thing to think

6:51

about, just the time before

6:54

caller I D something as simple as calor

6:56

I D. Just knowing who you're

6:58

picking up a phone and connecting to. Uh

7:01

it, Oh man, It just it makes

7:04

you realize how how pervasive,

7:06

massive amounts of information exists on the

7:09

people you're communicating with at any

7:11

moment in time. How theymos

7:14

the anonymous nature of that communication

7:16

is kind of going away right Uh

7:19

now, in the case of Castilero, that's

7:21

something we wanted to pin on your radar, folks,

7:23

So remember that it's going to be a big part of this

7:25

episode in just a few minutes. Uh.

7:28

For Castilero, when the official

7:30

cause of death was listed as a suicide,

7:33

several of his friends, family members and

7:35

confidence you mentioned his brother already,

7:37

I mentioned his housekeeper didn't buy the

7:39

official story. They believe that Castelero

7:41

was murdered because he was on the verge of

7:43

exposing this

7:49

stuff. They don't want you to know, that's

7:51

right. So so first things first, Ben, Yeah,

7:54

Um, Unfortunately, because

7:56

of circumstances in their lives, people

7:59

do commit suicide. And h

8:01

it's a it's a tough thing to grapple with at

8:04

any time. Um. You know,

8:07

again, there's so many circumstantial things

8:09

that can happen stress. We don't have

8:11

to go into all that right now, but we

8:13

do know that it happens, and

8:15

there was a suicide note found with Danny,

8:18

so it is possible that maybe he did take

8:20

his own life m due to the stress.

8:23

Anything else I'm saying here is conjecture. But

8:26

well, I think I think the point we're at right

8:28

now is we're asking, Okay, after

8:30

this this grand, mega conspiracy,

8:32

the gist of this, could it be true?

8:34

We have outlined a couple of things. You raise a very important

8:37

and unfortunate point, which is that people

8:39

do take their own lives. We've

8:41

already mentioned that he was found with the

8:44

ten to twelve slash wounds on his wrist in

8:46

the bathtub of room five

8:48

seventeen. I believe that the Sheridan that

8:51

he had also been harassed and

8:53

threatened. As his progress on the end

8:55

slaw case, uh continued

8:58

to go a little bit deeper each time,

9:00

a little bit further down the rabbit hole. It's

9:02

also true that Time magazine

9:04

had commissioned him to cover

9:07

this case. And now we

9:09

have to ask why was he in Martinsburg,

9:12

West Virginia to begin with? Here is

9:14

the major point of contention. He

9:17

was there because he was making

9:19

contact with the source that he really

9:21

believed would give him the last little bit

9:23

of connective tissue, the evidence that he needed

9:26

to reach what he called the head

9:28

of the octopus, the main part of the organization.

9:31

And uh, that's why people

9:34

believe that he did not take his own life. Right

9:37

now, if we look at this octopus

9:40

thing, this idea, if it it does

9:43

exist, then what we're looking

9:45

at is the concept of some sort

9:47

of super mafia for lack of

9:49

a better term. Sure, Uh,

9:51

the before we go

9:54

too far into the super

9:56

mafia aspect or whatever, let's

9:59

look at some of the big

10:01

players that Castolero

10:04

and other conspiracy theorists after him

10:06

have been naming as members

10:08

or tentacles of the octopus. The possible

10:11

suspects, right, yeah, not the usual,

10:13

but the possible. Uh yeah.

10:15

So the first one is the Department of

10:18

Justice. Uh so,

10:20

so they used and improved

10:23

this this piece of software called Promise

10:26

and it was that was this is the thing that was

10:28

made by Insula Incorporated. And

10:30

they used it to become basically

10:33

full on people tracking and

10:35

and uh surveillance machines. Are

10:38

they they wanted to be a people tracker,

10:40

right right? Yeah, they took they took

10:42

the idea of the Promise software,

10:45

which was means of managing

10:47

legal cases electronically, and

10:50

enhanced the source code so

10:53

that it wouldn't just be a

10:55

case management system, but it would

10:58

be a people management stem.

11:00

And after they enhanced it, which

11:03

violated the terms of their license. Uh.

11:05

They also cooperated with other governments,

11:08

um to sell the software. But I want

11:10

to I want to save some of the Promised

11:12

stuff. Just need to know that there

11:14

that they're one of the biggest players.

11:16

At least they're one of the first touchstones

11:19

that Castellero believed he found. Now

11:23

of course, uh, this being

11:25

a story about spies,

11:28

we can't go too far without running

11:30

into an intelligence agency, right, and so it

11:32

should be no surprise that another member of

11:35

this alleged octopus would

11:37

be the CIA, which was allegedly

11:40

working with Iran private

11:42

weapon manufacturers and a bank

11:44

called b c c I

11:47

to UH funnel drug

11:50

trade and weapons sales money

11:52

from Iran and other sources

11:54

into money for Nicaraguan

11:57

contras um, which of or

12:00

a lot of our listeners will recognize

12:02

as the Iran contra scandal.

12:05

Yes, and you do a great job of outlining

12:07

that, Ben, I have to say in the video the

12:09

Tentacles video. If you haven't watched it, please

12:12

again watch that video. Oh yeah, Wednesday

12:14

video. Yep. Um the well, thank

12:16

you, Matt. I appreciate I I was. I

12:19

was proud of that video.

12:21

You did a great job. So man, I'm blessing

12:23

over here. And so we did mention the banks

12:25

as well, the b c c I, which

12:28

was again allegedly UH

12:30

working with the CIA and related organizations

12:33

to store and launder money. One point

12:35

there, when we say allegedly working

12:37

with the CIA in this case, it's

12:40

a little bit nuanced because we do know

12:42

that b c c I and

12:44

the CIA were working together.

12:47

The question is whether they were

12:49

working together to do something illegal,

12:52

You know what I mean. It's not it's not abnormal

12:54

for a government agency to work with a private

12:56

organization like a bank. Absolutely, and

12:59

the money. You know, you've always heard follow the

13:01

money. So we've already gotten to the bank.

13:04

Who else could we possibly have on this

13:06

list? Ben, Oh, well, I'm

13:08

I'm scooting to the edge of my

13:10

seat, Matt, who is it? It's Iran.

13:15

So we've mentioned that Iran

13:17

is buying weapons, and they're

13:19

also supplying cash for

13:22

the contras in Nicaragua, and

13:24

uh, even though maybe they didn't even

13:26

know about it. Maybe maybe Iran didn't know where the cash

13:29

was good. Maybe um,

13:31

maybe they did, but uh,

13:33

they're also working with factions of the Reagan administration

13:36

to manufacture a little thing called

13:38

the October Surprise, which

13:41

remains um alleged

13:43

to say, oh my gosh, if people are playing the drinking

13:45

game, now have some

13:48

water. Please have a couple of SIPs

13:50

of water for the next few alleged alleged

13:53

mentions. So the October Surprise

13:55

real quick sidebar is this

13:57

conspiracy theory that during the

13:59

time time that Ronald Reagan and

14:01

Jimmy Carter were both contesting

14:04

the office of the Presidency in

14:06

the United States, that there

14:08

were hostages held by

14:10

Iran and that somehow

14:14

somebody told them, told

14:16

the hostage takers to hold

14:19

those hostages until, um,

14:22

they would be released, you know, when Reagan

14:24

was elected or something like that.

14:26

Yeah, and there there's some there's some

14:29

pros and cons. It's definitely an interesting thing

14:31

to think about. But again it is important to

14:33

say that that was never conclusively

14:36

proven. The timing did happen

14:38

to work out that way, however, agreed,

14:41

it's not proven. Well, yeah, and how much of that is

14:43

confirmation bias? There's so much you want to see

14:45

and and how much of that other people

14:48

would argue was somehow

14:50

suppressed because again, in

14:52

an age before such

14:54

pervasive technology existed,

14:57

you know, uh, it may have been easier to

15:00

you something with that amount of subterfuge.

15:02

But those are some of the big players.

15:04

And here's the thing. Castelero

15:07

believed that these were all

15:09

related, all um, if

15:11

you will, all all tips above

15:13

the water of a massive iceberg.

15:15

That was all one thing. And to

15:18

to really figure out more of this

15:20

now it's time for us to look

15:22

at promise. We've mentioned what

15:25

happened in the early nineteen eighties, and

15:27

this is in our our video series on this in

15:29

the early nineteen eighties. Uh, this

15:31

I T group in Slaw, which I

15:33

still think is a terrible name. It just yeah,

15:36

it doesn't ring. It sounds like they're Cole

15:39

Slaw. All

15:41

I hear in my head is the Slaw part.

15:43

Yeah, maybe we're just hungry? Are we guilty of

15:45

podcasting? Younger? I think I think PR has

15:47

just gotten so much more pervasive and

15:50

people have gotten better at PR. Now you don't

15:52

name your company something like that, and maybe it

15:54

has a personal reason. Um yeah,

15:57

that's perhaps it's a clever acronym.

15:59

That's uh really, I guess

16:01

not the not the most relevant point

16:03

to assure today. But despite

16:06

our opinion about what they name

16:08

their company, one thing is for sure,

16:11

objectively speaking, they were

16:13

fantastic at this case

16:15

management software. This idea

16:18

of promise um is

16:21

is something that changes the game. If we can cast

16:23

our memories back to the nineteen

16:25

eighties, or for you younger listeners,

16:28

cast your imagination back there.

16:30

Uh. The deal that the Department

16:32

of Justice made within Slaw was to install

16:35

this revolutionary people managing

16:37

case management software in forty

16:40

two U S attorneys offices

16:42

across the United States. And

16:45

when you make these kind of agreements

16:47

for software when you're essentially doing

16:49

is buying a license. So right,

16:52

so the Department of Justice gets

16:54

a license for these forty

16:56

two locations of promise.

16:59

How However, as

17:01

as we mentioned earlier, apparently

17:04

in the Department of Justice, according to inslaw

17:07

and a couple of court cases, uh,

17:09

the Department of Justice stole this program,

17:12

enhance the code to make a bigger,

17:14

better promise and sold

17:16

it to foreign governments.

17:19

In slaw did take them to court. Inslaw

17:21

didn't just say, uh,

17:23

you know, Uncle Sam wasn't truthful

17:26

in his dealings with us. They also said

17:28

that Uncle Sam was attempting

17:31

to bankrupt the company in

17:33

order to silence them and stop

17:36

the litigation. That's right, and there's

17:38

more to that. I just want to also reiterate

17:40

that another thing that they did that d

17:42

o J with this software is right a back

17:44

door so that the people they were

17:46

selling this software too, they

17:48

could have access to the information that was

17:51

being used on other ends. So let's

17:54

say let's say of

17:56

I don't know them, SAD purchase this

17:58

software. It gets installed.

18:01

Now I in the U S and the

18:03

d o J, I can read everything that you're putting

18:05

in through this software. Because I know how to access

18:07

it right or or

18:09

as was specifically alleged, it

18:11

was Middle Eastern countries. They said that the

18:14

United States was selling this to

18:17

Syria or Jordan's with the backdoor

18:19

to monitor the

18:21

activities of the government. If

18:24

this is or was true,

18:27

it's a very hefty and serious

18:29

allegation. Um, still

18:32

still drinking water because we have more

18:34

and uh, the this

18:37

is what happened. So it's very interesting a

18:40

bankruptcy judge of all people

18:43

sides with Inslaw and gives

18:45

them a heap of money too. Yeah, it says that

18:48

the Department of Justice must

18:50

pay the president events Law, Bill Hamilton's

18:52

six point eight million dollars

18:54

in damages. Yeah, it's

18:57

pretty serious. But but that wasn't the

18:59

end. Uh. Well, it

19:01

was the end of that judge's career

19:03

because when his reappointment came

19:06

up, he was not reappointed.

19:08

Uh. And he believes that

19:10

this was in some

19:12

way retribution for his ruling.

19:15

Uh. There was another judge

19:17

appointed to fill that seat who

19:20

was one of the lawyers arguing

19:22

in the ins Law versus d O G d

19:25

O J. Case. By

19:27

the way, if you guys want to in

19:30

in the interim before our episode, drops

19:32

later in this week. Uh, if

19:34

you want to find out more about this Insulaw case,

19:37

there's a YouTube video from an Australian

19:39

broadcasting company that back

19:41

in the day did an entire series

19:43

called the Insulaw Affair, and

19:46

you may or may not find a link to it

19:48

somewhere hidden in our video from Wednesday.

19:51

Yeah, you might have to go frame by frame, but

19:54

it's there, right, It's somewhere in there. And

19:57

speaking of massive conspiracies,

20:00

we do always have a

20:02

couple of interesting little

20:04

easter eggs in our videos.

20:06

So if you think you've seen the whole

20:08

thing from watching it once, might bear

20:10

another look or five or

20:13

five. Yes, And uh,

20:15

now that we're adding our own massive

20:17

conperience on top of this. Uh, if

20:19

we get back to this concept

20:22

here, um, this this idea

20:25

that somehow these things could

20:27

all be connected, then we realize

20:29

that these allegations require

20:31

an extraordinary amount of proof. Um.

20:34

First off, we know that we know that

20:36

Congress did not dismiss

20:38

these uh, these allegations or these

20:40

claims that were Congressional investigations

20:43

into the matter, and the

20:46

Standing Subcommittee or the Permanent

20:48

Subcommittee tasked with looking

20:50

at this in the Senate found that

20:53

how did they put it. We cannot

20:55

say there is any evidence of

20:57

wrongdoing. Yes, I

21:00

could not say that there was no wrongdoing,

21:02

and they could not say that there

21:05

was wrong doing. It's it's not it's

21:07

not up there with you know, neither confirm nor

21:09

deny. But but they said when

21:12

Congress looked at it, that the facts

21:15

just weren't there for further legal

21:17

action. Not every member of Congress

21:20

was happy with this, of course, and people

21:22

who believed that there was something

21:25

rotten and denmark er rotten in Washington

21:28

to point of phrase. Uh, for those

21:30

people, this was further confirmation

21:33

that there was something amiss. However,

21:38

at this point, we do know that

21:40

um, we we do know that

21:43

Danny Castolero's piece

21:46

that was going to be published, uh, never

21:48

saw prints. And we do know that there

21:50

there are some fairly divided

21:52

groups about this, right, which is something

21:55

you and I run into a lot on shows. Uh.

21:57

There are people who say that

21:59

this is pervasive

22:01

and it's massive and the lack of hard

22:04

evidence indicates that there's someone

22:06

out there suppressing truth. And then we have the other

22:08

side and that it's still happening and

22:11

they're still in charge. There's these people are still

22:14

doing it. Yeah. And then there are other people who just say,

22:16

come on, guys, this is this

22:18

is this is crazy talk. We can't we

22:20

can't even look into these kind of things

22:23

because if we truly believe that these

22:25

people can be this organized

22:28

and you know, this secretive about

22:30

something this huge, then

22:33

guys, what the heck are we doing here? And

22:35

that's always the question, isn't it when

22:37

it comes to the idea of a massive conspiracy.

22:40

Uh, most people are terrible

22:43

and keeping a secret, a

22:46

meaningless secret. You know, like you

22:48

you watched a television show that

22:50

you were supposed to watch with your friends by yourself.

22:53

Can you keep it quiet till Thursday? Yeah?

22:56

Right? And I mean that's anecdotal, and I'm not trying

22:58

to belittle this, but what I am saying is

23:02

for this to be true, there would

23:04

have to be a lot of other things

23:06

in play. And for people

23:08

who do believe that there's a conspiracy, they point

23:10

to, um numerous

23:13

mysterious deaths that maybe mafia hits.

23:15

It is it is known. Uh, it

23:18

has come to light before that various

23:20

factions of domestic agencies

23:23

have worked in some way or another

23:26

with a criminal element, right like the

23:28

old fast and furious scandal um

23:30

or the idea of

23:33

people who would be CIA assets or

23:35

informants working with

23:37

criminal organizations. That's

23:39

why, that's why we're very careful to

23:41

say facets, because

23:44

we we can't say

23:46

that an entire group of people

23:48

does something because a couple do. But

23:53

we also know that organizations like

23:55

the CIA, and specifically

23:58

the CIA, they have their ends

24:00

in a lot of things. We recently

24:02

just learned that well, something

24:05

that we probably all kind of assumed, but

24:07

that in Ukraine, the

24:09

the forces in Ukraine are being I

24:12

I want to use the word managed, but that's not the

24:14

correct advised. That would be the

24:16

correct word by the CIA as

24:18

well as the FBI because of an

24:20

anti terrorism angle. Well, I'm

24:23

sure that there are other forces in Ukraine being

24:25

advised by the kgbely

24:27

excuse me, Oh, they don't exist anymore. Sorry.

24:31

So as we see this is this

24:33

is just a kind of a quick look

24:36

to explore in some more detail

24:38

the ideas of the octopus.

24:41

And it's strange to think that this story

24:44

was big for a time and

24:46

now I think it's safe to say that most people

24:49

um are not aware of

24:51

this historical conspiracy theory.

24:53

I would say, a lot of people are aware of some of

24:55

some of the tentacles, right yeah,

24:58

and the big question is if they were all did

25:00

we know that the octopus,

25:02

whether it is real or not, has never been proven

25:05

to exist. But some allegations

25:07

did become fact. Aron

25:10

Contra became a real scandal, and

25:13

uh, then congressional investigations

25:16

into the Department of Justice and Inslaw

25:18

returned with findings that Congress

25:21

itself did not agree with and

25:23

in and for a long time litigation

25:26

dragged on between Inslaw

25:29

and the Department of Justice, and the

25:31

October Surprise became

25:33

a big thing. Well I guess it kind

25:35

of rocking it up into a big

25:38

thing, but it was still never proven, right

25:40

yeah, it's still alleged. Uh. And

25:42

then you know, and let's

25:44

pause here just for a second, because I have

25:46

to ask you, how much of this would you say?

25:49

Uh, thanks, Lisa, October Surprise.

25:52

On contrary, these things that pop up around

25:55

election time or to take

25:57

down a president, how many of these things

25:59

are genuine and how many are

26:01

manufactured political crises?

26:03

This always you know, I've been watching House of Cards

26:06

and thinking John, Yeah, well

26:08

yeah, okay, so is strictly

26:10

in my opinion, I would say that powerful

26:13

people will use means to

26:15

get what they want or need. Um,

26:19

yeah, they'll use all kinds of different means. But I don't

26:21

necessarily think, I

26:23

don't know putting lives in danger in that

26:26

way. Specifically

26:28

for the October surprise, I have

26:30

to remain skeptical just to just

26:33

to not go hide in a whole

26:36

somewhere. Well, if we did, okay,

26:38

just come with me, we did a

26:40

cost benefit analysis. Let's

26:42

say you're pressure right, you're going to be

26:44

president. Would you want to take

26:46

the risk of something going wrong? Because

26:49

if something goes even just a little

26:51

bit wrong, your can't Your

26:54

career is going to be messed up,

26:56

I suppose. And if I have the means and the assets

26:59

to manage the situation, I guess I would.

27:02

All right, So before we go to

27:04

some feedback from our listeners who

27:06

have written in to us from

27:08

around the world and thank you guys, I

27:11

gotta ask Matt, tell

27:13

me if you don't want to go on record saying this, if

27:16

the octopus will get us, do you

27:18

think this is a conspiracy theory or

27:21

a conspiracy fact? And do

27:23

you think Danny Castilero took

27:25

his own life or do you think he was murdered.

27:29

I'll answer these two, all right, Okay, it's

27:31

fair. Well, I

27:34

would have to say, I know the feeling,

27:37

and I've seen it so many It's cropped up

27:39

for so many of the people that we've

27:41

talked about who have died, who have committed

27:44

suicide, at least according to the official

27:46

record, UM, who go on record

27:48

to their friends and family and say that I

27:50

will never commit suicide, and

27:53

then they do, at least

27:55

according to the record, And that just

27:58

that alone makes me suspicious. UM,

28:02

I would have to say, I personally

28:04

don't think he committed suicide. Okay,

28:07

all right, I see, I see what you're saying. UM.

28:10

With whether or not this is a conspiracy

28:13

theory or if there is a

28:15

large factual basis behind it.

28:17

What I've been looking for and

28:20

what I think you and I have both been looking for as

28:22

we as we look through this case,

28:24

as we researched and dug into various

28:26

things, UM is some

28:28

more connective tissue. I really enjoy

28:31

that phrase you use, because

28:33

it is completely possible that

28:37

various things can happen drug activity,

28:40

weapons trades, being

28:42

manufacturer on Indian reservation

28:44

and and proxy companies and stuff.

28:46

Like that, it's completely possible that those happen

28:48

without being related. And

28:51

as for whether

28:54

Danny Castelero was murdered

28:56

that night or whether he committed

28:59

suicide, I'm gonna have to say

29:02

that the unless

29:05

there's more information that I don't have,

29:07

the notion that he committed suicide

29:10

does seem abnormal to me. It's

29:13

it's um, skepticism goes

29:15

both ways, you know what I mean. And

29:18

this is not to say that people don't

29:21

uh don't do things like this without

29:24

for warning, you know, and um,

29:27

of course we remain open minded. If

29:29

there's more to the story. Perhaps there were some

29:31

warning signs that Castelero showed

29:34

beforehand, you know, the red

29:36

flags or yellow flags of someone having

29:39

suicidal ideation. But with

29:43

the knowledge we have, with what we've

29:46

checked, um, it does

29:48

seem suspicious. But

29:50

again again we go back his the

29:52

body was examined not once but twice,

29:55

and both times it was His

29:57

body was, however, embalmed

30:00

before the family was even made aware

30:02

that he was dead, which is interesting

30:05

at least that's according to his brother Um

30:08

from that Australian broadcast. Here's

30:11

the one last thing I would want to add, Ben for

30:13

someone to if someone killed

30:16

Danny Castle Arrow, I would say

30:18

that it doesn't. It doesn't

30:20

mean that the octopus in total has

30:22

to be real. All it means is that one of the things,

30:24

one of the tentacles, had to be

30:27

real and dangerous enough for him to

30:29

be investigating that he would warrant

30:31

someone taking his life. So

30:33

just the fact, even if he truly did not

30:35

commit suicide, it doesn't necessarily

30:38

prove that the octopus exists. Right.

30:40

Yeah, that's a really good point man. And

30:43

speaking of really good points, we would

30:45

like you guys to make a few Let

30:47

us know what you think about this

30:49

whole octopus mega conspiracy.

30:52

Is it all bunk? Is it all true? Is

30:54

there a spectrum and this and this

30:56

story falls somewhere in between? Um?

31:00

What do you think, if anything

31:02

could finally determine the

31:05

truth of this story or is it even possible

31:07

to Is this just a story? Um?

31:10

Of course you can read numerous articles.

31:12

Wired has some great stuff on that Time magazine

31:14

as well about people who believe

31:17

that they are cracking down

31:19

on this case or tracking it. And

31:22

um, we're just very interested to

31:25

hear what you have to say about it.

31:27

And that's right. Find us on Facebook. We

31:29

are conspiracy stuff. We're also at

31:31

conspiracy stuff on Twitter. You

31:34

can always go to our YouTube channel,

31:36

which is also conspiracy stuff, or

31:38

our brand new website Stuff they Don't

31:40

Want you to Know dot com. And hey, while

31:43

you're at it, why don't you go to our mother website,

31:45

how Stuff Works dot com. You

31:47

can learn about everything. They're not

31:49

just conspiracies. Sure, you can learn

31:51

about everything, from other

31:54

obscure and fascinating historical tales

31:56

to the nature of tech and the

31:58

future. Everything is science related pretty

32:01

much. And just to prove that,

32:04

just to prove to you how much we enjoy

32:06

listener mail, Matt, you wanna check out

32:08

a tweet, Let's do it, okay,

32:15

Matt. Today's tweet comes

32:17

to us from our friends Zombie

32:19

combat Diver, who

32:21

says, hey, conspiracy stuff. Uh,

32:24

looking at all the zombie lore. Why aren't

32:26

there zombie animals? Well, I'm

32:28

gonna feel this one if you don't mind, Ben, Yeah, take it

32:30

away. Well, first of all, hello, Eric, Uh?

32:33

Oh is that okay? Oh? Yeah, you guys

32:36

met each other? I r L Is that correct? Yeah?

32:39

He may or may not work in

32:41

our building. And he drives the coolest

32:44

vehicle that I've ever seen in my life.

32:46

Definitely a living person, though not a zombie.

32:49

Not a zombie good good to know. Well,

32:51

I would have to say there have been

32:54

at least lore of animal zombies.

32:56

All you have to do is check out Resident Evil any

32:59

of that for chise. It shows you that many

33:02

there's a virus that infects all living

33:04

beings, including spiders and snakes,

33:07

everything in between. Although

33:10

there isn't much There isn't much

33:12

old folklore of zombie animals.

33:15

I guess I think maybe it has something

33:17

to do with to be a zombie.

33:20

It has something to do with losing consciousness,

33:22

losing humanity. Yeah. Well, uh,

33:25

that's a great point, Matt, and I think I can dovetail

33:28

onto this a little bit. The

33:30

most apparent example I can

33:33

think of would be the undead animals

33:35

in pet Cemetery the

33:37

novel, not the film, which is fine,

33:39

Which is fine. Um, they don't explain

33:41

why they spell it that way in the novel

33:43

either, But you are

33:46

right, there does seem to be kind of a dearth

33:48

of folklore. Maybe for something to

33:50

be an undead thing, it has

33:52

to have a humanity, uh, to lose.

33:55

But to add another interesting

33:58

addition here, um,

34:01

it is true that there are numerous

34:03

animals that can enter a deathlike

34:05

state and then be resurrected. You

34:07

know. They're frogs that

34:09

will just tough out a drought in

34:12

the dry mud of a river bed. Um.

34:14

There are other animals

34:16

that can be put And now I'm not talking about a bear

34:18

hibernating or something, because it still has

34:21

life signs that you can monitor. But

34:24

it is um. It is possible

34:26

that people thought it was

34:28

a normal thing for some animals just

34:31

to die and come back when the

34:33

water returns. But it is possible

34:35

that people in the past may have seen some

34:38

of these animals and just thought it was normal

34:40

for them to quote unquote die and then return

34:42

to life. Um. And

34:45

that is if our show we have a whole

34:47

bunch of tweets that we would

34:49

like to answer on air with some excellent questions.

34:52

I have a little special then,

34:54

Yeah, I think it might be time that for

34:57

a listener question special,

35:00

which we'll we'll come up with a way better sounding type.

35:02

Yeah. One more

35:04

thing just in case you are not intoxicated.

35:07

Alleged alleged and

35:10

a legend. Yes, yes,

35:13

yes, allegedly. That was our plan

35:15

all along, right that, yes man,

35:18

when we came in here we allegedly had

35:20

a plan, but then I don't know, it

35:22

just went out the supposed window. Or

35:24

we just one small part of a much larger

35:27

planned Spanny generations.

35:30

And that's the end of this classic episode.

35:33

If you have any thoughts or questions

35:35

about this episode, you can

35:37

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35:39

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35:42

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35:51

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35:54

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