0:01

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production

0:04

of I Heart Radio. Hey,

0:11

I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,

0:13

and there's Chuck and there's Jerry over

0:15

there, and this is Stuff you should Know. Titanic

0:18

Edition, Part two, this

0:20

sequel. When

0:22

we last left off, the Titanic

0:25

had just set sail. Yeah, it was you

0:28

you. I'd like to say it was in fine shape, but it had

0:30

almost sucked another ship into

0:32

it, and it had a coal fire aboard. But other

0:34

than that, it was doing just fine. I

0:36

wonder if the captain, after they averted

0:38

hitting the New York was like, did you see those

0:40

guys? They were totally pooping

0:43

in their pants? Yeah, give them, give

0:45

me another too, don't mess with me.

0:47

So, uh yeah, I don't

0:50

have the impression that the captain, I don't know if we said

0:52

his name or not yet, Edward Smith, um

0:55

his name. I don't know that he what he

0:57

certainly doesn't in retrospect have a uh

1:02

sterling reputation. No, no, I was gonna

1:04

say, he doesn't have a reputation that

1:06

is um like that of a maverick

1:09

necessarily, like I think, have a sterling

1:11

reputation at least exactly

1:14

like he was. I saw in a I think a

1:16

PBS documentary that that like

1:19

captains like this at the time were likened

1:21

to rock stars of today,

1:23

like they had their own

1:25

fans, and like it was a like you knew

1:27

what captain you were sailing with, and it was a big

1:29

deal. And he was one of the most

1:31

famous and well well respected,

1:34

if not revered as far as

1:36

the captains go. But over time,

1:40

yeah, exactly like stooping. But

1:42

over time, um,

1:45

because of like the inquiries and the desire

1:47

to place blame and define like simple answers

1:49

and compartmentalize everything, he's

1:51

been um kind

1:54

of painted with inaccurate brush

1:56

that loses a lot of nuance. And one of the ways

1:58

that he has been missle able that

2:01

makes him seem like a maverick is

2:03

that he was going full speed ahead,

2:05

trying to break speed records, wanted

2:08

to get there as fast as possible to show up

2:10

those Kunard jerks, And that seems

2:13

to just be not the case at all.

2:15

And in fact, yes, the Titanic was going

2:17

very fast. But according to a

2:20

m an Irish journalist who

2:22

has done a lot of research on this UH

2:25

scene in Maloney I believe is

2:27

their name, UH they

2:29

were going that fast because they were trying to they

2:32

were having to use up more coal to

2:34

keep that fire from spreading, and

2:36

that he didn't really have that much of a say

2:39

in how fast the thing was going because they had

2:42

to keep the coal fire under control. I'd

2:44

like to slow down. Are we still on fire? Or

2:48

we can't slow down there? But

2:50

that really kind of goes to show you. It's like

2:52

like really teaches you, like, oh, yeah,

2:54

we've lost a lot of like the details

2:57

here, or I shouldn't say that. Pop

2:59

Cole sure has lost a lot of the details.

3:01

There are plenty of people out there who know details

3:04

like that. Those are the people you should listen

3:06

to. Those are the people who we listened to.

3:08

So you can feel pretty comfortable listening to us

3:11

for the last episode in this one. Let's

3:13

begin now to alright, so

3:17

fast forward from April

3:19

eleven, when it sets sail to April fourteen.

3:22

We all know what happens over those three days. There's

3:25

some steamy love making in the back of

3:27

a car in the cargo hold, drawing

3:30

me like one of your French girls. Wasn't

3:34

that a good Kate Winslett, Yeah,

3:41

I thought you were doing Leo either

3:44

one would have been funny. Okay, there's

3:46

room for me on that door. That

3:50

was Leo. Yeah,

3:52

and she said no, there's not. Oh

3:55

man, we lost a bunch of listeners.

3:58

No, no, it shook. I mean, can

4:00

you joke about that? So it is the night

4:02

of April fourteenth, twelve. This is

4:04

the third day out. It is very cold.

4:07

The water is about twenty degrees fahrenheit

4:09

uh negative two point to celsius.

4:13

And around noon that day some things

4:15

started happening. They had this really

4:17

cool modern Marconi wireless system

4:20

where they could receive messages wirelessly,

4:23

and the operators on board started receiving

4:26

the first of at least what would be for messages

4:29

about ice and like a big, big ice

4:32

that's in the water. A second

4:34

one comes in at five thirty five from an

4:36

actual ship that said, hey,

4:39

icebergs nineteen miles north of

4:41

from right, you're headed right toward towards

4:44

these ice bergs, and

4:46

you know what they say, like they don't

4:48

look big on top, but

4:50

there could be serious trouble underneath. They really

4:52

fill out under water. I

4:55

don't think that's the thing. Uh.

4:57

In about an hour before the collision,

5:01

pm UH, the Californian which

5:04

was a nearby vessel, said hey,

5:06

we're stopped. We're surrounded by ice,

5:09

and the operator on the Titanic said, literally,

5:12

shut up, I am busy. I'm

5:14

working Cape Race, which apparently

5:17

was a relay station in Newfoundland, and

5:19

they were busy sending out messages for

5:21

the passengers. Yeah, the passengers could

5:24

pace about sixty five bucks

5:26

to send a Marconi Graham to basically

5:28

show off to their friends and family back home

5:30

that they were setting slow from

5:32

the middle of the ocean. Yeah, because the postcard

5:35

they sent was just in the mail room aboard

5:37

the same ship at the same time as them.

5:39

This this Marconi graham could go out immediately.

5:42

So the first class passengers

5:44

were sending out little hellos to

5:47

the tune of about two d and fifty of them,

5:49

I believe, just that day. So the

5:51

Marconi operators were very

5:53

much overworked, which is why he told the other one

5:55

to shut up. Apparently said it twice, said shut

5:58

up, shut up, exclamation

6:00

points too. So two hundred and fifty

6:03

first class passengers sent us just that

6:05

day. It's like there were only three hundred

6:07

and something first class aboard, so that was most of the first

6:09

class. Yeah, well, hopefully there wasn't

6:11

just like some obnoxious one that had sent out

6:13

like ten or twelve but who knows,

6:17

right, he was like, or send

6:19

another marcornograph about

6:22

Picasso. Yeah, so

6:25

um he uh he,

6:27

I was just thinking of Billy's ain again. Um,

6:30

the Marconi operators like the presence

6:32

of this, this Marconi wireless

6:34

thing on board was just as

6:37

cutting edges technology got at the time.

6:40

It was a text. Basically, there were so

6:42

few ships that had

6:44

wireless aboard that it was just it

6:46

was just nuts, which is why so many people were

6:49

sending Marconi grams

6:51

to show off. But at the same time,

6:53

the fact that there were these wireless radios

6:55

on some ships, including ships that were

6:57

in the area, means that the

7:00

Titanic did have warning that there

7:02

was an ice flow like in

7:04

between them in New York, and

7:06

they started, you know, like you were saying, they were

7:08

receiving warnings about

7:10

the icebergs and ice flows. And

7:12

again Captain Smith is depicted

7:15

as having ignored this and just

7:18

heedlessly headed on full steam ahead

7:20

into an ice field, even though he had been warned

7:22

against it. And from what I saw, um,

7:26

this is again a mischaracterization because

7:28

he didn't receive any warnings that

7:32

that would warrant slowing down

7:34

or changing course or anything like that. He

7:36

knew that there are icebergs. It's just kind

7:38

of like if somebody was saying, there's an iceberg

7:41

twenty miles ahead of your your projected

7:43

course, you know, heads up, he'd

7:45

be like, okay, good to know, but that wouldn't

7:48

require you to do anything about it.

7:50

But there was one, the very faithful

7:52

one that really may have sealed the fate of everybody

7:55

aboard the Titanic. And that was

7:57

that last one that um came

7:59

in at eleven forty that said we're stopped

8:01

and surrounded by ice That apparently

8:04

did not make it to the

8:06

captain as far as I know. Yeah,

8:09

so like the

8:12

deal, You're right, the deal was is

8:14

is. Icebergs were very

8:16

common. It wasn't like, oh

8:18

my god, there are icebergs, we gotta

8:20

stop everybody like they were used

8:22

to dealing with icebergs. It was just

8:25

a heads up. And that that last

8:27

one may have been a big difference maker.

8:29

Right, So, um, they knew

8:31

that they are icebergs, um, but

8:34

there was nothing to be worried about as far as they

8:36

could tell. Uh. And when when Captain

8:39

Smith handed over command of the

8:41

ship for the night to um.

8:44

I think, uh, Charles

8:46

second officer, Charles Lightholer. So

8:49

when he handed it over Lightholer he said, hey,

8:51

um, if conditions become hazy,

8:53

let me know and we'll you know, we'll slow down,

8:56

but until then, full speed ahead.

8:58

And it turns out that the night of April fourteenth,

9:01

nine twelve, in the area of the North Atlantic

9:03

was incredibly calm. The

9:06

sea was like glass. Um,

9:08

it wasn't hazy at all. It was totally clear,

9:11

and there was no moon and lots of

9:13

stars, so they couldn't see very

9:15

far because there wasn't much light. They

9:17

didn't have binoculars in the lookout.

9:20

Um. But also because the sea

9:22

was calm, there were no waves to

9:25

um give out any telltale characteristics

9:28

of breaking against iceberg's. It

9:30

was just nothing but clear water everywhere

9:32

they could see. So there was not a lot

9:35

of chance of them spotting icebergs

9:37

under the conditions that they were dealing with.

9:40

So, speaking of the moon, did you ever hear that theory

9:42

about how the moon could have impacted the

9:45

fact that the iceberg was where it was? There

9:49

was apparently on January four,

9:51

a few months before the Titanic. The

9:54

Moon made its closest approach

9:56

to Earth in about four hundred years, which

9:59

a so coincided within six minutes

10:01

of a spring tide, which is

10:04

the semi monthly alignment of the Sun and the Moon with

10:06

the Earth. And basically

10:08

all of this ends up in especially high tides

10:11

entitle currents, and

10:14

this was a really big year for icebergs. There

10:16

were about double the amount of icebergs

10:18

than average. And what usually

10:21

happens is when they kind of calve

10:23

off from where they start, they

10:25

end up getting kind of hung up um

10:27

when it gets into sort of shallower lanes,

10:30

and that almost always happens. It kind of keeps them

10:32

in place. But because of this strong

10:34

spring tide, it may have like

10:37

sent more icebergs out to see than normal.

10:40

That's nuts, man. Yeah, And

10:42

you know, again it's one of these things that other people

10:44

are like, you know, everyone's

10:46

trying to find these retroactive things

10:49

to blame. But I think it all kind of adds up

10:51

when you start looking at sort of the sliding

10:53

doors theory of of fate, that

10:56

it all sort of ended up impacting what

10:58

happened that night. Yeah, and I think it's another

11:00

reason why people are so engrossed by it because

11:03

again, it's like it just seems almost preordained.

11:06

Yeah, and that is very often

11:08

traced back to this hubris that um

11:11

kind of infested the whole

11:13

origin and an idea of the Titanic,

11:16

um that it was unsinkable and that it

11:19

was just the biggest thing ever made. We're going

11:21

to send it out as fast as we want. Um.

11:23

That that is that that just seems

11:26

like they were sailing into fate

11:28

just from those things. You know. Yeah,

11:31

I mean it's it is like a Hollywood script

11:33

or something, but you know, it really happened.

11:35

I know, somebody should make a movie out of him,

11:39

so and get someone else to write

11:41

it. Um oh

11:44

Man. Eight hours long, Frederick

11:47

Fleet and Reginald Lee were in the crow's

11:49

nest, and I think Fleet is the one

11:52

that later said that binoculars could have really

11:54

helped, because Fleet

11:56

was the one who was close to the end of the

11:58

shift when he saw this iceberg.

12:01

He sounds an alarm down to the

12:03

bridge and First Officer William Murdoch

12:05

was up there in about thirty seven seconds said

12:08

stop the engines, go full speed astern,

12:10

which was very common maneuver to

12:13

sort of try and dodge something if you're in a big

12:15

ship like that. And

12:17

you know this again in retrospect,

12:19

this was not a great idea. Uh

12:23

they Some people posit that if it had

12:25

just gone straight and hit this thing

12:27

head on, it might not have sunk,

12:29

but it ended up turning just enough

12:32

to hit a very and especially when

12:34

you factor in that fire, if that actually

12:36

was a thing that weakened

12:38

it, it hit the whole at

12:40

a very vulnerable spot, possibly

12:43

it's most vulnerable spot because of

12:45

that fire. But also even had that fire not

12:47

been there, it was like that was the

12:49

Achilles heel of the

12:51

the Titanic that area. And

12:54

you know, it's tough to to fault

12:57

Murdoch for, you know, trying to

12:59

spin away for it, but it was it

13:01

was well, it isn't except or it was an accepted

13:04

technique to also just ram

13:06

Iceberg head on um.

13:08

But the reason Murdoch chose, probably why

13:11

he chose not to do that, was because

13:13

if you did that head on, you're gonna send everything

13:15

and everybody lurching forward, because

13:18

it's a head on collision. Um.

13:21

When you side swipe something, that's

13:24

much less jarring. And in fact, the

13:26

passengers who did survive. The Titanic

13:29

later said that there was a

13:31

slight jar when this thing hit

13:33

the iceberg. Um so much

13:35

so that I think a passenger said, had

13:37

he been holding a full glass of water, not

13:39

a drop would have been spilled. So

13:42

he did it I think out of instinct, because nobody

13:44

wants to hit anything head on. But I think he also did

13:46

it to spare the passengers

13:48

and the crew and the cargo being jostled

13:51

and jarred as rudely as they would

13:53

have been had they hit it head on. Yeah.

13:56

And this is where those rivets come into

13:58

play as well, because it

14:00

is theorized that because those rivets didn't

14:02

hold like they should, uh, it ended

14:05

up buckling the ship right there. And

14:07

apparently it's that buckling that really sort

14:09

of uh put the nail

14:11

in the coffin for the Titanic. Yeah,

14:14

like it might have survived the gouges

14:16

had it not been for the buckling. Apparently. Yeah.

14:19

Um so the I guess

14:21

the buckling kind of pulled the rivets or

14:23

the seams apart, and that allowed the water

14:26

in. Is that the idea behind it? I

14:28

think so, because you know they started Murdoch,

14:30

you know, said let's get all these watertight door shut,

14:33

which was a really really great move, but

14:36

it was too late and they were there

14:38

were five of them that were filling up.

14:41

They originally thought. You know, Captain Smith

14:43

was like, there, you know, there must be a three foot hole in this

14:45

thing. Uh. And I saw a couple

14:48

of different numbers. This article from how Stuff

14:50

Works says three point two

14:52

square feet for these six

14:54

slim lacerations on the boat, I saw about

14:57

twelve square feet. Yeah,

15:00

I mean I saw I like into about two sidewalk squares.

15:02

Um, like that took down the titan

15:05

Now can you imagine? And that nuts

15:07

Like of course you would think Captain Smith

15:09

would be like, it's got to be a three ft

15:11

gash just to have that kind of water, And

15:13

he wouldn't know. It's not like he could see, like this

15:16

was beneath the water. It struck

15:18

the iceberg underwater. Um,

15:21

so it was just an estimate. But yeah, now

15:23

we know from from going down and looking

15:25

at the Titanic, uh, using

15:27

sonar, just how small

15:29

they were. So just a couple of sidewalk

15:31

squares. Huh. Yeah. And

15:33

you know, the the really brutal part is Andrew's

15:36

kind of just like in the movie Victor Garber.

15:39

Once he got worded that there were five of those

15:42

cavities filling up with water, he was like,

15:45

that's it, man, Like we

15:47

could have survived four. But and

15:49

I know it doesn't seem like it right now, but this ship

15:52

is going to go down. Yeah. So I mean,

15:54

you remember, I think in the first one we said that the

15:56

thing was designed to be just fine

15:58

with two and that four

16:00

it could probably make it, but

16:03

five was the magic number. With five,

16:05

it was like, this is this is not going to end

16:07

well at all. And even with

16:09

four compartments full and sealed

16:12

off, there's a good possibility

16:14

that the Titanic would have sunk, but

16:17

it might have taken so long

16:19

to sink that all

16:21

of the everybody aboard would have easily

16:23

made their way off. But

16:26

that five, that fifth compartment

16:28

was just it was just

16:30

terrible, um because not

16:33

only was the Titanic doom

16:35

to sink, it was doomed to sink very very

16:37

fast. I think Andrew's estimated

16:39

two hours basically when he found

16:41

out how many compartments were filling. Yeah,

16:44

it was really the speed. And if you're saying to

16:46

yourself, but Josh, how can you say that when they

16:48

were short lifeboats. As we'll see,

16:50

there were other ships nearby

16:52

that that that likely

16:54

would have gotten there quicker, or not gotten there

16:56

quicker, but gotten there quick enough had

16:59

it sunk lower to get people off

17:01

of that thing. Yeah, um,

17:04

take a break, Yeah, I think so

17:06

I could use one, buddy. All

17:08

right, let's take a break and we'll talk about

17:10

what happened after that chunk of ice

17:13

fell near Caton Leo right after this. So,

17:46

um, when when Thomas

17:48

Andrews explained to Captain Smith, like, this is

17:50

going down and it's going to happen in about

17:52

two hours. Um, Smith

17:55

basically gathered his crew and said, hey, this

17:57

is you know, the ship is sinking. We

17:59

need to get everybody to the lifeboats.

18:02

Um. He started, he started

18:04

lowering the lifeboats. But apparently, from

18:06

from what I've read aboard the Titanic,

18:09

you wouldn't have known that that the ship

18:11

was sinking based on the

18:14

activity and the behavior of everyone aboard.

18:17

Yeah, most people were kind of

18:19

going about like their business, hanging

18:21

out in the lounge, still sleeping,

18:24

Um, getting ready to go to bed. Because

18:27

this is I think around eleven or

18:29

so when when it struck the iceberg, and

18:31

like I said, it was such a faint jar that

18:34

I think people couldn't believe that the Titanic

18:36

would be taken down by something that only

18:38

produced that that faint of a jar

18:41

um. And so a lot of people just kind of

18:43

acted like nothing was wrong. Yeah,

18:46

I mean, crew included, I think it was. I

18:50

think when the message went out from the captain,

18:53

there was a lot of disbelief all the way around,

18:56

right like, surely if we

18:58

hit an iceberg bad enough to sink it, we

19:01

would it would be you know, it

19:03

would be evident, like just standing here

19:05

like, but that's just not the case. And you know,

19:08

because it was so large, uh

19:10

you know, like you said, you wouldn't even spill a glass

19:12

of water. So no one except Leo and Kate

19:14

they saw that chunk of ice fall. Yeah,

19:18

oh yeah, they I forgot. They were witnesses

19:21

to it. They knew what was going on. I forgot about

19:23

that. Yeah, they were out there, King and Queen of the world.

19:26

All right, So ulf the

19:29

captain is sending out messages

19:31

and I mentioned that ship nearby. There were a couple

19:33

but the Carpathia was

19:35

a Cunard Line steamer, and

19:38

they were like, oh, you need help, do you

19:42

back. No, they acted

19:44

fast, of course, but they were about fifty eight miles

19:46

away and they knew.

19:48

They're like, there's no way we can get there in time. No,

19:51

especially not if it's going to sink in a couple of

19:53

hours. But again, had you know, even

19:55

just the only four compartments not

19:58

flooded, the Carpathia probably could have made

20:00

it there in plenty of time. But there

20:02

was actually, Chuck another ship, though, the

20:04

Californian, that was closer to the Titanic,

20:07

and as we'll see in the

20:09

inquiry that followed, it's

20:11

basically the Carpathia hero California

20:14

villain. The Californian was um

20:16

accused of basically refusing

20:19

to render aid, and that just wasn't

20:22

the case. Um, there was

20:24

a mystery ship that very much

20:26

did refuse to render aid and just pretended

20:28

like it didn't see what was going on. But

20:31

yeah, it was actually a ship

20:34

called the Mount Temple that was keptain

20:36

by a man named James Moore,

20:39

Captain James Moore. That was

20:41

I believe, within ten miles

20:43

of the Titanic the entire time that

20:46

some passengers and crew uh

20:49

later said they could see the lights, they could

20:51

hear the lifeboats being lowered. They could hear

20:53

the cries of people in the in

20:56

the water, and that survivors

20:58

said they saw another ship. They there was

21:00

close enough that they could see some of the porthole

21:03

lights, like that's how close

21:05

it was, and that it just sat there, wouldn't

21:07

come And it was because the captain

21:09

made the decision that that he wasn't gonna

21:12

risk go anyto the ice ice flows. Well,

21:14

he also didn't come forward and say, yeah, that was

21:16

me. He let um the

21:18

captain of the Californian, Stanley

21:21

Lord take the take the blame.

21:23

And Stanley Lord went to his grave basically

21:25

a disgraced captain, even

21:27

though he would be vindicated when

21:29

they finally found the Titanic

21:32

and said, oh wait, you were way far

21:34

away. And also more to the point,

21:36

you didn't realize that the Titanic was in

21:39

distress. So history has

21:41

rehabilitated a lot of people. But

21:43

at the time, and for many many years, you

21:46

know, we like simple stories where there's a hero and

21:48

a villain, and the Carpathio was the hero

21:50

in the Californian was the villain. That's

21:53

right, good story, I think

21:55

so too. So they're giving out these

21:57

life jackets, uh, made of or

22:00

plenty of those, and they

22:03

I think there was room for eleven seventy

22:06

six passengers on lifeboats

22:08

if they're all full. Uh. There

22:10

were about two d and change

22:13

of passengers and crew aboard. So

22:15

at am, the captain says, start

22:18

lowering these things. Let's

22:20

get those first class passengers in there first.

22:23

I think there were fourteen of the lifeboats, were the big

22:25

daddies that could carry sixty five people. Uh.

22:28

There were I think two emergency

22:31

ones that could carry thirty five each, and

22:33

then four collapsible boats that could carry

22:35

forty nine people each. And

22:38

uh, I see different numbers bandied

22:40

about, but supposedly that first

22:42

lifeboat uh, and maybe the first

22:45

few were not full. And I think that first

22:47

one only had anywhere from five

22:49

to eight people out of

22:51

sixty five. Yeah, mostly because

22:53

there are a lot of people aboard who were like, I

22:55

don't believe the Titanic is sinking, and

22:58

that getting in that life seems

23:00

way more dangerous to me than staying more

23:02

than nice, warm, toasty Titanic where

23:04

there's lots of brandy to be had. Um.

23:08

And that's why some of those first lifeboats,

23:10

That's what I was saying like it was apparently

23:12

eerily calm and quiet and

23:15

not at all chaotic. And then

23:17

when it finally became apparent

23:20

that, yeah, the ship was sinking and

23:22

no, there's not enough lifeboats to save everybody,

23:25

that's when it became rather chaotic.

23:28

And then suddenly people were not only

23:30

getting into lifeboats until the capacity

23:32

was full, they were like jumping into

23:34

lifeboats that were being lowered and injuring

23:36

people already in there. Like it it

23:38

became kind of pan ammonium all of a sudden.

23:42

Yeah, like when your drink was sliding off

23:44

the bar. Then it got real, you

23:46

know, that's right. So, uh,

23:48

first and class, I'm sorry,

23:50

First and second class passengers are being uh

23:53

going up to the highest deck, which is where

23:55

these lifeboats are. They just

23:58

like in the movie, the third class passengers

24:00

were you know, kind of locked down there

24:02

for the time being because they were waiting

24:05

to get other people out of the way and then

24:07

they were going to let them out. Uh,

24:09

And that that John Hart, third class

24:11

Stewart. John Hart basically

24:13

was like you, a lot of you people haven't

24:15

even been out of third class, so you don't

24:17

even know where to go. So John Hard

24:19

spent a lot of time directing people to

24:22

the proper route to get them to safety or

24:24

at least an attempt at safety. Yeah. I

24:26

mean there were a lot of like, um stories

24:29

of heroics, of everyday heroics

24:31

of people who were just like, you know, this is

24:33

my job. I'm gonna die doing my job trying

24:36

to make you know, people as safe as

24:38

possible. Um, And that that's

24:40

that's a John Hart's a very good example

24:43

of that totally. UM.

24:45

So, the first officer Murdoch

24:47

and second officer Lighthowler um

24:49

were in charge of overseeing

24:52

the lifeboats on the port side and the starboard

24:55

side, UM, and they kind

24:57

of approached it differently. I believe

24:59

Murdoch was basically like, hey, you're

25:01

breathing, get in a lifeboat, or you're just gonna

25:04

try to get as many people out of here as possible,

25:07

whereas light Aller was like, if

25:09

you're a woman or a child, come on, but if

25:11

you're a man, I'm going to shoot my gun

25:13

in the air. Because by the way, all of the

25:16

officers who were in charge of overseeing lifeboats

25:18

were issued pistols basically keep

25:20

people in line and in worst case scenario,

25:23

shoot people who tried to get aboard

25:25

lifeboats that otherwise shouldn't have been um

25:28

and I think light aller shot

25:31

or no, not a light aller. I think one

25:33

of the um the fourth or the fifth

25:35

officer had to fire his gun in the air

25:37

to basically like get people to come back to their

25:39

senses because they were like men were

25:41

starting to try to push aboard lifeboats while

25:44

women, Yeah, exactly, while

25:46

women and children were still there. So

25:49

again it was it was nice and calm,

25:52

and everybody was, you know, following the

25:54

order of women and children first. And then you

25:56

know that that kind of started to crumble.

25:59

Um in place. It's not everywhere, but in some

26:01

places. Billy's ainet grabbed a kid.

26:04

I have a child, remember

26:07

that? Yeah? Yeah, and that was

26:09

in another movie I saw recently.

26:12

What Billy Jane or Billy's Ain't stealing

26:14

a kid to get in the lifeboat. No, I'm trying

26:16

to think there was another movie that was

26:18

made recently where this

26:21

couple that's like a kind of a post

26:23

apocalyptic thing or something's going This

26:26

isn't gonna be interesting. I'll try to

26:28

figure it out and tell you later. But somebody

26:30

else did the same thing, grabbed a kid and used a

26:32

kid. Yeah, and you don't realize it

26:34

until about two thirds of the way through the movie,

26:36

and then you're like, oh my god, Like that's

26:39

it's it was really well done. But I

26:41

didn't realize that they'd stolen that from Titanic.

26:44

All right, well, let me let me know. Uh,

26:46

so the band really did play on that's

26:50

that movie scene is straight out of reality, apparently,

26:52

right down to the song. I think, um, they say

26:55

the last song was either Autumn or Nearer

26:57

My God to the and I think near my God

27:00

is the one they played in the movie. Very

27:02

you know, say what you want about the movie.

27:05

That was. There were some really really gripping

27:07

scenes in the second half of that film,

27:09

and that was one of them. Uh. The other one that really

27:11

always got me was uh.

27:13

And and this is kind of the point where we are

27:15

now with how this thing actually sank. Um,

27:19

when Cathy Bates is as Molly Brown is

27:21

in that lifeboat and sees that

27:24

those propellers up in the air, Uh,

27:28

it was pretty remarkable. Yeah,

27:31

the the that those lacerations

27:33

in the hole they took on um

27:36

like water towards the bow,

27:39

So the front of the ship was

27:42

suddenly much heavier than the back of

27:44

the ship, and the ship

27:46

was built so strongly even with those

27:48

sub sub standard rivets, the

27:50

wrought iron ones, that the

27:52

it didn't just break immediately, that it actually

27:55

lifted up the rear and

27:57

the propellers became became

28:00

um visible first, and

28:02

then it kept going higher and higher and higher, and

28:04

then the pressure on those

28:07

on the plates that were that whole held the whole

28:09

thing together became so enormous

28:12

that it was something like seventeen and a

28:14

half tons of pressure

28:16

per square inch. That's

28:19

how much pressure was being exerted on

28:22

the basically the halfway point

28:24

where where the where the where the

28:26

Titanic split in two. And

28:29

finally it did split in two, but it didn't

28:31

break into two immediately. The

28:34

bottom of the whole, the um

28:37

that connected the front of the back still

28:39

hung on and it almost became like a hinge.

28:42

And so the whole bow went

28:45

under water, but just dangled

28:47

there for a little while until it finally filled

28:49

up. And at one point the stern,

28:51

the back half of the ship was

28:54

straight up in the air basically and

28:56

was about as tall as the twenty five story

28:58

building. Imagine

29:00

being a lift and seeing that I can't

29:03

I cannot like, I can't like all

29:05

of this, all of these things that you're seeing. You're like,

29:07

this shouldn't be happening. None of this should

29:10

it be, should exist right now? And

29:12

it was, and it was all still it was going pretty

29:14

fast too. I mean like they launched the

29:16

first lifeboats about two

29:18

hours before. The stern was now

29:21

suddenly like twenty five stories into

29:23

the air. Finally the bow

29:25

part fills up with enough water that it breaks

29:27

off and it it was so

29:30

heavy that it traveled the about

29:32

two point four miles down to

29:34

the sea floor or the Titanic rest

29:36

today, in like six minutes.

29:39

That's how fast it traveled down there,

29:41

and just hit like a

29:43

like a missile, basically it hit

29:45

the sea floor. Yeah, and you know,

29:48

obviously this is when they

29:50

start losing like remarkably they had electricity,

29:53

uh and even I think um

29:57

radio that Marconi was still

29:59

working for a while. But obviously when

30:01

this thing s puts in half, that's when these flickering lights

30:03

even go out. And that was also

30:05

a very you know, pretty

30:07

emotional part in the movie, when it goes quiet,

30:10

when you know there's so much chaos going

30:12

on, and when those lights go

30:14

out in the boat is Finally,

30:17

you know, when both halves fully go underwater,

30:21

then you're just left with screaming human

30:23

beings. Yeah, there was a survivor

30:26

who said that it sounded to him like the

30:28

sound of all the people crying and screaming

30:30

and yelling for help in the water, that

30:32

it sounded like the sound of Cicada's

30:34

on like a summer night. It was just that

30:37

kind of frenetic and and all encompassing.

30:40

But then I saw another survivor who said

30:42

that the worst part was when those

30:44

when it started to like fall silent, when

30:46

they were like fewer and fewer people yelling, because you

30:49

knew that the people who'd just been yelling a few minutes before,

30:51

we're now dead. They'd frozen

30:53

to death. Apparently, the

30:54

the temperature of the water was so

30:57

cold that you would lose consciousness in about

30:59

six to twelve minut It's basically yeah,

31:02

and you know, we've been joking around and stuff. I

31:04

think that the adage comedy is tragedy

31:06

plus time. Uh,

31:08

you can apply here, but we do

31:10

not take any of this slightly. It's at

31:13

this point it is one of the most horrific scenes

31:15

that anybody could ever imagine being a part of

31:17

absolutely, which is again why

31:20

why so many people celebrate Molly Brown.

31:22

Um, Because there were so many people out in the

31:24

water still with those cork life jackets.

31:27

Um. The guy who

31:30

I think the quartermaster Robert Hitchens,

31:32

who was basically the captain of the

31:35

lifeboat that Molly Brown happened to be

31:37

in, refused to go try

31:39

to pick up survivors who might be in the

31:41

water. He said, they're all dead and

31:43

she's She threatened apparently to throw him

31:45

overboard if he didn't go find

31:47

people. And what was amazing is that

31:50

some people did actually survive.

31:53

Um. The chief baker, his name

31:55

was Charles Jofflin or

31:57

j Offen. He survived paddling

32:00

around for two hours, two

32:02

hours, and then he finally found a capsized

32:05

lifeboat and clung to that climbed

32:07

aboard that, and some people did survive like that.

32:09

But but um, but he he was in the

32:12

water for a couple of hours, and weirdly

32:14

they attributed to him getting drunk before

32:17

he went in the water. But this was

32:19

apparently after he had helped

32:21

save a bunch of people. The first thing he did is he went

32:23

and stocked as many lifeboats as he could with

32:26

bread, and provisions. Um.

32:28

Then he started actually physically throwing

32:31

women who refused to get into lifeboats into

32:33

the lifeboats. And then after

32:36

there was no one left to help, he went and started drinking.

32:39

For some reason, they think that that kept

32:41

him alive, where otherwise he

32:43

might not have just maybe by

32:46

freaking out, like it kept him from freaking

32:48

out. Yeah, well warmed

32:50

him up to maybe. I don't know, No, I

32:52

think it's supposed to do the opposite of that opposite.

32:55

Yeah, like, don't take that advice, don't

32:58

drink choke. There's another story

33:00

I saw talking about the sound of the um,

33:03

like the people who were crying out.

33:05

Um. There was a young survivor,

33:08

I think he was like nine or ten or twelve, um.

33:11

And he later on they moved, his

33:13

family was moving to America, and

33:16

he found out the hard way that he couldn't go to

33:18

baseball games because the sound of

33:20

the cheering crowd took him right

33:22

back to the sounds of the people crying for

33:24

help the Titanic. And he

33:26

just wanted to love baseball but

33:28

absolutely couldn't because because

33:30

of that. Basically, he had PTSD. Basically,

33:34

yeah, that's very sad, But

33:37

let's take our last break here and

33:39

we'll talk about what happened after to am,

33:42

after the Titanic made its way to the

33:44

bottom of the ocean. All

34:16

right, so the Titanic is underwater

34:19

at this point. It is chaos

34:21

and death and despair everywhere

34:24

you can see. The Carpathia

34:26

finally arrives at about four thirty am on

34:29

April and

34:31

you know, these lifeboats were adrift. They

34:33

had no compasses, no lights, they

34:36

were freezing. Uh,

34:38

they were I think the Carpathia recovered

34:41

fourteen boats and seven and twelve people,

34:43

which is remarkable. One

34:45

of those people, only one of those I think died

34:48

on routes in New York. And

34:50

uh, you know, the world starts getting word that the

34:53

Mighty Titanic has sunk, and

34:55

it's you know, it's front page news

34:57

all over the world. Basically. Yeah, when the our

35:00

Pathea finally made port in New York, it was

35:02

surrounded by um smaller

35:04

boats that have been rented by the press

35:07

who were trying to get scoops by shouting

35:09

up to people aboard

35:12

asking for quotes and and all that. Like,

35:15

there was a gobs of

35:17

money thrown at people by journalists to try

35:19

to get their story because there. This is

35:21

as international news as

35:24

as news gets. Yeah.

35:26

So apparently the Californian looked

35:28

for bodies and did not find any

35:31

may not have accounted for the drift, and

35:35

you know, may have been looking sort of in the wrong place. And

35:37

White Star said, as

35:40

you would say, nuts to that, let's send out

35:42

a bunch of search vessels to see what we can do.

35:44

And I think they knew at that point they were not going to find

35:47

anyone alive, but they were at least trying to recover

35:49

bodies. And they sent out a

35:51

few boats and one of them found three hundred

35:53

and six bodies, one found

35:56

fifteen and one, and then

35:58

another couple found four people in one

36:00

person uh. And again

36:02

all these people died in the most tragic

36:04

way you could imagine. They were water logged,

36:07

They were so heavy that it took several people

36:09

to lift them aboard. The

36:11

first class passengers were put in coffins.

36:14

They were embalmed. Um, this

36:17

is really gruesome, but sometimes

36:20

they had to break their frozen limbs just

36:22

to fit them inside. It was um.

36:25

It was sort of no time for the formalities

36:28

of burial. It seems like

36:30

it was a mass casualty scene and

36:33

so they were just kind of doing what they could. I think.

36:35

Yeah, some of the crew was actually buried

36:37

at sea, which I

36:40

I would be like, I don't bury me at see.

36:42

That sounds like the opposite of okay

36:44

to me, right, I've

36:46

never been okay with burial. Let's see. Okay, you're

36:50

telling me that. I'm just going on the

36:52

record in case we ever go on

36:54

a cruise together. Yeah, all right. So

36:56

the US kind of like really insinuated

36:59

it's self into this tragedy, umque

37:03

to a questionable degree in some people's

37:06

minds at the time. You know, the Titanic

37:08

was a British ship, the White star Line was a

37:10

British company, um. And

37:13

yet the US held public inquiries.

37:15

The Senate did um on the

37:17

Titanic tragedy before

37:19

the Brits could even do it, because

37:22

they they started this inquiry

37:24

I think one or two days after

37:27

the Carpathia made port. That's

37:30

how quick these the The inquiry

37:32

was launched by the U. S Senate UM.

37:34

And so all of these people who were subpoenaed

37:37

as witnesses before they could leave New York,

37:39

um had to stay and give their testimony

37:42

before they could go back to England. So the

37:44

British had to wait to hold their public

37:47

inquiry until the American

37:49

one was over, which I think kind of chafed

37:52

everybody a little bit. But between the

37:54

British inquiry and the American

37:56

inquiry, they both basically reached

37:58

the same conclusions, and they

38:00

were threefold lifeboats,

38:03

lifeboats and lifeboats.

38:06

Yeah, and and not just the amount

38:08

like kind of the stuff we've already been over. Like there was

38:10

no system, it seems like, and

38:12

this is all because it's true. It seemed like no one knew

38:14

how to load these things. It seemed like there

38:16

was a lot of indecision about

38:19

where you actually do the loading. There

38:21

were a lot of opinions flying about about who

38:24

should be loaded, about

38:26

how many crew members you need on these lifeboats,

38:29

and there was just there was no direction at

38:31

all. There was no uniformity and

38:33

there was no plan. And that's like

38:36

we mentioned at the beginning, because so many of these

38:38

crew members just kind of showed

38:40

up at the last minute and they didn't

38:42

even have training and how to do this. Yeah.

38:44

And like we said, the Californian was vilified.

38:47

Um. That was another thing. Um.

38:50

But the they it was you know, even

38:52

at the time it was explained by the California's

38:55

captain, like, look, the wireless operator went

38:57

to bed. He didn't hear these distress signals.

38:59

Yes, they were shooting off rockets, but we thought

39:01

it was another boat that was mainly doing it to

39:04

navigate through the ice. Like it didn't seem

39:06

like a distressed thing to us. Um.

39:08

And again history has kind of exonerated

39:11

him, but at the time he was not very

39:13

well thought of. Neither was J. Bruce

39:16

is May, who survived because

39:19

he got in a lifeboat. He

39:21

was vilified as a coward who didn't go down

39:23

with his own ship. Um. He was

39:26

painted as um having dressed

39:28

up as a woman to get a board, like just basically

39:30

anything you can think of that's despicable.

39:33

He was described as having done to get

39:35

a board of lifeboat to save his own skin. Um.

39:38

The only way that he could have had any

39:40

honor dignity is if he had like willingly

39:43

died with the ship. He didn't do

39:45

that, And supposedly in retrospect

39:48

he was probably unfairly characterized.

39:51

Uh. He went to his grave saying that he Um

39:55

there was no women or children anywhere near

39:57

where he was, Like, they were not around,

40:00

and he decided to get into a lifeboat that had

40:02

space. Um, but even still,

40:04

like he's just considered this despicable

40:07

figure because of this kind of historical

40:09

trend that was initiated during the

40:12

public inquiries. Yeah, and

40:14

of course Andrews the designer, uh

40:16

and Captain Smith, you know, as

40:18

in the movie you see them both go down with the ship. And

40:21

that another very impactful

40:23

emotional scene with Victor Garber. I think

40:25

doesn't need like set the time correctly

40:27

on a clock or something like.

40:29

I know, I think he went and rearranged the deck

40:31

furniture, the wicker chairs.

40:34

No he didn't. I think he

40:36

said the clock. Right, He's just such a cliche,

40:39

he said, he said the clock chair. And

40:41

and you know this is as things are sliding off tables.

40:43

And uh,

40:46

it's a good movie now that I'm talking about it, I kind of want

40:48

to watch it again, all right. Um.

40:50

There were other people that were hailed as heroes. The

40:52

Captain of the Carpathia was knighted by

40:55

King George five for his actions

40:58

and saving people. The um

41:00

Marconi operators and the just the

41:02

Marconi operating or wireless

41:04

system in general was viewed

41:07

as heroes because had it not been for

41:09

those instant distress signals

41:11

that were sent over Marconi wireless.

41:13

Um, who knows how long those those

41:15

people would have been out there in lifeboats and how

41:17

many more would have died. So,

41:20

yeah, a lot of people could be saved, could

41:22

have been saved. I think the number I've seen

41:24

most widely used as five hundred.

41:26

Had the lifeboats been properly filled with

41:28

passengers, another five hundred people would

41:30

have survived. Um. But you also

41:33

have to say, well, how many people would have died had the Marconi

41:36

wireless not been in operation at the time

41:38

too, So Marconi himself is actually

41:40

hailed as a hero for having, you know,

41:42

come up with this this wireless even though

41:44

I don't think he invented the technology. Binocular

41:48

locker, maybe it doesn't need a lock, Yeah,

41:50

Davy Player was like, oh god,

41:53

I've got the key in my pocket,

41:55

right, maybe just put it in a in

41:57

the basket right there in the crow's nest,

42:00

or just taking in your cheek, you

42:02

know, locks,

42:04

you don't need a lock. Okay, Are they afraid

42:06

they're gonna people are gonna walk off with the binoculars?

42:09

Right? They well they did.

42:11

There were a lot of um, a lot of reforms

42:13

that came out of this. They they started um

42:15

launching ice patrols. Uh,

42:18

wireless operators started appearing

42:20

on ships far more prevalently,

42:22

and they were there were operators

42:25

sitting there around the clock to help with

42:27

distress signals. But I mean,

42:29

you know, and these probably saved thousands

42:31

and thousands of lives. But

42:34

because these things hadn't existed at the time

42:36

or were ignored, like the lifeboat regulations,

42:38

then uh, you know, a lot of people died

42:42

brutal um So Chuck.

42:44

The Titanic wasn't it went

42:46

down and was not discovered until five

42:49

I believe, right, Yeah,

42:51

I mean that's when things get really interesting. Uh.

42:55

I think anyone who had any even

42:57

passing interest in the Titanic is marveled

43:00

for years. Like we were talking about an episode one

43:02

about these images and especially

43:05

you know, the way these things are

43:07

lit with these little sort of you

43:09

know, these little swimming robots

43:11

and their flashlights in the dark down there.

43:14

It adds this eerequality to it with

43:16

the suspended debris, and

43:19

how easily this thing, you know, would would

43:21

kind of come apart if it was knocked against or

43:23

something. Just really stunning,

43:26

stunning footage and that's I think what like

43:29

drove James Cameron, he got really into it.

43:31

Oh yeah. Um. The guy

43:33

who discovered the Titanic was Dr Robert

43:36

Ballard Um and he

43:38

I saw a talk by him where he

43:40

was talking about one of those early ones where they were using

43:42

one of their UM remote vehicles

43:45

with equipped with like a spotlight

43:47

on it, and he said in from the inside,

43:50

the gloom of the Titanic looked

43:52

like a light came on, he said,

43:54

He and the rest of his crew on the vessel

43:56

aboard or uh on on

43:58

the surface just like stopped breathing,

44:01

Like there was the eerious thing you'd ever seen. And

44:03

he realized that the searchlight

44:06

had just was reflecting off of one of Titanic

44:09

chandeliers that was still hanging there.

44:11

I can't imagine what that sensation

44:14

would have been like just terror, but

44:16

also just total awe.

44:18

You know. So

44:20

the Titanic is falling apart thanks

44:23

to a kind of iron loving

44:25

bacteria I believe called hal

44:29

amonas Titanic A. Yeah,

44:33

I think that's right, right, surely

44:35

that's on purpose. Yeah, yeah,

44:38

they I think they discovered it from evaluating

44:40

the Titanic, right, Okay.

44:43

Um, And so they're there

44:45

there. They basically don't think it's going

44:47

to be around much longer. But Dr

44:49

Ballard just saying, no, no, we can, we

44:52

can do something with this. There's actually underwater

44:54

technology that uses epoxy paint where

44:57

you can paint underwater. And he

44:59

has a proposal to save the Titanic

45:01

by painting it and turning it

45:03

into an underwater museum. Because

45:06

outside um

45:08

outside in the debris field like um,

45:11

bodies were you know, dissolved and

45:13

eaten within a very short amount

45:15

of time. But there's still plenty of objects

45:17

that are still there. Inside the Titanic.

45:19

There's no currents, and a lot

45:22

of areas inside the Titanic

45:24

might be anaerobic, so it's quite possible

45:26

that there are bodies generally

45:28

preserved in there, and that a

45:30

lot of this like rooms and um

45:33

uh, different areas in the bowels

45:35

of the Titanic are still in relatively

45:38

good shape. So he's saying all

45:40

like, it's imperative that we keep the Titanic

45:42

from rupturing and opening

45:44

up and exposing its innards

45:46

to the currents and the oxygen

45:49

in the ocean um, and we can do

45:51

that by painting it. The outside

45:53

of it, So I'm really hoping

45:55

that he uh, he's successful in

45:57

that quest. Very cool. Yeah,

46:01

you got anything else? I got nothing

46:03

else. I got one more thing. We

46:05

could not talk about the Titanic without talking about

46:08

futility. The book

46:10

that was written by a guy named Morgan Robertson,

46:13

and it's about the biggest ship ever built,

46:15

the titan Uh

46:17

that is um headed

46:19

from Liverpool to or New York to

46:21

Liverpool when it encounters an iceberg

46:23

in the North Atlantic and sinks. And

46:26

like the description of the type, the titan

46:28

almost matches of Titanic even though

46:30

it was built fourteen or it was written fourteen

46:33

years before. Very

46:35

cool. We cover that on something else at some point. Didn't

46:38

we do an episode on coincidence once? I

46:41

don't know, because if so, I'll bet that was it.

46:45

Well, if you want to know more about the Titanic, have

46:48

a good rest of your life, because there's a lot

46:50

to learn. So go forth,

46:52

find your favorite Titanic based podcasts

46:56

or website and start there. And

46:58

since I said start there, it's time for finally

47:01

listener mail. You

47:04

know, instead of listener mail, let's do the old call

47:07

for reviews that we do once every five

47:10

years, all right, let's

47:12

do it. Um. Yeah, I didn't have a listener

47:14

mail ready, so you know, occasionally we like

47:16

to ask people for reviews and ratings on iTunes

47:18

because we were told ten

47:20

years ago that that helped. Yeah, I

47:23

mean I think it still does. Um. So if

47:25

you want to go onto Apple Podcasts or whether

47:28

you're on Spotify, wherever you are, there's probably

47:30

a way to leave a review. And if you can

47:32

leave us a nice review in a rating like yeah,

47:34

that's that definitely at the very least,

47:36

it boosts our spirits, right, that's

47:39

right. And also tell a friend.

47:41

I mean, we've we don't try to grow the show very

47:43

much, which is weird. We've never been great

47:45

at it yet somehow it happened. But we've

47:48

always counted on you guys to spread the words. So if

47:50

you could tell a friend or family member about

47:52

us, that would be wonderful. Yes, So,

47:54

I guess thanks to all of you leaving us

47:56

reviews and ratings, preferably good

47:59

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48:01

if you don't, thanks a lot for listening. We appreciate

48:03

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48:06

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48:08

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48:11

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48:13

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48:15

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48:24

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