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This

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is a global player original podcast.

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Welcome to Sweeney Tours. It's a podcast

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series where I get to interview people who've

0:12

done serious stuff with their lives

0:15

and then got into trouble. Big

0:17

trouble. I'm not here to lecture

0:19

them about that. I'm kind of a professor

0:21

of big troubleology myself. I've

0:23

got history with the church of Science,

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North Korea, Donald Trump, Vladimir

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Putin, Tommy Robinson, under

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Russian Army. I'm

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here to find out what it feels like

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to be in the deep doo doo, how

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you survive it, and then how the hell

0:42

you get out of it. If you've been

0:44

in trouble, you're not alone. So

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come along for the ride. You might

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learn some new tricks. You might have

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a laugh, but one thing is sure.

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The best stories aren't told by

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the well behaved. And

1:02

once listened to the interview, you can hear

1:04

what I really think about is in Sweeney

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keep stalking. Find that exclusively.

1:10

And global player. My

1:16

guess this week are the great enemies of gold's

1:18

gift to the dry cleaning industry, got in

1:21

bell. Neil and Christine Hamilton are

1:23

the right wing couple who wet Lady Dollar

1:25

Liberals like me love to hate.

1:27

In nineteen ninety seven, Neil Hamilton

1:30

was a Tory MP accused of corruption

1:32

by Mohammed Delphiud. Neil denied

1:34

it, but lost his massive majority to

1:36

the man in the white suit. Throughout it

1:38

all, Kristine not just stood by her

1:40

man, but went out of her way to clawber

1:42

his enemies. And one of those was

1:44

me. Out of power, hounded by the

1:46

media, Neil and Christine gone to

1:48

reinvent themselves and become part

1:51

of the mastermind of British political life.

1:53

They join Yukip. They fall out with Nigel

1:55

Farage. Neil's great line about Farage

1:57

as he wants to be the bride at every wedding,

2:00

the corpse. At every funeral and they

2:02

keep on buggering on.

2:04

Of course, I don't approve, but

2:07

they are kind of fun. People on

2:09

the left in politics think that life is

2:11

unfair. On the right,

2:13

that life's a joke. And about

2:15

that Neil and Christine Hamilton, have

2:17

stuck to their guns. So let's start

2:19

Neil. With that moment in nineteen ninety seven,

2:22

when you come into the accounting hall, a

2:24

titan, and you see the piles of

2:26

votes for Martin Bell, and

2:28

you've lost big time. How did

2:30

you survive that humiliation? Well,

2:32

I did have ostensibly the fifth safest touristy

2:34

seat in the country, and it took a lot of doing

2:36

to lose it, but I did manage it.

2:39

At length, Well, I

2:41

knew that I wasn't gonna win because

2:44

of the peculiar circumstance of the election. The

2:47

labor candidate was stood down, the lived

2:49

dam candidate, was stood down

2:51

in order to pave the way a great white

2:53

hope of Western civilization with

2:56

that suit that I don't think you'd ever actually

2:58

seen at dry cleaners. If

3:00

I remember correctly, to

3:02

come in and save the world. So III

3:04

knew that was gonna lose. We had the second

3:06

coming. We've had the first coming of of

3:08

Tony Blair, who presented himself as

3:10

the second coming of Christ, and a lot of people were

3:12

taken in by that. And it was, of course,

3:14

the greatest wipeout of

3:17

an election for the Torys apart from the

3:19

one that's gonna come in two thousand twenty four.

3:21

Yeah. Against that background, it wasn't

3:23

very likely that was gonna win with a unified

3:25

opposition candidate who stood for nothing and therefore

3:27

didn't threaten anybody who presented himself

3:29

as an anti politician. So that

3:32

that's why I lost. If there had been a

3:34

labor candidate and a liberal candidate standing,

3:36

I think I might still have won because I

3:38

mean, I did get eighteen thousand votes.

3:40

Forget what percentage that amounted

3:42

to now, but it was a seat that labor could

3:45

never win. And it was unlikely that

3:47

the liberals could could win. That's why

3:49

Ashdown and John Prescott arm

3:51

wrestle candidates out of the picture.

3:54

And and, of course, greater dissension

3:56

in the local Labour Party and the local

3:59

Lidems as well. But nevertheless, you know,

4:01

that's twenty five years ago. To answer

4:03

your question, how did we survive?

4:05

We're just I picked myself up,

4:07

dusted myself down, started all over

4:10

again. In fact, after

4:12

Christine burst upon the scene in that election,

4:15

as the great British battle acts. I

4:19

saw the flip side of this coin

4:21

or the silver lining to the clad

4:23

because she she became She

4:25

blossomed as I wilted. And

4:28

so became media person. The first

4:30

thing that happened was we were invited to go

4:32

and have I got news for you? To you

4:34

know, the the ritual but of their

4:36

bards, but it was, I believe, a successful

4:38

performance where we were able to give as

4:40

good as we got in humor terms. And

4:42

a black humor, I suppose, but nevertheless.

4:44

You know, as you rightly said,

4:46

life is a joke. Otherwise, you know what's

4:48

the point of it. I think with that's what

4:50

the right thing. And the left thing, the

4:52

life's unfair. I happen to think

4:54

both life's a joke and

4:56

life's

4:56

unfair. I don't think life's a joke at

4:59

all. I It's very real.

5:01

You have to take it as it comes and you

5:03

haven't mustn't be too serious about various things

5:05

and you have to pull yourself together and get up and get

5:07

on with

5:07

it, get a grip, etcetera. But I don't think it's a

5:09

joke at all.

5:10

Okay. So at that moment I'm

5:12

not really right wing. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

5:15

Been a sleeper all these

5:16

things in my household.

5:17

So are you in you're in truth,

5:19

you're an arthrocyntaist or what?

5:21

No. I've no idea what a arthrocyntaist study.

5:24

No. I'm absolutely No. Do me okay. Do you

5:26

want hold

5:26

on. Let me you so no.

5:29

Hold on. Before we get I only

5:30

took issue with you saying that right wingers

5:32

think that like it's broken. I

5:34

I am on the right of the

5:35

spectrum. True. Center right.

5:37

True. Okay. That moment

5:40

when Neil loses,

5:42

did you cry?

5:43

No. I don't think so. No. No. We did.

5:45

You're talking you kinda knew what was gonna happen. We did

5:48

know what, but I can remember it was

5:50

one morning. Neil was looking at

5:52

the papers long before social media, etcetera.

5:54

And he said, if these polls

5:56

don't move, we've had it. So we

5:58

knew and we certainly knew when we walked into

6:00

the into the couch. And there were all these extraordinary

6:02

characters. There was an extremely tall fella. What

6:04

was her miss Mani Penny on her side?

6:06

Miss Mani Penny. Miss Mani Penny. It was the

6:08

guy People need to name an and

6:11

there was a guy. I mean, how how

6:13

could you how could you take us seriously?

6:15

We had to make use of Hamilton cabinet.

6:17

Yeah.

6:18

How could you take it seriously when you got all those weird

6:21

characters standing all around? There was

6:23

there was a a sec. I mean, I wrote

6:25

a book about it, and I looked at it. On the

6:27

on the side, a purple homicide. So

6:29

there was something weird about

6:31

that election. I thought at the time it was

6:33

very very

6:33

important, but also it was very very

6:36

funny. And I have to say I'm

6:37

sure it was from from the outsider's point of

6:39

view. It was also new, but I also

6:42

have to say, and this is a rare compliment,

6:44

and don't don't overtake it. But

6:46

I thought that you were stoic.

6:49

I mean, I disagree with you, politically,

6:51

and all of that stuff. But at the

6:53

same time, you played your part

6:55

in the democratic process and sometimes

6:58

that is about losing gracefully. And you

7:00

you there was nothing we could do about

7:02

it. So you just had to accept it and

7:04

move on and which is what

7:06

we did. So after have I got

7:08

news for you, and the whole new,

7:10

I can call it a career, opened

7:12

up in in front of

7:13

us. Just to get back to something you said earlier, and

7:15

I can't remember who which one of you use the

7:17

word We're quite different. To be to be to

7:19

be dignified in defeat is incredibly

7:21

important, and it's a lesson that some politicians

7:24

just never seem to learn.

7:25

Who are you talking about? Or

7:27

nobody in particular. Let well, let let's actually go

7:29

let's let somebody who has, I think, Liz Truss has

7:31

been very dignified.

7:32

Donald Trump, not so. Donald Trump,

7:35

not so. What we had to do

7:37

after after that was turn

7:39

a liability into an asset. And clearly,

7:42

politics was basically close to us. So what

7:44

the heck were we going to do? So I was working

7:46

for Neil. So we suddenly

7:48

overnight, we were unemployed, both lost

7:50

our incomes. In rather unpurposed

7:52

circumstances. So what were we gonna do? So

7:54

it it as I just said, we had to

7:56

turn a liability into an asset, and

7:58

the word of the media started to open

8:00

up. Started with have I gotten

8:02

news from

8:03

me? What a place to start? I remember the

8:05

show. And what was fun about it was that you

8:07

they tried to sort of clobby you that

8:09

you were throwing the cushions back

8:11

at them. Oh. And it became it

8:13

was a good watch. Oh. And then and

8:15

and and that is something that people like.

8:18

Also, I think British people, maybe

8:20

everybody, but British people in particular, kind

8:22

of like a loser who says, okay.

8:25

Picks himself up and then and then picks up and

8:27

starts fighting again or something like that. There's

8:29

a sweetness there. But I saw you in Edinburgh,

8:31

and then you've remembered about a year

8:33

later, and you were you passed around

8:35

the

8:35

tin, which was Neil's pension

8:38

fund.

8:38

Debit. Well, just just I know. And the

8:40

joke

8:40

was really cheesy and bad. And yet, at the

8:42

same time, I found myself laughing. For

8:44

the benefit of those who don't know or any of us.

8:47

Plus, it was a series of new listeners. We we took

8:49

a show to the Edinburgh Festival for for four

8:51

years called Lumps with Hamilton. And it it

8:53

was a chat show based and we had other

8:55

performers at the festival came and we

8:57

chatted, etcetera. And yes, we done well.

8:59

We had all sorts of cheesy jokes on

9:01

there. Who did you love? Who's your favorite guest?

9:03

Well, tell you one or two that

9:05

people may have heard of. The very first

9:07

year we went there, we were playing

9:09

to about two hundred and twenty

9:11

people. And up above us in the presence. There

9:13

was a tiny place which

9:15

took about fifty, maybe

9:17

sixty if they were all very slim. And

9:19

a young man was playing up there who was one

9:21

of our guests on our show and his name

9:23

was Michael McIntyre. And the rest is

9:25

history. The rest is We launched his career.

9:27

And another person

9:28

Oh, by the way, he's gonna sue on that. I mean, you

9:31

No. No. No. Another person He got

9:33

start bidding in his first bottle of

9:35

autobiography. Fruited. Another person who

9:37

came on the show who was in an even smaller

9:39

place. He was in a a porter

9:41

cabin. No windows. No nothing. Literally, the

9:43

sort of thing you see by the side of the

9:45

We went along to see him and that was John Bishop.

9:48

Wow. And his first so

9:50

he just left British telecom and his

9:52

first Edinburgh foray was a huge

9:54

gamble. He got a young family. And he called

9:56

his show. Dick your job

9:58

up. Dick your job up. Which is which is what he

10:00

said to BT, his previous employer.

10:02

I'm

10:02

not saying they were our favorite guests, but they're the

10:04

ones that -- Who really, really -- who are the most

10:06

mutations? So John Bishop is is a

10:08

Scouser. He is a Scouser. Well, and I

10:10

don't know his politics, but they they I

10:12

was not sure I wasn't about politics. No. Nothing to

10:14

do with politics. We were there to entertain and

10:16

make people laugh in much the same way as

10:19

this podcast.

10:20

Yes. No. It's something that makes

10:22

me cry. What we were doing, we were

10:24

we were allowing other people

10:26

we did a little bit of funny nonsense to start with

10:29

and everything playing with the audience and

10:31

each other and everything. And then we allowed

10:33

other people to sell their

10:35

words really. So people would come along to our

10:37

show, and they would see maybe five or

10:39

six other shows at the same time. If

10:41

they acted off, they would go and see them

10:42

properly. Right. Which is what? We interacted with the guests

10:45

on

10:45

on the stage. Yes. And with the

10:47

audience. So we gave them a a platform to

10:49

do. Absolutely. Nothing to do with politics.

10:51

A tool.

11:09

In two thousand and one, even

11:11

before we went to Edinburgh, I

11:13

did the very first time a celebrity get me out

11:15

of

11:15

here. Oh, wow. Yes. You

11:16

did that. And I only And you

11:18

came and you were a trooper in that as

11:20

well. I'm

11:20

a trooper.

11:21

That Yeah. I am a trooper. When they first

11:23

asked me to go in the January of that year, I

11:25

said, no. I just thought life

11:27

was difficult enough without encountering

11:29

rice and beans and snakes

11:31

and then they got back to me in

11:33

the July and they obviously hadn't got their middle

11:36

aged mother hen. I was middle aged hen. It was

11:38

twenty years ago. But what

11:40

it did was it completely

11:42

changed people's opinion of me because they'd

11:44

only seen me through the of the

11:45

media, if I may say. The way they show

11:47

you hang on. Let me finish. The people

11:49

like you, the way people like you had

11:52

represented me. Suddenly, they saw me as

11:54

I really am. Because you can't hide in

11:56

that place. And they thought, well, she's actually

11:58

she's normal. She's a human being. She's

12:00

kind to

12:00

animals. She's fun. And it

12:03

completely changed people's perceptions of me,

12:05

which was invaluable. Was

12:06

the return of nineteen ninety seven when you would, like,

12:08

whatever, get on the tube or something like this, and

12:10

people would be nasty to you. No.

12:13

Well, I certainly think so. Yes.

12:15

There were there was, obviously. Because

12:18

I'd been demonized by the media,

12:20

I just held to represent all

12:22

that was worse and sleazy

12:25

in the major

12:27

government years. And so on the whole thing

12:29

was just stereotype and a fantasy, but but

12:31

nevertheless, you know, that was the reality.

12:33

And, yeah, of course, lefties and

12:35

so on would shout at

12:37

you in the street, but I didn't

12:39

remember that at all. Well, maybe Maybe that

12:42

didn't happen to me. Maybe that didn't happen to me. Maybe that.

12:44

That person I couldn't get asked, but

12:46

because that's more comment on them than it

12:48

is on me. I knew what the truth

12:50

was, but I haven't devoted the rest of

12:52

my life to blame my head against them. Break

12:54

wall of of trying to to

12:58

repair the damage to the past. We move on, done

13:00

something different, make something of the rest of our

13:02

lives, and enjoy what was rest of

13:04

our lives as well. And being in

13:06

the media, being in show business,

13:08

doing all the extraordinary things that we did,

13:10

so I felt as I felt everything from have I got

13:12

news for you to vagina

13:14

monologues in Christine's case? And

13:17

we did Panama We did the

13:20

thirtieth anniversary tour of the Rocky Horace show in

13:22

the official Of course, of course, of course, of the

13:24

anniversary tour. It's just we've had a couple

13:26

of songs. I sometimes look back

13:28

and I think, my goodness, I could have spent the last

13:30

twenty five years in boring old

13:32

politics. Neil obviously

13:34

doesn't feel quite like that, but I do. Instead of

13:36

which, I've had such a fun

13:37

time. And we've met such an eclectic

13:40

mix of people, which I

13:42

never would have done in politics. However,

13:44

young people, two or three of them who might be listening to

13:46

this podcast who don't know what actually happened in

13:48

nineteen ninety seven. So let's explain a little

13:50

bit that Neil has been accused of

13:52

corruption and there's lots of

13:54

bad headlines in particular in the Guardian

13:56

about sleeves that you took money

13:58

from Mohammed Alfi, you deny it, but

14:00

you're in trouble, politically. John Major

14:02

is in trouble. The entire conservative

14:04

party is in meltdown, and Tony Blair

14:06

is playing Bambi. He's doing

14:08

very, very popular. To make the point,

14:10

the Liberals and Labour

14:12

Party stand on their candidates, Martin

14:15

Bell is a single opponent He's the former

14:17

BBC reporter. He's in a white suit. And

14:19

the first time I can remember

14:21

because I missed the back of that that he felt

14:23

was made. And I was, like, seconds

14:25

late, but I missed it. Yeah. The first time I remember

14:28

seeing Christine on full sale

14:30

was when you had to sell at the

14:32

old actually. And there was a BBC

14:35

outside broadcasting van. And those

14:37

days of technology was a bit

14:39

weird. And they had this pole,

14:41

which which lifted very very

14:43

high. And then Christian came

14:45

storming at the house, shouting, and

14:47

we all had I was one of them were all

14:49

standing around, waiting for something to happen. I'm

14:51

curious to use

14:51

it, get that bloody great penis

14:54

thing away from our hedge. I

14:56

don't think I said exactly that. I think what I

14:58

used with the rest of them.

15:01

So I've said people I used it.

15:03

I may say so innocently. It

15:06

was an erection. I used it in an

15:08

innocent

15:08

sense, but because you lot, tell

15:10

about life. Then, of course, I love. It

15:13

was it was one of the most I I

15:16

thought I could remember thinking myself. A

15:18

a op job. We've got right one here.

15:21

But also, it was funny. What was

15:23

the sweetest moment of that campaign

15:25

or the funniest

15:25

moment? And also the the dark of

15:28

nineteen ninety seven of the the battle

15:30

to turn. Trying to think what the good points

15:32

might have been? Well, there was one occasion where

15:34

in order to get out of the

15:36

old record. I'm observed because

15:38

everybody is parked twenty four hours a day at the

15:40

entrance of of

15:42

our House is a little

15:44

driveway, but at the top of that,

15:46

it was a road,

15:48

public road, so people could mill

15:50

around there, but they'd be awfully. But we

15:52

didn't want to be followed everywhere

15:54

we went by the media, obviously, because I

15:56

was trying to run an election campaign. So

15:58

we we crawled out of the house at

16:00

the back end and through

16:03

there was little wood behind our house

16:05

and got at the other end unobserved

16:07

to go off and do a children's

16:10

No. I actually think we went off, and my

16:12

parents were living nearby. Then I actually

16:14

think we just went off to have an afternoon with

16:16

mom and dad. that's what we did. No.

16:18

No. We were waiting for us and we were made.

16:20

Well, so what was so joyful was

16:22

that all the media were there guarding the house

16:24

and the house just completely empty. Because

16:26

there was another case where we went

16:29

to Pantamine. Pantamine. That's

16:31

our school, Pantamine for little kids,

16:33

primary school children. It held in the

16:35

Mobley Village Hall, And

16:37

we were followed on that occasion by

16:39

by by the media. That's right. We got out

16:41

of of that

16:43

undercover of dark is when the lights

16:45

went down, and all the journalist's prison

16:47

were taken up onto the state to do silly

16:49

things with the children. And so

16:51

we we left them then You've you've

16:53

got it half right, darling. The

16:55

the children the the journalists were taken up

16:57

on the stage because the organizers knew who they were,

16:59

and they had to do very stupid things

17:01

that related to pizza

17:03

hut and McDonald's, and they had to do things like

17:05

this and stuff. Which is David, then

17:07

we had a bit of an interval then it

17:09

was after the interval. We were taken on the stage to draw the

17:12

raffle. Oh. And when when the lights went

17:14

down, we just shook it off out of the back. And

17:16

the journalist said to just sit

17:18

took them a while to realize we hadn't come back for the

17:20

second half. And the darkest moment? Oh,

17:22

well, the whole thing was dark in sets because

17:26

clearly, you know, we were on a high thing to

17:28

nothing. And the result As

17:30

I said, we've anticipated. The

17:33

the worst perspective those

17:33

years. We're not really to do with the politics of it. It

17:35

was the legal actions and so on and

17:37

so forth. Your woman you lost your home, didn't

17:40

you? Oh, there was I mean, it

17:42

was I the story is confusing

17:44

because there are lots of suits

17:46

going on, but you you're you're paying an

17:48

awful lot of money to love. Ultimately, and

17:50

I I was faced with three and a half million pounds in

17:52

legal bills. And which in those days

17:54

was a lot of money. So I

17:56

went I was bankrupt, and

17:58

Kristine obviously wasn't. So her half of

18:00

the house was safe,

18:02

but mine was lost and I'd

18:04

financially was wiped out. So I

18:06

had to think of

18:08

something which would solve that

18:10

problem. The answer was send the Wi Fi

18:12

to work.

18:29

Now tell me a little bit about your

18:31

beginnings. You first become

18:33

famous, Christine. Because

18:35

you're with What's coming? We've Gerald Navarro.

18:38

And he really will have to explain to you

18:40

on this. I guess we're gonna

18:41

yep. So who's Gerald Navarro? Who is Gerald Navarro?

18:43

Sir Gerald Navarro? He was

18:45

a very very well known member of parliament. He had an

18:48

enormous handlebar mustache. He

18:50

was very well known for appearing

18:52

on things like the equivalent the

18:54

then equivalent of question time and any questions and

18:56

that sort of thing. And he had a deep booming

18:59

voice and everybody

19:01

knew him literally everybody who's one

19:03

of the most famous -- He's a great

19:05

star. -- politicians. He was never a

19:07

minister, but he was he

19:09

had all sorts of come. And we were very, very well known. And I

19:11

left university and What did

19:13

you do? An advanced

19:15

party in basically. And

19:18

I met, Sajerald, my

19:20

last my last term at university. I

19:22

was the vice chairman of

19:24

the Conservatives, he came to speak. And

19:27

during dinner, he said, my dear,

19:29

what are you going to do when you

19:31

graduate? So I said, oh, you know, which

19:33

I did then. I said, I want to be a member of parliament,

19:35

and I'd like to go and work at House of Commons and

19:37

see what it's all about. My

19:39

dear, you know. I don't have I won't do the

19:41

whole thing. I won't don't have a job to offer you now,

19:43

but keep in touch, and let's see what happens.

19:46

Within I got a job with

19:48

another MP. And then within a couple of

19:50

months less, I get the phone

19:52

call to say, would I go and have a drink with him?

19:54

And his secretary of thirteen years was

19:56

walking out And he said, well, I said,

19:58

but I don't type. I don't do

20:00

shorthand. I'm not a secretary. And

20:02

he said, oh, my dear, don't worry about that. I'll

20:04

employ someone to do all that. I want you to run

20:06

my life. Which is what

20:08

I did until he very

20:10

sadly died very prematurely in

20:12

November nineteen seventy

20:14

three. But he

20:14

got into trouble because the

20:16

Oh, he got into trouble.

20:17

Explain what happened. Well, he got into trouble. It was a

20:20

big driving case, and he

20:22

was accused of having gone

20:24

round around the wrong

20:25

way. Which

20:25

is a bad thing. Yeah.

20:27

It it sounds impossible, but in fact, it

20:29

was a lozying. I'm

20:30

struggling with the lozying. That should cost me Well, if you

20:33

imagine people think of a roundabout that

20:35

you go up to it and you deliberately turn

20:37

right and go around, it wasn't like that. When you

20:39

got up to this loans

20:41

around about dumping the road,

20:43

you had to very turn left,

20:45

very hard turn left, but the actual

20:48

road went straight on, but that was wrong. Doesn't

20:50

matter. All this happened long before I

20:52

started working for him. So I was nothing

20:54

to do with it. But by the time it

20:56

came to court, I was working for

20:57

him. So I went to court with him and

21:00

I was photographed, etcetera, etcetera. In

21:02

in

21:02

a mini, I think you drove him in the mini or something like

21:05

that. I

21:05

didn't know. I didn't And and those are the I mean, this is

21:07

There's there's a picture. School then. This

21:09

is seven c seventy three or

21:12

something like

21:13

this. Yes. Because I was around when the whole thing came to

21:15

court, I got imprinted in the

21:17

public's mind as having been the person who

21:19

had driven the wrong way around the roundabout because

21:21

she was his sick. But she

21:23

she happened to be etcetera, etcetera. So

21:26

much so that when we got to court in

21:28

nineteen ninety nine

21:31

after nineteen ninety

21:32

seven, When we

21:32

got to court When we got to

21:35

court, the very first thing almost

21:37

that our barrister had to say

21:39

was to the jury, what I can't

21:41

remember exactly what he said, but for those of

21:43

you of a certain age, I just would like to

21:45

clarify that missus Hamilton

21:47

was not. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

21:49

In case they thought, oh, yes, this is the

21:51

woman who did in deriving around the wrong

21:52

way, etcetera,

21:53

etcetera. Thank

21:56

god we Okay. But most of your most of your listeners will

21:58

wonder what the hell we're talking

22:00

about. Was there any a bit like drunks on the But

22:02

you're quite right. That that was my

22:05

first encounter. With the media

22:07

and the way they can distort

22:08

things. Show me a clop and me a clop up.

22:10

But you never became an unpaid. Oh,

22:12

no. I very quickly decided I

22:15

didn't want do that. Well, my mind, but but you love Poland. I can

22:17

remember you telling me once. The thing is that you

22:19

miss about you love the House of

22:21

Commons as a building. Well,

22:22

indeed.

22:23

And it's beautiful and the kind

22:26

of the traffic, the energy, the clip

22:28

clip of people's shoes on those

22:30

beautiful

22:30

halls, whatever. Something magical and beautiful

22:33

about that place. I can remember you, sir. Yeah. You're

22:35

absolutely

22:35

right. Yeah. So

22:36

why so how can you like the

22:38

building and not want to become an MP?

22:41

Oh, easily. I mean, there are thousands of people who work at the Palace

22:43

at Westminster, and most of

22:45

them, I reckon, would have a little

22:47

bit of a heartly whenever they see it or

22:49

go into it. There is it is just a

22:51

a majestic place, and the history of the

22:53

whole thing is truly amazing. I mean,

22:55

walking through Westminster Hall, early

22:58

in the morning when there is nobody else

23:00

around. It's a truly magical

23:01

thing.

23:01

It's what it's a thousand years

23:04

old.

23:04

At least. You see, I did that from nineteen

23:06

ninety seven. Told us little. To nineteen ninety

23:08

seven. You know, I had a really good whack And I

23:10

didn't look my age on that ear. Wanting

23:12

to

23:12

be an MP is a huge step up. Actually

23:14

Well, I didn't answer, but what we're not sure. I'm about

23:16

to tell you for this. Okay. You

23:22

will I mean, you know I'm a boring

23:23

sport. Lovely. You won't, please. I've

23:25

been I've spent the most much of the

23:26

year. And this is

23:27

the most frightening moment of the

23:30

year, frankly. Well, Martin Bell actually said that

23:32

nothing he had encountered in the war zones of

23:34

Bosnia had prepared him for the shock of

23:35

meeting, missus Hamilton. But

23:38

To compare with Lady McBeth is

23:40

on first on Lady McBeth. On first

23:42

to Lady McBeth, you said

23:45

that. Just to go back to why I don't want to be an

23:47

MP. You will not believe this, but you

23:49

have to believe it because I'm telling you it's true. I

23:51

do not like confrontation. What

23:53

did you drink? No. Exactly. I knew you wouldn't believe

23:55

it, but I don't believe you. I know you don't. But

23:57

you can tell them how high it's true

23:59

that. I don't believe I

24:02

would absolutely hate to

24:04

be up there in the front row

24:06

with all that banging

24:07

confrontation. I hate it. Absolutely hate

24:09

it. Would hate it. But

24:10

you're very you're absolutely

24:13

up for five. Not really. I

24:15

mean, if somebody presents me with

24:17

a fight, then I'll take them on, but I don't

24:19

seek a fight. No. Absolutely not. I

24:21

mean, support me, darling. Yes. No. I'm

24:24

I'm doing behind you. And

24:26

you What do you feel me holding

24:28

you up? I don't believe you. I promise I just

24:30

I didn't didn't have that

24:33

final, you know. Oh, Christine hates all the

24:35

viciousness of politics. I do. But but

24:37

you kinda like it. It's meat and drink, isn't

24:39

it? It's all part

24:41

of of the excitement of it

24:43

in a way. You're very much in favor

24:45

of Brexit. I joined the anti common market

24:47

league in nineteen sixty seven in

24:49

anticipation of Britain joining the common

24:51

market six years before in fact.

24:53

Nigel Farage was three at the time. Neil

24:55

has spent his entire adult life

24:57

working towards Brexit long before

24:59

the European Union even

25:01

existed. think the European Union

25:03

is a bloody good thing, and I think

25:05

it's a crying shame that we left.

25:07

And I would dearly

25:10

love brilliant to rig join your

25:11

opinion. You may get your wish.

25:13

And and she'd really be patting you on

25:15

the head and saying there there, it'll soon

25:17

be alright. No. I mean, nature will be in

25:19

to see you shortly. It's not bad. It is

25:22

you're doing what the Kremlin

25:25

wants. The Kremlin wants to see a

25:27

weakened divided Europe. And

25:29

if we're not in the European Union,

25:32

then Brexit is a Kremlin goal. What

25:34

was I say? Remember, this weekend divided,

25:36

anyway. But he he never threatened to

25:38

pose any threat to put it because of course it

25:40

would be impossible to have a European army as

25:42

we now discover from events in the

25:44

last few months. Oh, the magazine is trying

25:46

to see. We'll never see the

25:49

light of a day. Well,

25:50

let's see about that. But we can argue

25:52

all the live long day about this.

25:54

And maybe that's

25:54

another another time.

25:57

However, Nigel Farage,

25:59

you ought to be on his side and

26:01

he was your party leader for

26:03

a time. And then you fell out with

26:05

him. This lovely line about he is

26:07

he wants to be the brightest one out with him.

26:09

It's just that he tried to

26:11

stop me being a candidate for the

26:13

European elections in two thousand and forty. It

26:15

did stop. And subsequently, the

26:18

following year, every constituency

26:20

that I wanted to contest. One

26:22

after another, I was blocked. Having

26:24

been smashed up, of conservative

26:26

politics by Martin Bell. Why did you wanna go back in

26:29

the first place? Because I believe things

26:31

-- Mhmm. -- like on the European

26:33

issue and which is why I wanted be a

26:35

candidate for European parliament elections in two thousand

26:37

fourteen because my main

26:39

aim in life for the last fifty odd

26:41

years has been first

26:43

of all, stop it in joining the EU. I failed

26:45

in that. But but after we joined

26:47

in nineteen seventy three, do everything possible

26:49

to get us out of this nightmare.

26:52

Ultimately, we did achieve that more or

26:54

less. It's not complete yet. The

26:56

winded forage okay. I'll get that winded

26:59

forage not once you. But I'm

27:01

I'm not alone in in having been

27:03

victimized by him because anybody

27:05

who he sees or saw

27:07

has a potential threat, not that I ever

27:09

wanted to be the leader of Euclid, certainly

27:12

not to displace him. But also,

27:14

I think anybody who competes for the limelight

27:17

in an organization. Again,

27:21

that's all I can put it down to

27:23

fundamentally because he actually invited both of

27:25

us into UK back in two

27:27

thousand and two. Just around the corner

27:29

from where we are now, actually, we went out to

27:31

to a restaurant in Marsh Street for

27:33

lunch, out of the blue never didn't know

27:36

at all. He wanted us both to be candidates in

27:38

the two thousand and four European

27:40

elections. We we said no, not because

27:42

I didn't want do it, but

27:44

make our way in

27:46

the world of comedy and

27:46

entertainment. You didn't think it would be

27:49

right for you. I didn't want to do it

27:51

full stop. Neil didn't think it would be right for

27:53

him and he didn't think it would be right for Youkips.

27:55

Because I was still controversial then. Thanks to people

27:57

at you. Yes. And and so

27:59

I didn't think it would be in Youkips

28:01

too. Far as didn't care because he wanted the publicity.

28:03

When was the moment that you

28:05

realized that there was something a little bit of

28:07

the richer the third about Nigel Farage?

28:10

Well, it wasn't for many years afterwards, although

28:12

I was aware that other people had fallen by

28:14

the wayside for the same reasons as I

28:17

subsequently did in the meantime, but

28:19

I didn't see that side of his character

28:22

until the full force. Of his

28:24

vice operation was vented upon me. I

28:26

don't

28:26

know if you were here

28:28

with I'm guessing would say, I disagree. I

28:31

dispute this. Everything he did is

28:33

fair and I'm sure he would

28:35

say that. I

28:36

mean, I don't want to read the captions of these patents, but there's

28:38

something slightly as far as yours concerned,

28:41

there is something slightly – or rather, there's something

28:43

wrong about Nigel's

28:44

branch. He

28:45

is a Jacquelyn Wood currently. Here's what he is. He he

28:47

without far as we would not now be out of

28:49

the European Union. Let's be absolutely

28:52

clear. His personality

28:55

and drive were

28:57

absolutely essential to

28:59

that. It's the creation of UK. Is

29:01

entirely his. So, you

29:03

know, I'm a great admirer of his stills

29:05

in in many, many respects. But

29:07

I see this flaw in his character, which

29:09

is very trumpian, actually. And

29:12

that surprised me that they appeared to be

29:14

good pals. That's you know,

29:16

he just can't cope with

29:18

other people who he regards. I never regarded

29:20

myself as a name make grumpy

29:22

to to him and have a different generation

29:24

for one thing. That he

29:27

just will stop at nothing to

29:29

achieve his objective of wiping people

29:31

out if they get in his way for whatever

29:34

reason.

29:50

Which career did you prefer? Politics

29:53

or the business have shown? Oh,

29:55

both. I mean, I wouldn't have not not had either

29:57

if that makes sense. Now I'm delighted such an extraordinary

29:59

life. So I've had all the political side.

30:01

But as I've said earlier, the idea that I

30:03

would have spent the last twenty five years

30:06

still in politics would have

30:08

been so curling and

30:10

so sort of, you know, in straight lines, whereas

30:12

in fact, thanks to life

30:15

happening.

30:16

We've been able to branch out and I have thoroughly

30:19

enjoyed doing all the other stuff. So I want to ask

30:21

both of you. What is the sweetest

30:23

moment that you've

30:25

had with Neil, and what's the darkest

30:27

moments? And vice

30:29

versa, the darkest moments and the sweetest

30:31

moment you've had with

30:32

Christine. That's that's imp impostable

30:34

because we met when we were eighteen and

30:36

we're now seventy three, so we have had

30:38

so many moments. The darkest moments

30:41

were clearly can't tell exactly

30:43

when, but something to do with the whole

30:45

fired business. And don't forget, in

30:47

two thousand and one sorry,

30:49

it was out two thousand and two, I was on

30:51

I'm a celebrity. Two thousand and one was

30:54

when we were very publicly arrested by the

30:56

Metropolitan

30:56

police, and both of us accused of

30:58

rape. That was a very dark moment. Tell

31:00

the listeners what happened. Look, basically, the

31:03

accusation Well, the act yes. It

31:05

was false and you were The

31:07

accusation came aided

31:09

and abetted by, wait for it,

31:11

mister Max Clifford. From a girl who we

31:13

had never heard of, we had never met, we

31:15

had had nothing to do with, it was completely out

31:17

of the blue, her motive was money. So the

31:20

next thing is we get run up by our

31:22

solicitor to say the police say

31:24

that they have enough evidence to

31:26

arrest you for

31:28

sexual impropriety. The word rape wasn't

31:30

mentioned. In

31:30

fact, I was it was in this building

31:33

upstairs where the phone call came to you from my

31:35

solicitor telling us about about

31:37

this incident. What was the happiest

31:39

moment then? The sweetest funniest or or

31:41

one of them where you

31:42

just go, you know, like, this is funny.

31:44

This is great. Oh, we've had so many of those some way.

31:46

I mean, we we just we know we're great friends. We

31:48

get it on very well, so we have lots of

31:50

fun, sweet moments every day, really. We've

31:53

had several today already. But

31:55

you really Well, I mean, just

31:56

yes. Well, I mean, you you on your way here,

31:58

you were what you met

32:01

the the eco

32:02

warriors. Yes. Well, that's that's just the path of the

32:05

courses. Didn't they have a go at you? No course

32:07

not. They were they were lying flat on the road

32:09

like this. You know? Hands,

32:12

it glued to the road.

32:13

No. They were they were gluing their hands.

32:15

But I don't know. Did you do you ever think about would

32:17

you ever join

32:18

them? They'll be daft. What I -- Right. -- more

32:20

more likely feel like is going and grabbing

32:22

their hands and pulling them off the road, but then I would

32:24

have been arrested by the police for assaulting

32:27

them for six. I had to keep my cool.

32:29

It was just outside here. Just just

32:31

around the corner. Do you like getting into

32:32

trouble? No. Of course, I don't. But

32:35

you've

32:35

been in trouble.

32:36

It's bad. I don't I don't caught

32:38

trouble. I didn't ask you. What about

32:39

Neil though? Yeah. Do you like getting into

32:42

trouble? No. Of course not. But you you stand your girl and

32:44

the team believes the husband's place is in the wrong, and

32:46

so I'm often in trouble in a domestic

32:49

situation. But No.

32:51

I mean, life is what happens to you

32:53

when you're making other plans as John Lennon

32:56

memorably observed. And

32:58

I'm pretty pragmatic about life in general.

33:00

And yes, we've had low moments

33:03

in life. And as you've rightly said, a

33:05

minute ago, there was a time in nineteen

33:07

ninety eight, when it was

33:09

difficult to to see how we were going

33:11

to be able to earn enough

33:13

money to sustain

33:15

ourselves in the sort of style which we

33:17

would like. Although you

33:19

just have to get on with it as the Duke

33:21

of Edinburgh would have said, which is

33:23

what we've done. And as Christine said,

33:26

We've had a lot of fun and done and seen

33:28

a lot of interesting things in

33:30

people in the world outside of

33:32

politics as well as the world inside

33:34

politics. I didn't want to lose my seat nineteen

33:36

ninety seven and want to go through all

33:38

the horrors of the the previous three

33:40

years after fire accused me

33:42

of of what became known as cash

33:44

for questions. But but, you know, that happened.

33:46

And so we've had to

33:48

find our way out of that labyrinth and into

33:50

the light again, which we did.

33:52

And then subsequently, I did go back into politics

33:55

through through the European issue.

33:57

And so I did have a fascinating

34:00

time as a result of occupier and Nigel

34:02

Farrott who who put beyond

34:04

on on that that road. So

34:06

there's no point in having regrets

34:08

about life because you're not going back. And you

34:10

have to make the best of the hand

34:12

that fate deals you. We have to

34:15

close, but maybe just one sentence from both of you.

34:18

Somebody's in trouble. What's your advice to

34:20

them? For people who've been in

34:22

trouble if

34:22

Well, my advice will be Ten is what? The trouble

34:25

is. Of course. Would be be there for your friends when they're

34:27

in trouble, then they will be there for you when you're

34:30

in trouble. So start

34:32

before you're

34:34

in trouble by being good to your friends and helping them out of their troubles.

34:36

But you know, our troubles are just very

34:38

public. People know about them. But in the

34:40

time we've had all our various ups and

34:42

downs, friends of ours, you

34:44

know, they've they've had tragedies.

34:46

They've died prematurely. They've divorced.

34:48

They've had, you know, lost children and

34:51

etcetera, etcetera, are problems are just very public. But

34:53

in fact, they are nothing compared to what

34:56

an awful lot of other people have had in

34:58

that same last twenty five years.

35:00

Well, sir,

35:02

you? Well, I agree entirely with what Christine said, of course, but you'd

35:06

expect. That's my role in life.

35:08

You I

35:10

know You're smiling. You're smiling, but you live in theater. If

35:12

you believe that, you'll believe anything.

35:14

Well, you know. Everybody thinks

35:16

I wear the trousers is absolutely

35:18

rubbish. We wear a legg each other. I mean, I decide which pair we put

35:21

on in the morning. That's how it works. I mean, a

35:23

lot of people might wonder what else

35:26

they doing here today. Talk to you. Talk to you. Having

35:28

a laugh considering you were

35:29

such an absolute shit to us in

35:31

November seventh. Oh, but I

35:34

Sure. Well, thank you for that compliment, and you've

35:36

saved my day. And thank you very much

35:38

for coming on sweetie tours.

35:41

Thanks for listening to

35:43

this episode of Sweeney Chokes. You can

35:45

hear what I really think about. It is

35:47

Sweeney. Keep stalking. Find

35:50

that exclusively. On global

35:52

player. Listen and subscribe

35:55

now. Until the

35:57

next time. Goodbye.