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1:14

Hello and welcome to Tablemelas, I'm Jesse Ware

1:16

and I'm here with Lenny looking very gorgeous.

1:19

I'm not looking gorgeous. You are, and it's

1:21

like you knew that I had ollives in

1:23

the recipe today, because you are dressed as

1:25

a green goddess. Green goddess. Green goddess, I

1:27

was going to say, but yeah, green goddess,

1:29

let's go with that. So I'm on cooking

1:32

duty today, and I'm not nervous, I wasn't

1:34

nervous until I've thought about it, and I

1:36

thought, oh my God, I'm such an idiot,

1:38

I'm such an idiot for doing a pesto

1:40

pesto pesto pesto pesto pesto. when we have

1:43

probably the Queen of British Italian restaurants. We

1:45

have Ruth Rogers coming over. I don't

1:47

know whether I should be calling her

1:49

Ruthie or Ruth. You were like, why

1:52

are you calling her Ruthie? But that's

1:54

it. That's the name of her podcast.

1:56

But I also have known her as

1:58

Ruth Rogers. So Ruth Rogers. Baroness Ruth

2:01

Rogers of the Riverside. I think

2:03

that's her like title. That's an

2:05

amazing title. Do you get that

2:07

like because you're- Well she's an

2:09

honorary, she must be an honorary

2:11

player. But the Riverside bit is

2:13

like, you know, she has the

2:15

River Cafe. They didn't like just-

2:17

for good measure. I don't know

2:19

darling we'll ask her how you

2:21

get your name. So like if

2:23

you became the right honourable or

2:25

whatever the Baroness of Manors. I'll

2:27

be the Baroness of Claphamson. Well

2:29

you wouldn't take the title though

2:31

would you? No, would you? Anyway

2:33

we have Ruth Rogers coming over

2:35

to eat with us, to chat

2:37

and to talk everything, River Cafe.

2:39

I'm really excited to meet her.

2:41

It's like many other people, one

2:43

of my favourite restaurants in London.

2:45

took my husband there for his

2:47

40th this year last year. Did

2:49

you have a white peach balini?

2:51

Of course. Well it depends what's

2:53

seasonal, yeah. But I remember we

2:55

went there for Hannah's graduation. It

2:57

was gorgeous. It's one of those

2:59

places where you go. For something

3:01

special. But what I love about

3:03

it is that it isn't stuffy.

3:05

So it's got like really great

3:07

energy and just lovely people. Ruthie

3:09

is bringing the pudding. I wonder

3:11

if it is the chocolate nemesis.

3:13

That's the River Cafe, isn't it?

3:15

I've got all her cookbooks. They're

3:17

gorgeous and they're simple recipes, but

3:19

just with delicious ingredients. Well, I

3:21

have made, Hannah, I think my

3:23

sister was like, why have you

3:25

done this for Ruthie Rogers? I've

3:27

done my bare chicken. Why are

3:29

you? But why? Why? The first

3:31

mob is in Spain. Her whole

3:33

association is Italy, Mom. Her whole

3:35

association is Italy. But I wasn't

3:37

going to go there. It's a

3:39

bit erzat, isn't it? What's erzat?

3:41

It means it's contrived. It's not

3:43

kind of a pure recipe. Like

3:45

pesto rice. Do you think this

3:48

is a really bad idea? I'm

3:50

not saying a thing. Well, you

3:52

know what? I love my bear

3:54

chicken. And I love my little

3:56

pesto rice that we do. don't

3:58

let it go dry I'm not

4:00

gonna let it go dry I've

4:02

got a timer on because last

4:04

time I made it with Emma

4:06

and Richard it was dry yes

4:08

I'm aware of that mom thank

4:10

you no pressure look at you

4:12

sitting there anyway I'm making my

4:14

bare chicken which I really like

4:16

and now I feel like you

4:18

whatever maybe I won't call it

4:20

my bare chicken fuck it I'm

4:22

proud of my bare chicken I

4:24

love it's delicious haven't made it

4:26

for a few years for a

4:28

few years and it's tasty it's

4:30

I don't know because I haven't

4:32

made it for so long. Well

4:34

I'm thrilled that I'm about to

4:36

give it to somebody who has

4:38

retained a Michelin Star since 1998.

4:40

It ain't Michelin Star, darling. No,

4:42

but why would she want Michelin?

4:44

Like, why? No. Jesus. Oh, whatever.

4:46

My husband will enjoy it later.

4:48

I'm sure it will too. It's

4:50

been marinating for 24 hours. Yeah.

4:52

I've made homemade pesto to go

4:54

in our rice. good. My asthma

4:56

is oregano. Yes, from the garden,

4:58

thank you very much. Have you

5:00

got oregano in your garden? Yes,

5:02

you're kidding. Anyway, Ruth Rogers coming

5:04

on to talk about our podcast,

5:06

to talk about food and I'm

5:08

going to be feeding her more

5:10

vegetables about your eyes. Ruthie,

5:21

are we calling you Ruthie or Ruth?

5:23

I think Ruthie. Is that mean, does

5:26

that mean we're on like friendly to,

5:28

is that, because I think you're always,

5:30

you're, I think, yeah, and Ruth Rogers.

5:32

Did they say, that sounds so serious?

5:35

Ruthie's kind of, I mean, it's, Ruth

5:37

is a kind of biblical, serious name,

5:39

so I think what's quite nice is

5:41

to put the I, e, e, at

5:44

the end of it, and I think

5:46

Richard always called me, legal document I

5:48

try and say Ruthie it's just a

5:50

nice one. Oh really? I try but

5:53

then they send it back and say

5:55

you have to change it back to

5:57

Ruthie it's a pleasure so have you

5:59

you've come in with your dear family

6:02

friend Sophia from Oregon who's sitting here

6:04

and listens to your podcast every single

6:06

time. In Oregon. In Oregon. Hello, Oregon.

6:08

How would you travel? How was your

6:10

weekend? That weekend, I came back from

6:13

New York. I was working on a

6:15

book in New York and I

6:17

got back on a Friday and

6:19

it was coming back, you know,

6:21

January in London, sometimes can be

6:24

a bit grim and gray, but

6:26

I had a great weekend and

6:28

got back into the river It

6:30

was wonderful? Buzzing? It was buzzing.

6:32

Well, not always. You know, like

6:34

every other restaurant, you have your

6:36

quiet times and your not quiet

6:39

times. And so I went, I got

6:41

back on Friday morning and had dinner

6:43

with friends on Friday night there. And

6:45

yeah, it's all my children. New York,

6:48

it's interesting. I love, I have to

6:50

say, I do love, you know, what

6:52

I go to New York to have

6:55

the kind of food you don't have.

6:57

in here so I don't go for

6:59

the Italian or the French so much

7:01

though they're really good Italian restaurants. I

7:04

go to Minetta. tavern which is owned

7:06

by Keith McNally or Balthisar. Keith McNally.

7:08

I follow him on Instagram. And I'm

7:10

terrified if I ever offended one of

7:13

his waiters he would come for me.

7:15

He would come for you. He would.

7:17

But I would also would and he

7:20

wouldn't do that. And he also he

7:22

really loves the people who work for

7:24

him. You know and he so he

7:27

has Meneta tavern which is basically very

7:29

American steaks and you know roasted chicken

7:31

and great. oysters and he's he's a

7:34

really he really cares about food and

7:36

it's also a great atmosphere and I

7:38

like Baltha's are which is you know

7:41

a great kind of event place

7:43

and for breakfast I got a

7:45

Saint-EMbroughs because I sent him a

7:47

lot it's a Milanese you know

7:49

cafe which opened in and it's on

7:51

the every side but it's um it's like

7:54

being in Milan you know you all walk

7:56

in and there all the cakes and the

7:58

pastries and then you go the back and

8:00

you can have a risotto. I don't

8:03

usually go there except for breakfast. So

8:05

I don't know about the food. I

8:07

like going to the Carlyle when I'm

8:09

up town again when I'm at the

8:11

bar. Oh my God. The Bellomens bar.

8:14

I want to sing in the Carlyle

8:16

one day. Why don't you? I would

8:18

love to. Yeah what I love about

8:20

the Carlyle is you go down there

8:23

and you see somebody who's even older

8:25

than me. You're not old. dark glasses

8:27

on yeah and they live in the

8:29

car aisle or something and they come

8:31

down they say what would you like

8:34

and the hill sale have my regular

8:36

yeah and they all know what you're

8:38

drinking and the snacks are really great

8:40

there and the cocktails are the best

8:43

yeah really good and that bar is

8:45

great and also the murals on the

8:47

wall you know the bed by denelments

8:49

yeah and the floor that black and

8:51

white template I love it and where

8:54

else to eat but then mostly you

8:56

know when I travel either to New

8:58

York or to LA. I eat a

9:00

lot in people's homes, you know, so

9:03

it's nice just to eat. And even

9:05

in New York, and they say, yeah,

9:07

really, you can find that. People have

9:09

a lot more takeaway and yeah, I

9:11

find it quite astonishing. People aren't big

9:14

cooks. We went to, have you been

9:16

to Barbiti? Yes, I love it. Yeah,

9:18

that's great. Yeah, it's great, isn't it?

9:20

I love it, love it, love it.

9:23

Yeah. And also the Waverly In, I

9:25

really like, Grayden Carter, you know, who

9:27

was an editor of Vanity Fair. He

9:29

bought the Waverly In and I think

9:31

it's really good. Yeah. Because that's kind

9:34

of, you know, and I like having

9:36

kind of... food that you have in

9:38

America, you know, in the States. So

9:40

it's a kind of fun to eat

9:43

that kind of food. Yeah, it is.

9:45

Ruthie, do you fancy having a bit

9:47

of food? Very little. Okay. Because I

9:49

had a late breakfast. Okay. Just really.

9:51

I don't have to have any food.

9:54

Well, I'd love you to have a

9:56

little food. But, but, but I'm also

9:58

very aware that you are you and

10:00

you and I have... Done my bear

10:03

chicken great. Okay fine fantastic fine because

10:05

it's hard to know what to do.

10:07

I was just being I was just

10:09

asked if you know and I'm sure

10:11

you get to say oh I couldn't

10:14

you know what to feel I said

10:16

people say I couldn't cook for you

10:18

I'm scared to cook for you or

10:20

whatever and I say I'm the easiest

10:23

person to cook for because I'm so

10:25

appreciative of somebody actually cooking for me

10:27

if you were at home though making

10:29

just an easy Sunday lunch what would

10:31

you would you would you would it

10:34

be like the river yeah it would

10:36

yeah it would yeah it's my it's

10:38

my language yeah it's my it's my

10:40

language yeah so I don't go home

10:43

and then make something I'd make you

10:45

know I make you know I make

10:47

French food food you know I You

10:49

know, it's a dessert. It's a dessert

10:51

where you make the, you poach the

10:54

egg, you whip the egg whites and

10:56

then you poach them in milk. Yeah.

10:58

And then you use the milk to

11:00

make the cussets. And then you make

11:03

cremongglades. And they sit on the top.

11:05

The only island. Yeah, okay. Got it.

11:07

Got it. Yeah. So I use the

11:09

French. For the island. If I was

11:11

cooking. you know, at home, but I

11:14

cook Italian, but we have a lot

11:16

of pasta. We have, you know, my,

11:18

our go to pasta, we just thing

11:20

is, you know. pasta with tomato sauce,

11:23

you know, with all the various pastas

11:25

you can have. I always go back

11:27

to the simple ones. And what would

11:29

be, what would be your pastor of

11:31

choice? Oh, to more Taglariini, pasta, I

11:34

do a kind of thin. I really

11:36

like the Cipiani brand of pasta. I

11:38

don't know if you use them. They're

11:40

horrendously expensive, but they're really well done.

11:43

And they come in boxes, and so

11:45

the Taglariini is really good. I'm just

11:47

going to take some pasta from River

11:49

Cafe. No, I don't take, I really

11:51

try not, I don't, I end up

11:54

taking food. Well, if I know I'm

11:56

doing something and I want the River

11:58

Cafe to cook the food there, that

12:00

I will, but I don't really take

12:03

food home from there. That's. like you

12:05

know been cooked. I mean sometimes on

12:07

a Saturday or Sunday if I'm home

12:09

I'll say if there's any vegetables or

12:11

or cook beans something that I might

12:14

not do but generally I don't take

12:16

food home. I think I've got all

12:18

your cookbooks. The blue one is one

12:20

of my favourites. That was our very

12:23

first. That was our first one. And

12:25

I love the silver one as well.

12:27

What do you love about it? I

12:29

just like, I like the simplicity of

12:31

it. That it's good ingredients, but not

12:34

so complicated that you can't manage it.

12:36

Although I don't, we were talking about

12:38

chocolate nemesis. Oh well. That was everybody's

12:40

nemesis. Well, to make it. Julian Barnes

12:43

wrote a piece and it. And it

12:45

was really funny, you should really should

12:47

really should go. He wrote a piece

12:49

about The Nemesis and it was something

12:51

like, you know, there was a time

12:54

in the 90s when you walked into

12:56

any house and any dinner party that

12:58

was being given and you saw this

13:00

splodge of chocolate. And I'm like, nobody

13:03

could make it work. And I say

13:05

to people now, I say, you know,

13:07

give me a break. It was our

13:09

first cookbook, you know, which is very

13:11

professional. But we, it did work, but

13:14

we just, it's very big. And then,

13:16

in both. in all the following books.

13:18

I think the easy book has one,

13:20

easy nemesis, and certainly the 30 has

13:23

it. Well, there's an easy nemesis. Yeah,

13:25

yeah. But also, it is an easy

13:27

cake to make, but I think we

13:29

just did it in such a big

13:31

tin, and it does work. You can

13:34

make the nemesis from that. that recipe.

13:36

I think all of your recipes, the

13:38

simplicity of them, is the attraction for

13:40

me. And it's, I think it's just

13:43

delicious ingredients, like you mentioned using a

13:45

special pasta, and it's worth buying it.

13:47

I think that, you know, they don't

13:49

have to be expensive ingredients. I mean,

13:51

ingredients now, like, good or bad, everything

13:54

is expensive. Yeah. But I think that

13:56

if you are making something very simple,

13:58

like a pasta with tomato, and we

14:00

would say, you know, use the best

14:03

pasta you can find. use the best

14:05

tomato and olive oil and then you're

14:07

there you know it can be very

14:09

simple. Wow this is exciting. No that

14:11

is perfect. Delicious. Tell me about what

14:14

this is go on. My my mom

14:16

thought it was quite funny that I

14:18

chose to do this because basically I

14:20

used to do this. loads when I

14:23

was younger for dinner parties, basically, so

14:25

I could prep it the night before.

14:27

You know what it's like when you're

14:29

having people over at an Otilengi all

14:31

talk to us, but like you prep.

14:34

So anyway, and I, it's been so

14:36

miserable the weather, now at least there's

14:38

like kind of blue skies. It's actually

14:40

more of a summary dish, but you've

14:43

probably, you've had not made a chicken

14:45

before. Tell me better. But I just

14:47

like it. So how did you make

14:49

it? I made everything close of garlic.

14:51

oregano that had so much frost on

14:54

it from outside, bay leaves, olives, capers,

14:56

apricots, prunes, wine. Wine cup goes today.

14:58

Actually I don't know if I've put

15:00

enough brown sugar on but whatever because

15:03

I thought it had so much sweetness

15:05

anyway. Capers, vinegar, olive oil, delicious, easy.

15:07

and mixture of thighs and breast, because

15:09

last time I made it it was

15:11

quite dry, with the breast, because I

15:14

ever cooked it. Anyway, I think I

15:16

put more sauce in. And then I

15:18

realized, because we always serve it with

15:20

pesto rice, it's just been a thing

15:23

that we've done as a family. Yeah.

15:25

But I realized. Why am I doing

15:27

pesto when I've got Ruthie Rogers? No,

15:29

no, no. So I made some pesto

15:31

yesterday and I've shoved at M's Basmalte.

15:34

It's not a risotto. Yeah, and then

15:36

with just a herb salad. But I

15:38

just quite like it because it's quite

15:40

peppy and it kind of gets the

15:43

back of your throat. It kind of

15:45

also comforting. Yeah, it is. Upstate New

15:47

York. I was born in a town

15:49

called Woodstock. Oh, yes. I know. I

15:51

used to say I was just come

15:54

from a small town in upstate New

15:56

York and then I could say Woodstock

15:58

and I went my last... I went

16:00

to the local school and then my

16:03

last two years of high school,

16:05

11th and 12th grade, I went

16:07

to school on a ranch in

16:09

Colorado. It was like a very

16:11

progressive school. We all had to

16:13

kind of clean out the stables

16:16

and cook in the morning and

16:18

then, yeah, and then, yeah, my parents

16:20

were very, I mean, not, no, not

16:22

in that way at all. No, I

16:24

have to correct that. They were, they

16:26

were, they were. My father was a

16:28

doctor, my mother was a teacher and

16:30

librarian, we, you know, it was kind

16:32

of that, but they, politically

16:34

they were, I thought they were pretty far to

16:37

the left, especially in America, so.

16:39

And who was around the dinner

16:41

table? Well, in Woodstock, it was

16:44

just my family. I have an

16:46

older brother who's a writer and

16:48

a sister who's an artist, and

16:51

so the family meals were very

16:53

geared around family stories. I came

16:56

from a kind of family, my

16:58

grandparents were immigrants who arrived from

17:00

Russia and Hungary and so a

17:03

hundred percent yeah so we yeah

17:05

and so I think that there

17:07

was a lot of talk no

17:10

talk talk talk talk talk talk

17:12

talk talk talk talk that was

17:14

a food and my grandma

17:17

was a My grandmother on

17:19

my father's side was apparently, was,

17:21

I didn't really know if I

17:24

was a really great cook and

17:26

a kind of force and she

17:28

used to come with her own

17:30

rolling pin. You know, when my

17:32

mother had her only male grandson,

17:35

my mother, she came up to visit

17:37

and my mother said, do you

17:39

want to come and see the baby?

17:41

And she said, no, let's eat first.

17:43

So there you go. food was um

17:46

but um and then I grew

17:48

up in Woodstock went to school

17:50

Colorado and then I went to

17:53

college in Vermont and then I

17:55

came then I came what did

17:57

you study I say you know

18:00

liberal arts education in America so with

18:02

a major in English. So what was

18:04

a memorable dish from your childhood? Well,

18:06

funnily enough I would say that a

18:09

memorable for me when I think about

18:11

growing up in Woodstock in the country

18:13

it would be corn on the cob

18:16

because we lived in a rural area

18:18

and there were a lot of corn

18:20

fields, a lot of corn fields and

18:22

they had markets. Right. with a farm

18:25

where it wasn't like now you had

18:27

these kind of farm to table. It

18:29

wasn't as sophisticated that. It's just simply

18:32

that you could bone by the corn.

18:34

And so I just, I still have

18:36

a memory when I bite into a

18:38

near of corn, of growing up in

18:41

the summer and having that. You know,

18:43

I also remember picking blueberries. I remember

18:45

my mother's pot rose, you know, and

18:48

I remember, cheesecake, but I think mostly

18:50

it's the memories of food. and community

18:52

and talk and family and occasions was

18:54

more than, oh, and there were a

18:57

lot of artists, when I, my parents

18:59

moved to Woodstock, it was an artist

19:01

community, and so there were a lot

19:04

of artists, and then Bob Dylan came

19:06

there, and it became, did you see

19:08

him? Yeah, yeah, I was seeing him

19:10

around, and I would say that my

19:13

friend Libby and I were, after school,

19:15

we used to go to this place

19:17

called the Bear, which is a cafe,

19:20

which is a cafe. We were doing

19:22

our homework. We had a test the

19:24

next day and Bob Dylan sent over

19:26

notes saying, would you too like to

19:29

come? I'd see the band rehearse. We're

19:31

going from here to there. And we

19:33

wrote them back in note saying, no,

19:36

we have a test tomorrow. No, I

19:38

don't know. Not not not. Biggest regret

19:40

of your life? Probably, yeah, maybe. I

19:43

don't think so. Ruthie, you, the River

19:45

Cafe is beloved, like by everybody. When

19:47

you get a whiff of the guest

19:49

list or the reservations, have you saw...

19:52

been like you know what I'm gonna

19:54

pop in they're on the list I'm

19:56

quite interested to see what they order

19:59

yeah of course you know it's nice

20:01

when you see the list it could

20:03

be a writer whose novel you read

20:05

or you know somebody who worked on

20:08

the COVID vaccine it can be any

20:10

you know that's not necessarily just a

20:12

course I get I get very excited

20:15

by I think we all get excited

20:17

when a chef comes in you know

20:19

it's all love seeing the movie stars

20:21

or the movie stars or the The

20:24

actors and the right you know the

20:26

director is film film people we know

20:28

we all love that musicians Artists, but

20:31

when you see somebody who actually works

20:33

in the same field you do who

20:35

is a cook and you Especially if

20:37

you really admire them that means something.

20:40

How are you finding doing a podcast?

20:42

Well, I love it. You know it's

20:44

um it's just is something that happened.

20:47

I always thought there's a a restaurant

20:49

in Brooklyn called Robertos. Have you ever

20:51

been there? I remember going there 20

20:53

years ago, or maybe less, about 10,

20:56

15 years ago, maybe a long time

20:58

ago, and they had a radio station.

21:00

I thought, oh, it's so cool. Maybe

21:03

you should do river cafe radio, and

21:05

just when people are coming through, they

21:07

can do it. And then, of course,

21:09

we didn't do anything. And then who

21:12

would have thought podcast would happen? And

21:14

when COVID. We were all going through

21:16

that and we closed the River Cafe

21:19

for a long time. Longer than we,

21:21

well there are no guidelines, but we

21:23

just wanted everybody to be safe, you

21:26

know, and so we closed it there,

21:28

we thought, well, what should we do?

21:30

And I thought, why don't we just

21:32

read a recipe every day? Just for

21:35

365 days a year, we'll just read

21:37

a recipe. And it was a way

21:39

of sort of getting communicated with people

21:42

who we ate in the restaurant, we

21:44

didn't see. That's like not enough for

21:46

you. You've got a segue from, you

21:48

know, recipe to a story. And then

21:51

we did three. We did, we tried

21:53

it and luck. there were three great

21:55

people. Who were the three people that

21:58

you went through your back black book?

22:00

Well they're just people that were close

22:02

to me so I just really good

22:04

friends so we asked Jake Chilenol is

22:07

a friend. Sure. And we asked I

22:09

know this is a concern of no

22:11

I love it and we asked Michael

22:14

Kane and and because he's in the

22:16

restaurant every Thursday and you know we

22:18

were all at home nobody's doing anything

22:20

and we asked Wes Anderson, who's a

22:23

really good friend of mine. And all

22:25

we asked him to do was to

22:27

read a recipe. And then we did

22:30

the interviews, but on that basis, we

22:32

sold them right away to High Heart

22:34

Media, Heart Pitman, and then the rest,

22:36

and then we just started, and we

22:39

did those three. But Wes actually did

22:41

his later, I think we did, it

22:43

was a kind of obnoxious list, because

22:46

we did those three, and then we

22:48

did. Paul McCartney and then once we

22:50

had Wes and Paul and Jake then

22:52

we did Emily Blunt was in town

22:55

so we did with her and then

22:57

David Beckham Victoria did one he's they're

22:59

hard to get everything. It was again

23:02

it was just no nobody was doing

23:04

no it's because you're loved and they

23:06

like your food. No I think they

23:09

would I always say that it's a

23:11

bit like you when you ask if

23:13

I were to say to Beckham let's

23:15

talk about football or Paul McCartney let's

23:18

talk about the Beatles but if you

23:20

say what was the last recipe for

23:22

a recipe your grandmother cook for you

23:25

before she died or they bring it

23:27

up or Beckham tells you that his

23:29

actually his father or grandpa's Jewish did

23:31

you know that yeah yeah and you

23:34

know and they had like in the

23:36

east end they had you know kind

23:38

of that wellx ideals and yields and

23:41

yields and yeah whatever so that whole

23:43

story it brings up memories or Nancy

23:45

Pelosi I was I'm a huge you

23:47

know a fan of it now friend

23:50

you know had chocolate fish never she

23:52

never ate a meal that his Italian,

23:54

first generation Italian father was mayor of

23:57

Baltimore. She never had a meal without

23:59

a tablecloth. So

24:01

things like that, you know, and

24:03

she has obsessed by in the

24:05

whole world. I'll show you a

24:07

picture of her. I said, she

24:09

came over because we're big supporters

24:12

of Biden, and I gave her

24:14

dinner, and she came over to

24:16

speak. And she's just awesome. She

24:18

was amazing. 84. She came Sunday

24:20

night. She did a thing about

24:22

her book on Monday lunchtime, did

24:24

the dinner at our house. a

24:26

Monday night and flew back Tuesday

24:29

morning to San Francisco and she's

24:31

82. She's incredible and such values

24:33

and you know we need those

24:35

people. So you came from a

24:37

Jewish family. It's interesting because having

24:39

Nancy Silverton on too, Jewish family,

24:41

both going to Italian food. Well

24:43

my parents, I have to say,

24:46

going back to my parents' politics,

24:48

although they came from and always,

24:50

you know, would identify Jews, they

24:52

were not, I grew up with

24:54

no very little from... my parents,

24:56

I had the cultural identity, but

24:58

you know, we didn't have, you

25:00

know. Did you go to the

25:03

synagogue temple? No, no, no. No,

25:05

no, no, I don't, I feel,

25:07

you know, this is another story,

25:09

but I go to, you know,

25:11

I really enjoy knowing about the

25:13

holidays or, you know, my friend

25:15

celebrating Passover, going to a Sator.

25:17

So, and you were saying about

25:20

your mom and the food, so

25:22

was there an Italian influence then.

25:24

No. It was only when I

25:26

came to England and I met

25:28

Richard's mother. Your husband. Because I

25:30

grew, oh yeah, sorry, Richard Rogers'

25:32

mother, oh, Dada Guy Ringo, which

25:34

was born, which was born in

25:36

Florence, and although his name is

25:39

Rogers. Oh, he was Italian. Oh,

25:41

yeah, 100%. His father and his

25:43

mother, the Rogers' family was his

25:45

great-great-grandfather, but who came from the

25:47

North, and then they all went

25:49

on that kind of... you know,

25:51

tour, the English, the European tour,

25:53

lived in Greece, and then subsequently

25:56

everybody was married to an Italian,

25:58

and so he was Italian. which

26:00

his mother was born in Trieste

26:03

and they met in Trieste and

26:05

then they moved to Florence and

26:07

Richard was born in Florence and

26:09

then during the war they came

26:11

to London because he'd always kept

26:13

his British passport my father-in-law and

26:16

so when they had to get

26:18

out because Mussolini they came here

26:20

and she had come from a

26:22

kind of aristocratic Italian family in

26:24

Trieste and probably had never been

26:26

in the kitchen. But when she

26:28

came here during the war that

26:31

was what she learned to do

26:33

and she learned to cook and

26:35

she was a phenomenal cook. She

26:37

taught both me and because Rose

26:39

Gray knew Richard before I knew

26:41

him, they'd been to school together.

26:44

She taught Rose, she taught Wendy

26:46

Foster, she was the kind of

26:48

Italian cook at Wimbledon and Cheem

26:50

and so a generation of... So

26:52

she really taught me, she taught

26:54

me Italian food and then Rose

26:56

went to live in Italy so

26:59

we met over to her love

27:01

for Italian food. Do you spend

27:03

time in Italy? A lot, yeah.

27:05

And you got a house there?

27:07

We have more family in Italy

27:09

in a way than we have

27:12

here. No we don't have a

27:14

house but we go to the

27:16

same house for last 25 years.

27:18

Where do you go? It's called

27:20

the Valdorcha. And it's an area

27:22

between... It's an hour and a

27:24

half north of Rome and an

27:27

hour and a half south of

27:29

Florence. So it's between Pienza, Montalcino,

27:31

and Montalcino, that area. It's an

27:33

incredible, almost a desert landscape. There's

27:35

no wine really, well very little

27:37

wine. Well, yeah, when you get

27:40

to Montalcino, you get to Montalcino,

27:42

it's great, great wine. But this

27:44

area between them. has very little

27:46

trees, very little vegetation. It has

27:48

a beautiful mountain called Mount Amiata.

27:50

So there is green, but it

27:52

has a big sky, which I

27:55

love. And so we've been going

27:57

there since 1993. Whilst

28:05

you two carry on talking I'm just

28:07

going to get out some of the

28:09

delicious puddings that we did well we

28:11

we basically said if Rufi Rogers is

28:13

coming I'm being cheeky but I'm getting

28:15

a river cafe pud I didn't know

28:17

you asked for them oh I called

28:19

up this morning it said I called

28:22

up this morning it said can we

28:24

bring some cakes oh my god I

28:26

love you thank you thank you I

28:28

said to them would you make a

28:30

polenta cake you know either make a

28:32

polenta cake because I didn't And then,

28:34

why never knew? And then, I said, well,

28:36

you know what, instead of making a polenta cake,

28:38

why don't you bring two lemon tart, two nemesis?

28:41

And I hope two almond tart, so I don't

28:43

know, we'll see what they packed up. Thank you.

28:45

Well, I'm just going to get a few on

28:47

a plate and just going to cut them off.

28:49

Yeah, absolutely. So. If you were going to go

28:52

to a desert island, not death row, because I

28:54

can't bear the thought of it. I agree with

28:56

you. When people ask me my death row recipe,

28:58

I always say, why would I eat? Why do

29:00

I want to think about this? So if you

29:03

were going to a desert island for six months

29:05

and you had to choose a meal

29:07

that you'd like to remember, what would

29:09

it be? What time of year is

29:11

it? Whenever you want to be. Well,

29:13

let's choose. Should we choose the autumn

29:15

or should we choose the summer? What

29:17

would be? What would you say? No

29:19

one has gone seasonal and thought about

29:21

how many years. How many years have

29:23

we been doing this for? Like seven

29:25

years. I love it. You do you

29:27

have to do any season. So why

29:29

would you choose autumn? Well, I think

29:31

autumn, you know, we all love. I love

29:34

every season. I do think that there

29:36

is a quality to every season.

29:38

But I think for being a

29:40

cook. The autumn is an incredible

29:42

season to have. In the summer

29:44

you have the joy of the

29:46

peaches, you have the joy of

29:48

the tomatoes. Actually, as I'm describing

29:50

summer, I'm really liking summer. You

29:52

have peas, you have asparagus. So

29:54

maybe we should talk about summer

29:56

food. But I think in the

29:58

autumn when you have... You know, the

30:00

borlati beans, you still, you have the

30:03

borlata, you have artichokes, you have pumpkins,

30:05

you have game, which I love, you

30:07

have grouse, you have partridge, you have

30:09

pheasant, you have chestnuts, you have walnuts,

30:11

you know, fresh walnuts, fresh chestnuts. And

30:14

so I think, and most of all,

30:16

in November, you have the olive oil,

30:18

you know. There's something about cooking in

30:20

those seasons when you really have. Kavolone

30:23

narrow and We do cavalonero pasta with

30:25

the cavalonero puree. That might be one

30:27

of my meals I'd love to have.

30:29

Cavalonero puree. So it's it's we know

30:31

the exciting thing about autumn is that

30:34

in November you have the olive oil

30:36

coming out the same time as a

30:38

cavalonare. Where do you got your olive

30:40

oil from? Well we we have gone

30:43

to the five estates or six estates

30:45

that we work with them with wine

30:47

in Kianti. Okay. So the Selva piano

30:49

this felsan of this cappensana. this fun

30:51

toadie and we we go to them

30:54

and because these wine producers also make

30:56

olive oil and We go there. It's

30:58

actually an interesting thing about the river

31:00

cafe is that from the very beginning

31:02

We wanted to expose the people work

31:05

for us the real Ingredients of cooking

31:07

of Italy so in the be in

31:09

the early days we would take three

31:11

or four people to Italy on a

31:14

trip. When Rose and I went to

31:16

taste the new wine and also to

31:18

choose the olive oil, we would take

31:20

two or three or four chefs. Now

31:22

we take almost 30. So what we

31:25

have to do is we take 10

31:27

or 12, maybe 12 to Tuscany, and

31:29

then the next year you get to

31:31

go to Piamante. and so those are

31:34

the two trips and the ideas that

31:36

you will have worked in the river

31:38

cafe for two years or a year

31:40

and a half and it is a

31:42

kind of it's something everybody really wants

31:45

to do it's it's very you know

31:47

cost quite a lot it's it's it's

31:49

it's intense because we work quite hard

31:51

we get it quite early in the

31:53

morning you get in a little van

31:56

and you drive to the wine estates

31:58

a capensana and then we go in

32:00

and they they talk to us all

32:02

about the wine and then you see

32:05

the process you see the olive trees

32:07

you see the olives you see the

32:09

press You see the oil, you taste

32:11

the oil, and then we go in

32:13

and they always cook us lunch. And

32:16

so it's a, and then you go

32:18

to another one. So it's quite, just

32:20

when you finish lunch, you get back

32:22

in the van and then you go

32:25

again to another estate and you do

32:27

the same. and then you have dinner.

32:29

So, and then you get up the

32:31

next morning, it takes two days, two

32:33

and a half days, but they come

32:36

back so inspired and you know, you,

32:38

when you pick up a bottle of

32:40

olive oil and you've seen it go

32:42

through the process, you treat it differently,

32:44

you realize why it is kind of

32:47

so special. It's special. So you're going

32:49

to have cavalry marinara. We can do

32:51

it with, we can do it with

32:53

a pasta, a fresh... popadelli or fresh

32:56

tagatelli. You can do it. I've made

32:58

a meal of your your almond. I'm

33:00

sorry. It's so beautiful but it's perfect.

33:02

This is an almond tart that I

33:04

learned to make when I lived in

33:07

Paris and there was a restaurant called

33:09

Benoit and it's it's we make it

33:11

all year round not with pairs but

33:13

we make it's the almond. It's like

33:16

a Frenchy pan. It is a ground

33:18

almonds. It's butter sugar ground almonds. It's

33:20

butter sugar ground almonds. and eggs and

33:22

that's kind of it and a bit

33:24

of vanilla and then we in the

33:27

season I like it most with pairs

33:29

because I think the pairs cut the

33:31

sweetness of the almond but we make

33:33

it in the summer with raspberries or

33:35

strawberries on the top we do it

33:38

with apricots sometimes but the pair is

33:40

in season right now these are delicious

33:42

I've just gone dug into the almond

33:44

cake which is the most moist delicious

33:47

beautiful thing. I do have cream but

33:49

I don't feel like... No you don't.

33:51

Okay fine I didn't want to be

33:53

blaspheous having cream. This one we always

33:55

serve with cream fresh. I've got cream

33:58

fresh as well. That is... I feel

34:00

like okay would you put a dollar

34:02

of cream fresh on the side? Only

34:04

if you want to. I'm not going

34:07

to have nemesis but I'll try this.

34:09

So what do you have a starter

34:11

or are you starting with the pasta

34:13

or are you starting with the pasta?

34:15

I might just do a lot of

34:18

vegetables. I love following a pasta. When

34:20

I have people over very often, I'll

34:22

start with a pasta. Then have, well

34:24

sometimes I do languishine, which I'd love

34:27

languishine. How do you like to cook

34:29

them? I'm not keen sometimes on the

34:31

kind of first course, main course, and

34:33

dessert things. So I like starting with

34:35

a pasta and then bringing to the

34:38

table copious amounts of... roasted pumpkin, fresh,

34:40

you know, cannellini beans, and always a

34:42

green-braised spinach or braised, but I live...

34:44

Do you get fresh cannellini beans? Do

34:46

you buy them? Naturist, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

34:49

And Boilati. So if it was in

34:51

the autumn, we'd have a cavaloneiro pasta,

34:53

and then because there are really, we'd

34:55

have Langustine, which would be split, we

34:58

split them. and then we roast them

35:00

so you put a bit of a

35:02

regular and dry chili on them and

35:04

you put them in the oven they

35:06

come out and they're just very clean.

35:09

How long do you roast them for?

35:11

Well not very long about 10 minutes

35:13

you know in a hot oven and

35:15

then you'd have those on the table

35:18

and then we'd have probably I'd like

35:20

to have vegetables cooked in different ways

35:22

so I'd probably roast. pumpkin or via

35:24

lettuce squash and then we would have,

35:26

there are really nice winter tomatoes you

35:29

can get from Sicily and we have

35:31

those very hard tomatoes that you only

35:33

get in the winter because we don't

35:35

do tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes in except in

35:37

the summer. But these are really... interesting

35:40

and then we might have um silk

35:42

you know silk-cooked fennel which is in

35:44

season right now and then olive oil

35:46

maybe just do spinach so with the

35:49

langustine you would just have these vegetables

35:51

and then for dessert my favorite dessert

35:53

would definitely be ice cream. I love

35:55

ice cream I just love to end

35:57

a meal with ice cream and actually

36:00

my favorite ice cream is probably pistachio

36:02

or vanilla. Pistachio is the best. No,

36:04

I don't do things like that. I

36:06

mean, I think it's probably really good,

36:09

but very, well, I don't know, recently

36:11

a chef, everyone, I did say, well,

36:13

maybe it was in New York, and

36:15

they said, try this Ruthie, it was

36:17

a vanilla ice cream with olive oil,

36:20

but I'm a bit old school, so

36:22

I don't do that. Stashio ice cream,

36:24

um, vanilla ice cream, probably the caramou.

36:26

We do a very dark caramel as

36:28

well, but I love ending a meal

36:31

with ice cream with ice cream with

36:33

ice cream with ice cream with ice

36:35

cream with ice cream with ice cream,

36:37

more than ice cream, more than ice

36:40

cream, every day. Probably, yeah. I love

36:42

it too. And they don't even ask

36:44

me when I go as, you know,

36:46

to the river cafe. They just bring

36:48

you in. You just need a little,

36:51

don't you? Just a tiny bit, a

36:53

little, tiny bit, that's great. What are

36:55

you doing? Friend of mine, son. Actually,

36:57

she won't mind if I meant, but

37:00

you know, Greta Gerweik, who directed, boy,

37:02

which is a really good friend of

37:04

mine, and Noah, have a son, no

37:06

from back, have a, have a, a,

37:08

a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

37:11

a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

37:13

a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

37:15

a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

37:17

a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

37:20

a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

37:22

a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

37:24

a, I saw what we could do

37:26

about that. What's my screen? So, um,

37:28

yeah. Well, with the ice cream or

37:31

with the whole meal? Oh, yeah. Yeah,

37:33

we didn't. What do you start with?

37:35

You're like a peritef? I love an

37:37

appartive, yeah. For me, I was saying

37:39

that I would have probably five years

37:42

ago said I'd love a nagroni, I'd

37:44

love a dry martini, I love a

37:46

cosmphalton, but I really, since I lived,

37:48

I had to live in Mexico, I

37:51

didn't have to, but I did have

37:53

to because my husband had an accident

37:55

there, and so I lived in Mexico

37:57

City for four months. I was just

37:59

blown away by tequila. You know, and

38:02

I had tequila. I don't, you really,

38:04

the great thing about tequila in Mexico

38:06

is that you don't, you drink it

38:08

with the meal. You know, and so

38:11

you don't have a tequila and then

38:13

go on to wine. To drink it

38:15

meat. And so, yeah, so you just

38:17

get a little sharp of tequila. And

38:19

I can drink tequila through, I. even

38:22

an Italian meal. I just really, it

38:24

doesn't go down well with my wine

38:26

department, the River Cafe, so I don't,

38:28

but I really love starting a meal

38:30

with just a, what with ice just

38:33

on ice? No, I just have a

38:35

shot. I used to say, I used

38:37

to say margarita, I guess in the

38:39

summer I'd have margarita, but I just

38:42

loved to kill. Are you friends with

38:44

Alice and Roman? No, I don't know

38:46

her. Do you know her. She was

38:48

going to go to go to go

38:50

to go to your restaurant. Don't remember.

38:53

She's going to go to a restaurant.

38:55

I think she's really good. Yeah, but

38:57

she says, and I think it's great,

38:59

if you have a dinner party, make

39:02

a big jug of margaritas and give

39:04

people margaritas. And I tried it once.

39:06

Everyone would have cared what I've made

39:08

for dinner. They loved every minute. They

39:10

were happy. They enjoyed life. The dinner

39:13

was great. Kathleen Thailand. You know, she

39:15

was great. a woman and a writer

39:17

and her husband was a playwright and

39:19

critic, Ken Tyne, and died. And I

39:21

said that I would do the party

39:24

after the funeral at our house. And

39:26

Joan Buck, who's then the editor of

39:28

French Folk and other friends, she had

39:30

a lot of really great friends. And

39:33

she said, well, what are you going

39:35

to have, Ruthie? And I said, well,

39:37

we'll have, you know, red wine, white

39:39

wine, champagne, whatever. And she looked at

39:41

me, she said, Ruthie, I'm going to

39:44

tell you, I'm going to tell you.

39:46

Never give a party without margaritas. Whether

39:48

it's a funeral, a wedding, a birthday,

39:50

a thing. And so since 1992, I've

39:53

never given a party without margaritas. So

39:55

they go. I love that. I like

39:57

that kind of advice, don't you? love

39:59

that and can I ask you when

40:01

you married your late husband what what

40:04

was on the menu oh for our

40:06

wedding yeah well we were married in

40:08

my parents later house in Long Island

40:10

so they're on the water on the

40:12

Long Island sound and we went it

40:15

was like one of those old you

40:17

know 1940 movies where they get in

40:19

the car and they go to the

40:21

the justice of the peace in their

40:24

house. And you know, we sort of like,

40:26

we weren't a lopy, but with my parents,

40:28

it's very small, my sister and brother

40:30

and a few friends, and we went

40:32

into this kind of little one-story little

40:34

house and the man came out and

40:36

he and his wife married us around their

40:39

fireplace. It was very sweet. It was really

40:41

sweet. And then we went back home and

40:43

we had lobsters, you know, because where... You

40:45

know, the Long Island Sound and the Atlantic

40:47

Ocean has very good odds. How would you

40:50

cook them? Just grill them. Boil them. Boil

40:52

them. Boil them. Boil them. Boil them. What

40:54

was it? And then, what do we have?

40:56

We had just a lot of greens. We

40:59

had oysters to start with. No, we didn't

41:01

have oysters. We had clams. And it was

41:03

in. We got married in November, so I

41:05

think we probably had, I can't really remember

41:08

the Greens, but we probably had, you

41:10

know, spinach. And lobsters are so,

41:12

they're so big there, that, you

41:14

know, you really get this huge

41:16

lobster doing here in America. And

41:18

then Philip Johnson, who's architect, who

41:21

taught, it was head of the

41:23

Yale School of Architecture, and built,

41:25

you know, the Ms. Vanderaud, the

41:27

Seagram Building and the Museum, Modern

41:29

Art. Here's a great. a kind

41:31

of father of architecture, would always

41:34

take us to a restaurant called

41:36

The Four Seasons in the Seagram

41:38

Building. Not the hotel, but it's

41:40

called The Four Seasons. And it

41:42

was the kind of those chic place

41:45

you could go to in New York.

41:47

And so he sent us a chocolate

41:49

cake from the Four Seasons for

41:51

dessert, which was really amazing. And

41:53

it was beautiful. It was nice.

41:56

It was in 1973. So quite

41:58

a long time ago. to have

42:00

your own story. And listen to your

42:02

stories, you are such a good storyteller.

42:04

And this, you may have already answered

42:06

this with the corner and the cob,

42:09

but is there a nostalgic taste that

42:11

can transport you back somewhere? Well I

42:13

would say that for Italy and for

42:15

Florence, I think when I have the

42:17

new olive oil and I have it

42:19

on a piece of briscetta and it's

42:21

the best piece of bread with grilled

42:23

the right, you know, you'd have... you

42:25

know, sea salt on it, mold and

42:28

salt on it. Oh, and then the

42:30

new oil. I'm transported to the first

42:32

time I had it, which was with

42:34

Richard, when we arrived. The first time

42:36

I went to Italy with him, and

42:38

we went to this little place in

42:40

Florence, and we were served then. I

42:42

kept saying, there's something else on this,

42:45

you know, because the olive oil was

42:47

so peb. and it was just was

42:49

so, and it was only three ingredients.

42:51

It was just the bread, the olive

42:53

oil, and a bit of a hint

42:55

of garlic. So I think when I

42:57

ever ate that, I'm transported to that

42:59

moment with Richard. You've met the most

43:01

amazing people through the river caffeine, probably

43:04

through riches as well. Who would you

43:06

have at a dinner party and live

43:08

or dead? No. and you could have

43:10

your best dinner party. I'd have a

43:12

dinner with Richard. Yeah, yeah. Two of

43:14

us. I'd be my dinner party. Somebody

43:16

said to me the other day that

43:18

he met somebody and she was living

43:20

in Hong Kong. He said, so Ruthie,

43:23

it's kind of a long-distance relationship. And

43:25

I said, that's what I have. Oh,

43:27

he's still there. Yeah, he's around. We

43:29

just, longed his house. How long has

43:31

it since he passed? Two years, yeah.

43:33

We're good, we're good. I've had an

43:35

amazing family, 13 grandchildren, and I have

43:37

my family, and I have my friends,

43:40

and I have the River Cafe, and

43:42

I have you, and I have Sophia,

43:44

and you, we're all, it's a life,

43:46

we're good. Thank you so much for

43:48

coming. Good luck with the new album

43:50

series. You know, you're so calming, we've

43:52

not even argued. I know. You've actually

43:54

been like conflict resolution. Yeah. It's like,

43:56

we're all peaceful. It's beautiful to be

43:59

here. It's what it really was. Thank

44:01

you for asking me. Oh my God,

44:03

I'm such a fan. I can't wait

44:05

to let you know next time I'm

44:07

in the cafe and eat a bowl

44:09

of ice cream with you. I'd love

44:11

to come. Yeah, just let me know

44:13

one. Yeah, I'd love to. Don't come

44:15

every day. A

44:33

ledge. Absolutely a ledge. She is

44:35

fabulous. She is generous. She is

44:37

cool, warm, just a very good

44:40

storyteller. There's so much about food,

44:42

but all the people she's met

44:44

have crossed that that threshold at

44:46

River Cafe. It's fantastic. She was

44:49

a treasure chest of... food information

44:51

and stories. I loved hearing her

44:53

stories. I could have had her

44:55

for, well, a full season to

44:57

be honest. Yeah, she has a

45:00

lovely voice. Oh, heaven. Yeah, really

45:02

nice voice. And so warm gave

45:04

me lots of cuddles. Yeah, I

45:06

just loved her. A lovely, lovely,

45:09

beautiful Sophia, who she came with,

45:11

who's a fan. Yeah. And I

45:13

got to eat chocolate nemesis on

45:15

a Monday afternoon, so that is

45:18

great news for me. guess because

45:20

she knows everyone. She loved my

45:22

Marlbea chicken. I know it was

45:24

delicious today. It was very good

45:26

darling. It was really really good.

45:29

You know what? Never underestimate the

45:31

power of the Marlbea. And then

45:33

thanks to Ruthie for bringing delicious

45:35

delicious puds and shout out to

45:38

River Cafe and the gorgeous chefs

45:40

that will be listening and that

45:42

I can't remember your names and

45:44

I feel very bad about that.

45:47

That's really shit of me. I

45:49

apologize but you're gorgeous and I'll

45:51

see you soon and then you

45:53

can spit in my food because

45:55

I forgot your name. All right

45:58

we'll see you next week. A-cast

46:19

powers the world's best podcast. Here's

46:21

the show that we recommend. Hey

46:23

everybody, I'm Naomi Ak Paragon. And

46:25

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46:27

and a real-life couple of comedians.

46:30

And we're the hosts of the

46:32

podcast, Couples Therapy. We're the only

46:34

comedy relationship podcast ever. Yeah, I

46:36

said it. And we're so good,

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we've been written up in both

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the New York Times, and we made

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